Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
on thsi whole tiesto tip... i happen to be reviewing his new cd right now, and to my considerable suprise, track 2 definately sounds like somethign i can picture a lot of 313 DJs playing, sans the little breakdown in the middle. sean's track is coming up next. should be intersting. but if this is what people are dancing too these days, i'd say it's a damn site better than the trance of a few years back. On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Michael Lees wrote: > > Hello 313, > > We all know who the only common enemy is in the USA. It's the UK crap > > trance dj's that have bled the USA dry. And why ? Because the sheep in the > > USA consume that crap. > > I think Fred sums it up best here, music isn't controlled by talent or > originality it's publicity,exposure and fashion. Djs aren't booked on > their talent, it's their name. I'm afraid its the way of the world :) > > I personally agree with Mani's sentiments completely and I applaud his > actions, where he fails however is in his 'mission statement'. To me > it's not EU artists to blame but rather the US promoters who pay these > artists? Which I understand from Mike's emails, Mani includes(or rather > did) himself part of. Then again an artist is only worth what a promoter > is willing to pay and a promoter is willing to pay only what he can make > back it's sh*t. > > I'm yet to understand what people are trying to achieve with this > boycott? Do you want US DJs to be making as much money as tietso et al.? > Perhaps someone can explain the ideal goal, it is just a bit more money, > a lot more money, what exactly? > > Oh and what I don't understand is why this was posted to 313 where > clearly everyone on the list "pays homage" to US music? > > -Mike > > This message has been scanned but we cannot guarantee that it and any > attachments are free from viruses or other damaging content: you are > advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > >
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
hi again, certain american artists can only make like 2-300 bucks in Chicago while Adam Beyer, Surgeon come here to America and get paid 5000 bucks plus a 5 star plus business class airfare.. hmm, if we swap American/America - British/Britain and Adam Beyer - Rolando, Chicago- leeds, Nottingham, London? It works both ways. -Mike This message has been scanned but we cannot guarantee that it and any attachments are free from viruses or other damaging content: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
Hello 313, We all know who the only common enemy is in the USA. It's the UK crap trance dj's that have bled the USA dry. And why ? Because the sheep in the USA consume that crap. I think Fred sums it up best here, music isn't controlled by talent or originality it's publicity,exposure and fashion. Djs aren't booked on their talent, it's their name. I'm afraid its the way of the world :) I personally agree with Mani's sentiments completely and I applaud his actions, where he fails however is in his 'mission statement'. To me it's not EU artists to blame but rather the US promoters who pay these artists? Which I understand from Mike's emails, Mani includes(or rather did) himself part of. Then again an artist is only worth what a promoter is willing to pay and a promoter is willing to pay only what he can make back it's sh*t. I'm yet to understand what people are trying to achieve with this boycott? Do you want US DJs to be making as much money as tietso et al.? Perhaps someone can explain the ideal goal, it is just a bit more money, a lot more money, what exactly? Oh and what I don't understand is why this was posted to 313 where clearly everyone on the list "pays homage" to US music? -Mike This message has been scanned but we cannot guarantee that it and any attachments are free from viruses or other damaging content: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.
RE: (313) US vs. EU crap....
> >SO if anyone happens to know MLWTTKC or Moroder, might want to drop them a >line. Seems like folks are getting straight ripped off. Or maybe these >fools have their heads so far up their own a**es that they don't know what >'written' means. > Please in all seriousness, if anyone knows em, do it. Sniper shot against blatant rip-offs (not to mention crap music). k
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
I think he's *everywhere* period. ;( > F**king Tiesto!!! > Pisses me off that he's everywhere in the US right now. MTV is crazy for him > apparently. I went to a bar last night and they had one of his videos on the > big screen. a couple months back I'm flipping through the TV channels and > come across the Ultraschall (sp?) Pay Per View concert with Tiesto > headlining, and off course the exact moment I tune it in he's playing that > f*cking "Traffic" track! The last thing I needed to hear was my own music > coming out of my TV on a PPV special with Tiesto taking credit for composing > it! oh well. the crowd of 40,000 people on the beach in Miami, where it was > filmed, seemed to really enjoy the track. would it have killed him to say > "this is track I swiped from Sean Deason" before he played it? a little > gratitude is all I'm asking. > > :^) > > sean deason > > on 10/2/04 4:07 AM, Jason Brunton at [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered these words: > >> Hey- most of those Trance guys are Dutch- ask KJ!!:) >
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
P.S. Aww hold up...the real question is why you got to say you 'love black people"? As if you don't or sumthin'. = ) On Saturday, October 2, 2004, at 05:54 PM, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: p.s. "I LOVE BLACK PEOPLE!" andythepooh.com
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
ROFL I knew someone will say that. It was given to me, man. Its a pretty interesting dvd in terms of how the two scenes compare besides the same ole' "I hate Trance" mantra. Its not all bad, there was a couple high points in it. Tiesto played a couple good tracksI thought: Literon/Speedy J - Collabs 200: Snacker, Carnival by Cave and the bit where there was a live male and female didgeridoo players over a nice drum track (De Jonge & Beijerinck - Didjerrydoo). But I agree with ya and hoped that Sean got some moolah for it. -m. On Saturday, October 2, 2004, at 05:54 PM, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: -- Original Message -- From: marina pure sonik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hey Sean, Funny you mention this because I got this dvd of a Tiesto concert and it does have that 'Traffic' track you spoke about and it does give you credit. I've been wanting to ask you about it but didn't for fear of flamebait! LOL = ) Its called Tiesto in Concert: May 10th 2003 at the Gelredome Arnhem. Check it out. im not even going to ask why you have that in the first place. but anyway, f*ck credit, they need to show him the money. tom p.s. "I LOVE BLACK PEOPLE!" andythepooh.com
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
-- Original Message -- From: marina pure sonik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Hey Sean, > >Funny you mention this because I got this dvd of a Tiesto concert and >it does have that 'Traffic' track you spoke about and it does give you >credit. I've been wanting to ask you about it but didn't for fear of >flamebait! LOL = ) > >Its called Tiesto in Concert: May 10th 2003 at the Gelredome Arnhem. >Check it out. im not even going to ask why you have that in the first place. but anyway, f*ck credit, they need to show him the money. tom p.s. "I LOVE BLACK PEOPLE!" andythepooh.com
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
Hey Sean, Funny you mention this because I got this dvd of a Tiesto concert and it does have that 'Traffic' track you spoke about and it does give you credit. I've been wanting to ask you about it but didn't for fear of flamebait! LOL = ) Its called Tiesto in Concert: May 10th 2003 at the Gelredome Arnhem. Check it out. --Marina On Saturday, October 2, 2004, at 06:43 AM, SeanDeason© wrote: F**king Tiesto!!! Pisses me off that he's everywhere in the US right now. MTV is crazy for him apparently. I went to a bar last night and they had one of his videos on the big screen. a couple months back I'm flipping through the TV channels and come across the Ultraschall (sp?) Pay Per View concert with Tiesto headlining, and off course the exact moment I tune it in he's playing that f*cking "Traffic" track! The last thing I needed to hear was my own music coming out of my TV on a PPV special with Tiesto taking credit for composing it! oh well. the crowd of 40,000 people on the beach in Miami, where it was filmed, seemed to really enjoy the track. would it have killed him to say "this is track I swiped from Sean Deason" before he played it? a little gratitude is all I'm asking. :^) sean deason on 10/2/04 4:07 AM, Jason Brunton at [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered these words: Hey- most of those Trance guys are Dutch- ask KJ!!:)
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
don't feel too bad sean. i was reviewing the new dj irene mix yesterday (and y'all though my job was nothing but fun) and i notice that her 'versions' of "Sex on Wheelz" and "Da Chase" are credited in the liner notes as 'written and produced by G.Cesteno' (Irenes production partner). WRITTEN!!?? its friggin Thrill Kill Cult and Giorgio Moroder. And these aren't even different from the originals. basically sampled the main parts, added a hard house beat and be done with it. i don't know who got paid what and what got cleared how, but WRITTEN!? These DJs are getting to be like Republicans: if we keep saying its true, then it will eventually be so. reality be d*mned. SO if anyone happens to know MLWTTKC or Moroder, might want to drop them a line. Seems like folks are getting straight ripped off. Or maybe these fools have their heads so far up their own a**es that they don't know what 'written' means. On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, SeanDeason[ISO-8859-1] ? wrote: > F**king Tiesto!!! > Pisses me off that he's everywhere in the US right now. MTV is crazy for him > apparently. I went to a bar last night and they had one of his videos on the > big screen. a couple months back I'm flipping through the TV channels and > come across the Ultraschall (sp?) Pay Per View concert with Tiesto > headlining, and off course the exact moment I tune it in he's playing that > f*cking "Traffic" track! The last thing I needed to hear was my own music > coming out of my TV on a PPV special with Tiesto taking credit for composing > it! oh well. the crowd of 40,000 people on the beach in Miami, where it was > filmed, seemed to really enjoy the track. would it have killed him to say > "this is track I swiped from Sean Deason" before he played it? a little > gratitude is all I'm asking. > > :^) > > sean deason > > on 10/2/04 4:07 AM, Jason Brunton at [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered these words: > > > Hey- most of those Trance guys are Dutch- ask KJ!!:) > >
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
F**king Tiesto!!! Pisses me off that he's everywhere in the US right now. MTV is crazy for him apparently. I went to a bar last night and they had one of his videos on the big screen. a couple months back I'm flipping through the TV channels and come across the Ultraschall (sp?) Pay Per View concert with Tiesto headlining, and off course the exact moment I tune it in he's playing that f*cking "Traffic" track! The last thing I needed to hear was my own music coming out of my TV on a PPV special with Tiesto taking credit for composing it! oh well. the crowd of 40,000 people on the beach in Miami, where it was filmed, seemed to really enjoy the track. would it have killed him to say "this is track I swiped from Sean Deason" before he played it? a little gratitude is all I'm asking. :^) sean deason on 10/2/04 4:07 AM, Jason Brunton at [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered these words: > Hey- most of those Trance guys are Dutch- ask KJ!!:)
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
Hey- most of those Trance guys are Dutch- ask KJ!!:) Jason On 2 Oct 2004, at 02:14, FRED giannelli wrote: guys, guys, guys stop the madness. We all know who the only common enemy is in the USA. It's the UK crap trance dj's that have bled the USA dry. And why ? Because the sheep in the USA consume that crap. In Boston it's the Euro students that seem richer than any of the natives that have the horrendous taste in that rubbish. Either way, it's rubbish and no amount of exposure to something with a little more substance will convert people with bad taste. None of the artists that either of you have mentioned have even come close in the earnings that a terrible UK trance DJ can rape from USA promoters. Why fight over the crumbs when you should be blowing up the bakery ? Unfortunately, many in the USA must come to the point where we reach a horrible realization. The lunatics are in control of the asylum. The USA is a lost cause and if you can afford it you move to Berlin. And if you can't, you suffer. I don't know if many of you remember the kooky letter I sent to XLR8R years ago where I poked fun @ Oakenfold. Well, after that got published, for at least 2 years kids would still come up to me saying thanks for writing what I did and congratulating me like I was some American folk hero for expressing what I felt. UK people were amazed that a magazine would publish my unkind words knowing that no UK magazine could afford to publish something so harsh and alienate their advertising clients in the manner XLR8R did. A little while after that I was introduced to a girl in a club who worked @ XLR8R. I forget her name, but I was going through some crap Boston club and Christopher Lawrence was playing in it and I was hearing the same kind of crap that I criticized in my letter. Turns out this girl was Australian and Christopher Lawrence's wife. So I mentioned my letter and she came at it from a completely different angle. She felt that UK trance dj's were making all the $ while the USA trance dj's with just as much skill were being deprived of making a living and success in the USA. So I guess my letter to XLR8R went completely over her head as she thanked me and interpreted what I was saying by my letter as backing up her point of view. I'm not sure if any of you are getting my point, so here it is. The only guy worth attacking is the guy with the . As I sit in my tiny, cluttered, sh*tty apt. in Salem, MA while UK trance plonkers live comfortably from the earnings that their bad taste and lack of creativity rewarded them with. I certainly don't resent any of the artists that either of you have mentioned in your messages. So have a good weekend and try a little terrorist activity against your local peddler of bad electronic music and those that consume it. telepathic regards, the kooky scientist on 10/1/04 8:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Renegade808 wrote: brother, i haven't even begun to attack you. once again josh you never seem to disapointyou can have your opinions all you want who cares so can everyone else but this is how mani chooses to conduct his agency and he has the support of alot of people (maybe not on this list). i think its funny you choose to attack me but if thats how you do things then i dont care. i was asked by mani to post the email to begin with so thats that You're right, I wasn't there. But if Mike told Mani he was doing the right thing than he should just say that (although I don't name drop personal contacts to try to justify my actions) As for Mike, I don't think he's above making a wise crack about outside DJs who get paid more than his American peeps, but it's unfortunate that someone would twist that into his own tirade. nothing was twisted you were not there when that conversation took place. your the one assuming you know what mike said and if you care about it so much you go ask mike what he thinks of the surgeon or adam and i am sure he would be glad to tell you good or bad it's self important and obnoxious, any way you cut it. to attack mani personally is just stupid...because someone tries to change the way they do business and with who they do business with.improving the techno scene in america was not a realization mani came to in his home land, it is just one of the many realizations he has had recentlywhats wrong with that??? only you're allowd to start with opinions, dissing people who i consider vital talent in techno? I didn't say anything bad about Murat, why would you talk so much trash about Beyer or Surgeon in response? I actually like Murat a lot as a person, and see him around somewhat frequently, althouh i'll admit that somehow i've never heard him DJ even though he played at my former club several times. You started with some blatent;y negative comments and i responded with
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
[EMAIL PROTECTED] > and dissing other foreign djs because of your own sour grapes (beyer > and surgeon) doesn't help your argument. especially considering that > both, in my professional experience, were very good to work with. Yeah, I really think the whole problem started because you picked two of the best (from a DJ/producer standpoint) and nicest people out there as your examples. I'd be surprised if anybody could tell me anything bad about either of them, since they've been amazing people whenever I've interacted with them and they've played jaw-dropping sets whenever I've seen them play. And, also, I have to step in here on the other side of the argument. I can completely see where Mani's coming from in his saying what he did. I think it's right to book some domestic (and even local) talent, because it really does have a tendency to be overlooked. The problem isn't with the foreign talent, though, it's with the people who are trained to believe that foreign artists are good and domestic are just openers. -- :: atomly :: [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ... [ e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for atomly info and updates ...
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
i see your point fred, although i've accepted bad music as a fact of american life. boston is the same in LA, and also what i've seen in big clubs in SF, NYC and DC, that a major portion of the crowd is foreign anyways. they're just doing in the us what they grew up doing in europe, where djs are pop stars. then again- the girls tend to be better looking, so it's a trade. On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, FRED giannelli wrote: > guys, guys, guys stop the madness. > > We all know who the only common enemy is in the USA. It's the UK crap > trance dj's that have bled the USA dry. And why ? Because the sheep in the > USA consume that crap. In Boston it's the Euro students that seem richer > than any of the natives that have the horrendous taste in that rubbish. > Either way, it's rubbish and no amount of exposure to something with a > little more substance will convert people with bad taste. > > None of the artists that either of you have mentioned have even come close > in the earnings that a terrible UK trance DJ can rape from USA promoters. > Why fight over the crumbs when you should be blowing up the bakery ? > > Unfortunately, many in the USA must come to the point where we reach a > horrible realization. The lunatics are in control of the asylum. The USA > is a lost cause and if you can afford it you move to Berlin. And if you > can't, you suffer. > > I don't know if many of you remember the kooky letter I sent to XLR8R years > ago where I poked fun @ Oakenfold. > > Well, after that got published, for at least 2 years kids would still come > up to me saying thanks for writing what I did and congratulating me like I > was some American folk hero for expressing what I felt. UK people were > amazed that a magazine would publish my unkind words knowing that no UK > magazine could afford to publish something so harsh and alienate their > advertising clients in the manner XLR8R did. > > A little while after that I was introduced to a girl in a club who worked @ > XLR8R. I forget her name, but I was going through some crap Boston club and > Christopher Lawrence was playing in it and I was hearing the same kind of > crap that I criticized in my letter. Turns out this girl was Australian and > Christopher Lawrence's wife. So I mentioned my letter and she came at it > from a completely different angle. She felt that UK trance dj's were making > all the $ while the USA trance dj's with just as much skill were being > deprived of making a living and success in the USA. > > So I guess my letter to XLR8R went completely over her head as she thanked > me and interpreted what I was saying by my letter as backing up her point of > view. > > I'm not sure if any of you are getting my point, so here it is. The only > guy worth attacking is the guy with the . > > As I sit in my tiny, cluttered, sh*tty apt. in Salem, MA while UK trance > plonkers live comfortably from the earnings that their bad taste and lack of > creativity rewarded them with. I certainly don't resent any of the artists > that either of you have mentioned in your messages. > > So have a good weekend and try a little terrorist activity against your > local peddler of bad electronic music and those that consume it. > > telepathic regards, > the kooky scientist > > > > on 10/1/04 8:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Renegade808 wrote: > > > > > > brother, i haven't even begun to attack you. > > > >> once again josh you never seem to disapointyou can have your opinions > >> all you want who cares so can everyone else but this is how mani chooses > >> to conduct his agency and he has the support of alot of people (maybe not > >> on this list). i think its funny you choose to attack me but if thats how > >> you do things then i dont care. i was asked by mani to post the email > >> to begin with so thats that > > > > > > > > You're right, I wasn't there. But if Mike told Mani he was doing the right > > thing than he should just say that (although I don't name drop personal > > contacts to try to justify my actions) > > > >> > >> As for > >>> Mike, I don't think he's above making a wise crack about outside DJs who > >>> get paid more than his American peeps, but it's unfortunate that someone > >>> would twist that into his own tirade. > >> > >> > >> nothing was twisted you were not there when that conversation took place. > >> your the one assuming you know what mike said and if you care about it so > >> much you go ask mike what he thinks of the surgeon or adam and i am sure > >> he would be glad to tell you good or bad > > > > > > it's self important and obnoxious, any way you cut it. > > > >> > >> to attack mani personally is just stupid...because someone tries to change > >> the way they do business and with who they do business with.improving > >> the techno scene in america was not a realization mani came to in his home > >> land, it is just one of the many realizations h
RE: (313) US vs. EU crap....
ok, so if mani had issues with the bahavior of some of his artists then he had every right to let them go. (did he? you make it sound like maybe not, which means he dropped his foreign roster because of what some other people did, i'm confused.) but dissing foreign djs because of this is inappropriate and unprofessional. yes- i will call jerks out for being jerks on this list. But i don't bring it into my professional life (as has been discussed ad nauseum). i would suggest that mani do the same, but whatever, it's his business. i won't be mad if murat or magda get more gigs because of it, although i don't really see how that would happen since i don't think any of the dropped djs were getting a lot of US gigs to begin with, there-by leaving promoters no choice but to book the americans instead. as someone who used to book djs for a living, i can tell you that rational doesn't really work. and dissing other foreign djs because of your own sour grapes (beyer and surgeon) doesn't help your argument. especially considering that both, in my professional experience, were very good to work with. On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Renegade808 wrote: > Yea you are right josh he has droped a good chunk of his european > roster...all but the Advent and Steve Rachmad...but he is no longer > working on spending time w/ artist relationship like > > Rino Cerrone > Mark Antonio > Oxia > Hardfloor > > and a few others but you see there is NO sour grapes anywhere. Mani still > is friends with these people...he has based on the actions of a few > people, had enough.the level of rudeness is just through the roof, and > maybe there are just a few things you DON'T know ok > > so with that being said it seems like a few others on this list can > understand what was saidand yea i understand that some of you don't > agree with how he said it but i guess thats how it isand it is all > better for our scene here in the U.S. .. > > all thats being done is more focus on American Artists less on ungrateful > artists who happen to be from Europe > > > michael > > > > > > > > > if Mani had a roster full of working European DJs and one day woke up and > > said, 'These guys don't need me, I'm going to put my efforts into bringing > > up some American talent' then i would respect that decision. But that > > doesn't seem to be what's he's done at all. He seems to be working > > basically the same roster he had before, only now tryin to throw > > nationalism into the sales pitch. if i'm wrong and he's dropped a > > significant amount of european talent (who were actually getting gigs > > through him), then please correct me. i wonder if there;s maybe not some > > sour grapes between him and some euro borns. > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, Tristan Watkins wrote: > > > >> This is the feeling I got from it. He's acting with the best intent, and > >> isn't explicitly anti-European, but wants to keep things at home in > >> order to > >> do right by the scenes that could use more American influence than > >> they've > >> had in the past. Thing is, it seems weird to single out just a couple of > >> European DJs while ignoring the keen supporters from around the globe > >> that > >> aren't in it for money (but perhaps this just reflects his taste). > >> > >> I can see why European DJs might be seen as exploitative when charging > >> larger fees (or the same for less people) to play in the states, but at > >> the > >> same time I can't really blame them. The crowds are worse, the laws are > >> worse and the venues are (generally) much worse. What is the incentive > >> to > >> play in the states unless they get paid more? It's not like most > >> European > >> DJs do full-scale tours when they go stateside. I do wish him the best > >> in > >> getting more homegrown talent exposure in America, but this whole > >> boycott > >> thing is far too drastic. His personal guilt should not be a public > >> issue. > >> His protectionist analogy was grim, and actually pretty scary to see a > >> US > >> imigrant promoting it. In short: good idea, very bad execution. > >> > >> Tristan > >> === > >> http://www.phonopsia.co.uk > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > >
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
guys, guys, guys stop the madness. We all know who the only common enemy is in the USA. It's the UK crap trance dj's that have bled the USA dry. And why ? Because the sheep in the USA consume that crap. In Boston it's the Euro students that seem richer than any of the natives that have the horrendous taste in that rubbish. Either way, it's rubbish and no amount of exposure to something with a little more substance will convert people with bad taste. None of the artists that either of you have mentioned have even come close in the earnings that a terrible UK trance DJ can rape from USA promoters. Why fight over the crumbs when you should be blowing up the bakery ? Unfortunately, many in the USA must come to the point where we reach a horrible realization. The lunatics are in control of the asylum. The USA is a lost cause and if you can afford it you move to Berlin. And if you can't, you suffer. I don't know if many of you remember the kooky letter I sent to XLR8R years ago where I poked fun @ Oakenfold. Well, after that got published, for at least 2 years kids would still come up to me saying thanks for writing what I did and congratulating me like I was some American folk hero for expressing what I felt. UK people were amazed that a magazine would publish my unkind words knowing that no UK magazine could afford to publish something so harsh and alienate their advertising clients in the manner XLR8R did. A little while after that I was introduced to a girl in a club who worked @ XLR8R. I forget her name, but I was going through some crap Boston club and Christopher Lawrence was playing in it and I was hearing the same kind of crap that I criticized in my letter. Turns out this girl was Australian and Christopher Lawrence's wife. So I mentioned my letter and she came at it from a completely different angle. She felt that UK trance dj's were making all the $ while the USA trance dj's with just as much skill were being deprived of making a living and success in the USA. So I guess my letter to XLR8R went completely over her head as she thanked me and interpreted what I was saying by my letter as backing up her point of view. I'm not sure if any of you are getting my point, so here it is. The only guy worth attacking is the guy with the . As I sit in my tiny, cluttered, sh*tty apt. in Salem, MA while UK trance plonkers live comfortably from the earnings that their bad taste and lack of creativity rewarded them with. I certainly don't resent any of the artists that either of you have mentioned in your messages. So have a good weekend and try a little terrorist activity against your local peddler of bad electronic music and those that consume it. telepathic regards, the kooky scientist on 10/1/04 8:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Renegade808 wrote: > > > brother, i haven't even begun to attack you. > >> once again josh you never seem to disapointyou can have your opinions >> all you want who cares so can everyone else but this is how mani chooses >> to conduct his agency and he has the support of alot of people (maybe not >> on this list). i think its funny you choose to attack me but if thats how >> you do things then i dont care. i was asked by mani to post the email >> to begin with so thats that > > > > You're right, I wasn't there. But if Mike told Mani he was doing the right > thing than he should just say that (although I don't name drop personal > contacts to try to justify my actions) > >> >> As for >>> Mike, I don't think he's above making a wise crack about outside DJs who >>> get paid more than his American peeps, but it's unfortunate that someone >>> would twist that into his own tirade. >> >> >> nothing was twisted you were not there when that conversation took place. >> your the one assuming you know what mike said and if you care about it so >> much you go ask mike what he thinks of the surgeon or adam and i am sure >> he would be glad to tell you good or bad > > > it's self important and obnoxious, any way you cut it. > >> >> to attack mani personally is just stupid...because someone tries to change >> the way they do business and with who they do business with.improving >> the techno scene in america was not a realization mani came to in his home >> land, it is just one of the many realizations he has had >> recentlywhats wrong with that??? > > only you're allowd to start with opinions, dissing people who i consider > vital talent in techno? I didn't say anything bad about Murat, why would > you talk so much trash about Beyer or Surgeon in response? I actually like > Murat a lot as a > person, and see him around somewhat frequently, althouh i'll admit that > somehow i've never heard him DJ even though he played at my former club > several times. > > You started with some blatent;y negative comments and i responded with > saying something positive. don' get it twisted. >
RE: (313) US vs. EU crap....
Yea you are right josh he has droped a good chunk of his european roster...all but the Advent and Steve Rachmad...but he is no longer working on spending time w/ artist relationship like Rino Cerrone Mark Antonio Oxia Hardfloor and a few others but you see there is NO sour grapes anywhere. Mani still is friends with these people...he has based on the actions of a few people, had enough.the level of rudeness is just through the roof, and maybe there are just a few things you DON'T know ok so with that being said it seems like a few others on this list can understand what was saidand yea i understand that some of you don't agree with how he said it but i guess thats how it isand it is all better for our scene here in the U.S. .. all thats being done is more focus on American Artists less on ungrateful artists who happen to be from Europe michael > if Mani had a roster full of working European DJs and one day woke up and > said, 'These guys don't need me, I'm going to put my efforts into bringing > up some American talent' then i would respect that decision. But that > doesn't seem to be what's he's done at all. He seems to be working > basically the same roster he had before, only now tryin to throw > nationalism into the sales pitch. if i'm wrong and he's dropped a > significant amount of european talent (who were actually getting gigs > through him), then please correct me. i wonder if there;s maybe not some > sour grapes between him and some euro borns. > > > > On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, Tristan Watkins wrote: > >> This is the feeling I got from it. He's acting with the best intent, and >> isn't explicitly anti-European, but wants to keep things at home in >> order to >> do right by the scenes that could use more American influence than >> they've >> had in the past. Thing is, it seems weird to single out just a couple of >> European DJs while ignoring the keen supporters from around the globe >> that >> aren't in it for money (but perhaps this just reflects his taste). >> >> I can see why European DJs might be seen as exploitative when charging >> larger fees (or the same for less people) to play in the states, but at >> the >> same time I can't really blame them. The crowds are worse, the laws are >> worse and the venues are (generally) much worse. What is the incentive >> to >> play in the states unless they get paid more? It's not like most >> European >> DJs do full-scale tours when they go stateside. I do wish him the best >> in >> getting more homegrown talent exposure in America, but this whole >> boycott >> thing is far too drastic. His personal guilt should not be a public >> issue. >> His protectionist analogy was grim, and actually pretty scary to see a >> US >> imigrant promoting it. In short: good idea, very bad execution. >> >> Tristan >> === >> http://www.phonopsia.co.uk >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Renegade808 wrote: brother, i haven't even begun to attack you. > once again josh you never seem to disapointyou can have your opinions > all you want who cares so can everyone else but this is how mani chooses > to conduct his agency and he has the support of alot of people (maybe not > on this list). i think its funny you choose to attack me but if thats how > you do things then i dont care. i was asked by mani to post the email > to begin with so thats that You're right, I wasn't there. But if Mike told Mani he was doing the right thing than he should just say that (although I don't name drop personal contacts to try to justify my actions) > > As for > > Mike, I don't think he's above making a wise crack about outside DJs who > > get paid more than his American peeps, but it's unfortunate that someone > > would twist that into his own tirade. > > > nothing was twisted you were not there when that conversation took place. > your the one assuming you know what mike said and if you care about it so > much you go ask mike what he thinks of the surgeon or adam and i am sure > he would be glad to tell you good or bad it's self important and obnoxious, any way you cut it. > > to attack mani personally is just stupid...because someone tries to change > the way they do business and with who they do business with.improving > the techno scene in america was not a realization mani came to in his home > land, it is just one of the many realizations he has had > recentlywhats wrong with that??? only you're allowd to start with opinions, dissing people who i consider vital talent in techno? I didn't say anything bad about Murat, why would you talk so much trash about Beyer or Surgeon in response? I actually like Murat a lot as a person, and see him around somewhat frequently, althouh i'll admit that somehow i've never heard him DJ even though he played at my former club several times. You started with some blatent;y negative comments and i responded with saying something positive. don' get it twisted. > > and as for you comments and opinions about surgeon and adam beyer being > better than anyone on his roster...well thats your opinion and its really > not about who's roster is better than the other.but i think you dont > understand some things... and i dont care who you think you are and > who you think you know... some of us were around in the techno scene long > before you arrived and don't need you to tell us which way is upand > let me get this straight in MY OPINION Murat will crush Adam Beyer, > Surgeon and many other ego maniac's from over the pond in straight up dj > skills and production... ah, here we go. Now I'm some new schooler who works for the hype machine just because everyone now knows how i make my living. i will stand 100% behind any of the artists i feature in urb (the fact that we ALSO cover stuff outside this genre is another topic not on the table). Are you saying that Kompakt, Hawtin, Ellen Alien, Kittin, Vladislav Delay, DJ Rupture, etc, etc are wack? And since my profession is on the table, what do you do for a livin you douchebag? I'll bet it's something real important. >.but i forgot you work for Urb so it is your job > to HYPE up all of these overpaid and rude european artists.(this does > not include all Europeans...i think most people get an idea who i am > talking about) > > > > michael > > > > > >> > >> Basically what mani was expressing in his email to the list is that > >> Obs/Ear management has represented a good amount of techno artists from > >> Europe in past years as well as thrown a bunch of parties in Chicago, > >> and > >> what he is saying is that he has made a mistake in the artist's he > >> chose > >> to represent and that he feel's it his fault that certain american > >> artists > >> can only make like 2-300 bucks in Chicago while Adam Beyer, Surgeon come > >> here to America and get paid 5000 bucks plus a 5 star plus business > >> class > >> airfareit has just become ridiculous, and i think mani is tired of > >> it > >> and taking a stand. > > > > Mike, i don't know what year you live in, but i can guarantee you that > > neither Beyer or Surgeon are making $5000 (maybe at the biggest rave at > > the height of the big raves- but everyone was making money then). Besides- > > Adam can certainly hold his own, if not out DJ, everyone on Mani's roster > > and Surgeon? Forget it! When it comes to skill DJing/production/ > > experimentation, no one on Mani's roster (or few in the world) can touch > > Surgeon. Maybe you're just using those two as arbitrary examples, but > > think before you speak please. > > > > > >> > >> Along with alot of other things mani has gone through this year, from > >> going back to his homeland in which he has not been in 19 years and > >> coming > >> to some realizations. As well as meeting and talking with mad mike this > >> year and sharing opinions on t
RE: (313) US vs. EU crap....
if Mani had a roster full of working European DJs and one day woke up and said, 'These guys don't need me, I'm going to put my efforts into bringing up some American talent' then i would respect that decision. But that doesn't seem to be what's he's done at all. He seems to be working basically the same roster he had before, only now tryin to throw nationalism into the sales pitch. if i'm wrong and he's dropped a significant amount of european talent (who were actually getting gigs through him), then please correct me. i wonder if there;s maybe not some sour grapes between him and some euro borns. On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, Tristan Watkins wrote: > This is the feeling I got from it. He's acting with the best intent, and > isn't explicitly anti-European, but wants to keep things at home in order to > do right by the scenes that could use more American influence than they've > had in the past. Thing is, it seems weird to single out just a couple of > European DJs while ignoring the keen supporters from around the globe that > aren't in it for money (but perhaps this just reflects his taste). > > I can see why European DJs might be seen as exploitative when charging > larger fees (or the same for less people) to play in the states, but at the > same time I can't really blame them. The crowds are worse, the laws are > worse and the venues are (generally) much worse. What is the incentive to > play in the states unless they get paid more? It's not like most European > DJs do full-scale tours when they go stateside. I do wish him the best in > getting more homegrown talent exposure in America, but this whole boycott > thing is far too drastic. His personal guilt should not be a public issue. > His protectionist analogy was grim, and actually pretty scary to see a US > imigrant promoting it. In short: good idea, very bad execution. > > Tristan > === > http://www.phonopsia.co.uk > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
once again josh you never seem to disapointyou can have your opinions all you want who cares so can everyone else but this is how mani chooses to conduct his agency and he has the support of alot of people (maybe not on this list). i think its funny you choose to attack me but if thats how you do things then i dont care. i was asked by mani to post the email to begin with so thats that As for > Mike, I don't think he's above making a wise crack about outside DJs who > get paid more than his American peeps, but it's unfortunate that someone > would twist that into his own tirade. nothing was twisted you were not there when that conversation took place. your the one assuming you know what mike said and if you care about it so much you go ask mike what he thinks of the surgeon or adam and i am sure he would be glad to tell you good or bad to attack mani personally is just stupid...because someone tries to change the way they do business and with who they do business with.improving the techno scene in america was not a realization mani came to in his home land, it is just one of the many realizations he has had recentlywhats wrong with that??? and as for you comments and opinions about surgeon and adam beyer being better than anyone on his roster...well thats your opinion and its really not about who's roster is better than the other.but i think you dont understand some things... and i dont care who you think you are and who you think you know... some of us were around in the techno scene long before you arrived and don't need you to tell us which way is upand let me get this straight in MY OPINION Murat will crush Adam Beyer, Surgeon and many other ego maniac's from over the pond in straight up dj skills and productionbut i forgot you work for Urb so it is your job to HYPE up all of these overpaid and rude european artists.(this does not include all Europeans...i think most people get an idea who i am talking about) michael >> >> Basically what mani was expressing in his email to the list is that >> Obs/Ear management has represented a good amount of techno artists from >> Europe in past years as well as thrown a bunch of parties in Chicago, >> and >> what he is saying is that he has made a mistake in the artist's he >> chose >> to represent and that he feel's it his fault that certain american >> artists >> can only make like 2-300 bucks in Chicago while Adam Beyer, Surgeon come >> here to America and get paid 5000 bucks plus a 5 star plus business >> class >> airfareit has just become ridiculous, and i think mani is tired of >> it >> and taking a stand. > > Mike, i don't know what year you live in, but i can guarantee you that > neither Beyer or Surgeon are making $5000 (maybe at the biggest rave at > the height of the big raves- but everyone was making money then). Besides- > Adam can certainly hold his own, if not out DJ, everyone on Mani's roster > and Surgeon? Forget it! When it comes to skill DJing/production/ > experimentation, no one on Mani's roster (or few in the world) can touch > Surgeon. Maybe you're just using those two as arbitrary examples, but > think before you speak please. > > >> >> Along with alot of other things mani has gone through this year, from >> going back to his homeland in which he has not been in 19 years and >> coming >> to some realizations. As well as meeting and talking with mad mike this >> year and sharing opinions on the global techno scene and i think he was >> very inspired with alot of what mad mike was saying. > > It sounds like the only realization he had was that his own sh*t's not > moving fast enough for his liking, so hes railing against those who have > much in deferrence to those who have not quite as much. If the only thing > you can get from a trip to one of the most humanitarily challenged > countries in the world is that your American techno scene isn't up to par, > then you have to seriously re-evaluate the center of your universe. As for > Mike, I don't think he's above making a wise crack about outside DJs who > get paid more than his American peeps, but it's unfortunate that someone > would twist that into his own tirade. > >> with the exeption of the ones who have >> always supported the American scene which in this case is Cisco from the >> Advent and Steve Rachmad aka Sterac. > \ > > Not diss to Cisco, he has worked America hard for at least as long as i've > been in this music. But Rachmad never even played in America until DEMF > 2002, and with the exception of Mani's events, I don't believe he's played > America much at all. they're just his boys (and his money makers, at least > in the case of Advent) and it is supreme hypocricy. > >> >> it all may seem a little late for dicovering all of this but i'd take >> late >> than never anyday. >> >> >> >> michael >> >> >> >> >> >
RE: (313) US vs. EU crap....
This is the feeling I got from it. He's acting with the best intent, and isn't explicitly anti-European, but wants to keep things at home in order to do right by the scenes that could use more American influence than they've had in the past. Thing is, it seems weird to single out just a couple of European DJs while ignoring the keen supporters from around the globe that aren't in it for money (but perhaps this just reflects his taste). I can see why European DJs might be seen as exploitative when charging larger fees (or the same for less people) to play in the states, but at the same time I can't really blame them. The crowds are worse, the laws are worse and the venues are (generally) much worse. What is the incentive to play in the states unless they get paid more? It's not like most European DJs do full-scale tours when they go stateside. I do wish him the best in getting more homegrown talent exposure in America, but this whole boycott thing is far too drastic. His personal guilt should not be a public issue. His protectionist analogy was grim, and actually pretty scary to see a US imigrant promoting it. In short: good idea, very bad execution. Tristan === http://www.phonopsia.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
Michael, Thank you very much for this post. I think the 313 Europeans on here really misconstrued Mani's post and took it in the worst light possible. I feel you offered a very clear explanation of the situation, and the fact that this isn't a dis to Europeans at all. Our US scenes are definitely struggling to survive here - if we can strengthen our scenes at home, it will be beneficial to Europeans too - especially those who aren't such huge names as it will mean better shows and better opportunities for them in the States. It is the local artists that are the backbone of such efforts and I think the key idea here is just trying to build our strength on the local front. And also the idea that bringing expensive, big name "diva" DJs over may not be the best way to promote techno in the US and help our scene flourish. ~David Renegade808 wrote: first off i am not here to defend anyone or answer for dj mani. but i am posting this as maybe a little insight to why mani posted this email on 313 and many other lists for that matter. As in classic 313 fashion everyone took this as a personal attack on European's, especially alex. not really sure why cause it really does'nt apply to alex or alot of people in Europe who support american artists, But i feel people have said some fairly nasty things in direct response to what mani has said without even trying to understand what it was he said. Basically what mani was expressing in his email to the list is that Obs/Ear management has represented a good amount of techno artists from Europe in past years as well as thrown a bunch of parties in Chicago, and what he is saying is that he has made a mistake in the artist's he chose to represent and that he feel's it his fault that certain american artists can only make like 2-300 bucks in Chicago while Adam Beyer, Surgeon come here to America and get paid 5000 bucks plus a 5 star plus business class airfareit has just become ridiculous, and i think mani is tired of it and taking a stand. Along with alot of other things mani has gone through this year, from going back to his homeland in which he has not been in 19 years and coming to some realizations. As well as meeting and talking with mad mike this year and sharing opinions on the global techno scene and i think he was very inspired with alot of what mad mike was saying. it would seem that alot of these artists in this sect of techno could really care less about the american techno scene and all they do is make it VERY difficult to get here and play and do nothing but take from the scene and small amount of resources here in america and dont give back. take it as you will but to me this is not an attack on anyone on this list as most people on this list have supported american artists as well as the american techno scene obviously lastly this is not a direct attack on all people in Europe and for those of you who took it that way i am suprised as it is obvious to me that those European's on this list in particular, have been the ones who have supported American artists and the American techno scene. yea maybe it was not worded the way everyone on this list deems correct but it was his words and his expression. so take mani's mail as an omission of guilt in contributing to this problem that plague's the American techno sceneand that he is no longer going to contribute to the problem but instead try to remedy it in the best way he feels for his booking agency which includes supporting more American artists in America and making the neccessary cuts off his roster, with the exeption of the ones who have always supported the American scene which in this case is Cisco from the Advent and Steve Rachmad aka Sterac. it all may seem a little late for dicovering all of this but i'd take late than never anyday. michael
Re: (313) US vs. EU crap....
> > Basically what mani was expressing in his email to the list is that > Obs/Ear management has represented a good amount of techno artists from > Europe in past years as well as thrown a bunch of parties in Chicago, and > what he is saying is that he has made a mistake in the artist's he chose > to represent and that he feel's it his fault that certain american artists > can only make like 2-300 bucks in Chicago while Adam Beyer, Surgeon come > here to America and get paid 5000 bucks plus a 5 star plus business class > airfareit has just become ridiculous, and i think mani is tired of it > and taking a stand. Mike, i don't know what year you live in, but i can guarantee you that neither Beyer or Surgeon are making $5000 (maybe at the biggest rave at the height of the big raves- but everyone was making money then). Besides- Adam can certainly hold his own, if not out DJ, everyone on Mani's roster and Surgeon? Forget it! When it comes to skill DJing/production/ experimentation, no one on Mani's roster (or few in the world) can touch Surgeon. Maybe you're just using those two as arbitrary examples, but think before you speak please. > > Along with alot of other things mani has gone through this year, from > going back to his homeland in which he has not been in 19 years and coming > to some realizations. As well as meeting and talking with mad mike this > year and sharing opinions on the global techno scene and i think he was > very inspired with alot of what mad mike was saying. It sounds like the only realization he had was that his own sh*t's not moving fast enough for his liking, so hes railing against those who have much in deferrence to those who have not quite as much. If the only thing you can get from a trip to one of the most humanitarily challenged countries in the world is that your American techno scene isn't up to par, then you have to seriously re-evaluate the center of your universe. As for Mike, I don't think he's above making a wise crack about outside DJs who get paid more than his American peeps, but it's unfortunate that someone would twist that into his own tirade. > with the exeption of the ones who have > always supported the American scene which in this case is Cisco from the > Advent and Steve Rachmad aka Sterac. \ Not diss to Cisco, he has worked America hard for at least as long as i've been in this music. But Rachmad never even played in America until DEMF 2002, and with the exception of Mani's events, I don't believe he's played America much at all. they're just his boys (and his money makers, at least in the case of Advent) and it is supreme hypocricy. > > it all may seem a little late for dicovering all of this but i'd take late > than never anyday. > > > > michael > > > > >
