Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Eric Kuhnke]

If you can get the VPI/VCI information try a Huawei HG610. Operates as a
true bridge. It'll do ADSL2+ or VDSL2 with pretty much any DSLAM.  It's a
cheap DSL modem, the only thing that might fail in it is a capacitor (if
you're super paranoid replace the cheap capacitors before deploying it).





On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 8:13 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router is
> a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any
> IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the
> inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just
> need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?
> I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a
> Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Jesse DuPont]

  I'm curious why my
traffic isn't' reflecting this. I'll
look into routes and make sure it
all looks right. On another note;
has anyone been following this whole
Google - Comcast IPv6 kerfluffle? 


-Ty
  
  

  

  
  
  -Ty

  


On Tue, May
  3, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net>
  wrote:
  

  Yeah,
I think AWS is the last
thing that people really
care about *not* on IPv6.
  
  
  

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing
  Solutions

Midwest Internet
  Exchange

The Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
From:
"Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday,
      May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM
          
        
  Subject: Re:
  [AFMUG] DSL Router
  Recommendations
  
  OH
REALLY?!?
  WOW!
*whistles"
  SO NOW I
KNOW!!! :O
  
*grin*
  I think
one of the last
remaining large
holdouts is AWS as a
whole. (There are
parts ipv6 enabled,
but it's still a
mess.)
  Other
than that, as
Service Providers
we're probably going
to end up having at
least a rudimentary
CGNAT deployment for
a decade if not
more, especially for
those of us with
  

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Luthman]

gt;
>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>
>> Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>
>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>> On 5/3/16 8:23 AM, Ty Featherling wrote:
>>
>> I'm curious why my traffic isn't' reflecting this. I'll look into routes
>> and make sure it all looks right. On another note; has anyone been
>> following this whole Google - Comcast IPv6 kerfluffle?
>>
>> -Ty
>>
>>
>>
>> -Ty
>>
>> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Mike Hammett < 
>> af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I think AWS is the last thing that people really care about *not*
>>> on IPv6.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>>>
>>> OH REALLY?!?
>>>
>>> WOW! *whistles"
>>>
>>> SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O
>>>
>>>  *grin*
>>>
>>> I think one of the last remaining large holdouts is AWS as a whole.
>>> (There are parts ipv6 enabled, but it's still a mess.)
>>>
>>> Other than that, as Service Providers we're probably going to end up
>>> having at least a rudimentary CGNAT deployment for a decade if not more,
>>> especially for those of us with large/old industrial/banking/healthcare
>>> customers...
>>>
>>> ... For stuff that should have been retired 20 years ago but is CRITICAL
>>> to their business, and won't run ipv6.
>>>
>>> (For a perfect example of old tech still in use, Google "Compaq laptop
>>> McLaren" :P )
>>> On May 3, 2016 8:45 AM, "Mike Hammett" < 
>>> af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Traffic going IPv6 will bypass NAT end-to-end.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com>
>>> *To: * af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:41:28 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>>>
>>> To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the
>>> foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a
>>> public IPV4 as well :P
>>>
>>> Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(
>>>
>>> Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those
>>> are really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless
>>> of if they are officially called that or not.
>&

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Jesse DuPont]

   (PD). This meant his router was receiving a global v6
  prefix and advertising it on his LAN, but wasn't getting a
  global V6 address on it's WAN port (which isn't needed for
  v6 routing, but could be needed if the router is doing DNS
  proxy using v6 DNS servers, for example). Once I let his
  router's WAN port have a global v6 address along with his
  delegated prefix for the LAN, all was golden again.
  
  

  Jesse DuPont
  
Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC
Celerity Broadband LLC
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

  

  
  

  On 5/3/16 8:23 AM, Ty Featherling wrote:
  
  
I'm curious why my traffic isn't'
  reflecting this. I'll look into routes and make
  sure it all looks right. On another note; has
  anyone been following this whole Google - Comcast
  IPv6 kerfluffle? 
  
  
  -Ty


  

  


-Ty
  

  
  
  On Tue, May 3, 2016 at
9:20 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net>
wrote:

  
Yeah, I think AWS is the
  last thing that people really care about
  *not* on IPv6.



  
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent
Computing Solutions
  
  Midwest Internet
Exchange
  
  The Brothers WISP
  


  


  From:
  "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
        Sent: Tuesday, May 3,
    2016 9:11:38 AM

  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL
Router Recommendations

OH REALLY?!?
WOW! *whistles"
SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O
 *grin*
I think one of the last
  remaining large holdouts is AWS as
  a whole. (There are parts ipv6
  enabled, but it's still a mess.)
Other than that, as
  Service Providers we're probably
  going to end up having at least a
  rudimentary CGNAT deployment for a
  decade if not more, especially for
  those of us with large/old
  industrial/banking/healthcare
  customers...
... For stuff that
  should have been retired 20 years
  ago but is CRITICAL to their
  business, and won't run ipv6.
(For a perfect example
  of old tech still in use, Google
 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Luthman]

Do you mind if I ask how you're managing v6?  How are you allotting
customer blocks/IPs?

How do you hand off the v6?  DHCPv6?  SLAAC?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Jesse DuPont  wrote:

> We're 100% dual-stacked, v4/v6. If a customer's router supports v6,
> they'll get a prefix from us. Here are the interesting points:
>
>1. About 40% of all our customer have a v6 prefix (i.e. at a minimum
>their routers support v6).
>2. Any router we sell is configured by the installer for v6 (forcing
>the adoption :) )
>3. We do graph v4 and v6 separately (at the edge) and about 10-12% of
>all our traffic is consistently v6. Sometimes it jumps up to 20% for a
>while. This holds true for both directions.
>
> To expand on what Dennis said, just because someone gets a v6 prefix,
> doesn't mean they'll have a lot of v6 traffic. It seems while most modern
> mobile phones, tablets and Win 8/10 and Mac OS X (combined with modern
> browsers and apps) readily use v6, most smart TVs/streaming boxes AREN'T
> using v6 yet (I think the new Apple TV might be). So even though Netflix is
> v6 capable, the majority of playing devices aren't so therefore it happens
> over v4.
>
> *Other somewhat interesting, slightly OT v6 stuff:*
> As an experiment, I watched Torch of an iPad streaming a Netflix movie.
> The iPad had both v4 and v6 global. Of course, with any HLS, the player is
> downloading 10s or 20s segments at a time. When it would download the next
> segment it did it with 4 separate TCP substreams (not abnormal), but it
> would switch between v6 and v4, often times using both at the same time.
> One segment would be three v6 substreams and one v4 substream, next time it
> would be 2/2, and so on. Contrast that with Youtube, which on a v6 device,
> will be 100% over v6; same with Facebook.
>
> Separately: I had a customer call in last week; his DirecTV DVR quit
> working consistently (no guide data, couldn't connect) and when it did, it
> would only work for a while, then quit again. Two things were happening: I
> had one v6 DNS server down for a few days. Most everything used the
> secondary DNS server, but not his network. 2nd thing: At that site, I was
> only doing prefix delegation (PD). This meant his router was receiving a
> global v6 prefix and advertising it on his LAN, but wasn't getting a global
> V6 address on it's WAN port (which isn't needed for v6 routing, but could
> be needed if the router is doing DNS proxy using v6 DNS servers, for
> example). Once I let his router's WAN port have a global v6 address along
> with his delegated prefix for the LAN, all was golden again.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
> On 5/3/16 8:23 AM, Ty Featherling wrote:
>
> I'm curious why my traffic isn't' reflecting this. I'll look into routes
> and make sure it all looks right. On another note; has anyone been
> following this whole Google - Comcast IPv6 kerfluffle?
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I think AWS is the last thing that people really care about *not*
>> on IPv6.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>>
>> OH REALLY?!?
>>
>> WOW! *whistles"
>>
>> SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O
>>
>>  *grin*
>>
>> I think one of the last remaining large holdouts is AWS as a whole.

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
We're 100% dual-stacked, v4/v6. If a customer's router supports v6,
they'll get a prefix from us. Here are the interesting points:

  About 40% of all our customer have a v6 prefix (i.e. at a
minimum their routers support v6).
  Any router we sell is configured by the installer for v6
(forcing the adoption :) )
  
  We do graph v4 and v6 separately (at the edge) and about
10-12% of all our traffic is consistently v6. Sometimes it jumps
up to 20% for a while. This holds true for both directions.
  

To expand on what Dennis said, just because someone gets a v6
prefix, doesn't mean they'll have a lot of v6 traffic. It seems
while most modern mobile phones, tablets and Win 8/10 and Mac OS X
(combined with modern browsers and apps) readily use v6, most smart
TVs/streaming boxes AREN'T using v6 yet (I think the new Apple TV
might be). So even though Netflix is v6 capable, the majority of
playing devices aren't so therefore it happens over v4.

Other somewhat interesting, slightly OT v6 stuff:
As an experiment, I watched Torch of an iPad streaming a Netflix
movie. The iPad had both v4 and v6 global. Of course, with any HLS,
the player is downloading 10s or 20s segments at a time. When it
would download the next segment it did it with 4 separate TCP
substreams (not abnormal), but it would switch between v6 and v4,
often times using both at the same time. One segment would be three
v6 substreams and one v4 substream, next time it would be 2/2, and
so on. Contrast that with Youtube, which on a v6 device, will be
100% over v6; same with Facebook.

Separately: I had a customer call in last week; his DirecTV DVR quit
working consistently (no guide data, couldn't connect) and when it
did, it would only work for a while, then quit again. Two things
were happening: I had one v6 DNS server down for a few days. Most
everything used the secondary DNS server, but not his network. 2nd
thing: At that site, I was only doing prefix delegation (PD). This
meant his router was receiving a global v6 prefix and advertising it
on his LAN, but wasn't getting a global V6 address on it's WAN port
(which isn't needed for v6 routing, but could be needed if the
router is doing DNS proxy using v6 DNS servers, for example). Once I
let his router's WAN port have a global v6 address along with his
delegated prefix for the LAN, all was golden again.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 5/3/16 8:23 AM, Ty Featherling
  wrote:


  I'm curious why my traffic isn't' reflecting this.
I'll look into routes and make sure it all looks right. On
another note; has anyone been following this whole Google -
Comcast IPv6 kerfluffle? 


-Ty
  
  

  

  
  
  -Ty

  


On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Mike
  Hammett <af...@ics-il.net>
  wrote:
  

  Yeah, I
think AWS is the last thing that people really care
about *not* on IPv6.
  
  
  

-
Mike
  Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM
  
    
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router
  Recommendations
  
  OH REALLY?!?
  WOW! *whistles"
  SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O
   *grin*
  I think one of the last remaining
large holdouts is AWS as a whole. (There are
parts ipv6 enabled, but it's still a mess.)
  Other than that, as Service Providers
  

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Dennis Burgess]

Getting the customers to get a IPv6 address, and/or have their routers do a v6 
PD is the issue.

[DennisBurgessSignature]
www.linktechs.net<http://www.linktechs.net/> – 314-735-0270 x103 – 
dmburg...@linktechs.net<mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net>

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ty Featherling
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I'm curious why my traffic isn't' reflecting this. I'll look into routes and 
make sure it all looks right. On another note; has anyone been following this 
whole Google - Comcast IPv6 kerfluffle?

-Ty



-Ty

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Mike Hammett 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Yeah, I think AWS is the last thing that people really care about *not* on IPv6.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Josh Reynolds" mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

OH REALLY?!?

WOW! *whistles"

SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O

 *grin*

I think one of the last remaining large holdouts is AWS as a whole. (There are 
parts ipv6 enabled, but it's still a mess.)

Other than that, as Service Providers we're probably going to end up having at 
least a rudimentary CGNAT deployment for a decade if not more, especially for 
those of us with large/old industrial/banking/healthcare customers...

... For stuff that should have been retired 20 years ago but is CRITICAL to 
their business, and won't run ipv6.

(For a perfect example of old tech still in use, Google "Compaq laptop McLaren" 
:P )
On May 3, 2016 8:45 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Traffic going IPv6 will bypass NAT end-to-end.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Josh Reynolds" mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:41:28 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the 
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a 
public IPV4 as well :P

Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(

Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those are 
really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless of if 
they are officially called that or not.

(Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people following 
along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6 transition.)
On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena targets? 
It&

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Ken Hohhof]

You’d be surprised what people really care about.

Heck, I have customers who complain that our VoIP ATAs don’t work with their 
pulse dial phones.  My old phone company didn’t require me to buy a newfangled 
touch tone phone, I don’t like change, why are you making me change?


From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 9:20 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

Yeah, I think AWS is the last thing that people really care about *not* on IPv6.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations


OH REALLY?!?

WOW! *whistles"

SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O

 *grin*

I think one of the last remaining large holdouts is AWS as a whole. (There are 
parts ipv6 enabled, but it's still a mess.)

Other than that, as Service Providers we're probably going to end up having at 
least a rudimentary CGNAT deployment for a decade if not more, especially for 
those of us with large/old industrial/banking/healthcare customers...

... For stuff that should have been retired 20 years ago but is CRITICAL to 
their business, and won't run ipv6.

(For a perfect example of old tech still in use, Google "Compaq laptop McLaren" 
:P )

On May 3, 2016 8:45 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  Traffic going IPv6 will bypass NAT end-to-end. 






  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:41:28 AM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations


  To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the 
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a 
public IPV4 as well :P

  Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(

  Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those are 
really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless of if 
they are officially called that or not.

  (Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people 
following along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6 
transition.)

  On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena 
targets? It's impacting your functionality.

Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

Seth,

I think it is pick your battles when you can.  Some of use run at 100% 
capacity in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do whatever 
the "other" things are.  And there are a LOT of those "other" things for 
growing companies.

We all know it's important.  But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to 
hit it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" 
take that time, at that time :)



-Original Message-
    From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Ty Featherling]

I'm curious why my traffic isn't' reflecting this. I'll look into routes
and make sure it all looks right. On another note; has anyone been
following this whole Google - Comcast IPv6 kerfluffle?

-Ty



-Ty

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Yeah, I think AWS is the last thing that people really care about *not* on
> IPv6.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
> OH REALLY?!?
>
> WOW! *whistles"
>
> SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O
>
>  *grin*
>
> I think one of the last remaining large holdouts is AWS as a whole. (There
> are parts ipv6 enabled, but it's still a mess.)
>
> Other than that, as Service Providers we're probably going to end up
> having at least a rudimentary CGNAT deployment for a decade if not more,
> especially for those of us with large/old industrial/banking/healthcare
> customers...
>
> ... For stuff that should have been retired 20 years ago but is CRITICAL
> to their business, and won't run ipv6.
>
> (For a perfect example of old tech still in use, Google "Compaq laptop
> McLaren" :P )
> On May 3, 2016 8:45 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> Traffic going IPv6 will bypass NAT end-to-end.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:41:28 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
> To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the
> foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a
> public IPV4 as well :P
>
> Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(
>
> Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those
> are really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless
> of if they are officially called that or not.
>
> (Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people
> following along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6
> transition.)
> On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena
>> targets? It's impacting your functionality.
>>
>> Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfx

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

Yeah, I think AWS is the last thing that people really care about *not* on 
IPv6. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:11:38 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 


OH REALLY?!? 
WOW! *whistles" 
SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O 
 *grin* 
I think one of the last remaining large holdouts is AWS as a whole. (There are 
parts ipv6 enabled, but it's still a mess.) 
Other than that, as Service Providers we're probably going to end up having at 
least a rudimentary CGNAT deployment for a decade if not more, especially for 
those of us with large/old industrial/banking/healthcare customers... 
... For stuff that should have been retired 20 years ago but is CRITICAL to 
their business, and won't run ipv6. 
(For a perfect example of old tech still in use, Google "Compaq laptop McLaren" 
:P ) 
On May 3, 2016 8:45 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Traffic going IPv6 will bypass NAT end-to-end. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:41:28 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 


To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the 
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a 
public IPV4 as well :P 
Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :( 
Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those are 
really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless of if 
they are officially called that or not. 
(Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people following 
along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6 transition.) 
On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena targets? 
It's impacting your functionality. 

Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

Seth, 

I think it is pick your battles when you can. Some of use run at 100% capacity 
in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do whatever the 
"other" things are. And there are a LOT of those "other" things for growing 
companies. 

We all know it's important. But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to hit 
it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" take 
that time, at that time :) 



-----Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6. 
> 

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me. 

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Reynolds]

OH REALLY?!?

WOW! *whistles"

SO NOW I KNOW!!! :O

 *grin*

I think one of the last remaining large holdouts is AWS as a whole. (There
are parts ipv6 enabled, but it's still a mess.)

Other than that, as Service Providers we're probably going to end up having
at least a rudimentary CGNAT deployment for a decade if not more,
especially for those of us with large/old industrial/banking/healthcare
customers...

... For stuff that should have been retired 20 years ago but is CRITICAL to
their business, and won't run ipv6.

(For a perfect example of old tech still in use, Google "Compaq laptop
McLaren" :P )
On May 3, 2016 8:45 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

Traffic going IPv6 will bypass NAT end-to-end.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
--------------
*From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:41:28 AM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a
public IPV4 as well :P

Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(

Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those
are really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless
of if they are officially called that or not.

(Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people
following along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6
transition.)
On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena
> targets? It's impacting your functionality.
>
> Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Paul McCall" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
> Seth,
>
> I think it is pick your battles when you can.  Some of use run at 100%
> capacity in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do
> whatever the "other" things are.  And there are a LOT of those "other"
> things for growing companies.
>
> We all know it's important.  But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to
> hit it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can
> "easily" take that time, at that time :)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
> >
>
> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>
> ~Seth
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

Google reports that 25.76% of their US traffic is IPv6. 

Facebook reports that their IPv6 performance is 20% - 40% faster than IPv4. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ty Featherling"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:46:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 


Does anyone running a dual-stack network graph their IPv6 internet traffic? I 
only have my home traffic to compare to right now but the IPv6 is a trickle of 
the IPv4. Until the tipping point happens where enough of the internet CONTENT 
has moved to IPv6, then there will not be anything driving adoption in a real 
way. 


-Ty 








-Ty 

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the 
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a 
public IPV4 as well :P 
Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :( 
Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those are 
really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless of if 
they are officially called that or not. 
(Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people following 
along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6 transition.) 


On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena targets? 
It's impacting your functionality. 

Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

Seth, 

I think it is pick your battles when you can. Some of use run at 100% capacity 
in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do whatever the 
"other" things are. And there are a LOT of those "other" things for growing 
companies. 

We all know it's important. But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to hit 
it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" take 
that time, at that time :) 



-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6. 
> 

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me. 

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

Google as well. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Cassidy B. Larson"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:56:08 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

Netflix and Facebook natively work over IPv6. That should be the majority of 
the Internet content right there. The next trick is getting all your users able 
to access it. 





On May 3, 2016, at 7:46 AM, Ty Featherling < tyfeatherl...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Does anyone running a dual-stack network graph their IPv6 internet traffic? I 
only have my home traffic to compare to right now but the IPv6 is a trickle of 
the IPv4. Until the tipping point happens where enough of the internet CONTENT 
has moved to IPv6, then there will not be anything driving adoption in a real 
way. 


-Ty 








-Ty 

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the 
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a 
public IPV4 as well :P 
Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :( 
Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those are 
really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless of if 
they are officially called that or not. 
(Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people following 
along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6 transition.) 


On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena targets? 
It's impacting your functionality. 

Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

Seth, 

I think it is pick your battles when you can. Some of use run at 100% capacity 
in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do whatever the 
"other" things are. And there are a LOT of those "other" things for growing 
companies. 

We all know it's important. But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to hit 
it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" take 
that time, at that time :) 



-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6. 
> 

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me. 

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Netflix and Facebook natively work over IPv6. That should be the majority of 
the Internet content right there. The next trick is getting all your users able 
to access it.

> On May 3, 2016, at 7:46 AM, Ty Featherling  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone running a dual-stack network graph their IPv6 internet traffic? I 
> only have my home traffic to compare to right now but the IPv6 is a trickle 
> of the IPv4. Until the tipping point happens where enough of the internet 
> CONTENT has moved to IPv6, then there will not be anything driving adoption 
> in a real way.
> 
> -Ty
> 
> 
> 
> -Ty
> 
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Josh Reynolds  <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
> To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the 
> foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a 
> public IPV4 as well :P
> 
> Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(
> 
> Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those are 
> really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless of if 
> they are officially called that or not.
> 
> (Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people 
> following along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6 
> transition.)
> 
> On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett"  <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena targets? 
> It's impacting your functionality.
> 
> Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
> 
> Seth,
> 
> I think it is pick your battles when you can.  Some of use run at 100% 
> capacity in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do 
> whatever the "other" things are.  And there are a LOT of those "other" things 
> for growing companies.
> 
> We all know it's important.  But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to 
> hit it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" 
> take that time, at that time :)
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
> 
> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
> >
> 
> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
> 
> ~Seth
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Zach Underwood]

Since most of the major websites are now ipv6 enabled (google,youtube,
facebook,xhamster, yahoo,wikipedia) you would expect to see about %20 of
traffic to be ipv6.

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Ty Featherling 
wrote:

> Does anyone running a dual-stack network graph their IPv6 internet
> traffic? I only have my home traffic to compare to right now but the IPv6
> is a trickle of the IPv4. Until the tipping point happens where enough of
> the internet CONTENT has moved to IPv6, then there will not be anything
> driving adoption in a real way.
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the
>> foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a
>> public IPV4 as well :P
>>
>> Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(
>>
>> Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those
>> are really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless
>> of if they are officially called that or not.
>>
>> (Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people
>> following along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6
>> transition.)
>> On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena
>>> targets? It's impacting your functionality.
>>>
>>> Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Paul McCall" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>>>
>>> Seth,
>>>
>>> I think it is pick your battles when you can.  Some of use run at 100%
>>> capacity in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do
>>> whatever the "other" things are.  And there are a LOT of those "other"
>>> things for growing companies.
>>>
>>> We all know it's important.  But, if it is so easy, then when it's time
>>> to hit it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can
>>> "easily" take that time, at that time :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>>>
>>> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>> > Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
>>> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>>>
>>> ~Seth
>>>
>>>
>


-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Reynolds]

To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a
public IPV4 as well :P

Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(

Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those
are really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless
of if they are officially called that or not.

(Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people
following along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6
transition.)
On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena
> targets? It's impacting your functionality.
>
> Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Paul McCall" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
> Seth,
>
> I think it is pick your battles when you can.  Some of use run at 100%
> capacity in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do
> whatever the "other" things are.  And there are a LOT of those "other"
> things for growing companies.
>
> We all know it's important.  But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to
> hit it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can
> "easily" take that time, at that time :)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
> >
>
> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>
> ~Seth
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Ty Featherling]

Does anyone running a dual-stack network graph their IPv6 internet traffic?
I only have my home traffic to compare to right now but the IPv6 is a
trickle of the IPv4. Until the tipping point happens where enough of the
internet CONTENT has moved to IPv6, then there will not be anything driving
adoption in a real way.

-Ty



-Ty

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the
> foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a
> public IPV4 as well :P
>
> Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :(
>
> Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those
> are really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless
> of if they are officially called that or not.
>
> (Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people
> following along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6
> transition.)
> On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena
>> targets? It's impacting your functionality.
>>
>> Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Paul McCall" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>>
>> Seth,
>>
>> I think it is pick your battles when you can.  Some of use run at 100%
>> capacity in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do
>> whatever the "other" things are.  And there are a LOT of those "other"
>> things for growing companies.
>>
>> We all know it's important.  But, if it is so easy, then when it's time
>> to hit it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can
>> "easily" take that time, at that time :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>>
>> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> > Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>> >
>>
>> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
>> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

Traffic going IPv6 will bypass NAT end-to-end. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:41:28 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 


To be technical, it's not going to remove NAT on your network for the 
foreseeable future unless when you add IPV6 that you also give everybody a 
public IPV4 as well :P 
Maybe a decade from now we'll be able to ditch NAT :( 
Yes, there are several v6/v4 and v4/v6 translation mechanisms, but those are 
really just different types of Network Address Translation, regardless of if 
they are officially called that or not. 
(Not that you don't know this Mike, I just don't want the nice people following 
along with the list to get the wrong information about the ipv6 transition.) 
On May 3, 2016 8:35 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena targets? 
It's impacting your functionality. 

Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

Seth, 

I think it is pick your battles when you can. Some of use run at 100% capacity 
in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do whatever the 
"other" things are. And there are a LOT of those "other" things for growing 
companies. 

We all know it's important. But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to hit 
it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" take 
that time, at that time :) 



-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6. 
> 

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me. 

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

Having NAT problems? Having problems tracking down DMCA or subpoena targets? 
It's impacting your functionality. 

Moving to IPv6 will also increase performance due to the removal of NAT. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 8:18:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

Seth, 

I think it is pick your battles when you can. Some of use run at 100% capacity 
in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do whatever the 
"other" things are. And there are a LOT of those "other" things for growing 
companies. 

We all know it's important. But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to hit 
it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" take 
that time, at that time :) 



-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6. 
> 

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me. 

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Luthman]

You're well come!!!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 3, 2016 9:17 AM, "Andy Trimmell"  wrote:

> “MOVE!”
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Justin Wilson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 03, 2016 9:09 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
>
>
> It’s the “typical IT person syndrome”.  If anyone has watched “Nick Burns,
> your company’s computer guy” on Saturday Night Live you learn that is all
> too real in many places.
>
>
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
>
> j...@mtin.net
>
>
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
>
>
> On May 3, 2016, at 7:36 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>
>
> Arrogance? Ignorance?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, May 2, 2016 11:55:01 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
> >
>
> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>
> ~Seth
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Paul McCall]

Seth,

I think it is pick your battles when you can.  Some of use run at 100% capacity 
in execution, and we have to carve out additional time to do whatever the 
"other" things are.  And there are a LOT of those "other" things for growing 
companies.

We all know it's important.  But, if it is so easy, then when it's time to hit 
it head on as it will being impacting our functionality, we can "easily" take 
that time, at that time :)



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 12:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Andy Trimmell]

“MOVE!”

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 9:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

 

It’s the “typical IT person syndrome”.  If anyone has watched “Nick Burns, your 
company’s computer guy” on Saturday Night Live you learn that is all too real 
in many places.

 

 

Justin Wilson

j...@mtin.net

 

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

 

On May 3, 2016, at 7:36 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

 

Arrogance? Ignorance?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> 


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 



From: "Seth Mattinen" 
    To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 11:55:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about 
things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.

~Seth

 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Justin Wilson]

It’s the “typical IT person syndrome”.  If anyone has watched “Nick Burns, your 
company’s computer guy” on Saturday Night Live you learn that is all too real 
in many places.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On May 3, 2016, at 7:36 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Arrogance? Ignorance?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Seth Mattinen" mailto:se...@rollernet.us>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 11:55:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
> 
> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
> >
> 
> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
> 
> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

Arrogance? Ignorance? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Seth Mattinen"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 11:55:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6. 
> 

Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me. 

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Reynolds]

s/was/wants/g

I need to stop writing emails at bedtime :(

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 12:00 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> I think this is the difference between someone/an org who just sees
> themselves as a small regional provider, and an entity that was to
> grow far beyond their current geographic borders.
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
>>> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>>>
>>
>> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
>> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>>
>> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Reynolds]

I think this is the difference between someone/an org who just sees
themselves as a small regional provider, and an entity that was to
grow far beyond their current geographic borders.

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>>
>
> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>
> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Reynolds]

+1000

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>>
>
> Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things
> directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.
>
> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Seth Mattinen]

On 5/2/16 11:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.



Why people running ISPs refuse to or are resistant to learn about things 
directly related to the business they claim to be in baffles me.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

For a lot of networks, it's work to stand still. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 12:30:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 

work 


On 5/2/2016 1:28 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



What downside? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 12:14:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 


The downside still exceeds the upside. Until that equation changes, there's not 
enough incentive. 

bp
 
On 5/2/2016 9:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 


Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP - Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman"  To: af@afmug.com Sent: 
Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations



Yes that'd be double NAT. Who cares about IPv6... 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 



It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, then 
put that router on a DMZ Address. Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then? And 
probably loose all the IPv6 then. 


On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 




Can you just set it to bridge? 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 


I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL. The AT&T router is a 
piece of Garbage. I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any IPV4 port 
forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses) On the inside of the 
network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a hardwired 
DSL router with no Wifi. Any recommendations for one? I'd love to use a 
Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a Routerboard with a DSL 
Port did they? 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Adam Moffett]

work

On 5/2/2016 1:28 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What downside?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Bill Prince" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, May 2, 2016 12:14:37 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

The downside still exceeds the upside. Until that equation changes, 
there's not enough incentive.



bp


On 5/2/2016 9:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP







From: "Josh Luthman"
    To:af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations



Yes that'd be double NAT. Who cares about IPv6...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:



It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, 
then put that router on a DMZ Address. Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then? And probably 
loose all the IPv6 then.


On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:




Can you just set it to bridge?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:


I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL. The AT&T router is a 
piece of Garbage. I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any IPV4 port 
forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses) On the inside of the network, I 
already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a hardwired DSL router with no 
Wifi. Any recommendations for one? I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they 
ever came out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

What downside? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 12:14:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations 


The downside still exceeds the upside. Until that equation changes, there's not 
enough incentive. 

bp
 
On 5/2/2016 9:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 


Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP - Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman"  To: af@afmug.com Sent: 
Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations



Yes that'd be double NAT. Who cares about IPv6... 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 



It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, then 
put that router on a DMZ Address. Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then? And 
probably loose all the IPv6 then. 


On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 




Can you just set it to bridge? 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 


I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL. The AT&T router is a 
piece of Garbage. I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any IPV4 port 
forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses) On the inside of the 
network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a hardwired 
DSL router with no Wifi. Any recommendations for one? I'd love to use a 
Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a Routerboard with a DSL 
Port did they? 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Ken Hohhof]

I’ll care about IPv6 when Fox News tells me to care about it.  Until then, I’m 
busy not caring about climate change.  Both are liberal plots to distract us 
from important issues like who uses what bathroom.  Get your priorities 
straight, people!


From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

The downside still exceeds the upside. Until that equation changes, there's not 
enough incentive.



bp


On 5/2/2016 9:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations



Yes that'd be double NAT. Who cares about IPv6... 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 



It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, then 
put that router on a DMZ Address. Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then? And 
probably loose all the IPv6 then. 


On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 




Can you just set it to bridge? 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 


I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL. The AT&T router is a 
piece of Garbage. I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any IPV4 port 
forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses) On the inside of the 
network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a hardwired 
DSL router with no Wifi. Any recommendations for one? I'd love to use a 
Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a Routerboard with a DSL 
Port did they? 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Bill Prince]

The downside still exceeds the upside. Until that equation changes, 
there's not enough incentive.



bp


On 5/2/2016 9:18 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations



Yes that'd be double NAT. Who cares about IPv6...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote:



It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, then 
put that router on a DMZ Address. Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then? And probably loose 
all the IPv6 then.


On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:




Can you just set it to bridge?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote:


I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL. The AT&T router is a 
piece of Garbage. I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any IPV4 port 
forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses) On the inside of the network, I 
already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a hardwired DSL router with no 
Wifi. Any recommendations for one? I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they 
ever came out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Luthman]

Life isn't fair. :P

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 2, 2016 12:18 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
>
> The Brothers WISP
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:18:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations
>
>
>
> Yes that'd be double NAT. Who cares about IPv6...
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote:
>
>
>
> It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it,
> then put that router on a DMZ Address. Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then?
> And probably loose all the IPv6 then.
>
>
> On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Can you just set it to bridge?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote:
>
>
> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL. The AT&T router is
> a piece of Garbage. I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any
> IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses) On the
> inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just
> need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi. Any recommendations for one? I'd
> love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a
> Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Mike Hammett]

Everyone *SHOULD* be caring about IPv6.



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations



Yes that'd be double NAT. Who cares about IPv6... 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 



It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, then 
put that router on a DMZ Address. Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then? And 
probably loose all the IPv6 then. 


On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 




Can you just set it to bridge? 

Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke" < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 


I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL. The AT&T router is a 
piece of Garbage. I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any IPV4 port 
forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses) On the inside of the 
network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a hardwired 
DSL router with no Wifi. Any recommendations for one? I'd love to use a 
Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a Routerboard with a DSL 
Port did they? 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Nate, 
What is the Model # on the Uvermodem you have ? 

And do you have Static IP address from ATT ? or just the normal dynamic ip's ?

I can send you appropriate docs on how to configure...
(Please ping me off list)

:)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
> From: "Nate Burke" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 11:13:24 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
> is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do
> any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On
> the inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so
> I just need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations
> for one?  I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came
> out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Ken Hohhof]

I know that I have UVerse at my office with a /29 block, and it is 
straightforward to put a router behind their device, I’m using an RB2011.  The 
default gateway is the highest IP address in the block.

If this is a business and they just have a dynamic IP address with DHCP/NAT, 
maybe suggest they upgrade to a static IP block, I don’t think it cost that 
much.


From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2016 6:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

You can request a different modem/router.  UVerse offers their business class 
users a Netgear model that does have bridge mode.

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

  It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, then 
put that router on a DMZ Address.  Wouldn't that mean Double NAT Then?  And 
probably loose all the IPv6 then. 



  On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Can you just set it to bridge?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

  I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router 
is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any 
IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the inside 
of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a 
hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?  I'd love to 
use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a Routerboard with a 
DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Baird]

You can request a different modem/router.  UVerse offers their business
class users a Netgear model that does have bridge mode.

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it,
> then put that router on a DMZ Address.  Wouldn't that mean Double NAT
> Then?  And probably loose all the IPv6 then.
>
>
> On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Can you just set it to bridge?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>
>> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
>> is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any
>> IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the
>> inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just
>> need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?
>> I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a
>> Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[David Kunat]

Can you set the att device as a bridge?

Then you can get any off the shelf router with ppoe support (xyxel Usg or 
er-lite would be my suggestion) and put the Dsl credentials in your new router.

> On May 1, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router is a 
> piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any IPV4 
> port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the inside of 
> the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a 
> hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?  I'd love to 
> use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a Routerboard with 
> a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Jason McKemie]

I was able to configure one to "pass" the public IP address over to a
router behind the at&t unit. Can't remember the exact setting, it was a bit
convoluted though. Not sure why they don't just have a bridge setting.

On Sunday, May 1, 2016, Nate Burke  wrote:

> It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it,
> then put that router on a DMZ Address.  Wouldn't that mean Double NAT
> Then?  And probably loose all the IPv6 then.
>
> On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Can you just set it to bridge?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke"  > wrote:
>
>> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
>> is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any
>> IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the
>> inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just
>> need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?
>> I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a
>> Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Trey Scarborough]

On the ATT 2wire routers it no longer has an option for bridge. I think 
they wanted to make certain they have access to upgrade them. Instead 
they have a feature called pinhole I believe. Look for it in the 
firewall settings. Basically you tell it the mac you want it to go to 
and it does a proxy arp for the public address you get. So both the 
2wire and your router have the same address on the on the outside, but 
it forwards all the traffic in to the pinhole mac.



On 5/1/2016 11:12 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Is it ADSL, or UVerse?

Back when I did ADSL, I used Zhone 6211/6212, but I think those are
discontinued now.


-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I might be able to find them.  I'm not sure I even saw those settings in
the current DSL Router.  It came from AT&T and just worked.  In the
current DSL World, are things still PPPoE, or since they have a pair of
wires back to the DSLAM, the authenticate you that way?

I was just converting a customer from Frontier that had a Nighthawk
Router.  I didn't pay too much attention to it, but it had a Drop down
box to select your DSL Provider.  I don't remember if it had PPPoE
Settings in it or not.



On 5/1/2016 10:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I would get any cheap DSL modem and set it for RFC1483 bridging with
VPI=0 and VCI=35.  Last time I needed one, I found one from Actiontec
at Best Buy or Frys.  The Frys website says they are out of stock at
the Downers Grove store though.

Then set up your router of choice to do PPPoE, I assume you know the
customer's PPPoE credentials.


-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:13 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do
any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On
the inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so
I just need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations
for one?  I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came
out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Nate Burke]

It must be Uverse, It's on a dedicated pair.  No Dialtone on the line.

On 5/1/2016 11:12 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Is it ADSL, or UVerse?

Back when I did ADSL, I used Zhone 6211/6212, but I think those are 
discontinued now.



-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I might be able to find them.  I'm not sure I even saw those settings in
the current DSL Router.  It came from AT&T and just worked. In the
current DSL World, are things still PPPoE, or since they have a pair of
wires back to the DSLAM, the authenticate you that way?

I was just converting a customer from Frontier that had a Nighthawk
Router.  I didn't pay too much attention to it, but it had a Drop down
box to select your DSL Provider.  I don't remember if it had PPPoE
Settings in it or not.



On 5/1/2016 10:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I would get any cheap DSL modem and set it for RFC1483 bridging with 
VPI=0 and VCI=35.  Last time I needed one, I found one from Actiontec 
at Best Buy or Frys.  The Frys website says they are out of stock at 
the Downers Grove store though.


Then set up your router of choice to do PPPoE, I assume you know the 
customer's PPPoE credentials.



-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:13 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do
any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On
the inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so
I just need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations
for one?  I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came
out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Ken Hohhof]

Is it ADSL, or UVerse?

Back when I did ADSL, I used Zhone 6211/6212, but I think those are 
discontinued now.



-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I might be able to find them.  I'm not sure I even saw those settings in
the current DSL Router.  It came from AT&T and just worked.  In the
current DSL World, are things still PPPoE, or since they have a pair of
wires back to the DSLAM, the authenticate you that way?

I was just converting a customer from Frontier that had a Nighthawk
Router.  I didn't pay too much attention to it, but it had a Drop down
box to select your DSL Provider.  I don't remember if it had PPPoE
Settings in it or not.



On 5/1/2016 10:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I would get any cheap DSL modem and set it for RFC1483 bridging with VPI=0 
and VCI=35.  Last time I needed one, I found one from Actiontec at Best 
Buy or Frys.  The Frys website says they are out of stock at the Downers 
Grove store though.


Then set up your router of choice to do PPPoE, I assume you know the 
customer's PPPoE credentials.



-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:13 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do
any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On
the inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so
I just need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations
for one?  I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came
out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Nate Burke]

I might be able to find them.  I'm not sure I even saw those settings in 
the current DSL Router.  It came from AT&T and just worked.  In the 
current DSL World, are things still PPPoE, or since they have a pair of 
wires back to the DSLAM, the authenticate you that way?


I was just converting a customer from Frontier that had a Nighthawk 
Router.  I didn't pay too much attention to it, but it had a Drop down 
box to select your DSL Provider.  I don't remember if it had PPPoE 
Settings in it or not.




On 5/1/2016 10:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I would get any cheap DSL modem and set it for RFC1483 bridging with 
VPI=0 and VCI=35.  Last time I needed one, I found one from Actiontec 
at Best Buy or Frys.  The Frys website says they are out of stock at 
the Downers Grove store though.


Then set up your router of choice to do PPPoE, I assume you know the 
customer's PPPoE credentials.



-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:13 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do
any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On
the inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so
I just need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations
for one?  I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came
out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I ran into this with an AT&T customer once, I finally dicked around in
their router and got it to bridge, I had to do something with the dhcp
server, I don't completely recall, but the AT&T tech was a douche so I hung
up on him and figured it out. I wish I could remember what I had to do. I
remember though that the interface terms didn't make sense on their face
but once I did whatever it was that I did, it worked, but they may have had
a /29 applied to the router
On May 1, 2016 10:18 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

Yes that'd be double NAT.  Who cares about IPv6...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

> It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it,
> then put that router on a DMZ Address.  Wouldn't that mean Double NAT
> Then?  And probably loose all the IPv6 then.
>
> On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Can you just set it to bridge?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>
>> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
>> is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any
>> IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the
>> inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just
>> need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?
>> I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a
>> Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Ken Hohhof]

I would get any cheap DSL modem and set it for RFC1483 bridging with VPI=0 
and VCI=35.  Last time I needed one, I found one from Actiontec at Best Buy 
or Frys.  The Frys website says they are out of stock at the Downers Grove 
store though.


Then set up your router of choice to do PPPoE, I assume you know the 
customer's PPPoE credentials.



-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:13 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do
any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On
the inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so
I just need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations
for one?  I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came
out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they? 

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Luthman]

Yes that'd be double NAT.  Who cares about IPv6...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 1, 2016 11:16 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

> It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it,
> then put that router on a DMZ Address.  Wouldn't that mean Double NAT
> Then?  And probably loose all the IPv6 then.
>
> On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Can you just set it to bridge?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>
>> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router
>> is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any
>> IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the
>> inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just
>> need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?
>> I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a
>> Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Nate Burke]

It seems like the "Official" Solution is to put a 2nd router behind it, 
then put that router on a DMZ Address.  Wouldn't that mean Double NAT 
Then?  And probably loose all the IPv6 then.


On 5/1/2016 10:14 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Can you just set it to bridge?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke" > wrote:


I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T
router is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP
Server, or do any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out
IPv6 addresses)  On the inside of the network, I already have
unifi and Managed switches, so I just need a hardwired DSL router
with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?  I'd love to use a
Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a Routerboard
with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Josh Luthman]

Can you just set it to bridge?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On May 1, 2016 11:13 PM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

> I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT&T DSL.  The AT&T router is
> a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do any
> IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On the
> inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so I just
> need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations for one?
> I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came out with a
> Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?
>