Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Im a team player and WB/Mccowntech has always treated me like a champ, so
Im willing to help you off that cash... I mean assist you with verifying
that transaction.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Gosh, you would do that for me?  What a guy!
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 3:51 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
> If you send me the card numbers and the three code off the back of the
> card I can go ahead and check to see how the transaction will turn out, but
> im pretty sure it will come back over limit when you try to run it
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> You may have a hard time getting a "small business" card that provides 2%
>> cashback for that high of a limit. These are designed for businesses that
>> spend less than $50k/month on a credit card. That is the one good thing
>> about AMEX, once you have built a reputation with them, there really is no
>> limit on their card.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 1:46 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>
>> good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
>> $100k per month to our corp amex
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and
>>> then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up
>>> the dough.
>>>
>>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
>>> *To:* af 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.
>>>
>>> I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
>>> and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
>>> freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
>>> anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
>>> occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
>>> redeem for values over 2 cents per point.
>>>
>>> With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
>>> which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
>>> maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
>>> theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
>>> theatres.
>>>
>>> Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
>>> your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
>>> spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
>>> this making sense on a regular basis.
>>> On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the
> miles you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of 
> miles?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card
> for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone
> bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2%
> cashback on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get
> checks mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game
> always seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> S Corp
>
> *From:* Jason Wilson 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
> and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>
>
> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>  to obtain cash and
> purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
>  balances with the
> proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting
> , which is illegal under
> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
> necessary, stop it.
>
> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a
> bank 

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

Now to figure out how to economically do 2250+ ft (about 700m) of somewhat
flexible duct through a forest...



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a really
> long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff in
> dirt it will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers and
> cheap removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough  wrote:
>
>> what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the
>> ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg
>> that would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both
>> through.
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
>>> conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
>>> and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
>>> have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
>>> crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
>>> twice.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
>>> sending a loud 60 cycle tone.
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>
>>> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
>>> code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
>>> trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
>>> possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
>>> be coming from.
>>>
>>> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
>>> output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
>>> back to normal 46-48VDC will work.
>>>
>>> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
>>> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.

 *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

 It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
 fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
 trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
 bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
 particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
 cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

 With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
 75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
 be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.

 Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
 might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
 shading.

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince
 > wrote:

 For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
 probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


 bp
 


 On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

 Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
 link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
 on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC
 power, a router and other network equipment is located.

 We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber
 and a small NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the
 far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC patch cable
 bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

 It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and
 voltage drop calculations for 18-2 cable that we can
 get away with a 56VDC 

[AFMUG] Crouch, Idaho

[Eric Kuhnke]

Here's what the 4th of July looks like for your typical western state rural
WISP customers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT8XxXXi7rk=desktop

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber toolbox

[Eric Kuhnke]

Klein tool backpack and two small multi-compartment organizers (like the
type you see for fly fishing) that hold essential small stuff..

Pelican 1510 hard case with fusion splicer and its accessories.

Stuff like the cleaver and fiber prep gear lives in either the backpack or
the 1510 depending on how many other non-fiber tools are in the backpack.

https://www.google.com/search?q=klein+tool+backpack=100=firefox-b=lnms=isch=X=0ahUKEwjwyKeBzODNAhVRxGMKHZBmBawQ_AUICSgC=1600=1095

https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-1510-000-110-Carry-Pluck-Black/dp/B0002SKHIK

For size reference, the Pelican 1510 is the max normal size allowed for
carry on luggage.


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have a recommendation for something that has worked well for
> you? I'm wanting something with space for supplies as well as basic tools.
> Pretty much everything I've used so far just has one main compartment for
> the tools, I'd like something a bit more structured.

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa A5c Range

[Rory Conaway]

I don't think it's out yet.  Depending on the sector antenna and what 
modulation levels you need, you should be able to get 2-5 miles with the C5.  
When the C5c comes out where you can use a bigger antenna, range won't be an 
issue.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 3:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mimosa A5c Range

Anyone deployed the A5c sector yet?  What kind of range are you getting for C5 
SM's?  The short range has always held me back.

[AFMUG] Fiber toolbox

[Jason McKemie]

Does anyone have a recommendation for something that has worked well for
you? I'm wanting something with space for supplies as well as basic tools.
Pretty much everything I've used so far just has one main compartment for
the tools, I'd like something a bit more structured.

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Ken Hohhof]

So far it seems like 14.1.2 for the win.

Of course it’s hard to say for sure a problem is fixed unless you first find a 
way to reliably reproduce it.


From: George Skorup 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no 
SM sessions

Stupid things meaning SMs losing session randomly. SMs failing to register and 
getting stuck 'out of range'. APs reporting no sync when clearly there's sync 
and all SMs are still registered. Sync drifting. And then DFS/LBT madness. 
Never had an AP go MIA though.

Do you have any other Canopy radios co-located with your problem AP? On the 
same L2 segment? If you see it again, check the Layer 2 Neighbors list and see 
if your vanished AP is still spitting out LLDP messages.

You have a SyncInjector powering the AP? Does anything look different with that 
port's current consumption? Before, during, after? Compared to other radios?

Let us know if it happens again on 14.1.2. This is really interesting to me. If 
it's a software crash, then obviously the hardware watchdog should reset it... 
unless it developed a h/w issue. Cap, resistor or diode took a surge maybe? 
Like the stuck in default plug mode that the older FSK radios are infamous for.


On 7/6/2016 9:09 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Well, “stupid things start happening” seems apt.  Maybe it just didn’t cause 
a watchdog reset.  Like the stupid people who still manage to dress themselves, 
drive cars, vote, and generally defy Darwin.

  Power cycling it via the Packetflux POE would briefly bring it back, but only 
until SMs started registering.  If we logged in during that timeframe and 
changed the config so that SMs would not register, then it would stay up.

  This same AP screwed up last Sunday morning for a couple hours, 
intermittently up and down until it started working again on its own.


  From: George Skorup 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if 
no SM sessions

  It could be related to the 13.x FPGA memory controller bug, but I haven't 
seen this specific problem on dozens of APs. I definitely know the memory bug 
when I see it because stupid things start happening and the AP has to be 
rebooted. But the AP becoming completely unresponsive while the ethernet 
statistics all look fine is not one of them. Anything is possible though.

  If it happens again even on 14.1.2, I would try to bounce the ethernet link 
and see if that does anything. I have seen a lot of that especially with 
MikroTik + Canopy. Fairly frequent with P9 and P10 FSK APs. Chuck's surge 
suppressors seem to add to the problem, but I can live with that.

  Also, I know that I'm getting about 20 volts at the radios on a couple 
clusters that are on ~300 feet of cable, SyncInjector fed by a 24v regulated 
power supply with the pot set at 25 volts (due to UBNT radios on shorter runs). 
The 450 APs seem to handle it fine.


  On 7/6/2016 8:15 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe I.T) wrote:

I’d also make sure you have enough power getting up the cable to drive it.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2016 9:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive,doesn't happen if 
no SM sessions

 

OK, I just upgraded the AP to 14.1.2 and so far, so good.  SMs next.

 

 

From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if 
no SM sessions

 

i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release) 

 

if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that 
you are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client is 
launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?

 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has started 
intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access GUI, 
doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP nor the 
switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU is going to sleep 
or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I don't see anything in 
the Event Log though.

We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought 
maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the license 
key and still see the problem.

The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to 
something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only once 
SMs start registering.

I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[George Skorup]

Stupid things meaning SMs losing session randomly. SMs failing to 
register and getting stuck 'out of range'. APs reporting no sync when 
clearly there's sync and all SMs are still registered. Sync drifting. 
And then DFS/LBT madness. Never had an AP go MIA though.


Do you have any other Canopy radios co-located with your problem AP? On 
the same L2 segment? If you see it again, check the Layer 2 Neighbors 
list and see if your vanished AP is still spitting out LLDP messages.


You have a SyncInjector powering the AP? Does anything look different 
with that port's current consumption? Before, during, after? Compared to 
other radios?


Let us know if it happens again on 14.1.2. This is really interesting to 
me. If it's a software crash, then obviously the hardware watchdog 
should reset it... unless it developed a h/w issue. Cap, resistor or 
diode took a surge maybe? Like the stuck in default plug mode that the 
older FSK radios are infamous for.


On 7/6/2016 9:09 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Well, “stupid things start happening” seems apt.  Maybe it just didn’t 
cause a watchdog reset.  Like the stupid people who still manage to 
dress themselves, drive cars, vote, and generally defy Darwin.
Power cycling it via the Packetflux POE would briefly bring it back, 
but only until SMs started registering.  If we logged in during that 
timeframe and changed the config so that SMs would not register, then 
it would stay up.
This same AP screwed up last Sunday morning for a couple hours, 
intermittently up and down until it started working again on its own.

*From:* George Skorup 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't 
happen if no SM sessions
It could be related to the 13.x FPGA memory controller bug, but I 
haven't seen this specific problem on dozens of APs. I definitely know 
the memory bug when I see it because stupid things start happening and 
the AP has to be rebooted. But the AP becoming completely unresponsive 
while the ethernet statistics all look fine is not one of them. 
Anything is possible though.


If it happens again even on 14.1.2, I would try to bounce the ethernet 
link and see if that does anything. I have seen a lot of that 
especially with MikroTik + Canopy. Fairly frequent with P9 and P10 FSK 
APs. Chuck's surge suppressors seem to add to the problem, but I can 
live with that.


Also, I know that I'm getting about 20 volts at the radios on a couple 
clusters that are on ~300 feet of cable, SyncInjector fed by a 24v 
regulated power supply with the pot set at 25 volts (due to UBNT 
radios on shorter runs). The 450 APs seem to handle it fine.


On 7/6/2016 8:15 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe I.T) wrote:


I’d also make sure you have enough power getting up the cable to 
drive it.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, July 7, 2016 9:34 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive,doesn't 
happen if no SM sessions


OK, I just upgraded the AP to 14.1.2 and so far, so good.  SMs next.

*From:*Sean Heskett 

*Sent:*Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't 
happen if no SM sessions


i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable 
release)


if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure 
that you are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or 
some client is launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has 
started intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side 
(can't access GUI, doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet 
problem, but neither the AP nor the switch shows any errors or 
events.  It is more like the CPU is going to sleep or something, but 
the Ethernet chip is still active.  I don't see anything in the Event 
Log though.


We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I 
thought maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I 
applied the license key and still see the problem.


The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code 
to something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the 
problem.  Only once SMs start registering.


I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses 
more power when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting 
enough voltage.


But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium 
finally released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the 
firmware though, unless there is some reason to believe what I am 
seeing is a firmware bug. Otherwise I am just adding to the confusion.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a really
long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff in
dirt it will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers and
cheap removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough  wrote:

> what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the ground
> as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg that
> would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both
> through.
>
> On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>
>> Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
>> conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
>> and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
>> have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
>> crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
>> twice.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown > > wrote:
>>
>> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
>> sending a loud 60 cycle tone.
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>
>> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
>> code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
>> trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
>> possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
>> be coming from.
>>
>> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
>> output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
>> back to normal 46-48VDC will work.
>>
>> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
>> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince > > wrote:
>>
>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>
>>> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
>>> fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
>>> trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
>>> bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
>>> particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
>>> cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.
>>>
>>> With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
>>> 75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
>>> be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.
>>>
>>> Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
>>> might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
>>> shading.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
>>> probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>>
>>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
>>> link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
>>> on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC
>>> power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>>
>>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber
>>> and a small NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the
>>> far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC patch cable
>>> bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>>
>>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and
>>> voltage drop calculations for 18-2 cable that we can
>>> get away with a 56VDC power supply at the power
>>> source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the
>>> receiving end, which will be fed into a DC-DC
>>> converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for
>>> the radio.
>>>
>>> If you had to run 600-700m of 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Roland Houin]

we had a similar situation, although we never lost communication with the ap.
eventually traced to a customer's router (damaged by lightning?).
setting sm's to nat mode allowed us to narrow down to specific cust..
 
Roland
 
> Well, “stupid things start happening” seems apt. Maybe it just didn’t cause awatchdog reset. Like the stupid people who still manage to dress themselves,drive cars, vote, and generally defy Darwin.Power cycling it via the Packetflux POE would briefly bring it back, but onlyuntil SMs started registering. If we logged in during that timeframe andchanged the config so that SMs would not register, then it would stayup.This same AP screwed up last Sunday morning for a couple hours, intermittentlyup and down until it started working again on its own.From: George SkorupSent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:40 PMTo: af@afmug.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if noSM sessions
It could be related to the 13.x FPGA memory controller bug, but I haven't seenthis specific problem on dozens of APs. I definitely know the memory bug when Isee it because stupid things start happening and the AP has to be rebooted. Butthe AP becoming completely unresponsive while the ethernet statistics all lookfine is not one of them. Anything is possible though.If it happens again even on 14.1.2, I would try to bounce the ethernet link andsee if that does anything. I have seen a lot of that especially with MikroTik +Canopy. Fairly frequent with P9 and P10 FSK APs. Chuck's surge suppressors seemto add to the problem, but I can live with that.Also, I know that I'm getting about 20 volts at the radios on a couple clustersthat are on ~300 feet of cable, SyncInjector fed by a 24v regulated power
supply with the pot set at 25 volts (due to UBNT radios on shorter runs). The450 APs seem to handle it fine.On 7/6/2016 8:15 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe I.T) wrote:I’d also make sure you have enough power getting up the cable to drive it.From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken HohhofSent: Thursday, July 7, 2016 9:34 AMTo: af@afmug.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive,doesn't happen if no SMsessionsOK, I just upgraded the AP to 14.1.2 and so far, so good. SMs next.From: Sean HeskettSent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PMTo: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if noSM sessionsi would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release)if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that you arenot somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client is launchinga DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has startedintermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access GUI,doesn't pass traffic). I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP nor theswitch shows any errors or events. It is more like the CPU is going to sleep or
something, but the Ethernet chip is still active. I don't see anything in theEvent Log though.We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought maybethat was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the license key andstill see the problem.The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code tosomething we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem. Only onceSMs start registering.I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more powerwhen actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough voltage.But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium finallyreleased 14.1.2 official. I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware though, unlessthere is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a firmware bug. Otherwise I
am just adding to the confusion.<

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Trey Scarborough]

what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the 
ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 
18awg that would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and 
pull both through.


On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:

Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
twice.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
sending a loud 60 cycle tone.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
be coming from.

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
back to normal 46-48VDC will work.

AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince > wrote:

Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



bp


On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.

Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
shading.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince
> wrote:

For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


bp



On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC
power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber
and a small NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the
far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC patch cable
bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and
voltage drop calculations for 18-2 cable that we can
get away with a 56VDC power supply at the power
source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the
receiving end, which will be fed into a DC-DC
converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for
the radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors
through a forest, how would you do it? SJOOW type
cable may not hold up over a long enough time. Ideally
something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be
much less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a
factor.

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, “stupid things start happening” seems apt.  Maybe it just didn’t cause a 
watchdog reset.  Like the stupid people who still manage to dress themselves, 
drive cars, vote, and generally defy Darwin.

Power cycling it via the Packetflux POE would briefly bring it back, but only 
until SMs started registering.  If we logged in during that timeframe and 
changed the config so that SMs would not register, then it would stay up.

This same AP screwed up last Sunday morning for a couple hours, intermittently 
up and down until it started working again on its own.


From: George Skorup 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no 
SM sessions

It could be related to the 13.x FPGA memory controller bug, but I haven't seen 
this specific problem on dozens of APs. I definitely know the memory bug when I 
see it because stupid things start happening and the AP has to be rebooted. But 
the AP becoming completely unresponsive while the ethernet statistics all look 
fine is not one of them. Anything is possible though.

If it happens again even on 14.1.2, I would try to bounce the ethernet link and 
see if that does anything. I have seen a lot of that especially with MikroTik + 
Canopy. Fairly frequent with P9 and P10 FSK APs. Chuck's surge suppressors seem 
to add to the problem, but I can live with that.

Also, I know that I'm getting about 20 volts at the radios on a couple clusters 
that are on ~300 feet of cable, SyncInjector fed by a 24v regulated power 
supply with the pot set at 25 volts (due to UBNT radios on shorter runs). The 
450 APs seem to handle it fine.


On 7/6/2016 8:15 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe I.T) wrote:

  I’d also make sure you have enough power getting up the cable to drive it.

   

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
  Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2016 9:34 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive,doesn't happen if no 
SM sessions

   

  OK, I just upgraded the AP to 14.1.2 and so far, so good.  SMs next.

   

   

  From: Sean Heskett 

  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if 
no SM sessions

   

  i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release) 

   

  if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that you 
are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client is 
launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?

   

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

  I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has started 
intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access GUI, 
doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP nor the 
switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU is going to sleep 
or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I don't see anything in 
the Event Log though.

  We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought 
maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the license 
key and still see the problem.

  The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to 
something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only once 
SMs start registering.

  I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more power 
when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough voltage.

  But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium finally 
released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware though, unless 
there is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a firmware bug. Otherwise I 
am just adding to the confusion. 

   

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[George Skorup]

It could be related to the 13.x FPGA memory controller bug, but I 
haven't seen this specific problem on dozens of APs. I definitely know 
the memory bug when I see it because stupid things start happening and 
the AP has to be rebooted. But the AP becoming completely unresponsive 
while the ethernet statistics all look fine is not one of them. Anything 
is possible though.


If it happens again even on 14.1.2, I would try to bounce the ethernet 
link and see if that does anything. I have seen a lot of that especially 
with MikroTik + Canopy. Fairly frequent with P9 and P10 FSK APs. Chuck's 
surge suppressors seem to add to the problem, but I can live with that.


Also, I know that I'm getting about 20 volts at the radios on a couple 
clusters that are on ~300 feet of cable, SyncInjector fed by a 24v 
regulated power supply with the pot set at 25 volts (due to UBNT radios 
on shorter runs). The 450 APs seem to handle it fine.


On 7/6/2016 8:15 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe I.T) wrote:


I’d also make sure you have enough power getting up the cable to drive it.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, July 7, 2016 9:34 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive,doesn't 
happen if no SM sessions


OK, I just upgraded the AP to 14.1.2 and so far, so good. SMs next.

*From:*Sean Heskett 

*Sent:*Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't 
happen if no SM sessions


i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release)

if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure 
that you are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or 
some client is launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has 
started intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side 
(can't access GUI, doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, 
but neither the AP nor the switch shows any errors or events.  It is 
more like the CPU is going to sleep or something, but the Ethernet 
chip is still active.  I don't see anything in the Event Log though.


We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I 
thought maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I 
applied the license key and still see the problem.


The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code 
to something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the 
problem.  Only once SMs start registering.


I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses 
more power when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting 
enough voltage.


But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium 
finally released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the 
firmware though, unless there is some reason to believe what I am 
seeing is a firmware bug. Otherwise I am just adding to the confusion.

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Rhys Cuff (Latrobe I.T)]

I’d also make sure you have enough power getting up the cable to drive it.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2016 9:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive,doesn't happen if no 
SM sessions

 

OK, I just upgraded the AP to 14.1.2 and so far, so good.  SMs next.

 

 

From: Sean Heskett   

Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no 
SM sessions

 

i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release) 

 

if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that you 
are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client is 
launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?

 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has started 
intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access GUI, 
doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP nor the 
switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU is going to sleep 
or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I don't see anything in 
the Event Log though.

We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought maybe 
that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the license key and 
still see the problem.

The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to 
something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only once 
SMs start registering.

I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more power 
when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough voltage.

But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium finally 
released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware though, unless 
there is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a firmware bug. Otherwise I 
am just adding to the confusion. 

 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Ken Hohhof]

OK, I just upgraded the AP to 14.1.2 and so far, so good.  SMs next.


From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no 
SM sessions

i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release) 

if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that you 
are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client is 
launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

  I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has started 
intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access GUI, 
doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP nor the 
switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU is going to sleep 
or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I don't see anything in 
the Event Log though.

  We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought 
maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the license 
key and still see the problem.

  The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to 
something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only once 
SMs start registering.

  I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more power 
when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough voltage.

  But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium finally 
released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware though, unless 
there is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a firmware bug. Otherwise I 
am just adding to the confusion. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[timothy steele]

I have seen that if there is a firmware mismatch example AP is on 14.1.1
and the SM is on a firmware older then 13.4 I have seen random data drops
or the AP kicking the SM

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016, 6:59 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I’m sure it’s not a network loop or attack.
>
> I’m starting to think this is a variation of the memory controller
> problem, but rather than causing watchdog resets, it’s causing data to stop
> being processed.
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't
> happen if no SM sessions
>
> i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release)
>
> if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that
> you are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client
> is launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?
>>
>> I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has
>> started intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't
>> access GUI, doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither
>> the AP nor the switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU
>> is going to sleep or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I
>> don't see anything in the Event Log though.
>>
>> We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought
>> maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the
>> license key and still see the problem.
>>
>> The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to
>> something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only
>> once SMs start registering.
>>
>> I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more
>> power when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough
>> voltage.
>>
>> But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium
>> finally released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware
>> though, unless there is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a
>> firmware bug. Otherwise I am just adding to the confusion.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

[Christopher Gray]

No RADIUS, just bridge. I do have interference, but it is generally
minimal. No smart meters, very rural, usually a low noise floor.

I'm going to be swapping a bunch of this hardware out in 3-4 weeks, but I
need to buy some time. I suppose I was hoping the 13.4.1 had some issue and
a downgrade would fix all my problems.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Are you using RADIUS?  We had to turn auth off for several 900 APs because
> the connection was too weak to maintain the tunnel necessary for the RADIUS
> handshake.
>
> Sounds like you probably have interference which is typical for 900mhz
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Christopher Gray 
> wrote:
>
>> It is not especially scientific at this point. Customers who claim they
>> previously had no problem now have regular re-registrations. I'm starting
>> to wonder if some of these radios are simply failing [one is receiving
>> around -70 dBm but cannot keep a link up long enough to get the spectrum
>> analyzer to work].
>>
>> This is a network that I started working on a little to quickly. I knew a
>> bunch of links were not stable on 2X modulation and there had been no
>> firmware updates, so went straight into "fixing" all of the firmware.
>>
>> Perhaps I should be asking about good settings for high interference
>> situations?
>>
>> If 13.4.1 is not lacking, I'll keep it there and dig into other options.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Brandon Yuchasz 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Chris in the interest of muddying the waters more and contradicting what
>>> Sean just said. We also are using 13.4.1 on all APs since we were
>>> collocating with 450i. Its been very stable for us as well and I did not
>>> notice any week signal connections becoming worse. The contradiction is we
>>> did not upgrade SM firmware. Most are still on 10.5. I know we should but
>>> many are being replaced by epmp or 450i. maybe you should define a week
>>> connection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>>
>>> GogebicRange.net
>>>
>>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Christopher Gray
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 4:03 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I upgraded a system that had a mix of firmware ranging 7.x to 12.x. I
>>> moved everything to 13.4.1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm seeing stability issues. Weak links or high interference links are
>>> dropping regularly where they were not dropping in the past. Decent links
>>> appear to be holding 2X modulation better, but I need to keep the weaker
>>> links up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a consensus or at least good recommendation regarding the most
>>> stable firmware for the 900MHz PMP100?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you - Chris
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Ken Hohhof]

I’m sure it’s not a network loop or attack.

I’m starting to think this is a variation of the memory controller problem, but 
rather than causing watchdog resets, it’s causing data to stop being processed.


From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 5:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no 
SM sessions

i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release) 

if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that you 
are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client is 
launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

  I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has started 
intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access GUI, 
doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP nor the 
switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU is going to sleep 
or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I don't see anything in 
the Event Log though.

  We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought 
maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the license 
key and still see the problem.

  The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to 
something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only once 
SMs start registering.

  I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more power 
when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough voltage.

  But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium finally 
released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware though, unless 
there is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a firmware bug. Otherwise I 
am just adding to the confusion. 

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

[Sean Heskett]

Are you using RADIUS?  We had to turn auth off for several 900 APs because
the connection was too weak to maintain the tunnel necessary for the RADIUS
handshake.

Sounds like you probably have interference which is typical for 900mhz

-Sean


On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Christopher Gray 
wrote:

> It is not especially scientific at this point. Customers who claim they
> previously had no problem now have regular re-registrations. I'm starting
> to wonder if some of these radios are simply failing [one is receiving
> around -70 dBm but cannot keep a link up long enough to get the spectrum
> analyzer to work].
>
> This is a network that I started working on a little to quickly. I knew a
> bunch of links were not stable on 2X modulation and there had been no
> firmware updates, so went straight into "fixing" all of the firmware.
>
> Perhaps I should be asking about good settings for high interference
> situations?
>
> If 13.4.1 is not lacking, I'll keep it there and dig into other options.
>
> -Chris
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Brandon Yuchasz  > wrote:
>
>> Chris in the interest of muddying the waters more and contradicting what
>> Sean just said. We also are using 13.4.1 on all APs since we were
>> collocating with 450i. Its been very stable for us as well and I did not
>> notice any week signal connections becoming worse. The contradiction is we
>> did not upgrade SM firmware. Most are still on 10.5. I know we should but
>> many are being replaced by epmp or 450i. maybe you should define a week
>> connection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>> GogebicRange.net
>>
>> www.gogebicrange.net
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of 
>> *Christopher
>> Gray
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 4:03 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?
>>
>>
>>
>> I upgraded a system that had a mix of firmware ranging 7.x to 12.x. I
>> moved everything to 13.4.1.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm seeing stability issues. Weak links or high interference links are
>> dropping regularly where they were not dropping in the past. Decent links
>> appear to be holding 2X modulation better, but I need to keep the weaker
>> links up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there a consensus or at least good recommendation regarding the most
>> stable firmware for the 900MHz PMP100?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you - Chris
>>
>
>

[AFMUG] Mimosa A5c Range

[Matt]

Anyone deployed the A5c sector yet?  What kind of range are you
getting for C5 SM's?  The short range has always held me back.

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

[Christopher Gray]

It is not especially scientific at this point. Customers who claim they
previously had no problem now have regular re-registrations. I'm starting
to wonder if some of these radios are simply failing [one is receiving
around -70 dBm but cannot keep a link up long enough to get the spectrum
analyzer to work].

This is a network that I started working on a little to quickly. I knew a
bunch of links were not stable on 2X modulation and there had been no
firmware updates, so went straight into "fixing" all of the firmware.

Perhaps I should be asking about good settings for high interference
situations?

If 13.4.1 is not lacking, I'll keep it there and dig into other options.

-Chris


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Chris in the interest of muddying the waters more and contradicting what
> Sean just said. We also are using 13.4.1 on all APs since we were
> collocating with 450i. Its been very stable for us as well and I did not
> notice any week signal connections becoming worse. The contradiction is we
> did not upgrade SM firmware. Most are still on 10.5. I know we should but
> many are being replaced by epmp or 450i. maybe you should define a week
> connection.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Christopher Gray
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 4:03 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?
>
>
>
> I upgraded a system that had a mix of firmware ranging 7.x to 12.x. I
> moved everything to 13.4.1.
>
>
>
> I'm seeing stability issues. Weak links or high interference links are
> dropping regularly where they were not dropping in the past. Decent links
> appear to be holding 2X modulation better, but I need to keep the weaker
> links up.
>
>
>
> Is there a consensus or at least good recommendation regarding the most
> stable firmware for the 900MHz PMP100?
>
>
>
> Thank you - Chris
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Sean Heskett]

i would upgrade the AP and all SMs to 14.1.2 (it's a very stable release)

if it exhibits these issues once SMs start to register are you sure that
you are not somehow creating a network loop through an SM, or some client
is launching a DDoS and the subject of a DDoS attack?

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?
>
> I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has started
> intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access
> GUI, doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP
> nor the switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU is
> going to sleep or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I
> don't see anything in the Event Log though.
>
> We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought
> maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the
> license key and still see the problem.
>
> The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to
> something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only
> once SMs start registering.
>
> I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more
> power when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough
> voltage.
>
> But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium
> finally released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware
> though, unless there is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a
> firmware bug. Otherwise I am just adding to the confusion.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

Gosh, you would do that for me?  What a guy!

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

If you send me the card numbers and the three code off the back of the card I 
can go ahead and check to see how the transaction will turn out, but im pretty 
sure it will come back over limit when you try to run it

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

  You may have a hard time getting a "small business" card that provides 2% 
cashback for that high of a limit. These are designed for businesses that spend 
less than $50k/month on a credit card. That is the one good thing about AMEX, 
once you have built a reputation with them, there really is no limit on their 
card.

  Travis 




  On 7/6/2016 1:46 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over 
$100k per month to our corp amex

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and 
then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up the 
dough.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.

  I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards, 
and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire, 
freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get 
anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an 
occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can 
redeem for values over 2 cents per point. 

  With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories 
which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to maximize 
this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using theatre gift cards 
from the last time the rewards category was movie theatres. 

  Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through 
your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum spend, 
or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see this making 
sense on a regular basis.   


  On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman"  
wrote:

What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

  Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the 
miles you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

  Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card 
for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, 
food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on 
every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to 
me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot 
of work to track everything, etc.


  Travis



  On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

S Corp

From: Jason Wilson 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org 
(llc,Corp) and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to 
obtain cash and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances 
with the proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under 
nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely 
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It 
is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a 
bank must prove intent to deceive.[1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit 
card minimum balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit.

It all will depend on your CC Processor.




Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  
wrote:

  I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they 
would care as they are still getting paid and you'll be 

[AFMUG] 450 AP intermittently nonresponsive, doesn't happen if no SM sessions

[Ken Hohhof]

Does this sound like any kind of a known issue?

I have a 450 AP that has been in service for about a year that has started 
intermittently becoming nonresponsive from the Ethernet side (can't access 
GUI, doesn't pass traffic).  I thought Ethernet problem, but neither the AP 
nor the switch shows any errors or events.  It is more like the CPU is going 
to sleep or something, but the Ethernet chip is still active.  I don't see 
anything in the Event Log though.


We missed applying the Lite to Full license key on this AP and I thought 
maybe that was the problem since it was at 10 SMs, but I applied the license 
key and still see the problem.


The weird thing is, if I set the Freq to None, or set the color code to 
something we don't use, the AP doesn't seem to exhibit the problem.  Only 
once SMs start registering.


I'm thinking it's maybe a power starvation issue, that the AP uses more 
power when actively talking to SMs, and maybe it's not getting enough 
voltage.


But I also see the firmware is still on 13.2.1.3, and I see Cambium finally 
released 14.1.2 official.  I am hesitant to upgrade the firmware though, 
unless there is some reason to believe what I am seeing is a firmware bug. 
Otherwise I am just adding to the confusion. 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If you send me the card numbers and the three code off the back of the card
I can go ahead and check to see how the transaction will turn out, but im
pretty sure it will come back over limit when you try to run it

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> You may have a hard time getting a "small business" card that provides 2%
> cashback for that high of a limit. These are designed for businesses that
> spend less than $50k/month on a credit card. That is the one good thing
> about AMEX, once you have built a reputation with them, there really is no
> limit on their card.
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 1:46 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>
> good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
> $100k per month to our corp amex
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and
>> then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up
>> the dough.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>
>>
>> The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.
>>
>> I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
>> and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
>> freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
>> anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
>> occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
>> redeem for values over 2 cents per point.
>>
>> With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
>> which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
>> maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
>> theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
>> theatres.
>>
>> Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
>> your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
>> spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
>> this making sense on a regular basis.
>> On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>>
 Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
 you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

 Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card
 for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone
 bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2%
 cashback on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get
 checks mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game
 always seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.


 Travis


 On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 S Corp

 *From:* Jason Wilson 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

 Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
 and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.


 *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
  to obtain cash and
 purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
  balances with the proceeds
 of other cards. Unlike check kiting
 , which is illegal under
 nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
 completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
 some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
 necessary, stop it.

 In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a
 bank must prove intent to deceive.[1]
  Eq seq
 reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
  proceeds is de facto
  evidence of deceit.

 It all will depend on your CC Processor.


 Jason Wilson
 Remotely Located
 Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
 530-651-1736
 530-748-9608 Cell
 www.remotelylocated.com

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 

Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

huh what?

So, why would the SNR values change if its simply an indicator of what it
would be on a clean channel, every radio with a -60 would always have the
exact same SNR every time under all circumstances based on that description

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Dan Sullivan <
daniel.sulli...@cambiumnetworks.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> SNR reports the signal to noise ratio.  If there is additional
> interference, then the CINR (carrier to interference and noise ratio) will
> be less than SNR.  If there is no interference, then CINR will be the same
> as SNR.  Therefore, SNR is your best case and reflects expected performance
> on a clean channel (i.e. without interference).
>
>
>
> Daniel Sullivan
>
> ePMP Systems and Software Manager
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0
>
>
>
> I think there is an issue in general with any radio built on Atheros chips
> sets. It appears to me that if the interference is _NOT_ 802.11-based, then
> it does not exist. So this affects any radios that use an Atheros chip set.
> UBNT, ePMP, Mikrotik, etc.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 5:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not
> believe the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik.
>
> I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet
> maintains MCS 0 for uplink and downlink.
>
> The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from last
> night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty to do a
> little better than 0.
>
> Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted.
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Travis Johnson]

You may have a hard time getting a "small business" card that provides 
2% cashback for that high of a limit. These are designed for businesses 
that spend less than $50k/month on a credit card. That is the one good 
thing about AMEX, once you have built a reputation with them, there 
really is no limit on their card.


Travis


On 7/6/2016 1:46 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over 
$100k per month to our corp amex


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would
spend and then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I
have to cough up the dough.
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
*To:* af 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend
card.

I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning
cards, and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the
chase sapphire, freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal
and chase ink,  I get anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel
rewards (mostly hotels and an occasional flight).   But this only
works if you travel enough that you can redeem for values over 2
cents per point.

With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus
categories which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy
gift cards to maximize this..  for instance, we're currently
watching movies using theatre gift cards from the last time the
rewards category was movie theatres.

Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards
through your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to
meet a minimum spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work, 
but I sure can't see this making sense on a regular basis.


On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman"
>
wrote:

What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:

Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k)
justify the miles you will gain? How much is it to just
"buy" the same amount of miles?

Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on
everything card for ALL my personal expenses (groceries,
gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, food, car expenses,
etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on
every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just
get checks mailed to me about once a month for the
rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot of work
to track everything, etc.


Travis


On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

S Corp
*From:* Jason Wilson 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured
org (llc,Corp) and you have an invoice for said items
then you should be ok.

*Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more
credit cards 
to obtain cash and purchasing power they do not have, or
pay credit card
 balances with
the proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting
, which is
illegal under nearly all circumstances, laws against
credit card kiting are not completely prohibitive of the
practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree.
It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
necessary, stop it.

In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting
scheme, a bank must prove intent to deceive.^[1]

Eq seq reference infers paying credit card minimum
balances with credit card
 proceeds is
de facto 
evidence of deceit.

It all will depend on your CC Processor.


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

I can think of one customer of ours that uses Amex.  There could be more - but 
heck, costco even just dumped em

  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 3:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.


  I have had bad experiences with totally clean legit AMEX before.  I can only 
imagine.  

  From: Chuck Hogg 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  So just a simple word of advice...don't do it. 

  We did this before for a rental house that needed a new A/C.  The guy 
originally told us he could take AMEX and then found out he couldn't.  So we 
ended up running the transaction, to pay the contractor.  AMEX said that since 
we were owners of the company, it violated the merchant services agreement.  We 
ended up tying up $8,700 in limbo for 3 weeks and almost lost our AMEX merchant 
account.  In the end, they voided the transaction.

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over 
$100k per month to our corp amex

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and 
then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up the 
dough.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.

  I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards, 
and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire, 
freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get 
anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an 
occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can 
redeem for values over 2 cents per point. 

  With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories 
which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to maximize 
this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using theatre gift cards 
from the last time the rewards category was movie theatres. 

  Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through 
your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum spend, 
or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see this making 
sense on a regular basis.   


  On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman"  
wrote:

What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

  Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the 
miles you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

  Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card 
for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, 
food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on 
every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to 
me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot 
of work to track everything, etc.


  Travis



  On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

S Corp

From: Jason Wilson 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org 
(llc,Corp) and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to 
obtain cash and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances 
with the proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under 
nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely 
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It 
is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a 
bank must prove intent to deceive.[1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit 
card minimum balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit.

It all will depend on your CC Processor.




Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

All of my company spend goes through a starwood amex or the chase ink
card.  It's nice when you generate free hotel nights.  The points also have
fewer tax implications than cash back.

As an example,  I just booked five nights at a four star hotel in Berlin
which would have been around 250 a night.   I used 40,000 points which when
you figure it out is about a 3.1% return assuming 1 point per cent of
spend.  Much of the time I get an even better return.
On Jul 6, 2016 1:46 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
$100k per month to our corp amex

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and
> then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up
> the dough.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
>
> The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.
>
> I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
> and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
> freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
> anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
> occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
> redeem for values over 2 cents per point.
>
> With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
> which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
> maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
> theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
> theatres.
>
> Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
> your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
> spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
> this making sense on a regular basis.
> On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
>>> you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?
>>>
>>> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for
>>> ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill,
>>> food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback
>>> on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks
>>> mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always
>>> seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> S Corp
>>>
>>> *From:* Jason Wilson 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>>
>>> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
>>> and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>>>  to obtain cash and
>>> purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
>>>  balances with the proceeds
>>> of other cards. Unlike check kiting
>>> , which is illegal under
>>> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
>>> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
>>> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
>>> necessary, stop it.
>>>
>>> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank
>>> must prove intent to deceive.[1]
>>>  Eq seq
>>> reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
>>>  proceeds is de facto
>>>  evidence of deceit.
>>>
>>> It all will depend on your CC Processor.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Wilson
>>> Remotely Located
>>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>>> 530-651-1736
>>> 530-748-9608 Cell
>>> www.remotelylocated.com
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>>
 I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would
 care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the
 charge. The biggest charge I've run through 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

I have had bad experiences with totally clean legit AMEX before.  I can only 
imagine.  

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

So just a simple word of advice...don't do it. 

We did this before for a rental house that needed a new A/C.  The guy 
originally told us he could take AMEX and then found out he couldn't.  So we 
ended up running the transaction, to pay the contractor.  AMEX said that since 
we were owners of the company, it violated the merchant services agreement.  We 
ended up tying up $8,700 in limbo for 3 weeks and almost lost our AMEX merchant 
account.  In the end, they voided the transaction.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

  good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over $100k 
per month to our corp amex

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and 
then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up the 
dough.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.

I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards, and 
also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire, freedom,  
and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get anywhere between 
3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an occasional flight).   
But this only works if you travel enough that you can redeem for values over 2 
cents per point. 

With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories 
which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to maximize 
this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using theatre gift cards 
from the last time the rewards category was movie theatres. 

Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through your 
own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum spend, or 
need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see this making sense 
on a regular basis.   


On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

  What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles 
you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card 
for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, 
food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on 
every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to 
me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot 
of work to track everything, etc.


Travis



On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  S Corp

  From: Jason Wilson 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) 
and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

  Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to 
obtain cash and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances 
with the proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under 
nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely 
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It 
is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

  In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a 
bank must prove intent to deceive.[1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit 
card minimum balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit.

  It all will depend on your CC Processor.




  Jason Wilson
  Remotely Located
  Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
  530-651-1736
  530-748-9608 Cell
  www.remotelylocated.com

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  
wrote:

I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they 
would care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the 
charge. The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know 
square used to hold funds over 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Josh Luthman]

Friend moved to Florida last year.  I see his weather posts.  That weather
looks like complete hell even if you have an office AC job.  For working
outside I'd GTFO in a week.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> I dont live in FL... lol
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> *not available to weird places that have beautiful weather all the time
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
>>> $100k per month to our corp amex
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend
 and then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough
 up the dough.

 *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
 *To:* af 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.


 The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.

 I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
 and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
 freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
 anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
 occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
 redeem for values over 2 cents per point.

 With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus
 categories which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards
 to maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
 theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
 theatres.

 Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
 your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
 spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
 this making sense on a regular basis.
 On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
 wrote:

> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the
>> miles you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of 
>> miles?
>>
>> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card
>> for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone
>> bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2%
>> cashback on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get
>> checks mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game
>> always seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>>
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> S Corp
>>
>> *From:* Jason Wilson 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>
>> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
>> and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>>
>>
>> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>>  to obtain cash and
>> purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
>>  balances with the
>> proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting
>> , which is illegal under
>> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
>> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
>> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
>> necessary, stop it.
>>
>> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a
>> bank must prove intent to deceive.[1]
>>  Eq
>> seq reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit
>> card  proceeds is de facto
>>  evidence of 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Gino Villarini]

I dont live in FL... lol

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> *not available to weird places that have beautiful weather all the time
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
>> $100k per month to our corp amex
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and
>>> then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up
>>> the dough.
>>>
>>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
>>> *To:* af 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.
>>>
>>> I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
>>> and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
>>> freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
>>> anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
>>> occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
>>> redeem for values over 2 cents per point.
>>>
>>> With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
>>> which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
>>> maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
>>> theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
>>> theatres.
>>>
>>> Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
>>> your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
>>> spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
>>> this making sense on a regular basis.
>>> On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the
> miles you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of 
> miles?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card
> for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone
> bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2%
> cashback on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get
> checks mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game
> always seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> S Corp
>
> *From:* Jason Wilson 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
> and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>
>
> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>  to obtain cash and
> purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
>  balances with the
> proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting
> , which is illegal under
> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
> necessary, stop it.
>
> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a
> bank must prove intent to deceive.[1]
>  Eq seq
> reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
>  proceeds is de facto
>  evidence of deceit.
>
> It all will depend on your CC Processor.
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum 
> wrote:
>
>> I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would
>> care as they are still getting paid and 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck Hogg]

So just a simple word of advice...don't do it.

We did this before for a rental house that needed a new A/C.  The guy
originally told us he could take AMEX and then found out he couldn't.  So
we ended up running the transaction, to pay the contractor.  AMEX said that
since we were owners of the company, it violated the merchant services
agreement.  We ended up tying up $8,700 in limbo for 3 weeks and almost
lost our AMEX merchant account.  In the end, they voided the transaction.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
> $100k per month to our corp amex
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and
>> then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up
>> the dough.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>
>>
>> The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.
>>
>> I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
>> and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
>> freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
>> anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
>> occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
>> redeem for values over 2 cents per point.
>>
>> With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
>> which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
>> maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
>> theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
>> theatres.
>>
>> Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
>> your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
>> spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
>> this making sense on a regular basis.
>> On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>>
 Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
 you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

 Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card
 for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone
 bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2%
 cashback on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get
 checks mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game
 always seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.


 Travis


 On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 S Corp

 *From:* Jason Wilson 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

 Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
 and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.


 *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
  to obtain cash and
 purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
  balances with the proceeds
 of other cards. Unlike check kiting
 , which is illegal under
 nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
 completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
 some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
 necessary, stop it.

 In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a
 bank must prove intent to deceive.[1]
  Eq seq
 reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
  proceeds is de facto
  evidence of deceit.

 It all will depend on your CC Processor.


 Jason Wilson
 Remotely Located
 Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
 530-651-1736
 530-748-9608 Cell
 www.remotelylocated.com

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum 
 wrote:

> I didn't think about the miles 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Josh Luthman]

*not available to weird places that have beautiful weather all the time


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
> $100k per month to our corp amex
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and
>> then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up
>> the dough.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>
>>
>> The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.
>>
>> I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
>> and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
>> freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
>> anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
>> occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
>> redeem for values over 2 cents per point.
>>
>> With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
>> which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
>> maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
>> theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
>> theatres.
>>
>> Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
>> your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
>> spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
>> this making sense on a regular basis.
>> On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>>
 Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
 you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

 Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card
 for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone
 bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2%
 cashback on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get
 checks mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game
 always seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.


 Travis


 On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 S Corp

 *From:* Jason Wilson 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

 Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
 and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.


 *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
  to obtain cash and
 purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
  balances with the proceeds
 of other cards. Unlike check kiting
 , which is illegal under
 nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
 completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
 some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
 necessary, stop it.

 In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a
 bank must prove intent to deceive.[1]
  Eq seq
 reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
  proceeds is de facto
  evidence of deceit.

 It all will depend on your CC Processor.


 Jason Wilson
 Remotely Located
 Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
 530-651-1736
 530-748-9608 Cell
 www.remotelylocated.com

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum 
 wrote:

> I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would
> care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the
> charge. The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I
> know square used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or
> so? Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Gino Villarini]

good lord! in need to apply for that 2% cash back! we are pumping over
$100k per month to our corp amex

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and
> then when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up
> the dough.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
>
> The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.
>
> I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards,
> and also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
> freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
> anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
> occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
> redeem for values over 2 cents per point.
>
> With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
> which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
> maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
> theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
> theatres.
>
> Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through
> your own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum
> spend, or need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see
> this making sense on a regular basis.
> On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
>>> you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?
>>>
>>> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for
>>> ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill,
>>> food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback
>>> on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks
>>> mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always
>>> seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> S Corp
>>>
>>> *From:* Jason Wilson 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>>
>>> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp)
>>> and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>>>  to obtain cash and
>>> purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
>>>  balances with the proceeds
>>> of other cards. Unlike check kiting
>>> , which is illegal under
>>> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
>>> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
>>> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
>>> necessary, stop it.
>>>
>>> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank
>>> must prove intent to deceive.[1]
>>>  Eq seq
>>> reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
>>>  proceeds is de facto
>>>  evidence of deceit.
>>>
>>> It all will depend on your CC Processor.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Wilson
>>> Remotely Located
>>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>>> 530-651-1736
>>> 530-748-9608 Cell
>>> www.remotelylocated.com
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>>
 I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would
 care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the
 charge. The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I
 know square used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or
 so? Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember something like that.

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after
> contacting the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

I like miles because I can’t spend them.  Dollars back I would spend and then 
when I need to go to the UK to visit my daughter I have to cough up the dough.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:30 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.

I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards, and 
also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire, freedom,  
and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get anywhere between 
3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an occasional flight).   
But this only works if you travel enough that you can redeem for values over 2 
cents per point. 

With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories which 
are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to maximize this..  
for instance,  we're currently watching movies using theatre gift cards from 
the last time the rewards category was movie theatres. 

Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through your own 
merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum spend, or need a 
few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see this making sense on a 
regular basis.   


On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

  What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles you 
will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for 
ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, food, 
car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on every 
single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to me 
about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot of 
work to track everything, etc.


Travis



On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  S Corp

  From: Jason Wilson 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and 
you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

  Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to 
obtain cash and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances 
with the proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under 
nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely 
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It 
is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

  In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank 
must prove intent to deceive.[1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit card 
minimum balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit.

  It all will depend on your CC Processor.




  Jason Wilson
  Remotely Located
  Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
  530-651-1736
  530-748-9608 Cell
  www.remotelylocated.com

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would 
care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge. 
The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know square 
used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so? Maybe that 
is too long, but I seem to remember something like that. 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after 
contacting the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to 
get money or systems locked up.  
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick 
books merchant account too.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for 
testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The Citi double cash is 2%.  I used to use it as my everyday spend card.

I am having really good luck with chase ultimate rewards earning cards, and
also spg earning cards.  With the combination of the chase sapphire,
freedom,  and freedom unlimited cards for personal and chase ink,  I get
anywhere between 3% and 10% back in travel rewards (mostly hotels and an
occasional flight).   But this only works if you travel enough that you can
redeem for values over 2 cents per point.

With the chase freedom and discover they have revolving bonus categories
which are 5x points (10% effectively).  We try to buy gift cards to
maximize this..  for instance,  we're currently watching movies using
theatre gift cards from the last time the rewards category was movie
theatres.

Back to the question about whether it makes sense to run cards through your
own merchant account...  maybe if you're trying to meet a minimum spend, or
need a few miles to make a reward work,  but I sure can't see this making
sense on a regular basis.
On Jul 6, 2016 12:37 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
>> you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?
>>
>> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for
>> ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill,
>> food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback
>> on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks
>> mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always
>> seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>>
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> S Corp
>>
>> *From:* Jason Wilson 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>
>> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and
>> you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>>
>>
>> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>>  to obtain cash and
>> purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
>>  balances with the proceeds
>> of other cards. Unlike check kiting
>> , which is illegal under
>> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
>> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
>> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
>> necessary, stop it.
>>
>> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank
>> must prove intent to deceive.[1]
>>  Eq seq
>> reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
>>  proceeds is de facto
>>  evidence of deceit.
>>
>> It all will depend on your CC Processor.
>>
>>
>> Jason Wilson
>> Remotely Located
>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>> 530-651-1736
>> 530-748-9608 Cell
>> www.remotelylocated.com
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would
>>> care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the
>>> charge. The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I
>>> know square used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or
>>> so? Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember something like that.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after
 contacting the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to
> get money or systems locked up.
> I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books
> merchant account too.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
> I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for
> testing and for paying myself for something as 

Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[Mike Hammett]

Well said, Jay. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: par...@cyberbroadband.net 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 1:59:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0 



Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone 


- Reply message - 
From: "Mike Hammett"  
To:  
Subject: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0 
Date: Wed, Jul 6, 2016 1:39 PM 



Oh, so thermal noise. I think operators have more or less have just coined 
noise as anything that reduces the utility of the link. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Dan Sullivan"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 1:36:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0 



Hi, 

SNR reports the signal to noise ratio. If there is additional interference, 
then the CINR (carrier to interference and noise ratio) will be less than SNR. 
If there is no interference, then CINR will be the same as SNR. Therefore, SNR 
is your best case and reflects expected performance on a clean channel (i.e. 
without interference). 

Daniel Sullivan 
ePMP Systems and Software Manager 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0 

I think there is an issue in general with any radio built on Atheros chips 
sets. It appears to me that if the interference is _NOT_ 802.11-based, then it 
does not exist. So this affects any radios that use an Atheros chip set. UBNT, 
ePMP, Mikrotik, etc. bp  

On 7/6/2016 5:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not believe 
the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik. 

I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet maintains 
MCS 0 for uplink and downlink. 

The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from last 
night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty to do a little 
better than 0. 

Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted. 

Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[par...@cyberbroadband.net]

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0
Date: Wed, Jul 6, 2016 1:39 PM
Oh, so thermal noise.  I think operators have more or less have just coined 
noise as anything that reduces the utility of the link.

-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe 
Brothers WISP



From: "Dan Sullivan" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 1:36:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0








Hi,

SNR reports the signal to noise ratio.  If there is additional interference, 
then the CINR (carrier to interference and noise ratio) will be less than SNR.  
If
there is no interference, then CINR will be the same as SNR.  Therefore, SNR is 
your best case and reflects expected performance on a clean channel (i.e. 
without interference).

Daniel Sullivan
ePMP Systems and Software Manager



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Prince

Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:16 PM

To: af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0



I think there is an issue in general with any radio built on Atheros chips 
sets. It appears to me that if the interference is _NOT_ 802.11-based, then it 
does not exist. So this affects any radios that use an Atheros chip set. UBNT, 
ePMP, Mikrotik, etc.
bp



On 7/6/2016 5:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:



Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not believe 
the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik.



I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet maintains 
MCS 0 for uplink and downlink.



The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from last 
night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty to do a little 
better than 0.



Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted.

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Josh Luthman]

Awesome, thanks!

The business card is probably a Spark Signature.  The regular Spark is only
1.5%.  I found this out last year when someone else said they had the
similar card but 2%.  A phone call and $59 a year fixed that right up =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> The personal card is the Citi Mastercard. The business card is the
> CapitalOne Spark Business card.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 12:37 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
>> you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?
>>
>> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for
>> ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill,
>> food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback
>> on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks
>> mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always
>> seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>>
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> S Corp
>>
>> *From:* Jason Wilson 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>
>> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and
>> you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>>
>>
>> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>>  to obtain cash and
>> purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
>>  balances with the proceeds
>> of other cards. Unlike check kiting
>> , which is illegal under
>> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
>> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
>> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
>> necessary, stop it.
>>
>> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank
>> must prove intent to deceive.[1]
>>  Eq seq
>> reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
>>  proceeds is de facto
>>  evidence of deceit.
>>
>> It all will depend on your CC Processor.
>>
>>
>> Jason Wilson
>> Remotely Located
>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>> 530-651-1736
>> 530-748-9608 Cell
>> www.remotelylocated.com
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would
>>> care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the
>>> charge. The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I
>>> know square used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or
>>> so? Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember something like that.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after
 contacting the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to
> get money or systems locked up.
> I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books
> merchant account too.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
> I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for
> testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they
> really care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.
>
> Cameron
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something
>> from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company 
>> square
>> reader.
>>
>> Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant
>> account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Travis Johnson]

The personal card is the Citi Mastercard. The business card is the 
CapitalOne Spark Business card.


Travis


On 7/6/2016 12:37 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:


Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the
miles you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount
of miles?

Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything
card for ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills,
cell phone bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different
business card (also 2% cashback on every single item) for all my
business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to me about once a
month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot of
work to track everything, etc.


Travis


On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

S Corp
*From:* Jason Wilson 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org
(llc,Corp) and you have an invoice for said items then you should
be ok.

*Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit
cards  to obtain cash
and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card
 balances with the
proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting
, which is illegal
under nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting
are not completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing
it to be done to some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the
practice and when necessary, stop it.

In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme,
a bank must prove intent to deceive.^[1]
 Eq
seq reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with
credit card  proceeds
is de facto  evidence of
deceit.

It all will depend on your CC Processor.


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736 
530-748-9608  Cell
www.remotelylocated.com 
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum > wrote:

I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think
they would care as they are still getting paid and you'll be
out about 3% of the charge. The biggest charge I've run
through my own cars was about $300. I know square used to
hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so?
Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember something like
that.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:

From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem
after contacting the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow
those shenanigans.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown
> wrote:

I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really
don’t want to get money or systems locked up.
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I
have a quick books merchant account too.
*From:* Cameron Crum 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
I've run my own card on my own account before a
couple of times for testing and for paying myself for
something as well. I'm not sure they really care, but
I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.
Cameron
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown
> wrote:

This has been covered here before. I am
considering buying something from my own
company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her
company square reader.
Not sure if that 

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

Technically that is true.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

I'm not sure that Chuck is *trying* to get the points (unlike the last thread). 
I think it's just paying for things he personally got from the company.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 1:35:58 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles you 
will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for ALL my 
personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, food, car 
expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on every single 
item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to me about once 
a month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot of work to 
track everything, etc.


Travis



On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  S Corp

  From: Jason Wilson 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and you 
have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

  Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to obtain 
cash and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances with 
the proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under nearly 
all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely 
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It 
is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

  In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank must 
prove intent to deceive.[1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit card minimum 
balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit.

  It all will depend on your CC Processor.




  Jason Wilson
  Remotely Located
  Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
  530-651-1736
  530-748-9608 Cell
  www.remotelylocated.com

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would care 
as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge. The 
biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know square used 
to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so? Maybe that is too 
long, but I seem to remember something like that. 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after contacting 
the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get 
money or systems locked up.  
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books 
merchant account too.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for 
testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they really 
care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.  

Cameron

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something 
from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square 
reader.  

  Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant 
account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than 
half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.  

  How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

You have to ask your self questions about what expense is a business expense ...

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles you 
will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?

Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for ALL my 
personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, food, car 
expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on every single 
item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to me about once 
a month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot of work to 
track everything, etc.


Travis



On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  S Corp

  From: Jason Wilson 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and you 
have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

  Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to obtain 
cash and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances with 
the proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under nearly 
all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely 
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It 
is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

  In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank must 
prove intent to deceive.[1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit card minimum 
balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit.

  It all will depend on your CC Processor.




  Jason Wilson
  Remotely Located
  Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
  530-651-1736
  530-748-9608 Cell
  www.remotelylocated.com

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would care 
as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge. The 
biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know square used 
to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so? Maybe that is too 
long, but I seem to remember something like that. 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after contacting 
the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get 
money or systems locked up.  
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books 
merchant account too.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for 
testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they really 
care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.  

Cameron

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something 
from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square 
reader.  

  Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant 
account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than 
half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.  

  How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not sure that Chuck is *trying* to get the points (unlike the last thread). 
I think it's just paying for things he personally got from the company. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Travis Johnson"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 1:35:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities. 

Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles you 
will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles? 

Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for ALL my 
personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill, food, car 
expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback on every single 
item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks mailed to me about once 
a month for the rewards. The miles game always seemed like a lot of work to 
track everything, etc. 


Travis 



On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





S Corp 




From: Jason Wilson 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities. 



Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp? If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and you 
have an invoice for said items then you should be ok. 


Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to obtain cash 
and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances with the 
proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting , which is illegal under nearly 
all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely 
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It 
is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it. 
In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank must 
prove intent to deceive. [1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit card minimum 
balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit. 
It all will depend on your CC Processor. 






Jason Wilson 
Remotely Located 
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places. 
530-651-1736 
530-748-9608 Cell 
www.remotelylocated.com 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum < cc...@wispmon.com > wrote: 



I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would care as 
they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge. The 
biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know square used 
to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so? Maybe that is too 
long, but I seem to remember something like that. 


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



>From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after contacting the 
>merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans. 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get money 
or systems locked up. 
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books merchant 
account too. 




From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities. 






I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for testing and 
for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they really care, but I 
haven't read the AUP in like 4 years. 

Cameron 


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






This has been covered here before. I am considering buying something from my 
own company. Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square reader. 

Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP. Hate to get her merchant account 
shut down. It is a woman owned business with her owning more than half. I don’t 
technically work there. I am not on the payroll. 

How risky is this? 

Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[Mike Hammett]

Oh, so thermal noise. I think operators have more or less have just coined 
noise as anything that reduces the utility of the link. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Dan Sullivan"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 1:36:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0 



Hi, 

SNR reports the signal to noise ratio. If there is additional interference, 
then the CINR (carrier to interference and noise ratio) will be less than SNR. 
If there is no interference, then CINR will be the same as SNR. Therefore, SNR 
is your best case and reflects expected performance on a clean channel (i.e. 
without interference). 

Daniel Sullivan 
ePMP Systems and Software Manager 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0 

I think there is an issue in general with any radio built on Atheros chips 
sets. It appears to me that if the interference is _NOT_ 802.11-based, then it 
does not exist. So this affects any radios that use an Atheros chip set. UBNT, 
ePMP, Mikrotik, etc. bp  

On 7/6/2016 5:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not believe 
the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik. 

I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet maintains 
MCS 0 for uplink and downlink. 

The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from last 
night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty to do a little 
better than 0. 

Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted. 

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Jeremy]

Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods and
it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I have
seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some crap.
Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do twice.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are sending
> a loud 60 cycle tone.
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>
> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical code
> compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen trees and
> rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight possibility of electrical
> inspection based on where the power would be coming from.
>
> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can output
> 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things back to
> normal 46-48VDC will work.
>
> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>
>> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is
>> less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut
>> for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a
>> few things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would
>> be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.
>>
>> With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios
>> on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels
>> batteries enclosure, charge controller.
>>
>> Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see
>> 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a
>>> small solar setup. What is the latitude?
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>>
 Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
 radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
 where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.

 We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
 NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing
 a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

 It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
 calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
 at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
 which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
 52.5VDC for the radio.

 If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest,
 how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough
 time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much
 less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.



>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Josh Luthman]

What's the 2% personal card if I can ask?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles
> you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for
> ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone bill,
> food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% cashback
> on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just get checks
> mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles game always
> seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.
>
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> S Corp
>
> *From:* Jason Wilson 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
> Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and
> you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.
>
>
> *Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
>  to obtain cash and purchasing
> power they do not have, or pay credit card
>  balances with the proceeds of
> other cards. Unlike check kiting
> , which is illegal under
> nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not
> completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to
> some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when
> necessary, stop it.
>
> In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank
> must prove intent to deceive.[1]
>  Eq seq
> reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
>  proceeds is de facto
>  evidence of deceit.
>
> It all will depend on your CC Processor.
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would care
>> as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge.
>> The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know
>> square used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so?
>> Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember something like that.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after
>>> contacting the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get
 money or systems locked up.
 I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books
 merchant account too.

 *From:* Cameron Crum 
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

 I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for
 testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they
 really care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.

 Cameron

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something
> from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company 
> square
> reader.
>
> Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant
> account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than
> half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.
>
> How risky is this?
>


>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[Dan Sullivan]

Hi,

SNR reports the signal to noise ratio.  If there is additional interference, 
then the CINR (carrier to interference and noise ratio) will be less than SNR.  
If there is no interference, then CINR will be the same as SNR.  Therefore, SNR 
is your best case and reflects expected performance on a clean channel (i.e. 
without interference).

Daniel Sullivan
ePMP Systems and Software Manager

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0


I think there is an issue in general with any radio built on Atheros chips 
sets. It appears to me that if the interference is _NOT_ 802.11-based, then it 
does not exist. So this affects any radios that use an Atheros chip set. UBNT, 
ePMP, Mikrotik, etc.

bp




On 7/6/2016 5:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not believe 
the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik.

I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet maintains 
MCS 0 for uplink and downlink.

The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from last 
night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty to do a little 
better than 0.

Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted.

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Travis Johnson]

Does the 3% credit card processing fee ($300 on $10k) justify the miles 
you will gain? How much is it to just "buy" the same amount of miles?


Inquiring minds want to know. I use a 2% cashback on everything card for 
ALL my personal expenses (groceries, gas, utility bills, cell phone 
bill, food, car expenses, etc), and a different business card (also 2% 
cashback on every single item) for all my business stuff. Then I just 
get checks mailed to me about once a month for the rewards. The miles 
game always seemed like a lot of work to track everything, etc.



Travis


On 7/6/2016 12:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

S Corp
*From:* Jason Wilson 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) 
and you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.


*Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards 
 to obtain cash and 
purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card 
 balances with the proceeds 
of other cards. Unlike check kiting 
, which is illegal under 
nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not 
completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done 
to some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when 
necessary, stop it.


In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a 
bank must prove intent to deceive.^[1] 
 Eq seq 
reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card 
 proceeds is de facto 
 evidence of deceit.


It all will depend on your CC Processor.


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com 
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum > wrote:


I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they
would care as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about
3% of the charge. The biggest charge I've run through my own cars
was about $300. I know square used to hold funds over $1000 for
some period...like 7 days or so? Maybe that is too long, but I
seem to remember something like that.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman
>
wrote:

From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after
contacting the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really
don’t want to get money or systems locked up.
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a
quick books merchant account too.
*From:* Cameron Crum 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of
times for testing and for paying myself for something as
well. I'm not sure they really care, but I haven't read
the AUP in like 4 years.
Cameron
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown
> wrote:

This has been covered here before. I am considering
buying something from my own company.  Have Jenny run
my personal card on her company square reader.
Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP. Hate to get
her merchant account shut down.  It is a woman owned
business with her owning more than half.  I don’t
technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.
How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] AF24 Repairs?

[Eric Kuhnke]

I wonder if they're doing any electronic repairs or if it's less costly for
them to take the body of a dead AF24 and slap a new circuit board in it.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:48 AM, George Skorup  wrote:

> UBNT? You send them a bad radio and $500 (or $400?), and they send you a
> refurbished unit.
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 12:44 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>
>> Who is repairing AF24 units? got a couple of out of warranty units with
>> power/ethernet problems
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Sterling Jacobson]

If you regularly process amounts of $10k then it’s probably not a problem at 
all.

Otherwise, I would just invoice it in accounting and then write a check or wire 
transfer funds directly against that invoice.

But if your intent is to load up the debt on a credit card then paying with 
credit card makes sense, it might just take a while to clear and questions 
might be put forth from the processor.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 11:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get money 
or systems locked up.
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books merchant 
account too.

From: Cameron Crum
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for testing and 
for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they really care, but I 
haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.

Cameron

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something from my 
own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square reader.

Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant account 
shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than half.  I 
don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.

How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] AF24 Repairs?

[Gino Villarini]

thanks

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:48 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> UBNT? You send them a bad radio and $500 (or $400?), and they send you a
> refurbished unit.
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 12:44 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>
>> Who is repairing AF24 units? got a couple of out of warranty units with
>> power/ethernet problems
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

S Corp

From: Jason Wilson 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and you 
have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

Credit card kiting refers to the use of one or more credit cards to obtain cash 
and purchasing power they do not have, or pay credit card balances with the 
proceeds of other cards. Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under nearly all 
circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely prohibitive 
of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It is up to the 
banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank must 
prove intent to deceive.[1] Eq seq reference infers paying credit card minimum 
balances with credit card proceeds is de facto evidence of deceit.

It all will depend on your CC Processor.




Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would care as 
they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge. The 
biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know square used 
to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so? Maybe that is too 
long, but I seem to remember something like that. 

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after contacting 
the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get 
money or systems locked up.  
  I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books 
merchant account too.  

  From: Cameron Crum 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

  I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for 
testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they really 
care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.  

  Cameron

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something 
from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square 
reader.  

Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant 
account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than 
half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.  

How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Jason Wilson]

Sole Proprietor? LLC or Corp?  If you are a structured org (llc,Corp) and
you have an invoice for said items then you should be ok.

*Credit card kiting* refers to the use of one or more credit cards
 to obtain cash and purchasing
power they do not have, or pay credit card
 balances with the proceeds of
other cards. Unlike check kiting
, which is illegal under nearly
all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely
prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree.
It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it.

In order for prosecution to occur in a credit card kiting scheme, a bank
must prove intent to deceive.[1]
 Eq seq
reference infers paying credit card minimum balances with credit card
 proceeds is de facto
 evidence of deceit.

It all will depend on your CC Processor.


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

> I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would care
> as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge.
> The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know
> square used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so?
> Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember something like that.
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after contacting
>> the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get
>>> money or systems locked up.
>>> I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books
>>> merchant account too.
>>>
>>> *From:* Cameron Crum 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>>
>>> I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for
>>> testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they
>>> really care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.
>>>
>>> Cameron
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something
 from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square
 reader.

 Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant
 account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than
 half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.

 How risky is this?

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Cameron Crum]

I didn't think about the miles thing. I just didn't think they would care
as they are still getting paid and you'll be out about 3% of the charge.
The biggest charge I've run through my own cars was about $300. I know
square used to hold funds over $1000 for some period...like 7 days or so?
Maybe that is too long, but I seem to remember something like that.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after contacting
> the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get
>> money or systems locked up.
>> I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books
>> merchant account too.
>>
>> *From:* Cameron Crum 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>>
>> I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for
>> testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they
>> really care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something
>>> from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square
>>> reader.
>>>
>>> Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant
>>> account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than
>>> half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.
>>>
>>> How risky is this?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get money 
or systems locked up.  
I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books merchant 
account too.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for testing and 
for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they really care, but I 
haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.  

Cameron

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something from my 
own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square reader.  

  Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant account 
shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than half.  I 
don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.  

  How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

Miles...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

Your personal card on Jenny's reader?  How do you end up buying something from 
your own company?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something from my 
own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square reader.  

  Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant account 
shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than half.  I 
don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.  

  How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Josh Luthman]

>From what came up a while ago you can do that no problem after contacting
the merchant but IPPay doesn't allow those shenanigans.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I am thinking of doing this for about $10K and really don’t want to get
> money or systems locked up.
> I can also run it through my ecommerce site and I have a quick books
> merchant account too.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.
>
> I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for
> testing and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they
> really care, but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.
>
> Cameron
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something
>> from my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square
>> reader.
>>
>> Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant
>> account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than
>> half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.
>>
>> How risky is this?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Josh Luthman]

Your personal card on Jenny's reader?  How do you end up buying something
from your own company?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something from
> my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square
> reader.
>
> Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant
> account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than
> half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.
>
> How risky is this?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Cameron Crum]

I've run my own card on my own account before a couple of times for testing
and for paying myself for something as well. I'm not sure they really care,
but I haven't read the AUP in like 4 years.

Cameron

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something from
> my own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square
> reader.
>
> Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant
> account shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than
> half.  I don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.
>
> How risky is this?
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF24 Repairs?

[George Skorup]

UBNT? You send them a bad radio and $500 (or $400?), and they send you a 
refurbished unit.


On 7/6/2016 12:44 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
Who is repairing AF24 units? got a couple of out of warranty units 
with power/ethernet problems

[AFMUG] AF24 Repairs?

[Gino Villarini]

Who is repairing AF24 units? got a couple of out of warranty units with
power/ethernet problems

Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[George Skorup]

What does eAlign say you're getting for Rx power on each polarity, at 
both ends?


I had an ePTP link that showed great SNR, MCS14 one way, MCS15 the 
other, yet it would do only about 5x15Mbps. 4 mile link at about -55dBm. 
Changed frequency and it magically does 27x28Mbps (10MHz channel).


On 7/6/2016 7:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not 
believe the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik.


I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet 
maintains MCS 0 for uplink and downlink.


The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from 
last night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty 
to do a little better than 0.


Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

[AFMUG] Credit card irregularities.

[Chuck McCown]

This has been covered here before.  I am considering buying something from my 
own company.  Have Jenny run my personal card on her company square reader.  

Not sure if that violates any kind of AUP.  Hate to get her merchant account 
shut down.  It is a woman owned business with her owning more than half.  I 
don’t technically work there.  I am not on the payroll.  

How risky is this?

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

[George Skorup]

I didn't see any difference in performance going from 13.1.3 to 13.4.1.

On 7/6/2016 9:41 AM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:


Chris in the interest of muddying the waters more and contradicting 
what Sean just said. We also are using 13.4.1 on all APs since we were 
collocating with 450i. Its been very stable for us as well and I did 
not notice any week signal connections becoming worse. The 
contradiction is we did not upgrade SM firmware. Most are still on 
10.5. I know we should but many are being replaced by epmp or 450i. 
maybe you should define a week connection.


Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Christopher Gray
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 4:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

I upgraded a system that had a mix of firmware ranging 7.x to 12.x. I 
moved everything to 13.4.1.


I'm seeing stability issues. Weak links or high interference links are 
dropping regularly where they were not dropping in the past. Decent 
links appear to be holding 2X modulation better, but I need to keep 
the weaker links up.


Is there a consensus or at least good recommendation regarding the 
most stable firmware for the 900MHz PMP100?


Thank you - Chris

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are sending a 
loud 60 cycle tone.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical code 
compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen trees and rocks 
isn't going to happen. There is the slight possibility of electrical inspection 
based on where the power would be coming from. 

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can output 54.5VDC 
and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things back to normal 46-48VDC 
will work.  


AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41

DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71




On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

  Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



bp


On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is 
less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut for 
various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few 
things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be cut 
to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude. 

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios 
on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels batteries 
enclosure, charge controller. 


Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see 
2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

  For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small 
solar setup. What is the latitude?


  bp
   


  On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP 
radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from 
where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small 
NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a 
SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, 
how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time. 
Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible 
if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical code
compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen trees and
rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight possibility of electrical
inspection based on where the power would be coming from.

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can output
54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things back to
normal 46-48VDC will work.

AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>
> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is
> less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut
> for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a
> few things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would
> be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.
>
> With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios
> on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels
> batteries enclosure, charge controller.
>
> Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see
> 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small
>> solar setup. What is the latitude?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>
>>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
>>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>>
>>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
>>> NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing
>>> a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>>
>>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
>>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
>>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>>
>>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how
>>> would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time.
>>> Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less
>>> flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] extending a 25g tower on American Tower property

[Josh Luthman]

Uh no.  You're covering your ass.

You're after a NTP (notice to proceed) from American Tower.  The city would
do permits.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We have a customer with equipment on an American Tower property. They have
> their own shed on the property with a 20' 25 g tower attached. They have us
> and a second WISP on their 25g, but our service requires another 10-30 feet
> depending on how much better they want the service
>
> They want us to do the tower. I told the bosses absolutely not without
> some sort of build permit directly from American Tower.
>
> Am I being a dick about this?
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] extending a 25g tower on American Tower property

[Bill Prince]

If they have their own shed, and their own 25G on the property, they 
have some sort of extraordinary arrangement with AT already. They should 
not get you involved in what they want to "enhance", they should deal 
directly with AT.



bp


On 7/6/2016 9:55 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
We have a customer with equipment on an American Tower property. They 
have their own shed on the property with a 20' 25 g tower attached. 
They have us and a second WISP on their 25g, but our service requires 
another 10-30 feet depending on how much better they want the service


They want us to do the tower. I told the bosses absolutely not without 
some sort of build permit directly from American Tower.


Am I being a dick about this?

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] extending a 25g tower on American Tower property

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

We have a customer with equipment on an American Tower property. They have
their own shed on the property with a 20' 25 g tower attached. They have us
and a second WISP on their 25g, but our service requires another 10-30 feet
depending on how much better they want the service

They want us to do the tower. I told the bosses absolutely not without some
sort of build permit directly from American Tower.

Am I being a dick about this?

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Bill Prince]

Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...


bp


On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
*From:* Eric Kuhnke 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is 
less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be 
cut for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. 
Branches and a few things in one particular direction (about 10 
degrees of azimuth) would be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 
latitude.


With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of 
radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of 
panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.


Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might 
see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince > wrote:


For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do
a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


bp



On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link
where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree on the
opposite side of a mountain from where AC power, a router and
other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a
small NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of
the hill, containing a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a
meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage
drop calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a
56VDC power supply at the power source, dropping to not lower
than 35VDC at the receiving end, which will be fed into a
DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for the
radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a
forest, how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up
over a long enough time. Ideally something that is more
armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible if needed).
Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is less...  
Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut for various 
reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in 
one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be cut to put in 
the PTP link. North of 49 latitude. 

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios on 
the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels batteries 
enclosure, charge controller. 


Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see 2-3 
hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

  For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small 
solar setup. What is the latitude?


  bp
   


  On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP radio 
will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC 
power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X 
junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC 
patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how 
would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time. 
Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible 
if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is
less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut
for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a
few things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would
be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios
on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels
batteries enclosure, charge controller.

Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see
2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small
> solar setup. What is the latitude?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>
>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X
>> junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC
>> patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>
>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>
>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how
>> would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time.
>> Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less
>> flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

I have run lotsa direct burial romex over the ground to do things like this.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

That's more in $/ft than 14-2 UF-NMC cable, which I am seeing at $0.25/ft from 
the local Platt electric before any discounts are applied...




On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Jason Wilson  wrote:

  I also would go the conduit route BUT if you were to go with your 
original plan I would use landscape wire 
http://www.lowes.com/pd/100-ft-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-Landscape-Lighting-Cable/21006




  Jason Wilson
  Remotely Located
  Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
  530-651-1736
  530-748-9608 Cell
  www.remotelylocated.com

  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

I would recommend conduit at least. We have trouble with exposed cat5 
getting chewed on by critters when we lay it through the woods. It'd be a bit 
of labor to pull it through but much more protection. You could do flat drop 
fiber and save enough cost over armored to pay for the conduit. 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

  It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no 
practical/economical way to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters of 
code-compliant 240VAC through this particular section of forest. 


  Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that 
3-conductor 14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per foot 
than 18 gauge SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem. It's 
intended for direct burial but in this case would go through a forest taped to 
an armored fiber cable. In a few years falling leaves and such will cover it. 


  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to 
stay "low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons. 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien  
wrote:

  I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled 
into conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be much 
cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other options. 
1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice kits for it 
to make a waterproof buried splice. 

  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke  
wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a 
PTP radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from 
where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.


We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small 
NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a 
SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.


It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.


If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a 
forest, how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long 
enough time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much 
less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Bill Prince]

For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a 
small solar setup. What is the latitude?



bp


On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP 
radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain 
from where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.


We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small 
NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, 
containing a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.


It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power 
supply at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the 
receiving end, which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the 
output back up to 52.5VDC for the radio.


If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, 
how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long 
enough time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can 
be much less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

That's more in $/ft than 14-2 UF-NMC cable, which I am seeing at $0.25/ft
from the local Platt electric before any discounts are applied...



On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> I also would go the conduit route BUT if you were to go with your
> original plan I would use landscape wire
> http://www.lowes.com/pd/100-ft-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-Landscape-Lighting-Cable/21006
>
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> I would recommend conduit at least. We have trouble with exposed cat5
>> getting chewed on by critters when we lay it through the woods. It'd be a
>> bit of labor to pull it through but much more protection. You could do flat
>> drop fiber and save enough cost over armored to pay for the conduit.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no
>>> practical/economical way to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters
>>> of code-compliant 240VAC through this particular section of forest.
>>>
>>> Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that
>>> 3-conductor 14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per
>>> foot than 18 gauge SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem.
>>> It's intended for direct burial but in this case would go through a forest
>>> taped to an armored fiber cable. In a few years falling leaves and such
>>> will cover it.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to
 stay "low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons.

 On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

> I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled
> into conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be
> much cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other
> options. 1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury 
> splice
> kits for it to make a waterproof buried splice.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain 
>> from
>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>
>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
>> NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, 
>> containing
>> a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>
>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power 
>> supply
>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving 
>> end,
>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>
>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest,
>> how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough
>> time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much
>> less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[Justin Wilson]

Ill add a little more here.  Cogent tends to bring some of their grief on 
themselves. Here in Indiana their rack used to be the worst, by far, in the 
carrier hotel.  You could not see the switches due to the fiber covering them.  
They would send out maintenance notices and then end up doing them two days 
early.

Cogent support is excellent. I do not like the fact you know how to get a sale 
person involved to turn up BGP or modify BGP.  PITA.

Network wise they have a solid network.  It’s like any other provider.  In 
today’s age everyone has problems.  For the money you can’t beat them.  
Performance is acceptable and not borderline, but again sometimes it depends on 
where you are. I would definitely recommend them as part of your blend.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Jul 3, 2016, at 8:31 AM, Paul Stewart  wrote:
> 
> It’s an old arrangement that hasn’t been reviewed in long time … and I’m fine 
> with that J  They used to publish their peering agreement but they don’t any 
> longer.  At the time, we met most of their requirements though (but not all)… 
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: July 2, 2016 2:34 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cogent
>  
> I would also like to point out that very few networks on this list (I'm 
> surprised you are) would have the scale to peer with Cogent. I ws referring 
> to using BGP communities to limit one's Cogent transit to their customers 
> only.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Paul Stewart" >
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 12:34:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cogent
> 
> Not sure what there is to take advantage of … we prefer peering always over 
> transit.  PNI higher than public peering – pretty standard stuff for a lot of 
> networks….
>  
> 75k or so routes from them on-net of which about 35k are “best route” against 
> other peered route options to their customers.
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: July 2, 2016 8:49 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cogent
>  
> I think you need some BGP tweaks to better take advantage of Cogent, given 
> the scale of their network.
> 
> http://bgp.he.net/report/peers 
> http://as-rank.caida.org/ 
> http://research.dyn.com/2016/04/a-bakers-dozen-2015-edition/ 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Paul Stewart" >
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:23:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cogent
> 
> That number of directly connected customers is dropping … we used to buy 
> transit from them a number of years back – a lot of issues with routing in 
> different regions, mainly in the US … then we dropped their transit and 
> peered with them on PNI’s.  The traffic (which is only their on-net traffic 
> to be specific) hasn’t changed much in last couple of years, I think it’s 
> actually dropped some – but regardless it accounts for only 3% of our traffic 
> in total ….
>  
> Paul
>  
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Peter Kranz
> Sent: July 2, 2016 2:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cogent
>  
> Cogent is great as long as you have another peer 

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

Who needs a permit.  Just one long extension cord.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 7:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no practical/economical way 
to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters of code-compliant 240VAC 
through this particular section of forest. 


Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that 3-conductor 
14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per foot than 18 gauge 
SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem. It's intended for direct 
burial but in this case would go through a forest taped to an armored fiber 
cable. In a few years falling leaves and such will cover it. 


On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

  I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to stay 
"low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons. 

  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled into 
conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be much 
cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other options. 
1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice kits for it 
to make a waterproof buried splice. 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

  Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP 
radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from 
where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.


  We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X 
junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC 
patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.


  It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.


  If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how 
would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time. 
Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible 
if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Chris in the interest of muddying the waters more and contradicting what Sean 
just said. We also are using 13.4.1 on all APs since we were collocating with 
450i. Its been very stable for us as well and I did not notice any week signal 
connections becoming worse. The contradiction is we did not upgrade SM 
firmware. Most are still on 10.5. I know we should but many are being replaced 
by epmp or 450i. maybe you should define a week connection. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 4:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

 

I upgraded a system that had a mix of firmware ranging 7.x to 12.x. I moved 
everything to 13.4.1.

 

I'm seeing stability issues. Weak links or high interference links are dropping 
regularly where they were not dropping in the past. Decent links appear to be 
holding 2X modulation better, but I need to keep the weaker links up. 

 

Is there a consensus or at least good recommendation regarding the most stable 
firmware for the 900MHz PMP100?

 

Thank you - Chris

Re: [AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Ive noticed at much below what it says is 25 snr, the MCS does whatever the
hell it wants

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not
> believe the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik.
>
> I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet
> maintains MCS 0 for uplink and downlink.
>
> The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from last
> night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty to do a
> little better than 0.
>
> Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

[Sean Heskett]

All of mine are on 13.4.1 and are as stable as 900mhz can be.  Make sure no
SMs are lower than 13.x with the AP above 13.x that will cause stability
issues.

-Sean


On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Christopher Gray 
wrote:

> I upgraded a system that had a mix of firmware ranging 7.x to 12.x. I
> moved everything to 13.4.1.
>
> I'm seeing stability issues. Weak links or high interference links are
> dropping regularly where they were not dropping in the past. Decent links
> appear to be holding 2X modulation better, but I need to keep the weaker
> links up.
>
> Is there a consensus or at least good recommendation regarding the most
> stable firmware for the 900MHz PMP100?
>
> Thank you - Chris
>

[AFMUG] Plenty of SNR, MCS 0

[Mike Hammett]

Has the SNR reading on the ePMP series proven accurate? I know to not believe 
the UBNT AirMax one and IIRC, the same with Mikrotik. 

I have a link that has 23 dB of SNR (from both sides of a PtP), yet maintains 
MCS 0 for uplink and downlink. 

The link is down about 10 dB for some unknown reason (maybe wind from last 
night's storm blew one of the ends), but 23 dB should be plenty to do a little 
better than 0. 

Running 2.6.2 and both sides have been rebooted. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

[AFMUG] PMP100 900MHz Best Firmware?

[Christopher Gray]

I upgraded a system that had a mix of firmware ranging 7.x to 12.x. I moved
everything to 13.4.1.

I'm seeing stability issues. Weak links or high interference links are
dropping regularly where they were not dropping in the past. Decent links
appear to be holding 2X modulation better, but I need to keep the weaker
links up.

Is there a consensus or at least good recommendation regarding the most
stable firmware for the 900MHz PMP100?

Thank you - Chris