Help with pack issues
Hi all, I need the expertise of experienced BMD owners. Here's my situation. I am lucky to be owned by a 9 month old male BMD, Henley (neutered). Usually we live in Syracuse, where I'm at school, but I'm spending the summer in Seattle with my sister, her husband and three dogs. These dogs are: 1). 12 yr.old Chessie - an old coot, deaf, and demanding, but somewhat oblivious (neutered) , 2) 2.5 yr old chessie/lab mix (neutered and the problem) and 3) 6 month old Mexican beach dog rescue - who knows what breed, but very much a pack dog (set to be neutered this month). I guess it's not surprising that the male chessie x has exhibited some nasty behavior towards Henley. The first bad incident was after I had dropped my sister and her husband at the airport on their vacation. I don't think it was food related, but as soon as I got in the house, the chessie went after Henley, I had to pull him off, and Henley ended up with a nasty ear wound that took about 3 weeks to heal and set me back $100. Henley has bared his teeth towards this dog, and sometimes this dog seems to defer to Henley, but mostly he's trying to put Henley in his place. Things flared up again today - my sister, before leaving for work gave them flip chips, and as soon as she left, the chessie came after Henley, lunged at him very aggressive and took the flippie away (I was still in bed, where Henley came with the treat, so also go the brunt of it!). There was also another close call after their feeding tonight. My sisters' oldest dog has a tendency to pick at her food, so it's often left out, while the two males try to jocky for position. Things seem a little better if I'm the one feeding all the dogs, which sometimes happens twice a day, but more often once a day. And today, when I had Henley and the Chessie x in my car, the Chessie seemed deferential to Henley. I know there are pack issues at play, and the Chessie has a right to assert his position; and Henley's at the bottom of the pack. I expected a few tough moments, but figured things would settle down, especially after the first blood-shedding. Are Berners not as sensitive to pack issues so Henley isn't getting the message? Or am I just spoiling him too much by keeping my nose in things? Is the Chessie entitled to continue drawing blood to assert his position, or is there a point when his human should take a stand on how far he can go? It's one thing to growl and lunge, but it seems to be another when he hangs on. The first time Henley defecated, since then there have been a few incidents (like today), when he emits a strong odor. Is it time for me to keep Henley crated? Both males play with the female puppy - Henley more often, with the Chessie often keeping a close eye and getting after Henley when he thinks Henley's gone too far. How should I handle this situation? Besides the strife with the dogs, it's created quite a problem between me and my sister. HELP! Deborah Robinson and Henley.
Re: Help with pack issues
First of all this has nothing to do with you and you sister. This has to do with dominance issues between the dogs. This sounds like it could be related to food and treats and could possibly be easily remedied by following some basic maintenance rules at meal time AND/OR treat times. There is no reason why the dogs need rawhide chips, except that you may enjoy giving them, but understanding that it will breed this animosity, you need to decide how important it really is, as there is really no value to it nutritionally. OK, first of all, bloodshed is NEVER a good sign and while many people ascribe to the let them fight it out technique , I do not. If you are not sure, ask yourself, If my dog lost the fight and were critically injured or killed, would I still be ok with it? Your answer would probably be a resounding, NO, so please avoid this method. I wonder what you do differently at mealtimes that makes it better than when your sisiter feeds. Do you feed your boy in another room? Personally, I would suspect that my recommendation at this pint would be that you buy a crate, put it in another room, and feed Henly in there. Keep him in there until the other dogs have calmed down and are finished eating. Follow the same procedure if and when you give treats. Your sisters dogs are the pack and it may take months before your boy could find his place, and by then you will probably be ready to leave. In case for some reason this is not entirely food related and your sister's dog decides to become protective over something inanimate like the remote, you may need to keep your boy separate when you are not able to supervise. Just my two cents. Briana
Re: Help with pack issues
Reposted, I don't know if it's just my server, but sometimes AOL garbles everything! - Pat First of all this has nothing to do with you and you sister. This has to do with dominance issues between the dogs. This sounds like it could be related to food and treats and could possibly be easily remedied by following some basic maintenance rules at meal time AND/OR treat times. There is no reason why the dogs need rawhide chips, except that you may enjoy giving them, but understanding that it will breed this animosity, you need to decide how important it really is, as there is really no value to it nutritionally. OK, first of all, bloodshed is NEVER a good sign and while many people ascribe to the let them fight it out technique , I do not. If you are not sure, ask yourself, If my dog lost the fight and were critically injured or killed, would I still be ok with it? Your answer would probably be a resounding, NO, so please avoid this method. I wonder what you do differently at mealtimes that makes it better than when your sisiter feeds. Do you feed your ! boy in another room? Personally, I would suspect that my recommendation at this pint would be that you buy a crate, put it in another room, and feed Henly in there. Keep him in there until the other dogs have calmed down and are finished eating. Follow the same procedure if and when you give treats. Your sisters dogs are the pack and it may take months before your boy could find his place, and by then you will probably be ready to leave. In case for some reason this is not entirely food related and your sister's dog decides to become protective over something inanimate like the remote, you may need to keep your boy separate when you are not able to supervise. Just my two cents. Briana - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rmlyc3Qgb2YgYWxsIHRoaXMgaGFzIG5vdGhpbmcgdG8 etc. Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Utility training
Cindi, The best resources I have found for Utility training are: Books: Steppin' Up to Success (3 bk series) - by Terri Arnold (see her website www.terriarnpld.com Competition Obedience: A Balancing Act - by Adele Yunck and Judy Byron Beyond Basic Dog Training - by Diane Bauman (older book) Videos by Janice Demello and Ann Marie Silverton all are available from www.dogwise.com and some from Boris's book site: http://members.rogers.com/bernerboris/bernerbooks.html The very best thing to do is take private lessons from a good instructor, one who has at LEAST a couple UD's (Utility Dog title) and best still a UDX (Utility Dog Excellent) or OTCH (Obedience Trial Champion)see the AKC's website (www.akc.org)for the Rules and Regulations fo Obedience Trials...and write to them to get a copy of them. Can tplay hte game if you dont know the rules! :-) How do you find a good instructor in your area? I would go to a big trial in your area and set up a chair outside the Open B and Utility B rings. Watch the class, take notes in the catalogue on what you like. Then see who gets placements in the class. Go up to these people after the 1st thru 4 th places are given out, compliment them on how well thier dogs did, and ask if they give private lessons or who they would recommend who does. Expect to drive a bit, I drive nearly 3 hrs each way now. Even if you cant get weekly lessons, a couple times a month is good. It is s much fun. Best of luck!!! Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy Perc) and foster Bernerboy: Brew/Bruin
Re: Help with pack issues
In a message dated 7/10/2003 1:04:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are Berners not as sensitive to pack issues so Henley isn't getting the message? Or am I just spoiling him too much by keeping my nose in things? Is the Chessie entitled to continue drawing blood to assert his position, or is there a point when his human should take a stand on how far he can go? Deborah, I dont think Berners are any more or less sensitive than other breeds to pack issues. And I think letting the dogs work things out on their own is perfectly fine IF no one is getting hurt and the conflicts are over fairly quickly (5 seconds or so.) But here you may need to manage the situation and keep them seperate anytime one has food like feed in seperate rooms and keep one crated or in a closed room when you are not home just for everyones piece of mind (And keeping leashes attached and dragging in the house will help you to seperate them if another fight occurs) good luck!! Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy Perc) and foster Bernerboy: Brew/Bruin
Re: Help with pack issues
1) Feed separately. NO high value food or treat items in the mixed pack. Period. 2) If it is a lot of talk and noise, I step back. If it is a true dogfight, I break it up. 3) Not every male dog can tolerate other males or new males or young males in his space--there are no male dog visitors allowed at my house, no male fosters. We can meet other males just fine off the home turf. You may just need to keep them separated for the summer. A pain, but safer for all. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Cancer-free!
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help for pack issues--more
forwarded for Vilma: Cindi, I forgot the most important part, if you are going to be in this household long term, I would strongly suggest seeing a qualified animal behavorist for some consultations -- one who uses POSITVE methods to help you work thru the issues w/ the dogs. (check out www.apdt.com for references in your area or see a university vet school's behavioral science dept -- I dont remember where you live??) Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy Perc) and foster Bernerboy: Brew/Bruin Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Cabela's
Thank you Vilma I'll do my 'international bit' and 'cause Cabela's a bit of bad publicity from this end! I wrote, politely requesting they stop this practise but I see the error of my ways! I see I need to explain to them that all my european dedicated camping buddies will never order from their store! Interesting response people are getting from Cabelas. Noteably they require the breeders to have all the right credentials BUT what do they require from the buyers Oh yes, just the money Rhona and Louis in The Netherlands __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: BERNER-L digest 4491
My Berner does have allergies, he sneezes and has a runny nose usually during allergy season. We have given him allergy medicine and it seems to work in the short term to keep his runny nose and sneezing to a minimum. Annika From: "edward abbati" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Allergies Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:43:02 -0700 Does anyone have a berner (6 years old, female) with allergies? Our dog is constantly licking her paws so the vet gave us some allergy pills. We tried them but they do not seem to work. Now the vet wants us to change her diet and us Hill ZD Altra food. I hate to go thru a million different treatments - any help or suggestions. Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
Use of Sherpa Bags????
I'm about to send a puppy to it's new home in a Sherpa bag. The pup was 20 lbs yesterday and we still have 5 days to go before the new owner arrives. Have any of you had problems getting a pup of this size to fit in a Sherpa? They are using Delta which doesn't seem to have a weight restriction but I'm starting to worry about the size of the pup. The Sherpa bag is 11 x 11 3/4 x 20 inches. I don't have it here so can't try test him in it physically. It's only a 90 minute direct flight so am hoping it will work. PS I'll share your comments and experiences with my buyer but take your names off the emails. Thanks for any help you can give us. I'm worried that they won't be able to get the pup home after flying out to me. Dawn Gabig, Classique Berners, Kansas City USA Our Website: http://ClassiqueBMD.homestead.com FREE Graphics: http://ClassiqueBMDs.homestead.com/graphics.html Heartland Club Website: http://www.hbmdc.org/
Note to Dogs
Another dog fancier sent this to me and I thought it was pretty cute. Enjoy! Karyn Waugh Dear Dogs, When I say to move, it means go someplace else, not switch positions with each other so there are still two dogs in the way. The dishes with the paw print are yours and contain your food. The other dishes are mine and contain my food. Please note, placing a paw print in the middle of my plate and food does not stake a claim for it becoming your food and dish, nor do I find that aesthetically pleasing in the slightest. The stairway was not designed by Nascar and is not a racetrack. Beating me to the bottom is not the object. Tripping me doesn't help, because I fall faster than you can run. I cannot buy anything bigger than a king size bed. I am very sorry about this. Do not think I will continue to sleep on the couch to ensure your comfort. Look at videos of dogs sleeping, they can actually curl up in a ball. It is not necessary to sleep perpendicular to each other stretched out to the fullest extent possible. I also know that sticking tails straight out and having tongues hanging out the other end to maximize space used is nothing but doggy sarcasm. My compact discs are not miniature frisbees. For the last time, there is not a secret exit from the bathroom. If by some miracle I beat you there and manage to get the door shut, it is not necessary to claw, whine, try to turn the knob, or get your paw under the edge and try to pull the door open. I must exit through the same door I entered. In addition, I have been using bathrooms for years, canine attendance is not mandatory. And finally, the proper order is kiss me, then go smell other dogs butt. I cannot stress this enough. It would be such a simple change for you guys to make. _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: BERNER-L digest 4491
Hi! We wil be on vacation in the Old Forge NY area august 17-22. Just wondering if there are any BMD activities going on? Also wanted to know if there are any good areas to bring our boy! He's going to be about 20 weeks old when we go there! Im sure he'll love the cool weather and shade trees! Tailwags and Belly Rubs The Costello Clan and Dunkin - Original Message - From: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:01 am Subject: BERNER-L digest 4491 BERNER-L Digest 4491 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Allergies by edward abbati [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: Allergies by Willem Wijnberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Deramaxx by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) RE: Deramaxx by Fray, Jason (NJ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) puppy sales at Cabela's by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Puppy Sales at Cabella's by Karen Aufdemorte [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: Puppy Sales at Cabella's by T Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) BMDCNV Picnic in Maine! by Martha Hoverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Fw: questionable tactics #221735-414501# by Jeanne Schoech [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: Quickie update+ on Beau by Jean Cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) fairy by Jordan S. Dill [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Response from Cabela's by Lisa Ebnet [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) response to Cabela's by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Happy 12th Birthday Haley and Winslow! by [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-type: multipart/digest; boundary=Boundary_(ID_owyUDB03Ajuxo/X1NCKbbQ) --Boundary_(ID_owyUDB03Ajuxo/X1NCKbbQ) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:43:02 -0700 From: edward abbati [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Allergies To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone have a berner (6 years old, female) with allergies? Our dog is constantly licking her paws so the vet gave us some allergy pills. We tried them but they do not seem to work. Now the vet wants us to change her diet and us Hill ZD Altra food. I hate to go thru a million different treatments - any help or suggestions. --Boundary_(ID_owyUDB03Ajuxo/X1NCKbbQ) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:44:21 +0200 From: Willem Wijnberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Allergies To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Edward, I have also an dog with allergies around her eyes from time to time its itching verry much. Deb Tripp told my to use verry strong thee [the same thee we drink our self] let it cole down and then put it 4 or 5 times a day on the paw,s and when the thee is dry again then put Aleo Vera gel [not parfumed ] on it. You can use this as long as your dog will likking her paw,s Dingo and Willem - Original Message - From: edward abbati [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:43 AM Subject: Allergies Does anyone have a berner (6 years old, female) with allergies? Our dog is constantly licking her paws so the vet gave us some allergy pills. We tried them but they do not seem to work. Now the vet wants us to change her diet and us Hill ZD Altra food. I hate to go thru a million different treatments - any help or suggestions. --Boundary_(ID_owyUDB03Ajuxo/X1NCKbbQ) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:54:05 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Deramaxx To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
FW: Selling pups in the store is bad practice #222218-415177#
They seem to change the response they send out to people. Sylvia Tucson, AZ -- From: Cabela's Customer Service [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:20:36 GMT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Selling pups in the store is bad practice #18-415177# Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the Sporting Dog Seminars recently held at the Cabelas Dundee Showroom location. The seminars are all directed to the sporting dog and include crate training, retrieval training, and what to look for in a puppy when purchasing a hunting dog, to name a few. There are a limited number of AKC registered sporting dog breeders on-hand as well, which are allowed to attend only after they have met stringent guidelines in place for the protection of each animals welfare. We respect your position, which appears to parallel our own, and have forwarded your comments and concerns to our Executive Management Team. Ron Email tracking number: 415177 --- Cabela's Customer Relations Customer Relations: Mon - Fri (6 am to 6pm); Sat (8 am to 3pm), MST Toll Free Ph # - 800-237- (U.S./Canadian residents) Direct Fax # - 308-254-6745 (U.S. residents) 308-254-7345 (International residents) Order Department: (24 Hours per Day, 7 Days per Week) Toll Free Ph # - 800-237- (U.S./Canadian residents) Toll Free Fax # - 800-496-6329 (U.S./Canadian residents) Direct Fax #- 308-254-2200 (International residents) --- Original Message --- From: Sylvia Katvala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 07/09/2003 01:52pm Central Standard Time (GMT - 5:00 ) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Selling pups in the store is bad practice It came to me attention that you sell dogs in your stores. Unfortunately this is not way to sell a dog. If this practice is not being stopped, than I'll not spend money in your stores. Sincerely, Sylvia Katvala -- Please do not remove your unique tracking number! -- #18-415177#
RE: Allergies
Hi, Dogs lick their paws for a variety of reasons and diet can be one of them, also contact allergy if she has been in contact with sprayed ground, a change of carpet or floor cleaner or insufficient rinsing of washed surfaces. If the feet are red and waxy between the toes you can try an anti-fungal treatment to clear it up. Also do not trim the hair between the toes as the spikey regrowth can be an irritant, only trim the base of the pads. Are her ears gunky as well or nice and clean? Is she displaying anxiety or otherwise a calm bitch. Have you changed diet in recent months and this is possibly a reaction to a new ingredient, are you feeding unhealthy treats such as processed rawhides and pig's ears and cow's feet. Do you use any of the plug in airfresheners or aerosol sprays in the home? There is much to investigate and review what is new in her environment:-) Check her feet for redness, erudite matter or calluses that might need biopsy. There are many allergy diets on the market and I have one dog fed Eukanuba Fish and Potato with added canned salmon, she does well on it. Many allergy diets are geared towards intestinal upset but a rule of thumb on finding out what ails a dog dietary wise is to use an elimination diet. This is where you feed products not normally found in regular kibble and these might be fish and potato or duck and sweet potato or venison or lamb and rice. This is done for a few weeks until everything is calmed down and then start to add one thing at a time until the allergy appears again. Then you know one of the culprits. Hill ZD is a good alternative but expensive for a large dog. Many people have switched to BARF and successfully got allergies to subside but I am not familiar with tackling that but there are some great people on this list that can help you if you choose to go that route:-) The allergy pills your vet has given you are probably prednisone which will provide relief and enable you to get things sorted out and under control from an environment point of view but it is important to work this out and wean off the drug slowly. If you notice a flareup you can give two Benedryl tablets three times a day for a short period and perhaps a lower dosage to get you through what might be only a seasonal problem. All the best:-) Rose -Original Message- From: edward abbati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 9, 2003 1:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Allergies Does anyone have a berner (6 years old, female) with allergies? Our dog is constantly licking her paws so the vet gave us some allergy pills. We tried them but they do not seem to work. Now the vet wants us to change her diet and us Hill ZD Altra food. I hate to go thru a million different treatments - any help or suggestions.
Fw: puppies for sale #222895-416117#
This is the original e-mail I sent to Cabela's, and at the bottom their response to me. I will also share my response back to them. Since sharing this e-mail with as many of my friends as I can, Cabela's has already received many more e-mails voicing their opinions about Cabela's. To Whom it May Concern: I write as an owner of dogs and a now FORMER shopper at Cabela's. I've read with disgust your practice of selling pups from the parking lot of your store. I've read the list of breeder requirements that you send as a response to all inquiries. It is a reasonable list, if were actuate. NO responsible breeder would EVER sell their puppies this way with no control over the fate of their puppies. The only people willing to do something like this is commercial breeders (AKA puppy millers and back yard breeders) I have been fighting this industry for years, watching as the dogs are becoming more and more health problematic and watching as the cruelty of the dogs become more and more acceptable. ANYONE that can condone what is happening here in the mid west is a sick, undeserving person. I challenge your store to visit ONE puppy mill, or ONE of your so called breeders facilities and you tell me if you would want your children getting a dog from one of these people. Also, anyone who purchases a dog this way is doing so on impulse. Impulse buying is a BIG reason why our shelters and humane societies are SO over crowded and why BILLIONS of dogs are put to death everyday. Instead of thinking about a purchase like this and making an informed decision, they buy the cute little puppy and find out AFTER the problems start that this is not an appropriate breed for their family. Then off Fido goes to the pound or into the back yard with no socialization until he becomes a menus. OR you could have this family thinking hey, Fido could be bred and we Fido sell the puppies back at Cabela's and make our money back. Now you have 3-10 times the people doing the exact same thing as the scum bags before them. Cabela's can stand tall and be proud that THEY have become part of the problem..instead of the solution like more responsible and respectable establishments. Rest assured that the pure breed dog community of RESPONSIBLE breeder will spread the word that Cabela's is intentionally destroying the efforts we have been making in the mid west trying to help the dogs AS WELL AS THE FAMILIES THAT BUY THEM. My hope is that who ever is responsible for making this very poor decision is the lucky new owner of one of these puppies, and that this puppy creates as big a problem for them as so many other families have had to deal with. Maybe it is time your company opened their eyes and had a look around the internet about some of your breeders and the conditions these poor animals live in..maybe your company should be more concerned about trying to help the animals instead of trying to kill them a little faster. Sincerely, a disgusted past shopper Amy R Kessler cc'd to a LOT of my friends Friends- I urge you to spread this as far as you can...and let Cabela's know what you think at the address this was sent to. I will show you all the form letter they have sent to everyone else who has made their opinions known. Amy - Original Message - From: Cabela's Customer Service [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:04 PM Subject: Re: puppies for sale #222895-416117# Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the Sporting Dog Seminars recently held at the Cabela's Dundee Showroom location. The seminars are all directed to the sporting dog and include crate training, retrieval training, and what to look for in a puppy when purchasing a hunting dog, to name a few. There are a limited number of AKC registered sporting dog breeders on-hand as well, which are allowed to attend only after they have met stringent guidelines in place for the protection of each animals welfare. We respect your position, which appears to parallel our own, and have forwarded your comments and concerns to our Executive Management Team. Ron Email tracking number: 416117
Fw: puppies for sale #222895-416117#
- Original Message - From: Amy Kessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cabela's Customer Service [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Jane Heggen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Penny Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:25 PM Subject: Re: puppies for sale #222895-416117# How can you say that you are on the same page as I am? A business that was interested in educating the public would have to have the attention of the person/people you are trying to teach, you have distracted them with cute little faces to look at and parents that have to listen to their kids beg for a pup. By allowing puppies to be on hand when you are supposedly trying to offer a service to the public, you have taught them how one should NOT go about buying a dog, who is, by the way, not a toy that can be returned or tossed into the trash like other such impulse items purchased at your store. A responsible dog owner researches the breed they are interested in THEN searches for a responsible breeder that is looking out for the welfare of their breed. Not a puppy miller/back yard breeder that is breeding to line their own pockets. Where will this breeder be when the problems start? GONE I guarantee it. Contract or not, these guys know HOW to get out of their contract and know that there is NO way to hold them to one. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Our breed club holds many events where we let people see and meet the dogs, get as much information as they want about them as well as a way to locate some one that is worthy of their interest. There are NEVER any puppies for sale at that moment to promote an impulse sale. Just for your own knowledge, being an AKC breeder, or having AKC dogs does NOT make you a good breeder. It is just a piece of paper that says the dog is suppose to be a pure bred dogeven that is not guaranteed. AKC is simply a registration club not a governing body! If you want something of value to put behind these people then I recommend you go to the National breed club and get a letter recommending the breeders you are showcasing. I highly doubt you will find that they support the people that are willing to sell their dogs out of a parking lot. Your company is absolutely NO different than a pet store selling poor quality puppies to unsuspecting families that come from less than scrupulous people. I am sure the public will show you what they think by the drop in sales as well as the drop in customers. I will continue to educate every one I come in contact with about how ignorant the management at Cabela's is as well as how self serving they are to put their profits above the values of another living being...man's best friend, except at Cabela's. Amy Kessler
Fw: questionable tactics #221735-414501#
This is the most recent email I have received from Cabelas concerning their puppy sale program... Note it is now put in the context of seminar. Jeanne - Original Message - From: Cabela's Customer Service [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:31 AM Subject: Re: questionable tactics #221735-414501# Dear Ms. Schoech, Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the Sporting Dog Seminars recently held at the Cabela's Dundee Showroom location. The seminars are all directed to the sporting dog and include crate training, retrieval training, and what to look for in a puppy when purchasing a hunting dog, to name a few. There are a limited number of AKC registered sporting dog breeders on-hand as well, which are allowed to attend only after they have met stringent guidelines in place for the protection of each animals welfare. We respect your position, which appears to parallel our own, and have forwarded your comments and concerns to our Executive Management Team. Sincerely, Dustin Email tracking number: 414501 --- Cabela's Customer Relations Customer Relations: Mon - Fri (6 am to 6pm); Sat (8 am to 3pm), MST Toll Free Ph # - 800-237- (U.S./Canadian residents) Direct Fax # - 308-254-6745 (U.S. residents) 308-254-7345 (International residents) Order Department: (24 Hours per Day, 7 Days per Week) Toll Free Ph # - 800-237- (U.S./Canadian residents) Toll Free Fax # - 800-496-6329 (U.S./Canadian residents) Direct Fax #- 308-254-2200 (International residents) --- Original Message --- From: Jeanne Schoech [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 07/09/2003 03:09pm Central Standard Time (GMT - 5:00 ) To: Cabela's Customer Service [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: questionable tactics Your form letter sounds good, but in practice it is a great many failings. It would seem the seller is jumping through a number of hoops, but I would like to point out the errors of this and thus, the harm which is done to the buyer as well as to the well-being of the puppies. My response is ** The guidelines are as follows; 1. Breeders Must register with Cabelas before displaying or selling their puppies. **Is a background check done. What insures that this registration is not done by a puppy miller, irresponsible breeder, etc? 2. Breeders Must have a suitable exercise pen for displaying puppies. No puppies will be sold out of the back of any vehicle. **suitable exercise pen does not address weather conditions, particularly the heat... What about water, etc? Who is Cabela's is monitoring this? 3. Breeders shall include an offer to refund the buyers money and/or replace the puppy if it develops health problems. Breeders shall reimburse the buyers documented related veterinary expenses in the case that health problems arise within seven days of purchase. **Sound great.. The key word in the above is offer. Is there a written, legal contact as to such. Health problems rarely turn up within a week of purchase. I personally know of a lab breeder (that is questionable) who breeds his dysplasic bitch which has resulted in crippled pups. Genetic problems - some hereditary cancers, auto-immune problems, and hip elbow problems - do not appear until much later. I assure you that most reputable breeders WILL have a contract and WILL follow up on their puppies. They do no need Cabela's parking lot to do so - nor would they. 4. Breeders will provide registration and pedigree records showing breeders name, address, and telephone number for each puppy sold. **When? At the time of sale? Pretty easy to say, Oh.. forgot the papers... Will put in the mail. Is Cabelas going to monitor this? 5. Breeders will sell only puppies of sound health and temperament. **Hope so, but health and temperament are often not determined at the time of sale... Perhaps a temperament evaluation is in order AND a veterinarian's statement of examination good health - proof of vaccinations, worming, etc. 6. Breeders will provide all genetic test results for the sire and dam and be able to answer questions about heredity problems in their breeding stock for several generations back. **What genetic tests? I assume to prove parentage. This should also be a written document. NO puppy should be allow to be sold without Cabela's review of all paper work. Do you have the staff to do this? 7. Breeders shall supply vaccination worming and health records for buyers. **Another easy one... Ah gee...forgot that stuff at home. Will get it in the mail. Cabelas, as acting broker, should review these documents before sale - before the puppies are brought to the premises. 8. Breeders shall honestly disclose genetic and potential faults of their puppies as well as their strengths.
Re: Cabela's
I too, blasted Cabela's and got the same, inane, stupid, pat answer. So I let them have it again. I think unrelenting protest is the only way. Cheryl Hogue Research Coordinator VetGen 1 800 483-8436 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: www.vetgen.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cabela's
Well, that, and getting the word out to other dogs lists, and getting the word out to serious hunting friends that shop at Cabela's and who are actually very caring and responsible dog owners. Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA - Original Message - From: Research Coordinator [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think unrelenting protest is the only way. Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Defecating in the house...
Hello All! Another question to those with more experience than I- My soon-to-be 5 mo. female has been doing wonderfully with house training-no poop accidents for at least a month, and no pee accidents for a week( and those were my fault entirely!) Early Tuesday morning, she pooped in a corner of our bedroom-she knew she had been bad and looked very contrite about it-and sometime late Wednesday evening she pooped in my daughter's bedroom (slightly runny stuff) after coming in from playing in the yard for 20 mins. with my husband. She is teething, could this have something to do with runny poop/not being able to control it, or is she starting an adolescent phase? I have not changed her diet, though she was inside more than usual since Sunday. Any suggestions? Oh, she usually sleeps next to the bed, and she knows that the bedroom is our den. I haven't crated her since her first week with us, she was doing so well! But I brought home a wire crate, we do want to show her and she needs to get used to it, and I will be having a baby in the next 2 weeks, will it be too much to start her in it now? Thanks in advance for your thoughts, Darcy and Trista You can see her litter photos here: http://www.geocities.com/barkingbunch/ximena03/index2.htm Click on week 7 to see her individually! Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
Re: Cabela's
Hello All, I'd also suggest finding out who is on their Board of Directors and sending mail directly to them - especially the outside directors. Robin Hamme ShadyOak BMDs Evansville, IN, USA
FW: Sporting Dog Seminars
FYI -- Just contributing to the Cabela's email campaign... will be interesting to see what kind of response i get... Jennifer -Original Message- From: Jennifer Burgess [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Sporting Dog Seminars Dear Cabela's Executive Management: I'm writing to express my concern and disappointment in Cabela's for your irresponsible decision to allow breeders to make puppies available for sale at your recent Sporting Dog Seminars. I have been a Cabela's customer for many years and I am also the responsible and proud owner of both a sporting dog, a 5 year old Labrador Retriever, and a 1 year old Bernese Mountain Dog. Both of these dogs were purchased through reputable breeders (far outside my area) after considerable research and review by me. Please note: I also had to be screened by these breeders to make sure I could provide an appropriate and responsible home and environment for these dogs. I'm not sure I can ever bring myself to patronize Cabela's again if you are going to condone impulse puppy buying and allow irresponsible breeders access to your facilities to peddle their puppies. This type of activity could potentially have disastrous long-term results. Responsible breeders (those with the future and the best interests of the breed in mind) are always willing to discuss the breed, pros and cons, responsibilities of ownership, etc., in an appropriate forum or one-on-one with potential dog owners. With proper research and follow through by both the potential puppy buyer and the breeder (the screening and qualifying should go both ways!) hopefully breeding problems and unhappy owners -- and ultimately abandoned or abused dogs -- can all be avoided. But never should there be an open marketplace allowing disreputable breeders to take advantage of impulse buyers who are not qualified. No reponsible breeder would participate in this type of activity and no truly responsible trainer would condone it either. Anyone involved in this has to be a puppy mill or a backyard breeder interested strictly in money and not the long-term viability of the breed. I read this statement on your web site: Cabela's is committed to providing quality products, value, service, and guaranteed customer satisfaction to outdoorsmen and women throughout the world. With over 40 years of service to our customers, our goals remain the same: a good deal, a fair shake, and better service with quality products at competitive prices. That's what Cabela's is about - today, yesterday, and for the future. I implore you to take your own words to heart and be responsible about the future of these wonderful sporting dogs... let's work together to make sure they get a good deal, a fair shake and that we have in mind their best interests for today, yesterday, and for the future. Please support responsible breeding and dog ownership and through your words and your deeds -- please, no more breeder displays and puppy sales -- help us fight the battle against irresponsible breeding and sales practices. I will reconsider my decision to boycott Cabela's products once I'm sure your management understands the magnitude of this problem and does something about it! Thank you for your prompt attention. I look forward to your response and hope I don't get the same form letter I've gotten copied on by countless other responsible dog owners like me who are asking you to reconsider your position on this subject. Regards, Jennifer Burgess Jennifer Burgess Director of Marketing Elvis Presley Enterprises, Inc. 3734 Elvis Presley Blvd. Memphis, TN 38116 901-332-3322 (office) 901-344-3119 (fax) http://www.elvis.com
RE: Defecating in the house...
Forwarded for Vilma: In a message dated 7/10/2003 2:59:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: she knew she had been bad and looked very contrite about it Darcy, Dogs do not know they are bad and do not feel contrite -- these are abstractions -- and dogs are not capable of abstract thought (many humans haven't reached the level of abstract thought yet either.) However, dogs are incredibly attuned to body language and voice tones and they know when you are upset ...they will act submissive to try and appease you. And she could feel poorly in general if she has diarrhea. Any suggestions? If stools remain loose you might consider a few Immodium tablets and if no improvement, see your vet. Make sure she doesn't get dehydrated from the loose stools, especially in the summer heat. As far as the pooping in the house goes, just go back to the beginning of housetraining w/ her for a few weeks to review. Basically just keep an eye on her 24/7 whenever she is not in a crate so she cant have any more accidents you don't interrupt, just like you would a brand new puppy. You can also use an umbilical tether to be able to always know where she is -- keep her on a 6 ft leash in the house and attach this to your waist so she goes where ever you go. I haven't crated her since her first week with us, she was doing so well! But I brought home a wire crate, we do want to show her and she needs to get used to it, and I will be having a baby in the next 2 weeks, will it be too much to start her in it now? Start her in slowly, a few seconds at a time, very gradually increase the time insidetempt her to run in there w/ frequent tasty treats tossed in for her and eventually feed meals inside. Do not force her, let her choose on her own to go in that cozy little den w/ the soft blankets, special treats and fun toys. Put a Kong stuffed w/ cheese/peanut butter in there for her to work on or a frozen raw bone. Special things she gets at no other time. Go slowly. Wow, 2 babies at once -- a puppy and a human. You are gonna be exhausted! Hang in there Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy Perc) and foster Bernerboy: Brew/Bruin
Berners in Stores
Dear L'ers, Please don't flame me for asking this. I have only known about puppy mills for about 2 years, when I started research bernese mountain dogs. I think they are terrible and I fully support efforts against them. It sounded from the things that camping store said that they required quite a lot from breeders. So, I was wondering what is it that is so bad about selling pups in this store? I have this gut feeling it is wrong but if someone asked me why I wouldn't know what to say. As I said, I am just learning about this so please don't attack my ignorance. I just want to understand if the issue is bad breeding or bad buyers or what. Thank you, Radha Iyengar __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
RE: Berners in Stores
Radha, Excellent question! And I think it's one that a few people have addressed in their emails to Cabela's. I think the biggest problem some of us have with the situation is that stores sell to anyone with money. A pet store is only interested in the sale, they are not motivated by the long term well being of the puppy being sold. Any breeder selling by means of a pet store does not care about where that puppy goes, is not planning to keep track of any health issues for that puppy, is not going to provide any mentoring or support to the buyer, and will not even know if that puppy is no longer wanted. No reputable breeder will knowingly sell their puppies through a pet shop. As for Cabela's, the breeders may be meeting some requirements, but has Cabela's determined what genetic tests are required for which breed? Will the breeders keep in touch with the puppy buyers? Will they provide any support? Would they be contacted in 10 months when the adolescent monster is no longer wanted? I doubt it. The flea market quality of the Puppy Days isn't likely to foster any breeders who are interested in long term welfare of their dogs, and it isn't likely to foster any buyers who are making carefully considered decisions. Keep asking those questions, we all learn more when you do! Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
Brazilian berner sites
Hi Berner folks from all over the world I am happy to let you know that Bernese breeders in Brazil are establishing the breed club and have been doing a lot as far as public education is concerned. A national breed rescue is also being established. To see some Brazilian berners, click on http://www.bernese.com.br/ a site developed by breeders who are in the Brazilian berner list, and who have done a lot to promote consciousness in the public who comes looking for those cute dogs. http://www.canilmdiberna.hpg.ig.com.br/ is another great site , and features the person I bought Doppo from, a fantastic person who is working hard to establish the breed club, regulations, norms, etc, in Brazil Best Simone de Lima Brasilia DF Brazil and the gang: Mali (lab mix from mspca) Doppo (BMD) Gimli (mino schanuzer) Godot (cat) Aria (foster basset hound) and Kiara (newly adopted rescue irish setter) - Original Message - From: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:14 PM Subject: BERNER-L digest 4492 BERNER-L Digest 4492 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: BERNER-L digest 4491 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Help with pack issues by Deborahr34 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Help with pack issues by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: Help with pack issues by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Utility training by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: Help with pack issues by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: Help with pack issues by Eileen Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Cancer-free! by Lorece Aitken [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) help for pack issues--more by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Cabela's by Rhona Vantine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: BERNER-L digest 4491 by Annika Dobrski [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Use of Sherpa Bags by gabig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Note to Dogs by Karyn Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: BERNER-L digest 4491 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) FW: Selling pups in the store is bad practice #18-415177# by Sylvia Katvala [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) RE: Allergies by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Fw: puppies for sale #222895-416117# by Amy Kessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Fw: puppies for sale #222895-416117# by Amy Kessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Fw: questionable tactics #221735-414501# by Jeanne Schoech [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Selling puppies...... (fwd)
I sent a letter to Cabala's - we regularly used to order from them, as well as my son and his wife. I told them that we would take our business elsewhere because of their irresponsible practice of selling puppies in their store. This is the form response I got - they were soliciting my business. I told them NO THANK YOU - we would not be shopping at Cabala's until they stopped taking advantage of cute puppies at their store. They seem to be changing their letters as the day goes on, or they have a series of letters that randomly goes out to people. Joye Neff and Nick (and Ben - German Shorthair) Mt. Lebanon, Pittsburgh, PA -- Forwarded Message --r Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:26 PM +r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]r To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Selling puppies..r Thank you for visiting Cabela's website and taking the time to correspond with us. This is an AUTO RESPONSE confirming we have received, and forwarded, your e-mail to the appropriate personnel for review. It is our goal to provide responses to your specific questions within 24 business hours. However, if you find you require more immediate assistance at this time, please contact us at the numbers provided at the bottom of this page. When you open up Cabela's website, you open up a world of possibilities. Listed below are only a few options available to you at Cabelas.com. - Sign up for The Cabela's Connection, our new e-mail newsletter. Click here to subscribe: https://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/registration/newsletter-home.j html - Interested in receiving a free Cabela's catalog? It is easy to do from our website. Just fill out the on-line application by clicking here: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/catalog/catalog-request.jhtml Again, we thank you for visiting with us and sincerely hope your Cabela's visit has been a pleasant experience! Cabela's Customer Relations Customer Relations: Mon - Fri (6 am to 6pm); Sat (8 am to 3pm), MST Toll Free Ph # - 800-237- (U.S./Canadian residents) Direct Fax #- 308-254-6745 (U.S. residents) 308-254-7345 (International residents) Order Department: (24 Hours per Day, 7 Days per Week) Toll Free Ph # - 800-237- (U.S./Canadian residents) Toll Free Fax # - 800-496-6329 (U.S./Canadian residents) Direct Fax # - 308-254-2200 (International residents) !-- $$NAS 40$$ -- -- End Forwarded Message --r
Re: Use of Sherpa Bags????
I have flown from Canada to Arkansas twice (2001 and 2003) with a Berner pup in a medium Sherpa 11 x 11 x 19. Both puppies were just under 8 weeks and each weighed 18 pounds. The Sherpa fit exactly under a Delta seat. Perfect rides/trips both times! One of these trips was less than a month ago, mid-June and all went well. I will gladly answer further question if you wish. Gail Miller Cynosure Bernese in Arkansas [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: gabig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Berner-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: Use of Sherpa Bags I'm about to send a puppy to it's new home in a Sherpa bag. The pup was 20 lbs yesterday and we still have 5 days to go before the new owner arrives. Have any of you had problems getting a pup of this size to fit in a Sherpa? They are using Delta which doesn't seem to have a weight restriction but I'm starting to worry about the size of the pup. The Sherpa bag is 11 x 11 3/4 x 20 inches. I don't have it here so can't try test him in it physically. It's only a 90 minute direct flight so am hoping it will work. PS I'll share your comments and experiences with my buyer but take your names off the emails. Thanks for any help you can give us. I'm worried that they won't be able to get the pup home after flying out to me. Dawn Gabig, Classique Berners, Kansas City USA Our Website: http://ClassiqueBMD.homestead.com FREE Graphics: http://ClassiqueBMDs.homestead.com/graphics.html Heartland Club Website: http://www.hbmdc.org/
GROWING PAINS ???
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RE: Help with pack issues
Hi Deborah, Oh yes you have got a problem:-) Chessies are tough dogs and you and Henley are the visitors, this is not a long term arrangement so you must honour the house rules and fit in as best you can. I would not leave my male dog neutered or otherwise alone in the company of an established pack of three dogs. Either keep him crated or in a separate room when you and another person cannot be there to supervise them. If you leave them to work this out on their own fur will fly and injuries will happen. Just because the boys are neutered does not make them mellow pussycats. Boys raised together can tolerate and fix their pack order but a visiting adolescent male has to be sorted and this may not always be very nice! Don't let the dogs spoil your holiday with your sister, recognise that these two tolerate each other on a very limited basis and control the situation. If your sister is going to throw food treats on the way out of the house small wonder WW3 hasn't broken out but it's her house and her rules for her dogs. Keep Henley in your room at night or crated or make sure you're up and about when she leaves for work. On neutral ground like a park you and your sister could probably let them interact more freely but on Chessie's home turf he is to be King of the Hill. While it is essential to break up hostilities make sure you don't side with the loser as that will only make the leading dog feel he has to have this battle again. Remain calm and when trying the two dogs together leave their leashes attached to buckle collars so you and the other person can haul them apart if they get physical without risk of being bitten. Remember when dogs are angry with each other they are not remembering their human bite inhibition training and many an owner has got bitten by getting in the way. Berners are lovely dogs but very tenacious and not wilting flowers when a good punch up is happening, don't let those good looks fool you:-)) I live with twelve dogs and there are days when I'm worn out monitoring the in-pack dynamics. You should try a few Berner bitches all with PMS at the same time for some real fun!!:-)) Rose T.
Cabelas
Hi, I think another approach to Cabelas would be to encourage them to sponsor field trial events and demonstrations of hunting dogs' skills, to run information booths about the various types of breeds typically found in field work and to educate the public as to whether or not these breeds are suited to urban life. Invite them to embrace the breeders who will take the time to educate the public without having an ex-pen of puppies on hand. The type of breeders who welcome people to visit their facilities and those that can boast of field trial acheivements, those that operate an interview and suitability system. Far better for the stores to be associated with the creme de la creme of the sporting dog world than a few BYBs selling puppies of questionable heritage. They could gain kudos by sponsoring Sporting Groups at large venues and having a booth with some of their outdoor and country gear. Many dog people have a big need for tough outdoor clothing and it is in these venues that they might reap greater profit than a few $50 vouchers tied to a puppy's purchase. Another aspect to be considered is if a puppy bought in a Cabelas parking lot sanctioned by the store turns into a fear biter could not the store be held liable or is there perhaps some waiver to be signed by the purchaser. Rose T.
