Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[David A. Powers]

Slavery in all its forms should be ended, that's why I brought it up!
We need to develop sustainable technology that doesn't rely on rare
minerals because of the human and environmental cost.

Have we really reached the point that if I don't explicitly reject slavery
in a public discussion, the assumption is that I'm pro-slavery?

~David

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 3:06 PM  wrote:

> It’s weird to me that you’re justifying slavery because it occurs.
>
> This conversation is taking a fascinating turn.
>
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 14:27, David A. Powers  wrote:
>
> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
> beat. I'm just saying...
>
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
> based on someone's accent.
>
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
> the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
> work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
> the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
> efficient way to exploit human labor.
>
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
> society run by machines.
>
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
> experience.
>
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
> into words.
> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
> If you want ideas, read a book.
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than
> talking about it.
> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential
> wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>
> ~David
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>>
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international
>> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most
>> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity.
>> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the
>> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from
>> London.
>>
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator,
>> I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit
>> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African
>> accent could be perfect.
>>
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>>
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
>> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>>
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[denisedalphond]

It’s weird to me that you’re justifying slavery because it occurs. 

This conversation is taking a fascinating turn. 

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 14:27, David A. Powers  wrote:
> 
> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black 
> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of 
> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped 
> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this current 
> example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do believe 
> musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever steps they can 
> to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if someone steals from 
> you there, they better be prepared to get their ass beat. I'm just saying...
> 
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background based 
> on someone's accent. 
> 
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In the 
> global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still work in 
> mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as 
> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the 
> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in the 
> economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the 
> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more 
> efficient way to exploit human labor. 
> 
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a 
> society run by machines. 
> 
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of 
> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to 
> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
> 
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it, including 
> being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and racism, 
> etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which is explored 
> from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural experience.
> 
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put 
> into words. 
> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
> If you want ideas, read a book. 
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than 
> talking about it.
> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential 
> wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda... 
> 
> ~David
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of 
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>> 
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international 
>> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most 
>> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity. 
>> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the 
>> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from 
>> London.
>> 
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator, I 
>> don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit 
>> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African 
>> accent could be perfect.
>> 
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is 
>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to 
>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't 
>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native 
>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that 
>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no 
>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>> 
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely seen 
>> any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could 
>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this, 
>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards 
>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism 
>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in 
>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>> 
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism. I 
>> don't think that's a fair representation.
>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit 
>>> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music 
>>> is only for people of color. White people 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Steven Robertson]

Nice. Must say I'm intrigued. Guess there's no way to attend remotely or
transcripts, though if that's possible would like to see more. Seems
very interesting.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 8:09 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
> https://fhi.duke.edu/events/drexicya-mars-interplanetary-water-mission> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 3:49 PM Alana Blue,
>  wrote:>> Not to add more fire to this discussion but 
> what RA credits isn't
>> even correct. The image is not from RBMA.>> Secondly, I don't consider RA 
>> real journalism. It's a blog for all
>> intents and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite,
>> credit, their sources properly.>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty
>>  wrote:>>> It was DJ Moxie who provided the 
>> narration. White and English. 
>>> 
>>> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote: 
>>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya
 later when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply
 about the context of the music. 
 Cheers,
 Shaun (England)
 

Truncated. Initial reply bounced back due to being too long.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Steven Robertson]

Correction: RA started in Sydney, Australia. I had no idea. More info on the 
link Andrew Duke posted on Facebook a couple of hours ago. Interesting read... 
https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11?fbclid=IwAR1wnHPp9LeevgALatCV4HFankUuF90XVEtSuUNYsrWZ794F-KlkKw5703U

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 7:49 PM, Alana Blue wrote:
> Not to add more fire to this discussion but what RA credits isn't even
> correct. The image is not from RBMA.> Secondly, I don't consider RA real 
> journalism. It's a blog for all
> intents and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite, credit,
> their sources properly.> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty
>  wrote:>> It was DJ Moxie who provided the 
> narration. White and English. 
>> 
>> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:
>>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya
>>> later when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply
>>> about the context of the music.>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Shaun (England)
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers 
>>> wrote: 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact 
>>> of
black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more
common story of exploitation in the music industry: musicians
and creators who get ripped off, whether it's theft by a
manager, record labels stealing, or this current example. This
kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do believe
musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in
the D, if someone steals from you there, they better be prepared
to get their ass beat. I'm just saying... 
 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural
background based on someone's accent. 
 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some
forms. In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the
margins: slaves still work in mines to get stuff that goes into
our high tech gadgets. As long as civilization uses slaves,
there are going to be ideologies that justify the exploitation.
US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in the
economic competition between north and south, and the fact that
the industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had
found a more efficient way to exploit human labor. 
 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to
change in a society run by machines. 
 And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a
 society of machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very
 machines we use to communicate with each other and to create techno
 music. 
 Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
 including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US
 slavery and racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a
 human issue, which is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted
 in a particular cultural experience. 
 Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot
 be put into words. If it could be put into words, then the music would 
 actually be
 redundant! If you want ideas, read a book. 
 The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally
 different than talking about it. Nothing you could say about a 
 Drexciya record, would exhaust the
 potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record
 contains. Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not 
 propaganda... 
 
 ~David
 
 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson >>> os.net> wrote:> __
> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense
> of equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.> 
> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
> international city whose residents are less racist than average.
> It seems that the most racist parts of the world are the parts
> with the least amount of diversity. This obviously because when
> you live and work with people from all over the world you see them
> as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from London.> 
> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear
> more talk of Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya
> specifically, well - an African accent could be perfect.> 
> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that
> it is really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often
> used to manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to
> sow division. Isn't race more a colonial idea, to justify the
> theft of land from 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Andrew Duke]

https://fhi.duke.edu/events/drexicya-mars-interplanetary-water-mission


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 3:49 PM Alana Blue,  wrote:

> Not to add more fire to this discussion but what RA credits isn't even
> correct. The image is not from RBMA.
> Secondly, I don't consider RA real journalism. It's a blog for all intents
> and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite, credit, their
> sources properly.
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty <
> aidan.b.odohe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was DJ Moxie who provided the narration. White and English.
>>
>> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:
>>
>>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later
>>> when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the
>>> context of the music.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Shaun (England)
>>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:
>>>
 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of
 black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
 exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
 off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
 current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
 believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
 steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
 someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
 beat. I'm just saying...

 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
 based on someone's accent.

 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms.
 In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves
 still work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As
 long as civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that
 justify the exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery,
 but also in the economic competition between north and south, and the fact
 that the industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found
 a more efficient way to exploit human labor.

 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in
 a society run by machines.

 And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
 machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
 communicate with each other and to create techno music.

 Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
 including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
 racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
 is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
 experience.

 Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be
 put into words.
 If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be
 redundant!
 If you want ideas, read a book.
 The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
 than talking about it.
 Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the
 potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
 Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...


 ~David

 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
 wrote:

> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>
> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
> international city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems
> that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the least 
> amount
> of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work with people
> from all over the world you see them as human beings. The narrator could 
> be
> black, but from London.
>
> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk 
> of
> Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an
> African accent could be perfect.
>
> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. 
> Isn't
> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>
> I'm lucky 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Alana Blue]

Not to add more fire to this discussion but what RA credits isn't even
correct. The image is not from RBMA.
Secondly, I don't consider RA real journalism. It's a blog for all intents
and purposes...this does not mean they shouldn't cite, credit, their
sources properly.

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:44 AM Aidan O'Doherty 
wrote:

> It was DJ Moxie who provided the narration. White and English.
>
> On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:
>
>> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later
>> when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the
>> context of the music.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Shaun (England)
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of
>>> black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
>>> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
>>> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
>>> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
>>> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
>>> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
>>> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
>>> beat. I'm just saying...
>>>
>>> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
>>> based on someone's accent.
>>>
>>> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms.
>>> In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves
>>> still work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As
>>> long as civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that
>>> justify the exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery,
>>> but also in the economic competition between north and south, and the fact
>>> that the industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found
>>> a more efficient way to exploit human labor.
>>>
>>> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in
>>> a society run by machines.
>>>
>>> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
>>> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
>>> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>>>
>>> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
>>> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
>>> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
>>> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be
>>> put into words.
>>> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be
>>> redundant!
>>> If you want ideas, read a book.
>>> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
>>> than talking about it.
>>> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the
>>> potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
>>> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
 equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.

 RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
 international city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems
 that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount
 of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work with people
 from all over the world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be
 black, but from London.

 Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
 narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of
 Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an
 African accent could be perfect.

 I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
 really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
 manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
 race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
 people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
 there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
 black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.

 I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
 seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
 change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
 with respect to people from many places. Things have been 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Aidan O'Doherty]

It was DJ Moxie who provided the narration. White and English.

On Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:37 Shaun Fogarty,  wrote:

> What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later
> when I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the
> context of the music.
>
> Cheers,
> Shaun (England)
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:
>
>> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
>> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
>> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
>> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
>> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
>> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
>> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
>> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
>> beat. I'm just saying...
>>
>> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
>> based on someone's accent.
>>
>> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
>> the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
>> work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
>> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
>> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
>> the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
>> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
>> efficient way to exploit human labor.
>>
>> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
>> society run by machines.
>>
>> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
>> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
>> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>>
>> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
>> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
>> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
>> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
>> experience.
>>
>> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
>> into words.
>> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
>> If you want ideas, read a book.
>> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
>> than talking about it.
>> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the
>> potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
>> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>>
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>>>
>>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
>>> international city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems
>>> that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount
>>> of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work with people
>>> from all over the world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be
>>> black, but from London.
>>>
>>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
>>> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of
>>> Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an
>>> African accent could be perfect.
>>>
>>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
>>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
>>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
>>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
>>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
>>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
>>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>>>
>>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
>>> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
>>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
>>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
>>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
>>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
>>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>>>
>>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.
>>> I don't think that's a fair representation.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Shaun Fogarty]

What a fantastic discussion. I am inspired to spin some Drexciya later when
I get to sit down.  Maybe I’ll try to think more deeply about the context
of the music.

Cheers,
Shaun (England)

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 19:28, David A. Powers  wrote:

> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
> innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
> exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
> off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
> current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
> believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
> steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
> someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
> beat. I'm just saying...
>
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
> based on someone's accent.
>
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
> the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
> work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
> civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
> exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
> the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
> industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
> efficient way to exploit human labor.
>
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
> society run by machines.
>
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
> machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
> communicate with each other and to create techno music.
>
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
> racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
> is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
> experience.
>
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
> into words.
> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
> If you want ideas, read a book.
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than
> talking about it.
> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential
> wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
> Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...
>
>
> ~David
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>>
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international
>> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most
>> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity.
>> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the
>> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from
>> London.
>>
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator,
>> I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit
>> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African
>> accent could be perfect.
>>
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
>> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
>> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
>> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
>> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
>> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
>> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>>
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
>> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
>> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
>> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
>> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
>> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
>> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>>
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.
>> I don't think that's a fair representation.
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
>> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music
>> is only for people of color. White 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Steven Robertson]

The exploitation thing is certainly something, and that's probably the
reason for the animosity. It's not this isolated thing, but stealing
from the cultural heritage - I think I can appreciate that.
100% agree on the slavery thing. Very well put. Also, with respect to
art. Top marks. No further comment.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 7:27 PM, David A. Powers wrote:
> 1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of
>black innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common
>story of exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators
>who get ripped off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels
>stealing, or this current example. This kind of exploitation goes
>on all the time, and I do believe musicians, writers, and artists,
>need to work to take whatever steps they can to stop such theft.
>Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if someone steals from you
>there, they better be prepared to get their ass beat. I'm just
>saying...> 
> 2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background
>based on someone's accent.> 
> 3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms.
>In the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins:
>slaves still work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high
>tech gadgets. As long as civilization uses slaves, there are going
>to be ideologies that justify the exploitation. US racism is rooted
>in the history of slavery, but also in the economic competition
>between north and south, and the fact that the industrialized north
>didn't need slave labor because it had found a more efficient way
>to exploit human labor.> 
> 4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change
>in a society run by machines.> 
> And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society
> of machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use
> to communicate with each other and to create techno music.> 
> Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
> including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US
> slavery and racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a
> human issue, which is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a
> particular cultural experience.> 
> Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be
> put into words.> If it could be put into words, then the music would actually 
> be
> redundant!> If you want ideas, read a book. 
> The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different
> than talking about it.> Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would 
> exhaust the
> potential wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.> Art is 
> open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda... 
> 
> ~David
> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson  os.net> wrote:>> __
>> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
>> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.>> 
>> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
>> international city whose residents are less racist than average. It
>> seems that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the
>> least amount of diversity. This obviously because when you live and
>> work with people from all over the world you see them as human
>> beings. The narrator could be black, but from London.>> 
>> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
>> narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more
>> talk of Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically,
>> well - an African accent could be perfect.>> 
>> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it
>> is really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used
>> to manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow
>> division. Isn't race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of
>> land from its native people? These days we should know that we're all
>> the same race, and that there are so many colours. Nobody is simply
>> white or black. There is no black or white. Except, where positive
>> discrimination is due.>> 
>> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've
>> rarely seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However,
>> things could change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very
>> little of this, with respect to people from many places. Things have
>> been sliding backwards though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans
>> are not responsible for racism in the US. There are people that are
>> responsible, and you'll find them in positions of power, using it as
>> a tool, a method of control. IMHO.>> 
>> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and
>> racism. I don't think that's a fair representation.>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[David A. Powers]

1. Stealing by RA is terrible. Remember that along with the fact of black
innovators not getting credit, there is an even more common story of
exploitation in the music industry: musicians and creators who get ripped
off, whether it's theft by a manager, record labels stealing, or this
current example. This kind of exploitation goes on all the time, and I do
believe musicians, writers, and artists, need to work to take whatever
steps they can to stop such theft. Let me tell you, I lived in the D, if
someone steals from you there, they better be prepared to get their ass
beat. I'm just saying...

2. It's racist to make assumptions about race and cultural background based
on someone's accent.

3. All civilized societies to this day, use slave labor in some forms. In
the global economy, slavery is simply pushed to the margins: slaves still
work in mines to get stuff that goes into our high tech gadgets. As long as
civilization uses slaves, there are going to be ideologies that justify the
exploitation. US racism is rooted in the history of slavery, but also in
the economic competition between north and south, and the fact that the
industrialized north didn't need slave labor because it had found a more
efficient way to exploit human labor.

4. The meaning of work, slavery, and exploitation is going to change in a
society run by machines.

And #4 is why Drexciya and techno are relevant--we live in a society of
machines, and slave labor is embedded in the very machines we use to
communicate with each other and to create techno music.

Drexciya's music reflects the experience of the people who made it,
including being black, growing up in Detroit, the history of US slavery and
racism, etc. But SLAVERY is not a "black issue" it's a human issue, which
is explored from a particular viewpoint rooted in a particular cultural
experience.

Music is not ABOUT ideas. Music is a living experience that cannot be put
into words.
If it could be put into words, then the music would actually be redundant!
If you want ideas, read a book.
The experience of listening to a Drexciya record is totally different than
talking about it.
Nothing you could say about a Drexciya record, would exhaust the potential
wealth of meanings and experience that the record contains.
Art is open ended, that's what makes it art and not propaganda...

~David

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM Steven Robertson  wrote:

> I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
> equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
>
> RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an international
> city whose residents are less racist than average. It seems that the most
> racist parts of the world are the parts with the least amount of diversity.
> This obviously because when you live and work with people from all over the
> world you see them as human beings. The narrator could be black, but from
> London.
>
> Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the narrator,
> I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk of Detroit
> music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well - an African
> accent could be perfect.
>
> I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it is
> really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used to
> manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow division. Isn't
> race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of land from its native
> people? These days we should know that we're all the same race, and that
> there are so many colours. Nobody is simply white or black. There is no
> black or white. Except, where positive discrimination is due.
>
> I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
> seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things could
> change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of this,
> with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding backwards
> though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not responsible for racism
> in the US. There are people that are responsible, and you'll find them in
> positions of power, using it as a tool, a method of control. IMHO.
>
> I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism. I
> don't think that's a fair representation.
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music
> is only for people of color. White people are never excluded from anything.
> And in 2018, unintentional? Please.
>
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club
> culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old
> grampas about it.
>
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Steven Robertson]

I'm all for positive discrimination. In order to achieve any sense of
equality, it has to be done. It's the way to correct things.
RA is a London-based website so far as I know. London is an
international city whose residents are less racist than average. It
seems that the most racist parts of the world are the parts with the
least amount of diversity. This obviously because when you live and work
with people from all over the world you see them as human beings. The
narrator could be black, but from London.
Not giving credit, clearly is unprofessional. The accent of the
narrator, I don't think is a problem. I'd love to see and hear more talk
of Detroit music from Detroiters, and for Drexciya specifically, well -
an African accent could be perfect.
I do wonder if race and racism entirely an artificial idea, that it
is really down to a tribalism. It's something I think is often used
to manipulate people in times of war (or conquest), and to sow
division. Isn't race more a colonial idea, to justify the theft of
land from its native people? These days we should know that we're all
the same race, and that there are so many colours. Nobody is simply
white or black. There is no black or white. Except, where positive
discrimination is due.
I'm lucky never to have experienced racial discrimination. I've rarely
seen any racism, and certainly less as time goes by. However, things
could change, but I'm thankful to live somewhere there is very little of
this, with respect to people from many places. Things have been sliding
backwards though, throughout Europe. Still, Europeans are not
responsible for racism in the US. There are people that are responsible,
and you'll find them in positions of power, using it as a tool, a method
of control. IMHO.
I'd be really disappointed if the music was _all_ about race and racism.
I don't think that's a fair representation.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 5:25 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the
> music is only for people of color. White people are never excluded
> from anything. And in 2018, unintentional? Please.> 
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in
> club culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing
> to be old grampas about it.> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:>> As a 
> white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy,
>> and Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly
>> feel comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a
>> lack of sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the
>> case of the unattributed source, they have at least corrected this
>> soon after the issue was raised publicly in the past few days.>> 
>> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya
>> story and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is
>> _all_ about race and racism, should be challenged. There is a
>> cultural context which is certainly important to remember. It's worth
>> remembering too those that were lost in such terrible conditions on
>> their way to America. I would argue that the music is not all about
>> race and racism. The music has a soul and that soul is humanist, not
>> racist. It's not racist towards white people from Europe. Drexciya
>> stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We are each
>> responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The music
>> transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers
>> wherever they may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you
>> don't belong here is not quite what I think is intended by the music
>> either. We are all belong to the sea in some way. It's the strongest
>> idea about it I feel.>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>>> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of
>>> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's
>>> interview with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and
>>> thus this post ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link
>>> (below) re RA that was published Oct 11, just a few days before the
>>> original--uncredited--Drexciya feature. The linked feature on RA is
>>> especially relevant re the mess they made this week and how the
>>> concerns of Denise and others were ignored and 313-moderator Kent's
>>> concerns "downvoted":>>> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond,
>>>  wrote: I told RA what I thought. They 
>>> ignored me. That's what usually
 happens. 
 
 *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
 *ethnomusicologist*
 *schoolcraftwax.work*
 
 
 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor
  wrote:> What about redubbing the audio 
 with you narrating? Make a
> corrected 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Andrew Duke]

Ronnie: Tuesday afternoon FB feeds showed me RA had published a YouTube
video titled same as this thread topic. As a HUGE Drexciya fan, I saved the
link to check when I got home from work. Didn't check the torrent of emails
and messages and notifications that turned out to be related. Tuesday night
I finally had a chance to check it. Tired from OT at work, my ears still
pricked up when I heard my own voice. In a Drexciya feature in 2018. HUH? I
listened again and clued in that my 2001 interview formed the majority of
the James Stinson spoken word heard. Liz Copeland's 2002 interview also
used. I was in shock as no credits. None. And I was already no fan of RA
and other sites like that. I conferred with friends involved in journalism
such as Kent (and Terry at 5 Mag in Chicago) to make sure I wasn't being a
jack-arse being upset about this. Cut to 48 hours later and I am so darn
exhausted. I don't think Liz Copeland aware, so envy the sleep she didn't
miss out on. RA has continued to be an arse. Like Fact a year ago, they
have not gotten back to me. I know they never will. And if there hadn't
been an uproar, certain the credits would never have been added. The Oct 11
feature about Resident Advisor and the site history itself rings so much
clearer in light of all this Oct 16 Drexciya "collage" nonsense posted on
RA. 313 is about Detroit. RA will talk about Detroit if that helps re
advertising $, of course. At least all this has caused more to hear the
voice of James Stinson. That and Drexciya music are what matter most in all
this debacle. Back to work for me. Andrew

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 1:56 PM Ronny Pries (rktic), 
wrote:

> Do I understand correctly that RA used your interview without clearance,
> Andrew?
>
> Am 18.10.2018 um 18:25 schrieb denisedalph...@gmail.com:
>
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit
> music. How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music
> is only for people of color. White people are never excluded from anything.
> And in 2018, unintentional? Please.
>
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club
> culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old
> grampas about it.
>
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy, and
> Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly feel
> comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a lack of
> sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the case of the
> unattributed source, they have at least corrected this soon after the issue
> was raised publicly in the past few days.
>
> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya story
> and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is _all_ about
> race and racism, should be challenged. There is a cultural context which is
> certainly important to remember. It's worth remembering too those that were
> lost in such terrible conditions on their way to America. I would argue
> that the music is not all about race and racism. The music has a soul and
> that soul is humanist, not racist. It's not racist towards white people
> from Europe. Drexciya stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We
> are each responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The
> music transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers
> wherever they may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you don't
> belong here is not quite what I think is intended by the music either. We
> are all belong to the sea in some way. It's the strongest idea about it I
> feel.
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>
> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of
> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's interview
> with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and thus this post
> ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below) re RA that was
> published Oct 11, just a few days before the original--uncredited--Drexciya
> feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re the mess they
> made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others were ignored and
> 313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":
> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond, 
> wrote:
>
> I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor <
> callum.macgre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected
> version
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond, 
> wrote:
>
> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty 

Live Techno Sets

[Matt Deegan]

For any of you interested, here's my latest live, improvised techno:
https://soundcloud.com/epistrophesmith/sets/live-sets

Best wishes,
Matt (aka EP Smith)

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Ronny Pries (rktic)]

Do I understand correctly that RA used your interview without clearance, Andrew?

> Am 18.10.2018 um 18:25 schrieb denisedalph...@gmail.com:
> 
> We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit music. 
> How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music is only 
> for people of color. White people are never excluded from anything. And in 
> 2018, unintentional? Please.
> 
> Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club 
> culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old 
> grampas about it. 
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  > wrote:
> 
>> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy, and 
>> Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly feel 
>> comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a lack of 
>> sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the case of the 
>> unattributed source, they have at least corrected this soon after the issue 
>> was raised publicly in the past few days.
>> 
>> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya story 
>> and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is _all_ about 
>> race and racism, should be challenged. There is a cultural context which is 
>> certainly important to remember. It's worth remembering too those that were 
>> lost in such terrible conditions on their way to America. I would argue that 
>> the music is not all about race and racism. The music has a soul and that 
>> soul is humanist, not racist. It's not racist towards white people from 
>> Europe. Drexciya stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We are 
>> each responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The music 
>> transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers wherever 
>> they may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you don't belong 
>> here is not quite what I think is intended by the music either. We are all 
>> belong to the sea in some way. It's the strongest idea about it I feel.
>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>>> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of 
>>> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's interview 
>>> with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and thus this post 
>>> ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below) re RA that was 
>>> published Oct 11, just a few days before the original--uncredited--Drexciya 
>>> feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re the mess they 
>>> made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others were ignored and 
>>> 313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":
>>> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond, >> > wrote:
>>> I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>> ethnomusicologist
>>> schoolcraftwax.work 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor 
>>> mailto:callum.macgre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected 
>>> version 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond, >> > wrote:
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James Stinson 
>>> still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that Andrew 
>>> Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>> 
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the 
>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off 
>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of 
>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from 
>>> the colonizer. 
>>> 
>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all 
>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism. 
>>> 
>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
>>> 
>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
>>> 
>>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
>>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>> ethnomusicologist
>>> schoolcraftwax.work 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis >> > wrote:
>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>> 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[denisedalphond]

We should hear the voice of a Black Detroiter narrating about Detroit music. 
How often does that happen. That doesn’t communicate that the music is only for 
people of color. White people are never excluded from anything. And in 2018, 
unintentional? Please.

Luis Manuel Garcia writes amazing pieces about intersectionality in club 
culture for RA. They have the information, they’re just choosing to be old 
grampas about it. 

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 11:56, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy, and 
> Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly feel 
> comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a lack of 
> sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the case of the 
> unattributed source, they have at least corrected this soon after the issue 
> was raised publicly in the past few days.
> 
> I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya story 
> and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is _all_ about 
> race and racism, should be challenged. There is a cultural context which is 
> certainly important to remember. It's worth remembering too those that were 
> lost in such terrible conditions on their way to America. I would argue that 
> the music is not all about race and racism. The music has a soul and that 
> soul is humanist, not racist. It's not racist towards white people from 
> Europe. Drexciya stands against slavery. We are all human beings. We are each 
> responsible to our own behaviour, and our shared futures. The music 
> transcends race and racism. We fight the power, and the slavers wherever they 
> may be. Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you don't belong here is 
> not quite what I think is intended by the music either. We are all belong to 
> the sea in some way. It's the strongest idea about it I feel.
> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
>> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of 
>> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's interview 
>> with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and thus this post 
>> ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below) re RA that was 
>> published Oct 11, just a few days before the original--uncredited--Drexciya 
>> feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re the mess they 
>> made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others were ignored and 
>> 313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":
>> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond,  
>> wrote:
>> I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor 
>>  wrote:
>> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected 
>> version 
>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond,  wrote:
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James Stinson 
>> still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that Andrew 
>> Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>> 
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the video, 
>> and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off putting. 
>> They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of brilliant, 
>> musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from the colonizer. 
>> 
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all the 
>> way super duper is all about race and racism. 
>> 
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
>> 
>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
>> 
>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>> behind Drexciya.
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>> 
>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>> 
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> Jeffrey J Davis
>> 
>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>> 
>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>> 
>> 218.833.2847
> 

Newish Sean Deason: Life EP

[kent williams]

This is a great release, that I did the mastering for.  Given the year I've
had I actually forgot that I did the digital mastering for it. Jwan Allen
posted about it on Facebook and reminded me of it.

"Life" is based around a Strings of Life sample/recreation which is pretty
cheeky, but it's a good track.
https://settheoryrecords1.bandcamp.com/album/sean-deason-life-ep

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Steven Robertson]

As a white person who grew up in Scotland, listening to Public Enemy,
and Paris, and reading the biography of Malcolm X, I don't exactly feel
comfortable making comment here. I think here there's clearly a lack of
sensitivity. It is likely to be unintentional, and in the case of the
unattributed source, they have at least corrected this soon after the
issue was raised publicly in the past few days.
I appreciate that race and racism have a lot to do with the Drexciya
story and UR. However, I do feel that the assertion here that it is
_all_ about race and racism, should be challenged. There is a cultural
context which is certainly important to remember. It's worth remembering
too those that were lost in such terrible conditions on their way to
America. I would argue that the music is not all about race and racism.
The music has a soul and that soul is humanist, not racist. It's not
racist towards white people from Europe. Drexciya stands against
slavery. We are all human beings. We are each responsible to our own
behaviour, and our shared futures. The music transcends race and racism.
We fight the power, and the slavers wherever they may be. Drawing a line
in the sand and saying that you don't belong here is not quite what I
think is intended by the music either. We are all belong to the sea in
some way. It's the strongest idea about it I feel.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Duke wrote:
> Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of
> publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's
> interview with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and
> thus this post ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below)
> re RA that was published Oct 11, just a few days before the 
> original--uncredited--
> Drexciya feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re
> the mess they made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others
> were ignored and 313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":> 
> https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond,
>  wrote:>> I told RA what I thought. They ignored 
> me. That's what usually
>> happens.>> 
>> 
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work*
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor
>>  wrote:>>> What about redubbing the audio with 
>> you narrating? Make a corrected
>>> version>>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond,
>>>  wrote: I love Drexciya. And it's really cool 
>>> to be able to hear from James
 Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty
 amazing that Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless
 artifact. I could go on! 
 Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted
 the video, and why is there a white woman's british voice
 narrating? It's off putting. They're using the voice of the
 colonizer to tell the story of brilliant, musical escape from
 enslavement and forced labor. Escape from the colonizer. 
 Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this
 actually all the way super duper is all about race and racism. 
 And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe,
 the birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
 Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving
 and protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
 Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they
 ask John Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists
 and fans alike. 
 
 
 Denise
 
 
 
 *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
 *ethnomusicologist*
 *schoolcraftwax.work*
 
 
 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis 
 wrote:> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this 
 short>  video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the
>  concepts>  behind Drexciya.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
> 
>  includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
> 
> 
>  thanks,
> 
>  Jeffrey J Davis
> 
> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
> 
> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
> 
>  218.833.2847

Dirty Dave P?

[kent williams]

Anyone know Dave Peoples?  Was watching a video on Electronic Beats with
Gilb'r going through 5 records he likes, and the first one up was Dave's
production on his label Vigilante records.

https://youtu.be/SzPliXb43TQ

The Gilb'r video is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz0ozn4rwdY

There was definitely a period in the last half of the 90s when Detroit
really exploded.  After that, more and more people moved to Europe and the
UK, and while there's always something going on in Detroit, the Big Moment
passed, after September 11, 2001 which knocked everything on it's ass. I
feel like that was a time where things went off the rails a bit.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Andrew Duke]

Sigh. I am absolutely disgusted by RA's handling of this at time of
publishing and since. Denise makes great points. Liz Copeland's interview
with James Stinson is also used. I am tired and cranky and thus this post
ain't eloquent. Someone just sent me this link (below) re RA that was
published Oct 11, just a few days before the original--uncredited--Drexciya
feature. The linked feature on RA is especially relevant re the mess they
made this week and how the concerns of Denise and others were ignored and
313-moderator Kent's concerns "downvoted":
https://telegra.ph/Precedent-Advisor-10-11


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:12 AM Denise Dalphond, 
wrote:

> I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor <
> callum.macgre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected
>> version
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>>
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>>> the colonizer.
>>>
>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>>
>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>>
>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>>
>>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask
>>> John Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>>> *ethnomusicologist*
>>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
 video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
 behind Drexciya.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8

 includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!


 thanks,

 Jeffrey J Davis

 j...@jeffreyjdavis.com

 www.jeffreyjdavis.com

 218.833.2847

>>>

Afternoon 313

[Martin Dust]

It’s been a long time 313,

Here’s some free weird stuff we’ve been making 
https://soundcloud.com/the-black-dog/sets/the-conspiracy-tapes-2018

Ambient vibes with a twist of strange.

m-tBd

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Denise Dalphond]

I told RA what I thought. They ignored me. That's what usually happens.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:11 AM Callum MacGregor <
callum.macgre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected
> version
>
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond, 
> wrote:
>
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>> the colonizer.
>>
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>
>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>
>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John
>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>> behind Drexciya.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>>
>>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>>
>>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>
>>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>
>>> 218.833.2847
>>>
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Callum MacGregor]

What about redubbing the audio with you narrating? Make a corrected
version

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018, 16:06 Denise Dalphond, 
wrote:

> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>
> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
> the colonizer.
>
> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>
> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>
> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>
> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John
> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>> behind Drexciya.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>
>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>
>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>
>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>
>> 218.833.2847
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Denise Dalphond]

I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James Stinson
still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that Andrew
Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!

Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
the colonizer.

Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
the way super duper is all about race and racism.

And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.

Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.

Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John
Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.



Denise



*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:

> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
> behind Drexciya.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>
> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>
>
> thanks,
>
> Jeffrey J Davis
>
> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>
> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>
> 218.833.2847
>

Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Jeff Davis]

Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
behind Drexciya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8

includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!


thanks,

Jeffrey J Davis

j...@jeffreyjdavis.com

www.jeffreyjdavis.com

218.833.2847

Re: Mike Servito set from "No Way Back" 2018

[Ronny Pries]

Yay, great set and share indeed!

> Am 17.10.2018 um 21:46 schrieb Andrew Duke :
> 
> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:32 PM kent williams,  > wrote:
> This just posted.  Mike is straight up Detroit, and one of those technically 
> perfect and emotionally deep DJs.  He's getting work all over the world now, 
> and couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
> https://soundcloud.com/ithqdetroit/itpodcasts07e04-mike-servito-no-way-back-2018
>  
>