Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor: 486sx
They're confusing the 486SX/DX difference with the 386SX/DX difference. In the 386, it was the bus. 16bit/32bit In the 486, it was the FPU. NoFPU/FPU Intel re-used the same suffix from the 386's, but changed the meaning. As I can see from this discussion, the confusion continues to this day. There are no bus differences on 486's. The DX can be used in the same mobo's as the SX. The same can not be said of the 386 CPUs. Of course, the LIF/ZIF sockets didn't come about until the 486, so it wasn't like you had to worry about getting the wrong mobo with your CPU on the 386. rowland wrote: On Tuesday 15 Oct 2002 2:56 am, Leon Brooks wrote: On Tuesday 15 October 2002 04:18 am, rowland wrote: On Monday 14 Oct 2002 11:23 am, J. Greenlees wrote: Thierry Vignaud wrote: also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips! 486sx was 486dx sans FPU and on a skinnier buss. To add an FPU, you bought a 487sx chip, which was really a 486dx that had failed some factory tests and been packaged for the skinnier buss. For a little while, some motherboards had an option to run with _only_ a 487sx, because they were significantly cheaper than a 486sx and usually worked fine (sometimes faster, because a 486sx had no CPU cache at first but many of the 487sxes did). Cheers; Leon dont see how 486sx could have 'skinnier bus' seeing as how the same motherboard socket could take either a sx or dx chip rowland
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor: 486sx
On Wednesday 16 October 2002 04:05 am, rowland wrote: dont see how 486sx could have 'skinnier bus' seeing as how the same motherboard socket could take either a sx or dx chip There were two different 486SX packages, one designed to be a proper SX like the 386SX, the other basically a de-nutted 486DX. The 487SX always had pretty much the same pinout as a 486DX. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor: 486sx
Leon Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips! 486sx was 486dx sans FPU they did have on in their silicon but it was disabled (by bios, missing pins, or hw circuit). it was just a *marketing hack* when you bought a 487 coprocessor, it was in fact a real 486dx and the motherboard uses that one and not any longer the old sx one
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor - Walmart issue?
Excuse me for dragging this issue around one more time, but isn't Walmart selling VIA C3 machines with Mandrake preinstalled? If so, were these machines introduced with 9.0 or 8.2? If they were introduced with 8.2 and buyers attempt to upgrade to 9.0 this could become a real pain for Mandrake. I would be a very unhappy customer if I bought a Mandrake based machine and then had problems reinstalling Mandrake on it. Has anyone checked this out? -George Bernard Varaine wrote: just bought a VIA EPIA 800 to build a small Linux box but I am getting errors when trying to install 9.0 RC2. Install seems to run smoothly, (just one error one copying to Xfree files) goes to setting up network and recognise the onboard NIC, setup users but then when displaying the services to choose the one you want to activate on boot there is none.. If you say OK the install them come with an error on mkinitrd.. Anyone out there have tried an install on same motherboard/processor.. regards Bernard
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor: 486sx
On Tuesday 15 Oct 2002 2:56 am, Leon Brooks wrote: On Tuesday 15 October 2002 04:18 am, rowland wrote: On Monday 14 Oct 2002 11:23 am, J. Greenlees wrote: Thierry Vignaud wrote: also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips! 486sx was 486dx sans FPU and on a skinnier buss. To add an FPU, you bought a 487sx chip, which was really a 486dx that had failed some factory tests and been packaged for the skinnier buss. For a little while, some motherboards had an option to run with _only_ a 487sx, because they were significantly cheaper than a 486sx and usually worked fine (sometimes faster, because a 486sx had no CPU cache at first but many of the 487sxes did). Cheers; Leon dont see how 486sx could have 'skinnier bus' seeing as how the same motherboard socket could take either a sx or dx chip rowland
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor - Walmart issue?
George Mitchell wrote on Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 08:37:48AM -0700 : Excuse me for dragging this issue around one more time, but isn't Walmart selling VIA C3 machines with Mandrake preinstalled? If so, were these machines introduced with 9.0 or 8.2? If they were introduced with AMD Athlon, Celeron P3, and P4. They are selling C3's as far as I know, but not preloaded with Mdk. Blue skies... Todd -- MandrakeSoft USA http://www.mandrakesoft.com Never take no as an answer from someone who's not authorized to say yes. --Ben Reser on Cooker ML Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.19-16mdk msg79101/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (btw RH's i386 compiled kernels won't run on a real i386 ... only i486 hum IIRC they are made for 386-DX (with a math coprocessor), did yours have one? if you run a 386-SX you don't have one. pedantic mode on: the 386DX did not have a math coprocessor (the 486DX did, though). The difference between the SX and DX was that the SX had only a 16-bit data bus. the 386sx was only be able to adress 16Mo if i remember correctly (the adress bus was only 24 bits) there was something weird with the cache too. also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack).
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Thierry Vignaud wrote: snip also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. -- HTML MAIL GETS TRASHED WITHOUT BEING READ
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri Oct 11 12:19 +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (btw RH's i386 compiled kernels won't run on a real i386 ... only i486 hum IIRC they are made for 386-DX (with a math coprocessor), did yours have one? if you run a 386-SX you don't have one. pedantic mode on: the 386DX did not have a math coprocessor (the 486DX did, though). The difference between the SX and DX was that the SX had only a 16-bit data bus. I suck :-(. I mixed with 486. Sorry :-((. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Monday 14 Oct 2002 11:23 am, J. Greenlees wrote: Thierry Vignaud wrote: snip also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips!
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor: 486sx
On Tuesday 15 October 2002 04:18 am, rowland wrote: On Monday 14 Oct 2002 11:23 am, J. Greenlees wrote: Thierry Vignaud wrote: also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips! 486sx was 486dx sans FPU and on a skinnier buss. To add an FPU, you bought a 487sx chip, which was really a 486dx that had failed some factory tests and been packaged for the skinnier buss. For a little while, some motherboards had an option to run with _only_ a 487sx, because they were significantly cheaper than a 486sx and usually worked fine (sometimes faster, because a 486sx had no CPU cache at first but many of the 487sxes did). Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor: 486sx
Leon Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 15 October 2002 04:18 am, rowland wrote: On Monday 14 Oct 2002 11:23 am, J. Greenlees wrote: Thierry Vignaud wrote: also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips! 486sx was 486dx sans FPU and on a skinnier buss. To add an FPU, you bought a 487sx chip, which was really a 486dx that had failed some factory tests and been packaged for the skinnier buss. For a little while, some motherboards had an option to run with _only_ a 487sx, because they were significantly cheaper than a 486sx and usually worked fine (sometimes faster, because a 486sx had no CPU cache at first but many of the 487sxes did). Cheers; Leon Its alway nice to know marketing to make a royal screw-up in product development seem like a great thing! Whats worse is when outrageous claims are made by marketing for products that don't exist. :)) -Ian __ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Fri Oct 11 12:19 +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (btw RH's i386 compiled kernels won't run on a real i386 ... only i486 hum IIRC they are made for 386-DX (with a math coprocessor), did yours have one? if you run a 386-SX you don't have one. pedantic mode on: the 386DX did not have a math coprocessor (the 486DX did, though). The difference between the SX and DX was that the SX had only a 16-bit data bus. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Love lies in pools of questions. GPG Key Fingerprint: 354C 7A02 77C5 9EE7 8538 4E8D DCD9 B4B0 DC35 67CD Currently playing: The Cure - Purple Haze.ogg Linux 2.4.19-16mdk 1:10pm up 8 days, 11:35, 10 users, load average: 0.45, 0.38, 0.27
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (btw RH's i386 compiled kernels won't run on a real i386 ... only i486 hum IIRC they are made for 386-DX (with a math coprocessor), did yours have one? if you run a 386-SX you don't have one. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Levi Ramsey said: (btw RH's i386 compiled kernels won't run on a real i386 ... only i486 hum IIRC they are made for 386-DX (with a math coprocessor), did yours have one? if you run a 386-SX you don't have one. pedantic mode on: the 386DX did not have a math coprocessor (the 486DX did, though). The difference between the SX and DX was that the SX had only a 16-bit data bus. Yes it had no coprocessor on board but you can buy external one.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Fri Oct 11 22:11 -0400, Yura Gusev wrote: Levi Ramsey said: (btw RH's i386 compiled kernels won't run on a real i386 ... only i486 hum IIRC they are made for 386-DX (with a math coprocessor), did yours have one? if you run a 386-SX you don't have one. pedantic mode on: the 386DX did not have a math coprocessor (the 486DX did, though). The difference between the SX and DX was that the SX had only a 16-bit data bus. Yes it had no coprocessor on board but you can buy external one. yeah, misread gc... I read what he wrote as saying that the difference between the 386DX and the 386SX was that the DX had a built-in FPU. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Love lies in pools of questions. GPG Key Fingerprint: 354C 7A02 77C5 9EE7 8538 4E8D DCD9 B4B0 DC35 67CD Currently playing: Stone Temple Pilots - Too Cool Queenie Linux 2.4.19-16mdk 10:30pm up 8 days, 20:55, 11 users, load average: 0.52, 0.37, 0.29
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Ben Reser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: surely this should be something that is done after installation. If you are going to say 'so people who have i686 machines will have faster/better machines' then it should also optimise for athlons as well!!! I'm sure if someone submitted a patch to do so it'd be accepted in this particular case. There are only a couple libraries in the i686 directory (the i586 ones are just in /lib). They are libraries that Nope, the problem is more of the performance you gain with that, compared to the diskspace it uses. And gentoo or mandrake users compiling all for athlon target seem to report that it doesn't make a significant difference. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Le Jeudi 10 Octobre 2002 12:13, Guillaume Cottenceau a écrit : Ben Reser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: surely this should be something that is done after installation. If you are going to say 'so people who have i686 machines will have faster/better machines' then it should also optimise for athlons as well!!! I'm sure if someone submitted a patch to do so it'd be accepted in this particular case. There are only a couple libraries in the i686 directory (the i586 ones are just in /lib). They are libraries that Nope, the problem is more of the performance you gain with that, compared to the diskspace it uses. And gentoo or mandrake users compiling all for athlon target seem to report that it doesn't make a significant difference. A simple question : is anyone can do/maintain an unofficial/official (could be automatic, as for i586) i686 version of cooker with src.rpm ? And, if it's possible, how-to ? What do you think about that ? Will it be a problem with mirror's ftp space if Mdk decide to do it ? Thx, Florent -- EXCEPTIONNEL! Tiscali lance les forfaits Internet Illimités, à partir de 15,95EUR / mois. Pour en profiter,cliquez ici: http://register.tiscali.fr/forfaits/ Offres soumises à conditions.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Thursday 10 October 2002 12:13, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Nope, the problem is more of the performance you gain with that, compared to the diskspace it uses. And gentoo or mandrake users compiling all for athlon target seem to report that it doesn't make a significant difference. What about targetting the P IV?
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Thu Oct 10 12:29 +0200, Florent BERANGER wrote: A simple question : is anyone can do/maintain an unofficial/official (could be automatic, as for i586) i686 version of cooker with src.rpm ? And, if it's possible, how-to ? What do you think about that ? Will it be a problem with mirror's ftp space if Mdk decide to do it ? In theory, it shouldn't be too difficult, especially if you have a compile farm available (though I suppose you could only do rebuilds on the stable branch and security updates). In theory, rsyncing to a mirror's SRPMS directory, rebuilding, deleting the old packages, and gendistribing is all you'd need to do. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Love lies in pools of questions. GPG Key Fingerprint: 354C 7A02 77C5 9EE7 8538 4E8D DCD9 B4B0 DC35 67CD Currently playing: Led Zeppelin - Dazed and Confused Linux 2.4.19-16mdk 12:10pm up 7 days, 10:35, 8 users, load average: 0.11, 0.26, 0.18
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Ben Reser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: surely this should be something that is done after installation. If you are going to say 'so people who have i686 machines will have faster/better machines' then it should also optimise for athlons as well!!! yes but what is important is the instruction set of the CPU not the manufacturer. Athlons (If I'm correct) are basically i686 so it doesn't pay to waste time doing the same thing twice. (Like 300 windows drivers for all the tulip based nic cards vs one on Unix.) However i586 vs i686 is a rather large difference. Enough that it not only can make a performance difference it can make a difference in the ability to boot. (btw RH's i386 compiled kernels won't run on a real i386 ... only i486 go figure.) So there is a difference there. Paging, Memeory handling (DDR vs PC1xx vs PC66) and more. The rules that apply to applications (Abi-Word, Evolution etc.) Don't always apply to system level programs. and really don't apply to kernels. James I'm sure if someone submitted a patch to do so it'd be accepted in this particular case. There are only a couple libraries in the i686 directory (the i586 ones are just in /lib). They are libraries that Nope, the problem is more of the performance you gain with that, compared to the diskspace it uses. And gentoo or mandrake users compiling all for athlon target seem to report that it doesn't make a significant difference. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/ James S. Sparenberg Director New Product Development Open Country Inc. (408) 248-8530 office (408) 248-8506
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Friday 11 October 2002 07:54 am, James Sparenberg wrote: (Like 300 windows drivers for all the tulip based nic cards vs one on Unix.) Two on Linux. As usual, some of the clones are a bit... odd. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
ooops sorry but still the point is pretty much the same. (I hope) James On Friday 11 October 2002 07:54 am, James Sparenberg wrote: (Like 300 windows drivers for all the tulip based nic cards vs one on Unix.) Two on Linux. As usual, some of the clones are a bit... odd. Cheers; Leon James S. Sparenberg Director New Product Development Open Country Inc. (408) 248-8530 office (408) 248-8506
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Got it to install here via the graphical method. by moving /mnt/lib/i686 to /mnt/lib/i686.no On disk 3 and no problems so far. James On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 12:35, James Sparenberg wrote: On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 10:32, rowland wrote: On Monday 07 October 2002 6:04 pm, you wrote: this is what I had to do to install 9.0 onto a epia 800 C3 motherboard do a text install, as packages start to install watch for glibc, when you see this, switch to console (alt + F2), type rm -r /mnt/lib/i686 and press return/enter. It should now load normally. you should now switch back with alt+F1. Only problem is you don't get to choose which packages to load this way but I could not switch to console from graphical installation, is this another set of bugs/features? You can switch just that I've always found that you have to go to ctrl alt f1 first the alt f2. As for watching an app. click details and you can see it happen just as in the text install. All this does beg the question, why does a distribution claiming to be i586 compatible, have a directory named i686? It's part of glibc and if you have a 686 cpu (like a celeron) it does get used for the kernel. (Even in RH they do this) James rowland On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. James
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
After installing with the delete /mnt/lib/i686 trick it does work fine. Enlightment is a bit on the sluggish side on it but it is not really for this purpose.. Has been runnign since this morning acting as traffic logger and running tcpdump for hours . going to play setting it up for my ISP connection modem uplink-satellite downlink with proxy filtering firewalling etc and see how well it runs Bernard -- Digital Objects Ltd Internet security / Web hosting design / Web enabled applications PO Box 60510, Titirangi Waitakere City Phone: 0800 LETS DOIT (538736) Fax: +64 9 8128 368 www.digitalobjects.co.nz smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
rowland penny [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads to optimize better for i686 and superior processors, what else? it's not incompatible with being i586 compatible, or explain me your reasoning. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 10:37 pm, Ben Reser wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the installation cd's are for i568, so why is there a directory named i686. the fact is that if the rpms are for i586 then the kernel should be for i586 and anybody who has a i586 should recompile the kernel themselves. ok the processer or the software that identifies it is bugged, but if the i686 directory had not been there, this whole problem would not have happened :-) rowland On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:15:20PM +0100, rowland penny wrote: mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads onto a epia based system without any trouble so why doesn't mandrake! Well from what I understand the bug isn't that the i686 directory is there. The i686 directory lets i686 machines use the optimized libraries for their arch. Everything else will use the libraries in just the /lib dir. Apparently there was a bug in the kernel that mistakenly identifies your processor as i686 not i586. So ld tries to use the i686 libraries. Thus the error. Deleting the i686 tree resolves the bug because then ld does try to use those libraries since they aren't there and falls back on the other ones. The workaround is already posted on the errata page. At this point there is no other way to fix it other than replacing the kernel in the install CD with a fixed one. And that isn't going to happen until the next version. Now at some point I'm sure cooker will get fixed and then you could make a CD set with just the cooker kernel and that will work around you problem in an easier way.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
rowland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 10:37 pm, Ben Reser wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the actually it's rather you are missing the point, it seems. installation cd's are for i568, so why is there a directory named i686. the because optimizing the glibc makes a big difference, the rest of the programs can stay for i586 it doesn't make a big difference. fact is that if the rpms are for i586 then the kernel should be for i586 and it is. anybody who has a i586 should recompile the kernel themselves. ok the processer or the software that identifies it is bugged, but if the i686 finally you got the point. yes, the kernel which identifies the processor has a bug with via. this is what everybody keeps saying. directory had not been there, this whole problem would not have happened :-) well, yes, and if we would use a windows kernel the whole problem would also not have happened.. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 07:03:53PM +0100, rowland wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the installation cd's are for i568, so why is there a directory named i686. the fact is that if the rpms are for i586 then the kernel should be for i586 and anybody who has a i586 should recompile the kernel themselves. ok the processer or the software that identifies it is bugged, but if the i686 directory had not been there, this whole problem would not have happened :-) No the bug would have still been there. You just wouldn't have had a problem with it. The bug is *NOT* the presence of the i686 directory. The bug is the incorrect detection of your processor as being i686 not i586. Deleting the i686 is just a work around for the problem. -- Ben Reser [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ben.reser.org Never take no as an answer from someone who isn't authorized to say yes.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 08:14:48PM +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: rowland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 10:37 pm, Ben Reser wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the Just to clarify I didn't write that. rowland doesn't know how to do attributions right so it's not showing right. :( -- Ben Reser [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ben.reser.org Never take no as an answer from someone who isn't authorized to say yes.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
I understand (and I understood this from the start) that the bug is in the way the C3 is reported, I also understand that mandrake 9.0 is advertised as being for i586! In which case, why is there the ability tp optomise for i686, surely this should be something that is done after installation. If you are going to say 'so people who have i686 machines will have faster/better machines' then it should also optimise for athlons as well!!! rowland on Wednesday 09 Oct 2002 7:53 pm, Ben Reser wrote: On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 07:03:53PM +0100, rowland wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the installation cd's are for i568, so why is there a directory named i686. the fact is that if the rpms are for i586 then the kernel should be for i586 and anybody who has a i586 should recompile the kernel themselves. ok the processer or the software that identifies it is bugged, but if the i686 directory had not been there, this whole problem would not have happened :-) No the bug would have still been there. You just wouldn't have had a problem with it. The bug is *NOT* the presence of the i686 directory. The bug is the incorrect detection of your processor as being i686 not i586. Deleting the i686 is just a work around for the problem.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 08:27:26PM +0100, rowland wrote: I understand (and I understood this from the start) that the bug is in the way the C3 is reported, I also understand that mandrake 9.0 is advertised as being for i586! In which case, why is there the ability tp optomise for i686, surely this should be something that is done after installation. If you are going to say 'so people who have i686 machines will have faster/better machines' then it should also optimise for athlons as well!!! I'm sure if someone submitted a patch to do so it'd be accepted in this particular case. There are only a couple libraries in the i686 directory (the i586 ones are just in /lib). They are libraries that i686 users get significantly better performance by using. These i686 libraries do not hurt i586 machines in general. So I really don't see what your complaint is about. -- Ben Reser [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ben.reser.org Never take no as an answer from someone who isn't authorized to say yes.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Thu Oct 10 19:03 +0100, rowland wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the installation cd's are for i568, so why is there a directory named i686. the fact is that if the rpms are for i586 then the kernel should be for i586 and anybody who has a i586 should recompile the kernel themselves. ok the processer or the software that identifies it is bugged, but if the i686 directory had not been there, this whole problem would not have happened :-) No, we're not missing the point. The underlying flaw is that the C3 misreports itself. That is a big no-no. The kernel *is* built for i586... [root@tatiana root]# cat /boot/config | grep -C 4 586 # Processor type and features # # CONFIG_M386 is not set # CONFIG_M486 is not set CONFIG_M586=y # CONFIG_M586TSC is not set # CONFIG_M586MMX is not set # CONFIG_M686 is not set # CONFIG_MPENTIUMIII is not set # CONFIG_MPENTIUM4 is not set # CONFIG_MK6 is not set Perhaps the glibc RPMs are mistagged... maybe Red Hat's style of having two glibc's is better. However, for performance reasons (glibc functions are called sufficiently often for optimization to be noticeable), DrakX would probably run a CPUID test and install the appropriate glibc. Guess what: that still doesn't solve the problem. The bulk of the blame rests on VIA (or possibly the kernel developers). Passing the blame to Mandrake for their packaging of glibc is ludicrous. By your logic, you are somewhat at fault: if you hadn't tried to install Mandrake on broken hardware this whole problem would not have happened :-) PS: please fix your Reply-To headers... there's no need to set them to your From: address and they screw up the list. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Love lies in pools of questions. GPG Key Fingerprint: 354C 7A02 77C5 9EE7 8538 4E8D DCD9 B4B0 DC35 67CD Currently playing: John Barry - Capsule in Space Linux 2.4.19-16mdk 6:00pm up 6 days, 16:25, 8 users, load average: 0.19, 0.21, 0.15
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Levi Ramsey wrote on Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 06:15:58PM -0400 : The underlying flaw is that the C3 misreports itself. That is a big no-no. I was privy to a conversation that a kernel developer made the following comments: Oh, I point out that C3 really is: * an i686 [cmov is actually optional] * with the i586 instruction set [ok, really k6-2 insn set] * that schedules like i486 In the new kernels (2.5 series), this CPU is being treated as a 486 with MMX+3DNOW. The bulk of the blame rests on VIA (or possibly the kernel developers). I think it's a little of both. Blue skies... Todd -- | MandrakeSoft USA | Sometimes you get what you want. | | http://www.mandrakesoft.com | Sometimes you get experience.| | http://www.mandrakelinux.com |--unknown origin | Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.19-16mdk msg78641/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 07:40, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: rowland penny [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads to optimize better for i686 and superior processors, what else? it's not incompatible with being i586 compatible, or explain me your reasoning. Short sweet and to the point thanks Guillaume James -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Todd Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: rowland wrote on Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 10:25:44PM +0100 : On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 pm, you wrote: why does redhat 8.0 work but mandrake 9.0 does not? obviously someone must RedHat is compiled for i386. Mandrake is compiled for i586. That For glibc, RH uses two separate packages, glibc-version.i386.rpm and glibc-version.i686.rpm; mandrake does it differently: only one package but there is the i686 optimized version in /lib/i686, which is dynamically used when the kernel tells that the processor is i686 compatible. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Mikkel Højer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] GC what's the connection between via c3 and doing text install? I haven't figured out how to switch console in graphic mode. Ctrl Alt F2. [...] GC about 2 minutes :). as my previous message tells, I think this GC method is not very reliable (but feasible). Agree - but so far it's the only solution that works. Installing with /images/alternatives/cdrom.img-2.2.19* is probably the best solution. - cd /mnt/lib/i686 - rm * Basically I was just trying to describe how I did this, since the other descriptions on the list where either incorrect or incomplete at that time. Yep, thanks for that. Thanks for the help - it was a happy moment after many unsuccessful attempts to install several Beta's and RC's :) Yep. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Hello Guillaume, Tuesday, October 8, 2002, 3:53:31 PM, you wrote: GC mhnix [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My procedure: - At boot choose F1 - type text to choose install mode GC what's the connection between via c3 and doing text install? I haven't figured out how to switch console in graphic mode. - when install starts press Alt-F2 right after glib is installed GC not glib, glibc. they are pretty different packages. My mistake - it was getting late. - you now have about 2 minutes to do: GC about 2 minutes :). as my previous message tells, I think this GC method is not very reliable (but feasible). Agree - but so far it's the only solution that works. - cd /mnt/lib/i686 - rm * Basically I was just trying to describe how I did this, since the other descriptions on the list where either incorrect or incomplete at that time. Thanks for the help - it was a happy moment after many unsuccessful attempts to install several Beta's and RC's :) -- Best regards, Mikkelmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
mhnix [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My procedure: - At boot choose F1 - type text to choose install mode what's the connection between via c3 and doing text install? - when install starts press Alt-F2 right after glib is installed not glib, glibc. they are pretty different packages. - you now have about 2 minutes to do: about 2 minutes :). as my previous message tells, I think this method is not very reliable (but feasible). - cd /mnt/lib/i686 - rm * -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Jesper Krogh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After all packages has been installed , press crtl + Fsomething to get to the shell, /lib/i686 exists, remove it and all the rest works fine. No it's too late, because the %post scripts of packages will fail during install. You need, either to go to console #2 and manage to delete /mnt/lib/i686 as soon as files appear in it (but it's not very reliable) or install from /images/alternatives/cdrom.img-2.2.19-BADZ5 -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Monday 07 October 2002 6:04 pm, you wrote: this is what I had to do to install 9.0 onto a epia 800 C3 motherboard do a text install, as packages start to install watch for glibc, when you see this, switch to console (alt + F2), type rm -r /mnt/lib/i686 and press return/enter. It should now load normally. you should now switch back with alt+F1. Only problem is you don't get to choose which packages to load this way but I could not switch to console from graphical installation, is this another set of bugs/features? All this does beg the question, why does a distribution claiming to be i586 compatible, have a directory named i686? rowland On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. James
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Tue Oct 08 0:57 +0200, mhnix wrote: My procedure: - At boot choose F1 - type text to choose install mode - when install starts press Alt-F2 right after glib is installed You should be able to get away with a graphical install, but pressing Ctrl-Alt-F2 -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Love lies in pools of questions. GPG Key Fingerprint: 354C 7A02 77C5 9EE7 8538 4E8D DCD9 B4B0 DC35 67CD Currently playing: Megadeth - FFF Linux 2.4.19-16mdk 10:10am up 5 days, 8:34, 7 users, load average: 0.06, 0.26, 0.27
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 10:32, rowland wrote: On Monday 07 October 2002 6:04 pm, you wrote: this is what I had to do to install 9.0 onto a epia 800 C3 motherboard do a text install, as packages start to install watch for glibc, when you see this, switch to console (alt + F2), type rm -r /mnt/lib/i686 and press return/enter. It should now load normally. you should now switch back with alt+F1. Only problem is you don't get to choose which packages to load this way but I could not switch to console from graphical installation, is this another set of bugs/features? You can switch just that I've always found that you have to go to ctrl alt f1 first the alt f2. As for watching an app. click details and you can see it happen just as in the text install. All this does beg the question, why does a distribution claiming to be i586 compatible, have a directory named i686? It's part of glibc and if you have a 686 cpu (like a celeron) it does get used for the kernel. (Even in RH they do this) James rowland On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. James
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 8:35 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: It's part of glibc and if you have a 686 cpu (like a celeron) it does get used for the kernel. (Even in RH they do this) James mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads onto a epia based system without any trouble so why doesn't mandrake! rowland
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:15:20PM +0100, rowland penny wrote: mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads onto a epia based system without any trouble so why doesn't mandrake! Well from what I understand the bug isn't that the i686 directory is there. The i686 directory lets i686 machines use the optimized libraries for their arch. Everything else will use the libraries in just the /lib dir. Apparently there was a bug in the kernel that mistakenly identifies your processor as i686 not i586. So ld tries to use the i686 libraries. Thus the error. Deleting the i686 tree resolves the bug because then ld does try to use those libraries since they aren't there and falls back on the other ones. The workaround is already posted on the errata page. At this point there is no other way to fix it other than replacing the kernel in the install CD with a fixed one. And that isn't going to happen until the next version. Now at some point I'm sure cooker will get fixed and then you could make a CD set with just the cooker kernel and that will work around you problem in an easier way. -- Ben Reser [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ben.reser.org Never take no as an answer from someone who isn't authorized to say yes.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Wednesday 09 October 2002 01:32 am, rowland wrote: All this does beg the question, why does a distribution claiming to be i586 compatible, have a directory named i686? To get better performance on a '686. If the Via chip didn't lie about it's capabilities, it would all work sweetly, too. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Wednesday 09 October 2002 04:15 pm, rowland penny wrote: On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 8:35 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: It's part of glibc and if you have a 686 cpu (like a celeron) it does get used for the kernel. (Even in RH they do this) James mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads onto a epia based system without any trouble so why doesn't mandrake! Mandrake works just fine on i586 processors. I run it on my i-opener with an IDT Winchip 200 MHz processor. It is possible, as someone has mentioned, that the chip you have lies about being a i686 when it's not fully compatible with that family. Try 'cat /proc/cpuinfo'. If it says cpu family: 6, then that is the problem. As for the i686 directory: it's there so people who have a newer processor (which is probably more than 90% of the installs) have their system running faster. RH might not include this optimization, so it would run slower. I don't see why the majority of the users has to take a performance hit just so that one or two people with a buggy processor have problems. However, Mandrake could possibly detect the processor type and install a different set of libraries for weird CPUs. If you are really desperate, you can try moving that directory somewhere so that the libraries from it don't get loaded, if that's what's causing the problem. -- -- Igor
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 19:47, Igor Izyumin wrote: On Wednesday 09 October 2002 04:15 pm, rowland penny wrote: On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 8:35 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: It's part of glibc and if you have a 686 cpu (like a celeron) it does get used for the kernel. (Even in RH they do this) James mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads onto a epia based system without any trouble so why doesn't mandrake! Mandrake works just fine on i586 processors. I run it on my i-opener with an IDT Winchip 200 MHz processor. It is possible, as someone has mentioned, that the chip you have lies about being a i686 when it's not fully compatible with that family. Try 'cat /proc/cpuinfo'. If it says cpu family: 6, then that is the problem. As for the i686 directory: it's there so people who have a newer processor (which is probably more than 90% of the installs) have their system running faster. RH might not include this optimization, so it would run slower. I don't see why the majority of the users has to take a performance hit just so that one or two people with a buggy processor have problems. However, Mandrake could possibly detect the processor type and install a different set of libraries for weird CPUs. If you are really desperate, you can try moving that directory somewhere so that the libraries from it don't get loaded, if that's what's causing the problem. -- -- Igor Most of this I agree with exception however is taken to referring to the chip as weird The problem is that it came out very late in the cycle about beta4 at that time I was the ONLY voice trying to say something. Todd was as helpful as he could be (Thank-You) but it took too much time to build up a large enough mass of users to get voices heard. 2.4.19 does have the Via CPU3 in the compile instructions. However it just won't build right on 8.2 (it's too unstable to stay up for an entire build for one thing.) so I never got that working right. If you check VIA's site you'll not the the errata pages they have mention that the kernel should be built for the k-6 family (i586) for optimal performance. That I did get running. But 8.2 beind 8.2 9.0 is better. NOW I know how to force the i586 kernel install onto 9.0 and I can then build optimized for VIA yeeeh. James
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Same experiences here... I have told Todd in an mandrakeexpert.com incident that I'm going to send the developers a board in order to get this solved. A couple of questions before I call UPS: Users: Has anyone done this before and what should I expect will happen? (patch, special build/release or support in 9.1 when it is released) Developers: I would like to get a contact person to make sure the board arrives and to supply me with updates. Can you help me with that? -- Best regards, Mikkel Højer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wingercom Hosting http://wingercom.dk
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. James
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
rowland wrote on Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 10:25:44PM +0100 : On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 pm, you wrote: why does redhat 8.0 work but mandrake 9.0 does not? obviously someone must RedHat is compiled for i386. Mandrake is compiled for i586. That should illuminate a little bit of the problem. Others far more knowledgeable than I are working on it. Blue skies... Todd -- ...and I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my binaries, and you will know my name is root, when I lay my vengeance upon thee. Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.0-0.3mdk Kernel 2.4.19-16mdk msg78375/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
James Sparenberg sagde: On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. I have just done it, now Mandrake 9.0 installs fine on my VIA C3: [root@localhost root]# cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : CentaurHauls cpu family : 6 model : 5 model name : VIA Ezra stepping: 8 cpu MHz : 930.986 cache size : 64 KB fdiv_bug: no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de tsc msr cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow bogomips: 1854.66 -- Jesper Krogh
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
* Stardate: 2002-10-07 22:37 * Incoming subspace signal from Jesper Krogh [EMAIL PROTECTED] : James Sparenberg sagde: On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. I have just done it, now Mandrake 9.0 installs fine on my VIA C3: [root@localhost root]# cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : CentaurHauls cpu family : 6 model : 5 model name : VIA Ezra stepping: 8 cpu MHz : 930.986 cache size : 64 KB fdiv_bug: no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de tsc msr cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow bogomips: 1854.66 I have had these same problems installing 9.0 with a C3 VIA Samuel processor. processor : 0 vendor_id : CentaurHauls cpu family : 6 model : 5 model name : VIA Samuel stepping: 3 cpu MHz : 666.233 cache size : 128 KB fdiv_bug: no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de tsc msr mce cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow bogomips: 1330.38 I managed to install 9.0 with one of the alternative boot images. But after that install 9.0 was unable to boot. I deleted /lib/i686, the system boots allright now. Maybe you should take a look at the following thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/cooker@linux-mandrake.com/msg77976.html -- Best regards, M@X. * Climate Control Psychedelic Soundscapes - http://go.to/cchq/ * Linux Shell Scripts RPM Software Packages - http://go.to/conmen/ * Photography Pages - http://home.wanadoo.nl/cchq/photo/photo.html System is up 19 min
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Success here as well: [root@sweatbloodtears root]# cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : CentaurHauls cpu family : 6 model : 5 model name : VIA Ezra stepping: 8 cpu MHz : 800.047 cache size : 64 KB fdiv_bug: no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de tsc msr cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow bogomips: 1595.80 My procedure: - At boot choose F1 - type text to choose install mode - when install starts press Alt-F2 right after glib is installed - you now have about 2 minutes to do: - cd /mnt/lib/i686 - rm * Installation proceeds... -- Best regards, Mikkel Højer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
måndagen den 7 oktober 2002 19.26 skrev Todd Lyons: rowland wrote on Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 10:25:44PM +0100 : On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 pm, you wrote: why does redhat 8.0 work but mandrake 9.0 does not? obviously someone must RedHat is compiled for i386. Mandrake is compiled for i586. That should illuminate a little bit of the problem. Others far more knowledgeable than I are working on it. That's not entirely true in this case since the optimized glibc parts are built for i686, and the rest of the distro for i586. not? kind of wierd stuff...
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Jesper love it!! I'm heading home from the office and can't wait to try it out. w h... James James Sparenberg sagde: On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. I have just done it, now Mandrake 9.0 installs fine on my VIA C3: [root@localhost root]# cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : CentaurHauls cpu family : 6 model : 5 model name : VIA Ezra stepping: 8 cpu MHz : 930.986 cache size : 64 KB fdiv_bug: no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de tsc msr cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow bogomips: 1854.66 -- Jesper Krogh James S. Sparenberg Director New Product Development Open Country Inc. (408) 248-8530 office (408) 248-8506
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
I have just done it, now Mandrake 9.0 installs fine on my VIA C3: [root@localhost root]# cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : CentaurHauls cpu family : 6 model : 5 model name : VIA Ezra stepping: 8 cpu MHz : 930.986 cache size : 64 KB fdiv_bug: no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de tsc msr cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow bogomips: 1854.66 Can you send a quick HOWTO ? Thanks. Bernard -- Digital Objects Ltd Internet security / Web hosting design / Web enabled applications PO Box 60510, Titirangi Waitakere City Phone: 0800 LETS DOIT (538736) Fax: +64 9 8128 368 www.digitalobjects.co.nz smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Bernard Varaine sagde: I have just done it, now Mandrake 9.0 installs fine on my VIA C3: [root@localhost root]# cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : CentaurHauls cpu family : 6 model : 5 model name : VIA Ezra stepping: 8 cpu MHz : 930.986 cache size : 64 KB fdiv_bug: no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de tsc msr cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow bogomips: 1854.66 Can you send a quick HOWTO ? After all packages has been installed , press crtl + Fsomething to get to the shell, /lib/i686 exists, remove it and all the rest works fine. -- Jesper Krogh
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 am, you wrote: thanks, I did not think it was right, but had to check. now if someone could just help by pointing me in the right direction of why 9.0 will not work, I would be most gratefull :-) rowland. rowland wrote on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 05:22:20PM +0100 : On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? No, it was compiled *ON* an i686 *FOR* i586. Blue skies... Todd
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
I will also :-) Bernard rowland wrote: On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 am, you wrote: thanks, I did not think it was right, but had to check. now if someone could just help by pointing me in the right direction of why 9.0 will not work, I would be most gratefull :-) rowland. rowland wrote on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 05:22:20PM +0100 : On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? No, it was compiled *ON* an i686 *FOR* i586. Blue skies... Todd -- Digital Objects Ltd Internet security / Web hosting design / Web enabled applications PO Box 60510, Titirangi Waitakere City Phone: 0800 LETS DOIT (538736) Fax: +64 9 8128 368 www.digitalobjects.co.nz smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 pm, you wrote: why does redhat 8.0 work but mandrake 9.0 does not? obviously someone must know. After using mandrake from 7.0 I find that I must now either switch to redhat or suse or in fact anybodies distribution to use linux on my mini-itx board . would anybody care to comment on this. rowland. I will also :-) Bernard rowland wrote: On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 am, you wrote: thanks, I did not think it was right, but had to check. now if someone could just help by pointing me in the right direction of why 9.0 will not work, I would be most gratefull :-) rowland. rowland wrote on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 05:22:20PM +0100 : On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? No, it was compiled *ON* an i686 *FOR* i586. Blue skies... Todd
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Can I third this motion. I've installed rh7.1,2,3 on this mobo/cpu combo SuSe 8.0 all without a problem. 8.2 goes in smoothly but isn't optimal for the CPU When I try to build the new kernel from source the changes (such as how docs get created) require things that I can't install on 8.2 ... From rc2 forward the error on install is the exact same. It cannot install XFree86-4.2.1 (from disks that have been MD5-d, recorded at 1 and have installed over on a number of other boxes without a flaw.) Then if you click continue anyway, it gets to the services page, tells me that no service are available and aborts the install. Rescue as well cannot boot correctly on this mobo (I'm assuming because of the problem recognizing the CPU as a legit i586 BUT the 8.2 rescue can boot. BTW Windows goes in as well as does FreeBSD and NetBSD. James On Sat, 2002-10-05 at 05:45, rowland wrote: On Saturday 05 October 2002 10:57 am, you wrote: dont bother, it does the same for me, tried fresh install, upgrade over 8.2 and just packages upgrade, but I get the same answer as bernard everytime , now trying upgrading kde etc seperatlly to see where the problem lies rowland penny On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bernard Varaine wrote: Please try final, IIRC there were a number of issues that were resolved relating to non-intel and non-AMD CPUS between RC2 and final. just bought a VIA EPIA 800 to build a small Linux box but I am getting errors when trying to install 9.0 RC2. Install seems to run smoothly, (just one error one copying to Xfree files) goes to setting up network and recognise the onboard NIC, setup users but then when displaying the services to choose the one you want to activate on boot there is none.. If you say OK the install them come with an error on mkinitrd.. Anyone out there have tried an install on same motherboard/processor.. regards Bernard
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
Can I third this motion. I've installed rh7.1,2,3 on this mobo/cpu combo SuSe 8.0 all without a problem. 8.2 goes in smoothly but isn't optimal for the CPU When I try to build the new kernel from source the changes (such as how docs get created) require things that I can't install on 8.2 ... From rc2 forward the error on install is the exact same. It cannot install XFree86-4.2.1 (from disks that have been MD5-d, recorded at 1 and have installed over on a number of other boxes without a flaw.) Then if you click continue anyway, it gets to the services page, tells me that no service are available and aborts the install. Rescue as well cannot boot correctly on this mobo (I'm assuming because of the problem recognizing the CPU as a legit i586 BUT the 8.2 rescue can boot. BTW Windows goes in as well as does FreeBSD and NetBSD. James On Sat, 2002-10-05 at 05:45, rowland wrote: On Saturday 05 October 2002 10:57 am, you wrote: dont bother, it does the same for me, tried fresh install, upgrade over 8.2 and just packages upgrade, but I get the same answer as bernard everytime , now trying upgrading kde etc seperatlly to see where the problem lies rowland penny On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bernard Varaine wrote: Please try final, IIRC there were a number of issues that were resolved relating to non-intel and non-AMD CPUS between RC2 and final. just bought a VIA EPIA 800 to build a small Linux box but I am getting errors when trying to install 9.0 RC2. Install seems to run smoothly, (just one error one copying to Xfree files) goes to setting up network and recognise the onboard NIC, setup users but then when displaying the services to choose the one you want to activate on boot there is none.. If you say OK the install them come with an error on mkinitrd.. Anyone out there have tried an install on same motherboard/processor.. regards Bernard
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Saturday 05 October 2002 10:57 am, you wrote: dont bother, it does the same for me, tried fresh install, upgrade over 8.2 and just packages upgrade, but I get the same answer as bernard everytime , now trying upgrading kde etc seperatlly to see where the problem lies rowland penny On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bernard Varaine wrote: Please try final, IIRC there were a number of issues that were resolved relating to non-intel and non-AMD CPUS between RC2 and final. just bought a VIA EPIA 800 to build a small Linux box but I am getting errors when trying to install 9.0 RC2. Install seems to run smoothly, (just one error one copying to Xfree files) goes to setting up network and recognise the onboard NIC, setup users but then when displaying the services to choose the one you want to activate on boot there is none.. If you say OK the install them come with an error on mkinitrd.. Anyone out there have tried an install on same motherboard/processor.. regards Bernard
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? rowland penny On Saturday 05 October 2002 10:57 am, you wrote: dont bother, it does the same for me, tried fresh install, upgrade over 8.2 and just packages upgrade, but I get the same answer as bernard everytime , now trying upgrading kde etc seperatlly to see where the problem lies rowland penny On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bernard Varaine wrote: Please try final, IIRC there were a number of issues that were resolved relating to non-intel and non-AMD CPUS between RC2 and final. just bought a VIA EPIA 800 to build a small Linux box but I am getting errors when trying to install 9.0 RC2. Install seems to run smoothly, (just one error one copying to Xfree files) goes to setting up network and recognise the onboard NIC, setup users but then when displaying the services to choose the one you want to activate on boot there is none.. If you say OK the install them come with an error on mkinitrd.. Anyone out there have tried an install on same motherboard/processor.. regards Bernard
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
rowland wrote on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 05:22:20PM +0100 : On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? No, it was compiled *ON* an i686 *FOR* i586. Blue skies... Todd -- Todd Lyons -- MandrakeSoft, Inc. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. -- Doug Gwyn Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.0-0.3mdk Kernel 2.4.19-16mdk msg78203/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
