Re: [AI] : DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dear Sir, I need more information on our rights of concession in Govt. and PSU especially in Railways and also explain what you mean by CSR. With regards, R Muralidhar - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ACCESSINDIA@ACCESSINDIA.ORG.IN Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:26 PM Subject: [AI] : DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air : Hello friends, : : Acceding to the idea of not confusing to a mess, please allow me too to say : that let us not confuse the issue of concesional tickets with discounted : tickets or reduced tickets. Discounted/reduced tickets could be offers of : concerned Airways as a part of their drive to get hold on maximum no. of : passengers. But concessional tickets could be with a different entity as a : matter of right emanating from a sense of CSR, Govt. policy on : disability-rights empowerment. It is true the concessional moves are till : date applicable on Govt. PSUs, the rights on concessional tickets spare : you being subjected to availability of discounted seats. I suppose if : Airways could afford the discounted reduced tickets, they can afford : concessional tickets too provided they take it as a matter of right. Escort : or not escort, I suppose it should be optional whether I go with or without : escort. concession to escort definitely needs serious considerationh as : that makes us literally different from a normal passenger. He can travel a : distance spending Rs. 5000 while a person like me with escort cannot travel : same distance without more than double to the same if I have to travel : carefree. : : Allotment of categorical seating rows or wings certainly categorizes us : different discriminable while we are on the move to integrate us with rest : of the world. As far as emergency situation, I understand when 'rush for : life' is in question, it is my life first for everybody-let the crew save : themselves first then think of the rest. So give us our right to trafvel : even if be it for meagre 1 2 or 3 percent but ensure our journey on the : given date-this is my plea. : : : : : : To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. : : To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at : http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] : DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
hi, csr means corporate social responsibility. in effect it is the responsibility that corporates owe towards society i.e. people who are affected directly and indirectly because of the corporates business practices. regarding concessions and schemes there is a publication titled Programmes and concessions for the Disabled. This publication is available with Ministry of Social Justice Empowerment. It is in two volumes - one relates to Central Government while the other relates to State Governments. regards rajive raturi - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] : DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Sir, I need more information on our rights of concession in Govt. and PSU especially in Railways and also explain what you mean by CSR. With regards, R Muralidhar - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ACCESSINDIA@ACCESSINDIA.ORG.IN Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:26 PM Subject: [AI] : DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air : Hello friends, : : Acceding to the idea of not confusing to a mess, please allow me too to say : that let us not confuse the issue of concesional tickets with discounted : tickets or reduced tickets. Discounted/reduced tickets could be offers of : concerned Airways as a part of their drive to get hold on maximum no. of : passengers. But concessional tickets could be with a different entity as a : matter of right emanating from a sense of CSR, Govt. policy on : disability-rights empowerment. It is true the concessional moves are till : date applicable on Govt. PSUs, the rights on concessional tickets spare : you being subjected to availability of discounted seats. I suppose if : Airways could afford the discounted reduced tickets, they can afford : concessional tickets too provided they take it as a matter of right. Escort : or not escort, I suppose it should be optional whether I go with or without : escort. concession to escort definitely needs serious considerationh as : that makes us literally different from a normal passenger. He can travel a : distance spending Rs. 5000 while a person like me with escort cannot travel : same distance without more than double to the same if I have to travel : carefree. : : Allotment of categorical seating rows or wings certainly categorizes us : different discriminable while we are on the move to integrate us with rest : of the world. As far as emergency situation, I understand when 'rush for : life' is in question, it is my life first for everybody-let the crew save : themselves first then think of the rest. So give us our right to trafvel : even if be it for meagre 1 2 or 3 percent but ensure our journey on the : given date-this is my plea. : : : : : : To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. : : To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at : http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
[AI] : DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hello friends, Acceding to the idea of not confusing to a mess, please allow me too to say that let us not confuse the issue of concesional tickets with discounted tickets or reduced tickets. Discounted/reduced tickets could be offers of concerned Airways as a part of their drive to get hold on maximum no. of passengers. But concessional tickets could be with a different entity as a matter of right emanating from a sense of CSR, Govt. policy on disability-rights empowerment. It is true the concessional moves are till date applicable on Govt. PSUs, the rights on concessional tickets spare you being subjected to availability of discounted seats. I suppose if Airways could afford the discounted reduced tickets, they can afford concessional tickets too provided they take it as a matter of right. Escort or not escort, I suppose it should be optional whether I go with or without escort. concession to escort definitely needs serious considerationh as that makes us literally different from a normal passenger. He can travel a distance spending Rs. 5000 while a person like me with escort cannot travel same distance without more than double to the same if I have to travel carefree. Allotment of categorical seating rows or wings certainly categorizes us different discriminable while we are on the move to integrate us with rest of the world. As far as emergency situation, I understand when 'rush for life' is in question, it is my life first for everybody-let the crew save themselves first then think of the rest. So give us our right to trafvel even if be it for meagre 1 2 or 3 percent but ensure our journey on the given date-this is my plea. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
hi friends, Can anybody have e copy of DGCA Guidelines? if yes please forward it to my ID. With Regards Neeraj Manglik Mobile number: 9312902018 Yahoo id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype id: neerajmanglik We cannot be more sensitive to pleasure without being more sensitive to pain. - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
O ok. I was not thinking that this is your favourite subject. Kasha. - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Kasha, I will certainly know when a topic is crossed the limits. We are still having meaningful discussions on the issue. I am perfectly aware when a discussion is going far beyond intended topic. If you do not want to read the mails of this topic, there is a Delete key on your keyboard. Make good use of it. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kasha Sent: Thursday, 10 August 2006 8:09 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hae, I'm really fed up with this topic. it's more than enough, I guess. - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rakesh In which sector of I.A. is there no concession? Harish. - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air As I said, In Indian Airlines, the special class for blind and other disabled persons is M. It has very limited number of seats, may be, one or two on each flight. In some flights they do not have this class at all. In such,cases, they do not issue blind concession at all and you are forced to buy a full fair or any other category of fairs if it is available. I have more than once faced this situation. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife. Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost non existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport authorities because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also pay airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens in Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered to disabled passengers. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter of concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some clarifications. to my knowledge, during the times of normal fares, concessional tickets were offered to pwds irrespective of the fact of how many pwds travelled on the flight and was given purely on the grounds of disability. check me if i am wrong. in recent times discounted tickets are offered to persons other than pwds on a certain number of seats per flight. this is a business practise to get as many persons to use the particular airline and has nothing to do with disability. so i assume if there are 20 discounted tickets available on a particular flight and 25 pwds travelling, only 20 might get discounted tickets and the other 5 will have to travel on normal fares , or would these five then be entitled to concessional tickets? if the former is correct then this logic and practise is discriminatory and needs to be addressed. in which case what we need to counter is that irrespective of number of discounted seats
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife. Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost non existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport authorities because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also pay airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens in Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered to disabled passengers. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hi Rajeev, As I understand it, there are various levels of discount fairs available depending on the date of booking and the passenger load. For example, Air deccan tickets for Hyderabad to Bangalore range from 500 to 3100 excluding airport taxes. 500 tickets are rarely available. On an average if you book 3 to 4 weeks in advance you will get around 1000/1200 Around 2 weeks it will be 1500 to 2000. If one is lucky enough one or two flights do not have too many bookings and even 2 or 3 days before you get tickets at around 1500 to 2000 or even less. So, what level of discount do we ask for blind passengers? We can certainly ask for only discounted fair tickets always for blind persons but I really don't think they will agree to that. It is too dynamic and fluctuating. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 1:07 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
That was by airdeccan and airdeccan does not give any concession to blind passengers. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Oh well, I once travelled from Hyderabad to Bangalore for Rs 721 inclusive of taxes. Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harish Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 9:01 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many tickets on discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this is my personal opinion. regards rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats and not just blind persons. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM To: ACCESSINDIA@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take care. We require an escort to assist us during the travel. we want a concessional ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could do that for us. Let the checking authority take care of verify the veracity of a true escort or a 'business associate'??? We are aware of this fraud is enough to know our responsibilities. But facilities could never be denied upon apprehensions. Seating a blind person at the rear or front-should it be an issue? Why should a blind person be discriminated to get allotted a particular seat?? Let the crew
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
very true, only limited number of seats are allocated for concessional tickets. For example, In Indian airlines, the class of concession for PWD and Senior citizens is class M and in Airsahara it is class Q and in Jet airways it is class S. Many a time, they will tell you that there is no M or H or Q class on a particular flight. In this situation, we are left with no alternative but to buy a non-concessional ticket. What we are demanding is that we must get fifty percent concession on full price to the extent of last seat available on the flight. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter of concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some clarifications. to my knowledge, during the times of normal fares, concessional tickets were offered to pwds irrespective of the fact of how many pwds travelled on the flight and was given purely on the grounds of disability. check me if i am wrong. in recent times discounted tickets are offered to persons other than pwds on a certain number of seats per flight. this is a business practise to get as many persons to use the particular airline and has nothing to do with disability. so i assume if there are 20 discounted tickets available on a particular flight and 25 pwds travelling, only 20 might get discounted tickets and the other 5 will have to travel on normal fares , or would these five then be entitled to concessional tickets? if the former is correct then this logic and practise is discriminatory and needs to be addressed. in which case what we need to counter is that irrespective of number of discounted seats in a flight pwds should at all times be given discounted tickets using the logic that if the tickets were not discounted pwds would in any case have got a concessional ticket. also most of us in the list feel that it would not be correct to ask for discounted/ concessional tickets for escorts and the airlines need to provide facilities to offset the same. can i have your feedback by today evening as we are to place our suggestions by tomorrow. thanks rajive- Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi! I wanted to send this mail a couple of days ago but apparently it didn't travel to the list. There is something wrong with my LotusNotes. For example, I am getting 2 copies of every mail from AI. Anyway, I am getting the issue sorted out. Of late I have been opting for tele check-in and choosing my own seat. I have been flying Jet for the last 10 years but never been compelled to seat on the last row which doesn't recline at all. Of course it's convenient to be in row 25 or 26 from where we can reach the WashRoom comfortably and yet not be bothered by passengers frequenting it or by the non reclining row. This also gives a sense of comfort the crew stationed near the rear exit. On the issue of concession, we should try and see if our original S class status is maintained even when we opt for the lowest prevailing fare Thereby allowing us a little more flexibility with scheduling etc. Asking for a further discount will only make us feel second class. After all, those of us who often fly are not economically backward. however this is my individual opinion. A few years ago I requested for braille safety instruction manual and was happy to see Jet implement it within six month of that incident. A reasonable request that we can make is the provision to receive us from the car park on arrival. I believe this provision is being made effective in EU countries. Of course due to personal rapport, I get this privilege at Kolkata airport from where I frequently fly and thus feel that the same can be institutionalized. Atul Ranjan Sahay Head Business Excellence JUSCO Ltd. Phone: +91-9234553326 DISCLAIMER*** Information contained and transmitted by this e-mail is confidential and proprietary to Tata Steel Ltd. and is intended for use only by the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient , you are notified that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited and you are requested to delete this e-mail immediately and notify the originator. Tata Steel does not enter into any binding agreement with any party by e-mail. Any views expressed by an individual do not necessarily reflect the view of Tata Steel. Tata Steel is not responsible for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of information provided. While this e-mail has been checked for all known viruses the addressee should also scan for viruses. To know more about Tata Steel please visit www.tatasteel.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Let me once again clarify that there is no special class for blind passengers in 1. air deccan, 2. king fisher, 3. spicejet. 4. goair. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajeev, As I understand it, there are various levels of discount fairs available depending on the date of booking and the passenger load. For example, Air deccan tickets for Hyderabad to Bangalore range from 500 to 3100 excluding airport taxes. 500 tickets are rarely available. On an average if you book 3 to 4 weeks in advance you will get around 1000/1200 Around 2 weeks it will be 1500 to 2000. If one is lucky enough one or two flights do not have too many bookings and even 2 or 3 days before you get tickets at around 1500 to 2000 or even less. So, what level of discount do we ask for blind passengers? We can certainly ask for only discounted fair tickets always for blind persons but I really don't think they will agree to that. It is too dynamic and fluctuating. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 1:07 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hi Kiran Supplementing on what you have said, At Jet Air, at the time of booking a ticket, if all the seats marked for concession ticket was sold off, the passenger is wait listed. However, they say, if you pay full fare, you would get a confirmed ticket. When such a situation arrose, I would book on Indian airlines and book a confirmed ticket. This restriction is not there with I.A. I can only guess when the seat gets confirmed in the last minute they may be taking the concessional fare. I have not run into that situation. By choice, I always prefer Indian Airlines and folks up there are very sweet with me as until now. Harish. - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife. Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost non existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport authorities because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also pay airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens in Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered to disabled passengers. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter of concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hae, I'm really fed up with this topic. it's more than enough, I guess. - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rakesh In which sector of I.A. is there no concession? Harish. - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air As I said, In Indian Airlines, the special class for blind and other disabled persons is M. It has very limited number of seats, may be, one or two on each flight. In some flights they do not have this class at all. In such,cases, they do not issue blind concession at all and you are forced to buy a full fair or any other category of fairs if it is available. I have more than once faced this situation. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dear Kasha, I will certainly know when a topic is crossed the limits. We are still having meaningful discussions on the issue. I am perfectly aware when a discussion is going far beyond intended topic. If you do not want to read the mails of this topic, there is a Delete key on your keyboard. Make good use of it. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kasha Sent: Thursday, 10 August 2006 8:09 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hae, I'm really fed up with this topic. it's more than enough, I guess. - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rakesh In which sector of I.A. is there no concession? Harish. - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air As I said, In Indian Airlines, the special class for blind and other disabled persons is M. It has very limited number of seats, may be, one or two on each flight. In some flights they do not have this class at all. In such,cases, they do not issue blind concession at all and you are forced to buy a full fair or any other category of fairs if it is available. I have more than once faced this situation. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dr Rakesh: The explanation very often from Air Deccan is that the fairs in themselves are very less, compared to other airlines, and so they feel they need not offer concession. Sounds correct, though it needs to be probed if this in itself can preclude any airlines from giving concessional tickets (or discounted tickets as some may wish to call it). Also, if most of us feel concessional tickets are important, why don't we ask for a clause in PWD act or relevant acts that mandates concession in transportation, however nominal it may be? Subramani -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr Rakesh Jain Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:30 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air *** No virus was detected in the attachment no filename Your mail has been scanned by InterScan MSS. *** That was by airdeccan and airdeccan does not give any concession to blind passengers. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Oh well, I once travelled from Hyderabad to Bangalore for Rs 721 inclusive of taxes. Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harish Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 9:01 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many tickets on discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this is my personal opinion. regards rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
got it kiran, discounted dtickets for the early birds. concessional tickets at all times. lets see how dgca responds to that. through this mail also a big thankyou to all of you who chipped in with valuable inputs. rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajeev, As I understand it, there are various levels of discount fairs available depending on the date of booking and the passenger load. For example, Air deccan tickets for Hyderabad to Bangalore range from 500 to 3100 excluding airport taxes. 500 tickets are rarely available. On an average if you book 3 to 4 weeks in advance you will get around 1000/1200 Around 2 weeks it will be 1500 to 2000. If one is lucky enough one or two flights do not have too many bookings and even 2 or 3 days before you get tickets at around 1500 to 2000 or even less. So, what level of discount do we ask for blind passengers? We can certainly ask for only discounted fair tickets always for blind persons but I really don't think they will agree to that. It is too dynamic and fluctuating. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 1:07 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't
[AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take care. We require an escort to assist us during the travel. we want a concessional ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could do that for us. Let the checking authority take care of verify the veracity of a true escort or a 'business associate'??? We are aware of this fraud is enough to know our responsibilities. But facilities could never be denied upon apprehensions. Seating a blind person at the rear or front-should it be an issue? Why should a blind person be discriminated to get allotted a particular seat?? Let the crew know where the person is requiring special attention. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats and not just blind persons. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM To: ACCESSINDIA@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take care. We require an escort to assist us during the travel. we want a concessional ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could do that for us. Let the checking authority take care of verify the veracity of a true escort or a 'business associate'??? We are aware of this fraud is enough to know our responsibilities. But facilities could never be denied upon apprehensions. Seating a blind person at the rear or front-should it be an issue? Why should a blind person be discriminated to get allotted a particular seat?? Let the crew know where the person is requiring special attention. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i n To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Well, friends I opine as follows: 1. Preamble: Semantic objections raised by some members are worth considering and necessary rectifications ought to be made in draft guidelines. enumeration of Broad principles would accord well with the initiative, however, let us remember that the guidelines are not a statute but are intended to facilitate actual operation in the situations when the disabled persons are traveling by air. 2. Seating: Principle of self determination has little to do with seat to be chosen by the disabled traveler. Safety and availability of immediate assistance are the prime considerations in such situations and not the big doctrines. Proximity to toilets/cabin crew is not an affront but an added convenience in my opinion. Insistence on choosing the seat of one's own choice may preclude any request by such a person for assistance for navigating to necessary facilities like lavatory etc. morally, and any inconvenience to others as a result of recalcitrant attitude about seating by the disabled may not be put up with by other passengers. Let us be clear that it is not segregation of the disabled, but an attempt to ensure ready availability of assistance, if required. Good guideline is to allot adjacent seat to escort. 3. concession: the disabled traveling by air are not surely economically backward and concession if any is a matter of individual airline's business policies. Surely it ought not to be accorded to escort, except when going for medical treatment etc. 4. in-transit stops: yes, the disabled passengers ought not to be confined inside the plane and they should be extended every assistance to disembark and re-embark. Rajesh. - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, Director General, Civil Aviation has prepared some guidelines for blind passengers and persons with disabilities travelling by Air. We are supposed to send our suggestion before they are finally adopted and issued as instructions for airlines. I am reproducing below the draft proposal and also recommendations prepared by one of our members Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. May I request you to send your suggestions as recommendations to DGCA at the earliest so that we may not lose any opportunity to make them realise our needs and requirements during air travel. I must draw your attention to some points that you must consider: 1. Jet Airways always makes blind passengers sit in the last row which is closest to the toilets. They tell us that they want to keep us nearest to the crew so that in case of any emergencey they may take proper and good care of blind passengers. Our submisstion is that the rear portion of the aircraft is more noisy as compared to the front portion and why should be made to sit closest to the toilets and get continuously disturbed by the visits of the passengers to the toilet? 2. Blind passengers myst be provided shuttle lounge facility at the airports with attendant. Normally, airport authorities make us sit with common public and the attendant goes away. He comes to pick us up only when the boarding starts. In the meanwhile, if we need any assistance for going to the toilet or drinking water or tea etc. we have no choice but to wait for him. If we are allowed lounge facility, all of our problems would be taken care of by the lounge attendant. 3. Airlines should give us concession on all categories of fairs. The airlines have a special category of fair with a very limited number of seats. Actually, we don't get any concession, it is actually a discounted ticket which is almost double the cost of cheapest fair available today in airlines. This means, they issue us tickets in waiting in spite of the availibality of seats in other categories of fair. 5. Escort should also get concessional tickets in air travel. So, Here's the draft proposal followed by suggestion and recommendations of Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. DRAFT GOVERNMENT OF INDIA Director General of Civil Aviation Opp. Safdarjung Airport, New Delhi-110003 CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS SECTION 3 - AIRTRANSPORT SERIES 'M' PART II JULY, 2006 EFFECTIVE FORTHWITH Subject: Carriage of physically challenged passengers 1. INTRODUCTION: Due to open sky policy the number of aircraft have increased for scheduled operation. Air transport has also become cheaper and is in the reach of common person. A large number of elderly passengers are traveling fare and wide, aboard commercial flights. Older and less healthy passengers often fly and it is expected that the airlines will look after them, should the need arise. Passengers with medical and physical disability also expect that all necessary facilities will be provided to them in-flight, without discrimination. Besides being a humanitarian issue
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
How do I get hold of these guidelines? Subramani -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rajesh asudani Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:26 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air *** No virus was detected in the attachment no filename Your mail has been scanned by InterScan MSS. *** Well, friends I opine as follows: 1. Preamble: Semantic objections raised by some members are worth considering and necessary rectifications ought to be made in draft guidelines. enumeration of Broad principles would accord well with the initiative, however, let us remember that the guidelines are not a statute but are intended to facilitate actual operation in the situations when the disabled persons are traveling by air. 2. Seating: Principle of self determination has little to do with seat to be chosen by the disabled traveler. Safety and availability of immediate assistance are the prime considerations in such situations and not the big doctrines. Proximity to toilets/cabin crew is not an affront but an added convenience in my opinion. Insistence on choosing the seat of one's own choice may preclude any request by such a person for assistance for navigating to necessary facilities like lavatory etc. morally, and any inconvenience to others as a result of recalcitrant attitude about seating by the disabled may not be put up with by other passengers. Let us be clear that it is not segregation of the disabled, but an attempt to ensure ready availability of assistance, if required. Good guideline is to allot adjacent seat to escort. 3. concession: the disabled traveling by air are not surely economically backward and concession if any is a matter of individual airline's business policies. Surely it ought not to be accorded to escort, except when going for medical treatment etc. 4. in-transit stops: yes, the disabled passengers ought not to be confined inside the plane and they should be extended every assistance to disembark and re-embark. Rajesh. - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, Director General, Civil Aviation has prepared some guidelines for blind passengers and persons with disabilities travelling by Air. We are supposed to send our suggestion before they are finally adopted and issued as instructions for airlines. I am reproducing below the draft proposal and also recommendations prepared by one of our members Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. May I request you to send your suggestions as recommendations to DGCA at the earliest so that we may not lose any opportunity to make them realise our needs and requirements during air travel. I must draw your attention to some points that you must consider: 1. Jet Airways always makes blind passengers sit in the last row which is closest to the toilets. They tell us that they want to keep us nearest to the crew so that in case of any emergencey they may take proper and good care of blind passengers. Our submisstion is that the rear portion of the aircraft is more noisy as compared to the front portion and why should be made to sit closest to the toilets and get continuously disturbed by the visits of the passengers to the toilet? 2. Blind passengers myst be provided shuttle lounge facility at the airports with attendant. Normally, airport authorities make us sit with common public and the attendant goes away. He comes to pick us up only when the boarding starts. In the meanwhile, if we need any assistance for going to the toilet or drinking water or tea etc. we have no choice but to wait for him. If we are allowed lounge facility, all of our problems would be taken care of by the lounge attendant. 3. Airlines should give us concession on all categories of fairs. The airlines have a special category of fair with a very limited number of seats. Actually, we don't get any concession, it is actually a discounted ticket which is almost double the cost of cheapest fair available today in airlines. This means, they issue us tickets in waiting in spite of the availibality of seats in other categories of fair. 5. Escort should also get concessional tickets in air travel. So, Here's the draft proposal followed by suggestion and recommendations of Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. DRAFT GOVERNMENT OF INDIA Director General of Civil Aviation Opp. Safdarjung Airport, New Delhi-110003 CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS SECTION 3 - AIRTRANSPORT SERIES 'M' PART II JULY, 2006 EFFECTIVE FORTHWITH Subject: Carriage of physically challenged passengers 1. INTRODUCTION: Due to open sky policy the number of aircraft have increased for scheduled operation. Air transport has also become cheaper
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dear Rajiv: There are two things --one we are talking about people with different degrees of disabilities and so, it's not possible to consider PWD's as one group. If this is correct, there ought to be different consideration for different groups. In the case of people who can manage themselves like the VIP's, the airlines must do more in either sensitising their groundstaff as to how they can aid us. Asking for ticket concessions doesn't sound reasonable, as air travel is meant for certain class of people and we haven't at this stage advanced to the level where it has become common for all. This, not withstanding the cheaper airlines. In the case of those severely disabled, such concessions may apply and I'm sure any sensible guideline or legislation will provide room for that. Except for one bad experience, where I was stopped from boarding the flight by some ill-informed ground staff, I feel traveling in aircraft is a really pleasant experience, assuming there are no emergencies. I especially found the flight assistants of Jet Airways to be very helpful. I wouldn't like to generalize this, because compassion or understanding isn't a general, but an individual trait. But, if airlines are willing to make their services customer-friendly they need to start with the disabled and providing certain training for their staff on such things as 'acting with understanding' may not be a bad idea. Subramani -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air *** No virus was detected in the attachment no filename Your mail has been scanned by InterScan MSS. *** i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many tickets on discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this is my personal opinion. regards rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats and not just blind persons. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM To: ACCESSINDIA@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take care. We require an escort to assist us during the travel. we want a concessional ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could do that for us. Let the checking authority take care of verify the veracity of a true escort or a 'business associate'??? We are aware of this fraud is enough
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many tickets on discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this is my personal opinion. regards rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats and not just blind persons. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM To: ACCESSINDIA@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take care. We require an escort to assist us during the travel. we want a concessional ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could do that for us. Let the checking authority take care
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
I have also been blind late in life, haven't yet had any mobility training and still need to travel frequently within india and internationally. With the kinds of facilities and assistance offered by airlines on almost all airlines and airports, I have traveled to, I have never felt the need for an escort to help me get to where I need to go. As a matter of fact, I have always been much more comfortable and have got things (like immigration/boarding ) much faster and without hastle with the airport staff (who are trained to do such things) than with someone escorting me. There are of course exceptional one-off bad experiences that I have heard from people on this and other lists; but I will attribute that more to human error than to the process/facilities offered by airlines. I will strongly urge for improvement and standardization of these facilities across airports and airlines rather than asking for discounts for escorts. Regards, Manish -Original Message- vFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaja, Kiran Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:14 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Oh well, I once travelled from Hyderabad to Bangalore for Rs 721 inclusive of taxes. Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harish Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 9:01 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many tickets on discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this is my personal opinion. regards rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats and not just blind persons. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter of concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some clarifications. to my knowledge, during the times of normal fares, concessional tickets were offered to pwds irrespective of the fact of how many pwds travelled on the flight and was given purely on the grounds of disability. check me if i am wrong. in recent times discounted tickets are offered to persons other than pwds on a certain number of seats per flight. this is a business practise to get as many persons to use the particular airline and has nothing to do with disability. so i assume if there are 20 discounted tickets available on a particular flight and 25 pwds travelling, only 20 might get discounted tickets and the other 5 will have to travel on normal fares , or would these five then be entitled to concessional tickets? if the former is correct then this logic and practise is discriminatory and needs to be addressed. in which case what we need to counter is that irrespective of number of discounted seats in a flight pwds should at all times be given discounted tickets using the logic that if the tickets were not discounted pwds would in any case have got a concessional ticket. also most of us in the list feel that it would not be correct to ask for discounted/ concessional tickets for escorts and the airlines need to provide facilities to offset the same. can i have your feedback by today evening as we are to place our suggestions by tomorrow. thanks rajive- Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hello sir, It should be optional for us that where we want to sit. - Original Message - From: Mohammed Asif Iqbal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi folks, I have to travel frequently for official purposes. I generally go by Jet airways. I also strongly feel that since there are low air fare, we nmay be asking too much for discounted or concessional fare. Quite frankly I like to sit in the back of the air craft but opinion may varry. thanks and regards Asif - Original Message - From: Pranav Lal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi, snip 1. Jet Airways always makes blind passengers sit in the last row which is closest to the toilets. They tell us that they want to keep us nearest to the crew so that in case of any emergencey they may take proper and good care of blind passengers. Our submisstion is that the rear portion of the aircraft is more noisy as compared to the front portion and why should be made to sit closest to the toilets and get continuously disturbed by the visits of the passengers to the toilet? PL] I have travelled by Jet Airways several times and this has not been my experience. snip 3. Airlines should give us concession on all categories of fairs. The airlines have a special category of fair with a very limited number of seats. Actually, we don't get any concession, it is actually a discounted ticket which is almost double the cost of cheapest fair available today in airlines. This means, they issue us tickets in waiting in spite of the availibality of seats in other categories of fair. PL] why should they do that? With the current airfares, I would doubt any concession is required. 5. Escort should also get concessional tickets in air travel. PL] how would you prove that the person travelling with you is an escort and not a business associate or somebody who has just taken advantage of the provision to get a low-cost airfare? Pranav To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hi folks, I have to travel frequently for official purposes. I generally go by Jet airways. I also strongly feel that since there are low air fare, we nmay be asking too much for discounted or concessional fare. Quite frankly I like to sit in the back of the air craft but opinion may varry. thanks and regards Asif - Original Message - From: Pranav Lal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi, snip 1. Jet Airways always makes blind passengers sit in the last row which is closest to the toilets. They tell us that they want to keep us nearest to the crew so that in case of any emergencey they may take proper and good care of blind passengers. Our submisstion is that the rear portion of the aircraft is more noisy as compared to the front portion and why should be made to sit closest to the toilets and get continuously disturbed by the visits of the passengers to the toilet? PL] I have travelled by Jet Airways several times and this has not been my experience. snip 3. Airlines should give us concession on all categories of fairs. The airlines have a special category of fair with a very limited number of seats. Actually, we don't get any concession, it is actually a discounted ticket which is almost double the cost of cheapest fair available today in airlines. This means, they issue us tickets in waiting in spite of the availibality of seats in other categories of fair. PL] why should they do that? With the current airfares, I would doubt any concession is required. 5. Escort should also get concessional tickets in air travel. PL] how would you prove that the person travelling with you is an escort and not a business associate or somebody who has just taken advantage of the provision to get a low-cost airfare? Pranav To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hello all, 1. It is not reasonable to ask the airlines to provide an attendant to stay with the blind person for the duration that the person waits in the lounge. It must be borne in mind that most airlines have a staff crunch, and sparing attendants will not be easy. Besides, the blind person may not be the only disabled person travelling in that aircraft. 2. Asking for concession on the already discounted fare is highly unreasonable. 3. The whole point of airline staff providing us assistance is to eliminate the need for an escort. Let us ask for concessions only where they are absolutely necessary. We may otherwise not be taken seriously at all. Geetha To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hello friends, some points specially the one related to concession in fairs have been misunderstood. What happens is that the airlines have a fixed number of seats marked for concessional fairs and as soon as that quota is exhausted, the concessional tickets are denied or are assigned to the waitlist category. The demand we are planning to put forth is only that we should be given concession on the full ticket in case a seat is vacant at the last minute even if the quota of tickets for the disabled has been exhausted. Please note that we are not demanding concession on the already discounted fairs! Regards Aruni. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geetha Shamanna Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 6:00 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello all, 1. It is not reasonable to ask the airlines to provide an attendant to stay with the blind person for the duration that the person waits in the lounge. It must be borne in mind that most airlines have a staff crunch, and sparing attendants will not be easy. Besides, the blind person may not be the only disabled person travelling in that aircraft. 2. Asking for concession on the already discounted fare is highly unreasonable. 3. The whole point of airline staff providing us assistance is to eliminate the need for an escort. Let us ask for concessions only where they are absolutely necessary. We may otherwise not be taken seriously at all. Geetha To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
In the lounge, there is already an attendant who takes care of all the other passengers. My submission was that if we are seated in the lounge, the attendant could be asked for any assistance. The airlines need not provide a separate attendant. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Geetha Shamanna [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello all, 1. It is not reasonable to ask the airlines to provide an attendant to stay with the blind person for the duration that the person waits in the lounge. It must be borne in mind that most airlines have a staff crunch, and sparing attendants will not be easy. Besides, the blind person may not be the only disabled person travelling in that aircraft. 2. Asking for concession on the already discounted fare is highly unreasonable. 3. The whole point of airline staff providing us assistance is to eliminate the need for an escort. Let us ask for concessions only where they are absolutely necessary. We may otherwise not be taken seriously at all. Geetha To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
[AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dear Friends, Director General, Civil Aviation has prepared some guidelines for blind passengers and persons with disabilities travelling by Air. We are supposed to send our suggestion before they are finally adopted and issued as instructions for airlines. I am reproducing below the draft proposal and also recommendations prepared by one of our members Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. May I request you to send your suggestions as recommendations to DGCA at the earliest so that we may not lose any opportunity to make them realise our needs and requirements during air travel. I must draw your attention to some points that you must consider: 1. Jet Airways always makes blind passengers sit in the last row which is closest to the toilets. They tell us that they want to keep us nearest to the crew so that in case of any emergencey they may take proper and good care of blind passengers. Our submisstion is that the rear portion of the aircraft is more noisy as compared to the front portion and why should be made to sit closest to the toilets and get continuously disturbed by the visits of the passengers to the toilet? 2. Blind passengers myst be provided shuttle lounge facility at the airports with attendant. Normally, airport authorities make us sit with common public and the attendant goes away. He comes to pick us up only when the boarding starts. In the meanwhile, if we need any assistance for going to the toilet or drinking water or tea etc. we have no choice but to wait for him. If we are allowed lounge facility, all of our problems would be taken care of by the lounge attendant. 3. Airlines should give us concession on all categories of fairs. The airlines have a special category of fair with a very limited number of seats. Actually, we don't get any concession, it is actually a discounted ticket which is almost double the cost of cheapest fair available today in airlines. This means, they issue us tickets in waiting in spite of the availibality of seats in other categories of fair. 5. Escort should also get concessional tickets in air travel. So, Here's the draft proposal followed by suggestion and recommendations of Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. DRAFT GOVERNMENT OF INDIA Director General of Civil Aviation Opp. Safdarjung Airport, New Delhi-110003 CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS SECTION 3 - AIRTRANSPORT SERIES 'M' PART II JULY, 2006 EFFECTIVE FORTHWITH Subject: Carriage of physically challenged passengers 1. INTRODUCTION: Due to open sky policy the number of aircraft have increased for scheduled operation. Air transport has also become cheaper and is in the reach of common person. A large number of elderly passengers are traveling fare and wide, aboard commercial flights. Older and less healthy passengers often fly and it is expected that the airlines will look after them, should the need arise. Passengers with medical and physical disability also expect that all necessary facilities will be provided to them in-flight, without discrimination. Besides being a humanitarian issue, the scheduled services airlines cannot absolve themselves from their responsibility from providing facilities to the physically challenged passengers. 2. APPLICABILITY: The requirements of the CAR are applicable to all the scheduled airlines to prevent discrimination against the physically challenged passengers. The airlines may give a detailed procedure for handling such passengers in their Citizen Charter Chapter on their website for the knowledge of the public. This CAR is issued in exercise of the powers conferred by Rule 133A of the Aircraft Rules 1937. 3. PHYSICALLY CHALLENGED PASSENGERS 3.1 DEFINITION This expression includes disabled and invalid passengers. A passenger is considered incapacitated when his physical, mental or medical condition requires individual attention (while enplaning and deplaning, during flight, in an emergency evacuation and during ground handling) which is normally not extended to other passengers. This requirement will become apparent from special request made by the passengers and/or their family or a medical authority, or from obvious abnormal physical or mental conditions observed and reported by airline personnel or industry associated persons (travel agents etc.). There may also be requests from interline partners to provide through transportation to incapacitated passengers for which special arrangements may be needed. 3.2 CODES The following terms are used in all traffic documents namely movement messages, passenger service messages, boarding pass, load sheet, reservations request etc. MEDA (Medical case) Company medical clearance may be required STCR (Stretcher Passenger) WCHR (Wheelchair - R for
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
I don't agree with points 3 and 5. Let us not forget that airline fairs are so low that providing concession on the discounted tickets is asking too much. Not matter what we say, carrying passengers like us is certainly an additional cost for the airlines. In such circumstances, I do not think it is reasonable to ask for concessions on discounted tickets. Our insistence should be on services alone. Similarly, when we ask for services from the airlines, there is no point in asking concession for the escort. There have been instances in my childhood when I was allowed to travel to places with others simply for the reason that the total cost of my ticket and that of my escort turns out to be cheaper than the full ticket. This provision will certainly be misused. I think it is important to define the blindness category in the regulations. 99% of blind passengers do not require a wheel chair and this fact has to be mentioned in the regulations. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr Rakesh Jain Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 1:14 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, Director General, Civil Aviation has prepared some guidelines for blind passengers and persons with disabilities travelling by Air. We are supposed to send our suggestion before they are finally adopted and issued as instructions for airlines. I am reproducing below the draft proposal and also recommendations prepared by one of our members Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. May I request you to send your suggestions as recommendations to DGCA at the earliest so that we may not lose any opportunity to make them realise our needs and requirements during air travel. I must draw your attention to some points that you must consider: 1. Jet Airways always makes blind passengers sit in the last row which is closest to the toilets. They tell us that they want to keep us nearest to the crew so that in case of any emergencey they may take proper and good care of blind passengers. Our submisstion is that the rear portion of the aircraft is more noisy as compared to the front portion and why should be made to sit closest to the toilets and get continuously disturbed by the visits of the passengers to the toilet? 2. Blind passengers myst be provided shuttle lounge facility at the airports with attendant. Normally, airport authorities make us sit with common public and the attendant goes away. He comes to pick us up only when the boarding starts. In the meanwhile, if we need any assistance for going to the toilet or drinking water or tea etc. we have no choice but to wait for him. If we are allowed lounge facility, all of our problems would be taken care of by the lounge attendant. 3. Airlines should give us concession on all categories of fairs. The airlines have a special category of fair with a very limited number of seats. Actually, we don't get any concession, it is actually a discounted ticket which is almost double the cost of cheapest fair available today in airlines. This means, they issue us tickets in waiting in spite of the availibality of seats in other categories of fair. 5. Escort should also get concessional tickets in air travel. So, Here's the draft proposal followed by suggestion and recommendations of Shri Prasanna Kumar Pincha. DRAFT GOVERNMENT OF INDIA Director General of Civil Aviation Opp. Safdarjung Airport, New Delhi-110003 CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS SECTION 3 - AIRTRANSPORT SERIES 'M' PART II JULY, 2006 EFFECTIVE FORTHWITH Subject: Carriage of physically challenged passengers 1. INTRODUCTION: Due to open sky policy the number of aircraft have increased for scheduled operation. Air transport has also become cheaper and is in the reach of common person. A large number of elderly passengers are traveling fare and wide, aboard commercial flights. Older and less healthy passengers often fly and it is expected that the airlines will look after them, should the need arise. Passengers with medical and physical disability also expect that all necessary facilities will be provided to them in-flight, without discrimination. Besides being a humanitarian issue, the scheduled services airlines cannot absolve themselves from their responsibility from providing facilities to the physically challenged passengers. 2. APPLICABILITY: The requirements of the CAR are applicable to all the scheduled airlines to prevent discrimination against the physically challenged passengers. The airlines may give a detailed procedure for handling such passengers in their Citizen Charter Chapter on their website for the knowledge of the public. This CAR is issued in exercise of the powers conferred by Rule 133A of the Aircraft Rules 1937. 3. PHYSICALLY CHALLENGED PASSENGERS 3.1 DEFINITION This expression
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hi, snip 1. Jet Airways always makes blind passengers sit in the last row which is closest to the toilets. They tell us that they want to keep us nearest to the crew so that in case of any emergencey they may take proper and good care of blind passengers. Our submisstion is that the rear portion of the aircraft is more noisy as compared to the front portion and why should be made to sit closest to the toilets and get continuously disturbed by the visits of the passengers to the toilet? PL] I have travelled by Jet Airways several times and this has not been my experience. snip 3. Airlines should give us concession on all categories of fairs. The airlines have a special category of fair with a very limited number of seats. Actually, we don't get any concession, it is actually a discounted ticket which is almost double the cost of cheapest fair available today in airlines. This means, they issue us tickets in waiting in spite of the availibality of seats in other categories of fair. PL] why should they do that? With the current airfares, I would doubt any concession is required. 5. Escort should also get concessional tickets in air travel. PL] how would you prove that the person travelling with you is an escort and not a business associate or somebody who has just taken advantage of the provision to get a low-cost airfare? Pranav To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
