BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7931-7947

[Nic Evans]

On 10/28/17 01:27, Aris Merchant wrote:
> [Hopefully I've got everything right. The Proposal Pool will take a
> few more days, and may even be a bit late.  My apologies for any
> inconvenience.]
>
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 5.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
> also a valid vote).
>
> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7931*  G. 3.0  Registration fix finally G.  1 sh.

FOR

> 7932*  ATMunn, [1]1.0  A Reward for Obedience v5ATMunn  1 AP

PRESENT

> 7933*  Alexis 3.0  Ribbon Preservation Act  Alexis  1 sh.

FOR

> 7934*  天火狐  1.0  Poetry Duel Challenge Writ   天火狐   OP [2]

PRESENT

> 7935*  Trigon 3.0  Revision Limits v2   Trigon  1 AP

AGAINST; no technical issues but I have a different paradigm in mind.

> 7936*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Print Money  V.J. Rada   1 AP

FOR

> 7937*  V.J. Rada, o   2.0  I Demand Faster Auctions V.J. Rada   1 AP

FOR

> 7938*  Aris   3.0  Fix Campaign Proposals   Aris1 AP

FOR

> 7939*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Repeal the Reportor  V.J. Rada   1 sh.

PRESENT

> 7940*  Alexis, [3]3.0  High Power Cleanup   Alexis  1 sh.

Endorse ais523

> 7941*  Alexis 1.0  HTML Scrubbing   Alexis  1 sh.

AGAINST; Doesn't this include attachments?

> 7942*  Alexis 1.0  No List Prefixes Alexis  1 sh.

FOR

> 7943*  ATMunn 2.0  Mini fixes   ATMunn  1 sh.

FOR

> 7944*  Trigon 2.0  Who's the Secretary? Trigon  1 AP

FOR

> 7945*  Telnaior   1.0  Name and Shame   Telnaior1 AP

FOR

> 7946*  Telnaior   3.0  MASUAC [4]   Telnaior1 AP

PRESENT

> 7947*  V.J. Rada, [5] 3.0  MCVotA [6]   V.J. Rada   2 sh.

PRESENT



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Re: BUS: Asset Auctions

[Nic Evans]

I withdraw the below proposal. I point a finger at myself for violating
the below pledge. I should've set a reminder for this.


On 10/25/17 14:37, Nic Evans wrote:
> I know there's some talk of wider Estate fixes, but this fixes one of
> the issues and also gives Agora something to do with the Stamps it's
> accruing.
>
> I pledge to either withdraw or pend the below proposal within 7 days
> from this message.
>
> I submit the following proposal.
>
> title: Asset Auctions
> ai: 2
> author: nichdel
> co-authors:
>
> Amend 'Estate Auctions' by renaming it 'Auctions', by replacing the
> first paragraph with:
>
>    Once a week, while there is not already an Auction in progress, and
>    while Agora owns at least one Asset that is not shinies, the Surveyor
>    can and SHALL put one Asset Agora owns, that is not shinies, up for
>    auction by announcement. Each auction ends seven days after it
>    begins.
>
> and by amending the third paragraph by replacing "the auctioned Estate"
> with "the auctioned Asset".
>
>




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BUS: Occult Hand Business

[Nic Evans]

I intend to wager the occult hand.




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BUS: CFJ 3583 judged FALSE

[Nic Evans]

The smaller part of this debate is whether the person in question was
ratified into being a player. R869, quoted below, makes this impossible.
The larger issue is consent.

Consent is a concept that must be held in the highest regard in both
Agora and the real world. The rules of Agora have recently enshrined a
definition of consent which seems fairly close to the common sense
definition:

Rule 2519/0 (Power=3)
Consent

  A person gives consent (syn. consents) to an action when e, acting
as emself,
  publicly states that e agrees to the action. This agreement may be
implied,
  but only if it is reasonably clear from context that the person
wanted the
  agreement to take place.

Implicit in this definition, and core to my understanding of consent, is
that there must be a specific instance that can be pointed to as the
moment of consent, regardless of if it is explicit or implicit. This
introduces an entirely new standard to tests of consent in general and
registration in specific, but I will attempt to show that this standard
is consistent with previous cases and current rules.

R869/40 'How to Join and Leave Agora' includes the following lines:

  The Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a person to abide by any agreement
without that
  person's willful consent.

and

  The Rules CANNOT compel non-players to act without their express
or reasonably
  implied consent.

The modifiers 'express', 'reasonably implied', and 'willful' all appear
to exclude the possibility of 'consent by silence'. Thus, consent must
be something a person espouses, though not necessarily directly.

Registration is the primary place of debate for questions of ambiguity
and intent. Since registration is synonymous with consent to the rules,
these questions are questions of consent. For some examples of these,
refer to CFJs 3444, 3450, 3474, and 3501 for recent examples. Many, many
more older examples also exist. All of these point to a single moment
that could be construed as consent, and attempt to disambiguate it.

Of note is CFJ 3558, wherein a person sent an ambiguous message before
acting as if e were a player. In this CFJ, the judge found the behavior
that followed the 'registration' as sufficient to show consent. The same
player who judged that case has recently used the term 'pattern of
behavior resembling consent' to argue this case's merits. In retrospect,
this is a worrying line of argumentation. It is unreasonable to believe
that an interaction with an entity (in this case, a person interacting
with Agora) implies consent to all interactions with that entity, or any
particular set of interactions. Additionally, this appears to be a more
specific instance of 'consent by silence', which does not appear to be
allowed by the rules. While the finding of 3558 is now fixed, it may be
in Agora's best interest to disregard the arguments therein. Instead,
note that there was indeed a single debated instance of consent, and
that the person who sent it appeared to believe it constituted consent
by eir own commentary and immediate actions.

In the case at hand, and all future cases, we should apply the standard
of an 'instance of consent'. This instance need not be explicit, but it
cannot be silent; there should be a single instance reasonable Agorans
can point to that establishes consent.

In this case, such an instance does not exist, as evidenced by the
resulting confusion about not only if, but when and how the person at
hand became a player.

Thus, I judge CFJ 3583, "ais523 is a player", false.




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Re: BUS: New Contract

[Nic Evans]

I become a party of Order of the Occult Hand. I like the idea
tremendously but there's two qualms:

* Party and participant are used interchangeably when they are in fact
not. Party includes the proprietor, participant does not. This leads,
either intentionally or accidentally, to the bigger issue:

* The proprietor appears to be able to look for the occult hand,
potentially making this a giant scam.




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Re: BUS: [Secretary] Basic income distribution revision 2 (attn ais523)

[Nic Evans]

On 10/25/17 02:18, VJ Rada wrote:
> By the way, I'm pretty sure that ais523 isn't a player? E was only
> made a player by ratification, and CFJ 3455 specifies quite clearly
> that a report ratifying cannot make anyone a player who did not
> consent to being one.
>
> So, I'm pretty sure this also didn't work. This is also a CoE on the
> Secretary report: ais523 is no player.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, I CFJ on "ais523 is a player", with
> shinies. I direct the judge to CFJ 3455. It is undisputed that ais523
> never consented to becoming a player and if e is so, e is only so by
> ratification.

I favor this case.

>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Owen Jacobson  > wrote:
>
> On Oct 25, 2017, at 12:30 AM, Owen Jacobson  > wrote:
>
> > I cause Agora to make the following payments, which I believe
> can be uniquely decomposed into the individual payments required
> by “Passive Income”:
> >
> > * 8 sh. to ProofTechnique
> > * 8 sh. to ais523
> > * 4 sh. to G.
>
> The payments to G. were ineffective, as e was not eligible to
> receive them. This means I need to decompose the distribution to
> debug it and fix it, which is - I think - what G. specifically
> warned me about. I spent some effort trying to work out what
> actually happened, but as there is no unique distribution of sh.
> for which the previous attempt could be successful, I believe it
> failed outright due to ambiguity.
>
> Because this failed, I believe ais523’s attempt to buy a stamp
> also failed.
>
> The following chart shows the correct distribution of shinies, and
> I cause Agora to pay 1 sh. to each recipient listed below, in
> order. In total, this will cause Agora to pay:
>
> * ProofTechnique: 8 sh.
> * ais523: 8 sh.
> * Gaelan: 4 sh.
>
> #  Recipient   Gaelan   PT[1]   ais523 (registration order,
> earliest-to-latest)
> --
>  0              4 sh.   0 sh.    0 sh.
>  1 PT[1]        4 sh.   1 sh.    0 sh.
>  2 ais523       4 sh.   1 sh.    1 sh.
>  3 PT[1]        4 sh.   2 sh.    1 sh.
>  4 ais523       4 sh.   2 sh.    2 sh.
>  5 PT[1]        4 sh.   3 sh.    2 sh.
>  6 ais523       4 sh.   3 sh.    3 sh.
>  7 PT[1]        4 sh.   4 sh.    3 sh.
>  8 ais523       4 sh.   4 sh.    4 sh.
>  9 Gaelen       5 sh.   4 sh.    4 sh.
> 10 PT[1]        5 sh.   5 sh.    4 sh.
> 11 ais523       5 sh.   5 sh.    5 sh.
> 12 Gaelan       6 sh.   5 sh.    5 sh.
> 13 PT[1]        6 sh.   6 sh.    5 sh.
> 14 ais523       6 sh.   6 sh.    6 sh.
> 15 Gaelan       7 sh.   6 sh.    6 sh.
> 16 PT[1]        7 sh.   7 sh.    6 sh.
> 17 ais523       7 sh.   7 sh.    7 sh.
> 18 Gaelan       8 sh.   7 sh.    7 sh.
> 19 PT[1]        8 sh.   8 sh.    7 sh.
> 20 ais523       8 sh.   8 sh.    8 sh.
>
> [1] ProofTechnique
>
> -o
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> From V.J. Rada



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BUS: A couple more actions

[Nic Evans]

I flip my emotion to Joyous because I had a pretty good vacation and
feel properly refreshed.

I pay Agora 5 shinies to create a Stamp.




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BUS: Asset Auctions

[Nic Evans]

I know there's some talk of wider Estate fixes, but this fixes one of
the issues and also gives Agora something to do with the Stamps it's
accruing.

I pledge to either withdraw or pend the below proposal within 7 days
from this message.

I submit the following proposal.

title: Asset Auctions
ai: 2
author: nichdel
co-authors:

Amend 'Estate Auctions' by renaming it 'Auctions', by replacing the
first paragraph with:

   Once a week, while there is not already an Auction in progress, and
   while Agora owns at least one Asset that is not shinies, the Surveyor
   can and SHALL put one Asset Agora owns, that is not shinies, up for
   auction by announcement. Each auction ends seven days after it
   begins.

and by amending the third paragraph by replacing "the auctioned Estate"
with "the auctioned Asset".




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BUS: Hon Our Not Ice

[Nic Evans]

This is a notice of honour.

O gains 1 honour, for being the best at what e does.
PSS loses 1 honour for being a contrarian.



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BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposal 7930

[Nic Evans]

On 10/16/17 22:40, Aris Merchant wrote:
> Proposals distributed this week:
>
> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7922*  Alexis 3.0  Clarity Act  Alexis  1 AP

PRESENT

> 7923*  Gaelan 1.0  Another Economy Fix Attempt  Gaelan  1 AP

AGAINST

> 7924*  Aris, [1]  3.0  Contracts v8 Aris1 sh.

FOR

> 7925*  Aris, Alexis   3.0  Safety Regulations v2Aris1 AP

PRESENT; Haven't kept up enough to fully consider it.

> 7926*  Alexis 3.0  Deregulation Alexis  1 AP

PRESENT

> 7927*  V.J. Rada, G.  2.0  Estate Auction Fix   V.J. Rada   1 sh.

FOR; though I'm not entirely sure it fixes the problem since the 'and'
could still separate two separate mechanisms.

> 7928*  G. 3.0  no we can't  G.  1 AP

FOR; with prejudice

> 7929*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Consumerism  V.J. Rada   1 sh.

PRESENT; Not a bad idea but it's not in my own self interest right now.

> 7930*  G. 1.7  Appeals improvements G.  1 sh.

FOR



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BUS: Judgments of 3570-3571. (Was Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3571 assigned to Nichdel)

[Nic Evans]

I judge CFJ 3570 FALSE. I judge CFJ 3571 TRUE.

First there's little doubt that "G is Overlord of Dunce" is not an
agency, because the name is invalid. Thus, it didn't enable any
abilities. The Superintendent's report does not self-ratify, so GOD
wasn't ratified into existence until VJ Rada ratified a document
asserting the existence of an agency that could be called GOD.


On 10/06/17 14:14, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> [Sorry, I initially missed the second "linked" CFJ in the below message.]
>
>
>>> I also call a linked CFJ  (yes, I know those don't exist) with Shinies
>>> with the statement: "G: Overlord of Dunce is an Agency."
> This is CFJ 3571.  I assign it to Nichdel.
>
> Caller's arguments same as for 3570, below.
>
>
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>>> I use shinies to call a CFJ with the statement: "Ben Öyle Öneriyorum
>>> is an agency"
>>
>> This is CFJ 3570.  I assign it to Nichdel.
>>
>>
>> Caller's Arguments:
>>
>>> Ben Öyle Öneriyorum was established in May with the powers of another
>>> agency called GOD.  GOD's name was created and has always been listed
>>> as G is Overlord of Dunce, which is patently invalid as a name ("is"
>>> is a verb, so the agency's name is invalid, so the agency could not be
>>> an agency).
>>>
>>> I ratified the following document yesterday.
>>>
 {{There is an agency with the following text.
 "G: Overlord of Dunce  (GOD)
 Head: Quazie
 Agents:  G.
 Powers:   1 - The ability to give notice to establish Agencies with
  Quazie as the Director or Head and G. as the only agent
  2 - The ability to establish Agencies with Quazie as the Director or
  Head and G. as the only agent".
 That agency was established by a message sent by Quazie, purporting to
 establish a message called "G is Overlord of Dunce", but the name of
 the agency is, and has been since its establishment, "G: Overlord of
 Dunce"}}
>>> The question is this: what, if any effect does this ratification have,
>>> and if it has the effect of making G: Overlord of Dunce an agency,
>>> does it also ratify previous actions that purported to use "GOD" to do
>>> things (the one thing it was used for was the establishment of BOO)
>>>
>>> I also call a linked CFJ  (yes, I know those don't exist) with Shinies
>>> with the statement: "G: Overlord of Dunce is an Agency."
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> From V.J. Rada
>>
>>




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BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7908-7921

[Nic Evans]

On 10/08/17 22:50, Aris Merchant wrote:
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 5.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
> also a valid vote).
>
>
> ID Author(s) AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7908*  G.1.0  Silly season G.  OP [1]

FOR; with reservations about the SHALL. What about giving a reward instead?

> 7909*  G.1.2  No Lockout   G.  OP [1]

PRESENT

> 7910*  G.1.0  What is a rulekeepor G.  OP [1]

AGAINST

> 7911*  V.J. Rada 1.0  Infinite Money Fix   V.J. Rada   1 sh.

FOR

> 7912*  Alexis3.0  Election Campaigns   Alexis  1 AP [2]

PRESENT

> 7913*  ATMunn1.0  Cheer Up v7? ATMunn  1 AP

AGAINST

> 7914*  o 1.0  SFDVP [3]o   1 AP

FOR

> 7915*  CuddleBeam1.0  Terrifying Proposals Reward  CuddleBeam  1 AP

AGAINST

> 7916*  Aris, o, G.   1.0  Pro Pace v2  Aris1 AP

PRESENT

> 7917*  P.S.S. [4], o 3.0  Banking  P.S.S. [4]  1 sh.

PRESENT

> 7918*  P.S.S. [4]3.0  Vacant Deputisation Fix  P.S.S. [4]  1 AP

PRESENT

> 7919*  P.S.S. [4]2.0  YSUIII. [5]  P.S.S. [4]  1 AP

AGAINST; a band-aid patch for a noncritical issue

> 7920*  Gaelan, Aris  1.0  The Lint Screen v2   Gaelan  1 sh.

PRESENT; neat concept, not certain it needs codification

> 7921*  o, G. 2.0  Passive Income   o   1 AP

PRESENT



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Re: BUS: I attempt to Declare A NEW ERA

[Nic Evans]

I support.


On 09/28/17 20:08, VJ Rada wrote:
> I intend, with Agoran Consent, to declare a new era, repealing all
> ephemeral rules.
>
> That is, both of them. Victory by apathy and Trust Tokens. IMO.
> they're kind of worthless. Apathy is useless bc if the game is really
> dead you can propose yourself winner anyway. And Trust Tokens are not
> exactly engaging gameplay.
>




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BUS: Re: Spooky Scary Skeletons

[Nic Evans]

I object because I have to to fulfill a pledge. I'm otherwise fine with
this.


On 09/28/17 15:04, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> I intend to, with Agoran Consent, initiate the following Proposal
> Competition:
>
> The TERRIFYING Proposals
>
> The Objective of this Proposal Competition is to make the most
> malevolent, heinous and EVIL proposal that you can design.
>
> Of course, since it's likely that none of these proposals are going to
> pass lol, I create and pend the following proposal with 1 AP:
>
> - Title: Terrifying Proposals Reward
> - Content: The victor of the "The Terrifying Proposals" Proposal
> Competition, once ever via this effect, can gain 3 Stamps from Agora
> by announcement.




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Re: BUS: [Proposal] Slower Promotion

[Nic Evans]

On 09/27/17 05:03, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> Counterarguments: The ability to assess ia a power and he abused it by doing 
> it after a change in the FV, which caused material losses and given the 0-sum 
> nature of the current economic system, that was therefore a material gain.

The current economy isn't zero sum. Stamps don't change in value based
on the number of them that exist, so you can continuously increase the
value you hold regardless of how much value other players hold.
Additionally, I haven't claimed shinies for several assessments,
including this one.

> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 10:55 PM, VJ Rada <vijar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Arguments: Punk Slips are appropriate for "abuses of official power"
>> for "personal gain". Nichdel here, just as Gaelan did not under CFJ
>> 35-09, did not exercise any power. In fact, this card is issued for
>> INACTION, which is not a power of the assessor just as much as it is
>> not a power of anyone else. Additionally, judges should narrowly
>> interpret "personal gain" to include circumstances only within Agora's
>> ruleset, not something as speculative as the circumstances here. Game
>> practice supports my argument: slightly late reports have ALWAYS to
>> this date, been given a green card.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 12:47 PM, VJ Rada <vijar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I call a CFJ with the statement: The Pink Slip below issued is both
>>> INEFFECTIVE and ILLEGAL. I use AP.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Owen Jacobson <o...@grimoire.ca> wrote:
>>>> As it happens, I have just enough cards left to deal with both this and 
>>>> Alexis’ finger before I run out for the week, and now that the proposal 
>>>> fixing the “or” in Vigilante Justice has been assessed, finger-pointing 
>>>> actually somewhat works again. Hooray!
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is absurd.  Was going to let it pass, but I point the Finger at 
>>>>> Nichdel
>>>>> for late Assessment of Decision to Adopt proposal 7876.
>>>>>
>>>>> I note, for the purposes of determining carding, that this lateness had a
>>>>> direct and material impact on my own earnings as well as others.
>>>> And on mine, which causes a minor conflict of interest. However, no rule 
>>>> allows me to recuse myself, and this is not a finger-pointing related the 
>>>> official duties or powers of the Referee, so the Arbitor cannot take over. 
>>>> I’ll have to do my best.
>>>>
>>>> Proposal 7876 was distributed on Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:19:41 UTC. As voting 
>>>> was not extended, voting ended at Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:19:41 UTC, exactly 
>>>> 7d after distribution (rule 107, “Initiating Agoran Decisions").
>>>>
>>>> nichdel assessed it at Tue, 26 Sep 2017 19:49:53 UTC. 8d, 18h 30m 12s 
>>>> elapsed from the close of voting to the proposal's assessment. Rule 208 
>>>> (“Resolving Agoran Decisions”) states:
>>>>
>>>>> The vote collector for an unresolved Agoran decision CAN resolve it by 
>>>>> announcement, indicating the outcome. If it was required to be initiated, 
>>>>> then e SHALL resolve it in a timely fashion after the end of the voting 
>>>>> period.
>>>> nichdel, as Assessor, was the vote collector for the Agoran Decision to 
>>>> adopt proposal 7876. As more than seven days had elapsed (rule 1023, 
>>>> “Common Definitions”), e did not do so in a timely fashion, and has 
>>>> violated the above clause of rule 208.
>>>>
>>>> G.’s allegation that the late assessment has a direct and material impact 
>>>> on gameplay is compelling. Furthermore, beyond the effects G. identifies, 
>>>> Assessment directly affects the adoption of rule changes, which are 
>>>> fundamental to Agora. However, I believe a Yellow Card would be 
>>>> inappropriate, and unduly punitive. Instead, I note that nichdel delayed 
>>>> assessment for reasons e spelled out in a message to agora-discussion:
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 20, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Nic Evans <nich...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Due to a stressful trip coming up this weekend and the size of the
>>>>> current batch of propos

BUS: Proposal: Guaranteed Stampage

[Nic Evans]

I submit the following proposal.

title: Guaranteed Stampage
ai: 1
author: nichdel
co-authors:

Amend 2499 "Welcome Packages" to read in full:

   If a player has not received one since e most recently became a
   player, any player CAN, by announcement, cause em to receive a
   Welcome package. When a player receives a Welcome Package:

  * Agora transfers em 1/10th the FV in shinies and

  * a Stamp, with Agora as the Creater, is created in eir
    possession.

Amend R2498 to be titled "Stamps" and to read in full:

   Stamps are an asset. The Secretary is the recordkeepor of Stamps.

   Each Stamp has an associated Creater which SHOULD be noted whenever
   the Stamp is mentioned and MUST be noted whenever the Stamp is
   transfered. Stamps with the same creater are fungible.

   Once per month a player CAN, by announcement, create a Stamp with
   themselves as the Creater by transferring the Stamp Value, in
   shinies, to Agora.

   If Agora owns at least as many Shinies as the current Stamp Value, a
   player CAN, by announcement, destroy a Stamp e owns to cause Agora to
   transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to emself.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Stamp Wins" with the following text:

   If a player owns 10 stamps with different Creaters, none of which
   have Agora as its Creater, e CAN win by announcement. Doing so
   destroys the specified stamps.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Basic Stamp Income" with the following
text:

   When the Secretary publishes the first Weekly Report of an Agoran
   Month, e CAN and SHALL, by announcement, create Stamps with Agora as
   the Creater and transfer them to any player who has no stamps and
   less than the Stamp Value in shinies at the time of publication.

Re: BUS: [Proposal] Slower Promotion

[Nic Evans]

On 09/26/2017 04:13 PM, Nic Evans wrote:


On 09/26/17 16:02, Kerim Aydin wrote:


On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Nic Evans wrote:

I personally find it frustrating that we vote on things before the last
setis resolved. This should be a relatively safe way to slow down, if we
want to.

Really, it overlapped wholly because you were late on Assessment, and your
response is to give the Promotor another task and slow the whole game down?

This is absurd.  Was going to let it pass, but I point the Finger at Nichdel
for late Assessment of Decision to Adopt proposal 7876.

I note, for the purposes of determining carding, that this lateness had a
direct and material impact on my own earnings as well as others.

I note to the Referee, so e can feel informed and NOT believe that there are
no rules violations this week, that Nichdel was similarly late on proposals
7877-7898.

Sorry - lateness happens, most is not a big deal, but this is a really poor
response to be frustrated at the voting system as a result.

Even if I'm not late this can and does still happen. Assessment is 7-14
days after promotion, and promotion is weekly. I'm not trying to punish
anyone else, I'm trying to make my own failure less catastrophic for
gamestate.

I resign from Assessor.


I pledge to provide, informally, an accurate tabulation of any Agoran 
Decisions the Assessor must resolve, within 2 weeks of the day the duty 
would become late, until the next time someone officially publishes the 
results of an Agoran Decision as Assessor.





-G.

Re: BUS: [Proposal] Slower Promotion

[Nic Evans]

On 09/26/17 16:23, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> I *do* appreciate the work involved, definitely - but I think it's important
> to consider where the frustration with the system comes from.  

I'm frequently frustrated with the ruleset not being up-to-date when
trying to evaluate proposals. I often have multiple days a week where I
can't devout time to Agora (not always the same days), so combined with
an outdated ruleset I end up with little to no window to understand what
proposals mean for the current gamestate.

I warned about being late and asked for other people to spot me on it.
No one did. I made a proposal that would ease the effects of me being
late for the job no one else is doing, and it got immediate directed
backlash.



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Re: BUS: Lime Ribbon Awarding and Unrelated Question (Was: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposal(s) 7876-7898)

[Nic Evans]

For each of {ais523, V.J. Rada} if e lacks a Lime Ribbon I award em a
Lime Ribbon.


On 09/26/17 16:15, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-09-26 at 16:39 -0400, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> wrote:
>> I award a Lime Ribbon to each of Aris, V.J. Rada, ais523, K, Ørjan,
>> and G., if each of them lacks it currently.
> a) you need three coauthored proposals in 7 days for the Lime Ribbon
> (so it's just V.J. Rada and me who get one unless there's another
> distribution available); b) it's fairly unclear what that conditional
> action expands to; does it only work if none of us currently have a
> Lime Ribbon?
>




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Re: BUS: [Proposal] Slower Promotion

[Nic Evans]

On 09/26/17 16:02, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2017, Nic Evans wrote:
>> I personally find it frustrating that we vote on things before the last
>> setis resolved. This should be a relatively safe way to slow down, if we
>> want to.
> Really, it overlapped wholly because you were late on Assessment, and your
> response is to give the Promotor another task and slow the whole game down? 
>
> This is absurd.  Was going to let it pass, but I point the Finger at Nichdel
> for late Assessment of Decision to Adopt proposal 7876.
>
> I note, for the purposes of determining carding, that this lateness had a 
> direct and material impact on my own earnings as well as others.
>
> I note to the Referee, so e can feel informed and NOT believe that there are 
> no rules violations this week, that Nichdel was similarly late on proposals 
> 7877-7898.
>
> Sorry - lateness happens, most is not a big deal, but this is a really poor
> response to be frustrated at the voting system as a result.

Even if I'm not late this can and does still happen. Assessment is 7-14
days after promotion, and promotion is weekly. I'm not trying to punish
anyone else, I'm trying to make my own failure less catastrophic for
gamestate.

I resign from Assessor.

>
> -G.
>
>
>




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BUS: [Proposal] Slower Promotion

[Nic Evans]

I personally find it frustrating that we vote on things before the last
setis resolved. This should be a relatively safe way to slow down, if we
want to.

Title: Slower Promotion
AI: 3
author: nichdel
co-authors:

Amend R1607 (Distribution) by replacing:

  In a given Agoran week, the Promotor SHALL, as part of eir
  weekly duties, distribute all pending proposals.

with

  In a given Agoran week, as part of eir weekly duties, the Promotor
  SHALL:

 * distribute all pending proposals if there are no unresolved
    Agoran decisions to adopt a proposal.

 * list all unresolved Agoran decisions to adopt a proposal. The
   Promotor MAY still distribute all pending proposals.



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BUS: A CFJ on Pledges

[Nic Evans]

I call the following CFJ, using AP: "A pledge can only be broken once."

Arguments:

Consider the text of R2450:

"A player  SHALL NOT
 break eir own publicly-made
pledges.

A pledge may be considered broken if the pledger does not complete it in
a timely  manner after it
becomes possible to do so. A pledge may be considered broken at the
moment the pledger engages in conduct proscribed by that pledge."

There's no legal definition of 'broken' in the ruleset. In common usage,
we have several type of breaking:

* Breaking a contract. Doing so leaves you up for punishment, but it
also nullifies the contract.

* Breaking a promise.'By default' doing so nullifies the promise. In
cases where it doesn't, it's because the involved parties discuss
continuing it (arguably creating a new promise).

* Breaking a system. Once a physical or conceptual system is broken it
remains so until repaired. You can do further damage and even 'break it
more' but it's already broken and you can't break it anew.

Under all these, it appears you can't break what's broken until it's
remade or repaired. There is no rule defined method to repair a pledge.
Thus, when someone first breaks a pledge it remains broken, and cannot
be broken again.



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BUS: Assessing Votes

[Nic Evans]

Due to a stressful trip coming up this weekend and the size of the
current batch of proposals, I'm unlikely to be able to assess until mid
next week. If there's interest, I could create an agency that allows
someone else to assess.

Sorry about the delays.




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Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7876-7898 [sic]

[Nic Evans]

On 09/11/17 15:50, Nic Evans wrote:
> On 09/10/17 20:19, Aris Merchant wrote:
>> [A few comments:
>>   1. I probably got something wrong. If I did, I'm sorry. It would be nice if
>>   people could point my errors out, and help fix them (not object to RWOs,
>>   etc.).
>>   2. I had a lot to do this week, and a few things people did made it more
>>   complicated than it had to be. Creating a bunch of new proposals in a rush 
>> on
>>   Sunday afternoon right before the end of the week really isn't helpful. I
>>   would also appreciate it if people could mark their proposals with
>>   "[Proposal]", or "Proposal:" or something along those lines. Thanks to the
>>   people who did that.
>> ]
>>
>> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
>> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
>> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
>> quorum is 3.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
>> also a valid vote).
>>
>>
>

[...]

> For each of {Veggiekeks, bayushi, bablien/Ajay Kumar Raja} I intend to
> deregister them without objection.

I resolve my above-quoted intents to deregister Veggiekeks, bayushi, and
bablien/Ajay Kumar Raja without objection.




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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Anti-Treasuror Omnipotence

[Nic Evans]

On 09/15/17 16:33, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> I believe it's a matter of difference between how we use language in
> common use and it's literal interpretation. For that case, for example:
>
> X: "You can only do that if I say so.", where "so" means X would mean
> that the kid can do it, even if that wasn't the intent of the message.
>
> Quibbles, really.

"You can do x if I say so" and "you can do x if I say 'so'" are
unambiguously different in writing. You even had to put 'so' in scare
quotes during your own argumentation.

I put a finger at myself for breaking a pledge.

>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Kerim Aydin  > wrote:
>
>
>
> A more direct example:
>
> I say:  "You can only do that if I say so."
>
> My kid says:  "You just said so!"
>
> That's the logic of a first grader, but it's not actually how
> conditionals work
> in common English.
>
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> > True but my argument was this:
> > We got
> > A: "CAN Y if X is true"
> > where X is:
> > X: "CAN Y exists as text" (for. "doing so is specified by a
> rule", where "so" is "The Treasuror CAN cause Agora to pay any
> player or organization by announcement". " is specified by a rule"
> is pretty much
> > "exists as text" because all rules are specifications of
> something. If they weren't specifying anything they would be
> pretty useless, annoying rules lol like aeijqwornjqwhwquiejh qwuih
> qiuwq ui.)
> >
> > So A is basically: "CAN Y if "CAN Y exists as text" is true".
> Since CAN Y does exist as text, then we can CAN Y.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Kerim Aydin
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >       The statement "CAN Y if X is true" doesn't make X true.
> >
> >       On Fri, 15 Sep 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> >
> >       > I create the following proposal and pend it with AP:
> >       >
> >       > -+-
> >       >
> >       > Title: Anti-Treasuror Omnipotence
> >       > AI: 3
> >       > Content:
> >       >
> >       > Amend "The Treasuror CAN cause Agora to pay any player
> or organization by announcement if doing so is specified by a rule."
> >       >
> >       > to
> >       >
> >       > "The Treasuror CAN cause Agora to pay any player by
> announcement if doing so is specified by a rule other than this rule."
> >       >
> >       > -+-
> >       >
> >       > You see:
> >       > - Organizations don't exist anymore, they got repealed
> by "Better Accounting". Removing that.
> >       > - "doing so" is specified by the sentence itself where
> that's in (any description is a specification of itself), so
> adding "by a rule other than this rule" to avoid that.
> >       >
> >       >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>



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Re: BUS: 200 word apology

[Nic Evans]

I've personally enjoyed most of your contributions and find any faux pas
you've made completely acceptable, both because of their rareness and
because of your immediate ameliorative steps.


On 09/14/17 19:12, VJ Rada wrote:
> Firstly I'm sorry for continually failing to use 'e' 'em' etc, it's
> inexcusable at this point.
>
> I'm sorry for trying to take control of Quazie without notifying em or
> anyone and certainly without asking. I kind of thought the lesson of
> CB was that scams are OK as long as they work but there are certainly
> dickish scams that do work. And I messed it up anyway, luckily for
> Quazie. I'm sorry for not treating that with any gravity at any point.
> I'm sorry for not titling that properly, that was bad too.
>
> I'm sorry for taking the ADoP position instead of giving it to o,
> given nobody actually voted for me except the one vote I bought and
> I'm sure e would have done a better job. I'm sorry for my inadequate
> reports.
>
> Also, I probably shouldn't have bought the election for PM given that
> lots of people voted against me, nobody voted directly for me without
> it being bought, and I only won because of making Quazie apologise for
> doing nothing wrong. I apologise for doing that too.
>
> I'm sorry for not reading the rules anywhere near as closely as
> others. I don't do actions or make interpretations that I don't
> believe but I don't put the work in that I should put in, and that
> others do.
>
> I'm sorry for insta-pending recent proposals that seem to be
> meritless, making more work for Aris.
>
> I'm sorry for sending way too many messages. Like, I feel like I've
> been a huge spammer recently, whether or not that's true. I've been
> known for spamming internet forums as well.
>
> I'm sorry for the CFJ I failed at judging.
>
> I'm sorry for the fact I can't even be bothered to use capitals some
> or most of the time.
>
> I'm sorry for the fact that I'm so desperate for voting strength I
> wrote this out in like 10 minutes instead of thinking about it.
>




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Re: BUS: [Prime Minister] Speaker & Card

[Nic Evans]

On 09/13/17 16:58, VJ Rada wrote:
> Because we currently have no speaker if Cuddlebeam was not the
> speaker, and because e is in both sets of possible recent winners, I
> appoint Cuddlebeam speaker.

After consideration, it strikes me as flagrantly beligerent to make CB
the Speaker. From a mechanical standpoint, e has a tendency to object to
things for no good reason and now has full veto power. From a
'figurehead leader of Agora' standpoint, I have no intent of being part
of a community represented by someone prone to sexism, racism, and
misgendering.

If CB is the Speaker, I submit the above as a Cantus Cygneus.

>
> I also yellow card myself for being bad in several ways.
>




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BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] You thought there was a lot of elections last time. Initiating 8 (!) elections.

[Nic Evans]

For Referee, Registrar, and Surveyor I vote {incumbent if e votes for
emself, nichdel}.

For Arbitor, Superintendent, Tailor, Promotor, and Rulekeepor I vote
{endorse incumbent, endorse G.}.


On 09/13/17 18:22, VJ Rada wrote:
> Please note the already ongoing election for agronomist.
>
> I initiate the elections for and the agoran decisions for the
> determination of the Arbitor, the Superintendent, the Tailor, the
> Promotor, the Referee, the Registrar, the Surveyor, and the
> Rulekeepor. These elections are either legal under the 90 day rule or
> are vacant offices. The vote collector is the ADoP and the quorum is
> 2.0.
>




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Re: BUS: [Proposal] Guaranteed Stamp Income

[Nic Evans]

On 09/13/17 15:13, Nic Evans wrote:
> A more indirect guaranteed income. Less immediate impact on the economy,
> and more protection from bad timing.
>
> title: Agora Stamps
> ai: 1
> author: nichdel
> co-authors:
>
> Amend 2499 "Welcome Packages" to read in full:
>
>    If a player has not received one since e became a player, any other
>    player CAN, by announcement, create a Stamp with Agora as the Creater
>    in first players' possession.

Ok so I wrote this on a crunch between chores and see a couple clear
errors here. I withdraw this proposal for now but would still like
feedback on it.

>
> Amend R2498 to be titled "Stamps" and to read in full:
>
>    Stamps are an asset. The Secretary is the recordkeepor of Stamps.
>
>    Each Stamp has an associated Creater, which SHOULD be noted whenever
>    the Stamp is mentioned and MUST be noted whenever the Stamp is
>    transfered. Stamps with the same creater are fungible.
>
>    Once per month a player CAN, by announcement, create a Stamp with
>    themselves as the Creater by transferring the Stamp Value, in
>    shinies, to Agora.
>
>    If Agora owns at least as many Shinies as the current Stamp Value, a
>    player CAN, by announcement, destroy a Stamp e owns to cause Agora to
>    transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to emself.
>
> Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Stamp Wins" with the following text:
>
>    If a player owns 10 stamps with different Creaters, none of which
>    have Agora as its Creater, e CAN win by announcement. Doing so
>    destroys the specified stamps.
>
> Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Basic Stamp Income" with the following
> text:
>
>    When the Secretary publishes the first Weekly Report of an Agoran
>    Month, e CAN and SHALL, by announcement, create Stamps with Agora as
>    the Creater and transfer them to any player who has no stamps and
>    less than the Stamp Value in shinies at the time of publication.
>
>




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BUS: [Proposal] Guaranteed Stamp Income

[Nic Evans]

A more indirect guaranteed income. Less immediate impact on the economy,
and more protection from bad timing.

title: Agora Stamps
ai: 1
author: nichdel
co-authors:

Amend 2499 "Welcome Packages" to read in full:

   If a player has not received one since e became a player, any other
   player CAN, by announcement, create a Stamp with Agora as the Creater
   in first players' possession.

Amend R2498 to be titled "Stamps" and to read in full:

   Stamps are an asset. The Secretary is the recordkeepor of Stamps.

   Each Stamp has an associated Creater, which SHOULD be noted whenever
   the Stamp is mentioned and MUST be noted whenever the Stamp is
   transfered. Stamps with the same creater are fungible.

   Once per month a player CAN, by announcement, create a Stamp with
   themselves as the Creater by transferring the Stamp Value, in
   shinies, to Agora.

   If Agora owns at least as many Shinies as the current Stamp Value, a
   player CAN, by announcement, destroy a Stamp e owns to cause Agora to
   transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to emself.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Stamp Wins" with the following text:

   If a player owns 10 stamps with different Creaters, none of which
   have Agora as its Creater, e CAN win by announcement. Doing so
   destroys the specified stamps.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Basic Stamp Income" with the following
text:

   When the Secretary publishes the first Weekly Report of an Agoran
   Month, e CAN and SHALL, by announcement, create Stamps with Agora as
   the Creater and transfer them to any player who has no stamps and
   less than the Stamp Value in shinies at the time of publication.




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BUS: [Proposal] Solvency

[Nic Evans]

I don't really like changing the supply level. But if we're going to do
it here's how I would do it. It takes about 2 weeks of problems to
happen, which is about the speed of a proposal anyway. It should also
provide players an incentive to prevent it from happening, since a
supply increase lowers the value of eir shinies.

I submit the following proposal.

title: Solvency
ai: 2
author: nichdel
co-authors:

Amend R2487 "Shiny Supply Level" to read in full:

   The Supply Level is a singleton switch with possible values integers
   and a default value of 1000.

   When a Shiny Releveling event occurs, Agora's Balance is increased or
   decreased such that all Balances add up to the Supply Level.

   When the Supply level Changes, a Shiny Releveling event occurs.

   The Secretary may cause a Shiny Releveling event to occur without 3
   Objections.

Create a new Power 1 rule titled "Solvency" with the following text:

   Solvency is a singleton switch with possible values in the ordered
   set [Solvent, Borderline, Insolvent], with a default value of
   Solvent, and which is tracked by the Secretary

   An Insolvent Week is an Agoran week where at least one player has
   attempted to receive a reward or stamp value and failed because Agora
   did not have enough shinies. All other weeks are Solvent Weeks.

   As part of eir Weekly Report the Secretary CAN and SHALL set the
   Solvency switch as defined:

  * If the previous week was an Insolvent Week, increase the value
    by one step, if possible.

  * If the previous week was a Solvent Week, decrease the value by
    one step, if possible.

   If Solvency is Insolvent, the Secretary CAN and SHALL increase the
   Shiny Supply by announcement by 10%. When the Secretary does so,
   Solvency is set to Solvent.




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BUS: [Proposal] Basic Guaranteed Income

[Nic Evans]

Here's my take on a basic income. Note that it's a form of guaranteed,
rather than universal, income in the sense that it only brings you up
to an appropriate level.

I submit the following proposal:

title: Basic Income
ai: 2
author: nichdel
co-authors:

Repeal R2500 "Action Points"

Amend R2445 "How to Pend a Proposal" to read in full:

   Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
   proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or
   "not pending" (default).

   Any player CAN flip a specified proposal's imminence to "pending" by
   announcement by spending the current Pend Cost in shinies.

Amend R991 "Calls for Judgement" by removing point "a)" in the first
list and changing points "b)" and "c)" to "a)" and "b)" respectively.

Amend R2497 "Floating Value" by adding to the end of the list of
Floating Derived Values:

   * Income Floor: 1/10th the Floating Value, rounded up.

Amend R2499 "Welcome Packages" to read in full:

   Within an Agoran Week after a person registers, any player CAN and
   MAY cause Agora to pay the new player the Income Floor in shinies by
   announcement.

Create a new Power 1 rule titled "Basic Income" with the following text:

   Within an Agoran Week after the first Secretary Weekly Report is
   published in an Agoran Month, any player CAN and MAY cause Agora,
   by announcement to pay em the Income Floor minus eir Balance at time
   of the Weekly Report's publication if e has less than the Income
   Floor in shinies and has 0 stamps.




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Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7876-7898 [sic]

[Nic Evans]

On 09/11/17 23:30, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>
>> 7887*  Aris  3.0  SLR Ratification Aris1 sh.
> AGAINST.
>
> I’m strongly pro-ruleset-ratification, as it has not been done since well 
> before I joined the game. However, ratifying that version at this point in 
> the sequence of proposals may invalidate proposals within this distribution, 
> more or less at the whim of the Assessor. Furthermore, I’m not a fan of 
> including the entire ruleset by reference.
>
> Let’s coordinate to ratify the ruleset more carefully. This also might be a 
> good use case for Ratification Without Object, rather than Ratification by 
> proposal, as RWO requires unanimity.
>

I think it's a dangerous equivalence to say RWO or any WO action
requires unanimity. Besides being a silence = consent standpoint,
there's a number of issues with the logic. First, RWO doesn't have a
quorum, meaning an inattentive playerbase can allow any number of silly
things. Secondly, RWO can be snuck into places where it isn't easily
noticed, which alongside the first point means it can occur without
other players' knowledge.

IMO, you come closer to setting a high bar by trying to ratify via
proposal with a high AI, and I wonder if we should make ruleset
ratification have a special quorum of at least 1/4th players or higher.



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Severe email problems

[Nic Evans]

I'm willing to judge, though my current situation makes timeliness a
consideration, so probably try to give me less time-sensitive CFJs?


On 09/11/17 19:13, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> Are Publius, o, Aris, grok, and myself the only ones currently interested
> in judging - any other volunteers at all?? (and I think grok has stepped 
> down).
>
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
>> G. wrote:
>>> ais523, can you provide the list of "interested judges" you were working 
>>> from for judicial assignments?
>> Yes, although apparently I have to start a new thread with each message 
>> (because I can't send messages the normal way, I'm sending this from a relay 
>> that doesn't store the messages in the usual way once they've been received, 
>> so there's nothing to reply to; there's a backup of recently relayed 
>> messages but I'm not 100% sure what would happen if I tried replying to 
>> those). Here are my notes:
>>
>> Publius 3558
>> o 3537*?
>> Aris 3557
>> grok 3555
>> G. 3548* 3556
>>
>> First unused number: 3559
>>
>> * means that the CFJ's deadline has been refreshed (e.g. due to a 
>> reassignment or reconsideration). ? means that there's some uncertainty or 
>> confusion about the status.
>>
>> grok has had 1 fewer CFJ assigned than the other judges listed here (thus 
>> needs 1 more CFJ assigned than the others in order to keep approximate 
>> balance over time.
>>
>> -- 
>> ais523
>>




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BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7876-7898 [sic]

[Nic Evans]

On 09/10/17 20:19, Aris Merchant wrote:
> [A few comments:
>   1. I probably got something wrong. If I did, I'm sorry. It would be nice if
>   people could point my errors out, and help fix them (not object to RWOs,
>   etc.).
>   2. I had a lot to do this week, and a few things people did made it more
>   complicated than it had to be. Creating a bunch of new proposals in a rush 
> on
>   Sunday afternoon right before the end of the week really isn't helpful. I
>   would also appreciate it if people could mark their proposals with
>   "[Proposal]", or "Proposal:" or something along those lines. Thanks to the
>   people who did that.
> ]
>
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 3.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
> also a valid vote).
>
>
> ID Author(s) AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7876*  o 2.0  Float On o   1 AP
FOR; Seems sensible.
> 7877*  CB [1]1.0  Monsters CB [1]  1 AP
AGAINST; Fulfilling pledge, and also it's a useless stub with bad text.
> 7878*  Gaelan1.0  Not So Cuddly NowAris1 sh.
PRESENT; Ambivalent about this change, though I understand the
frustration that led to the proposal.
> 7879*  o, Aris   1.0  You can take it with you o   1 sh.
FOR;
> 7880*  o 1.0  Agency Typo Fix  o   1 sh.
FOR
> 7881*  o, [2]1.0  Stamp CAN Patch  o   1 sh.
FOR
> 7882*  o, K, ais523  1.0  Welcome Package CAN Patcho   1 sh.
FOR
> 7883*  G.1.0  Fear v2.1G.  1 sh.
PRESENT; Concerned about interactions with scams and shenanigans.
> 7884*  V.J Rada  3.0  Mother, May I?   V.J Rada1 sh.
PRESENT; I get CAN/MAY wrong all the time but I'll defer to the more
modally-inclined players on whether this is good.
> 7885*  o, [3]3.0  Restraining Bolt o   1 sh.
PRESENT
> 7886*  Aris, [4] 2.0  Card Reform and Expansion v4 Aris1 sh.
PRESENT; Not convinced punishment expansion is the right direction, but
I'll let it play out.
> 7887*  Aris  3.0  SLR Ratification Aris1 sh.
FOR
> 7888*  o, V.J Rada   3.1  BILLY MAYS HERE  o   1 sh.
FOR
> 7889*  Aris  3.0  Agora Protection Act Aris1 sh.
FOR
> 7890*  Aris, G.  2.0  Improved Buoyancy v2 Aris1 sh.
FOR
> 7891*  Gaelan1.0  Proletarian Revolution   Gaelan  1 sh.
AGAINST; Neat but not the direction I'd like to see the current econ go in.
> 7892*  Aris  1.0  Truthfulness v2  Aris1 sh.
FOR
> 7893*  V.J Rada, [1] 2.0  Zimbabwe-style economics V.J Rada1 sh.
AGAINST; I will oppose every change to Supply Level until the inactive
players with shinies are dealt with.
> 7894*  G.2.0  Shiny WeatherG.  1 AP
AGAINST; ibid
> 7895*  Gaelan3.0  No Telepathy Gaelan  1 sh.
AGAINST; This appears to completely break anything calendar based.
> 7896*  P.S.S. [5]3.0  Registration Delay Fix   P.S.S.  1 AP
PRESENT
> 7897*  CB [1]1.0  University Funding   Aris1 sh.
I vote AGAINST on this proposal, then withdraw that vote and vote FOR
> 7898*  G.2.0  Community Chest  G.  1 AP
PRESENT; Sure, why not.
>
>
> The proposal pool is currently empty.
>
> Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
>
>
> [1] CuddleBeam
> [2] V.J Rada, Aris, ais523
> [3] V.J Rada, Ørjan
> [4] ais523, Ørjan
> [5] Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> The Pending List Price (PLP) is 1 shiny. Proposals may also be pended for
> 1 AP.
>
> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>
> //
> ID: 7876
> Title: Float On
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: o
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Amend rule 2497 ("Floating Value") by replacing its text, in full, with:
>
> {{{
> Floating Value is a natural singleton switch, tracked by the
> Secretary. Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, the Floating
> Value switch CANNOT be flipped to a value other than the number
> of Shinies owned by Agora.
>
> The following Floating Derived Values are defined:
>
> * Pend Cost: 1/20th of the Floating Value, rounded up.
> * CFJ Cost: 1/20th of the Floating Value, rounded up.
> * Authorship Reward: 1/40th of the Floating Value, rounded up.
> * Pend Reward: 1/40th of the Floating Value, rounded up.
> * CFJ Reward: 1/20th of the Floating Value, rounded up.
> * Stamp Value: 1/5th of the Floating Value, rounded up.
> }}}
>
> 

BUS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposal(s) 7872-7875

[Nic Evans]

CoE: I'm an idiot that attempted, and failed, to resolve the wrong
proposals.

I accept this CoE.


On 09/07/17 18:47, nichdel wrote:
> I resolve the decision(s) to adopt proposal(s) 78572-7875as below.
>
> 
>
> [This notice resolves the Agoran decisions of whether to adopt the
>  following proposals.  For each decision, the options available to
>  Agora are ADOPTED (*), REJECTED (x), and FAILED QUORUM (!). If a
>  decision's voting period is still ongoing, I end it immediately
>  before resolving it and after resolving the previous decision.]
>
> ID Author(s) AI   Title   Pender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7872*  o 2.0  Estate Auction Cleanup  o   1 AP
> 7873*  o, babelian   2.0  Agoracultureo   1 AP
> 7874*  o 2.0  Shorter Apologies   o   3 sh.
> 7845*  nichdel   1.0  Better Accounting   o   1 AP
>
> |    | 7872 | 7873 | 7874 | 7875 |
> |+--+--+--+--+
> |Aris    | F    | P    | F    | F    |
> |nichdel | P    | P    | F    | F    |
> |o   | F    | F    | F    | F    |
> |+--+--+--+--+
> |F/A | 2/0  | 1/0  | 3/0  | 3/0  |
> |AI  | 2.0  | 2.0  | 2.0  | 1.0  |
> |V   | 3    | 3    | 3    | 3    |
> |Q   | 3    | 3    | 3    | 3    |
> |P   | T    | T    | T    | T    |
>
>
> The full text of the adopted proposal(s) is included below.
>
> //
> ID: 7872
> Title: Estate Auction Cleanup
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: o
> Co-authors:
>
>
> In Rule 2491 ("Estate Auctions"), replace the second paragraph with:
>
>   During an auction, any player may bid a number of Shinies on eir
>   own behalf by announcement, or on behalf of any Organization for
>   which such a bid is Appropriate by announcement, provided the bid
>   is higher than any previously-placed bid in the same auction.
>
>   If, at the end of the auction, there is a single highest bid, then
>   that player or Organization wins the auction. The player who
>   placed the winning bid CAN cause Agora to transfer the auctioned
>   Estate to the winner by announcement, by paying Agora the amount
>   of the bid, or by causing the winning Organization to pay Agora
>   the amount of the bid. E SHALL do so in a timely fashion.
>
>
> //
> ID: 7873
> Title: Agoraculture
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: o
> Co-authors: babelian
>
>
> Enact a new rule, with power 1.0, titled "Farm Rate", with the following text:
>
>   The Farm Rate is a natural singleton switch, tracked by the
>   Agronomist.
>
> Set the Farm Rate to 20.
>
> Enact a new rule, with power 2.0, titled "Agoraculture", with the following
> text:
>
>   Each Estate has a Farm switch, tracked by the Agronomist, with
>   values "farmed" and "unfarmed", defaulting to "unfarmed". Changes
>   to Farm switches are secured. An Estate whose Farm switch is
>   "farmed" is a Farm, and its owner is the Farmer of that Estate.
>
>   In the first week of an Agoran month, the owner of an unfarmed
>   Estate MAY flip its Farm switch to "farmed" by announcement, if e
>   pays Agora a number of shinies equal to the Farm Rate.
>
>   In the first week of an Agoran month, the owner of a Farm MAY till
>   the farm by announcement, if e pays Agora a number of shinies equal
>   to the Farm Rate. If the Farmer of an Estate does not till it
>   within the first week of an Agoran month, the Agronomist CAN flip
>   its Farm switch to "unfarmed" by announcement, and SHALL do so in a
>   timely fashion.
>
>   When an Estate is transferred to Agora or to an Organization, its
>   Farm switch is set to "unfarmed" immediately afterwards.
>
> Enact a new rule, with power 2.0, titled "Comestibles", with the following 
> text:
>
>   A Comestible is a type of liquid asset, which can be owned by
>   players. Creating Comestibles is secured. The recordkeepor of
>   Comestibles is the Agronomist.
>
>   The Farmer of an Estate may offer Comestibles by announcement,
>   naming a number of Comestibles offered and a price per Comestible
>   in Shinies. A player CANNOT offer more Comestibles in a month than
>   10 times the number of Farms e owns. The Farmer is ENCOURAGED to
>   name the kind of Comestibles on offer after a plant, vegetable,
>   grain, livestock, or other farm good.
>
>   A player other than the offering Farmer may accept a Comestibles
>   offer by announcement to create that number of Comestibles in eir
>   possession, if e pays the offering Farmer the price per Comestible
>   named in the offer times the number of Comestbiles offered. The
>   Value of a Comestible created this way is equal to the price per
>   Comestible offered by the Farmer.
>
>   An offer expires 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Let's clear things up a bit

[Nic Evans]

On 09/06/17 19:05, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> >From a speech act theory standpoint, any speech act already encodes
> conditionals (that the preconditions match, that the way I invoke it
> performs it, that others recognizes the previous two points, that
> everyone assumes genuine intent). Allowing more conditionals to be
> included is a natural extension.
>
> I doubt enough people will be familiar with speech act theory to
> conclude from that that we can do conditional actions here on Agora.

The idea of linguistics, and all other social sciences, is that they
describe things people naturally do. You don't need to learn the theory
to use speech acts.

>
> >Your conditional doesn't meet it's own requirements. This
> arguably requires me to look through all CFJs, to make sure the
> doctrine hasn't been overturned
>
> lol, yes! That proves my point!
>
> With that, how is anyone supposed to know that it hasn't been
> overturned or not in order to know that we can even do it in the first
> place without that dredging? We're using conditionals without even
> knowing if we can actually do them or not! If they were in rules, it
> would be much more clear.
>
> >For someone concerned about implicit rules, you don't show much regard
> for explicit ones.
>
> I've mentioned before that its less punishing for me to whacked with a
> correction with what I've missed than to dredge through everything to
> see if just in case I've missed something.

Since you lack either empathy or theory of mind and only react to
personal damages:

I pledge to vote AGAINST on all proposals created or pended by Cuddle Beam.

I pledge to Object to all intentions by Cuddle Beam that I can object to.

I pledge to not acknowledge any messages Cuddle Beam sends to a-d, or to
respond in a-d to anything CB does.

I pledge to give a trust token and 5 shinies (as soon as possible) to
any other player who also performs the above three pledges, except
Cuddle Beam.

>
> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 1:53 AM, Nic Evans <nich...@gmail.com
> <mailto:nich...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 09/06/17 18:16, Cuddle Beam wrote:
>> Note: we have explicit conditional voting, but not conditional
>> explicit action-doing in general.
>>
>> I'm in favor of conditional action-doing in general because it's
>> another useful tool for doing stuff (...and the rules are silent
>> on the issue).
>
> Voting has an explicit conditional mechanism because it's a
> delayed action. The conditional for a vote doesn't need to be
> interpretable at time of declaration, but instead at time of
> resolution.
>
> Other things don't need explicit mechanisms because we don't
> generally care about the manner of an action. The exceptions being
> listed in the rules, when something need be 'by announcement' or
> with a previously announced intent.
>
> From a speech act theory standpoint, any speech act already
> encodes conditionals (that the preconditions match, that the way I
> invoke it performs it, that others recognizes the previous two
> points, that everyone assumes genuine intent). Allowing more
> conditionals to be included is a natural extension.
>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Aris Merchant
>> <thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> If there are no regulations, no part of this message beyond this
>> paragraph has any effect.
>>
>> I determine the regulations for the recent tournament to be
>> in title
>> T1-2017, or, if that title name is invalid, 1-2017. If I am
>> Regkeepor,
>> this is the official designation for that title; otherwise, I
>> deputize
>> for the Regkeepor to assign this designation.
>>
>> I then assign the ID T1-2017-1 (or, if that is invalid,
>> 1-2017-1) to
>> the only regulation in that title. If I am still not Regkeepor, I
>> deputize for Regkeepor to do so, and then repeat the actions
>> attempted
>> in the previous paragraph.
>>
>> In accordance with Rule 2464, I repeal each regulation in title
>> T1-2017 (or, if invalid, 1-2017).
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>>
>
>



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Let's clear things up a bit

[Nic Evans]

On 09/06/17 18:47, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> I think that's great for Agora but if its based on a CFJ or tradition,
> that's more of the "implicit rules" (or "obscure rules") phenomenon
> which I dislike. Conditional-ing stuff is as powerful as a real
> mechanic imo, and one of the most powerful ones. Luckily proposals are
> real cheap now, and I get rewarded for making good proposals, time to
> make it explicit! I'll pend this next week once I get APs back.

Also, you won't get an award for any proposals pended by AP.

For someone concerned about implicit rules, you don't show much regard
for explicit ones.

>
> If adding conditions to actions performed via fora is a mechanic which
> is explicitly acknowledged to exist in CFJs but not in the current
> Rules, I create the following Proposal:
>
> Name: "Conditionaling" actions is a very useful mechanic
> Content: Add to the rule "Fora" the following as a new paragraph at
> the bottom of the rule:
>
> "Actions can be stated to be performed conditionally, if such
> conditions are evaluable (by any player, with a reasonable amount of
> effort) at the time it is stated and at any future moment from then.
>
> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 1:25 AM, Aris Merchant
>  > wrote:
>
> Oh, no, we definitely have conditional actioning (consider that a
> nonce). The condition just has to be evaluable at the time it is said,
> so no future conditionals. At least, that's my understanding.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Cuddle Beam  > wrote:
> > Note: we have explicit conditional voting, but not conditional
> explicit
> > action-doing in general.
> >
> > I'm in favor of conditional action-doing in general because it's
> another
> > useful tool for doing stuff (...and the rules are silent on the
> issue).
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Aris Merchant
> >  > wrote:
> >>
> >> If there are no regulations, no part of this message beyond this
> >> paragraph has any effect.
> >>
> >> I determine the regulations for the recent tournament to be in
> title
> >> T1-2017, or, if that title name is invalid, 1-2017. If I am
> Regkeepor,
> >> this is the official designation for that title; otherwise, I
> deputize
> >> for the Regkeepor to assign this designation.
> >>
> >> I then assign the ID T1-2017-1 (or, if that is invalid,
> 1-2017-1) to
> >> the only regulation in that title. If I am still not Regkeepor, I
> >> deputize for Regkeepor to do so, and then repeat the actions
> attempted
> >> in the previous paragraph.
> >>
> >> In accordance with Rule 2464, I repeal each regulation in title
> >> T1-2017 (or, if invalid, 1-2017).
> >>
> >> -Aris
> >
> >
>
>



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BUS: Stamp Purchase

[Nic Evans]

I pay Agora 4 sh to create a stamp.




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Re: BUS: Monsters

[Nic Evans]

Right now, under my reading, Monsters don't do anything when created? In
my experience stub mechanics wither before being expanded upon. I'd
suggest making a more clear usage of Monsters. Additionally your
proposal should specify AI and Power for the enacted rule.


On 09/04/17 23:16, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> I create the following proposal and pend it with 1 Action Point:
>
> - Title: Monsters
>
> - Content: Create a rule that titled "Monsters" and with the following
> content:
>
> "Monsters are entities that exist within Estates and are tracked by
> the Surveyor. Monsters have a name which is a string of text and an
> amount of Power, which is equal to the amount of characters their name
> string has. (eg, an "Imp" has a Power of 3, and a "Pit Demon" has a
> power of 9).
>
> Players CAN, by announcement, cause themselves to lose a positive
> integer amount of Stamps and create a Monster at an Estate of their
> choice with Power equal to, at most, the square of the Stamps they
> chose to lose."




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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Surveyor] September Estate Auction

[Nic Evans]

I bid 15 shinies.


On 09/02/17 16:26, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> I bid 15 shinies.
>
> Cagliostro is a warren of narrow windy streets running through tall
> close-packed apartments; it's been the collection point for new arrivals
> in the port since the city was a small landing point, with cheap spaces
> and a multitude of languages heard across the alleyways; the smell is a
> blend of cooking pots from a dozen cuisines that is just on the correct
> side of being welcoming rather than rank.  The streets confuse the 
> unfamiliar traveler, but wander long enough and you'll find yourself
> coming to a central square; and your eyes won't help but be drawn
> the Magician's Inn, a ramshackle building with layers upon layer of
> colorful but flaking paint, wherein it is said that if you can't find
> someone to tell you a specific story, that story hasn't been invented yet.
>
> On Sat, 2 Sep 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
>
>> I bid 13 shinies.
>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 00:59 Quazie  wrote:
>>   I bid 12 shinies.
>>
>> The Cagliostro what a place - a lovely little shithole passed from scammer 
>> to slum lord, and it has finally ehard up here: agoran public housing.  It's 
>> not much, but there's a roof, and it mostly
>> doesn't leak, it's got walls, and they mostly don't have mice living  in 
>> them - it's got beds, and some of them don't  have bed bugs.  But you're out 
>> on your luck, so this will have to do.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 21:09 Nicholas Evans  wrote:
>>   I bid 11 shinies. I'll write a blurb later.
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2017 11:02 PM, "Owen Jacobson"  wrote:
>>   As Surveyor, it is my pleasure to annouce that the September estate 
>> auction, for the estate of Cagliostro, has begun.
>>
>>   For those of you who are new, please review Rule 2491 (“Estate 
>> Auctions”). In summary:
>>
>>   * Bids may only be placed by announcement.
>>   * Players may bid on their own behalf, to win the Estate for 
>> themselves.
>>   * Players may bid on behalf of any Organization whose charter makes 
>> such a bid Appropriate, to win the Estate for that Organization.
>>
>>   The auction will end in exactly seven days.
>>
>>   As is my custom, I pledge as follows:
>>
>>   * If there is exactly one winning bid, and it includes a blurb 
>> describing the region of Cagliostro, of at least 70 words, I will include 
>> that blurb in at least one future
>>   Surveyor’s report if it is possible for me to do so.
>>
>>   * If there is exactly one winning bid, I will pay Shinies to the 
>> player who made the bid. The amount paid will be the lesser of 10% the 
>> winning bid, rounded up, or 50 Shinies. I
>>   will do so immediately after resolving the auction.
>>
>>   I bid 1 Shiny on this auction.
>>
>>   -o
>>
>>
>>




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BUS: Proposal: Better Accounting

[Nic Evans]

Pretty self explanatory.

Title: Better Accounting
Author: nichdel
Co-authors:
AI: 1

Amend R2496 "Rewards" by, at the end of the first paragraph, adding:

    When a player claims a reward, e SHALL list the number of shinies e
    receives, or it is INEFFECTIVE.
   
Amend R2497 "Floating Value" by, at the end, adding:

    When the Secretary flips the Floating Value, e SHOULD note the new
    values for rewards and expenses.




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BUS: Proposal: Debts, an AP replacement

[Nic Evans]

Instead of choosing between AP and Shinies, players can create CFJs and
Pend proposals and automatically create Debts. As proposed, there's no
upper limit on Debts. The downsides of debts are being locked out of
stamps and auctions, and I'd add the agoraculture mechanism if that
passes. This proposal also encourages (but doesn't require) the Arbitor
and Promotor to note the Debts involved with their offices for convenience.

Title: Debts
Author: nichdel
Co-authors: o, grok, aris
AI: 3

Enact a new, power-2 rule titled "Debts"

   Debts are a fixed, indestructible currency. The Secretary is the
   recordkeepor of debts.

   If a rule specifies something can be done by 'accruing x Debt' then a
   player CAN do the specified action by increasing eir Debt balance by
   x.

   A player CAN, by announcement, pay Agora a specified number of
   shinies to decrease eir Debts balance by the same number. Any attempt
   to decrease any Debts balance past 0 is INEFFECTIVE.

Repeal "Action Points"

Amend R991 "Calls for Judgement" to read, in full:

   Any person (the initiator) can initiate a Call for Judgement (CFJ,
   syn. Judicial Case), specifying a statement to be inquired into by
   either paying the CFJ Fee in shinies or by accruing the same amount
   of debt. If neither method is specified, the initiator does the
   latter.

   The CFJ Fee is N/5 * 1/20th the Floating Value, where N is the number
   of CFJs the initiator has already initiated in the same Agoran Week.

   If a person is not a player, e can initiate a CFJ without paying
   shinies or increasing eir Debts balance.

   When a person initiates a Call for Judgement, e may optionally bar
   one person from the case.
  
   At any time, each CFJ is either open (default), suspended, or
   assigned exactly one judgement.

   The Arbitor is an office, responsible for the administration of
   justice in a manner that is fair for emself, if not for the rest of
   Agora.

   When a CFJ has no judge assigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any player
   to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so within a week. The
   players eligible to be assigned as judge are all players except the
   initiator and the person barred (if any). The Arbitor SHALL assign
   judges over time such that all interested players have reasonably
   equal opportunities to judge. If a CFJ has no judge assigned, then
   any player eligible to judge that CFJ CAN assign it to emself Without
   3 Objections.
  
   When the Arbitor assigns a CFJ a judge, e SHOULD note the Debts
   accrued, if any, when the CFJ was initiated.

Amend "Economic Wins" by replacing:

   While a player has Stamps made by at least 10 different players e MAY
   destroy 10 stamps made by 10 different players by announcement to win
   the game.

with:

   While a player has Stamps made by at least 10 different players and
   eir Debts balance is 0, e MAY destroy 10 stamps e owns made by 10
   different players by announcement to win the game.

and replacing:

   Once per month, a player MAY, by announcement, transfer to Agora the
   Stamp Value, in shinies, to create a Stamp.

with:

   Once per month, any player whose Debts balance is 0 MAY, by
   announcement, transfer to Agora the Stamp Value, in shinies, to
   create a Stamp.
  
Amend "Estates Auctions" by replacing:

    During an auction, any player or organization may bid any number of
    Shinies by announcement.
   
with:

    During an auction, any player whose Debts balance is 0 or any
    organization may bid any number of Shinies by announcement.
   
Amend "Rewards" by replacing:

    Below is an exhaustive list of Reward Conditions and eir rewards:

   * The following two only apply to proposals that were pended via
   spending shinies:

  - Being the author of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
  Floating Value.

  - Being the pender of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
  Floating Value.

   * Judging a CFJ, that was created via spending shinies, that e was
   assigned to: 1/20th the current Floating Value.

   * Publishing a duty-fulfilling report: 5 shinies.

   * Resolving an Agoran Decision for the first time this week: 5
   shinies.

with:

    Below is an exhaustive list of Reward Conditions and eir rewards:

   * Being the author of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
   Floating Value.

   * Being the pender of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
   Floating Value.

   * Judging a CFJ that e was assigned to: 1/20th the current
   Floating Value.

   * Publishing a duty-fulfilling report: 5 shinies.

   * Resolving an Agoran Decision for the first time this week: 5
   shinies.

Amend R2445 "How to Pend a Proposal" to read, in full:

   Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
   proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or
   "not pending" (default).

   Any player CAN flip a specified 

BUS: Re: OFF: [QAZ][ADoP] Metareport

[Nic Evans]

On 08/21/17 18:46, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> Through the mechanism described in the agency “Quazie’s Autonomous Zeal,” I 
> cause Quazie to publish the following report:
>
> Offices and Reports
> Date of this report: 2017-08-21
> Date of last report: 2017-07-08
>
> Informal measures
> -
> Administrative Health [1]: 90.0%
> Consolidation [2]: 2.14
>
> [1] Calculated by the weighted average of # of offices filled/total and
> # of reports not late/total. A higher Administrative Health % indicates
> a more active bureaucracy.
>
> [2] Calculated by dividing the # of filled offices by the number of
> unique officeholders. A higher consolidation rating is not necessarily
> bad, but means Agora is putting more power & responsibility in a small
> group's hands.
>
> NB: The "Holder" column of this report is self-ratifying.
>
> Office  Holder  Since   Last Election  Can Elect[1]
> -
> Arbitor ais523  2017-05-15  2017-05-26
> AssessorQuazie  2017-06-05  2017-05-26

CoE: I am the Assessor.

> ADoP[3] Quazie  2017-06-05  2017-06-09
> Herald  PSS[2]  2017-05-20  2015-07-02 Y
> Prime Minister  Quazie  2017-05-21  2016-10-22 Y
> PromotorAris2016-10-21  2017-05-26
> Referee o   2017-04-17  2017-06-09
> Registrar   PSS[2]  2017-04-18  2017-06-09
> Regkeepor   Aris2017-07-16  Never  Y
> Reportor2017-08-10  2016-08-30 Y
> Rulekeepor  Gaelan  2017-05-17  2017-05-26
> Secretary   o   2016-11-06  2017-06-27
> Speaker ais523  2017-06-01  2014-04-21 Never
> Superintendent  PSS[2]  2017-06-27  2017-06-27
> Surveyoro   2017-05-08  2017-05-10 Y
> Tailor  ais523  2017-05-17  2017-06-27
> -
> [1] Whether an election for this position can be initiated by
> announcement, as per R2154(1). Note any player can initiate an
> election for any office with 4 Support per R2154(2).
> [2] Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> [3] Associate Director of Personnel
>
>
> Office  M[1]  Report  Last Published  Late[2]
> ---
> ADoP[3]   Offices 2017-08-21
> Herald  Y Patent titles   2017-08-09
> Promotor  Proposal pool   2017-08-14
> Referee   Rule violations 2017-08-21
> Registrar Players, Fora   2017-08-20
> Registrar   Y Player history  2017-07-01  !
> Regkeepor Regulations 2017-08-14
> Reportor  The Agoran Newspaper2017-08-01  !!
> RulekeeporShort Logical Ruleset   2017-08-17
> Rulekeepor  Y Full Logical Ruleset2017-08-17
> Secretary OLEBaS[4]   2017-08-21
> Secretary   Y Charters2017-08-01
> SuperintendentAgencies (incremental)  2017-08-17
> Superintendent  Y Agencies (Full) 2017-07-30
> Surveyor  Estates 2017-08-21
> Tailor  Y Ribbons 2017-07-06  !
> ---
> [1] Monthly
> [2] ! = 1 period missed. !! = 2 periods missed. !!! = 3+ periods missed.
> [3] Associate Director of Personnel
> [4] Organizations, Lockout, Expediture, Balances, and Shinies
>
> EVENTS
> --
> 2016-07-19 nichdel deputizes to become Assessor
> 2016-09-10 nichdel deputizes to become Reportor
> 2016-10-21 Aris deputizes to become Promotor
> 2016-11-06 o deputizes to become Secretary
> 2017-04-16 Quazie deputizes to become Superintendent
> 2017-04-17 o deputizes to become Referee
> 2017-04-18 PSS deputizes to become Registrar
> 2017-05-01 o publishes monthly Secretary report
> 2017-05-08 o deputizes to become Surveyor
> 2017-05-10 o elected to Surveyor
> 2017-05-15 ais523 deputizes to become Arbitor
> 2017-05-16 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report
> 2017-05-17 Gaelan deputizes to become Rulekeepor
> 2017-05-17 Gaelan publishes weekly Rulekeepor report
> 2017-05-17 ais523 deputizes to become Tailor
> 2017-05-18 nichdel deputizes to become ADoP
> 2017-05-18 PSS publishes weekly Registrar report
> 2017-05-18 Quazie publishes monthly Superintendent report
> 2017-05-18 ais523 publishes monthly Tailor report
> 2017-05-20 PSS deputizes to become Herald
> 2017-05-20 PSS publishes monthly Herald report
> 2017-05-21 Quazie deputizes to become Prime Minister
> 2017-05-21 Aris publishes weekly Promotor report
> 2017-05-21 o publishes weekly Referee report
> 2017-05-21 Gaelan publishes monthly Rulekeepor report
> 2017-05-21 nichdel appointed to Speaker
> 2017-05-22 o publishes weekly Secretary report
> 2017-05-22 o publishes weekly Surveyor report
> 2017-05-24 nichdel publishes weekly Reportor report
> 2017-05-25 Quazie 

Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)

[Nic Evans]

On 08/02/2017 08:47 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

On 07/30/2017 02:06 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any 
shinies, stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to 
were void at that time. So here they are again:


Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently 
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.


{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}

I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.

{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}

I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.

{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}

I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA, 
transfer 8 shinies to me.


{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}

I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a 
Voting Session.


I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my 
Proxies.




There's a CFJ out there, but I'm fairly convinced my scam failed. I 
think the only actions that succeeded here were:


* Getting my Welcome Package
* Creating a stamp (nichdel)
* Giving 1 shiny to ASaAA (and receiving 1 ASaAA Proxy)

As such, ASaAA has 1 shiny and is still in an Open Session. Anyone can 
give it shinies for proxies or give it a Stamp and receive its shinies.


I resolve my intent, included below, to amend the charter of ASaAA.


Ugh, I think I attempted this a day before I could. If the above intent 
resolution failed, I resolve it now.


(I'd like to blame a stressful mid-august move for my recent 
brain-meltage. I've been reading all the other shenanigans and working 
on a couple economic fixes that might be presentable soon though.)




On 07/30/2017 01:31 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

Here's some ASaAA fixes (no scams this time I promise). Now any player
can sell eir stamps to the org, members cannot vote for whoever sold
a stamp to the org, members can vote for people who aren't in the
org, and voting sessions can end early if everyone has voted.

I intend to, without objections from other members, amend the ASaAA
charter to read in full as follows:

Agoran Stamps and Awards Association

Boilerplate
---

An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.

For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.

While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.

ASaAA Sessions
-

By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.

During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.

During an Open Session, any player may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends, an ASaAA
Voting Session begins, and the player who did so becomes the current
Patron.

During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any player(s)
except for the current Patron any number of times and in any combination
as long as eir total votes do not exceed eir current number of Proxies.
Members cannot withdraw votes, but they need not cast all votes at once,
or at all.

An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days or after every vote is cast,
whichever occurs first. When an ASaAA Voting Session has ended, any
member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp the ASaAA has to
the member who received the most votes, by announcement. Once a Stamp
has been successfully transfered, all persons have 0 Proxies and a new
Open Session begins.

Re: BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)

[Nic Evans]

On 07/30/2017 02:06 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any shinies, 
stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to were void 
at that time. So here they are again:


Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently 
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.


{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}

I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.

{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}

I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.

{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}

I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA, 
transfer 8 shinies to me.


{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}

I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a 
Voting Session.


I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my 
Proxies.




There's a CFJ out there, but I'm fairly convinced my scam failed. I 
think the only actions that succeeded here were:


* Getting my Welcome Package
* Creating a stamp (nichdel)
* Giving 1 shiny to ASaAA (and receiving 1 ASaAA Proxy)

As such, ASaAA has 1 shiny and is still in an Open Session. Anyone can 
give it shinies for proxies or give it a Stamp and receive its shinies.


I resolve my intent, included below, to amend the charter of ASaAA.

On 07/30/2017 01:31 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

Here's some ASaAA fixes (no scams this time I promise). Now any player
can sell eir stamps to the org, members cannot vote for whoever sold
a stamp to the org, members can vote for people who aren't in the
org, and voting sessions can end early if everyone has voted.

I intend to, without objections from other members, amend the ASaAA
charter to read in full as follows:

Agoran Stamps and Awards Association

Boilerplate
---

An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.

For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.

While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.

ASaAA Sessions
-

By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.

During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.

During an Open Session, any player may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends, an ASaAA
Voting Session begins, and the player who did so becomes the current
Patron.

During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any player(s)
except for the current Patron any number of times and in any combination
as long as eir total votes do not exceed eir current number of Proxies.
Members cannot withdraw votes, but they need not cast all votes at once,
or at all.

An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days or after every vote is cast,
whichever occurs first. When an ASaAA Voting Session has ended, any
member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp the ASaAA has to
the member who received the most votes, by announcement. Once a Stamp
has been successfully transfered, all persons have 0 Proxies and a new
Open Session begins.

Re: BUS: Re: [Registrar] Monthly Report

[Nic Evans]

On 07/31/2017 02:42 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

I claim a reward for this report.



It's been more than 24 hours since this was published. The same applies 
to the other reports.



Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com




On Jul 30, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:



   Registrar's Monthly Report


(all times UTC)

Date of last report: 30 Jun 2017
Date of this report: 20 Jul 2017

Recent events:


Players (17) (Rule 869, self-ratifying)

Player   Contact Registered
--   --- --
ais523   callforjudgement at yahoo.co.uk [1] 20 Mar 11
Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com   13 Sep 16
Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com   27 Oct 07
oowen at grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16
Sprocklemsprocklem at gmail.com  19 Oct 13
天火狐draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16
Zachary Watterson [2]tannerswett at gmail.com26 Mar 17
Quazie   quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17
P. Scholasticus [3]  pscriboniusscholasticus at gmail.com[4] 16 Apr 17
tmanthe2nd   trstnbrdwg0 at gmail.com13 May 17
Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com  15 May 17
Ienpw IIIjames.m.beirne at gmail.com 21 May 17
Veggiekeks   martinjroensch at gmail.com 25 May 17
omd  comexk at gmail.com [5] 03 Feb 11
V.J. Radavijarada at gmail.com   07 Jun 17
Bayushi  thelas.staloras at gmail.com29 Jun 17
nichdel  nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17


[1] also ais523 at alumni.bham.ac.uk
[2] also known as Gumball
[3] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
[4] officially, but technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at 
googlemail.com
[5] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com

Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)

Type Location  Typical use
  ---
Public   agora-official at agoranomic.org  official reports
Public   agora-business at agoranomic.org  other business
Discussion   agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion
Discussion   irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic   discussion
Public   agora at listserver.tue.nlbackup

Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists:
http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list:
http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora

The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client to
server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever
nickname you like.

Other rules pertaining to this office
-
Rule 2139 (The Registrar)
Rule 1789 (Cantus Cygneus)

Watchers (4)

The list of Watchers is not governed by the rules, but is
traditionally maintained in the Registrar's Report.  If you'd like to
be listed as a Watcher or removed from the list, feel free to email
the fora or the Registrar directly.

Watchers confirmed as of May 2017:

Nickname  Contact
  ---
Ørjan oerjan at nvg.ntnu.no

Watchers confirmed as of May 2013:

Nickname  Contact
  ---
Dave  davidnicol at gmail.com
Phlogistique  noe.rubinstein at gmail.com
Steve zardoz37 at gmail.com


Registration history (imperfect, corrections welcomed)

  (a)bandoned   (l)awless
  (v)oluntary   (d)eported
  (w)rit of FAGEderegistered emself by mista(k)e
  (p)roposald(e)stroyed
  (r)atification

Year of Deregistration

Left in 1994:

  Alexx   alexx at world.std.com   5 Apr
  Andy Latto  andyl at harlequin.com   5 Apr
  Douglas Jahnke  chaotic at ksuvm.ksu.edu 5 Apr
  Jim jcs at zycor.lgc.com 5 Apr
  Karl Anderson   karl at reed.edu 5 Apr
  Kirtdankmyer at ac.grin.edu  5 Apr
  Mattpardo at gibbs.oit.unc.edu   5 Apr
v Waggie  dgwagner at math.uwaterloo.ca5 Apr
  Wes wesc at ichips.intel.com 5 Apr
  Timothy timothy.ferguson at jcu.edu.au   12 Sep

Left in 1995:

  Chuck 

BUS: Shiny Smuggling (Again)

[Nic Evans]

Everything in the last attempt failed because I never had any shinies, 
stamps did not exist, and the mechanisms of ASaAA refered to were void 
at that time. So here they are again:


Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently 
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.


{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}

I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.

{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}

I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.

{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}

I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA, 
transfer 8 shinies to me.


{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}

I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a 
Voting Session.


I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my Proxies.

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposal(s) 7867-7868

[Nic Evans]

On 07/30/2017 01:54 PM, Alex Smith wrote:

On Sun, 2017-07-30 at 13:52 -0500, Nic Evans wrote:

Oops, Aris definitely voted Present. Results remain the same, so I
don't think a CoE is appropriate but if someone else thinks so I'll
resubmit,

CoE: Aris voted PRESENT.

I'm CoEing because you did a timing scam against the proposal
resolution and this should throw off the timing :-)


Accepted :(

BUS: ASaAA Improvements

[Nic Evans]

Here's some ASaAA fixes (no scams this time I promise). Now any player
can sell eir stamps to the org, members cannot vote for whoever sold
a stamp to the org, members can vote for people who aren't in the
org, and voting sessions can end early if everyone has voted.

I intend to, without objections from other members, amend the ASaAA
charter to read in full as follows:

Agoran Stamps and Awards Association

Boilerplate
---

An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.

For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.

While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.

ASaAA Sessions
-

By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.

During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.

During an Open Session, any player may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends, an ASaAA
Voting Session begins, and the player who did so becomes the current
Patron.

During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any player(s)
except for the current Patron any number of times and in any combination
as long as eir total votes do not exceed eir current number of Proxies.
Members cannot withdraw votes, but they need not cast all votes at once,
or at all.

An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days or after every vote is cast,
whichever occurs first. When an ASaAA Voting Session has ended, any
member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp the ASaAA has to
the member who received the most votes, by announcement. Once a Stamp
has been successfully transfered, all persons have 0 Proxies and a new
Open Session begins.

BUS: Shiny Smuggling

[Nic Evans]

Since I have not received a Welcome package since I most recently 
registered, I cause myself to receive one now.


{
Me: 50 sh.
Agora: 950 sh.
}

I transfer 40 shinies to Agora to create a stamp.

{
Me: 10 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
Agora: 990
}

I transfer 1 shiny to ASaAA, which gives me one ASaAA proxy.

{
Me: 9 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel). 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 8 sh.
}

I transfer my Stamp (nichdel) to ASaAA and, on behalf of the ASaAA, 
transfer 8 shinies to me.


{
Me: 17 sh. 1 ASaAA Proxy
ASaAA: 0 sh. 1 Stamp (nichdel)
}

I note that the ASaAA has now transitioned from an Open Session to a 
Voting Session.


I vote for myself in the ASaAA Voting Session 1 time, using all my Proxies.

BUS: Re: OFF: [Superintendent] Monthly Report

[Nic Evans]

I CoE this and the Superintendent's Weekly Report published early today: 
Equal Oppurtunity Humiliation is an Agency [1].


[1] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg28930.html

On 07/30/2017 09:26 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

Superintendent's Monthly Report

Long List of agencies:

Agoran SubNomic Corporation  (ASC)
Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
Agents:  All persons
Powers:  Participation is a type of negative boolean person switch,
   like that defined in Rule 2162/8. There exists an instance of the
   Participation switch for each combination of a person and a subnomic
   (defined below). The internal state of the Agoran SubNomic
   Corporation consists of any documents or switches defined in this
   field or in documents defined therein. No amendment to this document
   shall change the internal state of the Agoran SubNomic Corporation
   beyond the explicit textual changes, unless explicitly stated
   otherwise.

Any person with a Participation switch of true between emselves and a
   specific subnomic, may, if allowed by the ruleset (see below) of
   that subnomic, publish a report covering some subset of the internal
   state of the subnomic with which eir participation switch is true,
   on behalf of Publius Scribonius Scholasticus.

A subnomic is an entity having a unique name, a ruleset, an internal
   state, and a playership. The internal state of a subnomic consists
   of any documents or switches defined in the ruleset of that subnomic
   or in documents defined therein. The playership of a subnomic is a
   set of all people for whom the participation switch between em and
   the specific subnomic is true. All members of the playership shall
   be bound by the ruleset. The ruleset of a subnomic is a document
   which governs play of the subnomic.

A subnomic may be created by any person by announcement by publishing
   a ruleset to begin the playing of the subnomic with, declaring a
   unique name for the subnomic, and flipping the participation switch
   between em and the new subnomic to true. Persons may never flip a
   participation switch that is not eir own.

A subnomic may be destroyed by Publius Scribonius Scholasticus without
   objection.

If allowed by the ruleset of a specific subnomic, any person may flip
   the participation switch between em and the specific subnomic.
   Persons SHALL NOT flip eir participation switches to true unless
   allowed by the rulesets of the specific subnomics. At any time, a
   person may flip eir participation switch with a certain subnomic to
   false.


Ben Öyle Öneriyorum  (BÖÖ)
Head: Quazie
Agents:  G.
Powers:  1. The ability to submit proposals.
2. The ability to pend proposals using mechanisms described by the
   Rules.

-♦️-


Gaelan Is Impatient  (GII)
Head: Gaelan
Agents:  All Players
Powers:  Perform any actions Gaelan has listed as Performable By
   Agency, subject to any restrictions e has specified in that
   announcement, if Gaelan has not specified more than 24 hours prior
   that the action is no longer Performable By Agency.


G. is Overlord of Dunce  (GOD)
Head: Quazie
Agents:  G.
Powers:   1 - The ability to give notice to establish Agencies with
   Quazie as the Director or Head and G. as the only agent
   2 - The ability to establish Agencies with Quazie as the Director or
   Head and G. as the only agent


My Kangaroo Driver  (MKD)
Head: Gaelan
Agents:  All players currently registered
Powers:  Any agent who has submitted a proposal that was accepted
   within the past 24 hours which is formatted such that it renders
   properly as Markdown (and contains elements of formatting other than
   simple paragraphs) may cause Gaelan to give them 2 shinies, if
   Gaelan has more than 2 shinies.

Any agent may make another player an agent (with 24 hours’ notice).


Publius Registers for Nomic  (PRN)
Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
Agents:  All Persons
Powers:  If Publius Scribonius Scholasticus is not a player, any
   person may register em as a player.


Scribonius Scholasticus and the Pledges  (SSP)
Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
Agents:  All Players
Powers:  If Publius Scribonius Scholasticus makes a pledge in which e
   pledges X Shinies in return for an action or statement, the first
   player to fulfill the action/statement in the pledge can transfer X
   Shinies from Publius Scribonius Scholasticus to emself.


Who Trusts Quazie  (WTQ)
Head: Quazie
Agents:  All Players
Powers:  If a player issues Quazie a Trust Token from emself, then
   they may issue emself a Trust Token from Quazie


grok's Favorite Player  (gFP)
Head: grok
Agents:  All players
Powers:  1) gFP has a single Name switch. gFP's Name switch can only
   be flipped by the Director of gFP. The legal values for the Name
   switch are the name of any single registered Player as defined by
   Rule 869. If the text of a player's name includes the words
   "deregister," 

BUS: Transfer

[Nic Evans]

I transfer 7 shinies to ASaAA.

Re: BUS: New Proposal: "Agoraculture"

[Nic Evans]

On 07/29/2017 03:08 PM, Ajay Kumar Raja wrote:

Proposal "Agoraculture":


This is a really cool idea. There's a couple main problems though. One 
is that you haven't written it like a proposal, and the other is that 
some of the language you used should be replaced with more common terms 
that have definitions already in the rules.


Check out the last few promotor reports for examples on how proposals 
are usually written (scroll down a bit):


https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg08154.html

https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg08114.html

https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg07955.html

For the big parts:

First, each part of the proposal needs to specify if it is Enacting a 
new rule, Amending an existing rule, repealing an existing rule, or 
re-enacting a rule.


Secondly, a proposal needs to have an Adoption Index (though if you omit 
one the default is '1'). An adoption index can be any number between 0.1 
and 9.9 and you can choose whatever you want. However, a higher AI means 
you need a higher ratio of Fors/Againsts, and a proposal can only modify 
rules with Power equal to or lower than the proposal's AI. In general, 
people set the AI of a proposal to the Power of the highest rule enacted 
or modified.


Now, onto the text of the proposal.



Estates will all have a "Farm Switch" that is by default set to 
"Unfarmed". If a player that owns an Estate pays 15 shinies to Agora 
on the first Agoran day of an Agoran month expressly for flipping the 
Farm Switch on that estate, e can flip the Farm Switch to "Farmed", or 
keep the Farm Switch at "Farmed".


Rule text is written in simple present tense, because rules are about 
what is currently happening.


Additionally, switches need all potential values specified. Thus, the 
first sentence would be more fitting as "Estates have a Farm switch with 
possible values Farmed and Unfarmed, defaulting to Unfarmed."


When a player CAN or MAY do something, we usually add the caveat "by 
announcement" to avoid players doing something secretly. Unless, of 
course, secret actions are the intended result.




While e has an estate with a Farm Switch set to "Farmed",  eir voting 
strength on all Agoran decisions will be twice eir voting strength on 
the last Agoran decision they voted on before any adjustments are 
made. If e voted on multiple Agoran decisions at the same time before 
switching eir Farm Switch to "Farmed", the voting strength e had that 
was a/the highest value out of all the voting strengths e had on all 
those decisions is doubled and consider eir new voting strength on all 
Agoran decisions before any further adjustments are made. If e never 
voted on an Agoran decision before switching eir Farm Switch to 
"Farmed", eir new voting strength on Agoran decisions is 2 before any 
further adjustments are made.


If a player owns multiple Estates, e can choose one at random to flip 
the Farming Switch to "Farmed". If a player owns multiple Estates 
which have their Farming Switches set to "Farmed", the consequences 
will be exactly the same as if e owned exactly one Estate with its 
Farming Switch set to "Farmed".


"E can choose one at random" seems contradictory. "Random" means that 
the choice is made outside the players control. "E can choose any" would 
allow the player to choose one.




If a player that owns an Estate does not pay 15 shinies to Agora 
expressly to flip or maintain the Farm Switch to "Farmed" on the first 
Agoran day of an Agoran month, eir farm switch will be set to 
"Unfarmed" and eir voting strength will become 1 before any 
adjustments are made.


More of a cultural note: There's very few things that have a time limit 
as short as a single day. There's nothing wrong with it, per se, but I 
suspect many players would be against having only 24 hours to act.




If an Estate with its Farming Switch is transferred to Agora, a 
player, or an organization, its Farming Switch is automatically 
flipped to "Unfarmed" regardless of its former state.


Any player who owns an Estate with its Farm Switch set to "Farmed" is 
known as a "farmer".


(If this proposal is passed, an agency will be created that keeps 
track of all farmers and will flip Farm Switches as necessary.)




"Agency" has a specific meaning in the rules right now that's different 
than you seem to intend here. An Agency is a document a player creates, 
that allows other players to act on eir behalf. Normally for things in 
the rules we specify an Officer that does the job.



author: babelian

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Kickstart the new Economy

[Nic Evans]

On 07/28/2017 09:50 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote:

On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Nic Evans <nich...@gmail.com> wrote:

I flip my budget switch with ASaAA to 10.

This will oblige me to destroy ASaAA soon (r. 2461). I don’t think you want 
that, as this appears to be an interesting and active organization…

-o



I flip my budget switch with ASaAA to 50.

BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Nic Evans]

On 07/26/2017 08:43 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote:

Secretary's Weekly Report

Date of this report: Sun, 23 Jul 2017
Date of last report: Sun, 16 Jul 2017


Recent events (all times UTC):

- previous report -
Mon, 10 Jul 2017 02:53:50  Agora paid 18 Shinies (Cuddlebeam)
Tue, 11 Jul 2017 04:35:38  Agora paid 6 Shinies (Murphy)
- time of last report -
Tue, 18 Jul 2017 06:22:06  Cuddlebeam paid 1 Shiny (o)
Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:26:34  Agora paid 5 Shinies (V.J Rada)
Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:04:21  Cuddlebeam deregistered
Sun, 23 Jul 2017 23:38:13  nichdel created Organization "Agoran Stamps
 and Awards Association"

Personal Lockouts: None

Global Lockout: No


Balances:

  288 Shinies  Agora
5 Shinies  Organization
5 ShiniesAVM
  706 Shinies  Player
   73 ShiniesAris
   10 ShiniesBayushi
   32 ShiniesGaelan
   20 ShiniesIenpw III
   64 ShiniesMurphy
   80 ShiniesPublius Scribonius Scholasticus
   41 ShiniesQuazie
   50 ShiniesSprocklem
5 ShiniesV.J Rada
   26 ShiniesVeggiekeks
   20 ShiniesZachary Watterson
   89 Shiniesais523
   81 Shinieso
   70 Shiniesomd
   20 Shiniestmanthe2nd
   25 Shinies天火狐


Budgets:

Player ABM  ACU  ASaAA  AVM  蘭亭社 Expenditure
--
ais523  25   30  55
nichdel 50   50
Murphy   50  50
o50  50
omd  20  20
Sprocklem   25   20  45
天火狐   50   50

Income  50  120 50   50 50  320

ABM = The Agoran Betting Market
ACU = The Agoran Credit Union
AVM = The Agoran Voting Market



CoE: Gaelan paid me 2 shinies (through GII, when I published the 
Rulekeepor report).

BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7867-7868

[Nic Evans]

On 07/22/2017 02:41 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 3.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
also a valid vote).


ID Author(s)AI   Title   Pender  Pend fee
---
7867*  nichdel, [1] 2.0  Economics Overhaul v2   CB [2]  5 sh.


FOR; Was just waiting until rules were updated to double check I didn't 
make any critical mistakes.



7868*  Murphy   3.0  Minor economic fixesMurphy  5 sh.


FOR.

Re: BUS: Equal Opportunity Humiliation

[Nic Evans]

On 07/23/2017 06:49 PM, Nic Evans wrote:
I intend, with 24 hour notice, to establish the following Agency (with 
myself as the director):


Title: Equal Opportunity Humiliation (EOH)

Agents: All players

Powers: Agents may issue a Humiliating Public Reminder for a given 
Agoran Decision on my behalf as long as a Humiliating Public Reminder 
is appropriate for the Decision (per R2168), one hasn't already been 
published for the Decision, and the agent has voted on the Decision.



I resolve this intent and establish this Agency.

Re: BUS: Kickstart the new Economy

[Nic Evans]

I flip my budget switch with ASaAA to 10.

On 07/23/2017 06:38 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

On 07/21/2017 04:22 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

I intent, with 24 hours notice, to create the organization Agoran Stamps
and Awards Association and set its charter to the following:

Agoran Stamps and Awards Association

Boilerplate
---

An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.

For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.

While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.

ASaAA Sessions
-

By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.

During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.

During an Open Session, any member may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends and an
ASaAA Voting Session begins.

During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any member(s)
any number of times and in any combination as long as eir total votes do
not exceed eir current number of Proxies.

An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days. When an ASaAA Voting Session
has ended, any member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp
the ASaAA has to the member who received the most votes, by
announcement. Once a Stamp has been successfully transfered, all
persons' have 0 Proxies and a new Open Session begins.



I resolve the above intent and establish the Organization.

BUS: Equal Opportunity Humiliation

[Nic Evans]

I intend, with 24 hour notice, to establish the following Agency (with 
myself as the director):


Title: Equal Opportunity Humiliation (EOH)

Agents: All players

Powers: Agents may issue a Humiliating Public Reminder for a given 
Agoran Decision on my behalf as long as a Humiliating Public Reminder is 
appropriate for the Decision (per R2168), one hasn't already been 
published for the Decision, and the agent has voted on the Decision.

Re: BUS: Kickstart the new Economy

[Nic Evans]

On 07/21/2017 04:22 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

I intent, with 24 hours notice, to create the organization Agoran Stamps
and Awards Association and set its charter to the following:

Agoran Stamps and Awards Association

Boilerplate
---

An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.

For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.

While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.

ASaAA Sessions
-

By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.

During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.

During an Open Session, any member may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends and an
ASaAA Voting Session begins.

During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any member(s)
any number of times and in any combination as long as eir total votes do
not exceed eir current number of Proxies.

An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days. When an ASaAA Voting Session
has ended, any member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp
the ASaAA has to the member who received the most votes, by
announcement. Once a Stamp has been successfully transfered, all
persons' have 0 Proxies and a new Open Session begins.



I resolve the above intent and establish the Organization.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Superintendent] Weekly Report

[Nic Evans]

On 07/23/2017 03:08 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

Denied, nothing caused it to cease to exist.


I submit the following CFJ: C♥️U is an agency.

Arguments:

Agencies are defined as follows in R2467:

"An Agency is a document empowering persons to act on behalf 
<http://agoranomic.org/ruleset/#Rule2466> of another player."


C♥️U was created by CuddleBeam. CuddleBeam is not a player. C♥️U does 
not empower any persons to act on behalf of a player. Regardless of 
whether it exists, it is no longer an agency.




Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com




On Jul 23, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Nic Evans <nich...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/23/2017 01:33 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

Superintendent's Weekly Report

Short List of agencies:

ASC - Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
BÖÖ - Head: Quazie
C♥️N - Head: CuddleBeam
C♥️U - Head: CuddleBeam
GII - Head: Gaelan
GOD - Head: Quazie
MKD - Head: Gaelan
PRN - Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
SSP - Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
WTQ - Head: Quazie
gFP - Head: grok
⌑შए - Head: 天火狐

New or changed agencies since last weekly:

   There are none.

A History of agency related events:

2017-06-05 - Superintendent's Weekly Report Published
2017-06-05 - Quazie establishes BÖÖ
2017-06-04 - Publius Scribonius Scholasticus establishes ASC
2017-05-27 - Gaelan establishes GII
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam establishes C♥️U
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam establishes C♥️N
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam revokes BGW
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam revokes ACP
2017-05-25 - Superintendent's Weekly Report Published
2017-05-24 - grok establishes gFP
2017-05-23 - 天火狐 establishes ⌑შए
2017-05-23 - Publius Scribonius Scholasticus establishes PRN
2017-05-22 - Quazie establishes WTQ
2017-05-22 - CuddleBeam establishes ACP
2017-05-22 - CuddleBeam establishes BGW
2017-05-21 - Quazie changes GOD
2017-05-20 - Publius Scribonius Scholasticus establishes SSP
2017-05-20 - Gaelan establishes MKD
2017-05-20 - Quazie establishes GOD
2017-05-18 - Superintendent's Monthly Report Published
2017-05-18 - Superintendent's Weekly Report Published
2017-04-23 - Aris revokes PDA
2017-04-16 - Superintendent's Monthly Report Published
2017-02-13 - Aris establishes PDA

[Note: Events and Agencies preceded by a ! are potentially invalid pending CFJ]

[Archive available at https://agoranomic.github.io/Superintendent/]


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com




CoE (possibly needs to be a CFJ): C♥️N and C♥️U are not agencies because they 
do not empower someone to act on behalf of a player (because CB is no longer a 
player).

Re: BUS: [Superintendent] Weekly Report

[Nic Evans]

On 07/23/2017 01:33 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

Superintendent's Weekly Report

Short List of agencies:

ASC - Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
BÖÖ - Head: Quazie
C♥️N - Head: CuddleBeam
C♥️U - Head: CuddleBeam
GII - Head: Gaelan
GOD - Head: Quazie
MKD - Head: Gaelan
PRN - Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
SSP - Head: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
WTQ - Head: Quazie
gFP - Head: grok
⌑შए - Head: 天火狐

New or changed agencies since last weekly:

   There are none.

A History of agency related events:

2017-06-05 - Superintendent's Weekly Report Published
2017-06-05 - Quazie establishes BÖÖ
2017-06-04 - Publius Scribonius Scholasticus establishes ASC
2017-05-27 - Gaelan establishes GII
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam establishes C♥️U
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam establishes C♥️N
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam revokes BGW
2017-05-27 - CuddleBeam revokes ACP
2017-05-25 - Superintendent's Weekly Report Published
2017-05-24 - grok establishes gFP
2017-05-23 - 天火狐 establishes ⌑შए
2017-05-23 - Publius Scribonius Scholasticus establishes PRN
2017-05-22 - Quazie establishes WTQ
2017-05-22 - CuddleBeam establishes ACP
2017-05-22 - CuddleBeam establishes BGW
2017-05-21 - Quazie changes GOD
2017-05-20 - Publius Scribonius Scholasticus establishes SSP
2017-05-20 - Gaelan establishes MKD
2017-05-20 - Quazie establishes GOD
2017-05-18 - Superintendent's Monthly Report Published
2017-05-18 - Superintendent's Weekly Report Published
2017-04-23 - Aris revokes PDA
2017-04-16 - Superintendent's Monthly Report Published
2017-02-13 - Aris establishes PDA

[Note: Events and Agencies preceded by a ! are potentially invalid pending CFJ]

[Archive available at https://agoranomic.github.io/Superintendent/]


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



CoE (possibly needs to be a CFJ): C♥️N and C♥️U are not agencies because 
they do not empower someone to act on behalf of a player (because CB is 
no longer a player).

Re: BUS: [Registrar] Weekly Report

[Nic Evans]

CoE: I, nichdel, am a player.

On 07/23/2017 01:31 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:


Registrar's Weekly Report


(all times UTC)

Date of last report: 02 Jul 2017
Date of this report:

Recent events:


Players (16) (Rule 869, self-ratifying)

 Player   Contact Registered
 --   --- --
 ais523   callforjudgement at yahoo.co.uk [1] 20 Mar 11
 Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com   13 Sep 16
 Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com   27 Oct 07
 oowen at grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16
 Sprocklemsprocklem at gmail.com  19 Oct 13
 天火狐draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16
 Zachary Watterson [2]tannerswett at gmail.com26 Mar 17
 Quazie   quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17
 P. Scholasticus [3]  pscriboniusscholasticus at gmail.com[4] 16 Apr 17
 tmanthe2nd   trstnbrdwg0 at gmail.com13 May 17
 Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com  15 May 17
 Ienpw IIIjames.m.beirne at gmail.com 21 May 17
 Veggiekeks   martinjroensch at gmail.com 25 May 17
 omd  comexk at gmail.com [5] 03 Feb 11
 V.J. Radavijar...@gmail.com  07 Jun 17


[1] also ais523 at alumni.bham.ac.uk
[2] also known as Gumball
[3] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
[4] officially, but technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at 
googlemail.com
[5] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com

Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)

 Type Location  Typical use
   ---
 Public   agora-official at agoranomic.org  official reports
 Public   agora-business at agoranomic.org  other business
 Discussion   agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion
 Discussion   irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic   discussion
 Public   agora at listserver.tue.nlbackup

 Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists:
http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

 Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list:
http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora

 The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client to
 server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever
 nickname you like.

Other rules pertaining to this office
-
Rule 2139 (The Registrar)
Rule 1789 (Cantus Cygneus)

Watchers (4)

 The list of Watchers is not governed by the rules, but is
 traditionally maintained in the Registrar's Report.  If you'd like to
 be listed as a Watcher or removed from the list, feel free to email
 the fora or the Registrar directly.

 Watchers confirmed as of May 2017:

 Nickname  Contact
   ---
 Ørjan oerjan at nvg.ntnu.no

 Watchers confirmed as of May 2013:

 Nickname  Contact
   ---
 Dave  davidnicol at gmail.com
 Phlogistique  noe.rubinstein at gmail.com
 Steve zardoz37 at gmail.com


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com

Re: BUS: Proposal: Less Strict Faking

[Nic Evans]

If I can, I withdraw the proposal "Less Strict Faking". Thank you and
sorry to anyone who lost shinies pending it. (Especially since I
realized I had 5 shinies after I asked people to pend it.)

I'm currently rethinking not only this but the entire criminal justice
proposal. I do believe we need robust systems to deal with disruption,
that explicit reprimand is a useful tool, and that ameliorative
intervention (like tort law) is productive. But I question the
effectiveness of the current Card system, and I worry about the
direction of my own proposal; a complex criminal system surely wouldn't
look welcoming to newcomers, and might cause as much grief as it intends
to solve. Maybe I've taken a dark turn there.

I think that Justice, in general, can use three tools: Punishment,
Rehabilitation, and Remedy. I think the first is the easiest to jump to
but also the least useful. Exclusionary punishment (limiting voting
power, CFJs, and even banishment) can prevent specific attacks but does
little to decrease the malice of an aggravated person and frequently
alienates the simply belligerent.

Rehabilitation already exists in the current system, and I think all of
us have been pleasantly surprised at its success: Apologies. Maybe a
future criminal system should focus more closely on this. Maybe ALL
punishments should be reducable with Rehabilitory steps.

Remedy is essentially all of tort law, and doesn't currently exist. If
we continue with pledges, orgs, and assets we definitely need it. But
like Punishment, it does little to enlighten or improve the mood of the
offender, and should be used when it helps to provide an overall sense
of fairness to the community.


On 07/13/17 15:37, Nic Evans wrote:
> I submit the following proposal:
>
> Title: Less Strict Faking
> AI: 1
> Author: nichdel
> Co-authors:
>
> Amend R2471 (No Faking) to read:
>
> A person SHALL NOT attempt to perform an action which e does not believe
> to be possible so as to deceive others.
>




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

BUS: Kickstart the new Economy

[Nic Evans]

I intent, with 24 hours notice, to create the organization Agoran Stamps
and Awards Association and set its charter to the following:

Agoran Stamps and Awards Association

Boilerplate
---

An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and no members of the
Organization have publicly objected to it since.

For the purposes of this charter, 'ASaAA' refers to this Organization
and 'member' refers to any member of this Organization. 'Proxies' are an
imaginary asset tracked by the Organization and only changeable,
transferable or otherwise manipulable as defined in this charter.

While there is no asset named 'Stamps', the remainder of this charter is
void and has no effect.

ASaAA Sessions
-

By default, the ASaAA is in an Open Session.

During an Open Session, any member may pay the ASaAA any number of
shinies to receive the same number of ASaAA Proxies.

During an Open Session, any member may transfer one Stamp to the ASaAA
and, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer all the ASaAA's shinies to emself
by announcement. When this happens the ASaAA Open Session ends and an
ASaAA Voting Session begins.

During an ASaAA Voting Session, each member may vote for any member(s)
any number of times and in any combination as long as eir total votes do
not exceed eir current number of Proxies.

An ASaAA Voting Session ends after 3 days. When an ASaAA Voting Session
has ended, any member may, on behalf of the ASaAA, transfer any Stamp
the ASaAA has to the member who received the most votes, by
announcement. Once a Stamp has been successfully transfered, all
persons' have 0 Proxies and a new Open Session begins.




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: BUS: Organization: Agoran Estate Bloc

[Nic Evans]

On 07/21/17 10:58, grok (caleb vines) wrote:
> this seems fun so i'm going to try it.
>
> I intend, with 24 hours' notice, to create the organization Agoran
> Estate Bloc and flip its Charter switch to the following:
>
> Agoran Estate Bloc (AEB)
>
> ==BOILERPLATE==
>
> An amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if intent to perform
> it was announced between 4 and 14 days ago, and there are not two
> objections or or one objection from the acting CEO.
>
> All actions described by this Charter and pertaining to Organizations
> are limited in scope to this Organization.
>
> All references of "AEB" in this document refer to Agoran Estate Bloc.
> All instances of "member" in this document refer to members of AEB.
>
> Any player may become a member of AEB by setting eir budget switch for
> the pair of em and AEB to 25. Any player may leave AEB by setting eir
> budget switch for the pair of em and AEB to 0.
>
> All actions taken in this charter MUST be performed publicly unless
> otherwise stated. Actions using powers vested by this charter that are
> not announced publicly may be ineffective.
>
> ==LEADERSHIP==
>
> The CEO switch is a switch managed by AEB and tracked by the acting
> CEO with valid values of the names of all members and 0, and default
> value 0. When AEB is created, the CEO switch is flipped to "grok".
>
> The Interim CEO switch is a switch managed by AEB and tracked by the
> acting CEO with valid values of the names of all members and 0, and
> default value 0.
>
> At the beginning of the second week of each month, the acting CEO
> SHALL initiate an AEB Board Election with a voting period of at least
> 4 days and no longer than 7 days. All members in Good Standing or on
> Official Warning at the calling of each AEB Board Election are
> eligible voters and valid selections for that AEB Board Election. At
> the end of each AEB Board Election, if there is a clear winner, the
> winner of the AEB Board Election SHALL flip the CEO switch to eir own
> name.

Is there an enforceable punishment for ignoring a SHALL in an org? I
know this org includes one (with its own flaws below), but is there a
default?

> In the event of a tie, the acting CEO SHALL initiate an AEB Instant
> Run-Off Election immediately, with a voting period of at least 4 days
> and no longer than 7 days. The set of valid voting selections is equal
> to the set of players who recieved the most votes in the most recent
> AEB Board Election, and all members in Good Standing or on Official
> Warning are eligible votesr. If an AEB Instant Run-Off Election is
> held and there is a clear winner, the winner of the AEB Instant
> Run-Off Election SHALL flip the CEO switch to eir own name.

Why not always do it IRV instead of two-step?

>
> If there is no clear winner following an AEB Instant Run-Off Election
> and the CEO switch is not set to 0, the current CEO remains the CEO
> until the results of the next AEB Board Election are assessed.
>
> The acting CEO is the assessor for all AEB voting procedure.

As will be mentioned below, this charter doesn't stop CEOs from
violating SHALLs and so I think the CEO can just refuse to ever assess.

> At the beginning of the second week of each Agoran month, the acting
> CEO SHALL report on the status of every switch created by AEB's
> charter. The acting CEO is ENCOURAGED to provide this report in the
> same message in which e initiates an AEB Board Election.
>
> ==STANDING AND FUNDING==
>
> Standing is a set of switches belonging to (AEB, Member) pairs with a
> default value of Good Standing and legal values of the set [Good
> Standing,Official Warning,Suspended,Idle]. All Standing switches are
> tracked by the acting CEO.
>
> At the beginning of each Agoran month, each member MAY pay five
> shinies to AEB in a timely manner. If a member does, e may flip the
> Standing switch for the pair of emself and AEB to Good Standing if it
> is not already set to Good Standing and eir Standing switch may not be
> flipped again this month.
>
> At the beginning of each Agoran month, if a member's Standing switch
> is set to Good Standing and that player does not pay five shinies to
> AEB in a timely manner, any member MAY flip the Standing switch for
> the pair of the offending player and AEB to Official Warning.
>
> At the beginning of each Agoran month, if a member's Standing switch
> is set to Official Warning and that player does not pay five shinies
> to AEB in a timely manner, any member MAY flip the Standing switch for
> the pair of the offending player and AEB to to Suspended.
>
> If the Standing switch for the pair of a member and AEB is set to
> Suspended, that player may pay ten shinies to AEB at any time. If e
> does, e MAY flip the Standing switch for the pair of emself and AEB to
> Good Standing.

Weirdly I think this makes Official Warning a worse punishment. After
you get flipped to it (ie, after 'a timely manner') you can't pay the
normal 5 and you can't pay the 10 that you can pay for 

BUS: Proposal: Less Strict Faking

[Nic Evans]

I submit the following proposal:

Title: Less Strict Faking
AI: 1
Author: nichdel
Co-authors:

Amend R2471 (No Faking) to read:

A person SHALL NOT attempt to perform an action which e does not believe
to be possible so as to deceive others.



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer attempts a stick-up.

[Nic Evans]

I would support, with a fair implementation.

I point my finger at CB for failure to treat Agora Right Good Forever.

I previously deregistered because I thought my explosive response to CB
was my own issue, that e needed time to adjust, and I needed time to
cool off. But I'm now convinced that's not the case. Everything CB does
disrespects the time, effort, and feelings of every other player.

I challenge people who are on the fence about this to point to a single
time that CB has considered other players, or done necessary work, or
done anything at all to make the game better or more enjoyable to anyone
but emself.

On 07/09/17 20:15, Aris Merchant wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 5:53 PM, CuddleBeam  wrote:
>> Via "An asset generally CAN be transferred (syn. payed, given) by its owner
>> to another entity by announcement", I announce that I transfer all assets to
>> myself.
>>
>> How?
>>
>> Because "by announcement", which is the method; "An asset generally CAN be
>> transferred (syn. payed, given) by its owner to another entity"
>>
>> So by announcement, I can make it so there is a transfer (performed by the
>> owner, apparently, but demanded to be so by me) to another entity, which is
>> me.
> That doesn't even make a little bit of sense, and it would need to do
> more than that to get people to believe it. Would people object if I
> tried to bring back black cards, except this time they would be the
> equivalent of an old fashioned sentence of EXILE? I've about had it
> with all this. I'm trying to be friendly, and welcoming, and all that,
> but you've gotten so many people to deregister, and created so many
> convoluted and unnecessary messes...
>
> -Aris




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Re: BUS: Complete Shiny Economy Overhaul

[Nic Evans]

Oops, I forgot to change everyone's balance.

Also if there's no substantial problems noticed, I'd really appreciate
having this pended before the next proposal pool (I don't have any
shinies).

I withdraw Economics Overhaul.

I submit the following proposal:

-

Title: Economics Overhaul v2
AI: 2.0
Author: nichdel
Co-authors: o, grok, Aris

Repeal R2484 "Payday".

Amend the rule titled "Assets" by, after the paragraph that starts with
"An asset generally CAN be transferred", adding:

   When a rule indicates transfering an amount that is not a natural
   number, the specified amount is rounded up to the nearest natural
   number.

And by, after the paragraph that starts "The "x balance of an entity"",
adding:

   When a player causes one or more balances to change, e is ENCOURAGED
   to specify the resulting balance(s). Players SHOULD NOT specify
   inaccurate balances.

{Just intended to make balance tracking easier inbetween Secretary
reports}

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Rewards" with the following text:

   A Reward is a specified amount of shinies associated with a Reward
   Condition. For each time a player meets a Reward Condition, e MAY
   claim the specified award exactly once within 24 hours of meeting the
   Reward Condition.

   When a player 'claims' a Reward, Agora transfers the specified number
   of shinies to the player.

   Below is an exhaustive list of Reward Conditions and eir rewards:

  * The following two only apply to proposals that were pended via
  spending shinies:

 - Being the author of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
 Floating Value.

 - Being the pender of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
 Floating Value.

  * Judging a CFJ, that was created via spending shinies, that e was
  assigned to: 1/20th the current Floating Value.

  * Publishing a duty-fulfilling report: 5 shinies.

  * Resolving an Agoran Decision for the first time this week: 5
  shinies.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Floating Value" with the following text:

   Floating Value is a natural switch. When e publishes eir Weekly
   Report, the Secretary SHALL flip the Floating Value to Agora's shiny
   balance.

Set every players's shiny balance to 0.

Set Agora's shiny balance to 1000.

Set the Floating Value to 200.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Economic Wins" with the following text:
  
   Stamps are an asset, identified by eir creator and tracked by the
   Secretary.

   The Stamp Value is always 1/5th the current Floating Value.

   Once per month, a player MAY, by announcement, transfer to Agora the
   Stamp Value, in shinies, to create a Stamp.

   Players MAY, by announcement, destroy a Stamp and cause Agora to
   transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to em.

   While a player has Stamps made by at least 10 different players e MAY
   destroy 10 stamps made by 10 different players by announcement to win
   the game.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Welcome Packages" with the following text:

   If a player has not received a Welcome Package since e most recently
   registered, any player MAY cause em to receive one by announcement.

   When a player receives a Welcome Package, Agora transfers 50 shinies
   to em.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Action Points" with the following text:

   At the beginning of every Agoran Week, every player has 2 Action
   Points. When a player 'spends' an Action Point, e has one less
   Action Point. If a player has 0 Action Points, e may not spend any
   more Action Points, rules to the contrary notwithstanding.

Amend R2445 "How to Pend a Proposal" to read, in full:

   Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
   proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or
   "not pending" (default).

   Any player CAN flip a specified proposal's imminence to "pending" by
   announcement by:

  a) spending 1 Action Point, OR
  
  b) spending 1/20th the Floating Value in shinies.

Amend R991 "Calls for Judgment" by replacing the first paragaraph with
the following:

   Any person (the initiator) can initiate a Call for Judgement (CFJ,
   syn. Judicial Case), specifying a statement to be inquired into:

  a) by announcement, and spending 1 Action Point, OR

  b) by announcement, and spending 1/20th the Floating Value in
  shinies, OR

  c) by announcement if e is not a player.

   When a person initiates a Call for Judgment, e may optionally bar one
   person from the case.




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Re: BUS: Complete Shiny Economy Overhaul

[Nic Evans]

I anticipate the low AP level to be an objection here. Instead of
deciding on one myself, I figured it'd be easier for anyone who objects
to just introduce a proposal to change it immediately after adoption.


On 06/29/17 20:42, Nic Evans wrote:
> Features:
>
>- CFJs and Proposals can be made by spending shinies OR by using AP.
>AP works like SP, each player getting 2 non-accruing AP a week.
>Actions taken using AP can't award shinies, so there's reasons to not
>use your AP.
>
>- Shinies can be used to buy Stamps. Possessing Stamps made by 10
>different players allows you to win.
>
>- Players claim shinies for meeting conditions, rather than being
>given them by Secretary. This stops inactive players from accruing
>them and eases the Secretary's load.
>
>- Costs and Payouts for several things are based on Floating Value.
>FV changes weekly and is based on Agora's balance. This allows both
>price speculation and manipulation, but indirectly and distributed
>enough to not be completely controllable.
>
>- Welcome Packages, which right now just get players started in the
>economy but could eventually be used to give other assets as well.
>
>
> I submit the following proposal:
>
> -
>
> Title: Economics Overhaul
> AI: 2.0
> Author: nichdel
> Co-authors: o, grok, Aris
>
> Repeal R2484 "Payday".
>
> Amend the rule titled "Assets" by, after the paragraph that starts with
> "An asset generally CAN be transferred", adding:
>
>When a rule indicates transfering an amount that is not a natural
>number, the specified amount is rounded up to the nearest natural
>number.
>
> And by, after the paragraph that starts "The "x balance of an entity"",
> adding:
>
>When a player causes one or more balances to change, e is ENCOURAGED
>to specify the resulting balance(s). Players SHOULD NOT specify
>inaccurate balances.
>
> {Just intended to make balance tracking easier inbetween Secretary
> reports}
>
> Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Rewards" with the following text:
>
>A Reward is a specified amount of shinies associated with a Reward
>Condition. For each time a player meets a Reward Condition, e MAY
>claim the specified award exactly once within 24 hours of meeting the
>Reward Condition.
>
>When a player 'claims' a Reward, Agora transfers the specified number
>of shinies to the player.
>
>Below is an exhaustive list of Reward Conditions and eir rewards:
>
>   * The following two only apply to proposals that were pended via
>   spending shinies:
>
>  - Being the author of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
>  Floating Value.
>
>  - Being the pender of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
>  Floating Value.
>
>   * Judging a CFJ, that was created via spending shinies, that e was
>   assigned to: 1/20th the current Floating Value.
>
>   * Publishing a duty-fulfilling report: 5 shinies.
>
>   * Resolving an Agoran Decision for the first time this week: 5
>   shinies.
>
> Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Floating Value" with the following text:
>
>Floating Value is a natural switch. When e publishes eir Weekly
>Report, the Secretary SHALL flip the Floating Value to Agora's shiny
>balance.
>
> Set the Floating Value to 200.
>
> Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Economic Wins" with the following text:
>   
>Stamps are an asset, identified by eir creator and tracked by the
>Secretary.
>
>The Stamp Value is always 1/5th the current Floating Value.
>
>Once per month, a player MAY, by announcement, transfer to Agora the
>Stamp Value, in shinies, to create a Stamp.
>
>Players MAY, by announcement, destroy a Stamp and cause Agora to
>transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to em.
>
>While a player has Stamps made by at least 10 different players e MAY
>destroy 10 stamps made by 10 different players by announcement to win
>the game.
>
> Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Welcome Packages" with the following text:
>
>If a player has not received a Welcome Package since e most recently
>registered, any player MAY cause em to receive one by announcement.
>
>When a player receives a Welcome Package, Agora transfers 50 shinies
>to em.
>
> Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Action Points" with the following text:
>
>At the beginning of every Agoran Week, every player has 2 Action
>Points. When a player 'spends' an Action Point, 

BUS: Complete Shiny Economy Overhaul

[Nic Evans]

Features:

   - CFJs and Proposals can be made by spending shinies OR by using AP.
   AP works like SP, each player getting 2 non-accruing AP a week.
   Actions taken using AP can't award shinies, so there's reasons to not
   use your AP.

   - Shinies can be used to buy Stamps. Possessing Stamps made by 10
   different players allows you to win.

   - Players claim shinies for meeting conditions, rather than being
   given them by Secretary. This stops inactive players from accruing
   them and eases the Secretary's load.

   - Costs and Payouts for several things are based on Floating Value.
   FV changes weekly and is based on Agora's balance. This allows both
   price speculation and manipulation, but indirectly and distributed
   enough to not be completely controllable.

   - Welcome Packages, which right now just get players started in the
   economy but could eventually be used to give other assets as well.


I submit the following proposal:

-

Title: Economics Overhaul
AI: 2.0
Author: nichdel
Co-authors: o, grok, Aris

Repeal R2484 "Payday".

Amend the rule titled "Assets" by, after the paragraph that starts with
"An asset generally CAN be transferred", adding:

   When a rule indicates transfering an amount that is not a natural
   number, the specified amount is rounded up to the nearest natural
   number.

And by, after the paragraph that starts "The "x balance of an entity"",
adding:

   When a player causes one or more balances to change, e is ENCOURAGED
   to specify the resulting balance(s). Players SHOULD NOT specify
   inaccurate balances.

{Just intended to make balance tracking easier inbetween Secretary
reports}

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Rewards" with the following text:

   A Reward is a specified amount of shinies associated with a Reward
   Condition. For each time a player meets a Reward Condition, e MAY
   claim the specified award exactly once within 24 hours of meeting the
   Reward Condition.

   When a player 'claims' a Reward, Agora transfers the specified number
   of shinies to the player.

   Below is an exhaustive list of Reward Conditions and eir rewards:

  * The following two only apply to proposals that were pended via
  spending shinies:

 - Being the author of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
 Floating Value.

 - Being the pender of an adopted proposal: 1/40th the current
 Floating Value.

  * Judging a CFJ, that was created via spending shinies, that e was
  assigned to: 1/20th the current Floating Value.

  * Publishing a duty-fulfilling report: 5 shinies.

  * Resolving an Agoran Decision for the first time this week: 5
  shinies.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Floating Value" with the following text:

   Floating Value is a natural switch. When e publishes eir Weekly
   Report, the Secretary SHALL flip the Floating Value to Agora's shiny
   balance.

Set the Floating Value to 200.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Economic Wins" with the following text:
  
   Stamps are an asset, identified by eir creator and tracked by the
   Secretary.

   The Stamp Value is always 1/5th the current Floating Value.

   Once per month, a player MAY, by announcement, transfer to Agora the
   Stamp Value, in shinies, to create a Stamp.

   Players MAY, by announcement, destroy a Stamp and cause Agora to
   transfer the Stamp Value, in shinies, to em.

   While a player has Stamps made by at least 10 different players e MAY
   destroy 10 stamps made by 10 different players by announcement to win
   the game.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Welcome Packages" with the following text:

   If a player has not received a Welcome Package since e most recently
   registered, any player MAY cause em to receive one by announcement.

   When a player receives a Welcome Package, Agora transfers 50 shinies
   to em.

Enact a Power 1 rule titled "Action Points" with the following text:

   At the beginning of every Agoran Week, every player has 2 Action
   Points. When a player 'spends' an Action Point, e has one less
   Action Point. If a player has 0 Action Points, e may not spend any
   more Action Points, rules to the contrary notwithstanding.

Amend R2445 "How to Pend a Proposal" to read, in full:

   Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
   proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or
   "not pending" (default).

   Any player CAN flip a specified proposal's imminence to "pending" by
   announcement by:

  a) spending 1 Action Point, OR
  
  b) spending 1/20th the Floating Value in shinies.

Amend R991 "Calls for Judgment" by replacing the first paragaraph with
the following:

   Any person (the initiator) can initiate a Call for Judgement (CFJ,
   syn. Judicial Case), specifying a statement to be inquired into:

  a) by announcement, and spending 1 Action Point, OR

  b) by announcement, and spending 1/20th the Floating Value in
  

Re: BUS: Language Trophies

[Nic Evans]

On 06/29/2017 11:43 AM, CuddleBeam wrote:

>Also, I miss the time when we mostly spoke Spivak
Spivak is useful to too annoying for me to use lol, mostly because I 
have to stop and think about the pronouns I'm using.
I'll keep on using him/she/they as I find most enjoyable, and as a 
variant of English (one that doesn't have Spivak), and given our broad 
language acceptance, I believe it should be all acceptable.


This, to my mind, is beyond the pale. The fact that you're unwilling to 
'stop and think' for other people's comfort. The fact that you are 
either willfully or ignorantly conflating 'technically acceptable' and 
'I can call people whatever I want and not care about eir feelings'.

BUS: Jump In While The Water's Tepid

[Nic Evans]

I register.

I object to all current intentions I can object to.

I note that Agora, the community, seems to be in a worse place than it 
was a month ago. Multiple persons seem to still feel like they're not 
being respected.


I note with zeal that we just lost an old respected player and eir CFJ 
database. Antagonizing another old, respected player who is currently 
making up for that deficit seems to me to be the definition of shooting 
yourself in the foot.


I pledge to CoE any report that acknowledges any action that's 
'performed' in a way I can't reasonably read.


I'm also willing to take over any offices other players want to give up.

Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer aka robin hood

[Nic Evans]

On 06/29/2017 04:38 AM, CuddleBeam wrote:
▪ "Obligations" aren't explicitly defined, but given that "Pledges" 
are within the Category of "Obligations" in the ruleset, I believe its 
heavily implied that a "Pledge" is a type of "Obligation": Betterer 
Pledges says that "A player CANNOT make any pledge that would create 
new obligations for any other person or office, without the other 
party's explicit consent.". Which, in the context of this scam can be 
read as "A player CANNOT make any pledge that would create NEW PLEDGES 
for any other person or office, without the other party's explicit 
consent.". Since my pledge isn't creating any new pledges itself, it's 
not violating that requirement.


Rule 'categories' aren't a thing with any influence over rule 
interpretation. They're arbtirarily decided by the Rulekeepor for 
convenience.


▪ On the other hand, it can be taken that people aren't actually 
_obligated_ to follow pledges in the first place. Breaking pledges in 
itself isn't a violation of anything formal, it would just be not 
doing what a non-binding arbitrary string says, and then likely 
getting a card tossed at you. There is no "obligation" - just a 
punishment if you don't do it. So, since there is no "obligation" 
anyone in the pledge I've made, I'm not violating the requirement of 
that last sentence in Betterer Pledges, so its a valid pledge.


It is a violation of something formal. It's a Cardable Offense.

Even if either of your interpretations were accepted, there's no scam. 
The only way you can be carded is by 'breaking' a pledge, and the only 
definition of 'breaking' in the rules specifies the *creator* of the pledge.

BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

[Nic Evans]

On 05/26/2017 04:39 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

I initiate an election for Associate Director of Personnel, as there has
been no election since the last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to
determine the new Associate Director of Personnel. For this decision, the
vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the players
(PRESENT is also a valid vote).

I withdraw my previous vote on this decision and cast the vote [Quazie].

I resign. I feel like we're spending more time cleaning unnecessary 
messes and discussing irrelevant philosophy than playing Agora. Maybe 
I'm wrong, but either way I'm finding it more frustrating than enjoyable.

BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

[Nic Evans]

On 05/26/2017 04:39 PM, Nic Evans wrote:

I initiate an election for Referee, as there has been no election since the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Referee. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).


I endorse the current officeholder.


I initiate an election for Associate Director of Personnel, as there has
been no election since the last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to
determine the new Associate Director of Personnel. For this decision, the
vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the players
(PRESENT is also a valid vote).


I endorse Quazie if e pledges to run elections for the remaining 
offices. Otherwise I vote [nichdel, Quazie].



I initiate an election for Registrar, as there has been no election since the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Registrar. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).


I vote [endorse PSS, nichdel].

BUS: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

[Nic Evans]

What follows is the initiation of the Referee, ADoP, and Registrar elections
as per the discussion from the Super Election Season thread.

Note for new players: Elections are Instant Runoff, meaning you can cast votes
as a list. Any portion of your vote, or the entire thing, can be a conditional.
A vote of 'present' is largely irrelevant for these decisions.

Note for all players: With your vote, please include any thoughts about
necessary changes to the office and payrates and report rates.

I initiate an election for Referee, as there has been no election since the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Referee. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

I initiate an election for Associate Director of Personnel, as there has
been no election since the last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to
determine the new Associate Director of Personnel. For this decision, the
vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the players
(PRESENT is also a valid vote).

I initiate an election for Registrar, as there has been no election since the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Registrar. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

Re: BUS: [ADoP] Initiating Elections (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

[Nic Evans]

On 05/26/2017 04:23 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Nic Evans <nich...@gmail.com> wrote:

What follows is the initiation of the Referee, ADoP, and Registrar elections
as per the discussion from the Super Election Season thread.

Note for new players: Elections are Instant Runoff, meaning you can cast
votes
as a list. Any portion of your vote, or the entire thing, can be a
conditional.
A vote of 'present' is largely irrelevant for these decisions.

Note for all players: With your vote, please include any thoughts about
necessary changes to the office and payrates. Since it looks like Granular
Paydays will pass, consider both Payrate and Report Rate.

I initiate an election for Referee, as there has been no election since the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Assessor. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

I initiate an election for Associate Director of Personnel, as there has
been no election since the last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to
determine the new Assessor. For this decision, the vote collector is the
ADoP and the valid options are the players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

I initiate an election for Registrar, as there has been no election since
the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Assessor. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

CoE: You have started elections, but have not initiated the correct
Agoran decisions. In each case, you  "initiate[d] the Agoran decision
to determine the new Assessor".

-Aris


*sigh* Accepted. I'll correct this and the metareport soon.

BUS: [ADoP] Initiating Elections (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

[Nic Evans]

What follows is the initiation of the Referee, ADoP, and Registrar elections
as per the discussion from the Super Election Season thread.

Note for new players: Elections are Instant Runoff, meaning you can cast votes
as a list. Any portion of your vote, or the entire thing, can be a conditional.
A vote of 'present' is largely irrelevant for these decisions.

Note for all players: With your vote, please include any thoughts about
necessary changes to the office and payrates. Since it looks like Granular
Paydays will pass, consider both Payrate and Report Rate.

I initiate an election for Referee, as there has been no election since the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Assessor. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

I initiate an election for Associate Director of Personnel, as there has
been no election since the last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to
determine the new Assessor. For this decision, the vote collector is the
ADoP and the valid options are the players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

I initiate an election for Registrar, as there has been no election since the
last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Assessor. For
this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport

[Nic Evans]

On 05/26/2017 03:43 PM, Quazie wrote:
COE Many new SINCE dates are wrong, such as my prime minister, your 
speaker, and ais' arbitor.




Accepted. I used the wrong clock. Now to decide if I want to correct 
them or just remove them...

Re: BUS: I hope i'm wrong

[Nic Evans]

Argument for TRUE: "assigned to a judge" and "assigned exactly one 
judgement" are talking about two entirely different traits of CFJs. 
"Open" refers to if it has a judgement, not if it has a judge.


On 05/26/2017 12:40 PM, Quazie wrote:
I CFJ on the following statement "It is possible to assign judgments 
to CFJs"


Evidence:
{{{
  Rule 591/42 (Power=1.7)
  Delivering Judgements

When a CFJ is open and assigned to a judge, that judge CAN
assign a valid judgement to it by announcement, and SHALL do so
in a timely fashion after this becomes possible. If e does not,
the Arbitor CAN remove em from being the judge of that case by
announcement.
[...]

  Rule 991/17 (Power=2)
  Calls for Judgement

Any person (the initiator) can initiate a Call for Judgement
(CFJ, syn. Judicial Case) by announcement, specifying a
statement to be inquired into.  E may optionally bar one person
from the case.

At any time, each CFJ is either open (default), suspended, or
assigned exactly one judgement.

The Arbitor is an office, responsible for the administration of
justice in a manner that is fair for emself, if not for the rest
of Agora.

When a CFJ has no judge assigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any
player to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so within a
week.  The players eligible to be assigned as judge are all
players except the initiator and the person barred (if any).
The Arbitor SHALL assign judges over time such that all
interested players have reasonably equal opportunities to judge.
If a CFJ has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to
judge that CFJ CAN assign it to emself Without 3 Objections.

}}}

Arguments:
{{{
  Rule 991 states that a case can either be Open or Assigned.

  Rule 591, a lower power rule, states that judgements can be assigned 
to a case that is Open AND assigned.


  Thus, no judgments can be placed, as a case can't be in both states.
}}}

Re: BUS: CFJ 3515 judged TRUE

[Nic Evans]

On 05/26/2017 09:15 AM, Nic Evans wrote:

On 05/26/2017 05:28 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
I judge CFJ 3515 TRUE in concurrence with the judgement of CFJ 3511 
by Gaelan. Further, by this standard any rule-defined or 
non-rule-defined verb is an action. However, what it would be to “24 
Hours Notice” is unclear to me, therefore I believe what is intended 
is to ask whether “to give 24 Hours Notice” is an action. I find this 
to be an action and to be secured if the action for which one is 
giving the 24 hours notice is rule-defined, as “to give 24 Hours 
Notice” is in this context synonymous with “to intent” or “to issue 
intent”. I plan to soon release a thesis elaborating on the types of 
actions, how they can be used, and other action related topics.



Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



I motion to reconsider with 2 Support. The statement "any rule-defined 
or non-rule-defined verb is an action" is a codification of the I Say 
I Did Therefore I Did fallacy.



More elaborated arguments:

I agree with TRUE for the text of the CFJ. The issue I have is that not 
every verb is an action. In fact, not every purported action is an 
action. Players *can* do things by announcement, but many of those 
things require other conditions to be met to be done. It would not be an 
action for me to say "I distribute the following proposals" because the 
action purported isn't possible for me.

Re: BUS: CFJ 3515 judged TRUE

[Nic Evans]

On 05/26/2017 05:28 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

I judge CFJ 3515 TRUE in concurrence with the judgement of CFJ 3511 by Gaelan. 
Further, by this standard any rule-defined or non-rule-defined verb is an 
action. However, what it would be to “24 Hours Notice” is unclear to me, 
therefore I believe what is intended is to ask whether “to give 24 Hours 
Notice” is an action. I find this to be an action and to be secured if the 
action for which one is giving the 24 hours notice is rule-defined, as “to give 
24 Hours Notice” is in this context synonymous with “to intent” or “to issue 
intent”. I plan to soon release a thesis elaborating on the types of actions, 
how they can be used, and other action related topics.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



I motion to reconsider with 2 Support. The statement "any rule-defined 
or non-rule-defined verb is an action" is a codification of the I Say I 
Did Therefore I Did fallacy.

BUS: Proto: Stamps

[Nic Evans]

I submit the following proposal:

Title: Organization Integration and Stamp Collecting
AI: 1.2
Author: nichdel
Co-author(s):

Amend "Organizations" by replacing the second, third, and fourth
paragraphs with:

   Players may become members of an organization by announcement as
   specified by the charter of the organization. Players may stop being
   a member of an organization by announcement.

   An organization may cause any player to stop being a member as
   specified in its charter.

[Remove Budget and make org membership more flexible.]

Amend "Death and Birth of Organizations to read, in full:

   The Administrative Fee is 5 shinies.

   An organization is "In Bad Standing" if it a) has no members or b)
   was not created this month and has not paid the Administrative Fee to
   Agora.

   If an organization is In Bad Standing for more than 7 days, then any
   player CAN destroy it by announcement, and the Secretary SHALL do so
   in a timely fashion if the situation persists.

   Any player CAN create an Organization by announcement by paying the
   Administrative Fee to Agora and specifying a name for the
   Organization that is unique among Organizations and a Charter.

[Replaces Budget with the Administrative Fee. Combined with giving org's
more control over their membership, it allows for orgs to raise money
and pay the fee in whichever way seems appropriate to them. Also removed
the limits on org membership and creation, because the price should be
a good enough limiters.]

Amend "Organization Restructuring" by removing the text "Budget or", and
removing the paragraph starting with "2.", then changing "3." to "2.".

[Budget cleanup]

Enact a power 1 rule titled "Stamps" with the following text:

   Stamps are a type of asset tracked by the Secretary. Each Stamp is
   identified by the person or organization that created the Stamp.
   Stamps created by the same person or organization are fungible.

   The Stamp Price is always 4 times the current Pending List Price.

   Once per month any player MAY, by announcement, pay Agora the Stamp
   Price, in shinies, to create one Stamp in eir possession. Once per
   month any player MAY, by announcement and as specified by the
   organization's charter, pay Agora the Stamp Price, in shinies, to
   create one Stamp in its possession.

   Any player MAY, by announcement, destroy a specified Stamp in eir
   possession. Any player MAY, by announcement and as specified by the
   organization's charter, destroy a specified Stamp in its possession.
   Whenever an organization or player destroys a Stamp in eir
   possession, Agora SHALL pay em the Stamp Price.

   When a player has in eir possession at least one Stamp created by 15
   different players or organizations then e may win by announcement,
   specifying each stamp e possesses. When a player does so
   successfully, all Stamps in eir possession are destroyed.

[This implements what I described previously. Stamps are both a
speculative currency, with a changing value month-to-month, and a
valuable win condition. Also note that with the org changes, a single
player could create all the Stamps e needs, but it'd be more expensive
than gaining them via trade due to the Administrative fee.]




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BUS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposal(s) 7852

[Nic Evans]

I award myself an Orange ribbon.


On 05/24/17 10:01, nichdel wrote:
> I resolve the decision(s) to adopt proposal(s) 7852 as below.
>
> 
>
> [This notice resolves the Agoran decisions of whether to adopt the
>  following proposals.  For each decision, the options available to
>  Agora are ADOPTED (*), REJECTED (x), and FAILED QUORUM (!). If a
>  decision's voting period is still ongoing, I end it immediately
>  before resolving it and after resolving the previous decision.]
>
> ID Author(s)   AI   Title
> 
> *7852  nichdel,[1] 1.0  Granular Paydays (v3)
>
> [1] Aris, o, G.
>
> |  | 7852 |
> |--+--+
> |Gaelan| F|
> |Murphy| P|
> |o | F|
> |PSS[1]| F|
> |Quazie| F[2] |
> |Sprocklem | F|
> |--+--+
> |F/A   | 5/0  |
> |AI| 1.0  |
> |V | 6|
> |Q | -1   |
> |P | T|
>
> Final quorum: 3
>
> [1] Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> [2] "For this proposal I endorse whoever last gave me a Shiny."
>
> -> Last person was Gaelan.
>
>
> The full text of the adopted proposal(s) is included below.
>
> //
>
> ID: 7852
> Title: Granular Paydays (v3)
> Adoption Index: 1.0
> Author: nichdel
> Co-author(s): Aris, o, G.
>
> [v3: added the clarification of 'duty-fulfilling' reports]
>
> [v2: Changed the switches to be natural, fixed not specifying what
> offices are paid, and deleted a typo that suggested the report was paid
> instead of the player.]
>
> Flip the Payrate of every office to 2.
>
> Amend 2484 (Payday) to read, in full:
>
>   Payrate is a natural office switch, tracked by the ADoP, with a
>   default value of 2. Report Rate is a natural office switch,
>   tracked by the ADoP, with a default value of 2.
>
> [Add in Report Rate, which can be adjusted by-office.]
>
>   At the start of each month, if Agora's Balance is not 0 or less,
>   Agora SHALL pay each player 10 shinies.
>
> [Nothing changed here.]
>
>   Immediately afterward, for each duty-fulfilling report published
>   last month (in chronological order of publication), Agora SHALL
>   pay the publisher of the report the Report Rate for the office
>   the report is associated with unless paying would leave Agora's
>   balance at a negative value.
>
> [Pay out for published reports before offices, in a way similar to how
> offices are paid. It's very important to note that, if Report Rates
> were not equal, it'd be possible to pay the 1st and 3rd reports but not
> the 2nd, if the 2nd would make Agora's balance negative but the 3rd
> would not.]
>
>   Immediately afterward, for each office (first in ascending order
>   of Payrate, then in descending alphabetical order of office
>   name), Agora SHALL pay the holder of the office that office's
>   Payrate value unless paying would leave Agora's balance at a
>   negative value.
>
> [This paragraph is rewritten to hopefully be more clear, but it is
> functionally the same except for changing '0 or less' to 'negative'.]
>
> //
>
>




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BUS: Bounty

[Nic Evans]

I pledge to pay 2 shinies to the first person who can clearly and 
correctly identify the last person to pay Quazie a shiny, as long as e 
does so by the end of tomorrow.

Re: BUS: Hello I am Cuddlebeam!

[Nic Evans]

On 05/20/2017 05:03 PM, CuddleBeam wrote:

Hello Nic!

Well I love Nomic lol. I play a lot of BlogNomic and I'd like to try 
out other flavors of Nomic. Agora has it's appeal in that it's 
non-dynastic and I'd like to try that out.


Also, I really really like watching (and doing) fun scams because 
they're like cool fireworks of words and meaning. There seems to be a 
a good amount of that going on right now, so that makes it extra 
appealing to join.



I pay Cuddlebeam 5 shinies.
I pledge to pay 1 Shiny (when I eventually have at least one) to Nic 
Evans if they tell me what's the COOLEST thing that has happened to 
them in Agora (so far).
I'm not very good at describing cool things because I am not very cool. 
(Also mind the difference between nicknames and the From field, though I 
did you no favors by not signing my emails.)

Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer tends crops

[Nic Evans]

On 05/22/17 12:44, CuddleBeam wrote:
>
> Powers: Any Agent may add additional characters to the text content of the 
> Powers of this agency as long as such changes keep these Powers functionally 
> synonymous to the Powers that this agency had at its creation.
>
This power is ineffective. The powers of the agency are a property, and
can only be amended with notice.



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Re: BUS: Request to Join CFJ Pool

[Nic Evans]

While we're on the note I ask to not be assigned any CFJs that aren't
actually intended to resolving conflicts or ambiguity within the course
of normal play. Or, if that's not possible/reasonable, just remove me
from the pool.


On 05/22/17 09:25, caleb vines wrote:
> I would like to be added to the pool of judges for future CFJs.
>
>
> -grok




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Re: BUS: my favorite color is relevant

[Nic Evans]

Language, as used by humans, is descriptive not prescriptive. You can't
force any meanings or content to exist without consensus among users, or
at least formally defining it in the Agoran rules to override consensus.
I recommend DISMISS.


On 05/22/17 08:29, CuddleBeam wrote:
> For the purpose of this message, "Cuddlebeam's Big Language" is a
> language with the following rules:
> * Cuddlebeam's Big Language is identical to English, with the addition
> that the Universe is a pictographic special cipher (in itself). This
> is the Big Cipher.
> * The Big Cipher, instead of being placed in rows or columns of
> characters, is instead left to be where the Universe happens to be.
> This is the correct typographic use of such a cipher.
> * This special cipher has one meaning. That meaning is that the
> message this special cipher is part of is in Cuddlebeam's Big Language.
>
> Note that perceiving the Universe in its entirety isn't a necessity of
> the language, just knowing that the Universe, is, well. There.
>
> This entire message is in Cuddlebeam's Big Language. (And the Universe
> is there. I hope.)
>
> I submit a CFJ for the following statement:
>
> "With a proper choice of what language to employ for an Agoran
> activity which requires language, any content in the Universe (which
> is sufficiently accessible to the intended audience of the use of such
> language) can be made relevant to Agora."
>
> I present the following argument as caller's evidence:
> * Agora doesn't favor any particular language, provided that the
> recipient can understand it.
> * Nomic involves the communication of actions, and language is a
> necessity of communication, so concerns of language are relevant (and
> the rules of such languages).
> * I have an amount of freedom in choosing what language I want to use. 
> * There is no explicit reason to heavily favor more historically
> established languages than others.
> * Therefore, my arbitrarily chosen (but explained) language is usable
> in Agora.
> * Cuddlebeam's Big Language.
> * Knowledge of if the Universe exists or not is a necessity to be able
> to correctly interpret and understand Cuddlebeam's Big Language
> (otherwise you don't know if the cipher is there or not, and you
> wouldn't be able to understand the full meaning of the message).
> * I could've placed any arbitrary sufficiently-accessible content as
> the Big Cipher instead, thus making it relevant to the language, thus
> making it relevant to communication (would I use that language), thus
> making it relevant to a communicated game action (in that language),
> this making it relevant to Agoran gameplay which is built on
> communication itself.
> * If the Big Cipher's meaning of "the message this special cipher is
> part of is in Cuddlebeam's Big Language" isn't deemed sufficiently
> impactful, it can be arbitrarily made more impactful.



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Nic Evans]

It looks like it does.

I CoE on this Victoy Election initation, noting that it does not 
correctly identify the set of valid options.


I also wonder if it's even possible to initiate a Victory Election 
because the actual list of valid options is unknowable at declaration 
(because it can be changed by announcement).



On 05/21/2017 09:29 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote:

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Nic Evans wrote:


On 05/21/2017 05:10 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
I hereby initiate a Victory Election with all players or announced 
non-players as valid options and the Herald as the vote collector. I 
would be in favor of all watchers (Ørjan and others) and G. putting 
emselves into the race. The ballots should be cast in an instant 
runoff format.




PRESENT is also an option.


Does that invalidate it?

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Nic Evans]

On 05/21/2017 05:10 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
I hereby initiate a Victory Election with all players or announced 
non-players as valid options and the Herald as the vote collector. I 
would be in favor of all watchers (Ørjan and others) and G. putting 
emselves into the race. The ballots should be cast in an instant 
runoff format.




PRESENT is also an option.

For each player, I declare Apathy without objection with em as the set 
of players. If no objections are heard in the next four days, I will 
resolve this and many players will win.




I object to all intentions to declare winner by apathy that currently 
exist, except for those that intend to declare me as winner by apathy.


Finally, with Agoran Consent, I intend to grant the badge, "Badge of 
the Great Agoran Revival" to all persons who have sent a message to 
any Agoran Public Forum or agora-discuss...@agoranomic.org 
 in the month of May. This may 
be resolved as soon as four days from now. Also, I pledge to announce 
intent to award this badge to any person posting to any of the 
previously listed lists before May ends, but after this point.


I support the intent to grant "Badge of the Great Agoran Revival".



Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[Nic Evans]

I withdraw Pending List Price Adjustment.

If this distribution is not invalidated or withdrawn, I submit the 
following ballots:



On 05/21/2017 06:54 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, and the
valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote).

ID Author(s) AI   Title  Pender Pend fee (sh.)
-
7853*  ais5233.0  Close Ancient Loopholesais523 N/A [1]
PRESENT; I don't think it's necessary to remove this assessor 'fiat', 
but I'm obviously biased.

7854*  ais5233.0  Close Recent Loopholes v2  ais523 N/A [1]

FOR; This *must* pass to close some terrible loopholes.

7855*  Quazie1.0  Limited Agencies   ais523 N/A [1]

PRESENT; Gaelan is at best half a ninny.

7856*  Quazie2.0  Shiny Releveling Event ais523 N/A [1]

FOR; A great improvement.

7857*  grok  1.0  ALCA [2]   ais523 N/A [1]

FOR.

BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3466 (TRUE)

[Nic Evans]

I resolve my intent to assign CFJ 3466 to myself, if necessary, and
issue the following judgement.

<>

CFJ 3466 is as follows:

  It is possible to ratify an Agoran Credit Union report, and have
  the ratification have some effect.

The first half of this statement, about whether it's possible to
ratify an ACU report at all, is clearly TRUE. R2202/6 provides for the
ability of any player to ratify, without objection, any document as
long as it doesn't change rules or contain factual errors.

The second half, if it can have an effect, is also TRUE. R1551/18
allows for ratification to change gamestate, subject to mostly the
same restrictions as above. And since this ratification is secured at
Power 3, it appears that an ACU report (or any other document) could
be ratified to change anything that has a lower power threshold.

For those reasons, I find CFJ 3466 TRUE.

However, neither of those findings satisfies the caller's underlying
question [1], because it appears that ratification would make the
report part of the gamestate whether or not it was previously.

For this, we should first look at the extent of the concept of 'game
state' or 'gamestate' (apparently interchangeable) in Agora. CFJ 1420
indicates that there are at least some elements of gamestate that make
no appearance in the rules [2]. This lends credence to the idea that
gamestate includes things not mentioned by the rules, but little other
precedent appears to exist here.

This leads us to turn to 'common sense' and the best interests of
Agora. I believe that it would be bad for Agora to conclude that the
internal state of organizations affects the overall state of Agora in
ways that are not intended or expected. However, I do think that
players intend the happenings of organizations to be wholly contained
within the context of Agora. I also believe that players want
mechanisms intended for all of Agora, such as CFJs and conditionals,
to function the same in the context of organizations. Thus, I find it
likely that the internal state of organizations is a self-contained
portion of Agora's gamestate, which can be made a part of the broader
gamestate via ratification as well as any other rule-defined methods.

[1] "The report is concerned entirely with things that aren't defined
by the rules. As such, what could ratifying it change? In particular,
this is a question about whether the Agoran Credit Union's internal
state is part of the gamestate."

[2] https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1420

<>

Re: BUS: CFJ: Ambiguity

[Nic Evans]

I submit the following evidence and recommend DISMISS:

-The caller gives no indication of how this affects or relates to 
gameplay, so it's irrelevant.


I submit the following evidence and recommend AGAINST if DISMISS is not 
accepted:


-"Translation between any two languages is inherently ambiguous." is an 
untrue statement. There is no such rule in language.-'Ambiguous' in the 
rules refers to player interpretation, not some unknowable objective mark.
-Because ambiguity is determined case-by-case, it's impossible (and 
fruitless) to make a statement about the ambiguity of every statement.



On 05/19/2017 02:06 PM, Josh T wrote:

I submit a Call for Judgement for the following statement:

"Every statement is ambiguous."

I present the following argument as caller's evidence:
* Every statement is written in one language.
* Translation between any two languages is inherently ambiguous.
* Therefore, every statement is ambiguous at least in every 
language the statement was not originally written in.
* Agora does not formally make preference to any one language, and 
recognizes differences in dialect (CFJ 1439).

* Thus, every statement is ambiguous.

天火狐

Re: BUS: Hello I am Cuddlebeam!

[Nic Evans]

In any case, I pledge to award Cuddlebeam 1 shiny if e registers and 
explains what brings em to Agora.



On 05/20/2017 11:12 AM, CuddleBeam wrote:

Hello I am Cuddlebeam!

I hope this message goes through lol.

BUS: Judgements of CFJs 3499 and 3500

[Nic Evans]

I judge 3499 and 3500 DISMISS and submit the following arguments:

The rules of Agora, as written, require no specific language to be used. 
In fact, the language of R869/3 seems to go out of its way to avoid 
mentioning any languages [1]. When words and phrases are defined by the 
rules they become part of the embedded language of the game, and cannot 
be said to be 'English' any more than the keywords and syntax of a 
programming language can be.


Rules that refer to ambiguity and resolvability are asking for player 
agreement that something occured a specific way, not that the thing 
itself be objective truth. The entire existence of the CFJ system is 
evidence of this. Given this, if a majority of players decide something 
is 'unknowable', for any reason including eir own inability to speak a 
language, then for game purposes it is. Conversely, if players agree 
that a thing is knowable or a message intelligible, even if it is not 
knowable or intelligible to anyone outside the community, it is for game 
purposes.


There also exists a considerable body of practical evidence that Agora 
is not played only or strictly in English:


-Text in R2029/4 defies any recognizable version of English's grammar [2].
-CFJ 915 explicitly rejects any attempt to require "any particular 
language, method, or format for communications". It also acknowledges 
that not every player need comprehend a message for it to be successful [3].
-CFJ 1460 rejects a message in Turkish, not because it is not English 
but because it is not intelligible to any players [4].
-CFJ 1439 finds that there is no language requirement, and at least one 
decidedly non-English message has succeeded in the past [5].
-The existence of at least one Organization whose charter is not in 
English has been repeatedly ratified and upheld.


Agora, the game, does not require or prohibit any language. Agora, the 
community, is limited to only the messages it can collectively comprehend.


[1] "Any organism that is generally capable of freely originating and 
communicating independent thoughts and ideas is a person."


[2] "Look on our works, ye Marvy, but do always Dance a Powerful Dance."

[3] https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?915

[4] https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1460

[5] https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1439

BUS: Re: DIS: Re: Re: 蘭亭社の憲章の修正箇条 2017/05/19

[Nic Evans]

Honestly, there should be a punishment for calling CFJs without 
evidence. You're creating extra work for at least three other people 
(ais, the judge, G), the least you can do is put some effort into it.


I pledge to dismiss both quoted CFJs if assigned to me without evidence 
by the end of the day.



On 05/19/2017 02:30 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

CFJ: "Agora need not be played in English."
CFJ: "Agora can be played in any language."



Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:54 PM, caleb vines > wrote:




On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Kerim Aydin
> wrote:



On Fri, 19 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> It came up as a CFJ when 天火狐 first registered.

If you follow the actual precedent, it actually *didn't*
accept the
Japanse-character nickname, but instead recommended
transliteration:
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3467


However, that has faced a "soft overrule" in that everyone
ignored it
and continued to use the Japanese characters.  And regardless,
it goes
out of its way to mention that Registration is a special,
lenient case.


On Fri, 19 May 2017, caleb vines wrote:
> Are there any pending CFJ's regarding Organization 蘭亭社?  I
don't see
> any, but I did join after the organization was already
chartered so I'd
> rather be sure.

Not pending, but this one was DISMISSED:
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3478


while noting there was no way to join the organization, so
maybe you
didn't actually join?  Dunno if it's relevant to the current
text of
the organization, haven't been following since that CFJ.



Following this discussion, I submit a Call for Judgment for each
of the following statement:

"天火狐 is a member of 蘭亭社."


Please accept into caller's evidence for "天火狐 is a member of
蘭亭社.":

The decision in CFJ 1460
The decision in CFJ 3478, specifically the following two excerpts:

>There are plenty of lines which are potentially ambiguous; for example,
>paragraph 5 machine-translates as "suitable", and uses the characters
>｢相応し｣ to represent the word (as opposed to ｢相応しい｣, which is defined to
>mean "Appropriate"). However, some experimentation shows that when the
>word is followed by ｢くない｣, the final ｢い｣ is dropped (both incorrect
>combinations are flagged up as a typo by the autocorrect on the machine
>translator I'm using, which is about as clear a message as a computer
>can give on the subject). As such, it seems most reasonable to
>interpret ｢相応しくない｣ as meaning "Inappropriate", even if this definition
>cannot be determined via a simple matching of character sequences in an
>editor.

---

>However, some lines are very clear. Line 3, for example, is a very
>clear statement of possibility for a Budget switch flip. Unfortunately,
>it does not use the word "Appropriate" anywhere, neither in its
>English form, nor anything resembling the specified Japanese
>translations ｢ふさわしい｣ or ｢相応しい｣. An Organization merely
>stating that something is possible has no effect; it needs to
specify
>that the action is Appropriate. As such, I conclude that there's no
>actual way to join this Organization.

BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3465

[Nic Evans]

CFJ 3465 reads:

  If Proposal 7821 were resolved right now, the outcome would be
  ADOPTED.

Because I agree with the arguments included by Alexis [1] and because 
the proposal was in fact adopted shortly after the CFJ was called, I 
find CFJ 3465 TRUE.


[1] {

Caller's Arguments:

Rule 683, as amended by Proposal 7814, gives the requirements for a
valid ballot:

  An entity submits a ballot on an Agoran decision by publishing a
  notice satisfying the following conditions:

  (a) The ballot is submitted during the voting period for the
  decision.

  (b) The entity casting the ballot (the voter) was, at the
  initiation of the decision, a player.

  (c) The ballot clearly identifies the matter to be decided.

  (d) The ballot clearly identifies a valid vote, as determined by
  the voting method.

  (d) The ballot clearly sets forth the voter's intent to place the
  identified vote.

  (e) The voter has not publicly retracted the ballot during the
  voting period.  ("Changing" a vote is equivalent to
  retracting it and casting a vote with the new value.)

  (f) It is the most recent of the voter's otherwise-valid
  ballots.

Note the first sentence "An entity submits a ballot... by *publishing a
notice satisfying the following conditions*". By rule 478, a player
"publishes" something by sending a public message, which this is. While
"notice" is not defined by the rules, it is clear from context, from
Rule 107's use of the same term, and from the ordinary language
definition of the word that a "notice" is a form of document.  In
particular, this means that the evaluation as to whether a ballot is
properly submitted is performed by determining whether the
document---the notice---satisfies the conditions listed at the time of
its publication. Moreover, there is nothing in this or any other rule
which provides for the automatic revocation, withdrawal, or otherwise
invalidation of a validly submitted ballot.

Thus, we can evaluate each of the conditions on each of the 100 notices
given above indicating that vote FOR Proposal 7821.

 (a) The ballots are submitted in this message, which I am sending
 moments prior to the end of the voting period.
 (b) It is without a doubt that I was a player when the decision was
 initiated.
 (c) The ballots each clearly identify Proposal 7821's adoption as the
 matter to be decided.
 (d) The ballots each clearly identify FOR, a valid vote.
 (d) The ballots clearly set forth that I intend to place that vote.
 (e) I have not publicly retracted any of the ballots.
 (f) At the time of the submission of each ballot, it was the most
 recent of my valid votes. While each (except for the last) was
 almost immediately supplanted by its successor in the position of
 the most recent of my ballots, and it has long been possible to
 take multiple actions sequentially in the same message.

Thus, each of those is a valid ballot. Now, in order to determine the
outcome on the decision, we must follow the procedure in Rule 955, as
amended by Proposal 7816:

  Each Agoran decision has a voting method, which determines how
  voters may vote on it and how to calculate the outcome. The
  strength of a ballot is the voting strength of the voter who
  cast it on that Agoran decision.

  The following voting methods are defined:

  (1) AI-majority: the valid votes are FOR and AGAINST. Let F be
  the total strength of all valid ballots cast FOR a decision,
  A be the same for AGAINST, and AI be the adoption index of
  the decision. The outcome is ADOPTED if F/A >= AI and F/A >
  1 (or F>0 and A=0), otherwise REJECTED.

Since 100 ballots were cast by myself, and I have voting strength of 1,
the total length of FOR is at least 100, while the small number of
ballots cast AGAINST it certainly do not have total strength greater
than 33 1/3. Consequently, the outcome of the decision must be ADOPTED.

}