On Wed, Jul 10, 2013, Martin Mitáš wrote: > > On 10.7.2013 8:58, Koehne Kai wrote: > > > > > While the question about what current users are using is already hard to > > answer, there's IMO a bigger one: What _potential_ users are there that > > aren't already using mingw-w64 :) I started looking into mingw-w64 maybe a > > year ago, only to find out that > > - there's no 'official' installer/ toolchain > > - there are a whole bunch of 'personal' builds & mingw-w64 derived > > projects > > - different projects provide a myriad of different gcc versions x > > architecture x exception handling mechanism x threading library > > combinations (and again, little hints on what is the 'recommended' > > configuration for most users). > > > > (Disclaimer: Written not in an attempt to put you down, but in a hope > such feedback is valuable for you.) > > A bit off-topic but I can sign that too. I was using mingw for a long > time and when I felt the need to also build my projects for x64, it > took me about _two_long_years_ until I finally switched from mingw > (i.e., I was already quite close and the transition should be sooo > easy), and when I finally did, it was only for x64 builds for another > months. The reason for the long consideration was I was waiting for some > "official" build/toolchain, thinking at that time you yourself (as a > mingw-w64 team) do not consider it ready for general use until you have > one... > > It is simply the matter of fact that newcomer does not know where to > click to get basic info what he should download to get "something > standard" when "he has no special requirements". Instead you place him > in front of too many (potentially difficult) questions like "What is > that exception type thing and what is the right for me?" or "What the > hell is cross-compiling?" and (arguably worse) "Which developer of this > project makes the best work in making the package?" or (probably the > worst) "They cannot agree with one another so each of them need their > own build? How can they work as a team?" > > I do not say that not offering any option is the right way. But there > should be something what is "default". And the "default" should be > offered as that. It should be much more visible, and available in a > click or two from the homepage. And last but not least, the "default" > should not be tagged as a personal build. You should minimize the number > of question he needs to answer to get "just some compiler to build my > program with". > > To summarize, IMO, mingw-w64, although technically as good as it is, > emits bad signals to newcomers. Unfortunately, it has always been > repelling for new users and, I believe, it is also the reason why > mingw-builds (although also not ideal for sure) succeeded so easily. It > simply filled the gap in the demand, which you never attempted to fill.
I believe everyone will concur. I find it quite funny that with mingw-w64 being much more open than mingw.org, there are more contributions from a more active community and that, in turn, this causes confusion. Years ago there were basically no toolchains. I think there were automated builds but they weren't always available. After discussions on IRC and mentions of my yypkg project, I was asked to provide such official builds and package management. Take into account the fact I was a student in a school system that leaves little free time, that the task was big (get the package manager working well everywhere, build the build infrastructure, build the toolchains, build all the packages with all their quirks...). Fast-forward today, yypkg is stable, works, there are quite a lot of packages, and there are many more people who provide toolchains. So, how can one of them be "official"? My work was supposed to be but that was years ago and I cannot suddenly appear and hide the other builds with mine. I built the current download page with that diversity in mind, trying to give a faire share of visibility to every project. In any case we now have the question: what would be official or even advised? -- Adrien Nader ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ Mingw-w64-public mailing list Mingw-w64-public@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mingw-w64-public
