--
Alexpux
Отправлено с помощью Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
воскресенье, 7 июля 2013 г. в 16:31, Adrien Nader написал:
> Hi,
>
> Sorry for answering that late, I was away a bit and could catch up
> properly only now.
>
> This email is unfortunately a bit long, sorry for that too.
>
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013, Ruben Van Boxem wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I have come to the conclusion that my MinGW-w64 builds bring too little to
> > the table for me to continue maintaining them.
> >
> > I strongly encourage you to use the plethora of toolchains in a multitude
> > of configurations available at mingw-builds. Comparing download numbers
> > they have a much higher visibility, and e.g. their adoption by the Qt
> > Project speaks of their quality. They have succeeded in doing what I missed
> > when I decided to start building GCC, so my effort spent in doing that is
> > now wasted.
> >
> > I may dabble into getting Clang 3.3 to work on Windows, perhaps even with
> > libc++, but I am not promising anything.
> >
> > I'll still linger around here though, don't worry.
>
> This is sad to read.
> As a packager I can only understand, in particular when you say that you
> will probably continue but not try to be as up-to-date as you've been so
> far, which you've done remarkably well.
>
> I believe no such work is ever "wasted work". Remember that a few years
> ago, GCC for Windows meant mingw.org and lots of issues, starting with
> building your own toolchain. The current ease of build proves how much
> work on this has been done by everyone: building, helping, testing,
> fixing and so on.
>
>
> If I've understood correctly, you're basing your decision partly on the
> download stats from SF.net and the use of the mingw-builds toolchains by
> the Qt project.
>
> Aaron Seigo had mentionned that the toolchain for the Qt project SDK had
> to use Dwarf2 EH. He also had a whole liste of *hard* requirements (like
> having multilib [ which I don't understand since QtCreator would hide it
> anyway ]). This is a case where having more choice changes a lot of
> things: most of us don't build multilib toolchains with dwarf2 eh.
> This choice doesn't change anything to the quality of the toolchains and
> of the work behind them.
>
>
Mingw-builds doesn't build multilib Dwarf toolchains. We build only Sjlj
toolchains as multilib. And now Qt use our nomultilib toolchains.
> As for the download stats, I've been trying to understand them for quite
> some time now without much luck.
> I was trying to see which impact the new download page would have. I
> haven't been able to see a difference.
>
> Mingw-builds has around 600 downloads per day, half of it seems to be
> metadata for the installer. I guess that the installer downloads the
> metadata file which then tells it which downloads are available (I might
> be completely wrong).
> This means that there are 300 new toolchain installations everyday.
> Close to 10k each month and that's around 30k for three month, until the
> next minor version comes out. In turn, this means there are at least 30k
> people installing toolchains themselves. I find this hard to believe:
> people are too lazy for that.
>
>
> We don't have much data for the downloads. When do they happen during
> the day, where from in the world, by which User Agent, ... ?
>
> For yypkg, I have a separate hosting and a webalizer on it. I lack
> details but I have some more information than what we get from sf.net.
>
> For the first 6 days of July, I got around 900 hits from a wget running
> on "mingw32", i.e. the download client in yypkg and definitely not
> something else (bots, indexers, pidgins, ...). Due to the way yypkg
> works, this amounts to 2 to 3 downloads per day (I haven't advertized
> anything recently).
> Again, if we sum that over a few weeks, it's hundreds of users.
> I haven't heard *anything* from them. All I know is that they exist. It
> feels like looking for the Higgs Boson or black matter.
>
>
> You usually don't hear about users and I'm under the impression that for
> packagers it's even worse. However there are users; it might be
> difficult to understand who they are, where they are and how they use
> the binaries but they definitely exist.
>
> I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but I know this has been an open
> question for a long time now and currently we're probably missing 99% of
> the answer.
>
>
> PS: adding something to the download page is available to any packager
> that provides the same amount of information as the other toolchains
> (copy-paste, replace with your own values); I don't think the page is
> currently crowded. I'll be spending some time on it again soon.
>
> --
> Adrien Nader
>
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>
Regards,
Alexey.
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