[WSG] Why does IE show text decoration on these buttons?

[wsg]

Hello group,

It's another brain fade moment for me, so I hope someone can help me.  

In IE7, the nav buttons are showing a black underline when the mouse hovers
over them, even though I have specifically put text-decoration:none in the
IE style sheet.   (In other browsers the buttons do what they're supposed
to)

Can anyone see what I've missed please?  

http://uniquecelebrations.com.au/ 

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
0414 622 847
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer 
AFP Webworks Pty Ltd 
http://afpwebworks.com 
Full Scale ColdFusion 9 hosting from A$15/month





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RE: [WSG] Disappearing legends in IE 6

[wsg]

Hi Christian,

Put a ' margin : 0;'  style to your legend tag and you're home free..

Regards,

Mark

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Christian Montoya
> Sent: maandag 17 november 2008 17:20
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] Disappearing legends in IE 6
> 
> Hello list. I just put up a new design at http://christianmontoya.com
> and I'm just trying to "make it work" in IE 6. The one problem that's
> left is that the legends on my fieldsets don't show up. If you view it
> in IE 6 you'll see just white spaces in place of them. Can anyone
> suggest a fix? Thanks in advance.
> 
> --
> --
> Christian Montoya
> christianmontoya.net
> 
> 
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Re: [WSG] Flash on top of Flash

[wsg]

Hello, Anthony.

Set the object's and embed's parameter "wmode" to "transparent". like:



> Hi,

> I have two flash files - 1 contains a flash menu the other contains an
> animation. We are trying to position them on top of each other...

> The flash menu is contained in a DIV with the following css..

> .top_nav {position:absolute; top:0; left:0px; z-index:1000;}

> The other flash animation file is contained in an iframe which is
> contained in a DIV and the css for both the Iframe and DIV container are
> as follows...

> #ourrange_flash {width:1000px; height:420px;}
> #ourrange_flash iframe {width:1000px; height:420px; padding:0; border:0;
> margin:0; z-index:0;}

> Firefox loads this page correctly, that is the menu on top of the
> animation.

> In IE, Safari and Opera the menu loads but appears BEHIND the animation.

> I would have thought position:absolute with z-index has authority.

> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

> Regards,
> Anthony 


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-- 
With regards,
 wixus  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[WSG] Force landscape on a print style sheet?

[wsg]

I'm doing a print style sheet for a reporting system, and I'm trying to figure 
out if it's possible to force a printer to print in landscape orientation using 
CSS.

I know there are postscript and PCL commands to switch the printer to 
landscape, but I'm not sure if you can add PCL Commands to the print stream 
from the browser.  Can you?  Anyone know how that would be done? Alternatively, 
how would you force the page to print in landscape? 

At the moment I have a workaround, in that the user calls up the report to the 
browser,  then goes to print preview and selects print preferences to print in 
landscape,  then sends the job to print. But I'd like to make it automatic if I 
can.

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks Pty Ltd
http://afpwebworks.com
Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month




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[WSG] RE:

[wsg]

Your penis is as hard to find as an itty bitty needle. With Penis Enlarge Patch 
it will be shown even from the distance.

http://www.koppalt.com/?wluhmnlbd

Turn your penis from a peasant to a Nobel.















bring down a subject with it at the present German range -- you only cripple
German novel  --  which a slight parenthesis in it.  I will make a 
perfectlyliteral translation, and throw in the parenthesis-marks and some 
hyphens for



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[WSG] RE:

[wsg]

Do you want to pleasure your partner like noone else has before? Try Penis Enlarge Patch. 


http://www.netopr.com/?velbgmvxsv

Your penis will make more shadow than the tree.















not be warned, it  will  at last  either soften  his  brain  or petrify  
it.Personal  pronouns and adjectives  are a fruitful nuisance in this 
language,and should have been left out. For instance, the same sound, SIE, 
means YOU,




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[WSG] RE:

[wsg]

Penis Enlarge Patch - she will be sore for weeks.

http://www.leaxtir.com/?atdagrviuzoyo




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[WSG] RE:

[wsg]

When you start to realize that you need to change your size, try Penis Enlarge 
Patch.

http://www.studkin.biz/?yrujdmpzgnm

With Penis Enlarge Patch your confidence will be shown.















 Seventhly, I would discard the Parenthesis. Also the reparenthesis, the



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[WSG] Javascript image rotator

[wsg]

Hi Paul

> Hmm, I have seen a few examples of people using Jscript only to do it.
>I don't need to modify the image, just reload a new one every five
>seconds or so. I can find scripts to do this, just need the fade bit I
>guess.
>Apparently, I can't use Flash for this.

I recently used jquery [1] for this, and a plug in called innerfade [2],
at http://reviews.somuchworld.com

Innerfade iterates through a list of items. For browsers with javascript
off,  quick fix for me was to set all but the first item's visibility to
hidden. A nicer fix might be to pull the additional items through via
ajax.

Once jquery and innerfade were in place, this is the additional javascript
I wrote:

/**
 * Attach to #random_town, and fade in towns
 */
$(document).ready(function () {
  $('#random_town .town').css('display', 'block');
  $('#random_town').innerfade({ speed: 4000, timeout: 6000, type:
'sequence', containerheight: 'auto' });
});

[1] http://jquery
[2] http://medienfreunde.com/lab/innerfade/

PS. The somuchworld site is a work in progress, albeit live.



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Re: [WSG] input/text random background color in IE?

[Vaska . WSG]

o, autofill...i bet it has to do with how i name my form 
elements...


ok, then it makes sense and 'no', i wouldn't want to turn that off.

i don't see it actually, i'm on a mac.  when i'm on a pc testing stuff 
i see this though and i've always wondered what it is...


the mystery has been demystified...thanks...


On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:35 PM, Ben Curtis wrote:



Why is it that IE turns the background of some input/text elements to 
light yellow?  I can't find any information as to why or how it's 
doing this...and I want to stop it.



Keep in mind when you "want to stop" normal behavior of the browser, 
if you succeed then people that expect that behavior will become 
disoriented and perhaps will believe that your site is broken. In 
essence, the answer to your question may be "IE turns some input/text 
elements to light yellow because the user wants them that way." You 
haven't given us enough background to understand if this general rule 
applies to your circumstance.


I'm not sure about IE, but Safari does this to indicate which fields 
were filled in by the auto-fill and which the user had modified. 
Without this distinction, the users may submit more incomplete or 
inaccurate forms.


--

Ben Curtis : webwright
bivia : a personal web studio
http://www.bivia.com
v: (818) 507-6613



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[WSG] input/text random background color in IE?

[Vaska . WSG]

Why is it that IE turns the background of some input/text elements to 
light yellow?  I can't find any information as to why or how it's doing 
this...and I want to stop it.


Anybody know what this is about?

Thanks, v

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Re: [WSG] problem with utf-8 page encoding

[Vaska . WSG]

I see that it is possible, but how many folks use it?  Like an individual or a small business...is it common enough  (yet)?

The below links aren't working in Safari...

I've been researching how alot of open source cms's and blog tools deal with this issue and they don't.  Most of them either have some kind of conversion map (that is completely inadequate for the task) or they create urls that have little to do with the page title.  For instance...

http://www.site.com/1-eaeraceceac.php // <= the "eaeraceceac" is a botched character conversion from Chinese

or

http://www.site.com/page0001.php  // <= no reference to the page title whatsoever...

The Chinese websites I have looked up have latin1 style urls...no sign of Chinese text anywhere in there.

Aside of requiring a Chinese to enter in a latin page name for an article/entry/page I can't see any way possible to create urls (clean urls) using Chinese (non-latin) characters.

Ideas?

thanks...v



On Jun 7, 2005, at 1:11 AM, tee wrote:

Hi Vaska, as the w3c links Anders provided, it can. However I will be very
skeptical to using it as obviously browsers are not advance enough to handle
it, but then it maybe the server issue too. Sorry, I am too ignorant on this
matter to tell  you anything more.

I did a test on Safari, FF, IE and Opera by entering domain in Chinese, only
FF picks up the address. Wonder how it works on PC browsers.
You may like to try:
Simplified Chinese sites:
A Chinese famous seach engine  = ~{0Y6H~}
Or this <163.com> = ~{RWMx~}
Ebay China  = ~{RWH$~}

Traditional sites:
 = ~{FfD&~}
 = ~{^,JmLY~}

These are domains but the one Anders provided does have a path in Japanese
character, and it works in FF.
http://www.w3.org/International/tests/sec-iri-3


tee

From: Vaska.WSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:32:08 +0200
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] problem with utf-8 page encoding

tee, or really any Chinese person on this list,

one thing that I've been cuious about is how do you deal with creating
urls.  this could sound extremely naive and i'm sorry for that.  it's
my understanding that use of latin1 characters only is allowed to make
a url...or create folders etc...

http://www.this-is-latin1-text.com/and-this-is-a-folder/and-this-is-a-
filename.php

this wouldn't be possible...

http://www.~{6(;[EMAIL PROTECTED]~{Q!Pc~}.com/~{6(;[EMAIL PROTECTED]/~{6(;[EMAIL PROTECTED].php

i've been having to find a way to deal with this issue and so far i've
only come up with workarounds that just don't seem very user-friendly.

i was looking at conversion maps but it became a completely crazy
exercise...

v

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Re: [WSG] problem with utf-8 page encoding

[Vaska . WSG]

tee, or really any Chinese person on this list,

one thing that I've been cuious about is how do you deal with creating urls.  this could sound extremely naive and i'm sorry for that.  it's my understanding that use of latin1 characters only is allowed to make a url...or create folders etc...

http://www.this-is-latin1-text.com/and-this-is-a-folder/and-this-is-a-filename.php

this wouldn't be possible...

http://www.~{6(;[EMAIL PROTECTED]~{Q!Pc~}.com/~{6(;[EMAIL PROTECTED]~{Q!Pc~}/~{6(;[EMAIL PROTECTED]~{Q!Pc~}.php

i've been having to find a way to deal with this issue and so far i've only come up with workarounds that just don't seem very user-friendly.

i was looking at conversion maps but it became a completely crazy exercise...

v

Re: [WSG] tr onmouseover or class:hover

[Vaska . WSG]

Thanks,  that's exactly what I was searching for (the explanation).

Thanks, thanks, thanks.  ;)


On Jun 6, 2005, at 5:36 PM, Steven Ametjan wrote:

Unfortunately, IE only reads the :hover psuedo-class on  elements. 
The use of
javascript can circumvent this. Ideally though, you should not embed 
the
onmouseover, onmouseout events directly in the markup, but use a 
javascript that
will process the table and input the :hover functionality. If you look 
at the

script that is used for the suckerfish dropdowns on ALA
(http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/), it will give you an 
idea of what

it takes.


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[WSG] tr onmouseover or class:hover

[Vaska . WSG]

I've been fishing for an answer to this but I can't find one.

I know I've read somewhere in the past that if you want to change the 
color of a table row TR I need to use:


	class='transparent' onmouseover="this.className='over';" 
onmouseout="this.className='transparent';"


I would certainly prefer to use something along the lines of (sans 
mouseoverout action):


.transparent:hover
{
background: #00;
}

It certainly does work in modern browsers, but isn't there some issue 
with IE (per the usual) that prevents this route from being more 
commonly used?  What are the limitations I need to be aware, etc...


The discussion about tables isn't relevant here...I'm using tabular 
data...ahem...


Thanks, v

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Re: [WSG] problem with utf-8 page encoding

[Vaska . WSG]

You really need to give us the URL of the page that this occurs on so others can test it.

It's on my dev server.  If you really want to see a test page (where the images aren't working and alot of the css is totally in outerspace right now) it's here.

http://www.vaska.com/wsg/08test.php

 We also need to know os/ver and browser/ver it occurs on to emulate it.

OSX 10.3.9...Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, IE...

 Opening it as a local file is not a good test 

Apparently so, because the test, at least for me, works when it's on my server.  I should have thought of this one. There are a few validation errors right now as well...

Thanks for the advice Peter.  I think I'm on the right track...just trying to get over some of the finer details so I can move forward (I'm competely rebuilding something that I've been using with clients for years en route to making it an open source thing).

v

[WSG] problem with utf-8 page encoding

[Vaska . WSG]

I'm not sure what the deal is, but when I bring up a page in my system it doesn't encode properly at first.  I have to go the browser options and change it to utf-8.  The funny thing is that utf-8 is my default as set in all my browsers.

This is my header...




Page title


etc...etc...

And in my document I am specifying the correct language as needed...yes, I know it's a table but this is tabular data...I'm just trying to show the pertinent parts here...

~{6(~} ~{;[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~{4N~}~{Q!Pc~}

I don't have any output buffering or anything of the kind going on here.  Is there some on the surface here that I'm missing?

Thanks, v

Re: [WSG] Character encoding

[Vaska . WSG]

For some reason, I feel I have to escape every character that is not a
letter or number.



I was feeling the same, and working on it, when this thread arrived.  
At the time it appeared I was looking up numeric entity lists in 
Cyrillic and adapting them to a conversion_map function (for PHP).  I 
was arriving at the conclusion that it was completely crazy to go this 
route...because Chinese was on the horizon.


Thanks...v

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Re: [WSG] Regarding foreign languages

[Vaska . WSG]

Vaska, you¨re still mixing those:


I think you are mixing two things which should be separated.

The first problem is the language of the page (defined in the header)
The second problem is how to create a non-ascii character


He is right.


I've already identified that I will be using utf-8.  And I've accepted 
use of xml:lang/lang: in both the header and on the individual form 
elements (as necessary) - what am I still mixing on this issue?  Am I 
missing something more obvious?


No, the browser will. It will send the characters in the encoding 
(charset, not language!) of the page.


Thanks, I understand what's going on with this now.  I was really just 
curious how it was dealt with - I don't believe it changes anything on 
the server-end (and didn't think it would).


You mention the use of Unicode...perhaps I'm way out there on this 
point but am I not allowed to assume that the user will be using 
unicode to input their data?  I know it's a web browser, but is there 
some way I can restrict their input to unicode (the page xml:lang that 
is)?  If they enter something else, it likely won't work.  Perhaps this 
is where I'm still 'mixing' things up?


v
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Re: [WSG] Regarding foreign languages

[Vaska . WSG]

Believe me, I'm listening to what y'all are telling me.

It is a tricky business because for a French typist I can use entities 
and change an é into é but with Chinese everything comes up 
unreadable (as you've mentioned).  I think this is going to end up 
being a case by case scenario - is this how it's done?


Unfortunately, even though I worked in a translation office for some 
time, I don't have much experience at this end of things (I only did 
design back then, no programming).  While I can smoothly transition the 
insertion of xml:lang and lang attributes into my form elements as 
needed, it just doesn't feel like it's the right thing to do (of 
course, this feeling has no basis in reality).


There will be a situation where one page will have the header encoding 
in ZH and an input/text field as EN-US.  I'm pretty sure that the field 
itself won't establish the language parameters that go into the field - 
the operating system will.  I'm confused, aside from hoping that the 
user will understand what needs to go into the field, how this will 
work.  Or perhaps this is purely a design/usability issue.


One thing I don't understand though, is at what point does the computer 
actually use the xml:lang attribute?  At the input (client-side)?  When 
it gets to the server/table (server-side)?  I can type any language I 
want into the textarea, but what comes out can vary...


And one more thing, my language declaration (in the header)...I've seen 
so many different kinds and read a few articles on the subject but I 
don't know exactly where to go on this:


en
en-us
en-gb
zh
zh-hans
etc.

What, where, which formats do I use and stick with if the idea is to 
support just about any lanugage that's out there (theoretically)?


Thanks for the help...v



On Jun 2, 2005, at 10:46 PM, Juergen Auer wrote:


On 2 Jun 2005 at 16:49, Vaska.WSG wrote:


It's for a multilanguage site and base language will be English.
Everything on the form will be English except the actual input
(textarea).


Hello Vaska,

I think you are mixing two things which should be separated.

The first problem is the language of the page (defined in the header)
or the language of a block (defined like http://www.sql-und-xml.de/

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Re: [WSG] Regarding foreign languages

[Vaska . WSG]

It's for a multilanguage site and base language will be English.  
Everything on the form will be English except the actual input 
(textarea).  Would it hurt anything if I just kept the lang declaration 
as EN in the header?  Or, since the input will be Chinese should it be 
ZN?  Or, do I need to be more specific and delcare lang=ZN on the 
textarea itself?


I was wondering though...since it's ALL utf-8 it might not be necessary 
to declare lang=whatever at all?


Out of curiousity, I'm not sure why we need to declare lang and 
xml:lang since utf-8 (I believe) is all we really need?



On Jun 2, 2005, at 4:21 PM, Ben Ward wrote:


The language in your html element should be the language of the page.
If you have a section of the page (be that a parapraph, form,
anything) which uses a different language then you can add a lang and
xml:lang attribute to that as well. HTML is generally rather good at
doing multi-lingual documents.

I could do this on a page (this is condensed down and is missing some
attributes, but I just want to show the xml:lang/lang behaviour):








  






The language declaration doesn't restrict the characters you can use
in forms, regardless. So you don't need to add a language attribute to
your sub-elements unless you are explicitly requiring Chinese input.
Obviously if it's an all chinese site then it would make sense to
change the language value in the  element itself.

Ben
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[WSG] Regarding foreign languages

[Vaska . WSG]

Am I allowed to ask about non-CSS things here?

In particular, I'm trying to deal with how to handle inputs of Chinese 
characters via some forms.  What I'm wondering is...


- will utf-8 suffice?
- do I need to specify http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; 
xml:lang='en' lang='en'> as ZN?  is it necessary?  Isn't utf-8 good 
enough?


And further, I'm not sure how to handle Chinese text on the validation 
end of things, but this might be a subject for a different list 
altogether.


I'll eventually have to deal with some other languages but Chinese will 
likely be one of the more difficult ones.


???

I'll see what happens when I send this...v

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Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?

[Vaska . WSG]

It's a pretty solution, but it doesn't word-wrap...at least not in 
Safari.  Make your browser window thinner and see what happens?


What I'm doing is no different except that I'm going through the 
trouble of having php count the number of tabs and then using that 
information to insert the correct class.  If there are more than 5 \t's 
I just stop it there.  This information is coming out of a database so 
it's no trouble going this route...


Oh, I'm not using pre either...v


On Jun 1, 2005, at 1:08 AM, Lachlan Hardy wrote:


Vaska.WSG wrote:
I've been reading around (via Google) and I find others with similar 
problems but no solution.  Is there a solution to this?


Whenever I present code in a page, I use something similar to the 
method Simon Willison put forward by in July 2002: 
http://development.incutio.com/simon/numbered-code-experiment.html


Works for me. I've yet to find a better method (although if someone 
has one...)


Cheers
Lachlan
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Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?

[Vaska . WSG]

I think this will do the trick.  It's a little odd, and I'll have to  
test this out more, doing a preg_match_all to determine how many \t's  
there are (so we know what class='tab$number' to use), but I think in  
most instances this will suffice.


Thanks for pointing this solution out...v


On May 31, 2005, at 4:41 PM, Ingo Chao wrote:


Vaska.WSG schrieb:

Actually, because I can't really find a way to get by on the  
word-wrap  issue and also the use of indents (as they appear in the  
code) I've  done all of this in php without code or pre.  It uses  
 's for the  tabs (preg_replace("/\t/"...).  ...

If you are curious this is what an output looks like ...
1 

Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?

[Vaska . WSG]

Thanks for the discussion folks...

Actually, because I can't really find a way to get by on the word-wrap  
issue and also the use of indents (as they appear in the code) I've  
done all of this in php without code or pre.  It uses  's for the  
tabs (preg_replace("/\t/"...).  Aside from creating a few more regex  
rules to deal with inputting slashes and the like, it seems to work  
well enough.


What I'm doing is meant purely for presentation...it's a fast way for a  
person to view a script and try to determine where a bug might live  
(via the line number).


If you are curious this is what an output looks like (I'm not sure if  
the  's will encode when I send this email).  If there is time I  
might add some simple syntax highlighting rules to the script...


1 $i    
  ";
7 
 } elseif (($i >= 10) && ($i <= 999)) {
8 
 return  
"$i    
 ";
9 
 } else {
10 
return  
"$i    
";
11}/>

12}
13/>

14?>




On May 31, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Patrick Lauke wrote:


designer



Surely, the fact that  denotes 'preformatting' means that the
formatting has occurred 'somewhere else' and not in the body
of the html.
So, in that sense, in what way is   'presentational' any
more than all
CSS is 'presentational?


Aeh...I'm not quite following your reasoning here. But to pick up
just on the last bit: CSS is *meant* for presentation, while HTML
should only mark up *content*. That's where I see the problem:
 denotes how something looks, rather than what it is (which
is the whole idea of "semantic" markup).


To take a simple example, if I set
CSS rules in
defining   characteristics, is using that  tag in the
html 'purely
presentational' or is it different to ?


You'd use  only if the text you're marking up is an actual
heading (unless you use  to mark up "oh, i want that text nice
and big", in which case you're abusing  for presentational
purposes).

But to reiterate:  has semantic connotations - the content it
marks up is a heading. , on the other hand, does not provide
any indication of what's inside, only how it's displayed.



Sometimes,  strikes me just like a css declaration,
except that you
don't have to declare what the formatting is in the header :-)


And that's a bad thing; we want separation of content and presentation.

Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
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[WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?

[Vaska . WSG]

I'm trying to make a page that will display some source code.  The PRE 
tag works very will with retaining \t and \n but I can not find a way 
to make it wrap words.  Words fly off the monitor...


I've been reading around (via Google) and I find others with similar 
problems but no solution.  Is there a solution to this?


Help...

;)

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Re: [WSG] 100% table in 775px div w/overflow:auto

[Vaska . WSG]

Yeah, the typo was from a fast typist... ;)

I think Rowan's solution will just have to do.  I do make a point to 
specify to users that it's highly recommended they use a 'modern' 
browser - complete with a link to Firefox.  So, I think that will just 
have to cover this problem well enough...


Thanks for the tip...v


On May 26, 2005, at 11:55 AM, Rowan Lewis wrote:


Patrick, I'm sure that was just a quick example to show us what the
problem was, no need to be picky :)

Anyhow, when I come across problems like this with IE, I tend to use
something like this:

table {
width : 100% !important;
width : 95%;
}


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[WSG] 100% table in 775px div w/overflow:auto

[Vaska . WSG]

Certainly modern browsers (Safari, Firefox, Mozilla) handle what I'm 
trying to do, but IE is mucking this up.  I'd post a link but this is 
on an internal dev server...


I have a div that is 775px wide and 300px tall with overflow:auto.  
Inside there is a table (for tabular type data) that is 100% wide.  
Modern browsers show this just right...a scroll bar at the right so 
users can scroll through the data.




tabular data



IE gives me a scrollbar at the bottom and the width of the table does 
not reduce itself for the scrollbar at the right (which is the real 
problem).  Is there a way to get by this (using css I mean)?  IE also 
blows out the data so that even objects that are in the hidden range 
are active (like an onmouseover action for instance).


Do I just toss in the towel trying to deal with the issue or is there 
anything that can somehow be done about this.


Thanks, v

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Re: [WSG] multiple columns and 100% height

[Vaska . WSG]

Digging around in there I don't think I see the article I was 
originally looking for, but this seems to be the same thing (overflow: 
auto;).  It's not exactly as I remembered it either, but that's a 
different subject (my poor memory)...

Thanks Stuart
On Apr 18, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Stuart Homfray wrote:
Vaska.Wsg wrote:
A short while ago somebody wrote an article about achieving 100% 
height divs when using multiple columns.  Their solution was 
something really simple but for the life of me I can't remember the 
trick - it was some kind of one line rule...height: ???.  But I'm not 
sure.
You don't mean the 'overflow:auto' float-clearing posting at 
Sitepoint's Web Design blog 
()? (a bit more at 


Stuart
--
===
El Bombin
http://elbombin.stuarthomfray.co.uk
Stuart Homfray
http://www.stuarthomfray.co.uk
===
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Re: [WSG] multiple columns and 100% height

[Vaska . WSG]

No, that's not it.  Now I'm totally dying because I can't find it.  
Some guy had figured out, and I believe had tested a way to 
audtomatically keep column heights at equal heights to each other.  No 
javascript and it didn't even appear to be a hack.

He made some comment that he stared at his monitor in disbelief because 
it worked.  Then he told some colleagues and everybody was mystified by 
the utter simplictiy of the method.

I'm not joking...but it might not have been widely tested (I can't 
remember this part).

Guess I should start keeping a history of every site I visit in the 
browser from now on...darn.

On Apr 18, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Carlos Rincon Sanchez wrote:
maybe this can help you
http://www.neuroticweb.com/recursos/3-columns-layout/
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Re: [WSG] multiple columns and 100% height

[Vaska . WSG]

Fauxcolumns isn't it.  Darn, I can't believe I didn't put this link in 
my read me files...

On Apr 16, 2005, at 5:28 PM, David wrote:
Also a case for faux columns...
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fauxcolumns/


A short while ago somebody wrote an article about achieving 100% 
height divs when using multiple columns.  Their solution was 
something really simple but for the life of me I can't remember the 
trick - it was some kind of one line rule...height: ???.  But I'm not 
sure.


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Re: [WSG] web design presentation: advice?

[Wsg]

Zulema, good luck on your presentation. 
Here's a point you might like to bring up .. .designing for the web is
similar to, but not the same as designing for the printed page with glass in
front.    
I'm doing contracting work at the moment and the designer I have to work
with has a 'printed page' mindset.  He gets his knickers in a twist if
the boxes on the screen arent always the right size, and if the gaps between
one box and another are not pixel perfect and if the boxes arent identical
in width.   It's because he thinks up his designs as though
they're printed then converts that thought to the screen.   
He's bound to a life of frustration, because Macs are different to PCs in
resolution and in colours.  Different machines have different
resolutions, different preferences set etc.  His life will never be
easy while he maintains his current mindset. 
If he can let go of the notion that designing for the printed page and
for the web are different disciplines, he'll have a much easier life. 
He ought to start out knowing that he's going to have fluid layouts,
colour variations between one machine and another, users who like fonts
bigger or smaller than others and that they should be allowed
to.   Then if he thinks that way from the beginning, the designs
he comes up with will have that flexibility built in. Then his time writing
html and CSS will be far easier and his sites will work far better.
You wouldn't approach designing a car the same way you approach designing
a bus, even though they both have colours, upholstery, engineering, wheels
etc.  And that analogy applies to web design as opposed to print
design.  There are a lot of similarities but they arent identical
jobs.
Good luck with the presentation - let us know how it goes.
CheersMike KearWindsor, NSW, Australia,Macromedia Advanced
Certified ColdFusion DeveloperAFP Webworkshttp://afpwebworks.com

- Original Message From:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgTo: "Web Standards"
Subject: [WSG] web design presentation:
advice?Date: 12/04/05 02:36Hi all,I'm going to make a presentation to art students
on an introduction toweb design and would like some advice (besides how
to deal with thebutterfiles in the stomach). First the
stats:[snip]


Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2


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Re: [WSG] typographic challenge with css

[Vaska . WSG]

Thanks for that.  I was missing the span display:block...plus I had 
forgotten the simplicity of a floated div that doesn't have a width 
applied to it.

*) except old buggy browsers, ofcourse
Yep...it's will work in IE5/Mac is it's just span (without 
display:block) oddly enough, otherwise it doesn't.  Good thing I don't 
really develop for that browser any more.  I still need to check all of 
this on IE5/PC though...later.  ;)

On Mar 31, 2005, at 2:00 PM, Kornel Lesinski wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:31:25 +0100, Vaska.WSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The tricky part, since I can't do this with a span (I believe) is 
that I only want class='sentence' to be just the width of the word 
itself (just as a span does it)
a bit offtopic note:
From CSS point of view there is no difference between tags.
You can* do same things with , , ,  or even apply
styles to  and  tags.
*) except old buggy browsers, ofcourse
Magic:
span {display: block;}
div {display: inline;}
and you have presenation of those two swapped!
This doesn't affect HTML, which still has to follow
it's own rules and should carry semantics.
--
regards, Kornel Lesi?ski
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[WSG] typographic challenge with css

[Vaska . WSG]

Hi folks:
I'm trying to do something and I'm not sure if this is possible.  What 
I want to do is write simple sentence constructed of left floated 
divs...like...

This
is
a
sentence.
The tricky part, since I can't do this with a span (I believe) is that 
I only want class='sentence' to be just the width of the word itself 
(just as a span does it).  Additionally, and this is why it's 
necessary, I want to mark up each div with further things (the 'sub' 
class would center the text underneath the 'sentence' class and would 
have smaller text)...


This
A


is
A


a
A


sentence.
A

???
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Re: [WSG] you've been framed! - Pt2 : overflow

[Vaska . WSG]

Check this out...not sure if it's what you want, but I found an article  
about it for you...

http://www.stunicholls.myby.co.uk/layouts/frame.html
Doesn't work in IE5 but I think if you dig around enough you could find  
somebody who has solved this problem...

good luck...v
On Mar 25, 2005, at 1:10 PM, designer wrote:
Happy Easter to all!
So I've done some fiddling with overflow : auto, and failed. My  
problem is
(as far as I can see) that one has to specify a height for the div  
which has
overflow:auto, and I don't know how to set the height to fill the  
viewport
space under the menu. Normally I'd set it to 100%, but that gives me  
all
kinds of problems. Firstly, if I pick the 'happy medium' of 1024 by  
768 and
give the div a height of 500px, it looks great. When I resize to 800 x  
600
however, I get 2 vertical scrollbars - the one in the div and the one  
in the
browser itself. So I set the overflow to hidden on the body, and that  
solved
that, but what remains is still a clumsy looking mess.

The effect I'm after can be seen by going to:
www.kernowproperties.co.uk
and when you get in, select the 200k max link.  You will see a long  
list of
houses for sale. The list can be scrolled, whilst the menu on the left  
stays
put. Great!

However, my attempt ( which can be seen at:
http://www.kernowproperties.fsnet.co.uk/propertydetails/ 
noframes_200kmax.html )

shows my problem:  I cannot set the height so that it makes good use  
of the
viewport area - what fits in 800 x 600 looks ridiculous in 1240 by  
1024.
etc etc.

OK, maybe I'm missing a trick here (do please tell me!) but if not, it  
looks
as though this solution isn't one, after all.

Your comments, suggestions and general help would be most welcome.
Thanks,
Bob McClelland,
Cornwall (U.K.)
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] you've been framed! - Pt2 : overflow

[Vaska . WSG]

Javascript...calculate the height of the window or even a particular  
div (like the one that the overflow is inside of)...and then apply  
height to the div in question (based upon the calculated heights of  
things minus some amount perhaps)...not the most elegant way to things  
however...

What about...I can't find it right now...there's a tutorial out there  
about creating frameless frames using css...it might be a better  
solution then you can have your nav on the left and when you scroll it  
won't move...just your right side content will scroll...v

On Mar 25, 2005, at 1:10 PM, designer wrote:
Happy Easter to all!
So I've done some fiddling with overflow : auto, and failed. My  
problem is
(as far as I can see) that one has to specify a height for the div  
which has
overflow:auto, and I don't know how to set the height to fill the  
viewport
space under the menu. Normally I'd set it to 100%, but that gives me  
all
kinds of problems. Firstly, if I pick the 'happy medium' of 1024 by  
768 and
give the div a height of 500px, it looks great. When I resize to 800 x  
600
however, I get 2 vertical scrollbars - the one in the div and the one  
in the
browser itself. So I set the overflow to hidden on the body, and that  
solved
that, but what remains is still a clumsy looking mess.

The effect I'm after can be seen by going to:
www.kernowproperties.co.uk
and when you get in, select the 200k max link.  You will see a long  
list of
houses for sale. The list can be scrolled, whilst the menu on the left  
stays
put. Great!

However, my attempt ( which can be seen at:
http://www.kernowproperties.fsnet.co.uk/propertydetails/ 
noframes_200kmax.html )

shows my problem:  I cannot set the height so that it makes good use  
of the
viewport area - what fits in 800 x 600 looks ridiculous in 1240 by  
1024.
etc etc.

OK, maybe I'm missing a trick here (do please tell me!) but if not, it  
looks
as though this solution isn't one, after all.

Your comments, suggestions and general help would be most welcome.
Thanks,
Bob McClelland,
Cornwall (U.K.)
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] Floated right div gets pushed below the left

[Vaska . WSG]

Nice.  We're currently in a prototype stage so I won't really think about the final solution until next week (but I'm downloading your markups right now).

Thanks very much, vaska


On Mar 25, 2005, at 12:28 AM, Andrew Hawthorne wrote:

Hi Vaska,

I think I may have a solution for you -- negative margins. I've used this method before and have had great luck with it. You can read up on Creating Liquid Layouts with Negative Margins for some details on the technique. This is one of my favorite articles on A List Apart.

I was bored over lunch so I threw this together for you as an example http://boxmodel.com/wsg/vaska.php . It's a rushed so I apologize. It's tested in IE6, Firefox 1.0.2, Netscape 7.2, and Safari 1.2.4 (v125.12). I hope this sends you in a positive direction.

    regards,
    Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Who's putting javascript in my code?

[Vaska . WSG]

i had a similar problem recently...we figured out after a week that it wasn't just on my end...although the host claimed they had checked everything, the server had a virus (that was connect to a java applet on another site that was a known home for hackers)...hopefully your problem isn't nearly as bad as mine was...

are you on a mac or pc?

i moved to a new server (still with the same host)...v


On Mar 24, 2005, at 5:04 PM, Alex Katechis wrote:

Seems interesting... the address 127.0.0.1 is the TCP address for loopback. This means that any computer that calls that address is actually referring to itself. The only reason I can think of, is that your browser is inserting it in order to allow or block certain functionality on the page (popup-blocking, ad-blocking, etc.)
 
Have you tried inserting that address into a browser window and trying to download the file?
Maybe then you can open up the script and it may give you clues as to its origin and purpose.

Re: [WSG] you've been framed!

[Vaska . WSG]

As far as I'm concerned, when you have a great long scrolling list (for
example) and you want (need) to keep the nav stuff stationary, frames
represent the ONLY way to do it.
The "ONLY"? What about:



That seems to work pretty well too.
Iframes are perfecty fine in some situations, but don't forget about 
the above...it works quite well too...

;)
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[WSG] Floated right div gets pushed below the left

[Vaska . WSG]

Hi Folks:
I understand what is happening here, but I'm not really sure how to go 
about resolving this.  What's happening is that a floated right div is 
being pushed down below the left when the the browser window is at 
800px wide or less.

It works in all the other browsers - it's only IE 6 that has the 
problem...see the browsercam results (just ignore the windows xp 
images):

http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=150535
The site is http://www.madeinlandscape.com/...it validates...and there 
is alot of javascript in here including Ajax.

This is the the css link http://www.madeinlandscape.com/css/style.css
Any advice on an alternative method for pulling this off?  Note, that 
the horizontal blue stripe in the upper right is supposed to adjust to 
the the size of the window (with a 503px margin at the left).

Thanks...v
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Re: [WSG] Targeting Mac IE5.1 on OSX

[Vaska . WSG]

I can't find the exact webpage, but it is possible to arget IE on 
Mac...like this...it's an odd hack that does work...

.innerbox {
/* commented backslash for IE5-Mac \*/
background: url(../imgs/bg-menu-test.png) repeat !important;
/* end hack */
background: #666;
height: 36px;
padding: 6px 0 0 51px;
}
What I'm doing in this example is using a PNG background for modern 
browsers and then for:

IE/Mac it ignores the background item and goes to the background color 
option instead

IE/PC it ignores the !important line and uses the background color 
option...

No need for conditional statements...v
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Re: [WSG] Inline list with images, no text

[Vaska . WSG]

I did manage to get my version working...it's very much like Zeldman 
and Inman's (as I did research their techniques for pulling this 
off)...I cringe to admit that I had not closed the  tag and this 
is why it was not behaving...I had validated it, but somewhere lost the 
"/"...lesson learned, again...

Thanks, v
On Feb 10, 2005, at 5:09 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
On 10 Feb 2005, at 10:33 am, RMW Web Publishing wrote:
I also had this problem recently and I also had no luck at finding 
some code
that I could "rip". So I created my own (example):

[ snipped code ]

#header_nav li span {
 display: none;
}
[.]

Personalise
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[WSG] Inline list with images, no text

[Vaska . WSG]

Aside from an example over at Shaun Inmans great site, has anybody come 
up with  a reasonable method for creating an inline list that hides the 
text (via text-indent) and uses image swapping on hover via css?

Inman's is great, but after experimenting with what he has done it 
doesn't hold up well enough for my purposes.

I've searched my collection of over 11,000 posts to this newslist and 
also the web and I can't come up with anything...???

Thanks for any ideas...
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[WSG] 1px shift on inline list for visited links only

[Vaska . WSG]

I can't quite figure out why my list (site navigation) shifts to the 
right 1px every time I hover over an item that has a link that I've 
already visited - in Safari and Firefox on the mac at least.  It 
doesn't effect links that I have not visited.

I've validated both the page and the css and I am using sIFR and 
YoungPup's sliding menu script (but I'm pretty sure these are not the 
problem).

This is the page => http://www.vaska.com/a/
This is the css => http://www.vaska.com/a/css/c.css
And below is the css where I'm sure the problem resides.  It has 
something to do with the visited state of things but I'm drawing a 
blank right now.  Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.  v

ps: Hover over "menu/options" to get the menu.  If you are using IE on 
the pc the menu when it comes down it might look kind of crazy since I 
haven't yet applied the background stuff to it...

#navigation {
width: 700px;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
#navigation li {
list-style-type: none;
display: inline;
}
#navigation li a {
text-indent: -3000px;
height: 27px;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
border: 0;
}
#navigation li a#home {
float: left;
width: 40px;
background: url(../imgs/nav-home.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a#work {
float: left;
width: 35px;
background: url(../imgs/nav-work.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a#svcs {
float: left;
width: 53px;
background: url(../imgs/nav-svcs.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a#jrnl {
float: left;
width: 49px;
background: url(../imgs/nav-jrnl.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a#hello {
float: left;
width: 44px;
background: url(../imgs/nav-hello.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a#en {
float: right;
width: 19px;
background: url(../imgs/lang-en.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a#es {
float: right;
width: 19px;
background: url(../imgs/lang-es.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a#fr {
float: right;
width: 19px;
background: url(../imgs/lang-fr.gif) left top no-repeat;
}
#navigation li a:visited#home,
#navigation li a:visited#work,
#navigation li a:visited#svcs,
#navigation li a:visited#jrnl,
#navigation li a:visited#hello,
#navigation li a:visited#en,
#navigation li a:visited#es,
#navigation li a:visited#fr {
text-decoration: none;
border: 0;
}
#navigation li a:active#home,
#navigation li a:active#work,
#navigation li a:active#svcs,
#navigation li a:active#jrnl,
#navigation li a:active#hello,
#navigation li a:active#en,
#navigation li a:active#es,
#navigation li a:active#fr {
text-decoration: none;
border: 0;
}
#navigation li a:hover#home,
#navigation li a:hover#work,
#navigation li a:hover#svcs,
#navigation li a:hover#jrnl,
#navigation li a:hover#hello,
#navigation li a:hover#en,
#navigation li a:hover#es,
#navigation li a:hover#fr {
background-position: 0 -27px;
}
#navigation li.active a#home,
#navigation li.active a#work,
#navigation li.active a#svcs,
#navigation li.active a#jrnl,
#navigation li.active a#hello {
background-position: 0 -27px;
}
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Re: [WSG] Background does not show up

[Vaska . WSG]

Ah gee, after having this in the back of my head for two days I get a 
solution the second after I posted this (I'll wait three days in the 
future).  Unless somebody has a more solid solution (like exactly why 
it does that) this does the trick and doesn't get in the way of the 
design. ;)

Change the content margin spacing to the container padding spacing...
#container {
margin: 0;
padding: 150px 0 0 51px;
background: #cc;
}
#content {
width: 705px;
margin: 0 0 75px 0;
}

On Jan 21, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Vaska.WSG wrote:
Sorry, this is on an internal server that's not accessible to the 
outside.

I'm having a strange little bug that is showing up in Safari 1.2.4 
(oddly, it works fine in IE).  I have a  container div and then a 
content div inside of that.  The content div has a margin at the top 
of 150px.  When I have a background color applied to the container div 
it does not appear until the content div begins (so I have a 150px 
band of just the body background color.

This is basically how it's coded:


All the content stuff...


#container {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 51px;
background: #cc;
}
#content {
width: 705px;
margin: 150px 0 75px 0;
}
Strange enough, if I place a letter in the container div (like an 'a') 
it displays as it should (except with the a).  I really don't feel 
that I should need a hack for this...???

v
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[WSG] Background does not show up

[Vaska . WSG]

Sorry, this is on an internal server that's not accessible to the 
outside.

I'm having a strange little bug that is showing up in Safari 1.2.4 
(oddly, it works fine in IE).  I have a  container div and then a 
content div inside of that.  The content div has a margin at the top of 
150px.  When I have a background color applied to the container div it 
does not appear until the content div begins (so I have a 150px band of 
just the body background color.

This is basically how it's coded:


All the content stuff...


#container {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 51px;
background: #cc;
}
#content {
width: 705px;
margin: 150px 0 75px 0;
}
Strange enough, if I place a letter in the container div (like an 'a') 
it displays as it should (except with the a).  I really don't feel that 
I should need a hack for this...???

v
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Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry

[Vaska . WSG]

It's not beautiful if you zoom your text.
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Re: [WSG] Space problem in CSS menu with IE5.0

[Vaska . WSG]

Perhaps it's the line-height in #jour?  Looks like it's about 12px 
extra there...you might need to add that to "#jour a"...v

On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Antonio wrote:
I can't solved a space problem in a CSS menu that only affects IE5.0:
XHTML: http://kalimeo.com/menu
CSS: http://kalimeo.com/menu/menu.css
IE5.0 screenshot : http://kalimeo.com/menu/IE5.html
Any ideas?
Thanks for your help...
Antonio
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Re: [WSG] Looking for party animals

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

I'm signed up for the one in
Winnipeg, MB, Canada! :D Hopefully more will sign up!

Joseph Lindsay wrote:

  And for the Kiwis (Wellington):

http://www.openforce.at/mozparty2/?party=172


On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:51:40 +1000, Nigel McFarlane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
Dear OSIA and WSG members,

If you happen to:

- like Mozilla or Firefox Web browsers

- enjoy social occasions

- reside in one of these places in Oz:
- Adelaide (or SA)
- Canberra
- Tassie
- Darwin

and possibly know how to book a casual evening event,
then could you please get fired up?

Firefox 1.0 is about to turn zero and we're trying to
organise something in every state and territory in
Australia in November.

Currently organised parties are advertised here:

http://www.openforce.at/mozparty2/?view=AU

C'mon, join in! (and maybe win a book)

thanks, Nigel.

--
-
Nigel McFarlane   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Services:   Analysis, Programming, Writing, Education
Expertise:Software, Telecommunications, Internet, Physics
"Rapid Application Development with Mozilla" / www.nigelmcfarlane.com

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[WSG] Fw: AID website looking for proposals

[wsg . p . qxo]

Don't reply to me. I'm only the messenger.
But I'm also a member of AID and of this group. I really appreciate what
I've learned from this group, and I hope that someone here can mutually
benefit their organization and AID.

  --David


   Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004
20:10:19 -0500
   From: Brandi Mahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: AID Website

Hello folks! 

(please forward to any listserv or individuals you feel may be interested
in
this)

Austin Interpreters for the Deaf, aka AID, (a non-profit organization)
is
currently expanding their website and is in need of a graphic designer
to
design the main page.  We are interested in parties submitting bids
for the
job.  Deadline date for the bid is Friday, October 29th by 5:00pm.
 Please
provide the following information in your bid.

*Price to complete the assignment
*Terms of the contract
*Resume

Portfolios will need to be previewed by the Website committee chair by
October 29th.  A follow up preview of portfolio and interview for
the top 5
candidates will occur sometime in November.  Tentatively scheduled
for
November 16th.

Requirements of the contract:
    *Must be a local designer

Graphic design must be:
    * .psd format (photoshop)
    * incorporate actual photographs of genre
    * some element of rollover graphics
    * allow AID final design control (if webmaster needs to alter
.psd file
- layers unlocked)
    * 4 versions of the genre (all to become property of AID)
    
AID would like a genre to include images of Austin, the capital, texas
symbols (such as bluebonnets, texas star, texas flag, etc), pictorial symbol
of "interpreter", colors red, white, blue.

AID will allow for a tag line for the designer to get credit for his/her
work on the website.

Here is the address for the current website to get an idea what will be
included in the website. 

Bids may be mailed to 922 Berrywood Dr., Austin, Tx 78753 or faxed to
512-491-8608.  Appointments must be arranged in advance for portfolio
review.  Contact Brandi Mahon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 512-565-5319.

Thanks!

Brandi Mahon
AID Webmaster

Re: [WSG] proper header backgrounds

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

Thanks so muchh Amit! That worked
great, with a few modifications for my specific design. Thank you so
much!  8-) 


Jeremy S.
Author of JezzJournal
Co-Founder of Effuse



Amit Karmakar wrote:

  Jeremy, here goes. my $0.02


My Header


#banner {background-color: #ccc;
	background-image: url(header.jpg);
	background-repeat: repeat-x;
	font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;
	height: 60px;
	padding: 15px 0 15px 15px;
	text-align: left;
}
#banner a {color: #990; text-decoration: none;}
#banner h1 {font-size: xx-large;}

hope this helps.


On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:46:26 -0500, Jeremy S. (WSG) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
 I'm trying to make my header image be completely controlled by css, so if I
was to have a style switcher, it would be easily changed. I know this is
really easy, but I'm having trouble finding any information from google.
 
 Right now, I've got this.
 
 
 JezzJournal
 
 
 CSS
 
 #header {
 background: url(../images/header.jpg);
 width: widthofjpg;
 height: widthofjpg;
 }
 
 doesn't seem to be working, but I'm sure I'm doing it wrong. Thanks for all
your help! 8-) 
 
-- 
 
Jeremy S.
 Author of JezzJournal
 Co-Founder of Effuse
 

  
  

  



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[WSG] proper header backgrounds

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

I'm trying to make my header image
be completely controlled by css, so if I was to have a style switcher,
it would be easily changed. I know this is really easy, but I'm having
trouble finding any information from google.

Right now, I've got this.


    JezzJournal


CSS

#header {
    background: url(../images/header.jpg);
    width: widthofjpg;
    height: widthofjpg;
}

doesn't seem to be working, but I'm sure I'm doing it wrong. Thanks for
all your help!  8-) 

-- 
Jeremy S.
Author of JezzJournal
Co-Founder of Effuse



<>

[WSG] Web Site Structure Suggestions, Second Post!

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

To the many members of WSG:

This is my second post on this same subject, and I'm hoping that this
time I'll be able to get a response. 
:-)  I have built up a design in Photoshop, which you
can view here
or here.
I'm looking to get help on how I should write up the structure for the
site, as I'm a bit confused about the best way to attack it. So far,
this is what I have.

"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

    JezzJournal *new*





    
        JezzJournal
    
    
        sidebar links.
    
    
        links.
    
    
        all sorts of content here
    




What do you think? Would what I have be best for
what I'm trying to accomplish?


-- 
Jeremy S.
Author of JezzJournal
Co-Founder of Effuse



<>

Re: [WSG] introduction

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

Welcome John! I'm sure you'll fit
right in here. =)

john wrote:
Hello,
everybody.  I've been reading the list for a day or two, and I'm
  
very excited to be part of the growing number of designers/developers
  
who are taking a stand for standards.
  
  
A little bit about me:  I am originally from Seattle, Washington, USA,
  
but moved to Portugal in April, 2003, in order to get off the fast
track
  
and slow my pace a little (it helps that my wife is Portuguese *grin*).
  
 I've been a Web developer since 1995, and started off on the right
  
foot with learning HTML, coding by hand (via PICO), and using the tags
  
for what they were meant for (rather than what they did to the
  
appearance of a Web page).  In 1998, however, I went to work for the
  
Seattle Chamber of Commerce, who was naturally a strong supporter of
  
Microsoft -- the result was that I was forced to start using FrontPage
  
and Internet Explorer.  In 2002, I switched to Dreamweaver (which
  
permits me to hand-code again, with a few bells &
whistles)...and a
  
year ago I made Mozilla my default browser.  Having just bought and
  
devoured Jeffrey Zeldman's book, I am (again) a supporter and devout
  
follower of Web standards and plan to redesign all my sites as time
permits.
  
  
Seems that, while I have a solid background in HTML, a natural tendency
  
towards minimalist design, and some experience with CSS1, I have a lot
  
to learn regarding CSS2.  Forgive me, reader, for I have sinned against
  
tables...bastardizing them for layout and whitespace. :/  I have
  
repented and am slowly making my way towards the light, which is why I
  
have joined this list, as I hope to get support in my efforts.
  


-- 
Jeremy S.
Author of JezzJournal
Co-Founder of Effuse



<>

Re: [WSG] Accessible Odeon on BBC Radio 4

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

Just listened to this excellent
piece. They had a similar debate/questionaire on CBC Radio One a few
months back, unfortunately, it is not avaliable online.  :-( 

Charles Roper wrote:

  Today I heard a short piece on BBC Radio 4's Today programme talking
about Matthew Somerville's Accessible Odeon site and web accessibility
in general. Worth a listen (requires RealPlayer):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today5_business_20040921.ram

Good to hear accessibility issues such as this reaching the mainstream media.
  


-- 
Jeremy S.
Author of JezzJournal
Co-Founder of Effuse



<>

[WSG] New Design Structure

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

Hey there. I'm currently working on
a design, and have finished the look of it (almost competely), which
you can view here.  http://effuse.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=461#461
Now, my question regards how to properly take this design and mark it
up.

This is what I'm thinking basically, at this time.


    
       (blank, as I want to imbed the header.jpg in CSS)
    
    
       (side bar information)
    
    
       
          (navigation information)
       
       
           (all content goes here)
       
    


Of course, if it is any other way, or if there is a better way to mark
it up, please let me know. I'm looking for the best way to do it, which
will cause the least issues possible.

-- 
Jeremy S.
Author of JezzJournal
Co-Founder of Effuse



<>

Re: [WSG] Moz vs. FF

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

I apologize for the repeat message.
My mistake.  :-( 
 
Jeremy S. (WSG) wrote:

  
  Hey there.
  
I find that when I do so, even with my site, it simply breaks my site
design. It's when I click on the EditCSS button that such happens. It
doesn't seem to happen with many other sites, just mine. Would that be
a problem with my CSS code?
  
Matt Andrews wrote:
  
... and, if you're using the Web Developer extension, Firefox has a
huge advantage over Mozilla: the "Edit CSS" feature - a must for any
CSS developer!

load a page, choose "Edit CSS", and a sidebar opens with the CSS
files.  edit them and see the results *instantly* in the browser. 
save the CSS files out to disk.  bliss :)


On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:50:22 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
  

  Mozilla has a more mature UI, besides bundling not only mailnews but
also IRC chat, address book, and web page composer. Firefox is less
mature, but offers more customizability of the UI itself, separate from
any extensions you may choose to add. FF, being smaller, runs slightly
faster. So, which to pick depends on personal preferences as to look and
feel and minor functionality, in addition to whether you need or want
the bundled apps. Either way you choose, you'll want the web developer
extension: http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/webdeveloper


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Re: [WSG] Moz vs. FF

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

Hey there.

I find that when I do so, even with my site, it simply breaks my site
design. It's when I click on the EditCSS button that such happens. It
doesn't seem to happen with many other sites, just mine. Would that be
a problem with my CSS code?

Matt Andrews wrote:

  ... and, if you're using the Web Developer extension, Firefox has a
huge advantage over Mozilla: the "Edit CSS" feature - a must for any
CSS developer!

load a page, choose "Edit CSS", and a sidebar opens with the CSS
files.  edit them and see the results *instantly* in the browser. 
save the CSS files out to disk.  bliss :)


On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:50:22 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
  
  
Mozilla has a more mature UI, besides bundling not only mailnews but
also IRC chat, address book, and web page composer. Firefox is less
mature, but offers more customizability of the UI itself, separate from
any extensions you may choose to add. FF, being smaller, runs slightly
faster. So, which to pick depends on personal preferences as to look and
feel and minor functionality, in addition to whether you need or want
the bundled apps. Either way you choose, you'll want the web developer
extension: http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/webdeveloper

  
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Re: [WSG] Moz vs. FF

[Jeremy S. (WSG)]

Hey there.

I find that when I do so, even with my site, it simply breaks my site
design. It's when I click on the EditCSS button that such happens. It
doesn't seem to happen with many other sites, just mine. Would that be
a problem with my CSS code?

Matt Andrews wrote:

  ... and, if you're using the Web Developer extension, Firefox has a
huge advantage over Mozilla: the "Edit CSS" feature - a must for any
CSS developer!

load a page, choose "Edit CSS", and a sidebar opens with the CSS
files.  edit them and see the results *instantly* in the browser. 
save the CSS files out to disk.  bliss :)


On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:50:22 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
  
  
Mozilla has a more mature UI, besides bundling not only mailnews but
also IRC chat, address book, and web page composer. Firefox is less
mature, but offers more customizability of the UI itself, separate from
any extensions you may choose to add. FF, being smaller, runs slightly
faster. So, which to pick depends on personal preferences as to look and
feel and minor functionality, in addition to whether you need or want
the bundled apps. Either way you choose, you'll want the web developer
extension: http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/webdeveloper

  
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[WSG] A proper way to style images?

[Vaska . WSG]

I have an image that I'm dropping into a paragraph that I want to align 
to the left and wrap the text around it.  Easy enough...


Now, this does the job but the top of the image is about 5 pixels above 
the top of the line.  I can easily adjust this with margin or padding, 
but is there a better way to do this?  Does there exist some commonly 
known quantity of pixels that needs to be adjusted for so we can level 
text and image tops?

Thanks, v
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Re: [WSG] WSG Melbourne Meeting tonight

[wsg]

I have finally posted the notes from last Mondays presentation in Melbourne
on using XSLT to produce websites.
(Sorry for the delay.)

It includes more details about using XSLT and some concrete examples for
those that have asked for them.

The url is http://woric.net/wsg_presentation

The notes have been split into 2 parts:
- part 1 is an overview of XSLT with some examples
- part 2 covers the CMS functionality, with some code examples

If you have questions or comments after reading through the presentation,
then please contact me off list or via my website. (http://woric.net)

woric

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RE: [WSG] AntiSpam Alert from tbrick52

[Jeremy S. @ WSG]

Title: AntiSpam Alert: Request For Authentication








apple

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: August 21, 2004 2:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] AntiSpam Alert from
tbrick52
Importance: High



 



Hi,
this is tbrick52.
Your recent email has been delivered to my computer, but because you're not yet
in my trusted senders list, it hasn't been placed in my inbox. To get added to
my trusted senders list, please reply to this message with my AntiSpam
passcode.

Here's all you have to do:

  1. Press Reply
  2. In the body of the reply, type in my AntiSpam Passcode: 

  3. Press Send.

When I receive this reply, I will know that it was really you that sent me the
email and not a computerized spammer. I will then be able to read all your
mail. This authentication will be done only once.

Thank you & have a great day,
tbrick52 







Bongosoft
AntiSpam authenticates the SENDER of each incoming email. Using our
patent-pending Passcode
Authentication Technoloy Bongosoft AntiSpam is unmatched at spam
elimination while providing you with total control of your incoming email. 

For more information about Bongosoft AntiSpam, please visit us at www.bongosoft.com
X-Bongosoft-AntiSpamRFA ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 








<>

[WSG] Some Problems in IE (what else?)

[Jeremy S. @ WSG]

Hey everyone,

 

Haven’t been too active on the whole web development
front for quite some time, so I’m having trouble executing some things
that I want to get done. I’ve recently been working on a revision of the
design for my main site (www.jezzjournal.com)
because there are issues in IE, and it needs to look better as my skills
progress. =)

 

I’ve been working on the design located at http://www.affectus.net/freelance/2004_07_jezzjournal/
and as you can see, I’ve been changing how things look, trying to “shine
the apple” per say.

 

Problem is, in IE the sidebar really messes up. Instead of
the  tag aligning nicely, it has about 10px of space on the left side
in IE 6.0, and it hides some of the  tags! I’m really
not sure how to fix this without ruining alignment in Firefox (my testing
browser).

 

Also, in the comments section of my new design, you may
notice I’ve played with how the comments appear (the ol li stuff). In
Firefox, I’ve got it almost looking like what I want, but in IE 6.0 for
some reason it adds a lot of extra space, and it doesn’t look as good. =/


 

And, problem 3. In my current design, when I use the class
“imgleft” to separate my pictures from the post, it breaks my
sidebar in IE6.0. For an example, please check out this page http://www.jezzjournal.com/?s=imgleft
. I want to avoid this in my revision, so if you could figure out a way to fix
this, which I’m sure is the boxhack, that would be great. I would like to
know how to get the box model hack working my revision design as well, I have
never really understood it. =/

 

Thanks so much for your help with my three issues, I know
it’s a lot, but I really hope you guys can help. I’m so frustrated
with IE! Ack!

 

» Jeremy Shields

www.jezzjournal.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

 

RE: [WSG] [OT] Internet Explorer Weblog

[Jeremy S. @ WSG]

It's great to see they -may- be opening up to the community, but I really do
not forsee any great changes in the IE philosophy by Microsoft. They see 85%
of market, and are happy with just that and a few security updates.

I'd hate to work for Microsoft. Well, maybe not, they pay well don't they?

Jeremy
www.jezzjournal.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Krassy
Sent: July 23, 2004 1:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] [OT] Internet Explorer Weblog

There is an ounce of hope that IE might listen to what
the world is waiting for. Let the IE developers know
that we would love to see an upgraded IE browser with
better web standards support.

IEBlog - the Microsoft Internet Explorer Weblog:

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/

Cheers,
Krassy

=
Krassy Lyakov


web: http://www.krassy.com/
blog: http://www.krassycandoit.com/blah/



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Re: [WSG] WSG Melbourne: Quick Poll

[wsg]

How about monthly? Its very easy to remember.

eg: first Mon of each month.

woric

- Original Message - 
From: "afdesign" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:53 AM
Subject: [WSG] WSG Melbourne: Quick Poll


> Hey there all Melbourne members of this list.
> 
> At the last meeting of the Melbourne WSG, it was suggested that we meet 
> more frequently.
> 
> Currently we are meeting every 8 weeks.
> 
> The alternatives are:
> 
> 1. Meet every 4 weeks
> 2. Meet every 6 weeks
> 
> If you have a strong feeling either way, please send your thoughts to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Of course feel free to use this opportunity to give us any other 
> feedback/suggestions (such as future speakers, how we run meetings, our 
> fashion sense etc.)
> 
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS LIST
> 
> You have till Monday 5pm, to have your say.
> 
> cheers
> dez
> Melbourne WSG Co-Organiser
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RE: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[wsg . p . qxo]

Dan Webb,

What a nice contribution to our community.
I really appreciate the way you packaged everything (css, js, html, example)
into one clean, concise, clearly illustrative source. You do lovely work.

Thank you.
  --David

Re: [WSG] Next WSG Melbourne Meeting Monday June 28

[wsg]

> Just a reminder that the next WSG Melbourne Meeting is this Monday June
28.

Another meeting already... time flies when you're busy.

Unfortunately I will be out of town next Mon and unable to attend, but I do
promise to be in town for the next meeting.

woric

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RE: [WSG] Must Read

[Jeremy S. @ WSG]

I took a look at the example page, and in FireFox .9 and a broadband
connection, it took a good couple of seconds before the images showed up
properly. I was considering using some sort of image replacement for my new
design of my journal, and I was highly considering this one. But I'm really
not sure at this point.

I really do agree with the idea of accessibility, and this seems to limit
that.

Jeremy
- www.jezzjournal.com
- [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bert Doorn
Sent: June 16, 2004 12:20 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Must Read


Whatever the technique, using images for headings is, to me, backward,
"pixel perfect", print thinking.

I visited the site - I only have a modem connection.  I dind't like the way
the headings disappeared, got replaced with image placeholders which
slwly filled up with text that was there in the first place.  

Perhaps I am a lone voice in the desert, but why go back to 1990's style
websites when we have CSS?  Is it necessary to make people wait, just so you
can show them the font YOU like (and they might not be able to see anyway)? 


Regards
-- 
Bert Doorn, Better Web Design
www.betterwebdesign.com.au
Fast-loading, user-friendly websites

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[WSG] CSS Menu Issues - Client Site

[Jeremy S. @ WSG]

Hello there.

 

I’m developing a site for a local hat shop, and I’m
having some problems with the menu. If you could please take a look at the
following link: http://www.affectus.net/freelance/2004_05_phathats/

 

Here are the issues I am experiencing:

1)  I would
like for the navigation to stretch 100% of the width (750px). I will style the
a:active stuff later, once the base is aligned the way I would like.

2)  I notice
there is a break between the different “boxes” of the navigation. I’d
like to know how to get rid of these things. 

3)  In
Firefox .8 (which I test on), I find that there is a break in the white
background right about where the navigation is. I would like to make a solid
white background from header to footer.

 

Thanks so much for your time. I hope you guys can figure
it out, I’ve been banging my head on the table for the last two hours. 

 

Jeremy Shields

www.jezzjournal.com

www.affectus.net

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

RE: [WSG] What Editors do you guys use?

[Jeremy S. @ WSG]

I use the code view in Dreamweaver MX 2004, and I do a lot of hand coding
still. I also have used TopStyle from time to time, great little utility. =)

Jeremy S.
www.jezzjournal.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of helmut
Sent: June 5, 2004 11:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] What Editors do you guys use?

What CSS/XHTML/HTML editors do you guys use for hand coding and testing?




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[WSG] lotus domino vs doctype

[wsg . p . qxo]

Sadly, with Lotus Domino the only reliable
way to control DOCTYPE (as far as I can tell) is to generate the entire
page from scratch with an agent. If your first print is a DOCTYPE, then
Domino won't generate headers. But if you use Forms you get stuck with
what Domino decides is best for you.

But if you have to go to that trouble,
"Why use Domino at all?" one might begin to wonder.
  --David

RE: [WSG] Accessibility software

[Jeremy S. @ WSG]

Hello Amit,

I'm sort of confused by your question. Do you mean something that tests your
code for validation according to the doctype? If you are looking for
something like that, the WC3 Validator is great. 

Or do you mean software? Like TopStyle / Dreamweaver etc?

Jeremy S.
www.jezzjournal.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Amit Karmakar
Sent: June 1, 2004 10:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Accessibility software

 People,

A few questions regarding accessibility.

I am thinking of buying a software for testing Accessibility for sites.
Presently I test it through Firefox's Web Developer extension which uses
"Cynthia says" http://www.cynthiasays.com/accverifycs/index.html

My questions

Is this the best Accessibility software to buy?
What are my other options?
How well does cynthia Says rate for testing Accessibility to Australian
standards?
Are there any particular softwares recommended from the Australian
standpoint as far as 508 and WAI is concerned?

Thanks for your inputs.

Amit Karmakar
www.karmakars.com


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[WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

[wsg . p . qxo]

I second j.neen's suggestion for a tread-based
forum.

Also, I prefer an RSS feed of the thread
as my way to review.

  --David

Re: [WSG] back to basics

[wsg]

> Excuse me for possibly subtracting from the sum of human knowledge,
> but I don't recall reading in the original problem statement that it
> had to be a *semantic* single quote, which means the entity '
> would do just fine.

My apologies,

I presumed that Justin had already checked the existing XHTML entities and
couldnt find one.

You are correct that ' is available in XHHTML and is defined as
character 39... though only when you are using ISO Latin character sets.

So, yes, ' is a better solution than the one I posted.

> Perhaps somebody can tell me whether or not it's an urban legend
> (for once the Microsoft XML documentation is obscure) that putting
> on an XML header automatically gets you ' regardless of DTD?

Using  only gets you 3 entities... < > and &

All extra entities must be declared in a DTD but the XHTML DTD declares
alot of them so using a XHTML DTD gets you all the entities you should
need... inlcuding '

woric

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Re: [WSG] javascript form submission

[wsg]

If you are an ASP coder and want to move to Linux then why not 
use ASP.NET? It will be a much easier learning curve than PHP.
 
FYI: Many ASP.NET pages run on Mono [C# compiler for Linux] 
including web services, and many DotNet apps run without modification. 

 
The Mono website is http://mono.org.
 
woric
 
 Original Message - Nancy Johnson wrote:

  Dear All,

This is a side track to this thread: I have always used .asp for form
submission, but I want to find a _javascript_ and/or php versions of form
submissions in case I have to do a site that does not have a windows
based server.
  I think PHP is the way to go, since it works on almost 
  all servers out there, including Windows. 

Re: [WSG] back to basics

[wsg]

>> I can't find a way of escaping a single quote inside the attribute,

>> The simple answer seems to be use double quotes for all attributes, so
>> that at least the nested double quotes can be replaced with a "
>> entity, but I can't believe this is my only option -- am I missing
>> something??

Hi Justin,

You can either:

a) use the appropriate type of quote (single or double) for each attribute
and not to religously stick to one or the other.

b ) declare an entity in an inline DTD declaration at the top of the
document to signify a single quote.
eg:




]>

You can now refer to single quotes as &sq;

woric

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Re: [WSG] old browser download site?

[wsg]

Hi Kevin,

Try:

http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/94.php

Multi older versions of IE + instructions on how to get them to all play 
nice on one machine.

Brian



Kevin McMonagle wrote:

Hi all,
I need older browsers for testing sites.
Is there anywhere i can download ie windows pre version 6?
They are not available at mircrosofts site.
thanks
-Kevin
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Re: [WSG] Design Philosophy

[Vaska . WSG]

I'm following behind the curve on this one as it seems people have put 
this to rest.  However, I really do not want to be grouped into a 
category of people who believe in standards above all else.  I am a 
print designer first and foremost.

My response, below, was really more about shock than anything else.  I 
couldn't believe that somebody would propose to take the visual design 
out of things.  If that were the case, I would probably stop building 
websites tommorrow.  In reality, it would need to be much higher than 
7% to get me to stop building websites.  I would just stop using CSS 
first...

Anyways, we were dealing with an article from 1999 (or so) - things 
become antiquated rather quickly.  Having worked in a few design shops 
I can say that group discussions about design 'philosphies' tend to 
become pedagogical exercises rather quickly as every job you ever do 
will likely be unique.

On 12 May 2004, at 18:04, P.H.Lauke wrote:

Yes, but are there any really hard statistics about what the
public is
doing.  We know roughly 7% don't use or diable javascript.  But what
about disabling styles?

Why is that relevant? Heck, it's almost like we're going back to the
old "how many % of users still run at 800x600...lamers"
We know it's 7% ? Do we ? Lies, statistics and lies...it always comes
down to *your* particular audience.
Yes, we have to give up a level of control on how our pages are 
presented
(if you want pixel perfect, go back to print, or use flash/PDF/etc), 
but
we gain flexible delivery based on user preferences. We're not forcing 
our
visual sensibilities onto users that don't want them (e.g. those 
surfing
with a simple text browsers couldn't give a damn about lines and lines 
of
markup relating to presentation, or stylesheets). However, that's 
obviously
*not* the same as saying that we should therefore not care about 
presentation
at all.


P
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Re: [WSG] reference entity "year" end with ; ???

[Vaska . WSG]

Thanks Justin,

It's clear to me.  But what I can't figure out is why I've never 
noticed this one before?  Really...I'm just amazed this hasn't crossed 
my path before...

It will probably only take a couple of hours to make all the changes, 
not very much in the grand scheme of things...v

On 12 May 2004, at 17:29, Justin French wrote:

Vaska,

The answer is simple.  Your URLs contain ampersands (&), which are a 
character which cannot be used directly in HTML.  Why?  Because it's 
used for entities, like & and © and —.

Without boring you with the details, you need to use 
"?month=4&year=2004&a=Home", not "?month=4&year=2004&a=Home" 
to pass validation (hence write well-formed HTML).

No, the validator is not broken or wrong.
Yes, I know every book tells you to use a plain ampersand.
Yes I know it works in most browsers and situations today, but plain 
ampersands are not correct :)

If it's a huge deal to re-write your application at this point, you 
might consider writing a quick function (in PHP, I'd use ob_start() 
with a call back function with a regex to replace all the problematic 
ampersands in URLs on the way to the browser), but your mileage may 
vary.  You're better off getting it right now, rather than relying on 
such a beast.

Justin
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Re: [WSG] Design Philosophy

[Vaska . WSG]

Yes, but are there any really hard statistics about what the public is 
doing.  We know roughly 7% don't use or diable javascript.  But what 
about disabling styles?

On 12 May 2004, at 16:13, Jeremy Flint wrote:

On the web, you really have NO control over your site once it is 
public. Users have the ability to disable styles, images, apply 
different fonts and colors that override yours. The only thing you 
truly have control over is the information and the code behind it.

All asthetic aspects of a site are open to whether a user wants to see 
them.
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Re: [WSG] reference entity "year" end with ; ???

[Vaska . WSG]

Thanks, all of this is just making more stupid by the second... ;)

On 12 May 2004, at 17:15, Chatham, Will wrote:

What it's trying to say is that you need to change your '&' to the 
'&'
entity in your URL's.  The XHTML validator is trying to parse &year, 
which
isn't valid.  Check out this (Section C12) for more info:
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/

Will Chatham
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[WSG] reference entity "year" end with ; ???

[Vaska . WSG]

It's frustrating as it can be very difficult to find information about 
these things via Google.
Anyways, I'm getting alot of error messages when I validate - in 
particular I'm getting messages like this:

7.  	Line 50, column 40: cannot generate system identifier for general 
entity "year"
«

8.  	Line 50, column 40: general entity "year" not defined and no 
default entity
«

9.  	Line 50, column 44: reference not terminated by REFC delimiter
«

10.  	Line 50, column 44: reference to external entity in attribute 
value
«

11.  	Line 50, column 44: reference to entity "year" for which no 
system identifier could be generated
«

12.  	Line 50, column 39: entity was defined here
«

Oi vey, wondering what I'm doing with this stuff anymore...
Can somebody shed some light on these messages?
v

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Re: [WSG] Problems with tables and two fixed-width columns

[Vaska . WSG]

Since it seems like a rather common problem...

My solution certainly required the box model hack.  Plus instead of 
left and right floats I used only left floats.  All my column widths 
are obviously fixed.  Perhaps things were helped by the fact that only 
one of the tables required a width of 100% also.

It's all working (and tested) very nicely now...v

ps:  I've never used a mail list to search for problems.  But now that 
I have 3,087 WSG messages in this mailbox I can usually search the 
subject or message body and find solutions to problems - it's really 
quite cool.  Thanks WSG...


On 11 May 2004, at 15:41, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:

For one - you have a width defined container (#middle) next to a 
floated box, this is sometimes (hmm) problematic in IE - the 3px jog 
is messing things up.


Do you think so?  I have a space in between the left and middle divs 
that is left empty...it's about 15px wide...nothing occupies this 
zone...

Reading, reading, reading...v

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Re: [WSG] Problems with tables and two fixed-width columns

[Vaska . WSG]

On 11 May 2004, at 15:41, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:

For one - you have a width defined container (#middle) next to a 
floated box, this is sometimes (hmm) problematic in IE - the 3px jog 
is messing things up.


Do you think so?  I have a space in between the left and middle divs 
that is left empty...it's about 15px wide...nothing occupies this 
zone...

Reading, reading, reading...v

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[WSG] Problems with tables and two fixed-width columns

[Vaska . WSG]

I'm having the wost time right now trying to get IE to handle this test 
page.  I have two columns and inside of each column is a table (one of 
which has a width of 100%).  But IE just will not allow both tables to 
align side-by-side.  I have the box model hack in here to control the 
widths of the columns but it's not working...

I'm really at a loss for what to do/try next with this...

Sample page (it's been validated but there are errors with onclicks and 
alt tags which I didn't bother correcting for the moment)...it's also 
quite ugly as I put in some styles so I could visually see what what 
going on...

Oh yeah, I have a textarea in there as well as this is really where 
things began - so I thought I would just try to solve both at the same 
time (but I do believe the textarea issue has been resolved).

http://www.vaska.com/help/

Any help would be much appreicated, thanks...v

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Re: [WSG] Textarea problem

[Vaska . WSG]

This is really a pain.  The problem I can see is that with a liquid 
layout I need to specify an actual width for the middle column (the 
left and right columns both being fixed-width) - so the solution is not 
so easy.   Holly's hack didn't work and besides I rarely use hacks as I 
generally simplify things to a point where I either don't need them or 
I can go around the problem.

As for this problem, M$/IE wins again, I'll go back to two columns for 
this particular part of things.

Thanks for the input...v

On 10 May 2004, at 03:41, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:

On May 9, 2004, at 11:14 pm, Vaska.WSG wrote:

I'm having a problem with a textarea.  It will display properly on 
the page (which has three div columns) but when a person begins to 
input data it automatically expands (to the right) so it occupies two 
columns instead of just the middle column.  I've never seen anything 
like this before...



.t1 {
display:inline;  <- this is a tip I got from the mail list
width:98%;
height:125px;
}
I've seen this more when using percentage based width (and the same 
happens to tables, but mostly in quirks mode).
One solution is to have a width (or height [1]) explicitly declared on 
the direct parent container.

[1] height:1% on that parent container would be OK, but only served to 
IE Windows, by using the 'Holly' hack.
Hack explained down this page

---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : 
code | design | web projects : 
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : 

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[WSG] Textarea problem

[Vaska . WSG]

I'm having a problem with a textarea.  It will display properly on the 
page (which has three div columns) but when a person begins to input 
data it automatically expands (to the right) so it occupies two columns 
instead of just the middle column.  I've never seen anything like this 
before...



.t1 {
display:inline;  <- this is a tip I got from the mail list
width:98%;
height:125px;
}
I've validated the code and this problem seems consistent in IE6 in 
windows 2000.

Has anybody experience this same problem?  I could post more code for 
this but I'll wait and see if there might be an easy solution to this 
first.

Thanks, v

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[WSG] Validator Question re SHORTTAG YES

[Vaska . WSG]

I'm not sure what this means actually.  This is from a table in my code 
which is for tabular data, not for layout.  ???

Am I correct in assuming that the validator does not like the 'nowrap'? 
 And that probably being the case, and since I do need it, is there 
some other betther method for pulling this off?

From http://validator.w3.org/:
2.  	Line 65, column 23:  the name and VI delimiter can be omitted from 
an attribute specification only if SHORTTAG YES is specified

Updated
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Re: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May

[wsg]

Hey Cameron,

that's exactly what I was thinking... where did the last 2 months go.

See you tonight.

woric

- Original Message - 
From: "Cameron Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:14 AM
Subject: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May


> Is the Melbourne meeting really May 3? (like it says
> on the web site) If so, it snuck up quick!
> 
> --
> Cameron Adams
> 
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Re: [WSG] XML Includes?

[wsg]

Mark Stanton wrote:
 
> Could you convert:> > 
>    
mycontent>    
mycontent> > 
> into:> > >    
mycontent>    mycontent> > > 
using XSL?
 
Mark (and Scott),
 
not having noticed the original post I'm a bit out of the loop 
on this discussion, but the Xsl below does the transformation with the fewest of 
lines of code possible.
 
    
http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform">
    
 
                     
  
     

 

 
woric
 
PS: If you need a Xsl transformation tool and are using a 
ASP.NET box try XsltFilter (http://xsltfilter.tigris.org). If you are using 
Linux there are lots of Xslt tools for apache and 
java.

Re: [WSG] XML Includes?

[wsg]

Mark Stanton wrote:
 
> Could you convert:> > 
>    
mycontent>    
mycontent> > 
> into:> > >    
mycontent>    mycontent> > > 
using XSL?
 
Mark (and Scott),
 
not having noticed the original post I'm a bit out of the loop 
on this discussion, but the Xsl below does the transformation with the fewest of 
lines of code possible.
 
    
http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform">
    
 
                     
  
     

 

 
woric
 
PS: If you need a Xsl transformation tool and are using a 
ASP.NET box try XsltFilter (http://xsltfilter.tigris.org). If you are using 
Linux there are lots of Xslt tools for apache and 
java.

[WSG] Improved digest format

[wsg . p . qxo]

I subscribe to the digest form of this
discussion list. The key idea for a digest preference is to scan the information
as efficiently as possible, looking for items of interest, and in this
way try to fit the pertinent items from this discussion into a busy day.

What are the possibilities for an improved,
more efficient digest format for this list? Currently, it starts off with
almost a screen's worth of administrivia -- stuff usually located at the
end of a digest, and it has no form of table of contents.

  --David

[WSG] advice re min-height

[Vaska . WSG]

I'm not sure if my understanding of min-height is correct.  What I want 
to do is set a min-height on a div and then when there is too much info 
it will automatically expand itself.

Apparently, I need to use height as well for M$ browsers but what I 
don't quite understand is how do the other browsers properly interpret 
that when you have both a height and a min-height...?

Wouldn't it possibly be easier to just use height and then 
overflow:visible to achieve the same effect?

I can test around with this but I'm curious if there is a best-practice 
for this kind of thing...

Thanks for any thoughts...v

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Re: [WSG] WSG Design competition is now open

[wsg]

> As mentioned a week or so ago, We are introducing a design competition for
> members.

Russ,

Excellent news about the competition, however I have a question about the
voting system.

You say "All members will only be allowed one vote (though you can change
your vote). "

My question is will the voting results will be kept secret until the voting
finishes, or will they be known before voting closes so we can change our
vote accordingly?

It might make a big difference as to whether or not the poll reflects the
true intentions of the group.

woric

PS: Secret is bad. Big bad.

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[WSG] hiding clear:both ?

[Vaska . WSG]

I hate to ask a dumb question, but I can't find any information about 
this altough I'm pretty sure I've read about this someplace.

What I'm trying to do is use

 

.cl {
clear:both;
}
But the sticky part is that I don't want it to add the extra line 
space.  I'm not sure of the best way to do this.  I believe I need to 
have something inside of the div tags (?) and I've tried messing with 
visibility:hidden but that threw some more unexpected glitches at me 
(well, I was getting two separate lines instead of both on the same 
line).

Anybody have a good method for doing this?

Thanks...v

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Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)

[Vaska . WSG]

Thanks all,

I guess the many explanations explain just why I've never done it with 
pure CSS before.  I'll go back to my javascript and have a coke and a 
smile.

;)

On 31 Mar 2004, at 07:28, scott parsons wrote:

Well it depends upon the exact behaviour desired, and the browsers you 
want to support, but something like this can be done with the :focus, 
:target or  for win/ie the broken model of :active

I wouldn't necessarily suggest that any of these methods are perfect, 
and would reccommend javascript but hey there are possibilities there

s

P.H.Lauke wrote:

What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to
avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page 
needs to
keep track of which link has been pressed, for instance...something 
that
CSS is not meant for...
Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster
University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk

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[WSG] How to do some things

[Vaska . WSG]

Hi WSG...

I've searched through my email archives and I can't dig up a good 
discussion on this, although I know that it must exist someplace in 
here.

I'm trying to find a method for showing/hiding layers using CSS which 
doesn't use javascript if it's possible (?).  Ideally, a layer (let's 
call it A) would automatically show when a page loads, then when a link 
is clicked it would disappear and B would replace it.  Then, another 
link would show A again and hide B, etc.

I know of a Microsoft-only method for doing this, but not something 
that will work on all modern browsers.

Any links or tutorials regarding this would be muchos gracias.

Thanks...v

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Re: [WSG] Trimming the fat

[Vaska . WSG]

I haven't been following how things are going on PHP5, but do we have a 
target on when this might be a full stable release (and then have to 
really start dealing with it)?

v

On 25 Mar 2004, at 06:38, Justin French wrote:

PHP5 looks to have some VERY NICE features in the form of Tidy, which 
amongst other things, will help clean up HTML output -- either on the 
way to the browser, or with batch-processing.  It can even drop 
proprietary tags and elements, drop font tags, clean up your CSS, and 
much more.

It won't fix Java, bloated images and flash, or truckloads of 
presentational tables and all that guff, but it's a nice feature I'll 
be sure to try when PHP 5 is stable.

http://www.zend.com/php5/articles/php5-tidy.php

---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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Re: [WSG] Serving XHTML as application/xhtml+xml

[wsg]

>I think we're saying the same thing. XHTML is XML and the latest XHTML spec
>(with the exception of maybe 4 tags) cleanly separates formatting from
data.

I think we are too, and maybe I need to look into XHTML again.


> XSLT is a wonderful language but it has nothing to do with separating
> presentation from content.  XSLT does one thing and one thing only - it
> transforms in input document into an output document based on rules.

You are 100% right about this. With hindsight I should said... "One of the
benefits in using XSLT for making web sites is that you can keep the content
and the presentation totally seperate."




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Re: [WSG] Serving XHTML as application/xhtml+xml

[wsg]

> Depending on the type of document (FAQs, press release, staff list, etc),
> they run an XSLT to re-format the content.  For example, for FAQs, the
XSLT
> goes through each header, anchors it and creates a list of hyperlinks at
the
> top of the page to jump to each FAQ. You can only do this if you author
your
> content in XHTML.

Sorry to be a pedant, but this statement is misleading and in my opinion,
not very good advice.

Using XSLT to transform a document is not limited to XHTML, and using XHTML
as the source for XSLT is taking one step forward so you can take 2 steps
backwards. One of the main benefits of using XSLT is that it seperates the
presentation [the HTML] and the content, which wont happen if you use XHTML.

My advice for keeping presentation and content seperate, which is what vlad
is promoting here, though he doesnt know that, is to author in XML and then
use XSLT to create the HTML for you.

For example, write the faq in Xml:


The answer goes in here.


Then apply a XSLT script to transform this into a valid Html document.

woric

PS: I do this on every website I make. See http://xsltfilter.tigris.org

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