Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Sean, thanks for Your answer. Please don't feel bad about my post, it is more argument in discussion then request to Slimdevices. I overreacted after provocation( not from slimdevices). Please take Your time to fix this bug, thanks ones again, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;311869 Wrote: Yes...but what music - it must have been something very specific? UH, I really don't remember. Definitely some audiophile jazz, opus3 or chesky maybe. But it's not about one song. I got my Squeze from frend in US (thanks Cico), built amp, and start listening. And suddenly there is some noise in ultra high quality recordings, and here we are now. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
darrenyeats;311586 Wrote: Enough already! We all agree that it's a bug, we all agree it will be fixed, we all agree there is a workaround with transcoding. Peace (as in hold your), Darren Only open question is WHEN. And when You are here, what is Your opinion about my marketing post? sikahr;310051 Wrote: Ok, I'll try. Robin (and many others) points out this bug doesn't affect many people because: - Audiophiles don't listen to lossless - Average Joe dont need high quality So, conclusion is, high quality mp3 playback is not important to most users, and this bug have low priority. BUT, at the same time, all slimdevices (Squeeze, duet, transporter) have these statements in specification (my caps and bold): Compressed formats (MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, MP2, MusePack, WMA) MPEG decoding uses MAD software, *WIDELY REGARDED AS THE MOST ACCURATE*, most compatible MP3 decoder. *HIGH ACCURACY 24-BIT SYNTHESIS* Supports all MP3 data rates and sample rates, including VBR I understand these statements as advertising of high quality mp3 playback capability. So, - When you need to make selling point, high quality mp3 playback capability *IS IMPORTANT* and emphasized in specification. - When you need to fix bugs, high quality mp3 playback capability *IS NOT SO IMPORTANT* and bugs have low priority. In my opinion, because of bug, slimdevices mp3 playback quality is bellow average, because *accuracy of decoder(because of bug) is about 10-12 correct bits* (my estimation - needs testing but I believe it is true). Statements in specification gave *false impression of high quality mp3 playback capability*, when implementation quality, because of bug, is *bellow average*. To make conclusion, *IF SLIMDEVICES IS FAIR AND HONEST COMPANY*, they will *remove false claims* of high quality mp3 playback from specification and other advertising material * until this bug is fixed *( it is now open more then six months). Please feel free to comment flaws in my logic here. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Some notes have been added to this bug. Basically it is the difference in precision between MAD's portable fixed-point multiplier and the x86-optimized version. There is possibly a better multiply routine we could be using which would get closer to the X86 version. Nenad, please relax. This doesn't need to be the kind of confrontation that you're making it. I have already apologized for the delay in getting to this bug. If it turns out that we need to revise our marketing copy based on what we learn, then we'll do that. For now I am trying to determine if the accuracy can be improved to match the x86 version. Thanks. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Nonreality;311689 Wrote: Actually I wasn't talking about you in that post. I would hate for one program to make me have to convert all my mp3's to flac, it's simple but a hassle. But like you said it doesn't affect me. The replay gain problem is if you happen to have had Itunes do it's soundcheck (which I was using for my 2 Ipods) then for some unknown reason they decided that the sb should add track gain and soundcheck together. So if you have a track replaygain of -8dB's it will now be somewhere around -16 dBs. Gets pretty quiet if your listening to various tracks with smartgain going. The fix is to not use any track gain or delete all the soundcheck tags. Oooh that's nasty - especially if they both decided to boost! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;311601 Wrote: Unfortunatrelly, I don't have original rip (six months passed), but I have wav (normalised to -45db) decoded from mp3 on PC. Compare this wav to mp3: http://www.driveway.com/u2b8k4z9t6 Peace, Nenad That's a shame. Can you explain how you first noticed this problem? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;311802 Wrote: That's a shame. Can you explain how you first noticed this problem? Listen music, hear something's wrong, start testing. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;311801 Wrote: Oooh that's nasty - especially if they both decided to boost!Exactly, but maybe one good thing about the loudness wars is you don't find that much anymore. The sad thing is that this bug was done on purpose. Plus the fact that peak clipping values aren't used. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;311808 Wrote: Listen music, hear something's wrong, start testing. Peace, Nenad Yes...but what music - it must have been something very specific? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
For the record, my carefully ripped MP3 files sound awesome on the SB, I have not encountered the described issue and kind of doubt I would encounter a scenario like that. Most people, upon playing good burn-in and test CDs (such as Sheffleid Labs) discover that their systems have frequency areas that are non-linear, and sometimes even extremely good speakers show borderline resonance during a slow sweep. So while at this point it seems established the SB is not entirely linear in its frequency response, I wonder if it's really such a scandal given its marginal significance and the fact the rest of the music reproduction chain is bound to also show occasional non-linear response. -- pablolie pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Nonreality;311296 Wrote: No, I don't want to hurt my old speakers. :( I just don't think that he should be berated because he uses a format that some don't consider up to their standards. But I think you have to be patient also because it's not a huge thing. They should fix the replay gain first :) We all want what affects us to be a priority, human nature. In time I hope they fix everything. I'm not berating anyone! The OP keeps ignoring the fact that: the issue is buried in the noisefloor of most systems there is no evidence that anyone else has ever noticed the issue there is a simple workaround (convert mp3 to flac) that fixes the problem. What is the replaygain problem? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;311416 Wrote: I'm not berating anyone! The OP keeps ignoring the fact that: the issue is buried in the noisefloor of most systems there is no evidence that anyone else has ever noticed the issue there is a simple workaround (convert mp3 to flac) that fixes the problem. Phil, I challenge You to listen to these files: http://www.driveway.com/i1l4u7v3m4 http://www.driveway.com/b6o9y7s2n1 This is short fragment of music normalized on -45db and -75db. Please listen to these files on some slimdevices and on some other mp3 player. After that we can continue discussion. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
andynormancx;311449 Wrote: I Is it possible to get it to transcode from MP3 to FLAC ? At least then those few people who are really affected (MP3 users, with very good amps and music with quiet passages) could have an easy work-around without having to convert all their MP3s. Transcoding workaround(mp3 decoding in full 24-bit,): mp3 flc * * [madplay] --output=wave:- --replay-gain=audiophile --attenuate=-0 --very-quiet --bit-depth=24 $FILE$ | [flac] -cs --totally-silent --compression-level-0 --endian big --sign signed --channels 2 --bps 24 --sample-rate 44100 - Madplay get at http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-others.php Now please listen samples again to hear how they sound now. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
andynormancx;311449 Wrote: I've listened and I'm afraid your samples just prove the previous point that the artefacts are swamped by the noise floor of a typical non-audiophile sound system. Yes I can hear the artefacts very clearly when I turn up my amp way beyond where I would normally listen. But at normal listening levels I can't hear the -75dB track at all above the normal noise from my amp and I can barely hear the -45dB track let alone the artefacts. Most of my music is in MP3 ~200kbps VBR at the moment and I have never heard these artefacts in normal listening. They are quite distinctive when you can hear them, but I never have heard them. I'm guessing that if you listened to a lot of classical music with very quiet but not silent sections then you would have more chance of hearing it in real life, but you'd have to have a much quieter amp than mine for it to be noticable. The bug should obviously be fixed, but it is unlikely that many people are actually suffering because of it. I'll quote myself: sikahr;246061 Wrote: This is it. Bug is not showstoper but very annoying on hi-fi gear. My rough estimation is that generated noise is about -50 - -60 dB. cheers, Nenad Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
andynormancx;311449 Wrote: you'd have to have a much quieter amp than mine for it to be noticable. I mostly listen with Sennheiser HD580 and dirt cheap homemade CMOY headphone amp with burr-brown opamp. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;311431 Wrote: Phil, I challenge You to listen to these files: http://www.driveway.com/i1l4u7v3m4 http://www.driveway.com/b6o9y7s2n1 This is short fragment of music normalized on -45db and -75db. Please listen to these files on some slimdevices and on some other mp3 player. After that we can continue discussion. Peace, Nenad OK will do... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;311455 Wrote: Transcoding workaround(mp3 decoding in full 24-bit,): Madplay get at http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-others.php Now please listen samples again to hear how they sound now. I don't need to, I know that the artefacts will have gone away, because the x86 version of madplay doesn't have the bug. So what would be the point ? -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Well I had to wind my system up gain 99 (out of 100) to hear the -75dB one...at which point I could hear what was left of the music and the artefacts. But I'm running the system so loud (with over 500 watts of active amplification) that normal music would be at the pain barrier!. Anyway - I stand by my point. In normal usage i can't see how this would ever get heard. How did you manage to hear it? I can only imagine you were listening on headphones with the gain wide open to a track recorded at a very low level? Anyway as I keep saying, I converted the files to FLAC (using Switch Plus) and the artefacts disappeared. So there is a perfect workaround for the one file out of 100,000 that might have this issue... Peace Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
First, about the workaround, there are no need for conversion, transcoding workaround works superb. Second, You didn't say anything about first file (-45db). Please listen additional file: http://www.driveway.com/v8x5g1b3p9 this is -60db file, it maybe gives best picture because music and artefacts are about same level. My point is: if noise of about -60 db mixed with music is not important, then I agree with You. But I think this is important and I clearly can hear this on my system on audiophile recordings as additional noise which disappeare when I use trancoding. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Enough already! We all agree that it's a bug, we all agree it will be fixed, we all agree there is a workaround with transcoding. Peace (as in hold your), Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;311583 Wrote: First, about the workaround, there are no need for conversion, transcoding workaround works superb. Second, You didn't say anything about first file (-45db). Please listen additional file: http://www.driveway.com/v8x5g1b3p9 this is -60db file, it maybe gives best picture because music and artefacts are about same level. My point is: if noise of about -60 db mixed with music is not important, then I agree with You. But I think this is important and I clearly can hear this on my system on audiophile recordings as additional noise which disappeare when I use trancoding. Peace, Nenad The -45dB file was...louder. Maybe I'm missing something here. Can you post the mp3 fragment without any normalisation or changes in level? so I can hear it exactly as it would be ripped? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;311587 Wrote: The -45dB file was...louder. Maybe I'm missing something here. Can you post the mp3 fragment without any normalisation or changes in level? so I can hear it exactly as it would be ripped? Unfortunatrelly, I don't have original rip (six months passed), but I have wav (normalised to -45db) decoded from mp3 on PC. Compare this wav to mp3: http://www.driveway.com/u2b8k4z9t6 Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;311416 Wrote: I'm not berating anyone! The OP keeps ignoring the fact that: the issue is buried in the noisefloor of most systems there is no evidence that anyone else has ever noticed the issue there is a simple workaround (convert mp3 to flac) that fixes the problem. What is the replaygain problem? Actually I wasn't talking about you in that post. I would hate for one program to make me have to convert all my mp3's to flac, it's simple but a hassle. But like you said it doesn't affect me. The replay gain problem is if you happen to have had Itunes do it's soundcheck (which I was using for my 2 Ipods) then for some unknown reason they decided that the sb should add track gain and soundcheck together. So if you have a track replaygain of -8dB's it will now be somewhere around -16 dBs. Gets pretty quiet if your listening to various tracks with smartgain going. The fix is to not use any track gain or delete all the soundcheck tags. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Nonreality;311689 Wrote: I would hate for one program to make me have to convert all my mp3's to flac, it's simple but a hassle. But like you said it doesn't affect me. No one has to convert any files from MP3 to FLAC to work around it, as long as their server has enough CPU power to transcode their MP3s to FLACs on the fly. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
CardinalFang;309297 Wrote: If we're talking about people on this audiophile forum, and so people using transporters and SB3 in good hifi systems, I would guess that the vast majority will be using lossless most of the time. My guess is that people are only using MP3 because they have some downloads or for some reason don't want to buy more disk space or also use the same files on portable players.. All my favorite, well recorded albums are FLACs. That represents about 10% of a collection that consists of about 2,500. I also record them to 320k MP3s for convenience, and keep both - FLAC for listening, MP3 for portability and universal compatibility. Most commercial or poorly recorded music I simply converted to MP3, 256k or 320k (quite whimsically), because it is more than good enough and because of convenience and compatibility. I love FLAC - my issue with it is compatibility across platforms (portable player, car etc). So my using MP3 does not mean I don't enjoy listening to music with high quality - it just means I am convinced I can take the convenience factor of the SB one step further without a penalty in sound for a lot of recorded music. Case in point, and a discussion I had last night with a fellow audiophile in San Francisco after going to the Return To Forever concert: we're there live and there is less staging than if I'd played their music as a 160k MP3 on my home system. Really. No matter, we enjoyed the concert (even though of course they had their self indulgent moments, and Chic Corea shouldn't be chewing gum when talking to an audience, imho). But it just comes to show we sometimes get a tad overboard with this obsession on staging and such. Most recordings have no staging whatsoever, so trying to preserve that makes little sense. And with the loudness wars sadly a lot of resolution has been sacrificed. Many things make many recordings perfectly happy 256k MP#s that no one could tell apart from the FLAC encoded equivalent. But then again, I don't dispute that on well-recorded stuff the difference can be baffling. -- pablolie pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Nonreality;310301 Wrote: So he shouldn't be able to get the best sound quality out of what he has? Just because there exists something better? Maybe he already has a couple of hundred albums encoded to Mp3. My car is not handling well because they put the wrong tires on I'd like it fixed. Oh if your worried about handling just drive a BMW. I can't imagine you being worried about handling if you don't drive a BMW. The other thing is yes Flac is great but maybe 1 in 10,000 can really hear a difference between it and a 320 lame Mp3. Yes well if you are the 1 in 10,000... you won't use MP3! Anyway I think this is silly. Have you ever heard this bug? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
I believe Sean has verified it is a valid problem, so what are you implying when you put the word bug in quotation marks? On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Phil Leigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes well if you are the 1 in 10,000... you won't use MP3! Anyway I think this is silly. Have you ever heard this bug? ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Mitch Harding;311291 Wrote: I believe Sean has verified it is a valid problem, so what are you implying when you put the word bug in quotation marks? On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Phil Leigh Phil.Leigh.3awpw01213299002 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com wrote: Yes well if you are the 1 in 10,000... you won't use MP3! Anyway I think this is silly. Have you ever heard this bug? Not that it doesn't exist...merely that I have yet to hear of anyone (other than the OP) actually hear it in real life ... ie when not creating a -90dB sine wave - which you get a lot of in real music of course. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;311288 Wrote: Yes well if you are the 1 in 10,000... you won't use MP3! Anyway I think this is silly. Have you ever heard this bug?No, I don't want to hurt my old speakers. :( I just don't think that he should be berated because he uses a format that some don't consider up to their standards. But I think you have to be patient also because it's not a huge thing. They should fix the replay gain first :) We all want what affects us to be a priority, human nature. In time I hope they fix everything. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Robin Bowes;309312 Wrote: Nenad, Calm down. Ok, I'll try. Robin (and many others) points out this bug doesn't affect many people because: - Audiophiles don't listen to lossless - Average Joe dont need high quality So, conclusion is, high quality mp3 playback is not important to most users, and this bug have low priority. BUT, at the same time, all slimdevices (Squeeze, duet, transporter) have these statements in specification (my caps and bold): Compressed formats (MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, MP2, MusePack, WMA) MPEG decoding uses MAD software, *WIDELY REGARDED AS THE MOST ACCURATE*, most compatible MP3 decoder. *HIGH ACCURACY 24-BIT SYNTHESIS* Supports all MP3 data rates and sample rates, including VBR I understand these statements as advertising of high quality mp3 playback capability. So, - When you need to make selling point, high quality mp3 playback capability *IS IMPORTANT* and emphasized in specification. - When you need to fix bugs, high quality mp3 playback capability *IS NOT SO IMPORTANT* and bugs have low priority. In my opinion, because of bug, slimdevices mp3 playback quality is bellow average, because *accuracy of decoder(because of bug) is about 10-12 correct bits* (my estimation - needs testing but I believe it is true). Statements in specification gave *false impression of high quality mp3 playback capability*, when implementation quality, because of bug, is *bellow average*. To make conclusion, *IF SLIMDEVICES IS FAIR AND HONEST COMPANY*, they will *remove false claims* of high quality mp3 playback from specification and other advertising material * until this bug is fixed *( it is now open more then six months). Please feel free to comment flaws in my logic here. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
To Phil Leigh: Please accept my apology because I overreacted and use some words which are inappropriate. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;310056 Wrote: To Phil Leigh: Please accept my apology because I overreacted and use some words which are inappropriate. Peace, Nenad Nenad, Apology Accepted Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
cliveb;308940 Wrote: You appear to be extremely worried about sound quality, and yet choose to use MP3. These two positions strike me as curiously in conflict. Surely if you're that worried about sound quality, you should switch to a lossless codec (and then the MP3 bug wouldn't be an issue for you). So he shouldn't be able to get the best sound quality out of what he has? Just because there exists something better? Maybe he already has a couple of hundred albums encoded to Mp3. My car is not handling well because they put the wrong tires on I'd like it fixed. Oh if your worried about handling just drive a BMW. I can't imagine you being worried about handling if you don't drive a BMW. The other thing is yes Flac is great but maybe 1 in 10,000 can really hear a difference between it and a 320 lame Mp3. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Is the idea of ditching the current MAD decoder for mpg123 (http://www.mpg123.de) a viable one? mpg123 is being actively developed, unlike MAD. -- lostintime lostintime's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17968 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;309281 Wrote: Because, ALMOST ALL users (use tapes)/(listens mp3). What is Your opinion, how many users of slimdevices use mp3 (in %)? If we're talking about people on this audiophile forum, and so people using transporters and SB3 in good hifi systems, I would guess that the vast majority will be using lossless most of the time. My guess is that people are only using MP3 because they have some downloads or for some reason don't want to buy more disk space or also use the same files on portable players. Those who do have large MP3 collections do not in the main appear to have noticed any problem - I didn't on any of my MP3 downloads. I have never seen it discussed in any other thread. Clearly it's not audible to most MP3 users or there would be a huge outcry. I really do suggest you get this into perspective. The bug is acknowledged but it only affects a small group of people in edge conditions. You are one of those people, but you do have alternatives. It wouldn't have priority in any software company I know of. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr wrote: So, there are two class of users: Audiophiles, real men who don't listen to mp3. They are not affected by Mp3 bug because they don't listen to mp3. Ordinary user, poor men who listen to mp3. They are not affected by Mp3 bug because: - they don't have equipment for hi-fi listening - they listen music where hi-fi is not important - they don't have ears for hi-fi listening - they simply don't have need for hi-fi listening If Ordinary user wants to become Audiophile, he must go through initiation, he must burn all your discs with mp3 and buy cables for minimum 5.000 $. Nenad, Calm down. There is a bug - I believe that has been confirmed (I've not investigated myself). However, as many people keep pointing out, it really doesn't affect many people - you seem to be the only one who has reported it. And, for those that it does affect, there is a perfectly satisfactory work-around. There are other bugs that are more severe and that affect many more people (wireless connection issues, etc). You can get an idea of the priority a bug is likely to receive by multiplying the number of people affected (impact) by the severity, and possibly add a factor taking into account how much effort a fix is likely to take (resource), i.e.: priority = impact * severity / resource In your case: Impact: low Severity: low Resource: high So, priority = low * low / high = v. low This isn't going to get priority over the many other things that SD are working on at the moment, some of which you are not aware of. You can bleat on here and anywhere you choose, but it ain't gonna change a thing. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Chris and Sean, thank for your answers, but me and Slimdevices have totally different perspective about importance and priority of this bug. My point of view is that soundquality related bugs have very high priority, slimdevices obviously have opposite. Chris and Sean, do You listen mp3s on your SQ or transporter with headphones? If You do, find some very quiet part of song and increase amplification to very high level. When You hear what is going on, maybe your point of view may be changed. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;308923 Wrote: My point of view is that soundquality related bugs have very high priority, slimdevices obviously have opposite. Without wanting to fan any flames, anyone who is really interested in the highest quality would not be using a lossy format. I can't personally see any benefit in using 320kbs MP3 over FLAC or Apple Lossless. Storage is cheap and 320kbs is over the top if you wanted to use it on a portable device as well as SB. I can see why this is a low priority, it really is an edge case and frankly obscure and with easy workarounds. I'd much rather the team fix problems in mainstream features that affect the majority. Why not transcode the MP3s to FLAC? -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;308923 Wrote: My point of view is that soundquality related bugs have very high priority You appear to be extremely worried about sound quality, and yet choose to use MP3. These two positions strike me as curiously in conflict. Surely if you're that worried about sound quality, you should switch to a lossless codec (and then the MP3 bug wouldn't be an issue for you). -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
To CardinalFang and others who think that high quality MP3 decoding is not important: If that is the case, I think that it will be fair to Slimdevices customers to change Slimdevices devices specification. Now it is: # MPEG decoding uses MAD software, widely regarded as the most accurate, most compatible MP3 decoder # High accuracy 24-bit synthesis I propose change to: # MPEG decoding uses MAD software, widely regarded as the most accurate, most compatible MP3 decoder, but our implementation have bugs which introduce strange noise in sound which makes it unusable for high quality mp3 listening # High accuracy 24-bit synthesis, but our implementation have bugs which limits accuracy to (approximately - I am guessing here) 12 correct bits I imagine Slimdevices marketing team happy dancing after this hypothetical specification change. :)) Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;308953 Wrote: To CardinalFang and others who think that high quality MP3 decoding is not important: If that is the case, I think that it will be fair to Slimdevices customers to change Slimdevices devices specification. Now it is: # MPEG decoding uses MAD software, widely regarded as the most accurate, most compatible MP3 decoder # High accuracy 24-bit synthesis I propose change to: # MPEG decoding uses MAD software, widely regarded as the most accurate, most compatible MP3 decoder, but our implementation have bugs which introduce strange noise in sound which makes it unusable for high quality mp3 listening # High accuracy 24-bit synthesis, but our implementation have bugs which limits accuracy to (approximately - I am guessing here) 12 correct bits I imagine Slimdevices marketing team happy dancing after this hypothetical specification change. :)) Peace, Nenad Nobody (well...almost nobody) is going to take this seriously because as CliveB pointed out, if you CARE about sound quality you won't use MP3 anyway. Why don't you just use a proper grown-up lossless format and enjoy the quality? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;308953 Wrote: To CardinalFang and others who think that high quality MP3 decoding is not important: The whole point behind all the comments made is that there is a better way of doing it - use a lossless format instead. Problem solved. The fact that the SB doesn't do as good a job as it should is secondary to the core fact that the source data is already compromised. You're never going to get as good an experience as you could do. To me it's like buying a compact hifi system and discovering that the cassette tape deck doesn't work as well as it could. Do I bother with complaining to the manufacturer, or just go play CDs instead? I know it should play the tapes better, but even if it did, they are still an inferior experience. Why am I even bothering with them? You *really* shouldn't be using MP3 in a serious hifi set-up, you are spoiling the ship for a hap'worth of tar as the saying goes. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
I find a peice of the puzzle missing, however, when you're saying you should really be using lossless instead. There's another thread/poll talking about downloaded music. For those who prefer the convenience of downloading source material, the obvious format is MP3 - take Amazon and their DRM free offerings. The quality of these should be much superior to most mp3s and iTunes downloads (higher sample rate), and for many are becoming the standard. Now, granted, they won't be as good as FLAC or ALAC, but how much material can be downloaded in these forms? Is the user supposed to take the extra step to transcode into something else to get the best playback with the most common format available? -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Yeah, I have to concur here. I use FLAC whenever possible, but some music is only available to me in mp3 (ie exclusive downloads from emusic). I accept that it won't sound as good as my FLAC files, but I'd like it to sound as good as possible. I am not saying that SD has done a poor job in prioritizing this bug -- I don't doubt there are higher priority problems that need addressing. But I don't think people should trivialize or dismiss this bug just because it affects mp3 playback, and I do hope it gets fixed. Mitch On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:20 PM, tcutting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find a peice of the puzzle missing, however, when you're saying you should really be using lossless instead. There's another thread/poll talking about downloaded music. For those who prefer the convenience of downloading source material, the obvious format is MP3 - take Amazon and their DRM free offerings. The quality of these should be much superior to most mp3s and iTunes downloads (higher sample rate), and for many are becoming the standard. Now, granted, they won't be as good as FLAC or ALAC, but how much material can be downloaded in these forms? Is the user supposed to take the extra step to transcode into something else to get the best playback with the most common format available? -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
fresh news from: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6231 Christopher Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Severity|major |normal Target Milestone|7.1 |Future What can I say?! -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Sikahr, Not every bug can be fixed for every software release. Sometimes they are retargeted for future releases (sometimes specific releases, sometimes not) based on a variety of factors, including number of customers affected, severity (eg catch fire vs inconvenience), estimated time and resources required to fix, number of other bugs ahead of it, and so on. I'm sorry that we do not expect to resolve your bug for 7.1, but there are many other bugs that _have_ been fixed. At some point we schedule a release to get those out, and anything still open at that point remains open for a future release. If you want to gain more perspective on the process, I would recommend looking at other bugs in the database, both open and closed, to see how it works. I realize your frustration, but unfortunately not everything can be done as quickly as we would prefer. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;258779 Wrote: Shiping new product with known flaws in reproduction, hmm Oh, like thats never happened with any other product by other manufacturers? :) -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Bump I ,from specs, presume that new Duet have same mp3 decoder in firmware as Squeezebox. Shiping new product with known flaws in reproduction, hmm Come on slimdevices, you can squash that bug! -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr wrote: Come on slimdevices, you can squash that bug! No one cares. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
I care. But the bug is open, so it's in the gods' hands now! On Jan 15, 2008 4:57 AM, Pat Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sikahr wrote: Come on slimdevices, you can squash that bug! No one cares. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
I placed my vote on the bug ! and this bug: (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5119) Why ? while i'm dont use much mp3, or volume control, replay gain or normalization etc.I prefer flac to a digital input in my surround processor, where further processing takes place (another argument for lossles format). I'm in the process of replacing all mp3's with flac btw. I do think any soundquality related issue should be investigated asap, these are the 2 i know off how many more are loose ??? Sound quality is the essence off any good audio device. Dodads features and bling takes second place. Issues like these 2 shows that quality control could improve, what I'm saying is, is it only the mp3 encoder that have bug's ? I'm thinking like this: The real issue is not mp3 playback, it is QC and How that is implemented at slim/logitech. It could be that it is only a coincidence that it is the mp3 encoder that is broken this time ? Afiak the SB3 has the following built in encoders: FLAC,WAV,AIFF,WMA,OGG,MP3 are all these tested every firmware uppdate ? So use buggzilla and vote for soundquality related bugs ! /Mikael PS Happy New Year -- Mnyb Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Oh wait, I'm in the Audiophile forum. ;-) Happy New Year everyone! -- Kurt Main Entry: au·dio·phile Pronunciation: 'o-dE-O-fI(-)l Function: noun : a person who takes the pursuit of high-fidelity sound reproduction so seriously that they don't have to listen to music anymore. Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Robin Bowes;248793 Wrote: dcolak wrote: I'm an audiophile and I do want my 320kbps mp3 files to sound as good as they can. Or... maybe I'm not an audophile because I have mp3s? :-) You got it :) R. Oh my God, I'll have to erase all my 320kbps mp3 files! I thought I was in love with music and that audiophiles were all about music loving... I guess I was wrong :) :) They are all about kbps! :) :) -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
dcolak wrote: Robin Bowes;248793 Wrote: dcolak wrote: I'm an audiophile and I do want my 320kbps mp3 files to sound as good as they can. Or... maybe I'm not an audophile because I have mp3s? :-) You got it :) R. Oh my God, I'll have to erase all my 320kbps mp3 files! That would be a good start. I thought I was in love with music and that audiophiles were all about music loving... Nope, that would be music lovers. I guess I was wrong :) :) Yup. They are all about kbps! :) :) and snake oil ;) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Robin, I beg You, please stay out of this thread. Your comments brings nothing good. You have no interest in MP3 and I don't know what You are doing here. Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
As I said before, brings noting good. -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr wrote: Robin, I beg You, please stay out of this thread. Your comments brings nothing good. This thread is effectively finished. You should be following the bug report for updates. http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6231 You have no interest in MP3 and I don't know what You are doing here. This is the Audiophile forum. I don't know what you're doing here. :) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Robin Bowes;248331 Wrote: No need to refresh the thread - there's a case logged in the Slim Devices bug tracking system. I'm not angry, just sick of you going on about this bug. This is the Audiophile forum and I would hazard a guess that 99.999% of people here use flac, myself included, so we don't care about a bug with mp3 decoding. I'm an audiophile and I do want my 320kbps mp3 files to sound as good as they can. Or... maybe I'm not an audophile because I have mp3s? :-) -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
dcolak wrote: I'm an audiophile and I do want my 320kbps mp3 files to sound as good as they can. Or... maybe I'm not an audophile because I have mp3s? :-) You got it :) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Heeelp, heeelp, slimdevices engineers, little bugs are eating our signal. +---+ |Filename: sinus1kHz -90dB.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3833| +---+ -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr wrote: Heeelp, heeelp, slimdevices engineers, little bugs are eating our signal. +---+ |Filename: sinus1kHz -90dB.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3833| +---+ Three points: 1. The bug is logged and will be dealt with in due course. In fact, the link to the bug was in the very post you replied to: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6231 2. Use flac - it's better than mp3 anyway. 3. Stop whining. Most people here don't care about this issue. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr wrote: 2. Use flac - it's better than mp3 anyway. You know this for the fact, I mean you did double blind test. All tests on hydrogenaudio means nothing to You? Yes, I know it for a fact. FLAC is lossless. By design and implementation. MP3 is lossy. It throws away signal that it thinks is not important. This lost information can never be recovered. Take a wav file, compress it with flac, uncompress it to a copy, run diff on the original and copy. They are the same. A double blind test is not needed. All a double blind test shows is that the folks could not reliably tell a difference through their equipment. Double blind testing is how you quantify subjecting things when you can't measure them directly. There is no need to be subjecting, flac is better. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Robin, it seems You live here on this forum.:) Anyway, my post is little joke to refresh thread, don't understand way you are so seriousangry. P.S. Robin Bowes;248291 Wrote: 2. Use flac - it's better than mp3 anyway. You know this for the fact, I mean you did double blind test. All tests on hydrogenaudio means nothing to You? cheers, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Hi Pat, no question about that mp3 is better quality then lossless (nonsense). Right question is: Do You hear any differences between properly coded mp3 and lossless on normal listening levels. I think for 99.% of population answer is no. So my decision is to go with mp3 because of space savings zero quality reduction. cheers, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
seanadams;244673 Wrote: I think for 99.% of population answer is no. Have you done a poll then? So my decision is to go with mp3 because of space savings zero quality reduction. Imperceptible maybe, but never zero by definition. That fact bothers a great many of us, enough to warrant spending a measly $100 on a 500 GB hard drive. Perhaps I'm obsessive-compulsive, but the very idea that lurking among my music collection would be one killer MP3 where I could hear audible artifacts would drive me nuts. I'd have to listen to every track intently, not enjoying the music but listening for errors. And if I found one, are there more? I would rather the peace of mind of a lossless format and forget about it. Plus if I ever wanted to transcode to another format it would be easy. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Hi Mark, going lossless is by definition best quality, You can't go wrong that way. But MP3 is for me and I believe millions others very acceptable solution. cheers, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr wrote: Do You hear any differences between properly coded mp3 and lossless on normal listening levels. I think for 99.% of population answer is no. So my decision is to go with mp3 because of space savings zero quality reduction. I have a very serious stereo, I've paid tens of thousands of dollars to make sure it delivers every possible bit of quality. Disks are very cheap, 500 GB costs under $300. I have zero interest in reducing file size by 30% and then lose any quality. YMMV, etc. but most folks don't care about MP3 quality. If you accept the known loss of quality, then you may chose otherwise. Its just not worth it to me. And I do not agree with your zero quality reduction argument. The facts don't back that up. I'll agree that you can't tell the difference, or that its not important to you. But MP3 by design throws away signal. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;248302 Wrote: Hi Pat, no question about that mp3 is better quality then lossless (nonsense). Right question is: Do You hear any differences between properly coded mp3 and lossless on normal listening levels. Possibly, possibly not. But even *if* not now, I may improve something in my system which might reveal differences in the future. Cheap hard disc space is a very small price to pay for input signal integrity. Just as I used to look after my vinyl, I want to make sure that my system starts with the best signal possible. GIGO. In any case, even with the best will and intention in the world, mucking about with digital files in this way can and does introduce audible distortion, even if it is not intentional. Isn't that what started this thread in the first place? Isn't that what you want fixed? -- Fifer Fifer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;248302 Wrote: Do You hear any differences between properly coded mp3 and lossless on normal listening levels. I think for 99.% of population answer is no. IMHO, the answer is a little more complex than that. I believe that many who do not hear a difference could, but do not because: 1. They do not know what to listen for. Most could learn, and they might then understand some of the subliminal influences that lossy encoding most likely has on just about all listeners. 2. The source material has so many flaws that source flaws make it harder, especially for untrained listeners, to pick out the coding artifacts. Many popular recordings have relatively high distortion; since that flaw is so obvious its easy to focus on it and miss the more subtle CODEC flaws. 3. The playback system has flaws that tend to overshadow the CODEC flaws. Poor frequency response, high distortion, etc. Back when I started encoding my CDs to the hard drive, I considered 320 kbps MP3 and high-bitrate AAC, but I ultimately chose FLAC. Although I did some listening to all formats and found the differences to be subtle, maybe even imagined sometimes, I understand that my playback system will change with time, as well as my critical listening abilities, so I decided not to base a decision for a lossy format on my current system, listening abilities and a small sampling of source material. Hard drive space has been getting progressively more inexpensive as my collection grows, so it was not a hard decision for me to chose FLAC lossless. And another advantage of FLAC is that I'm not at the mercy of Microsoft (WMA lossless) or Apple (ALAC). -- Timothy Stockman Timothy Stockman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8867 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr wrote: Robin, it seems You live here on this forum.:) Actually, I read forum msgs via the gmane nntp interface. Anyway, my post is little joke to refresh thread, don't understand way you are so seriousangry. No need to refresh the thread - there's a case logged in the Slim Devices bug tracking system. I'm not angry, just sick of you going on about this bug. This is the Audiophile forum and I would hazard a guess that 99.999% of people here use flac, myself included, so we don't care about a bug with mp3 decoding. P.S. Robin Bowes;248291 Wrote: 2. Use flac - it's better than mp3 anyway. You know this for the fact, I mean you did double blind test. Yes, I know it for a fact. It's lossless, mp3 isn't = it's better, by definition. I can hear the difference between mp3 (192kbs VBR) and flac quite easily. All tests on hydrogenaudio means nothing to You? Nope. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;248325 Wrote: Nothing is wrong or right here, it's really question of choice. Agreed; everyone has the right to choose. sikahr Wrote: You want to be sure 100%, I believe my earsbrain. Timothy makes some very good points above in this respect. Our senses are very easily fooled and are quite capable of being both conditioned and trained. We might hear differences, but not notice that we are hearing differences. I was on a training course recently at which we sere shown a video and told to check a particular activity. At the end, we were asked not about that activity, but if we noticed the gorilla. What gorilla?, we all wondered until shown the video again and wondered how we could have missed the man in the gorilla suit who wandered across the set as we all focused on what we were instructed to. If our eyes can miss so much, then so I suspect can our ears, at least until we are told or trained to hear it. -- Fifer Fifer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Folks, nothing is wrong to go lossless. I don't want to argue with you about your decision to go lossless. It's totally super duper OK. But I go with MP3 because of space reduction, and results of my listening tests. Nothing is wrong or right here, it's really question of choice. You want to be sure 100%, I believe my earsbrain. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Fifer;248329 Wrote: Agreed; everyone has the right to choose. Timothy makes some very good points above in this respect. Our senses are very easily fooled and are quite capable of being both conditioned and trained. We might hear differences, but not notice that we are hearing differences. I was on a training course recently at which we sere shown a video and told to check a particular activity. At the end, we were asked not about that activity, but if we noticed the gorilla. What gorilla?, we all wondered until shown the video again and wondered how we could have missed the man in the gorilla suit who wandered across the set as we all focused on what we were instructed to. If our eyes can miss so much, then so I suspect can our ears, at least until we are told or trained to hear it. I've seen that video too...if you look very carefully I believe the gorilla is weearing an iPod :o) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;248350 Wrote: I've seen that video too...if you look very carefully I believe the gorilla is weearing an iPod :o) I missed that the second time round too. ;) -- Fifer Fifer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Fifer;248363 Wrote: I missed that the second time round too. ;) It's easy to miss. Look for a small amount of lossy compression around the left ear. I think the conversation went like this: Keeper would you like some fruit? Gorilla Banana Keeper I only have this Apple -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
On a more serious note, I think MP3's days on this planet are numbered. I mean, it's only a matter of time before storage/bandwidth is so cheap that nobody will be bothered to compress anything. Anyone remember the early days on the WWW/Internet? It's rather different these days. Given that compresssion=effort and the tendency of human endeavour over time is to reduce (or even eliminate) effort I think this is inevitable. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;248294 Wrote: You know this for the fact, I mean you did double blind test. All tests on hydrogenaudio means nothing to You? You mean there are tests that show FLAC is better than MP3? wow! can you post a link? -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
funkstar;248380 Wrote: You mean there are tests that show FLAC is better than MP3? wow! can you post a link? No, I mean there are test that shows that mp3 is transparent to lossless (flac...) cheers, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Phil Leigh;248370 Wrote: On a more serious note, I think MP3's days on this planet are numbered. I mean, it's only a matter of time before storage/bandwidth is so cheap that nobody will be bothered to compress anything. Anyone remember the early days on the WWW/Internet? It's rather different these days. Given that compresssion=effort and the tendency of human endeavour over time is to reduce (or even eliminate) effort I think this is inevitable. Hi Phil, maybe You are right. But You disregard online services which sell music already compressed, this is important factor in my opinion. My theory is that almost all music in the future will be compressed, only small circle of audiophiles will care about lossless music. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;248384 Wrote: My theory is that almost all music in the future will be compressed, only small circle of audiophiles will care about lossless music. I really think that the reverse will happen. Networks and the internet will become quicker, memory will continue to become cheaper and file sizes (as they have done since the dawn of computing) will continue to increase in size. Lossy compression algorithms for music will become obsolete. -- Fifer Fifer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;248384 Wrote: Hi Phil, maybe You are right. But You disregard online services which sell music already compressed, this is important factor in my opinion. My theory is that almost all music in the future will be compressed, only small circle of audiophiles will care about lossless music. Peace, Nenad nonononononononononono, that is my worst nightmare, and I'm not an audiophile. I have serious reservations with paying good money for lossy music - its bad enough that the source material is so badly compromised with the 'loudness wars'. For now I've compromised by only purchasing drm-free lossy formats (emusic). And there is a limited amount I can buy in flac format through zunior.com. Some of the major labels have recently started offering drm-free, hopefully it won't be much longer before they offer flac (or some other open-source lossless). Please please please don't propogate the idea that lossy formats are acceptable. If that kind of thinking persisted, we would all be working on calculators that fill an office. -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
I think all depends on future format of music at music online stores. Most people don't do transcoding. Peace, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;248398 Wrote: I think all depends on future format of music at music online stores. Most people don't do transcoding. Peace, Nenad Yep, it all depends on what the customer pays for. So far the prevailing trend has been towards increasing quality (from 32kbps, to 64, to 128, etc), and I don't see any reason for that to stop. As long as one provider is out there stealing market share with higher quality, the rest will follow. Never, ever, let the b#$tards think you will take less than 'one louder' (Spinal Tap reference - whoo that feels better, haven't got one out in a while!). -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
amazing how much attraction this thread is getting for the fact that nobody is interested in MP3 format. ;-) personally, i appreciate these guy's efforts, because my GF is not technically savvy enough to rip her music to any other format than MP3. that means that half our collection (~3000 songs) is in MP3 - for me that means it is a majorly important format. because of this, i have voted for the bug. i agree, it is great to see that the people INSIDE slimdevices take this feedback seriously. in this day and age where products are becoming more and more similar, customer service and acknowledgement is a BIG differentiator. please logitech/slimdevices: keep it that way! -- dcote dcote's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Hi dcote, You can try bug workaround listed above if you want ( tested only in 7.0). Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Hi dcote, thank you for listening. dcote;246053 Wrote: however: i can only hear the artifact if the track is quiet and the volume is turned WAY up. This is it. Bug is not showstoper but very annoying on hi-fi gear. My rough estimation is that generated noise is about -50 - -60 dB. cheers, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
In lieu of the found problem, I would like to convert MP3 to WAV before streaming the song to SqueezeBox. I was trying to do it through File Types in Server Settings and by modifying convert.conf file, but I failed miserably. Can someone help me please? :-) Thanks. -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
mvalera;245654 Wrote: Moving this to the audiophile forum... Mike MP3? Audiophile? Are you in a mischevious mood today Michael? ;) -- Fifer Fifer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=639 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
dcolak;245791 Wrote: In lieu of the found problem, I would like to convert on the fly MP3 to WAV before streaming the song to SqueezeBox. I was trying to do it through File Types in Server Settings and by modifying convert.conf file, but I failed miserably. Can someone help me please? :-) Thanks. Try this. In convert.conf add mp3 wav * * [madplay] --very-quiet --bit-depth=24 --output=wave:- $FILE$ and add madplay.exe to BIN server directory. Restart, and test MP3 playback. Unfortunatelly, this dont work OK, I get mix between music and noise. You might be better luck. Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Fifer;245803 Wrote: MP3? Audiophile? Are you in a mischevious mood today Michael? ;) I dare you to notice difference between 320 kbps and a wav! :-)) -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;245831 Wrote: Try this. In convert.conf add mp3 wav * * [madplay] --very-quiet --bit-depth=24 --output=wave:- $FILE$ and add madplay.exe to BIN server directory. Restart, and test MP3 playback. Unfortunatelly, this dont work OK, I get mix between music and noise. You might be better luck. Edit: It seems that this works OK, at least on slim 7.0 mp3 wav * * [madplay] --output=raw:- --replay-gain=audiophile --attenuate=-0 --very-quiet --bit-depth=16 $FILE$ Hvala Nenade. I'll give it a try! -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;245831 Wrote: Try this. In convert.conf add mp3 wav * * [madplay] --very-quiet --bit-depth=24 --output=wave:- $FILE$ and add madplay.exe to BIN server directory. Restart, and test MP3 playback. Unfortunatelly, this dont work OK, I get mix between music and noise. You might be better luck. Edit: It seems that this works OK, at least on slim 7.0 mp3 wav * * [madplay] --output=raw:- --replay-gain=audiophile --attenuate=-0 --very-quiet --bit-depth=16 $FILE$ Nenad Thanks. Where did you get madplay from? I visited a thousand open source sites and never found a simple option to download win32 executable. :-(( -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
dcolak;245879 Wrote: Thanks. Where did you get madplay from? I visited a thousand open source sites and never found a simple option to download win32 executable. :-(( So it's rare? See Rarewares.org then: http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-others.php 'This thread' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/archive/index.php/t-13677.html) makes that appear to be a Windows executable. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
snarlydwarf;245886 Wrote: So it's rare? See Rarewares.org then: http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-others.php 'This thread' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/archive/index.php/t-13677.html) makes that appear to be a Windows executable. Thanks. Unfortunately, it didn't work. Squeezebox reports problem can't open file for: songname I've disabled mp3 mp3 in File Types and added this line to convert.config: mp3 mp3 * * [madplay] --output=raw:- --replay-gain=audiophile --attenuate=-0 --very-quiet --bit-depth=16 $FILE$ -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Strange. It works for me on 7.0. Try restart machine and enable madplay at mp3 file type. Good luck. Nenad P.S. Nisi slucajno Damir #268;olak(moj kolega s posla)? :)) -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Must looks like this (NOKIA 770 skin): +---+ |Filename: ftypes.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3766| +---+ -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
Sorry for offtopic on Croatian: ivio Damire, ima imenjaka kod mene u Splitu pozdrav Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
sikahr;245894 Wrote: Strange. It works for me on 7.0. Try restart machine and enable madplay at mp3 file type. Good luck. Nenad P.S. Nisi slucajno Damir #268;olak(moj kolega s posla)? :)) It must be the version, I'll install the 7.0 and try it again. P.S. Ha, jesam Damir #268;olak, ali nismo kolege, zivim u #268;ileu! :-)) -- dcolak dcolak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Posible bug in built-in MP3 decoder - please verify
And now for my hosts audiophiles, mp3 decoding in full 24-bit, as promised in slimdevices promo material: mp3 flc * * [madplay] --output=wave:- --replay-gain=audiophile --attenuate=-0 --very-quiet --bit-depth=24 $FILE$ | [flac] -cs --totally-silent --compression-level-0 --endian big --sign signed --channels 2 --bps 24 --sample-rate 44100 - tested in 7.0 dare to compare with lossless? cheers, Nenad -- sikahr sikahr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14065 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40409 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
