Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
How is it if I want to re-instal the first version 0.1? Apparently it does not go like with version EDO 0.6, in any case, I tried with no success: jive_alsa will not substituted automatically! And if I try to substitute jive_alsa manually via SSH by drag drop at user/bin, the following text appears to me: text file busy. If I may remember, the first version EDO 0.1 was for me tonally the best variation: I would like to give it a second chance. Triode, maybe you can you help for me there? I know its possibly not in your interest to see people going to lower the versions, but its all about sound qualities with EDO in this thread. Thanks in advance. SBT coax -- external DAC Jacky's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38257 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
I am considering a NAS instead of using my PC since I would like to be able to play music without having my laptop/PC turned on. At one forum I read someone saying that the sound from a PC/Mac based system was better (less jitter, I expect) than when running from a NAS or USB HDD to the SB Touch. From my point of view a difference (if any) regarding jitter using a NAS vs. a PC would be that the CPU speed and perhaps RAM speed of the PC is higher and thus timing of the data stream could be more precise. However, I am no computer engineer and there could be many factors that make this much more complex than just this. I would like _those_who_have_experience_ with both types of setup to chime in on this - _especially_if_you_have_high_end_audio_gear_. I would also like those with deeper technical expertise to comment on any theoretical/technical explanations for any (or no) difference. My chain in the digital domain is as follows at the moment: FLAC files on an external HDD connected through eSATA to my (Windows) laptop running Logitech Media Server - ethernet - SB Touch (Fidelity Audio digital hardware mod) - Audio-gd Ref 7.1 DAC. I would like to change this to: Files on a NAS running LMS - ethernet - SBT - DAC. Above all: Please don't start a general discussion regarding jitter. Let's assume, that jitter does play a role in digital audio. However, I am open to experiences of no difference between using a NAS and a PC. In fact, I actually hope that there is no difference. LarsHP's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45997 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
There are no relevant technical differences when it comes to delivering data to the SB between PC/Mac and NAS, some varieties of NAS are architecturally nearly identical to your average desktop PC. As long as it is powerful enough to deliver data at a fast enough rate there will be no difference. alfista's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32396 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
There is no difference. Understand that the entire point of the TOUCH is that there is NOTHING about the audio/sound card aspects of the computer or NAS that has anything to do with the audio reproduction of the TOUCH. Much of the discussion about sound quality and computers has been in the context of all the things happening inside the computer, the actions of the sound card (and whether resampling, etc. is going on with the card, etc.). The SqueezeBox approach is to avoid all these potential issues (it is why the original creators of the SB line created these networked music players!). The computer serving the TOUCH doesn't even need a soundcard. It has nothing to do with the TOUCH. All that matters is that the DATA is sent to the buffer of the TOUCH. So the key is that you have a robust network. And if you use a NAS, it needs to be a high enough power NAS to run the program LMS (to handle browsing the music database, serving the data to the TOUCH, etc.). garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
LarsHP wrote: Let's assume, that jitter does play a role in digital audio. Well it definitely does not play a role in the transmission of the data via ethernet (or wifi) between the pc/NAS and the SB. TCP/IP has no timing beyond making sure that enough data gets to the SB on time to avoid dropouts (and keeping in mind the Touch's reasonably large buffer). If you want to assume that jitter plays a role in TCP/IP then you won't have a fact-based discussion. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
LarsHP wrote: NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference? Short answer: No. A little longer answer: Everything written about jitter having any effect in this context is bullshit. Squeezeboxes are asynchroneous wrt to Ethernet. In fact, Ethernet is asynchroneous in its nature. So don't believe the magical thinking and the noise machines who insist on it. thus timing of the data stream could be more precise Ethernet is asynchroneous. There is no data stream, at least not in the way your sentence implies. All the data is transmitted in 'packets' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_frame), and as long as all the packets reach their destination, the order or timing of the packet is irrelevant. As in, mathematically/logically irrelevant. Which, in layman's terms means -completely, utterly, totally- irrelevant. The whole point of the Squeezebox is to turn those discrete packets back into a stream of audio. The Squeezebox is not a sound card. It is a transport. If you want to learn more about this, I suggest you start with Ethernet. Wikipedia has plenty. Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
Do a forum search this has been debated to no end :) the forum is full of them . But the gist of it is as long as the network can fill the players buffer it does not matter it is totally asynchronous . That is in fact one of the main points with having a squeezebox it's sound quality is totally decoupled from the server . The Touch buffers up to 30 seconds of a 16/44 flac so you can test it with no network by simply pulling the plug . And if you are at the end of a playlist the buffer IS full and nothing more is sent from the server . I never heard the last 40 seconds of my files sounding radically better ? Jitter is not a real issue in the network interface. And is often used as a catch all phrase for just about anything mysterius in the audiophile folklore ? Most sources may have jitter on the spdiff and Toslink but very rarely on levels that are close to what's considered audible in controlled tests . especially modern components . Spdiff may be a conduit for electrical noise in some setups . Spdiff is theoretically better but in practice it can be the Tos links that works best in some setups . I'm using the spdiff out to the equipment you see in my signature . I have used A desktop PC pentium4 dual core Win-XP and Ubuntu , A single core via 7 mini itx ClarkConnect linux and Now a HP microserver 36L dual core amd low power cpu with ClearOS linux . I'm using the spdiff out to the equipment you see in my signature . However the faster machine will give a much better experience with user interfaces Pad apps and foremost transcoding . When you shop for a NAS get one with x86 architechture, so thaat SoX and FLAC and LAME will work fast without much strain for the CPU . For example transcoding the ocasional 24/192 file to a Touch or the more common 24/96 files for use with a boom or duet . One of the best tweaks is to not have the PC/NAS close to the hifi system as none of those things are silent (what ever the manufacturer claims ) . Do not use screened ethernet cables as these are a way for noise transmission and ground loops in many cases . Do read some of the old treads . People that are far more knowledgeable than me have gone to great lengths to explain why the server won't matter a tiny bit re sq For enlightenment and fun read this old tread . http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93257-Win-7-Optimisations Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
aubuti wrote: Well it definitely does not play a role in the transmission of the data via ethernet (or wifi) between the pc/NAS and the SB. TCP/IP has no timing beyond making sure that enough data gets to the SB on time to avoid dropouts (and keeping in mind the Touch's reasonably large buffer). If you want to assume that jitter plays a role in TCP/IP then you won't have a fact-based discussion. LarsHP wrote: From my point of view a difference (if any) regarding jitter using a NAS vs. a PC would be that the CPU speed and perhaps RAM speed of the PC is higher and thus timing of the data stream could be more precise. As aubuti correctly points out, there is no aspect of a datastream being precise when it comes to TCP/IP getting the data from the computer/NAS to the TOUCH via eithernet or WIFI. It either arrives or doesn't. If it doesn't, there won't be subtle sound quality differences; rather there will be dropouts, buffering, etc. Be careful when reading internet audiophile forums. Much of the discussion is entirely wrong when it comes to how a squeezebox system works. To be fair, the incorrect info is in many cases a carryover effect from folks assuming the old problems of soundcards inside a computer are still applicable to a SB player. And as I hope you understand now, this is simply NOT the case. p.s. I started with a ReadyNAS duo for my SB server and it worked, but it was painfully underpowered, so things like browsing my music collection (about 70,000 tracks) was painfully slow. Scanning the music was painfully slow (all day versus 30-40 minutes). My vortexbox servers (which are simply low-powered computers without keyboards or monitor) are extremely fast on all accounts. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
aubuti wrote: Well it definitely does not play a role in the transmission of the data via ethernet (or wifi) between the pc/NAS and the SB. TCP/IP has no timing beyond making sure that enough data gets to the SB on time to avoid dropouts (and keeping in mind the Touch's reasonably large buffer). If you want to assume that jitter plays a role in TCP/IP then you won't have a fact-based discussion. As I said - I am no computer engineer, but my statement was regarding timing in the digital domain in general, not certain parts of the digital domain. Thanks to both of you guys for your quick replies. Do you think a ReadyNAS Ultra 2 RNDU2000 will do a good job? As I understand, the NAS should preferably be x86 compatible ... LarsHP's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45997 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
garym wrote: As aubuti correctly points out, there is no aspect of a datastream being precise when it comes to TCP/IP getting the data from the computer/NAS to the TOUCH via eithernet or WIFI. It either arrives or doesn't. If it doesn't, there won't be subtle sound quality differences; rather there will be dropouts, buffering, etc. Be careful when reading internet audiophile forums. Much of the discussion is entirely wrong when it comes to how a squeezebox system works. To be fair, the incorrect info is in many cases a carryover effect from folks assuming the old problems of soundcards inside a computer are still applicable to a SB player. And as I hope you understand now, this is simply NOT the case. p.s. I started with a ReadyNAS duo for my SB server and it worked, but it was painfully underpowered, so things like browsing my music collection (about 70,000 tracks) was painfully slow. Scanning the music was painfully slow (all day versus 30-40 minutes). My vortexbox servers (which are simply low-powered computers without keyboards or monitor) are extremely fast on all accounts. ...and much of the whole debate of digital audio is a carry over from the analog era and don't apply either and is largely made up of misunderstanding basic concepts . And treat any information from TAS or computeraudiophile or similar cult furoms as nonsense Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
LarsHP wrote: Do you think a ReadyNAS Ultra 2 RNDU2000 will do a good job? As I understand, the NAS should preferably be x86 compatible ... There are users here that use the readynas ultra and report excellent results. My understanding is that the readynas ultra is an x86 machine (which is important). garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
and regarding readynas (or almost any NAS), as has been pointed out, even when marketed as very quiet, they are not at all the sort of thing you want to have in the listening room with you (i.e., they are quieter than your lawn mower, but NOT silent). But of course that's the beauty of the SB approach. The server is in some back cabinet, basement, garage, etc. connected via ethernet to your router. Your SB player is next to your stereo, connected via ethernet or wifi. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
LarsHP wrote: As I said - I am no computer engineer, but my statement was regarding timing in the digital domain in general, not certain parts of the digital domain. Thanks to both of you guys for your quick replies. Do you think a ReadyNAS Ultra 2 RNDU2000 will do a good job? As I understand, the NAS should preferably be x86 compatible ... The ultra seems a popular choice . Competitors would be vortexbox, HP proliant microserver . A shuttle or other barebones small PC, some higher end Synology modell . There are a bunch of plug computers and ARM based devices that are popular , if one will sacrifice some performance for the powersaving and can live without transcoding options . x86 or some of the latest arm devices . I think gary had the old ReadyNAS duo ,wich was very slow and had very little ram :-/ As I understand a NAS is more expensive than a barebones diy /vortexbox /microserver but offers other pre-installed features if you like som of the other features that a NAS vendor offers this may be your choice . If it's only for the squeezeboxserver you can get more bang for the buck elsewhere . Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
Mnyb wrote: The ultra seems a popular choice . Competitors would be vortexbox, HP proliant microserver . A shuttle or other barebones small PC, some higher end Synology modell . There are a bunch of plug computers and ARM based devices that are popular , if one will sacrifice some performance for the powersaving and can live without transcoding options . x86 or some of the latest arm devices . I think gary had the old ReadyNAS duo ,wich was very slow and had very little ram :-/ As I understand a NAS is more expensive than a barebones diy /vortexbox /microserver but offers other pre-installed features if you like som of the other features that a NAS vendor offers this may be your choice . If it's only for the squeezeboxserver you can get more bang for the buck elsewhere . yep, I had the old readynas duo. My understanding is that the new version is much better/faster. Mnyb makes a critical point for you. If the reason for the NAS is only serving music to the SB, you don't need the extra expense of the NAS and its extra stuff. This said, I can do lots of NAS type stuff with my Vortexbox Appliance. That is, it holds my music, runs LMS to serve the music, but I can also store any sort of files there that I can transfer to/from other computers on my local network (so I keep all my backup photos, word, excel, etc. files there). The vortexbox drives are mapped to a letter drive on my laptop and I can move files around just like they are on a local harddrive of my laptop. The vortexbox also has the ability to run programs that can deal with serving video files to networked video players (Boxee, etc.). People report good results with using Windows Home Server software on a headless computer as well. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
If you get a has then get a fast one. Reason is that they are such great devices that you will start using them for other things as well. I got a synology 1511+ which is based on a 1,8 Ghz atom processor and I used it (as a test) to simultaneously stream different songs to 3 Squeezebox Boom's 1 Squeezebox classic and one squeezebox transporter. They were playing flac's and mp3's. In the mean time I was streaming a video_TS file to a popcorn hour media player and it was downloading at full speed using Sabnzbd. No issues at all. :-) jp73's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34285 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Jacky wrote: How is it if I want to re-instal the first version 0.1? Apparently it does not go like with version EDO 0.6, in any case, I tried with no success: jive_alsa will not substituted automatically! And if I try to substitute jive_alsa manually via SSH by drag drop at user/bin, the following text appears to me: text file busy. If I may remember, the first version EDO 0.1 was for me tonally the best variation: I would like to give it a second chance. Triode, maybe you can you help for me there? I know its possibly not in your interest to see people going to lower the versions, but its all about sound qualities with EDO in this thread. Thanks in advance. SBT coax -- external DAC I've had this problem a few times and have always solved it by deleting the jive_alsa file first and then dragging and dropping the new one in. Don't know why this seems to happen with the jive_alsa file and not with the other ones, but it does. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone recommend a Cambridge Audio DacMagic...
I'm happy with my Heed CanAmp so will go for the new DacMagic 100 I think - though I can't find the same level of enthusiasm in the reviews as in the previous version. jezbo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9888 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
cfraser wrote: I still gotta say that 0.6 as heard here has something special to it. I don't know how to describe it, but if the sound was an object I might say sophisticated/luxury. It feels very pleasant and personal. I have some doubt about the accuracy of this sound, but I do like being coddled in it so far. Not too hard and not too soft, just right. can hear that overlaid tracks were of different qualities, or were clearly recorded in a different environment. etc. :) I have done extensive comparisons of EDO 0.6 and 0.7 and for the most part agree with your impressions. For me and with my system, EDO 0.6 + TT3.0 + SBGK's settings with buffer at 9 and period count 16 gives the best sound. By best I mean sound that is well balanced across the frequency range, detailed but rich, without too hot a treble, engaging and easy to listen to for hours a time. Quite the high-end performance from a $300 device! I appreciate Triode's skepticism about the improbability of the slight changes in the jive_alsa file having any sound consequences. His are powerful reasons. Still, I find it interesting that some of us seem (underline seem) to experience different sound presentations. Placebo? Expectation bias? Maybe. Maybe not. I listen with Toslink out into my DAC, not USB. Guido F. guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
rgro wrote: I've had this problem a few times and have always solved it by deleting the jive_alsa file first and then dragging and dropping the new one in. Don't know why this seems to happen with the jive_alsa file and not with the other ones, but it does. I have also made exactly this before, however, has failed to me there because I had forgotten the sync order after replacing jive_alsa file. Anyway, thank you rgro- now I hear with version EDO 0.1 back and must confess to have heard the best bass quality (goes lower through my subs) till present. Together with TT 3 and priorities as follows it is a true pleasure: Im using just SPDIF so set USB to default value. Default Buffer 2 -- TT modes PRIOJIVEALSA=45 #PRIOJIVE=0 PRIOSIRQTASKLET0=89 PRIOSIRQHRTIMER=40 PRIOWATCHDOG=36 PRIOLOADAVG=50 PRIODOFPSXCPUTMR=98 PRIOIRQ47=41 PRIOIRQ14=40 PRIOIRQ37=40 PRIOIRQ34=90 PRIOSIRNETTX=40 PRIOSIRNETRX=40 Jacky's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38257 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Jacky wrote: I have also made exactly this before, however, has failed to me there because I had forgotten the sync order after replacing jive_alsa file. I deleted the existing jive_alsa. Copied 0.6 version, changed the file access, then rebooted. Am I missing the sync, Not sure what is this sync step. lake_eleven's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48979 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Powered Speakers Recommendations
Can I add AVI ADM40s to the list. I've just bought a pair and they're extraordinary (I had the ADM9Ts already). Phileas's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20367 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54559 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
lake_eleven wrote: I deleted the existing jive_alsa. Copied 0.6 version, changed the file access, then rebooted. Am I missing the sync, Not sure what is this sync step. When changing files the changes go into a RAM buffer rather than immediately onto the disk (flash in this case). When the buffer gets full it gets written to the disk. Thus if you make changes to files and just unplug the Touch those changes do not get written to the disk. The sync command writes the buffer to the disk, it syncs up the disk to the buffer. So if you make changes and reboot the touch by pulling the plug you MUST use a sync command first, otherwise your changes may not show up (or even worse, partially show up). The sync command is typed at the command line like any other linux command (over your SSH connection with PuTTY or whatever you are using). The reboot command automatically does a sync, but those of us that have been doing unix/linux for a long time have gotten into the habit of typing a sync before rebooting no matter what. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
guidof wrote: I have done extensive comparisons of EDO 0.6 and 0.7 and for the most part agree with your impressions. Can you confirm the same is true between the two jive_alsa's files I attached (which are the same as in the two downloads) For me and with my system, EDO 0.6 + TT3.0 + SBGK's settings with buffer at 9 and period count 16 gives the best sound. By best I mean sound that is well balanced across the frequency range, detailed but rich, without too hot a treble, engaging and easy to listen to for hours a time. Quite the high-end performance from a $300 device! Please restart the squeezeplay application with: /etc/init.d/squeezeplay restart Can you confirm the actual buffer sizes this is using (see posts on this thread on what the debug which is shown the the audio device opens means) - I think you will find the period time somewhat less than 9, but I want to know if you see this being different in the two cases with the differnet jive_alsa files. (if you do I will remain skeptical that this means you can hear a difference!) Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
JohnSwenson wrote: When changing files the changes go into a RAM buffer rather than immediately onto the disk (flash in this case). When the buffer gets full it gets written to the disk. Thus if you make changes to files and just unplug the Touch those changes do not get written to the disk. The sync command writes the buffer to the disk, it syncs up the disk to the buffer. So if you make changes and reboot the touch by pulling the plug you MUST use a sync command first, otherwise your changes may not show up (or even worse, partially show up). The sync command is typed at the command line like any other linux command (over your SSH connection with PuTTY or whatever you are using). The reboot command automatically does a sync, but those of us that have been doing unix/linux for a long time have gotten into the habit of typing a sync before rebooting no matter what. John S. Thanks John. I use tt -rbt. lake_eleven's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48979 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
guidof wrote: I have done extensive comparisons of EDO 0.6 and 0.7 and for the most part agree with your impressions. I have not done extensive listening with 0.6, mostly with 0.5 and then 0.7 when it arrived; 0.6 came and went so fast that I never even got to install it before 0.7 was there... I have only had a few days with 0.6 myself. I have not really tried any of the non-default EDO options except the prevent CPU low-power mode thing, nor seriously tried combining TT3.0 and EDO since the last few EDO versions. Yet. We seem to either have similarly-responding gear, similar hearing, or similar taste. Some might say similar delusions. :) Based on our previous TT3.0 comments about configs. I have different gear than you, except the same TT and BDP which don't enter into this equation. My BDA-1 DAC buffers and reclocks inputs (no upsampling) so you'd think that theoretically that particular interface shouldn't have an effect with EDO versions...but I don't know positively. I do listen to the Maggie 1.6s in what is technically the near field though. Touch-BDA-1-BP26-4B-SST2-Maggie 1.6/SVS PC13Ultra cfraser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48869 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
cfraser wrote: My BDA-1 DAC buffers and reclocks inputs (no upsampling) so you'd think that theoretically that particular interface shouldn't have an effect with EDO versions...but I don't know positively. Galvanized isolation? Differences in noise created and passed on by the touch? Who knows. Jeff Flowerday's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
I don't know that I have a high-end system, more mid-end by some people's standards - Cambridge Audio 840C CD/DAC, Naim Nait XS and Dynaudio Contour 1.3mk2. There is no difference in sound quality between using a ReadyNAS Sparc-based NAS, an atom-based mini-pc or an Intel Core-i5 laptop. As others have explained above, all are capable of delivering the TCP-IP data packets to the SB Touch, subject only to a reliable network connection. Having said that, now I only use the ReadyNAS as storage, and run the server on my mini-pc, simply to speed up the UI and libary scans, and allow the possibility of real-time transcoding of flac to mp3 to make my collection available over the internet. The Atom-based mini-pc is more than capable of these tasks, as well as running XBMC connected to an HD TV. If you do go down the NAS route, get a powerful one, for the reasons others have given above, but not to improve sound quality, as it won't make any difference. If I was starting from scratch, I'd get the mini-pc and a large USB disk, and forget about the NAS. darrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13460 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
^ I thought it *was* galvanically isolated. Maybe not though, just the usual transformers. I do not have any quality glass Toslink cables anymore, so can't really test that option fairly (it sounds dead with the best Toslink I still do have). However, we are only comparing different versions of EDO, presumably everything else remains the same in our comparison systems. And in my case comparing 3 versions that are not *that* different code-wise for how I'm using them (S/PDIF). The diffs I'm hearing don't seem noise-related to me. I run the Touch linear PS and BDA-1 and BP26 off balanced power too, but that's for different noise. It's a mystery to me, just like how some seemingly minor changes of less-critical parameters with TT3.0 had large effects. It got to the point (fooling around) that I had to wonder if file size and how the Touch handles files was making some diff. cfraser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48869 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
darrell wrote: If I were starting from scratch, I'd get the mini-pc and a large USB disk, and forget about the NAS. I agree completely. You can get a lot more processing power per dollar (or pound or euro) with a small form factor pc than with a NAS. The pc also tends to be more flexible when it comes to choosing OS, changing hardware, etc. In addition, you often get better power management with a pc, so that even if the pc draws more watts than the NAS (and that is an _if_ because some NASs are power hungry), the total power consumption can be less by using suspend/hibernate/shutdown and wake-on-LAN. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Triode wrote: Can you confirm the same is true between the two jive_alsa's files I attached (which are the same as in the two downloads) Please restart the squeezeplay application with: /etc/init.d/squeezeplay restart Can you confirm the actual buffer sizes this is using (see posts on this thread on what the debug which is shown the the audio device opens means) - I think you will find the period time somewhat less than 9, but I want to know if you see this being different in the two cases with the differnet jive_alsa files. (if you do I will remain skeptical that this means you can hear a difference!) Will do and let you know. Guido F. guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
I've done a comparison of LMS on the following 1) ReadyNas Duo - LMS 7.7.x, RAM 1GB 2) Dell Latitude E6420, Win7, 8GB (network drive to ReadyNas Duo) Squeezebox touch with TT3.0 installed all running on wired network I find the Squeezebox sounds better with LMS running on Duo. Sounds clean and more dynamic kiat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30044 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NAS versus PC - any sound quality difference?
LarsHP wrote: As I said - I am no computer engineer, but my statement was regarding timing in the digital domain in general, not certain parts of the digital domain. Then I really don't understand why you specified a certain part of the digital domain, i.e., -From my point of view a difference (if any) regarding jitter using a NAS vs. a PC would be that the CPU speed and perhaps RAM speed of the PC is higher and thus timing of the data stream could be more precise.- Jitter downstream exists, though whether it is audible to humans (using modern equipment) is a matter of debate. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95276 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
