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I have to agree with Matt completely.
While IMail is a stable product (if you install it on the right machine with the
right hardware) the feature set is behind the times, the mailing list features
have never been upgraded yet it has been a wishlist for most admins here for
several years, and quite frankly I spent $5000 on a specific machine so I could
meet the needs of IMail's hardware issues, and yet I have the SMTP
problem. What have I been told to do by both IPSwitch and list
people? Install on another machine. I have two issues with that
suggestion. One, I ordered that box based on the archives and list
recommendations for the best performance and least issue with IMail (didn't
do any good). Two, maybe you all have that kind of money and hardware
laying around but I do not, and based on the complaints about $$ earlier in this
situation, I doubt you do either. I am installing IMail on a far inferior
box today to see if I can solve the SMTP crashing issue. If it does I will
remain with IMail for as long as it takes to evaluate other products, and
install one on the mailserver I spent my money on. Somehow I bet it will
work well too.
For those interested... here is the machine
specs of what has the SMTP issue:
Dell PowerEdge 2400 (converted for rack
mount)
Dual PIII 733s
1 GB RAM
2 x 9 GB SCSI Drives - RAID 1 (System and
IMail)
2 x 18 GB SCSI Drives - RAID 1 (Spool and
Logs)
2 x 18 GB SCSI Drives - RAID 1
(Mailboxes)
3Com NICs - no Intels
In any case, I bought this system back when it was
top of the line, and IMail was on version 5 I think. It worked great up
until we went to 7.xx, which is when we started with the SMTP crashing
issues.
That is my 2 cents to the discussion, $695 for an
SA ??? HAHAHA I laugh at that and start my search for a new
product.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:16
AM
Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail/ICS
Update
They massively increased prices just a couple of years ago and
if anything, support has gotten worse and enhancements have slowed. They
have also taken to releasing new major versions that are not markedly
different from previous ones as a way to extract more money from their
customers, a common practice in the industry, however the forced bundling of
ICS really pushed this beyond the scope of accepted practice.
IMO, no
one should be welcoming a 40% increase in their service agreement price for
the same old piece of software. I'm not about to pay $695 to a company
that has only come out with two minor version updates in 6 months, and going
back for over a year, the only enhancement of note was the switch to
OpenLDAP. I contacted support once regarding a question about how
something should work, and they advised me improperly and recorded a trouble
ticket classifying my installation as being "defective", but the release notes
to 8.13 show that my system was working properly and they only now changed how
it works. They never followed up on my "defective" system. In
other words, their support cost me my own time. Please note that I have
no qualms about who was helping me, they were just improperly advised, and my
ticket was blackholed when they couldn't offer resolution.
Another huge
part of the problem with Ipswitch not making money from their subscriptions is
that they make them available to resellers at dramatic discounts. I
don't see why I need to be paying a $200 to $300 profit for a retail priced
service agreement through a thrid-party when all they do is list inventory
from Tech Data. Everyone but the reseller loses in this situation.
Ipswitch ends up making much less from the subscription since people go
elsewhere to purchase below-retail copies, and as a result they charge more to
their customers for service agreements. I can understand selling
software through third-parties, but selling subscriptions is best done
directly, and for the few that need to go through a place like Tech Data, they
should just simply charge much closer to retail. Their current construct
is impacting their business and the cost to the customer. It is stupid
and there are no signs that things so obvious are being addressed.
Ipswitch would make more money by discounting their service agreements and
only selling them directly from their own site.
Outside of the value
and cost of the actual service agreement, my bottom line is still the
same. Rarely does a company come along that tries to screw me in such a
way. MCI and AT&T are the only two companies that have done anything
worse to me, curiously both by way of long-distance overcharges and a refusal
to correct their issues. I've learned to never do business with such
companies, and I've also learned to speak up because if some company screws
me, I am going to make sure that others know about it so that hopefully others
will be saved from having to go through the same. MCI lost a class
action suit for $70 million for exactly what they did to me and then it was
uncovered that their overcharges were a part of their falsifying of earnings
results. AT&T screwed me three times, correcting it twice after much
needless work on my part and being dumped after doing it a third time. I
no longer give such an opportunity to a company to screw me repeatedly when I
am allowed a choice. Ipswitch already increased prices dramatically two
years ago, and now they are doing it again as a concession.
Unfortunately if everyone here takes a 40% increase as a concession, Ipswitch
will be better off as a result of taking advantage of their customers. I
do fear that this will work out to their benefit. I hope it does not for
the good of consumers, businesses or
individuals.
Matt
Ted Galerneau wrote:
I can relate 100% to where you are with this Matt, but perhaps things may
change or have already changed at Ipswitch. At least they know that the
masses will not bend over in any direction for them. I suppose %40 increase
for what we already had that wasn't perfect is somewhat of a bend over, but
there could be a positive side. Perhaps they will use this increased revenue
to improve their support and development rather than just treat it as extra.
I am confident that if we the masses are not seeing that, it's never too
late to still move on.
I am not trying to talk anyone into anything at this point, so please excuse
me if I am seem out of line. I just know that this whole things as caused us
all a little more stress at a time when nobody really needs it right before
the holidays! Whatever you decide, good luck and if you've made a concrete
decision on whatever new email server software you intend to purchase, I
would be curious to know offline what you selected just for my own future
reference. Any other signs of instability at all I will be looking myself!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail/ICS Update
I won't be renewing my service agreement, and I won't be purchasing any
more copies of IMail nor any other product from Ipswitch. Here's why:
1) Despite the stated recognition of a mistake, it is still clear that
full recognition of that mistake escapes the executives of this
company. An increase in price of the service agreement in order to
cover the expense of providing support which was previously stated as
being too costly is just simply a way for Ipswitch to pass on their poor
management to their customers instead of taking on internal reform to
make the company more efficient. There is for instance no reason why a
human needs to respond to a request to download an upgrade from the
Web. There has also been a trend of breaking things as you fix them,
and then responding very slowly with patches. In the last 6 months,
there have only been 3 minor version releases, and over 2 months since
the last release which broke obvious parts of Web mail and
interpretability with Mail-to-Fax.
2) There is a total lack of recognition of what is going on in the rest
of the industry for simple mail server products. The general trend is
for products to become less expensive and offer more, instead IMail is
becoming more expensive and falling behind. Also, companies have been
offering a separation of support agreements and upgrade protection in
order to not put the burden of support costs on those that don't need
it. For the cost of the old service agreement price on the Unlimited
version of IMail, I could have purchased any number of more functional
mail servers, but now that service agreement has increased by over 40%.
3) Any company that is so short-sighted as to initially overlook the
needs of their primary customers, and who has not fired those
responsible for such actions, cannot be trusted. Ipswitch broke their
agreement with me to provide upgrades, which in itself brought
ill-advised liability upon the software company that I depend on. Now
that some form of resolution has been offered, the cost increase of over
40% when paired with nothing more than a simple recognition of a
mistake, but no other obvious action. In other words, the same people
are still calling the shots so far as I know, the resolution was merely
a matter of asking me which way I wanted to bend over, and there is
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING offered that gives me an ounce of confidence that
this will not happen again.
My bottom line is that I don't let companies (people) profit from my
business when they try to take advantage of me and I have a choice. The
only way that I would have stayed was if there was a reorganization at
the upper levels of management where corrective action was taken to
replace the people that are ruining Ipswitch's business. So far as I
can tell, that has not happened.
Matt
Roger C. Greene wrote:
Dear IMail Customers,
The messaging market has changed since we introduced IMail almost 10 years
ago. Back then, SMTP and POP3 were most of what was needed in a product.
Today, there is increasing demand for more comprehensive collaboration
solutions and the stand-alone messaging market is shrinking. That is why
we
introduced Ipswitch Collaboration Suite as our messaging solution for the
future.
In introducing ICS, though, we did not fully assess the impact on you, our
customers. Many of you have written or called to tell us about that
impact. We have listened to what you had to say and decided on the
following actions:
1. IMail Server customers may continue to purchase Service Agreements
without upgrading to ICS. Since it is at the core of ICS, you can be
assured that we will continue to enhance and support IMail Server. As of
December 1, Service Agreement prices will increase to $695 (from $495) for
IMail Professional and to $375 (from $245) for IMail Small Business.
Note that anti-virus subscriptions will only be sold as part of ICS. For
those who have AV, we believe the ICS value proposition is compelling.
As always, we strongly encourage all IMail users to keep current with new
IMail releases. We do not believe that per-support-incident charges are in
the best interests of the majority of our users, and will not adopt them at
this time (but will continue to listen to your feedback).
2. Ipswitch Instant Messaging customers may also continue to purchase
Service Agreements. As of December 1, the Service Agreement price will
increase to $195 (from $99).
3. The December 31 deadline for cross-grade pricing to ICS has been
eliminated, so you have more time to plan. You may now make the move to
ICS
on your own schedule.
I am sure that many of you will have questions about your particular
circumstances, and I encourage you to talk to your Ipswitch or reseller
salesperson about the best path forward for you. I want to especially
thank
those of you who took the time to call us and explain your situations in
detail. We are pleased that we ended up opening a more direct channel of
communications with all of you who wrote or called. Last week Bill Pollack
sent an e-mail with management names and phone numbers; please always feel
free to call us.
Sincerely,
Roger Greene
President
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