Re: Which Version of ColdFusion 9?

[Jochem van Dieten]

On 3/9/10, Ian Skinner wrote:
> I notice that the only Solaris flavor of ColdFusion is apparently for
> 64-bit systems.

Install JBoss or Glassfish on your Solaris and deploy an EAR file with
ColdFusion on it.

Jochem


-- 
Jochem van Dieten
http://jochem.vandieten.net/

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Michael Dinowitz]

It's not something I would actually use but as long as we've meandered
over to it, I might was well ask it. :)

Philosophically, I'm against people being able to call GC from within
a request. Programmatic GC might promote the bad habit of depending on
it over cleaner and tighter applications. If I see a request is taking
up more memory than it logically should then my first place to look is
the code, not the java.

--
Michael Dinowitz




On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Dave Watts  wrote:
>
>> So the question now is if GC can be called programatically after all
>> references to a large 'object' is removed during a single request.
>
> While Brad points out that this is possible, I don't know if objects
> are actually marked for deletion until the request has finished. In
> addition, it's the kind of thing that you really don't want to get
> into - if you want to manage memory directly, that's why we have
> C/C++. The thrust of modern languages like Java is that memory
> management should be something that the computer does, rather than the
> programmer.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
> GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.
>
> 

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Brad Wood]

This is starting to sound like one of those "Hibernate knows best" sort of 
discussions.  lol

A sentiment I generally agree with, mind you.  Second guessing Java's GC 
logic is probably for pretty darn special scenarios.

~Brad

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Watts" 
To: "cf-talk" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: query passed by value from a udf?


>
>> So the question now is if GC can be called programatically after all
>> references to a large 'object' is removed during a single request.
>
> While Brad points out that this is possible, I don't know if objects
> are actually marked for deletion until the request has finished. In
> addition, it's the kind of thing that you really don't want to get
> into - if you want to manage memory directly, that's why we have
> C/C++. The thrust of modern languages like Java is that memory
> management should be something that the computer does, rather than the
> programmer.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/


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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Michael Dinowitz]

Hm. I used this without any real results:



I'll have to try java.lang.System once my comic bot is done it's
nights work. Don't want to interrupt a 'real' operation for an
experiment that'll just distract me from what I'm supposed to be
doing. :)

--
Michael Dinowitz




On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Brad Wood  wrote:
>
>> So the question now is if GC can be called programatically after all
>> references to a large 'object' is removed during a single request.
>
> Yes.
>
> 
> 
>
> Careful though-- Garbage Collection can be an expensive operation.  Also, GC
> can be a little complicated.  Just because you run the code above may not
> guaruntee everything you expect to be collected will be.
>
> ~Brad
>
>
> 

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Dave Watts]

> So the question now is if GC can be called programatically after all
> references to a large 'object' is removed during a single request.

While Brad points out that this is possible, I don't know if objects
are actually marked for deletion until the request has finished. In
addition, it's the kind of thing that you really don't want to get
into - if you want to manage memory directly, that's why we have
C/C++. The thrust of modern languages like Java is that memory
management should be something that the computer does, rather than the
programmer.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Brad Wood]

> So the question now is if GC can be called programatically after all
> references to a large 'object' is removed during a single request.

Yes.




Careful though-- Garbage Collection can be an expensive operation.  Also, GC 
can be a little complicated.  Just because you run the code above may not 
guaruntee everything you expect to be collected will be.

~Brad 


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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Michael Dinowitz]

Now that is a very profound way of putting it.

Well, this deals with the issues I had with how cfinvoke and other
tags were described as working. Now I just have to say it right. Fun.
:)

So the question now is if GC can be called programatically after all
references to a large 'object' is removed during a single request.
That'll have to be for another time when I don't have a chapter to
finish. :)

> The query itself, as an object on the heap, is never actually in the
> function's local scope. Objects on the heap don't really have a scope.
> References do, and the reference to that query that's declared in the
> function's will be marked for deletion when the function finishes. The
> query object itself will be marked for deletion when there are no more
> references pointing to it.
>
>> > References exist on the stack; the objects being referenced
>> > exist in the heap.
>>
>> Can you expand a bit on what you're saying here?
>
> Sure. If you create a query:
>
> 
> ...
> 
>
> what's actually happening there is that you've created two things -
> the query itself, which is just an object with some stuff in it, and a
> reference to that object, "foo".
>
> So, then you do something like this:
>
> 
>
> Now, you still have one query object, but two references to that
> object: foo and bar.
>
> Next, you do something like this:
>
> 
>
> Now, you still have the original query object, but only one reference
> to it: bar. Since all this is happening in the span of a single page
> request, it won't likely make any difference in memory consumption,
> but you could just as easily create references in the Session,
> Application or Server scopes and things would work the same way.
>
> This concept of references on the stack vs objects in the heap is
> common in many modern languages. Here's a description from the "Java
> for ColdFusion Developers" book that came out a few years ago:
>
> http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=31755&seqNum=8
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
> GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.
>
> 

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Re: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[denstar]

Hey Christian!

I should have said something the other day, but the "select tag" stuff
works on HTML elements too, in the latest CFEclipse preview release.
I broke the formatter putting it in, but I've got unit tests for the
formatting, so me no worry long.

Still need to add a context menu for tag select, and "edit tag" still
only works on CFML elements, but hey, we're getting there.

The awesome part is that I can use what I used to do the tag
selection, for doing that "expand tag selection" stuff you guys were
talking about.  Ctrl+] expanding outwards from the selected tag.

Next is writing some unit tests for the proposal stuff, so we can nail
that down, instead of flying the helicopter, as it were.

1.4.0 should be a pretty kick'n release.

-- 
Without struggle, no progress and no result. Every breaking of habit
produces a change in the machine.
George Gurdjieff

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Christian N. Abad wrote:
>
> Ben:
>
> I'm in the same boat as you!  (...Seriously...)
>
> I've been using HomeSite+ (HS+) for YEARS, since I started working with CF
> 4.52!  I have tried repeatedly to make the transition to Aptana / CFEclipse
> and now CFBuilder countless times, only to come back running to HS+.  It
> just works and it works FAST!  It's PERFECT for me...
>
> My biggest issues with moving away from HS+ is that the functionality that I
> use the most, like "Select Full Tag" and "Edit Tag" don't work nearly as
> well - or at all - in the aforementioned other editors.  It's plain and
> simple; I can't work efficiently without this functionality.
>
> However, I've been actively participating with the CFEclipse Team via their
> Google Group and they have been listening to my feedback and even
> incorporating my needs into their nightly builds.  In other words, they are
> listening and actually implementing what I need.  We're not 100% there yet,
> but we're getting closer with each nightly build.  With any patience
> diligence, I will be able to move to CFEclipse within a month or two...
>
> So, my advice to you is to join their Google Group and present your needs to
> the CFEclipse Team, and who knows - maybe they will build you the tool that
> you need.  http://groups.google.com/group/cfeclipse-users
>
> Just my $.02!
>
> G

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Re: overwriting a component reference variable

[Kevin Pepperman]

>
> This implies no memory re-usage within a request,
> which seems to be the consensus.


Did you let it run until you reached the maximum heap space?
20,000 is pretty tame, unless each one somehow can actually claim a good
chunk of random memory.

A query really is not a good way to test this either, since there is quite a
bit of magic behind the curtain that allows CFML access to underlying
Java/jdbc logic, so just because you have 20,000 objects each with a query
does not mean the JVM is not managing it in some arcane way and wont GC or
pagefile when it has to.

Try throwing something extreme at it just for fun-- make a new 500K block of
random text in EACH bean.

I have found that a well tuned JVM will always use most of the heap all of
the time in production.
GC only happens when needed and then it fills right back up.
If something huge is thrown at it, you see the page file activity, and JVM
manages to do the task.


-- 
/Kevin Pepperman

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: overwriting a component reference variable

[Michael Dinowitz]

> there is a good reference to the effects of this, apparent memory leaks
> here:
> http://www.schierberl.com/cfblog/index.cfm/2006/10/16/memoryLeak_variablesScope

I wonder if his test has been repeated in CF9. I would expect that
what he saw was fixed. If not, then people would be setting component
references to "" in every high end application and framework.

> it is only if you copy the result somewhere that you get the reference
> that gets saved. YOu can "unsave" it by rewriting the variable the
> reference is in.

But doing so does not free up memory during the request, so the point
seems moot, unless the variables scope memory leak Mike mentioned
still exists.


I just tried to run a 20,000 iteration loop with each iteration
instantiating a cfc and invoking a method to run a query (which was
stored in the local scope). Nothing returned from the method and no
reference to the cfc, the method, or it's data kept. The memory used
by CF grew during the whole time the request was running and did not
shrink in the least. This implies no memory re-usage within a request,
which seems to be the consensus.

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Dave Watts]

> But we're talking about a single request so if there is no garbage
> collection during a requests lifetime, being eligible or not makes no
> difference.

Right, but you could be storing the reference you create for a lot
longer than a single page request.

> Be that as it may, you're saying that the fact that a reference to the
> query is still in use, the query 'jumps' out of the UDF's local scope
> to live on in the requests memory.

The query itself, as an object on the heap, is never actually in the
function's local scope. Objects on the heap don't really have a scope.
References do, and the reference to that query that's declared in the
function's will be marked for deletion when the function finishes. The
query object itself will be marked for deletion when there are no more
references pointing to it.

> > References exist on the stack; the objects being referenced
> > exist in the heap.
>
> Can you expand a bit on what you're saying here?

Sure. If you create a query:


...


what's actually happening there is that you've created two things -
the query itself, which is just an object with some stuff in it, and a
reference to that object, "foo".

So, then you do something like this:



Now, you still have one query object, but two references to that
object: foo and bar.

Next, you do something like this:



Now, you still have the original query object, but only one reference
to it: bar. Since all this is happening in the span of a single page
request, it won't likely make any difference in memory consumption,
but you could just as easily create references in the Session,
Application or Server scopes and things would work the same way.

This concept of references on the stack vs objects in the heap is
common in many modern languages. Here's a description from the "Java
for ColdFusion Developers" book that came out a few years ago:

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=31755&seqNum=8

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: overwriting a component reference variable

[Dave Watts]

> So if your right then a thousand iteration loop with each iteration
> doing a cfinvoke will cause the template request to keep growing in
> memory usage. There is no resource re-usage in the request.

That would be my expectation.

> This also means that the statement "after a method is invoked using
> cfinvoke, the component instance is destroyed" is not 100% true. It is
> destroyed, but nothing is gained by the destruction. I was always
> under the impression that using cfinvoke was 'less costly' than
> creating a variable to contain a component instance. :(

The ideal response would be to say "marked for deletion" instead of
"destroyed". But from the programmer's perspective, the component will
not exist.

I suspect it is less costly to invoke a method directly, as there is a
cost to creating a reference. I don't want to speculate on how much
less costly it is, though.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Michael Dinowitz]

> No, the instance itself - the variable that corresponds to the
> function itself - need not stay in memory. It will go out of scope
> right after it runs, and will be eligible for garbage collection. But
> the query that was created by that function will remain in memory
> until all references to that query no longer exist.

But we're talking about a single request so if there is no garbage
collection during a requests lifetime, being eligible or not makes no
difference.

Be that as it may, you're saying that the fact that a reference to the
query is still in use, the query 'jumps' out of the UDF's local scope
to live on in the requests memory.

> thing to understand here is the difference between the stack and the
> heap. References exist on the stack; the objects being referenced
> exist in the heap.

Can you expand a bit on what you're saying here?

Thanks

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Dave Watts]

> It's not a question of circumvention, just of understanding how things
> operate under the covers. If a statement is made in the docs that "any
> variables local to a UDF are destroyed when the UDF is exited", where
> does it leave things like the query in my example. Either it is not
> destroyed, and a reference to the query is passed or it is destroyed
> and a copy (ala the duplicate() function) is passed. Dave holds by the
> former.

Well, the answer to that question depends on how you define
"variable". From the perspective of the programmer, the variable is
destroyed - I can't reference it any more after the function has
finished. But under the covers, again, there is more than just a
"variable". There's an object, and a reference to that object. We
generally think of the references as if they were the variables,
because that makes sense and is usually the most convenient way to
think of things. If I'm trying to explain the scope of variables
created within a function to an inexperienced programmer, I'm going to
hold off talking about passing by value vs passing by reference. But
really, it's the objects that matter.

And it's clear that queries and structures are passed by reference.
You can see this clearly by assigning a query to a new name, and then
changing the contents using either the original or the new name -
you'll see the contents have changed for "both" (and of course,
there's really only one query object in memory). To see this at work
in the context of a function, write a function that creates a local
query, copies that to a persistent variable (session, application,
server) and returns the local query. Then, outside the function,
change either the persistent query or the returned query, and you'll
see that one changes the other, because again they actually point to
the same object on the heap.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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RE: query passed by value from a udf?

[Mark A. Kruger]

Very true 

Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com


-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:36 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: query passed by value from a udf?


> You can circumvent this using duplicate( )
>
> 
>
> Which makes a deep copy of the object by value.

While you can do this, usually you shouldn't. Creating duplicate
objects is expensive, which is why the default behavior of CF is to
pass queries and structures by reference. This approach is common in
many other programming languages as well. You should only create a
deep copy when you explicitly want to have two separate variables that
will presumably be manipulated in different ways.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.



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RE: query passed by value from a udf?

[Mark A. Kruger]

Yes ... I jumped in late without paying attention Michael. I'm tracking now
:)  

Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com


-Original Message-
From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:mdino...@houseoffusion.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:35 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: query passed by value from a udf?


It's not a question of circumvention, just of understanding how things
operate under the covers. If a statement is made in the docs that "any
variables local to a UDF are destroyed when the UDF is exited", where
does it leave things like the query in my example. Either it is not
destroyed, and a reference to the query is passed or it is destroyed
and a copy (ala the duplicate() function) is passed. Dave holds by the
former.

Unless I hear from someone who's gone deeper into ColdFusion's
internal memory management, I'm going to assume Dave is basically
right.

How about Railo? Gert, want to chime in?

Thanks

--
Michael Dinowitz




On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Mark A. Kruger 
wrote:
>
> You can circumvent this using duplicate( )
>
> 
>
> Which makes a deep copy of the object by value.



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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Dave Watts]

> You can circumvent this using duplicate( )
>
> 
>
> Which makes a deep copy of the object by value.

While you can do this, usually you shouldn't. Creating duplicate
objects is expensive, which is why the default behavior of CF is to
pass queries and structures by reference. This approach is common in
many other programming languages as well. You should only create a
deep copy when you explicitly want to have two separate variables that
will presumably be manipulated in different ways.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Michael Dinowitz]

It's not a question of circumvention, just of understanding how things
operate under the covers. If a statement is made in the docs that "any
variables local to a UDF are destroyed when the UDF is exited", where
does it leave things like the query in my example. Either it is not
destroyed, and a reference to the query is passed or it is destroyed
and a copy (ala the duplicate() function) is passed. Dave holds by the
former.

Unless I hear from someone who's gone deeper into ColdFusion's
internal memory management, I'm going to assume Dave is basically
right.

How about Railo? Gert, want to chime in?

Thanks

--
Michael Dinowitz




On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Mark A. Kruger  wrote:
>
> You can circumvent this using duplicate( )
>
> 
>
> Which makes a deep copy of the object by value.

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Dave Watts]

> The way you make it sound, the instance of the UDF that is run stays
> in memory as long as there is a reference to the query that it
> contains.

No, the instance itself - the variable that corresponds to the
function itself - need not stay in memory. It will go out of scope
right after it runs, and will be eligible for garbage collection. But
the query that was created by that function will remain in memory
until all references to that query no longer exist.

> If I expanded the example to say that the UDF was a method of some
> component and was being called with a cfinvoke, the same case would
> apply. The component instance will stay in memory as long as a
> reference to the query exists, even though the query should be local
> to the UDF and nothing should be returned from the UDF.

No, again, the queries created by a method of a CFC don't depend on
the CFC's continued existence, as long as other references to those
queries now exist. This may be a bit counterintuitive, but the useful
thing to understand here is the difference between the stack and the
heap. References exist on the stack; the objects being referenced
exist in the heap.

> You also use the term "go out of scope" which I take to mean "can no
> longer be accessed, but still exists in memory". I assume this is
> linked to my other question about the memory used by invoked
> components being reused or not. If the memory is not reused, the
> component stays in memory but is no longer accessible ('out of scope')

Right. Once a variable name ("reference") goes out of scope, I can't
refer to the object to which that reference points unless there's
another reference pointing to the same object.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: overwriting a component reference variable

[Kym Kovan]

On 10/03/2010 14:19, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> So if your right then a thousand iteration loop with each iteration
> doing a cfinvoke will cause the template request to keep growing in
> memory usage. There is no resource re-usage in the request.

there is a good reference to the effects of this, apparent memory leaks 
here:
http://www.schierberl.com/cfblog/index.cfm/2006/10/16/memoryLeak_variablesScope


>
> This also means that the statement "after a method is invoked using
> cfinvoke, the component instance is destroyed" is not 100% true. It is
> destroyed, but nothing is gained by the destruction. I was always
> under the impression that using cfinvoke was 'less costly' than
> creating a variable to contain a component instance. :(

it is only if you copy the result somewhere that you get the reference 
that gets saved. YOu can "unsave" it by rewriting the variable the 
reference is in.

>
>> It's highly unlikely that GC will happen during a specific single page
>> request in such a way to delete component instances created and marked
>> within that same request. So, I'd expect that each invocation within
>> the request will end up allocating its own memory, and that memory
>> won't be reused until sometime after the page request has completed.

correct.

-- 

Yours,

Kym Kovan
mbcomms.net.au


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RE: query passed by value from a udf?

[Mark A. Kruger]

You can circumvent this using duplicate( )



Which makes a deep copy of the object by value.

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:59 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: query passed by value from a udf?


> Here's another useless question. When the following UDF is invoked, it
> will return a query. Inside the UDF, the query is being assigned to
> the local scope so theoretically it should 'die' when the UDF is
> finished running. But it's returning a complex datatype, which should
> be passed by reference. Is the query being returned passed by
> reference or by value. I'm assuming value because the reference should
> 'die' with the UDF.
>
> 
>        
>                select top 1 *
>                from titles
>        
>
>        
> 

Queries are always, ALWAYS, passed by reference, no matter what you're
passing them into or out of. Let's assume you have a line below the
function:



In this case, there are two references that point to the same object,
assuming that you're calling the function and returning the value into
a variable of your own. But there's only one object. The reference
inside the function (local.manga) will go out of scope when the
function exits, but the object corresponding to that reference will
only go out of scope when the variable myquery itself goes out of
scope.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training



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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Michael Dinowitz]

Dave,

The way you make it sound, the instance of the UDF that is run stays
in memory as long as there is a reference to the query that it
contains.
If I expanded the example to say that the UDF was a method of some
component and was being called with a cfinvoke, the same case would
apply. The component instance will stay in memory as long as a
reference to the query exists, even though the query should be local
to the UDF and nothing should be returned from the UDF.

You also use the term "go out of scope" which I take to mean "can no
longer be accessed, but still exists in memory". I assume this is
linked to my other question about the memory used by invoked
components being reused or not. If the memory is not reused, the
component stays in memory but is no longer accessible ('out of scope')

Rather useless questions, but...

Thanks. :)
--
Michael Dinowitz

> Queries are always, ALWAYS, passed by reference, no matter what you're
> passing them into or out of. Let's assume you have a line below the
> function:
>
> 
>
> In this case, there are two references that point to the same object,
> assuming that you're calling the function and returning the value into
> a variable of your own. But there's only one object. The reference
> inside the function (local.manga) will go out of scope when the
> function exits, but the object corresponding to that reference will
> only go out of scope when the variable myquery itself goes out of
> scope.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
> GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training
>
> 

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Re: overwriting a component reference variable

[Michael Dinowitz]

Dave,

So if your right then a thousand iteration loop with each iteration
doing a cfinvoke will cause the template request to keep growing in
memory usage. There is no resource re-usage in the request.

This also means that the statement "after a method is invoked using
cfinvoke, the component instance is destroyed" is not 100% true. It is
destroyed, but nothing is gained by the destruction. I was always
under the impression that using cfinvoke was 'less costly' than
creating a variable to contain a component instance. :(

> It's highly unlikely that GC will happen during a specific single page
> request in such a way to delete component instances created and marked
> within that same request. So, I'd expect that each invocation within
> the request will end up allocating its own memory, and that memory
> won't be reused until sometime after the page request has completed.

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Re: query passed by value from a udf?

[Dave Watts]

> Here's another useless question. When the following UDF is invoked, it
> will return a query. Inside the UDF, the query is being assigned to
> the local scope so theoretically it should 'die' when the UDF is
> finished running. But it's returning a complex datatype, which should
> be passed by reference. Is the query being returned passed by
> reference or by value. I'm assuming value because the reference should
> 'die' with the UDF.
>
> 
>        
>                select top 1 *
>                from titles
>        
>
>        
> 

Queries are always, ALWAYS, passed by reference, no matter what you're
passing them into or out of. Let's assume you have a line below the
function:



In this case, there are two references that point to the same object,
assuming that you're calling the function and returning the value into
a variable of your own. But there's only one object. The reference
inside the function (local.manga) will go out of scope when the
function exits, but the object corresponding to that reference will
only go out of scope when the variable myquery itself goes out of
scope.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training

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query passed by value from a udf?

[Michael Dinowitz]

Here's another useless question. When the following UDF is invoked, it
will return a query. Inside the UDF, the query is being assigned to
the local scope so theoretically it should 'die' when the UDF is
finished running. But it's returning a complex datatype, which should
be passed by reference. Is the query being returned passed by
reference or by value. I'm assuming value because the reference should
'die' with the UDF.



select top 1 *
from titles
  





--
Michael Dinowitz

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Re: Development and Testing Environment Recommendations

[Kevin Pepperman]

Another vote for VM from me.

elasticserver.com is great-- I have an paid account there, I want to support
them because they are awesome!

Another very nice thing is you can test ANYTHING without worrying about a
sever failing.
Plus, it is very easy to load test an app-- you can limit the memory and
cores, then load it up and see what it does.

Another thing I have been doing is using ANT to create full applications in
a .war file. (you also can do it manually)
It allows me to bundle a Railo/BD/ACF WEB-INF folder with my app, and deploy
it to and servlet container in VM to test.


-- 
/Kevin Pepperman

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: Which Version of ColdFusion 9?

[James Holmes]

The only supported Solaris config is on Sparc:

http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/systemreqs/

This means 64 bit Solaris.

mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/


On 10 March 2010 03:42, Ian Skinner  wrote:

>
> I'm experimenting with using a Virtual Machine (VirtualBox) to do some
> preliminary testing of ColdFusion 9.  At the moment, I have an
> OpenSolaris VM environment setup on a Windows XP host laptop.  So I went
> to download a ColdFusion installer to see what I could do with this, and
> I notice that the only Solaris flavor of ColdFusion is apparently for
> 64-bit systems.  I'm pretty sure that the OpenSolaris VM I have is
> configured as a 32-bit system as the laptop is definitely 32-bit, and
> while it maybe possible for later versions of VirtualBox to simulate a
> 64-bit environment on a 32-bit host, I am nearly positive that this was
> not enabled on what I currently have.
>
> So, with the hope that I do not need to go back to square one with the
> VM installation and configuration, do I have any viable options to
> install CF on this system?  Is some version either the 64-bit Solaris or
> 32-bit Linux or AIX a viable option here?
>
> 

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Re: Stack overflow in self nested custom tag

[Dave Watts]

> Doesn't that depend on what you're trying to achieved? I can image
> that's a good solution for simple nesting of tags, but not for highly
> complex nesting of an indeterminate number of different child tags,
> child of child tags and recursive nesting.

No, actually, I find it easier especially in those cases, as long as
one single thing is true - you have a specific hierarchy of tags. For
example, let's say you have cf_root, cf_branch and cf_leaf. As long as
you know that cf_root will only contain cf_branch tags, cf_branch will
only contain cf_branch and cf_leaf, it's very easy to perform
operations using whatever subtags are present.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: Stack overflow in self nested custom tag

[Chris Velevitch]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 02:31, Dave Watts  wrote:
> Instead of having the processing done in the child tags, you can
> simply pass the data from those tags back to the parent tag during its
> end execution mode, using the CFASSOCIATE tag. This will let you do
> things that are a bit harder to do in the nested tag itself.

Doesn't that depend on what you're trying to achieved? I can image
that's a good solution for simple nesting of tags, but not for highly
complex nesting of an indeterminate number of different child tags,
child of child tags and recursive nesting.



Chris
--
Chris Velevitch
Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
m: 0415 469 095
www.apugs.org.au

Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
March 2010: ColdFusion Application Architecture for the Impatient and
Using jQuery when Flash is Overkill
Date: 29nd Mar 6pm for 6:30 start
Details and RVSP on http://groups.adobe.com/posts/148c9056a4

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Re: Which Version of ColdFusion 9?

[Gerald Guido]

>>So, with the hope that I do not need to go back to square one with the
VM installation and configuration,

Ian, I don't know if this answers your question but...

One of the cool things about VM's is that you can save copies of the VM
image. Just get the vm where you want it and copy the files to another dir.

It is a nice little safety net for experimenting and doing R&D. I couldn't
begin to count how many Linux installs I have hosed over the years trying
out stuff like you are.

HTH

G!
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Ian Skinner  wrote:

>
> I'm experimenting with using a Virtual Machine (VirtualBox) to do some
> preliminary testing of ColdFusion 9.  At the moment, I have an
> OpenSolaris VM environment setup on a Windows XP host laptop.  So I went
> to download a ColdFusion installer to see what I could do with this, and
> I notice that the only Solaris flavor of ColdFusion is apparently for
> 64-bit systems.  I'm pretty sure that the OpenSolaris VM I have is
> configured as a 32-bit system as the laptop is definitely 32-bit, and
> while it maybe possible for later versions of VirtualBox to simulate a
> 64-bit environment on a 32-bit host, I am nearly positive that this was
> not enabled on what I currently have.
>
> So, with the hope that I do not need to go back to square one with the
> VM installation and configuration, do I have any viable options to
> install CF on this system?  Is some version either the 64-bit Solaris or
> 32-bit Linux or AIX a viable option here?
>
> 

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Re: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Ian Skinner]

On 3/9/2010 1:20 PM, Matthew Smith wrote:
>> you can also do a  with a timeout value of 0.
>>  
> Much easier.  Any drawbacks?  I don't need any values back from the request,
> I just need it to run.
>

Other than it is much more limited in capabilities then the modern 
 equivalent, if it meets your needs within its limitations 
the is nothing wrong with the technique.  Just realize that there is 
*zero* way to know what the results of the abandon request was, so if it 
is throwing errors or not doing what it is supposed to be doing, it is 
not going to be telling you of its problems.


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Auto-Login to Google Analytics

[Donnie Carvajal]

We want to add single login access to Google Analytics from our Content 
Management System for our clients.  I know there is an API for grabbing the 
Analytics data, but we are not interested in reproducing the reports.  We like 
the UI provided by Google.  We just want to give our clients a link inside of 
the Administrative portion of the Content Management System that will open up 
the Analytics Profile reports.

Is it possible to authenticate to Google using the AuthSub and then pass the 
token in a GET/POST to Analytics?  If so, does anyone know the syntax?  Should 
I be looking at using OpenID instead?  I have found tons of articles explaining 
how to log in to everything but Google using OpenID.  It seems to me if Google 
has already authorized the login, then accessing the services should be allowed.

I realize that this problem is the same trying to access any Google services 
and this is not just Analytics specific.  So if anyone has had luck linking to 
any Google services from inside a password protected app, changing the service 
should be simple.

Any help is appreciated,

Donnie 

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CFScript query service problem

[Kris Sisk]

I'm trying to use the query service and I'm running into the issue that no 
matter what I put into the object it throws an error when I try to execute it. 
The specific error I'm seeing is "Attribute validation error for tag CFQUERY. 
It does not allow the attribute 1." The code I'm feeding into it right now is:

q=new query();
q.setDatasource("Datasource");
q.setSQL("SELECT * FROM links");
result=q.execute();

Anyone have any idea why this would be happening? My code pretty well matches 
every example I can find of how to use this service so I'm pretty stumped. 

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RE: overwriting a component reference variable

[brad]

I cannot give a definite answer, but I can hazard a guess!  My
understanding of the JVM is that memory is never reclaimed in-process. 
Instead it is re-claimed the next time GC is run.

So in your example with 20 cfinvokes, I would expect a high likelihood
that all 20 instances of that object still "exist" in memory when the
request is completed but with no hard references.  They will get picked
up the next time garbage collection executes.

~Brad

 Original Message 
Subject: overwriting a component reference variable
From: Michael Dinowitz 
Date: Tue, March 09, 2010 3:08 pm
To: cf-talk 


Just a fast question about components and memory so that I can be
extra exact for a chapter I'm writing on components.



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Re: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Matthew Smith]

>you can also do a  with a timeout value of 0.

Much easier.  Any drawbacks?  I don't need any values back from the request,
I just need it to run.

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Ian Skinner  wrote:

>
> On 3/9/2010 11:36 AM, Wil Genovese wrote:
> > Another way is to use AJAX.
> >
> > Wil
> >
>
> Yet another way, if you want to go old school - before the days of
>  you can also do a  with a timeout value of 0.
>
> Another new school way that may be relevant, is ColdFusion gateways.
> Really depends on what one is actually trying to accomplish.
>
>
> 

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Re: overwriting a component reference variable

[Dave Watts]

> When the cfinvoke tag is used with a component name, the component is
> instantiated and a method of the component is run. In most cases,
> there is no reference to the component returned. In other words, it's
> 'gone'. Is any of the memory used by the template request freed up at
> the time? If another cfinvoke tag is run, will it use the allocated
> memory that was used by the previous cfinvoke tag or will it take more
> memory for the request. Basically, if I have 20 cfinvokes running in a
> request, will it's memory usage grow for each invoke or will the
> memory be stable (assuming all of the invokes use the same amount of
> memory)?
>
> If the memory used by a cfinvoke is freed up to be used by other
> variables or cfinvokes, what about component references that are
> killed. In other words, if I use cfobject to create a variable
> containing a reference to a component, will overwriting that variable
> free up that memory for other us during the template run or is that
> memory no longer usable with the component still existing in memory
> but no longer accessible?

Components are really no different from any other variables. When no
more references to a variable exist, that variable is marked for
deletion. It will get deleted when the garbage collection gets around
to it. If you invoke a method of a component that doesn't return an
instance of that component, the component instance created by using
CFINVOKE itself is marked for deletion immediately, I'd expect. But
that doesn't mean you'll know when exactly it gets deleted, or that
there is a single right answer for when it will be deleted - after
all, you can configure the aggressiveness and parallel nature of
garbage collection in jvm.config.

It's highly unlikely that GC will happen during a specific single page
request in such a way to delete component instances created and marked
within that same request. So, I'd expect that each invocation within
the request will end up allocating its own memory, and that memory
won't be reused until sometime after the page request has completed.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

~|
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RE: Development and Testing Environment Recommendations

[Bobby]

At work, we handle all of our Dev and QA environments on virtual servers so
we can set it up exactly like production without buying all of the same
hardware twice.

At home, I use VMWare Fusion on my Mac to mimic whatever environment I need
to when developing/testing. 

Virtualization gives you the flexibility you will need and is definitely my
suggestion.


-Original Message-
From: Jessica Garruto [mailto:jgarr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 3:32 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Development and Testing Environment Recommendations


We are formalizing new development and testing environments for our
ColdFusion web sites and I would like to know what recommendations other
developers/administrators have regarding server configuration and/or best
practices.

We are currently running multiple ColdFusion 8 sites (~10) on IIS/Windows.
Most of our sites require SSL. We should probably be able to run both SSL
and non-SSL versions of the sites on the development environment. We have
several new 64-bit servers available for these updated environments.

(Additionally, we also develop and administer several Java sites; right now
it looks like they will most likely live on their own set of servers.) 

In an ideal world, do you think we should put both Test and Development
environments on one box (using separate IPs such as site-dev.siteUrl and
site-test.siteUrl), or create multiple sites using VMware, or utilize two
entirely separate servers? And are there considerations for each of these
scenarios?

Thanks in advance for your insights... 



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Re: Phantom Scheduled Tasks

[Dorioo]

Cflocation within a scheduled task would be the first thing I'd toss
while testing. Doesn't sit well with me.

I'd replace it with a CFHTTP call (you're generating a url already)
and if I really wanted to decouple the two I may put it in a CFTHREAD.
Just some testing ideas.

- Gabriel

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Bryan S  wrote:
>
> So today's work narrows things down even further.
>
> The Cold Fusion Scheduled Task calls Event1.
>
> Event1 constructs a URL and passes it to a .cfm which uses a cflocation to
> fire the URL.
>
> The fired URL calls Event2 that starts a report.
>
> I pass an identifier through from the the URL called by the Cold Fusion
> Scheduled Task (Event1) all the way through to the URL fired by the
> cflocation (Event2).
>
> Five minutes later the exact same URL is fired again. There is not a second
> call to Event1. The Cold Fusion Scheduled Task (Event1) does not get called
> again.
>
> Nothing happens until both reports are finished and then the process is
> repeated.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
> 

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overwriting a component reference variable

[Michael Dinowitz]

Just a fast question about components and memory so that I can be
extra exact for a chapter I'm writing on components.

When the cfinvoke tag is used with a component name, the component is
instantiated and a method of the component is run. In most cases,
there is no reference to the component returned. In other words, it's
'gone'. Is any of the memory used by the template request freed up at
the time? If another cfinvoke tag is run, will it use the allocated
memory that was used by the previous cfinvoke tag or will it take more
memory for the request. Basically, if I have 20 cfinvokes running in a
request, will it's memory usage grow for each invoke or will the
memory be stable (assuming all of the invokes use the same amount of
memory)?

If the memory used by a cfinvoke is freed up to be used by other
variables or cfinvokes, what about component references that are
killed. In other words, if I use cfobject to create a variable
containing a reference to a component, will overwriting that variable
free up that memory for other us during the template run or is that
memory no longer usable with the component still existing in memory
but no longer accessible?

Yes, strange and probably useless questions, but...

Thanks

--
Michael Dinowitz

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Re: Development and Testing Environment Recommendations

[Dave Watts]

> In an ideal world, do you think we should put both Test and Development 
> environments on one box (using separate IPs such as
> site-dev.siteUrl and site-test.siteUrl), or create multiple sites using 
> VMware, or utilize two entirely separate servers? And are there
> considerations for each of these scenarios?

In an ideal world, everything is on a separate physical server, with a
redundant backup. But using a single machine or VMs can be suitable.
There are, of course, different considerations for all of these
scenarios. For example, if you use a single machine, what's the
likelihood that a failure in your development environment could cause
a resource-based denial of service in your test environment? Do you
plan to run load tests in your testing environment?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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RE: Phantom Scheduled Tasks

[Bryan S]

So today's work narrows things down even further.

The Cold Fusion Scheduled Task calls Event1.

Event1 constructs a URL and passes it to a .cfm which uses a cflocation to
fire the URL.

The fired URL calls Event2 that starts a report.

I pass an identifier through from the the URL called by the Cold Fusion
Scheduled Task (Event1) all the way through to the URL fired by the
cflocation (Event2).

Five minutes later the exact same URL is fired again. There is not a second
call to Event1. The Cold Fusion Scheduled Task (Event1) does not get called
again.

Nothing happens until both reports are finished and then the process is
repeated.

Bryan




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Re: Development and Testing Environment Recommendations

[Tony Bentley]

Jess,

Have you considered VM? This could solve the problem without needing another 
server. 

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Development and Testing Environment Recommendations

[Jessica Garruto]

We are formalizing new development and testing environments for our ColdFusion 
web sites and I would like to know what recommendations other 
developers/administrators have regarding server configuration and/or best 
practices.

We are currently running multiple ColdFusion 8 sites (~10) on IIS/Windows. Most 
of our sites require SSL. We should probably be able to run both SSL and 
non-SSL versions of the sites on the development environment. We have several 
new 64-bit servers available for these updated environments.

(Additionally, we also develop and administer several Java sites; right now it 
looks like they will most likely live on their own set of servers.) 

In an ideal world, do you think we should put both Test and Development 
environments on one box (using separate IPs such as site-dev.siteUrl and 
site-test.siteUrl), or create multiple sites using VMware, or utilize two 
entirely separate servers? And are there considerations for each of these 
scenarios?

Thanks in advance for your insights... 

~|
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RE: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Jon Sala]

Yes, find it clean to set up a gateway instance and then call 
SendGatewayMessage() for background processing.
Not sure if Matthew's Crystaltech will let him access that.



-Original Message-
From: Ian Skinner [mailto:h...@ilsweb.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:48 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running


On 3/9/2010 11:36 AM, Wil Genovese wrote:
> Another way is to use AJAX.
>
> Wil
>

Yet another way, if you want to go old school - before the days of 
 you can also do a  with a timeout value of 0.

Another new school way that may be relevant, is ColdFusion gateways.
Really depends on what one is actually trying to accomplish.




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Re: Make HomeSite+ Open Source? (WAS: RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?)

[Greg Luce]

I would contribute!
-- 
Greg Luce
Luce Consulting Services, Inc.
www.luceconsulting.net
(863) 273-0289

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Jordan Michaels wrote:

>
> CFEclipse is already a well-maintained and open-source CFML IDE that,
> unlike homesite, is cross-platform.
>
> I personally can't think of much reason or need for another open-source
> IDE - particularly one that needs work in order to be a viable option.
>
> I wouldn't complain if it were open-sourced, but I highly doubt anyone
> would further it's development. Getting developers involved is the
> hardest part of an open-source project IMO. If HomeSite were
> open-sourced, would you contribute to it? Would you pay someone else to
> contribute to it?
>
> Warm regards,
> Jordan Michaels
> Vivio Technologies
> http://www.viviotech.net/
> Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
> Railo Community Distributions
>
>
> Christian N. Abad wrote:
> > Folks:
> >
> > I had two other thoughts on this topic:
> >
> > 1) Will Adobe, or anyone else, be releasing the "ColdFusion 9 Extensions
> for
> > HomeSite+" the way they had for CF MX and CF 8?  (I think not, since
> Adobe
> > has officially ceased development of it per
> > http://www.adobe.com/products/homesite/.)
> >
> > 2) If not, is there someone in the community who would be willing to do
> > this?
> >
> > 3) If not, then is there someone in the community who is interested in
> > developing HomeSite+?  (Since Adobe has officially ceased development,
> > perhaps it could be made and Open Source project?)
> >
> > Okay, so that was three (3) thoughts!  :-)
> >
> > What does everyone think?
> >
> > Thanks, All!
> >
> > Christian N. Abad - President
> >
> > Accessible Computing, Inc.
> > 1210 McLaughlin Drive
> > Charlotte, NC 28212
> > http://www.AccessibleComputing.com 
> >
> > 704.900.1825 (Direct Line)
> > 704.248.6682 (Fax)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ben Alembick [mailto:benalemb...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:58 AM
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?
> >
> >
> > Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
> > (does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often
>  attempted
> > to swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so
> > much more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting
> when
> > i need to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite
> and
> > the circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything
> look
> > like homesite :-))
> >
> > I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone
> > have any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for
> > MURA development).
> >
> > I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any
> ideas
> > there?
> >
> > Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development
> lately
> > of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local
> > intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just
> > don't make em like they used to  :-).
> >
> > Thanks in  advance
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Ian Skinner]

On 3/9/2010 11:36 AM, Wil Genovese wrote:
> Another way is to use AJAX.
>
> Wil
>

Yet another way, if you want to go old school - before the days of 
 you can also do a  with a timeout value of 0.

Another new school way that may be relevant, is ColdFusion gateways.  
Really depends on what one is actually trying to accomplish.


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RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Eric Nicholas Sweeney]

I find it interesting that no one seems to be suggesting DreamWeaver as a
"replacement" for Homesite.

I was a huge Homesite fan - but dropped it about 7 years ago...(Has it been
that long?!) I mainly use DreamWeaver now - and find it great for code
markup and CF Integration. It is very similar to a lot of the ways Homesite
worked... (I think)

I am probably not using it to its full extent - but the Database
connections/RDS Login/component integration, etc -  are pretty nice once you
get it setup - and you can have it auto FTP or do it manually (as I do -
Still use an old copy of Absolute FTP).  Overall code markup is clear - easy
to setup website projects - I like it.

I have started to dabble with the Coldfusion Builder - still very new to me
-  I guess I see myself eventually swapping between those two... But for now
I pretty much live in DreamWeaver.

My Two cents anyway...

- Nick



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Which Version of ColdFusion 9?

[Ian Skinner]

I'm experimenting with using a Virtual Machine (VirtualBox) to do some 
preliminary testing of ColdFusion 9.  At the moment, I have an 
OpenSolaris VM environment setup on a Windows XP host laptop.  So I went 
to download a ColdFusion installer to see what I could do with this, and 
I notice that the only Solaris flavor of ColdFusion is apparently for 
64-bit systems.  I'm pretty sure that the OpenSolaris VM I have is 
configured as a 32-bit system as the laptop is definitely 32-bit, and 
while it maybe possible for later versions of VirtualBox to simulate a 
64-bit environment on a 32-bit host, I am nearly positive that this was 
not enabled on what I currently have.

So, with the hope that I do not need to go back to square one with the 
VM installation and configuration, do I have any viable options to 
install CF on this system?  Is some version either the 64-bit Solaris or 
32-bit Linux or AIX a viable option here?

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RE: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Bobby]

Check out cfthread.

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Smith [mailto:chedders...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:22 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running


I have some code that I would like to run with each page request, but it
might take a while and I'd like to not have to wait for it to finish
running.

So basically, I'd like to initiate a template in Application.cfm, without a
cfinclude.  Is this possible?

This will be on crystaltech, a shared hosting enviroment, so please keep in
mind the tag restrictions.




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Re: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Wil Genovese]

If you are using CF8 or CF9 - I'd looked into what can be done with
cfthread. And I would not put that into the Application.cfm  (should be
using Application.cfc anyways - you can do more with it), that kind of code
should be executed from your controller for every page request.  Spawn the
thread at the beginning of the request then gather the results in at the end
of the request.

Another way is to use AJAX.

Wil

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Matthew Smith  wrote:

>
> I have some code that I would like to run with each page request, but it
> might take a while and I'd like to not have to wait for it to finish
> running.
>
> So basically, I'd like to initiate a template in Application.cfm, without a
> cfinclude.  Is this possible?
>
> This will be on crystaltech, a shared hosting enviroment, so please keep in
> mind the tag restrictions.
>
>
> 

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Re: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Matthew Smith]

cool, I'll check it out.

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Peter Boughton  wrote:

>
> Read up on "threading", which CF implements with the cfthread tag.
>
> 

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Re: calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Peter Boughton]

Read up on "threading", which CF implements with the cfthread tag. 

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Re: Make HomeSite+ Open Source? (WAS: RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?)

[Peter Boughton]

There's little point in making it Open Source.

It might be a nice gesture from Adobe, but it's hard enough finding CF 
developers willing to do Java; finding a Delphi developer willing to support 
HomeSite would be even worse!

For the people that like Homesite, there's nothing wrong with continuing to use 
it, once you don't mind a lack of updates.
(This is assuming the updates are some form of proprietary/binary format; if 
they are text-based then the CF9 stuff yourself!)



> I tried CFECLIPSE and I tried the beta version of
> Adobes CF developer thing.  Both are nice, both are 
> a drain on system resources, slow, and bloated.

Yep, CFEclipse and CFBuilder *are* slow and bloated - because they use the 
Eclipse platform, which is slow and bloated.

It *might* be possible to produce a minimalised/streamlined Eclipse base with 
just the required stuff in - but there are so many other things that CFEclipse 
needs first, and only a limited number of people able to spare a limited amount 
of time to work on improving it.

The great thing is that if people want CFEclipse to be better, they can help to 
make it better!

You do NOT need to know Java to help with CFEclipse - there's plenty of other 
tasks that can be done, and doing those will mean that the Java developers can 
concentrate on the Java tasks, and thus everything improves.

So, if there's things you don't like about CFEclipse (either bugs or feature 
requests), raise them on the issue tracker - problems can't be fixed if they're 
not known!

And, if you want to speed their resolution, pop on to the mailing list ( 
cfeclipse-us...@googlegroups.com ) and see if you can help out - either 
directly working on them, or indirectly (by improving other areas), and 
hopefully it wont be long before we've all got a great IDE! 

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calling a template but not waiting for it to finish running

[Matthew Smith]

I have some code that I would like to run with each page request, but it
might take a while and I'd like to not have to wait for it to finish
running.

So basically, I'd like to initiate a template in Application.cfm, without a
cfinclude.  Is this possible?

This will be on crystaltech, a shared hosting enviroment, so please keep in
mind the tag restrictions.


~|
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Re: Make HomeSite+ Open Source? (WAS: RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?)

[Judah McAuley]

Homesite isn't an IDE really, it is a text editor with some code
insight. If people are looking for an editor (as opposed to an IDE
that does project/asset management, refactoring, etc) I'd suggest you
look into extending one of the various editors out there that already
has some CF support.

Take a look at TextMate (for OS X) and the Windows counterpart,
E-TextEditor. Both are editor oriented and both have pluggable
language bundles including CFML. The CFML support, in my opinion,
isn't bad though it isn't great either.

Personally, I use CFEclipse for all my development and have for a
couple years now and then I use Notepad++ for editing large text files
or when I need a really quick little text change to an arbitrary file.
It did take me awhile to get used to the Eclipse project-oriented
model and to local development. Now that I have, I wouldn't go back.

Also, if you need more file-based access (as opposed to project-based)
in CFEclipse, take a look at the Aptana plugin. It does a pretty good
job of giving you a local file explorer and also integrating FTP into
the work flow.

Judah

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Jordan Michaels  wrote:
>
> CFEclipse is already a well-maintained and open-source CFML IDE that,
> unlike homesite, is cross-platform.
>
> I personally can't think of much reason or need for another open-source
> IDE - particularly one that needs work in order to be a viable option.
>
> I wouldn't complain if it were open-sourced, but I highly doubt anyone
> would further it's development. Getting developers involved is the
> hardest part of an open-source project IMO. If HomeSite were
> open-sourced, would you contribute to it? Would you pay someone else to
> contribute to it?
>
> Warm regards,
> Jordan Michaels
> Vivio Technologies
> http://www.viviotech.net/
> Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
> Railo Community Distributions
>
>
> Christian N. Abad wrote:
>> Folks:
>>
>> I had two other thoughts on this topic:
>>
>> 1) Will Adobe, or anyone else, be releasing the "ColdFusion 9 Extensions for
>> HomeSite+" the way they had for CF MX and CF 8?  (I think not, since Adobe
>> has officially ceased development of it per
>> http://www.adobe.com/products/homesite/.)
>>
>> 2) If not, is there someone in the community who would be willing to do
>> this?
>>
>> 3) If not, then is there someone in the community who is interested in
>> developing HomeSite+?  (Since Adobe has officially ceased development,
>> perhaps it could be made and Open Source project?)
>>
>> Okay, so that was three (3) thoughts!  :-)
>>
>> What does everyone think?
>>
>> Thanks, All!
>>
>> Christian N. Abad - President
>>
>> Accessible Computing, Inc.
>> 1210 McLaughlin Drive
>> Charlotte, NC 28212
>> http://www.AccessibleComputing.com
>>
>> 704.900.1825 (Direct Line)
>> 704.248.6682 (Fax)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Ben Alembick [mailto:benalemb...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:58 AM
>> To: cf-talk
>> Subject: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?
>>
>>
>> Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
>> (does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted
>> to swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so
>> much more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when
>> i need to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and
>> the circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look
>> like homesite :-))
>>
>> I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone
>> have any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for
>> MURA development).
>>
>> I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas
>> there?
>>
>> Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately
>> of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local
>> intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just
>> don't make em like they used to  :-).
>>
>> Thanks in  advance
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> 

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RE: Make HomeSite+ Open Source? (WAS: RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?)

[Justin Scott]

> 1) Will Adobe, or anyone else, be releasing the
> "ColdFusion 9 Extensions for HomeSite+" the way
> they had for CF MX and CF 8?  (I think not, since
> Adobe has officially ceased development of it per
> http://www.adobe.com/products/homesite/.)

I highly doubt Adobe has any plans to do anything with HomeSite whether it's
releasing extentions for it or releasing the code to developers who want to
keep it alive.  It would be counter-intuitive to do either from a business
standpoint.  They would rather everyone forget about HomeSite and move to
CFBuilder.  As much as I would like to see continued development on HomeSite
I am just counting the days until I need to move to something else.

As for continued development, I would just like to see a compile that plays
well out of the box with Windows 7 and updated tag/function libraries.  It
already has all of the features I need.  I'm still humming along with it but
I know that eventually it will have to be replaced.  I have high hopes for
CFBuilder, but they still have a lot of issues to work out before I'll
consider using it full time.


-Justin



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Re: Make HomeSite+ Open Source? (WAS: RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?)

[Jordan Michaels]

CFEclipse is already a well-maintained and open-source CFML IDE that, 
unlike homesite, is cross-platform.

I personally can't think of much reason or need for another open-source 
IDE - particularly one that needs work in order to be a viable option.

I wouldn't complain if it were open-sourced, but I highly doubt anyone 
would further it's development. Getting developers involved is the 
hardest part of an open-source project IMO. If HomeSite were 
open-sourced, would you contribute to it? Would you pay someone else to 
contribute to it?

Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Open BlueDragon Steering Committee
Railo Community Distributions


Christian N. Abad wrote:
> Folks:
> 
> I had two other thoughts on this topic:
> 
> 1) Will Adobe, or anyone else, be releasing the "ColdFusion 9 Extensions for
> HomeSite+" the way they had for CF MX and CF 8?  (I think not, since Adobe
> has officially ceased development of it per
> http://www.adobe.com/products/homesite/.)
> 
> 2) If not, is there someone in the community who would be willing to do
> this?
> 
> 3) If not, then is there someone in the community who is interested in
> developing HomeSite+?  (Since Adobe has officially ceased development,
> perhaps it could be made and Open Source project?)
> 
> Okay, so that was three (3) thoughts!  :-)
> 
> What does everyone think?
> 
> Thanks, All!
> 
> Christian N. Abad - President
> 
> Accessible Computing, Inc.
> 1210 McLaughlin Drive
> Charlotte, NC 28212
> http://www.AccessibleComputing.com
>  
> 704.900.1825 (Direct Line)
> 704.248.6682 (Fax)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Alembick [mailto:benalemb...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:58 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?
> 
> 
> Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
> (does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted
> to swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so
> much more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when
> i need to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and
> the circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look
> like homesite :-))
> 
> I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone
> have any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for
> MURA development).
> 
> I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas
> there?
> 
> Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately
> of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local
> intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just
> don't make em like they used to  :-).
> 
> Thanks in  advance
> 
> Ben 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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RE: Make HomeSite+ Open Source? (WAS: RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?)

[Robert Harrison]

I still use HOMESITE. I tried CFECLIPSE and I tried the beta version of
Adobes CF developer thing.  Both are nice, both are a drain on system
resources, slow, and bloated. Yes there are some nice features, but there is
something to be said for just have a nice straight up, low burden code
editing tool with insight, and a good search/replace routine.  And yes, I
use Dreamweaver too... but it's also slow and bloated.


Robert B. Harrison
Director of Interactive Services
Austin & Williams
125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 
Hauppauge NY 11788
P : 631.231.6600 Ext. 119 
F : 631.434.7022
http://www.austin-williams.com 

Great advertising can't be either/or.  It must be &.

Plug in to our blog: A&W Unplugged
http://www.austin-williams.com/unplugged

 

__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
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Make HomeSite+ Open Source? (WAS: RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?)

[Christian N. Abad]

Folks:

I had two other thoughts on this topic:

1) Will Adobe, or anyone else, be releasing the "ColdFusion 9 Extensions for
HomeSite+" the way they had for CF MX and CF 8?  (I think not, since Adobe
has officially ceased development of it per
http://www.adobe.com/products/homesite/.)

2) If not, is there someone in the community who would be willing to do
this?

3) If not, then is there someone in the community who is interested in
developing HomeSite+?  (Since Adobe has officially ceased development,
perhaps it could be made and Open Source project?)

Okay, so that was three (3) thoughts!  :-)

What does everyone think?

Thanks, All!

Christian N. Abad - President

Accessible Computing, Inc.
1210 McLaughlin Drive
Charlotte, NC 28212
http://www.AccessibleComputing.com
 
704.900.1825 (Direct Line)
704.248.6682 (Fax)

-Original Message-
From: Ben Alembick [mailto:benalemb...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:58 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?


Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
(does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted
to swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so
much more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when
i need to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and
the circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look
like homesite :-))

I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone
have any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for
MURA development).

I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas
there?

Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately
of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local
intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just
don't make em like they used to  :-).

Thanks in  advance

Ben 



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RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Christian N. Abad]

Ben:

I'm in the same boat as you!  (...Seriously...)

I've been using HomeSite+ (HS+) for YEARS, since I started working with CF
4.52!  I have tried repeatedly to make the transition to Aptana / CFEclipse
and now CFBuilder countless times, only to come back running to HS+.  It
just works and it works FAST!  It's PERFECT for me...

My biggest issues with moving away from HS+ is that the functionality that I
use the most, like "Select Full Tag" and "Edit Tag" don't work nearly as
well - or at all - in the aforementioned other editors.  It's plain and
simple; I can't work efficiently without this functionality.

However, I've been actively participating with the CFEclipse Team via their
Google Group and they have been listening to my feedback and even
incorporating my needs into their nightly builds.  In other words, they are
listening and actually implementing what I need.  We're not 100% there yet,
but we're getting closer with each nightly build.  With any patience
diligence, I will be able to move to CFEclipse within a month or two...

So, my advice to you is to join their Google Group and present your needs to
the CFEclipse Team, and who knows - maybe they will build you the tool that
you need.  http://groups.google.com/group/cfeclipse-users

Just my $.02!

Good Luck!

Christian N. Abad - President

Accessible Computing, Inc.
1210 McLaughlin Drive
Charlotte, NC 28212
http://www.AccessibleComputing.com
 
704.900.1825 (Direct Line)
704.248.6682 (Fax)

-Original Message-
From: Ben Alembick [mailto:benalemb...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:58 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?


Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
(does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted
to swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so
much more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when
i need to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and
the circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look
like homesite :-))

I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone
have any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for
MURA development).

I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas
there?

Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately
of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local
intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just
don't make em like they used to  :-).

Thanks in  advance

Ben 



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Re: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Tony Bentley]

I found it best to transition on a new project that isn't too deadline specific 
so you aren't pressured to take shortcuts. I am currently still using 
Dreamweaver with some projects because of the ease to setup a site with 3 
server environments and FTP. Eclipse is a little too high end sometimes and I 
still don't know how to do everything I can do in DW. Start out small and don't 
expect to give up HS right away because when you are chugging and need to move 
past something you know you can do in HS, it will still be there for you. 

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Re: Phantom Scheduled Tasks

[Dorioo]

You could dynamically name the lock to use the same name (only one
report runs at once) or use a unique name (allow multiples to run).
Still, mitigation, not a fix.

I think the lack of responses is because this may be tightly coupled
to your implementation and is not general enough for constructive
responses. I don't think you're doing anything wrong but it may be
that you're problem is too specific to you. Maybe someone will have a
Eureka moment. :)

- Gabriel

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Bryan S  wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot for the reply. I simplified my explanation to get right to the
> point. There are times when I want multiple reports to run at once. Event1
> actually checks if a large memory hogging report is running. If not it fires
> Event2 even if another report is running.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dorioo [mailto:dor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:41 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Phantom Scheduled Tasks
>
>
> Can't speak to the cause from afar. But to prevent reports from
> running concurrently, maybe you can put a named CFLOCK around all of
> the report generation events. If they all shared the same name, only
> one would ever have the lock and, if a second started to run while the
> first was running, it would simply time out and not do anything.
> Something like this post:
>
> http://www.bennadel.com/blog/1844-Making-Sure-Scheduled-Tasks-Don-t-Overlap-
> In-ColdFusion.htm
>
> It's not a fix but it would mitigate multiple report events running
> concurrently.
>
> - Gabriel
>
>
> 

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RE: Phantom Scheduled Tasks

[Bryan S]

Thanks a lot for the reply. I simplified my explanation to get right to the
point. There are times when I want multiple reports to run at once. Event1
actually checks if a large memory hogging report is running. If not it fires
Event2 even if another report is running.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: Dorioo [mailto:dor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:41 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Phantom Scheduled Tasks


Can't speak to the cause from afar. But to prevent reports from
running concurrently, maybe you can put a named CFLOCK around all of
the report generation events. If they all shared the same name, only
one would ever have the lock and, if a second started to run while the
first was running, it would simply time out and not do anything.
Something like this post:

http://www.bennadel.com/blog/1844-Making-Sure-Scheduled-Tasks-Don-t-Overlap-
In-ColdFusion.htm

It's not a fix but it would mitigate multiple report events running
concurrently.

- Gabriel


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Re: iText and CF issues

[Arden Harrell]

Thanks for replying.

We are currently running this against a CF7 environment.

I have tried a variety of parameters.
1. flags, setflags, clrflags (using PdfAnnotation constants)
2. fflags, setfflags, clrfflags (using PdfFormField constants)

No change occurs to the PDF document.

I should mention that I added a couple extra lines after "setFieldProperty" 
(even though the code above doesn't show it).
  bRet = pdfForm.regenerateField( JavaCast("string", "text1") );
  WriteOutput("regenerateField of text1 - bRet: #bRet#");

I noticed this in a few other snippets as well as the iText book examples.
Even though "bRet" return "YES".  It didn't seem to make a difference in making 
a PDF form field "Read Only". 

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Re: Stack overflow in self nested custom tag

[Dave Watts]

> I'm using CF7.02 and I'm trying to create a custom tag that will be
> self nested, like:-
>
>     
>          
>               
>               
>          
>     
>
> And in , I'm trying to get the data of the parent tag and
> assigning to a variable in the current tags state:-
>
>     
>
> But the assignment creates a stack overflow and I don't understand why?

While Barney's advice is good, and solves your immediate problem, you
may want to consider a different approach for nested custom tags.

Instead of having the processing done in the child tags, you can
simply pass the data from those tags back to the parent tag during its
end execution mode, using the CFASSOCIATE tag. This will let you do
things that are a bit harder to do in the nested tag itself.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our traini

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Re: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Jason Fisher]

I still use HomeSite more than not, but I'm using CFBuilder more and more for 
side work (at home at night).  Still not used to the lag ... HomeSite is just 
so dang fast, while CFB waits forever to popup code assistance within a tag and 
it often fails to close a tag, resulting in lots and lots of extra typing.  I 
also haven't yet set up all my snippets, so that will be a big one in making 
CFB work for me, but I agree that it's not a simple transition. 

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RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Justin Scott]

> Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion
> development now for years (does anyone else still
> use it? id be interested),

I am still using HomeSite+ here for development.  It does a great job, it's
fast, and it just works, but I'm in the same boat as you are.  It's getting
farther behind with each release of ColdFusion, so eventually I'll have to
move on to another tool.  I haven't found another editor that I've been as
happy with as of yet.

Homesite+ is like flying a Cessna 172.  You go out to the ramp, do some
checks, and take off.  It gets you where you want to go as long as you're ok
with its limitations.  Everything else seems like a Boeing 747 in
comparison.  Slow, clunky, tries to do all the heavy lifting on its own,
requires lots of time to get up to speed working with it, etc.


-Justin



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Re: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Casey Dougall]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Ben Alembick  wrote:

>
> Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
> (does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted
> to swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so
> much more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when
> i need to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and
> the circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look
> like homesite :-))
>
> I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone
> have any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for
> MURA development).
>
> I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas
>  there?
>
> Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development
> lately of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local
> intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just
> don't make em like they used to  :-).
>
> Thanks in  advance
>
> Ben
>
>

Honestly, you just have to suck it up and stop using Homesite if you want to
try something else. I'd even go as far as uninstalling homesite so you don't
get tempted to use it.


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RE: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Andy Matthews]

You're going to have the same trouble when moving to y from x in ANY field,
be it software, or applications, or even using a different knife when
cooking. You just have to believe that the new thing will eventually be
better than the old thing. If you don't think that it will improve your
development, then why bother...seriously. If Homesite works for you, and
your development needs, then why switch?


andy 

-Original Message-
From: Ben Alembick [mailto:benalemb...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:58 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?


Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
(does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted
to swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so
much more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when
i need to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and
the circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look
like homesite :-))

I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone
have any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for
MURA development).

I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas
there?

Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately
of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local
intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just
don't make em like they used to  :-).

Thanks in  advance

Ben 



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Re: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Wil Genovese]

I still have CFStudio installed and I use it as a glorified text editor or
scratch pad on occasion.  Usually to help me look at code from 'View Source'
and such.

I've fully switched to Eclipse based for the past two years.  Yes, there is
a steep learning curve, but not as steep as it was a few years ago.  Eclipse
itself has matured a lot to make installing and updating plug-ins really
easy.  CFEclipse has grown a lot in the past two years.  With the right set
of plug-ins and a good set of snippets I can code very fast.

Even CFBuilder is getting better.  I've been using CFBuilder since the last
CF.Objective() conference.  It's getting better. We are still beating up the
Adobe Developers on bugs and performance so hopefully by the time it's done
its worth the yet to be announced price tag.

I've written a blog post or two on getting some of the basics setup and
running with CFBuilder.  I know many others have written the same for
getting started with CFEclipse.

In a previous post Mike Chabot mentions that beta testing the first versions
of HomeSite may have been a little rough also. Well, I know they were as I
was alpha and beta testing them back when Nick Bradbury was the owner of
HomeSite and then when Allaire bought HomeSite and hired Nick. The editor
went though many many many changes and upheavals and flame wars on forums.
It was fun and look at what came of it. One of the best, most widely
adopted, longest lasting web application development products ever made.

The same is happening with CFBuilder.

Wil Genovese
blog: http:/www.trunkful.com




On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Cameron Childress wrote:

>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Ben Alembick 
> wrote:
> > Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
> > (does anyone else still use it? id be interested),
>
> As others have pointed out, plenty of people still use it.
>
> > I also spend ages trying to  make everything look like homesite :-))
>
> I think this may be the root of your problem switching.  You are
> trying to change the software to be the same as Homesite when it
> isn't.  Sometimes you have to adapt to the software rather then
> adapting the software to you.
>
> Having said that, there is nothing wrong with continuing to use
> Homesite if you like it.
>
> -Cameron
>
> --
> Cameron Childress
> Sumo Consulting Inc
> http://www.sumoc.com
> ---
> cell:  678.637.5072
> aim:   cameroncf
> email: camer...@gmail.c
>
> 

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RE: Phantom Scheduled Tasks

[Bryan S]

I have a lot of new information now but I'd really appreciate some help on
this because I still have the problem.

 

I've never had much luck getting response to my questions on this forum. If
I am doing something wrong please let me know.

 

I'm going to *try* to keep this as simple as possible. I am able to simplify
it because of all the testing I have done in the last few weeks.

 

I have a Cold Fusion Scheduled Task the purpose of which is to start a
report if no other report is running at that time.

 

The scheduled task fires Event1 which checks if  a report is running and if
there is no report running it fires Event2 which starts a report. I have
separate logging in Event1 and Event2 so I can tell when each one fires.

 

Event1 finds no report running and fires Event2 which starts ReportA. One
minute later it checks and finds ReportA running so it does not fire Event2.
This continues until five minutes after ReportA started.

 

Five minutes after ReportA starts my logging confirms that Event1 fires and
correctly determines that ReportA is not running and therefore does not call
Event2. HOWEVER, my logging also indicates that Event2 does get fired and as
a result ReportB is started. This results in an undesirable circumstance
because these are very large reports and when run concurrently they use up
all available memory on the server.

 

To debug this problem I turned off all Scheduled Tasks except 1 and found
that both calls to Event2 are coming from the original call to Event1.

 

If I turn off all Scheduled Tasks no reports ever get fired so it can not be
a Cold Fusion Scheduled Task call on another server somewhere.

 

The really odd thing is that once two reports are running no other reports
start until both reports finish. Once both reports finish the cycle repeats.
A report starts, then five minutes later another one starts. Never four
minutes or six minutes, always five.

 

I assure you I did not code anything that does this. I am checking if a
report is running but not when it started.

 

To further add to the puzzle if I manually run the event called by the Cold
Fusion Scheduled Task this problem does not occur. It then correctly waits
until ReportA finishes before starting ReportB. Nothing happens at the five
minute mark.

 

Any thoughts on what could be happening would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Bryan

 

From: Bryan S [mailto:bryansgroup...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:11 PM
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Subject: Phantom Scheduled Tasks

 

I have a scheduled task that starts a report every 12 minutes. Sometimes a
report is started 5 minutes after the scheduled report starts. There is no
evidence anywhere of the scheduled task being fired. There is no manual
process starting the report.

I have discovered long ago that modifying a scheduled task while it is
running creates a phantom hidden task that can only be exorcised by
rebooting the server.

To allow reconfiguration of the task without worrying about this problem I
wrote a process that can be configured. The scheduled task calls the process
and acts according to its configuration.

The scheduled task in question is set to fire a report process every twelve
minutes. The process of the report can be followed in an application log.
The desired report starts and is logged. At seemingly random times a report
starts five minutes later. It is always five minutes never four or six etc.

Again, there is no manual process starting this. There is no evidence of the
scheduled task firing. There is no loop in the application that could start
multiple reports with one url firing. 

What could be starting the report.



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Development Apps- Does anyone use homesite still?

[Ben Alembick]

Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years (does 
anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted to swap to 
eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so much more time 
trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when i need to get some 
work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and the circle begins 
again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look like homesite :-))

I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone have 
any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for MURA 
development).

I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas  
there?

Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately of 
ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local intranet. So 
Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just don't make em like 
they used to  :-).

Thanks in  advance

Ben 

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Re: Phantom Scheduled Tasks

[Dorioo]

Can't speak to the cause from afar. But to prevent reports from
running concurrently, maybe you can put a named CFLOCK around all of
the report generation events. If they all shared the same name, only
one would ever have the lock and, if a second started to run while the
first was running, it would simply time out and not do anything.
Something like this post:

http://www.bennadel.com/blog/1844-Making-Sure-Scheduled-Tasks-Don-t-Overlap-In-ColdFusion.htm

It's not a fix but it would mitigate multiple report events running
concurrently.

- Gabriel

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Bryan S  wrote:
>
> I have a lot of new information now but I'd really appreciate some help on
> this because I still have the problem.
>
>
>
> I've never had much luck getting response to my questions on this forum. If
> I am doing something wrong please let me know.
>
>
>
> I'm going to *try* to keep this as simple as possible. I am able to simplify
> it because of all the testing I have done in the last few weeks.
>
>
>
> I have a Cold Fusion Scheduled Task the purpose of which is to start a
> report if no other report is running at that time.
>
>
>
> The scheduled task fires Event1 which checks if  a report is running and if
> there is no report running it fires Event2 which starts a report. I have
> separate logging in Event1 and Event2 so I can tell when each one fires.
>
>
>
> Event1 finds no report running and fires Event2 which starts ReportA. One
> minute later it checks and finds ReportA running so it does not fire Event2.
> This continues until five minutes after ReportA started.
>
>
>
> Five minutes after ReportA starts my logging confirms that Event1 fires and
> correctly determines that ReportA is not running and therefore does not call
> Event2. HOWEVER, my logging also indicates that Event2 does get fired and as
> a result ReportB is started. This results in an undesirable circumstance
> because these are very large reports and when run concurrently they use up
> all available memory on the server.
>
>
>
> To debug this problem I turned off all Scheduled Tasks except 1 and found
> that both calls to Event2 are coming from the original call to Event1.
>
>
>
> If I turn off all Scheduled Tasks no reports ever get fired so it can not be
> a Cold Fusion Scheduled Task call on another server somewhere.
>
>
>
> The really odd thing is that once two reports are running no other reports
> start until both reports finish. Once both reports finish the cycle repeats.
> A report starts, then five minutes later another one starts. Never four
> minutes or six minutes, always five.
>
>
>
> I assure you I did not code anything that does this. I am checking if a
> report is running but not when it started.
>
>
>
> To further add to the puzzle if I manually run the event called by the Cold
> Fusion Scheduled Task this problem does not occur. It then correctly waits
> until ReportA finishes before starting ReportB. Nothing happens at the five
> minute mark.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on what could be happening would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
> From: Bryan S [mailto:bryansgroup...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:11 PM
> To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
> Subject: Phantom Scheduled Tasks
>
>
>
> I have a scheduled task that starts a report every 12 minutes. Sometimes a
> report is started 5 minutes after the scheduled report starts. There is no
> evidence anywhere of the scheduled task being fired. There is no manual
> process starting the report.
>
> I have discovered long ago that modifying a scheduled task while it is
> running creates a phantom hidden task that can only be exorcised by
> rebooting the server.
>
> To allow reconfiguration of the task without worrying about this problem I
> wrote a process that can be configured. The scheduled task calls the process
> and acts according to its configuration.
>
> The scheduled task in question is set to fire a report process every twelve
> minutes. The process of the report can be followed in an application log.
> The desired report starts and is logged. At seemingly random times a report
> starts five minutes later. It is always five minutes never four or six etc.
>
> Again, there is no manual process starting this. There is no evidence of the
> scheduled task firing. There is no loop in the application that could start
> multiple reports with one url firing.
>
> What could be starting the report.
>
>
>
> 

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Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Ben Alembick]

Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years (does 
anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted to swap to 
eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so much more time 
trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when i need to get some 
work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and the circle begins 
again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look like homesite :-))

I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone have 
any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for MURA 
development).

I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas  
there?

Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately of 
ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local intranet. So 
Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just don't make em like 
they used to  :-).

Thanks in  advance

Ben 

~|
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Re: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Mike Chabot]

Plenty of people still use HomeSite. It is a great program. The
intended successor to HomeSite is Adobe ColdFusion Builder, which
isn't a finished product yet. If you have had frustration with
cfbuilder, maybe stick with HomeSite until cfbuilder becomes a more
mature product. Beta testing the first version of a new product can be
a bit rough. The first beta version of HomeSite probably wasn't all
that great to work with either.

-Mike Chabot

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Ben Alembick  wrote:
>
> Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years 
> (does anyone else still use it? id be interested), i have often  attempted to 
> swap to eclipse or (more lately) cfbuilder but i find that i  spend so much 
> more time trying to get used to the apps that i end up  reverting when i need 
> to get some work done quickly, then im hooked back  on homesite and the 
> circle begins again. (I also spend ages trying to  make everything look like 
> homesite :-))
>
> I really would like to  change to something more up to date, does anyone have 
> any suggestions /  tips on how and what i should use (especially for MURA 
> development).
>
> I  also use a mac which i flip between dreamweaver and cfbuilder any ideas  
> there?
>
> Also and please nobody scream, but i do a lot of my live  development lately 
> of ftp (or sometimes RDS) - my dev work is mainly for my works local 
> intranet. So Homesites FTP is awesome compared to modern  apps (they just 
> don't make em like they used to  :-).
>
> Thanks in  advance
>
> Ben
>
> 

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Re: Development Apps - Does anyone use homesite still?

[Cameron Childress]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Ben Alembick  wrote:
> Hi, Ive been using homesite for my coldfusion development now for  years
> (does anyone else still use it? id be interested),

As others have pointed out, plenty of people still use it.

> I also spend ages trying to  make everything look like homesite :-))

I think this may be the root of your problem switching.  You are
trying to change the software to be the same as Homesite when it
isn't.  Sometimes you have to adapt to the software rather then
adapting the software to you.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with continuing to use
Homesite if you like it.

-Cameron

-- 
Cameron Childress
Sumo Consulting Inc
http://www.sumoc.com
---
cell:  678.637.5072
aim:   cameroncf
email: camer...@gmail.c

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