date:20160202

Sure.  Is 60 watts enough?  Look at these:
http://www.alliedelec.com/tracopower-tcl-060-124-dc/70062696/

Don't know about the second question, I think no.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:52 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] DIN Mount 48 volt to 24 volt Converter 

Is there a DIN mount 48 volt to 24 volt converter?  Do PacketFlux
Sitemonitors work on 48 volt?

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Keefe John

This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the 
provider to charge the copyright holder for this.


On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:

Haha!



If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says you
charge per incident.



Then go ahead and charge the customer.



Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as well
try to keep them, but make it costly.



If they don’t pay it, then they are off.



Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee



Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow up
on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as we
add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It seems
like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each one.
We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if they
just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it lowers
our overall usage.





--

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Travis Johnson

If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are 
involved in. None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.


Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products
There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)
I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  
There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super 
groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a 
PDA and a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the most 
mass marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every Apple 
product I can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music platforms 
existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and has 
been doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the 
GUI, etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net 
**

Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688*
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | *sam...@plexicomm.net* 
*

-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and 
the music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying 
Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They 
aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, 
just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy 
consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible foresight in addition to their 
intelligence and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:



http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money.
It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's
all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Yeah, it’s a legitimate concern.  They sway a little, but nothing that affects 
it more than a few Db.  This is a 24’ x 1.9” we order from a pipe company.  
It’s got some rigidity to it, with a .095” wall.  It weighs in at about 1.83 
lbs per 1’.  The key is getting that first 4’ to 5’ attached to something 
solid.  As a note, this or a grid would be at the upper end of what we would 
want to install on it, as far as wind load is concerned.  But with a clip on a 
450, or a yagi on a 900, very little concern with wind load, and it’s a great 
option for a post in the yard, hip roof from the ground up, or a tower install, 
as seen in the attached image.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

I was just asking because once we get over 10-12 feet with a pipe, there seems 
to be quite a bit of bobbing around if there’s significant windload at the top. 
 Not so much a problem side-to-side, but front-to-back affects the dish aiming. 
 Usually at 24 feet, we would be recommending a utility pole or a Rohn 25G.

Also a lot of our area, the wind seems to howl 11 months out of the year 
(except August when you actually wish for a breeze), and we have trouble with 
metal fatigue and bolts vibrating loose.

Microbursts are also a problem, it will lay the corn down like a crop circle, 
and rip the siding off houses.

I know this is partly because we have open cropland where the the wind can blow 
for miles, also some ridges which are very exposed.  You know there’s wind when 
people come to build wind farms by you.  It looks like you have trees, so maybe 
that slows the wind down a bit.


From: Ben Royer 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

The pipe? You’d be surprised, they do pretty good in winds, we install those on 
a TV tower too.  We use a PD46 HD bracket, with 4’ attached to the tower, and 
the remaining 20’ in the air.  We can get 40 to 50 MPH Gusts in storms here, 
and have had very few fail.  The only time I’ve had any fail, it’s usually the 
brackets twist on the tower, and that’s tornado weather, and extremely rare.  
We’ve installed hundreds of these, and maybe had less than a handful need 
fixed.  As far as the radio/antenna, those don’t mind the wind much, I’d say an 
old Hyperlink 24 Dbi Grid is more wind sensitive than that, or at least a close 
comparison.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

What kind of winds can that withstand?

From: Ben Royer 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47 miles 
through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree nearby.  10MB 
account.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Ray Savich 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM
To: mailto:af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Josh is the first of 10 to win.

All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community and 
send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports, Cambium 
Community, and others…

 

Ray

 

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

Maybe something like this (I wonder if they make it themselves or OEM it):
http://www.poweringthenetwork.com/modular-dc-converter/

500 watts is a lot of power.  I would probably just split the loads between two 
Mean Well RSDs, or use a small DIN rail converter for each load, or set up a 
second battery string (I assume you need both +48 and-48?).  If I was running 
that much off a DC-DC converter, I would probably want N+1 redundancy.


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

You can always get a DC inverter, make 120 VAC, then feed a DC power supply.  
Any wattage you need any voltage you need.  Just mix and match.  

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:47 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

Hey Guys 

WE are needing a higher capacity DC-DC converter (500 watts) Redundant if 
possible. 

Meanwell RSD only go up to 300 watts... 

Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

2016-02-02 Thread Darin Steffl

Why not do an 10 foot post so you have 7-8 feet out of the ground for more
stability?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:

> I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we know
> exactly how much of an anchor it has.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
> *From:* Brandon Yuchasz 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>
>
> Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ben Royer
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>
>
>
> Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47
> miles through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree
> nearby.  10MB account.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Ray Savich 
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM
>
> *To:* mailto:af@afmug.com 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>
>
>
> Josh is the first of 10 to win.
>
> All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community
> and send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports,
> Cambium Community, and others…
>
>
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum 
>
>
>



-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Justin Wilson

We run scripts on natted networks which identify known P2P users.  Dumps them 
to an address list.  Makes tracking down such things easier when the time 
comes.  The ones in the know run encryption and connect to encrypted only 
hosts.  This is not totally anonymous, but saves the law firm interns from 
easily finding them.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:24 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
> 
> Just thinking out loud.  It does take a lot of time, as we are using NAT 
> heavily, and I have to track them each down with TCP dump based on their 
> torrent port...I'll probably just keep our current policy of disconnect their 
> service for one year.  They can pay another installation fee at that time, 
> but that will be their last chance, and then we will refuse to connect.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  > wrote:
> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the 
> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/ 
> 
> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request 
> IMHO.
> 
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net 
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
> 
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds > > wrote:
>> 
>> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
>> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John > > wrote:
>>> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
>>> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>>> 
>>> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
 
 That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
 
 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson >
 wrote:
> 
> Haha!
> 
> 
> 
> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
> you
> charge per incident.
> 
> 
> 
> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
> well
> try to keep them, but make it costly.
> 
> 
> 
> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
> 
> 
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  > wrote:
> 
> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
> up
> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
> we
> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
> seems
> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
> one.
> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
> they
> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
> lowers
> our overall usage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

>
> http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp
>
> I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
> world doesn't agree with you, at all.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>
> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and make
> them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well before
> the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on them
> already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the Palm
> Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around without
> Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress... there's
> nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had
> WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out
> around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all
> before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first
> came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to
> full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of Steve
> Jobs is just laughable.
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
> www.plexicomm.net *
> * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | sam...@plexicomm.net
> *
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < 
>> t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Josh Reynolds

It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John  wrote:
> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>
> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Haha!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
>>> you
>>> charge per incident.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
>>> well
>>> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
>>> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
>>> up
>>> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
>>> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
>>> we
>>> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
>>> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
>>> seems
>>> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
>>> one.
>>> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
>>> they
>>> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
>>> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
>>> lowers
>>> our overall usage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as
>>> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I don't believe that is the case. It only appears that way to the 
uninitiated observer.


bp


On 2/2/2016 10:23 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

If you take away their single "webpage", all the other pieces fall.

Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:28 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

If that's what you think that Google is, you have a lot to learn.

I listened to a discussion on the Nightly Business Report last night 
about this very topic. The general consensus was that Facebook is 
what you want for what's hot "now". Google is what you want if you're 
looking beyond the next few years.



bp


On 2/2/2016 9:09 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a 
webpage is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or 
Wells Fargo... it totally boggles my mind.


Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the 
question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Sam Kirsch

Sure; I didn't say his contribution was laughable!  I said that to think 
we wouldn't have tablets today without the likes of Steve Jobs is an 
absolutely insane notion.  I'd also say they pushed the bar and then 
faltered, because even before he stopped being able to contribute to the 
company they were rapidly loosing market share to devices that were 
better and far more diverse and customizable to begin with.  If we lived 
in a Jobs only world, I think that creativity would eventually be 
stifled and diversity marginalized.  So while he kicked things up a 
notch to begin with, I don't think it would have lasted, passing away or 
not.


Plus, his attitude and approach failed MISERABLY twice before, once with 
the way he tried to drive the Lisa team, and again with the way he tried 
to drive the Macintosh team and ultimately got him fired for it.  Third 
time is the charm that makes you a sycophant's god I guess!


-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 1:51:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


I think you are correct Sam.

Steve Jobs did make his contribution though, and he did it by being a 
bigger jerk than all the other bosses.  He would tell his people, "You 
can do this better," and didn't accept anything that wasn't better.  
The result was that when you put the iPhone next to any other phone 
that was available at the time and it was way better than the others.


It all would have happened at other companies in a different time and a 
different way, so yes you're still correct.




On 2/2/2016 12:34 PM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and 
make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed 
well before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been 
working on them already for decades.  These things are all just 
glorified PDA's, the Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves 
any "X wouldn't be around without Y company"  Technology is technology 
and progress is progress... there's nothing groundbreaking here about 
Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was 
definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time 
Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all before the 
iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first came 
out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to 
full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of 
Steve Jobs is just laughable.



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???


Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets 
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to 
fruition without them.  What else do they have?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, 
and the music world. Google created a search engine (actually 
copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the 
time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are 
a webpage, just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / 
crappy consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible foresight in addition to their 
intelligence and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  
wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just 
electrons."

~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Travis Johnson

Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on 
Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six 
months ago. ;)


Travis


On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:



http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp

I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of
the world doesn't agree with you, at all.

Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try
and make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things
existed well before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple
companies had been working on them already for decades.  These
things are all just glorified PDA's, the Palm Pilot I had in 1998
pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around without Y
company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress...
there's nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first
couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm
Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time Blackberry's started to
appear a lot more, this is all before the iPhone it may be
just before or around when the iPod first came out though.  To
think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to full modern
smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of Steve
Jobs is just laughable.
*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
**
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109  | Fax:
1.866.852.4688 *
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713  |
*sam...@plexicomm.net* *
-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


The world's most popular site and you don't think the world
would change?  Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to
fruition without them.  What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally
changed the computing world, the phone world, the retail
world, created apps, and the music world. Google created a
search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product".
They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence
and hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't
create anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position
than Apple with their overpriced yet restricted /
non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the
world's information and communications. When you consider
the value of those, it's not just the most valuable company
in matters of money. The founders had incredible foresight
in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson
> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits
of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is
less than 19 years old is now the most valuable company
in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Just thinking out loud.  It does take a lot of time, as we are using NAT
heavily, and I have to track them each down with TCP dump based on their
torrent port...I'll probably just keep our current policy of disconnect
their service for one year.  They can pay another installation fee at that
time, but that will be their last chance, and then we will refuse to
connect.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the
> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/
>
> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request
> IMHO.
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John  wrote:
>
> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>
> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
>
> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>
> Haha!
>
>
>
> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
> you
> charge per incident.
>
>
>
> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>
>
>
> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
> well
> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>
>
>
> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>
>
>
> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf
> Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
> up
> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
> we
> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
> seems
> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
> one.
> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
> they
> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
> lowers
> our overall usage.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Justin Wilson

You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the CEO, 
operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no issue 
registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a copyright@ 
e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail contact.  That way you 
know a request to copyright@ is most likely someone following protocol.

It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to contact, 
and server due process should it come to that.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
> 
> I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then 
> ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  > wrote:
> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the 
> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/ 
> 
> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request 
> IMHO.
> 
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net 
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
> 
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds > > wrote:
>> 
>> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
>> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John > > wrote:
>>> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
>>> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>>> 
>>> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
 
 That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
 
 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson >
 wrote:
> 
> Haha!
> 
> 
> 
> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
> you
> charge per incident.
> 
> 
> 
> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
> well
> try to keep them, but make it costly.
> 
> 
> 
> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
> 
> 
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  > wrote:
> 
> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
> up
> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
> we
> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
> seems
> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
> one.
> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
> they
> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
> lowers
> our overall usage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

[AFMUG] 24' PIPE Install - WAS - First Force 200 5 GHz! (Hijacked by 24' pipe discussion)

Just figured it’d be fair to start a new thread for any questions on this, I’m 
more than happy to answer them, but also did not want to distract from the 
discussion of how awesome the Force 200 5G is!

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Stupid question.. why not just put the pipe in the concrete and avoid the 4x4 
twisting?


On 2/2/2016 1:06 PM, Ben Royer wrote:

  It does vary on the installation and equipment used.  Sometimes we use a 
taller post if the job calls for it, or we will also anchor the pipe in the 
ground along side the post.  Cost and cosmetics I guess would apply for a 
taller post, but in concrete, those posts are pretty solid.

  Thank you,
  Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  Royell Communications, Inc.
  217-965-3699 www.royell.net

  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:02 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

  Why not do an 10 foot post so you have 7-8 feet out of the ground for more 
stability?

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:

I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we know 
exactly how much of an anchor it has.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Brandon Yuchasz 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?





Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ben Royer
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47 
miles through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree nearby.  
10MB account.



Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net



From: Ray Savich 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM

To: mailto:af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



Josh is the first of 10 to win.

All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community 
and send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports, 
Cambium Community, and others…



Ray



Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum







  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 2/2/16 11:08, Sam Kirsch wrote:

Sure; I didn't say his contribution was laughable!  I said that to think
we wouldn't have tablets today without the likes of Steve Jobs is an
absolutely insane notion.


Jobs did cancel the Newton which had been in development since the late 
80's and commercially available in the 90's after he came back to Apple.


But you can't discount the Newton's early achievements in the PDA field, 
even though such things weren't quite ready for the masses.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon

2016-02-02 Thread Daniel White

13GHz is a very uncommon band in North America.  I doubt any 
manufacturer/distributor stocks 13GHz in North America.

Ceragon will be 8-12 weeks typically.

Feel free to contact me offlist - Crossover is a Ceragon distributor.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 6:48 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon
>
> who has in Stock?
>
> Thx and best regards
>
> Daniel


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Travis Johnson


If you take away their single "webpage", all the other pieces fall.

Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:28 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

If that's what you think that Google is, you have a lot to learn.

I listened to a discussion on the Nightly Business Report last night 
about this very topic. The general consensus was that Facebook is what 
you want for what's hot "now". Google is what you want if you're 
looking beyond the next few years.



bp


On 2/2/2016 9:09 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a 
webpage is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or 
Wells Fargo... it totally boggles my mind.


Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the 
question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

2016-02-02 Thread Adam Moffett


Sounds like 1-7/8" SCH 80 pipe.

On 2/2/2016 1:52 PM, Ben Royer wrote:
Yeah, it’s a legitimate concern.  They sway a little, but nothing that 
affects it more than a few Db.  This is a 24’ x 1.9” we order from a 
pipe company.  It’s got some rigidity to it, with a .095” wall.  It 
weighs in at about 1.83 lbs per 1’.  The key is getting that first 4’ 
to 5’ attached to something solid.  As a note, this or a grid would be 
at the upper end of what we would want to install on it, as far as 
wind load is concerned.  But with a clip on a 450, or a yagi on a 900, 
very little concern with wind load, and it’s a great option for a post 
in the yard, hip roof from the ground up, or a tower install, as seen 
in the attached image.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
*From:* Ken Hohhof 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:43 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
I was just asking because once we get over 10-12 feet with a pipe, 
there seems to be quite a bit of bobbing around if there’s significant 
windload at the top.  Not so much a problem side-to-side, but 
front-to-back affects the dish aiming.  Usually at 24 feet, we would 
be recommending a utility pole or a Rohn 25G.
Also a lot of our area, the wind seems to howl 11 months out of the 
year (except August when you actually wish for a breeze), and we have 
trouble with metal fatigue and bolts vibrating loose.
Microbursts are also a problem, it will lay the corn down like a crop 
circle, and rip the siding off houses.
I know this is partly because we have open cropland where the the wind 
can blow for miles, also some ridges which are very exposed.  You know 
there’s wind when people come to build wind farms by you.  It looks 
like you have trees, so maybe that slows the wind down a bit.

*From:* Ben Royer 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
The pipe? You’d be surprised, they do pretty good in winds, we install 
those on a TV tower too.  We use a PD46 HD bracket, with 4’ attached 
to the tower, and the remaining 20’ in the air. We can get 40 to 50 
MPH Gusts in storms here, and have had very few fail.  The only time 
I’ve had any fail, it’s usually the brackets twist on the tower, and 
that’s tornado weather, and extremely rare.  We’ve installed hundreds 
of these, and maybe had less than a handful need fixed.  As far as the 
radio/antenna, those don’t mind the wind much, I’d say an old 
Hyperlink 24 Dbi Grid is more wind sensitive than that, or at least a 
close comparison.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
*From:* Ken Hohhof 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
What kind of winds can that withstand?
*From:* Ben Royer 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47 
miles through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree 
nearby.  10MB account.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
*From:* Ray Savich 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM
*To:* mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Josh is the first of 10 to win.

All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a 
Community and send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, 
WISPA, DSLReports, Cambium Community, and others…


Ray

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm

tldr but is there a fight i can antagonize here?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on
> Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six months
> ago. ;)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp
>>
>> I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
>> world doesn't agree with you, at all.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>>
>> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and make
>> them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well before
>> the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on them
>> already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the Palm
>> Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around without
>> Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress... there's
>> nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had
>> WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out
>> around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all
>> before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first
>> came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to
>> full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of Steve
>> Jobs is just laughable.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
>> www.plexicomm.net *
>> * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
>> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
>> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> |
>> sam...@plexicomm.net *
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Josh Luthman" < 
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>
>>
>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
>> change?  Really???
>>
>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
>> them.  What else do they have?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>>> Facebook.
>>>
>>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>>
>>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>>> groundbreaking.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>>> electronics.
>>>
>>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < 
>>> t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>

 http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

 "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
 by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
 ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

 Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
 old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

 Travis


>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Sterling Jacobson

Haha!

If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says you 
charge per incident.

Then go ahead and charge the customer.

Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as well 
try to keep them, but make it costly.

If they don’t pay it, then they are off.

Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy 
> wrote:
What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a DMCA 
takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow up on.  If 
we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to pirate that 
$10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as we add it to our 
customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right now we pass on 5 of 
them and then make them find a new provider.  It seems like they would be less 
likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each one.  We really don't want 
these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if they just cancel.  Is anyone 
out there charging customers a fee for these?  I know most of you just ignore 
them, but we like passing them on, as it lowers our overall usage.



--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then
ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the
> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/
>
> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request
> IMHO.
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John  wrote:
>
> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>
> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
>
> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>
> Haha!
>
>
>
> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
> you
> charge per incident.
>
>
>
> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>
>
>
> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
> well
> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>
>
>
> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>
>
>
> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf
> Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
> up
> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
> we
> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
> seems
> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
> one.
> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
> they
> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
> lowers
> our overall usage.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Josh Reynolds

That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> Haha!
>
>
>
> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says you
> charge per incident.
>
>
>
> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>
>
>
> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as well
> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>
>
>
> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>
>
>
> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow up
> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as we
> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It seems
> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each one.
> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if they
> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it lowers
> our overall usage.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

You can always get a DC inverter, make 120 VAC, then feed a DC power supply.  
Any wattage you need any voltage you need.  Just mix and match.  

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:47 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

Hey Guys 

WE are needing a higher capacity DC-DC converter (500 watts) Redundant if 
possible. 

Meanwell RSD only go up to 300 watts... 

Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

It does vary on the installation and equipment used.  Sometimes we use a taller 
post if the job calls for it, or we will also anchor the pipe in the ground 
along side the post.  Cost and cosmetics I guess would apply for a taller post, 
but in concrete, those posts are pretty solid.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Why not do an 10 foot post so you have 7-8 feet out of the ground for more 
stability?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:

  I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we know exactly 
how much of an anchor it has.

  Thank you,
  Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  Royell Communications, Inc.
  217-965-3699 www.royell.net

  From: Brandon Yuchasz 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

  Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?





  Best regards,

  Brandon Yuchasz

  GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ben Royer
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



  Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47 miles 
through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree nearby.  10MB 
account.



  Thank you,
  Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  Royell Communications, Inc.
  217-965-3699 www.royell.net



  From: Ray Savich 

  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM

  To: mailto:af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



  Josh is the first of 10 to win.

  All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community and 
send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports, Cambium 
Community, and others…



  Ray



  Join the Conversation

  Cambium Networks Community Forum







-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] 24' PIPE Install - WAS - First Force 200 5 GHz! (Hijacked by 24' pipe discussion)

Haha, ladder would be interesting!  We do have a bucket truck, but don’t need 
it for this setup.  I’ll try and catch the next time a guy installs one, and 
grab a video of him installing it for the community.  You just loosen the 
brackets, and lower the pipe down, similar to pole vaulting, just minus the 
running and jumping! Once you have the pipe stood back up using the same method 
you used to lower it in reverse, you can have it loose in the brackets, turn 
the pipe left and right to aim, then tighten the brackets down where you want 
to leave it.  Tilt is set prior to lifting the pipe in the air.  For a TV Tower 
install, mount the brackets to the tower, use a prusik to hold the weight of 
the pipe while you slide the pipe up into place, aim it, then tighten your 
brackets down.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24' PIPE Install - WAS - First Force 200 5 GHz! (Hijacked 
by 24' pipe discussion)

How do you mount the radio 24' up?  Replace the radio?  Align it?  It doesn't 
look like you have a bucket truck and I'm hoping your answer isn't a ladder.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:

  Just figured it’d be fair to start a new thread for any questions on this, 
I’m more than happy to answer them, but also did not want to distract from the 
discussion of how awesome the Force 200 5G is!

  Thank you,
  Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  Royell Communications, Inc.
  217-965-3699 www.royell.net

  From: George Skorup 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:09 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

  Stupid question.. why not just put the pipe in the concrete and avoid the 4x4 
twisting?


  On 2/2/2016 1:06 PM, Ben Royer wrote:

It does vary on the installation and equipment used.  Sometimes we use a 
taller post if the job calls for it, or we will also anchor the pipe in the 
ground along side the post.  Cost and cosmetics I guess would apply for a 
taller post, but in concrete, those posts are pretty solid.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Why not do an 10 foot post so you have 7-8 feet out of the ground for more 
stability?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:

  I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we know 
exactly how much of an anchor it has.

  Thank you,
  Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  Royell Communications, Inc.
  217-965-3699 www.royell.net

  From: Brandon Yuchasz 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

  Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?





  Best regards,

  Brandon Yuchasz

  GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ben Royer
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



  Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47 
miles through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree nearby.  
10MB account.



  Thank you,
  Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  Royell Communications, Inc.
  217-965-3699 www.royell.net



  From: Ray Savich 

  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM

  To: mailto:af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



  Josh is the first of 10 to win.

  All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community 
and send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports, 
Cambium Community, and others…



  Ray



  Join the Conversation

  Cambium Networks Community Forum







-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

2016-02-02 Thread Daniel White

Negative Gino.  Just confirmed with Alpha.



Thank you,



Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:  
 Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:12 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?



Daniel, do they offer 48 to 48?



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Daniel White  > wrote:

Alpha Tech Cordex series supports up to 2kW



Using multiple modules you can achieve redundancy.



http://www.alpha.ca/solutions/solutions-alpha-catalog/power-modules/converters



Let me know if I can help with a quote.



Thank you,



Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:  
 Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 9:15 AM
To: Animal Farm  >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?



250 watts only...



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Jaime Solorza  > wrote:

Phoenix Contact Quint series... pricey but reliableand isn't that what 
everyone needs?

On Feb 2, 2016 8:47 AM, "Gino Villarini"  > wrote:

Hey Guys



WE are needing a higher capacity DC-DC converter (500 watts) Redundant if 
possible.



Meanwell RSD only go up to 300 watts...



Any ideas?




 


This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
 

 www.avast.com





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Also thinking out loud, maybe after the first one or maybe the second, tell 
them they are on probation and required to get a static public IP which will 
cost an extra $10/mo or something.  Kind of like an ankle monitoring bracelet.  
That way you can quickly identify them if there are future notices.  Maybe 
after 6 or 12 months no notices, take them off probation.

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Just thinking out loud.  It does take a lot of time, as we are using NAT 
heavily, and I have to track them each down with TCP dump based on their 
torrent port...I'll probably just keep our current policy of disconnect their 
service for one year.  They can pay another installation fee at that time, but 
that will be their last chance, and then we will refuse to connect.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the 
Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-) 
  http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/

  If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request 
IMHO.

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John  wrote:

  This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
  provider to charge the copyright holder for this.

  On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 

wrote:

  Haha!

  If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that 
says
  you
  charge per incident.

  Then go ahead and charge the customer.

  Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might 
as
  well
  try to keep them, but make it costly.

  If they don’t pay it, then they are off.

  Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy 
/sarcasm
  Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

  Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  
wrote:

  What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer 
gets a
  DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and 
follow
  up
  on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth 
it to
  pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so 
long as
  we
  add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  
Right
  now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
  seems
  like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for 
each
  one.
  We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
  they
  just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these? 
 I
  know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
  lowers
  our overall usage.

  --

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team
  as
  part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

I am partial to motor-generators.   (Dynamometer)
They make a nice sound and you can hear when the load changes.  
Make excellent surge suppressors too!

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

I think you could just put three or four supplies into a bank of power diodes 
(N + N configuration). Have enough of them to allow one or two to fail without 
compromising the load.

bp

On 2/2/2016 10:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  You can always get a DC inverter, make 120 VAC, then feed a DC power supply.  
  Any wattage you need any voltage you need.  Just mix and match.  

  From: Gino Villarini 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:47 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

  Hey Guys 

  WE are needing a higher capacity DC-DC converter (500 watts) Redundant if 
possible. 

  Meanwell RSD only go up to 300 watts... 

  Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Adam Moffett


I think you are correct Sam.

Steve Jobs did make his contribution though, and he did it by being a 
bigger jerk than all the other bosses.  He would tell his people, "You 
can do this better," and didn't accept anything that wasn't better.  The 
result was that when you put the iPhone next to any other phone that was 
available at the time and it was way better than the others.


It all would have happened at other companies in a different time and a 
different way, so yes you're still correct.




On 2/2/2016 12:34 PM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and 
make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed 
well before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been 
working on them already for decades.  These things are all just 
glorified PDA's, the Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves 
any "X wouldn't be around without Y company"  Technology is technology 
and progress is progress... there's nothing groundbreaking here about 
Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was 
definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time 
Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all before the 
iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first came 
out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to 
full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of 
Steve Jobs is just laughable.

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net 
**

Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688*
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | *sam...@plexicomm.net* 
*

-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" >

To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???


Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets 
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to 
fruition without them.  What else do they have?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:


At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed
the computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created
apps, and the music world. Google created a search engine
(actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others
at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell"
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and
hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create
anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable /
crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of
money. The founders had incredible foresight in addition to
their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of
data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less
than 19 years old is now the most valuable company in the
world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we know exactly 
how much of an anchor it has.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Brandon Yuchasz 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?

 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ben Royer
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

 

Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47 miles 
through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree nearby.  10MB 
account.

 

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

 

From: Ray Savich 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM

To: mailto:af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

 

Josh is the first of 10 to win.

All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community and 
send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports, Cambium 
Community, and others…

 

Ray

 

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Sam Kirsch

The products are you and me, not the search engine.  And they're already 
produced quite a bit of material on what you and I like, whether you 
like it or not or whether you interact with Google directly or not.  Any 
page that has adsense tracks your browser footprint and builds a 
database on you.  I'm sure in the completely fictional scenario of them 
'loosing' the search engine they'd find some way to still roll adsense 
through partner sites and YouTube into something somewhat viable.  Sure 
it would be a big blow that would take the wind out of their sails.  But 
now we're dealing in a weird realm of what-ifs...  Will Apple survive in 
the long term without Jobs?  If they don't I feel like following your 
logic that then completely discounts all their production lines and 
physical products.  He was their *one thing* that propped everything 
else up, then, if that's the case no?  But maybe I'm just reading it 
wrong?


You seem to think the single Search Engine page is the product, its not. 
 You and I are the product, and at this point we've been well produce, 
packaged, and sold to advertisers, and as we age and our interests and 
hobbies change the profile get updated (and our new interests an retro 
interests can be marketed separately!) and as our Kids get on the 
internet and Google links my Kid's interest to my "Profile" and they 
start sending me Ads for stuff HE wants for Christmas (which they 
already do)... Don't get me wrong, the search engine is a huge part of 
the platform, but the 1 Billion gMail users and the 1.17 billion Google 
Search users and the 1 billion viewers who make 4 billion Youtube video 
views per day are the product.  Advertising is what drives all the "big 
producer" companies that you seem to deem more fit of the title or place 
of world's most valuable company.  So, its sort of all about how you 
look at it.  The company with the widest reach, and the most niche 
information, that can drive Advertising for all the producers to the 
most customers and to the right customers that will actually go out and 
by that product. If Google is the grease of the world's producer's 
wheels then I think they do deserve some significant credit for being 
able to parlay that into being the highest grossing company worldwide.  
That's just my take on it though ;)


Regards,

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 1:22:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are 
involved in. None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.


Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products

There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)

I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  
There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super 
groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a 
PDA and a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the most 
mass marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every Apple 
product I can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music platforms 
existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and has 
been doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the GUI, 
etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and 
the music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying 
Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They 
aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, 
just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy 
consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible

Re: [AFMUG] 24' PIPE Install - WAS - First Force 200 5 GHz! (Hijacked by 24' pipe discussion)

How do you mount the radio 24' up?  Replace the radio?  Align it?  It
doesn't look like you have a bucket truck and I'm hoping your answer isn't
a ladder.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:

> Just figured it’d be fair to start a new thread for any questions on this,
> I’m more than happy to answer them, but also did not want to distract from
> the discussion of how awesome the Force 200 5G is!
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>
> Stupid question.. why not just put the pipe in the concrete and avoid the
> 4x4 twisting?
>
> On 2/2/2016 1:06 PM, Ben Royer wrote:
>
> It does vary on the installation and equipment used.  Sometimes we use a
> taller post if the job calls for it, or we will also anchor the pipe in the
> ground along side the post.  Cost and cosmetics I guess would apply for a
> taller post, but in concrete, those posts are pretty solid.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>
> Why not do an 10 foot post so you have 7-8 feet out of the ground for more
> stability?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:
>
>> I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we know
>> exactly how much of an anchor it has.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>> Royell Communications, Inc.
>> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>>
>> *From:* Brandon Yuchasz 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>>
>>
>> Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>> GogebicRange.net
>>
>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ben Royer
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>>
>>
>>
>> Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47
>> miles through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree
>> nearby.  10MB account.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>> Royell Communications, Inc.
>> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ray Savich 
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM
>>
>> *To:* mailto:af@afmug.com 
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh is the first of 10 to win.
>>
>> All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community
>> and send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports,
>> Cambium Community, and others…
>>
>>
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>> Join the Conversation
>>
>> Cambium Networks Community Forum 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount of
time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new
provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the CEO,
> operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no
> issue registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a
> copyright@ e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail contact.
> That way you know a request to copyright@ is most likely someone
> following protocol.
>
> It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to
> contact, and server due process should it come to that.
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then
> ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
>> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the
>> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
>> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/
>>
>> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request
>> IMHO.
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
>> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
>> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>>
>> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Haha!
>>
>>
>>
>> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
>> you
>> charge per incident.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
>> well
>> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>>
>>
>>
>> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf
>> Of That One Guy /sarcasm
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
>> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
>> up
>> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
>> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
>> we
>> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
>> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
>> seems
>> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
>> one.
>> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
>> they
>> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
>> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
>> lowers
>> our overall usage.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as
>> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

DMCA agent is for 512(c) storage i.e. hosting, we are talking about 512(a) 
transit.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512

I’m pretty sure you are not required to designate an agent with the Copyright 
Office (requires paying a fee) and publish it on your website unless you want 
safe harbor under 512(c).  Whether you could insist that notices of claimed 
infringement for transit customers go to your designated agent, I don’t know, 
that seems a question for a lawyer.  Maybe.

Note that you need to publish the designated agent on your website, also I 
think if you are seeking safe harbor for content you host for customers, you 
need to list every customer domain on your application with the Copyright 
Office, not just your own.


From: Jeremy 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then ignore 
all but the requests that come to me from that agent?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the 
Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-) 
  http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/

  If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request 
IMHO.


  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:


It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John  wrote:

  This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
  provider to charge the copyright holder for this.

  On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 

wrote:


  Haha!



  If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that 
says
  you
  charge per incident.



  Then go ahead and charge the customer.



  Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might 
as
  well
  try to keep them, but make it costly.



  If they don’t pay it, then they are off.



  Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy 
/sarcasm
  Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee



  Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers



  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  
wrote:

  What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer 
gets a
  DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and 
follow
  up
  on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth 
it to
  pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so 
long as
  we
  add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  
Right
  now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
  seems
  like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for 
each
  one.
  We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
  they
  just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these? 
 I
  know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
  lowers
  our overall usage.





  --

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team
  as
  part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

The 450i can't do 6mhz, but they can do 5mhz channels.

If I remember correctly, Cambium did say at one point that they had gone as
far building prototype TVWS equipment, but they gave up on it because they
didn't it would be a viable product.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Can the new 450i in 900 select a 6 MHz channel?  If so, just down convert
> the frequency and use that (obviously there is the nasty database situation
> to deal with but...).
> One can always get an experimental license.
>
> *From:* SmarterBroadband 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:59 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016
>
>
> We have a Runcom kit from last year.  Very poor results in testing.  At
> Wispapalooza, the CEO of Runcom said the issue was with the Base Station
> Antennas they originally sent and he would send me new ones.  Never
> received anything.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016
>
>
>
> So I've received no emails, guess nobody has any recent real world
> deployments or you guys are all in secret squirrel mode. :-)
>
> On Feb 1, 2016 3:20 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
> wrote:
>
> It seems like the regulatory environment around these bands is a little
> shaky.  I always figured that was why.
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2016, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> I've wondered why the major fixed wireless players never touched this.
>
> Wasn't there supposed to be a SAS that would tell your AP what channels it
> could use?  Did that ever get off the ground?
>
>
> On 2/1/2016 4:54 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
>
> If you've recently purchased any tvws equipment or received price quotes
> from a vendor, please contact me off list...
>
> It is looking increasingly like I could describe the current state of
> equipment available as "half baked prototypes". There has been a lot of
> noise and hot air but very little real products that are as mature and
> tangible as the cambium 900MHz new 450-serirs gear.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

No but you can rent them equipment I think.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

One of the problems with experimental licenses is that I don’t believe you are 
allowed to charge end users for service.

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 3:21 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

The 450i can't do 6mhz, but they can do 5mhz channels. 

If I remember correctly, Cambium did say at one point that they had gone as far 
building prototype TVWS equipment, but they gave up on it because they didn't 
it would be a viable product.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Can the new 450i in 900 select a 6 MHz channel?  If so, just down convert the 
frequency and use that (obviously there is the nasty database situation to deal 
with but...).
  One can always get an experimental license.  

  From: SmarterBroadband 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:59 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

  We have a Runcom kit from last year.  Very poor results in testing.  At 
Wispapalooza, the CEO of Runcom said the issue was with the Base Station 
Antennas they originally sent and he would send me new ones.  Never received 
anything.

  Adam

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:53 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

  So I've received no emails, guess nobody has any recent real world 
deployments or you guys are all in secret squirrel mode. :-)

  On Feb 1, 2016 3:20 PM, "Jason McKemie"  
wrote:

  It seems like the regulatory environment around these bands is a little 
shaky.  I always figured that was why.

  On Monday, February 1, 2016, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  I've wondered why the major fixed wireless players never touched this.

  Wasn't there supposed to be a SAS that would tell your AP what channels it 
could use?  Did that ever get off the ground?

  On 2/1/2016 4:54 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

  If you've recently purchased any tvws equipment or received price quotes from 
a vendor, please contact me off list...

  It is looking increasingly like I could describe the current state of 
equipment available as "half baked prototypes". There has been a lot of noise 
and hot air but very little real products that are as mature and tangible as 
the cambium 900MHz new 450-serirs gear.

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Yeah, we expect them to switch.  We are uninstalling the equipment.  I am
just trying to figure out how long we should ban them for.  I really don't
care if they ever come back.  Pirates are a hassle for me, and could
potentially land any of us in front of a judge.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within a
> day. I don't know what kind of person would stick around on a ban no matter
> what the length of time is.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount of
>> time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new
>> provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>>
>>> You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the
>>> CEO, operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no
>>> issue registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a
>>> copyright@ e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail
>>> contact.  That way you know a request to copyright@ is most likely
>>> someone following protocol.
>>>
>>> It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to
>>> contact, and server due process should it come to that.
>>>
>>> Justin Wilson
>>> j...@mtin.net
>>>
>>> ---
>>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>>
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>>
>>> I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then
>>> ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>>>
 The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the
 Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
 http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/

 If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real
 request IMHO.

 Justin Wilson
 j...@mtin.net

 ---
 http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
 xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

 http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

 On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

 It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
 sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)

 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John 
 wrote:

 This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
 provider to charge the copyright holder for this.

 On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

 That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.

 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson <
 sterl...@avative.net>
 wrote:

 Haha!

 If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
 you
 charge per incident.

 Then go ahead and charge the customer.

 Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
 well
 try to keep them, but make it costly.

 If they don’t pay it, then they are off.

 Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.

 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On
 Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
 Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

 Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers

 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

 What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
 DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
 up
 on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it
 to
 pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long
 as
 we
 add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?
 Right
 now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
 seems
 like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
 one.
 We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
 they
 just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
 know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
 lowers
 our overall usage.

 --

 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again.  They
usually quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic.  When they
just keep going and going we have to do something.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a
> movie.  Porn movie.  Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local
> school.  Dad was pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the
> reason.  I told him once he makes nice with the copyright holder we can
> turn him back on.  I think he was worried it would leak into the press or
> the schoolboard would become aware.  That never happened.
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
> Yeah, we expect them to switch.  We are uninstalling the equipment.  I am
> just trying to figure out how long we should ban them for.  I really don't
> care if they ever come back.  Pirates are a hassle for me, and could
> potentially land any of us in front of a judge.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within
>> a day. I don't know what kind of person would stick around on a ban no
>> matter what the length of time is.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>>> For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount
>>> of time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new
>>> provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>>>
 You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the
 CEO, operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no
 issue registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a
 copyright@ e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail
 contact.  That way you know a request to copyright@ is most likely
 someone following protocol.

 It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to
 contact, and server due process should it come to that.

 Justin Wilson
 j...@mtin.net

 ---
 http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
 xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

 http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

 On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

 I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then
 ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?

 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the
> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/
>
> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real
> request IMHO.
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John 
> wrote:
>
> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>
> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
>
> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson <
> sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> Haha!
>
>
>
> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that
> says
> you
> charge per incident.
>
>
>
> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>
>
>
> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
> well
> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>
>
>
> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>
>
>
> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On
> Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>
>
>
> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm

I hear commodore is going to get in the cellphone market soon

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Apple vs Android phones
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> tldr but is there a fight i can antagonize here?
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on
>>> Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six months
>>> ago. ;)
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>>

 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp

 I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
 world doesn't agree with you, at all.

 Travis

 On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

 Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and
 make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well
 before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on
 them already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the
 Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around
 without Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress...
 there's nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple
 PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone
 combo out around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this
 is all before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod
 first came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that
 leap to full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of
 Steve Jobs is just laughable.

 *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
 www.plexicomm.net *
 * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
 *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> |
 sam...@plexicomm.net *

 -- Original Message --
 From: "Josh Luthman" < 
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

 The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
 change?  Really???

 Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
 won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
 them.  What else do they have?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net>
 wrote:

> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
> Facebook.
>
> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>
> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
> groundbreaking.
>
> Travis
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
> electronics.
>
> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < 
> t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>
>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's

Re: [AFMUG] pmp450

Yep... all trees are not equal, but as a general rule, 5ghz doesn't like
them.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Satellite view of "some trees"?  1 mile with a tree or two shouldn't be
> too hateful, but if it's a solid forest in that mile 900 is the better
> choice.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Ryan Mano 
> wrote:
>
>> yes pmp 450 AP with pmp450 sm
>>
>> this will be installed with some trees in front of it but need to give
>> them a lot of speeds this is why I chose this...if it doesn't work ill jest
>> give then a 900 and end all these problems
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Af  on behalf of Bill Prince <
>> part15...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 2, 2016 11:52 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] pmp450
>>
>> First.
>>
>> The AP is a PMP450 AP. Correct?
>>
>> Second.
>>
>> The SM is a PMP450 SM. Correct?
>>
>> Define "trees". I have a rule that we do not even attempt any 5 GHz
>> devices through trees.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/2/2016 8:50 AM, Ryan Mano wrote:
>>
>> am waiting on another sm I really think I have a bad sm
>>
>> am doing all what you guys are saying and nothing
>>
>> can the 450 shoot though some trees of does it need line of site
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: George Skorup  
>> Date: 2016-02-01 8:53 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] pmp450
>>
>> Are you talking about the Cambium 60 degree sector that has the third
>> connector for FSK (in the middle I think)? Or did you just put the FSK AP
>> on the vertical port for testing before swapping to the 450 AP?
>>
>> It will sit at 8X/1X QPSK MIMO-A while scanning to listen for beacons, so
>> that is normal. I think you need to figure out why the SM can't hear the AP
>> at range. Could be bad/damaged SM or AP. Do you have another SM or AP to
>> try? Or RF pigtails between the AP and antenna. Easy way to get some idea
>> of what's going on is to run the spectrum analyzer on the AP. Does it see
>> anything at all?
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 6:40 PM, Ryan Mano wrote:
>>
>> It registers 12 feet in front of the AP at 8x/1x…if I point at it 1 mile
>> down the road it will not link just says scanning
>>
>>
>>
>> I only enable the  freq that the ap is using and unchecked all the
>> rest…this is what I meant by isolating
>>
>> AP eval shows nothing at 1 mile mark but close up it shows
>>
>>
>>
>> So from what you guys are saying the first 8x means what the sm is
>> capable of doing and the second number 1x is actual speed?
>>
>>
>>
>> So if it registers at 1x…12feet in from the of ap then it would make
>> sense that it would not see anything if I try it at a mile
>>
>> Guess I will have to pass traffic through it to see if it works from what
>> you guys are telling me
>>
>>
>>
>> I know for a fact that the sector antenna works because I attached a
>> pmp100 AP to it and that registered without any issues…do you think me
>> plugging a pmp100 into the sector antenna would cause this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *George Skorup
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 1, 2016 5:09 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] pmp450
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, then it's not what I was thinking. If you had software on them older
>> than 13.2 I believe, and you also had an AP where the factory reversed the
>> pigtails internally, your beacons would end up on horizontal instead of
>> vertical and the SM probably wouldn't hear it.
>>
>> You say you're getting 8X/1X but it's also not registering. That does not
>> compute. As other have suggested, try locking down the SM's scan list to
>> the exact frequency and channel bandwidth that the AP is on. Tone alignment
>> helps. If you can get a laptop, tablet, phone, etc. and look at the Tools >
>> AP Eval page on the SM, does anything show up there? That's one of the
>> first things our techs are supposed to do when troubleshooting on-site. If
>> it's obviously not an alignment issue, log in and look at the AP eval.
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 3:46 PM, Ryan Mano wrote:
>>
>> Running 5.7 software ver 14.1.1
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *George Skorup
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 1, 2016 4:42 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] pmp450
>>
>>
>>
>> There still seems to be some misconception on this. 8X/1X means that it's
>> 8X capable / 1X current. It's always going to show 8X capable (or 2X for
>> FSK, 3X for 430). After the / is what you need to pay attention to. Also,
>> the uplink and downlink are independent. On the AP session status page
>> (power tab), that's the downlink rate to that SM. On the SM main page, link
>> status,

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

Can the new 450i in 900 select a 6 MHz channel?  If so, just down convert the 
frequency and use that (obviously there is the nasty database situation to deal 
with but...).
One can always get an experimental license.  

From: SmarterBroadband 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

We have a Runcom kit from last year.  Very poor results in testing.  At 
Wispapalooza, the CEO of Runcom said the issue was with the Base Station 
Antennas they originally sent and he would send me new ones.  Never received 
anything.

Adam

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

So I've received no emails, guess nobody has any recent real world deployments 
or you guys are all in secret squirrel mode. :-)

On Feb 1, 2016 3:20 PM, "Jason McKemie"  
wrote:

It seems like the regulatory environment around these bands is a little shaky.  
I always figured that was why.

On Monday, February 1, 2016, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I've wondered why the major fixed wireless players never touched this.

Wasn't there supposed to be a SAS that would tell your AP what channels it 
could use?  Did that ever get off the ground?

On 2/1/2016 4:54 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

If you've recently purchased any tvws equipment or received price quotes from a 
vendor, please contact me off list...

It is looking increasingly like I could describe the current state of equipment 
available as "half baked prototypes". There has been a lot of noise and hot air 
but very little real products that are as mature and tangible as the cambium 
900MHz new 450-serirs gear.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

You're going to have to do better than that if you want to antagonize a
fight...

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:18 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hear commodore is going to get in the cellphone market soon
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Apple vs Android phones
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> tldr but is there a fight i can antagonize here?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>>
 Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on
 Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six months
 ago. ;)

 Travis


 On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

>
> http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp
>
> I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
> world doesn't agree with you, at all.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>
> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and
> make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well
> before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on
> them already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the
> Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around
> without Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress...
> there's nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple
> PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone
> combo out around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this
> is all before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod
> first came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that
> leap to full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes 
> of
> Steve Jobs is just laughable.
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
> www.plexicomm.net *
> * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> |
> sam...@plexicomm.net *
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Luthman" < 
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
> change?  Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net>
> wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, 
>> it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Interestingly, we seem to get a lot fewer notices since we moved everyone
to their own public addresses. whether that's just because they all get
passed along now, so the offending customers stopped, or because the large
number of torrents on a just a few IPs was attracting more attention, I
don't know.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> We run scripts on natted networks which identify known P2P users.  Dumps
> them to an address list.  Makes tracking down such things easier when the
> time comes.  The ones in the know run encryption and connect to encrypted
> only hosts.  This is not totally anonymous, but saves the law firm interns
> from easily finding them.
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:24 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> Just thinking out loud.  It does take a lot of time, as we are using NAT
> heavily, and I have to track them each down with TCP dump based on their
> torrent port...I'll probably just keep our current policy of disconnect
> their service for one year.  They can pay another installation fee at that
> time, but that will be their last chance, and then we will refuse to
> connect.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
>> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the
>> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
>> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/
>>
>> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request
>> IMHO.
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
>> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
>> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>>
>> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Haha!
>>
>>
>>
>> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
>> you
>> charge per incident.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
>> well
>> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>>
>>
>>
>> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf
>> Of That One Guy /sarcasm
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
>> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
>> up
>> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
>> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
>> we
>> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
>> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
>> seems
>> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
>> one.
>> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
>> they
>> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
>> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
>> lowers
>> our overall usage.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as
>> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

One of the problems with experimental licenses is that I don’t believe you are 
allowed to charge end users for service.

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 3:21 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

The 450i can't do 6mhz, but they can do 5mhz channels. 

If I remember correctly, Cambium did say at one point that they had gone as far 
building prototype TVWS equipment, but they gave up on it because they didn't 
it would be a viable product.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Can the new 450i in 900 select a 6 MHz channel?  If so, just down convert the 
frequency and use that (obviously there is the nasty database situation to deal 
with but...).
  One can always get an experimental license.  

  From: SmarterBroadband 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:59 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

  We have a Runcom kit from last year.  Very poor results in testing.  At 
Wispapalooza, the CEO of Runcom said the issue was with the Base Station 
Antennas they originally sent and he would send me new ones.  Never received 
anything.

  Adam

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:53 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] TVWS equipment in 2016

  So I've received no emails, guess nobody has any recent real world 
deployments or you guys are all in secret squirrel mode. :-)

  On Feb 1, 2016 3:20 PM, "Jason McKemie"  
wrote:

  It seems like the regulatory environment around these bands is a little 
shaky.  I always figured that was why.

  On Monday, February 1, 2016, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  I've wondered why the major fixed wireless players never touched this.

  Wasn't there supposed to be a SAS that would tell your AP what channels it 
could use?  Did that ever get off the ground?

  On 2/1/2016 4:54 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

  If you've recently purchased any tvws equipment or received price quotes from 
a vendor, please contact me off list...

  It is looking increasingly like I could describe the current state of 
equipment available as "half baked prototypes". There has been a lot of noise 
and hot air but very little real products that are as mature and tangible as 
the cambium 900MHz new 450-serirs gear.

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Ryan Ray

Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within a
day. I don't know what kind of person would stick around on a ban no matter
what the length of time is.


On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

> For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount of
> time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new
> provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
>> You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the
>> CEO, operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no
>> issue registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a
>> copyright@ e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail
>> contact.  That way you know a request to copyright@ is most likely
>> someone following protocol.
>>
>> It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to
>> contact, and server due process should it come to that.
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>> I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then
>> ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the
>>> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
>>> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/
>>>
>>> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real
>>> request IMHO.
>>>
>>>
>>> Justin Wilson
>>> j...@mtin.net
>>>
>>> ---
>>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>>
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>>
>>> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
>>> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
>>> provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
>>>
>>> On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson >> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Haha!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
>>> you
>>> charge per incident.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then go ahead and charge the customer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off eventually, might as
>>> well
>>> try to keep them, but make it costly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If they don’t pay it, then they are off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf
>>> Of That One Guy /sarcasm
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
>>> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow
>>> up
>>> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
>>> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
>>> we
>>> add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?  Right
>>> now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
>>> seems
>>> like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for each
>>> one.
>>> We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no sweat if
>>> they
>>> just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee for these?  I
>>> know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them on, as it
>>> lowers
>>> our overall usage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as
>>> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

I had excellent luck in immediate shutdown until they got the copyright holder 
to give me an all clear.  I don’t think I ever lost a customer.  Some of them 
were down for a week or so at times.  

From: Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

We send the notice and call them after to make sure they ack it.  On the third 
strike, we suspend their service until they call in. Letting them know at that 
time if we receive future notices it’ll be a $100 administrative fee per notice 
we receive.  They usually decide to go elsewhere at that point. 

  On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

  Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again.  They usually 
quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic.  When they just keep 
going and going we have to do something.

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a 
movie.  Porn movie.  Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local school.  
Dad was pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the reason.  I told 
him once he makes nice with the copyright holder we can turn him back on.  I 
think he was worried it would leak into the press or the schoolboard would 
become aware.  That never happened.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Yeah, we expect them to switch.  We are uninstalling the equipment.  I am 
just trying to figure out how long we should ban them for.  I really don't care 
if they ever come back.  Pirates are a hassle for me, and could potentially 
land any of us in front of a judge.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

  Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within 
a day. I don't know what kind of person would stick around on a ban no matter 
what the length of time is. 

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount 
of time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new 
provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the 
CEO, operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no 
issue registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a 
copyright@ e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail contact.  That 
way you know a request to copyright@ is most likely someone following protocol. 

  It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to 
contact, and server due process should it come to that.

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and 
then ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  
wrote:

  The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to 
the Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-) 
  http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/

  If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real 
request IMHO.

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds 
 wrote:

It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to 
company
sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John 
 wrote:

  This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't 
allow the
  provider to charge the copyright holder for this.

  On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit 
eventually.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 

wrote:

  Haha!

  If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in 
there that says
  you

Re: [AFMUG] UPS

2016-02-02 Thread Peter Kranz

The Alpha UPS units are my favorites right now.. Not quite 1U, but reasonably 
priced and loaded with features.
http://www.alpha.ca/solutions/solutions-alpha-catalog/standard-systems/outdoor-ups-solutions


Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] UPS

Is there such a thing as a small 1U rack mount UPS that has no internal 
batteries but only external battery terminal?  Would be nice for some of our 
bigger sites with auto start generators.

[AFMUG] LINKPlanner PMP AP Antennas

2016-02-02 Thread Sam Kirsch

I'm trying to set up LINKPlanner for some of our tier 1 staff to use 
instead of Radio Mobile, because RM has proven to be a little too 
advanced for some.  I'm curious if anyone knows the reason that one 
cannot add custom antennas for PMP APs?  It appears you can add them for 
PTP and SMs, but not for APs?  I know its perhaps not the best way to 
implement LINKPlanner, but since I'm just setting it up as a tool to 
evaluate LoS, I'm trying to get our PMP100 gear in here as well 
(masquerading as 450s, because I can't find any other way to do it, 
unless I'm missing some massive 'legacy gear' checkbox), and I have some 
old Cyclone 120's that simply don't comply with the default antennas.  
Is there a way to hack that info into some file or am I missing 
something obvious?



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a movie.  
Porn movie.  Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local school.  Dad was 
pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the reason.  I told him once 
he makes nice with the copyright holder we can turn him back on.  I think he 
was worried it would leak into the press or the schoolboard would become aware. 
 That never happened.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

Yeah, we expect them to switch.  We are uninstalling the equipment.  I am just 
trying to figure out how long we should ban them for.  I really don't care if 
they ever come back.  Pirates are a hassle for me, and could potentially land 
any of us in front of a judge.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

  Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within a 
day. I don't know what kind of person would stick around on a ban no matter 
what the length of time is. 

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount of 
time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new 
provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the 
CEO, operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no 
issue registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a 
copyright@ e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail contact.  That 
way you know a request to copyright@ is most likely someone following protocol. 

  It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to 
contact, and server due process should it come to that.

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then 
ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the 
Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-) 
  http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/

  If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real 
request IMHO.

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John  
wrote:

  This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't 
allow the
  provider to charge the copyright holder for this.

  On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson 

wrote:

  Haha!

  If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in 
there that says
  you
  charge per incident.

  Then go ahead and charge the customer.

  Sounds like if you are just going to kick them off 
eventually, might as
  well
  try to keep them, but make it costly.

  If they don’t pay it, then they are off.

  Nothing legally wrong with it if its in your policy I think.

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One 
Guy /sarcasm
  Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:57 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

  Oh wow, youre seriously looking for a fight with customers

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy 
 wrote:

  What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a 
customer gets a
  DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down 
and follow
  up
  on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really 
worth it to

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

We send the notice and call them after to make sure they ack it.  On the third 
strike, we suspend their service until they call in. Letting them know at that 
time if we receive future notices it’ll be a $100 administrative fee per notice 
we receive.  They usually decide to go elsewhere at that point.

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
> 
> Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again.  They usually 
> quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic.  When they just keep 
> going and going we have to do something.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:
> I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a movie.  
> Porn movie.  Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local school.  Dad 
> was pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the reason.  I told him 
> once he makes nice with the copyright holder we can turn him back on.  I 
> think he was worried it would leak into the press or the schoolboard would 
> become aware.  That never happened.
> 
> From: Jeremy 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:41 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
> 
> Yeah, we expect them to switch.  We are uninstalling the equipment.  I am 
> just trying to figure out how long we should ban them for.  I really don't 
> care if they ever come back.  Pirates are a hassle for me, and could 
> potentially land any of us in front of a judge.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ryan Ray  > wrote:
> Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within a 
> day. I don't know what kind of person would stick around on a ban no matter 
> what the length of time is.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jeremy  > wrote:
> For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount of 
> time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new 
> provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  > wrote:
> You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the CEO, 
> operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have no issue 
> registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a copyright@ 
> e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail contact.  That way you 
> know a request to copyright@ is most likely someone following protocol.
> 
> It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to 
> contact, and server due process should it come to that.
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net 
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
> 
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy > > wrote:
>> 
>> I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and then 
>> ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson > > wrote:
>> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the 
>> Registered Copyright Agent on file? You do have one correct? :-)
>> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/ 
>> 
>> If you have one, and it’s not sent to that agent, it’s not a real request 
>> IMHO.
>> 
>> 
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net 
>> 
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>> 
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
>> 
>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Josh Reynolds >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> It can't charge the copyright holder, but could it charge to company
>>> sending out the notices if they aren't the CRH? :)
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Keefe John >> > wrote:
 This has been discussed before, the DMCA safe harbor doesn't allow the
 provider to charge the copyright holder for this.
 
 On 2/2/2016 12:03 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> 
> That's going to end up in a big mess of a lawsuit eventually.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sterling Jacobson  >
> wrote:
>> 
>> Haha!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If it’s against your AUP, make sure you have a clause in there that says
>> you
>> charge per incident.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Then go ahead and charge

Re: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon

2016-02-02 Thread Eric Kuhnke

Really? Most Canadian electrical grid and gas utilities make extensive use
of 7/8 and 13 GHz PTP. Same bands as broadcast auxiliary in FCC land, the
ones with exclusion circles drawn around all major metro areas.

Whoever supplies BCHydro, Terasen, Ontario, Hydro Quebec must keep stock.
On Feb 2, 2016 10:15 AM, "Daniel White"  wrote:

> 13GHz is a very uncommon band in North America.  I doubt any
> manufacturer/distributor stocks 13GHz in North America.
>
> Ceragon will be 8-12 weeks typically.
>
> Feel free to contact me offlist - Crossover is a Ceragon distributor.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 6:48 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon
> >
> > who has in Stock?
> >
> > Thx and best regards
> >
> > Daniel
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm

we are working toward compliance, right now we are forwarding the notice to
our powercode ticketing email, then reassigning it to the customer in a
customer viewalble ticket. when we implement we will do the contract
redirection to a specific contract pretty much saying if you want service
restored you acknowledge that you recieved the notice and we offer no
advice either way, some links to info on dmca and notification that we will
not discuss the matter with them. It will have an assurance that their info
has not been provided to anyone, but will be if a subpoena or other such
forceful legal requirement is met. blah blah blah, and if it continues we
may further address the matter up to and including termination of service.
We will come up with a formal guideline of how far they have to push to get
terminated.
Our NAT customers i just notate the ticket, NAT unable to identify customer
and close it to show good faith for identification.

FYI IP-Echelon Compliance attaches an xml file, when powercode fetches it,
it only brings in the attachment and strips the email body.

we have one customer who has gotten a bunch lately which will force us to
complete our policy soon.

Mediacom, my home internet has a 3 strikes over the lifetime. No apologies,
no 4th chance, lifetime ban.

The only reason I am getting concerned is that its a matter of time until
they find a way to hammer the streaming devices like the illegal
firesticks. when they get that hammered out I think there will be a bunch
of enforcement action

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> We send the notice and call them after to make sure they ack it.  On the
> third strike, we suspend their service until they call in. Letting them
> know at that time if we receive future notices it’ll be a $100
> administrative fee per notice we receive.  They usually decide to go
> elsewhere at that point.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> Usually we send a couple notices and never hear about it again.  They
> usually quit the offending activity, or encrypt their traffic.  When they
> just keep going and going we have to do something.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I will never forget the first time I shut somebody off for pirating a
>> movie.  Porn movie.  Turns out to be the kid of a principal of a local
>> school.  Dad was pretty hot for being shut down until I explained the
>> reason.  I told him once he makes nice with the copyright holder we can
>> turn him back on.  I think he was worried it would leak into the press or
>> the schoolboard would become aware.  That never happened.
>>
>> *From:* Jeremy 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:41 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee
>>
>> Yeah, we expect them to switch.  We are uninstalling the equipment.  I am
>> just trying to figure out how long we should ban them for.  I really don't
>> care if they ever come back.  Pirates are a hassle for me, and could
>> potentially land any of us in front of a judge.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>
>>> Realistically if you shut me off I would switch to a new provider within
>>> a day. I don't know what kind of person would stick around on a ban no
>>> matter what the length of time is.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>>
 For those of you who actually do some sort of enforcement, what amount
 of time do you ban them for?  I figure even at 90 days they will get a new
 provider.  So I was just going to go with one year.  Is that excessive?

 On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> You designate an “agent” within your company.  I typical register the
> CEO, operations, or someone like that that as the agent.  You would have 
> no
> issue registering yourself as the agent.  I would recommend you create a
> copyright@ e-mail address and use that as the designated e-mail
> contact.  That way you know a request to copyright@ is most likely
> someone following protocol.
>
> It’s like CALEA.  Their just needs to be the proper person on file to
> contact, and server due process should it come to that.
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> I really have no idea about that.  So I need to hire an agent, and
> then ignore all but the requests that come to me from that agent?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Justin Wilson  wrote:
>
>> The biggest thing I use in a determination is did they send it to the

Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

2016-02-02 Thread Jay Weekley


  
  
Two SMs to Two APs I assume?

Wireless Administrator wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
ï¿½
ï¿½
ï¿½

ï¿½
Steve B
The Home Town Network.

Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

2016-02-02 Thread George Skorup

The Force 200 has a gigabit ethernet interface. Single 40MHz channel 
could achieve the same result.

On 2/2/2016 4:52 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Burnt spectrum =P

But ya definitely cool/bragging rights.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Wireless Administrator 
> wrote:

Why not?

150Mbps down….

Redundancy …..

Bragging rights ….

Etc ….

Steve

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 5:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is
good

...why?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Wireless Administrator
> wrote:

cid:image001.jpg@01D0CADC.ABC2F180

Steve B

The Home Town Network.

Re: [AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

2016-02-02 Thread Jason McKemie

That band isn't allocated for broadband in the US AFAIK. Must be an error
by the author.

On Tuesday, February 2, 2016, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> says 3.5GHz>>.is that correct?
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Rory Conaway  > wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.telecompetitor.com/infiniti-broadband-to-bring-broadband-wireless-to-10-markets/
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net
>> *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net *
>>
>>
>>
>> “When you're in a slump, it's almost as if you look out at the field and
>> it's one big glove.” - Vance Law
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

...why?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Wireless Administrator 
wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image001.jpg@01D0CADC.ABC2F180]
>
>
>
> Steve B
>
> The Home Town Network.
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Jason McKemie

Definitely agree here.  The Newton was one of the most innovative devices
that Apple has made, it was just ahead of its time and therefore failed.
IMO the Newton was more innovative than any of the i-devices.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 2/2/16 11:08, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>
>> Sure; I didn't say his contribution was laughable!  I said that to think
>> we wouldn't have tablets today without the likes of Steve Jobs is an
>> absolutely insane notion.
>>
>
> Jobs did cancel the Newton which had been in development since the late
> 80's and commercially available in the 90's after he came back to Apple.
>
> But you can't discount the Newton's early achievements in the PDA field,
> even though such things weren't quite ready for the masses.
>
> ~Seth
>

[AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

 

 

 

cid:image001.jpg@01D0CADC.ABC2F180

 

Steve B

The Home Town Network.

Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

Why not?  

150Mbps down….

Redundancy …..

Bragging rights ….

Etc ….

 

Steve

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 5:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

 

...why?




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Wireless Administrator  wrote:

 

 

 

cid:image001.jpg@01D0CADC.ABC2F180

 

Steve B

The Home Town Network.

Re: [AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

says 3.5GHz>>.is that correct?

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

>
> http://www.telecompetitor.com/infiniti-broadband-to-bring-broadband-wireless-to-10-markets/
> ?
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net *
>
>
>
> “When you're in a slump, it's almost as if you look out at the field and
> it's one big glove.” - Vance Law
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 1000

Use 2.5 or later to enable 2.5ms frames.  Match up the timing and ratios.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 2, 2016 6:09 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

> Hey Everyone,
>
> Does anyone have any experience integrating the latest ePMP 1000 gear,
> more specifically on 2.4Ghz, with their PMP100 2.4Ghz system that they
> still have in place?
>
> The distributor says they will now play nicely.  Anyone have experience?
>
> --
> Philip J. Rankin
> Wireless Telecommunications Services
> PO Box 24
> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>

Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

You got it .

 

Steve

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 6:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

 

Two SMs to Two APs I assume?

Wireless Administrator wrote:

ï¿½

ï¿½

ï¿½

cid:image001.jpg@01D0CADC.ABC2F180

ï¿½

Steve B

The Home Town Network.

[AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

2016-02-02 Thread Rory Conaway

http://www.telecompetitor.com/infiniti-broadband-to-bring-broadband-wireless-to-10-markets/?

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

"When you're in a slump, it's almost as if you look out at the field and it's 
one big glove." - Vance Law

Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

Yes ..

 

Plus a little interference and things keep rolling.

Load code in one radio at a time and Things are still rolling

IP based security system.  No annoying call about losing contact with Panel.

Dogs dont bark because security panel beeps due to loss of communication.

Wife does not complain about dogs barking.

And dont forget bragging rights .

 

Steve B.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 6:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

 

Two SMs to Two APs I assume?

Wireless Administrator wrote:

ï¿½

ï¿½

ï¿½

cid:image001.jpg@01D0CADC.ABC2F180

ï¿½

Steve B

The Home Town Network.

Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good

Burnt spectrum =P

But ya definitely cool/bragging rights.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Wireless Administrator 
wrote:

> Why not?
>
> 150Mbps down….
>
> Redundancy …..
>
> Bragging rights ….
>
> Etc ….
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 5:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Force200 Installed With MT bonding. Life is good
>
>
>
> ...why?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Wireless Administrator 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image001.jpg@01D0CADC.ABC2F180]
>
>
>
> Steve B
>
> The Home Town Network.
>
>
>

[AFMUG] ePMP 1000

2016-02-02 Thread Philip Rankin

Hey Everyone,

Does anyone have any experience integrating the latest ePMP 1000 gear, more
specifically on 2.4Ghz, with their PMP100 2.4Ghz system that they still
have in place?

The distributor says they will now play nicely.  Anyone have experience?

-- 
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

2016-02-02 Thread Sean Heskett

i think they are touting that they have a nation wide NN license for the
3.65-3.7Ghz band (like the rest of us lol).



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> says 3.5GHz>>.is that correct?
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.telecompetitor.com/infiniti-broadband-to-bring-broadband-wireless-to-10-markets/
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>*
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net *
>>
>>
>>
>> “When you're in a slump, it's almost as if you look out at the field and
>> it's one big glove.” - Vance Law
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DMCA Time Management Fee

2016-02-02 Thread Eric Kuhnke

Now if we could just get the automated DMCA "pay up or we sue you"
extortion emailers to realize that Canadian ARIN IP blocks are not subject
to the DMCA.

All that crap goes to /dev/null...
On Feb 2, 2016 9:31 AM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

> What do you thing about charging a fee every time that a customer gets a
> DMCA takedown notice.  These notices take time to track down and follow up
> on.  If we charged $20 every time it would make it not really worth it to
> pirate that $10 movie.  I would think that it should be legal, so long as
> we add it to our customer agreement.  Anyone ever thought about this?
> Right now we pass on 5 of them and then make them find a new provider.  It
> seems like they would be less likely to hit 5 if they had to pay $20 for
> each one.  We really don't want these guys on our network anyway, so no
> sweat if they just cancel.  Is anyone out there charging customers a fee
> for these?  I know most of you just ignore them, but we like passing them
> on, as it lowers our overall usage.
>

Re: [AFMUG] UPS

I also have been very happy with the Alpha equipment.  It may look pricey 
compared to a consumer grade UPS, but for the features and specs, it’s not as 
expensive as I thought it would be.  Even without a huge discount.

After trying several other UPS solutions for AC sites always with some issues, 
the Alpha stuff just goes in and runs.  Worst complaint I have is the 4 digit 
password.  Oh, and the ability to adjust the max battery charging current 
through the web GUI saved my butt one time, very cool.

Don’t always assume you can get the model you want off the shelf from a 
distributor, it may take a few weeks from the factory.

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 5:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UPS

Alpha is based in my home city, they are used extensively by the local telco 
and cable companies who no doubt get huge quantity discounts. 

Having all the connectors on the front panel is a huge plus, they can be 
installed and wired up in wall mount racks or small outdoor cabinets that have 
no rear access.

On Feb 2, 2016 2:01 PM, "Peter Kranz"  wrote:

  The Alpha UPS units are my favorites right now.. Not quite 1U, but reasonably 
priced and loaded with features.
  
http://www.alpha.ca/solutions/solutions-alpha-catalog/standard-systems/outdoor-ups-solutions


  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com


  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:32 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] UPS

  Is there such a thing as a small 1U rack mount UPS that has no internal 
batteries but only external battery terminal?  Would be nice for some of our 
bigger sites with auto start generators.

Re: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon

I have only seen 13GHz used in Bolivia... and 14Ghz here by FBI...
On Feb 2, 2016 6:20 PM, "Daniel White"  wrote:

> None of those customers are expecting 30 day inventory even.  BC Hydro
> doesn’t do a build and need it yesterday.  Some of those accounts are
> certainly direct accounts as well.
>
>
>
> I can count on one hand the number of 13GHz links we sold while I was at
> SAF.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> afmu...@gmail.com
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:51 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon
>
>
>
> Really? Most Canadian electrical grid and gas utilities make extensive use
> of 7/8 and 13 GHz PTP. Same bands as broadcast auxiliary in FCC land, the
> ones with exclusion circles drawn around all major metro areas.
>
> Whoever supplies BCHydro, Terasen, Ontario, Hydro Quebec must keep stock.
>
> On Feb 2, 2016 10:15 AM, "Daniel White"  wrote:
>
> 13GHz is a very uncommon band in North America.  I doubt any
> manufacturer/distributor stocks 13GHz in North America.
>
> Ceragon will be 8-12 weeks typically.
>
> Feel free to contact me offlist - Crossover is a Ceragon distributor.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 6:48 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon
> >
> > who has in Stock?
> >
> > Thx and best regards
> >
> > Daniel
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> 
>  This
> email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
> www.avast.com
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

You can sign up for “insider news and priority access”:
http://infinitibroadband.com/

From: Keefe John 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 6:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

anyone know what 10 markets they're going to?

On 2/2/2016 6:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  I suspect that it's supposed to be 2.5ghz... as far as I know, Huawei doesn't 
make gear for the 3.65ghz band.

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

That can’t possibly be what they mean by acquiring 50 MHz of licensed 
spectrum in all their markets from a private party, can it?

Did they also acquire an elevator pass from a high school senior?

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 6:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

It’s all in the marketing and presentation to the investors.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 5:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Looks like more companies want to be WISPs

i think they are touting that they have a nation wide NN license for the 
3.65-3.7Ghz band (like the rest of us lol).  

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

says 3.5GHz>>.is that correct?

Jaime Solorza

Wireless Systems Architect

915-861-1390

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

http://www.telecompetitor.com/infiniti-broadband-to-bring-broadband-wireless-to-10-markets/?

Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

602-426-0542

r...@triadwireless.net

www.triadwireless.net

“When you're in a slump, it's almost as if you look out at the field and 
it's one big glove.” - Vance Law

Re: [AFMUG] OT Leather Gloves

2016-02-02 Thread Sean Heskett

First off I know very little about metal fabrication.  But, what about
chainmail gloves???

-Sean


On Tuesday, February 2, 2016, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> My production guys that do the tower mounts can go through a pair of
> gloves in a day sometimes.  We are really lucky if we get a week out of a
> pair.  Anyone know of a place where we can get them in bulk for the weld
> shop?  We are paying about $17 a pair.  This is not welding gloves, the
> welders get their own for that.  This is just for moving the steel parts
> around, cutting, grinding, forming, deburring etc etc.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Leather Gloves

2016-02-02 Thread Rick Harnish

Chuck,

I serve on a School Building Board with John Whicker from Thumps Up Glove & 
Safety.  His email address is 
jwhic...@thumbsupglove.com.  The website is 
http://www.thumbsupglove.com/.  The website isn’t great, but I see they have 
metal fabrication gloves and I’m sure he would do something wholesale.

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish
Broadband Consultant & Industry Analyst
260-307-4000 cell
Skype: rick.harnish.
Twitter: @rharnish


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 6:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Leather Gloves

My production guys that do the tower mounts can go through a pair of gloves in 
a day sometimes.  We are really lucky if we get a week out of a pair.  Anyone 
know of a place where we can get them in bulk for the weld shop?  We are paying 
about $17 a pair.  This is not welding gloves, the welders get their own for 
that.  This is just for moving the steel parts around, cutting, grinding, 
forming, deburring etc etc.

Re: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon

2016-02-02 Thread Daniel White

None of those customers are expecting 30 day inventory even.  BC Hydro doesn’t 
do a build and need it yesterday.  Some of those accounts are certainly direct 
accounts as well.

I can count on one hand the number of 13GHz links we sold while I was at SAF.

Thank you,

Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:  
 Twitter

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon

Really? Most Canadian electrical grid and gas utilities make extensive use of 
7/8 and 13 GHz PTP. Same bands as broadcast auxiliary in FCC land, the ones 
with exclusion circles drawn around all major metro areas.

Whoever supplies BCHydro, Terasen, Ontario, Hydro Quebec must keep stock.

On Feb 2, 2016 10:15 AM, "Daniel White"  > wrote:

13GHz is a very uncommon band in North America.  I doubt any 
manufacturer/distributor stocks 13GHz in North America.

Ceragon will be 8-12 weeks typically.

Feel free to contact me offlist - Crossover is a Ceragon distributor.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com 
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
Skype: danieldwhite

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On 
> Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 6:48 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] 13 ghz ODU IP20C Ceragon
>
> who has in Stock?
>
> Thx and best regards
>
> Daniel

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] OT Leather Gloves

When I was a sheet metal worker, we would use a light leather glove (deer
skin?  goat skin?) and they would last us about a month or two.  They were
tight at first, but with practice we picked up small sheet metal screws
with them and everything.  I have tried, ever since, to get back into the
habit of using gloves for EVERYTHING...but to no avail.  I absolutely have
to take off my gloves for nuts and bolts.  Anyway, sheet metal workers are
hard on gloves.  You need cheap leather gloves by the case.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:40 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Harbor freight leather gloves are OK as near disposable items, under $5.
> Have uses them for moving firewood around..
>
> For those prices, I have no idea where the leather comes from for the
> places they are sewn in China. Maybe the same Brazilian beef that goes in
> cans:
>
>
> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fa/0e/0a/fa0e0ac5822abfcdf18d97d1fa7446aa.jpg
> On Feb 2, 2016 3:54 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> My production guys that do the tower mounts can go through a pair of
>> gloves in a day sometimes.  We are really lucky if we get a week out of a
>> pair.  Anyone know of a place where we can get them in bulk for the weld
>> shop?  We are paying about $17 a pair.  This is not welding gloves, the
>> welders get their own for that.  This is just for moving the steel parts
>> around, cutting, grinding, forming, deburring etc etc.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Leather Gloves

2016-02-02 Thread Eric Kuhnke

Harbor freight leather gloves are OK as near disposable items, under $5.
Have uses them for moving firewood around..

For those prices, I have no idea where the leather comes from for the
places they are sewn in China. Maybe the same Brazilian beef that goes in
cans:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fa/0e/0a/fa0e0ac5822abfcdf18d97d1fa7446aa.jpg
On Feb 2, 2016 3:54 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> My production guys that do the tower mounts can go through a pair of
> gloves in a day sometimes.  We are really lucky if we get a week out of a
> pair.  Anyone know of a place where we can get them in bulk for the weld
> shop?  We are paying about $17 a pair.  This is not welding gloves, the
> welders get their own for that.  This is just for moving the steel parts
> around, cutting, grinding, forming, deburring etc etc.
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Creating Alphabet suggests they want to change this.  Or that they are just 
doing random stuff.

They may see activist investors forcing companies to split themselves up so 
every business unit maximizes return to investors or gets culled if it’s not 
profitable.  Xerox is the latest, and Icahn only had 8% ownership.  Investors 
like that are a pain in the butt to management, better to get ahead of the 
problem.  Companies with tons of cash are also susceptible to leveraged 
buyouts, where you essentially buy them with their own cash.  Alphabet may be 
to big a fish for any other fish to swallow, but it’s not unheard of for the 
little fish to eat the big fish, or make its life difficult.

It also looks like they are now serious about Google Fiber being a serious 
enterprise, not just a showcase.  I still won’t be impressed until they stop 
cherry picking and wire someplace no one would, how about Flint Michigan?  But 
perhaps that is just part of becoming profitable, you cherry pick.


From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are involved in. 
None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.

Travis



On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products

  There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)  

  I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  There's 
absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super groundbreaking... Many 
companies had already attempted to combine a PDA and a Cell Phone long before 
the iPhone, they just did it the most mass marketable way first.  And that goes 
for just able every Apple product I can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music 
platforms existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and has been 
doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the GUI, etc) NOTHING 
CHANGES ;)


  -- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
  Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
  Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
  Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



  -- Original Message --
  From: "Travis Johnson" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

  I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple 
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.


  Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.


  On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run 
by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years 
old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?

I think you could just put three or four supplies into a bank of power 
diodes (N + N configuration). Have enough of them to allow one or two to 
fail without compromising the load.


bp


On 2/2/2016 10:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
You can always get a DC inverter, make 120 VAC, then feed a DC power 
supply.

Any wattage you need any voltage you need.  Just mix and match.
*From:* Gino Villarini 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 8:47 AM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] High Capacity DC -DC converter?
Hey Guys
WE are needing a higher capacity DC-DC converter (500 watts) Redundant 
if possible.

Meanwell RSD only go up to 300 watts...
Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Maintenance, with it bracketed to the post, can pull the pipe down as needed.  
We don’t anchor the pipe in the concrete typically, that’s a rare situation, we 
will try to get the bottom in the dirt but not concrete if possible.  But yes, 
if in that event you wanted to, you could remove the post from the install.  
But the post does give you a lot of strength being there.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Stupid question.. why not just put the pipe in the concrete and avoid the 4x4 
twisting?


On 2/2/2016 1:06 PM, Ben Royer wrote:

  It does vary on the installation and equipment used.  Sometimes we use a 
taller post if the job calls for it, or we will also anchor the pipe in the 
ground along side the post.  Cost and cosmetics I guess would apply for a 
taller post, but in concrete, those posts are pretty solid.

  Thank you,
  Ben Royer, Operations Manager
  Royell Communications, Inc.
  217-965-3699 www.royell.net

  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:02 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

  Why not do an 10 foot post so you have 7-8 feet out of the ground for more 
stability?

  On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ben Royer  wrote:

I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we know 
exactly how much of an anchor it has.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Brandon Yuchasz 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?





Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ben Royer
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at 4.47 
miles through some trees, shooting just to the right of that big tree nearby.  
10MB account.



Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net



From: Ray Savich 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM

To: mailto:af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!



Josh is the first of 10 to win.

All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a Community 
and send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF, WISPA, DSLReports, 
Cambium Community, and others…



Ray



Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum







  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] CNUT Not Recognizing PMP100 900MHz P9 v9.5 Firmware

2016-02-02 Thread Christopher Gray

Bingo, "No SNMP Response". SNMP tab had some old info. Thank you!

A follow-up question. In CNUT, the SMs are auto-detected. After stating
"Discovered", when I attempt an update, it states "Unable to communicate
with the Network Element. Error:No SNMP response". If I manually enter the
IP address, updating works fine. What sort of SNMP configuration do I need
to allow updates through the auto-detected connections?

Thank you - Chris

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:29 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> When you try to refresh that AP in CNUT, do you get no SNMP response? Or
> what does it do exactly? Or how about what errors does CNUT spit out? I
> would start by checking the SNMP communities and Accessing Addresses on the
> radio. If you inherited it, it's probably something that simple.
>
> BTW, I've had stuff on 8.1.5 that I've upgraded just fine.
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 8:09 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
>
>> PMP100 gear is relatively new to me (in use on some existing networks
>> I've just starting repairing).
>>
>> I have a P9 AP running v9.5 firmware that I'd like to upgrade to v13.4. I
>> just moved a few other P10 APs up to v13.4 without issue, but this one AP
>> is not recognized by CNUT.
>>
>> Is there a trick to get CNUT to recognize the older systems? Is there
>> another way to upgrade firmware manually?
>>
>> Thank you - Chris
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CNUT Not Recognizing PMP100 900MHz P9 v9.5 Firmware

2016-02-02 Thread George Skorup

The auto discovery list populates when you refresh an AP. It's basically 
the AP LUID table, aka SM session status list. And no, you cannot select 
auto discovered elements and directly update them. What you need to do 
here is select an AP and enable auto-update. That will upload the 
software image to the AP, then the AP will start sending the image down 
to the SMs.


On 2/2/2016 11:28 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:

Bingo, "No SNMP Response". SNMP tab had some old info. Thank you!

A follow-up question. In CNUT, the SMs are auto-detected. After 
stating "Discovered", when I attempt an update, it states "Unable to 
communicate with the Network Element. Error:No SNMP response". If I 
manually enter the IP address, updating works fine. What sort of SNMP 
configuration do I need to allow updates through the auto-detected 
connections?


Thank you - Chris

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:29 PM, George Skorup > wrote:


When you try to refresh that AP in CNUT, do you get no SNMP
response? Or what does it do exactly? Or how about what errors
does CNUT spit out? I would start by checking the SNMP communities
and Accessing Addresses on the radio. If you inherited it, it's
probably something that simple.

BTW, I've had stuff on 8.1.5 that I've upgraded just fine.


On 2/2/2016 8:09 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:

PMP100 gear is relatively new to me (in use on some existing
networks I've just starting repairing).

I have a P9 AP running v9.5 firmware that I'd like to upgrade
to v13.4. I just moved a few other P10 APs up to v13.4 without
issue, but this one AP is not recognized by CNUT.

Is there a trick to get CNUT to recognize the older systems?
Is there another way to upgrade firmware manually?

Thank you - Chris

Re: [AFMUG] DIN Mount 48 volt to 24 volt Converter

2016-02-02 Thread Josh Baird

Yes - TCL-060-124DC is what we typically use.

Yes, SiteMonitors will work up to ~56V.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Matt  wrote:

> Is there a DIN mount 48 volt to 24 volt converter?  Do PacketFlux
> Sitemonitors work on 48 volt?
>

Re: [AFMUG] DIN Mount 48 volt to 24 volt Converter


How much current do you need?

-Original Message- 
From: Matt 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:52 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] DIN Mount 48 volt to 24 volt Converter 


Is there a DIN mount 48 volt to 24 volt converter?  Do PacketFlux
Sitemonitors work on 48 volt?

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

And that giant horde of cash that Apple has is starting to look like a 
giant festering sore that they have no clue what to do with besides 
building a gigantic $5 billion space ship in Cupertino.


OBT, they just bought a couple hundred acres (forget the exact size, but 
IIRC, it is around 160 acres) near the San Jose airport upon which they 
plan to build a facility bigger than the spaceship. Undeveloped property 
in that area is probably well north of $1 million per acre.


bp


On 2/2/2016 10:35 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Creating Alphabet suggests they want to change this.  Or that they are 
just doing random stuff.
They may see activist investors forcing companies to split themselves 
up so every business unit maximizes return to investors or gets culled 
if it’s not profitable.  Xerox is the latest, and Icahn only had 8% 
ownership.  Investors like that are a pain in the butt to management, 
better to get ahead of the problem.  Companies with tons of cash are 
also susceptible to leveraged buyouts, where you essentially buy them 
with their own cash.  Alphabet may be to big a fish for any other fish 
to swallow, but it’s not unheard of for the little fish to eat the big 
fish, or make its life difficult.
It also looks like they are now serious about Google Fiber being a 
serious enterprise, not just a showcase.  I still won’t be impressed 
until they stop cherry picking and wire someplace no one would, how 
about Flint Michigan?  But perhaps that is just part of becoming 
profitable, you cherry pick.

*From:* Travis Johnson 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:22 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are 
involved in. None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.


Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products
There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)
I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  
There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super 
groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a 
PDA and a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the 
most mass marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every 
Apple product I can think of.  MP3 players existed. Music platforms 
existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and 
has been doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the 
GUI, etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net**
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688*
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | *sam...@plexicomm.net* 
*

-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, 
and the music world. Google created a search engine (actually 
copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the 
time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are 
a webpage, just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / 
crappy consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible foresight in addition to their 
intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money.
It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's
all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than
19 years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

2016-02-02 Thread George Skorup

Stupid question.. why not just put the pipe in the concrete and avoid 
the 4x4 twisting?


On 2/2/2016 1:06 PM, Ben Royer wrote:
It does vary on the installation and equipment used. Sometimes we use 
a taller post if the job calls for it, or we will also anchor the pipe 
in the ground along side the post.  Cost and cosmetics I guess would 
apply for a taller post, but in concrete, those posts are pretty solid.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net
*From:* Darin Steffl 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:02 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!
Why not do an 10 foot post so you have 7-8 feet out of the ground for 
more stability?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ben Royer > wrote:


I’m not sure on that particular job, but typically we do, so we
know exactly how much of an anchor it has.
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699  www.royell.net 
*From:* Brandon Yuchasz 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:46 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Did you guys set the 4x4 post that is attached to?

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Ben Royer
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:02 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Here you go Ray! Using one of our famous 24’ Pipe setups.  -68 at
4.47 miles through some trees, shooting just to the right of that
big tree nearby.  10MB account.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699  www.royell.net 

*From:*Ray Savich 

*Sent:*Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:34 AM

*To:*mailto:af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

Josh is the first of 10 to win.

All you need to do is post a photo of your 5 GHz Force 200 to a
Community and send us the link. Eligible Communities include AF,
WISPA, DSLReports, Cambium Community, and others…

Ray

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum




--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] DIN Mount 48 volt to 24 volt Converter

2016-02-02 Thread Matt

100 - 200 watts.  So up too 8 amps.  More then I thought.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> How much current do you need?
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 10:52
> AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] DIN Mount 48 volt to 24 volt Converter
> Is there a DIN mount 48 volt to 24 volt converter?  Do PacketFlux
> Sitemonitors work on 48 volt?

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 1000

2016-02-02 Thread Philip Rankin

Thanks.  That's what the rep said.
On Feb 2, 2016 5:10 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> Use 2.5 or later to enable 2.5ms frames.  Match up the timing and ratios.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 6:09 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:
>
>> Hey Everyone,
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience integrating the latest ePMP 1000 gear,
>> more specifically on 2.4Ghz, with their PMP100 2.4Ghz system that they
>> still have in place?
>>
>> The distributor says they will now play nicely.  Anyone have experience?
>>
>> --
>> Philip J. Rankin
>> Wireless Telecommunications Services
>> PO Box 24
>> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 1000

Frequency separation and such still apply, it can't cheat :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 2, 2016 11:58 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:

> Thanks.  That's what the rep said.
> On Feb 2, 2016 5:10 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> Use 2.5 or later to enable 2.5ms frames.  Match up the timing and ratios.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 2, 2016 6:09 PM, "Philip Rankin"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Everyone,
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any experience integrating the latest ePMP 1000 gear,
>>> more specifically on 2.4Ghz, with their PMP100 2.4Ghz system that they
>>> still have in place?
>>>
>>> The distributor says they will now play nicely.  Anyone have experience?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Philip J. Rankin
>>> Wireless Telecommunications Services
>>> PO Box 24
>>> Pittsburg, KS  66762
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html

Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map results 
are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their building on 
Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and “crowdsourcing”.  
And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.  And advertising $19 
but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.  SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.


From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search the 
interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company that has 
(or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google, Microsoft, 
Apple, etc... or the government.


On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

  I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change if 
Google went away tomorrow. 

  Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the 
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before 
Apple, and they all failed.

  I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She used 
that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work.

  Travis



  On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?  
Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably 
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.  
What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

  At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

  Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

  Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

  Travis


  On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple 
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

  
http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

  "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
  ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

  Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

  Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Josh Reynolds

You just described every large scale data source ever.

Congratulations
On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>
> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.
> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>
> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change
> if Google went away tomorrow.
>
> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
> before Apple, and they all failed.
>
> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
> products... they just work.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[AFMUG] Fastest LTE Network America: Tests reveal nation’s fastest 4G LTE | BGR

http://bgr.com/2016/02/02/fastest-lte-network-america-testss/

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Ask Jeeves and Altavista.  *shudder*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Simon Westlake 
wrote:

> Yeah, I keep thinking people have forgotten what it was like. Go and
> google 'that quentin tarantino movie about slaves' and the first result is
> Django Unchained. Google 'that space movie with george clooney in it' and
> the first result is Gravity. Google 'that programming language that is
> named after a jewel' and the second result is 'The Ruby Programming
> Language'. I think people forget how fastidious you had to be in search
> engines before Google (does anyone remember having to do things like '"this
> phrase" + "this other phrase" - "something" and these words' and still
> getting garbage?)
>
> On 2/2/2016 9:35 AM, Joe Novak wrote:
>
> Have you ever tried to get anything done with the other search engines?
> It's almost like a sad joke. Google raised the bar for what to expect out
> of a search engine.
> On Feb 2, 2016 9:05 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> You just described every large scale data source ever.
>>
>> Congratulations
>> On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>>> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>>>
>>> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
>>> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
>>> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
>>> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
>>> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.
>>> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* George Skorup 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>>
>>> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
>>> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
>>> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
>>> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
>>> change if Google went away tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
>>> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
>>> before Apple, and they all failed.
>>>
>>> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
>>> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
>>> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
>>> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
>>> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
>>> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
>>> products... they just work.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
>>> change?  Really???
>>>
>>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
>>> them.  What else do they have?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
 At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
 computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
 music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
 Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
 "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
 Facebook.

 Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

 Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
 work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
 groundbreaking.

 Travis

 On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

 I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
 with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
 electronics.

 Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
 information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
 not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
 incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

 On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

MILLION times easier.

You take the parabolic part, snap in a plastic front end, mount a back
bracket with 4 screws.

Then you put the hardware on the side of the bracket - this is MUCH better
than the Force 110.  There are two pairs of bolts - one for vertical, one
for horizontal.  Far superior/easier than anything else I've used before.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:39 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> are they quicker to assemble?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> First to post, where's my freebie?!
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Google actually had developed the pre-android android before apple
introduced the iphone. It's likely that Apple saw the skunk-works
project as inspiration for the iphone.

Likewise the apple GUI and mouse was developed at Xerox-PARC before
Apple developed the Mac.

The core of Mac-OSX is the Mach core that Next evolved from BSD Unix.

Apple's key to success is indeed the fashion and mystique that they have
created.

Saddly, they haven't really come up with anything new since Steve jobs
departed. I don't see them really doing anything new yet.

Google is still running a lot of skunk-works type projects, and are
really striving to break new ground.

On 2/2/2016 5:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

You don't remember BlackBerry was out before iPhone?

I used my IBM laptop from college for a few years. Same story plus I
could play Halo CE :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:36 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing
would change if Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't
created the first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many
people tried tablets before Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years
ago. She used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years.
She graduated with two Bachelor's degrees... using that same
laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, etc... and she has never
had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, no software
issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners,
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
products... they just work.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
change? Really???

Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets
probably won't exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to
fruition without them. What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally
changed the computing world, the phone world, the retail
world, created apps, and the music world. Google created a
search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product".
They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence
and hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't
create anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position
than Apple with their overpriced yet restricted /
non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the
world's information and communications. When you consider
the value of those, it's not just the most valuable company
in matters of money. The founders had incredible foresight
in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson
> wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits
of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less
than 19 years old is now the most valuable company in
the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] First Force 200 5 GHz!

2016-02-02 Thread Jay Weekley

We got our first 2.4 Force 200s in recently.  They are really easy to 
put together.  Power Beams are a little easier but not by much and the 
brackets reversible with the Force 200.

Josh Luthman wrote:

MILLION times easier.

You take the parabolic part, snap in a plastic front end, mount a back 
bracket with 4 screws.

Then you put the hardware on the side of the bracket - this is MUCH 
better than the Force 110.  There are two pairs of bolts - one for 
vertical, one for horizontal.  Far superior/easier than anything else 
I've used before.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:39 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:

are they quicker to assemble?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Josh Luthman
>
wrote:

First to post, where's my freebie?!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Seems like some of you gents need to see this video and mellow down...it
will put it all in perspective or I could quote Adam Smith and others
but that so cerebralenjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRrCY5uhWY=em
On Feb 2, 2016 8:50 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> Right now if I go to Bing, for example, and type in "what ISPs are in
> my $zipcode"...
>
> It's not using the location data correctly, for one. The first few
> pages are nothing but spam and clickbait. There isn't a single, actual
> provider one that page.
>
> Using Yahoo I get the same thing, but there's even more ads.
>
> Using google, there are actual real results of providers that actually
> provide service in this area, as well as a handful of fairly
> trustworth review sites.
>
> Tell me, which one is more useful?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> > It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town
> is
> > useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the
> > first several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service
> there?
> >
> > Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and
> > associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for
> cash,
> > they should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they
> do, we
> > should look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to
> find
> > a locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus
> > probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.
> >
> >
> > From: Josh Reynolds
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
> >
> >
> > You just described every large scale data source ever.
> >
> > Congratulations
> >
> > On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
> >>
> >> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
> >>
> >> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
> >> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
> >> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
> >> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look
> local.
> >> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords
> click.
> >> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
> >>
> >>
> >> From: George Skorup
> >> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
> >>
> >> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
> >> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any
> company
> >> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
> >> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
> >>
> >> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
> change
> >> if Google went away tomorrow.
> >>
> >> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
> >> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
> before
> >> Apple, and they all failed.
> >>
> >> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
> >> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated
> with
> >> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper,
> thousands of
> >> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
> >> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS
> reload, no
> >> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of
> Apple's
> >> products... they just work.
> >>
> >> Travis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> >>
> >> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
> change?
> >> Really???
> >>
> >> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> >> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.
> >> What else do they have?
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
> >>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and
> the
> >>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
> >>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
> >>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
> >>> Facebook.
> >>>
> >>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
> >>> work... but they aren't

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day