Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
well then, let's see some of there great artists that are out there
that nobody knows about. i will tell you exactly why they are
terrible.
LOL!!
This is too rich for words! :))
All the more reason why it was silly for him to unsubscribe!
{}0+|
Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Cos there couldn't possibly be any good music out there that you're not
aware of
well then, let's see some of there great artists that are out there
that nobody knows about. i will tell you exactly why they are
terrible. i always check out new things, i may not know every single
good artist but i try my best to find them, and i come up with next to
nothing when listening to new music.
tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
OK this is the 83rd message in this thread, according to GMail.
I don't really want to comment any further on L'Affaire du Tomme,
except to say that the one thing the list will likely be without him
is quiet.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 7:35 PM, darnistle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
well then, let's see some of there great artists that are out there
that nobody knows about. i will tell you exactly why they are
terrible.
LOL!!
This is too rich for words! :))
All the more reason why it was silly for him to unsubscribe!
{}0+|
Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Cos there couldn't possibly be any good music out there that you're not
aware of
well then, let's see some of there great artists that are out there
that nobody knows about. i will tell you exactly why they are
terrible. i always check out new things, i may not know every single
good artist but i try my best to find them, and i come up with next to
nothing when listening to new music.
tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
and interestingly, nobody ever bothered to change the subject to
something more appropriate. we suck.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 8:42 PM, kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK this is the 83rd message in this thread, according to GMail.
I don't really want to comment any further on L'Affaire du Tomme,
except to say that the one thing the list will likely be without him
is quiet.
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 7:35 PM, darnistle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
well then, let's see some of there great artists that are out there
that nobody knows about. i will tell you exactly why they are
terrible.
LOL!!
This is too rich for words! :))
All the more reason why it was silly for him to unsubscribe!
{}0+|
Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Cos there couldn't possibly be any good music out there that you're not
aware of
well then, let's see some of there great artists that are out there
that nobody knows about. i will tell you exactly why they are
terrible. i always check out new things, i may not know every single
good artist but i try my best to find them, and i come up with next to
nothing when listening to new music.
tom
--
peace,
frank
dj mix archive: http://www.deejaycountzero.com
RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Who's that? Giorgio Moroder? -Original Message- From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:55 AM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr.; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Man, you're more single-minded than that Austrian chap with the funny tache Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 April 2008 18:45 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 # No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date: 4/24/2008 6:32 PM
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
- Original Message - From: rg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Robert Taylor' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 3:28 AM Subject: RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Who's that? Giorgio Moroder? Hitler! By virtue of which, the law of the internet should dictate that this thread is done. Tristan === [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phonopsia.co.uk
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Exactly, Godwin's Law established. END. - Original Message - From: Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: rg [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Robert Taylor' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts - Original Message - From: rg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Robert Taylor' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 3:28 AM Subject: RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Who's that? Giorgio Moroder? Hitler! By virtue of which, the law of the internet should dictate that this thread is done. Tristan === [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phonopsia.co.uk
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
gotta love mike bee. he's heart and soul man. and that cosmic mix he did for ISM was sweet. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:48 AM, Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with my friend Mikebee, long time Detroit festival attendee, ace DJ, buyer at the world-renowned Amoeba records and possessor of serious vinyl. He was recently profiled in the SF Weekly and says, Every year there's always people out there who'll go, 'Ah, what a sh1##ty year for music this was!' I find that impossible to relate to. Every year is another great year. There's too much to experience! http://www.sfweekly.com/2008-03-12/music/making-a-buzz/ fh == I really liked reading this. American electronic music has gotten into a pretty serious rut in the past 7 years. Despite this, I have continued to hear phenomenal music. It appears that the successes are not being held by those creators often, and the success and cash ends up going to a trendier or more easily swallowed form of hipper musics. Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY -- peace, frank dj mix archive: http://www.deejaycountzero.com
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
- Original Message - From: J.C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Mailing List 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 6:59 AM Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On 23 April 2008, Fred Heutte wrote: I'm with my friend Mikebee, long time Detroit festival attendee, ace DJ, buyer at the world-renowned Amoeba records and possessor of serious vinyl. He was recently profiled in the SF Weekly and says, Every year there's always people out there who'll go, 'Ah, what a sh1##ty year for music this was!' I find that impossible to relate to. Every year is another great year. There's too much to experience! My personal qualification for this statement is adding except for 1997. :) Ha! It was bad for me because I ran out of money after spunking it on all the brilliant stuff that came out in 94-96. :) Tristan === [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phonopsia.co.uk
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
That's very true - especially if you're looking beyond a niche. I can't keep up with all the good music. Thank god for promos! MEK Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/24/2008 01:48:02 AM: I'm with my friend Mikebee, long time Detroit festival attendee, ace DJ, buyer at the world-renowned Amoeba records and possessor of serious vinyl. He was recently profiled in the SF Weekly and says, Every year there's always people out there who'll go, 'Ah, what a sh1##ty year for music this was!' I find that impossible to relate to. Every year is another great year. There's too much to experience! http://www.sfweekly.com/2008-03-12/music/making-a-buzz/ fh == I really liked reading this. American electronic music has gotten into a pretty serious rut in the past 7 years. Despite this, I have continued to hear phenomenal music. It appears that the successes are not being held by those creators often, and the success and cash ends up going to a trendier or more easily swallowed form of hipper musics. Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:20 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's very true - especially if you're looking beyond a niche. I can't keep up with all the good music. i disagree. almost every genre is the same, tons and tons of nonsense with just a few decent people making new stuff. in fact, i think it is easier for me to find things in the niche of what i really like because my taste is more refined, smaller differences end up being more pronounced. i love mikebee, but he has definitely played some nonsense at times in the past (i can remember him playing a bunch of Get Physical records a few years back, ewww!). he usually gets it more right than not, but he is also currently buying lots and lots of old records. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Are you talking about staying within the bounds of dance music though? There's amazing folk stuff going on - great music from all around the world - some very good/strong independent song writers - fantastic classical music Of course there's tons of nonsense but there always has been. Now with the way artists don't have to rely on record label $$ and the major label machine to get their music out you can find some really great music I'm constantly finding new great stuff via myspace - find one good artist and follow their links. it takes effort to find it all MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/24/2008 09:24:17 AM: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:20 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's very true - especially if you're looking beyond a niche. I can't keep up with all the good music. i disagree. almost every genre is the same, tons and tons of nonsense with just a few decent people making new stuff. in fact, i think it is easier for me to find things in the niche of what i really like because my taste is more refined, smaller differences end up being more pronounced. i love mikebee, but he has definitely played some nonsense at times in the past (i can remember him playing a bunch of Get Physical records a few years back, ewww!). he usually gets it more right than not, but he is also currently buying lots and lots of old records. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you talking about staying within the bounds of dance music though? There's amazing folk stuff going on - great music from all around the world - some very good/strong independent song writers - fantastic classical music i mean all music. i listen to lots of satellite radio, i listen to lots of random things that discover in all sorts of places. i find that about one new artist out of every few hundred i hear regardless of genre touches me enough that i care about their music. one of the last acoustic artists i heard that i liked was that Jose Gonzales guy whom i heard on satellite only to discover that his music was released on Peacefrog of all labels. Of course there's tons of nonsense but there always has been. Now with the way artists don't have to rely on record label $$ and the major label machine to get their music out you can find some really great music I'm constantly finding new great stuff via myspace - find one good artist and follow their links. you've found a good artist on myspace?!?!?! maybe our standards are different. i would rather listen to something i know i like than something that just isn't top notch. myspace is such a waste of time for me musically. it takes effort to find it all i put out tons of effort and i still get nothing. i definitely have a much higher rate of return on older music. i could just be a hater though, i've been accused of that in the past. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/24/2008 10:34:06 AM: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you talking about staying within the bounds of dance music though? There's amazing folk stuff going on - great music from all aroundthe world - some very good/strong independent song writers - fantastic classical music i mean all music. i listen to lots of satellite radio, i listen to lots of random things that discover in all sorts of places. i find that about one new artist out of every few hundred i hear regardless of genre touches me enough that i care about their music. one of the last acoustic artists i heard that i liked was that Jose Gonzales guy whom i heard on satellite only to discover that his music was released on Peacefrog of all labels. Jose Gonzales is just scraping the surface of acoustic music You aren't going to hear a lot of the DIY labels on ANY radio that's where so much of it is at now Of course there's tons of nonsense but there always has been. Now with the way artists don't have to rely on record label $$ and the major label machine to get their music out you can find some really great music I'm constantly finding new great stuff via myspace - find one good artist and follow their links. you've found a good artist on myspace?!?!?! maybe our standards are different. i would rather listen to something i know i like than something that just isn't top notch. myspace is such a waste of time for me musically. yeah, just got to find the right artists and peruse their friends list it takes effort to find it all i put out tons of effort and i still get nothing. i definitely have a much higher rate of return on older music. i could just be a hater though, i've been accused of that in the past. Not so much of a hater - fixed is a better description maybe? That's not meant as a putdown either Slagging off myspace completely because there's a major amount of garbage on there is not ever going into a record store because there's a lot of crappy CD shops you have to forget about the bad, make like a duck and let that water slide off your back MEK
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
just found via myspace: www.myspace.com/invisiblecongapeople cable dazed reminds me a bit of the c2 remix for Delia Gonzalez and Gavin Russom combined with Neu! (apologies, that has nothin' to do with movement...) c* Original-Nachricht Datum: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:45:38 -0500 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Betreff: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/24/2008 10:34:06 AM: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you talking about staying within the bounds of dance music though? There's amazing folk stuff going on - great music from all aroundthe world - some very good/strong independent song writers - fantastic classical music i mean all music. i listen to lots of satellite radio, i listen to lots of random things that discover in all sorts of places. i find that about one new artist out of every few hundred i hear regardless of genre touches me enough that i care about their music. one of the last acoustic artists i heard that i liked was that Jose Gonzales guy whom i heard on satellite only to discover that his music was released on Peacefrog of all labels. Jose Gonzales is just scraping the surface of acoustic music You aren't going to hear a lot of the DIY labels on ANY radio that's where so much of it is at now Of course there's tons of nonsense but there always has been. Now with the way artists don't have to rely on record label $$ and the major label machine to get their music out you can find some really great music I'm constantly finding new great stuff via myspace - find one good artist and follow their links. you've found a good artist on myspace?!?!?! maybe our standards are different. i would rather listen to something i know i like than something that just isn't top notch. myspace is such a waste of time for me musically. yeah, just got to find the right artists and peruse their friends list it takes effort to find it all i put out tons of effort and i still get nothing. i definitely have a much higher rate of return on older music. i could just be a hater though, i've been accused of that in the past. Not so much of a hater - fixed is a better description maybe? That's not meant as a putdown either Slagging off myspace completely because there's a major amount of garbage on there is not ever going into a record store because there's a lot of crappy CD shops you have to forget about the bad, make like a duck and let that water slide off your back MEK
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:45 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jose Gonzales is just scraping the surface of acoustic music You aren't going to hear a lot of the DIY labels on ANY radio that's where so much of it is at now if you say so. maybe i just dont really care that much. like i said, i listen to lots of different things from all over the place, nothing ever does it for me. yeah, just got to find the right artists and peruse their friends list i mean, i dont understand how i could never once in my life have found a single good artist on myspace who doesnt have things released on labels. i also havent found anything released on a net label that is worth anything. Not so much of a hater - fixed is a better description maybe? That's not meant as a putdown either i dont see how it is fixed to be actively looking for good music in all genres. Slagging off myspace completely because there's a major amount of garbage on there is not ever going into a record store because there's a lot of crappy CD shops you have to forget about the bad, make like a duck and let that water slide off your back myspace has given me zero return, how much should i keep looking if i find nothing? i just feel like good music finds its way into formats other than myspace. if i have to wait for it, ill wait, but it still isnt showing up. i follow peoples reccomendations, check out things ive heard about, things i havent heard about, etc. i think there really just isnt much good music being made today. i dont see why that can't be true. tom
RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Jeeesus christ - I think you must be autistic Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 April 2008 17:02 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:45 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jose Gonzales is just scraping the surface of acoustic music You aren't going to hear a lot of the DIY labels on ANY radio that's where so much of it is at now if you say so. maybe i just dont really care that much. like i said, i listen to lots of different things from all over the place, nothing ever does it for me. yeah, just got to find the right artists and peruse their friends list i mean, i dont understand how i could never once in my life have found a single good artist on myspace who doesnt have things released on labels. i also havent found anything released on a net label that is worth anything. Not so much of a hater - fixed is a better description maybe? That's not meant as a putdown either i dont see how it is fixed to be actively looking for good music in all genres. Slagging off myspace completely because there's a major amount of garbage on there is not ever going into a record store because there's a lot of crappy CD shops you have to forget about the bad, make like a duck and let that water slide off your back myspace has given me zero return, how much should i keep looking if i find nothing? i just feel like good music finds its way into formats other than myspace. if i have to wait for it, ill wait, but it still isnt showing up. i follow peoples reccomendations, check out things ive heard about, things i havent heard about, etc. i think there really just isnt much good music being made today. i dont see why that can't be true. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 #
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeeesus christ - I think you must be autistic or i could just not listen to nonsense music. it must be about the same. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
i think there really just isnt much good music being made today. i dont see why that can't be true. tom because people, Luddites - naysayers - Dad rockers - old farts with slippers and pipes, have been saying those exact words for eons it all comes down to personal taste in music you set yours for yourself and everyone else will set theirs it's just up to you to find people whom you share the same taste and learn some coping skills to deal with people who don't as much as anyone might disagree - you cannot argue taste if you argue taste you might as well be banging your head against a brick wall that's not a statement directed at you, just a - this is how it is thing MEK
RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Cos there couldn't possibly be any good music out there that you're not aware of Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 April 2008 17:10 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeeesus christ - I think you must be autistic or i could just not listen to nonsense music. it must be about the same. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 #
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cos there couldn't possibly be any good music out there that you're not aware of well then, let's see some of there great artists that are out there that nobody knows about. i will tell you exactly why they are terrible. i always check out new things, i may not know every single good artist but i try my best to find them, and i come up with next to nothing when listening to new music. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: because people, Luddites - naysayers - Dad rockers - old farts with slippers and pipes, have been saying those exact words for eons it all comes down to personal taste in music but i am not coming from that perspective of what is new to me is not good. i am coming from the perspective that none of what is out there is new to me, and none of it is interesting either. as much as anyone might disagree - you cannot argue taste if you argue taste you might as well be banging your head against a brick wall that's not a statement directed at you, just a - this is how it is thing people are free to like whatever they want, but i dont agree that quality is subjective. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/24/2008 11:28:08 AM: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: because people, Luddites - naysayers - Dad rockers - old farts with slippers and pipes, have been saying those exact words for eons it all comes down to personal taste in music but i am not coming from that perspective of what is new to me is not good. i am coming from the perspective that none of what is out there is new to me, and none of it is interesting either. painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die as much as anyone might disagree - you cannot argue taste if you argue taste you might as well be banging your head against a brick wall that's not a statement directed at you, just a - this is how it is thing people are free to like whatever they want, but i dont agree that quality is subjective. tom ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do - outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree MEK
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom
RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Man, you're more single-minded than that Austrian chap with the funny tache Rob Taylor VT Librarian x8599 Hatch Desk x1088 VT Library Users' Guide -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 April 2008 18:45 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. Channel Four Television Corporation, created by statute under English law, is at 124 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 2TX . 4 Ventures Limited (Company No. 04106849), incorporated in England and Wales has its registered office at 124 Horseferry Road, London SW1P 2TX. VAT no: GB 626475817 #
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man, you're more single-minded than that Austrian chap with the funny tache all music is equally good. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom do you have a mirror in your house at all Tom? MEK
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Tom's the lucky one. If I had that outlook, I wouldn't have to worry about spending the rent on new 12s. m50 At 12:45 2008.04.24, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
you wouldn't have the intellectual capacity to worry about many things... what kind of man spends time that could be spend raising his son, arguing on the internet? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Tom's the lucky one. If I had that outlook, I wouldn't have to worry about spending the rent on new 12s. m50 At 12:45 2008.04.24, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
man, I know that you've been asked before not to bring our child into these stupid arguments. rip on Tom. rip on me. that's fine. our son has nothing to do with any of this and I KNOW that you have enough sense to realize that that's some serious bull. I am seriously not comfortable with strangers discussing my child and I don't think my request is an unreasonable one. not another word. got it? On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:13 PM, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you wouldn't have the intellectual capacity to worry about many things... what kind of man spends time that could be spend raising his son, arguing on the internet? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Tom's the lucky one. If I had that outlook, I wouldn't have to worry about spending the rent on new 12s. m50 At 12:45 2008.04.24, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom -- http://www.mamapop.com http://kdiddy.org
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Kent, you need to ban this redshift idiot. He's had enough chances. I mean, I've already filtered his email address to my trash, and I never would have even known that he said this crap if Kelly hadn't replied to him, but that's not the point. He has absolutely no business on this list. Period. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Kelly B. Delaney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: man, I know that you've been asked before not to bring our child into these stupid arguments. rip on Tom. rip on me. that's fine. our son has nothing to do with any of this and I KNOW that you have enough sense to realize that that's some serious bull. I am seriously not comfortable with strangers discussing my child and I don't think my request is an unreasonable one. not another word. got it? On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:13 PM, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you wouldn't have the intellectual capacity to worry about many things... what kind of man spends time that could be spend raising his son, arguing on the internet? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Tom's the lucky one. If I had that outlook, I wouldn't have to worry about spending the rent on new 12s. m50 At 12:45 2008.04.24, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom -- http://www.mamapop.com http://kdiddy.org -- peace, frank dj mix archive: http://www.deejaycountzero.com
RE: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
I agree, you need to sort out this r3dshift/Joe guy out. It's way out of order! -Original Message- From: Frank Glazer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 April 2008 01:24 To: kent williams Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Kent, you need to ban this redshift idiot. He's had enough chances. I mean, I've already filtered his email address to my trash, and I never would have even known that he said this crap if Kelly hadn't replied to him, but that's not the point. He has absolutely no business on this list. Period.
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Strike 2, I'm serious. First of all I know Tom and I know his wife and his son is lucky to have them as parents. Second, you don't know f*ck all about either of them and are only talking sh*t to get a rise out of Tom and (mistakenly) thinking that this sort of crap makes you look like a big man on the mailing list. Third of all, you took a lively discussion and made it personal. This is not your litter box to foul. Any more of this out of you and you are permanently banned from 313. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:13 PM, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you wouldn't have the intellectual capacity to worry about many things... what kind of man spends time that could be spend raising his son, arguing on the internet? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Tom's the lucky one. If I had that outlook, I wouldn't have to worry about spending the rent on new 12s. m50 At 12:45 2008.04.24, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: painting the world in absolutes is dangerous to the mind, soul, and spirit might as well we all give up then - you included might as well lay down and die nope. ah, but you're trying to put a corral, which is at best a concrete picket fence, around something that is abstract and untouchable nope. the result is it will continue to slip out, over, and under any kind of objective rules you try to wrap quality in nope. you can't see inside everyone's souls to see why they like the things they do but you can see inside the soul of the people making the music, which is what makes it either good or nonsense. outside of the technical, why they find quality in one person's playing and not in another's i think people just make it up at random. most people dont even really listen to music IMO. laying down objective parameters on quality is for people living in fragile worlds nope. in the end, your mind, like the concrete fence, will be rigid and stuck - unable to move from where you last put it nope. if you're sticking that fence around other people then you're ego trippin' to the highest degree nope. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Booyakasha! MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/22/2008 08:37:06 PM: Michael, you get it. respect, - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/22/2008 03:04:35 PM: Look, the question of whether there has been one festival or several different festivals because there were different production companies just doesn't matter very much to me. At the same time there has obviously been a different approach and style that each production group has taken on. What matters to me is that the general trend is the decline in the relative weight given to Detroit-area DJs and live acts over the years. Eh, yep - string these three together and you've got 1. there's been three different fests 2. three different fest production companies 3. a general trend in a decline of Detroit artist presence You're comparing apples and oranges You have to consider the festivals from each production company seperately - not as a whole string of the same event. It's fair to compare 2002 to 2001 but not 2008 to 2001 because the company in charge during 2001 had NOTHING to do with 2008's fest (and vise versa) each new production company is a new and different festival It just so happened that Pop Culture, Carl Craig, Derrick May, and Kevin Saunderson had a similar goal in mind it's Paxahau's Movement that isn't continuing the same trajectory and never did from the start of their production it's unfair to the previously mentioned producers to lump them in with Paxahau because I don't think they are cut from the same cloth By all signs given, Paxahau is *not* going to do a festival in the same vein as the others they are *not* going to return to a Detroit Electronic Music Festival style event like we had during the 2000-2002 span It does come down to the production company and their mission Each one has had a goal for the festival that was reflected in the line-ups Each production company has given different results My opinion is if you want a 2000-2002 style festival don't wait around for Paxahau to deliver it Three years in a row they've shown that they just aren't interested in doing it MEK
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
I just needed to correct something for you MEK... Eh, yep - string these three together and you've got 1. there's been three different fests 2. three different fest production companies There's actually been FOUR different production companies 1. Carol Marvin's 2. Derrick May's 3. Kevin Saunderson's 4. Paxahau
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
of course, thanks for correcting that MEK UI Design [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/23/2008 12:50:13 PM: I just needed to correct something for you MEK... Eh, yep - string these three together and you've got 1. there's been three different fests 2. three different fest production companies There's actually been FOUR different production companies 1. Carol Marvin's 2. Derrick May's 3. Kevin Saunderson's 4. Paxahau
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
I really liked reading this. American electronic music has gotten into a pretty serious rut in the past 7 years. Despite this, I have continued to hear phenomenal music. It appears that the successes are not being held by those creators often, and the success and cash ends up going to a trendier or more easily swallowed form of hipper musics. On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:02 AM, JT Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big There is no evidence to support the assumption that booking more artists outside of the Detroit tradition improves the success of the festival. There is in fact evidence that the festivals that were about Detroit's electronic music legacy had much larger attendance -- there is no way to know how many of those people would have attended had it not been free, but it's fairly safe to assume that the first few festivals would have been the greatest successes had an entry fee been charged and had the festivals been competently managed. The sponsorship was there (selling the festival as Detroit Techno all over TV, to boot), mainstream media was there, the initial excitement was there, the widespread local appeal was there. The only thing borne out as a more successful approach in the past few years is the charging of an entry fee and a much more competent management of the festival in general. You aren't going to convince anybody jumping to conclusions that aren't borne out. You can only claim Paxahau's festival would be less successful as a Detroit-centric festival if they throw one and it is decisively less successful. You may well be right (I think you are) considering the trends in electronic music these days, but they haven't had that festival to prove it, yet. member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. That's certainly true enough, but helllooo McFly, why the hell are you on the Detroit Techno mailing list if you don't think Detroit's legacy is more important, ultimately more culturally relevant, than global superstar dj's or the newest hype for the majority of people attending. There has to be a balance between commerce and art/culture, but considering it's Detroit, and the only electronic music festival in Detroit, I think it's reasonable to expect there will be an undercurrent to the festival that celebrates Detroit's legacy. I don't think Paxahau has failed to address that, but as Detroit Techno devotees we want more, we want Paxahau to have the balls to risk it's ass to throw another Detroit-centric festival, now that they have put in place proper management. It is a bit unreasonable. Paxahau's business smarts that dictates the festival goes increasingly in a different direction -- the cultural relevance has been minim(al)ized, because I'm afraid electronic music, especially American electronic music, has suffered tremendously in the last 7 years. It would be crazy to throw a festival like the first few festivals again given that no one (comparatively) in America is buying Techno, and maybe more importantly look at the output of Detroit (and America in general). Paxahau is smart and they have probably judged the market correctly. You gotta get the kids there. There ain't many heads among the kids these days. The heads have jobs, kids, old fogie legs that don't dance so good no more...The kids ain't got no responsibilities and are much more carefree about burning through their dough. The majority just wanna party. Perhaps they would be open to learning about why Detroit's legacy is so important and unique to electronic music. But there is no real exciting reason why they would care to learn. The infrastructure to put Detroit/American electronic music culture in the public eye and make it compelling just isn't there. /0 may be obnoxious (ain't we all sometimes), but I'm afraid he's right. That said I'm attending if it's within my budget (plane tickets and gas = megabux right now) and a lot of friends of mine who have never gone before -- heads even -- want to go this year. It's the best we have and it's not going to improve if it's not nurtured. I believe things will come back around, and besides it's the best opportunity we Americans have to see so many artists we like in one place, without using a passport. And if the festival ain't up to snuff for you, you can shift your attention to soaking up the city and hanging out with seldom-seen friends...It depends on your budget etc whether it's worth it or not -- if budget isn't a primary consideration, absolutely it is... I miss Detroit a lot... -- --- Michael Kuszynski
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
I'm with my friend Mikebee, long time Detroit festival attendee, ace DJ, buyer at the world-renowned Amoeba records and possessor of serious vinyl. He was recently profiled in the SF Weekly and says, Every year there's always people out there who'll go, 'Ah, what a sh1##ty year for music this was!' I find that impossible to relate to. Every year is another great year. There's too much to experience! http://www.sfweekly.com/2008-03-12/music/making-a-buzz/ fh == I really liked reading this. American electronic music has gotten into a pretty serious rut in the past 7 years. Despite this, I have continued to hear phenomenal music. It appears that the successes are not being held by those creators often, and the success and cash ends up going to a trendier or more easily swallowed form of hipper musics. Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
RE: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Hey Reds1ht It would be more interesting if you stopped being so aggressive and argumentative to various individuals on this list. Do many on this list even value your contribution/trolling to the various discussions? G -Original Message- From: /0 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 April 2008 01:52 To: Fred Heutte; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. -Fred Heutte - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Fw: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well then the prevalent view here is wrong So it always seems coming from you. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:22:42 -0400 well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big deal, so you wont like every act, but without the other 75 percent, the 25 percent you want wouldnt have a festival to play at. and for every 313 member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. again, it is detroit's electronic music festival. not the detroit electronic music festival. furthermore, it's pretty obvious that its not a festival dedicated to detroit music. even the first blessed years were not as detroit-centric as it could have been. and thank god for that. - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: Fw: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. Maybe somewhere else someone is demanding that Movement 2008: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival be only about Detroit techmo. But not here. The prevalent view on 313@hyperreal.org has always been that the festival works best when it represents -all- of Detroit's electronic music diversity, not just techno. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:31 -0400 as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups
RE: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
There is nothing about Movement in this thread. -Original Message- From: Williams, Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:42 AM To: /0; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Hey Reds1ht It would be more interesting if you stopped being so aggressive and argumentative to various individuals on this list. Do many on this list even value your contribution/trolling to the various discussions? G -Original Message- From: /0 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 April 2008 01:52 To: Fred Heutte; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. -Fred Heutte - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Fw: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well then the prevalent view here is wrong So it always seems coming from you. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:22:42 -0400 well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big deal, so you wont like every act, but without the other 75 percent, the 25 percent you want wouldnt have a festival to play at. and for every 313 member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. again, it is detroit's electronic music festival. not the detroit electronic music festival. furthermore, it's pretty obvious that its not a festival dedicated to detroit music. even the first blessed years were not as detroit-centric as it could have been. and thank god for that. - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: Fw: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. Maybe somewhere else someone is demanding that Movement 2008: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival be only about Detroit techmo. But not here. The prevalent view on 313@hyperreal.org has always been that the festival works best when it represents -all- of Detroit's electronic music diversity, not just techno. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:31 -0400 as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
did my message not come thru? it was about movement. and i agree with /0, pretty much, minus the enthusiasm On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is nothing about Movement in this thread. -Original Message- From: Williams, Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:42 AM To: /0; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Hey Reds1ht It would be more interesting if you stopped being so aggressive and argumentative to various individuals on this list. Do many on this list even value your contribution/trolling to the various discussions? G -Original Message- From: /0 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 April 2008 01:52 To: Fred Heutte; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. -Fred Heutte - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Fw: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well then the prevalent view here is wrong So it always seems coming from you. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:22:42 -0400 well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big deal, so you wont like every act, but without the other 75 percent, the 25 percent you want wouldnt have a festival to play at. and for every 313 member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. again, it is detroit's electronic music festival. not the detroit electronic music festival. furthermore, it's pretty obvious that its not a festival dedicated to detroit music. even the first blessed years were not as detroit-centric as it could have been. and thank god for that. - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: Fw: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. Maybe somewhere else someone is demanding that Movement 2008: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival be only about Detroit techmo. But not here. The prevalent view on 313@hyperreal.org has always been that the festival works best when it represents -all- of Detroit's electronic music diversity, not just techno. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:31 -0400 as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 8:47 AM, JT Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did my message not come thru? it was about movement. and i agree with /0, pretty much, minus the enthusiasm why not just call it Big Rave X if that is all it is going to be? the problem is that they still want to market it with the name that is famous because of Detroit's music, but they want to book nonsense and garbage. if this thing was called anything but what it is, it wouldn't even be an issue because i dont think many people on here worry about super hyped raves anymore in 2008. why not just do it on another weekend, call it something else, make your money and let someone else do something that is more in line with the original festival's ideal on memorial day weekend, even if it is scaled back a ton? tom
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
well, it's called Movement: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival. so i guess, if you want, you CAN see it as Big Rave X, big rave that happens to be in Detroit but we're going around in circles again... - Original Message - Da : Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] A : 313@hyperreal.org Oggetto : Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Data : Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:40:50 -0400 On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 8:47 AM, JT Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did my message not come thru? it was about movement. and i agree with /0, pretty much, minus the enthusiasm why not just call it Big Rave X if that is all it is going to be? the problem is that they still want to market it with the name that is famous because of Detroit's music , but they want to book nonsense and garbage. if this thing was called anything but what it is, it wouldn't even be an issue because i dont think many people on here worry about super hyped raves anymore in 2008. why not just do it on another weekend, call it something else, make your money and let someone else do something that is more in line with the original festival's ideal on memorial day weekend, even if it is scaled back a ton? tom
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, it's called Movement: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival. an amalgamation of the names previously used for the festival that was about detroit music. which is the problem. so i guess, if you want, you CAN see it as Big Rave X, big rave that happens to be in Detroit but we're going around in circles again... what circle is that? the only thing happening is the appropriation of name, music, and place by white people of a largely black culture. yes, we are going around that circle yet again, but this time it is happening in Hart plaza instead of in Europe. tom
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
why not just call it Big Rave X if that is all it is going to be? because that's not all it is, it's not all or nothing. you're argument loses quite a bit of validity if you make sweeping generalizations to glaze over any details that contradict your opinion. it's hardly a super-hyped rave. super hyped raves anymore in 2008. why not just do it on another weekend, call it something else, make your money and let someone else do something that is more in line with the original festival's ideal on memorial day weekend, even if it is scaled back a ton? that's crazy talk. why doesn't somebody else just step up and lose their ass to throw a festival celebrating american electronic music, which has a tiny niche. like i said in my previous message, american electronic music ain't what it used to be. you have to have infrastructure before you can have an audience and these days american electronic music has neither. the american electronic music scene is WEAK, and has been for years, it is just not realistic to expect some idealized super dope festival...the sponsors won't go for it. paxahau knows what it's doing. it could be better, it's certainly fair to criticize it, but it's hardly so bad that it deserves the over-the-top insults you're throwing at it. i'm frustrated with state of things in the USA too. Paxahau can't fix that. Regarding another festival...why does it have to be at Hart Plaza memorial day weekend? That's a huge space that involves a crapload of logistical obstacles (traffic, security, electricity/sound/gear for outdoors etc etc etc), and it's not the best timing either (summer vacations haven't yet started for most). I'd love to see a big party/festival without any BS, I'm sure it could be done. Somebody find a space outside city limits where noise and fire ordinances don't apply, budget the performers carefully, have it running concurrent to the festival, that would be great. I am not cut out for big crowds and overpriced beer anyways.
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:13 AM, JT Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why not just call it Big Rave X if that is all it is going to be? because that's not all it is, it's not all or nothing. you're argument loses quite a bit of validity if you make sweeping generalizations to glaze over any details that contradict your opinion. it's hardly a super-hyped rave. Moby, The Cool Kids, Dieselboy, Benny Benassi, Deadmau5, Girl Talk, James Zabiela. if that isnt the definition of a pedestrian rave, i dont know what is. that's crazy talk. why doesn't somebody else just step up and lose their ass to throw a festival celebrating american electronic music, which has a tiny niche. then just dont do it at all. its better than being disingenuous at best, a profiteer at worst. like i said in my previous message, american electronic music ain't what it used to be. you have to have infrastructure before you can have an audience and these days american electronic music has neither. the american electronic music scene is WEAK, and has been for years, it is just not realistic to expect some idealized super dope festival... i dont want that, like i said, i would be more happy for a much smaller scaled back free thing that actually represented detroit than some rave. the sponsors won't go for it. i'm so glad that corporations dictate what music matters in detroit. sorry, but f*ck that nonsense. paxahau knows what it's doing. you're absolutely correct on this one, they do. it could be better, it's certainly fair to criticize it, but it's hardly so bad that it deserves the over-the-top insults you're throwing at it. i'm frustrated with state of things in the USA too. Paxahau can't fix that. instead of being the solution they are part of the problem. that is going to solve a lot. Regarding another festival...why does it have to be at Hart Plaza memorial day weekend? That's a huge space that involves a crapload of logistical obstacles (traffic, security, electricity/sound/gear for outdoors etc etc etc), and it's not the best timing either (summer vacations haven't yet started for most). I'd love to see a big party/festival without any BS, I'm sure it could be done. Somebody find a space outside city limits where noise and fire ordinances don't apply, budget the performers carefully, have it running concurrent to the festival, that would be great. I am not cut out for big crowds and overpriced beer anyways. i would be perfectly fine for things to happen somewhere else, and i would prefer outdoors as well as it is just more fun that way. but it has to be in the city. the rave can go to the suburbs, thats where all the attendees are coming from anyway. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Well, the mistake is actually in calling it DEMF. It's not DEMF - it's Movement. Time for a paradigm shift. That's the biggest reason I see people getting upset about well, the first years were more Detroit The first years - meaning THE Detroit Electronic Music Festival (Pop Culture's production) WAS a celebration of Detroit's electronic music. What's going on now is a different festival called Movement. People are fooling themselves into thinking it's THE DEMF because it occupies the same date and space as the other festivals. There hasn't been any inheritance imo. THE DEMF stopped in 2003. That was the last year of The Detroit Electronic Music Festival. End of story. All the other festivals that have followed are officially titled by other names. for once I gotta agree with r3dshift - it's time to stop comparing Paxahau's Movement to The Detroit Electronic Music Festival (DEMF) if you continue to compare them you might as well compare the Hoe Down or the Jazz Fest to DEMF as well DEMF is... er, was, a celebration of Detroit Techno Movement isn't it's just another electronic music festival that just so happens to take place in Detroit because that's where the production company is located and there's a space available at this point - Movement could feasibly, well, move - to any other city and it would make about as much sense as it does now if you shift your thoughts and start to see Movement as Movement and not DEMF or THE DEMF you might possibly, like me, begin to not really be bothered by it Movement has not inherited the legacy of DEMF MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 05:57:31 PM: as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher / good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones I don't have a problem with any of those. I've known Mark since 1992, haven't seen MM but like some of his, and I have a pretty high regard for some of the LG output, which is made of sterner stuff than most west coast house these days. And of course Punisher has always been good when I've seen her, and remember she stood well above the relentless mediocrity at the underground stage one year. My bigger problem is the continuing de-focus on Detroit in the lineup. Yes, there are some Detroit area artists on the list, and good for them, but overall it just doesn't have the breadth and depth it should given who's within local driving distance of the festival. And this isn't just conjecture about what it could be, it's about what it was when you go back and look at the first couple of years. fh
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
and I have to agree with Tom here too - Paxahau is, cobbling two previous festival names together, confusing the punters into thinking they are going to the same festivals that occurred in 2000-2002, and 2003/04 It works in their favor but could be seen as trying to weasel their way into an inheritance that they just haven't earned they should have been honest with themselves and the audience and changed the name I can't help to think they're riding the coat tails with that title MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/22/2008 08:56:49 AM: On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, it's called Movement: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival. an amalgamation of the names previously used for the festival that was about detroit music. which is the problem. tom
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Moby, The Cool Kids, Dieselboy, Benny Benassi, Deadmau5, Girl Talk, James Zabiela. if that isnt the definition of a pedestrian rave, i dont know what is. it isn't and you don't. i was a raver. i went to something like 65 raves between 1993-1994. there are many festivals all over the country that really are outdoor raves. the detroit festival has certainly headed a bit in that direction. it's an insult to the great artists who still perform in abundance at the festival (hi shake) to say it's just another one of those festivals. it isn't, yet, and while I balked at Paxahau when they took over the festival, I don't think they will ever take Detroit's legacy and Detroit music out of the equation you list 7 names out of a roster of something like 100, with how many different stages now? 4? 5? you over generalize on one hand or pick and choose in order to make your argument, that doesn't fly with me. I heard from people whose taste i respect as highly as yours that last year's festival was one of the best since the first two. they acknowledged that there were a bunch of BS performers there but said they were mostly confined to one stage. they said they bounced from one great performance by a Detroit great to another, rattling off a long and impressive list -- the only two names that I can remember right now are Shake and Three Chairs, because I slept like sh%t last night, but they convinced me that rumors of the demise of the festival's greatness have been greatly exaggerated. then just dont do it at all. its better than being disingenuous at best, a profiteer at worst. Gimme a break. I understand yours and MEK's stance that somehow they are being disingenuous by using the DEMF name. Are there any other electronic festivals in Detroit? Then it is going to be widely known as the Detroit Electronic Music Festival whether they officially call it that or not. I think reading insidious designs into that are ridiculous. Who cares. i dont want that, like i said, i would be more happy for a much smaller scaled back free thing that actually represented detroit than some rave. Detroit is represented. American techno and house is represented. BS global DJ stars are represented too, unfortunately, but that's the state of things. Don't go to that tent. It does suck that you have to lower your expectations a bit. If you want to support good Detroit/American electronic music producers without dropping twice as much $$ to exit the country, this is your chance. Don't punish Shake because Dieselboy plays music for toolbags. i'm so glad that corporations dictate what music matters in detroit. sorry, but f*ck that nonsense. What music matters in Detroit? I don't understand that wording. They have control over what music gets exposure at the festival. They can't make people like it or make it resonate with Detroit. Otherwise, welcome to the world. Big events need big sponsors. That's been an element that hasn't increased at the festival, it's greatly diminished. The sponsorship was much more over the top in the first few years. Now it is hard enough to rustle up enough small sponsors to take a chance even with the addition of vetted mainstream BS. That's the state of electronic music in the USA right now. instead of being the solution they are part of the problem. that is going to solve a lot. Where else are you going to see all those Detroit artists (and some good stuff from Europe too, I'm sure) perform in the USA? The festival doesn't bring any money or attention to the city, really? Really? C'mon. i would be perfectly fine for things to happen somewhere else, and i would prefer outdoors as well as it is just more fun that way. but it has to be in the city. the rave can go to the suburbs, thats where all the attendees are coming from anyway. Well now you're talking politics not music. I am with you on a lot of the politics, probably, mostly. But there are also larger issues at hand to consider. Electronic music is in such dire shape in the USA that providing a platform for American electronic musicians is my primary concern.
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Look, the question of whether there has been one festival or several different festivals because there were different production companies just doesn't matter very much to me. It has been the same location, the same weekend, a lot of the same performers and much of the same audience year after year, though changes have occurred over time. At the same time there has obviously been a different approach and style that each production group has taken on. What matters to me is that the general trend is the decline in the relative weight given to Detroit-area DJs and live acts over the years. I like having the mix of locally based and international performers, I just would prefer the dial to be set a little differently on that mix. If you don't agree with me, fine. But I'm here to say there is no correct view of this. fh
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/22/2008 03:04:35 PM: Look, the question of whether there has been one festival or several different festivals because there were different production companies just doesn't matter very much to me. At the same time there has obviously been a different approach and style that each production group has taken on. What matters to me is that the general trend is the decline in the relative weight given to Detroit-area DJs and live acts over the years. Eh, yep - string these three together and you've got 1. there's been three different fests 2. three different fest production companies 3. a general trend in a decline of Detroit artist presence You're comparing apples and oranges You have to consider the festivals from each production company seperately - not as a whole string of the same event. It's fair to compare 2002 to 2001 but not 2008 to 2001 because the company in charge during 2001 had NOTHING to do with 2008's fest (and vise versa) each new production company is a new and different festival It just so happened that Pop Culture, Carl Craig, Derrick May, and Kevin Saunderson had a similar goal in mind it's Paxahau's Movement that isn't continuing the same trajectory and never did from the start of their production it's unfair to the previously mentioned producers to lump them in with Paxahau because I don't think they are cut from the same cloth By all signs given, Paxahau is *not* going to do a festival in the same vein as the others they are *not* going to return to a Detroit Electronic Music Festival style event like we had during the 2000-2002 span It does come down to the production company and their mission Each one has had a goal for the festival that was reflected in the line-ups Each production company has given different results My opinion is if you want a 2000-2002 style festival don't wait around for Paxahau to deliver it Three years in a row they've shown that they just aren't interested in doing it MEK
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
its MOVEMENT: DETROIT'S ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL if you dont understand what that means, you can't read and should unsub. nothing in that name insinuates a festival of detroit electronic music, but rather an electronic music festival in, and belonging to detroit. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Well, the mistake is actually in calling it DEMF. It's not DEMF - it's Movement. Time for a paradigm shift. That's the biggest reason I see people getting upset about well, the first years were more Detroit The first years - meaning THE Detroit Electronic Music Festival (Pop Culture's production) WAS a celebration of Detroit's electronic music. What's going on now is a different festival called Movement. People are fooling themselves into thinking it's THE DEMF because it occupies the same date and space as the other festivals. There hasn't been any inheritance imo. THE DEMF stopped in 2003. That was the last year of The Detroit Electronic Music Festival. End of story. All the other festivals that have followed are officially titled by other names. for once I gotta agree with r3dshift - it's time to stop comparing Paxahau's Movement to The Detroit Electronic Music Festival (DEMF) if you continue to compare them you might as well compare the Hoe Down or the Jazz Fest to DEMF as well DEMF is... er, was, a celebration of Detroit Techno Movement isn't it's just another electronic music festival that just so happens to take place in Detroit because that's where the production company is located and there's a space available at this point - Movement could feasibly, well, move - to any other city and it would make about as much sense as it does now if you shift your thoughts and start to see Movement as Movement and not DEMF or THE DEMF you might possibly, like me, begin to not really be bothered by it Movement has not inherited the legacy of DEMF MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 05:57:31 PM: as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher / good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones I don't have a problem with any of those. I've known Mark since 1992, haven't seen MM but like some of his, and I have a pretty high regard for some of the LG output, which is made of sterner stuff than most west coast house these days. And of course Punisher has always been good when I've seen her, and remember she stood well above the relentless mediocrity at the underground stage one year. My bigger problem is the continuing de-focus on Detroit in the lineup. Yes, there are some Detroit area artists on the list, and good for them, but overall it just doesn't have the breadth and depth it should given who's within local driving distance of the festival. And this isn't just conjecture about what it could be, it's about what it was when you go back and look at the first couple of years. fh
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Damn... Sonar gotta book only Barcelona native artists, from now on. On 22/04/2008, at 19:24, /0 wrote: its MOVEMENT: DETROIT'S ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL if you dont understand what that means, you can't read and should unsub. nothing in that name insinuates a festival of detroit electronic music, but rather an electronic music festival in, and belonging to detroit. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Well, the mistake is actually in calling it DEMF. It's not DEMF - it's Movement. Time for a paradigm shift. That's the biggest reason I see people getting upset about well, the first years were more Detroit The first years - meaning THE Detroit Electronic Music Festival (Pop Culture's production) WAS a celebration of Detroit's electronic music. What's going on now is a different festival called Movement. People are fooling themselves into thinking it's THE DEMF because it occupies the same date and space as the other festivals. There hasn't been any inheritance imo. THE DEMF stopped in 2003. That was the last year of The Detroit Electronic Music Festival. End of story. All the other festivals that have followed are officially titled by other names. for once I gotta agree with r3dshift - it's time to stop comparing Paxahau's Movement to The Detroit Electronic Music Festival (DEMF) if you continue to compare them you might as well compare the Hoe Down or the Jazz Fest to DEMF as well DEMF is... er, was, a celebration of Detroit Techno Movement isn't it's just another electronic music festival that just so happens to take place in Detroit because that's where the production company is located and there's a space available at this point - Movement could feasibly, well, move - to any other city and it would make about as much sense as it does now if you shift your thoughts and start to see Movement as Movement and not DEMF or THE DEMF you might possibly, like me, begin to not really be bothered by it Movement has not inherited the legacy of DEMF MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 05:57:31 PM: as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher / good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones I don't have a problem with any of those. I've known Mark since 1992, haven't seen MM but like some of his, and I have a pretty high regard for some of the LG output, which is made of sterner stuff than most west coast house these days. And of course Punisher has always been good when I've seen her, and remember she stood well above the relentless mediocrity at the underground stage one year. My bigger problem is the continuing de-focus on Detroit in the lineup. Yes, there are some Detroit area artists on the list, and good for them, but overall it just doesn't have the breadth and depth it should given who's within local driving distance of the festival. And this isn't just conjecture about what it could be, it's about what it was when you go back and look at the first couple of years. fh
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Damn... Sonar gotta book only Barcelona native artists, from now on. that would be tre' painful. +odd -- On Apr 22, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Kowalsky wrote: Damn... Sonar gotta book only Barcelona native artists, from now on. On 22/04/2008, at 19:24, /0 wrote: its MOVEMENT: DETROIT'S ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL if you dont understand what that means, you can't read and should unsub. nothing in that name insinuates a festival of detroit electronic music, but rather an electronic music festival in, and belonging to detroit. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Well, the mistake is actually in calling it DEMF. It's not DEMF - it's Movement. Time for a paradigm shift. That's the biggest reason I see people getting upset about well, the first years were more Detroit The first years - meaning THE Detroit Electronic Music Festival (Pop Culture's production) WAS a celebration of Detroit's electronic music. What's going on now is a different festival called Movement. People are fooling themselves into thinking it's THE DEMF because it occupies the same date and space as the other festivals. There hasn't been any inheritance imo. THE DEMF stopped in 2003. That was the last year of The Detroit Electronic Music Festival. End of story. All the other festivals that have followed are officially titled by other names. for once I gotta agree with r3dshift - it's time to stop comparing Paxahau's Movement to The Detroit Electronic Music Festival (DEMF) if you continue to compare them you might as well compare the Hoe Down or the Jazz Fest to DEMF as well DEMF is... er, was, a celebration of Detroit Techno Movement isn't it's just another electronic music festival that just so happens to take place in Detroit because that's where the production company is located and there's a space available at this point - Movement could feasibly, well, move - to any other city and it would make about as much sense as it does now if you shift your thoughts and start to see Movement as Movement and not DEMF or THE DEMF you might possibly, like me, begin to not really be bothered by it Movement has not inherited the legacy of DEMF MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 05:57:31 PM: as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher / good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones I don't have a problem with any of those. I've known Mark since 1992, haven't seen MM but like some of his, and I have a pretty high regard for some of the LG output, which is made of sterner stuff than most west coast house these days. And of course Punisher has always been good when I've seen her, and remember she stood well above the relentless mediocrity at the underground stage one year. My bigger problem is the continuing de-focus on Detroit in the lineup. Yes, there are some Detroit area artists on the list, and good for them, but overall it just doesn't have the breadth and depth it should given who's within local driving distance of the festival. And this isn't just conjecture about what it could be, it's about what it was when you go back and look at the first couple of years. fh
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Michael, you get it. respect, - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/22/2008 03:04:35 PM: Look, the question of whether there has been one festival or several different festivals because there were different production companies just doesn't matter very much to me. At the same time there has obviously been a different approach and style that each production group has taken on. What matters to me is that the general trend is the decline in the relative weight given to Detroit-area DJs and live acts over the years. Eh, yep - string these three together and you've got 1. there's been three different fests 2. three different fest production companies 3. a general trend in a decline of Detroit artist presence You're comparing apples and oranges You have to consider the festivals from each production company seperately - not as a whole string of the same event. It's fair to compare 2002 to 2001 but not 2008 to 2001 because the company in charge during 2001 had NOTHING to do with 2008's fest (and vise versa) each new production company is a new and different festival It just so happened that Pop Culture, Carl Craig, Derrick May, and Kevin Saunderson had a similar goal in mind it's Paxahau's Movement that isn't continuing the same trajectory and never did from the start of their production it's unfair to the previously mentioned producers to lump them in with Paxahau because I don't think they are cut from the same cloth By all signs given, Paxahau is *not* going to do a festival in the same vein as the others they are *not* going to return to a Detroit Electronic Music Festival style event like we had during the 2000-2002 span It does come down to the production company and their mission Each one has had a goal for the festival that was reflected in the line-ups Each production company has given different results My opinion is if you want a 2000-2002 style festival don't wait around for Paxahau to deliver it Three years in a row they've shown that they just aren't interested in doing it MEK
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
LOL zing :p - Original Message - From: Kowalsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [313] 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Damn... Sonar gotta book only Barcelona native artists, from now on. On 22/04/2008, at 19:24, /0 wrote: its MOVEMENT: DETROIT'S ELECTRONIC MUSIC FESTIVAL if you dont understand what that means, you can't read and should unsub. nothing in that name insinuates a festival of detroit electronic music, but rather an electronic music festival in, and belonging to detroit. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Well, the mistake is actually in calling it DEMF. It's not DEMF - it's Movement. Time for a paradigm shift. That's the biggest reason I see people getting upset about well, the first years were more Detroit The first years - meaning THE Detroit Electronic Music Festival (Pop Culture's production) WAS a celebration of Detroit's electronic music. What's going on now is a different festival called Movement. People are fooling themselves into thinking it's THE DEMF because it occupies the same date and space as the other festivals. There hasn't been any inheritance imo. THE DEMF stopped in 2003. That was the last year of The Detroit Electronic Music Festival. End of story. All the other festivals that have followed are officially titled by other names. for once I gotta agree with r3dshift - it's time to stop comparing Paxahau's Movement to The Detroit Electronic Music Festival (DEMF) if you continue to compare them you might as well compare the Hoe Down or the Jazz Fest to DEMF as well DEMF is... er, was, a celebration of Detroit Techno Movement isn't it's just another electronic music festival that just so happens to take place in Detroit because that's where the production company is located and there's a space available at this point - Movement could feasibly, well, move - to any other city and it would make about as much sense as it does now if you shift your thoughts and start to see Movement as Movement and not DEMF or THE DEMF you might possibly, like me, begin to not really be bothered by it Movement has not inherited the legacy of DEMF MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 05:57:31 PM: as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher / good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones I don't have a problem with any of those. I've known Mark since 1992, haven't seen MM but like some of his, and I have a pretty high regard for some of the LG output, which is made of sterner stuff than most west coast house these days. And of course Punisher has always been good when I've seen her, and remember she stood well above the relentless mediocrity at the underground stage one year. My bigger problem is the continuing de-focus on Detroit in the lineup. Yes, there are some Detroit area artists on the list, and good for them, but overall it just doesn't have the breadth and depth it should given who's within local driving distance of the festival. And this isn't just conjecture about what it could be, it's about what it was when you go back and look at the first couple of years. fh
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
You're right Tom, it's gonna suck this year, you better just stay in PA, where all the real parties happen. OMG THERE IS NO 24 HOUR KDJ/THEO STAGE1 - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:56 AM Subject: Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, it's called Movement: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival. an amalgamation of the names previously used for the festival that was about detroit music. which is the problem. so i guess, if you want, you CAN see it as Big Rave X, big rave that happens to be in Detroit but we're going around in circles again... what circle is that? the only thing happening is the appropriation of name, music, and place by white people of a largely black culture. yes, we are going around that circle yet again, but this time it is happening in Hart plaza instead of in Europe. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones which is the good one?? inquiring minds want to know. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
well, if I had to pick one out of them all I'd go with Punisher I've come around to some of her tunes (when I'm in the mood for harder stuff) granted I haven't witnessed her DJ MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 10:30:11 AM: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones which is the good one?? inquiring minds want to know. tom
RE: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Out of those acts Punisher is definitely The good one. Her dj skills are tight. Tim / Planet Detroit The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:56 AM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well, if I had to pick one out of them all I'd go with Punisher I've come around to some of her tunes (when I'm in the mood for harder stuff) granted I haven't witnessed her DJ MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 10:30:11 AM: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones which is the good one?? inquiring minds want to know. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
saw punisher in chicago years ago. pretty boring and typical tracks. maybe thats just that one time and place. miles has some fantastic mixtapes from back in the day, one was sunshower i think. heavy thick and rich old style deep house. i love him and i am no house head. On 4/21/08, Steward, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out of those acts Punisher is definitely The good one. Her dj skills are tight. Tim / Planet Detroit The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:56 AM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well, if I had to pick one out of them all I'd go with Punisher I've come around to some of her tunes (when I'm in the mood for harder stuff) granted I haven't witnessed her DJ MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 10:30:11 AM: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones which is the good one?? inquiring minds want to know. tom -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
regardless, there are appropriate performers, if not superstars. not like some ironic mash up, unless its detroit mash up. On 4/21/08, Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: saw punisher in chicago years ago. pretty boring and typical tracks. maybe thats just that one time and place. miles has some fantastic mixtapes from back in the day, one was sunshower i think. heavy thick and rich old style deep house. i love him and i am no house head. On 4/21/08, Steward, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out of those acts Punisher is definitely The good one. Her dj skills are tight. Tim / Planet Detroit The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:56 AM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well, if I had to pick one out of them all I'd go with Punisher I've come around to some of her tunes (when I'm in the mood for harder stuff) granted I haven't witnessed her DJ MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 10:30:11 AM: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones which is the good one?? inquiring minds want to know. tom -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
seconded. will be nice to see farina, after he didnt make it in year 2. maeda might be fun too - Original Message - From: Steward, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: RE: (313) 4 more Movement acts Out of those acts Punisher is definitely The good one. Her dj skills are tight. Tim / Planet Detroit The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:56 AM To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well, if I had to pick one out of them all I'd go with Punisher I've come around to some of her tunes (when I'm in the mood for harder stuff) granted I haven't witnessed her DJ MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/21/2008 10:30:11 AM: On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones which is the good one?? inquiring minds want to know. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
none of them. dont bother coming. - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones which is the good one?? inquiring minds want to know. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher / good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones I don't have a problem with any of those. I've known Mark since 1992, haven't seen MM but like some of his, and I have a pretty high regard for some of the LG output, which is made of sterner stuff than most west coast house these days. And of course Punisher has always been good when I've seen her, and remember she stood well above the relentless mediocrity at the underground stage one year. My bigger problem is the continuing de-focus on Detroit in the lineup. Yes, there are some Detroit area artists on the list, and good for them, but overall it just doesn't have the breadth and depth it should given who's within local driving distance of the festival. And this isn't just conjecture about what it could be, it's about what it was when you go back and look at the first couple of years. fh
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Mark Farina Lawnchair Generals Miles Maeda Punisher / good god - for every one good act they add three crap ones I don't have a problem with any of those. I've known Mark since 1992, haven't seen MM but like some of his, and I have a pretty high regard for some of the LG output, which is made of sterner stuff than most west coast house these days. And of course Punisher has always been good when I've seen her, and remember she stood well above the relentless mediocrity at the underground stage one year. My bigger problem is the continuing de-focus on Detroit in the lineup. Yes, there are some Detroit area artists on the list, and good for them, but overall it just doesn't have the breadth and depth it should given who's within local driving distance of the festival. And this isn't just conjecture about what it could be, it's about what it was when you go back and look at the first couple of years. fh
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:57 PM, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit electronic music is not just techno, and it is not any one subgenre either. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. no. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups what needs to happen is that you need to move to a city where you can see all the crap artists that you miss out on all the time, and leave this list and detroit music alone. tom
Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
ok tom, refute my claim and tell me who has more resident playing at demf than detroit? at least 25 percent of the lineup are people I can go see any weekend of the year, which means they are local. maybe if you cry enough, paxahau will book theo and kdj on 2 staged for 12 hours a day, for all 3 days. oh wouldn't that lead to a fun thread on 313. - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:57 PM, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit electronic music is not just techno, and it is not any one subgenre either. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. no. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups what needs to happen is that you need to move to a city where you can see all the crap artists that you miss out on all the time, and leave this list and detroit music alone. tom
Fw: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. Maybe somewhere else someone is demanding that Movement 2008: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival be only about Detroit techmo. But not here. The prevalent view on 313@hyperreal.org has always been that the festival works best when it represents -all- of Detroit's electronic music diversity, not just techno. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:31 -0400 as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big deal, so you wont like every act, but without the other 75 percent, the 25 percent you want wouldnt have a festival to play at. and for every 313 member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. again, it is detroit's electronic music festival. not the detroit electronic music festival. furthermore, it's pretty obvious that its not a festival dedicated to detroit music. even the first blessed years were not as detroit-centric as it could have been. and thank god for that. - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: Fw: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. Maybe somewhere else someone is demanding that Movement 2008: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival be only about Detroit techmo. But not here. The prevalent view on 313@hyperreal.org has always been that the festival works best when it represents -all- of Detroit's electronic music diversity, not just techno. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:31 -0400 as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups
Fw: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
well then the prevalent view here is wrong So it always seems coming from you. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:22:42 -0400 well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big deal, so you wont like every act, but without the other 75 percent, the 25 percent you want wouldnt have a festival to play at. and for every 313 member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. again, it is detroit's electronic music festival. not the detroit electronic music festival. furthermore, it's pretty obvious that its not a festival dedicated to detroit music. even the first blessed years were not as detroit-centric as it could have been. and thank god for that. - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: Fw: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. Maybe somewhere else someone is demanding that Movement 2008: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival be only about Detroit techmo. But not here. The prevalent view on 313@hyperreal.org has always been that the festival works best when it represents -all- of Detroit's electronic music diversity, not just techno. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:31 -0400 as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups
Re: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. -Fred Heutte - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Fw: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts well then the prevalent view here is wrong So it always seems coming from you. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:22:42 -0400 well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big deal, so you wont like every act, but without the other 75 percent, the 25 percent you want wouldnt have a festival to play at. and for every 313 member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. again, it is detroit's electronic music festival. not the detroit electronic music festival. furthermore, it's pretty obvious that its not a festival dedicated to detroit music. even the first blessed years were not as detroit-centric as it could have been. and thank god for that. - Original Message - From: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: Fw: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts It would be at least borderline interesting if you would respond to what I actually wrote. Maybe somewhere else someone is demanding that Movement 2008: Detroit's Electronic Music Festival be only about Detroit techmo. But not here. The prevalent view on 313@hyperreal.org has always been that the festival works best when it represents -all- of Detroit's electronic music diversity, not just techno. fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /0 Subject: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:31 -0400 as has been said, its not a detroit techno festival, its detroits electronic music festival. and Im glad. a yearly festival dedicated to any sub-genre would get boring and increasingly hard to market. detroit has more people on the lineup than any one other city by FAR, so you, being a fan of detroit techno, should be happy with that. this list needs to snap out of this demf-is-a-celebration-of-detroit-techno mindset, because it just leads to cyclical wastes of time in the form of all this whining about lineups
Re: Re: (313) 4 more Movement acts
well then the prevalent view here is wrong. the festival works best when it books diverse acts to pays its bills and perpetuate its own existence. big There is no evidence to support the assumption that booking more artists outside of the Detroit tradition improves the success of the festival. There is in fact evidence that the festivals that were about Detroit's electronic music legacy had much larger attendance -- there is no way to know how many of those people would have attended had it not been free, but it's fairly safe to assume that the first few festivals would have been the greatest successes had an entry fee been charged and had the festivals been competently managed. The sponsorship was there (selling the festival as Detroit Techno all over TV, to boot), mainstream media was there, the initial excitement was there, the widespread local appeal was there. The only thing borne out as a more successful approach in the past few years is the charging of an entry fee and a much more competent management of the festival in general. You aren't going to convince anybody jumping to conclusions that aren't borne out. You can only claim Paxahau's festival would be less successful as a Detroit-centric festival if they throw one and it is decisively less successful. You may well be right (I think you are) considering the trends in electronic music these days, but they haven't had that festival to prove it, yet. member that wants that 25 percent, there is someone out there looking for the dnb stuff they are booking, or this or that. just because YOU dont dig it, doesn't mean its invalid and has no place at the festival. That's certainly true enough, but helllooo McFly, why the hell are you on the Detroit Techno mailing list if you don't think Detroit's legacy is more important, ultimately more culturally relevant, than global superstar dj's or the newest hype for the majority of people attending. There has to be a balance between commerce and art/culture, but considering it's Detroit, and the only electronic music festival in Detroit, I think it's reasonable to expect there will be an undercurrent to the festival that celebrates Detroit's legacy. I don't think Paxahau has failed to address that, but as Detroit Techno devotees we want more, we want Paxahau to have the balls to risk it's ass to throw another Detroit-centric festival, now that they have put in place proper management. It is a bit unreasonable. Paxahau's business smarts that dictates the festival goes increasingly in a different direction -- the cultural relevance has been minim(al)ized, because I'm afraid electronic music, especially American electronic music, has suffered tremendously in the last 7 years. It would be crazy to throw a festival like the first few festivals again given that no one (comparatively) in America is buying Techno, and maybe more importantly look at the output of Detroit (and America in general). Paxahau is smart and they have probably judged the market correctly. You gotta get the kids there. There ain't many heads among the kids these days. The heads have jobs, kids, old fogie legs that don't dance so good no more...The kids ain't got no responsibilities and are much more carefree about burning through their dough. The majority just wanna party. Perhaps they would be open to learning about why Detroit's legacy is so important and unique to electronic music. But there is no real exciting reason why they would care to learn. The infrastructure to put Detroit/American electronic music culture in the public eye and make it compelling just isn't there. /0 may be obnoxious (ain't we all sometimes), but I'm afraid he's right. That said I'm attending if it's within my budget (plane tickets and gas = megabux right now) and a lot of friends of mine who have never gone before -- heads even -- want to go this year. It's the best we have and it's not going to improve if it's not nurtured. I believe things will come back around, and besides it's the best opportunity we Americans have to see so many artists we like in one place, without using a passport. And if the festival ain't up to snuff for you, you can shift your attention to soaking up the city and hanging out with seldom-seen friends...It depends on your budget etc whether it's worth it or not -- if budget isn't a primary consideration, absolutely it is... I miss Detroit a lot...
