[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi, owner of the company through the EFA Ltd. has signed the €500,000 w/ Department of Physics Univ Bologna
Nobody saw the contract in details. We have just the announcement in the University web site but rumors tell that there is an expiration date. If not activated before 31-1-2012 the contract gets void. 2011/11/26 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Ahsoka Tano ashot...@gmail.com wrote: According to this Italian article, the deed is done. Isn't this proof that there was a buyer of the mega-eCat and that Rossi has the money to sign the contract with UniBol? The entrepreneur Andrea Rossi, owner of the company through the EFA Ltd., Department of Physics and signed the contract http://corrieredibologna.corriere.it/bologna/notizie/cronaca/2011/23-novembre-2011/fusione-fredda-svolta-o-bluff-cat-sotto-esame-ateneo-1902274913518.shtml Our interest is very strong - declares Capiluppi Paul, director of the department - there is much curiosity, but for us it is true only what we can measure. To activate the contract we want to pay (be paid?) the first installment of the contribution, 500 000 euros in two years, that Jones* has committed to provide for all costs. We should be starting soon, in a few weeks - Campari tells Henry, professor of experimental physics and the scientific research with Giuseppe Levi - in summer you could have the first scientific report of the results obtained disclose to scientific journals. Terrible translation *Jones: Not sure how Google Translate caused Rossi to be translated to Jones; Smith, Jones, whatever. Rossi is a common name in Italian and usually translates to Smith, sometime to Jones in Google. It makes no sense but it's not unusual. NOTHING in this acknowledges by the university that they have been paid. Even if they had, the payment could be to shut them up under an NDA while they piddled around with some powders and chemicals doing basic research. Any money they get from Rossi could have come from investor funds and not from a buyer of a megawatt plant. Before you can be sure the E-cat is real, you need to know that the university has received an entire E-cat device to test. It doesn't matter what size. But the university also has to state that the device works as Rossi says when proper calorimetry is performed by one of their specialists in calorimetry. It has to be someone who won't be bamboozled by wet steam. And the tests have to be more than one, long enough to rule out any internal energy storage or generation and repeatable within reasonable limits. Those criteria are exactly as far from being met as they were before that statement was made.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi, owner of the company through the EFA Ltd. has signed the €500,000 w/ Department of Physics Univ Bologna
Am 26.11.2011 01:46, schrieb Ahsoka Tano: According to this Italian article, the deed is done. Isn't this proof that there was a buyer of the mega-eCat and that Rossi has the money to sign the contract with UniBol? The entrepreneur Andrea Rossi, owner of the company through the EFA Ltd., Department of Physics and signed the contract This was said before multiply and it always turned out to be an untrue exaggeration and anticipation. Journalists like to do this in the headline, because this sells better. In the article it is said, To activate the contract we want to pay (be paid?) the first installment of the contribution, 500 000 euros in two years, They say they want the contract, it is not said the contract and pyment was made. Rossi might have signed it, but it is left open if UBO has agreed and signed the contact. To believe this, official confirmation by UBO is needed. To many exaggerations where made in the past. Peter http://corrieredibologna.corriere.it/bologna/notizie/cronaca/2011/23-novembre-2011/fusione-fredda-svolta-o-bluff-cat-sotto-esame-ateneo-1902274913518.shtml *Our interest is very strong - declares Capiluppi Paul, director of the department*- there is much curiosity, but for us it is true only what we can measure. To activate the contract we want to pay (be paid?) the first installment of the contribution, 500 000 euros in two years, that Jones* has committed to provide for all costs.We should be starting soon, in a few weeks - Campari tells Henry, professor of experimental physics and the scientific research with Giuseppe Levi - in summer you could have the first scientific report of the results obtained disclose to scientific journals. *Jones: Not sure how Google Translate caused Rossi to be translated to Jones; Smith, Jones, whatever. Original text: *«Il nostro interesse è fortissimo — dichiara Paolo Capiluppi, direttore del dipartimento*—, c’è molta curiosità, ma per noi è vero solo ciò che possiamo misurare». Per rendere attivo il contratto ci vuole il versamento della prima rata del contributo, 500 mila euro in due anni, che Rossi si è impegnato a dare per sostenere tutti i costi. «Dovremmo partire a breve, tra qualche settimana — confida Enrico Campari, docente di fisica sperimentale e responsabile scientifico della ricerca con Giuseppe Levi —, in estate si potrebbero avere i primi report scientifici dei risultati ottenuti che divulgheremo alle riviste scientifiche».
Re: [Vo]:How to make a clean blackboxtest for thermal overunity.
Am 26.11.2011 01:38, schrieb Mary Yugo: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Its so simple. A Black Box Test must be made like this: Energy in -- [Blackbox] -- Energy out.SNIP Exactly as you say in your details and precisely what Rossi will not allow anyone to do. Thank you. Let me repeat this in even more clarity and shortness: Energy in --Blackbox deviceInventorInventors claims -- Energy out. Anything inside square brackets must be seen as a hypothesis that has to been tested. It must not been anticipated as true, because it is the purpose of the test to confirm the truth. No assumptions or direct or indirect access to anything inside brackets is allowed for the testers. The inventor is allowed to do all sorts of necessary manipulations during the test, but he is not allowed to manipulate anything that happens outside the brackets. Peter
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Here is what happened. Before the test, the e-Cats are empty of H2. They weighted the bottle on the scale. The reading was 13606.4 g. This is consistent with previous weighthings, since the bottle was at 13606.9 g on Oct. 6th. They then pressed the zero button, leaving the bottle on the scale. They let the test run. After the test, they went back to check the scale. The scale was reading -1700 g. Then they went on to fill the report. As you can see the report had been pre-printed. It was to be filled in manually. But the reporting format for the H2 consumption was weight (really mass) before test, weight after test. So they had to add the initial mass and the difference, and that's where they fucked up, adding -1.7 g instead of -1.7 kg. Happens all the time. They even wrote down kg instead of g. Obviously, they didn't have a 13 ton hydrogen bottle, right? Now, does 1.7 kg make sense? For the Oct. 6th demo, the consumption was 1.5 g. The Oct. 28th demo used 321 reactors, so that's 1700/321 = 5.3 g per reactor. Assuming the same 1.5 g per reactor, that leaves 3.8 g. At 2 g/mol, that's 1.9 x 321 = 610 mol of excess H2, which at 55 bar and 300 K will take a volume of 277 l. The modules were arranged in 8 or 10 rows of 5 m (since that is the dimension of the container). That's likely 40 to 50 m of tubing. That tubing with an inner radius of 2.66 - 3 mm. It all makes perfect sense to me. -- Berke Durak
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Sorry I meant diameter. The inner DIAMETER of tubing would have to be 2.66 - 3 mm. -- Berke Durak
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Am 26.11.2011 12:57, schrieb Berke Durak: So they had to add the initial mass and the difference, and that's where they fucked up, adding -1.7 g instead of -1.7 kg. Happens all the time. They even wrote down kg instead of g. Obviously, they didn't have a 13 ton hydrogen bottle, right? Doesnt happen to a Nato Colonel with 30 years of experience. These guys are topfit, far above average. What they delivered is substandard. Peter
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Am 26.11.2011 13:04, schrieb Peter Heckert: Am 26.11.2011 12:57, schrieb Berke Durak: So they had to add the initial mass and the difference, and that's where they fucked up, adding -1.7 g instead of -1.7 kg. Happens all the time. They even wrote down kg instead of g. Obviously, they didn't have a 13 ton hydrogen bottle, right? Doesnt happen to a Nato Colonel with 30 years of experience. These guys are topfit, far above average. What they delivered is substandard. They did this before the test was started and they where not tired. The only reasonable explanation is, they where already drunk or on cocaine or smoked something.
[Vo]:Cold Fusion on the Science Blogs Channel
See please: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/11/cold_fusion_is_it_possible_is.php?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScienceblogsChannelEnvironment+%28ScienceBlogs+Channel+%3A+Environment%29 -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
The question is, how did they measure the energy input? This is not documented. This colonel engineer confuses kg and g. He measures a hydrogen consumtion of 1.7000 kg and dont write down all significant digits. Then he subtracts this from a value that means gramm. but is mistakenly labeled as kg. How can we win a war where precise decisions must be made in seconds? ;-) He makes many handwritten corrections and erasures to ensure he can read his own writing. He has two different ways to write a one: 1 and | in one and the same document. He uses decimal point and decimal , alternating in one and the same document. How can we believe he measured or calculated the electrical energy or the diesel consumption correctly? Possibly he has confused more than that? This is not a Nato colonel engineer with 30 year of experience in a multi-language military organisation. Peter Am 26.11.2011 13:51, schrieb Berke Durak: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Mary Yugomaryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't originate this. I reprint it with minor changes from ecatnews.com. ... Interesting! Let's run the figures for the 1 MW demo. Energy input : 66 kWh - 238 MJ Water claimed to be vaporized : 3716 l Average output temperature : 104.5 C Average input temperature : 18.3 C Energy required to heat 3716 kg of water from 18.3 C to 104.5 C : (104.5 - 18.3) * 4.181e3 * 3716 = 1.34 GJ So: COP = 1.34 GJ / 238 MJ = 5.63 So if he and Fioravanti mistook very wet steam for steam, he only has a cold fusion reactor with a COP of only 5.63, instead of a COP of 9.49 GJ / 238 MJ = 39.9. What a scammer I mean, when I pay $2,000,000 for a cold fusion reactor with a COP of 40, I don't expect to be given a cold fusion reactor with a COP of 5.63. Jeeez!!! That's what you get when you go for cheap Italian knock-off University of Baloney cold fusion reactors.
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
crisply summarizes a lot of the critical evaluation by Cude, Heffner, and Murray... elementary over estimation of excess heat by Rossi in all his demos... thanks to Mary Yugo and the original source 123star -- https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=nm#inbox/133dbc70ac37ba45 123star November 23, 2011 - 7:24 pm | Permalink References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat From: http://ecatnews.com/?p=1392cpage=1#comment-9761 123star November 23, 2011 - 7:24 pm | Permalink On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 5:29 AM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: The question is, how did they measure the energy input? This is not documented. This colonel engineer confuses kg and g. He measures a hydrogen consumtion of 1.7000 kg and dont write down all significant digits. Then he subtracts this from a value that means gramm. but is mistakenly labeled as kg. How can we win a war where precise decisions must be made in seconds? ;-) He makes many handwritten corrections and erasures to ensure he can read his own writing. He has two different ways to write a one: 1 and | in one and the same document. He uses decimal point and decimal , alternating in one and the same document. How can we believe he measured or calculated the electrical energy or the diesel consumption correctly? Possibly he has confused more than that? This is not a Nato colonel engineer with 30 year of experience in a multi-language military organisation. Peter Am 26.11.2011 13:51, schrieb Berke Durak: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Mary Yugomaryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't originate this. I reprint it with minor changes from ecatnews.com. ... Interesting! Let's run the figures for the 1 MW demo. Energy input : 66 kWh - 238 MJ Water claimed to be vaporized : 3716 l Average output temperature : 104.5 C Average input temperature : 18.3 C Energy required to heat 3716 kg of water from 18.3 C to 104.5 C : (104.5 - 18.3) * 4.181e3 * 3716 = 1.34 GJ So: COP = 1.34 GJ / 238 MJ = 5.63 So if he and Fioravanti mistook very wet steam for steam, he only has a cold fusion reactor with a COP of only 5.63, instead of a COP of 9.49 GJ / 238 MJ = 39.9. What a scammer I mean, when I pay $2,000,000 for a cold fusion reactor with a COP of 40, I don't expect to be given a cold fusion reactor with a COP of 5.63. Jeeez!!! That's what you get when you go for cheap Italian knock-off University of Baloney cold fusion reactors.
Re: [Vo]:bit.ly/cold-fusion
Thanks, Peter, fantastic citation [begin citation] Coherence of particles by radio waves is an obscure phenomenon that is not well understood even today. Recent experiments with particle coherers seem to have confirmed the hypothesis that the particles cohere by a micro-weld phenomenon caused by radio frequencyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Frequencyelectricity flowing across the small contact area between particles. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherer#cite_note-0 The underlying principle of so-called imperfect contact coherers is also not well understood, but may involve a kind of tunnelinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnellingof charge carriers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_carrier across an imperfect junction between conductors. [end citation] In a previoous job, I carried out the synthesis of silver nanocrystals of different sizes and with specific surface plasmon light absorption spectra, following some surprising literature. Starting with spherical seeds of less than 5 nm diameter, readily formed chemically, one could obtain thin (5-10 nm thick) platelets of triangular shape and different size simply by exposing for some time (1-7 days) the suspension in water to light of different wavelength. The literature had used both led's of specific wavelength and colored filters, we made our own filters and obtained the same results. Thermal tests never led to any platelet formation, although they could be formed thermally with different starting materials. But the photochemical route was very attractive. We followed through pushing the process (by changing the irradiation light spectrum) until the silver nanoplatelets were actually about one micron long and absorbed in the NIR. Got a couple of application patents using those. Anyway, my point is that there was no theory in the literature as to why the platelets formed that way (and we were not paid to explore theory). The electromagnetic effect you are mentioning might be it, finally pushing everything in the shape that provides the resonant plasmon. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.dewrote: Am 25.11.2011 13:54, schrieb Marcello Vitale: Very interesting, indeed. Thank you, Peter. Four observations a) MgH2 is more stable than NiHn: Mg might simply suck up the hydrogen b) nonetheless, it is on the surface of Ni powder particles that H2 breaks up more easily, hence the rationale to use Ni as catalyst for MgH formation and decomposition c) there do not seem to be the cycling and pulsations, electrochemical, mechanical or electromagnetic, which appear to be needed in order to start the anomalous heat generation itself. d) even if some anomalous heat had been generated, how to sort it out from just a faster/more complete hydride formation, anotehr exothermic process? If cold fusion had happened, in small quantity, it would have been taken as a funky quirk. I dont think so. In laboratory experiments they will probably measure it accurately. Thermal hysteris is an important parameter for a solidstate hydrogen storage device. The larger the hysteresis, the larger the energetic loss and of course they try to minimize it. If they get negative hysteresis, they have probably found cold fusion ;-). Also I believe they examines the crystal structures with advanced methods like x-rays, and when there are transmutation elements, they should discover them. Here is a link to the munich airport hydrogen project: http://ieahia.org/pdfs/munich_airport.pdf They use a gigantic metalpowder-in pipes arrangement to store 2000 m^3 hydrogen at 250 bar pressure. To unload the hydrogen, heat must be applied. It is clear, they dont build something like this without previous research. This is working for years and succesfully. Again, put Rossis catalyzer inside. ;-) So, if a catalyzer exists it must be something extraordinary, that nobody tried before. For example high frequency. RF can make the joints of metal particles melt or pull them together until electrons tunnel through the barriers. This effect was used in ealy days of wireless telegraphy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherer [begin citation] Coherence of particles by radio waves is an obscure phenomenon that is not well understood even today. Recent experiments with particle coherers seem to have confirmed the hypothesis that the particles cohere by a micro-weld phenomenon caused by radio frequencyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Frequencyelectricity flowing across the small contact area between particles. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherer#cite_note-0 The underlying principle of so-called imperfect contact coherers is also not well understood, but may involve a kind of tunnelinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnellingof charge carriers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_carrier across an imperfect junction between conductors. [end citation] On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:14 PM,
Re: [Vo]:Kullander Nov. 23 lecture slides (mostly in Swedish)
a legitimate theoretical speculation and possibly valid lines of actual evidence are given by astrophysicist Robert Foot and a few collaborators for about a decade for mirror matter, which interacts fully with itself, but only about a part in a million with ordinary matter for electromagnetic forces (chemistry, molecular binding), and normally via gravity -- so a hunk could be found on the surface of the Earth, while interacting with the vacuum of the solar system at about 10 deg K -- so to us it would be invisible, heavy, and forever cold -- you could hitch a Sterling engine to it, running from 300 deg K on Earth to the 10 deg K sink, generating power until (joke) the entire Earth is cooled to 10 deg K -- perfectly possible physics -- search Google...
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi, owner of the company through the EFA Ltd. has signed the €500,000 w/ Department of Physics Univ Bologna
Sorry, the article does not yet say that the money has been paid. The contract is still the same we know about. On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 1:46 AM, Ahsoka Tano ashot...@gmail.com wrote: ** According to this Italian article, the deed is done. Isn't this proof that there was a buyer of the mega-eCat and that Rossi has the money to sign the contract with UniBol? The entrepreneur Andrea Rossi, owner of the company through the EFA Ltd., Department of Physics and signed the contract http://corrieredibologna.corriere.it/bologna/notizie/cronaca/2011/23-novembre-2011/fusione-fredda-svolta-o-bluff-cat-sotto-esame-ateneo-1902274913518.shtml *Our interest is very strong - declares Capiluppi Paul, director of the department* - there is much curiosity, but for us it is true only what we can measure. To activate the contract we want to pay (be paid?) the first installment of the contribution, 500 000 euros in two years, that Jones* has committed to provide for all costs. We should be starting soon, in a few weeks - Campari tells Henry, professor of experimental physics and the scientific research with Giuseppe Levi - in summer you could have the first scientific report of the results obtained disclose to scientific journals. *Jones: Not sure how Google Translate caused Rossi to be translated to Jones; Smith, Jones, whatever. Original text: *«Il nostro interesse è fortissimo — dichiara Paolo Capiluppi, direttore del dipartimento *—, c’è molta curiosità, ma per noi è vero solo ciò che possiamo misurare». Per rendere attivo il contratto ci vuole il versamento della prima rata del contributo, 500 mila euro in due anni, che Rossi si è impegnato a dare per sostenere tutti i costi. «Dovremmo partire a breve, tra qualche settimana — confida Enrico Campari, docente di fisica sperimentale e responsabile scientifico della ricerca con Giuseppe Levi —, in estate si potrebbero avere i primi report scientifici dei risultati ottenuti che divulgheremo alle riviste scientifiche».
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
I do not doubt that Rossi's device works, but I have a lot of doubts over his power output because his demos are so useless. He is claiming 100kW/kg output levels, while Miley appears to be closer to 10kW/kg levels (IIRC 30g 200W). But given the 8:1 steam to water ratio enthalpy ratio it is quite conceivable that Rossi is much lower than he states and so closer to what Miley (and other researchers?) are getting. It would be nice to have reliable results to resolve this. But I suspect we are still some time off from having accurate assessments publically released. Power output will have a significant impact on economics of different applications - for example 100kW/kg means Concorde like aircraft that use 6 times the power of conventional commercial jets and can get you anywhere on the planet cheaply in 8 hours at 30% of current costs, Miley like results mean re-engined conventional jet aircraft that still take 24 hours and cost 70% of current prices. On 26 November 2011 12:51, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't originate this. I reprint it with minor changes from ecatnews.com. ... Interesting! Let's run the figures for the 1 MW demo. Energy input : 66 kWh - 238 MJ Water claimed to be vaporized : 3716 l Average output temperature : 104.5 C Average input temperature : 18.3 C Energy required to heat 3716 kg of water from 18.3 C to 104.5 C : (104.5 - 18.3) * 4.181e3 * 3716 = 1.34 GJ So: COP = 1.34 GJ / 238 MJ = 5.63 So if he and Fioravanti mistook very wet steam for steam, he only has a cold fusion reactor with a COP of only 5.63, instead of a COP of 9.49 GJ / 238 MJ = 39.9. What a scammer I mean, when I pay $2,000,000 for a cold fusion reactor with a COP of 40, I don't expect to be given a cold fusion reactor with a COP of 5.63. Jeeez!!! That's what you get when you go for cheap Italian knock-off University of Baloney cold fusion reactors. -- Berke Durak
[Vo]:Large Temperature Increase of Core Not Required for 6 to 1 Output Delta
It has been suggested that it is not possible to obtain the rapid increase in output power measured for the Rossi ECATs. The reason stated is that the core would have to have its temperature multiplied by a factor of 6 or so to deliver the needed power. This belief is based upon a misunderstanding of the heat equation and its solutions. You can find a reference to this information in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_equation. This is a partial differential equation that is not very easy to understand but ties the distribution of heat within a system to time. One look at this complexity and you can see why it is confusing. It is correct to assume that the temperature gradient immediately feeding the ECAT water storage must be increased by the 6 to 1(or whatever you need) ratio. I doubt that anyone would argue that point, but that does not imply that this gradient must exist all the way to the ECAT core modules. Maybe some of the Vortex members are thinking about the stead state temperature distribution. In that case, the temperature gradient would become smoother and follow a curve based upon the heat flow through the area encountered along its flow path. In the steady state solution we would expect the core temperature to in fact rise by the ratio of the output powers as has been argued since it is the source of all of the heat energy. The ECAT core temperature is not required to operate under steady state conditions until a very long period of time has elapsed. This long period is not being allowed by definition due to the rapid power change observations argued against. Consider this thought experiment. The cores of one ECAT are heated within 5 minutes to a high temperature by the electrical heating element leading to the generation of LENR heat. The cores are now at a temperature that allows the total output to be 9 kW where they continue to supply energy into the heat sink. The water initially knows nothing of this power since a significant delay exists as the heat makes it way toward the water. The gradient of temperature facing the water is zero until the leading edge of the heat wave reaches that position in space. Since the gradient is zero, no power is being delivered to the water. Next, time elapses and the heat begins to flow into the water and increase its temperature. A gradient is now established to allow the heat flow and this gradient rapidly increases as the power delivered to the water increases. The gradient began at zero and will increase as needed to allow the heat flow required. There is no reason why this gradient change is restricted to a value as low as 6 to 1, and I would expect it to be far larger until the system stabilizes. Horace Heffner has been generating a finite element model of the heat flow within his assumed ECAT scam device and will be able to demonstrate this effect to anyone who does not understand the mechanisms involved. I recall a time domain chart he published to vortex that shows his expected gradient of temperatures along the heat sink. This graph should be used as reference. Horace, please take a small amount of your time to explain the effect that I refer to since you have the finite element model that reveals the solution to the partial differential equation. A demonstration is worth a million words in this case. Dave
Re: [Vo]:Large Temperature Increase of Core Not Required for 6 to 1 Output Delta
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:11 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Horace, please take a small amount of your time to explain the effect Horace hibernates this time of year. It might be a while before he sees this. You might try sending a message to him directly: hheff...@mtaonline.net T
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: I do not doubt that Rossi's device works, but I have a lot of doubts over his power output because his demos are so useless. He is claiming 100kW/kg output levels, while Miley appears to be closer to 10kW/kg levels (IIRC 30g 200W). But given the 8:1 steam to water ratio enthalpy ratio it is quite conceivable that Rossi is much lower than he states and so closer to what Miley (and other researchers?) are getting. I doubt that is true, but even if it is, it makes no difference. These are crude prototypes. With commercially manufactured devices I am sure they will be able to achieve any input:output ratio they want, such as 1:100. This is not an issue now and it never has been. No one has ever tried to optimize this ratio, because that is just a matter of engineering. The hard part has been to control the reaction. Once you do that, you can achieve any ratio and any temperature you want, up to the limits of the materials. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Doesnt happen to a Nato Colonel with 30 years of experience. These guys are topfit, far above average. Are you seriously claiming that a category of people doesn't make mistakes? -- Berke Durak
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: The question is, how did they measure the energy input? This is not documented. Were you being sarcastic? I'll assume you weren't. To answer your first question, it is not documented but it seems quite obvious. The power was entirely supplied by a diesel generator. The diesel generator had a fuel level meter or an electricity meter built-in, or maybe they connected an electricity meter between the diesel generator and the equipment. They obviously took readings before and after and wrote down the difference. What else? Do you imagine that Fioravanti took a hard look at the genset, then said, Well I guess that's about 66 kWh and wrote that down? This colonel engineer confuses kg and g. False. The correct sentence would be : This coloned engineer CONFUSED kg and g. That is, he made a mistake in the report. You can't claim with a straight face that he doesn't know a gram from a kilogram. He measures a hydrogen consumtion of 1.7000 kg and dont write down all significant digits. That's part of the same fuck-up. Then he subtracts this from a value that means gramm. but is mistakenly labeled as kg. That's part of the same fuck-up. How can we win a war where precise decisions must be made in seconds? ;-) What? He makes many handwritten corrections and erasures to ensure he can read his own writing. Is this sarcasm? He has two different ways to write a one: 1 and | in one and the same document. That remark is completely silly. Or are you one of these people who believe in graphology? He uses decimal point and decimal , alternating in one and the same document. That would tend to indicate that we was often reading or writing technical documents in different languages with different conventions. How can we believe he measured or calculated the electrical energy or the diesel consumption correctly? How can we take what you say seriously when you come up with arguments like this instead of discussing the core issue? Possibly he has confused more than that? Yeah, maybe he was just some random drunken hobo off the streets of Bologna calling himself colonel. This is not a Nato colonel engineer with 30 year of experience in a multi-language military organisation. You must be joking. Maybe Fioravanti is one of these rare engineers who is not an obsessive-compulsive robot with Asperger syndrome? Anyway, let me resume the content of this topic. (a) MY gratuitously asserts that the reason for the guaranteed COP of 7 statement is that Rossi, in her belief, thinks that he can get away claiming that he sells million-dollar devices that vaporize water completely where, in fact, they barely vaporize it. (b) I reply by showing that, even if Rossi's device didn't vaporize a gram of water during the 1 MW demo, it would still have a COP of 40 because it takes more than a fucking gigajoule to heat 4 tons of water by 90 degrees, and the energy input was less than 250 MJ. (c) PH finds it appropriate to cast a baseless doubt on the measurement of the input energy and then goes on a completely wild tangent by nit picking on Fioravanti's handwriting. But it's so comical (NATO colonels don't make mistakes) that I have probablly missed some sarcasm. I'd be happier when you guys come up with real arguments and not silly I don't like his handwriting! arguments. -- Berke Durak
RE: [Vo]:Overview of (Ahern) Vibronic Energy Technologies Approach
I am not sure if it's relevant or what it's worth, but in the following paper - Anomalous Nuclear Phenomena Assocoated with Ultrafast Processes www.iscmns.org/asti06/jianglaoshi2.pdf - the authors speculate on whether the concept of torsion field contributes to the LENR phenomena they observed in their experiments. This is an absolutely fascinating hypothesis, Lou - yet it so intricately complex that it would be a surprise if more than a few multi-disciplinary thinkers will invest the time and study necessary to grasp the ultimate significance. DNA, proteins, amino acids - all of the important molecules of life are chiral. Human proteins are exclusively built from L-amino acids but the origin of this asymmetry is mysterious. Nickel, unlike iron is not terribly important in higher level biochemistry (and can be toxic) - but in the earliest stages of evolution, nickel could have actually been the sine qua non and cause of L-chirality - in other words: No nickel, no chirality, no DNA, no humans. Even more fascinating is that there could be a relatively ignored QM feature (quantum isospin, perhaps) that relates both to chirality and to a propensity for what has been thought to be a strange variety of beta decay... thus tying biogenesis and free energy together in a most surprising way. This could be closer to a new kind of nuclear reaction than a subset of beta decay, in it that it is characterized by such low levels of radioactivity that it seems to be non-nuclear and it could even be reversible. That might imply a propensity to attract positronium (in the sense of Wheeler's quantum foam) instead of an inherent instability. The result is that decay is an external feature of Ni-64 being able to interact with the epo field. That could end up being a fundamental part of an emerging Nanomagnetism hypothesis, but it is really pico, not nano. Among the oddities of Ni nuclear stability - nickel-62 is the most stable nucleus in the periodic table ... yet - get this - it is NOT even close to being the most abundant nickel isotope. Quantum Foam... Makes Me Roam... -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com BTW (off topic), nickel might have more secrets - perhaps it explains the paradoxical imbalance of L/R-chirality of amino acids. See -The role of nickel(II) on the homochirality of amino acids in living systems http://elearning.hebron.edu/EPortfolio/artefact/file/download.php?file=5200; view=245 Could there be some still undiscovered nuclear quantum%2
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: The power was entirely supplied by a diesel generator. The diesel generator had a fuel level meter or an electricity meter built-in . . . They used the built in meters in the generator (genset). He uses decimal point and decimal , alternating in one and the same document. That would tend to indicate that we was often reading or writing technical documents in different languages with different conventions. I have heard they wrote the document in Italian and then translated it. People often make mistakes like this. In the document by Brattain you can see he made a correction on the second page and then crossed it out, where it says 5.4 x 10^-7 Watts: http://www.porticus.org/bell/pdf/brattain_lab_notebook.pdf There are several other words crossed out. By the logic of the skeptics here, this proves that transistors do not exist. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: I'd be happier when you guys come up with real arguments and not silly I don't like his handwriting! arguments. Sure. The argument against the October 28 test is that the customer is anonymous and who Fioravanti works for is also unknown. If the customer is, as I suspect, a fabrication, then Fioravanti works for Rossi as a part of a scam. Or, it's possible that Fioravanti has no idea about the potential errors involved in measuring enthalpy by using only the heat of vaporization of water. Frankly, I find that unlikely but it is possible that if Rossi could scam Kullander, Essen and Lewans, he could also scam Fioravanti with the same ruse. Of course, that would assume there is a customer which I find very doubtful, admittedly, so far, on subjective information mainly. Nobody who was able to report about it saw the meter readings. When you cite energy in and energy out, you are simply quoting Rossi and Fioravanti. For those who think this was a legitimate demonstration, I'd like to ask you why the invited guests, consisting of reporters and scientists, were never shown any of the measurements? You don't suppose a remote display of all relevant data, including the generator output during the test, could have been shown to them? Exactly why were they there other than to lend some wobbly credibility to Rossi's claim?
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
Am 26.11.2011 19:49, schrieb Jed Rothwell: I have heard they wrote the document in Italian and then translated it. People often make mistakes like this. In the document by Brattain you can see he made a correction on the second page and then crossed it out, where it says 5.4 x 10^-7 Watts: http://www.porticus.org/bell/pdf/brattain_lab_notebook.pdf There are several other words crossed out. By the logic of the skeptics here, this proves that transistors do not exist. No. I know the difference between a notepad and an undersigned document. BTW, this is why I make my own notes with a pencil and use an eraser. I use it quite often ;-) Peter
Re: [Vo]:Large Temperature Increase of Core Not Required for 6 to 1 Output Delta
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:11 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Horace hibernates this time of year. Speaking about hibernation, there could be a contest to make the best caption for this image: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2011/11/cold_fusion_is_it_possible_is/Focardi_Rossi_apparatoBN-thumb-500x375-70854.jpeg Best I've seen so far (on the Moletrap forum, by Alsetolokin): I dunno, Andrea, why is it so cold in here? Maybe you should try banging on the pipes -- it sometimes works in my building.
[Vo]:Private showing right after the 1 M test
This is said by the poster, MassimoBolognaItaly, to be a private showing right after the 1 MW test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3nCN_-ZgMw This raises some obvious questions. Who are the people shown in the first few seconds of the video? Is the security guard attempting to protect the guy in back from being filmed? Are these people involved with the purchaser of the 1 MW E-cat? Massimo bologna! Buono solo per un panino? Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Large Temperature Increase of Core Not Required for 6 to 1 Output Delta
Am 26.11.2011 21:15, schrieb Mary Yugo: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:11 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com mailto:dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Horace hibernates this time of year. Speaking about hibernation, there could be a contest to make the best caption for this image: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2011/11/cold_fusion_is_it_possible_is/Focardi_Rossi_apparatoBN-thumb-500x375-70854.jpeg Best I've seen so far (on the Moletrap forum, by Alsetolokin): I dunno, Andrea, why is it so cold in here? Maybe you should try banging on the pipes -- it sometimes works in my building. ;-) attachment: ColdFusion.jpeg
[Vo]:got permission to send
Any Vorts who want a copy of my article in Science and Society winter addition. Write to me I will send pdf. I know Jones will come down on me for saying this, however, it is one of the greatest works in 100 years. Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: There are several other words crossed out. By the logic of the skeptics here, this proves that transistors do not exist. No. I know the difference between a notepad and an undersigned document. That was not a notepad. It was the experiment log. It was an important document, signed by the researchers, and referenced in patent applications and elsewhere to establish priority. As a document it was a lot more important than the Oct. 28 test report. The thing is, even important, history-making documents are often informal, with spelling errors and crossed out words. See, for example, Grant's draft of the surrender terms at Appomattox: http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/civil_war_series/6/sec6.htm (scroll down) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
Berke, they do not have anything else to come up with in their effort to discredit Rossi and his system. It is sad to see them resort to this level of criticism. Dave -Original Message- From: Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:01 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6 On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: The question is, how did they measure the energy input? This is not documented. Were you being sarcastic? I'll assume you weren't. To answer your first question, it is not documented but it seems quite bvious. The power was entirely supplied by a diesel generator. The diesel enerator had a fuel level meter or an electricity meter built-in, or aybe they connected an electricity meter between the diesel generator nd the equipment. They obviously took readings before and after and wrote down the ifference. What else? Do you imagine that Fioravanti took a hard ook at the genset, then said, Well I guess that's about 66 kWh and rote that down? This colonel engineer confuses kg and g. False. The correct sentence would be : This coloned engineer CONFUSED kg and g. That is, he made a mistake in the report. You can't claim with straight face that he doesn't know a gram from a kilogram. He measures a hydrogen consumtion of 1.7000 kg and dont write down all significant digits. That's part of the same fuck-up. Then he subtracts this from a value that means gramm. but is mistakenly labeled as kg. That's part of the same fuck-up. How can we win a war where precise decisions must be made in seconds? ;-) What? He makes many handwritten corrections and erasures to ensure he can read his own writing. Is this sarcasm? He has two different ways to write a one: 1 and | in one and the same document. That remark is completely silly. Or are you one of these people who elieve in graphology? He uses decimal point and decimal , alternating in one and the same document. That would tend to indicate that we was often reading or writing echnical documents in different languages with different conventions. How can we believe he measured or calculated the electrical energy or the diesel consumption correctly? How can we take what you say seriously when you come up with arguments ike this instead of discussing the core issue? Possibly he has confused more than that? Yeah, maybe he was just some random drunken hobo off the streets of ologna calling himself colonel. This is not a Nato colonel engineer with 30 year of experience in a multi-language military organisation. You must be joking. Maybe Fioravanti is one of these rare engineers who is not an bsessive-compulsive robot with Asperger syndrome? Anyway, let me resume the content of this topic. (a) MY gratuitously asserts that the reason for the guaranteed COP of statement is that Rossi, in her belief, thinks that he can get away laiming that he sells million-dollar devices that vaporize water ompletely where, in fact, they barely vaporize it. (b) I reply by showing that, even if Rossi's device didn't vaporize a ram of water during the 1 MW demo, it would still have a COP of 40 ecause it takes more than a fucking gigajoule to heat 4 tons of water y 90 degrees, and the energy input was less than 250 MJ. (c) PH finds it appropriate to cast a baseless doubt on the measurement of the nput energy and then goes on a completely wild tangent by nit picking on ioravanti's handwriting. But it's so comical (NATO colonels don't make istakes) that I have probablly missed some sarcasm. I'd be happier when you guys come up with real arguments and not silly I don't ike his handwriting! arguments. - erke Durak
RE: [Vo]:got permission to send
Hey Frank, Please don't get me wrong. I wish you all the success possible, and I will not be negative towards your hypothesis in any way- if and when if it can be shown to work predicatively. Maybe that is too much to ask. However, the last 100 years does cover a lot of prime territory in scientific advancement, including relativity, QM, string theory, electro-gravity, etc. Are you certain you are not being a little too generous in this self-appraisal, given the paucity of validation ? In fact, I wish that your simple formula did work in a way that was not retrospective and not iffy (with fudge factors many orders of magnitude) and not coincidental - and most of all: had demonstrable predictive power, since it would help with so many things. BTW - to fill us in on the last few years which have pushed you over the top, apparently - have you been able to predict anything previously unknown, based on the megahertz-meter theory ? You mentioned in an earlier post that you had been doing lab work recently - do you have real data that shows how this knowledge has guided you to achieve fabulous results ? If so, please elaborate. That kind of thing would change opinions, and put us kibitzers in their proper groveling places at the feet of the great master. Geeze . if we could somehow merge you and Rossi into one mega-genius, wow, just think of the possibilities? Jones From: fznidar...@aol.com Any Vorts who want a copy of my article in Science and Society winter addition. Write to me I will send pdf. I know Jones will come down on me for saying this, however, it is one of the greatest works in 100 years. Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:Large Temperature Increase of Core Not Required for 6 to 1 Output Delta
Horace, I have suggested that your FEA program would be able to demonstrate the time domain operation of the scam ECATs. I assumed that you have device temperature as a function of x,y,z and t so that we can observe the expected operation of the ECATs. Could you confirm that this is true? As you are aware, several of our members are suggesting that the power output is changing far to fast to be real and I am hoping you can tell us what your model predicts. It is much to difficult to solve this type of partial differential equation by gut feelings. If you do not have temperature as a function of x,y,z,t then what does the FEA program calculate? Thanks, Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:32 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Large Temperature Increase of Core Not Required for 6 to 1 Output Delta Am 26.11.2011 21:15, schrieb Mary Yugo: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:11 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Horace hibernates this time of year. Speaking about hibernation, there could be a contest to make the best caption for this image: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2011/11/cold_fusion_is_it_possible_is/Focardi_Rossi_apparatoBN-thumb-500x375-70854.jpeg Best I've seen so far (on the Moletrap forum, by Alsetolokin): I dunno, Andrea, why is it so cold in here? Maybe you should try banging on the pipes -- it sometimes works in my building. ;-)
Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion on the Science Blogs Channel -- Rossi Fooled Defkalion
Links to http://ecatnews.com/?p=1428 which says Rossi fooled defkalion (not his words) and quotes http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516cpage=14#comment-129538 • Hampus November 24th, 2011 at 5:53 AM Hi Rossi When will the experiment in Bologna and Uppsala university start? and his reply http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516cpage=14#comment-129682 • Andrea Rossi November 24th, 2011 at 9:27 AM Dear Hampus: Soon, but remember that such RD will be closed doors made and not public. I repeat: no more public tests will be made. We will make only closed doors RD and tests for our Customers made along the test protocols agreed upon the purchasing contracts. No more information will be released until proper patent protection will be granted. Too many vultures fly around, ready to steal critic info. Look to what is going on around the Balcans: there are clowns saying they have a technology copied from us, actually they have just a moke up, waiting for the piece of info they need to make a real copy. They believed we would have been selling in October the small E-Cats, so announced they would have made a demo in october ( buying a model, disguising it as a copy made by them). But it was just a trap we made. Conclusion: from now on we will be more sealed than ever, and we will be open exclusively with our Customers. To put for sale the small unts we need: 1- safety certification 2- granted patents We are working on both the issues and I think they will be addressed within 1 to 2 years from now. Warm Regards, A.R. - Original Message - See please: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/11/cold_fusion_is_it_possible_is.php?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScienceblogsChannelEnvironment+%28ScienceBlogs+Channel+%3A+Environment%29
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: This colonel engineer confuses kg and g. False. The correct sentence would be : This coloned engineer CONFUSED kg and g. That is, he made a mistake in the report. You can't claim with a straight face that he doesn't know a gram from a kilogram. I expect Heckert does have a straight face. You can tell that he and the others have run out of legitimate arguments when they resort to this kind of nonsense. They have nothing more to say. They have lost the argument. This reminds of an incident in the 2008 election campaign. Obama was exhausted and he accidentally referred to visiting the 57 states. This may have been a random slip of the tongue. Maybe not. I believe Democratic primaries include the 50 states plus the District of Columbia, Americans Overseas, Puerto Rico and four others, so Obama probably had strategy sessions to deal with all 57. Anyway, this led to accusations by opponents that Obama does not know how many states are in the U.S., because he is ignorant. That is absurd; he has many faults but ignorance is not among them. It was clear that these opponents were scrambling to find a reason to attack him, and they were scraping the bottom of the barrel. Those opponents are still harping about Obama's 57-state mistake. You can find references to it all over the Internet. Cold fusion opponents still talk about FP's mistake measuring neutrons in 1989, plus they natter on about many imaginary mistakes they think they have detected over the years. I am sure they will continue to assert that Fioravanti does not know the difference between grams and kilograms for as long as this dispute lasts, until Rossi is either accepted by the mass media, or forgotten. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I am sure they will continue to assert that Fioravanti does not know the difference between grams and kilograms for as long as this dispute lasts, until Rossi is either accepted by the mass media, or forgotten. Perhaps. But I am much concerned to know who Fioravanti works for. I suspect (but of course can't prove) it's Rossi. That issue also may go on until Rossi is accepted or blown out of the water. I don't think he will ever be forgotten. Real or scam, he'll be rembered at least as an interesting illustration of all the things not to do when claiming to have a revolutionary source of energy.
[Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Krivit provides details of the deal Rossi refused from Celani: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/26/rossi-declines-italian-and-u-s-government-testing-offers/ The terms appear extremely reasonable and the cost is very low, especially for someone who just sold a $2 million plant and is sitting on an order for 12 more! Note the time schedule too. This is particularly troubling because it seems so incredibly absurd and inconsistent with everything Rossi has previously said about how many E-cats he's constantly testing for customers :“Rossi answered that my test, among others of very low cost…was too-late because the E-Cat [had been] sold,” Assuming that's a correct quote by and from Celani, my reaction would be: Too late, Mr. Rossi? You mean you don't have any copper E-cats lying around Celani could test? No extra Ottoman modules? How about borrowing one from the production line for a few days-- one intended for the next megawatt plant? Rossi implying that he is plumb out of dem E-cat things is so patently ridiculous that it's one of the more flagrant and obvious lies and contradictions Rossi has perpetrated over the months. It's so obvious it makes me wonder about his mental state when he wrote it. I'm sure someone will explain it and make excuses for Rossi. If it's not a correct quote, I'd expect Celani to deny he wrote or said it and Rossi to correct it.
Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion on the Science Blogs Channel -- Rossi Fooled Defkalion
Yup. This has been noted here, but it is worth pointing out again. Rossi has gone to extremes this time. Or if he is right, Defkalion has to be engaged in a gigantic fraud. I see no middle ground here. No possibility of a misunderstanding. I hope we find out on Monday, when Defkalion says they will release additional information. The last time Rossi made this accusation he later backed off and said he did not really mean it. He said the dispute is about money and not technical after all. It will be harder for him to back off from this attack, and pretend he never said this stuff. It will be difficult for him to back down and accept a reconciliation with Defkalion. I do not think he wants one. They are still being polite to him, so I guess they still hope for one. I sure would not want to deal with Rossi. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Mary wrote: »Krivit provides details of the deal Rossi refused from Celani» Like it is typical for Krivit, he did not provide any details but silly, arrogant and misinformed pseudopsychological speculations that are stated as facts. Krivit has already lost his scientific credibility and ability to objective journalism, I would say that it is wasting of time to refer him. —Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Assuming that's a correct quote by and from Celani, my reaction would be: Too late, Mr. Rossi? You mean you don't have any copper E-cats lying around Celani could test? No extra Ottoman modules? Of course he has them. Don't be silly. He is making more every day. He has said quite clearly, time after time, that he will do not more testing. He has also denounced Celani. He does not want Celani to know anything about the machine. I'm sure someone will explain it and make excuses for Rossi. It is not an excuse but Rossi himself has said exactly what he will and will not do, and why. It is quite clear. He will do no tests. He has no patent and he does not want the competition to believe his machine is real. As McKubre put it, he wants to keep the results ambiguous to avoid competition and the evil eye of the DoE. You may not agree with this strategy but please stop pretending you have never heard of it. Or that it makes no sense. Stop asking people to explain what is obvious and what we have already explained. Perhaps you do not believe this explanation, but it is still tiresome for you to demand we repeat it over and over again. You resemble a 3-year-old who wants to hear the same bedtime story night after night. Take it or leave it, that is the reason. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: That's part of the same fuck-up. Then he subtracts this from a value that means gramm. but is mistakenly labeled as kg. That's part of the same fuck-up. In the 15 or some odd years, I have never seen anyone use this word on this forum. If English is not your first language, you might understand that this in inappropriate for this forum. I invite you to seek a more appropriate phrase: http://thesaurus.com/ After all, sir, there are ladies present. I have copied the list owner so that this might be brought to his attention. And, on behalf of Vortex-l, I apologize to Mary Yugo and any other ladies who might be participating or lurking. T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
I think it is wrong to ask Rossi for a test. If the test is successful he is the only one who wins and if it is not successful, he is the only one who loses. Because he will not reveal the catalyst, science has no advantage from it. Others do credible say they have good results without catalyst and these are more credible persons. This is the route for science. He does not want to do this, and this is his legit right. I have no problem with this. I have problems because this differs abstrusely from that what he promised some time ago. Kullander and Essen have said, their stipulation for a test is that they may publish the results. If not, they will not do a test. They want science results, not business results. Because Rossi does not want publication, this test in Uppsala will not be done this way as Rossi promised it in his forum one or two months ago. He announced a closed circuit massflow calorimetry test in an laboratorium in Upsalla in December this year in his forum. I was ready to believe him. It was apparently all a very unfair poker bluff. He ridiculizes anybody, who trusted his promises and who previously forwarded the good news in good believe. I am ashamed that I ever posted links to this into a serious physics newsgroup. I have learned. I will never again believe anything, if no diamond-clear and -hard facts are presented. Anybody who offers him to do a public test, is accused by him to steal his secret. This is a reason not to ask him anything anymore. He ridiculizes all his serious supporters, e.g. Essen and Kullander and Brian Josephson and Denis Bushnell. Best regards, Peter
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
I wrote: He has said quite clearly, time after time, that he will do not more testing. NO more testing. I seem to make that mistake both typing and with voice input. Scary. Rossi may be a master at indirection at McKubre says, but he could not make himself clearer about this issue. McKubre, I, and many others have offered him access to the best institutions in the world at no cost, including SRI, MIT and Georgia Tech. His response: ABSOLUTELY NOT, I WILL NOT TEST, NEVER, I REFUSE, NO WAY, GO AWAY He means that. His reasons are obvious. I understand his reasons. Mary Yugo has been told those reasons. If she does not believe them, fine, that is noted, we all now know Yugo and Krivit does not believe these reasons. Let us move on and stop repeating that. Also, just because I have explained these reasons that does not mean I agree with the business strategy or that I am making excuses. I understand the strategy but I have recommended other strategies to him. I will grant he is facing a tough situation. Yugo recommended to me that Rossi go to Richard Branson or someone like that. In other words, she suggests that Rossi should hand over everything he has to ruthless people who have more money than God, and who will instantly rob him blind and leave him with nothing -- because he has no patent. He should hope that these people will cease doing the kinds of things they have done all their lives, and which have brought them success and massive wealth. That is not a good business strategy. Rossi needs to keep people like Branson in the dark for as long as possible, until he can get a patent. Even I agree with him on that. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:bit.ly/cold-fusion
All, Thanks for your input, I updated the paper to incorporate most of your comments. @Aussie Thanks; @Peter I maintain that Rossi forced the current big breakthrough, whether it is just an additive or not. I agree with you that it is fair to mention Piantelli and Focardi as founders and completely revised that section to include it. @Rich I believe I did pay a fair amount of attention to the critics. I summarized all point is the paragraph What the critics say and more in the paragraph about Rossi. I think the critique you summarize is equally valid for super-conduction. Any paper in professional literature can be found to lack of common sense on some points and short of some additional measurement that could have been done on others, once scrutinized by an army of skeptics. However, the sum of the work done by many independent laboratories using a variety of different approaches shows, without doubt, a pattern that is difficult to reject as pathological science. Small government funding for further investigation is well warranted. No point to criticize something that doesn't exist, if you don't like it, ignore it. But I do like your contributions Rich:-) @Alain I feel as if I missed something, about CF or about humanity - Exactly! What is going on? I feel like Truman in one of your human systems experiments ;-) @Robin I was a bit overly optimistic with the energy density, corrected it. 3 cubic mile oil - equivalents is our energy consumption, this includes coal and uranium (and renewables). 1 CMO is oil alone. I corrected it anyway, no point overstating that. Thanks for pointing this out, it's not worth getting caught on. Some (early version of?) H-bombs use multiple fission bombs, not all, and maybe none of the modern ones. It doesn't really matter, I feel like I have to underline the dirtiness of this business anyway. Intriguing in this regard I find the new studies that point out that there is very little evidence of the fusion part of these bombs contributing significantly to the power. Intriguing because the inventor of the H-bomb is a prominent cold-fusion skeptic, citing the lack of evidence... Hydrogen atoms do not repel each other. Naked protons repel each other. That's why hot fusion is so difficult - they insist on using naked protons. - I agree. For sake of simplicity I skipped over it. And technically it isn't wrong. Atoms attract at some length scales, but not at all. That's why hydrogen does form molecules but doesn't fuse just like that. I don't like the emphasis some people put on the stripping off of electrons, as if that's a big deal in the fusion process, as if that's hard, as if that gets you close to fusion itself. The sentence no one claims to know,... is wrong in itself, obviously. Of course there are many people claiming all sorts of stuff. The next sentence basically says so too. That cold fusion actually isn't fusion is a small step, I think. After one accepts that something happens that we don't understand why it's a small step to accept that something happens that is unknown all together. I still have to learn more about the Hydrino theory, a simple introduction to Hydrino's would be appreciated ;-). Thanks for all the style corrections. Bastiaan. bit.ly/cold-fusion On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Marcello Vitale mvit...@ucsbalum.net wrote: Thanks, Peter, fantastic citation [begin citation] Coherence of particles by radio waves is an obscure phenomenon that is not well understood even today. Recent experiments with particle coherers seem to have confirmed the hypothesis that the particles cohere by a micro-weld phenomenon caused by radio frequency electricity flowing across the small contact area between particles.[1] The underlying principle of so-called imperfect contact coherers is also not well understood, but may involve a kind of tunneling of charge carriers across an imperfect junction between conductors. [end citation] In a previoous job, I carried out the synthesis of silver nanocrystals of different sizes and with specific surface plasmon light absorption spectra, following some surprising literature. Starting with spherical seeds of less than 5 nm diameter, readily formed chemically, one could obtain thin (5-10 nm thick) platelets of triangular shape and different size simply by exposing for some time (1-7 days) the suspension in water to light of different wavelength. The literature had used both led's of specific wavelength and colored filters, we made our own filters and obtained the same results. Thermal tests never led to any platelet formation, although they could be formed thermally with different starting materials. But the photochemical route was very attractive. We followed through pushing the process (by changing the irradiation light spectrum) until the silver nanoplatelets were actually about one micron long and absorbed in the NIR. Got a couple of application patents using those. Anyway, my point is that
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Kullander and Essen have said, their stipulation for a test is that they may publish the results. If not, they will not do a test. That's good. I am glad they said that. It means he will cancel the test, but I agree with Heckert that a university should not do closed, secret tests. Anybody who offers him to do a public test, is accused by him to steal his secret. This is a reason not to ask him anything anymore. He ridiculizes all his serious supporters, e.g. Essen and Kullander and Brian Josephson and Denis Bushnell. [You mean he ridicules.] I do not think he is ridiculing these people. I think he is making use of them for his own purposes. He accepts their help. He accepts anyone's help. But he gives nothing in return. His goal is to succeed commercially. To make money, in other words. This is an honorable goal. He will only do things that contribute to this goal. Because he has no patent and he cannot easily get one, and because he trusts no one, he must use convoluted, unconventional methods. If he succeeds he will give humanity a greater gift than any inventor in history, so we will have nothing to complain about. If he fails, he will hurt himself more than anyone else. I think his secrets are bound to come out sooner or later. In the end, we will probably have this technology. I hope that Defkalion has it. This may hurt Rossi. I would hate to see him hurt, but if that is what it takes to bring this to fruition . . . Rossi deserves billions of dollars, if that is what he wants. Our economic system rewards the people who made Facebook with billions. Surely he deserves this too. Facebook is a minor incremental improvement to technology invented by Uncle Sam (the Internet). I wish there were some way to assure that he will get billions. The business strategies suggested by Mary Yugo and some others skeptics would only guarantee that he ends up penniless in the gutter, or -- like Tesla -- destitute and living in a hotel with a few crumbs tossed to him by the people who benefited from his discoveries. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 14:43 -0800, Mary Yugo wrote: I'm sure someone will explain it and make excuses for Rossi. If it's not a correct quote, I'd expect Celani to deny he wrote or said it and Rossi to correct it. What would be the advantage to Rossi if he provided a conclusive test? He's already sold 13 of these things and plans to deliver in them in 3 months. If he really has orders backed up for these, then he could probably make a couple hundred million dollars by the time people realize that his device works. At that point, isn't there a good chance that his progress may be significantly stifled if some nuclear regulatory agency shuts him down? Before they tested his device and concluded that it was safe enough to build, might this not be a couple of years? When the world realizes this thing is real, then there is going to be such a clamor for it that his intellectual property may seriously be threatened. There will be knock-offs from third world countries, and I'm not even sure that Europe and America would give him a patent. They are so desperate for a solution to their oil problems that they might just declare his work too valuable to patent. When Rossi was ready to sell his product, he needed some attention to attract customers. Now, he has those customers, and I think that conclusive proof that his device works, is the last thing he wants at this time. On another note: I went over to 116 S. River Rd, in Bedford, NH, yesterday. There is a small business park there with about 15 companies listed, but no Leonardo Corporation is in the directory, and it doesn't appear to be a place where any kind of construction could be taking place. So if the Leonardo Corporation is there, then they are using it only as a small private office. So I wonder where Rossi is building these 1 MW units? There was a company listed as 4D Technologies, and this struck me as something that I remember hearing somewhere. Has anyone else heard of this company? Craig Haynie
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Am 27.11.2011 00:35, schrieb Jed Rothwell: If he succeeds he will give humanity a greater gift than any inventor in history, so we will have nothing to complain about. He will give to humanity a large fangroup and legends that will grow over time If he fails, he will hurt himself more than anyone else. I think his secrets are bound to come out sooner or later. He will not fail. Remember Keely. He did it his life long and when others started to ignore him, he found a rich widow who supported him until his death. He made a lot of money and destroyed all demonstration models after his demonstrations. These few things that where found after his death had hidden pneumatic tubes inside. Still today Keely has a community of strong believers. Most people learn never. I have learned. If I support this I will be disappointed and violated at the end. No support for him anymore. If he wants proof he must do it himself, this must be easy if his claims are true. Best regards, Peter
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.comwrote: What would be the advantage to Rossi if he provided a conclusive test? The advantage would be that people would believe him. If he did not want to be believed, why has he gone through all the demonstrations he has done thus far with invited guests including press and scientists? Jed thinks big corporations or Richard Branson types would rip off Rossi. I doubt it. First, they would not have to in order to make a fortune. Second, if Rossi is such a genius, they would need his cooperation. They would also need him not to go to potential competitors. And Rossi could begin with a big law firm and a contingency contract to protect his interest. If I were him, I wouldn't hide anything. I'd make a complete and proper patent application, first get a huge law firm to help me and second enlist a huge patron to fund giant expansion. I'd end up bigger than GM and GE. This isn't the Dark Ages any more. Industrialists cooperate with inventors when it's to their benefit. Ripoffs are far from inevitable and in fact rarely happen from big companies when dealing with established inventions and inventors. And when it does happen, the companies often end up losing in court-- losing big. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kearns Jed says in essence that Rossi is shy and afraid to be known because if he's known he'll be ripped off. If so, why has he granted interview after interview and why did he invite the AP. That is not consistent with keeping a low profile -- not one bit. He's already sold 13 of these things and plans to deliver in them in 3 months. So he says. Unfortunately, he provides not the slightest evidence that he in fact has done so. You have to believe him entirely on faith. And well... some of you may also believe he's a convicted felon. Twice or was was it three times? On another note: I went over to 116 S. River Rd, in Bedford, NH, yesterday. There is a small business park there with about 15 companies listed, but no Leonardo Corporation is in the directory, and it doesn't appear to be a place where any kind of construction could be taking place. So if the Leonardo Corporation is there, then they are using it only as a small private office. So I wonder where Rossi is building these 1 MW units? Thanks for doing that. Doesn't NOT finding any trace of any large office belonging to the Leonardo corporation there shake your faith at least one little bit? In fact, nobody has ever seen Rossi's factory-- it would take a bit of a facility to make 12 plants containing (12 * 3 * 50) = 1800 core modules! That's a lot of work. And of course, nobody has seen a hair of any part of the Defkalion plant. Maybe that will change in two days. Maybe not. I predict they will not show anything definitive and completely credible at all.
RE: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton And, on behalf of Vortex-l, I apologize to Mary Yugo and any other ladies who might be participating or lurking. Well, cough-cough ... before yugo overboard g don't forget that screen names are essentially genderless. For years on the hydrino group - a well-known scientist and University Professor - Dr. John Connet used the screen name Nora Barron, for whatever reason. As a skeptic, maybe he thought it would insulate him from fan-boy insults, to some small degree. In the end, the attempted cross-dressing, so-to-speak, did not seem to convince the likes of Mike Carroll (where is he these days) - although Nora/John did make some of the more intelligent comments, as a general rule.
Re: [Vo]:Krivit Reads another report backwards.
Rossi Story: Corriere di Bologna Gets it Wrong http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/26/rossi-story-corriere-di-bologna-gets-it-wrong/ No they didn't. It says it will start within weeks on receipt of the first installment.
Re: [Vo]:got permission to send
Dr Jones, as Rossi would say, NO! Frank Z -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:03 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:got permission to send Hey Frank, Please don’t get mewrong. I wish you all the success possible, and I will not be negative towardsyour hypothesis in any way– if and when if it can be shown to work predicatively.Maybe that is too much to ask. However, the last “100years” does cover a lot of prime territory in scientific advancement, includingrelativity, QM, string theory, electro-gravity, etc. Are you certain you arenot being a little too generous in this self-appraisal, given the paucity ofvalidation ? In fact, I wish that yoursimple formula did work in a way that was “not retrospective” and notiffy (with fudge factors many orders of magnitude) and not coincidental –and most of all: had demonstrable predictive power, since it would help with somany things. BTW – to fill us inon the last few years which have pushed you over the top, apparently - have youbeen able to predict anything previously unknown, based on the megahertz-meter theory? You mentioned in an earlier post that you had been doing lab work recently –do you have real data that shows how this knowledge has guided you to achieve fabulousresults ? If so, please elaborate.That kind of thing would change opinions, and put us kibitzers in their proper grovelingplaces at the feet of the great master. Geeze … if we could somehow mergeyou and Rossi into one mega-genius, wow, just think of the possibilities? Jones From:fznidar...@aol.com Any Vorts who want a copyof my article in Science and Society winter addition. Write to me I will sendpdf. I know Jones will comedown on me for saying this, however, it is one of the greatest works in 100 years. Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 15:55 -0800, Mary Yugo wrote: On another note: I went over to 116 S. River Rd, in Bedford, NH, yesterday. There is a small business park there with about 15 companies listed, but no Leonardo Corporation is in the directory, and it doesn't appear to be a place where any kind of construction could be taking place. So if the Leonardo Corporation is there, then they are using it only as a small private office. So I wonder where Rossi is building these 1 MW units? Thanks for doing that. Doesn't NOT finding any trace of any large office belonging to the Leonardo corporation there shake your faith at least one little bit? Sure -- but I don't care. I am not trying to solve the mystery behind the Rossi' e-cat. :) There's not going to be any conclusive proof from Rossi. If he doesn't have a working model, then there won't be any proof, and if he does have a working model, then there won't be any proof until someone reverse engineers it, which could take a couple of years. So it's pointless to look for proof. If, however, he is selling e-cats to customers, then someone will reverse engineer it, but that will take time, and in the meantime, Rossi will make lots of money. Also note that if Rossi does have working e-cats, then he will do more demonstrations from time to time just to keep people interested in buying them -- but these will not be tests. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
What Mary is describing is the only rational course of action. What Rossi is doing is what a scam artist would do. Giovanni On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.comwrote: What would be the advantage to Rossi if he provided a conclusive test? The advantage would be that people would believe him. If he did not want to be believed, why has he gone through all the demonstrations he has done thus far with invited guests including press and scientists? Jed thinks big corporations or Richard Branson types would rip off Rossi. I doubt it. First, they would not have to in order to make a fortune. Second, if Rossi is such a genius, they would need his cooperation. They would also need him not to go to potential competitors. And Rossi could begin with a big law firm and a contingency contract to protect his interest. If I were him, I wouldn't hide anything. I'd make a complete and proper patent application, first get a huge law firm to help me and second enlist a huge patron to fund giant expansion. I'd end up bigger than GM and GE. This isn't the Dark Ages any more. Industrialists cooperate with inventors when it's to their benefit. Ripoffs are far from inevitable and in fact rarely happen from big companies when dealing with established inventions and inventors. And when it does happen, the companies often end up losing in court-- losing big. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kearns Jed says in essence that Rossi is shy and afraid to be known because if he's known he'll be ripped off. If so, why has he granted interview after interview and why did he invite the AP. That is not consistent with keeping a low profile -- not one bit. He's already sold 13 of these things and plans to deliver in them in 3 months. So he says. Unfortunately, he provides not the slightest evidence that he in fact has done so. You have to believe him entirely on faith. And well... some of you may also believe he's a convicted felon. Twice or was was it three times? On another note: I went over to 116 S. River Rd, in Bedford, NH, yesterday. There is a small business park there with about 15 companies listed, but no Leonardo Corporation is in the directory, and it doesn't appear to be a place where any kind of construction could be taking place. So if the Leonardo Corporation is there, then they are using it only as a small private office. So I wonder where Rossi is building these 1 MW units? Thanks for doing that. Doesn't NOT finding any trace of any large office belonging to the Leonardo corporation there shake your faith at least one little bit? In fact, nobody has ever seen Rossi's factory-- it would take a bit of a facility to make 12 plants containing (12 * 3 * 50) = 1800 core modules! That's a lot of work. And of course, nobody has seen a hair of any part of the Defkalion plant. Maybe that will change in two days. Maybe not. I predict they will not show anything definitive and completely credible at all.
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: For years on the hydrino group - a well-known scientist and University Professor - Dr. John Connet used the screen name Nora Barron, for whatever reason. Yes, I was following the group at that time. And I do remember when his (p)alias was exposed, so to speak. But, as you are aware, this list has degraded significantly and we need to draw the line somewhere. Oh, and I might have used the term lady with a bit of TIC. Also, note the BillB's address. e Ackshully, I really think Mary really is a lady. I have known a few in my time and, as Christoph Waltz pointed out, if the shoe fits . . . which, in this case, it does not. T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: What Mary is describing is the only rational course of action. What Rossi is doing is what a scam artist would do And, in your opinion, how does this scam artist profit from the alleged scam? T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
I didn't say he necessarily is a good scam artist... ; ) he has tried and failed before... G On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: What Mary is describing is the only rational course of action. What Rossi is doing is what a scam artist would do And, in your opinion, how does this scam artist profit from the alleged scam? T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit Reads another report backwards.
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Rossi Story: Corriere di Bologna Gets it Wrong http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/26/rossi-story-corriere-di-bologna-gets-it-wrong/ No they didn't. It says it will start within weeks on receipt of the first installment. I'm not sure if the problem is the translation or the original article but the translated version makes no sense at all. It even suggests that U of Bologna will pay Rossi to do the test. And anyone who assume from the article that Rossi is planning to give an E-cat device for U of Bologna to test may be very disappointed. If Rossi does cough up the $500K required to initiate the contract, it may turn out he's paying the U to do secret research for him -- research which does NOT involve making sure the E-cat is really a cold fusion power source and that it works the way Rossi says it does. Rossi did say in his blog that although the research results will be secret, the university is free to say whether or not they have received an E-cat and so far, it is quite clear from their statements that they have not.
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: In the 15 or some odd years, I have never seen anyone use this word on this forum. If English is not your first language, you might understand that this in inappropriate for this forum. I invite you to seek a more appropriate phrase: English is not my first language. I'm sorry that I offended the Victorian virtue police. I understand that there might be a desire to keep the discussions on this list formal so I'll avoid such words from now. After all, sir, there are ladies present. I have copied the list owner so that this might be brought to his attention. However I don't see why being a lady would make someone more or less susceptible to be offended by the f-word. Actually, some women will find your statement offensive - are ladies precious flowers unable to speak up for themselves and that should be protected from vulgar language? PS. How about a ban on ad hominem attacks and unsusbtantiated accusations or insinuations of scam or incompetence? -- Berke Durak
Re: [Vo]:got permission to send
For those of you who do not understand my paper or why I believe it is important, I recommend these two videos. http://www.hulu.com/watch/135528/milestones-in-science-and-engineering-max-planck-and-quantum-physics#s-p2-sr-i0 http://www.hulu.com/watch/135537/milestones-in-science-and-engineering-the-atom-%E2%80%93-john-dalton-and-niels-rohr Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:got permission to send
These videos are not available outside USA and Japan. I cannot watch them. 2011/11/26 fznidar...@aol.com For those of you who do not understand my paper or why I believe it is important, I recommend these two videos. http://www.hulu.com/watch/135528/milestones-in-science-and-engineering-max-planck-and-quantum-physics#s-p2-sr-i0 http://www.hulu.com/watch/135537/milestones-in-science-and-engineering-the-atom-%E2%80%93-john-dalton-and-niels-rohr Frank Znidarsic -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: What Mary is describing is the only rational course of action. What Rossi is doing is what a scam artist would do And, in your opinion, how does this scam artist profit from the alleged scam? Terry, I'm shocked. You're making me repeat it *again*. For what? The fifth time? OK. Nobody else read this but Terry. I apologize in advance to everyone else. Here goes again -- maybe I should put it in a web site and just link it each time someone asks: If it's a scam, it's an INVESTOR scam, like Steorn, in which the investors pay up front and along the way millions and millions of dollars to the scammer to share in the profits of the invention. They often do so without proper vetting and testing (just as they did with Steorn). The scammer protects himself with non-disclosure agreements and with strong disclaimers saying the work being paid for is best effort only and every investment including this one has significant risk including losing all your money. You see that all the time in penny stock scams that net big bucks from gullible people. Investors are unable to sue due to disclaimers and NDA's they signed or they are too embarrassed to be seen as the dupes they were. And they get a tax writeoff. Also Rossi *already* got money described as a significant part of the equation from Ampenergo. The link (again at least the fifth time) is here: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3179019.ece Nobody knows who else gave him money -- people offer it to him all the time various places on the internet including his blog. One can make plenty of money with a scam without selling a thing. If you can demonstrate by any means other than quoting him that Rossi ever sold anything, please feel free to do so.
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: PS. How about a ban on ad hominem attacks and unsusbtantiated accusations or insinuations of scam or incompetence? The possibility of Rossi's E-cat being a scam has been widely discussed all over the internet and is a valid issue when considering everything Rossi has said and done and in consideration of his past criminal record. Discussing it should not be banned any more than claiming Rossi has invented cold fusion should be banned even though there is a lot less evidence for that, IMO, than there is for the other possibility.
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't say he necessarily is a good scam artist... ; ) he has tried and failed before... For all you naive people out there, you don't walk away with €2,000,000 of someone's money and remain a public entity . . . for long. I have a relationship with detectives of a very large police department and once asked the value of a human life. He said that he was aware of situations where someone died of lead poisoning for $500 cash and knew the group who did it. They left the weapon at the scene. No prints. Detective X also said, that if you want the evidence gone, ie not body found, it would cost ten times as much. I was curious how the evidence was made gone, and he said that Dempsey Dumpsters laid to rest more people than any funeral home he knew. That was enough and I asked no more questions. You don't steal $2,800,000 from people that have $2.8M unless that is all they have. Unless you immediately disappear. I recommend Costa Rica. If you believe AR is scamming this amount of money, you are unaware of reality. Now, I have an alternative idea, the only one that I can imagine. AR just wants to see his name on the net. Kewl. He spends hundreds of thousands of dollars, hires actors, fakes a demonstration of a 1 MW reactor and gets 5,000,000 hits on the internet. After self gratification, what does he have left? Well, I have seen piccys of his wife and he is not seeking self gratification. It is short lived. There is something happening here. What it is isn't exactly clear. But your mind should be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5M_Ttstbgs T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Am 27.11.2011 01:39, schrieb Giovanni Santostasi: I didn't say he necessarily is a good scam artist... ; ) he has tried and failed before... G On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com mailto:gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: What Mary is describing is the only rational course of action. What Rossi is doing is what a scam artist would do And, in your opinion, how does this scam artist profit from the alleged scam He sells. Mike Brady did never make a documented successful demonstration. He announced multiple demonstrations in prominent places, but never did them. Shortly before the final date he disannounced them. He said, he could not do them for security reasons because his life was in danger and he wants to protect his customers. Rossi uses the same advertising agents and distribution channels: Sterling Allan (PESWiki) and Adolf Schneider (TransAltec AG) in Switzerland. Mike Brady had in his contractual stipulation explicitely written that a customer has no right to see a working machine before paying. Also the customer had to pay before delivery. No escrow. This where his conditions and he got customers. He sold, but there are at least 40 documented cases where he did not deliver and these customers went to court in germany, I have read details about this case. Probably he found many more anonymous customers more who ordered and payed. It is interesting. It was easy to convict him because he did not deliver and because he could not show a stock or factory and he could not show, that he ever intended to deliver. I believe, Rossi will not do this fundamental management error, he will deliver. If a customer makes trouble, he can stop to deliver the catalyst. It is then impossible for the customer to proof if the machine worked or not. So, if he sells, he will be in a much stronger position than Brady. So, how does he profit? Very simple - he sells. best regards, Peter
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: The scammer protects himself with non-disclosure agreements and with strong disclaimers saying the work being paid for is best effort only and every investment including this one has significant risk including losing all your money. LOL! You do not understand the power of money vs the value of human life. Your response is so very naive. T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Terry, I'm shocked. Yes, the f-word offends me, too. I was only trying to protect your virtue. ;-) T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: He sells. Mike Brady did never make a documented successful demonstration. So, Peter, my dear yo-yo friend, can you document how many Perendev motors that Brady actually sold? T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Am 27.11.2011 02:15, schrieb Terry Blanton: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Peter Heckertpeter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: He sells. Mike Brady did never make a documented successful demonstration. So, Peter, my dear yo-yo friend, can you document how many Perendev motors that Brady actually sold? I am not everybodys dear friend. No, I cannot. There where 40 cases documented by court. I recommend to do own recherche if you are interested, but the documents are in german. Nevertheless they should be accessable by qualified attorneys and court journalists. Best regards, Peter T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Terry, If being killed at a cost of 500 dollars would enough to stop a scam artist or a criminal of any type we would not have many around... G On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.dewrote: Am 27.11.2011 02:15, schrieb Terry Blanton: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Peter Heckertpeter.heck...@arcor.de** wrote: He sells. Mike Brady did never make a documented successful demonstration. So, Peter, my dear yo-yo friend, can you document how many Perendev motors that Brady actually sold? I am not everybodys dear friend. No, I cannot. There where 40 cases documented by court. I recommend to do own recherche if you are interested, but the documents are in german. Nevertheless they should be accessable by qualified attorneys and court journalists. Best regards, Peter T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: I am not everybodys dear friend. Well, consider me a dear friend unless something changes. Why not be patient and see what actually happens. Are you new to all this CF stuff? I am not and I have been yo-yo-ed more than you or any of the listers I have seen here in the past 10 months. Standby and keep an open mind . . . but not so open that your brain falls out! :-) (How does Rich Murray put it . . . oh, yeah) within mutual service, T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Terry, If being killed at a cost of 500 dollars would enough to stop a scam artist or a criminal of any type we would not have many around... Agreed. I did not specifically speak of scammers. I spoke only of an experienced detective's knowledge of the value of human life. Scammers who steal from widows of orphans might get one for free. :-) T
[Vo]:unsubscribe
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Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
widows *or* orphans Sorry, first day with the new fingers. The Yakuza can be generous and know many microsurgerns! T
Re: [Vo]:unsubscribe
Send this to vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com with unsubscribe in the subject header. Live long and prosper! ,\\ // -- T On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Dusty Bradshaw d_bra...@bellsouth.netwrote: -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Am 27.11.2011 02:28, schrieb Giovanni Santostasi: Terry, If being killed at a cost of 500 dollars would enough to stop a scam artist or a criminal of any type we would not have many around... Those people who buy, are not those who kill. There are easier ways for such criminals to get money than to buy wonder machines. Pure criminals dont buy this. In the case of Brady it was reported, that he treatened and blackmailed customers via phone calls. You must see, only naive believers buy this and some hoped Brady will soon solve the technical problems that he pretended to have or they will get their money back. It is also possible some buy to steal the secret and these are easy to blackmail and to handle, because these dont want to see their case examined by police and court.
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.dewrote: Am 27.11.2011 02:28, schrieb Giovanni Santostasi: Terry, If being killed at a cost of 500 dollars would enough to stop a scam artist or a criminal of any type we would not have many around... Those people who buy, are not those who kill. Indeed not! They are the employers, silly! T
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Terry, take a moment and google and review the cases of: Bedini Dennis Lee Sniffex (and it's $100 million lethal successors such as the ADE651, GT200, H3 Tec, HEDD1, AL-6D) Perendev Mylow Jeff Otto Carl Tilley Aviso Any scam of the day at peswiki.com (Sterling cycles them through more than once a week) and don't forget a detailed study of Steorn Any HHO scam, one of which recently killed three participants in a Los Angeles suburb and blew up a building And there are many, many others I could look up but it probably wouldn't sway you one bit. All of the above are scams, scammers, and con men. Most are investor scams rather than product scams. A few have been caught. Some are convicted felons, like Rossi. Most don't get caught-- at least not for a while and not for every scam. Some scams are unusually deadly -- for example explosive detector scams which killed a dozen people on camera in Thailand and possibly hundreds or thousands of anonymous people in Iraq and wasted about a hundred million dollars in US aid to Iraq. Do you live in a world of blissful innocence in which everyone is honest and you can believe what they say simply because they say it?
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
new fingers? G On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.dewrote: Am 27.11.2011 02:28, schrieb Giovanni Santostasi: Terry, If being killed at a cost of 500 dollars would enough to stop a scam artist or a criminal of any type we would not have many around... Those people who buy, are not those who kill. There are easier ways for such criminals to get money than to buy wonder machines. Pure criminals dont buy this. In the case of Brady it was reported, that he treatened and blackmailed customers via phone calls. You must see, only naive believers buy this and some hoped Brady will soon solve the technical problems that he pretended to have or they will get their money back. It is also possible some buy to steal the secret and these are easy to blackmail and to handle, because these dont want to see their case examined by police and court.
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Am 27.11.2011 02:38, schrieb Terry Blanton: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Am 27.11.2011 02:28, schrieb Giovanni Santostasi: Terry, If being killed at a cost of 500 dollars would enough to stop a scam artist or a criminal of any type we would not have many around... Those people who buy, are not those who kill. Indeed not! They are the employers, silly! Is it not silly to think, you can buy a machine that contains a multi billion dollar secret for 2 millions and still live in peace and happiness? People who do this, are easy to handle.
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Rossi is a businessman who wants to make money. Solid testing would be awesome marketing but he doesn't want to attract attention, yet he invites AP reporters to observe tests. He doesn't need black box tests because he already has customers, and though a satisfied customer is the best marketing available, his customers are all sworn to secrecy? He is fine with shoddy demoes because he's from the Old School. He just wants to sell devices, but not too many, and yet every device sold could be torn apart and duplicated. He doesn't have a patent because the one he filed was intentionally absurd. The rationalization required to describe a self consistent narrative out of these random, contradictory facts is mind boggling. On Nov 26, 2011, at 20:45, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Terry, take a moment and google and review the cases of: Bedini Dennis Lee Sniffex (and it's $100 million lethal successors such as the ADE651, GT200, H3 Tec, HEDD1, AL-6D) Perendev Mylow Jeff Otto Carl Tilley Aviso Any scam of the day at peswiki.com (Sterling cycles them through more than once a week) and don't forget a detailed study of Steorn Any HHO scam, one of which recently killed three participants in a Los Angeles suburb and blew up a building And there are many, many others I could look up but it probably wouldn't sway you one bit. All of the above are scams, scammers, and con men. Most are investor scams rather than product scams. A few have been caught. Some are convicted felons, like Rossi. Most don't get caught-- at least not for a while and not for every scam. Some scams are unusually deadly -- for example explosive detector scams which killed a dozen people on camera in Thailand and possibly hundreds or thousands of anonymous people in Iraq and wasted about a hundred million dollars in US aid to Iraq. Do you live in a world of blissful innocence in which everyone is honest and you can believe what they say simply because they say it?
[Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
A little digging and this comes up: 1) Karl Norwood owns a real estate company named the Norwood Group and the office property at 116 S River Rd, Bedford, NH, belongs to him. http://www.nainorwoodgroup.com/propdocs/116%20South%20River%20Road% 20Building%20A.pdf 2) Karl Norwood is president of Ampenergo. http://energycatalyzer3.com/news/more-details-about-ampenergo-deal-available 3) The legal address of Ampenergo is 116-G S River Rd, Bedford, NH https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?1114558 4) Neither the Leonardo Corporation, nor Ampenergo are listed on the directory at 116 S. River Rd, Bedford, NH. 5) The registered address for the Leonardo Corporation is 8 Town Farm Rd, New Boston, NH. https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?414253 And there's nothing there. 6) The equipment on the website at www.leonardocorp1996.com seems to be something from Bologna, It. http://www.linkedin.com/company/eon-srl So the bottom line is that the Leonardo Corporation seems to be just a paper company. There doesn't seem to be any place in New Hampshire to build e-cats. This doesn't mean that anything sinister is going on. It's just that I had thought that he was building the e-cats here. Craig Haynie Manchester, NH
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Terry, take a moment and google and review the cases of: snip Do you live in a world of blissful innocence in which everyone is honest and you can believe what they say simply because they say it? Dearest Mary, I have followed all these and others long before you were even aware of their existence. And I do not believe a word of Rossi simply because he says so. However, I have followed this LENR stuff since 1989. (Were you even born then?) I once discounted it like everyone else, then a kind old gentleman by the name of Chris Tinsley come on my CompuServe web forum and simply asked me if I was sure that cold fusion was dead. He suggested that I join a forum called Vortex-l and follow the discussions. So, I did. I wish to thank Jed Rothwell who asked for help building the LENR-CANR.org web site. He needed help with getting the documents in a format that could be posted on his site. I and my secretary had some time available and we worked on some of the documents helping reformat them. But, in the meantime, I had to read and understand what they were saying. Now, I was already convinced by the exchanges on Vortex that I was wrong about cold fusion; but, working on these documents secured me in my convictions. Jed has proceeded on his own since then; but, I have continued to read many of not most of the papers posted on the LENR-CANR.org web site. Indeed, today, I was looking for a particular paper and could not access the site and found it was down. I told Jed and he let me know that there was a problem. These documents are a great treasure trove. I think anyone with a sound mind and some knowledge of science could read the bulk of these papers and find them convincing of the truth of low energy nuclear reactions. I read them hoping to find a secret that is embedded in the combination of all the knowledge. Frankly, I think I have stumbled on a few and I mention them sometimes on this forum. But, lately, to quote Dave in his consolation of HAL something wonderful is happening. And if you are afraid, Don't be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScblwhj9lU Forget Rossi and look at the big picture. If you see what I do, you will be elated! T
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: A little digging and this comes up: SNIP This doesn't mean that anything sinister is going on. It's just that I had thought that he was building the e-cats here. Good investigative job. Not sinister maybe but certainly not the same result as finding a factory or huge office. Come to think of it, nobody has ever seen an E-cat factory nor a Defkalion one. Nor has anyone been interviewed who made either the E-cat or the Hyperion. Not sinister perhaps but suspicious, IMO.
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
On Nov 26, 2011, at 21:07, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: 5) The registered address for the Leonardo Corporation is 8 Town Farm Rd, New Boston, NH. https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?414253 And there's nothing there. What does this mean? There's no building at the address?
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
There is this house. http://maps.google.com.br/maps?q=8+Town+Farm+Rd%0ANew+Boston+NH+03070rls=com.microsoft:en-USoe=utf8rlz=1I7GGLL_pt-BRum=1ie=UTF-8hq=hnear=0x89e233b60cc6dd6f:0x14d6fbb9387b5f2b,8+Town+Farm+Rd,+New+Boston,+NH+03070,+USAgl=brei=ZJ7RTpi5DYG2tweakI2pDQsa=Xoi=geocode_resultct=titleresnum=1ved=0CCgQ8gEwAA 2011/11/27 Charles Hope lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.com On Nov 26, 2011, at 21:07, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: 5) The registered address for the Leonardo Corporation is 8 Town Farm Rd, New Boston, NH. https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?414253 And there's nothing there. What does this mean? There's no building at the address? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Nov 26, 2011, at 19:52, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: . Actually, some women will find your statement offensive - are ladies precious flowers unable to speak up for themselves and that should be protected from vulgar language? Absolutely. And American ladies never, ever use foul language. We maintain them as creatures of proper breeding and pleasant temperament. You really must try one some time. They're the envy of all the world.
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
He moved his US operation to Miami. We have been through this. If you are really interested, I will find my posts from 10 months ago. The bulk of his work is in Italy to avoid the evil eye of the DOE. Can anyone answer the question of why the DOE even exists? Why was it created? Anyone? Or are all of you too young to remember? If not, did it meet it's goal? Hint: the answer is a resounding NO! It's hell getting old; but, the alternative . . . T
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 21:15 -0500, Charles Hope wrote: On Nov 26, 2011, at 21:07, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: 5) The registered address for the Leonardo Corporation is 8 Town Farm Rd, New Boston, NH. https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?414253 And there's nothing there. What does this mean? There's no building at the address? It's the same address as the corporate registration agent, and Google Maps appears to bring up a residence there. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: 6) The equipment on the website at www.leonardocorp1996.com seems to be something from Bologna, It. It's actually quite funny. Supposedly, this company I never heard of before the Rossi affairs, supposdely sells an appx 500 wK generator inside a 20 foot container! LOL. What a concidence. I guess that's where Rossi got the idea for his so-called megawatt plant. http://www.leonardocorp1996.com/ The text on the site is well... strange. For some reason, it underlines in my browser when I put the cursor on any text and it isn't a link. There are misspellings such as the one in Our mission is to use vegetable oils not destined to be used as human food, non to compete with the world’s necessity to feed People. non should be not and People shouldn't be capitalized... And this: Efficiency is the key-word of our technology: 94 patents cover the technology which makes our gensets the more efficient existing in the world, thanks to a new thermal derived energy we have invented and applied to our modules. This fact allows a payback time of our Gensets in less than 2 years. Really? I doubt it. What could they mean by thermal derived energy? And how to reach them? Headquarters: Leonardo Corporation 116 South River Road Bedford, N.H. 03110 - USA Think you can find some diesel generators for sale there? This gets weirder and weirder... thanks again, Craig.
Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi's E-cat is claimed to have a COP of around 6
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Charles Hope lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.com wrote: Absolutely. And American ladies never, ever use foul language. We maintain them as creatures of proper breeding and pleasant temperament. You really must try one some time. They're the envy of all the world. :-) Especially the Southern Belles! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_belle Frankly my dear . . . T
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: He moved his US operation to Miami. He has a factory in Miami? Where? I might be able to drop by on a trip and get some clandestine photos if you can get a for sure location.
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: What would be the advantage to Rossi if he provided a conclusive test? The advantage would be that people would believe him. If he did not want to be believed, why has he gone through all the demonstrations he has done thus far with invited guests including press and scientists? Look, this really is not complicated. He wants to be believed a little, by some groups of people, so that he can sell them reactors. He does not want to be believed by everyone at this time. Many other inventors such as Edison and Patterson did the same thing for the same reasons. If I were him, I wouldn't hide anything. I'd make a complete and proper patent application, first get a huge law firm to help me and second enlist a huge patron to fund giant expansion. . . . You would probably end up with nothing. In any case, Rossi thinks this method would fail, and he is the only one who gets to decide. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: He has a factory in Miami? Where? I might be able to drop by on a trip and get some clandestine photos if you can get a for sure location. Well, whether you go to heaven or hell, you have to transfer in Atlanta. Give me a call and I'll buy you lunch. 404-848-6023 T
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
The registered address is the physical address for the Agent for the company, which can receive corporate mail on behalf of the corporation. In this case, the agent is Travis, James R, at 8 Town Farm Rd. He is an agent for multiple corporations. Lots of small companies set up a business this way--with a PO box, and, when required, a physical address with an agent. (New laws require a permanent address for officers and agents of the corporation.) Rossi has obvious plans to grow exponentially in the next few years. The process will typically involve multiple moves to larger and larger facilities, as his business needs change. The secret facility that he will use to build e-cats is not likely to be already leased and listed as an official address for the corporation. I'm all for a little snooping around to get corporate intel, but I personally am more interested in where he builds his e-cats, where he is hiring, who he is selling to, and the progress he is making on getting his products out the door and into the hands of consumers.. rather than the tired this is more evidence of fraud crowd. (MY, that would include you.) - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote: Mary wrote: »Krivit provides details of the deal Rossi refused from Celani» Like it is typical for Krivit, he did not provide any details but silly, arrogant and misinformed pseudopsychological speculations that are stated as facts. Krivit has already lost his scientific credibility and ability to objective journalism, I would say that it is wasting of time to refer him. Looks to me as if you did not bother to read the original item. In it is a link to Celani's email. That looks pretty factual and detailed to me and not silly, arrogant or misinformed. After all, Celani wrote it! Here is an image of the email, read it for yourself: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/img/2022CelaniRossiDecline.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Also Rossi *already* got money described as a significant part of the equation from Ampenergo. The link (again at least the fifth time) is here: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3179019.ece As McKubre noted in his lecture, Ampenergo performed their own tests, with their own equipment and several independent experts. He quoted the results: AmpEnerco Run II Sept. 25, 2009 New Hampshire 64 L H2O [coolant, I think] T-in 23°C, T-out 46°C Duration 4 hours Average P-in 40 W, P-out ~400 W There were several other tests. Also, Ampenergo definitely does know the name of the customer. I assume if there are other investors, they do too. So a scam to rip off investors is ruled out. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
Seems I have both you and Jed to talk for creating the www.lenr-canr.org web site. Yes it is a treasure trove of information and yes it did help to convince me and several others that Ni-H LENR reaction are real. Well done guys. I'm sure many other do appreciate the effort and the results. AG On 11/27/2011 12:44 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: I wish to thank Jed Rothwell who asked for help building the LENR-CANR.org web site. He needed help with getting the documents in a format that could be posted on his site. I and my secretary had some time available and we worked on some of the documents helping reformat them. But, in the meantime, I had to read and understand what they were saying... ..These documents are a great treasure trove. I think anyone with a sound mind and some knowledge of science could read the bulk of these papers and find them convincing of the truth of low energy nuclear reactions...
[Vo]:Early help from Terry Blanton and others
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: I wish to thank Jed Rothwell who asked for help building the LENR-CANR.org web site. He needed help with getting the documents in a format that could be posted on his site. I and my secretary had some time available and we worked on some of the documents helping reformat them. But, in the meantime, I had to read and understand what they were saying. You and your secretary were a great help, too. It made a big difference. Nowadays the OCR software is improved and most of the papers are in digital format to start with so it is much easier, but when I started it was months of tedious work. I was looking for a particular paper and could not access the site and found it was down. I told Jed and he let me know that there was a problem. It took Jumpline hours to fix the problem. It has never gone out this long. That has never happened with them. http://jumpline.com/support/statusview/13634987 - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
Map here: http://www.leonardocorp1996.com/dove_eng.htm AG On 11/27/2011 12:37 PM, Craig Haynie wrote: A little digging and this comes up: 1) Karl Norwood owns a real estate company named the Norwood Group and the office property at 116 S River Rd, Bedford, NH, belongs to him. http://www.nainorwoodgroup.com/propdocs/116%20South%20River%20Road% 20Building%20A.pdf 2) Karl Norwood is president of Ampenergo. http://energycatalyzer3.com/news/more-details-about-ampenergo-deal-available 3) The legal address of Ampenergo is 116-G S River Rd, Bedford, NH https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?1114558 4) Neither the Leonardo Corporation, nor Ampenergo are listed on the directory at 116 S. River Rd, Bedford, NH. 5) The registered address for the Leonardo Corporation is 8 Town Farm Rd, New Boston, NH. https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/Corp.asp?414253 And there's nothing there. 6) The equipment on the website at www.leonardocorp1996.com seems to be something from Bologna, It. http://www.linkedin.com/company/eon-srl So the bottom line is that the Leonardo Corporation seems to be just a paper company. There doesn't seem to be any place in New Hampshire to build e-cats. This doesn't mean that anything sinister is going on. It's just that I had thought that he was building the e-cats here. Craig Haynie Manchester, NH
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Seems I have both you and Jed to talk for creating the www.lenr-canr.org web site. No no no. Jed created the web site and pays the bills. This is Jed's web site! He called for assistance on the initial documents and I, among many others, helped him with the formatting. I was lucky to even be allowed to have a part in the process. Jed Rothwell IS lenr-canr.org. It contains his life blood. He is one of the Three Musketeers: Eugene Mallove, Chris Tinsley and Jed Rothwell. I have seen people call Jed all sorts of names; but, history will show him as THE advocate of cold fusion. Martin Fleishmann and Stanley Pons deserve a Nobel Prize for their work. But they should pay Jed for his expenses on LENR-CANR.org as remuneration from the proceeds. Just my opinion. Hey, on that note, I was trying to find Stanley Pons on the web to find out what he is doing. Does anyone know? T
Re: [Vo]:Leonardo Corporation is a Paper Company
On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 18:28 -0800, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: He moved his US operation to Miami. He has a factory in Miami? Where? I might be able to drop by on a trip and get some clandestine photos if you can get a for sure location. The Miami location appears to be an apartment, rented by Rossi. http://tinyurl.com/7bhhhbw http://g.co/maps/ykvcv So he seems to have the corporation set up on paper in at least two states, but hasn't yet started production in America. Craig
Re: [Vo]:got permission to send
Here is a list of all the videos from Lane Davis on Frank's Z-Theory: http://tinyurl.com/ztheory In YouTube format, for you international folks... - Brad
