[Hornlist] silver plating rationale
Thank you all for your input regarding your experience of sound changes after silver plating your instrument, but I was not interested to hear your experience, as I have my own allready. I was I am still very interested about the rationale behind the sound change as explained, so to know more about the physical process, which changes the sound appearantly. What happen with the instrument when plating ? I know already, that 5 Amp. per 16 square inches (SI) electricity is used for silver plating 2 Amp for gold plating. The technician told me, that the result a bi-metal could cause the effect ??? Harder metal (brass) plus the softer metal surface (silver gold) ??? Off course, the instrument is cleaned before the process: polished ultra sonic degreased. But it was clean before, as I keep my instruments clean. The sound changes did occur with my 23 years old double as well with the brand new Viennese single. Well, brand new means, it has been used just for very few performances to be tested, the surface still shiny. So to make all clear. The old double was maintained perfectly, regularly cleaned inside outside, not dents, no plaques. Just lacquer stripped. It was also a perfect horn when lacquere, but I got into difficulties when moved from the usual place in the pit to the brass side, sitting in front of the timps playing verse the sack below stage or against the timps. Scientists, you are asked for an explanation. Thanks in advance. Prof.Hans Pizka, Pf.1136 D-85541 Kirchheim - Germany Fax: 49 89 903-9414 Phone: 903-9548 home: www.pizka.de email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale
Just a thought - how much heat would be transferred to metal under these plating conditions? Would it be similar to the cryo process - in that the returning to normal room temp that allows the metal to relax further (i.e. the heating up of the brass) and not the freezing of the brass - if the application of the gold/silver includes heating the metal up then this might be relaxing the brass? Simon -- Original Message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Horn List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:00:28 +0200 Subject: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale Reply-To: The Horn List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you all for your input regarding your experience of sound changes after silver plating your instrument, but I was not interested to hear your experience, as I have my own allready. I was I am still very interested about the rationale behind the sound change as explained, so to know more about the physical process, which changes the sound appearantly. What happen with the instrument when plating ? I know already, that 5 Amp. per 16 square inches (SI) electricity is used for silver plating 2 Amp for gold plating. The technician told me, that the result a bi-metal could cause the effect ??? Harder metal (brass) plus the softer metal surface (silver gold) ??? Off course, the instrument is cleaned before the process: polished ultra sonic degreased. But it was clean before, as I keep my instruments clean. The sound changes did occur with my 23 years old double as well with the brand new Viennese single. Well, brand new means, it has been used just for very few performances to be tested, the surface still shiny. So to make all clear. The old double was maintained perfectly, regularly cleaned inside outside, not dents, no plaques. Just lacquer stripped. It was also a perfect horn when lacquere, but I got into difficulties when moved from the usual place in the pit to the brass side, sitting in front of the timps playing verse the sack below stage or against the timps. Scientists, you are asked for an explanation. Thanks in advance. Prof.Hans Pizka, Pf.1136 D-85541 Kirchheim - Germany Fax: 49 89 903-9414 Phone: 903-9548 home: www.pizka.de email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amade%40lineone.net Regards, Simon __ Get Tiscali Broadband From £15:99 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadbandhome/ ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale
Hello Simon, the parts are not spezial heated except for the ultra sonic bath which works at best at temperatures between 75 85 degrees Celsius. The parts (horns) are left in the ultra sonic cleaning device (including the liquid) for between 2,5 to 3,5 minutes. This cannot make any difference at all. The galvanisation process happen at room temperatures. The silver or gold solution is also at room temperatures. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 2:13 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale Just a thought - how much heat would be transferred to metal under these plating conditions? Would it be similar to the cryo process - in that the returning to normal room temp that allows the metal to relax further (i.e. the heating up of the brass) and not the freezing of the brass - if the application of the gold/silver includes heating the metal up then this might be relaxing the brass? Simon -- Original Message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Horn List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:00:28 +0200 Subject: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale Reply-To: The Horn List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you all for your input regarding your experience of sound changes after silver plating your instrument, but I was not interested to hear your experience, as I have my own allready. I was I am still very interested about the rationale behind the sound change as explained, so to know more about the physical process, which changes the sound appearantly. What happen with the instrument when plating ? I know already, that 5 Amp. per 16 square inches (SI) electricity is used for silver plating 2 Amp for gold plating. The technician told me, that the result a bi-metal could cause the effect ??? Harder metal (brass) plus the softer metal surface (silver gold) ??? Off course, the instrument is cleaned before the process: polished ultra sonic degreased. But it was clean before, as I keep my instruments clean. The sound changes did occur with my 23 years old double as well with the brand new Viennese single. Well, brand new means, it has been used just for very few performances to be tested, the surface still shiny. So to make all clear. The old double was maintained perfectly, regularly cleaned inside outside, not dents, no plaques. Just lacquer stripped. It was also a perfect horn when lacquere, but I got into difficulties when moved from the usual place in the pit to the brass side, sitting in front of the timps playing verse the sack below stage or against the timps. Scientists, you are asked for an explanation. Thanks in advance. Prof.Hans Pizka, Pf.1136 D-85541 Kirchheim - Germany Fax: 49 89 903-9414 Phone: 903-9548 home: www.pizka.de email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/amade%40lineone.net Regards, Simon __ Get Tiscali Broadband From £15:99 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadbandhome/ ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale
On Thursday, October 7, 2004, at 07:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scientists, you are asked for an explanation. Well, in the first place, there aren't very many scientists on the horn list. Second, they don't really know what happens. Some think they know and some know they don't know. Musicians just play the horn and observe what they see, hear, and feel. Then they start a religious war about it. Cheers, all, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale
Hello Paul, long time friend, just one competent answer would be enough. It would alse be good, if the readers would read the questions carefully, as they are serious. One might have a friend working in the metallurgy field . By the way, use your search machine search for pizfried.mov Get the surprise. Best wishes Hans -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Mansur Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 3:49 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale On Thursday, October 7, 2004, at 07:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scientists, you are asked for an explanation. Well, in the first place, there aren't very many scientists on the horn list. Second, they don't really know what happens. Some think they know and some know they don't know. Musicians just play the horn and observe what they see, hear, and feel. Then they start a religious war about it. Cheers, all, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Newbie question
I'm new to the horn; without going into a lot of detail, let's just say I'm not new to music. Please forgive me if I talk about notes in concert pitch some of the time - I've got perfect pitch and have never played a transposing instrument before so it's just easier for me. A question: why is the fingering for concert D above middle C (written as A above middle C for horn in F if I've got this right) not given as open (no valves) in the fingering chart in my beginners horn book for B-flat horn? I'm learning pretty much on my own - my son takes lessons, we bought him a new horn, and I'm playing the old one, which is a loaner from a school at which his teacher works. When I asked my son's teacher about how to choose among multipler fingerings, he said the general rule was to blow through as little tubing as possible, so an open fingering is preferable to one with valves held down. Why, then, is concert D not listed as open in the book? The horn I have is a double and I get the B-flat horn with the thumb key. Put another way, I can play the first five notes of a major scale in concert F, starting a fifth below middle C, by alternating open and the first valve - why, if I hold the thumb key down, wouldn't I use the same way to play the first five notes of a concert B-flat scale? The book shows 1 and 2, which also works, of course. Apologies in advance if there is an archive or somewhere else I should be searching for this sort of thing instead of posting to the list. BTW, my book is my son's book, author is Anton Horner, fingering chart is right at the beginning. -S- Steve Freides Ridgewood, NJ ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] List Etiquette
In response to my posting a little while ago to the list, I've received two replies, both privately to me and not to the list - is that the way this list usually works? Most other lists I've been on encourage the conversation to stay on the list (Is it perhaps because I've asked an oft-asked question?) Thanks in advance - and thanks to both people who've replied to me, as well - very helpful. -S- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Newbie question
On Thursday, October 7, 2004, at 11:59 AM, Steve Freides wrote: A question: why is the fingering for concert D above middle C (written as A above middle C for horn in F if I've got this right) not given as open (no valves) in the fingering chart in my beginners horn book for B-flat horn? Hi, and welcome, even if you do think in concert pitch. In a nutshell, there are lots of alternate fingerings all over the horn and you need to know them. The concert D, written a' for horn in F, played on a Bb horn is a fifth harmonic of the open Bb horn. This note is about 14 cents flat because of the acoustic laws in force. It will be beautifully in tune with a concert Bb, f' played on the Bb horn but out of tune with the piano, a consequence of our out-of-tune tuning of a tempered scale. The pitch will be higher, closer to the piano if played with valves 1-2 as that note is a sixth harmonic of the root, concert G. What is extremely important for you is to learn the harmonic series of overtones from a root or pedal tone of each fingering on the horn. You will learn that an open dominant 7 chord is lovely on four open horns, but quite raunchy if forced into equal temperament. One of the great beauties of this beast of an instrument is that you can control pitches with valve choices, with your right hand in the bell, and with your lip, enabling you to bend notes into tune with the instruments you are playing with. All the fifth and tenth harmonics are flat. Sometimes they are the best way to go, and sometimes they must be altered. Don't give up, though. Keep going and you shall be rewarded with some interesting experiences and have fun on the way! (Have you noticed yet, that the 1st line e', eb', and the d' under first line are also flat on the F horn? That is because they are fifth harmonics on the F horn.) CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Robert Routch
Bob Routch (assuming you are not referring to him and not the horn maker Dan? Rauch) does not appear to be a current member of Local 802. There is a listing for a Robert Routch 41 Shady Ln, Dobbs Ferry, NY 10522-2016 (914) 478-4946 in the online phone directory (www.switchboard.com) that I use. May be him. Peter Hirsch ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale
There are many scientists and engineers on the list. You can tell a scientist's answer because it's usually qualified with some reservations. We know we don't know all the answers. That's why most scientists don't make good politicians. So far it seems that the measured data indicate that plating makes no difference. My experience as an engineer prompts me to suggest that there is another factor you have not revealed and that you are not even aware of. It's happened to me many times both as inquirer and as expert. That pizfried.mov on your web site is wonderful! I keep it on my desktop to remind me of the real horn sound. Herb Foster --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Paul, long time friend, just one competent answer would be enough. It would alse be good, if the readers would read the questions carefully, as they are serious. One might have a friend working in the metallurgy field . By the way, use your search machine search for pizfried.mov Get the surprise. Best wishes Hans ... ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Newbie question
Thank you for your detailed reply, Paul. I was into math and science before I was into music, and I'm well acquainted with the overtone series. I was one of the few in my undergraduate music school who actually enjoyed the class - most of my fellow musicians found it torture and I ended up tutoring quite a few of them. My current fascination is with the inharmonicity of the overtone series on piano strings (which is largely, as I understand it, the reason that octaves must be stretched when tuning a piano). I'm enjoying my adventure with the horn. Most of my practice right now consists of just sitting (or standing) around and playing things I know already. The difference between the 2 concert D's is something I did notice but, I confess, I take steps to correct everything I play on the horn without even thinking about it most of the time, and since I'm not playing anything quickly yet, I have plenty of time to listen and correct as I play. I seem to be correcting to even-tempered, A-440 pitch, probably a habit I will have to unlearn at some point but it's just what comes naturally to me now. So far, all my bending is happening by lip or breath - I'm not using a change in hand position because I don't know how to do that. And I frankly don't know whether it's lip, breath, or both that I'm using. Perhaps a slightly longer introduction is in order. I used to teach Theory at Mannes College of Music in NYC (mid-80's to late 90's or so), and have perfect pitch to an almost ridiculous point - in college, someone had a metronome with every pitch from 435 to 445 on it, and I could correctly identify which 'A' was being played, to the exact cycle per second, almost every time, and certainly to within a number or two every time. My skill in this area has probably waned a little over the years but I very much enjoy the ear/brain process that goes into tuning and am looking forward to learning more about all this as I learn more about the horn. I've never had occassion to use anything but even temperament that I'm aware of. Fascinating instrument, this horn. Thanks again to you and to everyone who has responded. -S- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] du] On Behalf Of Paul Mansur Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:52 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Newbie question On Thursday, October 7, 2004, at 11:59 AM, Steve Freides wrote: A question: why is the fingering for concert D above middle C (written as A above middle C for horn in F if I've got this right) not given as open (no valves) in the fingering chart in my beginners horn book for B-flat horn? Hi, and welcome, even if you do think in concert pitch. In a nutshell, there are lots of alternate fingerings all over the horn and you need to know them. The concert D, written a' for horn in F, played on a Bb horn is a fifth harmonic of the open Bb horn. This note is about 14 cents flat because of the acoustic laws in force. It will be beautifully in tune with a concert Bb, f' played on the Bb horn but out of tune with the piano, a consequence of our out-of-tune tuning of a tempered scale. The pitch will be higher, closer to the piano if played with valves 1-2 as that note is a sixth harmonic of the root, concert G. What is extremely important for you is to learn the harmonic series of overtones from a root or pedal tone of each fingering on the horn. You will learn that an open dominant 7 chord is lovely on four open horns, but quite raunchy if forced into equal temperament. One of the great beauties of this beast of an instrument is that you can control pitches with valve choices, with your right hand in the bell, and with your lip, enabling you to bend notes into tune with the instruments you are playing with. All the fifth and tenth harmonics are flat. Sometimes they are the best way to go, and sometimes they must be altered. Don't give up, though. Keep going and you shall be rewarded with some interesting experiences and have fun on the way! (Have you noticed yet, that the 1st line e', eb', and the d' under first line are also flat on the F horn? That is because they are fifth harmonics on the F horn.) CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc omputer.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale
On 10/7/04 9:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, use your search machine search for pizfried.mov Get the surprise. Best wishes Hans Oh my! On a single F horn. I cannot possibly imagine what it takes to be able to do this. Do you give lessons? It is extremely rewarding to be able to play music at such a proficient level. After all these years, I'm still waiting on my reward. I'll be content in the fact that the journey is, in its own way, a just reward. Now, off to practice... -Carl ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] silver plating rationale
I can't find pizfried.mov anywhere - am I doing something wrong or is this something only the wise can see? All the best, Lawrence þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg http://lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Newbie question
In a message dated 10/7/2004 12:45:02 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fascinating instrument, this horn. Thanks again to you and to everyone who has responded. So, Steve with the perfect pitch, which instrument was your first choice earlier in life? I am curious. Forgive me if you already stated that, I tried to read through all of the posts, but I missed that detail that interests me greatly. Incidentally, you are hardly a newbie with the discoveries that you have already made and techniques you are adapting. Dee Anne Proctor Nashville, TN ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Newbie question
Steve, Since I'm in digest mode, someone may have already answered this question before I get to it. But to make a long story short, This concert D you speak of is not available as an in-tune harmonic on the F horn. To play it open would require much adjustment, either with lip or the hand, and would render it very difficult to play with steady pitch and/or good tone. So th 1-2 valve combination, or 3rd valve alone, will work much better. You are correct that this concert D can be played open, but only on the B-Flat horn. But typically, even though less is more with tubing length, the sound quality will not match very well with notes played just below this range on the F horn. Many American players, in concept, play the F side from concert C on down, and the B-flat side from concert C# on up. The difference in length between the F-side C and the B-flat side D played open is substantial. Hence, it will make a much cleaner tone transition on a double horn if a continuum of shortening tubing length is used: Concert pitch: Bb3 F side 1 B3 F side 2 C4 F side 0 C#4Bb side 23 D4 Bb side 12 (or 3) In this manner the tubing length is more graduated and allows the tone colors of the two horns to match better in passages which require working in and around this range. Hope it helps more than hurts, Brent A question: why is the fingering for concert D above middle C (written as A above middle C for horn in F if I've got this right) not given as open (no valves) in the fingering chart in my beginners horn book for B-flat horn? I'm learning pretty much on my own - my son takes lessons, we bought him a new horn, and I'm playing the old one, which is a loaner from a school at which his teacher works. When I asked my son's teacher about how to choose among multipler fingerings, he said the general rule was to blow through as little tubing as possible, so an open fingering is preferable to one with valves held down. Why, then, is concert D not listed as open in the book? The horn I have is a double and I get the B-flat horn with the thumb key. Put another way, I can play the first five notes of a major scale in concert F, starting a fifth below middle C, by alternating open and the first valve - why, if I hold the thumb key down, wouldn't I use the same way to play the first five notes of a concert B-flat scale? The book shows 1 and 2, which also works, of course. -S- Steve Freides Ridgewood, NJ Brent A. Shires Horn Instructor, University of Central Arkansas Studio Phone: 501-450-5768 Cell Phone: 501-472-3350 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.arkansashorn.org ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Newbie question
A question: why is the fingering for concert D above middle C (written as A above middle C for horn in F if I've got this right) not given as open (no valves) in the fingering chart in my beginners horn book for B-flat horn? Two reasons. 1. The various design compromises on an F/Bb double horn mean that this harmonic tends to come out a bit flat on the Bb side, and so using 1-2 fingering is usually better in tune. 2. The same fingering can be used from written Ab to C on both sides of the horn. Regards Jonathan West --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.752 / Virus Database: 503 - Release Date: 03/09/2004 ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Newbie question
-Original Message- On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:54 PM So, Steve with the perfect pitch, which instrument was your first choice earlier in life? I am curious. Forgive me if you already stated that, I tried to read through all of the posts, but I missed that detail that interests me greatly. Incidentally, you are hardly a newbie with the discoveries that you have already made and techniques you are adapting. Well, I did say I wasn't a newbie to music, didn't I? :) I have an interesting (I hope it's interesting to someone else) history with perfect pitch. I grew up playing the guitar (my father's choice for me, I don't remember being asked) and had no clue I had perfect pitch. I did no school music, only private guitar lessons with a jazz teacher who, at my father's insistence, also taught me classical guitar. As part of my agreement to get out of high school a year early, I had to take classes at the local community college and decided to take Intro to music and just loved it, so I decided, not having any particular career/study plans, to enroll as a guitar major there. At the community college, everyone was required to sing in the big chorus. At my audition I was given the starting pitch for the tenor part to some rather involved accompanied chorus piece, which I schlepped through as best I was able. The piece modulated at least once. When we stopped, the conductor said something like, Not bad, Steve, let's try it again from the beginning and, before he could give me my pitch, I sang it, correctly to him. He asked me if I had perfect pitch and I answered, What's that? It took a while before it dawned on me and I used to answer No to the question until people around me started getting irritated with me and said things like, Steve, if you _never_ make any mistakes, I think you have perfect pitch. So I started to work on it because it still didn't come completely naturally to me - I picked a few notes and tried to memorize what they sounded like and, lo and behold, things started to gel. By the time I was a couple of years into music school, I was able to sight read from Modus Novus (20th century, atonal sight-singing exercises). My oldest son, who is 12, still can't produce pitches on demand but he seems to always sing, e.g., band parts he's playing in exactly the right key without thinking about it, so I suspect he's going to be a late-blooming perfect pitch person as well. -S- Dee Anne Proctor Nashville, TN ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc omputer.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] pizfried.mov siegmail.mov
You can find it at www.pizka.de/WrHrPlay5.htm scroll down this page find these two links other goodies. Pizfried is about 2 MB, siegmail is about 800KB but much smaller as picture. Sound is the same. Greetings Prof.Hans Pizka, Pf.1136 D-85541 Kirchheim - Germany Fax: 49 89 903-9414 Phone: 903-9548 home: www.pizka.de email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] 8 Bayreuther Festspieler Hornisten
Paul, go to www.pizka.de/WrHrPlay5.htm scroll down to the link pizfried.mov Clkick on it get the surprise. Greetings Hans -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Rincon Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:20 PM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] 8 Bayreuther Festspieler Hornisten I recently won this CD off an ebay auction and received it today...what an amazing CD it is! 8 Bayreuther Festspiel-Hornisten: G. Seifert, M. Klier, S. Machata, K. Markowski, B. Garbage, G. Fritzsche, K. Schneider, J. Schreder (hns) They are playing Fantasies to: Lohengrin, Rheingold, Siegfried, and Tristan und Isolde. (all by Karl Stiegler with the exception of Rheingold Fantasie by Manfred Klier) I encourage every single horn player to try to obtain this CD, it has some truly wonderful playing (especially the low range) flawless intonation, and beautiful musicality. Yours truly, Paul R. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Sound reflectors
I have used sound Reflectors in my band. They work great, but if you put them too close, you can't hear anything but horn (which isn't really a bad thing). I would put them around 2 to 3 feet away from the bell. I have used a flat surface, rectangular shaped reflector. on the angle, it wasn't straight up, but it wasn't quite 120 degrees either. I think the angle most depends on if you are elevated, like on a stage or in a gym. Thanks Jeremy P.S. I am looking for a C.D. burner that can record at speed (Kind of like a tape player...just on C.D.) Any brand that jumps to mind? - Original Message - From: jlmthompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Sound reflectors Sound reflectors...from those who have used and/or experience with them.do they work? Is it best if it's a round or square surface. a flat surface, slightly concave, slightly convex, multi angular like a shell or? What percentage if anyone knows does it enhance or project the volume of the sound compared to without one? Where is the best placement (I know behind the horn and in front of the trumpets :) and at what angle inclination works best? Thanks, Jim ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jeremy%40kustomkaps.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Christmas music for voice, horn and piano
Hello, I was wondering if anyone can recommend any interesting good quality pieces of a Christmassy nature for Horn, Voice and piano. I see there is a Christmas Carol by a certain I. Storfer in Mr. Köbls catalogue. Does anyone know if this is a nice piece? And what kind of style? Thank you all in advance and sorry for mentioning Christmas in October already. (The chocolate Father Christmasses are already in the shops here) Compliments of the Season, Benno ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] List Etiquette
The subject of fingering is one of those subjects that some of the pros feel strongly that they are the only ones qualified to answer definitively. From my own experience, just about every horn is different with regard to permissable fingerings. My main double allows almost any remotely conceivable fingering to be used in tune. I routinely use open fingerings on both low and high A. If I'm dropping to the F horn, 1/2 brings extra tubing in to transition the Bb to F smoothly. If I'm going fast, open A works great. Mozart 3, 3rd movement, the six note run flows for me if I use open A, then open F and G 1st valve to finish. The following triplets, depending on the horn, I often play all on the Bb, or just switch to Bb to nail the low F with good control. Another habit I've developed for the Mozart is to play first space F 2/3 on the Bb horn up the octave to F on first valve. The object is to control the timbre through the slur so the high octave just seems to appear. The other thing that's fun to experiment with is to find Bb fingerings that work for stopped horn. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] The art of Brass Playing
Hi, listers, (B (BI am looking for a German Translation of the book "The art of Brass (BPlaying" (not "Horn Playing") by P. Farkas now. (B (BPlease inform me if anyone knows about it. (B (BTHNX. (B (B-- (BMaki Nishiuchi (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bhttp://waldhorn.ath.cx/ (B (B (B___ (Bpost: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bunsubscribe or set options at (Bhttp://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OK, a not-so-newbie question
Written A (horn in F) played on Thumb Valve alone tends to be quite flat. Reason? Simple: its position in the overtone series as 5th (a1) and 10th (a2) harmonics. Most good horn players don't play a1 with anything other than T12 as their primary fingering, although many horn players have an alternate fingering for a2 - this usually depends on the horn as much as the player. A1 also tends to sound very euphonium-ish played thumb valve alone. Of course, in ultra-rapid passages, all this is moot! For a2, you need to try T12, T3 and T in front of a tuner and see where they stand. I've found that I like having three different options and will choose depending on the musical context and the key/chord structure. One other minor item to think about - T12/T3 are 12th harmonics whilst T is a 10th harmonic, offering slightly more security. For me, that's not an issue, but I do know some hornists are cautious about playing soft entrances on a2 with the longer horn fingerings. Just some ramblings after a long day. Scott --- Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forgive all the questions from me but I'm delighted to have found you folks. Here's a real-world question for you: I'm playing Deck The Halls, you know, the Christmas Carol, in concert B-flat. It's so very easy, and so very nice sounding, just to hold down the thumb key and do the whole thing that way, but the pitch of the concert D is definitely lower than if I play it 1/2. The reason I'm playing it is because I did up a 2-horn arrangement for me and my son to play. If you're playing just two horns and in the key of concert B-flat, would you choose to use the thumb key and no valves for the concert D or would you use 1/2? I guess the answer would depend, at least in part, on which fingering my sons uses, no? His teacher has given him simple instructions - above written G (concert middle C), use the thumb key. I don't want to confuse my son, so let's say the question just involves two adult, dare I say professional, horn players - would you stick with the B-flat horn and the D straight from the unvalved overtone series or would you choose the even temperament version fingered 1/2? Many thanks in advance. -S- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornhog%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bb horn stopped fingerings
Bill Bamberg said: The other thing that's fun to experiment with is to find Bb fingerings that work for stopped horn. Bill, the only Bb stopped fingerings that work for me start on a1 and go chromatically to c3. The notes below that are badly out of tune. I'd like to caution that these fingerings should be used only in isolated situations. 98% of the time I use the F horn fingerings for stopped horn. I read everything 1/2 step down (horn in E). It's much less confussing, the intonation is better, and one can get that pungent raspy edge to the sound. It's this characteristic F horn sound that most composers are looking for. If you aren't used to playing the F horn fingerings, get a fingering chart out, open Kopprasch Book 1, and play the whole book stopped. By the time you finish, I guarantee you will have improved your stopped horn technique. I admit, some conductors just want more audible sound in the stopped passages and playing stopped on the Bb side can deliver a brighter sound. The Bb fingerings I use, going up chromatically, are: a1 Bb1b1c2c#2d2Eb2e2f2f#2g2Ab2 a2Bb2b2c3 23 31323 12 1 2 0 3 23 12 12 01 2 Gerald Onciul Assistant Principal Horn Edmonton Symphony Professor of Horn University of Alberta CANADA f#2 - 23, g2 - 12, ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/onciul%40shaw.ca ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Christmas music for voice, horn and piano
I've already done a couple of simple arrangements of Christmas Carols for two horns. Being that both I and my wife are singers and we both also play the piano, I'd be delighted to try my hand at arranging a Christmas Carol for you, if that's something you're interested in. No charge, public domain and all that. As I posted earlier, I used to teach Theory at Mannes, so I'm at least somewhat qualified. :) If this is of interest, please specify the voice part, the Carol, and I'll give it a go. If you're looking for something more fancy than a Carol, I'm afraid I can't help. The reason I've arranged Carols already is that some of them, e.g., Deck the Halls, Joy To The World, etc., have relatively limited ranges and lots of scale work, perfect for me to learn on. I managed to get quite a few horn fifths (I figure this group must know what they are) into my Deck The Halls arrangement. If anyone is interested, I can post them as PDF files on a web site I maintain and would gladly do so, just say the word. I use Sibelius to do this and would also gladly provide the Sibelius files to anyone interested. Steve loves Christmas Carols Freides -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] du] On Behalf Of Benno Heinemann Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 6:42 PM To: The Horn List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] Christmas music for voice, horn and piano Hello, I was wondering if anyone can recommend any interesting good quality pieces of a Christmassy nature for Horn, Voice and piano. I see there is a Christmas Carol by a certain I. Storfer in Mr. Köbls catalogue. Does anyone know if this is a nice piece? And what kind of style? Thank you all in advance and sorry for mentioning Christmas in October already. (The chocolate Father Christmasses are already in the shops here) Compliments of the Season, Benno ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc omputer.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bb horn stopped fingerings
Bill Bamberg said: The other thing that's fun to experiment with is to find Bb fingerings that work for stopped horn. The Bb fingerings I use, going up chromatically, for stopped horn, are (let's try this again): a1 - 23, Bb1 - 3, b1 - 13, c2 - 23, c#2 - 12, d2 - 1, Eb2 - 2, e2 - 0, f2 - 3, f#2 - 23, g2 - 12, Ab - 1, a2 - 2, Bb2 - 0, b2 - 1, c3 - 2 Gerald Onciul Assistant Principal Horn Edmonton Symphony Professor of Horn University of Alberta CANADA -- -- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/onciul%40shaw.ca ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/onciul%40shaw.ca ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
