Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Thanks, Jeff. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Oct 27, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Ours are normal, non-built servers. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Ours are normal, non-built servers. -- Jeffrey Kain jeffrey.k...@gmail.com > On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > For those that have experiences this issue, has anyone experienced it on a > server that wasn’t a “built” server? All mine are built servers. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
For those that have experiences this issue, has anyone experienced it on a server that wasn’t a “built” server? All mine are built servers. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
We had another server do this this morning. It had stopped on DELAY PROCESS again, so I tried the RESUME PROCESS idea. It did get the process going again. However, some of the Administration Window UI was not updating properly. After the process resumed, the UI still didn’t update properly so we ended up relaunching the server anyway. I’m more convinced that DELAY PROCESS is where things are getting stuck. BTW, the computer had been up for 14 days when it happened, so probably not an integer overflow bug. I still don’t have anything reproducible, but I have enough information to open a support case, so I’ll do that this morning. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Oct 18, 2017, at 6:33 PM, Timothy Penner wrote: > > Not sure if this will help you at all, but if you can locate the process > number for the process (let's assume it is process #10) and then issue RESUME > PROCESS(10) does it actually wake up or does it stay delayed? ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Yes. On Oct 27, 2017, at 3:23 AM, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: >> I am confident that 4D will find this bug and get it fixed. If it takes 6 >> months, then my >> upgrade plans will be on hold for 6 months. I’m in no hurry to upgrade right >> now. > > Is there a case (TAOW or anywhere) in progress? > I'm afraid that this discussion on the list doesn't lead to a solution of the > problem, since 4D ignores it for its works. > > I ask because we want to upgrade to v16 this year, so there are two months ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
> I am confident that 4D will find this bug and get it fixed. If it takes 6 > months, then my > upgrade plans will be on hold for 6 months. I’m in no hurry to upgrade right > now. Is there a case (TAOW or anywhere) in progress? I'm afraid that this discussion on the list doesn't lead to a solution of the problem, since 4D ignores it for its works. I ask because we want to upgrade to v16 this year, so there are two months only ... Regards Lutz -- Lutz Epperlein -- Agendo Gesellschaft für politische Planung mbH Köpenicker Str. 9 10997 Berlin http://www.agendo.de/ -- ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:48 PM, David Conley wrote: > FWIW, I’ve implemented a method which issues a resume process command for > each of my stored procedures. I invoke it via a new process command using > the On Backup Shutdown command. My backups run once per day so it gives me a > clean way of resuming those procedures each day after the backup completes. > If they aren’t stuck then no big deal. If they are then they get resumed. > Once completed the process dies. It was the best solution I could come up > with for a work around until the problem is fixed. HI Dave, Great idea. But my Stored Procedure usage is more involved than just running things once a day. I have some that run every hour. Some that run at certain set times each day. So just whacking the server with a hammer once a day to jar things loose so they run is not be the best solution for me. I have users that expect at certain times for certain things to happen. Automatically everyday. If it is an hour late… my phone rings. There is nothing super critical in v16 that my clients must have now that requires I do whatever is needed to upgrade and deal with this issue. Plus like I said before, things are running great now, have been for years, and I’m not interested in babysitting my client servers. I’ve got better things to do. I know some people are running v16 and having no problems. Some it takes weeks or months before it happens. It’s like Russian roulette... maybe you shoot yourself, maybe you don’t. I’m so glad I didn’t jump quickly and upgrade to v16. I almost did. You know the old adage: better to be safe than to be sorry. Man… does that apply here. I am confident that 4D will find this bug and get it fixed. If it takes 6 months, then my upgrade plans will be on hold for 6 months. I’m in no hurry to upgrade right now. Tim Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
That's pretty clever. On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:35 AM, BTB-David via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com > wrote: > Tim, > > FWIW, I’ve implemented a method which issues a resume process command for > each of my stored procedures. I invoke it via a new process command using > the On Backup Shutdown command. My backups run once per day so it gives me > a clean way of resuming those procedures each day after the backup > completes. If they aren’t stuck then no big deal. If they are then they > get resumed. Once completed the process dies. It was the best solution I > could come up with for a work around until the problem is fixed. > > > Thanks! > > David Conley > By The Book, Inc. > Office: 815-234-7530 > Direct Line: 815-406-5502 > Fax: 815-234-7532 > http://www.bythebook.com > > > > On Oct 25, 2017, at 4:13 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech < > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > > > > > I’m a big user of Stored Procedure and I don’t need the headache of them > acting up when everything is completely stable now. And it’s a bug I can’t > even implement a work around for, other than to manually monitor all server > every single day and executing RESUME PROCESS commands manually when I > detect an issue. I’ve got work to do. I’m not going to become a server > babysitter. > > > > > > > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Tim, FWIW, I’ve implemented a method which issues a resume process command for each of my stored procedures. I invoke it via a new process command using the On Backup Shutdown command. My backups run once per day so it gives me a clean way of resuming those procedures each day after the backup completes. If they aren’t stuck then no big deal. If they are then they get resumed. Once completed the process dies. It was the best solution I could come up with for a work around until the problem is fixed. Thanks! David Conley By The Book, Inc. Office: 815-234-7530 Direct Line: 815-406-5502 Fax: 815-234-7532 http://www.bythebook.com > On Oct 25, 2017, at 4:13 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > > I’m a big user of Stored Procedure and I don’t need the headache of them > acting up when everything is completely stable now. And it’s a bug I can’t > even implement a work around for, other than to manually monitor all server > every single day and executing RESUME PROCESS commands manually when I detect > an issue. I’ve got work to do. I’m not going to become a server babysitter. > This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com) unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.com/track/unsub.php?u=30055319&id=4e524469ed2e48cc8bc6c3810ba1273b.6uKpduIsjJ%2FEqVQ1r%2BdLr66Tu1w%3D&r=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Funsub%3Fmd_email%3D4d_tech%2540lists.4d.com) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech < 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: Thanks for chiming in. Given the number and nature of the people reporting this bug, it's clearly a real bug. Can you give us some insight into what efforts 4D is making internally to track this down and fix it? The way I interpret your remarks is "We're waiting for customers to figure out what the problem is." Is that a mis-characterization or even a totally off-base reading of your message? Is there an *active* effort within to track down this particular problem? Thanks. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Oct 25, 2017, at 3:45 PM, Timothy Penner wrote: > I just want to add that one of the main benefits of the Forums > (http://forums.4d.com) is that it is also used by the 4D Engineers and they > do monitor, read, and participate in the discussions. So posting on the > forums could give you the opportunity to discuss this directly with the > Engineers. This participation is one of the main reasons why Feature Requests > are handled on the forums (as described here: http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76725). Hi Tim, I know it, I know it. But me and so many other 4D Developers are old dogs. And you what they say, “hard to teach an old dog new tricks”. Particularly when the bones 4D Forums offer taste so terrible. In other words. It’s just to darn easy to deal with the iNUG email setup, and it is a big pain-in-the-ass to deal with how the 4D Forums work. Takes nine million clicks to view everything and to find anything. Here you just glance at emails and you get all the info you want. You want people to use the 4D Forums, make it taste so good we won’t want to use old fashion emails any longer. Here’s a radical idea, create an email interface/adapter for the 4D Forums so you don’t have to use that horrid web interface. You just send specially formatted emails and it inserts them into the 4D Forums. And when someone replies on the 4D Forums it send out an email. Then there would be no excuse to not participate in the 4D Forums. Too bad nobody in France is smart enough or motivated enough to do something like that. :) >> Somebody needs to forward this email chain to 4D engineering. Hopefully Tim >> Penner can do this and get 4D engineering motivated to stop waiting for a >> demo database that reproduces this problem and have somebody go do a code >> review looking for something that doesn’t look quite right. > > I wish it were that simple. I see some theories about what's causing it but I > don’t think anyone has nailed down a concrete explanation or reproducible > test that could be used in a bug report. Sorry, but I cannot file a bug > report for something this vague. Although, to be clear, I have tried running > some tests to see if I can provoke the issue and I never saw it (so > technically if a bug was filed with the information we currently have it > could be marked as 'verified and non-reproducible' by tech support). I totally understand that. I just want to help in any way I can to get this resolved. Right now I have no v16 users. I was planning to do an upgrade but this put a stop to that. No way. I’m steering clear of upgrading to v16 until I hear that this problem has been fixed. And that’s what I tell anyone that asks me about upgrading to v16. If you don’t use Stored Procedure, go ahead, but if you do you are asking for trouble. If it is affecting Jeff and Cannon, it could effect anyone. This is not a 4D developer coding error, this is a 4D bug! I’m a big user of Stored Procedure and I don’t need the headache of them acting up when everything is completely stable now. And it’s a bug I can’t even implement a work around for, other than to manually monitor all server every single day and executing RESUME PROCESS commands manually when I detect an issue. I’ve got work to do. I’m not going to become a server babysitter. And the last thing I want is calls from clients saying “that 4D upgrade you installed is sure causing problems, why don’t you fix it”. And my only reply is, “I can’t, live with it”. I’m sure you understand that. Tim Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi Tim, > This is how a programming forum is supposed to work. People contributing > ideas and sharing experiences. I think we are getting close to nailing down > where 4D engineers need to look to solve this problem. > I just want to add that one of the main benefits of the Forums (http://forums.4d.com) is that it is also used by the 4D Engineers and they do monitor, read, and participate in the discussions. So posting on the forums could give you the opportunity to discuss this directly with the Engineers. This participation is one of the main reasons why Feature Requests are handled on the forums (as described here: http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76725). > Somebody needs to forward this email chain to 4D engineering. Hopefully Tim > Penner can do this and get 4D engineering motivated to stop waiting for a > demo database that reproduces this problem and have somebody go do a code > review looking for something that doesn’t look quite right. > I wish it were that simple. I see some theories about what's causing it but I don’t think anyone has nailed down a concrete explanation or reproducible test that could be used in a bug report. Sorry, but I cannot file a bug report for something this vague. Although, to be clear, I have tried running some tests to see if I can provoke the issue and I never saw it (so technically if a bug was filed with the information we currently have it could be marked as 'verified and non-reproducible' by tech support). It is great to see confirmation that using the Runtime Explorer allows the DB Admin to issue the command RESUME PROCESS; this gives me hope that we are on the right track and for the time being we have a way of kicking the process back into gear. I will continue monitoring this thread for additional clues but at this time I still don't have enough information to reproduce the issue and ultimately file a bug report. For anyone following along and actively looking for this problem, hopefully you are also using the Information Component to log reports on a regular basis (default 5 minute interval) so that if the issue does arise you have a set of reports that depict the period of uptime for the database. There may be a clue in these reports (for example, an item in the attention section warning you of an issue). At the very least the reports would include the amount of uptime for the computer, which could be used to help understand at which point of uptime this problem is happening (assuming it is related to uptime). -Tim ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > >> Anyway, I'm wondering if the problem is when either Tickcount, Milliseconds >> or another internal 4D time measure overflows into negative territory. I >> have no idea internally what measure 4D uses for DELAY PROCESS, nor what >> data type they use internally for it, but what if they aren't taking account >> of the overflow when the measure value goes from a large positive number to >> a large negative. >> >> That could explain the large time period before the problem reoccurs?? I am not sure that this is in any way related, but a after upgrading a client to v15 I started having an occasional problem with a stored procedure. I cannot remember now exactly what the problem was but I solved it by letting the process die after starting a new process with the same method and delaying the new process as soon as it starts… Process A does it thing starts Process B and dies Process B is delayed. After delay Process B does it’s thing starts Process A and dies. Repeat… This has worked without any problem since. John John Baughman Kailua, Hawaii (808) 262-0328 john...@hawaii.rr.com ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Oct 25, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Keith White wrote: > Wondered if you saw my guess/conjecture previously posted on this subject > (not that it's much help !)...:- > > OK, so we think this is due to DELAY PROCESS. > > The change to DELAY PROCESS somewhere in 4D v15 was to change from a Longint > to Real. But the problems didn't start until v16, I think that's right. > > Anyway, I'm wondering if the problem is when either Tickcount, Milliseconds > or another internal 4D time measure overflows into negative territory. I > have no idea internally what measure 4D uses for DELAY PROCESS, nor what data > type they use internally for it, but what if they aren't taking account of > the overflow when the measure value goes from a large positive number to a > large negative. > > That could explain the large time period before the problem reoccurs?? > > Just throwing an idea out there. We've only just jumped from v13 to v16R4, > which means we don't have v16 out in production land yet, so we haven't yet > seen this problem occur. I think you are on to something Keith. I had the exact same thoughts about this problem. A change from tick count to millisecond and the change from C_LONGINT values in DELAY PROCESS to C_REAL. Probably also related to internal scheduling system changes connected to support preemptive processes now. They had to do some major low level programming changes to make all of this work. This is how a programming forum is supposed to work. People contributing ideas and sharing experiences. I think we are getting close to nailing down where 4D engineers need to look to solve this problem. Somebody needs to forward this email chain to 4D engineering. Hopefully Tim Penner can do this and get 4D engineering motivated to stop waiting for a demo database that reproduces this problem and have somebody go do a code review looking for something that doesn’t look quite right. Tim Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I went to another machine and found out some more info. This appears to be a random problem which makes it difficult to reproduce and track down. Here is what I can summarize on the problem: 1) There isn’t a direct correlation to the Server UI window becoming unresponsive vs the delay process issue. In some cases it correlates but in others it does not 2) Not sure there is a correlation to machine up time. I’ve seen the problem occur on a machine that was up 158 days; not occur on a machine that was up 86 days and did occur on a machine that was up 59 days 3) Not sure there is a correlation to database up time. Different up times on different database - same results 4) I can confirm that I only see it between 4Dv15R5 and 4Dv16.0 5) My processes that just stop responding on all of the databases on all of the machines stopped responding on 10/15/17. The databases have different up times when this occurs. and for one more bit of randomness: I have 2 server processes that do house keeping chores. These are the processes I delay. In all of the databases I’ve looked at so far, both processes stop on the same day. in fact, all of the databases running on the machine stop on the same day - all except for 1 database. In this database one of the processes stopped on 10/15/17 but the other one is still running. Talk about random. Riddle me that batman. crap Thanks! David Conley By The Book, Inc. Office: 815-234-7530 Direct Line: 815-406-5502 Fax: 815-234-7532 http://www.bythebook.com > On Oct 25, 2017, at 10:24 AM, BTB-David via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Interesting. I did some more digging and here is what I’ve found. > > I have 13 Macs that run up to 10 databases on each machine of differing 4D > versions (usually 4Dv13.4, 4Dv15R5 and 4Dv16.0) - all are 32 bit. I focused > on 2. > > Machine 1 - uptime 158 days > > I have 10 databases running on this machine. 3 are running using 4D v13.4, 2 > are running v15R5 and the other 5 are running v16.0. > > The ones running v13.4 are not having this issue. All of the other ones are. > > Machine 2 - uptime 86 days > > I have 9 databases running on this machine. 3 are running 4Dv13.4 and 6 are > running 4Dv16.0. > > None of the 4Dv13.4 databases have the problem. None of the 4Dv16.0 > databases on this machine have experienced this problem. > > > Jeff: I can confirm that the 4D Server UI monitor for graphs does stop > updating when this occurs. On Machine 1, the only one that is working now is > the one I manually resumed the processes for. On machine 2, all of the > graphs are working just fine. > This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com) unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.com/track/unsub.php?u=30055319&id=8243fbea94074a0abf7670925c43bc20.6uKpduIsjJ%2FEqVQ1r%2BdLr66Tu1w%3D&r=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Funsub%3Fmd_email%3D4d_tech%2540lists.4d.com) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I did not know you could do that on a live server running a compiled database. > > > > On Oct 18, 2017, at 7:33 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech < > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > > You can issue commands from the Runtime Explorer by adding a new > expression and typing the command into the expression. For example, typing > RESUME PROCESS(10) into the Runtime Explorer will resume the process with > id 10. > > > > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Interesting. I did some more digging and here is what I’ve found. I have 13 Macs that run up to 10 databases on each machine of differing 4D versions (usually 4Dv13.4, 4Dv15R5 and 4Dv16.0) - all are 32 bit. I focused on 2. Machine 1 - uptime 158 days I have 10 databases running on this machine. 3 are running using 4D v13.4, 2 are running v15R5 and the other 5 are running v16.0. The ones running v13.4 are not having this issue. All of the other ones are. Machine 2 - uptime 86 days I have 9 databases running on this machine. 3 are running 4Dv13.4 and 6 are running 4Dv16.0. None of the 4Dv13.4 databases have the problem. None of the 4Dv16.0 databases on this machine have experienced this problem. Jeff: I can confirm that the 4D Server UI monitor for graphs does stop updating when this occurs. On Machine 1, the only one that is working now is the one I manually resumed the processes for. On machine 2, all of the graphs are working just fine. The code dealing with these server processes has been running just fine for many, many years. Thanks! David Conley By The Book, Inc. Office: 815-234-7530 Direct Line: 815-406-5502 Fax: 815-234-7532 http://www.bythebook.com > On Oct 25, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Hi Keith, > > Yes, that’s why I was curious about the machine up time. It would be curious > if it was close to 24.86 days, for example. > This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com) unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.com/track/unsub.php?u=30055319&id=9677e92f5f6e4a8c99f800ea10e5b871.6uKpduIsjJ%2FEqVQ1r%2BdLr66Tu1w%3D&r=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Funsub%3Fmd_email%3D4d_tech%2540lists.4d.com) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Did you also see the 4D Server UI stop updating? I'm referring to the server monitor user interface that graphs the CPU time, etc. When this has happened to our mirror servers, those graphs stop updating. The server can still be manipulated, but those graphs don't update and the stored procedure has stopped. -- Jeffrey Kain jeffrey.k...@gmail.com > On Oct 25, 2017, at 10:34 AM, Keith White via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > OK, so we think this is due to DELAY PROCESS. > > The change to DELAY PROCESS somewhere in 4D v15 was to change from a Longint > to Real. But the problems didn't start until v16, I think that's right. > > Anyway, I'm wondering if the problem is when either Tickcount, Milliseconds > or another internal 4D time measure overflows into negative territory. I > have no idea internally what measure 4D uses for DELAY PROCESS, nor what data > type they use internally for it, but what if they aren't taking account of > the overflow when the measure value goes from a large positive number to a > large negative. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi Keith, Yes, that’s why I was curious about the machine up time. It would be curious if it was close to 24.86 days, for example. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Oct 25, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Keith White via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Wondered if you saw my guess/conjecture previously posted on this subject > (not that it's much help !)...:- ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi David and Canon Wondered if you saw my guess/conjecture previously posted on this subject (not that it's much help !)...:- OK, so we think this is due to DELAY PROCESS. The change to DELAY PROCESS somewhere in 4D v15 was to change from a Longint to Real. But the problems didn't start until v16, I think that's right. Anyway, I'm wondering if the problem is when either Tickcount, Milliseconds or another internal 4D time measure overflows into negative territory. I have no idea internally what measure 4D uses for DELAY PROCESS, nor what data type they use internally for it, but what if they aren't taking account of the overflow when the measure value goes from a large positive number to a large negative. That could explain the large time period before the problem reoccurs?? Just throwing an idea out there. We've only just jumped from v13 to v16R4, which means we don't have v16 out in production land yet, so we haven't yet seen this problem occur. Best regards Keith White Synergist Express Ltd, UK. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi David, Good to have more information—thanks! I’m curious, do you know what the machine up time was when it stalled? Thanks. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:57 AM, BTB-David via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > I can confirm that this is caused by the delay process. In fact, all of my > server processes that use delay process stopped on the same day. They had > different levels of delay times set. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I can confirm that this is caused by the delay process. In fact, all of my server processes that use delay process stopped on the same day. They had different levels of delay times set. As per your suggestion, I went into Runtime Explorer on the Server and typed resume process (pid) and they worked again. I will check tomorrow to see if the processes run more than one day after manually using resume. I am running 16.0 Build 16.209177. Server is running on Mac. I will create a test database and see if I can re-create and will open a support case for this issue. Thanks! David Conley By The Book, Inc. Office: 815-234-7530 Direct Line: 815-406-5502 Fax: 815-234-7532 http://www.bythebook.com > On Oct 18, 2017, at 7:33 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > Hi Cannon, > > If I am reading this correctly, you have a process that was delayed using > DELAY PROCESS and it should have already woken up after 1 second but it was > still delayed several hours later - is that right? > > Not sure if this will help you at all, but if you can locate the process > number for the process (let's assume it is process #10) and then issue RESUME > PROCESS(10) does it actually wake up or does it stay delayed? > > You can obtain the process number from the Admin Window or the Runtime > Explorer. > > You can issue commands from the Runtime Explorer by adding a new expression > and typing the command into the expression. For example, typing RESUME > PROCESS(10) into the Runtime Explorer will resume the process with id 10. > > To be clear - I don’t think this will help find the root cause of the > problem, but I do think it could help in understanding what state the process > is actually in. > > If this issue is simply DELAY PROCESS not waking up, I wonder if someone > could build a quick and simple database that demonstrates and tests that? > Maybe having a process that delays itself and updates a variable with the > current time, and another process checking the variable to confirm a certain > amount of time has elapsed. Then if the elapse time between updates falls > outside of the expected range then the bug has been hit? Has anyone tried > that to confirm this? > This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com) unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.com/track/unsub.php?u=30055319&id=8c2a09f8dc174d07aebcb70e893613ce.6uKpduIsjJ%2FEqVQ1r%2BdLr66Tu1w%3D&r=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Funsub%3Fmd_email%3D4d_tech%2540lists.4d.com) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi OK, so we think this is due to DELAY PROCESS. The change to DELAY PROCESS somewhere in 4D v15 was to change from a Longint to Real. But the problems didn't start until v16, I think that's right. Anyway, I'm wondering if the problem is when either Tickcount, Milliseconds or another internal 4D time measure overflows into negative territory. I have no idea internally what measure 4D uses for DELAY PROCESS, nor what data type they use internally for it, but what if they aren't taking account of the overflow when the measure value goes from a large positive number to a large negative. That could explain the large time period before the problem reoccurs?? Just throwing an idea out there. We've only just jumped from v13 to v16R4, which means we don't have v16 out in production land yet, so we haven't yet seen this problem occur. Best regards Keith White Synergist Express Ltd, UK. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Thanks Jeff and Bernd. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Oct 19, 2017, at 12:24 AM, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > Almost exactly the same setup over here. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hey Cannon - we had this happen twice last week... once each on our two mirror servers a few days apart. The journal integration stored procedure wakes up every 60 seconds and integrates whatever files have accumulated. This just stopped. Also the 4D Server animated user interface for CPU use had also stopped, but I could still navigate the server UI. I collected the dmp file as well as the endpoints file that tech support asked for, but apparently there was no usable data there. So... we wait for the next failure to happen. Jeff ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi Cannon, If I am reading this correctly, you have a process that was delayed using DELAY PROCESS and it should have already woken up after 1 second but it was still delayed several hours later - is that right? Not sure if this will help you at all, but if you can locate the process number for the process (let's assume it is process #10) and then issue RESUME PROCESS(10) does it actually wake up or does it stay delayed? You can obtain the process number from the Admin Window or the Runtime Explorer. You can issue commands from the Runtime Explorer by adding a new expression and typing the command into the expression. For example, typing RESUME PROCESS(10) into the Runtime Explorer will resume the process with id 10. To be clear - I don’t think this will help find the root cause of the problem, but I do think it could help in understanding what state the process is actually in. If this issue is simply DELAY PROCESS not waking up, I wonder if someone could build a quick and simple database that demonstrates and tests that? Maybe having a process that delays itself and updates a variable with the current time, and another process checking the variable to confirm a certain amount of time has elapsed. Then if the elapse time between updates falls outside of the expected range then the bug has been hit? Has anyone tried that to confirm this? -Tim ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I _could_ try that. But my turn around time to send a new build to customers is measured in months. And if I only try this with one customer’s server, it may not happen for weeks. How would I know if it solved it? The trouble with this particular bug is that it has been very hard to reproduce. This is the first time I even have an idea of what line of code may be causing it. And it is only the first time I’ve been able to log it. I’ll have to log it a few more times to see if it is always DELAY PROCESS. Also, I’d rather have the bug figured out and fixed, not worked around. This method (and similar ones where I’ve seen this issue) have been running solid with basically no code changes for over a decade now. Tweaking it like that as a workaround, even if it worked, would keep me nervous for the next decade! -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Oct 18, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > So you are running this process every 1 second? Here’s a crazy idea: > > What if there is some strange timing issue that screws up the 1 second > interval. Something takes a bit to long on the server and the cooperative > multiprocessing system get hung up for just a bit longer than normal. So it > misses the next 1 second interval. > > Could you change the interval to 5 seconds? Give it some “breathing room” to > make sure it goes deeply asleep before it is awakened again. > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Oct 18, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Cannon Smith wrote: > Just an update on this issue. Last week I was able to release a new version > of our software to all of our customers and I included some extra logging for > this issue. Yesterday we had a customer report the problem. Here’s what I > found. > > First, a bit about the process that I’ve seen freeze the most often. It is > simply a background process that runs on the server. It checks to see if some > work needs to be done and then delays itself for 60 ticks. Then it checks > again. When work does need to be done it is spun off in another process, so > this process doesn’t do a lot. It hasn’t changed much since implemented in 4D > 2004. > > Based on the logging, I can see that the last line of code run was: > > DELAY PROCESS(Current process;60*1) > > That line of code ran at 8:15:37 AM yesterday. We found out about the problem > at 1:01 PM, so it had been hung for several hours. > > Now that I have some logging I’m hoping to see a few more instance to see > whether they all point to the same thing. In the mean time, does this line up > with what anyone else is seeing? So you are running this process every 1 second? Here’s a crazy idea: What if there is some strange timing issue that screws up the 1 second interval. Something takes a bit to long on the server and the cooperative multiprocessing system get hung up for just a bit longer than normal. So it misses the next 1 second interval. Could you change the interval to 5 seconds? Give it some “breathing room” to make sure it goes deeply asleep before it is awakened again. Tim Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Cannon, Thanks for being so systematic about tracking down this problem and keeping the list informed. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Just an update on this issue. Last week I was able to release a new version of our software to all of our customers and I included some extra logging for this issue. Yesterday we had a customer report the problem. Here’s what I found. First, a bit about the process that I’ve seen freeze the most often. It is simply a background process that runs on the server. It checks to see if some work needs to be done and then delays itself for 60 ticks. Then it checks again. When work does need to be done it is spun off in another process, so this process doesn’t do a lot. It hasn’t changed much since implemented in 4D 2004. Based on the logging, I can see that the last line of code run was: DELAY PROCESS(Current process;60*1) That line of code ran at 8:15:37 AM yesterday. We found out about the problem at 1:01 PM, so it had been hung for several hours. Now that I have some logging I’m hoping to see a few more instance to see whether they all point to the same thing. In the mean time, does this line up with what anyone else is seeing? -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Sep 13, 2017, at 7:58 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Just saw this happen to our production server tonight. We have a stored > procedure that simply calls New Log File every few minutes. About an hour > ago it just stopped working. The process is still there in the process list, > and nothing else seems wrong with the server, but this very simple stored > procedure just stopped working. > > I've never seen this happen in 4D before. > > 4D v16.2, Windows Server 2012, 64-bit > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Dani, We’ve had the same problem. After switching from v15 to v16 (both 64bit) the server crashed regularly upon creation of PDF documents with PDF Creator. We planned to move the batch generation of those pdf docs to a separate client, but forgot to change some settings causing some types of docs still being generated on the server. This is a W10 server. On another site running the same app, but using W2008 no issues reported so far (running for some weeks). Did not investigate further because the client is running fine and we plan to move away from PDF Creator. Kind regards, Koen > Op 11 sep. 2017, om 15:32 heeft Dani Beaubien via 4D_Tech > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> het volgende geschreven: > > We have run into issues where the server is running on windows 64bit and it > is producing PDFs using PDF Creator directly. Our solution was to move away > from doing that and using php and FPDF to create the PDFs instead. Compass bvba Koen Van Hooreweghe Kloosterstraat 65 9910 Knesselare Belgium tel +32 495 511.653 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
This one in particular may take awhile. It took about 16 days for us to see the issue for the first time. Who knows when it will happen again? So more people watching for this issue should shorten the amount of time needed to get this identified. -- Jeffrey Kain jeffrey.k...@gmail.com > On Sep 15, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Bugs in 4D don’t fix themselves by simply talking about them here. If you are > expecting 4D staff to read a post on the iNUG and then run into the next room > and say “we have a bug in 4D we need to look at”, I think you are expecting > too much. Opening a tech support case for the bug is the first step in > getting it worked on and fixed. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Sep 15, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Jeffrey Kain wrote: > I opened a case on the taow today - just FYI. I forgot to say that in my last post. I think this is the best way to handle this bug. If they have a half dozen cases opened all with the same problem, that should make them take notice. So anybody else seeing this frozen Stored Procedure problem in v16, do what Jeff did and go open a support case for it. Bugs in 4D don’t fix themselves by simply talking about them here. If you are expecting 4D staff to read a post on the iNUG and then run into the next room and say “we have a bug in 4D we need to look at”, I think you are expecting too much. Opening a tech support case for the bug is the first step in getting it worked on and fixed. Tim Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
> On Sep 14, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > This is a big problem that must get addressed and fixed or it will do harm to > v16’s reputation. I was planning on upgrading one of my clients to v16 in a > few months. That is not going to happen now. I can’t afford to have my Stored > Procedure randomly stop running. So v16 upgrades for me are never going to > happen until I hear this bug has been fixed. This could spread to others and > give v16 a very bad name. Nobody wants that. Especially 4D Inc. Agree. I'm also waiting to be convinced that 4D Client performance with the new network layer on on par with version 15. It seems the majority of comments have been negative. It would be great to hear some success stories for 64bit 4D Client, especially Mac. John DeSoi, Ph.D. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I opened a case on the taow today - just FYI. > On Sep 14, 2017, at 8:05 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Then I’d call and speak to Add and get him involved in this. He knows you. > And you can tell him that others — like Jeff Kain — are experiencing the same > problem. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Sep 14, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Cannon Smith wrote: > Hmm, v16.2 eh? There goes our hope that it was fixed in that version. > > Is anyone having this happen regularly enough that they can turn on some > logging to see, for example, what the last command that ran was? Hi Cannon, I’d called 4D tech support and open a case on this problem. Ask them to do a search in the bug database for similar issues. I did this 6-8 months ago with an index corruption issue I was having in v14 and they found another reported bug that had the same pattern as mine. And it was fixed in v15. Then I’d call and speak to Add and get him involved in this. He knows you. And you can tell him that others — like Jeff Kain — are experiencing the same problem. Once you get past basic 4D tech support and get your case “escalated” many more options become available to you. You can get the “debug” version of 4D Server and run that. It can help track down bugs like this that are impossible to track down with standard 4D Server version even with logging turned on. Finally, you can get the attention of 4D engineering and they can add some special code to the daily build or debug version to help figure out what is going wrong. It could be a current v16 daily build version has already fixed the problem. You don’t normally run daily build version in production environments, but you can if it fixes a critical problem that you need immediately fixed. This is a big problem that must get addressed and fixed or it will do harm to v16’s reputation. I was planning on upgrading one of my clients to v16 in a few months. That is not going to happen now. I can’t afford to have my Stored Procedure randomly stop running. So v16 upgrades for me are never going to happen until I hear this bug has been fixed. This could spread to others and give v16 a very bad name. Nobody wants that. Especially 4D Inc. Tim Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hmm, v16.2 eh? There goes our hope that it was fixed in that version. Is anyone having this happen regularly enough that they can turn on some logging to see, for example, what the last command that ran was? -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Sep 13, 2017, at 7:58 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > I've never seen this happen in 4D before. > > 4D v16.2, Windows Server 2012, 64-bit > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
> Le 14 sept. 2017 à 03:58, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a > écrit : > > Houston, er, Clichy -- we have a problem here. Call Le Pecq, they left Clichy from a while ;-) -- Arnaud de Montard ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Cannon Smith: > Thanks for the idea. I did try that before to see if I could jumpstart the > process, but unfortunately it doesn’t work. 4D thinks the process is already > there. And it it there. It just doesn’t seem to be executing. Yep, same here. I do have a method that would start the process again. Problem is: when it hangs it can´t be quit, even from the Server-admin-window. Greetings from Germany, Bernd Fröhlich ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Just saw this happen to our production server tonight. We have a stored procedure that simply calls New Log File every few minutes. About an hour ago it just stopped working. The process is still there in the process list, and nothing else seems wrong with the server, but this very simple stored procedure just stopped working. I've never seen this happen in 4D before. 4D v16.2, Windows Server 2012, 64-bit Houston, er, Clichy -- we have a problem here. -- Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Steve, I have a few that I've been running for a long time. #1 is a method that manages sending emails. Emails created by users and the system go into a que and then are sent by the server. The method just sits and runs every few minutes. Another one runs every few minutes to update the current sales totals that live in arrays in the server process. Client machines grab the data from there if they are interested. Some guys will stay up until midnight on the end of the month to get a screenshot of themselves on top. I've got a number of other house keeping kind of methods that run at various times. These are controlled by another stored method that wakes up every few minutes and checks to see if there are any methods to run. This makes it easy to schedule things that I want to run in off times or on schedules like once a week or so. But you have a point about some stored methods bogging things down. Reading email turned out to be one. So much so I just moved those operations to a separate database. It just runs every few minutes and checks if there are emails to download, does so if there are, unpacks the attachments and such and puts it all in a watched folder for the main db to read in via a stored method over there. Uploading to AWS in bulk also turned out to be a bottleneck so I put that into the email database as well. This has the happy effect of moving that processing to a different core as well though that's becoming less of a thing. User's aren't impacted if they run slowly. I am a big fan of Execute on server as well but that's a different animal. On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech < 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > I've given up trying to write and use stored procedures, the Server is > just too fragile. I'd be open to anyone telling me you can really use > stored procedures in a "hard core" way without completely killing all > connected users performance. > > For years now, with each new release of 4D, I've been patiently waiting > for my opportunity to really utilize the power of the server hardware our > Clients purchase. However, each new version I continue to find it is not > robust enough to really use stored procedures. > > -- Kirk Brooks San Francisco, CA === *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.* *- Edmund Burke* ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Thread-safe coding (Was: Server Process "Frozen"-ish)
On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech < 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > Wow… this turned out to be a lot longer post than I expected. But it might be helpful to less experienced 4D developers. Dude, you've been hiding your light under a bushel...you should write long posts more often! Great summary of options for improving/managing stored procedures. I just want to add or emphasize a couple of things about pre-emptive (thread safe/multi-core) processes. First though, a caveat: I don't know what I'm talking about. I mean that what I'm going to say is not well field-tested in 4D and that I would _very_ much appreciate hearing from anyone that has real-world experience running pre-emptive threads in 4D. Okay, now the points: * You don't need to use workers for pre-emptive threads, you can use Execute on server or New process too. * You can't use plug-ins at all. Not sure when/if that will change, but it's a constraint we have to live with. Someone at 4D or Rob L. could probably give us a guess if there will ever be a chance for support for plug-ins in thread-safe processes. * The original source code for 4DIC is super, super, super old. Not sure how much it's changed down the years but, yeah * You can't use LAUNCH EXTERNAL PROCESS at all. Not sure when/if that will change, but it's a constraint we have to live with. (I doubt that this one will every change, but what do I know.) So, how _can_ we safely communicate with the outside world from a thread-safe process? I can think of at least four ways: 1) The database itself. 2) External files. 3) CALL FORM / CALL WORKER. 4) The HTTP Get and HTTP Request commands. Comments below. - The database itself - Yes, absolutely, this is a great way to go. - External files - Hmmm. Well, it's got a lot more merit in theory than you might think, but there are problems. As I've mentioned before, I accidentally found a fatal bug using CALL WORKER and a worker to stream log data to a worker that would in turn stream the data to disk. Bog standard log processing design. Kills 4D (stacks up redundant processes on Mac until you have to quit, crashes Win) - in my case in about a minute. I sent in a sample database to illustrate the bug (and some crazy runtime errors to match in the Runtime Explorer) during V16.0. I've retested in .1 and 2 and I think through R3 on that branch. Still not working. For the record, this is true of cooperative and pre-emptive threads...although they behave a bit differently. The issue seems to be around a file lock not being released properly and so you get an "impossible" race condition. So I don't trust external file support for the moment. Bummer. CALL FORM / CALL WORKER I guess. I like the commands, but they're not designed to run without losing messages when you kill a worker or shut down. That can be fine, or it can make them a non-starter, it depends on what you're doing. I think that instead of pushing messages at a pre-emptive process, I would have a pre-emptive thread call out for tasks or what have you. Kind of an instinct, I'd appreciate hearing other people's real-world results - good or bad. HTTP Get / HTTP Request Right, this looks like a very promising option. Welsh Harris tells me that he's been using these commands successfully in pre-emptive threads. It sure looks like 4D went to trouble to make them work in pre-emptive mode, so good on them. The thing about these commands is that they give you a whole lot more than the ability to call out for a Web page, they give you the ability to communicate with *any* kind of service that allows for messaging over HTTP. Frankly, that's nearly everything these days. You can push/pull data from mail servers, logging services, etc. this way. It isn't that hard to find intermediary services to do that kind of service proxying for you. Partly this is because 80/443 tend to be open on all networks, so you find many clever services build to run over themand now you see another reason I'm so intent on having a full JSON parser natively in 4D...can't use NTK's parser in a pre-emptive process. Oh. Yeah, a lack of native JSON parsing can make this HTTP-based approach a non-starter in some cases. Also a few comments about pre-emptive processing generally: * They're not magic. * It looks really challenging to implement, so well done 4D for getting even this far. * It sounds like a bunch of the limits 4D imposes come from the OS level. So, it's not 4D, it's reality. I feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt on this for sure. * Doesn't support dot notation someone said the other day? I'd like to know the story on that, maybe they're using an external library that isn't thread-safe for their parsing? * Many tasks can't readily or productively be parallelized. Nature of things. * The
RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Sep 13, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Stephen J. Orth wrote: > I've given up trying to write and use stored procedures, the Server is just > too fragile. I'd be open to anyone telling me you can really use stored > procedures in a "hard core" way without completely killing all connected > users performance. > > For years now, with each new release of 4D, I've been patiently waiting for > my opportunity to really utilize the power of the server hardware our Clients > purchase. However, each new version I continue to find it is not robust > enough to really use stored procedures. I’m a user of Stored Procedures in all my 4D applications. But there are some things I avoid doing to reduce the impact on connected clients. Here are some things I think about when creating a Stored Procedure. Don’t use 4D Internet Commands plugin calls if possible. Why? Because when a plugin call is made the 4D cooperative scheduler can be blocked until the plugin command finishes. And that means any other code that needs to run on 4D Server — in other stored procedure or more importantly in triggers — can’t execute. Here is a real world example: You have a Stored Procedure that periodically checks an email account for new messages, downloads the messages and attachments and then does some processing. I’ve found that sometimes email servers are not too responsive. So commands like POP3_MsgInfo or POP3_GetMessage can take many seconds to complete. And during those seconds no other 4D code on the server can run. So a user tries to save a record, and it appears 4D Client hangs. That’s because there is some code in the trigger and it can’t execute until the plugin command returns control back to the 4D scheduler who can then switch out of the Stored Procedure method and give the trigger some time to execute. So users complained that periodically 4D hangs. You log the times of this happening and find that at the exact same time the email retrieval Stored Procedure has woken up and is doing its email work. The fix for me was to kill the email Stored Procedure and run a copy of 4D Client on the 4D Server machine and have it run the email retrieval method instead. The problem immediately went away. It’s an extra hassle. You you have to make sure the 4D Client is always running and relaunches after a machine restart. But it’s a doable fix. And it solved my problem. You can usually get away with sending the occasional email from a Stored Procedures. But you can run into the same problem if you send a lot of emails and/or have large attachments. So you have to careful. And if you don’t have any triggers, then users will not experience the hangs. Of course any other Stored Procedure on the server are still affected. This is the way 4D works with cooperative tasks. And plugin calls live in the 4D world of cooperative processes. There are plugin API commands to let the plugin yield back to the 4D Scheduler. But the plugin developer must use them, and sometimes that’s hard to do in the plugin in certain situations. In the past 4D indicated it would like to eliminate the 4D Internet Commands plugin and replace it with native commands. (Anybody else remember hearing that?) I think this is part of the reason why. It would easier to implement non-blocking versions of POP3_MsgInfo, POP3_GetMessage, POP3_Download, etc. They can better handle the situations and yield time to the 4D scheduler more often. Another thing to consider is being a processor hog in a Stored Procedure. Say you have a method that takes 1 minute to run as a Stored Procedure. It is doing queries, record saves, record deletes, typical database operations. But it does thousands of them at a time. It’s like having a burst of many users all doing many things at the same time. Users notice 4D Client gets “sluggish” at times. It’s running slow. Then it is back to normal. The fix is to not have the Stored Procedure run at “full speed” until it is done. Slow it down. Have it delay itself often to yield processing time to other users. Here’s another real world example: In some databases I implement a “soft delete” mechanism where a record is not immediately deleted. Instead a “DeletedRecordDate” field in the table is used to know if a record has been “marked” for deletion. You have a Stored Procedure that wakes up periodically and searching for any records with a DeletedRecordDate that is say over 30 days old. Then you physically delete those records with the DELETE RECORD command. The “Purge Deleted Records” Stored Procedure is written to not be a processor hog. Inside all for loops there is a DELAY PROCESS(Current Process;1) command. You can use more than 1 tick. Maybe 10 ticks is better. But the key is to force the Stored Procedure to yield to other processes. Instead of doing 1,000 QUERY and then 1,000 DELETE RECORD commands in a tight loop that takes 30 seconds to run, maybe it takes 2 minutes to run with the proc
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I was hoping that with the Preemptive processes we could actually accomplish this. I have not tried it as of yet though with v16. I will stick with ‘Butlers’ as we called them, for now. Jody Jody Bevan ARGUS Productions Inc. Developer Argus Productions Inc. <https://www.facebook.com/ArgusProductions/> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:38 PM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > I've given up trying to write and use stored procedures, the Server is just > too fragile. I'd be open to anyone telling me you can really use stored > procedures in a "hard core" way without completely killing all connected > users performance. > > For years now, with each new release of 4D, I've been patiently waiting for > my opportunity to really utilize the power of the server hardware our Clients > purchase. However, each new version I continue to find it is not robust > enough to really use stored procedures. > > > Steve > > -Original Message- > From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Arnaud de > Montard via 4D_Tech > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 3:34 PM > To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > Cc: Arnaud de Montard > Subject: Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish > > >> Le 13 sept. 2017 à 18:46, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> >> a écrit : >> >> [...] >> >> Just a workaround suggestion.. > > I use something very similar (a table describing what job to do + when to > start). From the ages were I understood that I was unable to write an error > free stored procedure. > > -- > Arnaud > > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I've given up trying to write and use stored procedures, the Server is just too fragile. I'd be open to anyone telling me you can really use stored procedures in a "hard core" way without completely killing all connected users performance. For years now, with each new release of 4D, I've been patiently waiting for my opportunity to really utilize the power of the server hardware our Clients purchase. However, each new version I continue to find it is not robust enough to really use stored procedures. Steve -Original Message- From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 3:34 PM To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> Cc: Arnaud de Montard Subject: Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish > Le 13 sept. 2017 à 18:46, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a > écrit : > > [...] > > Just a workaround suggestion.. I use something very similar (a table describing what job to do + when to start). From the ages were I understood that I was unable to write an error free stored procedure. -- Arnaud ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
> Le 13 sept. 2017 à 18:46, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a > écrit : > > [...] > > Just a workaround suggestion.. I use something very similar (a table describing what job to do + when to start). From the ages were I understood that I was unable to write an error free stored procedure. -- Arnaud ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi Nigel,
Thanks for the idea. I did try that before to see if I could jumpstart the
process, but unfortunately it doesn’t work. 4D thinks the process is already
there. And it it there. It just doesn’t seem to be executing.
--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> $_L_PostActionProcesser:=Execute on
> server("DATA_BackgroundRecordHandler";128000;"Post Save Data
> Processor";True;*)
>
> That makes sure the process is running.
>
> Now I know the process should not quit-but you never know what might happen.
> I have not come across it quitting for no reason but i have come across
> reasons to ‘end’ the process. The above ‘solution’ makes sure it is
> running(and avoids starting it at startup on the server).
>
> Just a workaround suggestion..
>
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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I have server side processes that run in the background. Because i like to
start as little as necessary at startup my code ‘automatically’ starts the
process.
So in my code(where it writes the jobs into a table for the server to process).
After the client side(or server side) has written a task it calls.
$_L_PostActionProcesser:=Execute on
server("DATA_BackgroundRecordHandler";128000;"Post Save Data Processor";True;*)
That makes sure the process is running.
Now I know the process should not quit-but you never know what might happen. I
have not come across it quitting for no reason but i have come across reasons
to ‘end’ the process. The above ‘solution’ makes sure it is running(and avoids
starting it at startup on the server).
Just a workaround suggestion..
Nigel Greenlee.
> On 11 Sep 2017, at 07:43, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
>
> Cannon Smith:
>
>> I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months
>> ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background
>> processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds
>> to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a
>> decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just
>> sort of quits.
>>
>> By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough
>> that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But
>> cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in
>> the last few months.
>>
>> By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to
>> take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the
>> process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary.
>> It’s like the code just quit executing in that process.
>>
>> I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do
>> that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give
>> me a starting place to look?
>
>
> Same here. 4D V16.1 32 Bit on OS X 10.11.6.
> A background process does some reporting, sends and receives mails, etc.
> Every once in a while it just stops. No idea why. At least I am not the only
> one.
> Now we just have to find what is common on all our servers...
>
> Greetings from Germany,
> Bernd Fröhlich
> **
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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Old network layer on the Windows platform. That’s where most of it is happening. There is about 35 servers involved. New network layer on the Mac platform (different product). Just one server—it’s just an in house database. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Sep 10, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > New network layer on both platforms? ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi, We have run into issues where the server is running on windows 64bit and it is producing PDFs using PDF Creator directly. Our solution was to move away from doing that and using php and FPDF to create the PDFs instead. Dani > On Sep 11, 2017, at 12:43 AM, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > Cannon Smith: > >> I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months >> ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background >> processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds >> to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a >> decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just >> sort of quits. >> >> By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough >> that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But >> cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in >> the last few months. >> >> By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to >> take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the >> process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. >> It’s like the code just quit executing in that process. >> >> I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do >> that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give >> me a starting place to look? > > > Same here. 4D V16.1 32 Bit on OS X 10.11.6. > A background process does some reporting, sends and receives mails, etc. > Every once in a while it just stops. No idea why. At least I am not the only > one. > Now we just have to find what is common on all our servers... > > Greetings from Germany, > Bernd Fröhlich > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Cannon Smith: > I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months > ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background > processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to > see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade > now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of > quits. > > By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough > that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But > cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the > last few months. > > By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take > care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the > process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. > It’s like the code just quit executing in that process. > > I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do > that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give > me a starting place to look? Same here. 4D V16.1 32 Bit on OS X 10.11.6. A background process does some reporting, sends and receives mails, etc. Every once in a while it just stops. No idea why. At least I am not the only one. Now we just have to find what is common on all our servers... Greetings from Germany, Bernd Fröhlich ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Sep 8, 2017, at 5:05 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months > ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background > processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to > see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade > now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of > quits. > > By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough > that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But > cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the > last few months. > > By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take > care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the > process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. > It’s like the code just quit executing in that process. This was happening in a system I upgraded to v16, relatively often. I never really narrowed down the cause, but after going through the code that executed, some rewriting, and explicitly handling locked records (i.e. making sure a record was loaded read-write before modifying and saving), the problem went away. Jim Crate ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
New network layer on both platforms? > On Sep 8, 2017, at 5:05 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months > ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi Milan, Thanks for the idea, but no, I’m not using GRAPH anywhere. It isn’t just one particular process that does this, either. I’ve seen three different processes do it—all three different code paths. One just updates a bunch of records, one checks with a web service for a small piece of information, and the third one (different product) also updates a bunch of records. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Sep 9, 2017, at 12:38 AM, Milan Adamov via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Are you using GRAPH command in that process? I handled one case where in 64 > bit GRAPH caused a freeze, fixed in 16.2. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
On Sep 8, 2017, at 23:22, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > I jumped from v15.x where it was working fine to v16.1. Since you’re at v15 > r5, maybe it was something that was introduced in one of the v15 R releases. Are you using GRAPH command in that process? I handled one case where in 64 bit GRAPH caused a freeze, fixed in 16.2. Milan ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Okay. I guess it’s nice to know I’m not the only one seeing this. Sorry for you guys, though! :-) -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Sep 8, 2017, at 3:33 PM, BTB-David wrote: > > I would say about that yes. We have several server processes and only one > gets called to our attention for not working. No one complains about the > others and I haven’t looked into it to see if they have stopped too and no > one noticed or if they are still happily working. I’ve been meaning to spend > some time looking at it and haven’t had a chance yet. > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Cannon, I would say about that yes. We have several server processes and only one gets called to our attention for not working. No one complains about the others and I haven’t looked into it to see if they have stopped too and no one noticed or if they are still happily working. I’ve been meaning to spend some time looking at it and haven’t had a chance yet. Thanks! David Conley By The Book, Inc. Office: 815-234-7530 Direct Line: 815-406-5502 Fax: 815-234-7532 http://www.bythebook.com > On Sep 8, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Hi David, > > How about timing? Just once every two-three months per server like us? > This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com) unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.com/track/unsub.php?u=30055319&id=292f69a675514e51a1e96bb53aaa57e5.6uKpduIsjJ%2FEqVQ1r%2BdLr66Tu1w%3D&r=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Funsub%3Fmd_email%3D4d_tech%2540lists.4d.com) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Steve, I am seeing it in v15R5 as well as v16.0 build 16.209177. We plan on our next release to be on v16.2 but we’re not there yet. Thanks! David Conley By The Book, Inc. Office: 815-234-7530 Direct Line: 815-406-5502 Fax: 815-234-7532 http://www.bythebook.com > On Sep 8, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Stephen J. Orth > wrote: > > David, <> > > Have you upgraded to the official V16 version (V16, V16.1, or V16.2) and has > this problem stayed, or gone away? > This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com) unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.com/track/unsub.php?u=30055319&id=0d6c5e43ca4e4de6ad1d633ec16a9ec9.6uKpduIsjJ%2FEqVQ1r%2BdLr66Tu1w%3D&r=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Funsub%3Fmd_email%3D4d_tech%2540lists.4d.com) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Cannon, I'm in the same boat. I cannot provide enough information to support a 4D TS case, but something is not right...stability has gone to hell. I've gone from using 2004 which was rock solid, to progressively less stable conditions, to where now with V15 R5 I literally have someone logging into every one of our customers server on a daily basis, just to catch any issues. I'm trying to see if we can move to V16.2 and hope this is better? Steve -Original Message- From: Cannon Smith [mailto:can...@synergyfarmsolutions.com] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 4:23 PM To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> Cc: Stephen J. Orth Subject: Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish I jumped from v15.x where it was working fine to v16.1. Since you’re at v15 r5, maybe it was something that was introduced in one of the v15 R releases. I haven’t posted anything before because I don’t have much that is concrete, but it has happened enough to know something is going on. Thanks. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Hi David, How about timing? Just once every two-three months per server like us? Thanks. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Sep 8, 2017, at 3:19 PM, BTB-David via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > We started seeing the same problem when we upgraded to v15R5 too. A process > that ran for years on older versions just like Cannon described just stopped > doing it’s thing. A reboot resolves it. We are seeing it on 32 bit server > Mac & Windows. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I jumped from v15.x where it was working fine to v16.1. Since you’re at v15 r5, maybe it was something that was introduced in one of the v15 R releases. I haven’t posted anything before because I don’t have much that is concrete, but it has happened enough to know something is going on. Thanks. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 > On Sep 8, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Stephen J. Orth > wrote: > > I can provide only antidotal information, but we too are seeing something > like this. We happen to be using V15 R5, which is basically V16, however > since upgrading to it we have seen A LOT of server related issues that we > have never encountered before. The code ran just fine in V13... ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
We started seeing the same problem when we upgraded to v15R5 too. A process that ran for years on older versions just like Cannon described just stopped doing it’s thing. A reboot resolves it. We are seeing it on 32 bit server Mac & Windows. Thanks! David Conley By The Book, Inc. Office: 815-234-7530 Direct Line: 815-406-5502 Fax: 815-234-7532 http://www.bythebook.com > On Sep 8, 2017, at 4:13 PM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > Cannon, > > I can provide only antidotal information, but we too are seeing something > like this. We happen to be using V15 R5, which is basically V16, however > since upgrading to it we have seen A LOT of server related issues that we > have never encountered before. The code ran just fine in V13... > This email was sent to 4d_tech@lists.4d.com (mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com) unsubscribe from this list (http://emailclicks.bythebook.com/track/unsub.php?u=30055319&id=d66a086fa68144c883a62ea6bdf1ebbb.6uKpduIsjJ%2FEqVQ1r%2BdLr66Tu1w%3D&r=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Funsub%3Fmd_email%3D4d_tech%2540lists.4d.com) ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
RE: Server Process "Frozen"-ish
Cannon, I can provide only antidotal information, but we too are seeing something like this. We happen to be using V15 R5, which is basically V16, however since upgrading to it we have seen A LOT of server related issues that we have never encountered before. The code ran just fine in V13... Steve -Original Message- From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 4:05 PM To: 4D iNug Technical <4D_Tech@lists.4D.com> Cc: Cannon Smith Subject: Server Process "Frozen"-ish I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits. By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months. By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process. I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give me a starting place to look? Thanks. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Server Process "Frozen"-ish
I’ve seen something odd since upgrading our customers to v16.1 a few months ago. This is on 64-bit server, both platforms. There are a few background processes that continually run on the servers, waking up every few seconds to see if there is work to be done. This has worked without problem for a decade now, but starting with v16.1 we occasionally have a process the just sort of quits. By occasionally, I mean maybe once in 2-3 months per server. Little enough that I didn’t pay much attention at first—just relaunched the server. But cumulatively (across all servers) it has happened probably 20-30 times in the last few months. By the process sort of quitting, I mean that the tasks it is supposed to take care of just stop getting taken care of. The activity monitor shows the process is still there and nothing I have noticed seems out of the ordinary. It’s like the code just quit executing in that process. I know I need to get more detailed information and will start trying to do that, but wonder if anyone has experienced anything similar that might give me a starting place to look? Thanks. -- Cannon.Smith Synergy Farm Solutions Inc. Hill Spring, AB Canada 403-626-3236 ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
