Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
On 7/2/07, Jeff Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking forward big time to the M500 remixes, but I think vantage isle IS something special. There are some very nice moments on there; my fave being actually the all too short SpaceCho dub, which takes me straight back to BC-08. good stuff. the only joint on there that i love is the echospace glacial mix, which is basically just an ambient cut. im not trying to pay $40 or whatever for just that. Of course the convextion remix is dope, in a very transmat feel sort of way. its nice, but not as outstanding as most of his recent original works. tom
RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
they're both both still on. i am not sure what the release date for the frustrated funk record is. the e.r.p. remastered re-press will be out in august jt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jul 2, 2007 11:22 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion) While you're on the blower on this subject can we have an update on something you said in April and I've had flagged since: there is another e.r.p. coming later on frustrated funk as well. also the e.r.p. dLVEXT2 will be re-pressed this summer with new mastering what's the situation on these 2 releases? -Original Message- From: J.T. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 July 2007 16:07 the model 500 is officially on wax now, should have a copy by the end of the week, really curious about it!
RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
@ken yes you old and dunno poo mtf give it up 3 jt So long as I keep my whack taste, not veering down any dodgy spank rock or ed banger paths, no matter how 'ironically' I claim that I am doing this, I think I'll be fine! :)
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
On Jul 2, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On 7/2/07, Antonio Alves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's awesome given my white vinyl copy sounds like crap. they had black pressings of starlight available at submerge over the festival, they sound very good! colored wax always degrades quicker and picks up more crackles and pops, thats why i prefer black. How did I miss this? :( I guess I wasn't looking. I'll look for the release somewhere. Regards, Ramon tom
RE: (313) Justice
I am giving myself an award today. Because until a couple of weeks ago when some floodgate opened in the heavens on to Great Britain, and in the virtual world into 313, I'd never heard of Justice, Ed Banger, and Spank Rock etc. (DJ Funk of course is somewhat more well-established.) Two weeks later I still have not heard of these people, nor any of their music and by the look of the discussion about it, I think I'm grateful! But am I gob-smackingly out of touch? K
Re: (313) Justice
No. On 7/2/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am giving myself an award today. Because until a couple of weeks ago when some floodgate opened in the heavens on to Great Britain, and in the virtual world into 313, I'd never heard of Justice, Ed Banger, and Spank Rock etc. (DJ Funk of course is somewhat more well-established.) Two weeks later I still have not heard of these people, nor any of their music and by the look of the discussion about it, I think I'm grateful! But am I gob-smackingly out of touch? K
RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
Phew! OK, to get things somewhat back on topic, and as people mentioned M500 used in a commercial ... Was reading on another forum that Starlight by Model 500 (co-produced by Mortiz von Oswald) has been remixed by Convextion and a special package of the original and the new mix are due to be released on echospace [detroit]. Ken -Original Message- From: kent williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 July 2007 14:24 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) Justice No. On 7/2/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am giving myself an award today. Because until a couple of weeks ago when some floodgate opened in the heavens on to Great Britain, and in the virtual world into 313, I'd never heard of Justice, Ed Banger, and Spank Rock etc. (DJ Funk of course is somewhat more well-established.) Two weeks later I still have not heard of these people, nor any of their music and by the look of the discussion about it, I think I'm grateful! But am I gob-smackingly out of touch? K
RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
ooohhh! -Original Message- From: Odeluga, Ken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 July 2007 14:42 To: kent williams Cc: list 313 Subject: RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion) Phew! OK, to get things somewhat back on topic, and as people mentioned M500 used in a commercial ... Was reading on another forum that Starlight by Model 500 (co-produced by Mortiz von Oswald) has been remixed by Convextion and a special package of the original and the new mix are due to be released on echospace [detroit]. Ken -Original Message- From: kent williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 July 2007 14:24 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) Justice No. On 7/2/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am giving myself an award today. Because until a couple of weeks ago when some floodgate opened in the heavens on to Great Britain, and in the virtual world into 313, I'd never heard of Justice, Ed Banger, and Spank Rock etc. (DJ Funk of course is somewhat more well-established.) Two weeks later I still have not heard of these people, nor any of their music and by the look of the discussion about it, I think I'm grateful! But am I gob-smackingly out of touch? K For all the latest news and comment visit www.telegraph.co.uk. This message, its contents and any attachments to it are private, confidential and may be the subject of legal privilege. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination of the whole or part of this message (without our prior written consent) is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. Incoming and outgoing telephone calls to our offices may be monitored or recorded for training and quality control purposes and for confirming orders and information. Telegraph Media Group Limited is a limited liability company registered in England and Wales (company number 451593). Our registered office address is: 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 0DT.
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
now that is exciting. can he improve on the original? if any man can, he can. On 02/07/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phew! OK, to get things somewhat back on topic, and as people mentioned M500 used in a commercial ... Was reading on another forum that Starlight by Model 500 (co-produced by Mortiz von Oswald) has been remixed by Convextion and a special package of the original and the new mix are due to be released on echospace [detroit]. Ken -Original Message- From: kent williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 July 2007 14:24 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) Justice No. On 7/2/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am giving myself an award today. Because until a couple of weeks ago when some floodgate opened in the heavens on to Great Britain, and in the virtual world into 313, I'd never heard of Justice, Ed Banger, and Spank Rock etc. (DJ Funk of course is somewhat more well-established.) Two weeks later I still have not heard of these people, nor any of their music and by the look of the discussion about it, I think I'm grateful! But am I gob-smackingly out of touch? K
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
I look forward to that. I see that Cybotron's Clear has been remixed too. From clips (it's on Juno's label) they don't sound like my cup of tea though. robin... Was reading on another forum that Starlight by Model 500 (co- produced by Mortiz von Oswald) has been remixed by Convextion and a special package of the original and the new mix are due to be released on echospace [detroit].
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
On 7/2/07, robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I look forward to that. I see that Cybotron's Clear has been remixed too. From clips (it's on Juno's label) they don't sound like my cup of tea though. cobblestone jazz's cover is kinda alright, i probably wouldnt buy it but if someone else played it i wouldnt be offended. troy pierce's mix is the worst crap ive heard in a long long time. he should be taken out back and beaten. as for the starlight, the moritz mix is already dubbed out enough for my taste, im not sure if anyone can do it better than one of the BC cats. but i guess we'll see. i still think that vantage isle was way overrated but people cant seem to get enough of it. tom
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
the model 500 is officially on wax now, should have a copy by the end of the week, really curious about it! it has original, echospace remix, convextion remix. i have no idea what either of the remixes sound like, or if it is gus more in dub mode or techno but i suspect the latter. echospace is not deepchord btw, it's a collab between soultek and rod from deepchord. i really liked their miranda remix and soultek has played me stuff that is all over the map s...hmmm! i'm also excited to hear the original with new mastering because the original is one of the crustier sounding metroplex records iirc? i still haven't really heard vantage isle either, my copy got lost in the mail. i remember thinking it sounded nice but nothing special from clips, except for gerard's remix ;P very cool to hear dope jams (in nyc) is that good, wow.. @ken yes you old and dunno poo mtf give it up 3 jt -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jul 2, 2007 10:38 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion) On 7/2/07, robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I look forward to that. I see that Cybotron's Clear has been remixed too. From clips (it's on Juno's label) they don't sound like my cup of tea though. cobblestone jazz's cover is kinda alright, i probably wouldnt buy it but if someone else played it i wouldnt be offended. troy pierce's mix is the worst crap ive heard in a long long time. he should be taken out back and beaten. as for the starlight, the moritz mix is already dubbed out enough for my taste, im not sure if anyone can do it better than one of the BC cats. but i guess we'll see. i still think that vantage isle was way overrated but people cant seem to get enough of it. tom
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
That's awesome given my white vinyl copy sounds like crap. Are there any plans for the re-release of Venus in Spurs too? :) Antonio On Jul 2, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Odeluga, Ken wrote: Phew! OK, to get things somewhat back on topic, and as people mentioned M500 used in a commercial ... Was reading on another forum that Starlight by Model 500 (co- produced by Mortiz von Oswald) has been remixed by Convextion and a special package of the original and the new mix are due to be released on echospace [detroit]. Ken
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
On 7/2/07, Antonio Alves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's awesome given my white vinyl copy sounds like crap. they had black pressings of starlight available at submerge over the festival, they sound very good! colored wax always degrades quicker and picks up more crackles and pops, thats why i prefer black. tom
RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
While you're on the blower on this subject can we have an update on something you said in April and I've had flagged since: there is another e.r.p. coming later on frustrated funk as well. also the e.r.p. dLVEXT2 will be re-pressed this summer with new mastering what's the situation on these 2 releases? -Original Message- From: J.T. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 July 2007 16:07 the model 500 is officially on wax now, should have a copy by the end of the week, really curious about it!
Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
Plus the RS pressing on the Deep Space album is nice as well, never had a problem with any crusties in my mix. Speaking of Convextion his record on AW is very nice, Arne has been holding it down for quite some time, So I'm glad to see the added exposure his releases as well the more recent releases on his label (Kubra, Convextion, etc) have gotten. Keep it up! jw On 7/2/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the model 500 is officially on wax now, should have a copy by the end of the week, really curious about it! it has original, echospace remix, convextion remix. i have no idea what either of the remixes sound like, or if it is gus more in dub mode or techno but i suspect the latter. echospace is not deepchord btw, it's a collab between soultek and rod from deepchord. i really liked their miranda remix and soultek has played me stuff that is all over the map s...hmmm! i'm also excited to hear the original with new mastering because the original is one of the crustier sounding metroplex records iirc? i still haven't really heard vantage isle either, my copy got lost in the mail. i remember thinking it sounded nice but nothing special from clips, except for gerard's remix ;P very cool to hear dope jams (in nyc) is that good, wow.. @ken yes you old and dunno poo mtf give it up 3 jt -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jul 2, 2007 10:38 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion) On 7/2/07, robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I look forward to that. I see that Cybotron's Clear has been remixed too. From clips (it's on Juno's label) they don't sound like my cup of tea though. cobblestone jazz's cover is kinda alright, i probably wouldnt buy it but if someone else played it i wouldnt be offended. troy pierce's mix is the worst crap ive heard in a long long time. he should be taken out back and beaten. as for the starlight, the moritz mix is already dubbed out enough for my taste, im not sure if anyone can do it better than one of the BC cats. but i guess we'll see. i still think that vantage isle was way overrated but people cant seem to get enough of it. tom -- Technoir Audio http://www.technoiraudio.com dealing with your imperfect world
RE: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion)
I'm looking forward big time to the M500 remixes, but I think vantage isle IS something special. There are some very nice moments on there; my fave being actually the all too short SpaceCho dub, which takes me straight back to BC-08. good stuff. Am I right in thinking that SpaceCho is just another moniker for Echoplex? Of course the convextion remix is dope, in a very transmat feel sort of way. J.T. said: i still haven't really heard vantage isle either, my copy got lost in the mail. i remember thinking it sounded nice but nothing special from clips, except for gerard's remix ;P Jeff Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] M: 980.322.1452 Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreyjdavis -Original Message- From: J.T. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:07 AM To: Thomas D. Cox,Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion) the model 500 is officially on wax now, should have a copy by the end of the week, really curious about it! it has original, echospace remix, convextion remix. i have no idea what either of the remixes sound like, or if it is gus more in dub mode or techno but i suspect the latter. echospace is not deepchord btw, it's a collab between soultek and rod from deepchord. i really liked their miranda remix and soultek has played me stuff that is all over the map s...hmmm! i'm also excited to hear the original with new mastering because the original is one of the crustier sounding metroplex records iirc? i still haven't really heard vantage isle either, my copy got lost in the mail. i remember thinking it sounded nice but nothing special from clips, except for gerard's remix ;P very cool to hear dope jams (in nyc) is that good, wow.. @ken yes you old and dunno poo mtf give it up 3 jt -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jul 2, 2007 10:38 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice (Into Model 500/Convextion) On 7/2/07, robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I look forward to that. I see that Cybotron's Clear has been remixed too. From clips (it's on Juno's label) they don't sound like my cup of tea though. cobblestone jazz's cover is kinda alright, i probably wouldnt buy it but if someone else played it i wouldnt be offended. troy pierce's mix is the worst crap ive heard in a long long time. he should be taken out back and beaten. as for the starlight, the moritz mix is already dubbed out enough for my taste, im not sure if anyone can do it better than one of the BC cats. but i guess we'll see. i still think that vantage isle was way overrated but people cant seem to get enough of it. tom
RE: (313) Justice
-Original Message- From: Generator Music [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 June 2007 19:55 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice Nevermind rolling stones or spinwhat about that Ford commercial??? I personally thought it was the Jackie Robinson moment for Detroit Techno, the break this music was waiting for. I thought it was the greatest thing ever to happen to this music and it was a sign of things to come for this music ACROSS the board. But nooo, mugs' egos and the lack of foresight by everyone, including the audience ruined it. And none of it was Ford's fault either. So basically we all saw what happened if this music TRIED to leave the underground. It still kills me to this day of that missed opportunity. Marina But you get good music in adverts in the UK all the time. Case in point: Dabrye's been all over Motorola ads in cinemas and beyond for over a year, yet James T. Cotton played to less than 100 people here at one of the most successful techno night in London last weekend. They TOOK A CHANCE on the dude who's music has been all over the television, and they lost (financially, not musically). But I guarantee you that his production of the track that became the Motorola theme tune '06 had absolutely nothing to do with their decision to book him. They wanted to hear him play acid. It's music that's over 20 years old and they didn't give a damn about his futuristic hip hop endeavours on this occasion. This from Split, who have a hip hop afficianado running tings. I'm very doubtful that had Tadd Mullinix been billed as Dabrye it would've been any different. The simple fact is that this music is not destined to be popular, with the exception of a few very rare anomolies. Maybe it gets some people some extra cash to live through some licensing deals, and that's a good thing, but anyone laboured with the illusion that this music is going to make a difference to the world at this point is living in a dream. It's a niche music for a very small niche. Those who love it, love it plenty, and rock out severely when it's done well, but any expectations of anything more than pleasing a few hundred, or at best a couple of thousand punters here and there is just silly. Ny the way - if you get the chance to check the Nation of Jack tour, don't sleep. Traxx and co. are rocking it severely. Tristan === http://www.phonopsia.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: (313) Justice
I just think it is horrid horrid horrid horrid music - I don't know about the image - I've never seen a picture of them Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 June 2007 18:13 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice Yeah I didn't know it was some faux pas to mention them here. Laurent likes and plays them. Is it the image or music you dislike? I am enjoying the Justice album. There is a French sensibility I like. The song DANCE written for Michael Jackson's lost childhood has a pathos. I am surprised people here wouldn't like Mehdi though - that's innovative hip-hop. On 25/06/2007, at 6:28 PM, Odeluga, Ken wrote: I'm sure you wouldn't vomit if you concentrated on the tastiness of his name Tom. :) Just think, we have Ed(ward), as in King Edwards (a variety of English Potatoes) and 'Bangers' - slang for sausages. These are what you need for 'bangers and mash' ... that staple of UK haute cuisine ... and only slightly more stodgy than the Justice sound, imo. Ken -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 June 2007 18:29 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/24/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does everyone think of these guys? I am really enjoying the album. The French really have their own sound and ethos. I love Mehdi on Ed Banger too! I feel they're doing what Technasia might have done - becoming a techno Daft Punk! daft punk is techno. ed banger stuff makes me wanna vomit. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 #
RE: (313) Justice
Tsk - I think some grime works - at least those guys are not trying to sound American - a lot of the MCs DO sound like petulant teens having a tantrum (cos mainly they are) and are trying to spit out too many syllables, but people like Wiley have really found their own unique sound and fair play to them. I think it's daft to say it's 'like asking a Papua New Guinean to yodel' - you can't say that only the Americans can rap - that's misplaced imperial pride at work and I thought only Brits suffered from that! Ooops, forgot you were a Limey for a sec, T! Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Tristan Watkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 June 2007 09:58 To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:57 AM Subject: [SPAM-LOW] Re: (313) Justice On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something. I agree, although I really struggle with most British MCs too. It's kind of like asking a Papua New Guinean to yodel. That said, I've got some time for MC Solaar and a few other exceptions to the rule. Tristan === [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phonopsia.co.uk # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 #
RE: (313) Justice
Haha Tom, you are a great big silly Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 June 2007 22:10 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's all cultural politics, which concerns me, but it's beside the fact of whether the music is good or not, and while i can't say it doesn't affect my opinion of music if i know the backstory etc, i don't think it should. its not cultural politics, its whats right and whats wrong. elvis was just trying to make some music he loved, he wasn't trying to steal black music, and he didn't sound just like black music. he can't help it that white america loved his music, what was he supposed to do, say thanks anyway, but keep your money i'd rather be a starving artist? or should he have just stuck to making white music and minded his place? that's a real narrow view and we wouldn't have a lot of great musical styles if people did that. he should have said this is wrong, i am not the king of rock and roll, this is all nonsense, these are the people who made this music, they should be getting paid and be popular. obviously, he never did anything of the sort. he was all too happy to continue the bamboozlement because it put cash in his pocket. which is why i dont give a sh*t about elvis. if everybody thought like that, people would have dismissed techno (ahem) as just some black guys trying to sound like german guys. but thats obviously not true. or how about convextion, he's not black, and he's not from detroit so? was he trying to white wash a sound to make it popular for people who are outside of its usual audience? obviously you fall into the same category, you come from this culture, you make the music. there's no problem with that. if you're going to get all political about music, don't blame the artists, blame society. but the artists are the ones who control how they are marketed and who their crowds are and what the perception of their music is. its possible to do it the right way without being a bullsh*t artist. i didn't even know ayres was white and i think it has f*ckall to do with whether he's a good dj or not, nor do i think the fact that he's popular while the original guys aren't has anything to do with how his music sounds. his music is a joke, that has nothing to do with why i dont like these other aspects of it. but the fact that people equate his joke music to club music is what really irritates me. besides, like rob g says, spank and ayres etc have their own sound, they're not just imitators. no, theyre selling an image of that music to people who peddle in irony instead of good music. its even worse than being an imitator IMO. who cares? music is what it is, i don't care who's playing it or how much street cred it has if i really like it. street cred? what are you talking about? all music is part of a culture that shapes the sounds. if someone is not part of that culture and just jacks the sounds, theyre just pirates. which is what titface and whatshisname do. music is not just some notes played on an instrument, there's a reason for each note and each rhythm. if i don't like it i am more likely to focus on all these things you are, but it's nonsense really, nothing to do with the actual aesthetics of music. i cant disagree more. watered down crap isnt going to sound as good as the stuff its ripping off, it never does. maybe if youve never heard the real stuff, knock offs sound okay. i don't like el-p because i don't like his voice or his flow, not because he's white and didn't grow up in bed-stuy and doesn't get played by [blank] i like el-p's beats because he came from hiphop culture and his audience is a hiphop audience. i dont like his rhyming because it is weak. that is different from why i dont like someone like tithead and whatever or spank rock. sh*t, what they do could be being done solely by black artists and i would still think it was just as weak. of course i dont think its a coincidence that these kinds of things are almost always perpetrated by white artists. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 #
RE: (313) Justice
What's this club music that keeps being mentioned? To me it's a generic term like dance music, but I get the impression it's a bit more specific than that in the context you are using the term Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 June 2007 04:26 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did chi people get all protective when detroit did their take on house? probably some did. detroit had their own dance culture already going on, as well as taking part in chicago's house culture. insisting that new permutations are wrong is just assanine imo. i dont care if the permutation is new. there are plenty that are just fine and dont have anything to do with cultural appropriation in any way. i dont have any problems with that. i don't care if indie rockers start doing some retarded take on techno and get famous for it, go for it, i won't enjoy it and i'll talk sh*t on it and give it a stupid name, but it has as \ much a right to exist as anything else. it can exist all it wants. but im going to talk sh*t on it. and call it names. which is what im doing. and youre saying i shouldnt? this is all art 101 if you ask me, but tmo is acting like it's a sport of keepin it real. it has nothing to do with keeping it real. i like how since we're talking about black music i have seen the words on the street and keeping it real thrown about in reference to my opinions, yet i never use those phrases, i talk about artists being part of a culture. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. name these people whose music is not from a culture. it doesnt exist. i don't know spank rock and i don't know their motivations or personalities and i don't presume to know. all i can go by is what i hear and read. if they dont want to be judged on that, they should do a better job of PR. i keep hearing tom assert that they are fronting on bmore club, but i think their name is supposed to be a concept in itself, it's spank rock. yes, it's got a rock attitude. it's not bmore club per se, it's in the name for godsakes why then does every single review, writeup, etc mention baltimore and club music? they dont even live there anymore. they try to cash in on that credential. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 #
RE: (313) Justice
That contradicts what you've just been saying, you silly person Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 June 2007 17:19 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm so shocked and disappointed that a serious, real artist such as DJ Funk (from a genuine place like Chicago) would pander to working with such transparent and vapid scenesters as Justice (from Paris no less... what the hell do they know about culture anyway?) their money spends as well as anyone else's. and its good that someone with some actual place to make money from such music is getting it instead of the other jokers they have on there. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 #
RE: (313) Justice
Think you meant to send it to the list, not just me! Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Süd Electronic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 June 2007 10:54 To: Robert Taylor Subject: Re: (313) Justice must add my two pence , .this is horrid horrid music .the whole ed banger thing leaves me cold . kanye west and the whole mtv awards thing really is to blame for putting these guys on the map . my 19 year old house mate , can't get enough of this lot . he tried to tell me how innovative these guys as electronic musicians are and how they are bringing a fresh sound to dance music . by this point , i needed a sick bucket and arrogantly , trashed his argument . i think a majority of the people , who are into this sort of thing are really young this is their idea of innovative music :( Robert Taylor wrote: I just think it is horrid horrid horrid horrid music - I don't know about the image - I've never seen a picture of them Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 June 2007 18:13 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice Yeah I didn't know it was some faux pas to mention them here. Laurent likes and plays them. Is it the image or music you dislike? I am enjoying the Justice album. There is a French sensibility I like. The song DANCE written for Michael Jackson's lost childhood has a pathos. I am surprised people here wouldn't like Mehdi though - that's innovative hip-hop. On 25/06/2007, at 6:28 PM, Odeluga, Ken wrote: I'm sure you wouldn't vomit if you concentrated on the tastiness of his name Tom. :) Just think, we have Ed(ward), as in King Edwards (a variety of English Potatoes) and 'Bangers' - slang for sausages. These are what you need for 'bangers and mash' ... that staple of UK haute cuisine ... and only slightly more stodgy than the Justice sound, imo. Ken -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 June 2007 18:29 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/24/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does everyone think of these guys? I am really enjoying the album. The French really have their own sound and ethos. I love Mehdi on Ed Banger too! I feel they're doing what Technasia might have done - becoming a techno Daft Punk! daft punk is techno. ed banger stuff makes me wanna vomit. tom ## ### Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 ## ### # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 #
RE: (313) Justice
It's funny how the French and English Nu Rave kids love booty though - DJ Funk played Fabric in London recently and I didn't hear about it til afterwards cos it was on a Friday and he was playing at an Ed Banger showcase, rather than the usual Saturday house/techno night (Fridays is usually breaks and drum n bass) Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 June 2007 11:20 To: Süd Electronic Cc: list 313 Subject: RE: (313) Justice Think you meant to send it to the list, not just me! Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Süd Electronic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 June 2007 10:54 To: Robert Taylor Subject: Re: (313) Justice must add my two pence , .this is horrid horrid music .the whole ed banger thing leaves me cold . kanye west and the whole mtv awards thing really is to blame for putting these guys on the map . my 19 year old house mate , can't get enough of this lot . he tried to tell me how innovative these guys as electronic musicians are and how they are bringing a fresh sound to dance music . by this point , i needed a sick bucket and arrogantly , trashed his argument . i think a majority of the people , who are into this sort of thing are really young this is their idea of innovative music :( Robert Taylor wrote: I just think it is horrid horrid horrid horrid music - I don't know about the image - I've never seen a picture of them Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 June 2007 18:13 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice Yeah I didn't know it was some faux pas to mention them here. Laurent likes and plays them. Is it the image or music you dislike? I am enjoying the Justice album. There is a French sensibility I like. The song DANCE written for Michael Jackson's lost childhood has a pathos. I am surprised people here wouldn't like Mehdi though - that's innovative hip-hop. On 25/06/2007, at 6:28 PM, Odeluga, Ken wrote: I'm sure you wouldn't vomit if you concentrated on the tastiness of his name Tom. :) Just think, we have Ed(ward), as in King Edwards (a variety of English Potatoes) and 'Bangers' - slang for sausages. These are what you need for 'bangers and mash' ... that staple of UK haute cuisine ... and only slightly more stodgy than the Justice sound, imo. Ken -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 June 2007 18:29 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/24/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does everyone think of these guys? I am really enjoying the album. The French really have their own sound and ethos. I love Mehdi on Ed Banger too! I feel they're doing what Technasia might have done - becoming a techno Daft Punk! daft punk is techno. ed banger stuff makes me wanna vomit. tom ## ### Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 ## ### # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel 4, 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX. VAT no. GB 626475817 # # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel
RE: (313) Justice
-Original Message- From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 June 2007 10:44 To: Tristan Watkins; Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [SPAM-LOW] RE: (313) Justice Tsk - I think some grime works - at least those guys are not trying to sound American - a lot of the MCs DO sound like petulant teens having a tantrum (cos mainly they are) and are trying to spit out too many syllables, but people like Wiley have really found their own unique sound and fair play to them. I think it's daft to say it's 'like asking a Papua New Guinean to yodel' - you can't say that only the Americans can rap - that's misplaced imperial pride at work and I thought only Brits suffered from that! The fact that there are only exceptions to this rule kind of proves it. Someone off-list mentioned Slick Rick. I mean, how could I forget Slick Rick? He's the Original British MC and he definitely had his own style/did it right. So maybe it isn't like asking a Papua New Guinean to yodel. Maybe it's like asking a Papua New Guinean to develop his own unique yodeling style, which is as good as the best Swiss yodelers. Tristan === http://www.phonopsia.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) Justice
I'm sorry for all those weary of this thread at this point, I don't blame ya. but for anyone that has found something interesting here then check this out. over on the hollerboard the question is asked whether all the media hype has killed b-more club at this point... and DJ Technics chimes in... http://www.low-bee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21236start=120 - Original Message From: J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thomas D. Cox,Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 2:32:19 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice but I guess I just don't get what *would* be a genuine way of calling attention to the music? (in contrast to this disingenuous manner). well put..i agree with most of what tom is saying at some level, but it's impossibly idealistic and entirely speculative. idealism is vital tho. but yeah. who knows exactly what would happen if somehow someway the crazy real club stuff got mainstream coverage, but i highly doubt it would take off like spank rock, there's no foundation for it too. the foundation ahs to be built sometime somewhere though if something like that is ever going to happen. i remember how excited i was to see articles in rolling stone and spin some years back about the belleville 3, thinking yes, the rest of the world is finally going to wake up to this brilliant music and real dance music will become a viable part of the music industry!bzzt! but then again, it depends on your pov. playlists from ibiza have gotten better, and i'm certainly happier to see kompakt inhabiting the same space moonshine and company used to. it could be better, maybe, but it could also be much worse. something is usually better than nothing, and that goes for spank's mis-credit as bmore club as well Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
Re: (313) Justice
Nevermind rolling stones or spinwhat about that Ford commercial??? I personally thought it was the Jackie Robinson moment for Detroit Techno, the break this music was waiting for. I thought it was the greatest thing ever to happen to this music and it was a sign of things to come for this music ACROSS the board. But nooo, mugs' egos and the lack of foresight by everyone, including the audience ruined it. And none of it was Ford's fault either. So basically we all saw what happened if this music TRIED to leave the underground. It still kills me to this day of that missed opportunity. Marina J.T. wrote: but I guess I just don't get what *would* be a genuine way of calling attention to the music? (in contrast to this disingenuous manner). well put..i agree with most of what tom is saying at some level, but it's impossibly idealistic and entirely speculative. idealism is vital tho. but yeah. who knows exactly what would happen if somehow someway the crazy real club stuff got mainstream coverage, but i highly doubt it would take off like spank rock, there's no foundation for it too. the foundation ahs to be built sometime somewhere though if something like that is ever going to happen. i remember how excited i was to see articles in rolling stone and spin some years back about the belleville 3, thinking yes, the rest of the world is finally going to wake up to this brilliant music and real dance music will become a viable part of the music industry!bzzt! but then again, it depends on your pov. playlists from ibiza have gotten better, and i'm certainly happier to see kompakt inhabiting the same space moonshine and company used to. it could be better, maybe, but it could also be much worse. something is usually better than nothing, and that goes for spank's mis-credit as bmore club as well M. Tang | A R Generator Detroit/Chicago/Berlin email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim. jiji2017 www.generatormusic.com = Coming soon: GEN029 - Neon Sex Fiend - Elektrofive (12) Remixes by DJ K1, Ultradyne, and Mauser. Soundclips @ www.generatormusic.com
Re: (313) Justice
I'm not entirely sure who it is you think missed the opportunity. They showed that ad a lot, and if anyone watching TV thought 'wow what is that?' they could have hit the internet to find out. I'm sure there is someone out there that saw that commercial and was turned on to the music, but that happened before licensing music for a commercial became a big deal. Now every band's dream is to sell a track for a commercial, and their CDs go out with stickers that say AS HEARD IN THE LATEST STAY FRESH MAXIPAD COMMERCIAL. That was also when people thought a half million people were showing up at DEMF. I'm not sure the US is ever going to take Techno out of the underground. All the American artists making the music make most of their money overseas. The majority of Americans are so musically conservative that Radiohead is considered edgy for using electronic percussion. Most Americans are turned off by any music that doesn't feature a prominent vocal. On 6/29/07, Generator Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nevermind rolling stones or spinwhat about that Ford commercial??? I personally thought it was the Jackie Robinson moment for Detroit Techno, the break this music was waiting for. I thought it was the greatest thing ever to happen to this music and it was a sign of things to come for this music ACROSS the board. But nooo, mugs' egos and the lack of foresight by everyone, including the audience ruined it. And none of it was Ford's fault either. So basically we all saw what happened if this music TRIED to leave the underground. It still kills me to this day of that missed opportunity. Marina
Re: (313) Justice
Everyone or anyone making this type of music. Yes, they showed the ad but this stuff takes a while since this music doesn't conform to stereotypes. And one commerical isn't going to do it but its a start. It would have encouraged challenging creativity in the music for different purposes. Major/indie films, commercials, and you know what? Hell, why not even maxipad commericals? Female techno producers can hit that. What's wrong with it, if done tastefully? At least the opportunities will be there, whether or not the artist is brought upfront like Juan was or doing a project inconspicuously like I happen to hear a track used on CSI Vegas by Basic Channel I think it was. That's all I'm saying. Opportunity. We always b*tch n' moan about people like Moby, Paul Oakenfold, Tiesto seeing them in something prominent but yet when its good underground Detroit Techno music tries to get a chance to really be included tastefully in mainstream culture, it gets slapped back. H, I REALLY wonder why... M. kent williams wrote: I'm not entirely sure who it is you think missed the opportunity. They showed that ad a lot, and if anyone watching TV thought 'wow what is that?' they could have hit the internet to find out. I'm sure there is someone out there that saw that commercial and was turned on to the music, but that happened before licensing music for a commercial became a big deal. Now every band's dream is to sell a track for a commercial, and their CDs go out with stickers that say AS HEARD IN THE LATEST STAY FRESH MAXIPAD COMMERCIAL. That was also when people thought a half million people were showing up at DEMF. I'm not sure the US is ever going to take Techno out of the underground. All the American artists making the music make most of their money overseas. The majority of Americans are so musically conservative that Radiohead is considered edgy for using electronic percussion. Most Americans are turned off by any music that doesn't feature a prominent vocal. On 6/29/07, Generator Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nevermind rolling stones or spinwhat about that Ford commercial??? I personally thought it was the Jackie Robinson moment for Detroit Techno, the break this music was waiting for. I thought it was the greatest thing ever to happen to this music and it was a sign of things to come for this music ACROSS the board. But nooo, mugs' egos and the lack of foresight by everyone, including the audience ruined it. And none of it was Ford's fault either. So basically we all saw what happened if this music TRIED to leave the underground. It still kills me to this day of that missed opportunity. Marina M. Tang | A R Generator Detroit/Chicago/Berlin email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim. jiji2017 www.generatormusic.com = Coming soon: GEN029 - Neon Sex Fiend - Elektrofive (12) Remixes by DJ K1, Ultradyne, and Mauser. Soundclips @ www.generatormusic.com
Re: (313) Justice
you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Re: (313) Justice
y0y0y0y0y0y0y0y00y00y0yy0y0y0y0y00y0yy00y0y00y0y0y0y0y0y00y0y0y0y0y0yy0, i dont see why this even matters anyways, either music is good or it isnt. tom has the for-real-o-meter though, for real. G. - Original Message - From: Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Re: (313) Justice
that's the whole point. who cares with being down with a culture or not. who CARES! i have a great cd that is supposedly traditional south american indian music, but it's actually made by music professors from sao paolo. it's great, i like it, i could care less about how real they are etc. where do you draw the line on these judgement calls of realness anyways, and does it ever have positive effects? i mean what is the point? did chi people get all protective when detroit did their take on house? probably some did. i don't have time for that sort of nonsense. music is meant to bleed all over the place, it's in its nature, it's what it do. trace a style back and you can keep tracing it all the way back to africa. you don't have to like the new permutations, but insisting that new permutations are wrong is just assanine imo. i don't care if indie rockers start doing some retarded take on techno and get famous for it, go for it, i won't enjoy it and i'll talk sh*t on it and give it a stupid name, but it has as much a right to exist as anything else. this is all art 101 if you ask me, but tmo is acting like it's a sport of keepin it real. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. or maybe they're gregarious a-holes, who knows. i don't know spank rock and i don't know their motivations or personalities and i don't presume to know. i keep hearing tom assert that they are fronting on bmore club, but i think their name is supposed to be a concept in itself, it's spank rock. yes, it's got a rock attitude. it's not bmore club per se, it's in the name for godsakes -Original Message- From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 27, 2007 8:01 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice y0y0y0y0y0y0y0y00y00y0yy0y0y0y0y00y0yy00y0y00y0y0y0y0y0y00y0y0y0y0y0yy0, i dont see why this even matters anyways, either music is good or it isnt. tom has the for-real-o-meter though, for real. G. - Original Message - From: Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Re: (313) Justice finale??
someone wake me up when they get out the kiddie pool and mud. or might I suggest just chasing eachother in a circle for similar results. ;) agree to disagree, it's the art of mature discussion. --- J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's the whole point. who cares with being down with a culture or not. who CARES! i have a great cd that is supposedly traditional south american indian music, but it's actually made by music professors from sao paolo. it's great, i like it, i could care less about how real they are etc. where do you draw the line on these judgement calls of realness anyways, and does it ever have positive effects? i mean what is the point? did chi people get all protective when detroit did their take on house? probably some did. i don't have time for that sort of nonsense. music is meant to bleed all over the place, it's in its nature, it's what it do. trace a style back and you can keep tracing it all the way back to africa. you don't have to like the new permutations, but insisting that new permutations are wrong is just assanine imo. i don't care if indie rockers start doing some retarded take on techno and get famous for it, go for it, i won't enjoy it and i'll talk sh*t on it and give it a stupid name, but it has as much a right to exist as anything else. this is all art 101 if you ask me, but tmo is acting like it's a sport of keepin it real. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. or maybe they're gregarious a-holes, who knows. i don't know spank rock and i don't know their motivations or personalities and i don't presume to know. i keep hearing tom assert that they are fronting on bmore club, but i think their name is supposed to be a concept in itself, it's spank rock. yes, it's got a rock attitude. it's not bmore club per se, it's in the name for godsakes -Original Message- From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 27, 2007 8:01 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice y0y0y0y0y0y0y0y00y00y0yy0y0y0y0y00y0yy00y0y00y0y0y0y0y0y00y0y0y0y0y0yy0, i dont see why this even matters anyways, either music is good or it isnt. tom has the for-real-o-meter though, for real. G. - Original Message - From: Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidscs=bz
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did chi people get all protective when detroit did their take on house? probably some did. detroit had their own dance culture already going on, as well as taking part in chicago's house culture. insisting that new permutations are wrong is just assanine imo. i dont care if the permutation is new. there are plenty that are just fine and dont have anything to do with cultural appropriation in any way. i dont have any problems with that. i don't care if indie rockers start doing some retarded take on techno and get famous for it, go for it, i won't enjoy it and i'll talk sh*t on it and give it a stupid name, but it has as \ much a right to exist as anything else. it can exist all it wants. but im going to talk sh*t on it. and call it names. which is what im doing. and youre saying i shouldnt? this is all art 101 if you ask me, but tmo is acting like it's a sport of keepin it real. it has nothing to do with keeping it real. i like how since we're talking about black music i have seen the words on the street and keeping it real thrown about in reference to my opinions, yet i never use those phrases, i talk about artists being part of a culture. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. name these people whose music is not from a culture. it doesnt exist. i don't know spank rock and i don't know their motivations or personalities and i don't presume to know. all i can go by is what i hear and read. if they dont want to be judged on that, they should do a better job of PR. i keep hearing tom assert that they are fronting on bmore club, but i think their name is supposed to be a concept in itself, it's spank rock. yes, it's got a rock attitude. it's not bmore club per se, it's in the name for godsakes why then does every single review, writeup, etc mention baltimore and club music? they dont even live there anymore. they try to cash in on that credential. tom
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? they would have records out on labels, have deejay residencies, live in baltimore, etc etc. instead they came from nowhere and represent this stuff on worldwide label. I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). they can say that all they want, but who decides? rod lee opened for spank rock at a bmore show. http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2006/11/02/ArtsAndEntertainment/Baltimore.Club.And.Spank.Rock.Attract.A.Hipster.Crowd-2439111.shtml the guy is not critical of spank rock, but look how differently he describes rod lee and how he talks about the hollertronix guys. being down and giving these people opening slots is almost more insulting to the culture than it is in helping people get down with it in anything more than the most superficial and ridiculous manner. tom
Re: (313) Justice
also JT, if you want an example of doing it right by these small genres, look to Mo Wax in the summer of 00. they wanted to represent ghetto tech and miami bass, but they didnt go out and find some white hipsters to make a joke out of it. instead they got DJ Assault and Magic Mike to drop LPs: http://www.discogs.com/release/14733 http://www.discogs.com/release/94662 now thats how to do it right. and i remember they got heavily criticised by the usual Mo Wax fans for dropping those LPs. doing it right isnt always the easy way, and it certainly isnt the way to make money. tom
Re: (313) Justice
also JT, if you want an example of doing it right by these small genres, look to Mo Wax in the summer of 00. they wanted to represent ghetto tech and miami bass, but they didnt go out and find some white hipsters to make a joke out of it. instead they got DJ Assault and Magic Mike to drop LPs: wait, we're talking about labels now? well, mo'wax were just putting out music they liked. i know those guys, i worked with them too remember. it should also be noted dj assault was the hype then, coming off coverage in rolling stone and spin etc, and was an obvious choice with little competition. just like spank rock was an obvious choice for ninja tune because they were selling out shows everywhere and had some hype, and because ninja tune dug their music. maybe technics should have sent them a demo. i sure wish they'd put out technics too, but it's not spank's fault they don't, and technics has got his stuff worked out anyways. so why all the drama and bitterness and why are you directing it where you are? what is this big conspiracy you think has occurred, what are the motives for pushing spank and not technics? there's loads of bad music out there, is it the crappy artists' fault when it miraculously becomes popular, or their label's for picking it up and torturing the world with it and embarking on a marketing campaign etc etc?
Re: (313) Justice
detroit had their own dance culture already going on, as well as taking part in chicago's house culture. detroit had it's own sub-culture yes, they shouldn't have come along and appropriated chicago's. and chicago shouldn't have appropriated new york's. music institute was just a wannabe music box was just a wannabe paradise garage where do you draw the lines? why bother? i dont care if the permutation is new. there are plenty that are just fine and dont have anything to do with cultural appropriation in any way. i dont have any problems with that. that is a ridiculous statement. culture can't be narrowly defined, nor can appropriation. you can say virtually everything is appropriation. there is no such thing as originality in the objective sense. besides, appropriation is a scary word, very negative connotations, but it's not as sinister as all that necessarily. white radio appropriated the jive talk style of black radio, but you could argue that helped bring black culture further into the mainstream and promoted racial equality. it had bad effects, it had good effects, like lots of things do.. it can exist all it wants. but im going to talk sh*t on it. and call it names. which is what im doing. and youre saying i shouldnt? no, i'm saying all your points about culture and realness and blah blah blah have nothing to do with whether their music is sonically pleasing to you or not. there are factors other than your ears affecting your opinion. those other things have their place, but not in your ears. it has nothing to do with keeping it real. i like how since we're then why do you keep talking about how they are fronting and not down and not real, and comparing to who is real, and etc etc? what about the SOUNDS??? just say they use crappy samples and you don't like their voices. the rest is noise when it comes to talking about music. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. name these people whose music is not from a culture. it doesnt exist. dummy, sub-culture that they themselves 'belong' to then, however you go about defining that in the first place. i do not consider myself a part of house sub-culture. at all. and yet i make house. i love house. should i give it up? where do you draw the lines? why do you give so much credit to scenes/culture in the first place? what's so great about them, other than getting the bragging rights to claim you are real and to get credit or whatever? scenes just breed homogeny and boring politics. i'd rather just make music i like and get paid for it. i'm getting too old to care about anything else. credit where credit is due is great of course, but getting credit isn't going to make technics as popular as spank or ayres. because all these issues you are talking about has nothing to do with their popularity. they make relatively mainstream, radio-friendly party music. nobody cares about the rest. except music geeks like us, the .01% all i can go by is what i hear and read. if they dont want to be judged on that, they should do a better job of PR. i think they'd like to be judged on their music and i think the other 99.99% of the people who hear them do that. why then does every single review, writeup, etc mention baltimore and club music? they dont even live there anymore. they try to cash in on that credential. because they are highly influenced by bmore club stuff? i'd probably mention detroit in any interview, but i've never lived there. i'd also mention music that is 80 years old that i wasn't even alive to experience. i think you are miffed because they are coming across as the pioneers of bmore club, and that's unfortunate, but that's how it goes. they are treated that way by the media because they are the first to make waves (similar things have happened with dance music, like how portishead or chem bros became the pioneers of trip hop in the mainstream's eyes). they give credit to the bmore scene in every interview, like you say. so...? what more can they do? and what is there to cash in on? there was no bmore club craze until them, and it's still not really about bmore. they are bringing attention to the music. they shouldn't? btw, tom and i just like to argue. we friends. i think he says dumb stuff sometimes but so do i (see above and previous 1000 messages on 313). but i 3 tom
Re: (313) Justice
Plan B is a bit of fun. Roots Manuva is great live. The new Dizzee is really fresh musically. Kinda Bomb Squad type beats on the single Sirens. I like Akala's track Shakespeare - the one that sampled Tomcraft. Clever concept and works well! There is a French MC who worked in Detroit lately, I forget his name! He's fresh and soulful. On 28/06/2007, at 1:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. I'm looking forward to checking out some of these recommendations tho. Kind regards, Gary Entertainment UK Ltd Auriol Drive | Greenford Park | Greenford | UB6 0DS x: 2946 | t: +44 (0)20 8833 2946 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: list 313 313@hyperreal.org il.com cc: Subject: Re: (313) Justice 27/06/07 15:36 On the british tip, any MC that tries to sound American is as weak as almost all Americans who try to make Drum and Bass. People I have respect for -- like the Streets, and Goldie Lookin Chains -- aren't even trying to make real hip hop: they're doing something uniquely British. They don't hit me in the heart like the best American hip hop, but they sound like themselves, not like they spent their youths in a pub listening to Biggie on their walkman, fantasizing about walking the mean streets of NYC. I'm very picky about hip hop as well. When it's on, it's Shakespeare-caliber word play backed by beats that make you want to cry. When it's not, well, it's like 99% of all musical culture -- crap. On 6/26/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something.
Re: (313) Justice
This wins for the longest thread in recent memory. Thanks to all (and Tom) for not getting super-salty and personal for a change. My 2 Cents: Tittsworth just played here. I haven't even heard his records, but in my opinion he ripped sh*t up. He throws everything but the kitchen sink into his sets -- all sorts of classic rock, Nirvana, Michael Jackson, Booty House, and what I presume is the BMore club stuff Tom is so exercised about. I had fun, and the rest of the people in the spot had fun. And Iowa City has a huge population of ironic hipsters, but they don't come out for our dance events. We get people who want to dance and get crazy -- black, white, old, young, gutter punks and club kids. I don't claim any authenticity for the scene, but a dance crowd here has almost no overlap with the hipster set. The hipster set doesn't even LIKE The Picador -- the club Tittsworth played at -- because it's cinderblock cave with filthy floors and lousy ventilation. I honestly don't see how he was being ironic -- even when he dropped Journey. Like Jason Forrest, it's funny when they quote cheesy pop music, but they do it because they love it, not because they're all PoMo. Whatever the hell Tittsworth does it seemed genuinely his own. Tom or anyone can diss him for cultural appropriation, but I don't think it's the whole story. Contrast what he does with, for example, DJ Funk. I know Chuck a little -- he's played here several times, and I spent one very weird night driving him around town. Nice enough guy. Funk is very much an authentic proponent of Booty House. But his show consists of mixing between two CDRs in Pioneer CD decks, and him jumping around and clowning. People seem to like it, but as far as a musical performance goes, give me Tittsworth any day. Either music is real, and it works or it isn't and it doesn't. Talking about cultural imperialism is all well and good but there is _NO_ african-american music that has ever stayed purely black. Aretha's records were produced by a Turk and had white musicians all over them. Elvis isn't a particularly good example either -- Public Enemy's famous diss notwithstanding. Especially when you've got Pat Boone covering Little Richard to beat up on. And we have to consider the audience -- NO African American music has become a popular phenomenon without a white audience. And once it has a white audience you hear muttering from some black folks about artists 'tomming' for that audience. Or in Spike Lee's case with Bamboozled, fairly shouting from the rooftops. Curiously, you mostly hear complaints about cultural appropriation from white people. They want their black music like they want their gourmet chocolate -- pure and black. I'm not calling Tom out about it either -- love him or hate him, agree or disagree, Tom's passion for the music is real. But I really wonder how valid it is for the dominant culture to demand 'authenticity' in the music produced by the minority culture.
Re: (313) Justice
speaking of dj funk: in an interview (for those who understand german: http://www.de-bug.de/texte/4588.html, quite funny read...) he says that he's going to release stuff on ed banger. as far as i know there's only a remix for justice's waters of nazareth so far. oh, back on topic. if you wanna see him and the ed banger posse clowning check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLxDZeqiw0 (even if don't dig the music, you have to give respect for the raw energy in that room, hilarious) c* Contrast what he does with, for example, DJ Funk. I know Chuck a little -- he's played here several times, and I spent one very weird night driving him around town. Nice enough guy. Funk is very much an authentic proponent of Booty House. But his show consists of mixing between two CDRs in Pioneer CD decks, and him jumping around and clowning. People seem to like it, but as far as a musical performance goes, give me Tittsworth any day.
Re: (313) Justice
I'm so shocked and disappointed that a serious, real artist such as DJ Funk (from a genuine place like Chicago) would pander to working with such transparent and vapid scenesters as Justice (from Paris no less... what the hell do they know about culture anyway?) - Original Message From: Carlos de Brito [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 6:55:45 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice speaking of dj funk: in an interview (for those who understand german: http://www.de-bug.de/texte/4588.html, quite funny read...) he says that he's going to release stuff on ed banger. as far as i know there's only a remix for justice's waters of nazareth so far. oh, back on topic. if you wanna see him and the ed banger posse clowning check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLxDZeqiw0 (even if don't dig the music, you have to give respect for the raw energy in that room, hilarious) c* Contrast what he does with, for example, DJ Funk. I know Chuck a little -- he's played here several times, and I spent one very weird night driving him around town. Nice enough guy. Funk is very much an authentic proponent of Booty House. But his show consists of mixing between two CDRs in Pioneer CD decks, and him jumping around and clowning. People seem to like it, but as far as a musical performance goes, give me Tittsworth any day. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm so shocked and disappointed that a serious, real artist such as DJ Funk (from a genuine place like Chicago) would pander to working with such transparent and vapid scenesters as Justice (from Paris no less... what the hell do they know about culture anyway?) their money spends as well as anyone else's. and its good that someone with some actual place to make money from such music is getting it instead of the other jokers they have on there. tom
Re: (313) Justice
well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:19:29 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm so shocked and disappointed that a serious, real artist such as DJ Funk (from a genuine place like Chicago) would pander to working with such transparent and vapid scenesters as Justice (from Paris no less... what the hell do they know about culture anyway?) their money spends as well as anyone else's. and its good that someone with some actual place to make money from such music is getting it instead of the other jokers they have on there. tom Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... my whole problem is that these guys that i dont like are taking money, exposure, popularity, and credit from the people who really deserve it. which is part of the reason im so angry about it. if the deserving people get hooked up with all of that, someone might actually be doing something right. but one remix isnt enough! tom
Re: (313) Justice
Big tings gwidarn! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tjvCmdp6OKQ Incidentally, Plan B's just down the high street. On 28 Jun 2007, at 10:14, Cyclone Wehner wrote: Plan B is a bit of fun. Roots Manuva is great live. The new Dizzee is really fresh musically. Kinda Bomb Squad type beats on the single Sirens. I like Akala's track Shakespeare - the one that sampled Tomcraft. Clever concept and works well! There is a French MC who worked in Detroit lately, I forget his name! He's fresh and soulful. On 28/06/2007, at 1:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. I'm looking forward to checking out some of these recommendations tho. Kind regards, Gary Entertainment UK Ltd Auriol Drive | Greenford Park | Greenford | UB6 0DS x: 2946 | t: +44 (0)20 8833 2946 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: list 313 313@hyperreal.org il.com cc: Subject: Re: (313) Justice 27/06/07 15:36 On the british tip, any MC that tries to sound American is as weak as almost all Americans who try to make Drum and Bass. People I have respect for -- like the Streets, and Goldie Lookin Chains -- aren't even trying to make real hip hop: they're doing something uniquely British. They don't hit me in the heart like the best American hip hop, but they sound like themselves, not like they spent their youths in a pub listening to Biggie on their walkman, fantasizing about walking the mean streets of NYC. I'm very picky about hip hop as well. When it's on, it's Shakespeare-caliber word play backed by beats that make you want to cry. When it's not, well, it's like 99% of all musical culture -- crap. On 6/26/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something.
Re: (313) Justice finale??
diana potts wrote: someone wake me up when they get out the kiddie pool and mud. or might I suggest just chasing eachother in a circle for similar results. Personally, I'm waiting for the J.T./Kooky Scientist/Tomm WWF steel-cage mud wrestling deathmatch. :D - Greg P.S. As for all the Justice/Spank Rock/etc. discussion - I thought this was the (313) Detroit Techno list, not the Whatever Music The (313) Listmembers Feel Like Discussing At The Moment list?!?
Re: (313) Justice finale??
On Jun 28, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Greg Earle wrote: P.S. As for all the Justice/Spank Rock/etc. discussion - I thought this was the (313) Detroit Techno list, not the Whatever Music The (313) Listmembers Feel Like Discussing At The Moment list?!? OK, nobody talk about Delsin anymore! -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) Justice finale??
Personally, I'm waiting for the J.T./Kooky Scientist/Tomm WWF steel-cage mud wrestling deathmatch. Count me in for a block of season tickets. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: (313) Justice
I hear you about that problem, and again, this is part and parcel to the appropriation issue. but - again, personal anecdote here - I've purchased a lot of baltimore club 12s at this point, but a few years back I'd never heard of it. What exposed me to it? (I live on the west coast, b.t.w.) the Hollertronix mix: Never Scared. Before I had garnered an appreciation for Detroit techno... what stuff did I come across that piqued my interested in electronic music in general? Honestly I'm embarrassed to name the acts but, all cross-over stuff where they were appropriating. Same with the route I took in my long winding education of hip hop culture. Believe me, my experience in appreciating African-American music culture as a whole has given me DEEP pause in considering the Elvis effect. Is that white guilt? I'm loath to think so. I'm just grateful - whatever the path taken - that I've been exposed to some phenomenal music and culture that I love. SO: when I we have a modern rock station out here that will play hip hop every once and a while, but when they do... IT'S THE BEASTIE BOYS! yeah, I wince a little... its kinda messed up no doubt. but then, who knows, maybe there were be some people that get exposed to it, and then that's just a starting point for a whole world that's opened up. I wonder: could I be the only fan of Derrick May that at one point enjoyed listening to Exit Planet Dust? - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:29:05 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... my whole problem is that these guys that i dont like are taking money, exposure, popularity, and credit from the people who really deserve it. which is part of the reason im so angry about it. if the deserving people get hooked up with all of that, someone might actually be doing something right. but one remix isnt enough! tom Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear you about that problem, and again, this is part and parcel to the appropriation issue. but - again, personal anecdote here - I've purchased a lot of baltimore club 12s at this point, but a few years back I'd never heard of it. What exposed me to it? (I live on the west coast, b.t.w.) the Hollertronix mix: Never Scared. Before I had garnered an appreciation for Detroit techno... what stuff did I come across that piqued my interested in electronic music in general? Honestly I'm embarrassed to name the acts but, all cross-over stuff where they were appropriating. Same with the route I took in my long winding education of hip hop culture. Believe me, my experience in appreciating African-American music culture as a whole has given me DEEP pause in considering the Elvis effect. Is that white guilt? I'm loath to think so. I'm just grateful - whatever the path taken - that I've been exposed to some phenomenal music and culture that I love. SO: when I we have a modern rock station out here that will play hip hop every once and a while, but when they do... IT'S THE BEASTIE BOYS! yeah, I wince a little... its kinda messed up no doubt. but then, who knows, maybe there were be some people that get exposed to it, and then that's just a starting point for a whole world that's opened up. I wonder: could I be the only fan of Derrick May that at one point enjoyed listening to Exit Planet Dust? sure, people can get involved with good music from entry level stuff, but how many more just stay into nonsense? if 10,000 people in the US were chem bros fans, how many of them went on to become techno or house fans vs how many went on to become trance and progressive fans? i think its always best to give people the good stuff and let them decide from that. people are inherently lazy, and especially when its hard to find good info about something as underground as club music or the like out there, it makes it increasingly unlikely that people will go from liking the corny stuff to supporting the good stuff. tom
Re: (313) Justice
i used to play the LOA/PragaKhan/RaveTilDawn stuff in like 93 because i didn't know any better (i was 13). then my uncle introduced me to Front242 which led to the Waxtrax Artificial Intelligence Comps and (most importantly) the Trance Atlantic comp. it was all over after that. I never played any of the belgian rave stuff again (except when i'm feeling nostalgic). I wonder: could I be the only fan of Derrick May that at one point enjoyed listening to Exit Planet Dust? - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:29:05 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... my whole problem is that these guys that i dont like are taking money, exposure, popularity, and credit from the people who really deserve it. which is part of the reason im so angry about it. if the deserving people get hooked up with all of that, someone might actually be doing something right. but one remix isnt enough! tom Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: (313) Justice
fine but my point was in terms of money - I would have not sent what I did into the hands of DJ Technics, Rod Lee, etc if it wasn't for the Hollertronix mix that put their stuff in my ears. those guys got paid more money then that might have if it weren't for the youngsters propagation of it. but then, maybe that mix made hollertronix more dough than the DJs saw right? well that's a classic debate about djs vs producers right there anyway. - Original Message sure, people can get involved with good music from entry level stuff, but how many more just stay into nonsense? if 10,000 people in the US were chem bros fans, how many of them went on to become techno or house fans vs how many went on to become trance and progressive fans? i think its always best to give people the good stuff and let them decide from that. people are inherently lazy, and especially when its hard to find good info about something as underground as club music or the like out there, it makes it increasingly unlikely that people will go from liking the corny stuff to supporting the good stuff. Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
Re: (313) Justice finale??
Personally, I'm waiting for the J.T./Kooky Scientist/Tomm WWF steel-cage mud wrestling deathmatch. tom and i are friends, there's no animosity...we just like to argue about social/cultural bs, we're probably on the same page anyways. P.S. As for all the Justice/Spank Rock/etc. discussion - I thought this was the (313) Detroit Techno list, not the Whatever Music The (313) Listmembers Feel Like Discussing At The Moment list?!? i think all the issues we've been talking about relate equally as much to detroit techno, no? just replace spank rock with ritchie hawtin, technics with mike banks, and bmore with detroit, et voila
Re: (313) Justice finale??
i think all the issues we've been talking about relate equally as much to detroit techno, no? just replace spank rock with ritchie hawtin, technics with mike banks, and bmore with detroit, et voila thanx for that. in my last post I was tempted to mention Disco D and DJ Assault to that effect as well. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wait, we're talking about labels now? well, mo'wax were just putting out music they liked. i know those guys, i worked with them too remember. but thats the thing, they approached it like fans of the music, not someone trying to get paid by putting out least common denominator music. it should also be noted dj assault was the hype then, coming off coverage in rolling stone and spin etc, and was an obvious choice with little competition. the choice *should* be obvious! just like spank rock was an obvious choice for ninja tune because they were selling out shows everywhere and had some hype, and because ninja tune dug their music. maybe technics should have sent them a demo. obviously i dont know for sure, but my guess is that assault and magic mike werent shipping demos around to mo wax. i mean, club music is pretty obscure, but if i could find out about it in pittsburgh years and years ago, im sure it wouldnt have been that hard for anyone else on any other label to do so as well. but again, there isnt money in that kind of decision. i sure wish they'd put out technics too, but it's not spank's fault they don't, and technics has got his stuff worked out anyways. so why all the drama and bitterness and why are you directing it where you are? everyone is guilty here, the publicists who write this nonsense, the label and artists for pushing this baltimore connection, the artists themselves for allowing the label to market them as they have, and even moreso to the people that i think should know better, who have seen this kind of thing happen before and should be able to tell when its happening again. what is this big conspiracy you think has occurred, what are the motives for pushing spank and not technics? the motive is selling watered down product to white hipsters because the real image is not something that is easy to sell. there's loads of bad music out there, is it the crappy artists' fault when it miraculously becomes popular, or their label's for picking it up and torturing the world with it and embarking on a marketing campaign etc etc? everyone is to blame. everyone's motivation is to make easy $$$, not to push art. and they do it at any expense to real art and culture. and i find it deplorable. detroit had it's own sub-culture yes, they shouldn't have come along and appropriated chicago's. and chicago shouldn't have appropriated new york's. music institute was just a wannabe music box was just a wannabe paradise garage but these were all part of a larger common culture, the underground black and/or gay culture in inner cities in the US. its the same way that club and ghetto tech and booty house and miami bass are all part of the same family despite having slightly different local DNA. that is a ridiculous statement. culture can't be narrowly defined, nor can appropriation. you can say virtually everything is appropriation. there is no such thing as originality in the objective sense. no, people live a culture and their own personalities and experiences allow them to help it move beyond its previous borders. its all a very continuous flow. in the case of appropriation, the flow is discontinuous. besides, appropriation is a scary word, very negative connotations, but it's not as sinister as all that necessarily. white radio appropriated the jive talk style of black radio, but you could argue that helped bring black culture further into the mainstream and promoted racial equality. it had bad effects, it had good effects, like lots of things do.. but at this point, we've seen this all before. why bother going through this roundabout process that serves no one but the established music industry when its so easy to get straight to the real stuff? do white people really need a buffer zone to be able to appreciate black culture? no, i'm saying all your points about culture and realness and blah blah blah have nothing to do with whether their music is sonically pleasing to you or not. there are factors other than your ears affecting your opinion. those other things have their place, but not in your ears. but my previous knowledge of music makes me hear new stuff like this and say this is not really new, this is not interesting. why is this being hyped up? and then i start to answer those questions and i arrive at answers. then why do you keep talking about how they are fronting and not down and not real, and comparing to who is real, and etc etc? what about the SOUNDS??? just say they use crappy samples and you don't like their voices. the rest is noise when it comes to talking about music. if music was listened to and sold in complete isolation, that would be the easy way to critique something. unfortunately, theres a whole lifestyle industry out there that is part of the music that also needs (pretty much constant) critiquing. and in this day and age, that industry and the music and marketing all go
Re: (313) Justice finale??
On 6/28/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i think all the issues we've been talking about relate equally as much to detroit techno, no? just replace spank rock with ritchie hawtin, technics with mike banks, and bmore with detroit, et voila it is true, this is a constant problem in all kinds of music scenes built around black american music! tom
Re: (313) Justice
and it's still not really about bmore. they are bringing attention to the music. they shouldn't? not in this disingenuous manner. Thomas, I really really hear you on a lot of what you are saying in your email, and yes, there's a twisted element at the core of American pop culture where we've seen it over and over and over again. but I guess I just don't get what *would* be a genuine way of calling attention to the music? (in contrast to this disingenuous manner). Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/
Re: (313) Justice
but I guess I just don't get what *would* be a genuine way of calling attention to the music? (in contrast to this disingenuous manner). well put..i agree with most of what tom is saying at some level, but it's impossibly idealistic and entirely speculative. idealism is vital tho. but yeah. who knows exactly what would happen if somehow someway the crazy real club stuff got mainstream coverage, but i highly doubt it would take off like spank rock, there's no foundation for it too. the foundation ahs to be built sometime somewhere though if something like that is ever going to happen. i remember how excited i was to see articles in rolling stone and spin some years back about the belleville 3, thinking yes, the rest of the world is finally going to wake up to this brilliant music and real dance music will become a viable part of the music industry!bzzt! but then again, it depends on your pov. playlists from ibiza have gotten better, and i'm certainly happier to see kompakt inhabiting the same space moonshine and company used to. it could be better, maybe, but it could also be much worse. something is usually better than nothing, and that goes for spank's mis-credit as bmore club as well
Re: (313) Justice
Yeah I dig that. I wish I didn't have a migraine guys, I'd deal with this thread more graciously then! ;) I think it's the thought of MIMS that did it... On 27/06/2007, at 8:52 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also on the dope instrumental hiphop tip, Dr. Who Dat? (aka janiero jarel) Jniero's music is solid - Three Piece Puzzle has been on heavy rotation here for the last two years Lex records is a fine label too MEK
Re: (313) Justice
i certainly wouldnt call spank rock boring nah, but id call them pretty terrible. theyre right up there with tittworth and ayres, diplo, etc in that why are these guys out there representing this kind of music?!?!?! category for me. representing what? bmore? why shouldn't they? do you not like clubby stuff or something? but you don't seem like much of an electro fan, and this stuff definitely leans electro...spank rock is produced well, it's different, and it's hot, so i think they deserve some credit there regardless of whether it's your thing or not. i actually haven't given it many good listens and i deffo don't like all of it. but 95% of too short's stuff sucks, and i still love him for the other 5% no love for the pack (wolfpack)? the vans song? uno? super slow minimal 808 drenched in reverb, little portamento lead riffs, comeON! this is all strictly party stuff tho. i don't really listen to it like some deep stuff and i wouldn't listen to it all the time or anything. i like jneiro and i like a lot of that sort of stuff that goes thru rush hour, but it's not really for me. it's a bit too lowkey and jazzy and hip for me, most of the time...i am mostly after more electronic stuff, or well, hot stuff.. and jjak hogan are my friends and unknown as yet, but are opening for beastie boys next tour and have an album coming on radioslave's rekids, of all places. i really liked their stuff on their myspace page, ill definitely be checking out their whole album. that's funny you like them but not spank rock. not that they sound that similar, but they are in the same area. same emphasis on electronics and crazy beats...but with much better mc's..and music much more on the deep side...best live hiphop i've ever seen. if you like jjak check the senate committee. it's jjak plus their friend note. tip! http://www.myspace.com/jjakhogan check bass invadurrz (electro/instrumental sideproject) too @cyclone, if you're reading, i didn't mean to insinuate you don't know anything about hiphop or anything like that, i just took umbrage with your examples of american hiphop and how dismissive you were...hope you kicked the migraine, och ps kamal said it right!
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/26/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: representing what? bmore? why shouldn't they? because someone else who really does it should, rod lee, technics, etc. ive been down with the club music for a long minute now, i never heard of them until suddenly it started getting hyped up by other white deejays. but you don't seem like much of an electro fan, and this stuff definitely leans electro... i like electro, just not very much of it, and really not very much modern stuff. no love for the pack (wolfpack)? the vans song? uno? super slow minimal 808 drenched in reverb, little portamento lead riffs, comeON! the vans track is ill, what else have they done? i like jneiro and i like a lot of that sort of stuff that goes thru rush hour, but it's not really for me. it's a bit too lowkey and jazzy and hip for me, most of the time...i am mostly after more electronic stuff, or well, hot stuff.. im usually chilling more than i am anything else, so the jazzy stuff is usually my favorite. in general, ive been digging for jazz a whole lot more recently, and listening to jazz influenced hiphop a TON, and sample based hiphop in general a whole lot. Large Professor deejayed in pittsburgh the other night, he was awesome, ive been feeling that vibe of stuff alot more than most dance music stuff recently. that's funny you like them but not spank rock. not that they sound that similar, but they are in the same area. same emphasis on electronics and crazy beats...but with much better mc's..and music much more on the deep side...best live hiphop i've ever seen. if you like jjak check the senate committee. it's jjak plus their friend note. tip! http://www.myspace.com/jjakhogan check bass invadurrz (electro/instrumental sideproject) too maybe its what you mean when you say music much more on the deep side. in general im not about music thats only about partying. i like soul music you can party to, thats what im all about. ill check that side project thing as well. tom
Re: (313) Justice
because someone else who really does it should, rod lee, technics, etc. ive been down with the club music for a long minute now, i never heard of them until suddenly it started getting hyped up by other white deejays. damm why is everybody so defensive today? i don't care how long you've been down with it, i just didn't think it was your style. i have never heard of rod lee, i'm curious...if spank and ayres are biting his style that is unfortunate they are getting all the attention. i get what you mean now. i don't know about the politics, i have just been using my ears. but ayres doesn't pretend to be anything he's not, his bio lays out his history, learning to mix in college dorm rooms and playing in brooklyn dives, and he even gives props to darshan from metro area and jamie hodge (born under a rhyming planet) in his bio... y'know, none of my black friends seem to care that spank rock are 1/2 white...i guess their stuff is kinda stupid/trashy so you need a sense of humor and good taste in bad taste or something like that... the vans track is ill, what else have they done? lots. look for lil uno's and boo ski's solo stuff too...uno by lil uno is like doug e fresh 1986 except from the bay 2007, same instrumentation, massive reverbed 808 beats im usually chilling more than i am anything else, so the jazzy stuff is usually my favorite. in general, ive been digging for jazz a whole lot more recently, and listening to jazz influenced hiphop a TON, and sample based hiphop in general a whole lot. Large Professor deejayed in pittsburgh the other night, he was awesome, ive been feeling that vibe of stuff alot more than most dance music stuff recently. i'm chilling too. i get tired of jazzy sounds in hiphop. i like jazz tho, especially rudy johnson and blackjazz stuff lately. it is just so played out and familiar in hiphop, there's not much imagination in that sound left..with some exceptions...i really wanted to like the new lifesavas but nahhh. it's all good background music i guess, but so is lots of music. maybe i'll come back around to it now that it's summer maybe its what you mean when you say music much more on the deep side. in general im not about music thats only about partying. i like soul music you can party to, thats what im all about. ill check that side project thing as well. mostly that's what i'm about too..i mean very little music really strikes a perfect balance for me, upfront and deep at the same time, it's usually tilted one way or the other. but i like all sorts of music, and hot summertime nights in nc demand party music SOMEtimes.
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/26/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: damm why is everybody so defensive today? i don't care how long you've been down with it, i just didn't think it was your style. i actually love club music, its not something i listen to constantly, but i always bump it in the ride when im in bmore and i like to get down to it from time to time. it reminds me of a cross between UK hardcore and dance mania, combining 2 of my loves. i have never heard of rod lee, i'm curious...if spank and ayres are biting his style that is unfortunate they are getting all the attention. i get what you mean now. i don't know about the politics, i have just been using my ears. i mean, i dont know how much time youve spent in bmore, but one of the great things about it is club music. they rock it on mainstream hiphop stations on friday nights right inbetween new mainstream hiphop tracks. theyll drop craziness like a track that samples the Imperial March from star wars with an amen break under it, really raw and goofy tracked out breakbeat stuff. theyve been doing it for a minute, check out this from 98: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?what=Robid=622234 real dj's buy two. i love that sh*t. check this out: http://www.discogs.com/release/635557 havent heard this mix, but thats the kind of thing that bmore is about. a friend of mine from pgh makes some club trax: http://www.discogs.com/artist/Phinesse but ayres doesn't pretend to be anything he's not, his bio lays out his history, learning to mix in college dorm rooms and playing in brooklyn dives, and he even gives props to darshan from metro area and jamie hodge (born under a rhyming planet) in his bio... he may be a really cool guy and be down with lots of good music, but i feel like he is misrepresenting a local music for ironic means. y'know, none of my black friends seem to care that spank rock are 1/2 white...i guess their stuff is kinda stupid/trashy so you need a sense of humor and good taste in bad taste or something like that... it doesnt matter that theyre white, if they were representing real club music. but theyre taking the most superficial bits about it and turning it into a joke. you know how i feel about this kind of thing. the vans track is ill, what else have they done? lots. look for lil uno's and boo ski's solo stuff too...uno by lil uno is like doug e fresh 1986 except from the bay 2007, same instrumentation, massive reverbed 808 beats sounds nice. i'm chilling too. i get tired of jazzy sounds in hiphop. i like jazz tho, especially rudy johnson and blackjazz stuff lately. ive been buying up Inner City and Prestige stuff recently, but really ive just been buying and playing all kinds of jazz stuff recently. Azimuth's first brazil only album has been on constant repeat for me recently, what a brilliant record. it is just so played out and familiar in hiphop, there's not much imagination in that sound left..with some exceptions...i really wanted to like the new lifesavas but nahhh. it's all good background music i guess, but so is lots of music. maybe i'll come back around to it now that it's summer lifesavas are kinda eh for me. its disappointing, i can remember when so much of the solesides/quannum stuff was killer, now theyve largely fallen off. really, ive just been going back to all kinds of older hiphop stuff in the jazzy and laid back soul vein, ive been rocking slum village fantastic vol 1, camp lo uptown saturday night, pharcyde labcabincalifornia, tribe midnight marauders low end theory, nas illmatic, etc. granted there isnt alot of newer stuff in that vein that is all that great, but the old stuff is so timelessly brilliant that im not that worried about it. it is very good for the summertime as well! its nice to be in a hiphop mood again, its been a while for me. mostly that's what i'm about too..i mean very little music really strikes a perfect balance for me, upfront and deep at the same time, it's usually tilted one way or the other. but i like all sorts of music, and hot summertime nights in nc demand party music SOMEtimes. cant disagree with that. tom
Re: (313) Justice
oh yeah, lil uno from the pack is not lil uno the latino mc. the pack are too short proteges btw, one of them is his nephew. i mostly just like the slow minimal 808 ones, not the faster electro-rap jams, they're ok but nothing unique
Re: (313) Justice
down to it from time to time. it reminds me of a cross between UK hardcore and dance mania, combining 2 of my loves. hehe yep, that's totally what it is, with sloppier sampling i mean, i dont know how much time youve spent in bmore, but one of the great things about it is club music. they rock it on mainstream hiphop haha, not much, but i've been knowing about it, i remember when it first popped up and former list member legend teep was all about it. there used to be a label called knuckleheadz (sp?) that i was really into...i sold all of it tho.. down here we call it bmore club. the mid-atlantic is a cool place musically, i mean it's crazy go-go music is still big in dc and most of the rest of the country has never heard of it, much less actually heard the music...and it's all over fm radio there. March from star wars with an amen break under it, really raw and goofy tracked out breakbeat stuff. theyve been doing it for a minute, check haha yeah, it probably sounds even worse than the description, there's a lot of really really bad ultra-tracky stuffbut some dope onesi got one a few months ago that is a mashup of percolator and fela kuti, pretty hot he may be a really cool guy and be down with lots of good music, but i feel like he is misrepresenting a local music for ironic means. i dunno man, sometimes it's unfair to blame the artist. blame the hypemachine(s). everything i've read about him is very humble and straightforward -- and doesn't even mention bmore. it's all nyc...i dunno. other bmore stuff can blow up in it's own right, i don't see that ayres and spank are holding anybody down, unless they really did steal someone else's sound straight up...but i don't hear that, at least not with what i've heard... i mean technics and a bunch of other bmore guys are all up in the soundtrack to The Wire and i thought they had some major record deals stemming from that? they are definitely representing bmore in that show at least, which is a pretty big deal... it doesnt matter that theyre white, if they were representing real club music. but theyre taking the most superficial bits about it and turning it into a joke. you know how i feel about this kind of thing. i don't hear it that way. their music is a joke, but that doesn't mean the music they are influenced by is, or that their music isn't still good. see pubahs lots. look for lil uno's and boo ski's solo stuff too...uno by lil uno is like doug e fresh 1986 except from the bay 2007, same instrumentation, massive reverbed 808 beats sounds nice. you probably will hear some bad stuff and get turned off...they're all like 17-19 years old, max. and they are hot on mtv etc. still, i approve. if you don't like too short, you probably won't like this either tho (lyrics are cleaner, but the rest is too short evolved...) ive been buying up Inner City and Prestige stuff recently, but really ive just been buying and playing all kinds of jazz stuff recently. Azimuth's first brazil only album has been on constant repeat for me recently, what a brilliant record. i've been listening to sabu martinez a bunch...pretty great. and oh, old jazzy hiphop, that's a totally different story. even new stuff done in the old style, it just sounds stale or something (like lifesavas). but then there's madlib (sometimes) and yeah some slum village black milk etc etc...but i probably couldn't list more than 10 current producers of jazzy stuff that i really like. i am after more esoteric electronic sounding stuff fosho..
Re: (313) Justice
also on the dope instrumental hiphop tip, Dr. Who Dat? (aka janiero jarel) Jniero's music is solid - Three Piece Puzzle has been on heavy rotation here for the last two years Lex records is a fine label too MEK yeah, jneiro jarel does it for me. the instrumental album was 'beat journey', was just listening to that again last nite, great stuff. he's got another album coming out in spring i think, and another as part of 'shape of broad minds' called 'craft of the lost art'. looking forward to those. nath
Re: (313) Justice
- Original Message - From: J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Thomas D. Cox,Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:55 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice i mean, i dont know how much time youve spent in bmore, but one of the great things about it is club music. they rock it on mainstream hiphop haha, not much, but i've been knowing about it, i remember when it first popped up and former list member legend teep was all about it. there used to be a label called knuckleheadz (sp?) that i was really into...i sold all of it tho.. down here we call it bmore club. Man, I really never got into that stuff when I lived there. It just sounded like garbage re-hashed hardcore with incredibly tired beat samples to me. It still eludes me. I also think it's hillarious that Tittsworth is making that stuff now. When I lived there he was a drum n' bass DJ. I never would have expected that move, especially given the way that DC always lapped up drum n' bass. the mid-atlantic is a cool place musically, i mean it's crazy go-go music is still big in dc and most of the rest of the country has never heard of it, much less actually heard the music...and it's all over fm radio there. Yeah, go-go is good. They used to have a good prime time Sunday night show on FM radio. You get bucket drummers all over the streets in D.C. as well, which is kind of an extension (or maybe the origination) of the go go rhythm. Phred's a bit more of an authority on this stuf than I am. I guess what I was gonna say is that I couldn't see it as farther away from the Bmore club sound, but your point is taken that it's interesting that these two isolated musics have popped up in such close proximity to each other. Tristan === [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phonopsia.co.uk
Re: (313) Justice
On the british tip, any MC that tries to sound American is as weak as almost all Americans who try to make Drum and Bass. People I have respect for -- like the Streets, and Goldie Lookin Chains -- aren't even trying to make real hip hop: they're doing something uniquely British. They don't hit me in the heart like the best American hip hop, but they sound like themselves, not like they spent their youths in a pub listening to Biggie on their walkman, fantasizing about walking the mean streets of NYC. I'm very picky about hip hop as well. When it's on, it's Shakespeare-caliber word play backed by beats that make you want to cry. When it's not, well, it's like 99% of all musical culture -- crap. On 6/26/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something.
Re: (313) Justice
jazzy and hip funny how hip gets associated with jazzy but not with the party stuff - which has a hip factor that's different but all its own just sayin' MEK
Re: (313) Justice
What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. I'm looking forward to checking out some of these recommendations tho. Kind regards, Gary Entertainment UK Ltd Auriol Drive | Greenford Park | Greenford | UB6 0DS x: 2946 | t: +44 (0)20 8833 2946 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: list 313 313@hyperreal.org il.com cc: Subject: Re: (313) Justice 27/06/07 15:36 On the british tip, any MC that tries to sound American is as weak as almost all Americans who try to make Drum and Bass. People I have respect for -- like the Streets, and Goldie Lookin Chains -- aren't even trying to make real hip hop: they're doing something uniquely British. They don't hit me in the heart like the best American hip hop, but they sound like themselves, not like they spent their youths in a pub listening to Biggie on their walkman, fantasizing about walking the mean streets of NYC. I'm very picky about hip hop as well. When it's on, it's Shakespeare-caliber word play backed by beats that make you want to cry. When it's not, well, it's like 99% of all musical culture -- crap. On 6/26/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something.
Re: (313) Justice
I like him very much but I'm sure in the UK he's considered fairly mainstream. I enjoy his low slung delivery. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/27/2007 10:11:15 AM: What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. I'm looking forward to checking out some of these recommendations tho. Kind regards, Gary Entertainment UK Ltd Auriol Drive | Greenford Park | Greenford | UB6 0DS x: 2946 | t: +44 (0)20 8833 2946 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: list 313 313@hyperreal.org il.com cc: Subject: Re: (313) Justice 27/06/07 15:36 On the british tip, any MC that tries to sound American is as weak as almost all Americans who try to make Drum and Bass. People I have respect for -- like the Streets, and Goldie Lookin Chains -- aren't even trying to make real hip hop: they're doing something uniquely British. They don't hit me in the heart like the best American hip hop, but they sound like themselves, not like they spent their youths in a pub listening to Biggie on their walkman, fantasizing about walking the mean streets of NYC. I'm very picky about hip hop as well. When it's on, it's Shakespeare-caliber word play backed by beats that make you want to cry. When it's not, well, it's like 99% of all musical culture -- crap. On 6/26/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something.
Re: (313) Justice
Man, I really never got into that stuff when I lived there. It just sounded like garbage re-hashed hardcore with incredibly tired beat samples to me. It there's a lot of that. but it's not all that. there's some gems. everybody who's really cool is playing kuduru now tho :P
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man, I really never got into that stuff when I lived there. It just sounded like garbage re-hashed hardcore with incredibly tired beat samples to me. It still eludes me. its just another variation on the ghetto tech/booty house/miami bass family of black dance music. though obviously, this sound goes way back in baltimore, check frank ski's whores in this house and of course doo doo brown by 2 hyped brothers and a dog. I also think it's hillarious that Tittsworth is making that stuff now. When I lived there he was a drum n' bass DJ. I never would have expected that move, especially given the way that DC always lapped up drum n' bass. there's alot more money and fame right now in selling local black musics to white hipsters than there is in drum and bass. Yeah, go-go is good. They used to have a good prime time Sunday night show on FM radio. You get bucket drummers all over the streets in D.C. as well, which is kind of an extension (or maybe the origination) of the go go rhythm. Phred's a bit more of an authority on this stuf than I am. i love me some gogo too, ive been breaking out lots of old stuff on DETT and the like and mixing it up with disco and funk stuff. I guess what I was gonna say is that I couldn't see it as farther away from the Bmore club sound, but your point is taken that it's interesting that these two isolated musics have popped up in such close proximity to each other. but really, almost every US city with a large black population has some variety of local dance music that has sprung up from it. miami has bass music, new orleans has bounce (check manny fresh's stuff from way back in the 80s, long before cash money blew up), atlanta had lots of bootybass stuff and now crunk, memphis had stuff like eightball and mjg, houston had a similar bassy hiphop sound, detroit has techno electro and ghetto, chicago has house and booty, the list goes on and on. eve going back farther, you have motown in detroit and philly international in philadelphia amongst others. some of these sounds blow up and become a more universal cultural touchstone, others never break out past their backyard. usually though, the people who make it are the ones who break it out. now suddenly, we're seeing hipster appropriations become the standard while no one else is getting the props they deserve. its weak. tom
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On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i dunno man, sometimes it's unfair to blame the artist. blame the hypemachine(s). everything i've read about him is very humble and straightforward -- and doesn't even mention bmore. it's all nyc...i dunno. other bmore stuff can blow up in it's own right, i don't see that ayres and spank are holding anybody down, unless they really did steal someone else's sound straight up...but i don't hear that, at least not with what i've heard... its not about straight up stealing a sound, its about getting popular with a watered down version of something that isnt even his to water down. theyre the elvises of club music. i mean technics and a bunch of other bmore guys are all up in the soundtrack to The Wire and i thought they had some major record deals stemming from that? they are definitely representing bmore in that show at least, which is a pretty big deal... yeah, they also reference it in dialogue as well, which is really dope. the guys who make that show go out of their way to make sure that they represent baltimore properly. i don't hear it that way. their music is a joke, but that doesn't mean the music they are influenced by is, or that their music isn't still good. see pubahs at least pubah's was still getting play from real ghetto and electro deejays in detroit. ive never seen or heard of one of the real bmore deejays dropping spankrock tunes. you probably will hear some bad stuff and get turned off...they're all like 17-19 years old, max. and they are hot on mtv etc. still, i approve. if you don't like too short, you probably won't like this either tho (lyrics are cleaner, but the rest is too short evolved...) im down with some shorty the pimp. tom
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On 6/27/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. i agree, and i like him alot. he has that uk/carribean sound to his voice, and his flow is good and not just a US knock off. as kent mentioned, the streets are also pretty great (well, at least the first album was, i havent liked anything since) without sounding at all like something that would come from the US. i never thought much of any of the grime emcees. tom
Re: (313) Justice
On Jun 27, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: usually though, the people who make it are the ones who break it out. now suddenly, we're seeing hipster appropriations become the standard while no one else is getting the props they deserve. its weak. Not a recent thing unfortunately. See the origin of the cover song. -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(313) Justice
Space Ape is a really good MC live... m
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean, on this board is anyone here still got beef with people in the UK becoming fans of hey-day late 80's techno from Detroit and Chicago... and (fake gasp) making their own takes on those styles? i have no beef, but as with UK emcees and the like, i find it pretty telling that my collection is 95% US records. nothing is better than the real thing. tom
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Hi - lurker here - isn't this simply called appropriation? And I don't even mean that in any specific racial context, since I think you could frame it in terms of generation or even just in terms of scenes. but anyway, yeah, Spankrock and supposed white scenesters are doing their thing and showing influence from a sound that they're genuinely fans of. And I think that is the correct characterization of it too: They are definitely not ripping it off or watering it down - but taking (and what they're taking is basically summed up by the ubiquitous break beat and sample-looping style) and adding to it a lot of different other elements from electro, freestyle, miami bass, drum and bass (esp. w/ tittsworth), and even UK garage styles. I mean, on this board is anyone here still got beef with people in the UK becoming fans of hey-day late 80's techno from Detroit and Chicago... and (fake gasp) making their own takes on those styles? I think its a pollination from the winds effect ... a natural force (or component or effect) of culture... what's the problem?! - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:56:59 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i dunno man, sometimes it's unfair to blame the artist. blame the hypemachine(s). everything i've read about him is very humble and straightforward -- and doesn't even mention bmore. it's all nyc...i dunno. other bmore stuff can blow up in it's own right, i don't see that ayres and spank are holding anybody down, unless they really did steal someone else's sound straight up...but i don't hear that, at least not with what i've heard... its not about straight up stealing a sound, its about getting popular with a watered down version of something that isnt even his to water down. theyre the elvises of club music. i mean technics and a bunch of other bmore guys are all up in the soundtrack to The Wire and i thought they had some major record deals stemming from that? they are definitely representing bmore in that show at least, which is a pretty big deal... yeah, they also reference it in dialogue as well, which is really dope. the guys who make that show go out of their way to make sure that they represent baltimore properly. i don't hear it that way. their music is a joke, but that doesn't mean the music they are influenced by is, or that their music isn't still good. see pubahs at least pubah's was still getting play from real ghetto and electro deejays in detroit. ive never seen or heard of one of the real bmore deejays dropping spankrock tunes. you probably will hear some bad stuff and get turned off...they're all like 17-19 years old, max. and they are hot on mtv etc. still, i approve. if you don't like too short, you probably won't like this either tho (lyrics are cleaner, but the rest is too short evolved...) im down with some shorty the pimp. tom Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Re: (313) Justice
yeah... maybe its a purist thing I guess. and for myself I do collect the baltimore club stuff with I suppose a purist mindset sort of too... I definitely get the spank rock / tittsworth / Ayres / bamabounce stuff but see it as a different creature (offspring) of sorts. b.t.w. on the you don't see the baltimore guys playing their stuff comment from someone... there's the Johnny Blaze remix of Diplo's Way More on dip's website. maybe an isolated example but its something. - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:24:06 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/27/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean, on this board is anyone here still got beef with people in the UK becoming fans of hey-day late 80's techno from Detroit and Chicago... and (fake gasp) making their own takes on those styles? i have no beef, but as with UK emcees and the like, i find it pretty telling that my collection is 95% US records. nothing is better than the real thing. tom Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
RE: (313) Justice
Spank Rock: I think Bump just owns it in a pitched up +8 nasty like Kelly Bundy sort of way. Much of the rest of their stuff I could take or leave. Roots manuva: haven't heard a whole lot but that Jungle Tings Proper track from the Chocolate Industries comp was pretty dope. Jeff Davis M: 980.322.1452 Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreyjdavis -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:59 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/27/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. i agree, and i like him alot. he has that uk/carribean sound to his voice, and his flow is good and not just a US knock off. as kent mentioned, the streets are also pretty great (well, at least the first album was, i havent liked anything since) without sounding at all like something that would come from the US. i never thought much of any of the grime emcees. tom
Re: (313) Justice
its not about straight up stealing a sound, its about getting popular with a watered down version of something that isnt even his to water down. theyre the elvises of club music. that's all cultural politics, which concerns me, but it's beside the fact of whether the music is good or not, and while i can't say it doesn't affect my opinion of music if i know the backstory etc, i don't think it should. elvis was just trying to make some music he loved, he wasn't trying to steal black music, and he didn't sound just like black music. he can't help it that white america loved his music, what was he supposed to do, say thanks anyway, but keep your money i'd rather be a starving artist? or should he have just stuck to making white music and minded his place? that's a real narrow view and we wouldn't have a lot of great musical styles if people did that. if everybody thought like that, people would have dismissed techno (ahem) as just some black guys trying to sound like german guys. or how about convextion, he's not black, and he's not from detroit so? if you're going to get all political about music, don't blame the artists, blame society. i didn't even know ayres was white and i think it has f*ckall to do with whether he's a good dj or not, nor do i think the fact that he's popular while the original guys aren't has anything to do with how his music sounds. besides, like rob g says, spank and ayres etc have their own sound, they're not just imitators. at least pubah's was still getting play from real ghetto and electro deejays in detroit. ive never seen or heard of one of the real bmore deejays dropping spankrock tunes. who cares? music is what it is, i don't care who's playing it or how much street cred it has if i really like it. if i don't like it i am more likely to focus on all these things you are, but it's nonsense really, nothing to do with the actual aesthetics of music. i don't like el-p because i don't like his voice or his flow, not because he's white and didn't grow up in bed-stuy and doesn't get played by [blank]
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On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's all cultural politics, which concerns me, but it's beside the fact of whether the music is good or not, and while i can't say it doesn't affect my opinion of music if i know the backstory etc, i don't think it should. its not cultural politics, its whats right and whats wrong. elvis was just trying to make some music he loved, he wasn't trying to steal black music, and he didn't sound just like black music. he can't help it that white america loved his music, what was he supposed to do, say thanks anyway, but keep your money i'd rather be a starving artist? or should he have just stuck to making white music and minded his place? that's a real narrow view and we wouldn't have a lot of great musical styles if people did that. he should have said this is wrong, i am not the king of rock and roll, this is all nonsense, these are the people who made this music, they should be getting paid and be popular. obviously, he never did anything of the sort. he was all too happy to continue the bamboozlement because it put cash in his pocket. which is why i dont give a sh*t about elvis. if everybody thought like that, people would have dismissed techno (ahem) as just some black guys trying to sound like german guys. but thats obviously not true. or how about convextion, he's not black, and he's not from detroit so? was he trying to white wash a sound to make it popular for people who are outside of its usual audience? obviously you fall into the same category, you come from this culture, you make the music. there's no problem with that. if you're going to get all political about music, don't blame the artists, blame society. but the artists are the ones who control how they are marketed and who their crowds are and what the perception of their music is. its possible to do it the right way without being a bullsh*t artist. i didn't even know ayres was white and i think it has f*ckall to do with whether he's a good dj or not, nor do i think the fact that he's popular while the original guys aren't has anything to do with how his music sounds. his music is a joke, that has nothing to do with why i dont like these other aspects of it. but the fact that people equate his joke music to club music is what really irritates me. besides, like rob g says, spank and ayres etc have their own sound, they're not just imitators. no, theyre selling an image of that music to people who peddle in irony instead of good music. its even worse than being an imitator IMO. who cares? music is what it is, i don't care who's playing it or how much street cred it has if i really like it. street cred? what are you talking about? all music is part of a culture that shapes the sounds. if someone is not part of that culture and just jacks the sounds, theyre just pirates. which is what titface and whatshisname do. music is not just some notes played on an instrument, there's a reason for each note and each rhythm. if i don't like it i am more likely to focus on all these things you are, but it's nonsense really, nothing to do with the actual aesthetics of music. i cant disagree more. watered down crap isnt going to sound as good as the stuff its ripping off, it never does. maybe if youve never heard the real stuff, knock offs sound okay. i don't like el-p because i don't like his voice or his flow, not because he's white and didn't grow up in bed-stuy and doesn't get played by [blank] i like el-p's beats because he came from hiphop culture and his audience is a hiphop audience. i dont like his rhyming because it is weak. that is different from why i dont like someone like tithead and whatever or spank rock. sh*t, what they do could be being done solely by black artists and i would still think it was just as weak. of course i dont think its a coincidence that these kinds of things are almost always perpetrated by white artists. tom
Re: (313) Justice
well good thing you're just some idiot that works at a record store and not anyone with any influence, because again, you're spewing idiotic nonsense. you've got a massive case of white guilt or self loathing or a bit or both. - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's all cultural politics, which concerns me, but it's beside the fact of whether the music is good or not, and while i can't say it doesn't affect my opinion of music if i know the backstory etc, i don't think it should. its not cultural politics, its whats right and whats wrong. elvis was just trying to make some music he loved, he wasn't trying to steal black music, and he didn't sound just like black music. he can't help it that white america loved his music, what was he supposed to do, say thanks anyway, but keep your money i'd rather be a starving artist? or should he have just stuck to making white music and minded his place? that's a real narrow view and we wouldn't have a lot of great musical styles if people did that. he should have said this is wrong, i am not the king of rock and roll, this is all nonsense, these are the people who made this music, they should be getting paid and be popular. obviously, he never did anything of the sort. he was all too happy to continue the bamboozlement because it put cash in his pocket. which is why i dont give a sh*t about elvis. if everybody thought like that, people would have dismissed techno (ahem) as just some black guys trying to sound like german guys. but thats obviously not true. or how about convextion, he's not black, and he's not from detroit so? was he trying to white wash a sound to make it popular for people who are outside of its usual audience? obviously you fall into the same category, you come from this culture, you make the music. there's no problem with that. if you're going to get all political about music, don't blame the artists, blame society. but the artists are the ones who control how they are marketed and who their crowds are and what the perception of their music is. its possible to do it the right way without being a bullsh*t artist. i didn't even know ayres was white and i think it has f*ckall to do with whether he's a good dj or not, nor do i think the fact that he's popular while the original guys aren't has anything to do with how his music sounds. his music is a joke, that has nothing to do with why i dont like these other aspects of it. but the fact that people equate his joke music to club music is what really irritates me. besides, like rob g says, spank and ayres etc have their own sound, they're not just imitators. no, theyre selling an image of that music to people who peddle in irony instead of good music. its even worse than being an imitator IMO. who cares? music is what it is, i don't care who's playing it or how much street cred it has if i really like it. street cred? what are you talking about? all music is part of a culture that shapes the sounds. if someone is not part of that culture and just jacks the sounds, theyre just pirates. which is what titface and whatshisname do. music is not just some notes played on an instrument, there's a reason for each note and each rhythm. if i don't like it i am more likely to focus on all these things you are, but it's nonsense really, nothing to do with the actual aesthetics of music. i cant disagree more. watered down crap isnt going to sound as good as the stuff its ripping off, it never does. maybe if youve never heard the real stuff, knock offs sound okay. i don't like el-p because i don't like his voice or his flow, not because he's white and didn't grow up in bed-stuy and doesn't get played by [blank] i like el-p's beats because he came from hiphop culture and his audience is a hiphop audience. i dont like his rhyming because it is weak. that is different from why i dont like someone like tithead and whatever or spank rock. sh*t, what they do could be being done solely by black artists and i would still think it was just as weak. of course i dont think its a coincidence that these kinds of things are almost always perpetrated by white artists. tom
Re: (313) Justice
its a classic debate here, ain't it? Elvis, or the Beatles and the Rolling Stones with respect to Rock Roll and the Blues, Little Richard, etc. (or even Beastie Boys, Eminem, etc?) I agree with J.T. comment about blame society not the artist. if an artists work reflects influence of something they genuinely admire... can they help it if they get popular? Was it Elvis's fault he was white? - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:10:05 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's all cultural politics, which concerns me, but it's beside the fact of whether the music is good or not, and while i can't say it doesn't affect my opinion of music if i know the backstory etc, i don't think it should. its not cultural politics, its whats right and whats wrong. elvis was just trying to make some music he loved, he wasn't trying to steal black music, and he didn't sound just like black music. he can't help it that white america loved his music, what was he supposed to do, say thanks anyway, but keep your money i'd rather be a starving artist? or should he have just stuck to making white music and minded his place? that's a real narrow view and we wouldn't have a lot of great musical styles if people did that. he should have said this is wrong, i am not the king of rock and roll, this is all nonsense, these are the people who made this music, they should be getting paid and be popular. obviously, he never did anything of the sort. he was all too happy to continue the bamboozlement because it put cash in his pocket. which is why i dont give a sh*t about elvis. if everybody thought like that, people would have dismissed techno (ahem) as just some black guys trying to sound like german guys. but thats obviously not true. or how about convextion, he's not black, and he's not from detroit so? was he trying to white wash a sound to make it popular for people who are outside of its usual audience? obviously you fall into the same category, you come from this culture, you make the music. there's no problem with that. if you're going to get all political about music, don't blame the artists, blame society. but the artists are the ones who control how they are marketed and who their crowds are and what the perception of their music is. its possible to do it the right way without being a bullsh*t artist. i didn't even know ayres was white and i think it has f*ckall to do with whether he's a good dj or not, nor do i think the fact that he's popular while the original guys aren't has anything to do with how his music sounds. his music is a joke, that has nothing to do with why i dont like these other aspects of it. but the fact that people equate his joke music to club music is what really irritates me. besides, like rob g says, spank and ayres etc have their own sound, they're not just imitators. no, theyre selling an image of that music to people who peddle in irony instead of good music. its even worse than being an imitator IMO. who cares? music is what it is, i don't care who's playing it or how much street cred it has if i really like it. street cred? what are you talking about? all music is part of a culture that shapes the sounds. if someone is not part of that culture and just jacks the sounds, theyre just pirates. which is what titface and whatshisname do. music is not just some notes played on an instrument, there's a reason for each note and each rhythm. if i don't like it i am more likely to focus on all these things you are, but it's nonsense really, nothing to do with the actual aesthetics of music. i cant disagree more. watered down crap isnt going to sound as good as the stuff its ripping off, it never does. maybe if youve never heard the real stuff, knock offs sound okay. i don't like el-p because i don't like his voice or his flow, not because he's white and didn't grow up in bed-stuy and doesn't get played by [blank] i like el-p's beats because he came from hiphop culture and his audience is a hiphop audience. i dont like his rhyming because it is weak. that is different from why i dont like someone like tithead and whatever or spank rock. sh*t, what they do could be being done solely by black artists and i would still think it was just as weak. of course i dont think its a coincidence that these kinds of things are almost always perpetrated by white artists. tom Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Re: (313) Justice
its not cultural politics, its whats right and whats wrong. hahaha ho-kay he should have said this is wrong, i am not the king of rock and roll, this is all nonsense, these are the people who made this music, they should be getting paid and be popular. obviously, he never did anything of the sort. he was all too happy to continue the bamboozlement because it put cash in his pocket. which is why i dont give a sh*t about elvis. haha you are crazy. if everybody thought like that, people would have dismissed techno (ahem) as just some black guys trying to sound like german guys. but thats obviously not true. oh no? maybe you aren't aware of things that aren't so obvious? was he trying to white wash a sound to make it popular for people who are outside of its usual audience? obviously you fall into the same yes category, you come from this culture, you make the music. there's no problem with that. i was listening to indie rock all the time in 1996 and there is no real dance music culture in the south outside of hiphop but the artists are the ones who control how they are marketed and who says who? are you kidding? i didnt even control how i was marketed with mo'wax/platinum projects, hence, they spelled my name wrong their crowds are and what the perception of their music is. its how do we control who our crowds are? i wish! possible to do it the right way without being a bullsh*t artist. ahh the right way! who do i get ahold of for this? his music is a joke, that has nothing to do with why i dont like these other aspects of it. but the fact that people equate his joke music to club music is what really irritates me. you're a joke with this hater stuff man. taco, his music was truly a joke. no, theyre selling an image of that music to people who peddle in irony instead of good music. its even worse than being an imitator IMO. gimme a break. surprise tom -- in general party music is popular. including in bmore. street cred? what are you talking about? all music is part of a i'm talking about all your talk about the real artists not playing/making the same sort of stuff as spank/ayres hence they are not credible on da streets and deserve no respect! it's your whole point as far as i can tell culture that shapes the sounds. if someone is not part of that culture and just jacks the sounds, theyre just pirates. which is what titface come on!! these aren't soul-less 60 year old record producers making this stuff to cash in, it's people who heard the music and honestly loved it. neither ayres nor spank just walked into major label deals either! come on! i cant disagree more. watered down crap isnt going to sound as good as the stuff its ripping off, it never does. maybe if youve never heard the real stuff, knock offs sound okay. i've heard plenty of the real stuff, LOADS AND LOADS of it SUCKS!! SUCKS HARD! i like el-p's beats because he came from hiphop culture and his can you please distinguish how he came from hiphop culture any more than ayres, and is it really necessary to distinguish hiphop from bmore from house etc etc? so if somebody who is a dope hiphop producer falls in love with house, they can know to stay away because they are not real? whatever or spank rock. sh*t, what they do could be being done solely by black artists and i would still think it was just as weak. of wow, no kidding? course i dont think its a coincidence that these kinds of things are almost always perpetrated by white artists. what sorts of things? race is sometimes an issue, but why is it here? why would it be so different if spank rock were all black instead of 1/2 black? and you are leaving out the rest of the damn globe. all this hispanic hiphop, kuduro, baile, kwaito, on and on..i guess because they arent white, their massive inspiration from hiphop culture is a different matter... tom dum
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you've got a massive case of white guilt or self loathing or a bit or both. the only white people i loathe are those like you, jokers. tom
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, Magnus Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tom, ahem as far as I know, Spank Rock are not all white: http://www.spankrock.net/ i addressed that point in another post. Director James Spooner, maker of the Movie afro punk even devines their music as Afro Punk - and Afro Punk is surely one of the most interesting movements in the states of the present ... and also makes things a bit more complicated .. not interesting, not more complicated. just a joke. media driven nonsense. there is no movement. tmo
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: haha you are crazy. i never said i wasnt. says who? are you kidding? i didnt even control how i was marketed with mo'wax/platinum projects, hence, they spelled my name wrong so you didnt sign with them in the first place? if you wanted to be marketed in a specific way, you could have bypassed all of that by not signing on the dotted line. simple as that. how do we control who our crowds are? i wish! well, if you are a house and techno deejay, and youre being booked in a city to play a club that plays ironic hipster music, surely you could just turn the gig down? ahh the right way! who do i get ahold of for this? anyone who has a conscience and isnt into ripping off cultures. you're a joke with this hater stuff man. no. gimme a break. surprise tom -- in general party music is popular. including in bmore. maybe with the ironic white hipsters there. i'm talking about all your talk about the real artists not playing/making the same sort of stuff as spank/ayres hence they are not credible on da streets and deserve no respect! it's your whole point as far as i can tell i never said anything about streets. theyre not creidble in the culture they claim to be part of. that means theyre nothing. come on!! these aren't soul-less 60 year old record producers making this stuff to cash in, it's people who heard the music and honestly loved it. neither ayres nor spank just walked into major label deals either! come on! so if theyre not on majors they cant be making money off of somethign thats not theirs? i've heard plenty of the real stuff, LOADS AND LOADS of it SUCKS!! SUCKS HARD! none of it sucks as much as spank rock or ta. not a single track. can you please distinguish how he came from hiphop culture any more than ayres el-p released indie hiphop with company flow years and years before indie hiphop was anything: http://www.discogs.com/release/242128 before it made money, before anyone gave a sh*t that guy was there. these guys showed up last week trying to cash in on the hipster popularity of local black musics so they can get paid. and is it really necessary to distinguish hiphop from bmore from house etc etc? so if somebody who is a dope hiphop producer falls in love with house, they can know to stay away because they are not real? hiphop and house and club culture are all closely related. plenty of people make both and participate in both cultures. what sorts of things? cultural appropriation. race is sometimes an issue, but why is it here? because in balitmore, the artists and crowds for club music are traditionally all black. now suddenly there's this alternate club music being made and listened to by white hipsters because its ironic to like something so ghetto or whatever. why would it be so different if spank rock were all black instead of 1/2 black? it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. and you are leaving out the rest of the damn globe. all this hispanic hiphop, kuduro, baile, kwaito, on and on..i guess because they arent white, their massive inspiration from hiphop culture is a different matter... you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. tom
Re: (313) Justice
Too much of anything is bad. My current playlist is Justice, Mills' One Man Spaceship, David Bowie's Young Americans, Station To Station Low, Dimitri From Paris' Cocktail Disco of lost 'sleaze' disco, and my friend Christian Vance's live CD. On 26/06/2007, at 7:51 AM, Carlos de Brito wrote: you're not alone, Cyclone. i enjoy some of the justice, dj mehdi, digitalism, boyz noise, mr. oizo etc.., too. d.a.n.c.e and phantoms pt. 2 are huge. the thing is: too much of that stuff in a row annoys me too. maybe it's a bit too calculable, maybe it's just that i'm getting old. c* Cyclone Wehner schrieb: Yeah I didn't know it was some faux pas to mention them here. Laurent likes and plays them. Is it the image or music you dislike? I am enjoying the Justice album. There is a French sensibility I like. The song DANCE written for Michael Jackson's lost childhood has a pathos. I am surprised people here wouldn't like Mehdi though - that's innovative hip-hop. On 25/06/2007, at 6:28 PM, Odeluga, Ken wrote: I'm sure you wouldn't vomit if you concentrated on the tastiness of his name Tom. :) Just think, we have Ed(ward), as in King Edwards (a variety of English Potatoes) and 'Bangers' - slang for sausages. These are what you need for 'bangers and mash' ... that staple of UK haute cuisine ... and only slightly more stodgy than the Justice sound, imo. Ken -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 June 2007 18:29 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/24/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does everyone think of these guys? I am really enjoying the album. The French really have their own sound and ethos. I love Mehdi on Ed Banger too! I feel they're doing what Technasia might have done - becoming a techno Daft Punk! daft punk is techno. ed banger stuff makes me wanna vomit. tom
Re: (313) Justice
Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. His wife is a graff artist, I believe. I think that Midfield General thing could be a favour as Damian Harris helped Justice find a choir for DANCE. On 26/06/2007, at 7:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to agree with Tom - reminds me of the worst characteristics of big beat Ed Banger records even have Midfield General (owner of Skint - original home of Fatboy Slim) doing a remix of Krazy Baldhead and it's a straight-up full on big beat rave sound complete with the hip-hop vocal sample Imo - DJ Mehdi is about as hip-hop as the Freestylers (B-Boy Stance anyone?) MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/25/2007 03:23:07 PM: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah I didn't know it was some faux pas to mention them here. Laurent likes and plays them. Is it the image or music you dislike? all of the above. i could tell from seeing them in trendy magazines that i wouldnt like them. when i heard their music (before knowing who it was that was playing) i never would have guessed that they would be *that* bad. but they are. horrible horrible nonsense. its like the less intelligent cousin of big beat and mainstream house. it really cant get worse. i think id rather listen to aril brikha's recent album. I am enjoying the Justice album. There is a French sensibility I like. i like alot of french artists: pepe braddock, motorbass, air, daft punk, etc. being french doesnt make the music any better if its bad though I am surprised people here wouldn't like Mehdi though - that's innovative hip-hop. im even pickier about hiphop than i am dance music. there's so little that i like. and almost nothing that i would consider innovative. mehdi is definitely not either, IMO. tom
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something. im not sure i would even call mehdi hiphop, really. but im a hater. tmo
RE: (313) Justice
all of the above. i could tell from seeing them in trendy magazines that i wouldnt like them. when i heard their music (before knowing who it was that was playing) i never would have guessed that they would be *that* bad. but they are. horrible horrible nonsense. its like the less intelligent cousin of big beat and mainstream house. it really cant get worse. i think id rather listen to aril brikha's recent album. Ooh that was low Tom! ;-)
RE: (313) Justice
I just had a listen to it via junorecords. Does it sound better uncompressed? -Original Message- From: Odeluga, Ken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:05 PM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) Justice all of the above. i could tell from seeing them in trendy magazines that i wouldnt like them. when i heard their music (before knowing who it was that was playing) i never would have guessed that they would be *that* bad. but they are. horrible horrible nonsense. its like the less intelligent cousin of big beat and mainstream house. it really cant get worse. i think id rather listen to aril brikha's recent album. Ooh that was low Tom! ;-) -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM
Re: (313) Justice
- Original Message - From: pauley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: RE: (313) Justice I just had a listen to it via junorecords. Does it sound better uncompressed? No... m
Re: (313) Justice
- Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:57 AM Subject: [SPAM-LOW] Re: (313) Justice On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something. I agree, although I really struggle with most British MCs too. It's kind of like asking a Papua New Guinean to yodel. That said, I've got some time for MC Solaar and a few other exceptions to the rule. Tristan === [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phonopsia.co.uk
RE: (313) Justice
Papua New Guinean Yodelling would be worth the entrance fee in itself, surely... -Original Message- From: Tristan Watkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 June 2007 09:58 To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:57 AM Subject: [SPAM-LOW] Re: (313) Justice On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something. I agree, although I really struggle with most British MCs too. It's kind of like asking a Papua New Guinean to yodel. That said, I've got some time for MC Solaar and a few other exceptions to the rule. Tristan === [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phonopsia.co.uk
Re: (313) Justice ed banger hiphop
all of the above. i could tell from seeing them in trendy magazines that i wouldnt like them. when i heard their music (before knowing who it was that was playing) i never would have guessed that they would be *that* bad. but they are. horrible horrible nonsense. its like the less intelligent cousin of big beat and mainstream house. it really cant get worse. i think id rather listen to aril brikha's recent album. i second that. i know some of the people involved with ed banger stuff, and even they make fun of it. seriously! it's garbage but i don't take it seriously and i don't think they do either, so whatever. industry nonsense. mehdi is definitely not either, IMO. it's boring. innovative? pff there's lots of weird hip-hop out there, i don't know that experimental and innovative are the same thing. bmost of it is bring. besides, more and more i'm coming to the view that innovative is a BS word. real innovation is making something hot that lasts, whether it is miles away from the old or not (totally subjective anyways, you can always ALWAYS find something similar that laid the roots for something else), you're adding something substantial to the lexicon of music, so what's the dif. my hiphop top 5 right now would be something like: jjak hogan, spank rock, wolfpack (lil uno boo ski), black milk nametag (last 2 = 313)
