Re: [apple-crop] Copper and Dogs
Pathologist, Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060 On Aug 18, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Fleming, William w...@montana.edu wrote: Lee, can't help you on reading your date but we had a 35 lb. drum of strep dated 1972 that I didn't trust. Had the guys in the lab plate it out, it killed all the bacteria they introduced it to. The drum had been stored in a cool dry place Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 5:52 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 Just my personal experience, dont know if any studies made, I think a lot of the problem is copper deficiancy, after doing leaf analysis, my copper levels were in the bottom of the scale, alsso in soil analysis, added Kocide 3000 to dormant spray, and small amount (2oz per 100 gal) in spring sprays, also copper added to herbicide spray, copper levels in leaf analysis came up but stil not normal, I have less FB and can see the difference. Also, nothing beats staying on top of the situation by walking the orchard every morning and cut it out before it spreads, this works well for small orchards like mine. Most of my FB is shoot blight, I think strep sprays are a waste of $$$. This my be because the strep is old, does anyone know how to read date of manufacture on the bag?? Lee Elliott, Apple Hill/ Upstart Nursery, Winchester, Illinois On Sat, 8/15/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Saturday, August 15, 2015, 11:00 AM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Looking for comments on fire blight management (Weinzierl, Richard A) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:26:58 + From: Weinzierl, Richard A weinz...@illinois.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management Message-ID: f1da5cce7c3ebe43b873f3bd2ba709a73d62b...@citesmbx6.ad.uillinois.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 U of I Kane County Extension Office, 535 South Randall Road, St. Charles, IL Rick From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management Hi Tim! nice to read you! I think there are more sources of fire blight bacteria in the general environment in the northeastern USA due to your woodlots and forests (with feral apples and native hosts such as Hawthorne) as contrasted with the treeless conditions around many eastern Washington orchards. I agree! But still is fascinating to see whole areas without FB and others with FB, despite similar weather. We often make ?false positive? predictions because of this = conditions are great for FB, but not FB develops because bacteria are simply not there. We have nice qPCR data throughout bloom to prove it. The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is accomplished you have an infection. Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? When I reviewed the literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases. We can learn a great deal about interpreting models by looking at the weather data around the time that we are fairly certain that isolated infection events occurred. We can also look at when expected infections did not occur. It would be very helpful to me if any of you would share weather data including rainfall, hourly temperature (or daily temps
Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8
Lee, can't help you on reading your date but we had a 35 lb. drum of strep dated 1972 that I didn't trust. Had the guys in the lab plate it out, it killed all the bacteria they introduced it to. The drum had been stored in a cool dry place Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 5:52 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 Just my personal experience, dont know if any studies made, I think a lot of the problem is copper deficiancy, after doing leaf analysis, my copper levels were in the bottom of the scale, alsso in soil analysis, added Kocide 3000 to dormant spray, and small amount (2oz per 100 gal) in spring sprays, also copper added to herbicide spray, copper levels in leaf analysis came up but stil not normal, I have less FB and can see the difference. Also, nothing beats staying on top of the situation by walking the orchard every morning and cut it out before it spreads, this works well for small orchards like mine. Most of my FB is shoot blight, I think strep sprays are a waste of $$$. This my be because the strep is old, does anyone know how to read date of manufacture on the bag?? Lee Elliott, Apple Hill/ Upstart Nursery, Winchester, Illinois On Sat, 8/15/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Saturday, August 15, 2015, 11:00 AM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Looking for comments on fire blight management (Weinzierl, Richard A) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:26:58 + From: Weinzierl, Richard A weinz...@illinois.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management Message-ID: f1da5cce7c3ebe43b873f3bd2ba709a73d62b...@citesmbx6.ad.uillinois.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 U of I Kane County Extension Office, 535 South Randall Road, St. Charles, IL Rick From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management Hi Tim! nice to read you! I think there are more sources of fire blight bacteria in the general environment in the northeastern USA due to your woodlots and forests (with feral apples and native hosts such as Hawthorne) as contrasted with the treeless conditions around many eastern Washington orchards. I agree! But still is fascinating to see whole areas without FB and others with FB, despite similar weather. We often make ?false positive? predictions because of this = conditions are great for FB, but not FB develops because bacteria are simply not there. We have nice qPCR data throughout bloom to prove it. The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is accomplished you have an infection. Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? When I reviewed the literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases. We can learn a great deal about interpreting models by looking at the weather data around the time that we are fairly certain that isolated infection events occurred. We can also look at when expected infections did not occur. It would be very helpful to me if any of you would share weather data including rainfall, hourly temperature (or daily temps) and especially leaf wetness readings. Please send data that covers days from first bloom to about 3 to 4 weeks after petal fall. Excel files are a real time saver. We?re Also looking for the same type of data?! Vincent -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20150814/cce4e9cf/attachment-0001.html
Re: [apple-crop] Weed Flamer
I used a flamer just last week… on a pre-plant vegetable/small grain research project. 8 foot wide behind the tractor. Method is called a stale seed bed. Have seen several fruit tree flamers in use in North Central Washington in the 1990s. My recollections: All were one big nozzle mounted on the front of the tractor with a trailered propane tank. All the tractors had melted front end plastic body parts, not from escaped fires but from prolonged heat. The flamers wouldn’t damage plastic irrigation components at all but would melt plastic tree guards. The flamers worked excellent on broadleaf weeds, annual grasses so-so, perennial grasses barely. After a couple years of use the in row vegetation evolved into 100% perennial grasses, in the case here, quack grass. Organic growers had to resort to in row tillage eventually. I personally could see using a flamer in combination with tillage as an viable in row weed control alternative. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David A. Rosenberger Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 8:02 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Weed Flamer I’ve never used a flame weeder, but I’ve been on a number of tours where they were either demonstrated or discussed. Folks who have actually worked with them are probably either retired or too busy to comment, so I’ve summarized my recollections from those tours below. If my memory is faulty, then hopefully someone submit corrections and some additional info. 1. Flame weeders seem to work well only on very small weeds/grasses (e.g., up to 3-6 inches tall) and therefore the flaming must be done frequently (about every 2 or 3 weeks?) in warm wet climates if no herbicides are used to inhibit seed germination. 2. As I recall, one group indicated that flame weeders actually work best if there is a bit of dew or moisture on the weeds: the flames heated the surface water to destroy the plants. Although the weeds didn’t look “burned” after the flamer passed, they were actually “cooked” and died rapidly thereafter. 3. At one very large apple and cherry operation in WA state where a significant portion of the acreage committed to organic production, the farm manager told our tour group that flame weeding “involved a significant learning curve.” In their case, as I recall, the learning curve included incineration of several tractors when flames got out of control. Seems that would be less likely under eastern conditions where we are unlikely to accumulate a lot of dry debris under trees, but then anything is possible. 4. Finally one warning that my Pennsylvania Dutch grandmother gave to me and my cousins when we were small: Boys who play with fire will wet their beds! Dave Rosenberger, Plant Pathologist, Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060 On Monday, June 1, 2015, Matt Pellerin m...@treworgyorchards.commailto:m...@treworgyorchards.com wrote: I am interested in the concept of using a weed flamer as a burndown option in my apple orchard. Has anyone had experience using these with fruit trees? What would be the pros/cons? Thanks, -- Matthew Pellerin Agricultural Manager Treworgy Family Orchards 3876 Union St Levant, ME 04456 www.treworgyorchards.comhttp://www.treworgyorchards.com/ 207-884-8354 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] NPR 'The Miracle Apple'
Not quite the same story that Goodfruit Grower told a few months ago. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 406-961-3025 Cell- 406-529-2409 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David Doud Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:04 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] NPR 'The Miracle Apple' On 'Planet Money' today - Jacob Goldstein and Dan Charles spend 15 minutes on the state of the apple industry and the Honeycrisp story - listen here: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/05/27/410085320/episode-627-the-miracle-apple David Doud grower - Indiana this crop looks really nice right now - ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] non-GMO non-browning apples
Braeburn and Cortland are also non-browning. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David Doud Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 10:42 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] non-GMO non-browning apples If anyone has a need for an apple that doesn't brown, I'd be happy to send a stick or three of 'Sweet Emma', a chance seedling from grandfathers farm - white flesh that doesn't ever even hint of turning brown even while it dries to a crisp - a little flattened, red, 2.75, ripe early Oct, mild sweet crisp like a RD would dream of being - vigorous tree, early blooming, very scab susceptible, doesn't fill bins like Melrose or Mutsu, loses quality in six weeks (would probably respond well to 'Smart-Fresh') - I sell quite a few between Oct 5 and Thanksgiving - No charge - no obligation - David Doud ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Kasugamycin for fireblight
Might want to check availability, my area rep for Kasumin total me they were sold out for this season. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Brian Heatherington Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 2:29 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] Kasugamycin for fireblight Planning ahead for bloom: In an area where fireblight is still effectively controlled by streptomycin, would it be advisable to rotate to kasugamycin for one or more sprays, purely for resistance management? Perhaps when models show a borderline need for application? How effective has Kasumin been in Michigan? -- Brian Heatherington Beech Creek Farms and Orchards 2011 Georgia Highway 120 Tallapoosa, GA 30176 770-714-8381 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] lightning
I’ve never seen lightning damage in an apple orchard but have seen it happen several times in grape vineyards. It usually damages the entire row and can even cause trellis poles to explode. Vines recover in a couple of years. My feeling is about the same would happen with apples, if any trees actually died it would only be in the vicinity of the strike. Almost all of the new orchards I’ve seen use metal screw in anchors and/or metal conduit to support trees which should ground the lightning out and limit damage. It would take some very hefty monofilament to compare to high tensile trellis wire. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 406-961-3025 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelly Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 9:10 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] lightning I am not aware of lightning strikes on any wire trellis systems in our area but that was always one of the selling points for using monofilament instead of wire. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.commailto:sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: Anyone know of lightning strikes on wire trellised systems, and the effects on the trees? Has anyone studied the attractiveness of these systems to lightning strikes, and whether grounding and foliage has much to do with it? Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm Gorham ME ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -- Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Planting density for Asian pears
I’m only familiar with the 20th Century and Chojuro varieties but they filled in a 8’ x 14’ planting nicely. I guess the grower could always cut out every other tree if it gets too hard to keep them in their space. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, Richard A Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:13 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] Planting density for Asian pears A new grower bought an Asian pear orchard that was planted a few years ago north of Peoria, IL. Except for pollenizers, it’s all ‘Shinko’, and apparently its resistance to fireblight is very good – I saw only one or two infections in hundreds of trees. They have planted trees at very high density (4 feet in-row by 12 feet between rows); the trees are at least 12 feet tall. Is anyone familiar high-density production of Asian pears? And if so, do you have any pruning recommendations? It’s obvious the density and prior pruning practices will not work together. The fact sheets and similar references that I’ve seen suggest much lower tree densities (218 to 242 trees per acre). Any general thoughts on managing the trees at high density … and what spacing would you recommend for the additional plantings they intend to make? Rick Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence
The only deer deterrent I've seen that works long term is a good fence. I don't doubt you that deer can spread blight. I never believed it until it happened to me but fire blight can also be spread from the smoke (or more likely ash) from a burn pile. When a neighbor removed a block of severely blight Bosc pears the plume of smoke that expanded from the burn pile exactly matched the subsequent infection that occurred on full bloom Gala trees. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 406-961-3025 Cell- 406-529-2409 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:52 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Deer, Fireblight, Liquid Fence Deer browsing on young trees is spreading fireblight, I know this is true, a small fenced in area in my orchard has little to no fireblight while the rest is fire blight city, I am using Liquid Fence,on newly planted trees, its a product made from putrified egg whites, this stuff really works but has to be applied every 10 days or after major rain storms, problem is its is very expensive, a bottle that treats 4 gallons is $30 at the local farm store. I would like to know how to make some myself, does anyone know how to do this?? Lee Elliott, winchester, Illinois On Fri, 6/6/14, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Friday, June 6, 2014, 11:00 AM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles (Fleming, William) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:17:17 -0600 From: Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Message-ID: 0ed0d5ff52b2b3469bc620dba56ed85c8963169...@excms.msu.montana.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nick, as long as you are getting sufficient coverage in both growing systems I would personally find it easier to mix up two different tanks with different quantities of material rather than mess with swapping nozzles. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:54 AM To: apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Thanks for the responses. So when you guys use the spray controllers do you try to maintain the same GPA across all blocks? Seems like if you don't have one (like me) and you mix a tank to apply across multiple training styles with varying row spacing the pesticide rate per acre would be out of whack between them. Here's my scenario. 1.5 acres is conventional free standing and 1.5 is tall spindle. When I did TRV calculations last season and checked the GPM of sprayer nozzles obviously with the difference in row spacing the rate was way higher for the tall spindle block. When I adjusted the gear speed so the GPA would match the free standing block, tractor speed was way too fast ~4 MPH. I suppose I could get another set of smaller nozzles for the tall spindle block to try to keep things even between blocks. Any further advise? Cheers, Nick Lucking Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20140606/d08bb74a/attachment-0001.html -- ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop End of apple-crop Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14
Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles
I use a Raven system on my field crop sprayer and love it. Just punch in the gallons per acre you desire and it automatically measures flow and speed then tells you if you need to slow down or speed up. As Peter said even though the Raven controls nozzle pressure it’s up to you to use a nozzle in the ballpark of the desired GPA plus figure in tree row volume. Ground speed is measured by GPS and is very accurate. Two years ago the Teejet GPS, flow meter, pressure control valve and Raven main computer cost about $850 plus $150 for the 8 foot cable I needed for our sprayer/tractor combo. The computer is the cheapest one Raven makes and will control up to three booms. I see no reason it wouldn’t work on an airblast sprayer. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Peter Werts Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:22 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Sprayer Calibration Between Training Styles Nick, You are correct. To maintain your target gallon per acre application of water you need to consider adjustments to your travel-ground speed, gallon per minute (GPM) flow rate from the nozzle tips and the tree-row width. Changing your pressure will impact your droplet size and not do too much to flow rates, i.e., it takes a four-fold increase in pressure to double nozzle GPM. I have been working with other growers in Minnesota and Wisconsin on calibration. I commonly find calibration to be significantly off where we have variable tree size and row spacing. In 2012 we calibrated 30 different scenarios on 12 sprayers and found over application by 52% and under application by 20% to be very common. The Raven systems are very nice, especially if you have an AgTec. However you still need to make sure your travel speed is calibrated. If your using a high-pressure sprayer, the individual nozzle output should be within 5% of the manufactures specified GPM at a specified pressure. There will be an IPM field day in northeast Iowa on June 20 where we will be addressing calibration. I can send you more information, on this if you like. I can also come out to your orchard and help you with this. Thanks, Peter = Peter Werts Project Coordinator Specialty Crop IPM IPM Institute of North America, Inc. 4510 Regent St.x-apple-data-detectors://0/0 Madison WI 53705x-apple-data-detectors://0/0 Office: 608 232-1410tel:608%20232-1410 Cell: 612 518-0319tel:612%20518-0319 Fax: 608 232-1440tel:608%20232-1440 pwe...@ipminstitute.orgmailto:pwe...@ipminstitute.org www.ipminstitute.orghttp://www.ipminstitute.org/ On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:47 AM, Nick Lucking n...@cannonvalleyorchard.commailto:n...@cannonvalleyorchard.com wrote: Hi everyone, Just curious as to how you guys with larger orchards spray blocks in your orchards when some might be high density and others free standing. Do you do a couple of calibrations with different gear/pressure settings or just do all of one style block at a time? Cheers, Nick Lucking Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
The way to beat the GMO controversy, merited or not, is to use genetic mapping to find plants with desirable traits then cross them into the targeted crop with conventional breeding. I've talked with several anti GMO folks who have no problem with this method but you still can be sure it won't please everyone. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Silsby, Ken Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 8:23 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals In January, I happened to attend a standing room only presentation on communicating about GMO crops at the Mid-Atlantic Convention in Hershey, PA. The speaker was from the Center of Science in the Public Interest. Their web site posts a 24 page bulletin on the subject at the link below. The bulletin provides a good review for those who are in position to discuss the issue with the public. Link to Straight Talk on Genetically Engineered Foods: http://cspinet.org/new/pdf/biotech-faq.pdf Thanks. Ken Silsby Eastern Technical Manager, Apples Mobile: 716.471.5383 | Fax: 716.204.8065 ksil...@agrofresh.com www.agrofresh.com -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Shoemaker, William H Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 9:04 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals I don't know the answer to this question. I'm curious about it too. I also wonder how much of that kind of work is in development. I doubt anyone knows as so much of it is done in the private sector. But I remember conducting trials of pumpkins in the '90s on some virus-resistant GMO pumpkins that derived their genetic material from a different species within the cucurbit genus. I believe it was a wild species that was incompatible for an intergeneric cross. We really need such resistance but it was withdrawn because of perceived market risk. Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edu My question is this: does anyone know how many of the GMO crops/organisms that are currently approved for food crops actually involve genetic transfers among widely-separated species as compared to the number of GMOs that involve only modifications of genes within plants or the addition of virus coat proteins from viruses that are already commonly found in the plant species of interest? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Codling Moth Trap and Attractant
Pherocon CM-DA work for me. Catch both male and female moths. Buy them here http://www.trece.com/pherocon.html# Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Raby, Brian Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 1:13 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] Codling Moth Trap and Attractant All, I've got a young orchard that will start producing for me this year so I figured I better get serious with my pest control. In some of the research information I've been finding on-line, studies have shown that the combination of Pear Ester (PE) and Acetic Acid (AA), along with a clear insect trap, will significantly increase your ability to capture/monitor Codling Moth activity in the orchard. Where can one buy this fabulous combination? Every time I search for Pear Ester or clear insect trap, I get taken to more research articles. A link to where this can be purchased will be outstanding. Your comments on how well (or not) this combination worked for you would be appreciated as well. Brian Raby Hortonville Farms Sheridan, IN ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Glyphosate alternatives
Choteau for preemergent control sprayed in the fall works well for me. Lasts all season, any knockdown sprays in the growing season are very limited. Of course, read the label. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Glen Koehler Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 2:01 PM To: Apple-crop LISTSERVER Subject: [apple-crop] Glyphosate alternatives A Maine apple grower is exploring alternatives to using glyphosate (e.g. Roundup etc.) for vegetation control in tree rows. The reason is concern about immediate and long term effect of glyphosate drift onto trunks. Despite efforts to reduce drift and accurately target herbicide application, grower feels there is still too much risk of trunk contact. There are some lower trunk cankers, but whether these are due in part to previous glyphosate exposure not determined. Orchard is ca. 10 acre pick your own. Ground cover system is permanent sod alleys/row middles with vegetation suppression in the tree row during growing season, with moderate regrowth allowed in late summer - early fall for protection against winter low temperatures. The trees are ca. 15 year old Mac and Cortland on M26. New plantings will be tall spindle. Previous tree row vegetation management has been annual glyphosate application in May-June. The objective is to find program that will provide similar results with less risk of trunk injury than associated with glyphosate. New approach being considered is tree row application of 2,4-D (for annual and perennial broadleaves) + Poast (for annual and perennial grasses) in post petal fall period. Gramoxone (paraquat) as alternative burn down herbicide not acceptable because of acute toxicity risk. Rely provides similar postemergent efficacy as glyphosate (though only Fair vs. Good for perennial grass and perennial broadleaf), but may also share the same trunk hazard as glyphosate. Alley sod management will continue to be regular close mowing. Your thoughts on this approach, and the reasons for making this change (i.e. concern about glyphosate) will be appreciated. -- Glen Koehler University of Maine Cooperative Extension Pest Management Office Voice: 207-581-3882 491 College Avenue, Orono, ME 04473 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Tall spindle trellis
We had rows 2200 feet long between end anchors. 4 wires, 10' high with posts spaced at 42', 3' deep. End posts were a larger diameter, 4' deep at about a 45° angle. Wires and anchors were attached to a 4' long screw in steel anchor with 8 plate. Ground was basically flat. No problems holding a bumper crop. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelly Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 6:24 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] Tall spindle trellis What is the longest length of trellis for tall spindle apple planting that growers have experience with? -- Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Frost protection via overhead sprinklers made mattersworse?
You have plenty of water but the missing hour definitely could have allowed some damage. The accepted method is to leave the water running till ice starts melting rapidly. That's usually an hour or two after the sun is shining. I've had just as good of luck with undertree sprinklers for frost control as overhead down to 25F. Advantage is not as much limb breakage from a heavy ice load with undertree. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Rye Hefley Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 4:50 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Frost protection via overhead sprinklers made mattersworse? Thanks David will do! David Doud david_d...@me.com wrote: slice some incipient fruit thru the equator with your thumbnail or a knife - healthy fruit will have pearlescent ovules - damage will show up as brown tissue - David Doud voice of experience On Feb 2, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Rye Hefley wrote: Thanks Con, The spacing is one 360 degee nozzlee between each tree so each tree is hit from both sides. The ice is gone now and the flowers are still fragrant. The petals are a bit translucent. Stems are still green but may be too early to tell anything. Yeah I worry about the off hour. I guess wait and see. Again thanks. Rye -- On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:11 AM PST Con.Traas wrote: Hello Rye, I am not very expert in this, as I don't use the system, so hopefully somebody else can add more. Regarding the ice and icicles, these would not necessarily mean you had a problem, as long as there was a coating of unfrozen water on them at all times. This would prevent the ice from dropping below freezing point. The fact that the water turned off could be a problem though, as then there would have been no more unfrozen water, and the ice (and buds encased therein) would drop to the ambient temperature. 4gph sprinklers might not be adequate I suspect, or would not protect against a more severe frost (it depends too on how close they are spaced). When I looked into getting frost-protection irrigation for my orchards, the water use would have been many times (perhaps 6 or 8 times from memory) what I would have needed for soil mositure deficit irrigation only. I am afriad that I can't shed light on what a good rate would be, but I bet someone else here can. The good news is I would be very surprised if your trees were damaged by the ice. Con Traas Ireland From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net on behalf of Rye Hefley Sent: Sun 02/02/2014 17:01 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Frost protection via overhead sprinklers made mattersworse? Hello, So last night there was a forecast for 29° for early this morning. Frost NOT in the forecast. So I decided the forecast could change to frost while I was sleeping or the forecasters could miss it so I scheduled the sprinklers. This was my first attempt at frost protection as this is the first producing year for the orchard. First concern: I set the time too short and the sprinklers turned off at 6:30 (worst possible time). Don't ask me what I was thinking when came up with the duration, though I have degree in math, I don't have one in arithmetic. So it was off for an hour before I discovered it and turned it back on. Second concern: using 4 gallon/hour micro sprinklers that produce a thick mist, when I went out there at 7:30 the trees (flowers, leaves, wood, set fruit) were encased in 1/4 ice and icicles. So I think maybe the 4GPH nozzles deliver too little water for frost protection and just made it worse. Also being off for the worse possible hour made it worser still. What would be your assessment on the damage I did this year? (Fortunately only one variety that I care much about. The others haven't bloomed yet so no water on those.) Will the trees survive the ice? Will the fruit that already set be OK? Kiss the flowers goodbye? Will the new buds make it? If 4GPH is not sufficient, in the future what would be a better delivery rate. (Assuming I could avoid the arithmetic error from now on.) Thanks for your insights. Rye Hefley So Cal ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices
in the marketplace. Dave Rosenberger, Professor of Plant Pathology Cornell's Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Office: 845-691-7231tel:845-691-7231Cell: 845-594-3060tel:845-594-3060 http://pppmb.cals.cornell.edu/people/dave-rosenberger On Jan 30, 2014, at 11:52 AM, Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edumailto:w...@exchange.montana.edu wrote: Back when I grew apples in North Central Washington they always said you couldn't grow good apples down south in the Columbia Basin so hardly anyone did. Then someone came up with idea of overhead cooling during the hottest days, the Gala and Honeycrisp planting boom started. Huge plantings in the Basin and their efficiency of scale flooded the market putting many growers in the traditional apple growing areas of Washington out of business. Cooling addressed the problem caused by 100° plus days but did little for cool nighttime temperatures which I feel are essential for growing a good tasting apple. Apples from the Basin of all types can look beautiful but taste foul, sort of ruins the market for growers nationwide. Fortunately the current trend is removing apples and planting wine grapes. Also because of new food safety legislation surface canal and irrigation ditch water isn't allowed to get on the fruit, overhead cooling water must be treated or come from a well. I suspect that even more apples will have to come out due to this. Probably good for all of us to get inferior fruit off the market. Here where I now live in western Montana at 3000 feet we can grow excellent Honeycrisp, it's almost like they were bred for the area. Night time temperatures are almost always in the 50°s no matter how hot the day. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of George Brinson Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:19 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices Same story here on the east coast of Canada maybe it is the climate in which it is grown. HoneyCrisp tastes horrible!! George Brinson From: David Doudmailto:david_d...@me.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:35 PM To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste good? Unfortunately, it's not that hard - We were visiting our son in San Diego in October 2012 (no fruit here, might as well take a trip) and visited Whole Foods, actually caught an upper level produce employee and chatted - he really wanted to turn me onto HoneyCrisp, there was a big display of 4 ones - insipid - and not that good of texture either - On to Trader Joe's, big display of nasty green 2.25-2.75 HoneyCrisp, obviously off overcropped trees - wish I would have taken pictures, but I was on vacation... The ones in the local stores recently have been respectable @ $2.49 to $2.99/pound It's hard to grow good ones - twice the price but half the pack-out - a real temptation to lower standards - HoneyCrisp has generated apple excitement like none other in the last 30 years and has reset the bar - it is the new standard by which other varieties are measured and the traditional varieties don't measure up - Jonagored may compete in its week, but there's no comparison a couple weeks later - David On Jan 29, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Shoemaker, William H wrote: Now the question is, how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste good? Is it the variety? Is it how its grown? Is it postharvest handling? Is it all the above? In our markets around Chicago it is really difficult to find high quality apples of any variety from Washington. They look beautiful, but lack flavor. I think Washington growers produce great apples. They don't show up here. I've had excellent Honeycrisp from local orchards in northern Illinois. In southern IL, they aren't as good. We get Fuji from MI in our local Aldi that are cheap and outstanding to eat. I think local Red Delicious are just delicious. But then, everyone knows, Red Delicious is a terrible apple. Why do we have so much acreage of this apple?!! Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edumailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu The problem is, poorly grown HC are just not good tasting apples. They need a cold winter, heavy thinning to avoid over cropping, calcium sprays every 4-6 days and careful handling. /// On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.commailto:sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: In Hannaford (a major regional
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices
Back when I grew apples in North Central Washington they always said you couldn't grow good apples down south in the Columbia Basin so hardly anyone did. Then someone came up with idea of overhead cooling during the hottest days, the Gala and Honeycrisp planting boom started. Huge plantings in the Basin and their efficiency of scale flooded the market putting many growers in the traditional apple growing areas of Washington out of business. Cooling addressed the problem caused by 100° plus days but did little for cool nighttime temperatures which I feel are essential for growing a good tasting apple. Apples from the Basin of all types can look beautiful but taste foul, sort of ruins the market for growers nationwide. Fortunately the current trend is removing apples and planting wine grapes. Also because of new food safety legislation surface canal and irrigation ditch water isn't allowed to get on the fruit, overhead cooling water must be treated or come from a well. I suspect that even more apples will have to come out due to this. Probably good for all of us to get inferior fruit off the market. Here where I now live in western Montana at 3000 feet we can grow excellent Honeycrisp, it's almost like they were bred for the area. Night time temperatures are almost always in the 50°s no matter how hot the day. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of George Brinson Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:19 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices Same story here on the east coast of Canada maybe it is the climate in which it is grown. HoneyCrisp tastes horrible!! George Brinson From: David Doudmailto:david_d...@me.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:35 PM To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste good? Unfortunately, it's not that hard - We were visiting our son in San Diego in October 2012 (no fruit here, might as well take a trip) and visited Whole Foods, actually caught an upper level produce employee and chatted - he really wanted to turn me onto HoneyCrisp, there was a big display of 4 ones - insipid - and not that good of texture either - On to Trader Joe's, big display of nasty green 2.25-2.75 HoneyCrisp, obviously off overcropped trees - wish I would have taken pictures, but I was on vacation... The ones in the local stores recently have been respectable @ $2.49 to $2.99/pound It's hard to grow good ones - twice the price but half the pack-out - a real temptation to lower standards - HoneyCrisp has generated apple excitement like none other in the last 30 years and has reset the bar - it is the new standard by which other varieties are measured and the traditional varieties don't measure up - Jonagored may compete in its week, but there's no comparison a couple weeks later - David On Jan 29, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Shoemaker, William H wrote: Now the question is, how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste good? Is it the variety? Is it how its grown? Is it postharvest handling? Is it all the above? In our markets around Chicago it is really difficult to find high quality apples of any variety from Washington. They look beautiful, but lack flavor. I think Washington growers produce great apples. They don't show up here. I've had excellent Honeycrisp from local orchards in northern Illinois. In southern IL, they aren't as good. We get Fuji from MI in our local Aldi that are cheap and outstanding to eat. I think local Red Delicious are just delicious. But then, everyone knows, Red Delicious is a terrible apple. Why do we have so much acreage of this apple?!! Bill William H. Shoemaker Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist University of Illinois wshoe...@illinois.edumailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu The problem is, poorly grown HC are just not good tasting apples. They need a cold winter, heavy thinning to avoid over cropping, calcium sprays every 4-6 days and careful handling. /// On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.commailto:sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: In Hannaford (a major regional supermarket) today, all apples were 99 cents per pound, except some smallish, mediocre-looking honeycrisp at $2.49 per pound. How long can an apple coast in the premium price range on little more than the name? Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442tel:207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.comhttp://www.plowsharesmaine.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management
Tree height in a high density orchard depends on your latitude, row width and orientation i.e. N-S or E-W. While a short tree might be ideal if you want to go ladderless at our latitude here in Montana 12 foot tall trees oriented N-S with a 14' drive row take maximum advantage of the sun. I've seen an online calculator for this but don't recall where. My bet is google knows though. To stop or slow down trees from growing taller I just head back to a weaker side branch, hopefully one that has fruited, or you can bend down the central leader to 45° or less with string once it gets to the desired height. I never cut the central leader till it reaches the desired height. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:06 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Makes sense to me now. I've read that Bud 118 doesn't need support. A question I've always had is, Why is it important to not cut the leader? Seems like an idea situation to me would be to plant high density with root stocks that are self supporting and cut the top out every year to two to control the height of the trees. Another thought is that the dwarf trees are really large trees, in my mind - 10+ feet. Seems like a super dwarf that gets to about 7 feet would be idea, planted a foot apart - wild thoughts... On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.commailto:sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: Hugh, What Art said, plus the idea that interstems should to provide a ultimately similar orchard result as with Tall Spindle or other high density plantings, with somewhat less cost per acre due to less support needed and fewer trees per acre; also, the hope is to achieve longer tree life than with straight dwarf rootstocks. I have a few sloped and curving fields that don't lend themselves to post-and-wire, so I am looking for early bearing, high density alternatives. Steven Bibula From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:24 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Steven, Sorry for my ignorance, but why use interstems? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.commailto:sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: I am sorry for not being clearer in my initial post. My main question is about Honeycrisp on various interstems managed with renewal pruning. That is, does anyone have experience with this. Steven Bibula From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:52 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp management Rich, I'm curious about your location and elevation. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Rich Everett reofar...@gmail.commailto:reofar...@gmail.com wrote: I have a couple acres of honey crisp on different root stock and I'd tell anyone that the tree is difficult to grow, susceptible to many diseases from powdery mildew to pith and much more. The apple taste great fresh, we've juiced with the taste not very desirable for juice. Again, the toughest apple tree for us to grow and we have 15 varieties. Good luck On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.netmailto:kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: I've got Honeycrisp on M26 at 5X15 Steve. The 5 looks pretty good but the 15 probably could had been 13. Your welcome to come down to have a look sometime. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, Maine On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Steven Bibula wrote: I plan to trial Honeycrisp on B.9/B.118, B.9/MM.111 and G.11/MM.111. I also plan to use renewal pruning, with no permanent limbs. Considering Jon Clements' recommendation for Honeycrisp on B.9 at 2 feet apart in the row, any thoughts about spacing for these other combinations, or cautions? My thinking: If Honeycrisp on B.9 means waiting to crop until the third leaf, maybe it is better to not rely heavily on Tall Spindle, but instead also go with fewer trees on interstems (cheaper per acre) that will presumably last longer, need less expensive support and still be trained to a compact, U-Pick friendly fruiting wall. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442tel:207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.comhttp://www.plowsharesmaine.com/ ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock
I don't know any numbers but have read that a mature orchard on seedling roots spaced 28'x28' will way out produce a dwarf high density orchard. It will probably cost you twice as much to pick with twice as many processors but the tonnage will be up there. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of dbals...@mnsi.net Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 2:28 PM To: 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock Different subject ... does anyone know what the current world record for apple production /acre is . The last record I have ever heard quoted was a7 year old block of Granny smith apples from New Zealand around 130 metric tonne per hectare in the early 1990's.does anyone know where a person might source such info or r what the current record might be ? Thanks Doug Doug and Leslie 519-738-4819 The Fruit Wagon - Quality Fruit and Flowers in Season www.thefruitwagon.comhttp://www.thefruitwagon.com [cid:image001.png@01CEE608.1FCF28C0][cid:image002.png@01CEE608.1FCF28C0] From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:19 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock I've read that V1 is resistant to fire blight. See: http://www.plant.uoguelph.ca/treefruit/outreach/files/PerformanceandAvailabilityoftheVinelandAppleRootstocks-Dec2006.pdf On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Deborah I. Breth d...@cornell.edumailto:d...@cornell.edu wrote: Is V1 resistant or susceptible to fire blight? Deborah I. Breth Cornell Cooperative Extension - Lake Ontario Fruit Program Team Leader and IPM Specialist in Tree Fruit and Berries 12690 Rt. 31 Albion, NY 14411 phone: 585.798.4265 x 36tel:585.798.4265%20x%2036 mobile: 585.747.6039tel:585.747.6039 fax: 585.798.5191tel:585.798.5191 email: d...@cornell.edumailto:d...@cornell.edu LOF websitehttp://www.fruit.cornell.edu/lof From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Huffman, Leslie (OMAFRA) Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:02 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Jon Clements Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock I agree with Jon, V1 definitely has more vigour. Leslie Leslie Huffman 519-738-1256tel:519-738-1256 leslie.huff...@ontario.camailto:519-738-1256leslie.huff...@ontario.ca From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: October-30-13 2:47 PM To: Jon Clements; Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock Thanks Jon, I did order some V1 trees from Cameron yesterday and I'm glad you told me about the spacing, as I was heading for 4 feet. I''ll plant 5x12 and give you a report as the next few seasons go by. Hugh On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Jon Clements jon.cleme...@umass.edumailto:jon.cleme...@umass.edu wrote: Hugh, see this for a start: http://www.extension.org/pages/60856/apple-rootstock-info:-v1#.UnFOtJRga9U Several growers here in Massachusetts have planted Honeycrisp (and maybe some other varieties?) on V.1 in recent years. The trees have done very well, however, they are larger than B.9 and M.9. Planting 3-4 feet apart is running into some crowding issues. They have been precocious, but I would plant them 5-6 ft. apart using a vertical axis type training. Trees I believe have come from Cameron Nursery. Jon On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote: In my search for a cold tolerant rootstock, I ran across Vineland 1. Any input on this rootstock from anyone? B9 Honeycrisp trees are hard to find so I'm considering V1. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -- Jon Clements aka 'Mr Honeycrisp' UMass Cold Spring Orchard 393 Sabin St. Belchertown, MA 01007 413-478-7219tel:413-478-7219 umassfruit.comhttp://umassfruit.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 /
Re: [apple-crop] Residual pesticide activity
I've also wondered about the negative effects of spraying sugar on fruit, seems like it wouldn't much different than honeydew caused by pear psylla or aphids causing sooty mold. Read recently that some growers were having excellent results with a 5 lbs per 100 gallons white sugar spray to repel birds on apples, grapes and blueberries! Apparently birds can't digest the sugar, it makes them sick and they don't come back. Seems like it might be a great research opportunity for someone. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Glen Koehler Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 6:36 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Residual pesticide activity Hi Art See paragraph in last newsletter. Bottom line is sugar should also increase efficacy of Assail and possibly Delegate against AM but nobody knows if there would be other problems created by spraying sugar on apples. I find the slow start to AM catches perplexing. Only speculation I have to explain it is that they suffered high mortality in winter. But that might be wishful thinking. Next few weeks will tell. - Glen On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Arthur Kelly kellyorcha...@gmail.commailto:kellyorcha...@gmail.com wrote: There is a recommendation to add sugar when making an application of Assail for SWD on berries to stimulate feeding. 1-2 lbs per hundred gal. What about for apples when using Assail or Delegate for instance? My understanding is that when first emerged the flies feed. FYI we trapped the first AM fly on 8/2 here. Only one on five traps. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:33 PM, David Kollas kol...@sbcglobal.netmailto:kol...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Thank you, Art. It is always better to know whether the most-informed have the answers; or whether, instead, they are not sure either. The uncertainty that Reissig expressed in his paper of 2003 apparently continues now ten years later. In that paper he indicated the need for additional research to assess practical aspects of replacing organophosphates with newer chemistries in commercial orchards. A practical aspect of using Calyso or Assail in leu of Imidan that is separate from their mode of action on Apple Maggot, is the question of how to incorporate them into a label-compliant resistance-management program that includes control of many pests in addition to Apple Maggot. David On Aug 2, 2013, at 11:53 AM, Arthur M. Agnello wrote: Hi David, Harvey Reissig did a study on the efficacy of some of the newer products against apple maggot, and published it some years ago: Reissig, W. Harvey. 2003. Field and Laboratory Tests of New Insecticides Against the Apple Maggot, Rhagoletis pomonella (Walsh) (Diptera: Tephritidae). Journal of Economic Entomology 96 (5): 1463-1472 - I will send you a pdf of it in a separate email. However, his general findings were that there are no new insecticides that are as effective in controlling AM as the organophosphates, particularly in high pressure situations. It is also true that most of the new materials are not as directly toxic to the flies as the OPs, and the efficacy of many these new materials appears to be due to their ability to prevent flies from ovipositing as long as they are in contact with their residues. We really don't know the mechanism of this mode of action, but in many laboratory bioassays the flies will not lay eggs on treated apples, although they remain alive. So far, we would say that in most normal US orchards, which are presumed to be initially free from internal AM infestations and are not near abandoned orchards and other large sources of unsprayed host trees, we have not seen control failures or even increased damage in orchards that are not treated with organophosphates, although AM catches in monitoring traps placed along the edges of these orchards appears to be higher than when they were sprayed with organophosphates. As far as efficacy, Calypso is definitely the most effective of the new insecticides, followed by Assail. Delegate and Altacor also have some activity, but would probably not provide control in orchards with internal infestations or those that are near heavy unsprayed sources of infestations. Art -- Arthur M. Agnello Professor and Extension Tree Fruit Entomologist Dept. of Entomology a...@cornell.edumailto:a...@cornell.edu N.Y.S. Agric. Expt. Sta.Tel: 315-787-2341tel:315-787-2341 630 W. North St. Fax: 315-787-2326tel:315-787-2326 Geneva, NY 14456-1371 http://web.entomology.cornell.edu/agnello/links.html Scaffolds Fruit Journal online: http://www.scaffolds.entomology.cornell.edu/index.html From: Dave Kollas kol...@sbcglobal.netmailto:kol...@sbcglobal.net
[apple-crop] Hort Research Position in the Beautiful Bitterroot Valley
Best location in Montana with much public support. Details http://www.montana.edu/jobs/faculty/13-372 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] pressure washers
A $150 washer from Home Depot works for me. I use hot water from a building that has a water heater. Hot water makes a lot of difference. But now if you're using fish oil everything changes, that stuff is harder to get off than most paint. What I finally figured out to do with fish oil was to paint the entire sprayer and tractors with spray oil before fishing season started. After the season was over the spray oil washed off easily with the pressure washer and soap taking the fish oil with it. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana 406-961-3025 Cell- 406-529-2409 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David Kollas Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:27 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] pressure washers Northern Tool and Equipment lists pressure washers from under $200 to several thousand dollars. Would anyone care to advise on needed pressure, gallons per minute, and hot versus cold water, or other considerations in choosing a system to clean exterior surfaces on air- blast sprayer and tractor after each day's orchard spraying? I am looking for an easier/better way to replace garden hose and brush. David Kollas Kollas Orchard Tolland, CT ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] electronic deer shield pro deer control
We used a device from the same company with the same mode of action to repel birds. Work great for a couple of days till they got used to it then it was worthless. Luckily it had a 30 day money back guarantee, I sent it back. Think the deer repeller has a similar warranty; maybe you should go for it and tell us how it works. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jerry (skip) Sietsema III Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 5:40 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] electronic deer shield pro deer control Does anyone have any opinions on these units? Do they work and are they annoying to neighbors?skip sietsema ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Hedging tall spindle trees
I made my own hedger/topper by mounting a $250 used M-F sickle bar mower on a front end loader. Powered it with a hydraulic motor. Mower hydraulically pivoted from below horizontal to 90°. Could hedge and top up to 12 feet. Worked excellent as long as the tractor could fit down the driverow! Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of maurice tougas Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:38 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Hedging tall spindle trees Nick, Yes, we've done some hedging as a trial. People are hedging at differing times, in NY hedging is done by a couple of growers in August when branches turn or drop under the weight of growing fruit. We're trying several approaches as described a year ago or so here on Apple crop and in French publication Le Mur Fruitier. You can do a site search of apple crop from the Virtual Orchard website to find the discussion a year ago. Best of luck, Mo Tougas 2012/2/22 Nick Lucking n...@cannonvalleyorchard.commailto:n...@cannonvalleyorchard.com Here's the link to the video that Mo Tougas took. Thanks Mo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SNxztQr-80feature=related Nick Lucking Cannon Valley Orchard ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -- Maurice Tougas Tougas Family Farm Northborough,MA 01532 508-450-0844 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] agricultural drones
Drone helicopters sure would come in handy for cherry growers out west who use them to dry fruit to prevent rain cracking. Often there aren't enough copters to go around for what must be a boring job for pilots. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana 406-961-3025 Cell- 406-529-2409 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 1:36 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] agricultural drones Hello Dave! Good one! Now, if the use of sprinklers for pesticide application is a Pipe Dream, is this one like building castles in the air ? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] roots eaten by gopher, any way to salvage?
Rye, You're going to have to lose all that growth. The tree may have enough roots to survive but definitely not enough to support six feet of growth. Cutting the tree all the way back to about knee high may let it survive but you'd probably be better off to just start over with a new tree. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Rye Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:37 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] roots eaten by gopher, any way to salvage? A gopher ate every last finger of root. All that's left is wood below the graft union. Any chance to get roots to regenerate? It was recent and the tree wood is still wet inside. I planted the bareroot last spring, headed it to 18 and it grew to 6ft. Shame to loose all that growth. Thanks, Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketter So. Cal. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer
Mark, When the time comes to control weeds I use the pre-emergent soybean herbicide Valor at the non-crop area rate every three years. Works excellent for me but I'm in an arid climate although sprinklers do hit the fence during the growing season. Valor should be easy to come by for you in Kansas. Other than Valor just a backpack spot spray of Roundup once a year keeps it clean. I've had a tool similar to the ClampTite since the '60s called a BandTite. Same idea except it uses a band similar to a hose clamp rather than wire. Have a great new year, Bill Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Angermayer Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 8:46 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer Dave, thanks so much the feedback. It gives a more complete picture. The university folks on this forum really provide thoughtful responses. You guys don't get near the credit you deserve. The overall consensus seems to favor an 8' woven wire fence. Per all the advice on this forum, I think I may go with an 8' fence on the new section. However, I'm still going to try electric fence. With the fence that's already there, it's relatively little expense to add height to it and electrify it. I don't think I have quite as much deer pressure as a lot of folks have mentioned here. The adjacent field is leased for deer hunting and hunters blast away during deer season. There is also an orchard 3 miles away which doesn't have any deer fence whatever. For me, the advantage of an electric fence is I think I can keep the costs significantly less than would be expected vs. a full fledged woven wire fence. Because most of the fence would simply require extending the height, most of the cost is extending the T-posts, the charger, and the wire/string. I already have a bunch of wooden posts I bought cheap a couple years ago for the new fence. There isn't a problem with trees overhanging the property. The area I'm fencing is bordered on two sides by county roads and one one side by a neighbor who keeps the fence row fairly clean. The side with the new fence has no trees. Spraying fence rows is something to consider. I figure I'll probably have to spray 3X/season on the new fencing, and once/season on the existing fence, since the weeds have to grow taller than the woven wire (4'+) to reach the electric fence on top of the existing fence. I'm thinking I won't have as much erosion problems you mentioned, due to less overall spraying and flatter ground. All in all, if I had to build all the fence from scratch I'd probably go with an 8' woven wire, but since I've already got two thirds of the fence in place, I'm going to try to go the cheaper route. Bill, Thanks for the idea on the pvc. I will check into it, and I hear you on the zip ties. Based upon all the feedback, I may try to extend the T-posts more than couple feet. If I could extend them 3', that would give me 7 to 71/2' height on the existing fence. That said, I'm not sure I could trust zip ties for that much extension. I had planned to go with clamp tite wire clamps which may better handle a 3' extension. As an FYI, I've had very good success with the clamp tite tool. In my opinion no farmer should be without one. Once you buy the tool, the clamps are very inexpensive and last forever. So far, I've used their SS wire (which is more expensive) but I think thin galvanized electric fence wire would work just as well, and would make the clamps essentially free. http://www.clamptitetools.com/ Thanks for all your advice, you've been a big help, helping me think this through. Many thanks to all who have posted their experience with deer fencing. May you all enjoy your family/loved ones this time of year. Mark - Original Message - From: Dave Rosenbergermailto:da...@cornell.edu To: Mark Angermayermailto:hangerma...@isp.com Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer Hi, Mark -- The advantage of putting in the new section of fence at 8 ft is that you won't have to redo that section when you switch the rest of the fence to 8 ft :). As Mike Fargione indicated earlier, many growers in the Hudson Valley of New York started out with either slanted or vertical electrified deer fences 30 years ago. However, as our white-tail deer pressures increased, virtually everyone has switched to 8-ft woven wire. At our research station, we did this gradually because we could not afford to do it all at once. We put in the first 8-ft woven wire back around 1994 and then gradually replaced additional sections of the old slanted 7-wire electrical fence (originally installed about 1981) as
Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer
It all depends on the weeds you're dealing with but I've found Chateau pre-emergent to work very well for most annuals with just one application in the spring. Use glyphosate for perennials Chateau is even safe and registered for first year trees. It seems like I may have read recently that Valor was being registered for fruit trees. It would certainly work well if so, just don't use it at same rate as under the fence!!! Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Angermayer Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer Thanks Bill, Something with some residual would be helpful vs. just Roundup. Perhaps Valor with a little spot spray of glyphosate would take care of the weeds for a season here. Do you have a recommendation for a one spray season long herbicide under fruit trees? The standard protocol for peaches here is glyphos early, then gramoxone later in the season when there is a danger of translocating glyphos to the tree roots. Mark - Original Message - From: Fleming, Williammailto:w...@montana.edu To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer Mark, When the time comes to control weeds I use the pre-emergent soybean herbicide Valor at the non-crop area rate every three years. Works excellent for me but I'm in an arid climate although sprinklers do hit the fence during the growing season. Valor should be easy to come by for you in Kansas. Other than Valor just a backpack spot spray of Roundup once a year keeps it clean. I've had a tool similar to the ClampTite since the '60s called a BandTite. Same idea except it uses a band similar to a hose clamp rather than wire. Have a great new year, Bill Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Angermayer Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 8:46 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer Dave, thanks so much the feedback. It gives a more complete picture. The university folks on this forum really provide thoughtful responses. You guys don't get near the credit you deserve. The overall consensus seems to favor an 8' woven wire fence. Per all the advice on this forum, I think I may go with an 8' fence on the new section. However, I'm still going to try electric fence. With the fence that's already there, it's relatively little expense to add height to it and electrify it. I don't think I have quite as much deer pressure as a lot of folks have mentioned here. The adjacent field is leased for deer hunting and hunters blast away during deer season. There is also an orchard 3 miles away which doesn't have any deer fence whatever. For me, the advantage of an electric fence is I think I can keep the costs significantly less than would be expected vs. a full fledged woven wire fence. Because most of the fence would simply require extending the height, most of the cost is extending the T-posts, the charger, and the wire/string. I already have a bunch of wooden posts I bought cheap a couple years ago for the new fence. There isn't a problem with trees overhanging the property. The area I'm fencing is bordered on two sides by county roads and one one side by a neighbor who keeps the fence row fairly clean. The side with the new fence has no trees. Spraying fence rows is something to consider. I figure I'll probably have to spray 3X/season on the new fencing, and once/season on the existing fence, since the weeds have to grow taller than the woven wire (4'+) to reach the electric fence on top of the existing fence. I'm thinking I won't have as much erosion problems you mentioned, due to less overall spraying and flatter ground. All in all, if I had to build all the fence from scratch I'd probably go with an 8' woven wire, but since I've already got two thirds of the fence in place, I'm going to try to go the cheaper route. Bill, Thanks for the idea on the pvc. I will check into it, and I hear you on the zip ties. Based upon all the feedback, I may try to extend the T-posts more than couple feet. If I could extend them 3', that would give me 7 to 71/2' height on the existing fence. That said, I'm not sure I could trust zip ties for that much extension. I had planned to go with clamp tite wire clamps which may better handle a 3' extension. As an FYI, I've had very good success with the clamp tite tool. In my opinion no farmer
[apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer
I use high tensile wire, the same type used for trellises. Eight wires 10-12 apart, 50' between 4 diameter posts with very well anchored corners. Works excellent, the deer have no problem seeing the wire and it only takes getting shocked once to teach them a lifetime lesson. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, Montana -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Angermayer Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:43 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer I'd like to put up some electric fence to discourage deer and have some questions on the type of wire. My understanding is the poor visibility of standard electric fence wire is not optimum for deer. Electric fence tape is more visible but catches a good bit of wind, and we get a lot of that here. I've spoken with a wildlife expert and he indicated electric rope is now being recommended for deer. However, there are a ton of options for electric rope. I'd like something that has minimal sag and a long life. Something like this 1/8 rope would seem to fit the bill http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=26db629c-952b-40e8-88be-7f2269d659e6 but I don't know if it would have high enough visibility for deer. They make a 1/4 rope that would be more visible. Anyone using any of these electric rope products? Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits Bucyrus KS ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer
Mark, 12.5 gauge is what we used. 4400 foot rolls were about $100 last winter. I use what's called a Daisy tensioner to pull the wire tight; simple, easy and cheaper than other tensioners. No noticeable sag in 50 feet. Every other wire is hot and insulated from the post with a short section of hose held in place with a barbed fencing staple. The alternating ground wires are just stapled with no insulator. Porcelain insulators are used at the corners. Corner posts are three feet deep in concrete with 45° angle braces. All materials including an $600 fence charger were a little over $3000 to do 30 acres. Don't skimp on the charger, keeping wild animals out is a lot different than keeping domestic ones in. As said deer can go though the fence but only will try it once which can make it a problem getting them out. Nothing a good dog or ATV can't deal with though. For that reason the wire and staples are on the inside of the fence so they don't get pulled out by fleeing deer. I also cruise the fence right after fawning season with a jar of peanut butter smearing a glob on the chest height hot wire inbetween each post. The new ones are very attracted to the peanut butter but one lick will be the last time they mess with the fence. I've been very satisfied with the results. Since we are performing Ag research deer damage can't be tolerated. Before installing the perimeter fence we were electric fencing just the research plot areas, what a pain having several different string type fences. We had to block off a main mule deer migration route and it's worked excellent though I sort of feel sorry for the neighbors who had the traffic redirected towards their properties. They haven't really complained per se but they have definitely noticed. Before the fence I could count herds of over 100 at a time on the research station grounds. Now I'm lucky to have a handful all year that mostly come in though our main gate which must remain open all day. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Angermayer Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:04 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer Bill, I like the idea of 50' wooden post spacing. Do you know what gauge the wire is? 12.5 ga is most common for electric fence but that seems a little small - little bigger than 1/16. Mike, I agree a regular 8' deer fence would be best. As you alluded, the expense is the big disadvantage. While I'm only fencing 10 acres, the fence you describe (although bullet-proof) would be more than I want to spend right now. Mark Angermayer - Original Message - From: Mike J Fargionemailto:mj...@cornell.edu To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer We have had some success with electric fencing in NY but there are conditions where it does not work and we strongly advise growers to put up 8' tall high-tensile, woven wire (non-electric) deer fence if they can afford it. I have seen electric fences fail (frequently) due to poor design ( deer squeeze under or through the wires if gaps are more than 8-10 apart), and during periods with deep snow cover or when soils are very dry. In these latter cases, there is inadequate electron flow to give the deer a good shock (i.e. poor grounding). You can switch to alternating hot and ground wires on the fence, but the deer has to then touch 2 adjacent wires to get shocked, and if a deer's head is already through the fence they will keep going - no backing out! Slant electric designs or vertical electric fences with outrigger wires are have worked more effectively than horizontal designs but require more space and make weed control (necessary to keep voltage up) more complicated. Well-designed electric fences are probably adequate where deer pressure is low to moderate. If you have high pressure, build a tall woven non-electric fence and sleep better at night! Mike Michael J. Fargione Extension Educator, Cornell Cooperative Extension of Ulster County Hudson Valley Regional Fruit Program Hudson Valley Lab, 3357 Route 9W, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528-0727 telephone: 845-691-7117, cell: 845-399-2028, fax: 845-691-2719, email: mj...@cornell.edumailto:mj...@cornell.edu visit us at http://hudsonvf.cce.cornell.eduhttp://hudsonvf.cce.cornell.edu/ From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Fleming, William Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:05 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer I use high tensile wire, the same type used for trellises. Eight wires 10-12 apart, 50' between
Re: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer
electric designs or vertical electric fences with outrigger wires are have worked more effectively than horizontal designs but require more space and make weed control (necessary to keep voltage up) more complicated. Well-designed electric fences are probably adequate where deer pressure is low to moderate. If you have high pressure, build a tall woven non-electric fence and sleep better at night! Mike Michael J. Fargione Extension Educator, Cornell Cooperative Extension of Ulster County Hudson Valley Regional Fruit Program Hudson Valley Lab, 3357 Route 9W, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528-0727 telephone: 845-691-7117, cell: 845-399-2028, fax: 845-691-2719, email: mj...@cornell.edumailto:mj...@cornell.edu visit us at http://hudsonvf.cce.cornell.eduhttp://hudsonvf.cce.cornell.edu/ From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Fleming, William Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:05 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer I use high tensile wire, the same type used for trellises. Eight wires 10-12 apart, 50' between 4 diameter posts with very well anchored corners. Works excellent, the deer have no problem seeing the wire and it only takes getting shocked once to teach them a lifetime lesson. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, Montana -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Angermayer Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:43 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Best electric fencing materials - Deer I'd like to put up some electric fence to discourage deer and have some questions on the type of wire. My understanding is the poor visibility of standard electric fence wire is not optimum for deer. Electric fence tape is more visible but catches a good bit of wind, and we get a lot of that here. I've spoken with a wildlife expert and he indicated electric rope is now being recommended for deer. However, there are a ton of options for electric rope. I'd like something that has minimal sag and a long life. Something like this 1/8 rope would seem to fit the bill http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=26db629c-952b-40e8-88be-7f2269d659e6 but I don't know if it would have high enough visibility for deer. They make a 1/4 rope that would be more visible. Anyone using any of these electric rope products? Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits Bucyrus KS ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Best time to start apple pruning after harvest
I always start pruning after leafs fall mainly because the branches fall to the ground more easily. No leafs allow a more accurate cut and avoid cutting trellis wires also. Have always started pruning as early as possible to utilize a year round workforce. I always heard but have never seen any documentation that it's not a good idea to make big cuts close to a central leader if sub zero F weather is anticipated. Have always saved the youngest trees for last when the coldest part of winter has passed. It seems like anymore pruning has become almost a year round activity. Some years we haven't finished winter pruning until long after bloom without any apparent ill effects but the workers hate it. They call it cutting bees. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jose Manuel Pereira Cardoso Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 4:56 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] Best time to start apple prunning after harvest Hi don't know the best time to start prunning appIe trees, and if is cientific consistent that i suggest that pruning the apple tree should be always start when the is 100% dormant, because if not dormant the plant is mobilizing the reservesI don´t know if is any inconvenient to carry out pruning just afterthe leaves fall because it coincides with the maximum translocation of reserves (given the scarcity of labor, which has many hectares has already started to prune pruning). In the latter case when you start pruning early on the one hand we are to reduce the reserves in buds and in some ways to help the plant to respond with vegetative buds and increase alternance, and we are exposing the plant to external agents that can cause fungal infections and by bacteria. When you start pruning early apple wood still not well hard it needstimely, and then gain more strength. As for which variety to get there. Can still be considered that the parcels located in areas of higher risk andlower the occurrence of frost can be made as close to the bud ...This year in September and October were too hot, and this heatkept the vegetation greener longer, sometimes causing a delay inentry into dormancy of apple trees that can be advanced with the application of copper, to force the plant to go dormant.Greetings -- JMP CARDOSO SOMA MAÇÃS MAIShttp://www.somafrutas.com/intro/intro.html ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Field day in Québec on July 14th.
Rye, The way our irrigation system is set up is with 3/4 poly hose attached to the wire at 5'. A micro sprinkler that's designed to work upside down hangs from a 1/4 poly line so the sprinkler is about 16-20 inches off the ground. There is a sprinkler between every other tree. If needed for frost protection or pesticide injection there is a wire hook at the sprinkler that is used to hang the sprinkler from the top wire to produce an overhead system. Works excellent and avoids investing in two systems. Another advantage is no underground or tree row lines to get hit by cultivation or mowing. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Rye Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:35 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Field day in Québec on July 14th. Hi Vincent, Thank you for your post on your sprinkler system and for offering to preview your system via email. I am quite interested but unfortunately would not be able to justify a trip to Quebec. I have a small new orchard with trees in first and second leaf. I am able to cover the whole thing with two fillings of a backpack sprayer. But, dreading the years to come with full canopy and don't see myself justifying a tractor and sprayer any more than a trip to Quebec. So a fixed sprinkler delivery system seems like the answer to a prayer for all sorts of reasons: affordability (compared to a tractor/sprayer), automation (set it and forget it, much much less effort), timing (night time when the wind is down without lights and without loss of sleep). I have already been considering installing an overhead system for frost insurance. Questions: 1) how do you mix and deliver? Do you use a large pressurized tank containing the fully diluted solution? Or do you draw concentrate from a tank by venturi/siphon (sorry I don't know what you call it, similar in concept to garden sprayers that you attach to the garden hose but on a larger scale)? Or similar to liquid fertilizer system that mix into the irrigation? Gravity? 2) how much of your system is developed from readily available parts and how much specialized items? 3) I envisioned micro sprinklers for the frost protection, would that work for pesticides without clogging issues? Or do you use rainbird type? 4) On a 5 wire trellis (1st wire 18 inches from the ground and the remaining wires separated by 22 inches) would you recommend installing the system on all wiresl? Or maybe just the top 4 wires? Again, Thank you Vincent, for replacing a dread with hope. Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. --- Vincent Philion Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:04:08 -0700 Hello fellow Apple-Crop enthusiasts, No, we don't have Bastille day up here, but we are hosting a field day on July 14th. Many things on display, including our new fixed sprinkler system for pesticide applications. I understand the language barrier might be a problem, but I'm sure many bilingual growers will be present and happy to translate things in an informal way. All the details can be found at: http://www.agrireseau.qc.ca/references/8/Gerald/InvitatioPO2011vergerIRDA.pdf Don't hesitate to forward this to your colleagues. The event is free of charge and includes lunch. However, you must confirm your presence ahead of time to get free food! Hope to see some of you, à bientôt! Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Phytopathologiste Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Is it necessarily Powdery Mildew?
Besides the powder PM also gives a sort of reddish cast to the leaves. You might want to consider alternating at least three different fungicides with different modes of action into your program. PM will develop resistance to just one form of control in one year. I'm fairly certain just using a couple more modes of action will clean it up fast. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Rye Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:51 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Is it necessarily Powdery Mildew? Hi again folks, Sorry for all the separate email, just thought it would help to keep topics organized. I have been spraying weekly with Serenade ASO for Powdery Mildew. On all trees including those planted last year (second leaf?) and this years planting (first leaf?) I see white fuzz on new shoots and the twigs of leaves. The fuzz seems thicker on the second leaf trees than on the first leaf trees. All leaves themselves are coming in pristine and older wood is clean. The white fuzz does rub off if I rub briskly. I call it fuzz because it seems to be slender and erect on a barely visible scale. As opposed to the pastiness I saw in the Powdery Mildew on the dormant shoots in late winter. I need to continue spraying either way since new leaves are still popping, but I'm curious: Is that white fuzz still Powdery Mildew? Or is that something that naturally appears on young shoots? I'm tending to think PM, but not 100% sure. Thanks, Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] definitions question: first, second, third cover
I agree with Peter that it's an old term but always took it to mean codling moth sprays, which back in the old days were hard insecticides that killed everything. In Washington most years three were needed, occasionally four. The term covered is also used to numerate the number of days your cover spray application was good for. Could be that one term was the origin of the other. Doesn't seem like the term should apply much anymore since some of the newer insecticides need to be applied weekly. Some growers would be applying eight to ten cover sprays nowdays. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Peter J. Jentsch Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 2:14 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] definitions question: first, second, third cover Greetings Rye, I believe this term is a carry over from a time when pest management applications would 'cover' the commodity in a blanket of spray following the critical petal fall application. This PF event typically occurs at roughly 80% of the petals falling from a variety such as Mcintosh in apple. At this point in time the flowers loose their attractiveness to bees allowing for insecticide pest management to occur. In New York's Hudson Valley, this application of insecticide will control European apple sawfly, plum curculio, the overwintering stage of obliquebanded leafroller, tarnish plant bug, rosy apple aphid, and others, depending on the insecticide used. Typically insecticide applications follow a 10 to 14 day interval called cover sprays or covers for short, depending of course on insecticide longevity and the weather (OP's longer, Bt's shorter). The residual of the previous application carrying over for this interval based on its residual to withstand weathering or hydrolysis, its U.V. stability and so on. These applications then target the same insect (PC for the 1st and possibly 2nd cover), or a different insect species or complex of insects (such as codling moth at 2nd, SJS at 3rd cover; summer generation of OBLR at 4th cover; apple maggot SJS at 5th -7th cover) at different periods relative to their timing after petal fall. All of which depends on pest management strategies, weather, population density to name but a few of the variables that increase or decreasing the timing interval. Regards, Peter Hello all, I'm looking over pesticide information and I see a lot of references to first cover, second cover and third cover and also references to first cover spray, second cover spray and third cover spray. All references seem to expect the reader to know what that is. Searching the web I found one reference that said second cover is 4-6 weeks after petal fall. Another reference seemed to refer to the number of wet days to get to second cover and that didn't make any sense to me at all. I guess I'm really unclear on what cover means in this context. What does the term refer to? What is being covered at these stages and/or what is doing the covering? Or what observation do you make and say ah! we are reached second cover today! (same question for first and third.) Also, what is the relationship between second cover and second cover spray? (same question for first and third) I think I would understand once I understand what second cover is, but my general confusion on the topic leaves me with little confidence in that. I have found references for definitions of some stages such as green tip, pre-pink, pink. But these cover stages elude me. Thanks for sharing your expertise! Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. Content-Type: text/plain; name=ATT1..c Content-Description: ATT1..c Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ATT1..c; size=224; creation-date=Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:25:19 GMT; modification-date=Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:25:19 GMT Attachment converted: MacIntosh HD:ATT1. 84.c (TEXT/ttxt) (0692E256) -- Peter J. Jentsch Senior Extension Associate Department of Entomology Cornell University's Hudson Valley Lab 3357 Rt. 9W; PO box 727 Highland, NY 12528 email: p...@cornell.edu Phone 845-691-7151 Mobile: 845-417-7465 http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hudson/faculty.php http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/faculty/jentsch/ ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Two trees with bud union under dirt
My experience is the burl (ball) is the rootstock. I wouldn't worry about it rooting. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Rye Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:48 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Two trees with bud union under dirt I don't have a whole lot of choice, I promised my wife I would only use the space while she wasn't using it. She's going to replant soon since it is Spring. Also, the trees already started out poking out of the cage a bit, a year's growth will exceed the size of the cage. When I moved those trees originally, I considered them lost. So if any survive the move back to the orchard, that's a gain. I have some vitamin-B hopefully that will reduce the shock. So since the ball has roots on the underside, can I still consider them size controlled by the rootstock? Everything I have read says don't let the scion root. Reason: you'll lose the size controlling nature of the rootstock the scion has not rooted. Also read, after settling, mound the dirt up to just under the ball i.e. keep the ball out of the dirt. But no reason why is given that I have found, could be merely a buffer zone between the dirt and scion. What is the reason to keep the ball out of the dirt? What is the implication of roots coming from the ball (underside)? Can I just clip them like any rootsucker? If I've lost the size controlling nature of the rootstock I don't want those two trees on the trellis. If I still have the size controlling nature of the rootstock, I don't want to plant them on their own and have to stake them, I would rather train them back on the trellis. Thanks for your reading. Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. Re: [apple-crop] Two trees with bud union under dirt Tommy and Sandy Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:35:23 -0700 Dear sir, It has been my bad experience to move any trees that already have leaves extended. They need to be dormant to move them without much shock. Tommy Bruguiere Dickie Bros. Orchard - Original Message - From: Rye To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:38 PM Subject: [apple-crop] Two trees with bud union under dirt I have two trees (planted last year) where the bud union was under dirt. The underside of the ball has roots, the scion itself does not. Are there any implications? I had moved some trees into my wife's caged raised bed garden last fall because they were dying due to gophers eating too much root. I didn't pay enough attention to them over the winter and two settled low where the ball and some scion were buried. Most of the trees, including those two, recovered and are starting to sprout healthy leaves. I am soon going to transplant them back into the orchard. With roots on the underside of the ball are there any concerns about losing the size controlling nature of the rootstock? Again, the scions did not root. The answer to that question will dictate whether I put those two back on the trellis or free standing in the periphery. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Manually dropping fruit from young trees
A lime-sulfur/fish oil spray just after full bloom is a common organic alternative to hand thinning that works well. It works well enough that many conventional growers use it also. I suppose if a person wanted to burn all flowers off a tree they would need two of these caustic sprays just before and after full bloom. There used to be an excellent conventional flower thinner that lost registration many years ago, think it was called Eligtal. I haven't kept up with any replacements for it. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Bill Shoemaker Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 6:31 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Manually dropping fruit from young trees Rye Its common for many commercial growers to do just that. Rather than hand thinning though, they use chemical thinners, such as NAA and Sevin. Depending on weather conditions, rates and bloom load, it will take out a percentage of the flowers. Bill Original message Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 20:29:54 -0500 (EST) From: Rye ducn...@aol.com Subject: [apple-crop] Manually dropping fruit from young trees To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Why is it customary to allow fruit to form and then drop it when it is small, rather than removing flowers so the tree doesn't waste energy forming any fruit at all? Curious if tree growth can be increased without harmful effects by removing flowers before they form fruit. Thanks, Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop William H Shoemaker, UI-Crop Sciences Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Powdery Mildew already: Spray timing question
Rye, it sounds like you might want to download and save this excellent resource http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/eb0419/eb0419.pdf Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Rye Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 9:01 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Powdery Mildew already: Spray timing question Hi folks, On the apple trees I planted last year, I noticed the tell-tale white coating mostly on last season's newer shoots. So I looked it up and low and behold they have powdery mildew. The coating is not as thick as the worst picture I saw on the web, but the coverage area is a lot, i.e. it is worse than just splotchy. Of course I aim to eradicate the problem on those trees but also don't want it to spread to this years planting. Yesterday I pruned off and discarded as much of the infected wood as I could. I plan to hunt down some Serenade today. The trees don't have any leaves yet and the recent planting only has leaf clusters on the variety that woke up in the nursery. I'm anxious to start spraying as soon as possible, so my question is: Is it good to start spraying now when all there is to spray at this point is wood? Thanks, Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Powdery Mildew already: Spray timing question
Try page 38 or Sec 1:32 Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Rye Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 9:32 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Powdery Mildew already: Spray timing question Hi Bill, thanks for that .pdf, it does look like a good resource on a lot of topics. Researching on the web I noticed that Powdery Mildew is species specific, i.e. powdery mildew from on an apple tree is not the same powdery mildew on squash, nor is the treatment. That .pdf talks about powdery mildew treatments for cherries, peaches, apricots but I didn't see a discussion on treatment for apple (other than apple toxicity comments for chemicals used for the other fruits). I guess I need help interpreting what to use on apple. Thanks, Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:13 am Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Powdery Mildew already: Spray timing question Rye, it sounds like you might want to download and save this excellent resource http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/eb0419/eb0419.pdf Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net?] On Behalf Of Rye Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 9:01 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Powdery Mildew already: Spray timing question Hi folks, On the apple trees I planted last year, I noticed the tell-tale white coating mostly on last season's newer shoots. So I looked it up and low and behold they have powdery mildew. The coating is not as thick as the worst picture I saw on the web, but the coverage area is a lot, i.e. it is worse than just splotchy. Of course I aim to eradicate the problem on those trees but also don't want it to spread to this years planting. Yesterday I pruned off and discarded as much of the infected wood as I could. I plan to hunt down some Serenade today. The trees don't have any leaves yet and the recent planting only has leaf clusters on the variety that woke up in the nursery. I'm anxious to start spraying as soon as possible, so my question is: Is it good to start spraying now when all there is to spray at this point is wood? Thanks, Rye Hefley Future Farmers Marketer So. Cal. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples- not propaganda
Seems like nowadays half the job of farming is political be it water, pesticides, zoning, etc. In order to retain our agricultural way of life we have to band together politically and lobby for what will keep us in business. Unfortunate but unavoidable. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David Doud Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 4:26 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples- not propaganda I want info about apples, then contribute something - for the record, I'm fine with the discussion going on - happy to see activity - D grower-indiana On Mar 14, 2011, at 5:10 PM, Dennis Brackman wrote: I want info about apples, not political chatter - please remove me from your e-mail list. tgith ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
I had problems with just one 8' high wire. Trees bowed too much under fruit load. Trees midway between trellis posts pulled the wire down causing the entire row to be pulled down and bowed. Bamboo was ¾ diameter. One wire added later at 5 alleviated the problem. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Randy Steffens Jr Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:43 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing For those who have high-density orchards, do you find trellising with one wire at about 9 feet provides sufficient support, if a bamboo stake or the like is placed at each tree? Randy Steffens Jr Shepherd's Valley Orchards Middle Tennessee On Feb 28, 2011, at 6:55 AM, Con.Traas wrote: I agree with Terence and Dave, Their experience and concerns have been borne out here in Ireland over the past number of years, where it has been survival of the more dense (orchards rather than orchardists). Obviously there are limits, but in our own case, for our single line orchards we have opted for 4 ft. x 11ft., and we have found this a good spacing for the more vigorous Elstar variety (more vigorous than Golden Delicious or Jonagold at least). We do not grow the trees as high as at lower latitudes (more mutual shading from taller trees when you come this far North), and have found that a limit of about 5 ½ to 6 feet height of cropping wall works well. In practice, this wall commences about 2 feet above the ground, and finishes at 7.5 feet, facilitating all harvesting and pruning from ground level. Con Traas ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
Yes, sorry. Monday morning you know Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of William H Shoemaker Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 8:49 AM To: 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing Bill, did you mean 5'? Bill William H. Shoemaker Sr. Research Specialist, Food Crops University of Illinois - Crop Sciences St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road, St Charles, IL, 60174 630-584-7254, FAX-584-4610 wshoe...@illinois.edumailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu I had problems with just one 8' high wire. Trees bowed too much under fruit load. Trees midway between trellis posts pulled the wire down causing the entire row to be pulled down and bowed. Bamboo was ¾ diameter. One wire added later at 5 alleviated the problem. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Training goal as it relates to initial planting
With a 6' by 12 to 14 spacing I think you'd have less labor input just going with a simple central leader tree. You can manipulate the central leader to keep it weak by bending to keep the tree height down. Single stake for each tree, no trellis. The training system you show in the picture looks like something a researcher would do, too much work for too little return. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:16 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Training goal as it relates to initial planting Personally I would take my money and do something else with it rather than start an orchard. Being in the farming business is an honorable profession, but there are easiler ways to lose money. Tommy Bruguiere Dickie Bros. Orchard - Original Message - From: Ed Facklermailto:ed.fack...@gmail.com To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Training goal as it relates to initial planting Rye: If you have good soil and live in S. Calif, those trees will get bigger than 7-9' and (likely) occupy more space than 6' between trees. And while you seem determined to use a wire trellis, you should know that wires are a pain. Or as the trees grow and fill in their space limbs/foliage will make pruning difficult. Reason. Invariably you'll get your pruners into the wire and ruin both pruners and possibly the wire. Further every time you want to get on the other side of this trellis you'll need to walk around the end of the row. And on a hot (100 degree plus) day, this sort of stuff is unwanted. I'd suggest you use a single post for each tree and simply anchor (tie) each tree to the post. Ed..former grower, now too old to think about trellis...S. Ind... 2011/2/19 ducn...@aol.commailto:ducn...@aol.com Hello, newbie here. I am planting a small high density orchard. I have bareroots on order on m9 nic-29. Due to arrive in the next week or three. I'm planting with 6 foot in-row spacing and looking to maintain a tree height of about 7-9 feet on 4 (or 5 if they look like they want to grow to 9 feet) wire trellises for a hedgegrow with the main branches latticed similar to this photo: http://resources.cas.psu.edu/TFPG/apple_trellis/images/slide33.gif Two ways I can think to accomplish this: 1) after planting, cut the scion to about 22 inches (from ground level) and train two leaders to grow 45 degrees North and South respectively. 2) initially plant trees at a 45 degree angle, leaning to the North, training a low shoot to grow 45 degrees to the South. I lean towards option 1) but being a newbie I'm hesitant to cut them so short. However, that's what it looks like was done in the photo. Can a newly planted bareroot handle being cut to 22 inches? Also they will be in grow tubes to protect from the critters. Just wanted to mention that if it matters that only about 3 inches of wood will get a full day's sun initially. Thank you so much for your consideration. Rye Hefley Future Farmer's Market Vendor Private orchard in So. Cal. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [Apple-crop] low temp pruning
Tom, all that I've ever heard is that you must let the trees reach full dormancy before pruning especially if making big flush to the trunk cuts. First week of December is almost always a safe time to start. I know some growers will tell their pruning crews that damage occurs if they prune when the temp is below a certain point but I think that's just an excuse to keep them from working when it's too cold and their productivity is impaired. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of KD LINNEY Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 12:35 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [Apple-crop] low temp pruning Is there research or even anecdotal evidence that suggests a fairly definite low temperature at which to cease pruning apple or other fruit trees in consideration of impaired wound healing or any other potential tissue damage? I'm thinking of mid-winter when trees are still quite dormant, but also during cold snaps later in the season. Thanks. Tom Moss Rollins, Montana ___ Apple-crop mailing list Apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit Penetrometer
They aren't cheap. Best price I found was $150 here http://www.amazon.com/General-Purpose-Firmness-Penetrometer-Sclerometer/dp/B003H3VNQC Just as accurate as the electronic one in the lab. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of BMH Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 3:11 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: Fruit Penetrometer Can anyone recommend a supply source for a simple fruit penetrometer for pears and apples, primarily for field use? -Brad Brad M. Hollabaugh General Manager Hollabaugh Bros., Inc. Biglerville, PA -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too!
From what I've read fresh water will be the limiting population factor long before energy. I hate to see people dying off but perhaps a world population fewer than 2 billion or even one billion would be much better for the planet and humans alike. In fact I think we all know deep down it would be. It would be great if population reduction could take place in a voluntary lower birth rate manner but I'm not holding my breath especially when the capitalist system seems to depend on a constantly growing population. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Randy Beaudry Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:35 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! Another relatively sobering book on that topic is called the Long Emergency by J.H. Knustler, which details our dependence upon fossil fuels and the state of emergency that will (may?) ensue following the eventual consumption of world oil supplies past the point of peak oil. A couple factoids from that book remain with me, including the high number of fuel calories needed to put a calorie of food (grain, fruit, vegetable, meat) in our bellies. I can only assume that if/when shortages become real, the relative proportion of available oil resources will need to be redirected toward food - and that the efficiency of farming and marketing systems on a per calorie in versus a calorie out will need to be optimized. It occurs to me that this is an area where farmers and industry will likely lead the way as they will be on the front lines of change. The book Sustainable Energy (Without all the Hot Air) by physicist David McKay helps frame the eventual decline in oil availability by explicitly describing what our long term options are for alternative energy (using the UK as a model) based on current science. That's a pretty grim book as well in some regards, but both authors depict a sea change in human activity in the near future. Randy Beaudry On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:49 AM, robert wrote: A couple of years ago, I read a book called The Party's Over which makes the case that we are fast approaching peak oil and that there is no alternative that will ever be as cheap and plentiful. He quoted some expert who said that organic agriculture can only support 2 billion people on earth and that the human race in the last century had experienced the equivilant of an algae bloom with our use of cheap energy from petroleum in heating, transportation and (most importantly) agriculture. It may or may not be true but it seems to me that this is what we have been talking about in the previous discussion. It is food for thought. Robert Justman - Original Message - From: William H Shoemaker wshoe...@illinois..edumailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu To: 'Apple-Crop' apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 6:21 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.netmailto:webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. Randy Beaudry, Professor A22 Plant and Soil Sciences Bldg. Department of Horticulture Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824 (517)355-5191 x1303 beau...@msu.edumailto:beau...@msu.edu
RE: Apple-Crop: Turf in row middles
I've found the best way to be successful in your type of situation is to spray Roundup to the centers to eliminate most rhizome type grasses and perennial broadleaves before you work the ground for replanting. Depending on your soil and the seeder used the ground may not even need to be tilled. I've changed row middle vegetation type with this method in August before but used crested wheatgrass in our arid climate. Worked excellent even though it's recommended wheatgrass be planted in the fall or early spring. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:52 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: Turf in row middles Hello everyone. This year for seeding the new row middles I used a Brillion seeder and a perennial rye/kentucky bluegrass mix I made. Started to come in real nice until the crabgrass came up on Memorial day and choked everything out. My question is: Does anyone know of a product that I can use to knock out the crab grass where food crops are grown? All the labels I look at for the usual stuff Acclaim, Siduron, Dimension, etc. are only for ornamentals or non food areas. Thanks, Nick Lucking Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Rainfastness of sprays
A repeated spray would probably be much cheaper than the damage caused if your spray was washed off. I personally don't like taking chances like that, especially if it was for CM. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Angermayer Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:34 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: Rainfastness of sprays Apple-Crop: Scaffolds 6/14Today, the forecast was supposed to be clear of rain. I needed to get a spray on peaches. I applied Delegate at the full rate. About 15 minutes afterward, it rained about 1/4. My question - I know a locally systemic material like spinosad is supposed to be very resistant to wash off, but how long does it take for enough of it to be absorbed in the tissues to become rainfast? Was this a wasted spray? Thanks, Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits Bucyrus KS -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: organophosphates
According to what read in the past the majority of pesticides and chemical fertilizers are used by homeowners who more often overuse them without reading the label. Malathion is a popular insecticide available to homeowners at any supermarket or hardware store. I have to wonder if the study even looked at this aspect. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 ( From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Deborah I Breth Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 5:49 AM To: Apple-Crop Cc: Christopher Brian Watkins; Helene R Dillard Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: organophosphates Thank you for addressing this issue. Although apples are not in the report, this report will certainly reinforce the concern that family's feel the need to go organic in general. It will be important for commodity groups to get out there in the media and put this in perspective. The organic production will not meet the needs of the general population at this point. Deborah I. Breth Cornell Cooperative Extension - Lake Ontario Fruit Program Team Leader and IPM Specialist in Tree Fruit and Berries 12690 Rt. 31 Albion, NY 14411 phone: 585.798.4265 x 36 mobile: 585.747.6039 fax: 585.798.5191 email: d...@cornell.edu LOF websitehttp://www.fruit.cornell.edu/lof From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nancy Foster Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 7:31 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: organophosphates Since today's ADHD-Organophosphate story was mentioned on Apple Crop/Virtual Orchard this morning, I wanted to share some information about it. As you may have seen in the news clip below, the new study claims that exposure to certain organophosphate pesticides-specifically found on frozen blueberries, fresh strawberries and celery-appears to boost the chances that children will be diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. To read more about what is being reported in the popular press go to the following link: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37156010/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/#ixzz0oDafw65a. The study is published in the journal Pediatrics. The study has been picked up by over 400 national and local media outlets, including the national morning news shows. For those interested, USApple analyzed the study and found: Apples or apple products are not mentioned in the study's full report or any popular press articles. No data in the study directly links cause and effect, just an association. The study itself says prospective studies are needed to establish whether this association is causal. Research methods used were questionable - one-time urine sample and telephone interview. * A single urinalysis which detected OP metabolites was used to determine correlation with long-term disorder (ADHD). * The study's subjects - children - were determined to have ADHD based on telephone interviews with caregivers, not a doctor's diagnosis or extensive medical check. The researchers did not consider the children's overall diet or other possible sources of exposure to OP's. Information on the use of pesticides in this study does not reflect the significant decline in OP use over the past decade. If exposure to OP pesticides were significant in effecting the diagnosis of ADHD, then there would be a corresponding drop in ADHD diagnosis. Nancy Nancy Foster U.S. Apple Association (703) 442-8850 www.usapple.orghttp://www.usapple.org From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Longstroth Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 9:02 AM To: 'Apple-Crop' Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: organophosphates Yes, I saw it this morning on NBC Today show. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/ It was the lead story at both 7 and 8 AM http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37156010/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/ My thought was that is the end of the OPs *** Mark Longstroth MSUE Fruit Educator http://www.canr.msu.edu/vanburen/disthort.htm From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David Doud Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 7:44 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: organophosphates monday morning reading - it's going to be a long fall talking to people about this Led by Maryse Bouchard in Montreal, researchers based at the University of Montreal and Harvard University examined the potential relationship between ADHD and exposure to certain toxic pesticides called organophosphates http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1989564,00.html?xid=rss-topstoriesutm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+time%2Ftopstories+%28TIME%3A+Top+Stories%29utm_content=Google+Reader David Doud grower - Indiana __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
Apple-Crop: RE: Experience with cold temps post bloom
I don't think your temps were cool enough and especially the duration long enough to cause damage. 28° is the temp for 10% kill post bloom but the duration needs to be about three hours. I wouldn't worry one bit. Growing apples in WA state we considered a frost like yours to be a free thinning of fruit that was likely to drop anyway. More likely it just speeded the natural drop along. Sometimes with pears temps in that range can cause marking but with apples there is little concern. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of John Lyman III Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:06 AM To: 'Apple-Crop' Subject: Apple-Crop: Experience with cold temps post bloom Hi, Had cold temps ranging from 27.5 to 29 in low spots in our orchard this morning. We are a week to 10 days past PF, and fruit size is on ave 8-12 mm. Does anyone have previous experience with cold temps at this stage that they could share? Thoughts on approach to thinning, what fruit damage to expect, etc. I think we were at these temps for just an hour or two. Thanks, John Lyman Lyman Orchards Middlefield, CT -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: degree days and apple bloom prediction
I'm jealous, well sort of. Fully dormant here at 4000 ft Montana. Skiff of snow last night with a low of 24°, high today in the 40s. Forecast is for lows in the teens. Plenty of time left here for pruning... Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelly Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:19 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: degree days and apple bloom prediction Acton, Maine Mar. 31, 2010 McIntosh silver tip Peaches swollen bud Temps in the 70's for Fri and Sat Copper spray on Easter ? This is fun Art Kelly Kelly Orchards On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 9:18 AM, William Sharp bsharp1...@yahoo.commailto:bsharp1...@yahoo.com wrote: I am In the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia and we are about 1/2 green tip (or a little further) on Red Delicious. It is supposed to be quite warm the next couple of days and I am trying to predict when apple bloom may be i.e.. will it be within the next week. Does anyone have info on using DD to predict bloom? We are not yet at bloom on peaches, but I expect it to start tommorrow... Bill Sharp
RE: *Potential Spam* RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis
Wish I could be provide pictures but my drill is 600 miles and a decade away. Better yet I found a similar device that's very economical http://www.bookofjoe.com/2006/04/hose_drill_dig_.html It doesn't have a big tip like mine did but says it will bore an 8 hole. I used a 400 gallon air blast sprayer, fan turned off, pressure set at 80 psi. The hose to the drill needs to be at least ¾, preferably heavy duty enough to drag around rough ground. With a 100' hose I could drill holes 5-6 rows on either side of the sprayer before it needed to be moved. 75-100 holes could be drilled per 400 gallon tank. The way you form a pipe into a point is to first cut a series of touching triangles out of one end. You end up with a jagged edge that looks like a crown. Then just hammer the triangles inward so the edges and points touch, weld together. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 5:29 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: *Potential Spam* RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis Wish I couldsee a photo of this water drill, not clear, how do you cut,bend a 6inch pieceof 4inch pipe, how about a photo, Lee Elliott, winchester,il --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Fleming, William w...@montana.edu wrote: From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 10:09 AM Nick, the way it works when you use a tractor drawn tree planter is the logical place for the trellis poles is in the groove made by the planter. If you attach the wire to the outside of the post with stapes the wire ends up half the post width out of line with the tree row.. That usually ends up being the 3-4 inches you mentioned. Even if you don't use a planter better that the posts are in line with the tree row, wire will then be offset from the row. Other things I've learned: Rather than placing the trellis posts halfway between trees place them close to the tree. Depending on your tree spacing placing the post midway creates a small dead space that's harder to deal with for weed control. This is especially true if you're organic and using mechanical weed control but the post can also create a herbicide spray shadow. With the post close to the tree you end up with one extra small space and another space almost equal to your tree spacing. Using water to set the posts is the best method I've found. I made a tee shaped handle with 3/4 steel pipe, valve on the top of the tee. Since we were using 4-5 posts I attached a 6 inch long piece of 4 pipe at the bottom of the tee. It was cut, bent, and welded to a point with a 1/2 outlet at the bottom for the water to exit. Water at 80 psi from a sprayer is plenty. Volume is more important than pressure. With a two man crew we could set a very solid post in less than 30 seconds. One guy with the water, the other sets the post and plumbs it. You have to work very fast before soil suspended in the water settled, if it takes more than a second before the water drill is pulled out of the hole and the post is set it won't be as deep as you want. The way it worked seemed excellent to me. Rocks and gravel would settle at the bottom of the post hole creating good drainage for the post. The fine silt that settled out of the water rapidly set up almost like concrete. Much faster than an auger, less expense than a tractor mounted pounder. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.nethttp://us.mc354.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=apple-c...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.nethttp://us.mc354.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:49 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.nethttp://us.mc354.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=apple-c...@virtualorchard.net Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis Bill, That's good to know. On that note, when I plant these new trees should they be planted directly inline with the trellis system? Or be 2-3, or more inches off the wire initially? Thanks for the help, my horticulture degree did not quite cover this! Nick Lucking Field Manager Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.nethttp://www.virtualorchard.net/ and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.nethttp://us.mc354.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis
Nick, the way it works when you use a tractor drawn tree planter is the logical place for the trellis poles is in the groove made by the planter. If you attach the wire to the outside of the post with stapes the wire ends up half the post width out of line with the tree row. That usually ends up being the 3-4 inches you mentioned. Even if you don't use a planter better that the posts are in line with the tree row, wire will then be offset from the row. Other things I've learned: Rather than placing the trellis posts halfway between trees place them close to the tree. Depending on your tree spacing placing the post midway creates a small dead space that's harder to deal with for weed control. This is especially true if you're organic and using mechanical weed control but the post can also create a herbicide spray shadow. With the post close to the tree you end up with one extra small space and another space almost equal to your tree spacing. Using water to set the posts is the best method I've found. I made a tee shaped handle with 3/4 steel pipe, valve on the top of the tee. Since we were using 4-5 posts I attached a 6 inch long piece of 4 pipe at the bottom of the tee. It was cut, bent, and welded to a point with a 1/2 outlet at the bottom for the water to exit. Water at 80 psi from a sprayer is plenty. Volume is more important than pressure. With a two man crew we could set a very solid post in less than 30 seconds. One guy with the water, the other sets the post and plumbs it. You have to work very fast before soil suspended in the water settled, if it takes more than a second before the water drill is pulled out of the hole and the post is set it won't be as deep as you want. The way it worked seemed excellent to me. Rocks and gravel would settle at the bottom of the post hole creating good drainage for the post. The fine silt that settled out of the water rapidly set up almost like concrete. Much faster than an auger, less expense than a tractor mounted pounder. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:49 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis Bill, That's good to know. On that note, when I plant these new trees should they be planted directly inline with the trellis system? Or be 2-3, or more inches off the wire initially? Thanks for the help, my horticulture degree did not quite cover this! Nick Lucking Field Manager Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Trimming Roots on Benchgrafts
I can only surmise it's because M-111 tends to sucker badly especially if some of the roots are jaded (pointed upwards). No big deal if planted by hand to correct the root position but if using a three point tree planter at high speed it would be preferable to trim the roots to avoid jading. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Hauser Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:40 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Apple-Crop: Trimming Roots on Benchgrafts At several places I've seen the roots on vigorous benchgraft rootstocks like M111 trimmed back to short (1/2) knubs before planting in commercial orchards. Can someone tell me what is the purpose of this, and does it take longer to establish growth on these trees? Thanks -- Kevin Hauser Kuffel Creek Apple Nursery Riverside, Southern California -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis
After years of trial and error I've found the metal clips are the only device that definitely will stay in place. I have only used the large size. The tree will grow into the clip just as often as it grows into the trellis wire. I only used the clips at the top ten foot wire so wasn't concerned about girdling. Plastic tree tape did well on lower wires till the tree reached the top wire. Even with the trellis wire and clip completely grown into the tree it didn't seem to affect vigor even though it would be welcome high in the tree. Only problem I've encountered is when it comes to tree removal if the tree has grown into the wire, it's not just a simple matter of unclipping the clip. Workers often had to carry wire cutters, loppers and a saw to release the tree. Problem is compounded if you want to reuse the trellis wire or leave it in place for the new trees. Mistakes happen and the trellis wire can accidently get cut or the galvanization scraped off. One way to get away from the problems is to use the metal clip to attach a stake, conduit, etc to the wire then tie the tree to the support. Of course that involves the expense of a stake that can really add up with trees two feet apart. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nick Lucking Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:40 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis Hello everyone, I see that the U clip is a popular item to attach B.9, M.9, etc. trees to a trellis. Are you guys going with the larger version to allow for growth or is the smaller version better for this application? Does anyone have any problems with the metal rubbing bark of the tree? Thanks for the input, Nick Lucking Field Manager Cannon Valley Orchard Cannon Falls, MN -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: FreezePruf?
We have a long term project at our station into season extendeders that includes hoop houses, row covers, mulches, etc. Every company I contact is happy to provide products, not this one. I emailed them and they weren't interested. Makes me think they don't want their product under scientific scrutiny. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Con.Traas Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:21 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: FreezePruf? Hello all, I'm wondering about the differences between these two products. I note that the freezepruf contains ethylene glycol, which is the active constituent in anti-freeze, but could it have an effect at the concentrations that would end up in the plant tissue? What kind of concentration would end up in the plant tissue anyhow, given that a 2% solution of ethylene glycol is what is being sprayed? Does anyone know of these botanists who developed the product? Did they conduct efficacy trials? How did they decide on the appropriate dose rates etc? Has there been any peer-reviewed research? Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan
I truly hope this isn't a common practice in Afghanistan, but it was relayed to me by a fellow who volunteers with a group that plants trees in Afghanistan. I believe it to be true as wild as it sounds. Irrigation canals in Afghanistan have been used much like the trenches of WWI and have been bombed to the point of uselessness for decades. As a result there is a whole generation of Afghanis who don't have a clue about farming. Here's the part that's hard to believe, they thought that honey bees sucked the energy out of fruit tree flowers resulting in small fruit or no fruit. To combat this they staged a full on war to destroy wild bee colonies. Poor crops more likely were caused by a lack of pollination. Convincing them otherwise was a major endeavor but hopefully sunk in. Can't always assume that the things we take for granted as common knowledge to apply elsewhere. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Michael Vaughn Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:32 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan I would agree that agriculture leading to more food to eat locally would help any nation. However our government (State Department) might not be the best vehicle for that effort. The last two years the state dep't has supplied afghan opium farmers with wheat seed and fertilizer for acreage trading in hopes they would expand acreage for crops and reduce Opium production. The reports from the UN and other's show the afghan's did in fact reduce the acreage used for Opium. However the fertilizer was used to improve the reduced Opium fields and increase the overall Opium Production (Volume). The wheat was grown in limited production. So the question is how do you reduce the thousand's of years of traditional Opium Production while promoting food based agriculture? Especially at taxpayer expense! On 1/13/10, Bill Shoemaker wshoe...@illinois.edumailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu wrote: I have a colleague who just returned from Afganistan. He was very happy with his service there. He feels he's contributing to the effort to build a stable society. They may make more money with drug crops but they have neigbors who need to eat. Bill Happy New Year to all, I read an interesting piece on Reuters News yesterday. I see that some more US agricultural advisors will be sent to Afghanistan, though I wonder if it is realistic to suggest to farmers there that nuts and apples will give higher returns than opium. I'm sure that I am preaching to the converted here when I suggest that apple growing is hardly a highly profitable venture. Con Traas http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-45331820100112 KABUL (Reuters) - Interrupted by the occasional whirring of military helicopters overhead, the U.S. agriculture chief sipped pomegranate juice with Afghan farmers, who told him not enough international aid was getting through. Wrapping up a three-day visit to Afghanistan on Tuesday, Tom Vilsack met the farmers -- representing pomegranate and apple growers -- at an fruit juice export plant in Kabul, part funded by the United States which has made agriculture the biggest non-security priority in the country. Seated outside, the farmers complained of lack of credit facilities -- something Vilsack is looking into -- and problems in the entire farming chain, from acquiring seeds to a lack of refrigeration and getting goods to market during a war. We hear of pledges of funding but we have not seen anything yet, said Haji Ghulam Dastageen, an apple and apricot farmer from Paktia province. We are looking forward to getting assistance from the international community and from the (agriculture) ministry, he added via a translator. Vilsack, who pointed to the U.S.-funded juice factory behind him as proof of U.S. commitment, later announced an additional $20 million in aid to help improve Afghanistan's agriculture ministry deliver services to farmers. After decades of conflict, Afghanistan lacks many of the personnel and knowledge resources needed to deliver much-needed services to its people, more than 80 percent of whom rely on agriculture for wages and sustenance, he said at a news conference announcing the funds. Last year, the United States spent about $300 million on agriculture projects in Afghanistan and projected spending this year is more than $400 million. Vilsack also promised to send more U.S. agricultural advisors. The hope is that funds spent bolstering Afghanistan's agriculture ministry will improve delivery of services to the country's farmers and thus boost confidence in central government and draw support away
RE: Apple-Crop: manure
Unfortunate is right considering how many calls we get at the research center every summer from people whose gardens have been killed by manure or compost made with straw that has high residual herbicide levels. Tordon and Milestone seem to be the main culprits and can take years even in a compost pile to break down to safe levels. Many times the herbicide comes in on hay and the person whose animals made the manure is totally unsuspecting. The only one to blame is the person who uses the end product without totally checking it out, everyone ahead of them in the process has obeyed the law. I've often thought that if an unscrupulous person wanted to cheat the organic laws they could use manure with herbicide residue for legal weed control. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Axel Kratel Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 10:26 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: manure Unfortunately, the answer is yes, at least according to OMRI. I say unfortunately, because this means a certified organic orchard in this manner can have more chemical pesticides than a conventional orchard that uses organic pesticides but chemical fertilizer. I would love to hear how you manage an organic apple orchard in Maine, that must be a tough thing to do. Here in the West we are so dry during the growing season that organic is relatively easy to do. But I hear it's much harder on the East coast. From: Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 6:41:49 AM Subject: Apple-Crop: manure If you apply manure from animals that are not raised organically or are confined to cages or feed lots are you still organic? I think too much! Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME
RE: Apple-Crop: deer
In a sense we do treat deer the same as codling moth, if we're smart we fence them out. Spraying for deer doesn't really work just like fencing out codling moth doesn't. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of rkpeng...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer At the risk of being branded by PETA as the Charles Manson of the animal world, why do growers treat deer (a pest of their fruit trees) differently than Codling Moth ( a pest of their fruit trees). -Original Message- From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: deer I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 - - The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: UK: Organic nutrient levels 'no higher' (Fruitnet.com)
I think nutrition alone doesn't determine why a shopper would prefer organic. For some it's a matter of ideals and for others a distrust (perceived or real?) of the chemicals used on our food. For some it's support of small local farmers where sustainability appears greater than large scale commercial farming. I wish parathion and DDT hadn't of been banned but after visiting a commercial egg factory I'll never eat another commercial egg. I doubt this report, which was also on CNN yesterday, will make a heck of a lot of difference in the sales of organic. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Dan Digiacomandrea Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:56 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Apple-Crop: UK: Organic nutrient levels 'no higher' (Fruitnet.com) Thought this was a timely article considering the recent threads on Apple Crop. Just wanted to fan the flames a little. It's been kind of quiet! UK: Organic nutrient levels 'no higher' (Fruitnet.com) Report suggests there is no significant difference in nutritional value of organic crops compared with conventionally grown produce A report commissioned by the UK Food Standards Agency has dealt a hefty blow to the organic food sector after it concluded there was no significant difference in the nutritional value or health benefits associated with organically produced products compared with food produced using conventional methods. The study, which was conducted by the London School of Hygiene Tropical Medicine (LSHTM), looked at a broad number of research projects conducted over the past 50 years. Of the 55 studies referenced in the final report, only a handful confirmed differences in the nutritional content of organic versus conventional food. Those differences, said the LSHTM, were not large enough to make any difference to public health. A small number of differences in nutrient content were found to exist between organically and conventionally produced crops and livestock, but these are unlikely to be of any public health relevance, said Dr Alan Dangour, who led the investigation. Our review indicates that there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority. Published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the report found no differences in most nutrients - including vitamin C, calcium, and iron - between the two kinds of crop. Where differences were observed, for example in the level of nitrogen and phosphorus detected, these were most likely to be due to differences in fertilizer use and ripeness at harvest and were unlikely to provide any health benefit, the report concluded. However, the report has been heavily criticised by UK organics lobby group the Soil Association. Policy director Peter Melchett argued that the review had rejected almost all the existing studies of comparisons between organic and non-organic nutritional differences. Although the researchers say that the differences between organic and non-organic food are not 'important', due to the relatively few studies, they report in their analysis that there are higher levels of beneficial nutrients in organic compared to non-organic foods, he said. Without large-scale, longitudinal research, it is difficult to come to far-reaching clear conclusions on this, which was acknowledged by the authors of the FSA review. Also, there is not sufficient research on the long-term effects of pesticides on human health. The study did not take into consideration the use of pesticides or the environmental impact of the different farming practices involved. Gill Fine, FSA director of consumer choice and dietary health, said: Ensuring people have accurate information is absolutely essential in allowing us all to make informed choices about the food we eat. This study does not mean that people should not eat organic food. What it shows is that there is little, if any, nutritional difference between organic and conventionally produced food and that there is no evidence of additional health benefits from eating organic food. She added: We recognise that there are many reasons why people choose to eat organic, such as animal welfare or environmental concerns. The agency will continue to give consumers accurate information about their food based on the best available scientific evidence. Published 30 July 2009 Dan DiGiacomandrea Bayer CropScience 68 Chadwick Manor Fairport, NY 14450 585-330-3263 Fax 585-425-8774 Email: dan.digiacomand...@bayercropscience.com Website: www.bayercropscienceus.com The information contained in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s) and may be confidential,
RE: Apple-Crop: deer
I was planning on a 10' electric deer fence this fall but if Budweiser would work instead it's on sale right now. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: *Potential Spam* Re: Apple-Crop: Ethryl
My experience will Ethryl bordered on unethical. About two weeks before a large, beautiful Golden Delicious harvest we had a hail storm. Fruit sugar levels were too low by Washington state law to harvest so the packing house fieldman recommended spraying Ethryl to raise sugar levels before the hail marks showed up. Around 200 bins of fruit was sprayed, rush harvested, packed and sold within a week. Our returns came back good with no complaints from the packinghouse salesmen so I guess it must have worked. I wouldn't recommend it nor do it again. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: *Potential Spam* Apple-Crop: Apple tree support systems
I've never had to experience hurricane force winds but have seen many winds in excess of 50 mph coming from all directions usually associated with thunder storms. Trees were on M7 and M26. Our simple yet effective trellis system has held up well with no tree losses. Trellis system consisted of 12' treated 4' diameter posts sunk 2' in the ground spaced 50' apart with angled post at the row ends. Just one 13 gauge high tensile wire was stretched and stapled to the top of the post at ten feet and led down over the angled end post to a 4' screw in type metal anchor. When the trees were first planted a sheet rock screw was screwed in about 4 above the ground, sounds a bit brutal but I saw no ill effects. Heavy duty UV resistant baling twine was tied to the wire directly above the tree then tied off to the screw. Plastic tree tie tape was tied around the trunk and baling twine about every 2' as the tree grew. The sheet rock screw also served the purpose to attach kite string used to pull down lower branches in training. The twine attached to the central leader was also a good place to tie heavier string used to keep fruit laden branches from breaking off. In your case with older trees you could just tie the twine to a lower leader at the central leader and use tree tape in several places up the central. Single wire at ten feet doesn't interfere with orchard traffic. In fact you could even tractor mow it cross ways providing there is enough space between the trees. When I penciled it out this system was cheaper, labor included, than a 2 treated post at each tree but with wire prices going though the roof lately (along with every thing else) it might have changed. If you really expect 70 mph winds substitute 1/2 electrical conduit pounded in the ground and attached to the single wire instead of the baling twine. Smaller pipe size should be much cheaper than a larger pipe free standing. Post length and wire height could change with your projected tree height. Good luck in whatever system you choose. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Barclay Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:41 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: *Potential Spam* Apple-Crop: Apple tree support systems I am planning a replacement of our present apple tree support system used on our more dwarfing and weaker rooted stocks. Presently our M26 trees are wooden staked. Lately we have had some minor storms with winds up to 40 MPH. After these storms we have had to straighten and re-stake around 50 trees each time. The wooden stakes either break, bend or just pull out. I have also seen staked M7 trees blown over. This can happen even on lighter-cropped trees and 1/2 through the season. Since we are 10 miles from the Jersey shore I am worried about a strong hurricane with winds, say, of 75 MPH with a heavy fruit load. Some research has indicated that long, deeply placed steel stakes at each tree along with sturdy tying would work. Another idea is a single, heavily guyed cable down the row next the the central leaders. I am not fond of a full trellis system because of the expense, the installation problems in older blocks and the accessibility problems for pick-your-own. I am wondering if any of you have seen or have experience with tree support systems that really work well for storm protection. Thank you. David Barclay Colts Neck, New Jersey -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: ROI on bringing back derelict portions of an orchard...
We have ten 100 year plus Macs that weren't tended to for eight years. They aren't going anywhere since they are considered a historical site. Just getting the height down to where an airblast sprayer could reach them involved a chainsaw on a 18 foot ladder making ten inch cuts. About 16 man hours per tree. Never again... Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt McCallum Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:34 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: ROI on bringing back derelict portions of an orchard... I also tried it once and would never do it again. The old varieties just do not hold a candle to the new ones and you will spend more money on labor bringing it back than you'd spend on new trees. We also found out that we had a resistant strain of apple scab in the orchard and could never get very good control. Matt McCallum On Nov 10, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Mosbah Kushad wrote: Mike: My suggestion is not to waist your time and money on an orchard that has been ignored for that long, unless you are a researcher. I have seen a couple of orchards in Illinois that had the same situation where the owners tried for a couple of years to revive the trees, but they failed .. Several new varieties, rootstocks, and training systems have been developed in the last 10 to 15 years that may work better for you. Call Jon Clements or Wes Autio at U Mass and they will help you out.. Mosbah Kushad, University of Illinois From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Meehan Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:15 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: ROI on bringing back derelict portions of an orchard... Hi all. The orchard I work for brought back a section last year that had been untended and out of production for at least 10 years. I was wondering if anyone has done something similar in recent years, and had any data on the return on investment in the first/second year, fruit quality, extra steps taken, etc...? I am preparing all this data for my orchard, and was wondering if anyone had anything similar to compare it to. Thank you all for your consideration. Mike Meehan Sholan Farms Leominster, MA
RE: Apple-Crop: Wire limb spreaders
I used the wire spreaders you describe many years ago purchased from Northwest Wholesale in Wenatchee, Washington. The spreaders were made and patented by a man in Wenatchee. They worked great but the biggest complaint was occasionally they would get lost in a tree only to be found by a pair of unsuspecting loppers years later. This usually resulted in damage to the lopper. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, Montana -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Black Diamond Farm Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:14 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Apple-Crop: Wire limb spreaders About 10 years ago we bought a bunch of wire limb spreaders in 2 sizes. For a certain stage of growth (between clothespins and notched angle spreaders) they are the only type of spreader that I've found that works for limbs that are still flexible. Since we can't post photos to the list-serve, let me attempt to describe them: Each spreader consists of a firm wire that you hook around the main trunk of the tree. The other part of the wire extends out (they come in a couple of lengths) a ways along the limb. There's a gentle hook that you place on the limb to hold it down, maybe 12 or 15 inches out. We recently put in a new block of trees and next spring will need more of these spreaders. Does anyone know of a supplier who still sells these? Thanks, Jackie Merwin Black Diamond Farm Trumansburg, NY www.incredapple.com -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep
I recall years ago reading of what's called a Spanish halter used for sheep grazing in orchards. What the halter did was to keep the sheep from being able to look up. When they can't look up the only orchard foliage they are able to eat is the very lowest hanging. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Howell Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:10 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep Several years ago we worked with Linda Hardesty of WSU's Department of Natural Resource Sciences on a LISA grant to study the potential of using sheep to control under story growth in a mature cherry orchard. The pasture treatments were - 1. what existed naturally, 2. a planted mixture of orchard grass and Bird's foot trefoil. Grazed and non-grazed plots were set up for each treatment. You should contact Linda ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ) for more advice on forage for sheep in an orchard setting for Western Washington. A larger part of the experiment for us was convincing sheep not to eat cherry foliage. Those efforts included barriers (movable pens, fencing, head elevation restrictors for the sheep) and aversion training (similar to what some alcoholics might endure to wean themselves from the bottle). We only had problems with debarking when the animals were allowed to stay in the orchard for extended periods of time. It was best only to allow them in the orchard for short feeding cycles. Bedding down was best allowed in a nearby pen. All in all, it was a very interesting study. However, in the end I found the effort more than the wool and meat were worth. I valued my trees as significantly more important than the small livestock operation. Someone else might figure out a better way. Linda tells me she knows of a few growers who allow sheepherders to sweep their flocks through large orchards in the fall to clean up weeds, leaves and fruit drops. Bill Howell Yakima Valley, WA - Original Message - From: Stina Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1970 3:54 AM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed I tried sheep under my full sized pear trees, and ended up having to put fences around each tree as the sheep were climbing up in the tree to eat the young fruit and the leaves. I pulled the sheep before they could girdle the bark. I got mixed results as far as mowing, and as I am an orchardist, not a livestockist, the sheep were small when they went to slaughter. Maybe others have had better results, but I found it cheaper and easier to buy lamb from my neighbor, and continue to use my mower in the orchard. Best of luck. Stina Booth Booth Canyon Orchard Twisp, Washington On Friday, June 22, 2007, at 08:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Listers: Can anyone refer me to a turf specialist in USDA Extension so that I can find these answers? There was a USDA SARE project completed a number of years ago which demonstrated the potential to take income from two farm enterprises: Trellised tree fruit grown over a grass orchard floor grazed by Sheep. Sounds impossible, I know, but it was successful as well as organic, and it reduced floor maintenance considerably. What I would like to know is what was/were the grass(es) used. Here is why. Sheep are vulnerable to endophyte toxicity which is common in some grass species, therefore the species/varieties of grasses must be endophyte free. I suspect the answer will be one or more of the rye grasses which I understand are used for grazing in New Zealand. It needs also to be hardy in Zone 6-7. I would also hope that any such endophyte free grass(es) be something more manageable than the heavy producing forage varieties used for green chop and hay production so that it is possible to use power mowers if necessary, esp. as the harvest season approaches after the sheep have been pulled off. Thanks you kindly! D. Del Boca N.W. Washington State --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- - The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: *Potential Spam* Apple-Crop: bee activity
Not sure on the pollen aspect but when the temps rise bees start spending more time hauling water to the hive rather than foraging. Best thing a grower can do is make sure a water supply the bees can access without drowning is close by. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, MT 59828 (406)961-3025 From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Franklyn Carlson Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 5:46 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: *Potential Spam* Apple-Crop: bee activity -- Would like to get some comments feedback regarding temps and bee activity during a real hot bloom period. Here in central Massachusetts we have had temps in the 88 degree range for the last 3 to 4 days. Have not seen much bee activity in McIntosh at all. We see some activity in the Cortland, Delicious etc. Growers that get bees from different suppliers are noticing the same thing. Can it get too hot and make the pollen unattractive to the bees? Frank Carlson Carlson Orchards, Inc. Harvard, MA
