Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
d6jg wrote: > Well reasoned/put Pablo. > Shame about the response. The response wasn't to him IDIOT Did you see me quote his text and respond to him? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
mlsstl wrote: > > You seem unable to understand that your perception does not constitute a > scientific fact in and of itself. l. No IDIOT, I never said my perception = a scientific FACT. I said my perception is my perception PERIOD. I said repeatedly that science can not prove my perception yet it is real to me Dark Energy.Matter can not be measured either, only we can measure directly a very small % of realitygood thing scientist are not idiots too, otherwise they might say "Hey we can't measure the 80% +/- of whats missing so lets just say it does not exist" You fools think you are so smart...but you are really far more stupid in a basic common sense level than a child. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
pablolie wrote: > > You started a discussion about "which chip sounds better?", which given > the fact there isn't a universal test bench design that allows you to > interexchange the chips within the same overall system makes little > sense. Yes, I do read the article speculating that supposedly the latest > SABRE chip is the best and what not, but I don't really think it'll make > a big difference to my ears. Speakers? Hell yeah. An amplifier that > matches them? Sure. Better source material? Bring it. Digital stuff? > Meh. Cables? Ha. Again I will post plainly and clearly. Yes I started a discussion about "which dac chip sounds better TO ME" and asked if anyone had a dac chip that sounds better to them. I posted my perceptions and ASKED if anyone experienced a perception which lead them to have a favorite dac chip. Is this not plain to see? I made it plain and clear in my initial thread. I never said this chip WILL sound better to YOU or made any claims that this chip WILL or MUST sound better to everyone. My exact words..."But my favorite is the PCM1704UK." Key word >MY< An appropriate response would be No I do not have a favorite dac chip because >I<-- that's I think they all sound the same. In fact I think .. Say what you feel, say what you thinkeven explain why but do not tell someone or attack someone for thinking and feeling or perceiving. Don't you people know how to have an adult conversation? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
And some of you stupid arseholes what to claim to be educated and intelligent...HUH what kind of degree do you have? A Masters in being a closed minded fool? Well I'm an RN...I save lives for a living...DAILY. What one of you idiots can claim to have saved a life even once? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
You are are all sick F***KS and not to mention STUPID FU**KS to hold, and cling to the belief that you have the right to ridicule and badger someone for sensing ANYTHING with their own senses. In the year 2016 we still have such primitive and stupid mindsetsits ridiculous edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
pablolie wrote: > I didn't join the discussion, but the way I read things is that you > misread disagreement with a personal attack. In Internet discussions, we > have to learn to be told with people vehemently disagreeing and telling > us we're utterly wrong. > > Personally - I am somewhere inbetween. I think the audio hobby is > irrational by definition, and we all have our pockets of craziness to > define ourselves as "audiophiles" and read this forum. 99% people out > there are perfectly happy with their smartphone and the free earbuds > that shipped with them. I for one fully enjoy merely visual improvements > to my system, and freely admit I enjoy it more if it pleases not only my > ears, but also my visual and tactile senses. I don't claim I can hear a > difference, but I simply enjoy it more, and psychoacoustics are relevant > to the overall experience. I am pretty sure my favorite jazzband sounds > better to me in a suave Manhattan cafe than in a Bronx trash disposal > site. There's nothing wrong with psychoacoustics. They matter. But > scientifically speaking - we should be careful about making claims that > an experiment is reproducible. There are tons of audio tests out there > that show it all comes down to 50% chance (basically, accident). But I > for one have never confused ABC tests with simple musical enjoyment. Read this carefully. I...Nor AnyoneNEEDS to be careful of claiming they perceived ANYTHING with THEIR OWN, I repeat THEIR OWN * T H E I R O W N ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! * senses. Every human being on the face of the PLANET HAS A RIGHTto say they "FEEL" anything about anything. NOBODY has a right to tell anyone to dismiss what their body perceives as reality.PERIOD IF ANY HUMAN BEING READING THIS CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THIS THEY ARE SICK. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MPD / Squeezelite Comparo
drmatt wrote: > You may be confusing me with someone else.. I don't recall having any > friends around here.. ;) I want you to post it so I can explain why > it's wrong, yeah. But if you had changed kernel parameters they would > effect both players for a start.. but you know that, and this was just a > vehicle to score a point. You have a right to be pissed off about the > treatment round here, but it doesn't make it better by making stuff up. Yes the kernel parameters DO effect the sound to both SL and MPD on both RPI and BBB...as well as miniITx MB that I have. For now I am going to keep my info to myselfdo more tests and confirm my own findings. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106537 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MPD / Squeezelite Comparo
You are all sickening, to not be willing or able to communicate with anther adult human being like you have some sense is crazy. Look back at the way you attacked me and your so called justifications. No wonder this world is so messed up. Not one of you have the common decency to start a conversation that promotes dialogue, rather you attackgrown men none the less. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106537 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
You are all sickening, to not be willing or able to communicate with anther adult human being like you have some sense is crazy. Look back at the way you attacked me and your so called justifications. No wonder this world is so messed up. Not one of you have the common decency to start a conversation that promotes dialogue, rather you attackgrown men none the less. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MPD / Squeezelite Comparo
Really as human beings you all should be ashamed of yourselves and as Audiophiles you should be ashamed, if you are religious to any extent you should be ashamed as well...the way you all treat people is deplorable and against any level of normalcy for a human being. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106537 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
I have to say, you all showed your true colors too soon. Like a bunch of Vampires waiting for a real human to show up so you can pounce on himyou pose as Audiophiles, waiting in an otherwise dead forum for people to wonder in and post so you can attack. Why don't you Mud-Ears go and make your own forum? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MPD / Squeezelite Comparo
drmatt wrote: > Pls do share, if you are the sharing kind Smells like Bait and coming from you and your fake audiophile friends I can bet it is bait. You want me to post so you can attack me NahI enjoy my sound, you can't hear anyways so it makes no difference. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106537 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
I laid down the facts. You people are all TROLLS. I proved it and you proved it. Here you are posing as Audiophiles, waiting for true Audiophiles to post so you can pounce on them with ridicule. You are all FAKE and at least one of you is a double posting liar. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Julf wrote: > Yes, reality check: In medicine, placebos work for 98% of the > population. Does that make those who know it is just a sugar pill > "crazy"? So I go to an asylum and the people there say those 99% outside are crazy. Okay settle down and take your med... edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
arnyk wrote: > Then why are you wasting everybody's time including your own posting > here? > > > > I'd be willing to bet that very few audiophiles think that technical > ignorance and belief in placebo effects are what makes the audio hobby > what it is, yet those are all you have offered us here. I post here so that FINALLY there can be good content here, you should thank me edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
sfraser wrote: > I don't hear differences in ethernet cables on my system, that's why i > asked you. I am trying to isolate the conditions under which you hear > these differences. I can't recall, but I do believe there are > differences in how they spec'd the grounding requirements in the various > CAT cables. I suspect you have a faulty P/S in one of your components > which may make it more susceptible to noise which is explaining why you > hear things differently. Yes of course, my heart is faulty edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
sfraser wrote: > What about in series? > > Try connecting several ethernet switch's in series, (not in a loop > however!) with the SB directly connected to switch one and the LMS > server connected to switch 3. Swap out the cable connecting the LMS and > switch 3 with your best sounding cable and let me know. Sorry I don't have several switches. I take it you've already done this. What did you hear? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MPD / Squeezelite Comparo
drmatt wrote: > Now you are really avin a larf. Game over. Yes game is over now. I've finally narrowed down which kernel parameters to tweak and by how much. Audio narvana has been obtained. ;) edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106537 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
sfraser wrote: > Hi Ed, I did not run away , I was on a conference call with customers, > imagine..discussing Ethernet Satellites funny enough. Anyway you > never answered my earlier question regarding if you feel you could hear > the difference between 2 music file"s that had been transferred from > host to host via two different Ethernet cables/networks and THEN played > back. > > I am interested in your response. Do I think I could hear a difference? Who knows. Unless you are referring to say a file from Spotify for example sounding different at one geographic location vs another. Could is something I can't comment on edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Wombat wrote: > I troll this forum for 10 years now and wonder how other members after > your first posts still thought there is anything worthwile coming from > you. Actually there is nothing worthwhile coming from this Forum. Why even join an audio forum if you DON"T believe in any of the elements that make the hobby what it is? Like an Atheist becoming a member of the Catholic church edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Mnyb wrote: > The topc was not i2s transfer methods but ethernet networking . > > Yes i do own this gear . Meridian is quite objektive in their designs , > they have gone wrong with MQA and hirez. > They are not in the voodoo anf magic as other brands, They ste mostoy > rigth and maybe 5 times to expensive . > > But , thier where alone back then to have a reasonable take on an audio > system. Namely active speakers with digital xover and returningbthe > signal to analog as late as possible in the chain it makes perfect sense > . > > They are not perfect but as they say in the land of the blind the one > eyed is king . > > Compate cary and audionote that can build stuff that costs a fortune and > performe worse than a chinese 50$ DVD player Yes I know what the topic is about. But I am asking YOU why did you purchase gear that uses a transfer method that you don't believe in? MQA is nothing more than audiophile gimmick. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
I see armyk/sfraser ran away. How childish to post under two different monikers. And to get BUSTEDLMAO¡!!! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Wombat wrote: > Shit, you got me! I am not a Wombat. You're a troll, go back into your mother's basement. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Wombat wrote: > edwardthern, better check your blood sugar, Troll-adiposity in sight > from feeding! Are you another one of sfraser/arnyk's fake persona? Sounding more and more like this place is a small den of trolls. Deaf trolls edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
arnyk wrote: > Wrong again. You made the claim that you were perfectly aware of the > ability of my audio gear to discern certain things. But, it is now > obvious that you have no idea what it is. > > Edward, that makes you either delusional or a liar. Which is it? You grabbed my text from a post to someone else...post#53 to sfraser LIAR edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
arnyk wrote: > Absolutely false. > > Sorry, many but now you are just stacking up more evidence that you are > making this up as you go along. > > We can add to your list of faults that your rendition of the history of > audio is just as error-filled as your comments about current > technology. > > One of the problems with early tubes as used in early radio receivers > what their very limited power handling ability. I've seen the > equipment in museums and private collections, and in some cases actually > used it. > > If I thought you were intellectual enough to read and comprehend, I'd > give you links on the web, but I've already been disabused of any hope > of that actually working. Which person are you posting as? Sfraser or armyk? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
arnyk wrote: > If you can't immediately provide an accurate list of the gear in my > audio system, you are then a proven liar. So you take a sentence I posted to someone else sfraser and try to make it seem like I posted it to you. Such a childish trick, are you insane? Or are you posting as two people!! Busted!¡ edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
arnyk wrote: > Another example of your abject ignorance. The answer is as others have > already correctly posted. Tubes were first applied as amplifiers in > radios, which was the audio of the day. Wrong don't be a sheep all your life. Tubes first application was for amplifying power. It was years later that radio picked it up edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
arnyk wrote: > The more knowlegable one is, the more they can explain. > > One of the things that can explain a lot of perceptions, is an > understanding of sensory illusions and perceptual bias. > > > > Absolutely - Ever hear of the Placebo Effect? Apparently not. I guess > it was never part of your apparently minuscule education. You sound like a troll Fyi most all of us college educated people realize that the more we learn the more it is we don't know. Only the day dumbest people think they know more and more as they learn. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MPD / Squeezelite Comparo
I noticed that by changing some kernel parameters I was able to bring out the high frequency information in MPD to sound more like SL. How ever the low end slam and rhythm of MPD stayed. Great!! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106537 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
I really hope all of you guys are atheist. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
sfraser wrote: > Question: Do you feel if music content (files) are transferred from one > storage location to another, over an Ethernet network and played back at > a later date that there would be a difference in sound depending on the > Ethernet cable used in the Ethernet network during the initial transfer? I feel that my senses are able to pick up on a lot of things that I can't explain. How about you? Can you explain why I and countless others hear a difference when different Ethernet cables are used? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
sfraser wrote: > You realize the increased BW and reduced crosstalk of the different CAT > cables can in no way be directly utilized by the music ? It simply > allows for a higher signalling rate which increases the error free > frames per second . The music is simply payload within the IP packet > that is contained within the ethernet frame. 10/100 Mbps Ethernet has a > data rate that is way more than capable of delivering PCM music. > Utilizing cables capable of error free 10G Ethernet in no way > improves "the sound" over error free 10M Ethernet. If your home network > is a 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet, the equipment cannot utilize the > increased "BW" of a ethernet cable capable of 10G ethernet rates. 2 > different cable types delivering the frames error free between two > hosts do not add or subtract anything from the IP payload, the music > content is delivered at exactly the same rate or mbps, regardless if it > is 10/100/1000M or 10G Ethernet and or Ethernet cables. > > If you like I can demonstrate this with lab results, I actually have a > LMS and squeezebox in our lab. No offence but benchmark and Bryson are know for their dry, sterile and hard sound. You'd never hear a difference with your gear. Lab results are fine, but I have never been able to hear with my eyes, so reading results doesn't help much. But you can send your results to AQ et.al. maybe you can sue for false advertising. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Mnyb wrote: > I have personally brougth several AQ cables for recycling instead of > selling them second hand after my fling with audiophilia ended. > > Sugest we bash thier doors down, they are a fraud . > > Byw the topic here is do different ethernet cables thats up to spec > makes a difference in sound when used for an Ethernet conection . They > don't. > > I2S was never meant to be outside the circuit board normally that signal > should travel centimetres . > It may have completely diffrent requirements . > > Applying ethernet cables to other things is sometimes a good idea, but > that's another topic . > The cable has high bandwidth and low impedance so it can be a good match > for other things if you design the circuit for that. > I mean it's ubiquitous and costs nothing . Special I2S cable migth not > even exists. Seeing that you don't believe in audiophile I2s transfer methods why would you buy a product that uses it? If you even own the great in your signature Which I doubt edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Julf wrote: > Yes, because I2S is intended to connect IC's inside a single device > (usually on the same circuit board). It was never intended as a solution > for connecting boxes (and thus needing a cable). Were vacuum tubes initially designed for audio? Hm edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
I just realized... You people are handicapped. Some people have handicaps that prevent them from seeing, walking, or climbing stairs You people have handicaps that prevent you from hearing. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Reality Check. The greater part of the Audiophile world [people who have purchased cables] claim to hear a difference. You people represent a very small part of the whole who 'do not' hear a difference. We the Audiophiles, acknowledge aspects of reality [in the form of sound] that you do not. Instead of accepting the fact that your senses can not pick up certain aspects of reality...you get mad and insult, badger, and accuse the MAJORITY of being crazy. Yes you 1% are sane and us 99% are crazy.LMAO!!! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
You guys are getting deeper and deeper into the land of nonsense. You don't feel the slight bit embarrassed? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Julf wrote: > "... when used in the wrong place (as I2S connection)". Well played! You > must be rolling on the floor with laughter. So your claim is manufacturers are wrong for using Ethernet and HDMI cables to transmit I2S? You figure you have a better idea and know more than they do, okay then develop your own cable for i2s and tech the world how is done..lmao! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
As always you guys like to go off on tangents that make no difference to the real subject. Subject = Ethernet cables can affect sound quality I suggest you all go beat down the doors of Audioquest, WireWorld and every consumer who has purchased their products and have noticed an improvement. Either that or get your ears cleaned so YOU TOO can hear a difference. Next thing Blind people will be badgering people with sight claiming colors don't exist. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
arnyk wrote: > You're making the logical mistake that just because a change was made, > your hobby horse unfounded assertions are validated. > > The actual reasons for the upgrade are widely publicized and well-known > and not what you say, Edward. > > http://www.cablinginstall.com/articles/2013/05/how-cat8-will-solve.html > > "What Category 8 copper cabling will do for the data center is let them > transport data four times faster on essentially the same type of cable > they now use, says Sterling Vaden, chair of TIA 42.7, the TIA > subcommittee on copper cabling systems. That makes great sense > application-wise and economically, because the intended data rate being > developed by IEEE is 40-Gb, 4 times faster than 10GBase-T, using the > same or less power per port, which has an unofficial target of less than > 2 Watts. > > So Edward, do we attribute this major discrepancy between your claims > and the actual facts to your ignorance of the true facts or a desire to > win the argument by means of deception? Do you usually go though out your day being wrong so much? 1) High band width is not the ONLY reason but it is a major benefit. 2) Just because something was improved for reason "A" does not mean effects can not be seen elsewhere. Next!!! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
drmatt wrote: > You know very well that the standard was improved in order to support > longer cable lengths at gigabit speed and to accommodate incoming > standards such as 10 gigabit. The goalposts moved, in other words. You > know this, you are choosing to bait now. If you "Know This" then why can't you connect the dots? Cable lengths did not increase, companies etc. still use the same cable lengths they used before. However the standard changed to support "Current" cable lengths with better performance. The "Goalposts" did not move, buildings did not get taller and they don't use Cat cable for Intercontinental data, even if they did, the continents didn't move either. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
drmatt wrote: > Can't say I've noticed this .. ;) That does not surprise me...LOL edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
drmatt wrote: > But CAT5 provides lossfree packet delivery when used within > specification (i.e. short enough lengths). Lossless, without requiring > retransmit. But, but, but.lol No buts, loose free or not the cable and standard was IMPROVED. IMPROVED. therefore loose free or not, packet delivery is IMPROVED. by you thinking there is no need to improve the standard when either way no changes in packets can be verified. Well obviously the Cat standards committee and millions of others say you are wrong. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
drmatt wrote: > Correct, good point. This is therefore similar to saying that SPDIF > cables sound different. More open to debate than Ethernet, but still, a > push. Because spdif cables DO sound differentLOL You people are so funny edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
I see a pattern. A bunch of angry people with avg gear and poor hearing hating on people with better gear and good hearing. You can't hear it so you want to see it via measurements. Fact is, you can't even hear it when measurements are different. For example cat5 vs cat6 there were improvement in bandwidth, overall loss, and better signal to noise ratio per the STANDARD. so clearly they measure different, yet the mud ears got mad when people heard a difference. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Julf wrote: > This is a perfect example of the kind of posting that makes me wonder > about your motives for posting. They are so calculatingly stereotypical > that it almost seems like their only reason is to try to provoke a > reaction. I don't care what you think, myself and lots of other people love good gear and can appreciate differences in sound of quality cables. If it pisses you off that you can't hear don't blame us... edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?
Archimago wrote: > Oh my. Wireworld Cat8 ethernet cables for sound quality now!? > http://www.audiostream.com/content/wireworld-starlight-cat8-ethernet-cable > > Interesting comment/question by "Solarophile" about TCP error > correction. He should have a look at this: > http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/05/measurements-music-servers-possibly.html > > I see no justification that ethernet error plays a role in sound quality > over a gigabit network even with an inexpensive ODROID-C2 SBC; much less > the powerful laptop the guy was using! Even transferring with UDP over 6 > hours, there was barely any issue with error in the packets. Don't see > how/why anyone should worry about TCP transmission. > > Alas, I would respond but the site doesn't seem to appreciate a more > objective approach to things that might be at odds with the faith that's > preached (ie. banned!)... Go figure... Then there's of course all the > hand wringing about noise and needing linear power supplies. Sheesh, yet > not one of those folks can provide an example of the noise or power > supply superiority. All words. Truly unbelievable! > > Happy December, folks! I use a audioquest Ethernet cable for i2s makes all the difference in the world over standard cable. Reaches much deeper into the music, more of everything. Of course you need quality gear and the ability to hear well to appreciate these things. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
At this point I'm going to take the high road and leave you people to your unrealistic views of life. Truly a monkey can act like a human to dinner extent but those intellect will never reach that beyond a monkey. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
arnyk wrote: > In what alternative universe? > > Begs the quesiton, why post your perceptions in a public forum? If > there is no presumption that people will comment in them, then to do so > is like standing on top of a mountain surrounded by empty space and > shout your theses. > > > > > False. In reality the steak only tastes better to you. Why is that of > interest to anybody else? > > What you've done is ascribe some general characteristic, namely better > taste to the steak. You comment may be of interest to others who are > looking for tasty steaks. And, steaks can have flavor properties that > are of more general interest such as the taste of a properly-aged but > not rancid steak or one that is tender and has good mouth feel but is > not pasty, mushy, or tough. > > OTOH as stated we don't know what you are looking for in a steak. You > may be looking for a steak that tastes just like the one that your aunt > Marsha served you in 1998. Also, bias affects the flavor of food, often > quite profoundly. My family and I have done a lot of backwoods camping > and found that food that is a joy to taste after a day outside canoeing > and portaging tastes pretty mediocre as a Thanksgiving dinner. > > The bottom line is that a claim that a personal opinion is sacrosanct is > false. It may be sacrosanct or not. > > In the domain of audio, many people have experimented with > bias-controlled testing and found that many components do not audibly > color the sound at all. In the world of steak, this is like a steak that > has no flavor at all. In a reproduction system this is highly desirable > even though it would make a poor steak - and that is where the > comparison breaks down. > > *Preferences are meaningless if there are no differences*, and in audio > no audible differences is not only possible, it is commonplace with many > categories of components and DACs are a common case of that. > > So thanks, for the hearty laughs at your expense with your elaborate > descriptions of your preferences for audio gear that in fact you can't > tell apart by sound quality. But like most people, our interest in that > sort of futile prattle is limited, and enough is enough. You people are really helping me to understand the type of people who gather here Not the type of people I'd normally keep company with Very low class. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Julf wrote: > And others have the right to question the causes of that perception. Wrong! I do not have the right to question (say you are wrong) anything you perceive with your senses. If you say this steak tastes better than that one, this flower smells better than that flower, this person's voice sounds better than that person etc. You are right to feel that way. This simple fact should be obvious. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Julf wrote: > To quote yourself: > > > > If you go back to the beginning of the thread, you'll notice that after > some light-hearted joking not directed at anyone specific, and some > fact-based and balanced responses, there was this one: > > > > That was the point where things went downhill. > > > > Perhaps a case of 'projection' > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)? The golden rear comment was obviously a joke. Who in their right mind would be offended by that our take that serious? Another weak attempt to point the finger. Face it your attacks were unjustified, and yes they were attacks. Bottom line is people have the right to voice their opinion on their on subjective perception. Which was my optional post. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
edwardthern wrote: > Wrong! > > The message I posted was on topic and it was you people who attacked > me > > Be a man and take responsibility for your attack, don't try and switch > the blame and take the female victims role. Yes I did say Sheep, I call it like I see it. Very few of you posted in ways that would create an atmosphere of discussion, rather instead you post with an argumentative, demeaning attitude that puts people on the defense. Then when someone fights back you run and cry Troll. Sheep in the sense that there seems to be some obvious leaders and followers. Leaders try to make strong attacks while the followers make small little jabs here and there. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Julf wrote: > "A troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting > arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or > off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, > chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an > emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic > discussion, often for the troll's amusement." > > > > I rest my case... Wrong! The message I posted was on topic and it was you people who attacked me Be a man and take responsibility for your attack, don't try and switch the blame and take the female victims role. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
d6jg wrote: > A heard of sheep. > Was that a deliberate play on words? Nope that's just my phone's spell check You wouldn't be trolling me would you? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Julf wrote: > At this point I think we can all agree edwardthern is a troll. > > > > A troll that actually knows there really aren't any moderators around > any more. > > This might be one of the few justified cased of an ignore list entry. No I am not a troll, calling me one is a weak and lame tactic. "We can all agree"who are you? Did I stumble upon a farm of sheep? Are you one of the leaders of the heard? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Jeff07971 wrote: > I accept your respectfull dissagreement :) > > I had actually drafted a long response but found myself agreeing with > you in all aspects ! :) > > So I'll bow out ! Don't let him bully you into bowing out. Audiophiles, Audiophools or who ever has a right to comment on what they hear and what they like. Message boards all over the net [esp audio forums] are over run with these bit-r-bits and measurements mean everything people. They attack like a bunch of sharks. No I don't feel bad for posting the order in which I like Dac chips based off my perception. No I won't be bullied into backing down and recanting what I perceive to hear. In many ways "Audiophile" means people who "think" they hear differences in many things for many reasons ie power cords, IC's and yes even software or operating systems. No just because you have been here forever and have over 10K posts does not mean you out rank my own senses. He doesn't want people to Google into this thread and think you can have the freedom to express their feelings about product X without measurements to back it upto bad. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Any more propeller heads here? Go down the hall to the right and discuss your science please. This thread is about listening to music. People here have the right to express what their senses perceive. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
garym wrote: > In the words of your first grade teacher, "" Science class is down the hall...bye! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
garym wrote: > Huh? I just made the point that personal music preference is NOT a > science. Perhaps improving your reading comprehension would improve your > educability regarding the science and engineering of music > *reproduction* technology. You're in the wrong thread then buddy. This topic is about listening to music. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
garym wrote: > The evidence burden falls upon the person making the claim. You've > provided no valid evidence for any of your claims. See: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot > > That said, one is always free to enjoy their own subjective "truths" as > long as they don't harm others. If you like one DAC more than another, > you're free to think whatever you want. But we're talking about science > and engineering here. Not opinions.** > > **Lots of people post opinions where opinions matter on this forum and > there are no arguments. For example, people post opinions about what > sort of music they like, which artist's albums are their "best", etc. > These are the areas where subjective opinions truly are OK. There is > little in the way of science and engineering that can tell me which > period of Bob Dylan music I prefer the most that is generalizable to a > larger population. > > Note: others have pointed out in this forum that the audiophilia > disease (denial of science and engineering) that has affected many in > this hobby does in fact do harm. It is a tip of the larger societal > problem where we now have many people who act as if science doesn't > matter and all opinions are "equal" regardless of source (expertise, > evidence, etc.). Since when did listening to music become a science? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
mlsstl wrote: > You've got a straw man argument. > > Subjective opinions are perfectly valid -- but ONLY for the one person > who expressed them. Unlike repeatable facts, they are not automatically > transferable to others. This is easily demonstrated by the incessant > debates among subjectivists about "the best" this or that on any audio > web site. > > The objection centers only around the irony of the endless refusal of > subjectivists to admit that their opinion has been influenced in any way > by non-audio subjective factors. The vast majority of people share the same subjective opinion. Anyone can read reviews from various products, in this case I will stick with the Audiogd Dacs. General consensus among most everyone that I have read are the same relating to the sound signature of the Sabre, PCM1704 and Wolfson Dacs. All three share the same topology and output stagesmeaning that the only discernible difference is the Dac chip. This whole topic points to a larger more worrisome issue. This is the hardness and rigidity of human nature and how they respond to others with vastly different perspectives. Subjective opinions being valid ONLY for the individual perceiving the difference may be true, however, the worrying part is others being unwilling to verify this perception [out of spite, hate or other reasons]...this is to say, yes YOU or anyone could listen to the same Dacs in question and report back their perceptions...if they are brave enough and honest enough. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Mnyb wrote: > Yes you did a DBT . But there must be something wrong . > > Its about probability. > > Some parameter is off I did not do the test with you . > > That claim is very very improbable, if all conciviable parameters where > the same and the output really was bit perfect . > > By that i mean that there is no mechanism that could really change the > sound of the conected DAC . > > Its not *you* these kind of cliams come all the time from every > archetypal audiophile out there . > > Almost everything you have claimed as audiophile truths in our forum has > been thoroughly debunked decades ago . > There realy is nothing new. > > Fantastic claims require very ver solid evidence . > > As I told you I sympathise. I been like you a decade ago and i was also > convinced every bizarre audiophile tweak I did to my system made a real > differences , because i could "hear" it . Okay, you win. Not that I agree with you, I still think you are wrong, but I conceit to going back and forth on this subject. Sorry I can't unhear what I heard, even if I did see pages of data that PROVE otherwise. I extend my hand for a firm handshake. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
garym wrote: > I appreciate your valiant efforts Mnyb, but some people simply can't be > educated. That's odd,i remember my first grade teacher saying the same thing. What are you guys talking about? Kidding aside, some people refuse to understand other points of view because they are too dead set on being right. What these people are saying is subjective opinions are not valid. Objective test results are there only valid conclusion because they are supported by data. This is wrong. They dance and move and blab around this but it's still wrong. Subjective opinions are valid. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Mnyb wrote: > Valid for what ? Not if you want to determine of there realy is a > difference in reality or if only you perceive that there is one. > > Measuring is great its a shortcut if you can do them . > > But double blind level matched listening test would also do very well in > many cases. > And are actually really good for a complex issues where there are a > unknowns . > You are still using your own perceptions and subjective impressions . > But with almost all bias removed . Well for this I did not do a DBT, but I did do a DBT to compare Squeezelite and MPD. I posted a thread on that Because someone could not make a valid argument to explain how I heard a difference they claimed it was due to variability in the components in identical Dacs...even variability in the solder inside...what nonsense. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Apesbrain wrote: > Please stop posting this nonsense. It is not welcome here. Are you the gate keeper? Its better than posting like this stuff is life and death. You need to take a deep breath and relax, its really not that serious. FYI, topics and discussions like this have been going on forever and their is and never will be a resolution. Party A always sticks to their guns and Party B always sticks to their gunsits a futile situation that leads to nowhere. Besides that, Audiophiles like ME around the net have posted over and over and over again that we DO hear differences. So no matter what YOU or anyone says, you can't make me UN-hear what I heard.got it?:cool: edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
This isn't going anywhere. You guys obviously and not Audiophiles like me:p I think that's the first major problem. You have all said your peace and I do understand where you are coming fromI used to be a normal person too. None of you have addressed my question specifically about comparing food. I don't really expect you too, but instead you keep dancing around. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Mnyb wrote: > Thta was not what i meant ;) by qualities i mean resonaböe performance > like the typical better than 100dB snr etc you can have today, No no no.no back tracking allowed. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Look you guys are grabbing at straws. Just because there are a number of you who are confused don't make your points valid. Bottom line = Subjective impressions based on perceptions gained via the senses are validPERIOD. You can not pick and choose which to apply needing measurement data too. Either all subjective impressions based on the senses need measurable data or NONEnot some do and some don't. CHECK MATE edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
mlsstl wrote: > First, back in the kitchen, good chefs still measure things. That's why > the food you like is consistently good.And the best cooks understand the > scientific basis for choosing, combining and processing the ingredients. > Just having the original recipe doesn't guarantee good results if the > cook doesn't understand the cooking process. > > With respect to audio, if ONLY the subjective types limited their > statements to "I like this better than that", there wouldn't be much > conflict. However, when one reads any of the audiophile press, you will > see endless discussions of technical detail in support of their > subjective conclusions. That's where most objectivists part ways -- they > are tired of hearing endless technical blather in support of someone > else's subjective opinion. > > There's another aspect, too. For whatever reason, subjectivists seem > loathe to accept the fact that there are any non-audio subliminal > factors influencing their judgment. I find it quite ironic that > subjectivists often expend an enormous amount amount of time denying > subjective influences while expounding to great length on the technical > aspects , sometimes BS and sometimes not, that they believe support > their conclusions. > > As I've often noted before, I'm the single biggest variable in my > system. I accept that my mood, other things that have happened that day > and my physical state at the moment have far more impact on my listening > enjoyment than which brand of DAC chip I have. Wrong! 1) Good cooks don't need to measure 2) Measuring to obtain "DATA" to justify food A tasting different than food B is not the same as measuring for a recipe...LOL The scenario you mention ie different amounts of ingredients is more equal to comparing two dacs with different parts or even a different number of parts. Essentially not apples to apples. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Mnyb wrote: > You still misses the piont . For a subjective listenings test to be used > it must be a level matched DBT . Even better a if a full suite of > measurements was done, a bunch of guys deluding each other on forum that > compares DAC tastes does not contain any information at all if there is > an audible diffrences. > > And you also misses the other points that the difference between well > designed dacs are most likely far beyond what anyone is able to hear . > Hence all this is most likly placebo experiences . > > I does not even have to be a DAC inject any kind of noise or whatever > -100 dB below the signal level ( which is where the diferences are ) . > > This have been tried decades ago you can mix in jet engines marching > bands etc in lowest bits no one hears that. You missed the point. Take your logic and apply it to subjective "taste" test. By your logic a DBT is required before your friend tells you that Sonny's Ribs are better than other restaurants. Correct? Or that a certain wine tastes better than others. Otherwise they are just a bunch of people deluding each other trying to compare food and wine that does not contain any information that proves a difference in taste. In fact, because they do not have any "Measurable" data they are delusional. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
RonM wrote: > The problem, of course, is about the very subjectivity you want to talk > about. As anyone with the slightest knowledge about perception and > conclusions knows, direct reported experience can be one of the worst > ways of getting to truth. > > It's why "eyewitness" testimony in courts almost always needs to defer > to actual measurements and physical evidence. Multiple witnesses to the > same event can have completely different perceptions of what actually > happened, even while convinced that what they saw (and heard) is > accurate. They report their "truth" as accurately as they can, but this > "truth" is as often as not simply not really true. > > This goes in spades for contexts where there is gain or benefit to some > party, and observations/perceptions can be shaped through social > influence -- like having one's perceptions taken as serious and valid by > others with similar interests. In the absence of grounding outside of > "subjective judgment", these kinds of discussions are nothing more than > ramblings. I was going to use another phrase including the word > "circle", but that would be rude. > > If we're going to talk about subjective experience as a valid approach > to getting at what's true, we need to make sure that all the relevant > variables are controlled. This means blind judgments, and all of the > kinds of things that are discussed above. > > R. Talking about perception is never a problem with normal people. People talk about food at restaurants, movies, books, vacation spots etc. all the time.no measurement data needed, only perceptional views. The moment you people bring up measurements you sound ridiculous. Imagine people using your logic for the aforementioned topics. Joe: You know I really like Sam's Burgers, they taste so good and they fill me up too, I can hardly even eat one. Unlike Smith's burgers, they seem greasy and make me feel bad. Mark: What?!?!?! What kind of measurement data do you have that proves Sam's meat is any different than Smith's meat? In fact the buns are the same too, flour, eggs, yeast etc. All this Sam's burgers, Smith's burgers crap is crazy. You make assumptions but have no real data to back it up!! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
Mnyb wrote: > But that's a sighted review ( with no measurements either ) a typical > end user testimonial ? It's does not provide any information , because > the flawed method of testing without catering for normal human > perceptive biaseses ? > Was it even level matching ( a basicrequirement ). > > And is this choice of implementations the best one for these 2 DAC and > what is the Cyrus equipped with ? > > And reading audio gd homepage about the products is full of audiophile > jargon and weird design decisions ? Makes me wonder . > http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB732/NFB7.32EN_Tech.htm > And actually no measurement does this guys really do measurements to > verify design depictions ? It looks like cargo cult tech to me ? So in > this case maybe there was an audible difference ? But we can't know > based on a sighted testimony. > > No of these DAC chips are bad real differences if the implementation if > correctly done would be far beyond us like more than -110 dB below > output . But I still wonder . But is the audio gd product a good example > ? I'm still wondering? > > This kind of "review" makes me wonder a lot . > > Please note that quoting of sighted testimonials does not really prove > your point . > . A sighted testing is just a story about what the tester "heard" and > experienced while using the products ,can be interesting on its own . > What he's really testing is his own biases . > In this test it was clear that he had read up about the stuff and had > clear expectations about what he was about to hear . > > You can't test for subtle things this way where the influences of any > kind of bias is magnitudes larger that what's tested . > > A final thought what do ESS themself thinks is the current reference > design using thier chips ? Do they have an example/reference > implementation ? > That's how they usually do it as you can't gauge the all the chip > performance quirks without having it in circuit so they usually build a > DAC themselfs to test thier own chip and implementation is big so it's a > factor how hard it is to use for a product designer . > > And this is actually a general case . > If things have flat frequency response and noise and distortion is down > by -110 your are not going to hear differences with correct testing > methods . It can be a DAC and op amp a anything , the character and > source of distortion does not matter as it so unimaginable small levels > of it in a good design . > > Is not the audiolab DAC series a good representation of what you do with > an ESS chip . Your post seems to go off on non-relevant tangents. Let me help you focus. This thread is about subjectively ranking chips based on hearing perceptions. Therefore, unless you can spit out measurements when sound enters your ears none of your post is related to this topic. Furthermore, you "feelings" towards Audiogd and its owner are irrelevant. Note that the designer of Audiogd has won awards and owns a multimillion dollar company which sells gear all over the world based on quality, sound and robustness of design. Can you make such a claim? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Mnyb wrote: > Sorry , I forgot to add the DAC chip must have some qualities to begin > with . This statement takes away your whole previous post and contradicts your past rhetoric. Yes the DAC chips do have their own qualities to begin with, which in listening tests makes them sound different. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
alfista wrote: > The point is that rating the chips in isolation is for the most part not > meaningful, the environment you place the chip in often has more impact > on the result. > There may be virtually no differences between two chips under ideal > conditions, while two different implementations with the same chip may > display a big difference. Neither of the differences is necessarily > audible, but if the design is sufficiently bad it might be. Here is an excerpt from a review of 3 dacs made by the same company in question "Audiogd". Notice the reviewer mentions the different sound signatures from the different dacs which all share the same topology and analogue stage but use a different dac chip. *\"I HAVE NOTICED THAT THE NFB-7 IS NO LONGER LISTED ON THE AUDIO-GD WEBSITE, IN FACT NO SABRE32 CHIP DAC'S ARE CURRENTLY LISTED. IF THIS IS A PERMANENT DECISION THEN IT IS IMO A VERY DISAPPOINTING DEVELOPMENT. THE SABRE32 CHIP RANGE OF DAC'S PROVIDE THE SAME LEVEL OF SOUND QUALITY WITH A DIFFERENT SOUND SIGNATURE THAN THE PCM1704UK OR WOLFSON WITH A MORE ENERGETIC, DYNAMIC AND EXCITING SOUND WHICH MAY SUIT A LOT OF PEOPLE BETTER THAN THE DARKER MORE LAID BACK SOUND OF ITS WOLFSON OR PCM1704 RIVALS.\"* http://www.head-fi.org/t/572385/review-audio-gd-nfb-7 edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
drmatt wrote: > Does anyone know how much it costs? If it was really, really cheap > maybe, just maybe .. Well the XServer costs something like $1600 edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
alfista wrote: > The point is that rating the chips in isolation is for the most part not > meaningful, the environment you place the chip in often has more impact > on the result. > There may be virtually no differences between two chips under ideal > conditions, while two different implementations with the same chip may > display a big difference. Neither of the differences is necessarily > audible, but if the design is sufficiently bad it might be. Yes I've heard that theory beforebits-r-bits etc. However take two DACs that have the same output stage, etc say the audiogd ref7 and the nfb7. One uses the PCM1704 chip and the other uses a Sabre chip. News flash... They sound different! How about that, who would have guessed? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
arnyk wrote: > Most of the above is about how identical sounding hardware can be > perceived as sounding different and ranked by someone who will not hold > to the relevant Science (is he ignorant of it or just plain willfull?) > which says that they are sonically indistinguishable. > > In the case of TDA 1534 and a few others the claim lacks necessary > details. They are extra susceptible to being intentionally incorrectly > implemented and actually sounding different, in *some* (but not all) > configurations. They are the SETs of the DAC world - a retro product > intentionally implemented to function as tone controls, and not as good > amplifiers or DACs. So um what's your point? All DAC chips sound the same and 1534s sound bad? To you Well you obviously don't have golden ears. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
tcutting wrote: > Doesn't this imply that the creation of the file which is being played > (eg, mp3 or FLAC) could also cause the dreaded jitter? So if I download > an mp3 or FLAC file from some source, I should ask what the quality of > the digital chain which was "in front of" the creation of this file? > When I rip a CD, should I be concerned about the jitter being induced > into my system at that point? Does that mean that when ripping a CD, > and then transcoding the result into FLAC (and MP3), I should be > minimizing the processing on the machine I am using to perform this > process? I guess this also means I should be using a special audiophile > DVD reader, or else additional jitter will be introduced? Should I also > add a higher-quality linear power supply to my PC to enable the highest > fidelity during this stage in the digital chain? Yes RIP's can and do sound different. You should use a very high quality DVD drive with the best software you can find. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
DJanGo wrote: > 142 posts in < 40 days - most of them with funny content. > > Why you didnt spend your time to understand the lms eco system and > improve your knowledge for the benefit of others? > eg. writing some code for the weekly updates? Hm just for kicks how could someone contribute to the LMS effort? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
arnyk wrote: > You do understand that normal human being type ears can neither think > nor speak, right? You mean your ears don't talk to you independently of what you think and say? Of course I know that, it's a metaphor, and no my ears didn't tell me to write that... My hands did it all on there own edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Chips
DJanGo wrote: > 142 posts in < 40 days - most of them with funny content. > > Why you didnt spend your time to understand the lms eco system and > improve your knowledge for the benefit of others? > eg. writing some code for the weekly updates? who me? write code for weekly updates? nah I'm too dumb for that... although some years ago I did skin lms, I made two different skins as supposed to the normal black,greenish and white old skin. I lost it when my old windows machine crashed and was too lazy to reproduce it. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106575 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
drmatt wrote: > I would have to say that I find that hard to believe. Unless it was > genuinely not capable of providing the pre-requisite data rate due to > poor performance and you were getting glitches, or of course it was > doing different audio data processing. > > I can say for sure I can't tell the difference between the audio from my > LMS server (no matter what hardware it sat on) and that from a cheap DVD > player (playing the CD) fed into the same DAC. Well its not like I wanted to believe it. I'd much rather use a cheap BBB or RPi for the LMS. I've tried it over and over and over again hoping NOT to hear a difference. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
Julf wrote: > I keep struggling to figure out if you are serious, pulling our leg or > just trolling. > > Can you please explain how jitter from a source, sending buffered > packets over a TCP/IP connection, can affect the player? It is not like > S/PDIF where the DAC derives the clock from the incoming data. Have you > heard the expression "independent clock domains"? Pulling your leg, no I'm serious but I'd rather keep it light hearted vs. too serious and argumentative. We may disagree but I still find you folks my audiophile friends. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
Julf wrote: > I keep struggling to figure out if you are serious, pulling our leg or > just trolling. > > Can you please explain how jitter from a source, sending buffered > packets over a TCP/IP connection, can affect the player? It is not like > S/PDIF where the DAC derives the clock from the incoming data. Have you > heard the expression "independent clock domains"? No I can't explain it.my ears tell me what they like and I listen. Sorry I've been trying to figure out a quantifiable solution to justify what my ears say they don't like for a long long time. All I know is [placebo or not] my ears like less jitter from a source. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
arnyk wrote: > Jitter is a physical parameter that is readily measured. Below a certain > point, it is completely inaudible. Modern commercial digital audio gear > with audible jitter is very rare. > > The phrase "...latent jitter..." is either meaningless on the grounds of > being overly vague, or indicates no actual problem because after all, > *laten*t means "concealed and not manifest" If you THINK thats true, then try two different sources one with very high jitter and one with very low. Let your own ears tell you "their" truth. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
drmatt wrote: > Sure, none of my business why you invested in an i7 with maxed out ram > when a raspberry pi will do.. ;) > > I would bet there's no way for you to load your server sufficiently to > even measure a difference in the packet delivery time at the receiver > end. Otherwise, Facebook might not work so well! ( Unless, of course, > you just hammer the network link to death - that's a given.) I tried one of my old BeagleBone Blacks as a LMS, the sound was different vs the i7. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
utgg wrote: > Explain what you mean by that and how it is relevant to audio quality. You explain why you think a source latent with jitter will not affect audio quality. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
utgg wrote: > The "jitter and latency" referred to in that Redhat article is the delay > and variability in scheduling of real-time threads. Nothing at all to do > with the jitter of a clock in a DAC. Nobody said it had anything to do with a clock in a Dac. We are talking about jitter from the source. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
drmatt wrote: > And if you read around you will also see that a typical "low latency" > kernel responds, on average, more slowly than a lightly utilised normal > kernel, because the real-time variant is tuned to provide guaranteed > response times, not the fastest possible. > > Secondly, and mainly, as I mentioned above, LMS is forced to wake up and > send a chunk of audio to a player in the range of "several times a > second". The tuning you are talking about is several powers of ten finer > than that. Even a standard kernel gets a clock tick every 1/100th of a > second so will always get your network packet into your app well before > then next buffer needs to be sent. > > This armchair engineer has worked in kernel tuning for decades, and IMHO > you are finessing beyond what is relevant, by several powers of ten. > > I restate: LMS does not play audio, it sends asynchronous data to an > audio player in very large chunks. Well if you have Golden Ears you would appreciate finessing things beyond what mere mortals think as relevant...:p Yeah I get what you are sayingbut...tweaking is fun and if my imagination can perceive a difference [even placebo] then why not? edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
drmatt wrote: > Lms doesn't play audio, how can it exhibit jitter? > > Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk LMS is a link in the chain of digital data being transmitted from a source [HD, file etc.] and a Dac. Anything along the chain and induce jitter. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
Julf wrote: > Does it? Would love to see the actual correlation. _ HERE_IS_SOME_INFO_FROM_REDHAT...[IF_YOU_CAN_BELIEVE_THEY_KNOW_WHAT_THEY_ARE_TALKING_ABOUT]_ Newer CPUs may alter their performance based on a workload heuristic in order to save power. This is at odds with latency-sensitive workload requirements, causing sub-optimal performance/jitter. here is limited flexibility with regard to kernel threads as compared to userspace threads. Here are some options for task affinity and isolation to reduce jitter and latency:Isolate CPU cores from userspace tasks . https://access.redhat.com/sites/default/files/attachments/2012_perf_brief-low_latency_tuning_for_rhel6_0.pdf FYI, plenty of more information on the Web. Texas Instruments, RedHat and plenty of other companies with the money and staff to do "real" research can provide a lot of good data. All of my tweaks etc. comes from them as suppose to arm-chair engineers found in forums. Years ago I read an article by Texas Instruments which clearly showed the results of an experiment that showed the correlation between USB wire length and jitter.even as USB trace increased on motherboards jitter increased. Of course as predicted people laughed at me and said I was crazyclinging to the idea of some crap about digital data via spdif needed to be >1.5m and applying that to USB [because it too was digital data]. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Gazjam wrote: > And they say Americans dont do irony... ;) > > Arny, > Theres better ways to enjoy your retirement as Im sure you know. > > Chill out, put on your favourite music on a good system...or any system > really...cant tell the difference in sound quality without measuring the > kit with a scope and double blind testing. > Only problem is you cant SEE to change the CD over with your eyes shut? > > But after having it pointed out to me your right... > I'm selling all my gear now and buying one of these. :p > 21634 > Serious question for you? > Would you expect it to measure worse or better than the Transporter? > > And would your expectations of differences between the two systems > affect the outcome of the test? > > (I'm thinking of Heisenberg's "Uncertainty if this Guys actually > trolling?" Principle... which states you cant measure the speed and > position of the BSh*t coming from someones mouth without affecting the > outcome) > So measurements are out the window on this one Arny and I'll just have > to subjectively listen what your saying and the tone of how your saying > it. > > Us Brits do sarcasm quite well :) > > All meant in good humour friend. > So long and thanks for all the fish. That Desktop system as "Audiophile BLUE" lights, so it MUST sound awesome edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
Julf wrote: > That's what I would have assumed. Can we agree that is overkill? :) I thought 0% is ideal...for example as % increases so does jitter. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
Julf wrote: > And what is the typical CPU load and RAM usage? Pretty much 0% edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Software Updates
Wombat wrote: > "who suggested to them that they should change their business plan and > offer JRiver for Mac instead of concentrating on Windows" > Ok, so when Jim did not start the MAC version because of KingDoughnut > you promise to sign off here and shut up? Sign off and shut upNO WAY I'm just getting warmed up;););) I have many more stories to tell...pull up a chair and have a doughnut :cool: edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106572 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
So they want to sell SSD's preloaded with their OS. Thats kind of a bad business planunique but bad. Hardware failures, shipping damage, stocking, burning and a slew of other overhead costs = bad business move. They should have just coped RoonLabs business model and offered the OS available to download, once downloaded and running give users a week +/- to test drive it and make them buy an activation key. This way the product can get into the hands of more people with much less cost and effort on their part. If the product is indeed this good it will sell itself. As it stands, the person is either stuck with a SSD/OS -or- having to return some hardware which could get messy. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Software Updates
Wombat wrote: > ...load an entire cd into RAM... > You are still ahead of time :) So when are you going to PM Jim? Oh and I'm waiting on your PROOF!:confused::confused: edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106572 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Software Updates
Wombat wrote: > ...load an entire cd into RAM... > You are still ahead of time :) Yeah I know, people think I exaggerate or lie about things. But as you can see, I am to blame for WASAPI making it to JRIVER, at least when it didthey would have probably implemented it sooner or later anyways due to following the crowd. FWIW, many of my "Tweaks" have made it into main stream media players after being initially shot down and laughed atoh well such is the life of a genius :D:D edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106572 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Euphony Audio
drmatt wrote: > Yeah they like to imply the low latency helps. Well, it helps startup, > no doubt.. but beyond that.. > > Ahem, I built an over engineered home server.. :). HP microserver, core > i3, 6gb ram, ssd boot drive, pair of mirrored western digital red nas > drives. Tbh it was cheap... The server cost a hundred quid. > > Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk i3 + 6g ram is not over engineered. My LMS machine uses a i7 3.4g processor and 16g RAM with 1T SSD I think thats about normal for a server. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
