Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Jaime Solorza]

Sell the sizzle
On Feb 24, 2016 9:47 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> Oh I'll watch Connor. I think he really does train his ass off and he's a
> rare talent. He sells himself like Ali did. Would still like to see him
> lose, but it won't be Diaz. Maybe Frankie, maybe RDA, not Cerrone. Josh
> Thompson would likely beat him, and nobody likes fighting 5th round Lawler.
> Still, he has impressive skills and knows how to sell a fight.
> On Feb 24, 2016 10:40 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> That was a joke...it pained me to watch it...
>> On Feb 24, 2016 9:38 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>>> But then we ended up with McGregor vs Diaz...
>>>
>>> And the freak show that was Dada-5000 vs Kimbo :(
>>> On Feb 24, 2016 10:34 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM
 folks have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense
 that emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks
 just in case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out
 of the box saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC
 first came out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny
 juijitsu guynow they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck
 the politics... make it work. Period
 On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

> Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the
> ham community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a
> risk getting involved without good research first.
>
> But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
> combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
> and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
> situation.
>
> I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed
> packet networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing
> boundaries and advancing the hobby.
> On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad
>> dealing with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical 
>> reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>>
>> FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6
>> interoperability  and they are going to replace all that hardware at a 
>> cost
>> by some estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair 
>> brained
>> schemes to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to
>> succeed. The only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great,
>> just what we need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our
>> cell systems.
>> Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running
>> exercises with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some 
>> are
>> complete jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one
>>> had several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
>>> Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked
>>> a question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of
>>> any testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio
>>> guys.One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
>>> emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many 
>>> places
>>> and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
>>> 5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
>>> dangerous border.Canada and US is 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Josh Reynolds]

Oh I'll watch Connor. I think he really does train his ass off and he's a
rare talent. He sells himself like Ali did. Would still like to see him
lose, but it won't be Diaz. Maybe Frankie, maybe RDA, not Cerrone. Josh
Thompson would likely beat him, and nobody likes fighting 5th round Lawler.
Still, he has impressive skills and knows how to sell a fight.
On Feb 24, 2016 10:40 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> That was a joke...it pained me to watch it...
> On Feb 24, 2016 9:38 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> But then we ended up with McGregor vs Diaz...
>>
>> And the freak show that was Dada-5000 vs Kimbo :(
>> On Feb 24, 2016 10:34 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM
>>> folks have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense
>>> that emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks
>>> just in case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out
>>> of the box saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC
>>> first came out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny
>>> juijitsu guynow they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck
>>> the politics... make it work. Period
>>> On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>>>
 Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the
 ham community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a
 risk getting involved without good research first.

 But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
 combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
 and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
 situation.

 I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet
 networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries
 and advancing the hobby.
 On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad
> dealing with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical 
> reason.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
> FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6
> interoperability  and they are going to replace all that hardware at a 
> cost
> by some estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained
> schemes to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to
> succeed. The only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great,
> just what we need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our
> cell systems.
> Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running
> exercises with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some 
> are
> complete jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one
>> had several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
>> Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a
>> question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of 
>> any
>> testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio 
>> guys.
>>One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
>> emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many places
>> and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
>> 5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
>> dangerous border.Canada and US is April.
>> Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw
>> before.
>> Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some
>> cool things..

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Jaime Solorza]

That was a joke...it pained me to watch it...
On Feb 24, 2016 9:38 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> But then we ended up with McGregor vs Diaz...
>
> And the freak show that was Dada-5000 vs Kimbo :(
> On Feb 24, 2016 10:34 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM
>> folks have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense
>> that emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks
>> just in case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out
>> of the box saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC
>> first came out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny
>> juijitsu guynow they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck
>> the politics... make it work. Period
>> On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>>
>>> Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the
>>> ham community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a
>>> risk getting involved without good research first.
>>>
>>> But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
>>> combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
>>> and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
>>> situation.
>>>
>>> I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet
>>> networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries
>>> and advancing the hobby.
>>> On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>
 I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad
 dealing with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 
 
 Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 
 
 The Brothers WISP 
 


 
 --
 *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

 FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6
 interoperability  and they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost
 by some estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained
 schemes to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to
 succeed. The only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great,
 just what we need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our
 cell systems.
 Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises
 with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete
 jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.

 On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had
> several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
> Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a
> question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any
> testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio guys.
>One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
> emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many places
> and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
> 5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
> dangerous border.Canada and US is April.
> Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw before.
> Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some
> cool things..
> Well late lunch and Tecate beckonschime in later,talk amongst
> yourselves..topic is LMR over IP and IoT
> laters
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Josh Reynolds]

But then we ended up with McGregor vs Diaz...

And the freak show that was Dada-5000 vs Kimbo :(
On Feb 24, 2016 10:34 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM
> folks have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense
> that emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks
> just in case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out
> of the box saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC
> first came out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny
> juijitsu guynow they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck
> the politics... make it work. Period
> On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>
>> Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham
>> community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk
>> getting involved without good research first.
>>
>> But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
>> combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
>> and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
>> situation.
>>
>> I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet
>> networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries
>> and advancing the hobby.
>> On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad
>>> dealing with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>>>
>>> FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6
>>> interoperability  and they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost
>>> by some estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained
>>> schemes to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to
>>> succeed. The only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great,
>>> just what we need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our
>>> cell systems.
>>> Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises
>>> with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete
>>> jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had
 several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
 Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a
 question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any
 testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio guys.
One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
 emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many places
 and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
 5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
 dangerous border.Canada and US is April.
 Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw before.
 Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some
 cool things..
 Well late lunch and Tecate beckonschime in later,talk amongst
 yourselves..topic is LMR over IP and IoT
 laters

 Jaime Solorza
 Wireless Systems Architect
 915-861-1390

>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Jaime Solorza]

Yes as in anything we have good and not so good...my point was that HAM
folks have had systems operating when no one else did and it makes sense
that emergency agencies have knowledge and relationship with local folks
just in case your state of the art system fails.  Look at how thinking out
of the box saved astronauts way back then...or poor analogy...when UFC
first came out...all these high rank black belts got whooped by skinny
juijitsu guynow they have adapted and evolved...same thing to me...fuck
the politics... make it work. Period
On Feb 24, 2016 8:46 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

> Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham
> community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk
> getting involved without good research first.
>
> But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
> combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
> and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
> situation.
>
> I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet
> networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries
> and advancing the hobby.
> On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad
>> dealing with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>>
>> FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6
>> interoperability  and they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost
>> by some estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained
>> schemes to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to
>> succeed. The only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great,
>> just what we need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our
>> cell systems.
>> Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises
>> with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete
>> jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had
>>> several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
>>> Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a
>>> question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any
>>> testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio guys.
>>>One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
>>> emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many places
>>> and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
>>> 5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
>>> dangerous border.Canada and US is April.
>>> Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw before.
>>> Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some
>>> cool things..
>>> Well late lunch and Tecate beckonschime in later,talk amongst
>>> yourselves..topic is LMR over IP and IoT
>>> laters
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Colin Stanners]

Well it's true there's a huge variety of people and experience in the ham
community, it's certain there will be some that suck, and so it's a risk
getting involved without good research first.

But in general, they - or I should say us hams- have a very nice
combination of tower sites, active hardware, spare hardware, RF knowledge
and eagerness for community service so as to respond rapidly in any
situation.

I just hope more hams will evolve from old voice / kilobit-speed packet
networks to new 2.3 / 5.9ghz IP systems so as to keep pushing boundaries
and advancing the hobby.
On Feb 24, 2016 9:00 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing
> with a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show
>
> FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6
> interoperability  and they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost
> by some estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained
> schemes to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to
> succeed. The only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great,
> just what we need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our
> cell systems.
> Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises
> with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete
> jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had
>> several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
>> Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a
>> question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any
>> testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio guys.
>>One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
>> emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many places
>> and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
>> 5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
>> dangerous border.Canada and US is April.
>> Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw before.
>> Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some cool
>> things..
>> Well late lunch and Tecate beckonschime in later,talk amongst
>> yourselves..topic is LMR over IP and IoT
>> laters
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Mike Hammett]

I'm guessing Lewis and one or two others have had some sort of bad dealing with 
a HAM and now hate the all forever for any impractical reason. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 8:33:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show 


FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6 interoperability and 
they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost by some estimates of over 
$10 billion.There have been several hair brained schemes to pay for it but 
nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to succeed. The only viable option 
seems to let the carriers do it. Great, just what we need: a public safety 
system with all the reliability of our cell systems. 
Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises with 
them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete jokes. 
Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix. 


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



well I attended some interesting sessions. The Public safety one had several 
speakers from industry , gov't and academia... 
Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a question 
that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any testing or 
work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio guys. One of the 
members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop emergencies...the HAM 
radio network was the only available in many places and then asked why they 
never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and 5GHz...mu ch more to come about 
First Net and testing to be done on dangerous border.Canada and US is 
April. 
Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw before. 
Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some cool 
things.. 
Well late lunch and Tecate beckonschime in later,talk amongst 
yourselves..topic is LMR over IP and IoT 
laters 





Jaime Solorza 
Wireless Systems Architect 
915-861-1390 

Re: [AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Lewis Bergman]

FirstNet is a joke. Hardly anyone has reached DHS' level 6 interoperability
 and they are going to replace all that hardware at a cost by some
estimates of over $10 billion.There have been several hair brained schemes
to pay for it but nobody has proposed a plan that is likely to succeed. The
only viable option seems to let the carriers do it. Great, just what we
need: a public safety system with all the reliability of our cell systems.
Back on the HAM topic huh? The reason they don't like running exercises
with them is that they are a crap shoot. Some are great, some are complete
jokes. Nobody wants to be graded with the wildcard in the mix.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:34 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had
> several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
> Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a
> question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any
> testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio guys.
>One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
> emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many places
> and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
> 5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
> dangerous border.Canada and US is April.
> Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw before.
> Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some cool
> things..
> Well late lunch and Tecate beckonschime in later,talk amongst
> yourselves..topic is LMR over IP and IoT
> laters
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Jaime Solorza]

Laird had a Booth at show but I didn't stop at it.   Lots of new ones I
didn't recognize on a mast...some Irish Co. Taoglas had nice ones...maybe
look at them ...
On Feb 24, 2016 5:19 PM, "Chuck Hogg"  wrote:

> Well that would be interesting :)
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I
>> could do a dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>>
>> 9dB is what we have now.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> How much gain are you looking for?
>>>
>>> *From:* Chuck Hogg 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find
>>> out they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because
>>> the internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and
>>> replacing them when it happens.
>>>
>>> So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part
>>> with?  Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck Hogg]

Well that would be interesting :)

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I could
> do a dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter.
>
> *From:* Chuck Hogg 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>
> 9dB is what we have now.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> How much gain are you looking for?
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find
>> out they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because
>> the internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and
>> replacing them when it happens.
>>
>> So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?
>> Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>
>

[AFMUG] Tessco Show

[Jaime Solorza]

well I attended some interesting sessions.   The Public safety one had
several speakers from industry , gov't and academia...
Learned allot and will share some important items later but I asked a
question that really caught them off guard.there was no mention of any
testing or work on their disaster scenarios which involved HAM radio guys.
   One of the members acknowledged that during Katrina and Bastrop
emergencies...the HAM radio network was the only available in many places
and then asked why they never mentioned using 4.9 GHz but only 2.4 and
5GHz...mu ch more to come about First Net and testing to be done on
dangerous border.Canada and US is April.
Lots of stuff to share and some new antenna players I never saw before.
Met Sakid Ahmed from Cambium and chatted for an hour ...learned some cool
things..
Well late lunch and Tecate beckonschime in later,talk amongst
yourselves..topic is LMR over IP and IoT
laters
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

[Sterling Jacobson]

License is not in violation, but it’s not where it should be since I SHOULD 
have a license for full 600+ Mbps per radio.

I’m confused on the license.

The FCC license has two transmit channels, one for each side which I just 
reverse for receive.

But this Ceragon has two radios each side and wants channel info for each radio.

Did I mess up the FCC license?
Should they have given me two transmit channels per side?

Or is there some other secret sauce I should be doing here?

I can’t get MSE to show anything but -99, ever, on full sweeps with 3’ dishes.
I am thinking I’ve still got something fundamental mis-configured.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

License issue? Check your license key to see if that option is enabled or if it 
is in "violation"


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
Does anyone have a configuration and aiming guide for the IP20C?

I think I’m screwing this up massively.

One (the top slot/radio) won’t go into TX Mute ON on both sides.

This is really frustrating, why can’t manufacturers agree on how to explain 
crap.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

TX Mute should be OFF if you want the radio to transmit.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
Anyone around today that has configured and aimed these before?

I'm in the web page under Radio Parameters and I'm confused about the TX Mute.

Should that be ON to allow the radios to talk? Or OFF?

And I'm unsure on XPIC, I think I have it so it should work, but I only have a 
pair of frequencies, but two actual radios per side of this link.

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

[Erich Kaiser]

License issue? Check your license key to see if that option is enabled or
if it is in "violation"


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Does anyone have a configuration and aiming guide for the IP20C?
>
>
>
> I think I’m screwing this up massively.
>
>
>
> One (the top slot/radio) won’t go into TX Mute ON on both sides.
>
>
>
> This is really frustrating, why can’t manufacturers agree on how to
> explain crap.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C
>
>
>
> TX Mute should be OFF if you want the radio to transmit.
>
>
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
>
> North Central Tower
>
> er...@northcentraltower.com
>
> Office: 630-621-4804
>
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Anyone around today that has configured and aimed these before?
>
> I'm in the web page under Radio Parameters and I'm confused about the TX
> Mute.
>
> Should that be ON to allow the radios to talk? Or OFF?
>
> And I'm unsure on XPIC, I think I have it so it should work, but I only
> have a pair of frequencies, but two actual radios per side of this link.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Brandon Yuchasz]

We had a local company build us covers for our Laird antennas after the first 
one had the tape fail. They are pretty much made out of a black slippery boat 
canvas type material and slip over the top and then tie off at the bottom. The 
original has been up for close to 6 years now. The rest are newer. If you think 
they would buy you time on the remaining antennas I could get you the contact 
info. They have the design on file and should be able to make you them and send 
them out in the mail.  Obviously still requires a climb to replace but its 
easier then lifting a new antenna into place. Our guy got good at using a 
plastic pipe to support the “sock” and slipping it up and over the top.  

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

 

9dB is what we have now.




Regards,
Chuck

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

How much gain are you looking for?

 

From: Chuck Hogg   

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM

To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 

Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

 

Hello: 

 

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out they 
quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the internals 
rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them when it 
happens.

 

So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  Or am 
I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 

 

Regards,
Chuck

 

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Brandon Yuchasz]

We would be interested in the dual slant omni. Probably only run a 5mhz channel 
on them but they are really nice to have in place as a fall back if another AP 
fails.

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

 

I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I could do a 
dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter. 

 

From: Chuck Hogg   

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

 

9dB is what we have now.

 

Regards,
Chuck

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

How much gain are you looking for?

 

From: Chuck Hogg   

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM

To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 

Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

 

Hello: 

 

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out they 
quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the internals 
rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them when it 
happens.

 

So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  Or am 
I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 

 

Regards,
Chuck

 

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck McCown]

Depends on gain.  6 dB would probably be 5 feet tall.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:00 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

How tall would something like that be?


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I could do 
a dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter. 

  From: Chuck Hogg 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

  9dB is what we have now.

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

How much gain are you looking for?

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 
Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

Hello: 

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out 
they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the 
internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them 
when it happens.

So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  
Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 

Regards,
Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Mathew Howard]

How tall would something like that be?

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I could
> do a dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter.
>
> *From:* Chuck Hogg 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>
> 9dB is what we have now.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> How much gain are you looking for?
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find
>> out they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because
>> the internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and
>> replacing them when it happens.
>>
>> So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?
>> Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck McCown]

I did a nice 6 dB H pol omni a few years ago.  Never released it.  I could do a 
dual slant 900 omni.  It would be probably 8 inches in diameter. 

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

9dB is what we have now.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  How much gain are you looking for?

  From: Chuck Hogg 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
  To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

  Hello: 

  I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out 
they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the 
internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them 
when it happens.

  So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  Or 
am I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 

  Regards,
  Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck Hogg]

It's the internal elements rusting.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> H, I thought they were aluminum, and what went bad was the fiberglass
> tape falling apart due to sun and wind.  Maybe they are steel.  So much for
> the one I've had behind the door for 5 or 6 years saving it for a trip to
> the recycler.  It is used but looks in good shape, not sure I can still
> find the mounting bracket though.
>
> Problem is, I don't think they are worth the shipping cost.  Jeez, I hate
> to even think about boxing it up.  Maybe that's why you specified NIB,
> emphasis on the "in box" part.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:50 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>
>
> They must be cheap, cheap, cheap, if you're willing to burn a truck roll
> on one every few years. We have the Amphenol in the air for 8+ years in
> a coastal environment (read: salt air).
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 2/24/2016 1:36 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find
>> out they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because
>> the internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and
>> replacing them when it happens.
>>
>> So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?
>> Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck Hogg]

9dB is what we have now.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> How much gain are you looking for?
>
> *From:* Chuck Hogg 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>
> Hello:
>
> I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out
> they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the
> internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing
> them when it happens.
>
> So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?
> Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck Hogg]

I have the Amphenol actually too.  It's twice the cost :)

So when I was buying them, I could buy 2 Laird for every 1 Amphenol.

I'm getting away from single polarity anyways, so this is just a bandaid
for now.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> They must be cheap, cheap, cheap, if you're willing to burn a truck roll
> on one every few years. We have the Amphenol in the air for 8+ years in a
> coastal environment (read: salt air).
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/24/2016 1:36 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find
>> out they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because
>> the internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and
>> replacing them when it happens.
>>
>> So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?
>> Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[Mathew Howard]

On the two I saw, one I replaced myself and noticed it while I was on the
customer's roof, but it was after I had taken it off, and it was somewhat
loose, so I wasn't sure if it was originally there or if it had fallen off
and somehow managed to re-stick itself, the other one I didn't see until
another tech brought it back to me, so it was kind of questionable as
well... but in hindsight, I think they did come that way from the factory.

We've had enough rain and various forms of wet crud coming out of the sky
here that it should've killed them all by now...

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Unless they were hung in the winter and have not seen rain yet.  This one
> is stuck really well in the wrong spot so I don’t think it fell off or
> moved.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:41 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?
>
>
>
> It bothers me a lot less if it was an assembly time error, than if they
> fell off. If it was just a few that were made that way, there's a pretty
> good chance they've all filled up with water and died by now (which means
> we only got a couple)... if they're going to randomly be falling off,
> that's a much bigger problem.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:41 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd say it's not irrelevant to the people who have them in the air
>
> On Feb 24, 2016 1:45 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> Kind of irrelevant at this point.  Newer connectorized radios have a big
> fat sticker over them and most of us are going to be buying Force200.
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> any word from cambiumbium if this is an adhesive issue thats more than a
> few off?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> I've seen it on a couple of radios that came back from customers.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker over
> it.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:
>
> Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when it
> was put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went into
> dealing with their lack of quality on the product the only good news is it
> failed before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4 to weak
> with the bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t deploy. I
> didn’t even know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4 force and
> tried to test it.  Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just wondering if I
> was lucky or if the sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on wrong often.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?
>
>
>
> How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p
>
> On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> Too much ventilation.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
> wrote:
>
> What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end
> result
> of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
> morning.
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck Hogg]

The tape fails usually.  We have probably 50 in the air, and have had to
replace 3 this year so far.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> Do they rust out because of the “tape” failing and letting moisture into
> them? Or is it because of your environment or both? I am asking because we
> have quite a few up in the air. I also have at least one on the shelf but
> its not NIB.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative
>
>
>
> Hello:
>
>
>
> I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out
> they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the
> internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing
> them when it happens.
>
>
>
> So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?
> Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?
>
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Unless they were hung in the winter and have not seen rain yet.  This one is 
stuck really well in the wrong spot so I don’t think it fell off or moved.

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 4:41 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

 

It bothers me a lot less if it was an assembly time error, than if they fell 
off. If it was just a few that were made that way, there's a pretty good chance 
they've all filled up with water and died by now (which means we only got a 
couple)... if they're going to randomly be falling off, that's a much bigger 
problem.

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:41 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

I'd say it's not irrelevant to the people who have them in the air

On Feb 24, 2016 1:45 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

Kind of irrelevant at this point.  Newer connectorized radios have a big fat 
sticker over them and most of us are going to be buying Force200.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

any word from cambiumbium if this is an adhesive issue thats more than a few 
off?

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

I've seen it on a couple of radios that came back from customers.

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker over it.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when it was 
put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went into dealing 
with their lack of quality on the product the only good news is it failed 
before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4 to weak with the 
bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t deploy. I didn’t even 
know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4 force and tried to test it.  
Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just wondering if I was lucky or if the 
sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on wrong often.

 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

 

How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p

On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

Too much ventilation.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end result
of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
morning.

Brandon

 





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[Mathew Howard]

It bothers me a lot less if it was an assembly time error, than if they
fell off. If it was just a few that were made that way, there's a pretty
good chance they've all filled up with water and died by now (which means
we only got a couple)... if they're going to randomly be falling off,
that's a much bigger problem.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:41 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd say it's not irrelevant to the people who have them in the air
> On Feb 24, 2016 1:45 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> Kind of irrelevant at this point.  Newer connectorized radios have a big
>> fat sticker over them and most of us are going to be buying Force200.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> any word from cambiumbium if this is an adhesive issue thats more than a
>>> few off?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've seen it on a couple of radios that came back from customers.

 On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker
> over it.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
> wrote:
>
>> Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer
>> when it was put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that
>> went into dealing with their lack of quality on the product the only good
>> news is it failed before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and 
>> found
>> 2.4 to weak with the bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we
>> didn’t deploy. I didn’t even know it has burned until we got our first 
>> new
>> 2.4 force and tried to test it.  Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just
>> wondering if I was lucky or if the sticker / covers on the LEDs get put 
>> on
>> wrong often.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>> GogebicRange.net
>>
>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?
>>
>>
>>
>> How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Too much ventilation.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end
>> result
>> of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
>> morning.
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Ken Hohhof]

H, I thought they were aluminum, and what went bad was the fiberglass 
tape falling apart due to sun and wind.  Maybe they are steel.  So much for 
the one I've had behind the door for 5 or 6 years saving it for a trip to 
the recycler.  It is used but looks in good shape, not sure I can still find 
the mounting bracket though.


Problem is, I don't think they are worth the shipping cost.  Jeez, I hate to 
even think about boxing it up.  Maybe that's why you specified NIB, emphasis 
on the "in box" part.



-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

They must be cheap, cheap, cheap, if you're willing to burn a truck roll
on one every few years. We have the Amphenol in the air for 8+ years in
a coastal environment (read: salt air).

bp


On 2/24/2016 1:36 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

Hello:

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out 
they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the 
internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing 
them when it happens.


So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with? 
Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?


Regards,
Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

[Sean Heskett]

it's the same thing as the cambium PTP820 so you can download all those
docs.

you want tx mute off.  if tx mute is on then the transmitter is muted aka
turned off.

-sean

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Does anyone have a configuration and aiming guide for the IP20C?
>
>
>
> I think I’m screwing this up massively.
>
>
>
> One (the top slot/radio) won’t go into TX Mute ON on both sides.
>
>
>
> This is really frustrating, why can’t manufacturers agree on how to
> explain crap.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C
>
>
>
> TX Mute should be OFF if you want the radio to transmit.
>
>
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
>
> North Central Tower
>
> er...@northcentraltower.com
>
> Office: 630-621-4804
>
> Cell: 630-777-9291
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Anyone around today that has configured and aimed these before?
>
> I'm in the web page under Radio Parameters and I'm confused about the TX
> Mute.
>
> Should that be ON to allow the radios to talk? Or OFF?
>
> And I'm unsure on XPIC, I think I have it so it should work, but I only
> have a pair of frequencies, but two actual radios per side of this link.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Bill Prince]

They must be cheap, cheap, cheap, if you're willing to burn a truck roll 
on one every few years. We have the Amphenol in the air for 8+ years in 
a coastal environment (read: salt air).


bp


On 2/24/2016 1:36 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

Hello:

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find 
out they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced 
because the internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the 
issue and replacing them when it happens.


So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part 
with?  Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?


Regards,
Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I'd say it's not irrelevant to the people who have them in the air
On Feb 24, 2016 1:45 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> Kind of irrelevant at this point.  Newer connectorized radios have a big
> fat sticker over them and most of us are going to be buying Force200.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> any word from cambiumbium if this is an adhesive issue thats more than a
>> few off?
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've seen it on a couple of radios that came back from customers.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker
 over it.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
 wrote:

> Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when
> it was put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went
> into dealing with their lack of quality on the product the only good news
> is it failed before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4
> to weak with the bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t
> deploy. I didn’t even know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4
> force and tried to test it.  Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just
> wondering if I was lucky or if the sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on
> wrong often.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?
>
>
>
> How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p
>
> On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> Too much ventilation.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
> wrote:
>
> What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end
> result
> of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
> morning.
>
> Brandon
>

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Chuck,

Do they rust out because of the “tape” failing and letting moisture into them? 
Or is it because of your environment or both? I am asking because we have quite 
a few up in the air. I also have at least one on the shelf but its not NIB.

 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

 

Hello:

 

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out they 
quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the internals 
rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them when it 
happens.

 

So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  Or am 
I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 




Regards,
Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck McCown]

How much gain are you looking for?

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org 
Subject: [AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

Hello: 

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out they 
quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the internals 
rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing them when it 
happens.

So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?  Or am 
I going to have to switch to Amphenol? 

Regards,
Chuck

[AFMUG] Laird ODH9-9 or Alternative

[Chuck Hogg]

Hello:

I recently just tried to get an ODH9-9 900MHz Horizontal Omni, to find out
they quit making it.  Every few years they have to be replaced because the
internals rust out, but we are used to identifying the issue and replacing
them when it happens.

So, does anyone have any NIB ODH9-9 omnis they are willing to part with?
Or am I going to have to switch to Amphenol?

Regards,
Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

[Sterling Jacobson]

Does anyone have a configuration and aiming guide for the IP20C?

I think I’m screwing this up massively.

One (the top slot/radio) won’t go into TX Mute ON on both sides.

This is really frustrating, why can’t manufacturers agree on how to explain 
crap.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

TX Mute should be OFF if you want the radio to transmit.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
Anyone around today that has configured and aimed these before?

I'm in the web page under Radio Parameters and I'm confused about the TX Mute.

Should that be ON to allow the radios to talk? Or OFF?

And I'm unsure on XPIC, I think I have it so it should work, but I only have a 
pair of frequencies, but two actual radios per side of this link.

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

[Erich Kaiser]

TX Mute should be OFF if you want the radio to transmit.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Anyone around today that has configured and aimed these before?
>
> I'm in the web page under Radio Parameters and I'm confused about the TX
> Mute.
>
> Should that be ON to allow the radios to talk? Or OFF?
>
> And I'm unsure on XPIC, I think I have it so it should work, but I only
> have a pair of frequencies, but two actual radios per side of this link.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

[Eric Kuhnke]

I think TX mute set to On disables the transmitter. It has been a while.
On Feb 24, 2016 1:13 PM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

> Anyone around today that has configured and aimed these before?
>
> I'm in the web page under Radio Parameters and I'm confused about the TX
> Mute.
>
> Should that be ON to allow the radios to talk? Or OFF?
>
> And I'm unsure on XPIC, I think I have it so it should work, but I only
> have a pair of frequencies, but two actual radios per side of this link.
>

[AFMUG] Ceragon IP20C

[Sterling Jacobson]

Anyone around today that has configured and aimed these before?

I'm in the web page under Radio Parameters and I'm confused about the TX Mute.

Should that be ON to allow the radios to talk? Or OFF?

And I'm unsure on XPIC, I think I have it so it should work, but I only have a 
pair of frequencies, but two actual radios per side of this link.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[Brandon Yuchasz]

George, that’s exactly correct. We have the force 110’s in place non GPS. The 
plan was to install second 110 units that were GPS and use those first units as 
backups but they all need radomes.  

 

Matt, yes feel free to contact me about price. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Mangriotis
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

 

The 450d comes in a 4-pack with radios and complete assemblies (including the 
radome).

 

The radome holds the “sub-reflector” and the unit will not perform correctly 
without it. It is not optional.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

 

Is the 450d radome included or optional? I thought it was optional.

We've already began the process of replacing the Force110's with Force200 PTP 
links. Just connectorized radios, not GPS. And now with the Force200's, there's 
no possibility of sync. Would've been nice to leave the 110's, swap to GPS 
radios and added the 450d radome kit. I think that's what Brandon is after.

On 2/24/2016 11:58 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:

This all comes down to packaging and shipping…

 

We might be able to set up and sell just the radome, but it’s big and takes up 
a lot of space in a box.  You will probably not like the price we’d have to 
charge.

 

Have any of them broken?

 

Also, with respect to using them with Force products, I will check with 
engineering on possible gotchas.  I have never considered this.

 

After investigation, would you guys mind if I reach out to you (George and 
Brandon) to discuss potential pricing, quantities and feasibility?

 

Matt

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

 

Yeah, that's dumb. So we can't even order replacements if they break? OK, maybe 
we just won't buy any 450d at all. I hope they are listening.

On 2/24/2016 7:10 AM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Cambium does not have a part number assigned to the radome w/ sub reflector. So 
no distributors can purchase them and sell them to us. I agree its seems silly 
not to sell them but that’s what the sales reps are getting from Cambium and as 
I mentioned then didn’t return my calls or emails asking about it. I am 
generally a fan of Cambiums processes and products but this whole think left a 
bad taste in my mouth. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

 

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the sub-reflector? 
I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed about selling just the 450d 
radome kit. Refusing to sell something they make seems pretty stupid. The 
sub-reflector is just the front of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into 
the front of the radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip 
off the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few.

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated incorrectly, 
so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no worky for me. We're 
doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in 
mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet.

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several years. It 
just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and heavy wet snow, which 
we're about to get here tomorrow damnit!

On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I just cant risk 
another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I tried to drum up enough 
interest in Chucks condom but not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a 
response from Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. 
Although we did confirm they would fit / work.  Kind of pissed me off since I 
was told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110. Now they 
have it but won’t sell it. 

I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan since we 
started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that they were not going 
to give us radomes we backed off the install schedule for the second links.  So 
now we have to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I 
should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. 
That was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them.

 

Best regards

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af 

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[Josh Luthman]

Kind of irrelevant at this point.  Newer connectorized radios have a big
fat sticker over them and most of us are going to be buying Force200.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 2:26 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> any word from cambiumbium if this is an adhesive issue thats more than a
> few off?
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> I've seen it on a couple of radios that came back from customers.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker
>>> over it.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when
 it was put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went
 into dealing with their lack of quality on the product the only good news
 is it failed before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4
 to weak with the bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t
 deploy. I didn’t even know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4
 force and tried to test it.  Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just
 wondering if I was lucky or if the sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on
 wrong often.





 Best regards,

 Brandon Yuchasz

 GogebicRange.net

 www.gogebicrange.net



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
 *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
 *To:* af
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?



 How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p

 On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
 wrote:

 Too much ventilation.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
 wrote:

 What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end
 result
 of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
 morning.

 Brandon

>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

any word from cambiumbium if this is an adhesive issue thats more than a
few off?

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> I've seen it on a couple of radios that came back from customers.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker over
>> it.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when
>>> it was put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went
>>> into dealing with their lack of quality on the product the only good news
>>> is it failed before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4
>>> to weak with the bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t
>>> deploy. I didn’t even know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4
>>> force and tried to test it.  Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just
>>> wondering if I was lucky or if the sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on
>>> wrong often.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>>
>>> GogebicRange.net
>>>
>>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
>>> *To:* af
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p
>>>
>>> On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Too much ventilation.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end
>>> result
>>> of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
>>> morning.
>>>
>>> Brandon
>>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 PMP-450 antenna choices

[Joe Novak]

I have several situations with UBNT as you describe working very well. As
with anything with wireless YMMV.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:45 AM, George Skorup  wrote:

> We get decent near-LOS out of our 3.6 450. NLOS, like 900 NLOS... not a
> chance in hell. I suppose my house would be an exception, although I'd
> still call it near-LOS. I have a very old large maple tree about 100 feet
> away (in the neighbor's yard) directly in the path. Beyond that it is
> clear. My SM is on a reflector at 40 feet. And the sector is at 225 feet.
> One mile away. I get about -57dBm Rx power level. Works a hell of a lot
> better than the UBNT ever did, that's for sure.
>
> On 2/24/2016 8:32 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
> I am primarily using the KPP 120 degree sector and i am not happy with
> performance. I am using the Cambium 90 degree sector in one application and
> its NLOS and works very well. Just wondering if anyone else is having
> similar results to that.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:58 AM, timothy steele 
> wrote:
>
>> If your going for Nlos I would try and stay away from 120. Even Ubnt will
>> tell you they don't like 120
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 3:02 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, looking at the pattern in the spec sheet for the Cambium antenna,
>>> it looks to be about -10db at 120.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, George Skorup 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 All I have used is the Laird OEM antenna as well. The null-fill is
 nice. It is definitely a -6dB 90/-3dB 65. I have found that it rolls off
 sharply beyond 90.

 Cambium claims >32dB F/B ratio. I know Mark @ Amplex has mentioned this
 before, short range SMs (like 1/2 mile or so) seem to get crappy downlink
 SNR. They are apparently hearing the opposite sector on the same frequency
 which points to the F/B ratio. I have seen this as well. I actually put up
 a post on the Cambium community about it last night.

 On 2/23/2016 12:24 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

 Sean,

 Really? I was told the 90 degree cambium sector was actually a 65
 degree sector so you using it at 120 degrees? I would assume there is at
 least a 6db difference between the center of the beamwidth and the outer
 edges at 120 degrees.

 On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Sean Heskett < 
 af...@zirkel.us> wrote:

> I've only used the cambium one...works great.
>
> You can actually use it as a 120* sector if you need to, you just
> loose 3db more than at the 90* point.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2016, Kurt Fankhauser <
> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone used all three of these antenna choices for PMP450/3.65ghz
>> ?
>>
>> - KP 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
>> - Cambium Stock 90 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
>> - Alpha Wireless 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
>>
>> And what was your thoughts on all of them? Did any perform worse or
>> better than the other?
>>
>>
>>


>>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[Matt Mangriotis]

The 450d comes in a 4-pack with radios and complete assemblies (including the 
radome).

The radome holds the “sub-reflector” and the unit will not perform correctly 
without it. It is not optional.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Is the 450d radome included or optional? I thought it was optional.

We've already began the process of replacing the Force110's with Force200 PTP 
links. Just connectorized radios, not GPS. And now with the Force200's, there's 
no possibility of sync. Would've been nice to leave the 110's, swap to GPS 
radios and added the 450d radome kit. I think that's what Brandon is after.
On 2/24/2016 11:58 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
This all comes down to packaging and shipping…

We might be able to set up and sell just the radome, but it’s big and takes up 
a lot of space in a box.  You will probably not like the price we’d have to 
charge.

Have any of them broken?

Also, with respect to using them with Force products, I will check with 
engineering on possible gotchas.  I have never considered this.

After investigation, would you guys mind if I reach out to you (George and 
Brandon) to discuss potential pricing, quantities and feasibility?

Matt

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Yeah, that's dumb. So we can't even order replacements if they break? OK, maybe 
we just won't buy any 450d at all. I hope they are listening.
On 2/24/2016 7:10 AM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
Cambium does not have a part number assigned to the radome w/ sub reflector. So 
no distributors can purchase them and sell them to us. I agree its seems silly 
not to sell them but that’s what the sales reps are getting from Cambium and as 
I mentioned then didn’t return my calls or emails asking about it. I am 
generally a fan of Cambiums processes and products but this whole think left a 
bad taste in my mouth.

Best regards,
Brandon Yuchasz
GogebicRange.net
www.gogebicrange.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the sub-reflector? 
I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed about selling just the 450d 
radome kit. Refusing to sell something they make seems pretty stupid. The 
sub-reflector is just the front of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into 
the front of the radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip 
off the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few.

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated incorrectly, 
so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no worky for me. We're 
doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in 
mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet.

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several years. It 
just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and heavy wet snow, which 
we're about to get here tomorrow damnit!
On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I just cant risk 
another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I tried to drum up enough 
interest in Chucks condom but not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a 
response from Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. 
Although we did confirm they would fit / work.  Kind of pissed me off since I 
was told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110. Now they 
have it but won’t sell it.
I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan since we 
started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that they were not going 
to give us radomes we backed off the install schedule for the second links.  So 
now we have to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I 
should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. 
That was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them.

Best regards
Brandon Yuchasz
GogebicRange.net
www.gogebicrange.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance


Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" 
> wrote:
We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's.

Would be nice if they could 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[George Skorup]

Is the 450d radome included or optional? I thought it was optional.

We've already began the process of replacing the Force110's with 
Force200 PTP links. Just connectorized radios, not GPS. And now with the 
Force200's, there's no possibility of sync. Would've been nice to leave 
the 110's, swap to GPS radios and added the 450d radome kit. I think 
that's what Brandon is after.


On 2/24/2016 11:58 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


This all comes down to packaging and shipping…

We might be able to set up and sell just the radome, but it’s big and 
takes up a lot of space in a box.  You will probably not like the 
price we’d have to charge.


Have any of them broken?

Also, with respect to using them with Force products, I will check 
with engineering on possible gotchas.  I have never considered this.


After investigation, would you guys mind if I reach out to you (George 
and Brandon) to discuss potential pricing, quantities and feasibility?


Matt

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:52 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Yeah, that's dumb. So we can't even order replacements if they break? 
OK, maybe we just won't buy any 450d at all. I hope they are listening.


On 2/24/2016 7:10 AM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Cambium does not have a part number assigned to the radome w/ sub
reflector. So no distributors can purchase them and sell them to
us. I agree its seems silly not to sell them but that’s what the
sales reps are getting from Cambium and as I mentioned then didn’t
return my calls or emails asking about it. I am generally a fan of
Cambiums processes and products but this whole think left a bad
taste in my mouth.

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:43 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the
sub-reflector? I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed
about selling just the 450d radome kit. Refusing to sell something
they make seems pretty stupid. The sub-reflector is just the front
of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into the front of the
radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip off
the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few.

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated
incorrectly, so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which
means no worky for me. We're doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're
not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in mass. So yeah, I'm just
not going there yet.

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several
years. It just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and
heavy wet snow, which we're about to get here tomorrow damnit!

On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us.
I just cant risk another drop due to ice / snow packing in a
dish. I tried to drum up enough interest in Chucks condom but
not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a response from
Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming
available. Although we did confirm they would fit / work.
 Kind of pissed me off since I was told a year ago at animal
farm they would have one for the 110. Now they have it but
won’t sell it.

I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the
plan since we started putting up the 110’s. When it became
obvious that they were not going to give us radomes we backed
off the install schedule for the second links.  So now we have
to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up
GPS. I should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp
and radomes to start. That was the plan before I was told the
force 110 would have them.

Best regards

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom
radome?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:

We've been putting radomes on ALL 

Re: [AFMUG] Selling Redudant or Backup (Failover) connections

[Paul Stewart]

Definitely agree on the redundancy portion . for costs, with exception of
LTE, we would look primarily to bond the connections and utilize the 2 or 3
connections at same time. The Multapplied solution does this very well with
different sizes of connections involved, and the failover in event of an
outage is pretty seamless.  I tested it personally with a Skype for Business
call nailed up on a lab unit and randomly knocked down connections and never
dropped or was even noticeable.. 

 

The pricing part, not my area, but I can't see discounting the connections
with our approach.  The DSL or the cable modem still have noticeable costs
to deliver + the cost of CPE, bonder hardware, aggregation servers etc.  The
customer gets more speed and pretty solid redundancy out of the package

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 9:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Selling Redudant or Backup (Failover) connections

 

If these are $70 a month accounts for internet, then backup could be half
that at $30 a month, especially if it's managed.

 

If these are $500 accounts, then backup might be $100 a month.

 

In the real world, you pay for two circuits.

 

So you are doing them a favor by cutting the dual circuit costs
significantly, AND providing the seamless device/failover/bonding.

 

This would be true provider redundancy, where there are two complete
separate paths.

 

If they aren't completely separate, then maybe less, because if your stuff
goes down in a major way, they are still completely down.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Selling Redudant or Backup (Failover) connections

 

Yeah I should qualify what we are doing . the main product will be DSL + LTE
backup . the DSL is ours and LTE is via a bulk arrangement with another
carrier .. or DSL + cable modem (both which we already provide) .. many
different combinations including fixed wireless + LTE backup etc

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Selling Redudant or Backup (Failover) connections

 

I've done it a few times, either I'm primary and have someone elses wireless
as backup, or our fiber is backup.

 

Small accounts we use ASUS routers with dual WAN.

 

Seems to work well, and just goes straight to their wireless router, no
extra equipment.

 

Otherwise we use another dual WAN router.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 2:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Selling Redudant or Backup (Failover) connections

 

We are close to launching a product for this kind of scenario . it's
actually "bonded" Internet to provide more redundancy to business customers
- based on the Multapplied solution . 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 3:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] Selling Redudant or Backup (Failover) connections

 

Does anyone here market a specific "backup connection" to small businesses
(non-BGP)?  Here, Comcast has a strong foothold on business connections, but
they go down occasionally (like anyone else would), so there is an
opportunity there.  With Cloud based solutions, VoIP solutions, redundancy
for a business would make sense.  

 

So the questions would be, what do you charge relative to your normal rate
for a backup (failover) connection only?  

 

Paul

 

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband 

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com  

pa...@pdmnet.net  

 

Re: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck

[Jason McKemie]

I have a bucket, but got it mainly for fiber work, not wireless. I've used
it on a couple wireless installs that either would have been very difficult
or impossible without. It's too big and heavy to maneuver or would leave
ruts in the yard for the most part though.

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> What I noticed is once you do an install with a bucket, any future service
> or removal then requires a bucket.  So once you go down this road, there's
> almost no turning back.  For that reason, even when there's access to a
> bucket, I'd use the ladder whenever possible.
>
> IMO it's also slower to set up and maneuver the bucket than to set up a
> ladder and climb it.
>
> On 2/24/2016 9:52 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
> Have been running bucket trucks since i started in 2004. Started off with
> a used $6500 F-450 truck that was bought at an auction, truck got me by but
> was a mechanical nightmare and a safety concern. In 2008 I bought a used 8
> year old truck on an F550 chassis with a 42 foot Articlated/Telescoptic
> Versalift boom. Paid $35,000 for this truck and had $600/month payments.
> This truck had a 50 foot working height if you were all the way extended. I
> didn't know at the time if i could justify the cost but after I had the
> truck 6 months it generated enough new installs that I wouldn't have been
> able to do without the truck that it was now making its own payments.BEST
> DECISION I EVER MADE.
>
> Now not only was I able to do more installs but i noticed that the quality
> of my installs was improved, antenna mounting locations were higher and
> this was resulting in better SNR's on my installed clients. That is a huge
> side benefit that often gets overlooked. In 2014 I ordered a new F550 with
> the same configuration as the previous truck but with an extended cab. I
> had to special order everything, ordered the chassis through a ford dealer
> and had my local versalift dealer upfit the truck. Whole process was 8
> months. Longest time was the wait for the Versalift dealer to get my boom
> in, apparently they are backlogged. The truck chassis cost $42,000 and the
> boom/body cost $60,000.
>
> Looking back I would not recommend buying the brand new truck unless you
> absoletely need a write off. If i wouldn't have had significant cash to put
> down on the new truck i would have been looking at over $2,500/month
> payments. Also if i wasn't the one operating the truck daily and i had an
> employee i wouldn't have done it either, employees break stuff through
> careless actions and a truck that expensive i didn't want someone to tear
> up.
>
> The one side benefit to buying the new truck is the maintenance costs have
> been zero. I had an average of $500-$750/month maintenance costs on the
> used 2008 truck, everything from the boom having blown hydraulic hoses to
> transmission replacements and diesel engine problems.
>
> Let me know if you have any other questions!
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Nate Burke  > wrote:
>
>> How often do you need it?  We have a local rental shop that rents that
>> exact unit for $300/day.  Does the cost of the unit outweigh just renting
>> it when you need it.  I would definitely make some pads for the outrigger
>> to go on, they are pretty small.  How skilled are your guys at backing up
>> trailers?  That's the hardest thing with this one.
>>
>> On 2/22/2016 4:29 PM, Tushar Patel wrote:
>>
>> We are considering buying trailer Mounted booms or bucket truck.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some roofs are just too hard to get up and we have lot of push up poles
>> so to service them it would be lot easier with bucket trucks.
>>
>>
>>
>> So like this
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.genielift.com/en/products/trailer-mounted-booms/tz50/
>>
>>
>>
>> or
>>
>>
>>
>> just bucket trucks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any suggestions? Any experience people can share.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tushar
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[Mike Hammett]

As I have no intention of buying anything in the PMP series , I'll rely on 
someone else to tell me if the did that. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:59:28 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

I thought they said they couldn't because the 450d/110 and 200 reflectors are 
different dimensions? 

I have no idea about the mounts. One thing I will say about the Force200 is 
that you want to be careful not to over-tighten the mast clamp bolts. It will 
bend the plate. If you can picture that. I know that's what it does, because it 
was me on a windy rooftop not paying attention... 


On 2/24/2016 7:12 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



They didn't run with our recommendation to make the radomes the same? 

Did the make the mounts the same? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:42:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the sub-reflector? 
I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed about selling just the 450d 
radome kit. Refusing to sell something they make seems pretty stupid. The 
sub-reflector is just the front of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into 
the front of the radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip 
off the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few. 

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated incorrectly, 
so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no worky for me. We're 
doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in 
mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet. 

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several years. It 
just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and heavy wet snow, which 
we're about to get here tomorrow damnit! 


On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote: 




Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I just cant risk 
another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I tried to drum up enough 
interest in Chucks condom but not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a 
response from Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. 
Although we did confirm they would fit / work. Kind of pissed me off since I 
was told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110. Now they 
have it but won’t sell it. 
I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan since we 
started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that they were not going 
to give us radomes we backed off the install schedule for the second links. So 
now we have to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I 
should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. 
That was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them. 

Best regards 
Brandon Yuchasz 
GogebicRange.net 
www.gogebicrange.net 

From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 

We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's. 

Would be nice if they could come up with a sync-over-power variant of the 200. 

. or let us order the 450d radome w/ sub-reflector element. The Force110 
and 450d is the same reflector.. and feed. 

Just sayin. 

On 2/23/2016 8:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 


Why go through the effort of replacing them? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Feb 23, 2016 9:31 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" < li...@gogebicrange.net > wrote: 


Not exactly what you are asking but we have done a lot of 10 to 12 mile links 
with the stock force 110 and got full modulation. I have not put up the force 
200 yet but plan to start replacing all the force 110 links with them as soon 
as the weather warms a bit. The old 110s will become backup links. 

Best regards, 
Brandon Yuchasz 
GogebicRange.net 
www.gogebicrange.net 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joseph Marsh 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 5:32 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Thanks for the info Mathew ... I don't like more than 10 miles. But was curious 
at 20 

On Feb 23, 2016 5:28 PM, "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Yeah - 40 miles appears to be 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I do enjoy the advice guys, thank you.

Now heres a new twist, I called the primary today to get the full
financials together. They are willing to maintain the debt under contract
directly to me essentially finance me and maintain an interest rate there
is no way I could get . It boils down to, in the simplest of terms, she
just want out and does not want to be asked for any more money.

I cant find any way this is a good idea

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:59 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is actually part of the original 3-5 year plan. John and Jerry, the
> two shaky ear cutting barbers both passed on some time ago. I want the
> barber pole from one of the two businesses. And I will buy them if i were
> to do this. There is only one barber in town, he is part of the team that
> pulled the coup here, while i dont like seeing a startup fail, they led in
> part to this disaster in the shop, the rent they owed alone when they
> skipped was substantial and still some of it is owed, im not nice like the
> current owners, one of the first orders of business is collecting that debt
> in court, their salon is already failing, hes moonlighting cutting hair at
> the walmart.
> but that still is due to poor management on this salons part. He was
> offered a room to have a dedicated barber shop, but another poor business
> decision was that that room would have a much steeper rental cost than the
> chair, no motivation.
>
> This particular building has no restrictions on moving walls, its all open
> space, there are four entrances. I would build a dedicated barber room with
> its own exterior entrance and glass to the interior, that rent would
> potentially be even discounted because of the value added service that
> currently is not offered in the near area. This is a long term thing though
> because a consideration would be sponsoring the tuition to send a candidate
> through the program under contract, that even could potentially be a
> transition to an on staff employee because of its potential. But not in the
> current state, or the near term. But as long as the "barber shop" feel was
> maintained, that independent contractor would have plenty of leeway.
>
>
> I lucked out with my boy, John was still lingering on, and I got him up
> for one of the last crooked ear bleeding cuts from the last of a dying
> breed for his first hair cut, so he has the mark on his ear.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Years ago, I got my hair cut at a place where the owner was a barber with
>> one chair in the back of the building with a separate entrance, the front
>> was a salon like you describe.  In the back the waiting room had sofas and
>> Playboys and booze.  Probably not a bad idea, except if a guy gets his hair
>> cut while he’s waiting for his wife or girlfriend, he probably still has an
>> hour to kill.  Need to add a sports bar next door.  Or do the guys get
>> mani-pedis and waxings now?  
>>
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:23 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>>
>> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have
>> a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get
>> one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>>
>> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
>> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
>> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
>> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
>> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
>> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
>> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
>> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
>> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>>
>> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
>> commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that
>> happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing
>> it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
>> and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
>> retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
>> heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
>> and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
>> return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
>> completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
>> of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps,
>> whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to
>> get them in the 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

This is actually part of the original 3-5 year plan. John and Jerry, the
two shaky ear cutting barbers both passed on some time ago. I want the
barber pole from one of the two businesses. And I will buy them if i were
to do this. There is only one barber in town, he is part of the team that
pulled the coup here, while i dont like seeing a startup fail, they led in
part to this disaster in the shop, the rent they owed alone when they
skipped was substantial and still some of it is owed, im not nice like the
current owners, one of the first orders of business is collecting that debt
in court, their salon is already failing, hes moonlighting cutting hair at
the walmart.
but that still is due to poor management on this salons part. He was
offered a room to have a dedicated barber shop, but another poor business
decision was that that room would have a much steeper rental cost than the
chair, no motivation.

This particular building has no restrictions on moving walls, its all open
space, there are four entrances. I would build a dedicated barber room with
its own exterior entrance and glass to the interior, that rent would
potentially be even discounted because of the value added service that
currently is not offered in the near area. This is a long term thing though
because a consideration would be sponsoring the tuition to send a candidate
through the program under contract, that even could potentially be a
transition to an on staff employee because of its potential. But not in the
current state, or the near term. But as long as the "barber shop" feel was
maintained, that independent contractor would have plenty of leeway.


I lucked out with my boy, John was still lingering on, and I got him up for
one of the last crooked ear bleeding cuts from the last of a dying breed
for his first hair cut, so he has the mark on his ear.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Years ago, I got my hair cut at a place where the owner was a barber with
> one chair in the back of the building with a separate entrance, the front
> was a salon like you describe.  In the back the waiting room had sofas and
> Playboys and booze.  Probably not a bad idea, except if a guy gets his hair
> cut while he’s waiting for his wife or girlfriend, he probably still has an
> hour to kill.  Need to add a sports bar next door.  Or do the guys get
> mani-pedis and waxings now?  
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have
> a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get
> one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>
> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>
> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
> commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that
> happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing
> it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
> and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
> retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
> heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
> and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
> return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
> completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
> of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps,
> whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to
> get them in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make profit
> on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making
> them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them
> at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at
> neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items, but
> their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all the
> salons.
>
> The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for
> her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of
> making profit on them, thats 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[George Skorup]

I thought they said they couldn't because the 450d/110 and 200 
reflectors are different dimensions?


I have no idea about the mounts. One thing I will say about the Force200 
is that you want to be careful not to over-tighten the mast clamp bolts. 
It will bend the plate. If you can picture that. I know that's what it 
does, because it was me on a windy rooftop not paying attention...


On 2/24/2016 7:12 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

They didn't run with our recommendation to make the radomes the same?

Did the make the mounts the same?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"George Skorup" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:42:51 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the 
sub-reflector? I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed 
about selling just the 450d radome kit. Refusing to sell something 
they make seems pretty stupid. The sub-reflector is just the front of 
the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into the front of the radome, as 
I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip off the 
suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few.


We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated 
incorrectly, so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no 
worky for me. We're doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to 
run the 14.1.2 beta builds in mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet.


We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several 
years. It just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and 
heavy wet snow, which we're about to get here tomorrow damnit!


On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I
just cant risk another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I
tried to drum up enough interest in Chucks condom but not enough
jumped on board. I didn’t even get a response from Cambium when I
asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. Although we did
confirm they would fit / work.  Kind of pissed me off since I was
told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110.
Now they have it but won’t sell it.

I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan
since we started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that
they were not going to give us radomes we backed off the install
schedule for the second links.  So now we have to deploy the 200’s
to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I should have just
deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. That
was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them.

Best regards

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:

We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's.

Would be nice if they could come up with a sync-over-power variant
of the 200.

. or let us order the 450d radome w/ sub-reflector element.
The Force110 and 450d is the same reflector.. and feed.

Just sayin.

On 2/23/2016 8:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why go through the effort of replacing them?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 9:31 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"
> wrote:

Not exactly what you are asking but we have done a lot of 10
to 12 mile links with the stock force 110 and got full
modulation. I have not put up the force 200 yet but plan to
start replacing all the force 110 links with them as soon as
the weather warms a bit. The old 110s will become backup links.

Best regards,

Brandon 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[Matt Mangriotis]

This all comes down to packaging and shipping…

We might be able to set up and sell just the radome, but it’s big and takes up 
a lot of space in a box.  You will probably not like the price we’d have to 
charge.

Have any of them broken?

Also, with respect to using them with Force products, I will check with 
engineering on possible gotchas.  I have never considered this.

After investigation, would you guys mind if I reach out to you (George and 
Brandon) to discuss potential pricing, quantities and feasibility?

Matt

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Yeah, that's dumb. So we can't even order replacements if they break? OK, maybe 
we just won't buy any 450d at all. I hope they are listening.
On 2/24/2016 7:10 AM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
Cambium does not have a part number assigned to the radome w/ sub reflector. So 
no distributors can purchase them and sell them to us. I agree its seems silly 
not to sell them but that’s what the sales reps are getting from Cambium and as 
I mentioned then didn’t return my calls or emails asking about it. I am 
generally a fan of Cambiums processes and products but this whole think left a 
bad taste in my mouth.

Best regards,
Brandon Yuchasz
GogebicRange.net
www.gogebicrange.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the sub-reflector? 
I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed about selling just the 450d 
radome kit. Refusing to sell something they make seems pretty stupid. The 
sub-reflector is just the front of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into 
the front of the radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip 
off the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few.

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated incorrectly, 
so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no worky for me. We're 
doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in 
mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet.

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several years. It 
just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and heavy wet snow, which 
we're about to get here tomorrow damnit!
On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I just cant risk 
another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I tried to drum up enough 
interest in Chucks condom but not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a 
response from Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. 
Although we did confirm they would fit / work.  Kind of pissed me off since I 
was told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110. Now they 
have it but won’t sell it.
I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan since we 
started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that they were not going 
to give us radomes we backed off the install schedule for the second links.  So 
now we have to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I 
should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. 
That was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them.

Best regards
Brandon Yuchasz
GogebicRange.net
www.gogebicrange.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance


Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" 
> wrote:
We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's.

Would be nice if they could come up with a sync-over-power variant of the 200.

. or let us order the 450d radome w/ sub-reflector element. The Force110 
and 450d is the same reflector.. and feed.

Just sayin.
On 2/23/2016 8:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why go through the effort of replacing them?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 23, 2016 9:31 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
> wrote:
Not exactly what you are asking but we have done a lot of 10 to 12 mile links 
with the stock force 110 and got full modulation. I have not put up the force 
200 yet but plan to start replacing all the force 110 links with them as soon 
as the weather warms a bit. The old 110s will become backup links.

Best regards,
Brandon Yuchasz

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[George Skorup]

Yeah, that's dumb. So we can't even order replacements if they break? 
OK, maybe we just won't buy any 450d at all. I hope they are listening.


On 2/24/2016 7:10 AM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:


Cambium does not have a part number assigned to the radome w/ sub 
reflector. So no distributors can purchase them and sell them to us. I 
agree its seems silly not to sell them but that’s what the sales reps 
are getting from Cambium and as I mentioned then didn’t return my 
calls or emails asking about it. I am generally a fan of Cambiums 
processes and products but this whole think left a bad taste in my mouth.


Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:43 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the 
sub-reflector? I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed 
about selling just the 450d radome kit. Refusing to sell something 
they make seems pretty stupid. The sub-reflector is just the front of 
the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into the front of the radome, as 
I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip off the 
suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few.


We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated 
incorrectly, so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no 
worky for me. We're doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to 
run the 14.1.2 beta builds in mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet.


We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several 
years. It just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and 
heavy wet snow, which we're about to get here tomorrow damnit!


On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I
just cant risk another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I
tried to drum up enough interest in Chucks condom but not enough
jumped on board. I didn’t even get a response from Cambium when I
asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. Although we did
confirm they would fit / work.  Kind of pissed me off since I was
told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110.
Now they have it but won’t sell it.

I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan
since we started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that
they were not going to give us radomes we backed off the install
schedule for the second links.  So now we have to deploy the 200’s
to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I should have just
deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. That
was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them.

Best regards

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:

We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's.

Would be nice if they could come up with a sync-over-power variant
of the 200.

. or let us order the 450d radome w/ sub-reflector element.
The Force110 and 450d is the same reflector.. and feed.

Just sayin.

On 2/23/2016 8:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why go through the effort of replacing them?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 9:31 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"
> wrote:

Not exactly what you are asking but we have done a lot of 10
to 12 mile links with the stock force 110 and got full
modulation. I have not put up the force 200 yet but plan to
start replacing all the force 110 links with them as soon as
the weather warms a bit. The old 110s will become backup links.

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Marsh
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 5:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

Thanks for the info Mathew ... I don't like more than 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 PMP-450 antenna choices

[George Skorup]

We get decent near-LOS out of our 3.6 450. NLOS, like 900 NLOS... not a 
chance in hell. I suppose my house would be an exception, although I'd 
still call it near-LOS. I have a very old large maple tree about 100 
feet away (in the neighbor's yard) directly in the path. Beyond that it 
is clear. My SM is on a reflector at 40 feet. And the sector is at 225 
feet. One mile away. I get about -57dBm Rx power level. Works a hell of 
a lot better than the UBNT ever did, that's for sure.


On 2/24/2016 8:32 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
I am primarily using the KPP 120 degree sector and i am not happy with 
performance. I am using the Cambium 90 degree sector in one 
application and its NLOS and works very well. Just wondering if anyone 
else is having similar results to that.


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:58 AM, timothy steele 
> wrote:


If your going for Nlos I would try and stay away from 120. Even
Ubnt will tell you they don't like 120

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 3:02 PM Mathew Howard
> wrote:

Yeah, looking at the pattern in the spec sheet for the Cambium
antenna, it looks to be about -10db at 120.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, George Skorup
> wrote:

All I have used is the Laird OEM antenna as well. The
null-fill is nice. It is definitely a -6dB 90/-3dB 65. I
have found that it rolls off sharply beyond 90.

Cambium claims >32dB F/B ratio. I know Mark @ Amplex has
mentioned this before, short range SMs (like 1/2 mile or
so) seem to get crappy downlink SNR. They are apparently
hearing the opposite sector on the same frequency which
points to the F/B ratio. I have seen this as well. I
actually put up a post on the Cambium community about it
last night.

On 2/23/2016 12:24 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

Sean,

Really? I was told the 90 degree cambium sector was
actually a 65 degree sector so you using it at 120
degrees? I would assume there is at least a 6db
difference between the center of the beamwidth and the
outer edges at 120 degrees.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Sean Heskett
> wrote:

I've only used the cambium one...works great.

You can actually use it as a 120* sector if you need
to, you just loose 3db more than at the 90* point.



On Tuesday, February 23, 2016, Kurt Fankhauser
> wrote:

Has anyone used all three of these antenna
choices for PMP450/3.65ghz ?

- KP 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
- Cambium Stock 90 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
- Alpha Wireless 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector

And what was your thoughts on all of them? Did
any perform worse or better than the other?

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Simon Westlake]

Really? I'm surprised there aren't more places doing things like 'Free 
beer with your meal' or 'buy some peanuts at $5 a bowl and get a free 
beer!' but maybe there's already something closing that loophole..


On 2/24/2016 11:34 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a 
license if you are giving it away.


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


So, become a church...
*From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and
not have a liquor license, but there are no available licenses
here, i think we get one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a
strained familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both
parties are more than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with
each separately specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt
want to get into a train wreck. The more im learning of the
details, there were alot of points in time where all it would have
taken was two people just stopping to talk to one another and the
disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on knowing the
individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned
from commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business
floating. Once that happened two things took place, the chairs saw
no real benefit in pushing it which was made worse by the fact it
essentially equated to a pay cut, and the financier partner saw no
gain in risking bringing in any new retail. In the schooling that
costs 16k, they drill that into the girls heads, retail, retail,
retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut and everybody
offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders,
they completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking
to a friend of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby
covers and boob caps, whatever. these things move like hot cakes
in the salons. We had tried to get them in the salon before, but
what the owners wanted was to make profit on them to the point it
wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making them for what they
wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them at too much
markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at neat
stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items,
but their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them
in all the salons.
The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time
for her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no
intention of making profit on them, thats actually an expected
cost. If i lose 5 bucks on some tit hat, but that client shows it
to her girlfriend who just needs one as well, and were the only
joint you can get them, the "staff" has the option to discount
them even further when the new customer comes in to get one, if
they can leverage it for a service and new contact capture. Women
are weird in the crap theyll drive 20 miles to buy, but the chair
has the option to grow their client base, and the shop gets a new
marketing contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".
I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether,
but one thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner
couldn't justify was surveillance. That will go in day one, the
chairs will know every corner that can legally be recorded will
be. If theyre not serious enough about the industry to know that
theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious about growing their
small business, and they can find a chair in another salon. This
may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high
revenue generating thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief,
so i know what kind of trash one is deep inside and i dont want
them as part of the team. I know a couple of the salon owners
overlook things. I cant do that. This salon size has potential to
reach the sales numbers quickly again to where the premium pricing
comes back, which is something they dont have right now. combine
sales motivation with a digital retail square app or whatever that
broads can but some overpriced shampoo and some nifty curling iron
at a whim on their phone from the bar in the bathroom on their
night out with friends and theres better pricing for more margin
to offer as 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Ken Hohhof]

“That One Church”

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

HA!  that's the best advice ever Chuck :-) 

here's a "how to" from john oliver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  So, become a church...

  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

  Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have a 
liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get one 
per church, so we have plenty of bars. 

  A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained familiar 
relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more than 
agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately specifically to see 
what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train wreck. The more im 
learning of the details, there were alot of points in time where all it would 
have taken was two people just stopping to talk to one another and the disaster 
would have been avoidable, I think, based on knowing the individuals, that had 
either one of them not been in the mother/daughter environment, this would 
never have happened.

  A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from 
commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that 
happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing it 
which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut, and the 
financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new retail. In the 
schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls heads, retail, retail, 
retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut and everybody offers a 
haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the return of retail sales 
comission, and the return of loss leaders, they completely eliminated that 
struggling to float. I was talking to a friend of mine last night, she crochets 
artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps, whatever. these things move like hot 
cakes in the salons. We had tried to get them in the salon before, but what the 
owners wanted was to make profit on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her 
to spend the time making them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they 
wanted to sell them at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a 
real talent at neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar 
items, but their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all 
the salons.

  The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for her, 
like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of making profit 
on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks on some tit hat, 
but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs one as well, and were 
the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the option to discount them 
even further when the new customer comes in to get one, if they can leverage it 
for a service and new contact capture. Women are weird in the crap theyll drive 
20 miles to buy, but the chair has the option to grow their client base, and 
the shop gets a new marketing contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".

  I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but one 
thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify was 
surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every corner that 
can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough about the 
industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious about 
growing their small business, and they can find a chair in another salon. This 
may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high revenue generating 
thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i know what kind of trash one 
is deep inside and i dont want them as part of the team. I know a couple of the 
salon owners overlook things. I cant do that. This salon size has potential to 
reach the sales numbers quickly again to where the premium pricing comes back, 
which is something they dont have right now. combine sales motivation with a 
digital retail square app or whatever that broads can but some overpriced 
shampoo and some nifty curling iron at a whim on their phone from the bar in 
the bathroom on their night out with friends and theres better pricing for more 
margin to offer as increased commission. The way i see that, if the store is 
making 3 dollars on a bottle of shampoo after commission and the pricing gains 
happen to where theres room for 4 dollars on it We can give 50 cents or even 
the whole dollar to the chairs in commission. So a chair that normally moves 3 
bottles a week for 9 bucks is motivated to move more, if they move 4, im still 
making the 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Ken Hohhof]

Years ago, I got my hair cut at a place where the owner was a barber with one 
chair in the back of the building with a separate entrance, the front was a 
salon like you describe.  In the back the waiting room had sofas and Playboys 
and booze.  Probably not a bad idea, except if a guy gets his hair cut while 
he’s waiting for his wife or girlfriend, he probably still has an hour to kill. 
 Need to add a sports bar next door.  Or do the guys get mani-pedis and waxings 
now?  


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have a 
liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get one 
per church, so we have plenty of bars. 

A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained familiar 
relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more than 
agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately specifically to see 
what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train wreck. The more im 
learning of the details, there were alot of points in time where all it would 
have taken was two people just stopping to talk to one another and the disaster 
would have been avoidable, I think, based on knowing the individuals, that had 
either one of them not been in the mother/daughter environment, this would 
never have happened.

A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from 
commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that 
happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing it 
which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut, and the 
financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new retail. In the 
schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls heads, retail, retail, 
retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut and everybody offers a 
haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the return of retail sales 
comission, and the return of loss leaders, they completely eliminated that 
struggling to float. I was talking to a friend of mine last night, she crochets 
artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps, whatever. these things move like hot 
cakes in the salons. We had tried to get them in the salon before, but what the 
owners wanted was to make profit on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her 
to spend the time making them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they 
wanted to sell them at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a 
real talent at neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar 
items, but their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all 
the salons.

The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for her, 
like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of making profit 
on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks on some tit hat, 
but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs one as well, and were 
the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the option to discount them 
even further when the new customer comes in to get one, if they can leverage it 
for a service and new contact capture. Women are weird in the crap theyll drive 
20 miles to buy, but the chair has the option to grow their client base, and 
the shop gets a new marketing contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".

I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but one 
thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify was 
surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every corner that 
can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough about the 
industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious about 
growing their small business, and they can find a chair in another salon. This 
may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high revenue generating 
thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i know what kind of trash one 
is deep inside and i dont want them as part of the team. I know a couple of the 
salon owners overlook things. I cant do that. This salon size has potential to 
reach the sales numbers quickly again to where the premium pricing comes back, 
which is something they dont have right now. combine sales motivation with a 
digital retail square app or whatever that broads can but some overpriced 
shampoo and some nifty curling iron at a whim on their phone from the bar in 
the bathroom on their night out with friends and theres better pricing for more 
margin to offer as increased commission. The way i see that, if the store is 
making 3 dollars on a bottle of shampoo after commission and the pricing gains 
happen to where theres room for 4 dollars on it We can give 50 cents or even 
the whole dollar to the chairs in commission. So a chair that normally 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Sean Heskett]

HA!  that's the best advice ever Chuck :-)

here's a "how to" from john oliver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> So, become a church...
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have
> a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get
> one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>
> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>
> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
> commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that
> happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing
> it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
> and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
> retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
> heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
> and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
> return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
> completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
> of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps,
> whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to
> get them in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make profit
> on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making
> them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them
> at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at
> neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items, but
> their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all the
> salons.
>
> The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for
> her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of
> making profit on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks
> on some tit hat, but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs
> one as well, and were the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the
> option to discount them even further when the new customer comes in to get
> one, if they can leverage it for a service and new contact capture. Women
> are weird in the crap theyll drive 20 miles to buy, but the chair has the
> option to grow their client base, and the shop gets a new marketing
> contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".
>
> I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but one
> thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify was
> surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every corner
> that can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough about
> the industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious
> about growing their small business, and they can find a chair in another
> salon. This may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high
> revenue generating thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i know
> what kind of trash one is deep inside and i dont want them as part of the
> team. I know a couple of the salon owners overlook things. I cant do that.
> This salon size has potential to reach the sales numbers quickly again to
> where the premium pricing comes back, which is something they dont have
> right now. combine sales motivation with a digital retail square app or
> whatever that broads can but some overpriced shampoo and some nifty curling
> iron at a whim on their phone from the bar in the bathroom on their night
> out with friends and theres better pricing for more margin to offer as
> increased commission. The way i see that, if the store is making 3 dollars
> on a bottle of shampoo after commission and the pricing gains happen to
> where theres room for 4 dollars on it We can give 50 cents or even the
> whole dollar to the chairs in commission. So a chair that normally moves 3
> bottles a week for 9 bucks is motivated to move more, if they move 4, im
> still making the same amount i would have made if i pocketed 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Cameron Crum]

Obviously check your liquor laws, but in most states you don't need a
license if you are giving it away.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> So, become a church...
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon
>
> Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have
> a liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get
> one per church, so we have plenty of bars.
>
> A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
> familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
> than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
> specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
> wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
> time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
> one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
> knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
> mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.
>
> A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
> commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that
> happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing
> it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
> and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
> retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
> heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
> and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
> return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
> completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
> of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps,
> whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to
> get them in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make profit
> on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making
> them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them
> at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at
> neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items, but
> their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all the
> salons.
>
> The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for
> her, like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of
> making profit on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks
> on some tit hat, but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs
> one as well, and were the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the
> option to discount them even further when the new customer comes in to get
> one, if they can leverage it for a service and new contact capture. Women
> are weird in the crap theyll drive 20 miles to buy, but the chair has the
> option to grow their client base, and the shop gets a new marketing
> contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".
>
> I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but one
> thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify was
> surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every corner
> that can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough about
> the industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious
> about growing their small business, and they can find a chair in another
> salon. This may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high
> revenue generating thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i know
> what kind of trash one is deep inside and i dont want them as part of the
> team. I know a couple of the salon owners overlook things. I cant do that.
> This salon size has potential to reach the sales numbers quickly again to
> where the premium pricing comes back, which is something they dont have
> right now. combine sales motivation with a digital retail square app or
> whatever that broads can but some overpriced shampoo and some nifty curling
> iron at a whim on their phone from the bar in the bathroom on their night
> out with friends and theres better pricing for more margin to offer as
> increased commission. The way i see that, if the store is making 3 dollars
> on a bottle of shampoo after commission and the pricing gains happen to
> where theres room for 4 dollars on it We can give 50 cents or even the
> whole dollar to the chairs in commission. So a chair that normally moves 3
> bottles a week for 9 bucks is motivated to move more, if they move 4, im
> still making the same amount i would have made if i pocketed the discount
> as 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Chuck McCown]

So, become a church...

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have a 
liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get one 
per church, so we have plenty of bars. 

A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained familiar 
relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more than 
agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately specifically to see 
what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train wreck. The more im 
learning of the details, there were alot of points in time where all it would 
have taken was two people just stopping to talk to one another and the disaster 
would have been avoidable, I think, based on knowing the individuals, that had 
either one of them not been in the mother/daughter environment, this would 
never have happened.

A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from 
commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that 
happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing it 
which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut, and the 
financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new retail. In the 
schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls heads, retail, retail, 
retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut and everybody offers a 
haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the return of retail sales 
comission, and the return of loss leaders, they completely eliminated that 
struggling to float. I was talking to a friend of mine last night, she crochets 
artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps, whatever. these things move like hot 
cakes in the salons. We had tried to get them in the salon before, but what the 
owners wanted was to make profit on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her 
to spend the time making them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they 
wanted to sell them at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a 
real talent at neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar 
items, but their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all 
the salons.

The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for her, 
like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of making profit 
on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks on some tit hat, 
but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs one as well, and were 
the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the option to discount them 
even further when the new customer comes in to get one, if they can leverage it 
for a service and new contact capture. Women are weird in the crap theyll drive 
20 miles to buy, but the chair has the option to grow their client base, and 
the shop gets a new marketing contact, thats always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".

I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but one 
thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify was 
surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every corner that 
can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough about the 
industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious about 
growing their small business, and they can find a chair in another salon. This 
may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high revenue generating 
thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i know what kind of trash one 
is deep inside and i dont want them as part of the team. I know a couple of the 
salon owners overlook things. I cant do that. This salon size has potential to 
reach the sales numbers quickly again to where the premium pricing comes back, 
which is something they dont have right now. combine sales motivation with a 
digital retail square app or whatever that broads can but some overpriced 
shampoo and some nifty curling iron at a whim on their phone from the bar in 
the bathroom on their night out with friends and theres better pricing for more 
margin to offer as increased commission. The way i see that, if the store is 
making 3 dollars on a bottle of shampoo after commission and the pricing gains 
happen to where theres room for 4 dollars on it We can give 50 cents or even 
the whole dollar to the chairs in commission. So a chair that normally moves 3 
bottles a week for 9 bucks is motivated to move more, if they move 4, im still 
making the same amount i would have made if i pocketed the discount as an 
increase in sales, but there not motivated to sell more than 3. Im over 
simplifying it, and probably completely wrong, but thats how ive always seen 
retail with commission, and salon markup is high

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  The thing about 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Booze is not a bad idea, i dont know if you can just give it and not have a
liquor license, but there are no available licenses here, i think we get
one per church, so we have plenty of bars.

A clarification on the relationship between the two, its a strained
familiar relationship due to differences in visions. Both parties are more
than agreeable to the whole scenario, I met with each separately
specifically to see what the dynamic was, I didnt want to get into a train
wreck. The more im learning of the details, there were alot of points in
time where all it would have taken was two people just stopping to talk to
one another and the disaster would have been avoidable, I think, based on
knowing the individuals, that had either one of them not been in the
mother/daughter environment, this would never have happened.

A poor choice in the failure chain was retail, it got transitioned from
commission sales to a mechanism the keep the business floating. Once that
happened two things took place, the chairs saw no real benefit in pushing
it which was made worse by the fact it essentially equated to a pay cut,
and the financier partner saw no gain in risking bringing in any new
retail. In the schooling that costs 16k, they drill that into the girls
heads, retail, retail, retail, without it, all youre offering is a haircut
and everybody offers a haircut. Thats already been an agreed upon term, the
return of retail sales comission, and the return of loss leaders, they
completely eliminated that struggling to float. I was talking to a friend
of mine last night, she crochets artsy shit like baby covers and boob caps,
whatever. these things move like hot cakes in the salons. We had tried to
get them in the salon before, but what the owners wanted was to make profit
on them to the point it wasnt worth it for her to spend the time making
them for what they wanted to pay, on top of that they wanted to sell them
at too much markup. This girl doesnt live here, she has a real talent at
neat stuff. There are two other chics in town that make similar items, but
their styles are identical to one another, and they sell them in all the
salons.

The old lady ended up selling them to other people in a short time for her,
like crack, ladies love crocheted crack. Id have no intention of making
profit on them, thats actually an expected cost. If i lose 5 bucks on some
tit hat, but that client shows it to her girlfriend who just needs one as
well, and were the only joint you can get them, the "staff" has the option
to discount them even further when the new customer comes in to get one, if
they can leverage it for a service and new contact capture. Women are weird
in the crap theyll drive 20 miles to buy, but the chair has the option to
grow their client base, and the shop gets a new marketing contact, thats
always worth 5 or 10 bucks "loss".

I also have an expectation of some loss in inventory to the ether, but one
thing the daughter wanted but the financier partner couldn't justify was
surveillance. That will go in day one, the chairs will know every corner
that can legally be recorded will be. If theyre not serious enough about
the industry to know that theft is a rampant concern, theyre not serious
about growing their small business, and they can find a chair in another
salon. This may be a poor attitude as a business owner, but even a high
revenue generating thief is still a thief, I used to be a thief, so i know
what kind of trash one is deep inside and i dont want them as part of the
team. I know a couple of the salon owners overlook things. I cant do that.
This salon size has potential to reach the sales numbers quickly again to
where the premium pricing comes back, which is something they dont have
right now. combine sales motivation with a digital retail square app or
whatever that broads can but some overpriced shampoo and some nifty curling
iron at a whim on their phone from the bar in the bathroom on their night
out with friends and theres better pricing for more margin to offer as
increased commission. The way i see that, if the store is making 3 dollars
on a bottle of shampoo after commission and the pricing gains happen to
where theres room for 4 dollars on it We can give 50 cents or even the
whole dollar to the chairs in commission. So a chair that normally moves 3
bottles a week for 9 bucks is motivated to move more, if they move 4, im
still making the same amount i would have made if i pocketed the discount
as an increase in sales, but there not motivated to sell more than 3. Im
over simplifying it, and probably completely wrong, but thats how ive
always seen retail with commission, and salon markup is high

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

> The thing about being the 51 percent share holder is that you might as
> well own the whole thing. You get to make all the decisions. Basically you
> could make it very hard for the 49% owner to make a dime off of the
> business 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

decision on her own. It sucks for the daughter and will probably ruin their 
relationship if they have one and the mother will probably get sued if she 
sells it out from under her daughter, but oh well. I would never buy someone 
else's known liabilities especially if I knew the business was in decline. You 
are asking for trouble. They either need to clear up the liabilities before the 
sale (with proof of such) or sell you the assets only and GTFO. I'm sure your 
lawyer and accountant would agree. 



i will add that having failed and successful businesses in the past - 
usually when a business is at this point, the "mom and daughter" certainly 
don't have income or assets to be able to pay off debt they have racked up.   
The chance of them being able to clean up liabilities is probably less than 10%.

Re: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck

[Nate Burke]

When given the choice between the ladder or a Bucket, It seems that the 
guys always choose the ladder.  They say the Bucket is 'Too Slow'


They will choose the bucket when it requires lifting ballast onto a roof 
however.


On 2/24/2016 10:59 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
What I noticed is once you do an install with a bucket, any future 
service or removal then requires a bucket.  So once you go down this 
road, there's almost no turning back.  For that reason, even when 
there's access to a bucket, I'd use the ladder whenever possible.


IMO it's also slower to set up and maneuver the bucket than to set up 
a ladder and climb it.


On 2/24/2016 9:52 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
Have been running bucket trucks since i started in 2004. Started off 
with a used $6500 F-450 truck that was bought at an auction, truck 
got me by but was a mechanical nightmare and a safety concern. In 
2008 I bought a used 8 year old truck on an F550 chassis with a 42 
foot Articlated/Telescoptic Versalift boom. Paid $35,000 for this 
truck and had $600/month payments. This truck had a 50 foot working 
height if you were all the way extended. I didn't know at the time if 
i could justify the cost but after I had the truck 6 months it 
generated enough new installs that I wouldn't have been able to do 
without the truck that it was now making its own payments.BEST 
DECISION I EVER MADE.


Now not only was I able to do more installs but i noticed that the 
quality of my installs was improved, antenna mounting locations were 
higher and this was resulting in better SNR's on my installed 
clients. That is a huge side benefit that often gets overlooked. In 
2014 I ordered a new F550 with the same configuration as the previous 
truck but with an extended cab. I had to special order everything, 
ordered the chassis through a ford dealer and had my local versalift 
dealer upfit the truck. Whole process was 8 months. Longest time was 
the wait for the Versalift dealer to get my boom in, apparently they 
are backlogged. The truck chassis cost $42,000 and the boom/body cost 
$60,000.


Looking back I would not recommend buying the brand new truck unless 
you absoletely need a write off. If i wouldn't have had significant 
cash to put down on the new truck i would have been looking at over 
$2,500/month payments. Also if i wasn't the one operating the truck 
daily and i had an employee i wouldn't have done it either, employees 
break stuff through careless actions and a truck that expensive i 
didn't want someone to tear up.


The one side benefit to buying the new truck is the maintenance costs 
have been zero. I had an average of $500-$750/month maintenance costs 
on the used 2008 truck, everything from the boom having blown 
hydraulic hoses to transmission replacements and diesel engine problems.


Let me know if you have any other questions!

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Nate Burke > wrote:


How often do you need it?  We have a local rental shop that rents
that exact unit for $300/day.  Does the cost of the unit outweigh
just renting it when you need it.  I would definitely make some
pads for the outrigger to go on, they are pretty small.  How
skilled are your guys at backing up trailers?  That's the hardest
thing with this one.

On 2/22/2016 4:29 PM, Tushar Patel wrote:


We are considering buying trailer Mounted booms or bucket truck.

Some roofs are just too hard to get up and we have lot of push
up poles so to service them it would be lot easier with bucket
trucks.

So like this

http://www.genielift.com/en/products/trailer-mounted-booms/tz50/

or

just bucket trucks.

Any suggestions? Any experience people can share.

Tushar

Re: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck

[Adam Moffett]

What I noticed is once you do an install with a bucket, any future 
service or removal then requires a bucket.  So once you go down this 
road, there's almost no turning back.  For that reason, even when 
there's access to a bucket, I'd use the ladder whenever possible.


IMO it's also slower to set up and maneuver the bucket than to set up a 
ladder and climb it.


On 2/24/2016 9:52 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
Have been running bucket trucks since i started in 2004. Started off 
with a used $6500 F-450 truck that was bought at an auction, truck got 
me by but was a mechanical nightmare and a safety concern. In 2008 I 
bought a used 8 year old truck on an F550 chassis with a 42 foot 
Articlated/Telescoptic Versalift boom. Paid $35,000 for this truck and 
had $600/month payments. This truck had a 50 foot working height if 
you were all the way extended. I didn't know at the time if i could 
justify the cost but after I had the truck 6 months it generated 
enough new installs that I wouldn't have been able to do without the 
truck that it was now making its own payments.BEST DECISION I EVER MADE.


Now not only was I able to do more installs but i noticed that the 
quality of my installs was improved, antenna mounting locations were 
higher and this was resulting in better SNR's on my installed clients. 
That is a huge side benefit that often gets overlooked. In 2014 I 
ordered a new F550 with the same configuration as the previous truck 
but with an extended cab. I had to special order everything, ordered 
the chassis through a ford dealer and had my local versalift dealer 
upfit the truck. Whole process was 8 months. Longest time was the wait 
for the Versalift dealer to get my boom in, apparently they are 
backlogged. The truck chassis cost $42,000 and the boom/body cost $60,000.


Looking back I would not recommend buying the brand new truck unless 
you absoletely need a write off. If i wouldn't have had significant 
cash to put down on the new truck i would have been looking at over 
$2,500/month payments. Also if i wasn't the one operating the truck 
daily and i had an employee i wouldn't have done it either, employees 
break stuff through careless actions and a truck that expensive i 
didn't want someone to tear up.


The one side benefit to buying the new truck is the maintenance costs 
have been zero. I had an average of $500-$750/month maintenance costs 
on the used 2008 truck, everything from the boom having blown 
hydraulic hoses to transmission replacements and diesel engine problems.


Let me know if you have any other questions!

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Nate Burke > wrote:


How often do you need it?  We have a local rental shop that rents
that exact unit for $300/day.  Does the cost of the unit outweigh
just renting it when you need it.  I would definitely make some
pads for the outrigger to go on, they are pretty small.  How
skilled are your guys at backing up trailers? That's the hardest
thing with this one.

On 2/22/2016 4:29 PM, Tushar Patel wrote:


We are considering buying trailer Mounted booms or bucket truck.

Some roofs are just too hard to get up and we have lot of push up
poles so to service them it would be lot easier with bucket trucks.

So like this

http://www.genielift.com/en/products/trailer-mounted-booms/tz50/

or

just bucket trucks.

Any suggestions? Any experience people can share.

Tushar

Re: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck

[can...@believewireless.net]

These are the trucks and booms we like as well. However, we have Isuzus as
well and _I_ prefer them because
they are more fuel efficient and have an awesome turning radius. However,
the cab is bouncy to ride in, so most of
the tech hate driving them.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Have been running bucket trucks since i started in 2004. Started off with
> a used $6500 F-450 truck that was bought at an auction, truck got me by but
> was a mechanical nightmare and a safety concern. In 2008 I bought a used 8
> year old truck on an F550 chassis with a 42 foot Articlated/Telescoptic
> Versalift boom. Paid $35,000 for this truck and had $600/month payments.
> This truck had a 50 foot working height if you were all the way extended. I
> didn't know at the time if i could justify the cost but after I had the
> truck 6 months it generated enough new installs that I wouldn't have been
> able to do without the truck that it was now making its own payments.BEST
> DECISION I EVER MADE.
>
> Now not only was I able to do more installs but i noticed that the quality
> of my installs was improved, antenna mounting locations were higher and
> this was resulting in better SNR's on my installed clients. That is a huge
> side benefit that often gets overlooked. In 2014 I ordered a new F550 with
> the same configuration as the previous truck but with an extended cab. I
> had to special order everything, ordered the chassis through a ford dealer
> and had my local versalift dealer upfit the truck. Whole process was 8
> months. Longest time was the wait for the Versalift dealer to get my boom
> in, apparently they are backlogged. The truck chassis cost $42,000 and the
> boom/body cost $60,000.
>
> Looking back I would not recommend buying the brand new truck unless you
> absoletely need a write off. If i wouldn't have had significant cash to put
> down on the new truck i would have been looking at over $2,500/month
> payments. Also if i wasn't the one operating the truck daily and i had an
> employee i wouldn't have done it either, employees break stuff through
> careless actions and a truck that expensive i didn't want someone to tear
> up.
>
> The one side benefit to buying the new truck is the maintenance costs have
> been zero. I had an average of $500-$750/month maintenance costs on the
> used 2008 truck, everything from the boom having blown hydraulic hoses to
> transmission replacements and diesel engine problems.
>
> Let me know if you have any other questions!
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> How often do you need it?  We have a local rental shop that rents that
>> exact unit for $300/day.  Does the cost of the unit outweigh just renting
>> it when you need it.  I would definitely make some pads for the outrigger
>> to go on, they are pretty small.  How skilled are your guys at backing up
>> trailers?  That's the hardest thing with this one.
>>
>> On 2/22/2016 4:29 PM, Tushar Patel wrote:
>>
>> We are considering buying trailer Mounted booms or bucket truck.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some roofs are just too hard to get up and we have lot of push up poles
>> so to service them it would be lot easier with bucket trucks.
>>
>>
>>
>> So like this
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.genielift.com/en/products/trailer-mounted-booms/tz50/
>>
>>
>>
>> or
>>
>>
>>
>> just bucket trucks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any suggestions? Any experience people can share.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tushar
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Cameron Crum]

The thing about being the 51 percent share holder is that you might as well
own the whole thing. You get to make all the decisions. Basically you could
make it very hard for the 49% owner to make a dime off of the business
outside of her labor contribution. I'm not saying you should do this, but
it sounds like there is some dead weight there and it might be time to move
on. However, your best bet is to buy the assets (Name,chairs,equipment,etc)
of the business and leave the corporate structure alone. They can worry
about their own debt and other liabilities with whatever money you agree to
pay. After that it is their problem. Sign a new lease under the new company
with the landlord and go on your way. Now you don't have to worry about
having a boat anchor as a partner. The current majority owner should be
able to make this decision on her own. It sucks for the daughter and will
probably ruin their relationship if they have one and the mother will
probably get sued if she sells it out from under her daughter, but oh well.
I would never buy someone else's known liabilities especially if I knew the
business was in decline. You are asking for trouble. They either need to
clear up the liabilities before the sale (with proof of such) or sell you
the assets only and GTFO. I'm sure your lawyer and accountant would agree.

I would also worry about the business model a little bit. It would be too
easy to cheat on the % side. Flat booth rent has lower upside, but more
stability, Depending on commission from work leaves a lot of incentive to
hide money, especially if it is a cash business. They WILL make under the
table deals. Product is going to be a big money maker if you know how to
push it. My wife was the AVEDA rep for SoCal for a few years back in the
90's, and has manged high end salons in Santa Monica and LA. She says that
unless you make every appointment, and actually watch what every stylist
does, it will be difficult to make sure they are being honest. The salon
manager has to really on top of her game and somewhat of a hard ass.
However, product in that business can have HUGE margins. You need to pick a
pretty high end line, and make sure all the stylists are TRAINED correctly
by the reps on how to sell the product, and use that product exclusively
for shampoos and such. Offer them commissions on sales and make sure they
are pushing it. When I was in college I worked on the beach in S. Padre
Island in the summers for a beach service who also happened to be the
Panama Jack distributor for Texas. As we rented umbrellas and chairs and
boogie boards to people, we would push product giving free samples. They
paid me 30% of what I brought in on product, so imagine the profit in a
bottle of junk most of these places are selling. It is similar in the hair
business.

One last thing...free booze. Keep half decent bottles of Cab, Merlot, and
Chardonnay on hand and maybe some decent beer for the occasional guy who
stumbles in or the poor schlub who was dragged along by his gf and offer it
to everyone.  Don't let them get drunk, but a glass or two over an hour or
so helps to loosen the purse strings. Feeding the dude a beer or two makes
sitting in a salon more bearable and he might even spring for that $30
bottle of sweet conditioner that makes his chicks hair soft and smell good
so he can take her home and see how fast he can mess it up.

Good luck

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> How you pay yourself can depend on the type of corporate form you take.
> LLC that are pass through don't pay taxes and all income follows through to
> the owner's tax filing via a K1. I agree with forest in that you should
> count your salary, even though sometimes you may have to put it right back
> in. The other side of that is if you take "excess" pay make sure to record
> that on the books in a way you can pull that off in a presentation to a
> potential buyer.
> You should keep forefront in mind that you must pay no more than what it
> is worth no matter what the present owners would like to get out of it.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016, 3:40 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I started writing a long post about how to work through this logically,
>> but it sounds like you're already going down that path.
>>
>> The thoughts that occurred to me for you to consider:
>>
>> The business part of a failing business isn't worth anything.   If you
>> buy this, you're essentially going to have to pick up scraps (which carry
>> baggage with them) and try to overcome that baggage.  Unless you can put a
>> hard number on the value of the going business I wouldn't consider it worth
>> anything.   And, one caution:  There is a temptation to treat the existing
>> customers (which may actually be the stylists, not the people getting their
>> hair cut/nails done) as an asset, but you have to realize that a tarnished
>> reputation is going to make everything more 

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[Mathew Howard]

I've seen it on a couple of radios that came back from customers.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker over
> it.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:
>
>> Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when it
>> was put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went into
>> dealing with their lack of quality on the product the only good news is it
>> failed before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4 to weak
>> with the bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t deploy. I
>> didn’t even know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4 force and
>> tried to test it.  Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just wondering if I
>> was lucky or if the sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on wrong often.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>> GogebicRange.net
>>
>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?
>>
>>
>>
>> How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Too much ventilation.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end
>> result
>> of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
>> morning.
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Keefe John]

You could talk to Dave @ Mercury Network(the ISP).  He owns salons in 
addition to his WISP.


Keefe

On 2/24/2016 5:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


How you pay yourself can depend on the type of corporate form you 
take. LLC that are pass through don't pay taxes and all income follows 
through to the owner's tax filing via a K1. I agree with forest in 
that you should count your salary, even though sometimes you may have 
to put it right back in. The other side of that is if you take 
"excess" pay make sure to record that on the books in a way you can 
pull that off in a presentation to a potential buyer.
You should keep forefront in mind that you must pay no more than what 
it is worth no matter what the present owners would like to get out of 
it.



On Wed, Feb 24, 2016, 3:40 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> wrote:


I started writing a long post about how to work through this
logically, but it sounds like you're already going down that path.

The thoughts that occurred to me for you to consider:

The business part of a failing business isn't worth anything.   If
you buy this, you're essentially going to have to pick up scraps
(which carry baggage with them) and try to overcome that baggage. 
Unless you can put a hard number on the value of the going

business I wouldn't consider it worth anything.   And, one
caution:  There is a temptation to treat the existing customers
(which may actually be the stylists, not the people getting their
hair cut/nails done) as an asset, but you have to realize that a
tarnished reputation is going to make everything more difficult
than it would be if you started fresh.   You have to ask yourself
if gaining the existing business is worth the pain. You may
actually decide that the business part of the business has a
negative value as a result.

Assuming the business part of the business has no value, you need
to ask yourself how much are the physical things you're buying
(i.e. the chairs, nail beds, etc.) worth.   That's probably all
you want to pay up front.  Paying extra for the 'idea' of a salon
seems silly.   Remember things haven't been maintained so some of
these are going to have to be replaced, maybe soon.   So you need
to look at the depreciated value (how much value they actually
have left) - taking it back to a wisp, if you buy a router which
lasts 5 years, 2.5 years in that router is only worth half as
much, quite possibly even less.  Consider that when valuating items.

Assuming you could come to a purchase price that was reasonable,
then, and only then should you look at the financials to see if
you can make it work, including a reasonable return on investment.
(Ok that sounded kinda wrong.  What I mean is: Don't over pay for
the assets.  Don't justify over paying for the assets just because
the business operation numbers (P) look good based on your best
guesses of costs.  Figure out what the assets are worth (including
the business part of the business), and use that for negotiations,
not any percieved potential future benefit.   That isn't what
you're paying for - you're paying for the assets.).

A bit of a note in relation to the above is to mention that if you
can make a business case for a business salon in your town, then
there's a good chance you could start a salon with or without
buying the existing business.   That's why I'm saying 'the
business part of the business is probably not worth much,
especially with a tarnished reputation'.

Once you get to the point of working through your business
operation numbers (P), there are a few caveats/suggestions:

1) YOU MUST PAY YOURSELVES.  This is important. Plan on paying
yourselves from day one.  Figure out what a reasonable pay rate is
and pay yourselves.  If you don't do this, you will never ever
make any money at this.  It's ok to escalate this with increasing
load.  For instance, when you start, you may only need a few hours
a week... but still pay yourselves.  One even worse gotcha is that
not paying yourself sometimes indicates to the IRS this isn't
intended as a going business and that isn't something you want to
have happen.   Ok, it's okay to put a bit of sweat equity into the
business at first, but very shortly, you should start paying
yourself for your time.

2) You must consider depreciation of equipment. You're going to
have to replace that equipment sometime, you need to plan for it,
and book for it. This needs to be put in your business plan from
day one.That equipment you purchased costs you on an ongoing
basis.   If your business plan doesn't account for replacing the
equipment at correct intervals, you will end up 7 years from now
with an even shoddier place which is worth less than 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Ken Hohhof]

I guess the salon would be a great advertising vehicle for the WISP.

From: Keefe John 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

You could talk to Dave @ Mercury Network(the ISP).  He owns salons in addition 
to his WISP.

Keefe


On 2/24/2016 5:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

  How you pay yourself can depend on the type of corporate form you take. LLC 
that are pass through don't pay taxes and all income follows through to the 
owner's tax filing via a K1. I agree with forest in that you should count your 
salary, even though sometimes you may have to put it right back in. The other 
side of that is if you take "excess" pay make sure to record that on the books 
in a way you can pull that off in a presentation to a potential buyer.
  You should keep forefront in mind that you must pay no more than what it is 
worth no matter what the present owners would like to get out of it. 



  On Wed, Feb 24, 2016, 3:40 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

I started writing a long post about how to work through this logically, but 
it sounds like you're already going down that path.


The thoughts that occurred to me for you to consider:


The business part of a failing business isn't worth anything.   If you buy 
this, you're essentially going to have to pick up scraps (which carry baggage 
with them) and try to overcome that baggage.  Unless you can put a hard number 
on the value of the going business I wouldn't consider it worth anything.   
And, one caution:  There is a temptation to treat the existing customers (which 
may actually be the stylists, not the people getting their hair cut/nails done) 
as an asset, but you have to realize that a tarnished reputation is going to 
make everything more difficult than it would be if you started fresh.   You 
have to ask yourself if gaining the existing business is worth the pain.   You 
may actually decide that the business part of the business has a negative value 
as a result.


Assuming the business part of the business has no value, you need to ask 
yourself how much are the physical things you're buying (i.e. the chairs, nail 
beds, etc.) worth.   That's probably all you want to pay up front.  Paying 
extra for the 'idea' of a salon seems silly.   Remember things haven't been 
maintained so some of these are going to have to be replaced, maybe soon.   So 
you need to look at the depreciated value (how much value they actually have 
left) - taking it back to a wisp, if you buy a router which lasts 5 years, 2.5 
years in that router is only worth half as much, quite possibly even less.  
Consider that when valuating items.


Assuming you could come to a purchase price that was reasonable, then, and 
only then should you look at the financials to see if you can make it work, 
including a reasonable return on investment.

(Ok that sounded kinda wrong.  What I mean is:  Don't over pay for the 
assets.  Don't justify over paying for the assets just because the business 
operation numbers (P) look good based on your best guesses of costs.  Figure 
out what the assets are worth (including the business part of the business), 
and use that for negotiations, not any percieved potential future benefit.   
That isn't what you're paying for - you're paying for the assets.). 


A bit of a note in relation to the above is to mention that if you can make 
a business case for a business salon in your town, then there's a good chance 
you could start a salon with or without buying the existing business.   That's 
why I'm saying 'the business part of the business is probably not worth much, 
especially with a tarnished reputation'.


Once you get to the point of working through your business operation 
numbers (P), there are a few caveats/suggestions:


1) YOU MUST PAY YOURSELVES.  This is important.  Plan on paying yourselves 
from day one.  Figure out what a reasonable pay rate is and pay yourselves.  If 
you don't do this, you will never ever make any money at this.  It's ok to 
escalate this with increasing load.  For instance, when you start, you may only 
need a few hours a week... but still pay yourselves.  One even worse gotcha is 
that not paying yourself sometimes indicates to the IRS this isn't intended as 
a going business and that isn't something you want to have happen.   Ok, it's 
okay to put a bit of sweat equity into the business at first, but very shortly, 
you should start paying yourself for your time.


2) You must consider depreciation of equipment.   You're going to have to 
replace that equipment sometime, you need to plan for it, and book for it.   
This needs to be put in your business plan from day one.That equipment you 
purchased costs you on an ongoing basis.   If your business plan doesn't 
account for replacing the equipment at correct intervals, you will end up 7 
years from now with an even shoddier place which is 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 PMP-450 antenna choices

[Stefan Englhardt]

The RF-Elements 100degree (-6db) works quite good for us.

It is a bit smaller than the Cambium 90 degree sector.

http://rfelements.com/assets/Uploads/Datasheet-Sector-Carrier-Class-5-17.pdf







- GENIAS INTERNET --   www.genias.net --

Stefan Englhardt Email:   s...@genias.net

Dr. Gesslerstr. 20   D-93051 Regensburg

Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9



Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Kurt Fankhauser
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Februar 2016 15:32
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 PMP-450 antenna choices



I am primarily using the KPP 120 degree sector and i am not happy with 
performance. I am using the Cambium 90 degree sector in one application and its 
NLOS and works very well. Just wondering if anyone else is having similar 
results to that.



On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:58 AM, timothy steele  > wrote:

If your going for Nlos I would try and stay away from 120. Even Ubnt will tell 
you they don't like 120



On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 3:02 PM Mathew Howard  > wrote:

Yeah, looking at the pattern in the spec sheet for the Cambium antenna, it 
looks to be about -10db at 120.



On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, George Skorup  > wrote:

All I have used is the Laird OEM antenna as well. The null-fill is nice. It is 
definitely a -6dB 90/-3dB 65. I have found that it rolls off sharply beyond 90.

Cambium claims >32dB F/B ratio. I know Mark @ Amplex has mentioned this before, 
short range SMs (like 1/2 mile or so) seem to get crappy downlink SNR. They are 
apparently hearing the opposite sector on the same frequency which points to 
the F/B ratio. I have seen this as well. I actually put up a post on the 
Cambium community about it last night.

On 2/23/2016 12:24 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

Sean,



Really? I was told the 90 degree cambium sector was actually a 65 degree sector 
so you using it at 120 degrees? I would assume there is at least a 6db 
difference between the center of the beamwidth and the outer edges at 120 
degrees.



On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Sean Heskett  > wrote:

I've only used the cambium one...works great.



You can actually use it as a 120* sector if you need to, you just loose 3db 
more than at the 90* point.





On Tuesday, February 23, 2016, Kurt Fankhauser  > wrote:

Has anyone used all three of these antenna choices for PMP450/3.65ghz ?



- KP 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector

- Cambium Stock 90 degree 3.65ghz slant sector

- Alpha Wireless 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector



And what was your thoughts on all of them? Did any perform worse or better than 
the other?

Re: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck

[Mike Hammett]

My dad has one similar to this one, if not the same. It has the same reach 
specs, I'm just not sure of the model number. It's definitely a 60(or 66)/34 

http://www.bigiron.com/NPPDAE8090.PDF 

It is VERY handy, but given its weight (I actually think ours weighs more than 
the one in the specs), it is a bit difficult to transport. His pickup can do 
it, but I prefer it when the semi is used to transport it. So much easier of a 
drive behind a semi vs. a 2500. Given it's weight, you need a CDL to move it, 
so that does limit when I can use it. I can't just decide to take it , I need 
to coordinate the transport. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Tushar Patel"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 4:29:36 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck 



We are considering buying trailer Mounted booms or bucket truck. 

Some roofs are just too hard to get up and we have lot of push up poles so to 
service them it would be lot easier with bucket trucks. 

So like this 

http://www.genielift.com/en/products/trailer-mounted-booms/tz50/ 

or 

just bucket trucks. 

Any suggestions? Any experience people can share. 

Tushar 

Re: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck

[Nate Burke]

How often do you need it?  We have a local rental shop that rents that 
exact unit for $300/day.  Does the cost of the unit outweigh just 
renting it when you need it.  I would definitely make some pads for the 
outrigger to go on, they are pretty small.  How skilled are your guys at 
backing up trailers?  That's the hardest thing with this one.


On 2/22/2016 4:29 PM, Tushar Patel wrote:


We are considering buying trailer Mounted booms or bucket truck.

Some roofs are just too hard to get up and we have lot of push up 
poles so to service them it would be lot easier with bucket trucks.


So like this

http://www.genielift.com/en/products/trailer-mounted-booms/tz50/

or

just bucket trucks.

Any suggestions? Any experience people can share.

Tushar

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 PMP-450 antenna choices

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I am primarily using the KPP 120 degree sector and i am not happy with
performance. I am using the Cambium 90 degree sector in one application and
its NLOS and works very well. Just wondering if anyone else is having
similar results to that.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:58 AM, timothy steele 
wrote:

> If your going for Nlos I would try and stay away from 120. Even Ubnt will
> tell you they don't like 120
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 3:02 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, looking at the pattern in the spec sheet for the Cambium antenna,
>> it looks to be about -10db at 120.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>>
>>> All I have used is the Laird OEM antenna as well. The null-fill is nice.
>>> It is definitely a -6dB 90/-3dB 65. I have found that it rolls off sharply
>>> beyond 90.
>>>
>>> Cambium claims >32dB F/B ratio. I know Mark @ Amplex has mentioned this
>>> before, short range SMs (like 1/2 mile or so) seem to get crappy downlink
>>> SNR. They are apparently hearing the opposite sector on the same frequency
>>> which points to the F/B ratio. I have seen this as well. I actually put up
>>> a post on the Cambium community about it last night.
>>>
>>> On 2/23/2016 12:24 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>>
>>> Sean,
>>>
>>> Really? I was told the 90 degree cambium sector was actually a 65 degree
>>> sector so you using it at 120 degrees? I would assume there is at least a
>>> 6db difference between the center of the beamwidth and the outer edges at
>>> 120 degrees.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 I've only used the cambium one...works great.

 You can actually use it as a 120* sector if you need to, you just loose
 3db more than at the 90* point.



 On Tuesday, February 23, 2016, Kurt Fankhauser <
 lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone used all three of these antenna choices for PMP450/3.65ghz
> ?
>
> - KP 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
> - Cambium Stock 90 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
> - Alpha Wireless 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
>
> And what was your thoughts on all of them? Did any perform worse or
> better than the other?
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>

[AFMUG] OT LENR Replicated again

[Chuck McCown]

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/

They have a cookbook now on how to prepare the fuel.  Rossi also has ended 
close to a one year run with independent third party verification.  That report 
is due soon.  

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[Josh Luthman]

Never saw it.  Future units have a heavy duty packaging tape sticker over
it.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 24, 2016 8:15 AM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

> Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when it
> was put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went into
> dealing with their lack of quality on the product the only good news is it
> failed before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4 to weak
> with the bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t deploy. I
> didn’t even know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4 force and
> tried to test it.  Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just wondering if I
> was lucky or if the sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on wrong often.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?
>
>
>
> How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p
>
> On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> Too much ventilation.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" 
> wrote:
>
> What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end
> result
> of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
> morning.
>
> Brandon
>

Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Well you guys caught that pretty fast. Wish we had back in summer when it was 
put up. I can’t say I am happy about the amount of work that went into dealing 
with their lack of quality on the product the only good news is it failed 
before it ever had a customer on it. We tested and found 2.4 to weak with the 
bare SMs. The Force units were not out yet so we didn’t deploy. I didn’t even 
know it has burned until we got our first new 2.4 force and tried to test it.  
Anyone else seen a similar issue? Just wondering if I was lucky or if the 
sticker / covers on the LEDs get put on wrong often.

 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 9:38 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Whats wrong with this picture?

 

How would the water get out without sufficient ventilation? :p

On Feb 23, 2016 9:23 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

Too much ventilation.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 10:05 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

What's wrong with this picture. Other than the fact that it's the end result
of a half day of tower work and the unit was 100 feet in the air this
morning.

Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[Mike Hammett]

They didn't run with our recommendation to make the radomes the same? 

Did the make the mounts the same? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:42:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the sub-reflector? 
I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed about selling just the 450d 
radome kit. Refusing to sell something they make seems pretty stupid. The 
sub-reflector is just the front of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into 
the front of the radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip 
off the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few. 

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated incorrectly, 
so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no worky for me. We're 
doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in 
mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet. 

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several years. It 
just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and heavy wet snow, which 
we're about to get here tomorrow damnit! 


On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote: 




Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I just cant risk 
another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I tried to drum up enough 
interest in Chucks condom but not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a 
response from Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. 
Although we did confirm they would fit / work. Kind of pissed me off since I 
was told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110. Now they 
have it but won’t sell it. 
I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan since we 
started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that they were not going 
to give us radomes we backed off the install schedule for the second links. So 
now we have to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I 
should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. 
That was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them. 

Best regards 
Brandon Yuchasz 
GogebicRange.net 
www.gogebicrange.net 

From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 

We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's. 

Would be nice if they could come up with a sync-over-power variant of the 200. 

. or let us order the 450d radome w/ sub-reflector element. The Force110 
and 450d is the same reflector.. and feed. 

Just sayin. 

On 2/23/2016 8:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 


Why go through the effort of replacing them? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Feb 23, 2016 9:31 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" < li...@gogebicrange.net > wrote: 


Not exactly what you are asking but we have done a lot of 10 to 12 mile links 
with the stock force 110 and got full modulation. I have not put up the force 
200 yet but plan to start replacing all the force 110 links with them as soon 
as the weather warms a bit. The old 110s will become backup links. 

Best regards, 
Brandon Yuchasz 
GogebicRange.net 
www.gogebicrange.net 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joseph Marsh 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 5:32 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Thanks for the info Mathew ... I don't like more than 10 miles. But was curious 
at 20 

On Feb 23, 2016 5:28 PM, "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Yeah - 40 miles appears to be the max for ePMP. Realistically, it *should* be 
possible to get full modulation at 8 miles with Force 200's, but at 20 miles, 
you're going to want bigger dishes. 



On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 







As a non smart-ass answer, there are probably some timing constraints that will 
limit the distance before the RF will, assuming LOS. 






From: Chuck McCown 

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:47 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Force 200 Ptp distance 






I think earth curvature will probably be the limiting factor. 






From: Joseph Marsh 

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:45 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Force 200 Ptp distance 



What is the max distance for a force 200 Ptp link? 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Cambium does not have a part number assigned to the radome w/ sub reflector. So 
no distributors can purchase them and sell them to us. I agree its seems silly 
not to sell them but that’s what the sales reps are getting from Cambium and as 
I mentioned then didn’t return my calls or emails asking about it. I am 
generally a fan of Cambiums processes and products but this whole think left a 
bad taste in my mouth. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

 

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the sub-reflector? 
I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed about selling just the 450d 
radome kit. Refusing to sell something they make seems pretty stupid. The 
sub-reflector is just the front of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into 
the front of the radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip 
off the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few.

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated incorrectly, 
so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no worky for me. We're 
doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in 
mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet.

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several years. It 
just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and heavy wet snow, which 
we're about to get here tomorrow damnit!

On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I just cant risk 
another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I tried to drum up enough 
interest in Chucks condom but not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a 
response from Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. 
Although we did confirm they would fit / work.  Kind of pissed me off since I 
was told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110. Now they 
have it but won’t sell it. 

I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan since we 
started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that they were not going 
to give us radomes we backed off the install schedule for the second links.  So 
now we have to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I 
should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. 
That was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them.

 

Best regards

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

 

Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's.

Would be nice if they could come up with a sync-over-power variant of the 200.

. or let us order the 450d radome w/ sub-reflector element. The Force110 
and 450d is the same reflector.. and feed.

Just sayin.

On 2/23/2016 8:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why go through the effort of replacing them?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 23, 2016 9:31 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

Not exactly what you are asking but we have done a lot of 10 to 12 mile links 
with the stock force 110 and got full modulation. I have not put up the force 
200 yet but plan to start replacing all the force 110 links with them as soon 
as the weather warms a bit. The old 110s will become backup links.

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Marsh
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 5:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

 

Thanks for the info Mathew ... I don't like more than 10 miles. But was curious 
at 20

On Feb 23, 2016 5:28 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah - 40 miles appears to be the max for ePMP. Realistically, it *should* be 
possible to get full modulation at 8 miles with Force 200's, but at 20 miles, 
you're going to want bigger dishes.

 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

As a non smart-ass answer, there are probably some timing constraints that will 
limit the distance before the RF will, assuming LOS.  

 

From: Chuck McCown   

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:47 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Force 200 Ptp distance

 

I think earth curvature will probably be the 

Re: [AFMUG] trailer Mounted Booms or Bucket truck

[can...@believewireless.net]

Avoid bucket vans and stick with trucks.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> Using those on soft dirt in yards would make me nervous.
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
> > I've used one like that.  You need more room to maneuver at times and the
> > bucket bounces more than it would on a truck but it works.
> >
> >
> > Tushar Patel wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> We are considering buying trailer Mounted booms or bucket truck.
> >>
> >> Some roofs are just too hard to get up and we have lot of push up poles
> so
> >> to service them it would be lot easier with bucket trucks.
> >>
> >> So like this
> >>
> >> http://www.genielift.com/en/products/trailer-mounted-booms/tz50/
> >>
> >> or
> >>
> >> just bucket trucks.
> >>
> >> Any suggestions? Any experience people can share.
> >>
> >> Tushar
> >>
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 PMP-450 antenna choices

[timothy steele]

If your going for Nlos I would try and stay away from 120. Even Ubnt will
tell you they don't like 120

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 3:02 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Yeah, looking at the pattern in the spec sheet for the Cambium antenna, it
> looks to be about -10db at 120.
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
>> All I have used is the Laird OEM antenna as well. The null-fill is nice.
>> It is definitely a -6dB 90/-3dB 65. I have found that it rolls off sharply
>> beyond 90.
>>
>> Cambium claims >32dB F/B ratio. I know Mark @ Amplex has mentioned this
>> before, short range SMs (like 1/2 mile or so) seem to get crappy downlink
>> SNR. They are apparently hearing the opposite sector on the same frequency
>> which points to the F/B ratio. I have seen this as well. I actually put up
>> a post on the Cambium community about it last night.
>>
>> On 2/23/2016 12:24 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>
>> Sean,
>>
>> Really? I was told the 90 degree cambium sector was actually a 65 degree
>> sector so you using it at 120 degrees? I would assume there is at least a
>> 6db difference between the center of the beamwidth and the outer edges at
>> 120 degrees.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> I've only used the cambium one...works great.
>>>
>>> You can actually use it as a 120* sector if you need to, you just loose
>>> 3db more than at the 90* point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 23, 2016, Kurt Fankhauser <
>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Has anyone used all three of these antenna choices for PMP450/3.65ghz ?

 - KP 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
 - Cambium Stock 90 degree 3.65ghz slant sector
 - Alpha Wireless 120 degree 3.65ghz slant sector

 And what was your thoughts on all of them? Did any perform worse or
 better than the other?



>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance

[Mike Hammett]

I haven't done any PtP links that aren't Jirous dishes lately (even on my radio 
upgrades, I upgrade the dish), but I hadn't thought about radomes for them. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 10:42:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Seriously, no reseller will sell you just the 450d radome w/ the sub-reflector? 
I don't understand why Cambium would be hard assed about selling just the 450d 
radome kit. Refusing to sell something they make seems pretty stupid. The 
sub-reflector is just the front of the 110 wire suspended kit and snaps into 
the front of the radome, as I'm sure you're aware. If you wanted, you could rip 
off the suspenders. I've accidentally broken a few. 

We haven't bought any 450d's yet. The antenna gain is calculated incorrectly, 
so the DFS band Tx power is like 10dB low, which means no worky for me. We're 
doing a lot of 5.4GHz now and we're not going to run the 14.1.2 beta builds in 
mass. So yeah, I'm just not going there yet. 

We haven't done any PTP links without radomes for the past several years. It 
just makes sense. Not only for wind loading, but ice and heavy wet snow, which 
we're about to get here tomorrow damnit! 


On 2/23/2016 9:03 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote: 




Yep you guys hit the nail on the head. It’s the radome for us. I just cant risk 
another drop due to ice / snow packing in a dish. I tried to drum up enough 
interest in Chucks condom but not enough jumped on board. I didn’t even get a 
response from Cambium when I asked about the 450d radomes becoming available. 
Although we did confirm they would fit / work. Kind of pissed me off since I 
was told a year ago at animal farm they would have one for the 110. Now they 
have it but won’t sell it. 
I don’t mind having redundant links in place. Its been the plan since we 
started putting up the 110’s. When it became obvious that they were not going 
to give us radomes we backed off the install schedule for the second links. So 
now we have to deploy the 200’s to get the radomes but have to give up GPS. I 
should have just deployed the microtik dishes with Eptp and radomes to start. 
That was the plan before I was told the force 110 would have them. 

Best regards 
Brandon Yuchasz 
GogebicRange.net 
www.gogebicrange.net 

From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:41 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Wouldn't it be way cheaper and easier to use Chuck's condom radome? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Feb 23, 2016 9:38 PM, "George Skorup" < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 

We've been putting radomes on ALL of the Force200's. 

Would be nice if they could come up with a sync-over-power variant of the 200. 

. or let us order the 450d radome w/ sub-reflector element. The Force110 
and 450d is the same reflector.. and feed. 

Just sayin. 

On 2/23/2016 8:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 


Why go through the effort of replacing them? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Feb 23, 2016 9:31 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz" < li...@gogebicrange.net > wrote: 


Not exactly what you are asking but we have done a lot of 10 to 12 mile links 
with the stock force 110 and got full modulation. I have not put up the force 
200 yet but plan to start replacing all the force 110 links with them as soon 
as the weather warms a bit. The old 110s will become backup links. 

Best regards, 
Brandon Yuchasz 
GogebicRange.net 
www.gogebicrange.net 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joseph Marsh 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 5:32 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Force 200 Ptp distance 

Thanks for the info Mathew ... I don't like more than 10 miles. But was curious 
at 20 

On Feb 23, 2016 5:28 PM, "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Yeah - 40 miles appears to be the max for ePMP. Realistically, it *should* be 
possible to get full modulation at 8 miles with Force 200's, but at 20 miles, 
you're going to want bigger dishes. 



On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 







As a non smart-ass answer, there are probably some timing constraints that will 
limit the distance before the RF will, assuming LOS. 






From: Chuck McCown 

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:47 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Force 200 Ptp distance 






I think earth curvature will probably be the limiting factor. 






From: Joseph Marsh 

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:45 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Force 200 Ptp distance 



What is the max distance for a force 200 Ptp link? 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Lewis Bergman]

How you pay yourself can depend on the type of corporate form you take. LLC
that are pass through don't pay taxes and all income follows through to the
owner's tax filing via a K1. I agree with forest in that you should count
your salary, even though sometimes you may have to put it right back in.
The other side of that is if you take "excess" pay make sure to record that
on the books in a way you can pull that off in a presentation to a
potential buyer.
You should keep forefront in mind that you must pay no more than what it is
worth no matter what the present owners would like to get out of it.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016, 3:40 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I started writing a long post about how to work through this logically,
> but it sounds like you're already going down that path.
>
> The thoughts that occurred to me for you to consider:
>
> The business part of a failing business isn't worth anything.   If you buy
> this, you're essentially going to have to pick up scraps (which carry
> baggage with them) and try to overcome that baggage.  Unless you can put a
> hard number on the value of the going business I wouldn't consider it worth
> anything.   And, one caution:  There is a temptation to treat the existing
> customers (which may actually be the stylists, not the people getting their
> hair cut/nails done) as an asset, but you have to realize that a tarnished
> reputation is going to make everything more difficult than it would be if
> you started fresh.   You have to ask yourself if gaining the existing
> business is worth the pain.   You may actually decide that the business
> part of the business has a negative value as a result.
>
> Assuming the business part of the business has no value, you need to ask
> yourself how much are the physical things you're buying (i.e. the chairs,
> nail beds, etc.) worth.   That's probably all you want to pay up front.
> Paying extra for the 'idea' of a salon seems silly.   Remember things
> haven't been maintained so some of these are going to have to be replaced,
> maybe soon.   So you need to look at the depreciated value (how much value
> they actually have left) - taking it back to a wisp, if you buy a router
> which lasts 5 years, 2.5 years in that router is only worth half as much,
> quite possibly even less.  Consider that when valuating items.
>
> Assuming you could come to a purchase price that was reasonable, then, and
> only then should you look at the financials to see if you can make it work,
> including a reasonable return on investment.
> (Ok that sounded kinda wrong.  What I mean is:  Don't over pay for the
> assets.  Don't justify over paying for the assets just because the business
> operation numbers (P) look good based on your best guesses of costs.
> Figure out what the assets are worth (including the business part of the
> business), and use that for negotiations, not any percieved potential
> future benefit.   That isn't what you're paying for - you're paying for the
> assets.).
>
> A bit of a note in relation to the above is to mention that if you can
> make a business case for a business salon in your town, then there's a good
> chance you could start a salon with or without buying the existing
> business.   That's why I'm saying 'the business part of the business is
> probably not worth much, especially with a tarnished reputation'.
>
> Once you get to the point of working through your business operation
> numbers (P), there are a few caveats/suggestions:
>
> 1) YOU MUST PAY YOURSELVES.  This is important.  Plan on paying yourselves
> from day one.  Figure out what a reasonable pay rate is and pay
> yourselves.  If you don't do this, you will never ever make any money at
> this.  It's ok to escalate this with increasing load.  For instance, when
> you start, you may only need a few hours a week... but still pay
> yourselves.  One even worse gotcha is that not paying yourself sometimes
> indicates to the IRS this isn't intended as a going business and that isn't
> something you want to have happen.   Ok, it's okay to put a bit of sweat
> equity into the business at first, but very shortly, you should start
> paying yourself for your time.
>
> 2) You must consider depreciation of equipment.   You're going to have to
> replace that equipment sometime, you need to plan for it, and book for
> it.   This needs to be put in your business plan from day one.That
> equipment you purchased costs you on an ongoing basis.   If your business
> plan doesn't account for replacing the equipment at correct intervals, you
> will end up 7 years from now with an even shoddier place which is worth
> less than you paid for it.
>
> 3) Consider an exit strategy.  How can you position yourself to be able to
> sell this for *more* money than you paid for it a few years from now.
>
> 4) If "your woman" plans on being a stylist there, consider treating her
> from a financial point EXACTLY like any of the other stylists, 

Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I started writing a long post about how to work through this logically, but
it sounds like you're already going down that path.

The thoughts that occurred to me for you to consider:

The business part of a failing business isn't worth anything.   If you buy
this, you're essentially going to have to pick up scraps (which carry
baggage with them) and try to overcome that baggage.  Unless you can put a
hard number on the value of the going business I wouldn't consider it worth
anything.   And, one caution:  There is a temptation to treat the existing
customers (which may actually be the stylists, not the people getting their
hair cut/nails done) as an asset, but you have to realize that a tarnished
reputation is going to make everything more difficult than it would be if
you started fresh.   You have to ask yourself if gaining the existing
business is worth the pain.   You may actually decide that the business
part of the business has a negative value as a result.

Assuming the business part of the business has no value, you need to ask
yourself how much are the physical things you're buying (i.e. the chairs,
nail beds, etc.) worth.   That's probably all you want to pay up front.
Paying extra for the 'idea' of a salon seems silly.   Remember things
haven't been maintained so some of these are going to have to be replaced,
maybe soon.   So you need to look at the depreciated value (how much value
they actually have left) - taking it back to a wisp, if you buy a router
which lasts 5 years, 2.5 years in that router is only worth half as much,
quite possibly even less.  Consider that when valuating items.

Assuming you could come to a purchase price that was reasonable, then, and
only then should you look at the financials to see if you can make it work,
including a reasonable return on investment.
(Ok that sounded kinda wrong.  What I mean is:  Don't over pay for the
assets.  Don't justify over paying for the assets just because the business
operation numbers (P) look good based on your best guesses of costs.
Figure out what the assets are worth (including the business part of the
business), and use that for negotiations, not any percieved potential
future benefit.   That isn't what you're paying for - you're paying for the
assets.).

A bit of a note in relation to the above is to mention that if you can make
a business case for a business salon in your town, then there's a good
chance you could start a salon with or without buying the existing
business.   That's why I'm saying 'the business part of the business is
probably not worth much, especially with a tarnished reputation'.

Once you get to the point of working through your business operation
numbers (P), there are a few caveats/suggestions:

1) YOU MUST PAY YOURSELVES.  This is important.  Plan on paying yourselves
from day one.  Figure out what a reasonable pay rate is and pay
yourselves.  If you don't do this, you will never ever make any money at
this.  It's ok to escalate this with increasing load.  For instance, when
you start, you may only need a few hours a week... but still pay
yourselves.  One even worse gotcha is that not paying yourself sometimes
indicates to the IRS this isn't intended as a going business and that isn't
something you want to have happen.   Ok, it's okay to put a bit of sweat
equity into the business at first, but very shortly, you should start
paying yourself for your time.

2) You must consider depreciation of equipment.   You're going to have to
replace that equipment sometime, you need to plan for it, and book for
it.   This needs to be put in your business plan from day one.That
equipment you purchased costs you on an ongoing basis.   If your business
plan doesn't account for replacing the equipment at correct intervals, you
will end up 7 years from now with an even shoddier place which is worth
less than you paid for it.

3) Consider an exit strategy.  How can you position yourself to be able to
sell this for *more* money than you paid for it a few years from now.

4) If "your woman" plans on being a stylist there, consider treating her
from a financial point EXACTLY like any of the other stylists, at least for
her stylist work.  That is, charge her rent for her station, etc. etc.
etc.  That way she will be pulling an income from the business just like if
she was a stylist elsewhere.  This will produce revenue for the business
which it will need to pay the rent and also her salary for management
duties.

I think that's all I can think of for now...

I do have one other reference I point ANYONE starting a business to, and
thats a book/website called "business model generation".   It contains
tools to help people work through a successful business model.  If I was
doing what you're considering, I'd work through this process considering
your customers as your stylists (which seems to be the normal model) which
means the services (aka value proposition) you provide to your customers
are things like providing a