Re: Part of Parrot Act Ruled Unconstitutional

[David Hobby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> For the first time, a federal judge has declared unconstitutional a  parrot
> with an almost unparalleled power to
> communicate with people.
...

Excellent mixing of two posts.  Amazing job!
A local radio station has a contest where they do this to
two songs, and ask callers to name the two that were mixed.

---David
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Re: Moving: Irregulars & book questions

[David Hobby]

Deborah Harrell wrote:
> 
> I'm moving into the foothills this week - a situation
> presented that involves taking care of 5 Arabians and
> their barn, with a caretaker apt (that is at least as
> big as the place I'm in now) attached.
>   Manna from heaven.  Truly.

Wow.  Good for you.

> -Macintosh Performa 6220CD/75  16/1 GB

Don't know...

> -Hewlett Packard Pavillion 6535 "designed for Windows
> 98," w/ Intel Celeron sticker

Hey, don't laugh!  I still use Windows 98.  (It's
familiar, and later versions are not much better for what
I do.)  I bet it would be fine.

> Books-gifts received: to read or not to
> read/keep/move?
> -Greg Bear's _Slant_ (inclined to try unless told to
> toss)

Read.  Pretty good.

---David
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Re: My .sig (vs fair use)

[David Hobby]

Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
> 
> > Unless anyone here is thinking of doing anything like that, don't worry
> > about it.  I added it to my default .sig so it appears on all my
> > messages, but will get it straightened out soon.  Everyone over there is
> > still (understandably) upset over what has happened, so we are probably
> > all overreacting just a bit right now.
> 
> How about adding an exception for archiving mailing lists, to keep your
> list managers comfortable?

Not that I'm a lawyer, but I don't buy that one CAN stop
their posts from being copied by copyrighting them.  The average
email is quite short--couldn't one copy the entire thing under
fair use?  (And if I just want to embarrass someone, I can make do
with just a fraction of their email.)
Now if you were to post an original novel in serialized 
form, it would probably violate copyright to take all your posts,
paste them together, and pass it on.

A reference:

http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/fair_use.html

---David
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Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)

[David Hobby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
> 
> It's too good of a pun to ignore. If our good Dr. Brin didn't plan it from
> the start,
> then it beats the record of no one at first recognizing that RU-486 was a bad
> pun.
> 
> (Are you for 86ing the fetus?)
...

Maybe.  I was always more impressed with the coincidence
with the number of the processor chip.  (And just finished _Darwin's
Radio_, which mentions "RU-pentium".  Groan.)

---David
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Re: Physics Quiz

[David Hobby]

"Ronn!Blankenship" wrote:
...
> >
> >And the grading is off--I answered "false" to this one, and got
> >it wrong, because the correct answer is "false":
> >
> > >  7) To produce heat, the Sun burns hydrogen in a combustion reaction.
> > > Your Answer: false
> > >   View Explanation
> 
> So what was their "explanation" for claiming that the correct answer should
> be "true"?
> 
> -- Ronn!  :)

Read carefully.  They claimed the correct answer was 
"false".  
---David

It depends what you mean by "combustion".  : )
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Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?

[David Hobby]

Julia Thompson wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote:
> 
> > No, I won't define "sphere".
> 
> And I suppose you won't define "noncompressible" and "cow", either.
> 
> Julia

These must be from a different Poincare Conjecture.

---David

(Insert bad "homogenized" joke here.)
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Re: Physics Quiz

[David Hobby]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
> 
> http://intuitor.com/physics_test/PhysicsSavvy.html
> 
> 77.5 %
> Embarrassing
> 
> xponent
> But At Least I Passed Without Study  Maru
> rob

I got 90-something, after spending lots of work trying
to see how picky to be in answering the questions.  It does not
help that the technical terms are often avoided, and one is left
guessing what was meant.

And the grading is off--I answered "false" to this one, and got
it wrong, because the correct answer is "false":
 
>  7) To produce heat, the Sun burns hydrogen in a combustion reaction. 
> Your Answer: false 
>   View Explanation 

---David
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Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?

[David Hobby]

"Ronn!Blankenship" wrote:
> 
> Very good!
> 
> In fact, so good I'll let you explain the rest of the statement of the
> Poincare Conjecture . . .
> 
> ;-)
...
> > I have a vision of producing a "definition tree" for
> >the word homeomorphism, which I'll write as an outline:
> >
> >homeomorphism
> > bicontinuous
> > continuous
> > open set (undefined term)
> > inverse image
...
> > And I'm sure I left some stuff out.
> >
> > ---David
> 
> -- Ronn!  :)
> 
> Who has his hands full on another list attempting to explain causality
> violation to laypeople . . .

No, I just do outlines.  I'm getting to like the idea,
since it shows just how much work it is to really understand
theorems.  And I'm carefully leaving out all of the logic, as
well.

---David

No, I won't define "sphere".
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Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?

[David Hobby]

"Ronn!Blankenship" wrote:
...
> >I'm too sophomoric to bother to read.
> 
> "A is homeomorphic to B" means that there is a homeomorphism which maps A
> to B.  A homeomorphism is a bicontinuous bijection.

A bijection is a function that is one-to-one and onto.
A function is a particular kind of set of ordered pairs.
A function is one-to-one iff ...

I have a vision of producing a "definition tree" for 
the word homeomorphism, which I'll write as an outline:

homeomorphism
bicontinuous
continuous
open set (undefined term)
inverse image
inverse
bijection
one-to-one
image
onto
image (O.K., so it's not a tree...)
function
Cartesian product
ordered pair (undefined?)

And I'm sure I left some stuff out.

---David
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Re: SCOUTED: Case of Foot-in-Mouth Disease Found in New York Senator

[David Hobby]

ritu wrote:
> 
> Ronn!Blankenship forwarded:
> 
> > ST. LOUIS Jan. 6 ­ Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton apologized for
> > joking that
> > Mahatma Gandhi used to run a gas station in St. Louis, saying
> > it was "a
> > lame attempt at humor."
> >
> > The director of a U.S. center devoted to Gandhi's teachings said the
> > remarks amounted to stereotyping and were insensitive.
> 
> There are just two ways for this to make sense:
> 
> A] Gujjus run a lot of gas stations in the US? Is that true?
> 
> B] People think of Gandhi as a gujju first and an Indian second...? This
> seems kind of unbelievable to me but then I am sitting many a continents
> away.
> 
> Ritu, who had to read the article through twice and then think for 2
> minutes before guessing what might have caused offense

Ritu--
Good to hear from you on this.  (Now if I only knew what
a 'gujju' was...)  
Around here, most foreign convenience store clerks seem to
be Pakastani or Iranian.  But you know how bigots are, they usually
are not that picky about who they are prejudiced against.

---David

(Yes, it was a LAME attempt at humor.  But I'll still vote for
her again.)
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Re: Holy Blood Holy Grail

[David Hobby]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
...
> Michael Baigent, Henry Lincoln, and Richard Leigh, authors of The
> Messianic Legacy, spent over 10 years on their own kind of quest for
> the Holy Grail, into the secretive history of early France. What they
> found, researched with the tenacity and attention to detail that
> befits any great quest, is a tangled and intricate story of politics
> and faith that reads like a mystery novel. It is the story of the
> Knights Templar, and a behind-the-scenes society called the Prieure de
> Sion, and its involvement in reinstating descendants of the
> Merovingian bloodline into political power. ...

No, but I read The DaVinci Code.  Does that count for 
half-credit?
---David

> Jesus had a son by Mary Magdalene and he rode the land like the man who
>  went before
>  young Jesus raised him loud, mother Mary raised him proud and he tracked
>  the men who laid his father down...
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Re: Republicans Attempting to get Bible classified as a'Textbook' inCA in Constitutional Amendment

[David Hobby]

"John D. Giorgis" wrote:
> 
> At 09:13 AM 1/2/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote:
> ><>
> >
> >Group promotes constitutional amendment to make it textbook
> >
> >A California group has submitted to the attorney general's office a
> >proposed ballot initiative to amend the state constitution to make the
> >King James Bible a textbook for public school students in grades 1
> >through 12 throughout the state.
> 
> That's funny. I don't see the word "Republican" anywhere in here.
> Could The Fool possibly have given us ANOTHER misleading subject title?
> 
> JDG

I agree, it should be "Ultra-conservative religious nut cases".
: )
It certainly doesn't say, so serious biblical scholars COULD
be involved.  But reading between the lines, this does sound like
another issue being pushed by Christian fundamentalists.  (Do you
want to bet?)
As for using it as a textbook, one would have to be very
careful.  The two creation myths in Genesis could be studied along
with those of other cultures, even in 1st grade.  But wait, it 
wouldn't need to be a textbook for that.  Fair use would certainly 
allow a teacher to copy a few verses.  (So what DO the proposers
have in mind?  I bet they would not be happy to have biblical
myths equated with other myths...)

---David
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Re: 'nother riddle

[David Hobby]

Julia Thompson wrote:
...
> > > 111221
> > > --
> > > Doug
> >
> > Hm. If you hadn't included the next term, I'd have tried 1231.
> > Is the one after this 312211 then?
> 
> I don't think so, actually.  I have a theory about what the sum of the
> digits should be, and your answer doesn't sum to a high enough number.
> 
> Julia

No, I think it's right, and that there is no nice pattern
that gives the sum of the digits for the entire sequence.

---David

Maybe Doug should confirm Amanda's and Ray's guesses, so that you
have more to work with?
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Re: 'nother riddle

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> Doug Pensinger wrote:
> >
> > >> 1
> > >> 11
> > >> 21
> > >> 1211
> > 111221
> 
> Not enough data to extrapolate the rule, but it could be
> 
> 2113211 or 3113211 or 211121211 or 221121211
> 
> then
> 
> 1221131221 or 1321131221 or 1221112111221 or 12122112111221
> 
> The problem with first two rules would come when the
> algorithm requires a digit greater than 9. So maybe the
> simplest rule is the third or fourth
> 
> Maia per Lamai Maru
> 
> Alberto Monteiro

You want to give us a hint as to what kind of rule
you think it is?  There are of course an infinite number of
possible rules for any finite initial sequence.

---David

By the way, it is easy to show that the answer the rest of think
is right will never need a digit greater than 3.
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Re: 'nother riddle

[David Hobby]

Amanda Marlowe wrote:
...
> > >> Here's one I'm sure won't last nearly as long.  Guess the next number
> > >> in the following sequence.
> > >>
> > >> 1
> > >> 11
> > >> 21
> > >> 1211
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Doug
> > >
> > > Looks like a palindrome, and I don't see much of a mathematical pattern
> > > in
> > > it (not that I tried much though), so my guess is "1".
> > >
> > heh, good answer, but no.
> >
> > perhaps I should add one more:
> >
> > 111221
> > --
> > Doug
> 
> Hm. If you hadn't included the next term, I'd have tried 1231.
> Is the one after this 312211 then?
...

I'm sure it is.  Good job.  I got it, but then I read
this article:

J. H. Conway, The weird and wonderful chemistry of audioactive decay,
  Eureka 46 (1986) 5-16.

which also appeared in:

J. H. Conway, The weird and wonderful chemistry of audioactive decay,
  in T. M. Cover and Gopinath, eds., Open Problems in
Communication and
  Computation, Springer, NY 1987, pp. 173-188.

Potential cheaters, please note:  This could have been 
answered by going to "The On-Line Encyclopedia of Integer 
Sequences", at:

http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/

---David
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Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.

[David Hobby]

...
> >intangible, abstract concept of any type. Rather it is something quite
> >concrete.
> >
> >-Travis

But nowhere near as concrete as a rock, or even a comic book?  : )

> 
> Is it concrete?
> 
> Kevin T. - VRWC
> I liked catwoman better.

No, I like Concrete.  Of course I went to school with Paul
Chadwick, so I'm biased.

http://www.weisshahn.de/concrete/

---David
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Re: Science Fiction In General

[David Hobby]

Doug Pensinger wrote:
> 
> David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >   Nothing too much that was new.  Mostly more of the same-old
> > stuff.  (Yawn.)
> 
> Oh I don't know, Chelegrans, behemothaurs, pylon country as well as a more
> in depth look at a lot of the stuff that he'd only touched on briefly made
> it interesting to me.  That and an introspective look at the Culture - all
> is not perfect.  One thing; Banks can end a book gracefully - satisfyingly
> and I thought the ending of this one was a good piece of work.

Yes.  It was well done, and fleshed some things out.  But
it still feels weak, compared to the others.
 
> >>
> >> > Depends--what exactly IS a git?  The best definition I can
> >> > produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"...
> >>
> >>   a foolish or worthless person (http//www.m-w.com)
> >
> >   That's a dictionary definition.  I've read a few.  They
> > give one the general sense of the word, but don't really settle
> > what Horza is.  He really seems to be balanced on the knife-edge
> > between git and not git.
> >   If one acts foolishly for idealistic reasons, is one
> > really a git?  Probably not.  But add that one's ideals are
> > not quite consistent, and one is quite possibly a git.
> >   I give up--the Brits can argue this one out.
> 
> Well, Horza may have been wrong from our point of view and from the
> Culture's point of view, but he thought he was right, he was good (as in
> skilled), and he had some pretty cool tricks.  And hey, don't forget his
> species was all but extinct so there was some measure of desperation
> involved.

Surely believing that one is right is not enough to avoid
being a git?  Neither is being skilled, is it?
As for his species being close to extinction, doesn't that
provide more evidence of his being a git?  He shouldn't be 
chasing minds in tunnels if he's worried about his kind dying
out.  Most of the galaxy was not involved--he should have got
out of the combat zone.  : )

> Definitely not a git, IMO. 8^)

---David

Anatomy of a git
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Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.

[David Hobby]

Kevin Tarr wrote:
> 
> At 01:26 PM 12/18/2003, you wrote:
> >Lets play a little game. I'll start things off by throwing a riddle on the
> >table. The first person to correctly answer the riddle has the privilege
> >of posting a riddle of their own.

I ask that the next poser consent to a change in the rules.
Any acceptable answer ends the riddle, and the poser then states 
the answer they actually had in mind.  (If an answer is not 
acceptable, the poser should be able to point out how it fails
to fit.)
Or we could always play it like this:
"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 3."
"Two?"
"No--I never said it was an integer..."  : )

> >This guy went into the forest one day. Once there he got it, but he
> >couldn't get it. So he left it there and brought it back home. What did he get?
> 
> Ahh, I know the real answer now. I got a chill when it dawned on me. (and
> there are two hints in that sentence).
> 
> Kevin T. - VRWC

Kevin--
If you think that you have it cold, why don't you tell us?

---David

Infinite games Maru
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Re: Science Fiction In General

[David Hobby]

Doug Pensinger wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote:
> 
> >   I believe Player of Games is one of the best, certainly
> > the best "first book".  Use of Weapons is probably best, but be
> > warned, it's not a cheery book.  The rest are all good, but I was
> > not too impressed with Look to Windward, it seemed derivative.
> 
> Derivative?  Not sure what you mean.

Nothing too much that was new.  Mostly more of the same-old
stuff.  (Yawn.)

> 
> > Depends--what exactly IS a git?  The best definition I can
> > produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"...
> 
>   a foolish or worthless person (http//www.m-w.com)

That's a dictionary definition.  I've read a few.  They
give one the general sense of the word, but don't really settle
what Horza is.  He really seems to be balanced on the knife-edge
between git and not git.  
If one acts foolishly for idealistic reasons, is one
really a git?  Probably not.  But add that one's ideals are
not quite consistent, and one is quite possibly a git.
I give up--the Brits can argue this one out.

---David
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Re: Science Fiction In General

[David Hobby]

...
> I place CP at the top of the list with UoW, Inversions and LtW very close
> behind.  I need to reread Excession.  I enjoyed it, but it was a complex
> story with many, many ships to keep track of.  I agree that PoG is the
> weakest except for maybe State of the Art.  I read CP first Inversions
> second, and have reread both.
> 
> And by the way... not a git.
> 
> --
> Doug

I believe Player of Games is one of the best, certainly
the best "first book".  Use of Weapons is probably best, but be
warned, it's not a cheery book.  The rest are all good, but I was
not too impressed with Look to Windward, it seemed derivative.

---David

Depends--what exactly IS a git?  The best definition I can
produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"...
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Re: Science Fiction In General...

[David Hobby]

Travis Edmunds wrote:
> 
> I finished off "Seventh Son" by OS Card the other day. It's the first book
> in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all
> the books leading up to and including "The Crystal City"?
> 
> The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate "Seventh Son" above "Enders
> Game". Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another
> demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book.
> 
> -Travis

I've read all of them but _The Crystal City_.  I do confess
to being a bit upset when I discovered that _Seventh Son_ was only
the start of a series!  (I thought it was stand-alone when I bought
it.)
I do quite like the books, although the last two didn't 
seem to move the series forward as much as the first three did.
Alvin doesn't seem to be too much of a "superman" for me.
He basically has one extra power, in a world where many people 
have such "knacks".  It is a nice general power, but a lot of his
progress is because of his own struggles.
Now is it Science Fiction?  I'd say yes, if only in a 
general sense.  Card has imagined a world with not too many 
differences from our own past, and thought through the 
consequences of those differences pretty carefully.  That is
the core of Science Fiction, isn't it?

---David

What?  Science fiction needs high technology?  Says who?
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Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.

[David Hobby]

Travis Edmunds wrote:
> 
> >From: "Michael Harney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.
> >Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:41:48 -0700
> >
> >
> >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > > Lets play a little game. I'll start things off by throwing a riddle on
> >the
> > > table. The first person to correctly answer the riddle has the privilege
> >of
> > > posting a riddle of their own.
> > >
> > > This guy went into the forest one day. Once there he got it, but he
> >couldn't
> > > get it. So he left it there and brought it back home. What did he get?
> >
> >This sounds like a patient zero situation.  A man goes into a forest, he
> >picks up a virus, but is immune to the virus, so he can only be a carrier.
> >So my answer is a virus that he is immune to.  Am I right?
> >
> >Micahel Harney
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> It is a probable answer to the riddle. However it's not THE answer. I mean
> if you had asked this particular riddle with a virus in mind as the answer,
> then "a virus" would be correct. It's a multi-answerable riddle I suppose.
> Just keep on guessing what it could be, until you guess correctly.
> 
> -Travis

Hey, that's not fair!  The poser must at least give a new 
piece of information each time they discard a possible answer,
otherwise this could go on for a long time...

Travis--  Here's a yes/no question:  Could your answer to this 
riddle be produced by someone who lived 500 years ago?

---David

Neologisms Maru
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Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.

[David Hobby]

Matt Grimaldi wrote:
...
> For example, Star Trek space combat (borrowing
> from 19th cent. naval tradition) doesn't
> involve small fighter craft at all, while
> Star Wars space combat (borrowing from 20th
> cent. naval tradition) is almost all about
> fighter craft.  We don't know if shields
> are even possible, what kinds of weapons
> are available (and what speeds do they
> travel at, by the way?).  What speeds the
> ships are capable of, and so on.  For
> all we know, the most effective weapon
> could be the wake from a bussard ramship...
> 
> -- Matt

"If shields are even possible"?  Don't tell me that 
you want to only allow starships that use what is accepted
as real physics!  If so, you might even have to give up your
ramships...
I can certainly design a good warship under those 
constraints, but I can't recall any stories that have such
ships.  (Help?)
My guess is that the fairest thing is to get a good
sample of stories, and allow any physics that occurs in more
than half of them.  (With obvious translations, so ansible =
subspace radio = backchannel communicator, and so on.)

---David
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Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.

[David Hobby]

Matt Grimaldi wrote:
...
> > It depends what model of time travel you are using.
> > I like a multiple worlds interpretation, since there are no
> > paradoxes in it.
> > Heinlein's ship goes back, destroys the other ship's
> > factory, and goes forward again.  Now it is on a line without
> > the other ship.  But from the other ship's point of view,
> > Heinlein's ship goes back and never returns (i.e. disappears).
> > That sounds like a draw, at best.
> >
> > ---David
> >
> 
> If we involve time travel and other near-infinite
> improbabilities, why not count the Heart of Gold?
> Not only could it reduce any opposing ship to
> never-existence, it can also shape the universe
> into whatever form you desire.
> 
> -- Matt

Not sure what book it's from.  
I still say that "changing the universe" should count
as a draw.  In a multiple worlds interpretation, it's really
no better than running away.  
The only winner is the one that stays and fights!

---David
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Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote:
> >
> >   Comparing starships from different universes is difficult,
> > to say the least.
> >
> I think it's impossible. Take the most powerful ship, and it
> loses to Heinlein's Gay Deceiver, who can jump back to
> a time _before_ the construction of that other ship and blast
> its factory out of existence.
> 
> Alberto Monteiro

It depends what model of time travel you are using.
I like a multiple worlds interpretation, since there are no
paradoxes in it.
Heinlein's ship goes back, destroys the other ship's
factory, and goes forward again.  Now it is on a line without
the other ship.  But from the other ship's point of view, 
Heinlein's ship goes back and never returns (i.e. disappears).
That sounds like a draw, at best.

---David

Why exactly SHOULD the entire line with the other ship in it
disappear when Heinlein's ship mucks around in its past?
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Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.

[David Hobby]

Travis Edmunds wrote:

> 
> How about a Berserker? (Mr. Blankenship should know what that is)
> 
> >If you think Tinman and a Leviathan gunship are too outlandish, how about
> >the Scimitar from Star Trek: Nemesis?  It took two Romulan Warbirds and the
> >Enterprise E just to cripple the ship (and the battle resulted in the
> >Romulan Warbirds and the Enterprise E being even more crippled than the
> >Scimitar, only an internal attack on the Scimitar resulted in its
> >destruction).
> 
> Nothing is too outlandish, as long as it adheres to some unwritten,
> unofficial rules. As long as we're talking about starships, it makes no
> sense to say something like "Q could take em all".
> 
> But even sentient creatures like the Crystaline Entity are valid.
> 
> Let me pose a scenario. Lets say you colonize a system (this is a
> conglomeration of any and all fictional Universes that you can dream up).
> You have ten million "drones" working for you, just to begin some
> rudimentary industry, whatever. Anyway you have the Edo Guardian orbiting
> your planet (looks like a phased cloke, could possibly be
> inter-dimensional). Suddenly you detect a Borg tactical cube on an intercept
> course with your planet. You have the Edo Guardian protecting you, but are
> you afraid? Do you have faith in the ability of the Edo Guardian to protect
> you and your planet. If not then what other singular craft or in some cases
> entity would you want for defensive purposes?

This is interesting.  The best starship for offense might 
well not be best for defending a planet.  
For offense, you might want to impose some size limitations.
I can probably produce stories that have STARS being moved--a star
would make a pretty good weapon.  Certainly the _Cities in Flight_
series by James Blish has a planet, piloted as a starship and used
as a weapon.
Comparing starships from different universes is difficult,
to say the least.  I would probably go with Sleeper Service, 
featured in _Excession_ by Ian Banks.  Dimensions in the tens of
kilometers, with many thousands of "full-sized" starships in its
bays.  Crew optional, since it's run by a superhuman AI.  I guess
the ships have shields, since force fields are used a lot in the
Culture.  They also have "matter transmission" and antimatter,
which already gives one pretty powerful weapons.  These seem
to be fairly standard, so I assume they are all admissible.
The weapon that you might not allow is 'gridfire',
which remotely induces the vacuum in a location to manifest 
large amounts of energy.

---David
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Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.

[David Hobby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> There was a Star Trek TNG book that explained the cigar shaped planet killer
> in the original series, as being a sentient Borg Killer robot - a million of
> them would be handy
> 
>  Or does the initial requirements of thie thread require that a species fall
> within a strict carbon-based biological basis? The Borg Killer was searching
> for its mate. Does this count?

I don't think that it said "biological", but it did say "ground
force".  I believe this leaves out a number of large sentient space
ships.
I also like Matt Grimaldi's suggestion of Pak protectors.

---David

And the Episarchs!  If they completely destroy the fabric of 
reality on the entire battlefield, that should count as a 
draw.  : )
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Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.

[David Hobby]

Travis Edmunds wrote:
> 
> >From: Damon Agretto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.
> >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:28:56 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Heh. How about the Zentraedi from Macross. Nothing
> >like a 40ft tall giant for fun. Arm them with light
> >cannon and heavy machine guns (for 20th/21st C tech)
> >and they can be pretty dangerous. Feeding them is the
> >problem though...
> >
> >Damon :)
> >
> 
> Yes feeding them would be a problem, thus rendering them impractical.

As with most questions, I imagine the reader is supposed to
interpret it so that it makes sense.  Here's the original:

> For example, the other day a friend of mine asked me an interesting 
> question. He wanted to know what type of species I would use, if I could 
> magically have one million individuals of that species, as a ground force 
> army. The one stipulation being that my army would have to employ military 
> hardware of today's technology.

So you can't use vampires, or episarchs, or Kryptonians,
because allowing them makes the question degenerate.  Or put it 
this way--anything can come, but they have to leave their powers
with the physics of their home universes.
I'm with Damon, it doesn't say anything about the SIZE 
of the million individuals, at least as long as they can move
around on a planet.  So bigger is better!  Feeding them should
not be an issue; one assumes that an army comes with supplies.
It could well degenerate into a contest to name bigger 
species...  but I do like the "human consciousness in dinosaur 
bodies" things mentioned in Banks's _Feersum Endjinn_, and even 
in _Kiln People_ there were dittoes of similar sizes.

---David
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Scouted: Article on camera phones and transparency issues

[David Hobby]

This from today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/11/technology/circuits/11shoo.html?ex=1072145307&ei=1&en=f86ced332bbc754f

(may be cut, if so paste together...)


> Hold It Right There, and Drop That Camera
> 
> December 11, 2003
>  By JO NAPOLITANO 
> 
> 
> CHICAGO 
> 
> WHAT grabbed my attention," said Alderman Edward M. Burke,
> "was that TV commercial when the guy is eating the pasta
> like a slob, and the girl sends a photo of him acting like
> a slob to the fiancée." 
> 
> The commercial, for Sprint PCS, was meant to convey the
> spontaneity and reach afforded by the wireless world's
> latest craze, the camera phone. But what Mr. Burke saw was
> the peril. 
> 
> "If I'm in a locker room changing clothes," he said, "there
> shouldn't be some pervert taking photos of me that could
> wind up on the Internet." 
> 
> Accordingly, as early as Dec. 17, the Chicago City Council
> is to vote on a proposal by Mr. Burke to ban the use of
> camera phones in public bathrooms, locker rooms and
> showers. 
...

(Email me offlist if you want the rest sent to you, 
although I believe we have a generic subscription floating 
around which you could use...)

---David

No TrueVue glasses in the shower, please...
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Re: Very interesting emails....

[David Hobby]

Gary Nunn wrote:
> 
> Occasionally I get some interesting emails that land in my inbox. Below
> is one that some friends and I tried to crack the code at the bottom of
> the page. Anyone here care to take a shot at it?
...
> 
> symptom
> lst h ir wv yydurv
> akyiqnli ciaxssvg guitkgqivzzsdfoz
> htsr jwyhhm xxrahrvd
> nyebx

It looks like a substitution cipher, but if so I doubt 
the plain text is English.  Double letters at the start of
words as in "yydurv" and "xxrahrvd" are quite rare.

---David

Aardvark Llama Maru
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Re: Br!n: The Virtue of Stubbornness?

[David Hobby]

Jim Sharkey wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote:
> >But as for Kault, the Thennanin ambassador, it was his phlegmatic
> >character that kept him from noticing many of the (planted) signs
> >of the Garthlings.  If he hadn't been so thick, he might have
> >succeeded sooner.
> 
> That's probably a fair point.  It might not have been the best example, but it was 
> the first one that came to mind.  I don't agree, though, that he would have 
> succeeded sooner.  Had he followed the false trails, he might never have reached the 
> conclusions that he did, and probably wouldn't have been in the position to meet the 
> "Garthlings."

I guess we don't really know what Uthacalthing intended to
do with the false clues of Garthlings.  The ending in the book 
(_The Uplift War_) turns on many fairly improbable events, so one 
can't predict what would have happened.  But I can't see how Kault 
is worse off if he believes in Garthlings sooner.

> 
> One of my favorite things about that book is the concept of enjoying a joke that 
> winds up turning against the teller in unexpected ways.  I don't know too many 
> people who can handle it when their own jokes wind up having the last laugh on them, 
> let alone an entire culture that *enjoys* it.  It's nifty to think of the 
> possibility of an alien race being so familiar but so alien.  I suppose, though, 
> that's a pretty common SF theme.
> 
> Jim

Not that I play that many jokes, but I appreciate it 
when the world plays a joke on me.  A joke that yields the
unexpected is a thing of wonder--much better than when all 
goes according to plan.

---David

So alien, too?
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Re: Brin: The Virtue of Stubbornness?

[David Hobby]

> David Brin wrote:
> >--- Jim Sharkey
> >> It seems to me that the most important trait to DB's
> >>protagonists is stubbornness.
> >Interesting!  I certainly say so, explicitly, about the character
> >in KILN PEOPLE. And yet, I hardly envision it as an unwillingness
> >to contemplate changes in tactics.  I thought Maia changed tactics
> >several times.
...
> >I'd be interested whether others also feel I over-use this
> >technique.
> 
> I don't believe that you "over-use" it, necessarily.  A lot of authors have a 
> favorite theme that pops up often in their works, and I was just wondering if you or 
> the other listees had seen that as one of your main themes.  Especially since even 
> some of your secondary characters succeed the same way.  If the Thennannin 
> ambassador in TUW wasn't so stubborn in his search for Garthlings, for example, 
> they'd have never gotten a new client race, to use the first example that comes to 
> mind.
...
> Jim

I'm still mulling over the wider stubbornness issue.  I'd
certainly agree that the main characters do not succeed because of
inborn greatness, a cliché well avoided.  There ARE some lucky
coincidences, but one could argue that somebody had to get them...
But as for Kault, the Thennanin ambassador, it was his 
phlegmatic character that kept him from noticing many of the 
(planted) signs of the Garthlings.  If he hadn't been so thick,
he might have succeeded sooner.

---David Hobby
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Re: Timeline & other movies - no spoilers

[David Hobby]

Damon Agretto wrote:
> 
> > I saw Michael Crichton's 'Timeline" tonight. I was
> > pleasantly surprised.
> > It has been a few years since I read the book, but
> > the movie seems to be
> > reasonably faithful to the original storyline. There
> > were some
> > annoyances - like them posing some questions that
> > were never answered,
> > but otherwise it wasn't bad.
> 
> Heh just wait until I see it and pick apart the
> historical innacuracies/anachronisms...
> 
> Damon.

I'm sure you'll find some, but nothing was too glaring.
(They sure did some shoddy construction back then, though!)
As book to film adaptations go, I thought it was very
good.  Some of the rambling subplots of the book got a solid
pruning, and the action was speeded up.  Chrichton screws up
the logic of time travel in the book, so the movie's sparse
treatment of the issue was a definite gain.

---David
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Re: EMP device? was 'The Burning Man'

[David Hobby]

"Ronn!Blankenship" wrote:

> 
> I was trying to clean and straighten out the lab supply closet this
> afternoon and came across some capacitors labeled "2500 MFARAD."  I hope
> that the "M" in this instance is supposed to stand for "micro," otherwise I
> am somewhat leery about putting the equipment in the hands of beginning
> students . . .
 
Voltage matters too.  Do you have kilovolts, huh, huh?!

---David

Mad Science
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Re: EMP device? was 'The Burning Man'

[David Hobby]

David Hobby wrote:
> 
> Andrew Crystall wrote:
> ...
> > >  Look, I don't want PLANS!  I just don't believe you
> > > made it, and you've done nothing to dispel this.
> > >  How about 20 questions?
> > >
> > > 1)  Did it use an explosion?
> >
> > A capacitor. Which expoded once when I was test firing it.
> > This design flaw fortunately was kinda-antipated and it missed me.
...
> A good thing it did.  Big capacitors can store a lot
> of energy.  So all I need to do is pick up a 100KV, 20 Farad
> capacitor, from that war surplus store by Area 51...
> 
> ---David

Funny, I can't even find the building anymore.  Now 
where am I going to get all my experimental supplies?
So it sounds like we need to scale back the size of
the capacitor some.  I googled a bit, and found an archived
exchange at:

http://yarchive.net/metal/large_capacitors.html

I've snipped it some, but this seems to be about what you
can get.

> >
> >>The suggestion of using capacitor discharge sounds like a good idea to
> >>me. It would not be expensive or complex if made from surplus equipment,
> >>although it would not be very practical for commercial sale. A 1000
> >>microfarad capacitor bank at 1000 volts gives 500 joules which is in the
> >>order of the energy of powder charges used for fire forming typical
> >>cases. 
...
> 
> Back to the capacitor discharge methods, if anyone still cares...
> At least in the Phoenix area you can find large capacitor fairly
> cheap.  Oil caps which are at about the limit of what a person
> can lift are used for power line correction.  A few of them in
> parallel should do the job nicely.  They're designed for AC but
> will handle DC ok.  Some have built in bleeder resistors, but
> that wouldn't hurt this use. One might use electrolytics in
> series/parallel with diodes and resistors to prevent reversing
> the polarity, but they aren't the best for pulse work.
> 
> It's not hard to build a triggered spark gap which will handle
> thousands of amps.  Three metal disks in a row. THe middle one
> is connected to a spark coil and held at a voltage halfway between
> the other two until time to fire.  THen a pulse of either polarity
> will break down one size, with the other following immediately.
> Plain air will carry the current.
...

---David

ROU  Zap!
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Re: feel a draft coming on?

[David Hobby]

"Miller, Jeffrey" wrote:
...
> > Dan--
> >   Correct.  But I meant "as in Germany".  The system is
> > that every able-bodied young male has to do something.  It
> > can either be around 15 months of military service,
> > (regimentation, no combat, serious drinking...) or a bit
> > longer of alternative service
> > (changing bedpans, say).  In economic terms, it's a labor
> > tax. That's a bit different from having a draft in place but not
> > calling anyone up.
> 
> What a tragic idea!  You're talking about social engineering on a scale that boggles 
> me.
> 
> -j-

Well, it's a different place.  Sometimes better, sometimes
worse. 
So your position is that America has no social engineering?
One could argue that there's always a society, and that government
can do as good as job of engineering it as some other contenders,
such as large corporations, blind traditions, and random chance.
(I know, those three aren't exactly stiff competition.)

---David

Love those funky Catholic holidays, too!
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Re: Web Browser Question

[David Hobby]

Erik Reuter wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 10:06:23AM -0600, The Fool wrote:
> > Proxomitron is better.  All hail Proxomitron.  Oh wait erik can't use
> > it...
> 
> Proxomitron is dead. http://www.proxomitron.org/

Still working on my machine, though.  "It's not dead,
just no longer supported!"
I loaded it on my machine as a trial, and it certainly
made a dent in the number of ads.  But configuring it was just
messy enough that I never got around to putting it on the rest
of the computers/browsers around here...

---David

"Shonen Knife rules!"
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Re: EMP device? was 'The Burning Man'

[David Hobby]

Andrew Crystall wrote:
...
> >  Look, I don't want PLANS!  I just don't believe you
> > made it, and you've done nothing to dispel this.
> >  How about 20 questions?
> >
> > 1)  Did it use an explosion?
> 
> A capacitor. Which expoded once when I was test firing it.
> This design flaw fortunately was kinda-antipated and it missed me.
> 
> Andy
> Dawn Falcon

A good thing it did.  Big capacitors can store a lot
of energy.  So all I need to do is pick up a 100KV, 20 Farad 
capacitor, from that war surplus store by Area 51...

---David
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Re: EMP device? was 'The Burning Man'

[David Hobby]

Andrew Crystall wrote:
...
> > Andy--
> >  I've done a little research, and I still don't buy it.
> > You do mean EMP, and not HERF?  (high-energy radio frequency)
> > Even then, it doesn't sound like something you can just throw
> > together in the field.
> >  You do seem to be a bit reticent on the details of
> > such a device, which does not help your credibility.  So I've
> 
> I'm not "a bit reticent", I plain won't provide details. This is for
> several reasons. But it was unreliable, one shot and ultimately a
> gimmick. It wasn't thrown together in the field either.

Look, I don't want PLANS!  I just don't believe you 
made it, and you've done nothing to dispel this.
How about 20 questions?  

1)  Did it use an explosion?

---David

Decanting prunes and raisins.  : )

PPS:  Why not post your list of books?  There's enough other
stuff that gets posted!
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Re: feel a draft coming on?

[David Hobby]

Dan Minette wrote:
> 
...
> > I was considering it too.  But my guess is that American
> > politicians know that an actual wartime draft would be political
> > suicide.  (And unlike some other countries (e.g. Germany) we don't
> > have it in our culture to accept a peacetime draft.  Maybe if
> > unemployment skyrocketed, we would eventually change our minds.)
> 
> We had it from the end of WWII to the end of Nam.  During 'Nam it wasn't
> peacetime, but before Nam really got going and after Korea, there was no
> big war going on.  I think you are right that it wouldn't pass now, but I
> think that's part of an unfortunate development...expecting other people's
> kids to fight wars that we decide are in the national interest.

Dan--
Correct.  But I meant "as in Germany".  The system is that
every able-bodied young male has to do something.  It can either be
around 15 months of military service, (regimentation, no combat,
serious drinking...) or a bit longer of alternative service 
(changing bedpans, say).  In economic terms, it's a labor tax.
That's a bit different from having a draft in place but not 
calling anyone up.
---David
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Re: EMP device? was 'The Burning Man'

[David Hobby]

Andrew Crystall wrote:
> 
> On 2 Nov 2003 at 22:45, David Hobby wrote:
> 
> > Andrew Crystall wrote:
> > ...
> > > >
> > > > My reaction to such behavior was to inform the offender sweetly
> > > > that if he uses that bullhorn one more time while people (like me)
> > > > are trying to sleep,
> > ...
> > > My reaction to s similar incident involved the one and only time I
> > > used an EMP generating device "in the field". I think there were
> > > only two collateral casualties (a cell phone and a pocket TV), both
> > > of which belonged to the offender. And no-one else DID work out what
> > > happened.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > > Dawn Falcon
> >
> > Andy--
> >  A good story, but I don't believe in the EMP device that
> > small and unobtrusive.  Do you want to divulge some technical
> > details?  : )
> 
> It's not precisely small and unobtrusive. It's more no-one had any
> idea what it WAS (and at that time of the night, no-one really
> cared). It was also one-shot, which helped keep the size down.
> 
> Andy
> Dawn Falcon

Andy--
I've done a little research, and I still don't buy it.
You do mean EMP, and not HERF?  (high-energy radio frequency)
Even then, it doesn't sound like something you can just throw
together in the field.
You do seem to be a bit reticent on the details of 
such a device, which does not help your credibility.  So I've
been having a fantasy that I would start "demanding proof and
reasons", then in a couple of days it would turn into an ugly
flamewar like: "U LUZER!  You couldn't make an EMP device in
a capacitor factory!  Prevaricating Jack o' Napes! ..."
Then we would take it to Brin-L War (7 members, 5 posts so far)
and duke it out, mano a mano.
But it's too much work.  : )

---David
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Re: feel a draft coming on?

[David Hobby]

"Miller, Jeffrey" wrote:
...
> >
> > <>
> 
> Hmm.. maybe I'll try to get a spot on the local draft board, just in case...
> 

I was considering it too.  But my guess is that American 
politicians know that an actual wartime draft would be political 
suicide.  (And unlike some other countries (e.g. Germany) we don't 
have it in our culture to accept a peacetime draft.  Maybe if 
unemployment skyrocketed, we would eventually change our minds.)

---David
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Re: First Timers Telescope

[David Hobby]

"Robert J. Chassell" wrote:
...
> Do not buy anything with less than a 6 inch (150 mm) aperture (diamter
> of the lens or, more likely, main mirror).  Smaller telescopes don't
> gather enough light, so they are only good with bright objects like
> the moon and planets, and even then, they are not so good since you
> cannot increase effective magnification much.  

Well, you can look at star clusters with a small scope
too.  And there are some nebulae where you see something.
Agreed, aperture is what matters.  And an equatorial
mount is good if you're using high magnifications, and nice 
if you want to be able to find something again after leaving 
the telescope for five minutes.

---David
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EMP device? was 'The Burning Man'

[David Hobby]

Andrew Crystall wrote:
...
> >
> > My reaction to such behavior was to inform the offender sweetly that
> > if he uses that bullhorn one more time while people (like me) are
> > trying to sleep,
...
> My reaction to s similar incident involved the one and only time I
> used an EMP generating device "in the field". I think there were only
> two collateral casualties (a cell phone and a pocket TV), both of
> which belonged to the offender. And no-one else DID work out what
> happened.
> 
> Andy
> Dawn Falcon

Andy--
A good story, but I don't believe in the EMP device that 
small and unobtrusive.  Do you want to divulge some technical 
details?  : )

---David
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Re: First Timers Telescope

[David Hobby]

Matthew and Julie Bos wrote:
> 
> My son Nathaniel (6) is asking for a telescope for Christmas this year.  I
> am looking to spend about 100-150 dollars for it (I have always wanted one
> too!).  What would be a good new model in that price range? What would be a
> good used telescope in that price range?  I would rather ask this group than
> to to the reviews on Amazon.com.  Thanks for the advice in advance.
> 
> Matthew Bos

Hi!  I'm impressed that you're looking into it this early--I never
get around to shopping until my semester ends.  (An occupational
hazard?)

The classic advice is:  "All that matters is aperture."
There are lots of misleading advertisements based on the 
magnifying power of the telescope--ignore them.  It's easy to
get more power than you need out of a telescope by using 
shorter focal length eyepieces.  But if you have a choice
between a 75mm aperture or a 50mm aperture, take the bigger
one.

I'd guess that you would wind up getting a small refractor...

---David
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Re: [Listref] Microsoft launches self-destructing email (false)

[David Hobby]

...
> > > So what about screen capture utilities?
> >
> > Microsoft has been making changes in the API's / DirectX to be able to
> > give programs the ability to prevent this.  The framework has been in
> > place for quite some time.
> 
> They can change all they like. As long as it is displayed on the
> monitor the program I use can capture it. It ties into the display
> drivers, not DirectX, for this very reason.
> 
> Andy
> Dawn Falcon

Great.  So what DO you use?

---David
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Re: [Listref] Microsoft launches self-destructing email (false)

[David Hobby]

> The Fool wrote:.
> 
> >My understanding is that only outlook can open these messages.  Microsoft
> >has said it would also provide a small stand alone (DRM) app to open
> >messages for users of other software.
> >
> >The Whole point is that it disallows other software from reading it.

So what about screen capture utilities?

---David
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Re: Archbishop of Canterbury defends Terrorism

[David Hobby]

ritu wrote:
> 
> The Fool forwarded:
> 
> > < > /15/wbish15.
> > xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/15/ixnewstop.html>>
> >
> > Terrorists can have serious moral goals, says Williams
...
> 
> So where, when and how does he defend terrorism? I have read the entire
> report and haven't come across a single statement that would count as
> defence of the terrorists?
> 
> Ritu

Ritu--
You're obviously not an American.  Here, failure to 
sufficiently vilify counts as defense.  : )

---David
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Re: ATL: one cup coffee makers

[David Hobby]

Russell Chapman wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote:
> 
> >You don't say if she brews once or twice a day.  Unless
> >she is a purist (whole beans in the freezer, ground fresh each
> >time), she might be able to use a thermal carafe to save half the
> >morning coffee to drink at night.  Again, depending what a "cup"
> >is.  A small amount of coffee would get cold, and not taste quite
> >the same warmed up.  (But I am fairly particular about coffee,
> >and still drink rewarmed coffee if need be.)
> >
> Ewww - you make me feel like a coffee nazi, and I'm nowhere near as bad
> as some of my friends.

You want bad?  Try this, cross-posted from the Culture list:

If you want caffeine to stay awake: get coarsly ground coffee, put three 
handfuls of coffee into one liter of boiling water. Let it simmer for 
some minutes, add a pinch of salt and pour into your large cup.

-- 

//Morten Torstensen

> >On collective nouns:  Why is it "less sand" or "more data",
> >but still "fewer grounds"?
> >
> Because it is fewer grains or less sand, fewer bits or less data, fewer
> grounds or less coffee...
> 

But coffee is the wet stuff.  The powder it is made from,
looking much like sand, is "coffee grounds".  Why is this not a 
collective noun?  I WANT a collective noun...

---David

GCU  Synchronicity at the same time
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ATL: one cup coffee makers

[David Hobby]

Kevin Tarr wrote:
> 
> Change the header if it's wrong. (Could someone list the special headers we
> have/use/could use?)
> 
> I have never drank coffee, but a relative does. She normally only drinks
> two cups, one in the morning and one at night. She buys one shot coffee
> pouches. Of course they are expensive. I'm trying to help her save money.
> Would anyone know of or use a machine that makes one cup using coffee grounds?
> 
> (Why do I keep spelling coffee without the second e?)

I think we used to have a 4-cup machine from Krups or Braun.
They do exist.  Depending on what "two cups" of coffee means, I think 
that even a 10-cup machine might work.  (For unknown reasons,
coffee seems to be measured in 6-oz (170ml) "cups".  But when I say
"cup of coffee", I mean twice that!)
I bet it is important to use a machine with a cone-shaped
"Melitta" filter.  Then you can just use fewer grounds and less 
water, but they will still get together in the bottom of the cone.
The flat kind of "Mr. Coffee" filter will probably not work well.
You don't say if she brews once or twice a day.  Unless 
she is a purist (whole beans in the freezer, ground fresh each
time), she might be able to use a thermal carafe to save half the
morning coffee to drink at night.  Again, depending what a "cup"
is.  A small amount of coffee would get cold, and not taste quite
the same warmed up.  (But I am fairly particular about coffee,
and still drink rewarmed coffee if need be.)

---David

On collective nouns:  Why is it "less sand" or "more data",
but still "fewer grounds"?
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Re: [Scouted] Maggots, Leeches, and Now -- Worms?

[David Hobby]

Deborah Harrell wrote:
...
> > at least with maggots or leeches they eventually
> > LEAVE your body!
> >   ---David
> >
> > It's not a parasite, it's a symbiote!  : )
> 
> 
> Well, in most cases the worm eggs have to be taken
> every three weeks to keep the disease in remission;
> they don't survive for very long in humans 

EXCELLENT!  Die, Parasite, Die!  (Oh...Where was I...)

Now you've got me speculating on the worms.  But
I suspect that I really do not want to know.  I'm sure
I can find out all about it, by just following your link...

---David
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Re: [Scouted] Maggots, Leeches, and Now -- Worms?

[David Hobby]

Deborah Harrell wrote:
> 
> Among the higher "Eeeu!"-factor medical treatments
> are the use of maggots to clean gangrenous wounds, and
> leeches for therapeutic blood reduction; now comes the
> lowly pig whipworm for imflammatory bowel
> disease(IBD).

Good link.  For me, it is grosser than the other two...
at least with maggots or leeches they eventually LEAVE your
body!
---David

It's not a parasite, it's a symbiote!  : )
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Re: RFID chips, was Re: The Eyes Have It

[David Hobby]

Andrew Crystall wrote:
> 
> On 29 Sep 2003 at 23:37, David Hobby wrote:
> 
> > > destroy by washing machines and dryers.  Or how about the printers
> > > that require specific brand ink cartridges that must have a chip
> > > from their own products to work (printer ink is 17 times more
> > > expensive than vintage champagne).
> >
> >  I would not buy such a printer, and I think most people
> > wouldn't.  Don't worry about it too much, it's not a good business
> > model.  I know the printer manufacturers would love them, but it would
> > definitely cripple their sales.
> 
> LOL. They sell REALLY well. They're typically bundled with PC's.
> One snag. From next year, they'll be illegal in the EU.

So they do exist?  O.K..  (But aren't there kits to refill
the cartridges, then?)
Good for the EU.  

---David
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RFID chips, was Re: The Eyes Have It

[David Hobby]

The Fool wrote:
> 
> > > their keys,
> >
> > wouldn't work well if encased in a metal key, and if it is on the
> > surface it is easy to remove
> 
> >From my experience they are keys with large black plastic encasings.
> Either way, they are required by the new cars to be able to start them.

Yes, but "That's not a bug, it's a feature."  It makes the
cars harder to steal.  I don't mind the keys, but they are pricey
to replace.  And if it bugged me, I could always put the key in 
a conducting bag like the one that came with the car's toll paying
tag.

> destroy by washing machines and dryers.  Or how about the printers that
> require specific brand ink cartridges that must have a chip from their
> own products to work (printer ink is 17 times more expensive than vintage
> champagne).  

I would not buy such a printer, and I think most people 
wouldn't.  Don't worry about it too much, it's not a good business
model.  I know the printer manufacturers would love them, but it 
would definitely cripple their sales.  

---David
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Re: Names

[David Hobby]

Julia Thompson wrote:
> 
> Catherine:
> We just liked the name, and there were a number of options for nicknames
> from it, so we could pick one to suit her personality once we had a feel
> for it.  As it is, my mother is calling her "Cathy", I'm calling her
> "Catherine", and Dan is using one or the other, depending.  It just
> struck me that there was something about her when I first held her that
> demanded the respect of using her full name.  :)  I may get over that at
> some point, though.

My eldest is a Catherine.  She likes it for the most part,
although she did wish that her name was Sally (!) when she was five.
We were afraid of nicknames with diminutives, since one can be stuck
with those as an adult.  (Take "Julie", for instance...  : )  )
So we went with "Cate".  Of course a lot of people spell it wrong.
But when they spell it right, you know it must be her.  Now I usually
say "like Cate Blanchett", but maybe I'm a bigger fan than others.
Our other children are Corbin, and an Alexandra who goes 
by Sawny.

---David

Unique names are good(?).
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Re: The Eyes Have It

[David Hobby]

 
> >   So you think that would be the method?  Just pick a wavelength
> > where glasses/contacts are probably transparent, and work there.
> 
> No idea. Like you, I wonder about resolution. It seems it would take
> some really good (expensive) optics to get adequate resolution from a
> distance.
> 
> --
> Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/

I wasn't that worried about resolution, just signal to noise
ratio.  The other issue that comes up is having the system target 
the eyes of a moving person.  Moving the system to track the 
person seems difficult.  So that leaves the other option, which is
to constantly record the image from anywhere the eyes might appear,
at a resolution fine enough to identify the eyes.  I'm thinking 
that means resolution to at least the millimeter over a meter-square 
window, which makes for a 1000x1000 pixel CCD.  O.K., that sounds 
feasible.
I don't believe the optics are that big an issue, since
they could be designed to only work well at one wavelength.  A lot
of the price of good lenses is to make them achromatic, focusing
many different wavelengths to almost the same location.
"Seeing" might be an issue.  I doubt that you could get better
than 1 arc second resolution in a public place, the air would be too
turbulent.  But taking my 1 mm resolution criterion, we get that 
the camera could be as far as 200 meters away, since 1 mm spans around
1 arc second at that distance.  That should give some room to place
cameras in...

---David
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Re: The Eyes Have It

[David Hobby]

Erik Reuter wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:02:26AM -0400, David Hobby wrote:
> 
> > Betting that dark glasses really are "dark" at all reasonable
> > wavelengths.
> 
> You'd lose that bet. Most dark tinted glass passes light above about
> 1000-1100nm.

Oh.  Good to know.  Just to clarify, that's around 10,000
Angstroms, and "above" means "of longer wavelength"?
So you think that would be the method?  Just pick a wavelength
where glasses/contacts are probably transparent, and work there.

---David
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Re: The Eyes Have It

[David Hobby]

Marc Erickson wrote:
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030515.html

> again.  Morton's system can identify iris patterns through dark glasses or
> contact lenses and can do so almost instantly for thousands of people

Sorry, I don't believe it.  I guess you could use infrared
or some wavelength that the glasses were transparent to.  But if
you're trying to see fine detail in the eyes through dark glasses,
you just don't have the signal-to-noise ratio to do it.  One could
track the barely visible pupils for a few seconds, and then combine
all the images in the hopes of getting more detail--but that wouldn't
be "instant".
Or if the system does use infrared or whatever, there's no
reason that my dark glasses couldn't be covered in camouflage patterns
that were opaque at that wavelength.

---David

Betting that dark glasses really are "dark" at all reasonable 
wavelengths.
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Re: Opinion of split between the two Brin-Ls?

[David Hobby]

Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> d.brin wrote:
> 
> > Which is the official one, and what do you think of the split?
> >
> >
> >
> > Really?  Are both active?  I was not aware of this.
> >
> > I will pass this on to the people on the latter of the two, in hopes
> > they will clarify.
> 
> *This* list certainly is active... and the other one appears to be also.

Not recently.  I've been on it the whole time, and I think
the last two posts have been like this:

 Subject:Weekly Chat Reminder
Date:Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:27:35 -0500
From:Steve Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To:BRIN-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

on consecutive Wednesdays.

I think it just fell short of the critical number
of members, or something.

---David
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Re: Welcome to the Thompson Twins!

[David Hobby]

Jon Gabriel wrote:
> 
> Congratulations Julia and Dan!

Welcome too!  But the title scares me--let's hope the
group is completely forgotten by the time they grow up...

---David
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Re: Movie/TV related books: was (A bit of a rant)

[David Hobby]

"G. D. Akin" wrote:

> > Wait a minute, I read _Fantastic Voyage_.  It was
> > a year or two before the film came out.  Does that count?

> Not sure.  The Star Wars and Star Trek (and the like) are franchises.  Not
> really the same as novels that eventually become movies.

But it wasn't.  Here's my understanding of what happened,
from:

http://www.sciflicks.com/fantastic_voyage/facts.html

> Isaac Asimov was approached to write the novel from the script. He
> perused the script, and declared the script to be full of plot holes.
> Receiving permission to write the book the way he wanted, delays in
> filming and the speed at which he wrote saw the book appear before
> the film. Asimov fixed several plot holes in the book version, but this had
> no effect on the film.

---David

e.g. In the film, they leave the (rapidly growing) submarine
inside the patient!
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Re: A bit of a rant (was SFBC)

[David Hobby]

> David wrote:
> 
> > Got me, to my knowledge I've never read books set in a
> > universe created for a film or TV series.  

Wait a minute, I read _Fantastic Voyage_.  It was
a year or two before the film came out.  Does that count?

---David

P.S.  Congratulations, Julia
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Re: A bit of a rant (was SFBC)

[David Hobby]

"G. D. Akin" wrote:
> 
> Top posting--deliberate.
...
> But, give me a break!  I asked if the trilogies are worth reading.  I get
> one non-answer and one, that does say "yay" or "nay", but also informs me of
> the perils of CD clubs.
> 
> I really expected some worthwhile comments about the trilogies since most on
> this list hold B5 in very high regard.  I'm starting to think this is the
> David Brin Short Attention Span List.
> 

Bottom posting--deliberate.

Got me, to my knowledge I've never read books set in a 
universe created for a film or TV series.  To go out on a limb,
are ANY of them worth reading?

---David

At least it explains why I didn't respond.  : )

(Wait a minute, I did read the scripts for the last couple 
of episodes of Crusade that never got made.  Does that count?)
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Re: My sanity questioned

[David Hobby]

> >You're given a crossword-puzzle-grid, a list of numbers grouped by the
> >number of digits in each one and then sorted in numerical order, and one
> >number placed in the grid.  You then try to logically figure out where
> >each of the rest of the numbers fit in the grid.
> >
...
> >So, am I nuts?  Or just really, really weird?
> >
> > Julia

Everybody likes different things.  To me, those sound too
much like "work".  I would just transfer it into Graph Theory and
write a program to solve the puzzles.
But they're way better than word search puzzles, in my
view.  I have an algorithm for word search puzzles:  Take the
first word.  Find its first letter.  Go through the grid looking
for the first letter.  Now look around each instance for the 
second letter of the word.  Etc.  I find anything that easy to
automate BORING.
I also have a book of "Mensa Math and Logic Puzzles".  But
they are too hard to be interesting.  If I ever need examples of
NP-complete recreational problems, I have a book of them...

> 
> I like them too. Haven't done them in a long time, but they are better than
> normal crossword puzzles or a word search type.
> 
> I'm assuming a program can be written, where you'd almost have to solve the
> whole thing before you can get the first one. Do you think these are now
> made by hand or with a 'puter?
> 
> Kevin T. - VRWC

You mean, "Are there puzzles of this type where for any number
k much less than the total number of words n, and for any subset of 
k word-spaces in the grid, that there are multiple valid ways to fill
in the k word-spaces."?
That sounds plausible.  I don't have a good grip on the
problem, so I can't say for sure.  If it were true, the existence 
of such puzzles could probably be shown by a counting argument.
Ideally, a puzzle like this should appear to be NP-hard
(i.e. one would just have to try everything), but then on closer
inspection reveal a "back door" to deducing a solution step-by-step.
It might be possible to find these automatically, but I'd HOPE that
someone was checking by hand to be sure that solving them would 
feel satisfying.
---David
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Re: No baby?

[David Hobby]

> 
> I'd like to have this over with, because it gets kind of tedious keeping
> track of the time of the last N contractions.  Of course, in general,
> they've been in clusters where they're roughly an hour apart.  12-15
> minutes apart is when we head out.  The closest 2 were 25 minutes apart,
> and then nothing for over an hour.  Sigh.
> 
> Julia

Just Braxton-Hicks contractions, I bet.  Hang in 
there...
---David
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Re: memorization vs. idea space position

[David Hobby]

...
> Thinking some more about it, it seems that new forms of math are as likely
> a candidate as any for ideas that cannot be expressed symbolically.  But,
> I've never heard of a mathematical system who's rules exist, but cannot be
> described in terms of things already know to other mathematicians.
> Obviously symbols can be invented on the fly, so that's not a problem...its
> more that one could imagine a set of rules so far removed from present
> systems that there is no mapping. But, I know of no instances of  someone
> with a real track record coming up with systems he/she cannot describe at
> all to any other mathematician.
> 
> Dan M.

All of known mathematics can be coded into Set Theory, for
instance, which is pretty simple.  (Two undefined terms: 'set' and
'is an element of', and around 10 axioms.)  After a while, the 
encoded forms are nothing like how anybody actually THINKS about
the ideas, but the encoding can certainly be done.
So in the worst case, one could use set theory to 
unambiguously state what one's ideas were, and then do a lot
of hand-waving to get the "flavor" of it across.
If pushed, I would be prepared to say that something
which could not be coded into set theory was not mathematics
at all.
---David

0 = {}, 1 = {0} = {{}}, 2 = {0,1} = {{},{{}}}, 3 = {0,1,2},...

is the standard encoding of the natural numbers, which I believe
is due to Henkin.
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Re: Derivation vs. Memorization

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
> >
> >> Who somehow did memorize the quadratic formula...
> >
> > Can you derive it?
> >
> Trivial. I ddn't memorize Cardano's formula, but I can
> derive it easily: eliminate term in x^2, x = u + v then
> eliminate term with uv.

He did say quadratic, which means second degree?
 
> OTOH, I have a hard time remembering some obscure
> geometry formulas, even simple ones like
> a^2 = b^2 + c^2 - [or +?] 2 [?] b c cos [or sin?] A

Yes, I tend to derive the Law of Cosines from the
dot product of vectors when I need it.  (Although once you
have it down to + or - sin or cos, it's easy to decide
which of the 4 possibilities is correct.  The last term
must be zero when the angle is 90 degrees, and so on...)

---David
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Re: W's_sneak_vote_on_Vouchers_during_presidential_debate_passes_by_1_vote_while_3_democrat_opponents_were_at_debate

[David Hobby]

"Ronn!Blankenship" wrote:
> 
> Although I realize it's not the point the author of the article was trying
> to make, nor the reason it was posted to the list, a question which arises
> after reading the article is why there are apparently not any private
> schools available which emphasize that their academic standards are
> superior to those of the "failing public schools" but which are not
> associated with any religious organization?  Are there indeed no such
> non-religious schools, or is there some other reason why that is not a
> valid choice in this case?

There probably are some.  I bet they also charge a LOT of
money.  Catholic schools don't, for various reasons.

---David

Vow of poverty, anyone?
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Re: Derivation vs. Memorization, was Re: Girls more confidentof success

[David Hobby]

"Ronn!Blankenship" wrote:
> 
> At 07:49 PM 9/20/03 -0400, David Hobby wrote:
> 
> > ---David
> >
> >Who somehow did memorize the quadratic formula...
> 
> Can you derive it?
> 
> -- Ronn!  :)

Certainly.  Just complete the square.

---David

Not biting.
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Derivation vs. Memorization, was Re: Girls more confident of success

[David Hobby]

Julia Thompson wrote:
> 
> Jan Coffey wrote:
> >
> > --- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > But you have to memorize math too - you don't just figure things out
> > > every time you do a problem do you?
> >
> > Actualy yes, I do.
> 
> OK, 2-part question:
> 
> 1)  Did you take Differential Equations?
> 
> 2)  If so, derive the Heat Equation.  >:)

Sure.  Heat behaves like a fluid, where the amount of
heat in a given small region is proportional to its temperature,
T.  So the rate of change of temperature with time, dT/dt, is 
proportional to the net rate of heat flow into the region.  By 
Newton's Law of Cooling, the rate of heat flow from one small 
region to the next is proportional to the temperature difference 
between the regions, that is to dT/dx, where x is the direction 
from one region to the other. If the small regions are lined up 
along  the x-axis, the heat flow into a region is then 
proportional to dT/dx at the right side of the region minus dT/dx 
at the left side.  But this is essentially the second derivative,
d^2 T / dx^2.  This gives the one-dimensional heat equation:

dT/dt = k * d^2 T / dx^2, where k is the constant of proportionality

(Actually, every 'd' is a 'del'.)  (To go to more dimensions,
just add the contributions for each, giving
dT/dt = k * (d^2 T / dx^2 + d^2 T / dy^2), etc.)

Does that count?  : )

The one class where I ever snuck in a cheat sheet of 
formulas was Thermodynamics, though.  So I get your point!  It's
not so much a matter of not being able to derive things, as a 
matter of just not having sufficient time to do so.

---David

Who somehow did memorize the quadratic formula...
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Re: 37 weeks plus

[David Hobby]

> 
> So, I made it to 37 weeks, and the babies seem to be quite healthy,
> which is what we wanted.  Now, to just get them *out*
> 
> Julia

Good for you!  Best wishes for the last big "push".

---David
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Re: Scouted: reconstruction then and now

[David Hobby]

Jon Gabriel wrote:
> 
> >From: "Alberto Monteiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Scouted: reconstruction then and now
> >Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:37:40 -
> >
> >
> >David Hobby wrote:
> > >
> > >> Germany had *no* democratic traditions at all
> > >
> > > None?  Not even whatever filtered in from Switzerland?
> > >
> >Switzerland is not Germany :-P
> >
> > >  And what of the failed revolution of 1848?
> >
> >I must have fluked this History Class. What happened in 1848?
> >
> 
> I'm sure Google can cough up some links on this, but here's the situation in
> a nutshell:  Inspired by America's success with democracy, the liberal,
> nationalist middle class started a revolution in Prussia and some other,
> more minor German states.  A National Assembly was convened.  The liberals
> wanted to form a democratic 'German Confederacy', but conservative
> reactionaries squashed it.   More than 4000 liberals fled to political
> asylum in America.

Sounds good.  My impression was that the revolutionaries
were O.K. at overthrowing the existing government, but incapable
of governing on their own.  (Sound familiar?)  So they got booted
out too.
---David

My great-great-grandfather Kleinecke came to America in 1848, so
I always wanted to do some more research...
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Re: Irregulars Question: Linux over Windows XP

[David Hobby]

Erik Reuter wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 09:47:35AM -0400, David Hobby wrote:
> >   It can probably be solved by configuring boot loaders
> > the right way.  Putting Linux on first, and then making XP
> > install second would probably work.  But I bet there's a better
> > way...
> 
> The problem with that is that Windows installer will blow away your LILO
> or GRUB MBR boot loader that Linux was using. So be prepared (you'll
> need a boot disk or CD to recover)!  The better way is to install
> Windows XP first, but create a small partition for Windows XP (the
> Windows XP installer WILL let you do this).

Right, that's better.

> If you need to keep the current Windows XP data, then you COULD try
> resizing the partition, by first defragging your Windows partition and
> then running something like FIPS to do the resizing. But this process
> is fraught with peril and I would not recommend it. I would recommend
> another hard drive. But I guess money may be an issue, so if you go the
> resizing route, be sure to back up your important files before resizing.

I tried the resizing route, when I did it a few years back
(Win98).  It was a lot of work, and then there were a few files
that it seemed FIPS couldn't move anyway.  So I just wiped it all.
And then found out that I couldn't get drivers for all my
peripherals...

---David
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Re: Scouted: reconstruction then and now

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote:
> >
> > Nice find!  Germany did have long democratic traditions to
> > work with, though.  It had just momentarily forgotten them.  : )
> > Not that that could happen any place else.
> >
> Uh? Long democratic traditions??? Germany was a democracy
> from some time after WW1 to 1933+ [Hitler was elected democratically,
> and remained a democratic ruler until he could blame the Commies for
> putting fire to the Reischstag [sp? the Congress.de] - so a little
> over 10 years. Before that, it was an Absolute Monarchy under the
> Kaisers since 1870 or so, before that it was either under the Absolute
> Monarchy of the Austrian Habsburgs or local princes since 1000 or so,
> before that it was an Absolute Monarchy under the heirs of Charlemagne,
> etc.
> 
> Germany had *no* democratic traditions at all

None?  Not even whatever filtered in from Switzerland?
And what of the failed revolution of 1848?

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/germany/ger1848.html

You win, but it was STILL much better than Iraq is 
now.

---David
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Re: Irregulars Question: Linux over Windows XP

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> How can I install Linux if my computer is infected by
> a virus called "Windows XP"?
> 
> THe procedure aborted when the partition thing
> didn't recognize the HD

It can probably be solved by configuring boot loaders
the right way.  Putting Linux on first, and then making XP 
install second would probably work.  But I bet there's a better
way...

---David

Fast response, if no help.  : )
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Re: Scouted: reconstruction then and now

[David Hobby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Nice find!  Germany did have long democratic traditions to
> > work with, though.  It had just momentarily forgotten them.
> >
> 
> Not that long. Not really.

What, 1848 doesn't count?  Well, longer than Iraq,
anyway.  : )

---David
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Re: Scouted: reconstruction then and now

[David Hobby]

Bryon Daly wrote:
...
> History never really does fully repeat itself. An American president has
> just announced almost a Marshall Plan's worth of spending on a country far
> poorer than Germany, two years earlier than Harry Truman did. But Iraq is
> far less stable and far more menacing, and the world is less willing to
> help. This week, it looks as if the Americans have won the war and lost the
> peace -- but we ought to remember that it's looked that way before.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Nice find!  Germany did have long democratic traditions to
work with, though.  It had just momentarily forgotten them.  : )
Not that that could happen any place else.

---David
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Re: Trampoline bear

[David Hobby]

Andrew Crystall wrote:

> > > Almost as good as the flying cat...
> >
> > I'm not familiar with *that* one, but I'm intrigued now.
> 
> Want it offlist? (it's 372KB)
> 
> Anyone else?
> 
> Andy
> Dawn Falcon

Maybe.  Is it this one?

http://web.ms11.net/kittyclips/catfly.mpeg

(More of a jump, really.) (And 2mb.)

---David
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Re: br!n: feudalism meme in america

[David Hobby]

Damon wrote:
> 
> > So feudalism was just a lot of private contracts?  O.K..
> >But if one's choice is "accept a serfdom contract or starve", isn't
> >this in fact coercion?
> 
> Technically serfdom is outside the bounds of feudalism because a serf does
> not do homage or swear fealty for his lands. Reguardless, using feudalism
> to coerce one into a subservient role does not, by itself, imply that
> feudalism is inherently a system of pyramid shaped rulership. 

So how exactly IS promising goods and services to a lord 
in exchange for land different from my leasing a house?  I probably
could do it as barter if I had to--but money is easier.  Your
definition of feudalism might stretch so far that it is meaningless.

> There are plenty of examples where, in fact, where lords either released
> their tenants from servile status, or infact held no land fiefs at all
> ("bastard" feudalism).

I'm sure there were "good" lords, just as there were "good"
slave masters.  But we're talking about the system of feudalism AS
A WHOLE, aren't we?  So the correct thing to do is to average 
coercion used over all lords, to produce an average coercion 
coefficient for the system as a whole.  Or something like that.

---David

So did you learn the correct definition of feudalism in school,
or something?  Let's have it verbatim, then...  : )
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Re: br!n: feudalism meme in america

[David Hobby]

Damon wrote:
...
> Of course I could go on to say that feudalism was an agreement between two
> men in which one did service for the other in exchange for land, and has
> nothing to do with rulership. But then, I don't think anyone really cares
> about history anymore, or "getting it right"... :(

So feudalism was just a lot of private contracts?  O.K..
But if one's choice is "accept a serfdom contract or starve", isn't
this in fact coercion?
I've certainly leased a house, and not considered myself a
serf...
---David
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Re: those who can't, teach

[David Hobby]

Kevin Tarr wrote:
> 
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Content/read.asp?ID=55
> 
> The Center for the Study of Popular Culture released a report that
> documents the stunning bias against conservative viewpoints on college
> faculties and speakers platforms. At 32 elite colleges registered Democrats
> on the faculty outnumbered Republicans 10-1. At two of the schools –
> Bowdoin and Wellesley – the ratio was 23-1.

How about the following explanation for the phenomenom?
There are two main reasons that most college professors are liberal.
1) (Independence) They are curious and intelligent enough that they 
have thought about their politics, so they are not simply copying 
the political viewpoints they grew up with.
2) (Poverty) They are not very interested in making money, or they 
wouldn't have chosen an academic career.
The argument goes that there is a strong self-selection 
effect at work.  Almost all the Republicans who could be academics
are making money in business, leaving the academic jobs to the
Democrats.
See, no anti-conservative bias needed!

---David

Devil's Advocado
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Re: Perfect Numbers

[David Hobby]

>  What is the smallest known odd perfect number?
> >
> > Is too!  You could prove me wrong?  There is a
> > (large) lower bound, and no known upper bound.
> >
> Do you have any idea about this lower bound?

At least 10^300.  See section 5 of:

http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/mersenne/

> > Suppose my
> > function returns the first odd perfect number, or loops
> > forever.  Do I win?
> >
> Only if you can prove that your function terminates :-P

O.K..  But I'm sure that I could produce a program that
provably terminates where it is a LOT of work to figure out what
number it terminates at.  Judging your contest would not be an
easy task!
(Not that it is the best example, but consider the 
smallest solution of the Diophantine equation given in 
Archimedes' Cattle Problem.  See the second part of:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ArchimedesCattleProblem.html
)
---David
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Re: Perfect Numbers

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote:
> >
> >> Uh? Really? The last time I read about it, the only
> >
> > KNOWN
> >
> >> perfect numbers were the few that came from...
> >> 2^(n-1) (2^n - 1)
> >
> Right. I should have written the known part. It was
> yet unknown if there were odd perfect numbers.
> 
> OTOH, IIRC the number of odd perfect numbers is
> infinite, as there are infinite prime Mersenne numbers.

You mean EVEN.

> 
> >> What is the smallest known odd perfect number?
> >
> > Why it is:
> >
> > 235465427730240065113511519531(snip)
> >
> No, it isn't. Do you have any idea about it? Something
> like "it's between 10^10^100 and 10^10^... (100 times) ... 10^100"

Is too!  You could prove me wrong?  There is a
(large) lower bound, and no known upper bound.
But you did catch that I was joking? 

> PS: I once thought about a computer contest, something like:
> given an extension of a computer language [like C] where
> the integer type is unbound and memory is unbound, write
> a set of functions that use only x charaters [or tokens] such
> that one of them returns the biggest number in a finite time.
> 
> The first step would be the generalization of the power function
> to the next level: a *** 1 = a, a *** (n+1) = a ^ (a *** n). The next
> step would be a function that takes multiplication, power, and this
> superpower as members of a sequence of functions. The next
> step would be the next generation of this superfunction, and then
> the generalization of all these generalizations.
> 
> really big numbers Maru

Well, the classic function along those lines is
Ackermann's function.  See:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/AckermannFunction.html

But given more than a few tokens, we would reach the
stage where it was unknown who won the contest.  Suppose my
function returns the first odd perfect number, or loops
forever.  Do I win?

---David
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Re: Autism Article L3

[David Hobby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> This seems to do a nice job capturing alot of previous discussion on list
> with the addition of some new angles
> Dee

Nice article.  Thanks!

---David

 — ’ “ ” ...
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Re: Test (28 perfect number)

[David Hobby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> And I happen to be born on the 28th of May...

And I on the 14th of December.

> > > Now, what can you tell me about the number 28?
> > >
> > > Julia
...
> All that may be true, but it certainly is not a 42, so who cares?

As we have just demonstrated, the 14th and 28th are valid 
days of a month, while the 42nd is not.  So there.

---David
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Re: Perfect Numbers [was: Test]

[David Hobby]

Alberto Monteiro wrote:
> 
> David Hobby wrote about 28:
> >
> > It is nominally the number of days in a month.
> >It is a perfect number, the only even perfect number that
> >is a multiple of 7.  (There are some LARGE odd perfect numbers
> >that are multiples of 7, but they don't count.  : )  )
> >
> Uh? Really? The last time I read about it, the only

KNOWN

> perfect numbers were the few that came from...
> 2^(n-1) (2^n - 1)
> 
> What is the smallest known odd perfect number?

Why it is:

235465427730240065113511519531188116651118111691877655657249845
012110508006644334569943611654410015462454546554220005444991337
015228530046546213446048454569847983213536180141008705...

(continue randomly typing at key pad for 10 minutes)

2584250017

---David  : )

Runs test for random sequences?
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Re: Test

[David Hobby]

> Now, what can you tell me about the number 28?
> 
> Julia

It is nominally the number of days in a month.
It is a perfect number, the only even perfect number that 
is a multiple of 7.  (There are some LARGE odd perfect numbers
that are multiples of 7, but they don't count.  : )  )

---David
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Test

[David Hobby]

Sorry, just a test.  My email is having problems, so
I want to see if this message makes it into the archives.

---David

What, you wanted content?!
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Re: Question about the current e-mail plague

[David Hobby]

...
> > > I'm talking about sobig.f.
> > >
> > > I've been noticing that I don't get any messages with it overnight, but
> > > at some point during the morning, I start getting a whole bunch.  And
> > > then they drop off suddenly at some point during the evening.  Anyone
> > > else seeing this?  Anyone *not* seeing this?
> > >
> > > Just curious
> > >
> > Exactly the same here.
> >
...

So what you are seeing is bursts of emails sent out by 
new infections?  It takes a person going through their email to 
produce a new infection, and after that the worm emails like mad
for an average of a few hours until someone figures out what is
going on.
I saw bursts, but can't remember the time of day they
happened.

---David
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Re: Creative spam

[David Hobby]

Deborah Harrell wrote:
> 
> --- David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Deborah Harrell wrote:
> > >
> > > Lo, these many years ago, in college Organic
> > > Chemistry, I and a friend created the 'O-chem
> >>Personality Wheel,' with categories from
> Ortho-normal
> > > (your basic staid and sedate microbiology major)
> on
> > > to Para-normal (included mushroom-tea drinkers)
> and
> > > Epi-normal (off-the-ringers who were fun at
> parties
> > >but not invited to all-night study/gossip
> sessions);
> > > Abi-normals were of course those too weird to
> > relate even to D&Ders or SCAers!  ;D
> > >
> > > Debbi
> > > Meta-normal Herself Maru  :)
> >
> >   I give, what does meta-normal mean then?
> 
> 
> Well, as my friends and I didn't want to consider
> ourselves 'normal' 'weird' *or* 'sedate,' Meta-normals
> were of course practically perfect in every way...
> 
> 
> On Casual Aquaintence I'd Seem To Be Ortho-normal
> Actually Maru  ;D
> 
So "ortho" means "close", "meta" means "medium" and 
"para" means "as far away as possible"?  Note that Chemists
can not be perfectly normal, as two groups have to attach to
different carbons in the ring...
I like "abi", which is probably not actually Greek.

---David
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Re: Creative spam

[David Hobby]

Deborah Harrell wrote:

> 
> Lo, these many years ago, in college Organic
> Chemistry, I and a friend created the 'O-chem
> Personality Wheel,' with categories from Ortho-normal
> (your basic staid and sedate microbiology major) on to
> Para-normal (included mushroom-tea drinkers) and
> Epi-normal (off-the-ringers who were fun at parties
> but not invited to all-night study/gossip sessions);
> Abi-normals were of course those too weird to relate
> even to D&Ders or SCAers!  ;D
> 
> Debbi
> Meta-normal Herself Maru  :)

I give, what does meta-normal mean then?

---David

Gram-Schmidt Orthonormalization?
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Re: ADMIN: Another test from Yahoo...

[David Hobby]

Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> Not sure if we're there yet or not.  Somebody post to the list!  If I
> weren't getting my own messages, this would be easier!

I just got this--I'm posting right back.  Yes, I read you
loud and clear...  Oops, it's dated Monday.

---David

Flood of old emails
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Re: Scouted: Programming Language Inventor -OR- Serial Slayer

[David Hobby]

"Horn, John" wrote:
> 
> An aptitude test to determine whether you now the difference between
> a geek and a serial killer:
> 
> http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz
> 
> I got 6 out of 10.
> 
>   - jmh
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I got 5 out of 10.  "Don't go into law enforcement or 
IT recruitment".  This is probably because I recognized exactly
one serial killer, and because I figured out too late that 
"old picture" correlates strongly with "serial killer".
(That wasn't a spoiler, was it?)
---David
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Re: [SPAM]Worm Week

[David Hobby]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
> 
> I had at least 5 attempts to infect my PC tonight.
> Anyone else getting hits?
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16499-2003Aug19?language=printer
> 
> New Fast-Spreading Sobig Worm Adds to 'Worm Week'
> 
...

I had about 60 come in, all nicely packaged as "virus 
warnings" by the software at my college.  I also had a few 
"message undeliverable"s, from where I had been put as the
sender of some of the random spams that SoBig.F sends out.

---David

No, don't do it.  Don't open THE ATTACHMENT!!  Oh, crap...  : )
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Re: Most Dangerous States, now "43 times"

[David Hobby]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
...
> Evaluating the "43 times" fallacy

...a study by Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay published in the
> June 12, 1986 issue of New England Journal of Medicine (v. 314, n. 24, p.
> 1557-60) which concluded that a firearm in the home is "43 times more
> likely" to be used to kill a member of the household than to kill a criminal
> intruder. 

Most of the criticisms are valid, but there are a couple of
flaws.  (I've snipped all but the flaws.)

...
> How many successful self-defense events do not result in death of the
> criminal? An analysis by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz (Journal of Criminal Law
> and Criminology, v. 86 n.1 [Fall 1995]) of successful defensive uses of
> firearms against criminal attack concluded that the criminal is killed in
> only one case in approximately every one thousand attacks. 

But this isn't fair either, since the intent of the criminal is 
unknown.  The factor of 1000 is used as if all of these were prevented
homicides.  A large fraction were probably "prevented burglaries",
which should not be counted as high as human life.  (Possessing a gun
would have to foil MANY burglaries for that to be worth a sizable 
risk of killing a family member!)

...
> "Reverse causation" is a significant factor that does not lend itself to
> quantitative evaluation, although it surely accounts for a substantial
> number of additional homicides in the home. A person, such as a drug dealer,
> who is in fear for his life, will be more likely to have a firearm in his
> home than will an ordinary person. Put another way, if a person fears death
> he might arm himself and at the same time be at greater risk of being
> murdered. Thus Kellermann's correlation is strongly skewed away from normal
> defensive uses of firearms. His conclusion is thus no more valid than a
> finding that because fat people are more likely to have diet foods in their
> refrigerators we can conclude that diet foods "cause" obesity, or that
> because so many people die in hospitals we should conclude that hospitals
> "cause" premature death. Reverse causation thus further lowers the 0.006
> value, but by an unknown amount.

This is often called a "confounding variable", one factor that
increases the likelihood of both the "cause" (explanatory) and the 
"effect" (response) variables in a study.  They seem to be proposing
"fear of death by homicide" as a confounding variable, but it is 
not stated very clearly.
One can successfully argue for some connection here.  
Certainly people at high risk of being killed by homicide tend to
know this.  And if one is "afraid of homicide", one is more likely
to shoot people without carefully verifying they are strangers,
leading to more accidental killings of family members.
But it doesn't seem to me to be a very strong effect, and
it could well be countered by people in an armed household knowing 
enough not to do things like "climb in the window when you forget
your keys, rather than knock and wake everybody up".

---David

Where was this when I was still teaching my Statistics class?
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Re: Fight the Future: new RFID chips designed to withstanddrycleaning

[David Hobby]

Erik Reuter wrote:
...
> The only thing I can think of that might possibly work would be that
> each RFID chip delays a random amount of time before responding to a
> query from the reader (and this random time changes each time for each
> RFID chip that is queried). Then if the reader keeps querying over and
> over, eventually, by luck, it should get a clean signal from each RFID
> chip. But this seems that it would get very inefficient if you had
> hundreds of RFID chips in close proximity.
> 
> Anyone else have any ideas how it works?

Not I.  But in your system it would be enough to keep
querying until it was unlikely that any new chips were going to
be "heard".  All the system has to do is keep a list of all the
chips clearly heard on each query, and merge the lists at the
end.  It would be easy to calculate the probability that a chip
was remaining hidden in the collisions, and go until it was 
sufficiently small.
An alternative method with time delays is for the query
to specify which classes of chips should delay for how long.
(e.g.  delay := .01*(bit 3 + bit 5 + bit 11 + bit 12))

---David
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Re: Dubya with Kung Fu Grip

[David Hobby]

> >I want the figure, and the plane, and the Evil Saddam Hussein
> >Underground Fortress, ...
> 
> I'd have a blast with the "Falling Statue Playset", complete with "Falling
> Statue Action".  As for the Evil Saddam Hussein Underground Fortress, does
> it include an escape tunnel?
> 
> JJ

I think they should be combined.  Palace with statue on the
top layer, fortress beneath.  Requires three 25kg bags of play sand 
(not included).  I'm ambivalent about the escape tunnel, since GOOD
MUST TRIUMPH.  Maybe it's an optional extra, like the "Mobile WMD
Lab".  If so equipped, the tunnel is made of clear plastic (like a
hamster tube) which the industrious child would partially cover with 
sand.  Saddam lies down on a little car, which shoots down it.
(Either that, or we need smaller figures!)

---David

As for "Fireworks Wars", it's tempting.  But at $40 a figure, it
won't happen.  (Unless the anti-flag burning crowd makes it 
illegal, anyway.  Definitely a problem with action figures of
presidents.)
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Re: Dubya with Kung Fu Grip

[David Hobby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > True.  However, this current subthread started with the following:
> >
> > > I swear I've seen a big stone one of Lincoln, sitting
> > >down.  You mean that it WON'T come to the defense of Liberty
> > >when a rabbi writes the word on its forehead?
> >
> 
> So? He got confused, since, in the legend, the rabbi makes a clay figure and
> animates it, he does not do it to an existing statue. He had the right idea
> but applied it wrongly.

Rabbi Loew made his out of clay since it was easier.  But
stone also works (and stands up better against artillery fire).
See _Jane's Fighting Magic_, for instance.

---David
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Re: Most Dangerous States--"43 times"

[David Hobby]

Dan Minette wrote:

...
> >   "Mortality studies such as ours do not include cases in which burglars
> or
> > intruders are wounded or frightened away by the use or display of a
> firearm.
> > Cases in which would-be intruders may have purposely avoided a house
> known
> > to be armed are also not identified.A complete determination of firearm
> > risks versus benefits would require that these figures be known."
> 
> And the best way to show how this is true is to show how the % of people
> who are victims of crimes and own guns are much lower than the % of people
> who simply own guns. If owning guns is as much of a deterrant as this
> author suggests, than one should see a significantly lower crime rate for
> households that have guns vs. households that don't.

That's certainly a good way to do the study.  But one 
should control for the amount of crime in the neighborhood as
well, since it could well be that gun ownership is higher in
high crime neighborhoods.

---David
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Re: [Listref] Obesity - some encouraging news

[David Hobby]

Julia Thompson wrote:
...
> If you want to go all-out and get a Bowflex, that can
> *really* help, but not everyone wants to make *that* sort of commitment
> of resources and space.  :)
> 
> Julia
> 
> looking forward to having the lung capacity to exercise again

Julia--
I'm sure you are!  Best wishes for your pregnancy, etc.
To add my two cents:
First, exercise.  Second, buy exercise equipment.  : )
My wife and I have learned the hard way that the general rule is:
"First do the behavior, then after it is established, get the
pricey equipment for it."

---David

I still have the sitting rowing-machine thing in the basement, as
a concrete reminder of this.  It was an O.K. clothes rack, but not
worth the space it took up...
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