kirby urner wrote:
>>kirby urner
>>
>>Kirby - question 1. Do you understand why your messages are coming to me as
>>html? Makes it difficult to reply in normal form.
>>
>>
>
>No, didn't realize. Using Google's gmail. How about this one?
>
>
>
Not sure, because I am now at a machine using
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Arthur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Well I have found the IDLE-Dev list to be a bit of a sink hole.
> >
For those who don't follow it, the most recent post to the IDLE-dev list
was, to me, interesting.
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/idle-dev/2006-Feb
Art,
You've made your feelings about turtle.py abundantly clear. I would only
suggest that (contrary to your implications) we benighted individuals
who actually use the module in teaching and want improve it are also
passionate, moral and even (perhaps) intelligent. Or at least we deserve
the
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Vern Ceder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >However if our discussion of the module bothers you that
> >much, I'm happy to move it to off of this list.
How about responding to some of my substantive points.
Or are you saying you don't perceive any?
Starti
Arthur wrote:
> Starting with:
>
> What is the importance of having your improved module part of the standard
> distribution?
Teachers in many school situations don't even have control of what
software is on the machines their students use. They need to request an
installation from tech suppo
- Original Message -
From: Vern Ceder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Why, yes, I am actually... didn't you get the memo on that?
>
The memo I apparently didn't get is the one change the PEP rules. Heretofore
they have been understood to be necessary to open community discussion about a
chang
To: 'Vern Ceder'; 'Arthur'
Cc: edu-sig@python.org
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] IDLE wish (was Edu-sig Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16)
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Vern Ceder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >However if our discussion of the module bothers you tha
- Original Message -
From: Vern Ceder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I was asked submit the enhacements by Raymond Hettinger. I
> foolishly
> thought it might be good to ask for input on the nature of the
> improvements before doing so. If you want to have an argument
> about
> whethe turt
Arthur schrieb:
>
>
>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Arthur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
> One argument against an "official" turtle.py module, is that it will be the
> Phone Company's Turtle, and the forces of agility and merit will be lost.
> To me it is better if folks wanting a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Vern Ceder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>>I was asked submit the enhacements by Raymond Hettinger. I
>>foolishly
>>thought it might be good to ask for input on the nature of the
>>improvements before doing so. If you want to have a
I think it would be a real shame if this discussion moved off-list,
and a failure of the lists purpose. Turtle graphics have been a
mainstay of computers in education for years and have proved their
worth in that regard. The turtle.py module is minimal, and isn't
going to be taken out of the stan
- Original Message -
From: Gregor Lingl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, March 3, 2006 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] IDLE wish (was Edu-sig Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16)
> Arthur schrieb:
>
> Some of them feel, that the module is not adequate for their needs and
&g
Dethe Elza wrote:
> Back to the subject of improved turtles, I think there could be a
> two-pronged approach. The first prong would be to provide incremental
> improvements to the existing turtle.py (and possibly IDLE) within the
> standard distribution...
Along this prong, how about a list of
In a message of Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:58:20 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>I have stated that I thought that the current module, as it is, was an a
>ppropriate proof
>of concept. It would never occur to me that Guido would not put the modul
>e he thought
>most appropriate in his distribution. He ha
> The turtle.py module is minimal, and isn't going to be taken out of the
> standard
> distribution just because Arthur or Kirby don't like it.
I never ever said I "don't like" turtle.py nor did I suggest deleting
it from the Standard Library. Not once.
I discussed it's being broken on Windows
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >Behalf Of Dethe Elza
> >Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:45 PM
> >To: Gregor Lingl
> >Cc: Arthur; edu-sig@python.org
> >Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] IDLE wish (was Edu-
On 3/3/06, Gregor Lingl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> There are really many interesting questions to discuss and that is not
> possible in a fruitful athmosphere on a list where two people who do
> more than 50% of the overall postings (in terms of number not to speak
> of volume, as it was
On 3-Mar-06, at 4:57 PM, kirby urner wrote:
> I never ever said I "don't like" turtle.py nor did I suggest deleting
> it from the Standard Library. Not once.
My apologies, I certainly didn't intend to put words into either
Kirby or Arthur's mouths. I was only trying to address the "let's
mov
> Have said 4 times now that I have no problem with it in the standard
> distribution.
My apologies for misrespresenting you, but that is how you were
coming across. I was trying to address the perception more than what
you actually said, but I could have made that more clear. I'm sorry
ab
> I don't know. Has anyone ever seen Arthur and Kirby in the same room
> together?
>
I have. :-D
Kirby
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- Original Message -
From: Dethe Elza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Um, possibly because you come off pretty strongly, and seemed to be
> upset that it was even being discussed?
Yeah I guess I do and I was. OTOH, in reading back through the thread I see
that Vern was quite explicit, let'
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I can see that my focus on the 2nd stage disrupted the discussion of the
> first.
>
> I owe an apology and I offer it.
Completely accepted for my part. It actually clears up why we couldn't
understand each other - we were discussing different questions. As to
part 2,
On 3/6/06, Vern Ceder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree, actually. I would say it's just one of IDLE's shortcomings, but
> I've noticed it as well. This lack of ability to run a script with
> parameters makes IDLE much less useful for intermediate programmers as
> well. Add to that IDLE's genera
- Original Message -
From: Vern Ceder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > I owe an apology and I offer it.
>
> Completely accepted for my part.
Thank you.
For consummating a rare online transaction ;)
> Vern
>
> --
> This time for sure!
>-Bullwinkle J. Moose
Mr. Moose is an old hero of
> I am not yet a fan of easy install, and I know I am not alone in that.
I'm still getting used to it as well, and some parts are not finished
yet, but it is clearly the best way forward for installing and
maintaining python packages.
> And there is nothing at all easy about it at the monent, it
- Original Message -
From: Dethe Elza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> python -c "import urllib; urllib.main()" \
> http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/ez_setup.py \
> | python - -U setuptools
My point exactly - for the audience that I am focusing on and that with which
many
on edu-sig are con
On 3/6/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: Dethe Elza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >
> > python -c "import urllib; urllib.main()" \
> > http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/ez_setup.py \
> > | python - -U setuptools
>
> My point exactly - for the audienc
Andre.
I like Lightening a lot! This is almost exactly what I have been wanting
for beginners, and I may give it a try this spring.
If IDLE behaved this well and was this easy to use things would be much
better.
The reliance on an unincluded "battery" is a real drawback for many
environments,
On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:06 PM, Vern Ceder wrote:
> Andre.
>
> I like Lightening a lot! This is almost exactly what I have been
> wanting
> for beginners, and I may give it a try this spring.
>
> If IDLE behaved this well and was this easy to use things would be
> much
> better.
>
> The reliance
On 3/8/06, Brad Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:06 PM, Vern Ceder wrote:
>
> > Andre.
> >
> > I like Lightening a lot! This is almost exactly what I have been
> > wanting
> > for beginners, and I may give it a try this spring.
> >
> > If IDLE behaved this well and was thi
I also like the simplicity of lightning, but it would need some enhancements
before I could imagine using it in class. For example, it doesn't seem to
auto-indent and requires typing the filename on a save. I'm sure it would not
be hard to tidy up those things. I'd also like to handle multiple o
On 3/8/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I also like the simplicity of lightning, but it would need some enhancements
> before I could imagine using it in class. For example, it doesn't seem to
> auto-indent and requires typing the filename on a save. I'm sure it would not
> be hard to ti
On 3/8/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 14:54, Brad Miller wrote:> I just downloaded lightning and took it for a> spin. Its really very nice. The simplicity of IDLE is one of the> keys to the success of Python in our introductory CS courses. But
> students do
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