Genocide is also done/committed for the "Noblest" of "reasons".
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_suicide > Your claim of suicide as "weakness" is what I was reacting to. There > have been some who thought of "suicide" as the only "heroic" option to > a situation they were facing.... the Japanese, seppuku is not the only > example of this, I am particularly fond of some of Vittorio Alfieri's > tragedies in this vein. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfieri > But I found the topic of suicide most convincingly portryed by another > Italian poet/playright, Torquato Tasso, in his play titled Aminta. > Tasso, own biographical history and experience with "depression" or > even Leopardi... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torquato_Tasso > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopardi > And, of course, there's the treatment given to the topic by Albert > Camus... or even Kafka. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Camus > I've thought about this topic, in my literature-based sort of way..... > all of which leads me to appreciate your own distinction about the > "actual" suffering of the poor or abused (I've experienced some of > that myself) as compared to the sometimes relatively minor cause for > suffering in others who may be more advantaged, but still.... weakness > is NOT the only explanation for suicide, nor is it always a question > of reaction to abuse..... > I guess I'm saying that (your "weakness") one answer does not account > for all cases. > > On Oct 5, 1:16 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > nominal9, > > > > Boy do you have me wrong. I spent my entire career working with the > abused, > > neglected, the truly oppressed and weak. To put forth a claim by/for an > > educated member of a first world country that allows himself to be > "Bullied" > > by images or admissions of HIS OWN ACTS performed out of free will is > > absolutely ludicrous and lessens the plight of the people that truly > suffer > > at the hands of others because there is/are no other choice/choices. > > > > Get a grip on that which is and is not truly life threatening.... do not > > include those items that are simply life changing then get back to me. > > > > Committing suicide because one is embarrassed, ashamed or feels worthless > > simply because of anothers negative attitude is ridiculous. Was he gay > > because he was depressed or was he depressed because he was gay ?? NO, he > > was depressed because he was mentally weak and allowed the mere opinions > of > > others to affect him.... > > > > This is NOT a "GAY" issue... it is one of basic perceptions of ones self > and > > others. It happens to EVERYONE regardless of their walk in life. > > > > Men and women have committed suicide because of the loss of money, the > loss > > of a lover/spouse, a friend, shit there have even been suicides because > of > > hair loss. > > > > One common link.... all could be said to be depressed.... all could be > said > > to have a "cure"... never allow someone to lose a lover, force them to > stay; > > ban hair loss, but then these things are simple things that are in all > walks > > of life and continue to defy logic as to how someone could be so STUPID > to > > commit suicide over such triviality... well it was obviously NOT trivial > to > > THEM. > > > > This is also true of Gays that commit suicide because they are gay and > can't > > take the pressures. It is irrational to give it credence on a societal > > level. It is strictly a PERSONAL choice. If not, all bald men, all people > > that went broke and lost a fortune or those that lost a lover or those > that > > are gay would have been dead yesterday. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:28 AM, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Mark.... this "weakness" claim of yours is a"fiction".... doesn't > > > comport with human experience. Take the example of "growing up"... > > > from birth to relative maturity. At what point does a baby or a child > > > lose his/her emotional "weakness"....? Is a baby who is physically or > > > mentally abused by "grown-ups" (depraved ones, let's say).... > > > emotionally weak... for crying or trying to escape? If not a "baby" > > > then at what point in an abusive continuum does a "youngster" develop > > > into emotional "maturity" and therefor no longer has a right to claim > > > victimization from an abuser.... twelve, thirteen, eighteen, twenty- > > > one... thirty-five... fifty? > > > You seem to have this John Wayne tough-guy movie fiction working in > > > your head.....Maybe you should talk to some honest-to-goodness, real- > > > life stand-up people.... and stop depending on romanticized "gung-ho" > > > pablum for your assumptions into something you probably have never > > > experienced, yourself.... > > > Sounds like tough talk on my part.... but, frankly, tell me if and > > > when you have had experience in this regard, yourself... you know... > > > standing up to very aggressive or assertive people, who struck > > > understandable and "doable" fear into you.... > > > > > On Oct 5, 10:07 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Oh, but they are weaknesses....... show me ONE that is a strength or > that > > > > makes you NORMAL. It is a weakness in fact and by definition. > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Tommy News <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > *No Mark. You are misinformed.* > > > > > ** > > > > > *Depression is not a weakness, it is a mental illness.* > > > > > ** > > > > > *Ilnesses are not weaknesses. > > > > > * > > > > > > > On 10/4/10, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> *****Depression is something more that a purely "psychological" > > > > >> condition... it's "social", too.**** > > > > > > >> Please explain which disease or weakness of the Psyche is not > effected > > > by > > > > >> ALL outside influences.... Depression is a weakness... if you want > > > protected > > > > >> because you have it... wear a sign... do not expect different or > > > special > > > > >> treatment by anyone unless you inform them all. > > > > > > >> Again, to drive him over the edge he must have been doing > something > > > that > > > > >> he found so personally, morally or socially > repugnant/unacceptable... > > > for > > > > >> whatever reason and this is and was his OWN problem. > > > > > > >> As to candid cameraman... prosecute him.... but NOT for the boys > > > suicide > > > > >> (read the definition). > > > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:16 AM, nominal9 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > >>> Depression is something more that a purely "psychological" > > > > >>> condition... it's "social", too. This young person suicide victim > was > > > > >>> doing well enough until he was harassed (at least twice, > apparently) > > > > >>> by his room-mate. The "victim" was definitely the "recipient" of > the > > > > >>> act of being video-recorded in his sex acts (without his > knowledge or > > > > >>> consent, against his will) anfd then having those > video-recordings > > > > >>> broadcast to the public. This is a two part question of > "psychology" > > > > >>> the psychology of the room-mate (as agent/patient) who performed > the > > > > >>> act and the the psychology of the Victim (as patient/recipient) > > > > >>> first.. turned (as agent patient) into the performer of his own > act > > > of > > > > >>> suicide. > > > > > > >>> ROOM-MATE > > > > >>> I hate homos / want them dead....I tolerate homos / they can > live > > > > >>> C(BAD)..........R(BAD).... > > > > >>> I hate homos / they can live..........I tolerate homos / want > them > > > > >>> dead > > > > > > >>> VICTIM > > > > >>> love oneself / live.... hate oneself / suicide > > > > >>> C(GOOD).......R(GOOD).... > > > > >>> love oneself / suicide... hate oneself / live > > > > > > >>> ROOM-MATE > > > > >>> Harass / Peep&Shame......Respect / Honor Privacy > > > > >>> C(BAD)....R(BAD).... > > > > >>> Harass / Honor Privacy......Respect / Peep&Shame > > > > > > >>> VICTIM > > > > >>> hate oneself / suicide......love oneself / live > > > > >>> C(BAD) .......R(BAD)...... > > > > >>> hateoneself / live............love oneself / suicide > > > > > > >>> Basically, the VICTIM, after the "motivated act" of the ROOMMATE > took > > > > >>> on the Sentiment (hate) and the intent (public shame) of the act > that > > > > >>> was performed against him and acted as the ROOM-MATE "wanted" him > > > > >>> to.... he was "impresssionable", or appalled by the "cruelty" of > > > > >>> someone who could have (should have) been a "friend' (strictly > that) > > > > >>> and decided to give the ROOM-MATE what he desired...... > personally, > > > my > > > > >>> moral compass (and sense of justice) tells me that he should have > > > > >>> killed the ROOM-MATE, instead. > > > > > > >>> On Oct 1, 7:53 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>> > Tommy, No. > > > > > > >>> > Depression and or the propensity for it definitely varies > person to > > > > >>> person > > > > >>> > with EVERYONE being different and having their own limits. Only > > > those > > > > >>> with > > > > >>> > one foot on the ledge can be shoved over. > > > > > > >>> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Tommy News < > [email protected]> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > *Your twisted pretzel logic does not pass muster.* > > > > >>> > > ** > > > > >>> > > *You fail to see that depression is often triggered by the > acts > > > of > > > > >>> others, > > > > >>> > > such as bullies and abusive homophobic taunters.* > > > > >>> > > ** > > > > >>> > > *Suicide is caused by many factors.* > > > > > > >>> > > *Hatred, bullies, and bigotry are also caused by many > factors.* > > > > > > >>> > > On 10/1/10, Jonathan Ashley <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >>> > >> *SUICIDE*, n. [L. suicidium; se and coedo, to slay.] > > > > >>> > >> 1. Self-murder; the act of designedly destroying one's own > life. > > > > > > >>> > >> By definition, one cannot cause someone else to commit > > > > >>> "self-murder." If > > > > >>> > >> someone else can be factually proven to be at fault, then > that > > > > >>> individual > > > > >>> > >> would be guilty of murder. > > > > > > >>> > >> Has the individual who took the video been arrested for > murder? > > > If > > > > >>> not, > > > > >>> > >> you are jousting at windmills. > > > > > > >>> > >> On 10/1/2010 1:08 PM, Tommy News wrote: > > > > > > >>> > >> *Ignorant homophobes like you cause these suicides.* > > > > > > >>> > >> On 10/1/10, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > >>> No Tommy, it is not. The urge to destroy oneself is as > ancient > > > as > > > > >>> life > > > > >>> > >>> itself. There are so very many reasons people do this to > > > > >>> themselves, both > > > > >>> > >>> real and unreal reasons. There is however ONE reason ALL > > > suicides > > > > >>> do > > > > >>> > >>> this.... they are too weak to cope and that, Sir, is a > personal > > > > >>> problem. It > > > > >>> > >>> is NOT societal, and NOT something that can be legislated > that > > > > >>> causes me to > > > > >>> > >>> lose the freedom to ask if someone is Gay or Lesbian (for > > > whatever > > > > >>> reason) > > > > >>> > >>> or to call someone a flaming Queen if they are acting like > one. > > > > > > >>> > >>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Tommy News < > > > [email protected]> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > >>>> *Markie, Markie, Markie.* > > > > >>> > >>>> ** > > > > >>> > >>>> *Your ugly negativity and snarky spin is most perverse.* > > > > >>> > >>>> *One suicide is one too many.* > > > > > > >>> > >>>> *No man is an island* > > > > > > >>> > >>>> No man is an island entire of itself; every man > > > > >>> > >>>> is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; > > > > >>> > >>>> if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe > > > > >>> > >>>> is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as > > > > >>> > >>>> well as any manner of thy friends or of thine > > > > >>> > >>>> own were; any man's death diminishes me, > > > > >>> > >>>> because I am involved in mankind. > > > > >>> > >>>> And therefore never send to know for whom > > > > >>> > >>>> the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. > > > > > > >>> > >>>> -John Donne > > > > > > >>> > >>>> On 10/1/10, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >>> > >>>>> Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, > > > > > > >>> > >>>>> He must have had a > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > -- Mark M. Kahle H. -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
