any problems or made any changes (even apparently
trivial ones).
> Another very useful tool for analyzing mail issues is swaks.
Now that's a tool I had not heard of before. I'm assuming you mean the tool at
<http://www.jetmore.org/john/code/swaks/>?
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erience, KISS+layering almost always beats solutions that are complex
from Day One.
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that your "real"
customers are also prevented from being able to post -- that would be throwing
the baby out with the bathwater.
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rt to dumb-down OS X so that it can be unified with iOS.
I do recall some slips at the WWDC Keynote address where it was referred to as
"iOS X" by a couple of people At least, it does make me wonder how
something like Mailman could be re-written to work effectively on something
e-box, although you can still download it from
an alternative site. Of course, you could claim that was a disk space issue,
but then they're no longer shipping the OS on physical media.
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LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
-
ing the Mailman fire, they cool off
>enough to realize there's nothing to benefit *anybody* in the
>Apple version, and it would be best if it just went away, so they
>don't bother asking for code. ;-)
That sequence of events doesn't serve
GPL?
In this respect, I believe that they are probably in violation of the spirit of
the GPL, but perhaps not in the letter of the law. Which is probably why they
are so very violently opposed to having any GPL-encumbered code anywhere in the
company.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profile: <ht
ir customers,
and they don't support their customers themselves. Regretfully, the Server
team at Apple is well known for ignoring feedback and input from anyone else,
especially anyone else in the company.
But as I said, this is an old bone of contention.
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Li
ly gets launched in the first place -- witness the various bug
tracking systems that we've tried to use over the years.
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hile, you could always try turning on personalization
for the list, and then add a footer with unique information per recipient.
That would cause the message-id to be unique as well as the message body, and
wouldn't require any new code to be developed.
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admins, but then you kind of defeat the
purpose of a lot of the Mailman self-provisioning functionality.
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http://mail.python.
finitely find more Barry-clones-in-progress on the developers list,
especially as it relates to mm3.
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hat someone else can get their entire list sent out in 120 seconds, even
if they're the same size and they're doing all the same crypto operations. You
need what is good enough for you, and you don't need to be comparing yourself
to someone else.
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Brad Knowles
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th that violation. If AOL
> were to ever call me on it, I'll worry about that then.
On that subject, I agree with you.
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such a feature, and I strongly suspect that someone else
has probably already done this. You just need to find it and install it.
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ome people who care and have a clue. I do feel that Google is the Next
Great Evil in this world, but that doesn't change the facts of the technical
implementation of their mail system relative to AOL. Of course, that's not
saying much….
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LinkedIn Profile: <
ferent department. Back
when David O'Donnell was running that shop, they did a really good job. But
things have gone way down hill ever since.
I have long since gone past the point where I consider them to be a complete
write-off, despite the fact that even my own wife still uses AOL.
ses and minuses of using a
> real mailing list (mailman) for this purpose.
There are people who are already doing this sort of thing with Mailman today,
but it requires a bit of hacking on the code to put all the pieces together.
We do not (yet) have an out-of-the-box solution in this space, at
w programs on the Internet
that has been fairly consistent in the way it has handled this header.
Of course, Mailman is only handling one end of the conversation, and it can't
control what people on the other end do with the header. If we change the way
Mailman works in this regard, we
t you against yourself, and there is a
limit to how much of that we can do. At least, there is a limit to how much we
can do if we want to keep the software usable for other people.
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---
fact that Yahoo! is hopelessly clueless does not absolve you of
the crime that you freely admit that you are guilty of.
If you wish to persist in your spammy ways, then we can make sure that your
address gets unsubscribed from this list, and that your domain gets banned from
sending e-mail to pyt
sensus has been that we won't kowtow to those brain-dead MUAs, and if the
users in question can't deal with these separate "attachments", then the list
admins are going to have to forgo putting footers on messages as they are being
passed through the system.
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Brad Knowles
that Mailman itself would be putting that header on -- I
suspect that Mailman would use a Python library to do that, as opposed to doing
it internally.
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run mailman 2.1.14 with Python 2.4.3 under Oracle Enterprise Linux 5
> (a clone of RHEL5)
Sometimes, problems like this are as simple as a program reading the timezone
definition on startup, and then never reading it again. Have you tried
stopping and restarting Mailman, i
On 08/15/2011 02:49 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:
You're talking about inbound, and how you have outsourced many of these
kinds of checks to other boxes. That's fine as far as it goes, but I was
talking about *outbound*, from Mailman to the world of recipients.
You are likely to have
ialist in designing and building large-scale
mail systems (such as AOL), a long-term member of the Mailman project,
and a member of the postmaster team for python.org where all the
official Mailman mailing lists are hosted -- using Mailman.
--
Brad Kno
mail being handled. This way you can set up "local"
queues in your MTA that may have different resource handling rules or
different retry algorithms, as compared to queues to external sites that
might be known for being troublesome.
We were doing this kind of thing at AOL back in the mid
27;d have to ask them where their
tools are and how those tools change from one version of RHEL to another.
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http://m
appens, then I could
potentially be available to do remote consulting for this kind of stuff through
my employer.
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Sent from my iPad
On Apr 3, 2011, at 1:42 AM, JRC Groups wrote:
> Thanks Brad and Mark for your helpful and detailed replies.
>
> I have reached a point
OS X have been transitioned over to the
mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of products and
services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses exclusively on the
retail/home user market.
But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look
towa
should work in those
kinds of situations, but that's about the best we can do.
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http://mail.python.org/mailman
ection
of the more recent releases of Mailman. Mark Sapiro has taken over maintenance
of that script, so please feel free to feed any changes back to him and he can
get them into the next release.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
(maybe your mailing list management software
removed them), then that would be likely to cause problems.
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ates to the Mailman installation, etc
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki
tickling in the back of my brain regarding this, and I
can't figure out what it is
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d that have been said so far,
I would like to point out that I have not made any irrevocable decisions on the
matter, and I have yet to take any actual action. I've spoken about what my
tendencies and inclinations would be, nothing more.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedI
uent that was
delivered.
In those cases, the collateral damage to the community is a very real cost that
we all have to bear our part of, just so that the company can make good on
their get-rich-quick scheme, which they perpetrate at the expense of everyone
else.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn
and then we
can get back to that win-win-win scenario mentioned above. If there's more to
it than that, then I would definitely be inclined to be much tougher in my
response.
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LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
--
all they've got. It's not executable code until Python gets its hands on it
and turns it into bytecode, and then keeps a cached copy of that bytecode
around so that it doesn't need to go through this process again, unless the
s
python.org.
Thanks for the heads-up!
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Mailman FAQ: http://wik
can, or should, go after
Apple. Both companies are shipping our code with extensive modifications, and
so far as I know neither of them has released their changes, as required by the
GNU license.
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LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
--
ade right then
and there, and make sure that we eat our own dogfood. However, I really should
coordinate this with the guys who've been doing the day-to-day administration
of mail.python.org for the past several months. Let me see how quickly we can
get that upgrade done.
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the Mailman Cabal, I will make sure to carry through on
that, if necessary.
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thing
by doing powers-of-2 splits. Regretfully, this is not well documented, but I
think there is one or two FAQ Wiki questions that discuss it.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
--
Mailman-Users ma
ou could try that too and see what it does with your list.
> I'll make a little Python script for that.
Much simpler solution here is to use the "smtpsink" program that Wietse
supplies as part of the test harness for postfix.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyu
as spam and this hurts
the reputation of the site running Mailman, then the site running Mailman
should ban the downstream site that inappropriately blamed it for sending the
content that their recipient(s) asked to receive.
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LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
I can to encode as much of my knowledge as possible into the
FAQs. Pretty much everything is there, or I point to references where the rest
of the information can be found. The key is knowing what you're looking for
and when you've found it.
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services. Please email me
> off the forum. derrickwooden AT gmail
Unfortunately, I am not in a position to do this kind of consulting anymore.
I'll give advice for free, but that's the best I can do at the moment.
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Brad Knowles
article
that talks about Joomla. That's the best integration I know of, although I'm
sure there are others.
> I believe that something like this could work with phpbb2 but not the
> current release. Can anyone help please ?
I'm not personally aware of anything, but that doesn
db tables would also
> increase the speed. I will also utilize this option.
I don't know of any way that MySQL would factor into this discussion. Can you
provide a reference?
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.
> Anyway, you're entirely missing the point. I don't expect anybody to
> read FAQ 1.22 in advance of comitting a faux pas; this particular FAQ
> is mostly for pointing to *afterward*.
Indeed. That is precisely the point.
--
Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profi
On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gadi Evron wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually
>> give you the support you require.
>
> Brad, crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature?
I can s
, there would be many, many fewer crappy providers in this
world.
At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually
give you the support you require.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
-
maximum performance on a mailing list -- I can run rings around it with
postfix.
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on. You should have
similar tools for whatever MTA you're using, so that you get a better idea of
what's going on across the whole system.
I have not touched any such scripts in many, many years, but I'm sure there are
plenty of such tools available for various popular MTAs out ther
multiple outbound mail relay servers would start to
make a big difference.
Most of these topics are at least touched on in the FAQ Wiki and the fact that
the OP hasn't mentioned them tells me that they either didn't do their
homework, or they don't understand the concepts wel
this process, please send an e-mail
message to mailman-ca...@python.org.
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Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
lman,
and discuss this subject with them. Hopefully, they would know enough about
both sides of the problem to be able to recommend a solution or patch for you.
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--
Mailman-Us
oc.coker.com.au/projects/postal/>).
If you're going to be doing any benchmarking or load-testing, make sure
you read, understand, and follow all the various relevant FAQs in the
Mailman FAQ Wiki, especially in section 6.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpx
arge of a
security hole?
That's not a question I can answer.
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slows down all your delivery to that site, for as
long as you have mail for that site.
But I would expect Ralf to know the answer to this question better than
I do -- after all, it has been a number of years since I wrote that, and
at my age, the memory starts to go.
--
Brad Knowles
Lin
header exists is for those cases where someone
running a list *does* want to force everyone to always reply to the
whole list and not privately reply back to someone. If you don't try to
force that behaviour, then you can mostly just not worry about this header.
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Brad Knowles
o to the FAQ Wiki at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions> and search
for "rate limit".
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Mailman-Users
g to be a more optimistic and positive person now (after my
surgery for thyroid cancer), so I guess I need to change that. Maybe
once they finally start me on the synthetic thyroid replacement drugs,
and I feel like I've got some energy back.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn Profi
rom the content scanning system is also a good idea,
including lots of other reasons.
Good luck, and I hope that this works out for you.
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Mailman-
hen
obviously you're not going to squeeze any more blood out of that turnip.
But I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with these sections
to make sure that you're actually doing as much as you can.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn
miliar with the more basic stuff discussed in the first
section of the FAQ, starting with FAQ 1.22 at <http://wiki.list.org/x/PIA9>.
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Mailman-U
n happy to speak up here or to contact you
directly.
If you want any more specific advice, please let me know.
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http:/
an OpenID Relyer.
Looking at the code might give me an idea about how to start implementing
openID support fr the mailman setup I am running,
I really don't think so. They and you seem to have very different ideas
as to where the OpenID provider code should go.
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Brad Knowles
LinkedIn
Jones, Scott (GE Money, consultant) wrote:
Whence cometh the sudden flood of posts?
I have been remiss in my duties as moderator for this list, and today I
finally got the chance to try to catch up.
I'll try to stay more current in the future.
--
Brad Knowles
Member of the Pytho
messages that are held for moderation, but there's no "approve all messages"
option.
You could always hack the source code yourself to add such a feature, if you
were so inclined.
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same time.
IMO, this may be a better question to ask on their mailing lists, or to
ask the people who maintain their mailing lists.
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Mailman-Users
ht be
necessary to make that happen.
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list
to put
that into mm_cfg.py instead.
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<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>http://preview.tinyurl.com/bi
to update that data, and you still
need some way to provide e-mail input and output to that system.
There are a few ways to solve these issues, but each has a different set
of trade-offs, etc....
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hich is the original source code that we provide. We can't control
what anyone else does with whatever they provide, nor can we write their
documentation for them.
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understood and usable by Mailman if there is a bounce,
and how many unique messages will be delivered, as opposed to how many
connections will be created to deliver the messages.
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If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile: my friend big
ing to keep your delivery rates to
remote sites at a lower level -- if anything, it's going to increase it.
This is a postfix problem. Find the sites that cause the problems, and set
up separate queues for them, with different parallelism and
re-queueing/re-try schedules.
--
Brad Know
this file, but perhaps your MTA does. I am glad
to hear that they were able to fix your problem for you.
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Brad Knowles
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<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>http://prev
ibutions, especially
when you go for just the "base" install, as opposed to the full
"everything-including-the-kitchen-sink" install.
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<
to upload
patches first to the tracker.
However, we do greatly appreciate your effort in producing these
patches, and this is a discussion that I think the developers would love
to continue to have with you. Thanks!
--
Brad Knowles
If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
Link
4E9>?
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<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
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you generate your content in HTML, and
you do not have Mailman configured to strip or convert HTML, then that
will be passed through to the recipients.
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&
other pages.
I'm not aware of any other page that tries to gather together any of the
early history of Mailman.
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<http://tinyurl.
service provider.
There are some service providers that are active on this mailing list,
and I'm sure one or more of them would be more than happy to talk to you
about your requirements and whether or not they could help you move your
services to a different system where you can ac
quot;nosuid" by the fileserver, and you'll
have to talk to the administrator of the fileserver to see if they will
change that for you.
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<http
and how they could potentially be used
in conjunction with the mailing list system.
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<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
have been on the postfix-users mailing list.
I have a great deal of respect for what Victor Duchovni has to say about
postfix, but so far as I know he is not a subscriber to this list, and I
don't recall seeing any such discussion recently on this list.
--
Brad Knowles
If you like
you're going to need to
have full privileged access to the server and the MTA, as well as full
site admin access.
Either that, or a service provider who is willing and able to do all
these things for you -- and anyone running cPanel is highly unlikely to
fit into that picture.
--
Brad K
's certainly do-able, but you probably want to spend some time to
think everything all the way through before you go down this route.
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<ht
ensure that they perform the
appropriate functions relative to those standards.
I can tell you right now that not all of those recipient servers will
act appropriately. You're going to have to decide how you're going to
handle that.
--
Brad Knowles
If you like Jazz/R&B
tions might be available to you.
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<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
---
ld have a lot more examples that might be more useful to you.
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<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
-
ebsite.org.
Unfortunately, no. The best you could do would be to have the senders
configure their mail programs so that when they send official messages,
they can choose to send them from their official account.
--
Brad Knowles
If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
Li
this problem, but I won't clog up the list with it.
Feel free to send me a copy and I'll see if I can figure out what went
wrong. If I can't help you, then maybe Mark Sapiro can (since he's the
lead developer of the 2.1 and 2.2 branches of Mailman).
--
Brad Knowles
a case where this kind of thing
isn't an issue, I'll be glad to point you to the documentation that
discusses this subject.
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nt address when
transmitting to anywhere else.
Likewise, if you want to identify different classes of mail and have
them sent through different IP addresses, that should also be possible
-- so long as you can identify what is meant by "different classes" of mail.
--
Brad Knowles
ly mail to yahoo.com, you can have
different queue retry rules. For example, you could retry them less
frequently, and hold them for shorter periods of time, or whatever it is
that the guys at yahoo want you to do.
There's lots of reasons to set up separate queues for large partner do
firewall involved?
Maybe the ISP is blocking inbound port 25 and/or 80/443?
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a wiki and presumably I could jump in and rearrange stuff. I'd
do that, if there's a sense that it's appropriate and no one with real
expertise on Mailman wants to take it on.
I'd say that you have the power to make whatever changes you think
should be made, and if we don'
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