As a new user I have enjoyed this thread a great deal because I got a
glimpse at Vi editor thru it. I'm a Winflop user and hate it..which is why
I am slowly moving into Linux, but I have an advantage. My guru is a
Linuxgod/power user/debugger who is holding my hand. I've gotten over my
love for GUI - except to play cards - and actually like command line. It
beats winflop hands down.
The biggest problem winflop users encounter is the differences between the
two operating systems. It's impossible not to look for comparisons if only
for a reference point. MC menu "looks" a lot like it's DOS counterpart
because of the color and form, but that's where the comparison ends. The
two are as much alike as a sloop and cow. And the Linux learning curve is
horrendous. Man pages are written in Greek - or should I say Geek?
Mandrake is bleeding edge technology for sure, but it's my feeling that if
they wish to court the desktop set they are going to have to do more than
include KDE and their best wishes. A broken KDE isn't any better than
winflop, and we need some type of simple text editor that acts like a
typewriter so we can send mom those long, rambling letters and create small
HTML pages to amuse her.
I'd like to learn to use Gimp. It locks up every time I try to scroll the
font list. Why? I was told it is because the fonts are missing. Great. How
am I supposed to learn to recognize fonts if I can't see them? I don't
have a clue what avantgard or babledable looks like, or the sizes that can
be displayed, and I haven't yet figured out why the missing fonts are
listed in the first place. I'd rather see five fonts that are included than
lock up on 20 that are not.
Mandrake is in it's infancy in terms of age, but it's going places fast,
and it's gaining ground every day. The developers do a great job and they
work hard to put out a good product. Yes, some improvements and changes
can be made and they are being made, but I think it's going to take more
than a few newbies to coax them into the changes we would love to
see--especially when we trash their product on this list.
I used Pico a few times. It isn't my editor of choice but it will do until
something better - that I can use - comes along. I use a small, free
(750k) no-frills editor from Norway that is dual function. I can write a
letter, or click an icon, and write html code. If I can use it under Wine
it will solve my basic writing problems.
If we want the developers to help us like they did a year ago when Denis,
Steve, Civileme, Axalon, Jean-Michael, Ramon, Dave, Brian, and others like
them, were watching the list and responding then we have to change our
collective attitudes. The power users and guru's are lurking in the shadows
watching this list but they are silent as are many of the sys admins and
networking guru's who used to be very active.
The temper tantrums, cursing, rudeness and trashing the best Linux product
available will not get custom scripts or hand holding when we need it the
most. Yeh, they used to do that too and on a daily basis.
Pj
At 02:16 AM 8/16/00 -0700, you wrote:
>on 8/15/00 8:50 PM, Tony McGee wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Gavin Clark pushed some tiny letters in this order:
>>> I'm not saying get rid of it at all, just make something else the default.
>>> it would be an easy thing to have vi come up as a choice for experts
during
>>> the install.
>>
>> An installation choice has been the best idea to come out of this
thread. This
>> is Mandrake after all, IMHO the distribution most suited to the widest
range
>> of experience from newbies right up to experts.
>
>
>How do we get this into 7.2?
>
>>> now there's an idea. linux should have the command #tutorial nnn, like
man,
>>> but it pops up a clearly written dummy's guide with lots of examples.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think there's a tutorial command
>
>Then I hereby propose it. I agree that there is a lot of documentation and
>help out there but you really have to hunt for it. It is scattered all over
>the place, most of it is on line so you need the network connection to be
>running. There is a need for clear and concise explanations and examples
>right at your finger tips. A public domain tutorial along the lines of a
>dummies book for each command, available from the command line, would be an
>immense help. The sheer number of UNIX books out there testify to the short
>comings of man pages, and the how-tos can't help if you're not sure what
>you're looking for.
>
>
>> The problem isn't with the lack of documentation out there, in my
experience
>> it's that nobody bothers to read it before running to the nearest mailing
>> list/newsgroup/guru/whatever.
>
>I'll put my New Guy hat on and tell you why. ;-)
>
>That's because there's nothing telling the new guy where to find that
>documentation. There should be a big button on the desktop that say 'click
>me for help' which pops up info on all the help and docs that are installed
>on the machine, and tells you about man pages and how to get them. It should
>mention little tricks like #command --help. Netscape ought to come with a
>list of bookmarks to inline docs of all sorts (I'd gladly give up those BS
>shopping links).
>
>OK, I know there IS a help link there but both Win and the Mac pop up a big
>window right in your face the first time you start that says "hey new guy,
>read this!" Sure, that will annoy a power user but he can make it go away
>and the new guy needs it.
>
>I've already gone through my learning curve so it's too late for me but as
>Linux get adopted more and more widely those using it will be less and less
>technically inclined, "RTFM" as an answer won't cut it - they won't even
>know there is one.
>
>If you're going to lead the masses out of the darkness then you are going to
>have to hold their hand. A truly powerful system should do just that.
>
>All I'm asking for is that this thing be perfect, that shouldn't be so hard
>considering that half the world is working on it. ;-)
>
>Gavin
>
>
>
>
>
