[AsburyPark] Re: Loffredo Had Dummy Plunger
Sour Sour Sour. AP had a great time today. Sorry you missed it. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stopped by C-8 site today for the clean up. Heard a funny story. As you may recall APP's story, Loffredo was doing the honors today blowing up C-8. However, he had a dummy (no pun intended) plunger. The real switch was operated by Henry Vaccarro's grandson. After he blew it up, all he wanted to do was go back to bed with his bottle. I wonder what Johnny wanted to do. Poetic justice. Like most things in this town, pay no attention to the man behind that curtain. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: C-8 Coming Down-Dan's Notes
Dan there is a very fun atmosphere in AP this week in anticipation of this. It's like everyone is gearing up for a big party. People are feeling some sort of release in the symbolism, and it feels great. I know it doesn't really mean anything, but somethimes that's what symbolism is about. Your comments below sound a little sour. I haven't heard anyone else talk this way about the event, no matter how they feel about this redevelopment. Since the steel was coming down no matter what, whether they can build to 16 stories or only 8, why not jump in with the rest of us and have some fun with it this weekend. This is a chance for some real unity in the City. One big party weekend centered around something we all agree on - that ugly thing will no longer be in view. I know you have strong feelings about where we go from here, and I respect that. This weekend though, I just want to raise a glass with you and your fine family and enjoy this time of comraderie. I'll see you out there, freind! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excerpts from APP with my comments With help from about 90 pounds of explosives, the 130-foot-tall, 60- foot-wide structure on Kingsley Street between Third and Fourth avenues will come crashing down. Thousands of people are expected to watch, and television cameras will be on hand to capture the building's downfall. But an even bigger building will go up in its place. Bigger than most realize. It's over. It's finally over, Councilman James Bruno said Wednesday. As Yogi said Jimbo, it ain't over till its over. It's been nothing but frustration. It's the last remnant of the failed redevelopment. Yes it is, but are the decaying hulks now on a waterfront a symbol of a successful redevelopment? It's been a gargantuan effort to get to this point, said Dean Geibel, the managing partner of Metro Homes. You're not over the finish line yet Dean. There might be a little difficulty actually being able to build the Esperanza. I hope that thousands of people will watch it come down, said Councilman John Loffredo, who will push the button to start the implosion. This is the most ironic part of the story. John campaigned (when the WRP was being negotiated) to demolish C-8, and as part of the Planning Board, recommended that it be demolished rather than reused. The PB and Johnny went even further recommending that no one be able to rebuild on the site higher than the height limitations for the rest of the waterfront (3, 4 and 8 stories). The WRP infact adopted the latter but permitted rebuilding. John posed with C-8 for TCN vowing to have it demolished and even went on the radio (Asbury Radio) stating his opinions, including that anything built on the site taller than the height limitations would stick out like a sore thumb. John has now done an about face. Not his first and not his last. Some of us still care about the truth. The only way to determine if the WRP REALLY allows C-8 to be rebuilt is to have a full hearing of the facts before the court. I'll be glad to see C- 8 come down and the Esperanza to go up, but the latter only if it is done legally. The WRP must be amended. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Chamber/Merchants Suggestion
Maureen you're right - what I listed was the proposal after Stu left. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tommy - That wasn't the solution offered when I was on the board with Stu. We wanted a discount membership that would include Chamber and Merchants Guild membership and for the Chamber to act as an umbrella organization. The merchants need the chamber, because the name and institution have national and even international presence. Gilmour put Stu down for the suggestion, then proposed it himself after Stu was gone. Maybe you were thinking of Gilmour's flavor? I don't know whether he had some different wrinkles. Maureen In a message dated 4/26/2006 12:32:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: We suggested a reasonable compromise as a first step - a formal laison person from each group to the other. Those two could start working on joint projects. That wasn't good enough for the Chamber. They were insistent that the Guild simply fold up shop and everyone join the Chamber (some merger). Maureen Nevin Asbury Radio -The Radio Voice of Asbury Park 88.1FM - 5 Years on the Air!! Asbury's Own Live Talk Show 601 Bangs Avenue Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM or Listen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/ Call the show 732-775-0821 Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 Speak up - It's America!! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Point of Order Mr. DeSeno
The credit is all yours, Oak. I don't know why the councilman focused on me and not you. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan responded. No one else did. BB, give me some credit for raising those questions off his sitealways hogging the limelight): so who has some VIP passes for the last show. Need 2. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: squandered
Wow, does it really have to be spelled out for you JJ? The purpose of the Chamber of Commerce is to promote the business community, not educate the children. When you have a strong economic engine in a City and a Chamber with a track record of helping the businesses to make money and everyone is flush with cash, then you can break off some largess for a scholorship for whatever goodwill traction it might bring you. Now think back to AP when you Chamber people picked up Bruce's money. Was Asbury or the Chamber in such a cash flush position to just give away the money? Collectively you people couldn't think of anything to do with the money to help the business community? The only thing you could think of was to give it away to students? You're the Chamber of Commerce, not the Board of Education. The Chamber never thinks of Asbury Park's business community, primarily because they aren't part of it. How many of the Chamber's board of directors actually have a business in the City. The President doesn't. You don't. I don't count branch offices like the Gas Co. and Sovereign Bank - it isn't like they are dependant on AP's economy to make their money. Mostly the Chamber has functions outside of AP. I had to go to a function in Neptune to sign up. Tom Gilmour brought the Chamber in on First Saturday, and it's no coincidence that it went right in the toilet. Now that the Merchants Guild has decided to pick up the pieces, watch it rise up again. When the AP Press did that 5 day hit piece on the City and there was Community outrage, the Merchants Guild fired back and protected the City. The Chamber said it wasn't their place to respond. Well of course not, the Press was talking about AP. That isn't the Chamber's area, is it? The Press said on the front page that the only available jobs in AP is for drug dealers and the few stores that opened on Cookman were too expensive to shop in. THE FRONT PAGE! That's not for the Chamber to respond to? Good thing the Merchants Guild was there to fire back. The Chamber is a stinkin' joke. The Merchants Guild makes things happen with $50.00 yearly dues. What is the Chamber's, like 4 times that or something? The Merchants Guild will never merge with the Chamber because the Chamber isn't about AP, and when you get a $50,000.00 gift the entire brain trust can't think of anything more to do with it than give it all away. Squandered. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but this needs to be repeated... BB feels $50,000 was squandered by the Chamber... How many scholarships did the Merchants Guild endow 4 years ago??? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 jerseyjohn99@ wrote: I guess the question to the group is: Is endowing a full scholarship to Brookdale for an Asbury Park Resident truly squandering money given What do you have against education BB? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 jerseyjohn99@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: He wrote the Chamber of Commerce a $50,000.00 check (which was squandered). I'm curious, BB. How much did the Chamber receive from the 2000 Christmas Shows, and how was it squandered? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: old reading...
I don't know if you missed it Oak but Jim Keady announced that he is satisfied with the new agreement. He's on board now. He has satisfied his compaign promise to hold Asbury Partners accountable. Welcome aboard, Jim! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Asbury Partners needs to know that the citizens of Asbury Park and their elected officials are still in charge of this city. Our council must have zero tolerance for any instance of Asbury Partners' unwillingness or inability to meet their obligations in accordance with the timetables laid out in the agreement. What we deserve regarding this agreement is fairly simple. If Asbury Partners agreed to certain terms, they must be held accountable to those terms. If they do not live up to their end of the bargain, they must pay for their actions or lack thereof. From keadyforcouncil.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: REI
Dan I read it too, and I still don't see where these investors were given equity as you say. The complaint makes clear they were selling Notes, Investment Contracts and OTHER FORMS OF INDEBTEDNESS [emphesis supplied]. That's not equity. That's debt. One part indicates that Klein somehow pledged his interest as collateral. If he out and out transfered it, then you're right that is equity. If he only collateralized it, then we are still talking about these investors being creditors only, not equity holders. Where it says they don't have day to day control over the operations does suggest an equity position as you say, because a creditor wouldn't expect to have that in the first place. I'd have to inspect one of the investment vehicles to give a formal opinion on debt/equity. In reading the Dottie transaction, as described, that was debt only, not equity. Either way if you are an equity holder or a credtor and there is no money left, your sinking either way (although the debtors have priortiy over the equity holders if there is any money left). --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, I read the complaint against RET. It is as I said. The investors are equity investors and only get a chance to eat after the institutional and commercial lenders. The investors were never aware of the debt on the properties, which exceeded $26 million (13 properties). Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Zaro's Appt.
Maureen, You're inquiring of the wrong branch of government. Judge Lehrer made the appointment. You might try his chambers for an inquiry (although often times Judges have a no comment rule on a pending case). Try the Administrative Office of the Courts, too. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good question, Oak! I assume you're wondering why no one else saw the obvious conflict - like the top attorney in the state, perhaps? On the phone this morning with a press spokes person for Farber, I kept asking for the reason why they figured it wasn't a conflict. That's what reporters are supposed to do, keep asking until they get an intelligent - or at least any - answer. After he tried to tell me it was obviously a local issue and he wasn't familiar enough to comment, and I found that hard to swallow, he eventually hung up on me. That's a first in 30 years of reporting - a government flak hanging up that is. My mini-editorial and the pdf with the REI complaint is up on my home page now. Hope people write Corzine and say we're not going to play the cronyism game anymore. Maureen In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 21 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:40:19 - From: oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: REI and the appointed receiver .Lehrer appointed Ocean Township lawyer Jerold Zaro as receiver to oversee the operations of the company and numerous limited liability companies formed to develop real estate in Asbury Park, Florida and elsewhere. What a club. Maureen Nevin Asbury Radio -The Radio Voice of Asbury Park 88.1FM - 5 Years on the Air!! Asbury's Own Live Talk Show 601 Bangs Avenue Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM or Listen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/ Call the show 732-775-0821 Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 Speak up - It's America!! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Squandered Springsteen$$??
Maureen you seem to be over-reading the allegation. No one has said anyone at the Chamber did anything untoward or illegal with the moeny. Did Bruce give the money with the stipulation that the Chamber administer a scholorship fund with it? If so, then no one can have a complaint, me included. If on the other hand Bruce gave the money to the Chamber without instruction, clearly then he had in mind something to help the business community. If the Chamber looked at the fledgling business community and decided not to help and gave the money away elsewhere, that was terrible judgment and showed a complete lack of respect toward the struggling business owners. I didn't even know about the scholorships until JJ posted this morning. If the Chamber decided to do that with the money and not Bruce, then I stand by my allegation - squandered. It should have been spent on business. I don't need any info on why the Chamber and the Merchants Guild didn't get together. I have all the info on that I need, since I was part of the decision on the Merchants Guild side. We suggested a reasonable compromise as a first step - a formal laison person from each group to the other. Those two could start working on joint projects. That wasn't good enough for the Chamber. They were insistent that the Guild simply fold up shop and everyone join the Chamber (some merger). Right. Like the Yankees are going to fold up and join the Mets. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, Tommy. It's clear that you were called on that one. Better hollar uncle. There is no way the Chamber squandered any of that $50,000, which was placed in the scholarship fund. The treasurer and the president, past and present, will answer any questions you have in that department. I had my own quarrels as a member of the chamber, but misappropriation of funds was not one of them. This viscious rumor should be given the last rites. The way you've positioned your argument - the Merchants vs the Chamber - is what this city is choking on. That attitude is what defeated the chamber (and don't think the merchants are dancing any jigs either) that and the systemic change in the business world. We don't have large paternalistic corporations in this area - and possibly in the country - anymore. And the ones that are here no longer want their employees spending hours at meetings while on the payroll. Stu Koperweis tried for months to get a coalition going between merchant members and chamber members. Call me sometime and I'll tell you about the back stabbing that defeated that. And, it didn't have anything to do with saving Asbury. It's all about phony smiles and big shows to lure investors, some of which did a piss poor job of vetting their own talent. You're way off base with your impressions on this one. Stu worked full time for half pay to try to save that chamber. It's time someone acknowledged as much. Maureen In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 23 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:02:41 - From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: squandered Wow, does it really have to be spelled out for you JJ? The purpose of the Chamber of Commerce is to promote the business community, not educate the children. When you have a strong economic engine in a City and a Chamber with a track record of helping the businesses to make money and everyone is flush with cash, then you can break off some largess for a scholorship for whatever goodwill traction it might bring you. Now think back to AP when you Chamber people picked up Bruce's money. Was Asbury or the Chamber in such a cash flush position to just give away the money? Collectively you people couldn't think of anything to do with the money to help the business community? The only thing you could think of was to give it away to students? You're the Chamber of Commerce, not the Board of Education. The Chamber never thinks of Asbury Park's business community, primarily because they aren't part of it. How many of the Chamber's board of directors actually have a business in the City. The President doesn't. You don't. I don't count branch offices like the Gas Co. and Sovereign Bank - it isn't like they are dependant on AP's economy to make their money. Mostly the Chamber has functions outside of AP. I had to go to a function in Neptune to sign up. Tom Gilmour brought the Chamber in on First Saturday, and it's no coincidence that it went right in the toilet. Now that the Merchants Guild has decided to pick up the pieces, watch it rise up again. When the AP Press did that 5 day hit piece on the City and there was Community outrage, the Merchants Guild fired back and protected the City. The Chamber said it wasn't their place
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady Happy
Me? Who cares about me? I'm not a council member! You do wear your heart on your sleeve, Maureen (which is what I like about you - you come off passionate). The problem is you don't admit to your passions. You were a big John Hamilton supporter. The week he was arrested, your show barely mentioned it, and you did other topics that night. Imagine if that were Kevin, Jimmy or John. Would you do a show about it? You'd still be talking about it (mention Weldon much?). Here is Jim Keady, who is clearly your guy. He seems to have done a complete about face on his campaign issues. He is expressing satisfaction with the new DRA, which is quite contraty to your position. Suddenly your issue is what do I think? Me? Come on - let it out. Tear into Councilman Keady. You know you want to! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you Tom? What about your criticism of the agreement? Whatever happened to that? And I wouldn't jump to conclusions about Keady. When he left for Calif. he thought the agreement would be in the form of an amendment - an ordinance. Didn't you have an opinion about that, too? Maureen In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 24 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:07:08 - From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: old reading... I don't know if you missed it Oak but Jim Keady announced that he is satisfied with the new agreement. He's on board now. He has satisfied his compaign promise to hold Asbury Partners accountable. Welcome aboard, Jim! Maureen Nevin Asbury Radio -The Radio Voice of Asbury Park 88.1FM - 5 Years on the Air!! Asbury's Own Live Talk Show 601 Bangs Avenue Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM or Listen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/ Call the show 732-775-0821 Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 Speak up - It's America!! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Zaro's Appt.
First off know that Judge Leherer is the Chancery judge in Monmouth. Every county has one (some have more). As a matter of jurisdiction, Perogative Writs (when you challenge government action) are a Chancery issue so they go to him. Such things as receiverships are also a Chancery issue, so they go to him as well. Don't read anything into it that these cases are going to Judge Lehrer. No matter what County Asbury Park was in, these matters would automatically be assigned to the Chancery judge in the County. It's just a matter of jurisdiction. No one is chosing the Judge here. As for what is next, the receiver (Mr. Zaro) is appointed to be a fiduciary for the defrauded. That means he has to handle the assets of REI in a fashion that maintains them for the benefit of the defrauded (for the benefit of REI too). He will clearly have to study the issue first to see what is best. He will likely have discretionary power to eventually sell, but I expect he will take sometime to see exactly where everything stands. It might be in the best interest of the defrauded to complete some projects first. Certainly buildings have to be maintained pending sale. I'm sure eventually some if not all the assets will be sold, the question will be when does Mr. Zaro think the time is right. Note though that the Court is free to confer whatever powers to Mr. Zaro it wishes, so I would have to see the Order of the Court to know for sure. In the paragrpah above I'm speaking in general terms. I can't rule out that the judge made it simple and empowered Zaro to simply sell everything right now. We have to see the Order appointing the receiver to know for sure. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what happens next? will the assets go up for sale? oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well that, and the judge who does the appointment is the same one ( I think) has handled the eminent domain issues, redevelopment issues etc. No that I don't think the firm is good. They are. I think BB should of been appointed receiver. We had a deal. Time for new vultures to line up. SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park home Asbury park nj Asbury park hotel Asbury park foreclosure Asbury park real estate Asbury park - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group AsburyPark on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: REI
Dan I pointed out those very things in my post. None of what either of us cites makes it clear. As I said we have to see the document to be sure. Most of it leans toward the sale of debentures, not equity interests. We can argue all day about it but without the document you can't know for sure. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Dan I read it too, and I still don't see where these investors were given equity as you say. The complaint makes clear they were selling Notes, Investment Contracts and OTHER FORMS OF INDEBTEDNESS But it also says the following A. Defendants Offer Sale of unregistered Securties;l to Investors I 39. The RE1 Notes are offered as 'investment vehicles for the real estate ventures of REI. REI's real estate ventures purportedly earn investment income or capital appreciation. (Leone Cert. 84 24-27, 42, Ex. D) ; (Winters Cert. s 9% 18-25, EX. C . ) How do you get capital appreciation without an equity kicker? 41. Most RE1 Notes are titled Assignments of Interest - . . . Preferred Return on Investment (ROI) . Under the RE1 Notes, the maker, usually Klein, assigns his share of the property described [in the note], which entitles the investor to the 'rate of return on the face of the RE1 Note. (Leone Cert. Ex. D.); (Winter Cert. 9 9, Ex. F.) Tom, as I said, Klein or the LLCs assigned their interest in the property. What interest did they have? Equity interests. The investors were debt investors BUT NOT ON THE REAL ESTATE. They were debt investors to the ownership interests who pledged their equity interests as collateral. Call them what yoy will, but the investors have no recorded debt liens on the property. They can only come to the trough after the PROPERTY LENDERS have their fill. Some more to show the distinction. Property 101. You owe me tuition. e. the total debt and investor equity on the properties would not exceed 75% to 85%; and b. that the property securing and underlying some of the REI Notes did not fully protect investors because the properties were encumbered by mortgages and other undisclosed debt; c. that commercial and institutional lenders received first mortgages on the properties and would have priority over the investors' interest in the property; 72. Furthermore, the solicitation materials and the RE1 Notes represented that the investment properties would not be encumbered by debt greater than 75% to 85% of the market value of the property. (Leone Cert. 9 40) ; (Winters Cert, % 37, Ex. N.) 75. Most of REI's properties were also encumbered by the first mortgages of institutional and commercial lenders, but investors were unaware of these mortgagees. (Leone Cert. Exs. K, L.) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Kindred Spirits
No sir. I've never advocated for the taking of a building that an individual owns and loves. You've only ever read where I asked for buildings owned by the public to be knocked down - the Palace and Casino included. I dig the Wonder Bar. I even found use for the Tillie face there. The night I took my sons to meet Maurice Craft we stayed afterward and I taught them to throw snowballs at Tillie. Even promised them an ice cream for a nose shot. You see - there really is somehting for everyone here in AP. That's why it supports diversity. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bb, if it were upto you, you'd be owing me those beers at the Tiki bar, cause the wonderbar would be long gone Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: C8-KA'BOOM
Hey that's a great idea! I'll get back to you. ;-) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BB - No charge? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Design Competition Huge Success !
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bushes and landscaping are a huge waste of money and effort, as are the rediculous paint schemes. They cost huge money? 'You can put lip-stick on a pig, but it's still a pig' I'm glad to see you agree with me that those pavillions are pigs. The entire beachfront is an offically recognized National Historic Treasure. National Treasure? I thougth you just admitted those buildings were pigs? Make up your mind. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Design Competition Huge Success !
What big show is Tuesday? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bushes do make it look better...even if they die. Maybe they stuck them in the ground in the containers, so they can move them to larry's moms for m-day, after the big show tuesday): Anything helps, for now. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Full story on REI's alleged Ponzi scheme
I wonder if the State will eventually auction off their properties. Maybe we should form the APYahooGroup Realty Company. Dan can value the properties before we bid and I'll handle the closings. JJ can be the treasurer. Oakdorf can market for tenants. Perhaps we can make the State an offer before they auction them. http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS/60420001 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full story on REI's alleged Ponzi scheme
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What interest in title would the state have to auction? None. There are debt and equity investors. The state has no interests. It is up to the debt and equity investors. After freezing the assets, the state is likely to appoint a receiver who will hold and maintain the properties in trust for the defrauded. His powers will likely include the power to sell. From reading the press article, it isn't clear yet if there are equity investors. The article said REI was selling promissory notes, which standing alone gives no equity or security interest. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full story on REI's alleged Ponzi scheme
Panepinto has been doing REI's work since they started here in AP. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: I see Dan - we are on 2 different subjects. You are talking about priority of liens for a payoff (and you are right). Although I think you are taking some liberties with the word equity investor. Equity presupposes you own the property. Banks with mortgages don't own the property, they have a security interest - not an equity interest. So too for individuals holding a promissory note. Both you and I don't know how these things were actually structured so perhaps we should not be speaking, but that has not stopped us before. I looked at one of the properties they owned that I knew of (618 Asbury). It was owned individually by Gary Klein nd recently transferred to Jacob Cohen. I thought perhaps that the promissary notes were to buy properties as pools of investors. That doesn;t appear so for this property, so I really don;t know what interests the investors actually hold. If they had security interests as lenders I don;t know what position they would hold (order, first second, etc.) because I could not imagine a regular bank sitting as a second behind a private. BTW, an attorney Panepinto pops up in several transcations on this property. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Downtown Raid today!!!
I was in the elevator with these guys. http://tinyurl.com/kuo9f Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Save the Baronet Theater
Let me take a stab at the contrary argument to keep the conversation going. The City already decided to use eminant domain, and went through the procedural steps to use it, way back in the 1980's when they formally blighted the area by designating it an area in need of redevelopment. The sovereign decision was exercised back then. Accordingly, the subsequent contract with Asbury Partners is not putting the power of emeinant domain or the decision to use it in the hands of a private company. The contract with Partners is really only about timing and order (not if to use ED, only when and as to which property first). Therefore the City would have to live up to it's agreement. However if there were a default by the Partners, then... ... ... --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson nnjallans1@ wrote: If the council decides that these building should be saved, wouldn't the city then be in default? Personally I don't think so, but I am not an attorney, although I have discussed this issue with them. Your comment assumes that the city does not negotiate with Partners in order to save the Baronet. But assuming that it does not, the City's obligation is to exercise its power of eminent domain at the request of Partners. However, as I said here before long ago (and advised the city but it nevers hears what I have to say), the right of the sovereign to exercise eminent domain cannot be contractually bound. In fact, the right of eminent domain stems only from the existence of the sovereign entity and is not given (and thus cannot be taken away) by even the state legislature, which can only put limits on it. Accordingly, any contractual agreement to condemn or not condemn is not enforceable and is void ab initio (from the beginning or as if it never existed). Thus, if it never existed, there cannot be default or breach of contract. Conversely, the RA prohibits the City from condemning any property in the waterfront without Partners' permission. That is also unenforceable and the City could condemn anything it wants as long as it pays damages. Damages in this sense would NOT be breach of contract (because it cannot agree not to condemn) but simply the constitutional requirement of just compensation. A long answer to a short question. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady Blog
You're exactly right Allen, particularly if the escrow agent is an attorney (which is the best way to go because his license is at stake if he screws up by even a nickel). The escrow agent can't choose sides. He can't release any money unless both sides authorize it. If they don't agree, a judge has to make the call. Either party or the escrow agent can file the suit. I think it is a non-issue. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain to me what the issue is for: Selection of escrow agent at sole discretion of developer etc. I know we have a lawyer on the board so maybe he could help. It is my understand that when money is in escrow you still have to have a judge release it? It is not like Partners do something wrong and the city can take the money right? So if that is the case who care what attorney or bank holds the money? I would think that since it is Asbury Partners responsibility then they has also have the costs involved saving the city money. dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Here is what the Councilman said of the new agreement: Am I satisfied with this agreement? Yes. I know he has many fans on this board. What say you about this? I just read it too and I sent Jim an email respectfully disagreeing with him and pointed out in detail why. I have already outlined the same details here so I will spare the group, but in brief, No financial guarantees for total restoration Litigation escape clause still in Force Majeure Gave up right to declare Default on the issues in supplemental agreement No specific financial penalties for not meeting total restoration deadlines Too little money held in escrow Selection of escrow agent at sole discretion of developer etc. - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group AsburyPark on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Keady Blog
Here is what the Councilman said of the new agreement: Am I satisfied with this agreement? Yes. I know he has many fans on this board. What say you about this? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
I used to have a fear that Asbury Partners would walk away from the beachfront buildings after making the condo money. After learning more I've corrected that. The goal of Asbury Partners seems to be that they wish to control every commercial establishment from the beach to Grand Avenue. They are are going to control the commercial properties in the fast-track condo buildings too. Recent eminant domain proceedings against all of Pat Fasano's properties (which seems unusally selective since they are so disparate and far apart) by Fishman confirms the latter's desire to control all business there. Accordingly, I don't think they plan on never fixing the beach buildings. I think they plan to do it a bit at a time with condo profits as the condos are sold. Imagine when you try to open a business on the beach and you don't like the lease terms. You go 7 blocks down and you run into the same landlord. You go 3 blocks west and you run into the same landlord. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: I think if the cost is higher the escrow and bond will increase. The bonds definitely increase since they are supposed to be matched to actual costs based upon the bids. The escrow never increases They also DON'T have to repair the 5th ave Pav, instead being obilgated to do a total rehab...if i read the skip this then that correctly. Weren't the windows for CH ordered a few years ago? Let's wait and see. Tick. Tick. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Higgenbottoms
OK I already owe Oakdorf two beers. Let's see if we can get anyone else to drink with us. A beer for the first person who knows before it was JC Higgenbottoms, before it was Hitchin' Post, what was it way back in the late 1970's early 1980's? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
See the last line of my post for my thoughts on that. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The goal of Asbury Partners seems to be that they wish to control every commercial establishment from the beach to Grand Avenue. They are are going to control the commercial properties in the fast-track condo buildings too. Just curious... What are your thoughts on one company having so much power in the town? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
Depends on your definition of Eminant Domain proceedings. I try to be pragmatic with the definition and not so technical. In Neptune they had Jewell Marketing help them with a big Press Conference where the Township got to assert that they are doing their redevelopment without eminant domain proceedings. I must disagree. When the town officials and thier appointed redeveloper contact a property owner (who has no intentions of selling) and tell them that their property is in a new redevelopment plan, and eminant domain can be used, and will be used, so you may as well sell it to us now before we have to take from you, to me eminant domain proceedings have certainly begun. That is so despite the technicalities of certain paperwork being temporarily held back while they negotiate. I believe that to be the stage of the proceedings Fasano is faced with right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: What proceedings? Recent eminant domain proceedings against all of Pat Fasano's properties The city hasn't actually commenced eminent domain proceedings against Fasano's properties but has taken the first step in obtaining appraisals of the properties. I know in one instance that Molliver has once again appraised a property for less than its purchase price. Shame. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a shame that Asbury Park DOESN'T have a newspaper fighting for these business owners. Gary is this some kind of joke? Don't YOU own a newpaper? Talk about a story that is right up your alley!!! Here are the guys who own the Stone Pony, Deep Blue, Tiki Bar, Paramount Theater, CH and Casino, and are now going to Eminant Domain the Wonder Bar and the Fast Lane and control every entertain venue down the beach!!! (assuming A Lane's is not far behind). On top of that, aren't these the same guys who won't nail down a deal with you for the NJ Music Hall of Fame!?! You better lay off AP Press, triCity and Coaster until you take the lead here first, friend. This is more your paper's story than anyone else's. You should devote a month to it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
You're right Fred - they bought the right to redevelop them. You make a good point. That's why I'm sure there will be some folks who won't feel so sorry for Pat Fasano. He bought them knowing Larry had the right to take them, so he can't act surprised here. I remember asking him after he bought the Wonder Bar if he was concerned about fixing it up just to lose it to Larry. He never showed much concern about that. He seemed ready to fight it out when the day came. Knowing that Asbury Ave is already gone, Rita is being bought now, I was pretty shocked when he bought Baronet and Fast Lane so recently. I don't know if Pat has something up his sleeve here. He's the nicest guy you will ever meet, and certainly is smart. As successful as he's been I don't see him just throwing caution (or money) to the wind. There must be something I'm not seeing here that Pat does see. Wouldn't surprise me. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty lighty@ wrote: Tommy didn't AP Partners buy the rights to those properties? It's a shame that Asbury Park DOESN'T have a newspaper fighting for these business owners. Gary is this some kind of joke? Don't YOU own a newpaper? Talk about a story that is right up your alley!!! Here are the guys who own the Stone Pony, Deep Blue, Tiki Bar, Paramount Theater, CH and Casino, and are now going to Eminant Domain the Wonder Bar and the Fast Lane and control every entertain venue down the beach!!! (assuming A Lane's is not far behind). On top of that, aren't these the same guys who won't nail down a deal with you for the NJ Music Hall of Fame!?! You better lay off AP Press, triCity and Coaster until you take the lead here first, friend. This is more your paper's story than anyone else's. You should devote a month to it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
Werner, Dan and I always knew the plan. We can read like everyone else. What we are figuring out as you inartfully suggest, is whether Asbury Partners is staying or going. There was no proof of them staying in the past. In fact whether they would flip and run has been a constant source of debate throughout the City and even on this board for years, with no clear answer because there was no evidence of their intentions either way. Now that they are using eminant domain going west (as far West as Grand with the Felix Fox building) and obviously selecting just commercial properties regarding Pat, we have for the first time EVIDENCE that they intend to stay and control commercialism. See the difference there Werner? We knew the plan, the question was whether they would carry it out. Prior to this month, because they spent little to nothing on commercialism, there was no proof either way if they were staying or going. Now there is. The evidence suggests (not proves, but suggests, since we are devining intentions here) that they are staying. Now about those redevelopment credentials of yours --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tommy, HAAA,,H,ROTFL,LOL, HAa You've got me cracking up there. Ha Ha Haa It took you 4 years to figure this out. Well, better late than never.. .actually we should NEVER have gotten to this point. Werner --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: I used to have a fear that Asbury Partners would walk away from the beachfront buildings after making the condo money. After learning more I've corrected that. The goal of Asbury Partners seems to be that they wish to control every commercial establishment from the beach to Grand Avenue. They are are going to control the commercial properties in the fast- track condo buildings too. Recent eminant domain proceedings against all of Pat Fasano's properties (which seems unusally selective since they are so disparate and far apart) by Fishman confirms the latter's desire to control all business there. Accordingly, I don't think they plan on never fixing the beach buildings. I think they plan to do it a bit at a time with condo profits as the condos are sold. Imagine when you try to open a business on the beach and you don't like the lease terms. You go 7 blocks down and you run into the same landlord. You go 3 blocks west and you run into the same landlord. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
No answer on the Higgenbottom's question Oak? I feared I would owe you a six pack by now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BB, you scared me with no comment about the deal. Glad you see it now. Cush/Wake never even actually signed on board. Their signs went up, but I had a long talk with their agent. End of story. go back a few years and you'll see my early posts about this subject. There is no real need to rebuild the pavs if you start drawing people. They can do a mediocore job, and get high rents - as is. If, if if. I also said way back, that they had no retail experience. That was after I had a meeting with a few of the reps back in Feb 2001/2? Give us call when we know what we're doing. The amendments as they are, should be enough to make the original contract/ agreement/ehatever you want to call it - null. The renegoiated agreements were done in private, without input and should tossed. People will soon forget, that is, if the stores are occuppied on the bw and condos are sold. There will be a new breed of content people. It will be those left on Cookman, Main st etc that have to stick together to draw biz. A sinlge landlord can, and will, control the rent. First, they must build and entice businesses in their fantasy. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Hitching Rail
Not the answer I was looking for. Don't recall Nick's Clam Bar. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...was Nick's Clam Bar. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
OK 3 for the Fast Lane even though I never heard of Barrel. Before Higgenbottoms I believe it was the Hitchin Rail (or vice versa?) I was only at Higgy's a couple of time. I'm talking about late 70' early 80's. Different name. Happy Passover! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: No answer on the Higgenbottom's question Oak? I feared I would owe you a six pack by now. It's passover. Can't I relax. Make it one more for the Fast lane, for a short period, it might of been called the Barrel...sometihng like that. I was letting someone else join us. It wasn't the Empire, nor the Annex. You said the hitchin rail? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Final Agreement
I knew Kim Carrubia. Remember the Deck House well. I remember the Quack Quack. That was more contemporary to my single days than when it was Empire. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Wine Barrel was next to Anybodys owned by The Carubias. Burned up. I was good friends with the Corrbuias. Jules past away recently as did the sis. I have some old photos of them - wining and dining. They jsut sold the corners of Asbury Ave and Mainand Jule's house on Ocean Ave in Belmar. Jules was an amazing man. BB - it wasn't the Quack Quack either...that was the Empire. I barely remember Nick's. Fred, I do think there was short period when the the Fast Lane was known as the Barrell. PS, I worked for Corrubias at the deck house. The needed male waiters for ladies night. that was about at the end of the deck house that lasted about 2 nights. things you do in college. back to the food. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bar cheat sheet.....
I've been to that page many times. Your website is great. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is on my website and was provided a few years back from john stoneman http://www.asburyboardwalk.com/circuit.htm enjoy. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bar cheat sheet.....
As to the Higgenbottom/Hitchin Rail question, the answer I was looking for was JG's. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Two Way Benches
The benches that Asbury Partners are putting on the boardwalk have stationary backs and not the movable backs at the request of the City. Asbury Partners was willing to install the two way benches. The City was concerned about a liability issue. People, particularly children, have broken their fingers switching the backs, creating personal injury lawsuits. I was at that meeting. I lobbied hard for the two way benches, for obvious reasons. ;-) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: words of wisdom
Dan I was Ok with your post until I got to the last sentence alleging that there are people who let the City fall around them and that only outsiders are smart enough to know the value of the City. The problem that led to where we were in year 2001 pre-dated everyone. Most (not all) of the problems were caused by matters outside AP's control. -Bradley split the town in two (east/west) and there were newspaper reports of racial tensions in the 1800's in AP. The east/west dichotomy has always been a problem. -AP didn't build the Garden State Parkway that hurt us. -AP didn't invent air conditioners in cars that hurt us. -AP didn't invent hippies and Rock n' Roll, which in the 60's drove families off the beach when drugged-out freaks started sleeping on the beach. -Although originally it was AP's fault for denying Ocean Twp. a seat on our Board of Ed, nothing would have stopped Ocean from building their own high school later anyway, creating middle class flight. -AP didn't close Marlboro Hospital. -Three days of vandalism on Springwood Avenue that one summer in 1970 wasn't a public policy of AP, and wasn't performed by more than 99.9% of the people that lived here. - Asbury Park didn't draft the 1986 Tax Act that eventually killed the Carabetta redevelopment (Democrat Bill Bradley wrote it and Republican Ronald Reagan signed it. Blame them). -AP didn't write the unconstitutional decisions of the Commissioner of Education that segregated our High School (although shame on us for not challenging in Federal Court of 10 straight years). - Asbury Park didn't write the Land Use Laws that allowed Sea Bright, Long Branch, Bradley Beach and Belmar to move from resort town to residential town, thus taking Monmouth County out of the Rolodex of every travel agent in the country. Ocean County's tourism dollars nearly triple Monmouth County's today because of it. To say that AP was lost because of some defect in the folks that live here is wrong. Every major City in NJ fell into disrepair - Newark, Camden, Jersey City, Atlantic City, Hoboken. Were they all just untalented people? None of them as smart as you Dan? They are all in different phases of redevelopment now, AP included. How many times has NYC bankrupted itself? Was that because you and your neighbors are stupid? While I think not, by your standards, yes. Fred isn't the first one to take offense to your condescension about the locals here. I was. Obviously I'm not alone if only 3 people are clapping for you. I admit you are a bright guy, and I'm certain if you lost the very unnecessary you people are stupid and I'm smart routine I'd find it easier to clap for you too, as would others. It might make you feel good to say it, but it's false and you accomplish nothing else with it. Speaking of accomplishments, your claimed track record so far is holding up construction of the Esperanza 3 or 4 months, and a promise to hold up AP's redevelopment in the future. That's not helping AP. As an aside, your friend Smothers at the NY Times is quite lacking. He cited only you as an Asbury Park resident in his last column. I'm willing to bet you haven't slept overnight in AP 200 times yet (a year and a half you've been here, mostly on weekends, so I'm pretty confident in that bet). That makes you the spokesperson for AP residents? I'll make you a promise. If Smothers does another article on AP and mentions only you and not some actual locals, I'll take up the issue of the marker Smothers apparantly owes you with the New Your Times Public Ombudsman. That's what he is there for. Please notify Smothers of my intentions. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: Sorry but the vast majority of RESIDENTS are like me. Complacent? Sheepish? I hope not. Speaking of assholes the people who I talk to think your one by the way you act and sound at council meetings Are you speaking to council members, Aaron or Fishman? the only people who clap for you is Rita Gerry and Maureen, good following. I'm not running a popularity contest. I speak the truth no matter who likes it or not. If that is all that are with me then fine, all three are good people who care about this city. But even if alone, I would continue to speak. Mr know it all from NY big deal. No big deal. I don't need the attention. I know a lot about real estate, that's it. More than Asbury Partners and our city government. I also know right from wrong and when smoke is being blown up my ass. Just another carpetbagger. I guess it takes outsiders to see the inherent value of the city. But I resent your remark. Carpetbaggers take. I gave. I pay taxes and have just as much a right as anyone here no matter how long they have been here. You don't like it? Move. The longer you've been here and done nothing or
[AsburyPark] Re: words of wisdom
A terrific response Dan. Very thoughtful and classy. You've earned the right to have the last word. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Dan I was Ok with your post until I got to the last sentence alleging that there are people who let the City fall around them and that only outsiders are smart enough to know the value of the City. The problem that led to where we were in year 2001 pre- dated everyone. Most (not all) of the problems were caused by matters outside AP's control. Tom, my friend, calm down and look at your post, then look at my post in response to Fred's posts. I didn't say that outsiders were the only ones smart enough to know the inherent value of AP. I said it probably takes an outsider (too close to the trees to see the forest), but you know I don't really mean that. It is just a response to being called a carpet bagger and the repeated reference to outsiders, out of towners, etc. Let's not you and I go back to that again. You put that aside. It does not matter how many times I've slept here, but I think you're wrong about the 200. Even if I never slept here I own a home for me and my family. I don't rent it out; I am not trying to make money off of anyone here. In fact, I've lost money (time) being involved. I pay taxes. You chose not to live here and moved your family out. I respect your decision and do not consider that an issue in your committment and love for this city. Please give me the same latitude, although in reality, I will not try to compare my affection for AP with yours; you were born and raised here. I respect and acknowledge that. But that does not give you or anyone else greater rights than me. The APP has also used the term resident for me. I won't quibble. If it is such an issue (which it shouldn't be and I don't know why you would want to make it one) perhaps HOMEOWNER would be more accurate. As to Ron mentioning me in his article, I don't beleive he did in the first one, but even if he did, I think Reidy and Bruno got more play even though I probably have (and have said) more relevant things to say about redevelopment here. Do I blame long-time residents for the conditions that befell this city that were out of their control? No. But even with circumstances that are beyond their reach they can sound the alarm. I won't even place blame for some people's silence, but when they are silent about what is wrong and then criticize those who call attention to what is wrong, then I ask them to remove the beam in their own eye. You are much too smart to think that I can affect what the NYT writes. If I could, both articles would have been much different. With regard to the supplemental agreement, I think only today's editorial in the APP only began to do justice to the important issues. As to only three people clapping for me - what care I for the crowd's approbation? The could all throw rotten tomatoes and I would still speak. I need not the roar of the crowd to know what is right. Remember the line from Jesus Christ Superstar, the rocks and stones themselves would start to sing. That's what should be happening in AP. The bricks and mortar should themselves crow about the wrongs. I don't care who I offend (although that is not my purpose) - as long as the sky is blue I will say that it is blue. I will not be a lemming and say it's red. Maybe life would be easier to just go along with the tide, right or wrong. I can't live like that. As to me halting development of the Esperanza for months and threatening to halt development further, you know that is not true. I did not violate the WRP - the city did. I did not disavow the WRP in effect - the city did. I did not submit the purportedly wrong WRP to CAFRA and other state agencies - the city did. I did not go back on what I said about the Triangle - the city and Loffredo did. I did not enact a WRP contrary to public law - the city did. I did not willy nilly sign a RA with a force majeure with an escape clause for litigation when there were already lawsuits filed - the city did. I did not go back on my word about C-8 - the city and Loffredo did. Shall I continue? I cannot, and will not, be held responsible if the city refuses to do the right thing. That is the majority of the elected body's choice. There will always be consequences for doing the rong thing. There will always be consequences for doing the right thing. The former may outwiegh the latter, but despite that, you should do the right thing. There are plenty of people in AP smarter than I am. I too have feet of clay. I have never claimed anything else. You are free to advise Ron Smothers of your intentions. He doesn't work for me. Yahoo! Groups Links
[AsburyPark] Re:How it was and who really cares.
I renew my call for Werner to list his redevelopment credentials here. Degrees held? Number of redevelopment plans written? Number of redevelopment projects you've formally been retained in? Number of redevelopment projects you've completed? I'm not trying to pick on you Werner, but your posts are repleat with references to the rest of AP having to agree with you because this is your field of study and expertise. If I'm being asked to agree with you on the basis that this is your field, I'm respectfully requesting some proof that it is your field before I agree with you. I think that is a fair request considering your posts. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: Too bad not many people agree with you. We want to move on. We need to move on and stop trying to relieve our memories. Ocean Grove is more of a mindset for you. I mean that with no disrespect. No disrespecr taken, however you are seriously mis-informed and have no idea what my position or mind-set is. Your comment follows the common pattern of individuals who know nothing about the current best practices in community revitalization, redevelopment, planning, etc. There are indeed many ways to move on. Some very harmful to a cummunity, some marginally helpful and some extremely beneficial. All of them could be described by the unenlightened as moving on. Do you want the best for Asbury Park? or just what is expedient and profitable to a developer? Do you know that capitalizing on a community's history and cultural identity yields the highest economic return to that community? Do you know that a mixed use development is better able to survive through variable consumer and economic patterns? Do you know that tourism is the second largest industry in NJ and has the greatest economic growth potential? Do you know that State and Federal policies encourage economic development centered around heritage and community identity? The reason people don't agree with me is that they do not know the facts, have not done the research, and generally just want to move on As regards to OG - it's the principals and policies being followed there that have rescued that community and made it successful not that it is a Victorian community. Asbury Park had an enormous potential that was wasted by the current directions taken. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: THE ELEMENT OF TIMING
Apoojo, You claim to adhere to the importance of anonymity for yourself, yet you are quick to divulge the identity of others. It seems to me if you really thought anonymity was important, you would respect it for others. Will you be so kind as to favor us with your name? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apoojo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apeaexec1 apeaexec1@ wrote: It wasn't to hard to figure out APEAexec1. Did Frank D tell you to join? We know he's a union guy and listens to your union. We should be honored to have the President of the teachers union in this group. Just for the record I'm the only one who really knows what's going on. Who am I? Let's just say a family member is in your union. wow,i thouhgt bb had a ego you may top his, but my sources confirm what you said, the bd. of ed. turned down an insurance proposal from a very reliable company, it fit all the criteria equal to or better than, it was much better than they have, at a 600 thousand savings, since frank d. will not respond since he considers it to fall under the sunshine law , which is bs, where are all the past critics be it the homeowners ass., etc. why do they not attack this bd. the way they attacked famularo et.al.? where is the consistency? oh there is none these boys are their friends! poor excuse, cmon guys and gals once you set double standards you lose all crediabilty, maybe it wont catch up to you today but it will in the long run. look yourself in the mirror tomorrow and say i was fair and equal to all, you can not, that is ashame, because you are deep down good people, wake up smell the coffee, be consistent. Well, you got me. Who are you? I thought I could sit by and learn a few things that my brother didn't let me know.--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apeaexec1 apeaexec1@ wrote: Hey Johnny boy. I'm getting a real good Asbury Park Education here. It's a good thing I know most of these names.--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Well apoojo you seem to have the advantage of knowing who I am without me knowing who you are. The reason you don't remember me, based upon the names you brought up below, is that you are clearly a half generation older than I am. My guess is 7 to 10 years older. Just to prove to you I know a little something about your generation in AP, let's see if I can identify some of the people you are refering to below. Chico = I knew a guy they called Chee Chee from third ave. who I think was there the night Artie Dello was killed. Is that who you mean? Or do you mean Mr. C, but Mr. C is a bit older than you. Other than that I don't know. Ducky = Fornicola. Johnny Cag = I remember the name but I can't remember the rest. Caggiano? I'm recalling something about a store and the name Johnny Cag. Could be a different guy though. T Rozza = Tommy Rozza, Neil's brother and Blade's son. RIP. Nicky Al = Nicky Aldarelli. Fat Tommy = Tommy Aldarelli, RIP. I hung out with his younger brother Micheal. Butch B = Butch from the Pony? The Filosos = Friends with my oldest sister; she has me by 7 years. The rest of your friends I might remember with more info. As for the pool, if you mean the Monte Carlo, I was about 5 or 6 when they tore it out so I doubt you saw me there. If you mean 7th ave., my family shared a locker with JAP's family every year through my teens. Jimmy Condos (of JIMI) was a lifeguard at the time. As for Arcades, I hung out at Lee's inside convention hall. Jimmy Bruno worked there giving out change at the time. I had high score on Sinbad and Joker Poker and I'll gladly take you on in pin ball to this day to prove to you who I am. ;-) Later on it was owned by Joe Pallato, who would give you 2 for one on quarters. So how did I do? Are you about 50? I'm 42. You can check me out in APHS Driftwood Yearbook class of '82 (the five percenter years). Or in Werner and Frank D'Alessandro's new book on Holy Spirit (I saw a picture of me in there when I was 10). What year did you graduate APHS? On what street did you grow up? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
[AsburyPark] Re: Pinball.
Beach Boy - Cheese Steaks! That and pin ball and my tip money from the lockers was gone each day. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: The Tobacco Shop, The Beach Boys, Gina's Pizza, World Galleries,The Afican Bazarr. Kit Morris, Tamies, Chippy French Fries, Kohrs Orangeade, Nicks Arcade, Martells, Bubbleland. Memories are coming back. most importantly, I forogt, the Kohr's and Criterion Girls.): I'd love to bring them all back, today. One big party. Summer love lasted until November. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: APBOE Insurance
. You know it could have saved the city 600,000 dollars and you would have had the same coverage. How many layoffs are you facing? 20- 30- 40? You know they're going to go after the support staff and Teachers not the Administators. You should get some good ideas from this group, God knows we know evrything about everything. Just for the record I'm the only one who really knows what's going on. Who am I? Let's just say a family member is in your union. Well, you got me. Who are you? I thought I could sit by and learn a few things that my brother didn't let me know.--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apeaexec1 apeaexec1@ wrote: Hey Johnny boy. I'm getting a real good Asbury Park Education here. It's a good thing I know most of these names.--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Well apoojo you seem to have the advantage of knowing who I am without me knowing who you are. The reason you don't remember me, based upon the names you brought up below, is that you are clearly a half generation older than I am. My guess is 7 to 10 years older. Just to prove to you I know a little something about your generation in AP, let's see if I can identify some of the people you are refering to below. Chico = I knew a guy they called Chee Chee from third ave. who I think was there the night Artie Dello was killed. Is that who you mean? Or do you mean Mr. C, but Mr. C is a bit older than you. Other than that I don't know. Ducky = Fornicola. Johnny Cag = I remember the name but I can't remember the rest. Caggiano? I'm recalling something about a store and the name Johnny Cag. Could be a different guy though. T Rozza = Tommy Rozza, Neil's brother and Blade's son. RIP. Nicky Al = Nicky Aldarelli. Fat Tommy = Tommy Aldarelli, RIP. I hung out with his younger brother Micheal. Butch B = Butch from the Pony? The Filosos = Friends with my oldest sister; she has me by 7 years. The rest of your friends I might remember with more info. As for the pool, if you mean the Monte Carlo, I was about 5 or 6 when they tore it out so I doubt you saw me there. If you mean 7th ave., my family shared a locker with JAP's family every year through my teens. Jimmy Condos (of JIMI) was a lifeguard at the time. As for Arcades, I hung out at Lee's inside convention hall. Jimmy Bruno worked there giving out change at the time. I had high score on Sinbad and Joker Poker and I'll gladly take you on in pin ball to this day to prove to you who I am. ;-) Later on it was owned by Joe Pallato, who would give you 2 for one on quarters. So how did I do? Are you about 50? I'm 42. You can check me out in APHS Driftwood Yearbook class of '82 (the five percenter years). Or in Werner and Frank D'Alessandro's new book on Holy Spirit (I saw a picture of me in there when I was 10). What year did you graduate APHS? On what street did you grow up? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apoojo apoojo@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty lighty@ wrote: Hotel California get real Bruce Lee at the Baronet. hey fred get real you puppy, bruce lee, go back 10 more years , it was the first and only theatre in the area to show woodstock, the movie bb or should it be bs because none of us oldtimers remember you or yourclaim to fame, mr asbury park,we grew up here partied here, dont remember you,from the pool, the bdwalk the arcades etc., later attended many council meetings, bd. meetings in the 80s
[AsburyPark] Re: Pinball.
Pro Wrestling at CH (Bruno Sammartino, Crazy Luke, etc.). Boat Show. Jog on the boardwalk with bare feet (splinter fest!). Walk along sand to Allenhurst and sneak in the rich people's pool club. Blowing away Englishtown corvettes on the Cicuit with my '78 Buick Apollo, 350 with a four barrel, air shocks in the back, 60 tires and creager rims all around. Party under Convention Hall. Marine Grille site with your date in your car at night. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: umbrellas empress bayonne kohrs girls drinking Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: THE ELEMENT OF TIMING
Tell it to the Orlando's. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Let's hope so. It's just a scam to get more money for the properties. The new owners of the Fast lanes, Baronet and Bowling Ally. Their just driving of the value, every dollar they put into those buildings they will get at least 2 dollars back. They know what they're doing. It's like buying tax liens you know you'll get your money back with interest. What is the Eminent Domain status for the Baronet, Fast Lane and Bowling ally? In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Skip Bernstein skip@ wrote: The Council has moved to take the Kingsley Deli, Is 4th Ave next ?? Let's hope so. It's just a scam to get more money for the properties. Scam to get more money by whom? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: THE ELEMENT OF TIMING
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I'm showing a little age but I remember Fast Lane before it was called that. Anyone else here (I'm betting on Oakdorf)remember the name of the nightclub before it was Fast Lane? A beer on me at the Wonder Bar for the first correct response! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: THE ELEMENT OF TIMING
I knew it would be you! I forgot about Hotel California (you old timer you!). Looks like I owe you 2 beers. Anytime you're ready. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A beer on me at the Wonder Bar for the first correct response! Warehouse one time. Hotel Calfornia. Waht time? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: THE ELEMENT OF TIMING
Well apoojo you seem to have the advantage of knowing who I am without me knowing who you are. The reason you don't remember me, based upon the names you brought up below, is that you are clearly a half generation older than I am. My guess is 7 to 10 years older. Just to prove to you I know a little something about your generation in AP, let's see if I can identify some of the people you are refering to below. Chico = I knew a guy they called Chee Chee from third ave. who I think was there the night Artie Dello was killed. Is that who you mean? Or do you mean Mr. C, but Mr. C is a bit older than you. Other than that I don't know. Ducky = Fornicola. Johnny Cag = I remember the name but I can't remember the rest. Caggiano? I'm recalling something about a store and the name Johnny Cag. Could be a different guy though. T Rozza = Tommy Rozza, Neil's brother and Blade's son. RIP. Nicky Al = Nicky Aldarelli. Fat Tommy = Tommy Aldarelli, RIP. I hung out with his younger brother Micheal. Butch B = Butch from the Pony? The Filosos = Friends with my oldest sister; she has me by 7 years. The rest of your friends I might remember with more info. As for the pool, if you mean the Monte Carlo, I was about 5 or 6 when they tore it out so I doubt you saw me there. If you mean 7th ave., my family shared a locker with JAP's family every year through my teens. Jimmy Condos (of JIMI) was a lifeguard at the time. As for Arcades, I hung out at Lee's inside convention hall. Jimmy Bruno worked there giving out change at the time. I had high score on Sinbad and Joker Poker and I'll gladly take you on in pin ball to this day to prove to you who I am. ;-) Later on it was owned by Joe Pallato, who would give you 2 for one on quarters. So how did I do? Are you about 50? I'm 42. You can check me out in APHS Driftwood Yearbook class of '82 (the five percenter years). Or in Werner and Frank D'Alessandro's new book on Holy Spirit (I saw a picture of me in there when I was 10). What year did you graduate APHS? On what street did you grow up? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apoojo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty lighty@ wrote: Hotel California get real Bruce Lee at the Baronet. hey fred get real you puppy, bruce lee, go back 10 more years , it was the first and only theatre in the area to show woodstock, the movie bb or should it be bs because none of us oldtimers remember you or yourclaim to fame, mr asbury park,we grew up here partied here, dont remember you,from the pool, the bdwalk the arcades etc., later attended many council meetings, bd. meetings in the 80s , 90s, etc. dont remember you , you are a living legend in your mind only, you have been present and vocal since you got your job, god bless you, west side,drummond ave. wow thats stretching the true definition fron the 60s 70s oakdorf your sarcasim reminds me of that late great comedian andy devine, twang your magic twanger FROGGY, peace to all but do not bull shit someone whos been here longer than all of you, you insult people like myself, and others such as chico ducky joey p. johnny cag, t rozza, nicky al, the weathwerman, fat tommy , butch b. , lenny, frank n.stein, the filiosas, the late d. lewis,spike musto, d. klinger i could go on for ever, get real guys do not talk about the past unless you truly lived it which you did not stop wanting to be wannabes like i said that was the past,i was fortunate enough to lived thru it, (thank god for h. bolger) lets go to the future and work together for a better city, drop the false represntations the egos get real or continue buying postcards, your choice. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bills, cars and fools
If you went on a job interview you wouldn't wear your best suit? You would show in your everyday clothes because that's more reflective of who you are? I hate to disappoint you but in the business world you often have to be who the buyer is expecting, or he'll buy elsewhere. By your thinking Asbury Park should not redevelop the beachfront. It won't be reflective of the rest of the town, or the struggles faced by the West Side. We may lose our reputation and aesthetic of a haven for poor people, which apparantly some on this board would like to keep. People will say Who do they think they are kidding? when we build the beachfront. That's not who Asbury Park is! Perhaps we should build federal housing on the beach. That'll teach 'em to over- estimate us! How dare Asbury Park be phony and try to improve?! So to keep it real and be honest about who Asbury Park is, in front of the business world we are trying to attract, we should have our leaders tear holes in their cloths, speak with poor diction and perhaps pay for the business lunch with food stamps. That's someone else's view of AP; not mine. I think we are better than that and we should act like it. If you are going to imporve the City, at some point you have to cross the line and be improved, even if that means losing the personality of the pitiful, helpless, down-trodden City. Unless you actually desire that for the people of Asbury Park, in which case I guess it's OK then. Don't be afraid Asbury Parkers. Go toward the light and improve. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look, the guy is the main business face of Asbury Park. He shows up to a meeting in a jalopy, someone will figure they have him right where they want him from the start. I don't mean to be shallow but the poeple you deal with in life can be shallow and you can't ignore them. Some people in business will judge a man just on what kind of shoes he's wearing. There's certainly an element of truth in some people judging content by its packaging and someone might think they've an edge or advantage through such shallow reasoning; however, there's an equal case to be made against the guy whose primary strength is his wardrobe. The test comes down to whom do you think you're kidding? You may not like this or want to hear it, but whoever represents Asbury Park in business or politics will fool no one by showing up in a Cadillac; the city is a financial basket case, it has consistently shown poor business sense in negotiations and little proof that it has learned from past experience. I like and respect Terry Reidy but suspect he is paid a rate, both competitive and sufficient; to have attracted and to keep him here; if the Jeep was part of that package, so be it, but in the final analysis, putting him in a Rolls won't fool anyone. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Lawyers and impressions
I think that was a Grissom (?) movie called The Client with Matt Damon. De Vito rocks. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BB, what was the name of the movie with Devito where they play some small broken down law firm vs a big city firm? The movie had to with health insurance. the small guy wins, big insurance co that lost goes bankrupt. Call Devito. I think we can rewrite it. Use AP as the story line. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bills, cars and fools
Porche? I've never owned a foriegn car in my life! Never will! God Bless the American worker. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Earth to Tom; I suspect you've been reading the 3villageTimes too long. Who do you think the business world expects to meet when it visits Asbury Park#8722;Rumson? Despite your buddy Dan's assertions that Asbury is to become a world-class center of design, new-age bohemian lifestyle and groovy stuff, it remains what it has been for too long, a model of failed and incompetent local government, whose best suit is the quick buck deal, usually at the expense of its residents. Unfortunately, the course of action the city has taken to redevelop the beachfront, remains true to that heritage; further, I guess the fool they've entrusted development to, meets your personal measure of competency. He drives a Porsche, wears groovy suits, bullshits his way through business deals and stiffs naïve lawyers for business lunches. Sadly this is the Asbury the business world still expects to encounter and GM can't build enough Cadillacs to make it any different. If you went on a job interview you wouldn't wear your best suit? I hate to disappoint you but in the business world you often have to be who the buyer is expecting, or he'll buy elsewhere. By your thinking Asbury Park should not redevelop the beachfront. It won't be reflective of the rest of the town, or the struggles faced by the West Side. So to keep it real and be honest about who Asbury Park is, in front of the business world we are trying to attract, we should have our leaders tear holes in their cloths, speak with poor diction and perhaps pay for the business lunch with food stamps. That's someone else's view of AP; not mine. I think we are better than that and we should act like it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Proposed Agreement
What's on the website isn't an agreement at all. It seems to be a powerpoint presentation with some highlights. I want to see the actual contract. Then we'll know something. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bradley owned even more. More great books about the Shore's history all the way down to Cape May. Didn't HV once comment, and the city accepted, that CH would need $18m in repairs. Didn't the state give aroudn 1.5 million for the water tower fix. The city once tried to patch the casino roof after the copper price increase. Let's hope that esitmates are more then roll roofing. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: TCN Dan and old man rafferty
As long as I don't have to see a Tony Soprano Salami Sandwich on the menu I will welcome Satriale's with open arms and closed violin case. Dan S can be the first to buy me lunch there. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: with real italians doing the cooking. Of course. Satriale's Pork Store (Sopranos) is going national. Tommy D will boycott. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: bills for paymetns....
Being frugle (check spelling) is one thing, but let's have some class too. Are we going to buy the councilman some plastic letters to stand on the dais? A $33.00 name plate doesn't bother me. Speaking of class - am I correct in remembering that we pay for Terry to have a jeep? The guy should be in a Caddy. He's the City Manager for goodness sakes, not the equipment manager at a high school. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keady's $33.00 name plate): About time they start buying stuff online. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: TCN Dan and old man rafferty
I've spent many days waiting for a jury verdict to come in while hanging at Raffy's. It's a great place. Dan J is way off here. Raffy's is exactly what AP needs on so many levels. Of course Dan J is the guy that announced that we should have no parking downtown so we don't attract suburbia. So there you go. I wish all of you would take the time to write in and tell him how wrong he is. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/4/06 10:33 AM, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So last weeks gripe in the TCN about Old Man Rafferty possibly coming to town? What's he afraid, it might bring a couple hundred people into his downtown. People Sounds like he only wants the kind of eclectic businesses that go out of business in a year - anybody with a track record isn't welcome here. Old Man Rafferty's is far from a chain restaurant (and Asbury would probably benefit from one chain restaurant downtown to bring a crowd) and for TCN to write negative stuff about the New Brunswick downtown is ridiculous. That downtown is thriving with businesses, college students, and has a tremendous art scene. Asbury should be so lucky... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bills and cars....
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: F him his city provided car. If he wants to know the people of Asbury he should walk home from City Hall every day. Oh well there's the class I was talking about. Good grief. Look, the guy is the main business face of Asbury Park. He shows up to a meeting in a jalopy, someone will figure they have him right where they want him from the start. I don't mean to be shallow but the poeple you deal with in life can be shallow and you can't ignore them. Some people in business will judge a man just on what kind of shoes he's wearing. I've heard of jurors ignoring all the evidence and deciding a case on which lawyer has the better suit on. Nobody wants a cheap doctor, a $2.00 lawyer, and I don't want my buisiness representative in an old car. It looks cheap and doesn't bespeak success. Not my rules - society's rules. Let's show some class here. Pur Terry in a Cadillac whether he likes it or not. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: permanet tax abatements....
Having too many government owned and other non-taxable properties has always been a large part of what is wrong in Asbury. Funny, it is a complaint from way back and someone brought it up to me on the phone this afternoon. Now here the topic is again. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Asbury Towers. I know, it's owned by the church. Fact is, it is not a house of worship. Luckily, my grandmother, Jewish, had the opportunity to wind up there when it first opened, and got to live it out with a great view. Just wait to someone tries Eminent Domain to remove these non tax producing properties. Asbury Towers, Seaview, etc. Long Branch will do the same. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] East Orange or Asbury Park?
I found something in this article for all of us. Something for Tom Wolf, something for Gary, something for Werner. This police tech stuff really has my attention. Starbucks comment, too. By Mark Egan EAST ORANGE, New Jersey (Reuters) - Lenox Avenue in suburban East Orange was long a hotbed of drugs and gun mayhem and one of New Jersey's toughest streets. But Big Brother has cleaned it up. Police here say that thanks to new technology there has not been a single violent crime in almost a year on a street where the notorious Bloods gang sold $10 hits of crack cocaine and drive-by shootings were once commonplace. Now high-tech cameras and gunshot sensors are mounted at each end of Lenox Avenue, and on many other East Orange streets. The residential avenue of mainly multifamily homes is blocked from traffic and, with the exception of the 24-hour police presence, it looks as tranquil as most New Jersey suburbs. There's no drug dealers or nothing here. They all left, said Andre Davis, 15, riding his scooter on Lenox. There's no gang bangers, no drugs. The cops done a good job. The effort is part of a push to reverse a trend which saw the town -- once a middle-class suburb of executives who took a 30-minute train ride to Manhattan -- reverse a decline sparked by the deadly 1967 race riots in neighboring Newark, which gradually transformed the town into a slum populated almost entirely by lower-income blacks. This was once a very prominent city and a very safe place to live, said East Orange Police Director Jose Cordero of the town of about 70,000 people, whose Central Avenue was once called the Fifth Avenue of New Jersey. More recently, Cordero said, People were fearful of not being able to walk their streets. The veteran New York City police officer took the top job here in 2004 and says homicides dropped to a 25-year low of 14 in 2005, down from 22 in 2003. Overall crime is at a 20-year low. Last summer, police installed cameras in crime-ridden neighborhoods and on the city's commercial center, each equipped with sensors that can detect the sound of gunfire. Police use the cameras to zoom in on certain streets and virtually walk down the pavements looking for crime. DONATED TECHNOLOGY In what local cops call The Brain Room, a half-a-dozen officers monitor large flat-screen televisions showing street activity. And a Virtual Community Patrol allows residents to view panoramic still pictures of their block and report crimes to police using their home computers.Continued ... This program ... essentially hands over to community residents the ability to place the eyes of the police on a criminal problem with the click of a mouse, Cordero said. East Orange spent about $300,000 on the system, but the Internet technology that brings it all together was donated by a Manhattan- based company that provides broadband networks for law enforcement. Police here say the equipment was free because the firm that makes it hopes to use East Orange as a model to convince other towns to buy such systems. Only a handful of U.S. cities including Newport News, Virginia, have installed gunshot detectors -- more normally used by the military to detect snipers in places such as Afghanistan. East Orange police believe their overall crime technology is superior to that of any similar-sized U.S. city. This is a city moving in the right direction, Sgt. Chris Anagnostis said as he drove around the town he has policed for 19 years, pointing to just-built commercial developments still awaiting tenants and new apartment buildings and townhomes. But for now Central Avenue, once home to upscale department stores, fashionable boutiques and elegant restaurants, is a parade of fast- food joints and discount stores. On at least one block, things have improved. The Hollywood Theater, a plush movie palace where Spencer Tracy once attended a movie premiere, has recently reopened as a five-screen multiplex. The theater had been dark since 1986 before the $2.5 million renovation by Hollywood Cinemas. Ken Baris of Jordan Baris Inc. Realtors in nearby West Orange said a slew of new developments are selling well and, with homes in nearby towns such as Montclair regularly fetching over $1 million, he believes it is only a matter of time before commuters return to a town they long ago abandoned. HOPING FOR RESURGENCE Mayor Robert Bowser wants to transform East Orange into an arts center that could attract New Yorkers tired of exorbitant rents, noting spacious, newly refurbished, pre-war apartments here rent for a fraction of Manhattan prices. Bowser is in talks with big-name retailers and galleries, plans to open a school for the performing arts and hopes to attract a jazz club. But progress has been painfully slow. The problem with every major retailer we speak to is that none of them want to be the pioneer who is the first one to come to the city, Bowser said in an
[AsburyPark] IMPOSTERS!
Who are these people with an Asbury Park message board and not inviting any of us? I say we challenge them to a fight to the death! http://www.nj.com/forums/asburypark/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: IMPOSTERS!
Err, what in world does what you wrote have to do with what I wrote? My link is to an internet message board, having nothing to do with a Board of Ed. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: It does seem private doesn't it I dn't think anybody wants to admit they backed and elected suckers to the Board. We were better off with Ramon Palmer at least he was trying to dump Lewis. Who are these people with an Asbury Park message board and not inviting any of us? I say we challenge them to a fight to the death! http://www.nj.com/forums/asburypark/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: IMPOSTERS!
No problem, friend! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: I thought you were talking about what oak and I were talking about and you felt slited. Sorry Tom Err, what in world does what you wrote have to do with what I wrote? My link is to an internet message board, having nothing to do with a Board of Ed. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: It does seem private doesn't it I dn't think anybody wants to admit they backed and elected suckers to the Board. We were better off with Ramon Palmer at least he was trying to dump Lewis. Who are these people with an Asbury Park message board and not inviting any of us? I say we challenge them to a fight to the death! http://www.nj.com/forums/asburypark/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: what the ? is this:
70% of our famili3es are above the poverty line. I bet that's the best AP has been in years. That seems like real improvement. Also consider that the poverty line in America qualifies as the well off line in most other countries. Most Americans below the poverty line here have a car, several TV's, washer and dryer, cell phones, and other amenities that truly impoverished people in other countries couldn't dream of having. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thirty percent of our families are below the poverty line and another 20 percent are just above it, he said. The council agreed to hold a retreat to discuss its mission and set goals. A retreat Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: school budget
Dan, Ditto Ditto Ditto. Our firm had to take a 14% increase in health insurance costs this year alone because it was such a good deal. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apoojo apoojo@ wrote: Budget has increased by 28.85% in three years (well over 24 million) I can't answer your other questions and I am not defending the b udget. However, as a business owner, I know that our health insurance costs have risen more than 28% in three years. Health insurance costs are killing US businesses. Most companies have the employee share in the costs. Employees that have jobs that do not require such sharing probably do not know the benefit they are getting. It costs (in NYC) around $14,000/year for a good family plan. I know very large companies that simply give employees a certain amount for health insurance. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Bank robber
This actually supports the argument that the location of the police headquarters does not have much of an effect on stopping crime. It doe have an effect on foot traffic for sure. To Springwood it goes! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, more great news for the city. This toss out the idea that a sub station would help keep the crime down. The police station is right across the street from this bank. What can be done to reduce the crime / drugs/ murders? This has been going on too long. oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ASBURY PARK Authorities are seeking a man who walked into the Sovereign Bank at 308 Main St. about 9:30 Wednesday morning, handed a threatening note to a teller and left the bank with an undisclosed amount of cash. So where should one put the Prosecutors office, police station and municenter - does it matter? keep your enemies right next to you SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park home Asbury park nj Asbury park hotel Asbury park foreclosure Asbury park real estate Asbury park - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group AsburyPark on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Digest Number 1685
I'm sure a guy as smart as you can come up with more appropriate imagry. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tom Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. Oakdorf, The Citizen's Academy teaches you what you can and cannot do. You are never suppose to confront any person. All you do is call 911 and also pass along any possible intelligence to the police. I am sorry if this offends anyone on the list, but oakdorf, stop whining and grow a pair or go back to suckling your mom's breast. This is the really world and you cannot push off making it better on others. Stand up for yourself and the rest of your community. Again, sorry to anyone else on the list if the above paragraph was too strong for your sensibilities. I am just fed out with people that complain that something needs to be done and are not doing anything about it. To a better tomorrow! Tom Wolfe Message: 5 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:54:08 - From: oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: another shooting in AP --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tom Wolfe me@ wrote: From the past few days' postings, I see that the last shooting and crime in Asbury Park in general are being taken seriously by those vocal members on the list. So, how many of you are going to stop complaining and get involved. Everyone - residents, weekenders, investors, and local politicians - can be a part of Citizens On Patrol (COP). maybe no one wants to get shot or sued Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in AP
Dan that's the second post I've read where you've said there are more residents on the east than the west. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't know. Does anyone have th actual figures? The houses in the west are much smaller, plus the federal housing is in the west. I would have thought there was more population in the west. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote: Now that shows some visionary thinking and makes the most sense of all the proposals. That block of Asbury Ave is poorly used and the ambulance/truck center is actually using public property to conduct business !! It's in the center of town, would make a strong public statement on a gateway road and is large enough to accomodate Fire/EMS services. Its also on the west side of the railroad tracks when the majority of the town is on the east. In the future, there will even more density on the east side. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in AP
Or perhaps a whole police station on Springwood Ave and a substation in an area where there is less crime. ;-) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, curtincarolyn ccstylin@ wrote: The City need a Police sub-station right smack in the middle of that Dewitt Ave area. As a 24/7 resident of AP for the last 4 yrs I can tell you, without hesitation, that since Jan when Deputy Chief Kinmon and Inspector Van Buren took over the Police Dept I see a constant day to day presence...There are many new systems being implimented and considering generations of corrupt government, poor system management and irresponsible parenting I am seeing swift improvementsIt is truely a shame however, that there are still going to be casualties of what was allowed to go on here for WAY TOO LONG!!..Just what I see from where I sit Carolyn Curtin Asbury Ave --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: keep them in jail longer There has to be a stronger police presence - day after day. More buy and bust oeprations. Cameras on the streets. Time to clean sweep, street by street. Do what they did elsewhere. Knock'em down and rebuild with less density. Build new affordable housing. With all those millions poured into the schools. Pay each family whose kid is going into highschool $80k (20k x 4) to find them a new school. you can pay the families rent and education expenses. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in AP
Me silent? Freddy boy! I've talked myself blue in the face about the school system. Frank D is a great guy and my hero for saving one of only two truly historic buildings in Asbury Park. However, we could have 9 Franks on the Board of Ed and we will only make so much progress, because from his Bd of Ed seat, Frank can't change the real problem: The segregation in AP High School is STATE SPONSORED. State Sponsored is the important part there, and it is the case due to a ruling by the Commmissioner of Education which de facto ordered the segregation of APHS. Until a Federal Court suit is filed challanging the Commissioner of Education's ruling that allowed kids from our sending district to be bused to other public high schools (Red Bank Regional) nothing will truly change in Asbury. Segregation of Asbury Park's children is crippling to the whole City. What was the Commissioner's reason in his ruling?: He found that little Johnny Whitebread from Avon has a RIGHT (!) to learn the oboe and other instruments he will never touch again after high school, which outweigh's the black kids in Asbury's right to be in a desegregated school. Even if you are not a constitutional law expert you have to know that the Commissioner violated Brown v Board of Education with that ruling. That ruling was 10 years ago. Since then APHS segregated. We are at 10 years and counting and still our Board of Ed has not filed a Federal Lawsuit. IF I recall correctly the current Bd of Ed attorney was the attorney two administrations ago. He billed $750,000 in 14 months. The last adminsitration's attorney billed $500,000 in 12 months. Now the one who billed $750,000 has the job again, and I don't know how much he has billed so far, but I know he wasn't the lowest bidder for the job. All of that money and it isn't enough money for this guy to include the lawsuit to end segregation? Isn't he getting paid enough? I love and hate to laugh at all the self appointed liberal avtivists trying to help the poor in this City. The 1960's had real liberal activists: Martin Luther King, Jr., Bobby Kennedy, etc. Honorable people who helped others. If there was a segregated school in the 1960's, liberal activists would be parachuting in here to change it. Today's liberal activists, as Chris Rock pointed out, act like a bunch of substitute teachers. So there is your answer. While this City's school stays segregated, Frank won't be able to fix it, and $80 million Abbott budget hasn't been able to fix it. Only a Federal lawsuit will fix it, just like it fixed the schools involved in Brown v Bd of Ed. God Bless Thurgood Marshall (how ironic that we named a school after the man who won Brown v Bd of Ed but we dishonor his legacy by ignoring the segregation he defeated). Very truly yours, Not so silent. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Tommy why are you silent when it comes to the School System? I know you must have an opinion. Or perhaps a whole police station on Springwood Ave and a substation in an area where there is less crime. ;-) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, curtincarolyn ccstylin@ wrote: The City need a Police sub-station right smack in the middle of that Dewitt Ave area. As a 24/7 resident of AP for the last 4 yrs I can tell you, without hesitation, that since Jan when Deputy Chief Kinmon and Inspector Van Buren took over the Police Dept I see a constant day to day presence...There are many new systems being implimented and considering generations of corrupt government, poor system management and irresponsible parenting I am seeing swift improvementsIt is truely a shame however, that there are still going to be casualties of what was allowed to go on here for WAY TOO LONG!!..Just what I see from where I sit Carolyn Curtin Asbury Ave --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: keep them in jail longer There has to be a stronger police presence - day after day. More buy and bust oeprations. Cameras on the streets. Time to clean sweep, street by street. Do what they did elsewhere. Knock'em down and rebuild with less density. Build new affordable housing. With all those millions poured into the schools. Pay each family whose kid is going into highschool $80k (20k x 4) to find them a new school. you can pay the families rent and education expenses. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
[AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in AP
No Oak, that ruling had nothing to do with handicapped kids. Don't confuse the issue with another. It's too important. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What was the Commissioner's reason in his ruling?: He found that little Johnny Whitebread from Avon has a RIGHT (!) to learn the oboe That ruling also enables parents with troubled or diabled kids to be bussed to a district that can cater to those kids. A simple solution that court hasn't figured out, is to buy an oboe in Asbury and pay some music teacher from the outside $50 to teach the whitekid the oboe. but then the courts will say that the kdis has to have a professional oboe lesson. Wasn't there a case a couple years ago where Colts Neck was complaining that a family with 2 handicapped kids purposely moved to Colts Neck, knowing that Colt's Neck couldn't meet the needs? The result, the kids had to be bussed to a private school - costing over $100k per year. Something like that. It's a real f'd p system. Drive by Long Branch Schools. Geez, my abbott contributed tax dollars even went to a new computerized billboard in front of the new middle school. Money well spent. Carefree who gives a damn spending. The part of the school they haven't finished knokcing down is probably in better shape then any AP school. Speaking of, AP has to send their kids to a school Neptune is going to knock down. Amazing how Neptune and Long Branch manged to over construct some new buildings with only a couple hundred million of non-resident property tax $ while asbury in these years manged to spend only a few million more or less repainting the stadium. What about the kids that are bussed into white districts, like ocean twp, to play sports. OT even got a coach that way. Luckily, the guy was great and is a great person. However, he remains a very highly paid admin today. BB should know him. CBA has a way to find great athletes. Some of those great ones receive scholarships even though they would never admit it. They rerecruit. adminsitration's attorney billed $500,000 in 12 months. Now the one who billed $750,000 has the job again, and I don't know how much he has billed so far, but I know he wasn't the lowest bidder for the job. Love it when one professional looks at another's bills. Then wants to sue. Sue. Sue. Righfully so. How about hiring 2 FT attorneys? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: West Side-East Side Reality TV - BB
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To figure out what Springwood needs - just change roles. BB, move over to the apartments. You will switch homes with another family. They get to live in your home, on your salary with whtaever job they have - they get your cars, income etc. You get to move into their home, your kids. You can still work your job, but the income is their income, as is their bank account (if). You get whatever they get in social service aid. Your kids can go to any program their kids get. Transportation - whatever theirs is. If it's a bus, taxi etc. Shopping the same. While I bet the planning experts on the board and elsewhere would agree with me that the drastic effort you propose is unncessary in developing a plan, at the same time I will also tell you Been there and done that. My sweet Irish mother is still in the west-side house I grew up in. That doesn't give me the gravitas to have any more say in what happens there than anyone else, but I think it tends me toward your above-stated requirement somewhat. I won't spend concern on whether my life path was eqully hard as anyone else's or not. The key is understanding - I don't actually have to get hit by a bus to know it's going to hurt. Thanks for the other ideas though and as I said I will make sure your opinions are known (as with all else here on this board). Thanks again. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Open Space - etc.
Werner you go from Home Rule to the State plan in the same post below. Do you review your posts before hitting send? You came full circle there. Two posts from this one you further prove my point when you talk about the beachfront being a state park, which plays right into the point I made that we would never get such money. By the way your county government spent $11 million preserving land in Middletown THIS YEAR ALREADY. Wht could AP do with even a $3 million kick? If you think AP is ever going to get 10 cents of money like that you are dreaming. You see, their planning does affect how Asbury looks - it's tied to the allocation of resources. I stick by my original assertion. By the way you always call people ignorant and uneducated and other nasty things in your posts when it comes to planning. I wonder if you can post without doing that. Weren't you a ham radio operator at the telephone company or something, not a city planner? Could you favor this board with a list of your educational degrees in planning and a list of real world experience where you planned and built a redevelopment project? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, The Overlords you speak of have nothing to do with planning policies in AP. As you know, or so I would hope, NJ is a home-rule State in that local municiplities have responsibility for their own fate. The poor planning and performance in AP is directly attributable to our own dysfunctional ill-advised Council. I gather that you are refering the Smart Growth ? If so you display your ignorance in the subject, as you have in the past regarding other planning issues. A goal of Smart Growth is: Goal #7 Preserve and Enhance Areas with Historic, Cultural, Scenic, Open Space and Recreational Value If you know anything about AP's cultural heritage and history, as you claim you do, how can you advocate that this high density residential plan is appropriate and conforms to State policies? Werner --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Werner you refuse to recognize your Northern and Western Monmouth overlords. They have the $ and the power, and they will be soaking up all the open space funding. Our only shot at largess is to assist them by accepting our Urban asthetic and continue to further Urbanize, which they are trying to avoid. We're Urban anyway, so grow with it. Forget open spaces in AP. It isn't who we are. Rack'em pack'em and stack'em. It's time to go vertical and build high. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Open Space - etc.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for Werner, I didn't see him call anyone here stupid or ignorant. Then I guess you missed this from his post to me this morning: If so you display your ignorance in the subject, as you have in the past regarding other planning issues. So confident I am that he calls anyone who disagrees with him on planning ignorant or uneducated that if we go back through his posts and you give me a dollar for each time he does it, I can buy a $600 chair for my office like you have. I dig Werner and value him as a huge asset in keeping us appraised of the facts. He should get a community service award for that. I just don't know why he thinks he has to steady his opinions with personal put downs. His opinions should stand on their own without that. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: 2nd Ave Property - Eminent Domain
I caught that too Joe. Tinfoil hat conspiracy fiction. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Joe D'Andrea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 8:53 AM + 3/24/06, wernerapnj wrote: The selection of excluded properties certainly appears to have been biased. Many of the Bergh St Properties had recently been purchased by gay buyers. While other properties similarly situated on Webb St but owned by hetero folks were slated for taking. Oh yeah blame it on the gays. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Alarming
The County government spent $11 million already in 2006 buying property in Middletown for open space. Wasn't Fishman's cost to buy the Waterfront Rights in AP $13 million? Middletown also received a $125,000.00 grant from the state for their arts community. NJMOF anyone? I'm trying to sound the alarm that County and State politics is a game AP is ignoring at our peril. Don't make me laugh with strained analysis about a pocket park being an investment that eventually generates revenue from quality of life (I've read all about it). Penny stock, transfer figures on the books, speculative BS. Politics is an investment and it pays a community in hard dollars. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Open Space - etc.
Skip and Dan here was my complaint right from my post about Werner: By the way you always call people ignorant and uneducated and other nasty things in your posts when it comes to planning. Now please go back and read the last 5 words there. Read it as many times as you must to realize you both were wrong by expanding the scope of my complaint beyond planning. Here, I'll wait while you read it over and over... ///whistles Still don't see where you are wrong? Here, let me highlight those last 5 words for you: ... WHEN IT COMES TO PLANNING. Still don't see how you both expanded the scope of my complaint beyond planning? Hmmm... bet everyone else does. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Then I guess you missed this from his post to me this morning: If so you display your ignorance in the subject, as you have in the past regarding other planning issues. While one who lies can be called a liar, to say one displays ignorance of a subject is not to say they are ignorant. I am ignorant on the subject of nuclear science but I am not ignorant. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Open Space - etc.
You take it back? Great. Make me feel like a jerk for being so sarcastic in my post to you adn Skip. I hate it when people are nice to me. I hate it when the other guy takes the high road and leaves me standing there alone. You win this round. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Skip and Dan here was my complaint right from my post about Werner: By the way you always call people ignorant and uneducated and other nasty things in your posts when it comes to planning. Now please go back and read the last 5 words there. Read it as many times as you must to realize you both were wrong by expanding the scope of my complaint beyond planning. Here, I'll wait while you read it over and over... ///whistles Still don't see where you are wrong? Here, let me highlight those last 5 words for you: ... WHEN IT COMES TO PLANNING. Still don't see how you both expanded the scope of my complaint beyond planning? Hmmm... bet everyone else does. Sorry you had to wait so long for my answer but some of us have to work for a living ;) I take it back, you did limit it to planning. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Springwood - I need your help
Since this was just brought up in a previous post and I wanted to gauge your opinions anyway, please let me know your thoughts. In the Springwood Avenue Advisory Committee we are obviously considering many options. Let me be clear that right now there is mixed use of everything being considered: Stores, housing, rec, etc. One idea in the mix is to build a new state of the art municipal complex on Springwood to house City Hall, Police Department and Fire Department. The experience Cookman has shown is that it is still very difficult to bring people to AP to shop because of the the safety factor (even though it is safe as anywhere else. I had 2 calls this week from Monmouth people as to whether it was safe to come to my office). If we are still trying to convince them that Downtown is safe, we are light years from convincing them shopping on Springwood is safe. It seems to me that putting the Municipal complex on Springwood would not only make it feel safer due to the police being there, but it will create automatic foot traffic of hundreds of people a day down there between workers and people doing business with the City. It can be an instant anchor for whatever stores we can build there near it. It will also open up 3 blocks of prime main street that the City is on now to be developed (stores, parking garage, walkway to downtown, etc). What are your thoughts in this regard? Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Springwood - I need your help
Well I hope I can convince you two that we are doing exactly the right thing there right now. In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: 6. Decide in 1 month who the winner is. Oh yea - don't forget to to put in the RFP that the bidders must be bonded, have shown development experience (past projects count), cannot be assigned, must post a perfomance bond. 7. Includes real, non-negoiatable time frames for development. 8. Another words, as you are an old AP'er, time to stop the bs and build out Springwood area. fuggadaboutit Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Springwood - I need your help
That's being written right now. That's why I'm talking to you right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Well I hope I can convince you two that we are doing exactly the right thing there right now. Something in writing, that the public may view, would be a start. 35 years there and counting. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Springwood - I need your help
If I recall correctly Uncle Phil's suit was settled, which cleared up a rat's nest of title issues. Thereafter a plan was made by the City to redevelop Springwood. People hated it. They complained that the community was not involved, particulary people on and around Springwood. So the City did what I thought was a great job responding to the people. The City got rid of their own plans. To heed to the wishes of those who wanted community involvement, they advertised a series of events held on Springwood for the community to come out and tell them exactly what they wanted on Springwood. Many, many different ideas were recorded at those events. Anyone at those meetings was encouraged to be part of the Springwood Avenue Advisory Committee, so that the community itself would be devising the plan. From there the committee was formed. It has been meeting for several months now. We are debating the issues, inviting experts to guide us and will at the end make a recommendation to the City Council as to how to best redevelop Springwood Avenue (and yes we are interfacing with Neptune to tie into their redevelopment). The City will then have a formal redevelopment plan drafted, based upon the Committee's recommendations. Certainly I intend to heed the wishes of those I've read here to make the case for competitive bidding for development of the plan. Nation-wide advertising is what I will try to convince the board should be the policy. I like the process because as you can see it has been from the grass roots up. The committee is dominated by West Side people or people with West Side roots. It is in the stage where we are deciding what to recommend to the council, which is why I'm reaching out to this board for your comments, which I obviously intend to take quite seriously, and use your thoughts at the meetings. Keep them coming. Thanks. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Doesn't Uncle Phil still own most of the land?? If so how long in court? So is this plan for all the land some it or in phases. Are there any affordable housing developers interested ? What about recreation? Maybe another water park? Are your R friends in the County involved? That's being written right now. That's why I'm talking to you right now. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Well I hope I can convince you two that we are doing exactly the right thing there right now. Something in writing, that the public may view, would be a start. 35 years there and counting. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Springwood - I need your help
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Move city hall there. Maybe move it to Neptune. :-) LOL Again you're killin' me! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Uncle Phil
I thought I heard a bump. I'm getting out of here. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tommy I think your wrong Uncle Phil is still around. His ghost will haunt us. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: 2nd Ave Property - Eminent Domain
Werner you refuse to recognize your Northern and Western Monmouth overlords. They have the $ and the power, and they will be soaking up all the open space funding. Our only shot at largess is to assist them by accepting our Urban asthetic and continue to further Urbanize, which they are trying to avoid. We're Urban anyway, so grow with it. Forget open spaces in AP. It isn't who we are. Rack'em pack'em and stack'em. It's time to go vertical and build high. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: how about building NOTHING and letting the ocean blow through... of course this would nothing for the city coffers nor the partners. Finally a conclusion that makes sense. The fact is that parcel is PUBLIC PROPERTY and has been since the founding days of AP. In all prior redevelopment plans there was never any development contemplated for that site. Rightly so, just as was the case for the triangle blocks between the Casino and Palace. Dedicated PUBLIC PROPERTY. There is value in open undeveloped space in strategic areas such as these. It adds value to the ajoining developable property and continues the rights of the public dedicated over time. Building on every parcel in the entire waterfront to maximixe density, with no open space buffers is a disaster. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: 2nd Ave Property - Eminent Domain
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: these steps would immediately realize offers of $10 million for the triangle, Don't believe the hype. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: 2nd Ave Property - Eminent Domain
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fshman ddn't bring project enhancement (what project for god dakes?) You're killing me man! I'm dying laughing on the floor over here. I can hear your voice yelling this as you're typing it. You being smart is a given by now but you are entertaining too. That was a bright spot to a pretty tough day. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: for skip and werner...
Who is that clown?!?! Tillie's cousin? I'll run his painted rear-end out of town too! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.asburyboardwalk.com/cards/c14.htm A clown and things saved. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: for skip and werner...
This claim is so outrageous I won't believe it without the source. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: http://www.asburyboardwalk.com/cards/c14.htm A clown and things saved. Nice of you to have C-8 up there. I spoke to someone today who inquired (not from me but from the source) why Metro had not yet demolished C-8. Metro indicated it was afraid that would trigger a lawsuit from me. Well it might, but only after they knock it down. So we have a stand off. They won;t knock it down because I'll sue and I won;t sue until they knock it down. I gave our geniuses in city hall the solution - admit the 2002 plan was not lawfully adopted (which it wasn't) and you only have the 1991 plan, under which C-8 is allowed (no law suit). Kill two birds with one stone. You get to renegotiate a new plan with no fear of breach of contract. Wrong people running the city and advising the city. They can't separate the message from the messenger. I guess their feelings are hurt from the last election. Time to grow up boys. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: for skip and werner...
LOL! No, a rat you'll never be. Here is why I question your source. First I make an assumption: That it is true that they can't build with the present structure because it can't be certified safe (which is what was reported). If that is the case, then the structure comes down whether they rebuild to 4 stories or 16 stories. Since it comes down no matter what, there is no reason to wait. It comes down under both scenarios. There is no reason to wait. As for Metro fearing a subsequent lawsuit, I don't think builders fear lawsuits very much since they tend to be involved in so many. Just my humble analysis. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: This claim is so outrageous I won't believe it without the source. I'll tell you in person. You want to make a rat out of me? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: for skip and werner...
Who is representing Orlando? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: LOL! No, a rat you'll never be. Here is why I question your source. First I make an assumption: That it is true that they can't build with the present structure because it can't be certified safe (which is what was reported). If that is the case, then the structure comes down whether they rebuild to 4 stories or 16 stories. Since it comes down no matter what, there is no reason to wait. It comes down under both scenarios. There is no reason to wait. As for Metro fearing a subsequent lawsuit, I don't think builders fear lawsuits very much since they tend to be involved in so many. Just my humble analysis. Yes, but perhaps why spend another $4 million to demolish. I have no idea if a separate agreement exists beyond what is recorded, however, considering the controversy, I cannot beleive Metro would not have a side agreement that IF, it cannot build what is anticipated, that they get some bread back. If they didn't, tough cookies. Bruno tried to make me feel sorry for Metro. Not working. Anyway, as I said here before, that is Metro's modus operandi, they go ahead without approvals and then when people balk, they say but you can't make us lose the money we spent already. Yes you can. I don;t really care if Metro fears a lawsuit from me. That doesn't pay my bills. BTW, I just got confirmation from the attorney representing the Orlandos that the offer was $330,000 based upon Moliver's appraisal. I am going to ram this up the councils' ass at the next meeting. Shameful. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: for skip and werner...
I figured that. He was the guy that wrote the column about them I posted here. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 bluebishop82@ wrote: Who is representing Orlando? William Ward, Carlin Ward PC in Florham Park. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: for skip and werner...
No the litigation stay never applied. The only way Asbury Partners could claim a stay of their deadlines was if they formally wrote to the Council and invoked the force majure clause. Without such a writing, the clause was never in effect. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote: Wouldn't it now be 6 months from the end of the litigation?? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] 2nd Ave Property - Eminent Domain
I found this column about an Asbury family on an eminant domain website. Does anyone know the Orlando family and know if these numbers are correct? The guy who wrote the column is a land use lawyer who represents condemnees. Here is his column: Eminent Domain in Asbury Park: An offer you can refuse The dictionary defines goniff as a Yiddish word for a ¡§thief.¡¨ Having received an offer for their property from Asbury Partners LLC, the designated developer for the Asbury Park beachfront, Thomas and Donna Orlando now know the meaning of that term. The Orlandos purchased a fully renovated three-family house located two blocks from the beach for $575,000 in September 2004. In December 2005, the Orlandos received the offer and appraisal from Asbury Partners in the amount of $330,000, premised on the appraisal of Donald Moliver. This offer is significantly less than the first mortgage on the property. Under normal circumstances, we would expect Mr. Moliver and Asbury Partners would consider the sale of the subject property and the fact that the beachfront real estate has increased since 2004, not only in Asbury Park but in New Jersey in general. Therefore, a reasonable starting point would be at least ten percent over the purchase price or approximately $630,000. Under normal circumstances, a homeowner would not need a lawyer in an eminent domain action of this sort, because a recent arms-length sale of the subject property is the best evidence of value. But this transaction, like others we¡¦ve seen in Long Branch and Asbury Park, is driven by greed. The developers are dictating the terms, and their objective is to buy the property as cheaply as possible. The municipality is complicit in this arrangement as they will institute eminent domain proceedings to acquire the owner¡¦s site, absent an agreement with the owner. This scenario, while outrageous, is by no means unusual where the unholy alliance is at work., i.e. developers and compliant politicians. The settled rule in New Jersey and other states is that any increase or decrease of the market value of the property acquired or caused by the project of the condemning authority should be factored out of the market value determination. See the following cases: X Jersey City Redevlopment Agency v. Kugler, 58 N.J. 374, 379 (1971); X Housing Authority, Atlantic City v. Atlantic City Expo., 62 N.J. 322 (1973) X Jersey City Redevlopment Agency v. Mack Properties Co. No. 3, 280 N.J. Super. 553, 568-69 (App. Div. 1995); X State, Dept. of Environmental Protection v. S. Nalbone Trucking Co., Inc., 128 N.J. Super. 370, 377 (App. Div. 1974); X United States v. Miller, 317 U.S. 369, 375, 87 L.Ed. 251, 63 S. Ct. 276 (1943). The Moliver appraisal perverts this rule by claiming that all market increases are attributable to projects of the City of Asbury Park and Asbury Partners LLC. This position is unsupported by the reality of prior abortive redevelopment efforts undertaken by Asbury Park. The entire beachfront has been blighted since January 1984. The initial redevelopment efforts by Carabetta and Vaccaro were stopped as a result of Carabetta¡¦s bankruptcy in 1992. Asbury Partners LLC, using money from M.D. Sass Company, purchased Carabetta¡¦s rights in the bankruptcy proceeding and paid the City of Asbury Park $6.5M for tax liens on the properties. These funds were desperately needed by the City of Asbury Park to stave off its own pending insolvency. For these payments Asbury Partners took over Carabetta¡¦s project and developed a new plan. Carabetta, it should be noted, never completed anything. He left a rusting structural steel monument at Ocean Avenue and Second Street for the last fifteen years. Asbury Partners LLC also have not completed anything, although they have grandiose plans. Where then is the enhancement to the real estate market which they claim in Moliver¡¦s appraisal to be attributed to their project? It¡¦s not there. Rather, value in the market in Monmouth County in general and in beachfront properties in particular have dramatically increased in the last ten years. Properties like Mr. Orlando¡¦s ¡V two to three blocks from the beach - are difficult to find. The Orlando¡¦s property is in a quiet residential area, adjoining second Avenue and the lake. This property is valuable because of its location. Asbury Partners LLC, and their ¡§project¡¨ such as it is, have had little impact, yet they use the ¡§scope of the project rule to argue Orlando¡¦s property is worth $330,000 as of December 2005. This is $245,000 less than the Orlandos paid for the property in 2004. Last week, the Appellate Division in the case of DM Asbury Realty LLC et al v. The City of Asbury Park and Asbury Partners LLC unanimously, in a 65-page opinion issued by Judges Conley, Weissbard, and Winkelstein, decided that the property owners numerous issues raised on appeal were without merit. The opinion
[AsburyPark] Re: 2nd Ave Property - Eminent Domain
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who want's to live in Colt's Neck anyhow? It's a 20 minute+ drive back to the beach... Will you hate me if I raise my hand? What a beautiful place! Farms, horses, 10,000 square foot homes on 5 and 10 acre lots. Great schools. Community spirit there is the best I've ever seen. Also rmember the old saying: Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit. You are a died in the wool beach boy. To you 20 minutes from the beach is like living in Kansas (my wife's sentiments exactly. She feels that if you can't walk to the beach you are too far away). However to someone from say Newark, living only 20 minutes away from crashing waves is living at the Shore. I guess it is all perspective. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Negotiations with Asbury Partners
Who are you talking to? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard some advance news of the results of the negotiations. I hope they are wrong, because if that is all there is, it will take another 50 years to develop the waterfront. I heard that Partners is required to renovate the 1st floor of the 5th Ave pavillion within 12 months and then has to show progress every succeeding 12 months. With hope there is more, such as requirements for renovating the Casino, CH et al within a reasonable period. Initially, during the first week of negotiations I heard that the city demanded all one could ask for; that is, completion of renovation of all waterfront buildings within 2.5 years, letters of credit, performance bonds and exclusion of litigation as part of force majuere. If there is not more, then this has been a big waste of time. Say it ain't so. If it is, this is exactly why negotiations should have been opened to the public, or at least detailed updating of the progress. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Moliver and his approach
Dan I wonder if you will favor the board with the names of the litiagion appraisors that convinced you Moliver is a hack. He is one of only 5 appraisors that sits on the Qualifications Board in New Jersey. He certainly does litigation work as you refer to it. Sure, it is true that he runs the department at Monmouth University so I guess it is fair to call him an academic. However, a hack? Are your trusted friends willing to put their names to that opinion? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: Dan, Look for this article written by oliver as per the schools website: (1997) (with Boronico, J. S.) Appraisal Reliability and the Sales Comparison Approach, The Appraisal Journal, (October),Volume LXV, (4), October. pp. 331-336. I had already read it months ago, but thank you. I always size up the opposition. Since I don't know area appraisers, I got the low down on Moliver from NJ litgation appraisers I trust (as well as those who did the Triangle appraisal). Essentially, a bunch of small time hacks. Moliver is an academic, like any other MAI I met who has a Phd. Thse who can't do teach. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Anybody hear of this?
I Googled operation Asbury Park. I found alot including a Wiki. I havn't found yet why they named it that. I must admit the similarity between the Marines laying waste in Afghanistan and looking at the Casino all blown up is scary. I bet that's what inspired the name. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Heshy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Operation Asbury Park http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/0/ab181aca29d7467985256fe a00\ 5af290?OpenDocumentHighlight=2,milks ~Heshy http://www.myspace.com/hesh http://www.myspace.com/hesh http://www.myspace.com/realityshock http://www.myspace.com/realityshock ~ ~ ~ Champagne for my real friends ... real pain for my sham friends! ~Tom Waits Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Moliver and his approach
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not knowing Moliver, for me the biggest negative is that Partners requested him for the condemnations and put it in the RA. Wish I was so lucky. It reminds me of a complaint I've always had about the American Arbitration Association. They are a private company - but get this: It is in a statute that if you are going to arbitrate your PIP coverage in your car insurance, you have to use that company to do it. Can you imagine? Your private business gets written in a statute so the public has to hire you!?! Wish I was so lucky. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Maynard Drops Out of School Board Race
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See...that's how a news story should be written. No opinion, no namecalling, just fact based reporting. Joe for Coastal Bureau Chief Really? No opinion? She has been a Board of Ed member for years, including an ex-President, and the only highlight her career gets is this: Susan Maynard has often been involved in shouting matches with members of the public particularly when the issue at hand is DiSanto or gay or lesbian issues. At one meeting Maynard stormed out of a board meeting when she became too upset with comments from a member of the public. Didn't she storm out when someone began attacking her parenting choices? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Welcome to the Neighborhood!
Welcome to you and your family, Tom! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tom Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was not sure if I should respond to the group on this or directly to Maureen so I errored on the side of caution and included everyone. I am a new homeowner on Monroe Avenue just west of the train tracks with my husband and one of our best friends. My primary residence is in Manhattan but I will be spending quality time in Asbury Park. I did not write a book, but I have written freelance for a few magazines in the past. Hope all is well with everone. Tom _ From: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:22 PM To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Welcome to the Neighborhood! Welcome to Asbury, Tom! Or are just new to the list? Either way welcome. If you are new, where did you come from? Where do you live now; i.e. east, west, north, south? Just being friendly. You didn't write Bonfire of the Vanities, did you? Maureen Maureen Nevin Asbury Radio -The Radio Voice of Asbury Park 88.1FM - 5 Years on the Air!! Asbury's Own Live Talk Show 601 Bangs Avenue Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM or Listen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/ http://www.restoreradio.com/ Call the show 732-775-0821 Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 Speak up - It's America!! In a message dated 3/6/2006 11:30:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: Oh, since I am new to this list, is there any protocol to have a name of the person posting listed on the bottom of it? I personally like to know who is slamming me - it makes it feel better. :) SPONSORED LINKS Asbury http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=msk=Asbury+park+homew1=Asbury+park+homew2 =Asbury+park+njw3=Asbury+park+hotelw4=Asbury+park+foreclosurew5=As bury+pa rk+real+estatew6=Asbury+parkc=6s=140.sig=0vxkxu1RDrB64nxKV8lpRQ park home Asbury http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=msk=Asbury+park+njw1=Asbury+park+homew2=A sbury+park+njw3=Asbury+park+hotelw4=Asbury+park+foreclosurew5=Asbu ry+park +real+estatew6=Asbury+parkc=6s=140.sig=ObXN4NSxwdBhLBP_8hz6eQ park nj Asbury http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=msk=Asbury+park+hotelw1=Asbury+park+homew 2=Asbury+park+njw3=Asbury+park+hotelw4=Asbury+park+foreclosurew5=A sbury+p ark+real+estatew6=Asbury+parkc=6s=140.sig=KL-jtA1nQNVX9sKM5- E8sg park hotel Asbury http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=msk=Asbury+park+foreclosurew1=Asbury+park+ homew2=Asbury+park+njw3=Asbury+park+hotelw4=Asbury+park+foreclosur ew5=As bury+park+real+estatew6=Asbury+parkc=6s=140.sig=aYPrqh5nE_Mo0Q80V Mt5sQ park foreclosure Asbury http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=msk=Asbury+park+real+estatew1=Asbury+park+ homew2=Asbury+park+njw3=Asbury+park+hotelw4=Asbury+park+foreclosur ew5=As bury+park+real+estatew6=Asbury+parkc=6s=140.sig=XnfneXry_jezEvhnM pZyCQ park real estate Asbury http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=msk=Asbury+parkw1=Asbury+park+homew2=Asbu ry+park+njw3=Asbury+park+hotelw4=Asbury+park+foreclosurew5=Asbury+ park+re al+estatew6=Asbury+parkc=6s=140.sig=UeZAmVekwGDPJlXM2nJvNQ park _ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group AsburyPark http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] subject=Unsubscribe * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: FYI - Gay Real Estate Web Sites
It sounds so...exclusionary. ;-) --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Niche marketing and services that serve the gay real estate community has expanded in recent years. GayRealEstate.com has launched an online database of gay and gay-friendly neighborhoods called Gay Ghettos. Jeff Hammerberg, President of Gay Real Estate says, GayGhettos.com is a community based, community built web site which allows the gay and lesbian community access to tell others about their neighborhood and/or search for a gay friendly neighborhood in any city in America. Sites in the network include: GayRealEstate.com GayMortgageLoans.com HomeLounge.com LesbianHomes.com GayRealEstatePlanet.com LesbianRealEstate.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
