Re: (313) 8 Mile - Shelter

[g]

nope, that's not the shelter.
even before the shelter was redone (mid 90's?), it wasn't as grungy as the
place in the film.

- Original Message -
From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: (313) 8 Mile - Shelter


 I went to see a preview of 8 Mile (we got it sooo late) and it's great!
 It's funny most of the critics were over 50, what they're gonna make of a
 hip-hop movie I have no idea.
 I wondered is the Shelter in the film the actual Shelter or another
 building, I know the director aimed for authenticity but believe some
 creative license was involved.

Re: (313) 8 Mile - Shelter

[Hobey Echlin]

the shelter, at leat the exterior of it as seen in 8 miles, was converted
dentist office on the part of john R west of woodward near grandriver, a block
north from blake baxter;s old vinyl shop and just a few doors from jerome
mongo's even-earleir 90s club wax fruit and next to the gap, downtown
synagogue. for the record teh shelter was a tacky blue paint and carpeted late
80s club downstairs from st andrew's hall, which hosts the three floors of fun
party that morphed from an alt rock hangout into an ersatz hip-hop club around
the time em and his boys came on the scene. St andrew's is  sort of like
irivng plaza or bowery ballroom in ny. it was remodeled into a sleek
steel-and-wood nightclub in the early '90s and by the time em et al discovered
downtown, it was used for touring punk bands because of its small size. the
pipes-and-all version in 8 miles was a little gothic; I am shocked the
directors didn't try to instead use maurice malone's late great hip-hop shop
which is actually where the battles took place, there and at record time(as in
great dance room record time). other than that, I thought 8 mile was the best
the crow-meets-purple rain detroit hip hop movie ever.

   On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:02:25 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 nope, that's not the shelter.
 even before the shelter was redone (mid 90's?),
 it wasn't as grungy as the
 place in the film.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Cyclone Wehner 
 To: 313 Detroit 
 Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:39 AM
 Subject: (313) 8 Mile - Shelter
 
 
  I went to see a preview of 8 Mile (we got it
 sooo late) and it's great!
  It's funny most of the critics were over 50,
 what they're gonna make of a
  hip-hop movie I have no idea.
  I wondered is the Shelter in the film the
 actual Shelter or another
  building, I know the director aimed for
 authenticity but believe some
  creative license was involved.
 
 

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Brendan Nelson]

| -Original Message-
| From: Fred Heutte [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: 18 November 2002 19:33
| 
| Anyway, nowadays we get more spam than real email, and Jon Drukman is
| still making great music, now with his live electro-pop version of 
| Bass Kittens.

That's good to hear that he's still around and is still making music! 

My experience was pretty similar; after having discovered the hyperreal
mailing lists in 1993 and suddenly finding this fast-growing global
electronic music movement. In fact, right the way up until 1996, the
internet for me was almost exclusively a means for communicating with
other like-minded people about electronic music. Usenet, mailing lists
and IRC were pretty much it, as my computer was way too under-specced to
actually look at web sites in those days! But I'd never realised how
many Americans were actually on uk-dance, and now I come to think of it
I was actually on sf-raves for a while myself...

Brendan

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

on 11/17/02 4:09 PM, Forrest L Norvell at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 point #2, IDM was not NAMED after the hyperreal mailing list.
 
 I joined [EMAIL PROTECTED] in September of 1993, soon after its
 formation. The preceding summer, Warp had released the first round of
 (artificial intelligence) records. Brian Behlendorf, the owner of
 Hyperreal and the founder of idm, had needed a name for the new list,
 and since the Warp series was called (artificial intelligence) and it
 was at least partially the model for the kind of music he wanted to
 discuss, I think he decided Intelligent Dance Music was as good a name
 as any. To my knowledge that was the first usage of the term IDM
 anywhere. Less than a year later, Warp brought out the compilation
 Artificial Intelligence 2, and Designers Republic incorporated
 postings from the idm list into their sleeve art.
 
 To me, the conclusion's pretty inescapably obvious.

I stand corrected.
I didn't realize the IDM list was around before the Artificial Intelligence
compilations.

 
 Do people really take mailing list seriously?
 I think your a little disillusioned if you think a small community of fans
 have such a big impact on the scene.
 
 The hard core of musicians and fans that push the techno bean along
 with their noses is very small. San Francisco has a pretty big
 reputation in the international (intelligent) techno scene because of
 people like Kit Clayton and Sutekh, and even though I'm no big cheese
 in the scene, I know both of those guys and say hi when I see them at
 shows. Sutekh, at least, I originally knew through the sf-raves
 mailing list, and I met Kit at MAD, which was for many years the only
 club night that focused on techno as such in San Francisco.
 
 Folks like Morgan Geist and Darshan Jesrani used to be active
 participants on this list, to say nothing of the ongoing involvement
 of Alan Oldham (although the list appears to have pissed him off one
 time too many, more's the pity),
 Sean Deason, and Todd Sines (among
 others). I'm pretty sure Fabrice Lig was a poster here before he
 started releasing music. The same goes for idm, where folks like CiM
 were posting to the list long before they started releasing
 music. It's an open-ended question (as per above) as to how
 influential these lists are, but in the small and relatively closed
 universe of techno, online forums have a large and growing presence.
 
 yrz,
 Forrest

I guess you have a point but that only represents a small percentage of the
growing techno scene.
I can name a long list of artist that are highly successful like Dave
Clarke, DJ Rush, or Robert Hood (Detroit techno man of the year) who do not
promote or participate on
mailing list.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Fred Heutte]

I'm going to disagree with Cyclone a bit.  While the 313 list has a
place in the history of Detroit techno, our discussions have long
been far more diverse than the intimations of single-mindedness 
indicate.  

I've been sort of amused by how one accusation of elitism got
spun into this meandering ping pong battle over the meaning of 313
or something.  

The reason 313 has thrived for so long, against numerous clueless 
incoming squadrons, is that we have a lot of people here with
differing opinions and no hesitation to express them, very deep 
experience, and a distaste for exactly the kind of navel-gazing of 
which we are now being accused.

Now can we get past obvious trollbait like:

I think your a little disillusioned if you think a small community 
of fans have such a big impact on the scene. 

It's not about our disillusionment, Stephen, as if all 313ers
could be said to have any single common view.  It's about your
presuppositions of the history and interconnection between this
list and Detroit techno.

You're welcome to your opinions on that; the more the merrier.
But I would say that the archives are readily available, and a
little bit of time skimming through them over the years might prove
to be instructive.

phred

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Cyclone Wehner]

Actually, just to reiterate, I did not post these words so they are not my
arguments at all. Someone cut and paste it so it looked like 'Cyclone
wrote'...
People should take care when they cut and paste or whatever so things are
not ripped out of context or wrongly attributed to others.

 I'm going to disagree with Cyclone a bit. While the 313 list has a
 place in the history of Detroit techno, our discussions have long
 been far more diverse than the intimations of single-mindedness
 indicate.

 I've been sort of amused by how one accusation of elitism got
 spun into this meandering ping pong battle over the meaning of 313
 or something.

 The reason 313 has thrived for so long, against numerous clueless
 incoming squadrons, is that we have a lot of people here with
 differing opinions and no hesitation to express them, very deep
 experience, and a distaste for exactly the kind of navel-gazing of
 which we are now being accused.

 Now can we get past obvious trollbait like:

 I think your a little disillusioned if you think a small community
 of fans have such a big impact on the scene.

 It's not about our disillusionment, Stephen, as if all 313ers
 could be said to have any single common view. It's about your
 presuppositions of the history and interconnection between this
 list and Detroit techno.

 You're welcome to your opinions on that; the more the merrier.
 But I would say that the archives are readily available, and a
 little bit of time skimming through them over the years might prove
 to be instructive.

 phred




 

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

Fred I'm not here to troll, it comes down to a difference in opinion.
I'm here because I have an interest in 313 music, I've been buying Detroit
techno since 1989.
in response to your last paragraph a searchable database for the 313 list
archives would be very helpful.

on 11/17/02 10:26 PM, Fred Heutte at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm going to disagree with Cyclone a bit.  While the 313 list has a
 place in the history of Detroit techno, our discussions have long
 been far more diverse than the intimations of single-mindedness
 indicate.  
 
 I've been sort of amused by how one accusation of elitism got
 spun into this meandering ping pong battle over the meaning of 313
 or something.  
 
 The reason 313 has thrived for so long, against numerous clueless
 incoming squadrons, is that we have a lot of people here with
 differing opinions and no hesitation to express them, very deep
 experience, and a distaste for exactly the kind of navel-gazing of
 which we are now being accused.
 
 Now can we get past obvious trollbait like:
 
 I think your a little disillusioned if you think a small community
 of fans have such a big impact on the scene.
 
 It's not about our disillusionment, Stephen, as if all 313ers
 could be said to have any single common view.  It's about your
 presuppositions of the history and interconnection between this
 list and Detroit techno.
 
 You're welcome to your opinions on that; the more the merrier.
 But I would say that the archives are readily available, and a
 little bit of time skimming through them over the years might prove
 to be instructive.
 
 phred

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

My apologies, that was very careless of me.
I was responding to Mr. Corn Warning Kent Williams

on 11/17/02 10:27 PM, Cyclone Wehner at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Actually, just to reiterate, I did not post these words so they are not my
 arguments at all. Someone cut and paste it so it looked like 'Cyclone
 wrote'...
 People should take care when they cut and paste or whatever so things are
 not ripped out of context or wrongly attributed to others.

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Craig Harrison]

You're telling me! - a searchable archive would be fantastic.

There's a catch 22 for new people (one of which is me), in that it's fairly
tricky to say the least that people like myself would like to make a post
about something, but as we all know could be responded to with the see the
archives reply. My mouse can only take so much scrolling before the wheel
melts. :)

Dscaper.
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk

-Original Message-
From: techno [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 November 2002 06:55
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

snip
in response to your last paragraph a searchable database for the 313 list
archives would be very helpful.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Fred Heutte]

I probably should have been more specific, Cyclone -- I was referring
to your apparently favorable comment -- some interesting points --
but it's really the comments you quoted from the other email I was
disagreeing with.

I'm a pretty strong defender of 313 because it has kept going for
years and years while all the other lists I joined way back when ended
up sinking into a foul pit of flames and idiocy.

It was almost exactly ten years ago this month that the legendary 
go away Moby thread was starting up on ne-raves; a couple years later, 
ne-raves lost its really unique camaraderie and became a toxic swamp 
of screeching about how hardcore was by far the best form of music ever 
made, or something.  dc-raves, socal-raves, nw-raves, mw-raves, even my 
beloved sfraves -- all were sunk by the tragedy of write-only loudmouths.

Some managed to recover and continue in reasonable fashion, but the
people I knew from those lists long since disappeared, like leaving a
favorite corner pub because the bar fights went from occasional
distraction to ongoing nuisance.  

Among the public *ave lists I joined way back when, the honorable
survivors are 313 and uk-dance.  

As for doing a searchable index of the 313 archives, Hyperreal is a
volunteer-run system and would welcome someone coming along to hook
up a bit of this and a bit of that and do it.  As we always say, 
it's an  SMOP  -- simple matter of programming.

phred

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Cyclone Wehner]

 I probably should have been more specific, Cyclone -- I was referring
 to your apparently favorable comment -- some interesting points --
 but it's really the comments you quoted from the other email I was
 disagreeing with.

Nah, for me some interesting points usually means that I hadn't thought of
it that way, and don't necessarily agree but it's something I'll think
about.
It's not favourable or unfavourable.

;)

I actually think mailing lists are very influential. Mailing lists and web
sites actually mean that many more people have an outlet to express views
and post 'reviews'. Almost anyone can be a 'critic' or anyone can be a
'reviewer' and it gives people networks.
I have thought that there is an elitism in some techno ranks (not
necessarily 313) but I find that out on the streets and in the clubs as much
as here and among a select group at that.
Actually there are times when this list constitutes my social life - long
hours on the computer, ya know - so I am a big defender.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[tom churchill]

 Less than a year later, Warp brought out the compilation Artificial
 Intelligence 2, and Designers Republic incorporated postings from the idm list
 into their sleeve art.

Sorry to be pedantic, but those postings were actually from the UK-Dance
list, I believe...

But I'm certainly not questioning the original point which was that 'IDM'
became an established name for a genre as a result of the original Hyperreal
IDM list...

Cheers,

Tom

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Forrest L Norvell]

On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:12:28AM +, tom churchill wrote:
  Less than a year later, Warp brought out the compilation
  Artificial Intelligence 2, and Designers Republic incorporated
  postings from the idm list into their sleeve art.
 
 Sorry to be pedantic, but those postings were actually from the
 UK-Dance list, I believe...

It's quite possible you're right, although I was on UK-Dance at about
that time and I don't remember Jon Drukman being a part of the list.
Then again, my assertion was based on an interminable discussion
thread (has there ever been any other kind?) on idm itself when AI 2
came out. It's also possible we're both right -- given the way that
the messages and headers have been blenderized, they could almost have
been from anywhere. Man, Greg Eden. I haven't thought of him in
years. But enough counter-pedantry.

I agree with Fred. 313's stayed relevant and interesting when a lot of
other techno-related mailing lists have fallen to pieces. If you do
ever have the time to kill reading the archives, you'll probably find
it eye-opening, as I did, to see how 313 has changed over the years,
in large part to mirror the changes in Detroit and perceptions of what
techno is and means. About the only constants have been a fondness for
Derrick May and Maurizio and squabbles over the greatness of Jeff
Mills and Richie Hawtin.

F

-- 
   . . . the self-reflecting image of a narcotized mind . . .
ozymandias G desiderata [EMAIL PROTECTED] desperate, deathless
(415)823-6356   http://www.pushby.com/forrest/   ::AOAIOXXYSZ::

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Brendan Nelson]

| -Original Message-
| From: Forrest L Norvell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: 18 November 2002 10:35
|  
|  Sorry to be pedantic, but those postings were actually from the
|  UK-Dance list, I believe...
| 
| It's quite possible you're right, although I was on UK-Dance at about
| that time and I don't remember Jon Drukman being a part of the list.

I was on both idm and UK-Dance, and am fairly sure that Warp used IDM
posts because, as you mention, I definitely remember Jon Drukman being
quoted on the AI 2 sleeve, and, as a San Franciscan, I doubt he'd have
much reason to be subbed to uk-dance!

I am definitely in agreement with those who are saying that 313 has
stood the test of time, so to speak, than many of the other music lists
that came into existence in the early 1990s. My relationship with 313
became basically monogamous by 1995, as the IDM list stagnated and the
ambient list started to fade away, and even though I've been on and off
of this list over the years, no other music lists really hold my
interest all that much...

Brendan

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Jongsma, K.J.]

 Fred I'm not here to troll, it comes down to a difference in opinion.
 I'm here because I have an interest in 313 music, I've been 
 buying Detroit
 techno since 1989.

And why do you think we are on this list?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
DISCLAIMER

De gemeente Almelo aanvaardt voor haar medewerkers geen enkele
aansprakelijkheid voor eventueel onjuist, onrechtmatig of 
ontoelaatbaar geacht gebruik van e-mail (inclusief bijlagen).

Dit e-mail bericht is door de gemeente Almelo gecontroleerd op
de aanwezigheid van eventuele virussen. Wij kunnen echter geen
garantie afgeven dat al onze e-mail berichten volledig virus
vrij zijn. Het is daarom verstandig uw binnenkomende e-mail 
berichten zelf op de mogelijke aanwezigheid van virussen 
te controleren.
--

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[tom churchill]

 I was on both idm and UK-Dance, and am fairly sure that Warp used IDM
 posts...

I wasn't on either list at the time (I joined both in 1995 I think), so I
was going on the text here...

http://www.uk-dance.org/help/history.html

...which says:

Warp's Artificial Intelligence album ‹ pretentious noodling or good music?
Either way, the discussion got ripped off by Warp for the cover of their AI2
compilation.

Cheers,

Tom

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Dan Sicko]

As for doing a searchable index of the 313 archives, Hyperreal is a
volunteer-run system and would welcome someone coming along to hook
up a bit of this and a bit of that and do it.  As we always say,
it's an  SMOP  -- simple matter of programming.


If anyone has an idea as to how to do this without having all the 
messages from the last 8 years exist as standard Web pages that can be 
tracked by search engines, let me know.


Used to be that browsers could open up the GZIPs and read them right in 
the browser window, right?


-d

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Craig Harrison]

Ouch... that one's gotta hurt. ;)

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.

(P.S. Puchaser of both Detroit and global techno... first rule of music is
never to close your ears because of boundaries.)

 -Original Message-
 From: Jongsma, K.J. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 18 November 2002 11:01
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history



  Fred I'm not here to troll, it comes down to a difference in opinion.
  I'm here because I have an interest in 313 music, I've been
  buying Detroit
  techno since 1989.

 And why do you think we are on this list?

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 --
 DISCLAIMER

 De gemeente Almelo aanvaardt voor haar medewerkers geen enkele
 aansprakelijkheid voor eventueel onjuist, onrechtmatig of
 ontoelaatbaar geacht gebruik van e-mail (inclusief bijlagen).

 Dit e-mail bericht is door de gemeente Almelo gecontroleerd op
 de aanwezigheid van eventuele virussen. Wij kunnen echter geen
 garantie afgeven dat al onze e-mail berichten volledig virus
 vrij zijn. Het is daarom verstandig uw binnenkomende e-mail
 berichten zelf op de mogelijke aanwezigheid van virussen
 te controleren.
 --

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Craig Harrison]

If you (I say figuratively) parse each message in a db (MySQL will suffice),
then it's a case of working out the relationships between threads (reply
to's, timestamps, etc).

It's possible that's for sure.

If anyone out there has got a breakdown of mail protocol, and standards used
by the mail manager, then I can help throw some code together.

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Dan Sicko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 18 November 2002 15:39
 To: Fred Heutte
 Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history


  As for doing a searchable index of the 313 archives, Hyperreal is a
  volunteer-run system and would welcome someone coming along to hook
  up a bit of this and a bit of that and do it.  As we always say,
  it's an  SMOP  -- simple matter of programming.

 If anyone has an idea as to how to do this without having all the
 messages from the last 8 years exist as standard Web pages that can be
 tracked by search engines, let me know.

 Used to be that browsers could open up the GZIPs and read them right in
 the browser window, right?

 -d

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Fred Heutte]

It's quite possible that Jon Drukman was subbed to uk-dance a decade
ago -- I was, and a lot of us west coasters joined ne-raves and dc-raves
and so on for the same reason, there were a few hundred of us online
worldwide and it was exciting to hook up to a truly global and co-evolving
music and technology scene.

It was a different world -- most of the online action was on the now-
forgotten world of BBSes, AOL had less than half a million subscribers,
and you could read all postings in a dozen Usenet newsgroups every day
and not fall behind.  It was kind of nice, actually, even at 2400 bps.

Anyway, nowadays we get more spam than real email, and Jon Drukman is
still making great music, now with his live electro-pop version of 
Bass Kittens.

Fred

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Cyclone Wehner]

 Well, it's like this: to some extent, the 313 list INVENTED the sort of
 over-reverent, concerned-with-absolute-purity, hardcore trainspotter version
 of Detroit Techno. A few journalists got on the list and started spreading
 the meme to the hoi polloi. People start seeing their opinions reflected
 back at them from magazines and think they got the world on lock.

 I mean there's a whole GENRE of music -- IDM -- that is NAMED after a mailing
 list. And, I might add, the mailing list is 95% of the worldwide market for
 the music. Does that make mailing lists influential, or just just a
 closed feedback loop?

Some interesting points.


 And lest we forget, the whole futuristic utopian idea of techno was invented
 by Derrick May and Juan Atkins egging on British journalists some time after
 they started making the music.

Sure, that was the idea, but they never said it was exclusive. I know
Derrick listens to a bit of everything.


The whole problem with journalists is
 they're writers, and they're always confusing an attractive narrative
 for reality.

Now that is a generalisation!!! :)

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

on 11/17/02 8:44 AM, Cyclone Wehner at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Well, it's like this: to some extent, the 313 list INVENTED the sort of
 over-reverent, concerned-with-absolute-purity, hardcore trainspotter version
 of Detroit Techno. A few journalists got on the list and started spreading
 the meme to the hoi polloi. People start seeing their opinions reflected
 back at them from magazines and think they got the world on lock.

 I mean there's a whole GENRE of music -- IDM -- that is NAMED after a mailing
 list. And, I might add, the mailing list is 95% of the worldwide market for
 the music.

 Some interesting points.

Please elaborate on point #1.
Who are these so called journalists and magazines?

point #2, IDM was not NAMED after the hyperreal mailing list.

 Does that make mailing lists influential, or just just a
 closed feedback loop?

Do people really take mailing list seriously?
I think your a little disillusioned if you think a small community of fans
have such a big impact on the scene.

 And lest we forget, the whole futuristic utopian idea of techno was invented
 by Derrick May and Juan Atkins egging on British journalists some time after
 they started making the music.

That could be said about the genere term techno but the ideology was
nothing new to Juan Atkins and Derrick May.

 The whole problem with journalists is
 they're writers, and they're always confusing an attractive narrative
 for reality.

 Now that is a generalisation!!! :)

It seems there is a lot of aspiring writers and journalists on the 313 list.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Forrest L Norvell]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 11:35:19AM -0600, techno wrote:
  I mean there's a whole GENRE of music -- IDM -- that is NAMED
  after a mailing list. And, I might add, the mailing list is 95%
  of the worldwide market for the music.
 
 point #2, IDM was not NAMED after the hyperreal mailing list.

I joined [EMAIL PROTECTED] in September of 1993, soon after its
formation. The preceding summer, Warp had released the first round of
(artificial intelligence) records. Brian Behlendorf, the owner of
Hyperreal and the founder of idm, had needed a name for the new list,
and since the Warp series was called (artificial intelligence) and it
was at least partially the model for the kind of music he wanted to
discuss, I think he decided Intelligent Dance Music was as good a name
as any. To my knowledge that was the first usage of the term IDM
anywhere. Less than a year later, Warp brought out the compilation
Artificial Intelligence 2, and Designers Republic incorporated
postings from the idm list into their sleeve art.

To me, the conclusion's pretty inescapably obvious.

  Does that make mailing lists influential, or just just a
  closed feedback loop?
 
 Do people really take mailing list seriously?
 I think your a little disillusioned if you think a small community of fans
 have such a big impact on the scene.

The hard core of musicians and fans that push the techno bean along
with their noses is very small. San Francisco has a pretty big
reputation in the international (intelligent) techno scene because of
people like Kit Clayton and Sutekh, and even though I'm no big cheese
in the scene, I know both of those guys and say hi when I see them at
shows. Sutekh, at least, I originally knew through the sf-raves
mailing list, and I met Kit at MAD, which was for many years the only
club night that focused on techno as such in San Francisco.

Folks like Morgan Geist and Darshan Jesrani used to be active
participants on this list, to say nothing of the ongoing involvement
of Alan Oldham (although the list appears to have pissed him off one
time too many, more's the pity), Sean Deason, and Todd Sines (among
others). I'm pretty sure Fabrice Lig was a poster here before he
started releasing music. The same goes for idm, where folks like CiM
were posting to the list long before they started releasing
music. It's an open-ended question (as per above) as to how
influential these lists are, but in the small and relatively closed
universe of techno, online forums have a large and growing presence.

yrz,
Forrest

-- 
   . . . the self-reflecting image of a narcotized mind . . .
ozymandias G desiderata [EMAIL PROTECTED] desperate, deathless
(415)823-6356   http://www.pushby.com/forrest/   ::AOAIOXXYSZ::

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[::\)]

ok who the funk is jay dee
?


- Original Message -
From: Ian Dinsmor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Sean Creen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cyclone Wehner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


 Here's a curve ball for the list.

 I was working the other night, and in walks Jay Dee, only to ask for
 Herbert's Bodily Functions LP.

 Behold, the paths of hip hop and techno cross in ways.


 ID

  From: Sean Creen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:48:58 -
  To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313 Detroit
  313@hyperreal.org
  Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile
 
 
  You forget that most hip-hop headz hate techno,
 
  What are you basing that comment on? I'm not having a pop at you, its
just
  that I've never found that to be the case at all!
 
  Sean.
 

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Cyclone Wehner]

Hey they already sample that on the new album I'm told.

 Inbox Message 

 From:  Ian Dinsmor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  13/11/2002 8:53:07
 To:  Sean Creen [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cyclone Wehner
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org

 Here's a curve ball for the list.

 I was working the other night, and in walks Jay Dee, only to ask for
 Herbert's Bodily Functions LP.

 Behold, the paths of hip hop and techno cross in ways.


 ID

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Cyclone Wehner]

Sometime member of The Ummah, sometime member (and producer) of Slum
Village. From Detroit.

  Inbox Message 

 From:  ::\) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  13/11/2002 11:08:02
 To:  Ian Dinsmor [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sean Creen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org

 ok who the funk is jay dee
 ?

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[::\)]

ahh, right on.  
thx

- Original Message - 
From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


Sometime member of The Ummah, sometime member (and producer) of Slum 
Village. From Detroit.

 Inbox Message 

 From: ::\) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date: 13/11/2002 11:08:02
 To: Ian Dinsmor [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sean Creen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org

 ok who the funk is jay dee
 ?

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[FC2 Richards]

right...looking for samples i bet...I have heard alot of slum village stuff
that I thought came from techno or house or something of the sort.  I am
just horrible at placing them...

-Original Message-
From: Ian Dinsmor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:53 AM
To: Sean Creen; Cyclone Wehner; 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


Here's a curve ball for the list.

I was working the other night, and in walks Jay Dee, only to ask for
Herbert's Bodily Functions LP.

Behold, the paths of hip hop and techno cross in ways.


ID

 From: Sean Creen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:48:58 -
 To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313 Detroit
 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile
 
 
 You forget that most hip-hop headz hate techno,
 
 What are you basing that comment on? I'm not having a pop at you, its just
 that I've never found that to be the case at all!
 
 Sean.
 

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Tristan Watkins]

- Original Message -
From: FC2 Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Ian Dinsmor' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sean Creen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED];
313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:28 AM
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


 right...looking for samples i bet...I have heard alot of slum village
stuff
 that I thought came from techno or house or something of the sort.  I am
 just horrible at placing them...


Yeah. They bit Daft Punk's 'Veridis Quo' (from the 2nd album) and I'm pretty
sure they swiped something else pretty house/techno too. Can't recall at the
moment. I remember hearing the Daft Punk thievery in a Jan Jelinek
betalounge set and crapping myself. It's the one that has the chorus 'Where
You At, Uh Huh' IIRC.

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[sean deason]

oh yeah I have that record/bootleg. it has a one more time electro mix on
the flipside.

I especially like the Lil Kim track which samples French Kiss sampling
that track was way overdue!

sean
- Original Message -
From: Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FC2 Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


 - Original Message -
 From: FC2 Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Ian Dinsmor' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sean Creen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED];
 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:28 AM
 Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


  right...looking for samples i bet...I have heard alot of slum village
 stuff
  that I thought came from techno or house or something of the sort.  I am
  just horrible at placing them...


 Yeah. They bit Daft Punk's 'Veridis Quo' (from the 2nd album) and I'm
pretty
 sure they swiped something else pretty house/techno too. Can't recall at
the
 moment. I remember hearing the Daft Punk thievery in a Jan Jelinek
 betalounge set and crapping myself. It's the one that has the chorus
'Where
 You At, Uh Huh' IIRC.

 Tristan
 =
 Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
 Music: http://www.mp313.com
 Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
 a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Jongsma, K.J.]

  True - it sometimes is an era that isn't easily discovered 
 but it's not
  impossible - do the homework and you can learn about it. If 
 it's handed to
  you on a platter then what's the point?
 
 well fist of all your putting infornation out there that's not easily
 accesable so it's more practlicle for people who have a 
 genuin interest and
 curiosity about the music to learn about Detroit techno.
 Your also archiving an important part of history in a 
 convieniant package
 for future refrence.

So what do you want them to do then? everybody has a website nowadays how
can information be more  easier to get???


  I think it's more rewarding to
  teach myself by reading books, listening to DJ sets, 
 randomly listening to
  records in a store, digging through old magazines, etc.
 
 certain aspects of that can be rewarding but it's mostly a 
 hastle and very
 time consuming.

Go and buy Britney Spears if you want easy-to-get music

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
DISCLAIMER

De gemeente Almelo aanvaardt voor haar medewerkers geen enkele
aansprakelijkheid voor eventueel onjuist, onrechtmatig of 
ontoelaatbaar geacht gebruik van e-mail (inclusief bijlagen).

Dit e-mail bericht is door de gemeente Almelo gecontroleerd op
de aanwezigheid van eventuele virussen. Wij kunnen echter geen
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vrij zijn. Het is daarom verstandig uw binnenkomende e-mail 
berichten zelf op de mogelijke aanwezigheid van virussen 
te controleren.
--

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Cyclone Wehner]

What I find hard to get is the musical elitism.

I can understand if Detroit techno fans don't listen to DJ Sammy, but...

The stereotypical fan likes electro, villifies electroclash, outright, hates
pop, hates RB, hates anything in the charts, maybe likes some jazz...

Personally I think this has alienated people from getting into this music.

You know, it's OK to like a Britney song, ya know, and like Richie Hawtin.

Also I do distinctly recall that Kraftwerk had a top 40 hit once with The
Model.

We all have our prejudices, but there seems to be some secret code about
what is OK to like and what isn't.

My favourite comment was from someone who said they loved Moodymann but
hated the gospel influence in his music. Say what?

You don't find this purism among the actual producers, though.



 Inbox Message 

 From:  techno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history
 Date:  12/11/2002 10:20:27
 To:  313@hyperreal.org

 on 11/11/02 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 that was my point about elitist objecting over this idea.

 For many people it's a job - and that is what it takes to stay on top. It's
 not elitist, it's survival in a crowded world.

 If information on old and obsolete techno records is putting people out of
 business maybe they should consider a career
 change.

 regarding the whole section above:
 I don't understand. On one hand you're talking about having information put
 out there so that it's easier to find out about and those with genuine
 interest/curiosity about the music will learn about it.
 But then when you say that teaching yourself by reading about it, listening
 to DJ sets, randomly listening to old records and digging through old
 magazines is a hastle and very time consuming.
 Who is the one with more genuine interest? The person who, without a
 one-stop shopping place for all things techno, goes out and finds out for
 themselves, dedicates time and money and goes through the hassle - or-
 the person who wants the quick and easy fix of finding everything in one
 place?

 I like the more practical approach of acquiring information.
 People would just have greater understanding of the artist and labels that
 have contributed to the Detroit techno genre.

 The information I have in my head and the records I have are more important
 to me *because* I've spent sh*t loads of my time digging it all up,
 searching it out, and going through the hassle of it all.
 Sounds like you want an easy answer.


 It's only information what you do with it is what's important.
 Besides we live in the 21st Century I like the concept of new technology
 making old methods obsolete.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[DJ Entropy]

I like Ritchie Hawtin and Happy Hardcore at the same time, imagine that.

Both are cheesy and stupid, yet genius, in their own ways.

Music is music, and it all doesnt have to serve purpose, and thats *ok*


:)



11/12/2002 7:00:04 AM, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What I find hard to get is the musical elitism.

I can understand if Detroit techno fans don't listen to DJ Sammy, but...

The stereotypical fan likes electro, villifies electroclash, outright, hates
pop, hates RB, hates anything in the charts, maybe likes some jazz...

Personally I think this has alienated people from getting into this music.

You know, it's OK to like a Britney song, ya know, and like Richie Hawtin.

Also I do distinctly recall that Kraftwerk had a top 40 hit once with The
Model.

We all have our prejudices, but there seems to be some secret code about
what is OK to like and what isn't.

My favourite comment was from someone who said they loved Moodymann but
hated the gospel influence in his music. Say what?

You don't find this purism among the actual producers, though.



 Inbox Message 

 From:  techno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history
 Date:  12/11/2002 10:20:27
 To:  313@hyperreal.org

 on 11/11/02 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 that was my point about elitist objecting over this idea.

 For many people it's a job - and that is what it takes to stay on top. It's
 not elitist, it's survival in a crowded world.

 If information on old and obsolete techno records is putting people out of
 business maybe they should consider a career
 change.

 regarding the whole section above:
 I don't understand. On one hand you're talking about having information put
 out there so that it's easier to find out about and those with genuine
 interest/curiosity about the music will learn about it.
 But then when you say that teaching yourself by reading about it, listening
 to DJ sets, randomly listening to old records and digging through old
 magazines is a hastle and very time consuming.
 Who is the one with more genuine interest? The person who, without a
 one-stop shopping place for all things techno, goes out and finds out for
 themselves, dedicates time and money and goes through the hassle - or-
 the person who wants the quick and easy fix of finding everything in one
 place?

 I like the more practical approach of acquiring information.
 People would just have greater understanding of the artist and labels that
 have contributed to the Detroit techno genre.

 The information I have in my head and the records I have are more important
 to me *because* I've spent sh*t loads of my time digging it all up,
 searching it out, and going through the hassle of it all.
 Sounds like you want an easy answer.


 It's only information what you do with it is what's important.
 Besides we live in the 21st Century I like the concept of new technology
 making old methods obsolete.


---
-Ian Entropy
(bhpc, happy vibe rec, new sample revolution, n.e. hardcore, boston)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.djentropy.com

Soulseek: djentropy
AIM: DJEntropy
WinMX: djentropy422

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[DJ Entropy]

11/12/2002 7:17:02 AM, DJ Entropy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I like Ritchie Hawtin and Happy Hardcore at the same time, imagine that.

Both are cheesy and stupid, yet genius, in their own ways.

Music is music, and it all doesnt have to serve purpose, and thats *ok*

Oops, I meant to say:

Music is music, and it all doesnt have to serve the *SAME purpose*, and thats 
*ok*















:)



11/12/2002 7:00:04 AM, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What I find hard to get is the musical elitism.

I can understand if Detroit techno fans don't listen to DJ Sammy, but...

The stereotypical fan likes electro, villifies electroclash, outright, hates
pop, hates RB, hates anything in the charts, maybe likes some jazz...

Personally I think this has alienated people from getting into this music.

You know, it's OK to like a Britney song, ya know, and like Richie Hawtin.

Also I do distinctly recall that Kraftwerk had a top 40 hit once with The
Model.

We all have our prejudices, but there seems to be some secret code about
what is OK to like and what isn't.

My favourite comment was from someone who said they loved Moodymann but
hated the gospel influence in his music. Say what?

You don't find this purism among the actual producers, though.



 Inbox Message 

 From:  techno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history
 Date:  12/11/2002 10:20:27
 To:  313@hyperreal.org

 on 11/11/02 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 that was my point about elitist objecting over this idea.

 For many people it's a job - and that is what it takes to stay on top. It's
 not elitist, it's survival in a crowded world.

 If information on old and obsolete techno records is putting people out of
 business maybe they should consider a career
 change.

 regarding the whole section above:
 I don't understand. On one hand you're talking about having information put
 out there so that it's easier to find out about and those with genuine
 interest/curiosity about the music will learn about it.
 But then when you say that teaching yourself by reading about it, listening
 to DJ sets, randomly listening to old records and digging through old
 magazines is a hastle and very time consuming.
 Who is the one with more genuine interest? The person who, without a
 one-stop shopping place for all things techno, goes out and finds out for
 themselves, dedicates time and money and goes through the hassle - or-
 the person who wants the quick and easy fix of finding everything in one
 place?

 I like the more practical approach of acquiring information.
 People would just have greater understanding of the artist and labels that
 have contributed to the Detroit techno genre.

 The information I have in my head and the records I have are more important
 to me *because* I've spent sh*t loads of my time digging it all up,
 searching it out, and going through the hassle of it all.
 Sounds like you want an easy answer.


 It's only information what you do with it is what's important.
 Besides we live in the 21st Century I like the concept of new technology
 making old methods obsolete.


---
-Ian Entropy
(bhpc, happy vibe rec, new sample revolution, n.e. hardcore, boston)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.djentropy.com

Soulseek: djentropy
AIM: DJEntropy
WinMX: djentropy422






---
-Ian Entropy
(bhpc, happy vibe rec, new sample revolution, n.e. hardcore, boston)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.djentropy.com

Soulseek: djentropy
AIM: DJEntropy
WinMX: djentropy422

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Cyclone Wehner]

Actually I think that was off too.

Hey, don't diss me now Em.

You forget that most hip-hop headz hate techno, it's like Detroit techno
types hate electroclash or punks hating disco. It's THE CODE.



  Inbox Message 

 From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  12/11/2002 2:48:16
 To:  Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC:  313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org


He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-techno' just that he
 never got into it.

 So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens to techno? That
 to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal taste.

 Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny line and a hot
 tune.

 MEK

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Cyclone Wehner]

Yes, he is doing more production.

He explained that kinda in a recent interview - was it Vibe?

In future he wants to be less in the spotlight as a rapper and eventually do
more production. He did a song Renegade on Jay-Z's The Blueprint. He did a
song on Xzibit's album. He has produced some beats on 8 Mile. His style is
gothic gritty hip-hop. I guess there's a Detroit style emerging, I hear the
same kind of style of the Promatic album.

    Inbox Message 

 From:  logic7 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  RE: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  12/11/2002 2:18:50
 To:  '[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org' 313@hyperreal.org

 He's been doing some production since The Marshall Mathers LP. Dre is
 usually behind the stuff that hits the radio (he's the executive producer
 on the 3 albums Em did on Aftermath). The Slim Shady LP was produced
 almost entirely by The Bass Brothers, with the exception of the radio cuts.
 The Eminem Show has a lot more of his own production on it. I'm not sure
 who produced Em's first album, Infinite, but I think I remember hearing
 that it was The Bass Brothers.

 -Original Message-
 From: Darren Longton (Marketing) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:58 AM
 To: 313 Detroit
 Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
 were really good.

 Did he actually DO the production? I've always heard that DRE did all the
 beats...?

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Dan Sicko]

On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 07:00 AM, Cyclone Wehner wrote:


What I find hard to get is the musical elitism.



I think this comes across much more amplified than it really is, 
especially on a mailing list dedicated (on whatever sliding scale you 
think exists here) to Detroit techno.


-d

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Sean Creen]

You forget that most hip-hop headz hate techno,

What are you basing that comment on? I'm not having a pop at you, its just
that I've never found that to be the case at all!

Sean.

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[logic7]

... Especially when I've seen WuTang, EPMD, and Run DMC headlining at raves
all over.

-Original Message-
From: Sean Creen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:49 AM
To: Cyclone Wehner; 313 Detroit
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile



You forget that most hip-hop headz hate techno,

What are you basing that comment on? I'm not having a pop at you, its just
that I've never found that to be the case at all!

Sean.

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Cyclone Wehner]

Almost 10 years of covering hip-hop, numerous run-ins and debates with 
'headz', countless interviews - including with Busta Rhymes who said
something like 'don't call my s***t techno!'.
I have even asked them specifically, what do you think of styles like...
A lot of it is that they don't know anything about the music.
The only big name I have found with any knowledge of techno is Chad Hugo of
The Neptunes.
Hip-hop acts may play raves but they do it as a gig.
I know hip-hop kids like Voiteck here who moved into techno and copped flak
for 'betraying' hip-hop.
I am sure when Eminem went along to the Wizard comeback in Detroit
remembering Mills for playing hip-hop, and then when he heard the dreaded
techno, he bounced.
I know 'headz' whose views on techno are like Eminem's.
It's the same way in which punks hated on disco - and it's often the teen
male fans who are like that.
I know some kids who even disapprove of DJ Craze playing drum 'n' bass.
I am not talking about general hip-hop fans, I am talking 'Headz'.

You forget that most hip-hop headz hate techno,

 What are you basing that comment on? I'm not having a pop at you, its just
 that I've never found that to be the case at all!

 Sean.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

on 11/12/02 2:23 AM, Jongsma, K.J. at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So what do you want them to do then? everybody has a website nowadays how
 can information be more  easier to get???

Good question, Yes you can get a great deal of information from the Internet
and yes some labels like +8 do a great job
cataloging all their releases but is this the case for all Detroit techno
artist and labels?
Some of the more obscure artist and labels?
Is doing a search on the internet as convenient as having most of the
information archived on DVD?
I'm only throwing out a suggestion for a DVD archive because I think it
would be a good idea and very beneficial for
people wanting to learn more about Detroit techno.
The person who was recently asking about the rings of saturn and who did
not get his question answered is a
prime 
example of a person who would benefit form this type of archive, thousands
of questions like that could be answered on
DVD.

 Go and buy Britney Spears if you want easy-to-get music

well buying music is another matter, anyone with a credit card should have
no problem buying latest underground music.

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Ian Dinsmor]

Here's a curve ball for the list.

I was working the other night, and in walks Jay Dee, only to ask for
Herbert's Bodily Functions LP.

Behold, the paths of hip hop and techno cross in ways.


ID

 From: Sean Creen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:48:58 -
 To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313 Detroit
 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile
 
 
 You forget that most hip-hop headz hate techno,
 
 What are you basing that comment on? I'm not having a pop at you, its just
 that I've never found that to be the case at all!
 
 Sean.
 

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Darren Longton (Marketing)]

Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.

Did he actually DO the production?  I've always heard that DRE did all the 
beats...?


-Original Message-
From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:17 AM
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he elaborates and says he 
never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit radio, etc, so he
knows what he's talking about. He says it's his personal taste - not that
he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills, but...
Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.


 Inbox Message 

 From:  T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  09/11/2002 12:24:33
 To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org

 yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he
 even knows that he is not dissing techno...


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Ja'Maul Redmond]

Actually he's writing some of his own stuff now. The movie gives him credit
for original music or score or something like that. 

Anyway, I liked the movie and I agree with the movie critics it's the 2000's
version of Purple Rain. I didn't read this reference until after I saw the
movie but during the whole movie my girlfriend and I were saying that it
reminds us of purple rain.


Ja'Maul Redmond

PERKINS  WILL
1130 East Third Street, Suite 200 
Charlotte, North Carolina 28204

(704) 343-9900 
(704) 343-4935 ext.202(direct) 
(704) 343- (fax) 
jamaul.redmond mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]@perkinswill.com 
http://www.perkinswill.com/ 

 


-Original Message-
From: Darren Longton (Marketing) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:58 AM
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.

Did he actually DO the production?  I've always heard that DRE did all the
beats...?


-Original Message-
From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:17 AM
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he elaborates and says he 
never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit radio, etc, so he
knows what he's talking about. He says it's his personal taste - not that
he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills, but...
Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.


 Inbox Message 

 From:  T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  09/11/2002 12:24:33
 To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org

 yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he
 even knows that he is not dissing techno...


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[logic7]

He's been doing some production since The Marshall Mathers LP. Dre is
usually behind the stuff that hits the radio (he's the executive producer
on the 3 albums Em did on Aftermath). The Slim Shady LP was produced
almost entirely by The Bass Brothers, with the exception of the radio cuts.
The Eminem Show has a lot more of his own production on it. I'm not sure
who produced Em's first album, Infinite, but I think I remember hearing
that it was The Bass Brothers.

-Original Message-
From: Darren Longton (Marketing) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:58 AM
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.

Did he actually DO the production?  I've always heard that DRE did all the
beats...?

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny line and a hot
tune.

MEK

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Robert Taylor]

I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much about what Eminem thinks
about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't ponder over whether
Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile



He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny line and a hot
tune.

MEK



Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

And maybe someone can answer my original question?

I'm looking for books that cover the history of Detroit music beyond (but
not excluding) techno -

maybe Dancing in the Streets?  Any others?

elitists need not answer  ;)

MEK




   
  Dan Sicko 
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   marc christensen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
  .orgcc:   techno [EMAIL 
PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
   Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile - 
Detroit music history  
  11/09/02 01:57 PM 
   

   

   




Can we move this discussion to the 313-elite mailing list please?

I believe the server forwards messages on a wireless network inside
Lafayette Coney Island.

-d

On Saturday, November 9, 2002, at 01:21 PM, marc christensen wrote:

 dear techno --

 It's nice to see you can couple a good, fresh insight to a troll.
 Because you're right -- the old-school elitism of the NW side GQ
 cliques was very palpable, and has been documented well in interview
 sources.

 Your reminder even makes the self-justifying marginalization of
 disagreement implicit in your original post much more bearable.

 But doesn't this also mean it would be more Detroit techno of us not
 only to disagree, but also to withhold more information?

 If so, I will continue to do so, and shut up now.
 -marc


 At 6:46 PM -0600 11/8/02, techno wrote:
 Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.

 At 8:38 PM -0500 11/8/02, Lee Herrington IV wrote:
   does the elitist post to this list?

 At 11:05 AM -0600 11/9/02, techno wrote:
 Yes and they do not always share information.
 Elitism has always been a part of Detroit techno and underground
 dance music
 culture a social and political aspect to the
 music.

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Ian]

Amen to that.

Im also a little puzzled that no one has mentioned the 
attention that this movie is bringing to the city. Yeah, 
people are crying that it makes the city look like a prison.
But as someone who has seen the film, I thought Detroit 
looked like Detroit, and it was actually kind of cool sitting 
in a major theater going, Wow, I know where that is...
And the fact that he has said in interviews that his purpose 
in the movie was to show the world the real Detroit 
transcends whatever his opinion on techno is. 

ID


 Original message 
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:50:38 -
From: Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile  
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Michael.Elliot-
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org

I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much about 
what Eminem thinks
about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't ponder 
over whether
Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile



He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-
techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens 
to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal 
taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny 
line and a hot
tune.

MEK



Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do 
not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation 
unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are 
confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they 
are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[FC2 Richards]

I wonder if Iggy Pop likes Techno...he's not your conventional rocker
either, though...

-Original Message-
From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 6:51 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much about what Eminem thinks
about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't ponder over whether
Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile



He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny line and a hot
tune.

MEK



Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Robert Taylor]

He did something vaguely electronic with Death In Vegas a few years ago -
Ayesha I think it was called - the best track on their Contino Sessions
album at any rate.

-Original Message-
From: FC2 Richards [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:59 PM
To: 'Robert Taylor'
Cc: '313@hyperreal.org'
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


I wonder if Iggy Pop likes Techno...he's not your conventional rocker
either, though...

-Original Message-
From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 6:51 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much about what Eminem thinks
about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't ponder over whether
Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile



He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny line and a hot
tune.

MEK



Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Darren Longton (Marketing)]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

-Original Message-
From: Ian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:56 AM
To: Robert Taylor
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Cyclone Wehner; 313 Detroit
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile


Amen to that.

Im also a little puzzled that no one has mentioned the 
attention that this movie is bringing to the city. Yeah, 
people are crying that it makes the city look like a prison.
But as someone who has seen the film, I thought Detroit 
looked like Detroit, and it was actually kind of cool sitting 
in a major theater going, Wow, I know where that is...
And the fact that he has said in interviews that his purpose 
in the movie was to show the world the real Detroit 
transcends whatever his opinion on techno is. 

ID


 Original message 
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:50:38 -
From: Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile  
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Michael.Elliot-
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org

I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much about 
what Eminem thinks
about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't ponder 
over whether
Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile



He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-
techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens 
to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal 
taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny 
line and a hot
tune.

MEK



Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do 
not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation 
unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are 
confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they 
are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

In my previous post the word elitist was referring to the collector
types who are not very forthcoming about information on rare and limited
releases.

That's the way it has always been in the world of DJs and dance music -
everyone wants that tune/record that nobody else has. I wouldn't expect
this list to be any different.

When it comes to techno there seems to be a gray area with records falling
into obscurity especially from the very late 80's to early 90's.


True - it sometimes is an era that isn't easily discovered but it's not
impossible - do the homework and you can learn about it. If it's handed to
you on a platter then what's the point? I think it's more rewarding to
teach myself by reading books, listening to DJ sets, randomly listening to
records in a store, digging through old magazines, etc.

MEK






   
  techno
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   313@hyperreal.org   

  gy.net  cc:  
   
   Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile - 
Detroit music history  
  11/10/02 01:33 AM 
   

   

   




In my previous post the word elitist was referring to the collector types
who are not very forthcoming about information on
rare and
limited releases.
I was suggesting something like a DVD archive for listing singles, promos,
remixes, un-released tracks, ect. from well known
to the lesser know Detroit artist and labels.
When it comes to techno there seems to be a gray area with records falling
into obscurity especially from the very late 80's to
early 90's.
To give you example sometimes when going through old dance music magazines
like Art Payne's column in Streetsounds magazine I'll see a review of a
record that I never
knew existed or maybe mention of a short lived Detroit techno label.

Lets take this review by Josh Tearnan, The Vibe Magazine:

Images - The Keys to Heaven/ It's Just a Groove (Siren Records)

With the people producing this record, it's bound to be big Santonio (of
Resses  Santonio fame) Art Forest (remixer of Inner City), and Brian Hall.
The A side, featuring vocals by Mischivous, has three mixes. The best is
the
club mix; it's classic inner city style, complete with backtracked beats
and
pumpin' keyboards. There are even samples from Martin Luther King's famous
speech.
The B side is also a prime cut. The only problem with this record is
deciding which cut is better.

on 11/9/02 12:21 PM, marc christensen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 dear techno --

 It's nice to see you can couple a good, fresh insight to a troll.
 Because you're right -- the old-school elitism of the NW side GQ
 cliques was very palpable, and has been documented well in interview
 sources.

 Your reminder even makes the self-justifying marginalization of
 disagreement implicit in your original post much more bearable.

 But doesn't this also mean it would be more Detroit techno of us
 not only to disagree, but also to withhold more information?

 If so, I will continue to do so, and shut up now.
 -marc


 At 6:46 PM -0600 11/8/02, techno wrote:
 Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.

 At 8:38 PM -0500 11/8/02, Lee Herrington IV wrote:
 does the elitist post to this list?

 At 11:05 AM -0600 11/9/02, techno wrote:
 Yes and they do not always share information.
 Elitism has always been a part of Detroit techno and underground dance
music
 culture a social and political aspect to the
 music.

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[T.J.Johnson]

Well, someone early-on mentioned that it is a great
movie even though he disses techno.  Then someone else
mentioned that he didn't dis techno, but he did dis
Moby.  That's how the discussion came about...


On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Ian wrote:

 
 Amen to that.
 
 Im also a little puzzled that no one has mentioned
the 
 attention that this movie is bringing to the city.
 Yeah, 
 people are crying that it makes the city look like a
 prison.
 But as someone who has seen the film, I thought
Detroit 
 looked like Detroit, and it was actually kind of cool
 sitting 
 in a major theater going, Wow, I know where that
is...
 And the fact that he has said in interviews that his
 purpose 
 in the movie was to show the world the real Detroit 
 transcends whatever his opinion on techno is. 
 
 ID
 
 
  Original message 
 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:50:38 -
 From: Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile  
 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
 Michael.Elliot-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cyclone Wehner
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
 
 I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much
 about 
 what Eminem thinks
 about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't
 ponder 
 over whether
 Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
 To: Cyclone Wehner
 Cc: 313 Detroit
 Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
 
 
 
 He says it's his personal taste - not that he's
'anti-
 techno' just that he
 never got into it.
 
 So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody
 listens 
 to techno? That
 to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his
 personal 
 taste.
 
 Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a
 funny 
 line and a hot
 tune.
 
 MEK
 
 
 
 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author
 and do 
 not necessarily
 represent those of Channel Four Television
Corporation 
 unless specifically
 stated.  This email and any files transmitted are 
 confidential and intended
 solely for the use of the individual or entity to
 which they 
 are addressed.
 If you have received this email in error, please
notify
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

Well - maybe because they don't have as much influence on youngsters as
Eminem does. How many people might actually be just getting in to techno
but stop because he has spoken, or might have been open to it until now. I
don't recall Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer ever publicly dismissing techno
in a song either - at least one that get national airplay.

not that concerned really
MEK




   
  Robert Taylor 
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
[EMAIL PROTECTED],  
  4.co.uk  Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] 
   cc:   313 Detroit 
313@hyperreal.org   
  11/11/02 09:50 AMSubject:  RE: (313) 8-Mile   
   

   

   




I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much about what Eminem
thinks
about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't ponder over whether
Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile



He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny line and a hot
tune.

MEK



Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[Robert Taylor]

If they stop listening to techno just because some loudmouth rapper tells
them, then they're not really feeling it are they? Good riddance to them
IMHO. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:32 PM
To: Robert Taylor
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile



Well - maybe because they don't have as much influence on youngsters as
Eminem does. How many people might actually be just getting in to techno
but stop because he has spoken, or might have been open to it until now. I
don't recall Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer ever publicly dismissing techno
in a song either - at least one that get national airplay.

not that concerned really
MEK



 

  Robert Taylor

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED],

  4.co.uk  Cyclone Wehner
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   cc:   313 Detroit
313@hyperreal.org   
  11/11/02 09:50 AMSubject:  RE: (313) 8-Mile

 

 





I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much about what Eminem
thinks
about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't ponder over whether
Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile



He says it's his personal taste - not that he's 'anti-techno' just that he
never got into it.

So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody listens to techno? That
to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his personal taste.

Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a funny line and a hot
tune.

MEK



Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]








Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically
stated.  This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error, please notify
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[T.J.Johnson]

Yeah!  Those damn 10-year-olds shouldn't be THAT
impressionable anyways!  If they don't have soul, fxck
'em!  ;)

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Robert Taylor wrote:

 
 If they stop listening to techno just because some
 loudmouth rapper tells
 them, then they're not really feeling it are they?
Good
 riddance to them
 IMHO. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:32 PM
 To: Robert Taylor
 Cc: 313 Detroit
 Subject: RE: (313) 8-Mile
 
 
 
 Well - maybe because they don't have as much influence
 on youngsters as
 Eminem does. How many people might actually be just
 getting in to techno
 but stop because he has spoken, or might have been
open
 to it until now. I
 don't recall Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer ever
publicly
 dismissing techno
 in a song either - at least one that get national
 airplay.
 
 not that concerned really
 MEK
 
 
 
  
 
   Robert Taylor
 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
 '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
 [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 
   4.co.uk 
Cyclone
 Wehner
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 
 
cc:   
 
  313 Detroit
 313@hyperreal.org  
 
   
   11/11/02 09:50 AM   
Subject:
  RE: (313) 8-Mile
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 I am a little puzzled about why 313ers care so much
 about what Eminem
 thinks
 about techno. He's from Detroit, yeah, but we don't
 ponder over whether
 Alice Cooper or Wayne Kramer dig techno, do we?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:48 PM
 To: Cyclone Wehner
 Cc: 313 Detroit
 Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
 
 
 
 He says it's his personal taste - not that he's
 'anti-techno' just that he
 never got into it.
 
 So why the perceivably universal diss that nobody
 listens to techno? That
 to me sounds like he's stating something beyond his
 personal taste.
 
 Just playing the devil's advocate - I think it's a
 funny line and a hot
 tune.
 
 MEK
 
 
 
 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author
 and do not necessarily
 represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation
 unless specifically
 stated.  This email and any files transmitted are
 confidential and intended
 solely for the use of the individual or entity to
which
 they are addressed.
 If you have received this email in error, please
notify
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author
 and do not necessarily
 represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation
 unless specifically
 stated.  This email and any files transmitted are
 confidential and intended
 solely for the use of the individual or entity to
which
 they are addressed.
 If you have received this email in error, please
notify
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

on 11/11/02 10:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 In my previous post the word elitist was referring to the collector
 types who are not very forthcoming about information on rare and limited
 releases.
 
 That's the way it has always been in the world of DJs and dance music -
 everyone wants that tune/record that nobody else has. I wouldn't expect
 this list to be any different.

that was my point about elitist objecting over this idea.

 When it comes to techno there seems to be a gray area with records falling
 into obscurity especially from the very late 80's to early 90's.
 
 
 True - it sometimes is an era that isn't easily discovered but it's not
 impossible - do the homework and you can learn about it. If it's handed to
 you on a platter then what's the point?

well fist of all your putting infornation out there that's not easily
accesable so it's more practlicle for people who have a genuin interest and
curiosity about the music to learn about Detroit techno.
Your also archiving an important part of history in a convieniant package
for future refrence.

 I think it's more rewarding to
 teach myself by reading books, listening to DJ sets, randomly listening to
 records in a store, digging through old magazines, etc.

certain aspects of that can be rewarding but it's mostly a hastle and very
time consuming.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

That's the way it has always been...
that was my point about elitist objecting over this idea.

For many people it's a job - and that is what it takes to stay on top. It's
not elitist, it's survival in a crowded world.

+

 When it comes to techno there seems to be a gray area with records
falling
 into obscurity especially from the very late 80's to early 90's.


 True - it sometimes is an era that isn't easily discovered but it's not
 impossible - do the homework and you can learn about it. If it's handed
to
 you on a platter then what's the point?

well fist of all your putting infornation out there that's not easily
accesable so it's more practlicle for people who have a genuin interest and
curiosity about the music to learn about Detroit techno.
Your also archiving an important part of history in a convieniant package
for future refrence.

 I think it's more rewarding to
 teach myself by reading books, listening to DJ sets, randomly listening
to
 records in a store, digging through old magazines, etc.

certain aspects of that can be rewarding but it's mostly a hastle and very
time consuming.


regarding the whole section above:
I don't understand. On one hand you're talking about having information put
out there so that it's easier to find out about and those with genuine
interest/curiosity about the music will learn about it.
But then when you say that teaching yourself by reading about it, listening
to DJ sets, randomly listening to old records and digging through old
magazines is a hastle and very time consuming.
Who is the one with more genuine interest? The person who, without a
one-stop shopping place for all things techno, goes out and finds out for
themselves, dedicates time and money and goes through the hassle - or-
the person who wants the quick and easy fix of finding everything in one
place?
The information I have in my head and the records I have are more important
to me *because* I've spent sh*t loads of my time digging it all up,
searching it out, and going through the hassle of it all.
Sounds like you want an easy answer.

MEK

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

on 11/11/02 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 that was my point about elitist objecting over this idea.
 
 For many people it's a job - and that is what it takes to stay on top. It's
 not elitist, it's survival in a crowded world.

If information on old and obsolete techno records is putting people out of
business maybe they should consider a career
change.

 regarding the whole section above:
 I don't understand. On one hand you're talking about having information put
 out there so that it's easier to find out about and those with genuine
 interest/curiosity about the music will learn about it.
 But then when you say that teaching yourself by reading about it, listening
 to DJ sets, randomly listening to old records and digging through old
 magazines is a hastle and very time consuming.
 Who is the one with more genuine interest? The person who, without a
 one-stop shopping place for all things techno, goes out and finds out for
 themselves, dedicates time and money and goes through the hassle - or-
 the person who wants the quick and easy fix of finding everything in one
 place?

I like the more practical approach of acquiring information.
People would just have greater understanding of the artist and labels that
have contributed to the Detroit techno genre.

 The information I have in my head and the records I have are more important
 to me *because* I've spent sh*t loads of my time digging it all up,
 searching it out, and going through the hassle of it all.
 Sounds like you want an easy answer.
 

It's only information what you do with it is what's important.
Besides we live in the 21st Century I like the concept of new technology
making old methods obsolete.

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Fred Heutte]

I also saw it on opening night here in Portland.  Only one screen
downtown, one at the Lloyd Center, and about six in the suburbs,
so you can see where the marketing is oriented :)

It was about 80% full at 10 pm at the downtown show, and the crowd
was pretty quiet, typical for Portland.  A *lot* of laughs for the
Sweet Home Alabama scene though.  I was almost certainly the oldest
viewer in the audience.

Mostly it's really good, although I wouldn't say it's a great movie.
The one scene that seemed contrived was the fight in the JLB studio.

I'm not a fan of Eminem at all, but he showed me something in this
movie.  And so did the writer and director and cinematographer.  This 
is a movie about Detroit, and it is a movie about *black* Detroit, 
but I didn't feel any of the distancing and caricature that a mass-market 
movie would be expected to take.  This Detroit feels real, and the suburbs 
are just a presence offstage, and the class complexities are constantly 
present. 

My favorite scene -- it's contrived too but it really works -- is the 
impromptu three-way a capella battle outside the stamping plant.  

I don't think this story could have been made in LA or on the east coast 
-- too many preconceptions about gangstas and what hip hop supposedly 
is about.  Detroit is a blank canvas to the rest of the country, and now 
the rest of the country will see, at least one bit of, what has happened 
to Detroit and implicitly how we all let that happen.  That comes down
in one key scene that I'll leave out because it would be a spoiler.

This is a movie where even the bad guys are allowed to have some depth, 
and in the end they really aren't so different from the good guys.  Which 
kind of makes sense.

And while Eminem is the leading focus of the movie, and it's true a
white guy like that is the only one who could get this kind of media
buildup (there's even a line in the script that says that right up 
front), that seemed OK.  But I'm waiting for the movie that tells the 
story of how, say, Kevin Saunderson made his way up from the anonymous 
suburbs to rock the world.

But for now, on 8 Mile, my verdict is: respect.  Worth the time and the 
dime even if you don't like Eminem's previous work, which generally 
I don't.

Fred

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Sakari Karipuro]

Dan Sicko wrote on Sat, 9 Nov 2002 about following:

 Can we move this discussion to the 313-elite mailing list please?

hey, IT'S NOT FAIR, i know you gotta have 313-ELITE -header set as 
well as you have to be able to fart NO UFO's to get on _that_ list!

ok jus kiddin :)

in reality, elitism is part of all cultures. you can't avoid it. just 
live with it.

i'm looking forward to see the movie.

for some reason i feel like quoting model 500 here:

from ocean to ocean there will be shining new world is approaching 
nothing remains the same can you imagine a world where all men will be 
free, you be you and i'll be me to be free to be free to be free it all 
seems like a dream far away possibility but i tell you my friend it's 
closer than you think



sakke - everybody dance, let's party together c'mon clap your hands!
-- 
all systems are go

RE: (313) 8-Mile

[FC2 Richards]

Eminem doesn't talk about raves for no reason.  He has been there, and he is
aware.  Now that he is famous he plays more raves in detroit then he
visits...his preference of drugs over music is a different story.  

jeff

-Original Message-
From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 1:49 AM
To: T.J.Johnson
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, T.J.Johnson wrote:

 techno has never been all over Detroit radio  it used
 to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was
 braodcasting live but that's about it

no.  it DID used to be all over detroit radio.  go back about 17 years.


peace
lks

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

In my previous post the word elitist was referring to the collector types
who are not very forthcoming about information on
rare and 
limited releases.
I was suggesting something like a DVD archive for listing singles, promos,
remixes, un-released tracks, ect. from well known
to the lesser know Detroit artist and labels.
When it comes to techno there seems to be a gray area with records falling
into obscurity especially from the very late 80's to
early 90's.
To give you example sometimes when going through old dance music magazines
like Art Payne's column in Streetsounds magazine I'll see a review of a
record that I never
knew existed or maybe mention of a short lived Detroit techno label.

Lets take this review by Josh Tearnan, The Vibe Magazine:

Images - The Keys to Heaven/ It's Just a Groove (Siren Records)

With the people producing this record, it's bound to be big Santonio (of
Resses  Santonio fame) Art Forest (remixer of Inner City), and Brian Hall.
The A side, featuring vocals by Mischivous, has three mixes. The best is the
club mix; it's classic inner city style, complete with backtracked beats and
pumpin' keyboards. There are even samples from Martin Luther King's famous
speech.
The B side is also a prime cut. The only problem with this record is
deciding which cut is better.

on 11/9/02 12:21 PM, marc christensen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 dear techno --
 
 It's nice to see you can couple a good, fresh insight to a troll.
 Because you're right -- the old-school elitism of the NW side GQ
 cliques was very palpable, and has been documented well in interview
 sources.
 
 Your reminder even makes the self-justifying marginalization of
 disagreement implicit in your original post much more bearable.
 
 But doesn't this also mean it would be more Detroit techno of us
 not only to disagree, but also to withhold more information?
 
 If so, I will continue to do so, and shut up now.
 -marc
 
 
 At 6:46 PM -0600 11/8/02, techno wrote:
 Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.
 
 At 8:38 PM -0500 11/8/02, Lee Herrington IV wrote:
 does the elitist post to this list?
 
 At 11:05 AM -0600 11/9/02, techno wrote:
 Yes and they do not always share information.
 Elitism has always been a part of Detroit techno and underground dance music
 culture a social and political aspect to the
 music.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Kent williams]

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, T.J.Johnson wrote:
 The funny thing is, I've never noticed any elitism in
 the Detroit techno music business until I joined this
 list.  It's interesting how the internet helps shape
 the world...


Well, it's like this: to some extent, the 313 list INVENTED the sort of
over-reverent, concerned-with-absolute-purity, hardcore trainspotter version
of Detroit Techno.  A few journalists got on the list and started spreading
the meme to the hoi polloi. People start seeing their opinions reflected
back at them from magazines and think they got the world on lock.

I mean there's a whole GENRE of music -- IDM -- that is NAMED after a mailing
list.  And, I might add, the mailing list is 95% of the worldwide market for
the music. Does that make mailing lists influential, or just just a
closed feedback loop?

And lest we forget, the whole futuristic utopian idea of techno was invented
by Derrick May and Juan Atkins egging on British journalists some time after
they started making the music.  The whole problem with journalists is
they're writers, and they're always confusing an attractive narrative
for reality.

I don't have to worry about being an elitist -- At any party, I'm the large
guy with the beer gut and thick glasses, that everyone thinks is a cop or
someone's dad.  If I'm elite, I doubt people want to be quite this
elite.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

I would like to see a comprehensive Detroit techno and Chicago house
chronology of the music year by year.
It may be more practical and cost effective to do something like this on a
digital medium like CD-ROM or DVD since you
would be covering a lot of ground with artist and record label
discography's.
Actually DVD would be ideal for this since you have the options of audio and
video and it can store a vast amount of
information.
Techno Rebels is a good book going over the history and origins of the music
but it really doesn't delve into the more
obscure Detroit techno records and labels that should not be excluded from
history.
Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.

on 11/8/02 5:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 actually - that's a really nice website. gives credit and some history to
 the trailblazers of Detroit music in #3 which brings me to the topic of
 books about the very same-
 
 to you Detroiters and Detroit historians a question -
 
 which books give the best history of Detroit music?
 
 Whether it be encyclopedia style or a more narrated story
 what I really love to see in a book is a discography in the back and maybe
 even eras broken down - ala Dan's Techno Rebels
 
 MEK

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[T.J.Johnson]

yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he
even knows that he is not dissing techno...


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 ha..  isn't it an eminem song that says something
about
 'no one listens 
 to techno anyway'?
 
 On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 02:20 PM, Patrick
 Wacher wrote:
 
  Check out the site for Eminem's film...
 a
href=http://mail.peoplepc.com/jump/http://www.8-mile.com;http://www.8-mile.com/a/
 
  It's a Flash based site with plenty of things to see
 and do... If you 
  pull down the map of Detroit and click on #3, you'll
 get a brief 
  history of Detroit Techno! (Moby definately
excluded!
 ;)
 
  Anyway, go have a look around.
 
  Peace,
  Patrick.
  --
  Southern Outpost
  Distributed worldwide via Twilight 76
  a
href=http://mail.peoplepc.com/jump/http://www.southernoutpost.com;http://www.southernoutpost.com/a
  p:+61 412 313 151 f:+ 612 9032 6046
  --
 

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

RE: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Lee Herrington IV]

does the elitist post to this list?

-Original Message-
From: techno [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:46 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history


I would like to see a comprehensive Detroit techno and Chicago house
chronology of the music year by year.
It may be more practical and cost effective to do something like this on a
digital medium like CD-ROM or DVD since you
would be covering a lot of ground with artist and record label
discography's.
Actually DVD would be ideal for this since you have the options of audio and
video and it can store a vast amount of
information.
Techno Rebels is a good book going over the history and origins of the music
but it really doesn't delve into the more
obscure Detroit techno records and labels that should not be excluded from
history.
Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.

on 11/8/02 5:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 actually - that's a really nice website. gives credit and some history to
 the trailblazers of Detroit music in #3 which brings me to the topic of
 books about the very same-

 to you Detroiters and Detroit historians a question -

 which books give the best history of Detroit music?

 Whether it be encyclopedia style or a more narrated story
 what I really love to see in a book is a discography in the back and maybe
 even eras broken down - ala Dan's Techno Rebels

 MEK

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Cyclone Wehner]

I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he elaborates and says he
never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit radio, etc, so he
knows what he's talking about. He says it's his personal taste - not that
he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills, but...
Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.


 Inbox Message 

 From:  T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  09/11/2002 12:24:33
 To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org

 yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he
 even knows that he is not dissing techno...


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[sean deason]

so. I went to see 8Mile yesterday (okay. first showing on opening day. I
know. I'm a geek :^). It's actually a much better movie than I expected it
to be, and it doesnt end with the typical Hollywood ending I was expecting
either. It actually breaks away from the Purple Rain formula hinted at by
the trailers. From the trailers for the movie, 8Mile looked like it would be
a rags to riches slash boy meets girls story, but instead delivers an
artist coming out of his shell and into his own story. Whatever your
feelings about Marshall are, this movie has its moments of brilliance only
when he's on screen doing what he does best: rhyming. I dare anyone not the
cheer him on at the movies finale.

sean


- Original Message -
From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he elaborates and says he
never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit radio, etc, so he
knows what he's talking about. He says it's his personal taste - not that
he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills, but...
Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.


 Inbox Message

 From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date: 09/11/2002 12:24:33
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org

 yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he
 even knows that he is not dissing techno...


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[marc christensen]

that's an excellent thing to read, sean --

the media coverage of 8 Mile, even well beyond Detroit, has been 
really outrageous.  Witness the appearance of Eminem on the cover of 
last Sunday's New York Times Magazine.  The studios couldn't *pay* to 
get that kind of treatment.  And I have to say, the Times article not 
only made me want to see the movie, but my wife, who's not usually 
real interested in **anything** from the hip-hop side of the world, 
wants to go, too.


So it's good to hear a positive review here.  And it's great that the 
plot doesn't get all Hollywood.


cheers,
-marc




so. I went to see 8Mile yesterday (okay. first showing on opening day. I
know. I'm a geek :^). It's actually a much better movie than I expected it
to be, and it doesnt end with the typical Hollywood ending I was expecting
either. It actually breaks away from the Purple Rain formula hinted at by
the trailers. From the trailers for the movie, 8Mile looked like it would be
a rags to riches slash boy meets girls story, but instead delivers an
artist coming out of his shell and into his own story. Whatever your
feelings about Marshall are, this movie has its moments of brilliance only
when he's on screen doing what he does best: rhyming. I dare anyone not the
cheer him on at the movies finale.

sean


- Original Message -
From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he elaborates and says he
never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit radio, etc, so he
knows what he's talking about. He says it's his personal taste - not that
he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills, but...
Have to give Eminem props for his production, his beats on that soundtrack
were really good.



 Inbox Message

 From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date: 09/11/2002 12:24:33
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org

 yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he

  even knows that he is not dissing techno...
 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[T.J.Johnson]

techno has never been all over Detroit radio  it used
to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was
braodcasting live but that's about it


On Sat, 09 Nov 2002, Cyclone Wehner wrote:

 
 I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he
 elaborates and says he
 never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit
 radio, etc, so he
 knows what he's talking about. He says it's his
 personal taste - not that
 he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
 It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills,
 but...
 Have to give Eminem props for his production, his
beats
 on that soundtrack
 were really good.
 
 
  Inbox Message 
 
  From:  T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
  Date:  09/11/2002 12:24:33
  To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  CC:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
 
  yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if
 he
  even knows that he is not dissing techno...
 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Mxyzptlk]

Well, it has been here and there (e.g., Deep Space, old sets by The Wizard 
and at sundry places on the dial, usually in late-night slots), but it 
certainly has NOT ever been all over the radio. That's a good chunk of the 
reason behind the mystery of techno being an international phenomenon yet 
often an enigma to Detroiters.


jeff


At 08:50 AM 11/9/2002, T.J.Johnson wrote:

techno has never been all over Detroit radio  it used
to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was
braodcasting live but that's about it


On Sat, 09 Nov 2002, Cyclone Wehner wrote:


 I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he
 elaborates and says he
 never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit
 radio, etc,

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[::\)]

88.9 at midnight brave new waves and whatever liz copelands show is.



- Original Message - 
From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


techno has never been all over Detroit radio  it used
to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was
braodcasting live but that's about it


On Sat, 09 Nov 2002, Cyclone Wehner wrote:

 
 I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he
 elaborates and says he
 never liked techno, and remembers it all over Detroit
 radio, etc, so he
 knows what he's talking about. He says it's his
 personal taste - not that
 he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
 It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills,
 but...
 Have to give Eminem props for his production, his
beats
 on that soundtrack
 were really good.
 
 
  Inbox Message 
 
  From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
  Date: 09/11/2002 12:24:33
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
 
  yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if
 he
  even knows that he is not dissing techno...
 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[T.J.Johnson]

right on.  i guess that is what i was getting at in my
original post.  when mr. mathers dissed moby, he wasn't
dissing techno music, but rather commercialized techno
music (eg trip hop, etc)...  that's all...



On Sat, 09 Nov 2002, Mxyzptlk wrote:

 
 Well, it has been here and there (e.g., Deep Space,
old
 sets by The Wizard 
 and at sundry places on the dial, usually in
late-night
 slots), but it 
 certainly has NOT ever been all over the radio. That's
 a good chunk of the 
 reason behind the mystery of techno being an
 international phenomenon yet 
 often an enigma to Detroiters.
 
  
 
  jeff
 
 
 At 08:50 AM 11/9/2002, T.J.Johnson wrote:
 techno has never been all over Detroit radio  it used
 to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was
 braodcasting live but that's about it
 
 
 On Sat, 09 Nov 2002, Cyclone Wehner wrote:
 
  
   I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he
   elaborates and says he
   never liked techno, and remembers it all over
 Detroit
   radio, etc,

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[T.J.Johnson]

ok cool, but it is not all over the radio like on
101.9 105.9 107.9 95.9 and all the other popular
stations.  WHFR rules though!  shoutz!!!


::\) wrote:

 
 88.9 at midnight brave new waves and whatever liz
 copelands show is.
 
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:50 AM
 Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
 
 
 techno has never been all over Detroit radio  it used
 to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was
 braodcasting live but that's about it
 
 
 On Sat, 09 Nov 2002, Cyclone Wehner wrote:
 
  
  I have an interview CD from Universal Music and he
  elaborates and says he
  never liked techno, and remembers it all over
Detroit
  radio, etc, so he
  knows what he's talking about. He says it's his
  personal taste - not that
  he's 'anti-techno' just that he never got into it.
  It's a shame he can't differentiate Moby from Mills,
  but...
  Have to give Eminem props for his production, his
 beats
  on that soundtrack
  were really good.
  
  
   Inbox Message 
  
   From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile
   Date: 09/11/2002 12:24:33
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
  
   yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know
if
  he
   even knows that he is not dissing techno...
  
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 TJJ
 
 ~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~
 
 PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
 a
href=http://mail.peoplepc.com/jump/http://www.peoplepc.com;http://www.peoplepc.com/a

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[sean deason]

also: one notable scene in 8Mile is filmed in the alleyway behind the
Transmat offices in Eastern Market (locals some of you will recognize The
Atlas building from numerous loft parties down there).

sean

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Cyclone Wehner]

Well I can play the damn CD again and painfully transcribe it, but that was
the sum of what he said, that he wasn't feeling techno and he remembered it
all on Detroit radio. He's Eminem, he exaggerates!

:)


 From:  T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: (313) 8-Mile
 Date:  10/11/2002 3:09:16
 To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org

 ok cool, but it is not all over the radio like on
 101.9 105.9 107.9 95.9 and all the other popular
 stations. WHFR rules though! shoutz!!!

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Mxyzptlk]

At 10:30 AM 11/9/2002, sean deason wrote:

also: one notable scene in 8Mile is filmed in the alleyway behind the
Transmat offices in Eastern Market (locals some of you will recognize The
Atlas building from numerous loft parties down there).


Speaking of Transmat, any word on Time:Space 2?
And is there a US source for C2's Workout?
Thx.
jeff

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[techno]

on 11/8/02 7:38 PM, Lee Herrington IV at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 does the elitist post to this list?

Yes and they do not always share information.
Elitism has always been a part of Detroit techno and underground dance music
culture a social and political aspect to the
music.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[marc christensen]

dear techno --

It's nice to see you can couple a good, fresh insight to a troll. 
Because you're right -- the old-school elitism of the NW side GQ 
cliques was very palpable, and has been documented well in interview 
sources.


Your reminder even makes the self-justifying marginalization of 
disagreement implicit in your original post much more bearable.


But doesn't this also mean it would be more Detroit techno of us 
not only to disagree, but also to withhold more information?


If so, I will continue to do so, and shut up now.
-marc


At 6:46 PM -0600 11/8/02, techno wrote:

Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.


At 8:38 PM -0500 11/8/02, Lee Herrington IV wrote:

does the elitist post to this list?


At 11:05 AM -0600 11/9/02, techno wrote:

Yes and they do not always share information.
Elitism has always been a part of Detroit techno and underground dance music
culture a social and political aspect to the
music.

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[T.J.Johnson]

The funny thing is, I've never noticed any elitism in
the Detroit techno music business until I joined this
list.  It's interesting how the internet helps shape
the world...


marc christensen wrote:

 
 dear techno --
 
 It's nice to see you can couple a good, fresh insight
 to a troll. 
 Because you're right -- the old-school elitism of the
 NW side GQ 
 cliques was very palpable, and has been documented
well
 in interview 
 sources.
 
 Your reminder even makes the self-justifying
 marginalization of 
 disagreement implicit in your original post much more
 bearable.
 
 But doesn't this also mean it would be more Detroit
 techno of us 
 not only to disagree, but also to withhold more
 information?
 
 If so, I will continue to do so, and shut up now.
 -marc
 
 
 At 6:46 PM -0600 11/8/02, techno wrote:
 Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.
 
 At 8:38 PM -0500 11/8/02, Lee Herrington IV wrote:
  does the elitist post to this list?
 
 At 11:05 AM -0600 11/9/02, techno wrote:
 Yes and they do not always share information.
 Elitism has always been a part of Detroit techno and
 underground dance music
 culture a social and political aspect to the
 music.

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Dan Sicko]

Can we move this discussion to the 313-elite mailing list please?

I believe the server forwards messages on a wireless network inside 
Lafayette Coney Island.


-d

On Saturday, November 9, 2002, at 01:21 PM, marc christensen wrote:


dear techno --

It's nice to see you can couple a good, fresh insight to a troll. 
Because you're right -- the old-school elitism of the NW side GQ 
cliques was very palpable, and has been documented well in interview 
sources.


Your reminder even makes the self-justifying marginalization of 
disagreement implicit in your original post much more bearable.


But doesn't this also mean it would be more Detroit techno of us not 
only to disagree, but also to withhold more information?


If so, I will continue to do so, and shut up now.
-marc


At 6:46 PM -0600 11/8/02, techno wrote:

Of coure the elitist will disagree with me on this.


At 8:38 PM -0500 11/8/02, Lee Herrington IV wrote:

does the elitist post to this list?


At 11:05 AM -0600 11/9/02, techno wrote:

Yes and they do not always share information.
Elitism has always been a part of Detroit techno and underground 
dance music

culture a social and political aspect to the
music.

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Lester Kenyatta Spence]

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, T.J.Johnson wrote:

 yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he
 even knows that he is not dissing techno...

given one piece of anecdotal information (mathers was spotted at the
wizard's return back in...march was it?) i think he knows.


peace
lks

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Lester Kenyatta Spence]

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, T.J.Johnson wrote:

 techno has never been all over Detroit radio  it used
 to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was
 braodcasting live but that's about it

no.  it DID used to be all over detroit radio.  go back about 17 years.


peace
lks

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[g]

ha..  isn't it an eminem song that says something about 'no one listens 
to techno anyway'?


On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 02:20 PM, Patrick Wacher wrote:


Check out the site for Eminem's film... http://www.8-mile.com/

It's a Flash based site with plenty of things to see and do... If you 
pull down the map of Detroit and click on #3, you'll get a brief 
history of Detroit Techno! (Moby definately excluded! ;)


Anyway, go have a look around.

Peace,
Patrick.
--
Southern Outpost
Distributed worldwide via Twilight 76
http://www.southernoutpost.com
p:+61 412 313 151 f:+ 612 9032 6046
--

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[Dan Sicko]

I would encourage people to check out the *first* 8 Mile movie, a
documentary ...

http://www.glaserproductions.com/detdoc.htm

-d

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Patrick Wacher wrote:

 Check out the site for Eminem's film... http://www.8-mile.com/

 It's a Flash based site with plenty of things to see and do... If you
 pull down the map of Detroit and click on #3, you'll get a brief
 history of Detroit Techno! (Moby definately excluded! ;)

 Anyway, go have a look around.

 Peace,
 Patrick.
 --
 Southern Outpost
 Distributed worldwide via Twilight 76
 http://www.southernoutpost.com
 p:+61 412 313 151 f:+ 612 9032 6046
 --

Re: (313) 8-Mile

[::\)]

where is gratiot
:P

-Joe

- Original Message - 
From: Dan Sicko [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Patrick Wacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: (313) 8-Mile


 
 I would encourage people to check out the *first* 8 Mile movie, a
 documentary ...
 
 http://www.glaserproductions.com/detdoc.htm
 
 -d
 
 On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Patrick Wacher wrote:
 
  Check out the site for Eminem's film... http://www.8-mile.com/
 
  It's a Flash based site with plenty of things to see and do... If you
  pull down the map of Detroit and click on #3, you'll get a brief
  history of Detroit Techno! (Moby definately excluded! ;)
 
  Anyway, go have a look around.
 
  Peace,
  Patrick.
  --
  Southern Outpost
  Distributed worldwide via Twilight 76
  http://www.southernoutpost.com
  p:+61 412 313 151 f:+ 612 9032 6046
  --
 
 
 

Re: (313) 8-Mile - Detroit music history

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

actually - that's a really nice website. gives credit and some history to
the trailblazers of Detroit music in #3 which brings me to the topic of
books about the very same-

to you Detroiters and Detroit historians a question -

which books give the best history of Detroit music?

Whether it be encyclopedia style or a more narrated story
what I really love to see in a book is a discography in the back and maybe
even eras broken down - ala Dan's Techno Rebels

MEK






  Patrick Wacher

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   313@hyperreal.org 

  utpost.com   cc: 

Subject:  (313) 8-Mile  

  11/08/02 04:20 PM 









Check out the site for Eminem's film... http://www.8-mile.com/

It's a Flash based site with plenty of things to see and do... If you
pull down the map of Detroit and click on #3, you'll get a brief
history of Detroit Techno! (Moby definately excluded! ;)

Anyway, go have a look around.

Peace,
Patrick.
--
Southern Outpost
Distributed worldwide via Twilight 76
http://www.southernoutpost.com
p:+61 412 313 151 f:+ 612 9032 6046
--