Re: CF9 Standard vs Enterprise Performance

[Matt Quackenbush]

Assuming you are only going to run a single instance, I would not expect to
see a performance difference between Standard and Enterprise.  Of course, if
you need multiple instances (on the same server), then Enterprise is a
requirement.  So, basically speaking, unless you need some of the
Enterprise-only features, then Standard will suit your needs.


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Re: CF9 Standard vs Enterprise Performance

[Dave Watts]

> Is there any big disparity in performance between CF9 Enterprise and Standard 
> (running on windows)?

No, a single instance of Enterprise will perform the same as Standard.
But Enterprise does allow you to install multiple instances, which may
give you better overall performance (primarily, some isolation and
better memory allocation).

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
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CF9 Standard vs Enterprise Performance

[Michael David]

Hi to all.

Is there any big disparity in performance between CF9 Enterprise and Standard 
(running on windows)?  

I have looked at Adobe's comparison matrix and it seems that those items listed 
as single request on standard will not hamper this particular site. And since I 
am the only user, I can do without the sandbox.  So, performance is really the 
question, unless I am missing something here.

The site that would run on it gets about 40K page loads per day.
-- 
Cheers!
Michael David 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[denstar]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Michael Grant wrote:
>
> I truly fear it may be a day late and a dollar short.

I think it's the right time, at the right price.

OpenBD is also quite nice.  =)

With viable open source solutions, the idea that we, as developers,
are responsible for growing adoption, is finally true.

There are no excuses now.  At least not for us devs.

If you're paying for a license, sure, ladle some of that
responsibility on.  Though I'm not trying to imply there's a lack of
effort from Adobe.

Honestly... hell, I've been doing it for like, I dunno, 12+ years at
least, and I never really "saw" CFML "out there", regardless of who
was at the helm.

Making something popular might not be as easy as it seems.  And isn't
necessarily a good thing-- what's that Yogi quote? "Nobody goes there
anymore because it's too crowded."

I think MySpace was the most publicized I'd ever seen CF, and that
didn't end well, though no fault of the language.

The internet is a hell of a lot tamer than it was 20 years ago, but
it's still pretty damn wild.  Freaking *oodles* of the latest high
dollar (in worth), high profile sites/applications have come about not
because of the language used (or marketing of said language), but
because of like, one or two dudes or chicks with an idea.

CFML is *perfect* for such things.

And again, we didn't have a viable open source solution until the last
couple years, if that.  I note this because it seems like most, if not
all, of the recent *madly* successful web applications leverage open
source languages.

So... I guess I'm saying that time might be a localized phenomena.  =)

The sky is the limit, IMO.  We have not yet begunned to fight.  Sally
forth, and multiply!

:Den

-- 
All of my misfortunes come from having thought too well of my fellows.
Jean Jacques Rousseau

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Dave Watts]

> > This bodes well in that as long as it is profitable they won't kill it
> > entirely, but it's certainly no way to grow the product.
>
> Oh come on! After the huge list of enhancements added in both ACF8 and
> ACF9? And creating a dedicated IDE for CFML development? And a roadmap
> containing updated versions of both ACF ("X") and CFBuilder (plans for
> 2.0 and 3.0)? You really believe they're not "grow[ing] the product"
> with all of those advances and investment and effort??

Yeah, I don't really get this either. Adobe's clearly pouring tons of
effort into improving the product, even cannibalizing features from
other products. But if there's one thing that's always been true of
the CF user base, it's always had its fair share of vocal critics of
how CF is being managed, marketed, etc. I've been working with CF
since version 1, and this has always been the way things are.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: Open source - No Mortgage

[Dave Watts]

> I suppose that it is possible to make some money around the "edges" of
> these technologies, but, I have this vision of an army of "geeks"
> working on these open source projects while they live in the garage of
> their parents house ...

Maybe, if their parents happen to be IBM and Google.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
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instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: Open source - No Mortgage

[Mike Chabot]

Many, if not most, of the successful established open source projects have
large corporate, governmental, or educational backers that pay the
contributors to these projects (aka, their employees) very well. I have
gotten paid for all the open source projects I have worked on.

-Mike Chabot

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Rick Colman  wrote:

>
> I guess I am "old school" but I have car payments, a mortgage, etc. etc.
> All of this open source/freeware stuff leaves me a little mystified.
>
> I suppose that it is possible to make some money around the "edges" of
> these technologies, but, I have this vision of an army of "geeks"
> working on these open source projects while they live in the garage of
> their parents house ...
>
> Rick.
>


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Re: Dynamically output data

[Azadi Saryev]

something like this:


SELECT t1.wkid, t1.name, t2.title
FROM Table1 t1 LEFT JOIN Table2 t2 ON t1.wkid = t2.wkid
ORDER BY wkid, title


now output using GROUP attribute of  tag and nested :

WKID: #wkid#
Name: #name#
Title:

   #title#



Azadi

On 14/01/2011 09:15 , Frank Liu wrote:
> Hello
> I am new to coldfusion. Please help
>
> In Table1, I have something like this:
>
> WKID Name
> 1002 High School
>
> In Table2, I have something like this:
> WKIDTitle
> 1002Math Tecaher
> 1002Science Teacher
> 1002English Teacher
> (more)  (more)
>
> I need output to be like this:
>
> WKID:  1002
> Name:  High School
> Title:
> Math Teacher
> Science Teacher
> English Teacher
>  (more)
>
> I have problem with output table2.
> Thank you.
>
> 

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Re: Open source - No Mortgage

[Mark Mandel]

I also really like the RSA Animate of Daniel Pink's talk on What Motivates
Us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

Mark

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Rick Colman  wrote:
> > I guess I am "old school" but I have car payments, a mortgage, etc. etc.
> > All of this open source/freeware stuff leaves me a little mystified.
>
> I can highly recommend The Cathedral & the Bazaar:
>
> http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596001087
>
> It's a series of essays that examine the economics, motivations and
> unexpected success that surrounds the open source community.
>
> If you don't want to buy it, you can get most of it for free (of
> course!) online:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
> --
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

P.S. I don't have a hate on for Adobe, even though it sounds like it. I just
want them to better justify my choice of staying with CF for so long.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:

> I'm not sure I'm understanding. Since I didn't mention Macromedia or
> Allaire before, I'm not allowed to mention them now? Even though it's a
> factor in my opinion about why I think Adobe isn't doing enough?
>
> This isn't a debate class. It's a forum. And I'm a long term CF advocate
> who thinks the current owner of CF is doing it wrong. That should be worth
> something more than a flimsy response that I didn't stay on-message.
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote:
>
>>
>> I too have been around since v4 (or was it 3?  I don't remember), but that
>> is irrelevant.  This is the first time (in this thread anyways) that you
>> have even mentioned Allaire or Macromedia, let alone compared them to
>> Adobe.  All of your posts are railing against Adobe for not "doing their
>> part" to grow the CF community to the size of the PHP, Ruby, etc.
>> communities.  And that is definitely comparing apples to oranges.
>>
>> If that was not your intended comparison, I respectfully suggest you write
>> a
>> clear and concise post detailing your comparison between Allaire,
>> Macromedia, and Adobe so that we can all understand that you're doing an
>> apples-to-apples comparison.  :-)
>>
>>
>> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

>
> You really believe they're not "grow[ing] the product" with all of those
> advances and investment and effort??
>

I know for me the issue isn't that they aren't growing the product. The
product just keeps getting better. It's that they aren't growing the user
base enough.


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Re: Open source - No Mortgage

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Rick Colman  wrote:
> I guess I am "old school" but I have car payments, a mortgage, etc. etc.
> All of this open source/freeware stuff leaves me a little mystified.

I can highly recommend The Cathedral & the Bazaar:

http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596001087

It's a series of essays that examine the economics, motivations and
unexpected success that surrounds the open source community.

If you don't want to buy it, you can get most of it for free (of
course!) online:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

I'm not sure I'm understanding. Since I didn't mention Macromedia or Allaire
before, I'm not allowed to mention them now? Even though it's a factor in my
opinion about why I think Adobe isn't doing enough?

This isn't a debate class. It's a forum. And I'm a long term CF advocate who
thinks the current owner of CF is doing it wrong. That should be worth
something more than a flimsy response that I didn't stay on-message.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote:

>
> I too have been around since v4 (or was it 3?  I don't remember), but that
> is irrelevant.  This is the first time (in this thread anyways) that you
> have even mentioned Allaire or Macromedia, let alone compared them to
> Adobe.  All of your posts are railing against Adobe for not "doing their
> part" to grow the CF community to the size of the PHP, Ruby, etc.
> communities.  And that is definitely comparing apples to oranges.
>
> If that was not your intended comparison, I respectfully suggest you write
> a
> clear and concise post detailing your comparison between Allaire,
> Macromedia, and Adobe so that we can all understand that you're doing an
> apples-to-apples comparison.  :-)
>
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Josh Nathanson  wrote:
> This bodes well in that as long as it is profitable they won't kill it
> entirely, but it's certainly no way to grow the product.

Oh come on! After the huge list of enhancements added in both ACF8 and
ACF9? And creating a dedicated IDE for CFML development? And a roadmap
containing updated versions of both ACF ("X") and CFBuilder (plans for
2.0 and 3.0)? You really believe they're not "grow[ing] the product"
with all of those advances and investment and effort??
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Wil Genovese  wrote:
> I would also argue that price and the lack of ANY school, college, etc 
> exposing students to ColdFusion is also a big part of this.

I'll argue against this being an issue (as I've argued against it
several times in the past): most of the people I know doing software
for a living are not using the technology they learned at school /
college. Many of them didn't learn any technology at school / college
but here they are writing code now.

> But I think Adobe NEEDS to get into schools at all levels and push ColdFusion 
> very hard. Yes, I know the educational license is available.

And there's the full curriculum freely available too.

> IMHO one reason why some companies are moving away from ColdFusion is due to 
> the relatively small number of CF programmers.

Yet some companies are moving from, say, Java to other languages with
far smaller communities than CF (Clojure, Scala). I think Groovy's
community is only about the same size as CF's and Ruby is only twice
that - yet companies are moving to those languages. I suspect
companies complaining about the lack of good CF programmers just think
the grass will be greener elsewhere. the reality is that finding good
developers is hard in almost any technology (although in the niche,
leading edge languages, the bar tends to be much higher so quality is
generally better, even if the numbers are even worse).

> Plus I think we cost more? I'm not sure about this, but all the PHP jobs I 
> saw this past year paid poorly.

True. PHP jobs in general pay much less than CF jobs. I'll posit that
Clojure, Scala, Groovy and Ruby jobs all pay a lot more than PHP too
(and probably more than CF jobs for the most part?).

> To me, the growth and future of ColdFusion depends on the community as well 
> as Adobe.

Yes. I'm not saying Adobe is absolved from responsibility here - I'm
just pushing back on people who seem to think it's entirely Adobe's
responsibility and that the community should be able to just sit back
and enjoy financial success because of Adobe "doing everything".

> I'd rather have a ColdFusion language that was a bit more difficult to learn 
> so that real programmers programmed CF. I'm not being elitist or arrogant, 
> I'm just expressing my opinion that has been based on what I have seen.

I've been flamed for making similar comments :)

> It's up to everyone to step up and promote ColdFusion.

Amen.
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Gerald Guido]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
>> Didn't you read what I said?

Loosely translated, you said that the continued success of a commercial
product is the responsibility of the consumer to advocate it's use to other
consumers and not the company that produced the product.

Flame on Garth,
G!

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:
> > If the success of CF isn't Adobe's responsibility then who's is it?
>
> Didn't you read what I said?
>
> >> Remember: the success of PHP, Ruby and other languages has come about
> >> _without_ a company spending money on marketing. Those languages have
> >> become popular because their users - their communities - have
> >> evangelized and created tutorials and books and great free open source
> >> software and so on. You can't lay the fault at Adobe's door...
>
> Community promotion made PHP, Ruby et al popular.
>
> Sean
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Josh Nathanson]

My guess is that Adobe makes a small but reliable profit with ColdFusion,
and therefore has very little incentive to spend money marketing it.  They
are probably quite happy collecting license fees and paying a few devs to
crank out new versions.

This bodes well in that as long as it is profitable they won't kill it
entirely, but it's certainly no way to grow the product.

-- Josh

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:

>
> No. I'm comparing little apples (Allaire) to bigger apples (Macromedia) to
> enormous apples (Adobe).
>
> I've been using CF for many many years. I've done a lot to spread the word
> in my neck of the woods. I've been laughed at for years for my choice of
> go-to languages. I've talked until I'm blue in the face defending CF
> against
> all the uninformed opinions and pre-conceived notions. I've had to convince
> clients why CF is a good choice. I've fought the good fight since v4. And I
> have noticed, as I'm sure others have, that since Adobe purchased
> Macromedia
> CF seems to be treated like the ugly cousin that came with Flash.
>
> It's about optics. And since Adobe got CF it is virtually invisible in the
> dev world outside of it's community. It's can't be all left up to the user
> base to make the product successful. Where we're at right now with CF is as
> far as the community can take it.
>
> That's what I think anyway. For whatever that's worth.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Matt Quackenbush  >wrote:
>
> >
> > Hmm.  Isn't that exactly what you (and others) are doing, too?  Comparing
> > apples to oranges?
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Michael Grant wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > He's comparing free open source products (apples) to
> > > extremely expensive products (oranges) and saying the reason it isn't
> > > successful is because the community hasn't evangelized enough.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Matt Quackenbush]

I too have been around since v4 (or was it 3?  I don't remember), but that
is irrelevant.  This is the first time (in this thread anyways) that you
have even mentioned Allaire or Macromedia, let alone compared them to
Adobe.  All of your posts are railing against Adobe for not "doing their
part" to grow the CF community to the size of the PHP, Ruby, etc.
communities.  And that is definitely comparing apples to oranges.

If that was not your intended comparison, I respectfully suggest you write a
clear and concise post detailing your comparison between Allaire,
Macromedia, and Adobe so that we can all understand that you're doing an
apples-to-apples comparison.  :-)


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Re: Dynamically output data

[Michael Grant]

I'd use something like this for the query.

select t1.name, t2.wkid, t2.title
from Table2 t2
left join Table1 t1
on t1.WKID = t2.WKID



On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Frank Liu  wrote:

>
> Hello
> I am new to coldfusion. Please help
>
> In Table1, I have something like this:
>
> WKID Name
> 1002 High School
>
> In Table2, I have something like this:
> WKIDTitle
> 1002Math Tecaher
> 1002Science Teacher
> 1002English Teacher
> (more)  (more)
>
> I need output to be like this:
>
> WKID:  1002
> Name:  High School
> Title:
> Math Teacher
> Science Teacher
> English Teacher
>  (more)
>
> I have problem with output table2.
> Thank you.
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

No. I'm comparing little apples (Allaire) to bigger apples (Macromedia) to
enormous apples (Adobe).

I've been using CF for many many years. I've done a lot to spread the word
in my neck of the woods. I've been laughed at for years for my choice of
go-to languages. I've talked until I'm blue in the face defending CF against
all the uninformed opinions and pre-conceived notions. I've had to convince
clients why CF is a good choice. I've fought the good fight since v4. And I
have noticed, as I'm sure others have, that since Adobe purchased Macromedia
CF seems to be treated like the ugly cousin that came with Flash.

It's about optics. And since Adobe got CF it is virtually invisible in the
dev world outside of it's community. It's can't be all left up to the user
base to make the product successful. Where we're at right now with CF is as
far as the community can take it.

That's what I think anyway. For whatever that's worth.



On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote:

>
> Hmm.  Isn't that exactly what you (and others) are doing, too?  Comparing
> apples to oranges?
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Michael Grant wrote:
>
> >
> > He's comparing free open source products (apples) to
> > extremely expensive products (oranges) and saying the reason it isn't
> > successful is because the community hasn't evangelized enough.
> >
>
>
> 

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Re: Open source - No Mortgage

[Mark Mandel]

Sorry Rick - trying to understand... what is the question?

Are you trying to work out how we all have time/inclination to work on OSS?

Mark

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Rick Colman  wrote:

>
> I guess I am "old school" but I have car payments, a mortgage, etc. etc.
> All of this open source/freeware stuff leaves me a little mystified.
>
> I suppose that it is possible to make some money around the "edges" of
> these technologies, but, I have this vision of an army of "geeks"
> working on these open source projects while they live in the garage of
> their parents house ...
>
> Rick.
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Wil Genovese]

"I'll continue to love the language and lament that Adobe ever bought it"

Actually, I am glad Adobe bought ColdFusion (Macromedia).  For decades Adobe 
has been a leader if not the leader in print media. For years Adobe had been 
trying to figure out how to make the transition from print to digital 
publishing. They had several poorly adopted products that never did well. When 
Adobe took over Macromedia and thus ColdFusion along with the other digital 
publishing products, Adobe found (bought) it's way into the future of digital 
media and publishing. I think Adobe is dedicated to keeping ColdFusion as the 
center of their offerings. Personally, I think Adobe could do more, and would 
love to see them do more.  Heck, maybe they are doing more and I have not seen 
or heard of those efforts.  





Wil Genovese

One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. 

On Jan 13, 2011, at 7:18 PM, Michael Grant wrote:

> 
> I'll continue to love the language and lament that Adobe ever bought it.


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Dynamically output data

[Frank Liu]

Hello
I am new to coldfusion. Please help

In Table1, I have something like this:

WKID Name
1002 High School

In Table2, I have something like this:
WKIDTitle
1002Math Tecaher
1002Science Teacher
1002English Teacher
(more)  (more)

I need output to be like this:

WKID:  1002
Name:  High School
Title:
Math Teacher
Science Teacher
English Teacher
 (more)

I have problem with output table2.
Thank you. 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Matt Quackenbush]

Hmm.  Isn't that exactly what you (and others) are doing, too?  Comparing
apples to oranges?


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Michael Grant wrote:

>
> He's comparing free open source products (apples) to
> extremely expensive products (oranges) and saying the reason it isn't
> successful is because the community hasn't evangelized enough.
>


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Open source - No Mortgage

[Rick Colman]

I guess I am "old school" but I have car payments, a mortgage, etc. etc. 
All of this open source/freeware stuff leaves me a little mystified.

I suppose that it is possible to make some money around the "edges" of 
these technologies, but, I have this vision of an army of "geeks" 
working on these open source projects while they live in the garage of 
their parents house ...

Rick.

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

I didn't miss his point at all. Don't interpret a differing opinion as a
lack of understanding. He's comparing free open source products (apples) to
extremely expensive products (oranges) and saying the reason it isn't
successful is because the community hasn't evangelized enough. I don't think
that's accurate.

It certainly seems obvious that Adobe and I have different opinions of what
success is for ColdFusion. If Adobe thinks CF is successful in the
marketplace then that's great. Good for them. As CF continues to lose devs
they can continue to get a warm fuzzy that they've sold a few copies.

I'll continue to love the language and lament that Adobe ever bought it.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote:

>
> Of course it is (now) Adobe's responsibility to make its offerings (CF, in
> this case) successful in the marketplace.  And CF **is** extremely
> successful in the marketplace.  You and Adobe's idea of marketplace just
> happen to be two different things.  But since their business relies on
> their
> marketplace, their opinion is the only one that matters.
>
> All of that said, you entirely missed Sean's point, which was, by the way,
> accurate.  :-)
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Michael Grant wrote:
>
> >
> > It's not the responsibility of a company to make it's offerings
> successful
> > in the marketplace?
> > If the success of CF isn't Adobe's responsibility then who's is it?
> >
>
>
> 

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RE: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Andrew Scott]

I have to agree here, the fact that one has to pay for the product in the
first place, means that the responsibility of this company making money of
this product is back in their court. By not promoting the product, getting
it out into areas that haven't even heard of the product, is like saying I
am not interested in whether I make money of this product or not.

It is not the communites, or current set of developers job to help make
Adobe money, that is and always will be Adobe's responsibility for as long
as the product costs money.


Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/



> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Quackenbush [mailto:quackfu...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 14 January 2011 12:09 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
> 
> 
> Of course it is (now) Adobe's responsibility to make its offerings (CF, in
this
> case) successful in the marketplace.  And CF **is** extremely successful
in
> the marketplace.  You and Adobe's idea of marketplace just happen to be
> two different things.  But since their business relies on their
marketplace,
> their opinion is the only one that matters.
> 
> All of that said, you entirely missed Sean's point, which was, by the way,
> accurate.  :-)


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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

I truly fear it may be a day late and a dollar short.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:07 PM, James Holmes wrote:

>
> Railo.
>
> --
> WSS4CF - WS-Security framework for CF
> http://wss4cf.riaforge.org/
>
> On 14 January 2011 09:03, Charlie Griefer 
> wrote:
> > Sure, but PHP, Ruby and other languages don't have an up front cost
> > associated with them.
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

I read it Sean. You said that I can't lay the fault at Adobe's door. And I
disagree. The difference between ACF and Ruby and PHP isn't how zealous it's
community is. CF zealots are some of the most involved and passionate out
there. And you can choke a horse with the amount of tutorials and books
available. The reason CF isn't more popular is because Adobe doesn't do
enough in the marketplace to dispel the myths about CF and to try justify
the cost of the product. They don't do enough to indoctrinate the next
generations of developers.

That's my two cents anyway.



On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:
> > If the success of CF isn't Adobe's responsibility then who's is it?
>
> Didn't you read what I said?
>
> >> Remember: the success of PHP, Ruby and other languages has come about
> >> _without_ a company spending money on marketing. Those languages have
> >> become popular because their users - their communities - have
> >> evangelized and created tutorials and books and great free open source
> >> software and so on. You can't lay the fault at Adobe's door...
>
> Community promotion made PHP, Ruby et al popular.
>
> Sean
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Matt Quackenbush]

Of course it is (now) Adobe's responsibility to make its offerings (CF, in
this case) successful in the marketplace.  And CF **is** extremely
successful in the marketplace.  You and Adobe's idea of marketplace just
happen to be two different things.  But since their business relies on their
marketplace, their opinion is the only one that matters.

All of that said, you entirely missed Sean's point, which was, by the way,
accurate.  :-)

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Michael Grant wrote:

>
> It's not the responsibility of a company to make it's offerings successful
> in the marketplace?
> If the success of CF isn't Adobe's responsibility then who's is it?
>


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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[James Holmes]

Railo.

--
WSS4CF - WS-Security framework for CF
http://wss4cf.riaforge.org/

On 14 January 2011 09:03, Charlie Griefer  wrote:
> Sure, but PHP, Ruby and other languages don't have an up front cost
> associated with them.

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Wil Genovese]

Sean, and others - I would argue that the ColdFusion community has been doing 
just that for years. I would also argue that price and the lack of ANY school, 
college, etc exposing students to ColdFusion is also a big part of this. No, 
it's not Adobe's fault, ColdFusion has been a commercial product from the 
beginning. But I think Adobe NEEDS to get into schools at all levels and push 
ColdFusion very hard. Yes, I know the educational license is available. Just 
because it is available does not means the schools know about it or are willing 
to use it.  

IMHO one reason why some companies are moving away from ColdFusion is due to 
the relatively small number of CF programmers. Again, I know the numbers are 
growing, but compared to other languages, there are not as many of us. Plus I 
think we cost more? I'm not sure about this, but all the PHP jobs I saw this 
past year paid poorly. 

Again, this is just my opinion and I do what I can to promote and support 
ColdFusion.  Recently going into companies and organizations and teaching them 
how to get high performance out of ColdFusion servers. It's amazing to see the 
attitudes change when it's realized that sometimes its just a few settings that 
were causing issues to the realization that a database (or other external 
resource) was causing ColdFusion to "fail" and not ColdFusion actually failing. 
 

To me, the growth and future of ColdFusion depends on the community as well as 
Adobe.  We (Community and Adobe) all need to get the word out about how well 
ColdFusion performs. We need to get into schools and start teaching CFML and 
CFScript, and get out into the organizations that are running ColdFusion show 
them how ColdFusion can help them when moving forward instead of feeling they 
need to migrate away from ColdFusion to move forward. Growth will come with 
education.

And back to the reason for this thread, ColdFusion biggest asset of being 
"Easy". Being easy is also one of ColdFusion's greatest weakness (IMHO). Just 
about anyone can put together some CFML that does something and run it against 
an Access DB. To me that is the beginning of a recipe for failure. I've seen 
some really bad CFML running against Access databases and the amount of 
badmouthing of ColdFusion coming from those places was horrendous. They had no 
clue the implementation was less than optimal, the code was bad or that Access 
was not ready for heavy load. Because ColdFusion is easy, means non-programmers 
can create CF apps and many if not most of those will fail. That's what I have 
seen and my opinion on those. I'd rather have a ColdFusion language that was a 
bit more difficult to learn so that real programmers programmed CF. I'm not 
being elitist or arrogant, I'm just expressing my opinion that has been based 
on what I have seen. 

It's up to everyone to step up and promote ColdFusion.

Wil Genovese

One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. 

On Jan 13, 2011, at 6:39 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:

> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:
>> Unfortunately I don't Adobe has
>> done much to dispel those myths. I hope I'm wrong. But I couldn't in good
>> conscience tell a n00b to start learning CF over Ruby or PHP.
> 
> Remember: the success of PHP, Ruby and other languages has come about
> _without_ a company spending money on marketing. Those languages have
> become popular because their users - their communities - have
> evangelized and created tutorials and books and great free open source
> software and so on. You can't lay the fault at Adobe's door...
> -- 
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
> 
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
> 
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Charlie Griefer]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Sean Corfield  wrote:

> Remember: the success of PHP, Ruby and other languages has come about
> _without_ a company spending money on marketing. Those languages have
> become popular because their users - their communities - have
> evangelized and created tutorials and books and great free open source
> software and so on. You can't lay the fault at Adobe's door...

Sure, but PHP, Ruby and other languages don't have an up front cost
associated with them.  So yeah, nobody had to market those languages,
but at the same time, those languages didn't have to overcome the
objections of "why should I pay $x per server up front and then the
costs of upgrades..."

I think the CF community has done OK in creating tutorials and the
like.  Books, maybe not so much since version 6, but I think that's
more due to publishers not being so interested in publishing
ColdFusion books.  Great free open source software?  Yeah, we may be
lacking in that area compared to other languages... but I think that
price tag issue still comes into play there.  You can set up a PHP
server and grab wordpress and be up and running.  If you want
ColdFusion OSS, you still need to buy the ColdFusion license... so I
don't know that the demand has been there enough to justify the
effort.

Don't get me wrong... you and I have had this conversation at CFUG
meetings.  There just doesn't seem to be as much enthusiasm in general
within the CF community as there is in some other, younger
communities.  We've talked about some of the reasons why that might be
(mature language, many users content to get by using what they
know...), and that's unfortunate.

But CF is, and likely always will be, a niche product.  We'll never
have the sheer numbers that PHP or Ruby do.  So as enthusiastic as our
army may ever be... we'll never have the numbers to go out and really
make a significant impact on the programming community as a whole.
We're just not big enough (and yeah, i know, that's what she said).

So yes... I think there's some responsibility in the community to
evangelize and help spread the word.  But I do think we are perfectly
justified in laying a good amount of the responsibility at Adobe's
door.  It's their product.  They charge for it (the product, the
support).  I think they share a huge chunk of the responsibility in
helping to spread the word, and I'd personally love to see them make
more of an effort in that area.  If Microsoft could show up as a
sponsor at a CF conference, why doesn't Adobe show up at MS events?
Or other non Adobe-specific events?  Where's the advertising in the
media targeting other developers?  I see lots of it for Flex and AIR
and "hey let's all go be Android developers and f*ck Apple".  Don't
see nearly that much time/energy/effort in saying, "hey let's all go
be CF developers and f*ck Ruby or .NET or whomever else".

Just my $0.02 :)

-- 
Charlie Griefer
http://charlie.griefer.com/

I have failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my life. I love
my wife. And I wish you my kind of success.

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Re: drag and drop widgets

[Josh Nathanson]

> jQuery is the best overall js library for RIA I reckon, but not much inthe
way
> of drag'n'drop widgets.

jQuery UI is a separate library that deals with the draggy and droppy type
stuff.  The first couple iterations were a little rough but it is much
improved now.  The syntax is very similar to jQuery syntax and easy to use.

http://jqueryui.com

-- Josh


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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:
> If the success of CF isn't Adobe's responsibility then who's is it?

Didn't you read what I said?

>> Remember: the success of PHP, Ruby and other languages has come about
>> _without_ a company spending money on marketing. Those languages have
>> become popular because their users - their communities - have
>> evangelized and created tutorials and books and great free open source
>> software and so on. You can't lay the fault at Adobe's door...

Community promotion made PHP, Ruby et al popular.

Sean

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Re: US Government moving to Drupal?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Gerald Guido  wrote:
> Pls let us know what you find out if it is not included on this thread, if
> at all possible.

I've had a couple of private emails containing information I'm not
allowed to share because, well, they probably shouldn't have shared it
with me. But nothing negative about CFML, so that's all good too...
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

It's not the responsibility of a company to make it's offerings successful
in the marketplace?
If the success of CF isn't Adobe's responsibility then who's is it?



On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:
> > Unfortunately I don't Adobe has
> > done much to dispel those myths. I hope I'm wrong. But I couldn't in good
> > conscience tell a n00b to start learning CF over Ruby or PHP.
>
> Remember: the success of PHP, Ruby and other languages has come about
> _without_ a company spending money on marketing. Those languages have
> become popular because their users - their communities - have
> evangelized and created tutorials and books and great free open source
> software and so on. You can't lay the fault at Adobe's door...
> --
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 

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RE: drag and drop widgets

[Andrew Scott]

Actually I disagree.

1) ExtJS is the best framework for doing RIA out there at the moment.
2) jQuery and ExtJS Core are on par for DOM manipulation, and it comes down
to personal taste in the syntax.
3) ColdFusion has always used ExtJS for its UI stuff.

When comparing jQuery and ExtJS Core (The very cut down, and free version to
its bigger sister), there really is nothing to compare they both do the same
job with the same outcome. 

Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/


> -Original Message-
> From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
> Sent: Friday, 14 January 2011 11:28 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: drag and drop widgets
> 
> 
> jQuery is the best overall js library for RIA I reckon, but not much in
the way
> of drag'n'drop widgets. I believe extjs is what CF now uses for its built
in
> widgets.
> 


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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Michael Grant  wrote:
> Unfortunately I don't Adobe has
> done much to dispel those myths. I hope I'm wrong. But I couldn't in good
> conscience tell a n00b to start learning CF over Ruby or PHP.

Remember: the success of PHP, Ruby and other languages has come about
_without_ a company spending money on marketing. Those languages have
become popular because their users - their communities - have
evangelized and created tutorials and books and great free open source
software and so on. You can't lay the fault at Adobe's door...
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: drag and drop widgets

[Michael Grant]

I think you're right about CF using ExtJS.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> jQuery is the best overall js library for RIA I reckon, but not much in the
> way of drag'n'drop widgets. I believe extjs is what CF now uses for its
> built in widgets.
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:49 PM, Rick Faircloth <
> ric...@whitestonemedia.com
> > wrote:
>
> >
> > Yep, jQuery all the way!
> >
> > I tried ExtJS, but didn't like it. :oP
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:51 PM
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Re: drag and drop widgets
> >
> >
> > My personal fav is JQuery.
> > Here's an example:
> > http://www.webresourcesdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/file/jquerydragdrop/
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John M Bliss 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library)
> to
> > > allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages
> like
> > > on http://www.google.com/ig
> > >
> > > --
> > > John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: drag and drop widgets

[John M Bliss]

Oh, is there a built-in CF drag-and-drop approach?

On Jan 13, 2011 6:28 PM, "Russ Michaels"  wrote:


jQuery is the best overall js library for RIA I reckon, but not much in the
way of drag'n'drop widgets. I believe extjs is what CF now uses for its
built in widgets.



On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:49 PM, Rick Faircloth  wrote:

>
> Yep, jQ...
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Re: drag and drop widgets

[Russ Michaels]

jQuery is the best overall js library for RIA I reckon, but not much in the
way of drag'n'drop widgets. I believe extjs is what CF now uses for its
built in widgets.


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:49 PM, Rick Faircloth  wrote:

>
> Yep, jQuery all the way!
>
> I tried ExtJS, but didn't like it. :oP
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:51 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: drag and drop widgets
>
>
> My personal fav is JQuery.
> Here's an example:
> http://www.webresourcesdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/file/jquerydragdrop/
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John M Bliss 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library) to
> > allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages like
> > on http://www.google.com/ig
> >
> > --
> > John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

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Re: US Government moving to Drupal?

[Gerald Guido]

>> I'm genuinely interested in hearing from folks with insight into
government agency IT departments

As am I.

>>and so far the feedback has been very
positive (which is good).

Pls let us know what you find out if it is not included on this thread, if
at all possible.

Thank you sir,
G!



On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Gerald Guido 
> wrote:
> > Is this really that big of a deal? Or is that what you are trying to find
> > out?
>
> I'm genuinely interested in hearing from folks with insight into
> government agency IT departments and so far the feedback has been very
> positive (which is good).
> --
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 

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RE: 6502 (was Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?)

[Andrew Scott]

I am not surprised that there are people out there keeping the memory alive,
even with emulators the scene would be still going strong.

Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/


> -Original Message-
> From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
> Sent: Friday, 14 January 2011 12:02 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: RE: 6502 (was Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?)
> 
> 
> Believe it or not there is still a C64 scene going strong, people still
writing
> demos etc. So maybe you can find your old games.
> I had a few C128's and C128D's, can't say I ever really had any problems
with
> C64 stuff not working, apart form the odd problem with the D030 register
> being written to which switch to 2mhz mode and would turn the display off
> as it wont work in 40 cols modes, but this was always easy to fix.
> All the VIC tricks and SID tricks worked fine on my C128 and I even used
to
> run my business using it with the software written specifically for C128
mode
> in 80 cols. I even still have a C128D now :-) I can't really comment on
who did
> the first game with sprite multi plexing or no borders as these things
have
> been around forever in my memory, I was using them even in my old
> compunet demos. It is however generally well known that 1001 crew created
> the first no borders demo, which was a fullscreen king tut picture.
> 


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Re: US Government moving to Drupal?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Gerald Guido  wrote:
> Is this really that big of a deal? Or is that what you are trying to find
> out?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing from folks with insight into
government agency IT departments and so far the feedback has been very
positive (which is good).
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: drag and drop widgets

[Rick Faircloth]

Yep, jQuery all the way!

I tried ExtJS, but didn't like it. :oP

-Original Message-
From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz] 
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:51 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: drag and drop widgets


My personal fav is JQuery.
Here's an example:
http://www.webresourcesdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/file/jquerydragdrop/

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John M Bliss  wrote:

>
> Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library) to
> allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages like
> on http://www.google.com/ig
>
> --
> John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss
>
>
> 



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Re: drag and drop widgets

[denstar]

My fav is Dojo.  It's just awesome.

http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dojo/tests/dnd/test_dnd.html

Check out the syntax, too (view source).

The markup version will be pretty easy for CFers to pick up.

Ex:


Item 1
Item 2
Item 3


:Den

-- 
Truth is simply a compliment paid to sentences seen to be paying their way.
Richard Rorty

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:12 PM, John M Bliss wrote:
>
> Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library) to
> allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages like
> on http://www.google.com/ig
>
> --
> John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss
>
>
> 

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Re: drag and drop widgets

[Michael Grant]

My personal fav is JQuery.
Here's an example:
http://www.webresourcesdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/file/jquerydragdrop/

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John M Bliss  wrote:

>
> Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library) to
> allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages like
> on http://www.google.com/ig
>
> --
> John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss
>
>
> 

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Re: Accessing Visual Fox Pro

[Jason Fisher]

Ach, VFP ... what a pain.  Still have a lot in our shop, but hoping to kill 
most of it this year ;)

Not sure if you can actually use SQL Server as the intermediary, like you do 
with Access, but you can definitely create SSIS scripts to pull VFP data into 
SQL tables, which is what we do for a few widely used tables.


> I am working on a project that connects to an ERP system running 
> Visual Fox Pro as its backend.
> 
> Ideally I would like to connect SQL Server to the VFP database and use 
> SQL Server as the interface, like you can with Access. Does anyone 
> know if that's possible? Good idea or suicidal?
> 
> Thanks,
> Duane


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Re: drag and drop widgets

[John M Bliss]

Like this...?
http://www.sencha.com/learn/Tutorial:Custom_Drag_and_Drop_Part_1

Do you
have a preferred learn-by-example?


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> There are of course others, but I like ExtJS best.
>
> Russ
> -Original Message-
> From: John M Bliss [mailto:bliss.j...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2011 22:12
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: drag and drop widgets
>
>
> Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library) to
> allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages like
> on http://www.google.com/ig
>
> --
> John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss
>
>
>
>
> 

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RE: drag and drop widgets

[Russ Michaels]

There are of course others, but I like ExtJS best.

Russ
-Original Message-
From: John M Bliss [mailto:bliss.j...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 January 2011 22:12
To: cf-talk
Subject: drag and drop widgets


Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library) to
allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages like
on http://www.google.com/ig

-- 
John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss




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drag and drop widgets

[John M Bliss]

Hi, CF'ers.  What's your current favorite method (JS/CSS/etc library) to
allow for dragging and dropping widgets (page sections) around pages like
on http://www.google.com/ig

-- 
John Bliss - http://about.me/jbliss


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Re: US Government moving to Drupal?

[Dave Watts]

> Can you give some examples of CMS solutions that are losing support?

I don't know if I can get into specifics, but basically everything
that's not on that list is losing support.

>> CF has been in use by the federal government practically as long as
>> it's existed - we were working on government projects back in CF 2.0
>
> Thanx. I knew it was a long relationship but I didn't know when it started.

Well, not to toot our own horn, but I think that Fig Leaf Software is
at least partially responsible for this. We were (and are) big
boosters of CF: we started the first user group here and ran it for
many years, and many of the attendees were government employees. But
there are lots of other reasons why CF has always been popular - it
was first to market and had the chance to take hold in many agencies,
and while companies come and go, the government is around forever.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Michael Grant]

Well they aren't my numbers, they are the numbers that were on the job board
that someone else posted. I was just listing what I saw. True the CF jobs
are slightly higher paying, but that's a symtom of having a much smaller
talent pool to draw from.

I would love CF to be a more serious competitor in the industry but frankly
the only people who know how great it is are the ones using it. It has
virtually no industry buzz and the common opinion of it is that it's
expensive, slow, and not a "real" language. Unfortunately I don't Adobe has
done much to dispel those myths. I hope I'm wrong. But I couldn't in good
conscience tell a n00b to start learning CF over Ruby or PHP.

Sad but true.


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Larry Lyons  wrote:

>
> Your numbers are somewhat deceptive. You also need to look at the
> locations, and the median salary by location. You'll find that CF developer
> salaries are higher than many of the other web based languages.
>
> That said, why does this sort of troll occur on a regular basis?
>
> >Wow. Whether you meant to or not you just made my point. Not about CA, but
> >about the dismal state of CF employment.
> >
> >Total CF jobs: 2,382
> >Total PHP jobs: 21,015
> >Total .net jobs: 115,283
> >Total ruby jobs: 11,309
> >Total python jobs: 17,547
> >
> >In each of the above (except ruby) there's more jobs in the +100K range
> than
> >the entire number of CF jobs.
> >
> >That speaks volumes... and I'm a CF guy, have been for 13+ years. I wish
> it
> >weren't so, but it is.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
>
> 

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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Larry Lyons]

Your numbers are somewhat deceptive. You also need to look at the locations, 
and the median salary by location. You'll find that CF developer salaries are 
higher than many of the other web based languages. 

That said, why does this sort of troll occur on a regular basis?

>Wow. Whether you meant to or not you just made my point. Not about CA, but
>about the dismal state of CF employment.
>
>Total CF jobs: 2,382
>Total PHP jobs: 21,015
>Total .net jobs: 115,283
>Total ruby jobs: 11,309
>Total python jobs: 17,547
>
>In each of the above (except ruby) there's more jobs in the +100K range than
>the entire number of CF jobs.
>
>That speaks volumes... and I'm a CF guy, have been for 13+ years. I wish it
>weren't so, but it is.
>
>
>
>
>
>> 

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RE: 6502 (was Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?)

[Russ Michaels]

You still have a chance LOL.
Funnily enough someone just emailed me this week asking for an interview to
talk about my C64 days, the groups I was in, demos I coded, what games I
cracked etc. Really stretched my memory to remember that I can tell ya :-)

Russ

-Original Message-
From: denstar [mailto:valliants...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 January 2011 20:03
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: 6502 (was Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?)


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:01 AM, Russ Michaels wrote:
>
> Believe it or not there is still a C64 scene going strong, people still
> writing demos etc. So maybe you can find your old games.

I always wanted to go to a demo party in like, Norway or some such.  *le
sigh*

Guess I ain't dead yet, and they /are/ still happening, so...  =)

:Den

-- 
The world does not speak. Only we do. The world can, once we have
programmed ourselves with a language, cause us to hold beliefs. But it
cannot propose a language for us to speak. Only other human beings can
do that.
Richard Rorty



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RE: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Russ Michaels]

I presume they are all Linux images ?
I did actually speak with Microsoft at an event last year about using
windows for such things, and they actually said there is actually no reason
why you couldn't deploy the windows trial version in this way and then leave
people to apply their own license keys.

Russ

-Original Message-
From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:str...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 January 2011 18:42
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?


Because it's open source, they can't put Adobe CF on there. He did make a
video (#21, http://blog.jumpbox.com/2009/09/28/deployment-ramp-ups/) on
installing a CFML app into Railo into Tomcat on a JumpBox VM. A few quick
steps and he gets the whole thing running. You're right though, it's a
shame, but I asked him about it and he said there just hadn't been enough
interest in a Railo VM. If a few more people ask for it, and would actually
pay for it the service, he would probably put a supported VM with Railo up,
probably within a couple days.

nathan strutz
[http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Shame CF is not listed
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:str...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2011 18:07
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
>
>
> Mission already accomplished by a friend and former CFUG manager:
>
> http://www.jumpbox.com/
>
> 
> nathan strutz
> [http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Bryan Stevenson <
> br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Great idea.just setup a base VMcopy the virtual disks (one per
> > language)then setup each as needed
> >
> > On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 17:51 +, Dominic Watson wrote:
> >
> > > Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it.
Something
> > > encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
> > > language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations
> (me
> > > being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for
> > learning
> > > would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot
up
> > the
> > > VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just
> scrap
> > > the VM and start over.
> > >
> > > Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p
> > >
> > > On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
> > > > only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
> > > > spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
> > > > installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
> > > > source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
> > > > didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
> > > > find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
> > > > have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
> > > > language development has occurred on Linux.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 



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Re: help w/ DateDiff() please

[Leigh]

> try # 3  
> select  dte_2dlcl from execcoresp000.correspondence 
> where dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl')< 8 

Keep in mind it is often more efficient to rewrite the query using a basic date 
comparison. (Functions can sometimes impede the database's use of indexes.) The 
syntax depends what you mean by "within 8 days" and whether your column stores 
a date only or a date and time. Some examples are:

ie 
- WHERE SomeDateColumn > 




  

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Re: help w/ DateDiff() please

[Michael Grant]

I suspect dte_2dlcl is the name of a date/time column in his database.
Though it shouldn't be surrounded in single quotes if that's the case.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Well dte_2dlcl is not a valid enddate for a start.
> You also need to make sure the dates are in the proper format the database
> understands.
>
> If your using sql server
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa258269%28v=sql.80%29.aspx
>
> Russ
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jay Birdsell [mailto:john_birds...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2011 19:41
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: help w/ DateDiff() please
>
>
> The dateDiff () is killing me!  can someone please look at this and help me
> clear my head.
>
> What I have is a db that tracks executive correspondence  when drafts are
> due and when the final response is due.   I need a report that will list
> any
> correspondence that has a draft or final date within 8 days of the run date
> (today). I've read that i should be able to do this right in the select
> statement. However I have found a clean concise example here is what I have
> tried so far;
>
> try # 1::
> 
>select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
>from execcoresp000
>
>
> Results:: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
>
> try# 2
>
> 
>select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
>from execcoresp000
>where m < 8
>
> Results:  Error M invalid identifier
>
> try # 3
> 
>select  dte_2dlcl
>from execcoresp000.correspondence
>where dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl')< 8
>
> Results: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
>
>
> The other error i tend to get is "Missing right parenthese"
>
> i really dont want to get in a bunch of nested loops to do this.  any
> ideas?
>
> tia,
>
> jbird
>
>
>
> 

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RE: help w/ DateDiff() please

[Russ Michaels]

Well dte_2dlcl is not a valid enddate for a start.
You also need to make sure the dates are in the proper format the database
understands.

If your using sql server
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa258269%28v=sql.80%29.aspx

Russ

-Original Message-
From: Jay Birdsell [mailto:john_birds...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 13 January 2011 19:41
To: cf-talk
Subject: help w/ DateDiff() please


The dateDiff () is killing me!  can someone please look at this and help me
clear my head.

What I have is a db that tracks executive correspondence  when drafts are
due and when the final response is due.   I need a report that will list any
correspondence that has a draft or final date within 8 days of the run date
(today). I've read that i should be able to do this right in the select
statement. However I have found a clean concise example here is what I have
tried so far; 

try # 1::

select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
from execcoresp000


Results:: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"

try# 2 


select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
from execcoresp000 
where m < 8

Results:  Error M invalid identifier

try # 3
 
select  dte_2dlcl  
from execcoresp000.correspondence 
where dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl')< 8

Results: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"


The other error i tend to get is "Missing right parenthese"

i really dont want to get in a bunch of nested loops to do this.  any ideas?

tia,

jbird 



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Re: US Government moving to Drupal?

[Gerald Guido]

Is this really that big of a deal? Or is that what you are trying to find
out? According to the Adobe folks that sales were strong for CF 8 and that
the market share and/or numbers of developers is growing. Are we just
tormenting ourselves with another round of "CFID" related FUD?

thanx
G!

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:

>
> I saw Blue River (the Mura folks) tweet this today:
>
> http://twitter.com/#!/brinteractive/statuses/25246946570534912
>
> They reference the Washington Post article about the House migrating
> 520 websites from "a mix of proprietary and open-source content
> management platforms" to Drupal.
>
> The other day, I saw a job post on a CFUG list looking for a Java
> architect with CF experience to lead a migration from ColdFusion to
> Java for a federal agency in the Bay Area, California.
>
> I don't want to start one of those interminable "CF is dying" threads
> but I am curious as to how many people had seen these stories and what
> they thought in the context of the US government following many other
> world governments in a push for FOSS (Free Open Source Software)
> solutions? I'm also curious about how Drupal and, say, Mura or FarCry
> compare since I'm not familiar enough with all of them to make such a
> comparison.
>
> The government has always been a pretty strong area for ColdFusion
> (does someone here know how long ColdFusion has been so deeply
> embedded in government? I get the impression it long predates my
> exposure to ColdFusion - 2001). At CFUnited in 2009, a government IT
> guy approached me and told me his department had been mandated to move
> to FOSS and he was researching a proposal to cross-train his team in
> PHP and rewrite all their CFML applications. How many folks here work
> within the government and can comment on this sort of thing?
> --
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 

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Re: help w/ DateDiff() please

[Leigh]

> a database's dateDiff() function?  If you're using a
> database's, then I 
> think you need to wrap #today# in quotes.

Depends on whether it is a date string or date object. Though using 
cfqueryparam would negate the need for quotes.




 

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Re: 6502 (was Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?)

[denstar]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:01 AM, Russ Michaels wrote:
>
> Believe it or not there is still a C64 scene going strong, people still
> writing demos etc. So maybe you can find your old games.

I always wanted to go to a demo party in like, Norway or some such.  *le sigh*

Guess I ain't dead yet, and they /are/ still happening, so...  =)

:Den

-- 
The world does not speak. Only we do. The world can, once we have
programmed ourselves with a language, cause us to hold beliefs. But it
cannot propose a language for us to speak. Only other human beings can
do that.
Richard Rorty

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RE: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Arsalan Tariq Keen]

Being a part time web developer for past 11 years and being a strong CFML fan, 
I feel it's a good thing that CFML is adapting to the new trends (like OO and 
Frameworks) where as it still maintaining its legacy of ease of programing 
through procedural style. If you feel like adapting to OO and Frameworks, you 
are most welcome, CF is gaining tremendous momentum in this field... if you are 
not comfortable with all this ... procedural style is always there :) So in 
short... the way I see... CFML is not loosing anything ... it's just widening 
its base to accommodate as many programmers as it can by providing a variety of 
solutions.
However, throughout my experience of web development, unfortunately CFML has 
not gained much popularity as compared to its competitors like ASP, ASP.net and 
PHP .. and that's primarily due to PRICE... because for quite a long time CFML 
had been quite expensive. However, products like Railo are the solutions to 
this problem. Where as ACF remains the enterprise level server for CFML, Railo 
caters the CFML community that doesn't want to spend money for the flashy 
things in ACF.
I feel there are two areas where CFML needs to be strengthened. Those being:
1- It should be offered as a solution by hosting companies. Unfortunately not 
much hosting providers offer CFML as part of their portfolio even though 
products like Railo and OpenBD are totally free. All implementations of CFML 
including ACF, Railo, BD and OpenBD are cool for VPS where as Railo also offers 
a very strong portfolio for shared hosting as well. The CFML community needs to 
reach out in this area!
2- Secondly, after working on PHP for sometime recently, I have learned that 
PHP has a huge opensource community. You want something, you have it open 
source. This has given PHP a lot of boost apart from being free itself. 
Application like WordPress, PHPBB etc give a lot of reasons for people to chose 
PHP and not CFML. Only if we could have COMPARABLE ALTERNATIVES to such 
software in CFML and that also open source.
Also, when I was trying to learn PHP, I found so many video tutorials on the 
internet which teach everything about PHP from simple procedural to OOs of PHP. 
Weather it be WordPress or CakePHP, you can find that all on good old 
YOUTUBE.. and you see... that.. is also free :) ... we don't have such 
resources for CFML. Unless people will not know what CFML is how will they be 
attracted to it? Maybe the CFML cheetahs on this group can take out sometime to 
address this :)
Besides all this, CFML community has many strong points as well. I find CFML 
extremely powerful since it can integrate with java, .net, CORBA, FLASH and 
what not. And again... I find CFML to be extremely natural to common sense :D 
But you see no one is going to know all of this unless they step inside the 
community and to make them step inside we need to offer them things that 
interest them! :)

Best wishes for CFML and the community!
Regards,Arsalan


> To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
> Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:06:24 -0800
> From: seancorfi...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Wil Genovese  wrote:
> > It would be nice if the Railo folks worked with Jumpbox to provide a Railo 
> > JumpBox. Sean? hint? hint? :-)
> 
> Well, Railo already has an Amazon AMI fully configured and ready to
> run. This is the first time I've heard interest in Railo on JumpBox
> (actually the first time I've heard about JumpBox at all).
> -- 
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
> 
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
> 
> 

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Re: help w/ DateDiff() please

[Eric Cobb]

Wait, I'm confused, are you trying to use the CF dateDiff() function, or 
a database's dateDiff() function?  If you're using a database's, then I 
think you need to wrap #today# in quotes.

Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com


On 1/13/2011 1:53 PM, Eric Cobb wrote:
> Is "dte_2dlcl" a column in the database?  You can't execute a ColdFusion
> function on a database column in a query.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Cobb
> ECAR Technologies, LLC
> http://www.ecartech.com
> http://www.cfgears.com
>
>
> On 1/13/2011 1:41 PM, Jay Birdsell wrote:
>> The dateDiff () is killing me!  can someone please look at this and help me 
>> clear my head.
>>
>> What I have is a db that tracks executive correspondence  when drafts are 
>> due and when the final response is due.   I need a report that will list any 
>> correspondence that has a draft or final date within 8 days of the run date 
>> (today). I've read that i should be able to do this right in the select 
>> statement. However I have found a clean concise example here is what I have 
>> tried so far;
>>
>> try # 1::
>> 
>>   select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
>>   from execcoresp000
>>   
>>
>> Results:: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
>>
>> try# 2
>>
>> 
>>   select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
>>   from execcoresp000
>>   where m<   8
>>   
>> Results:  Error M invalid identifier
>>
>> try # 3
>>
>>   select  dte_2dlcl
>>   from execcoresp000.correspondence
>>   where dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl')<   8
>>   
>> Results: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
>>
>>
>> The other error i tend to get is "Missing right parenthese"
>>
>> i really dont want to get in a bunch of nested loops to do this.  any ideas?
>>
>> tia,
>>
>> jbird
>>
>>
> 

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Re: help w/ DateDiff() please

[Leigh]

> try # 1::
> select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as
> Results:: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"

If you are trying to use MS SQL's function, it does not allow quotes around the 
datepart. So it would just be:  d not 'd' (in quotes).  Also if "dte_2dlcl" is 
a column name, remove the quotes or your database will think it is a literal 
string.

ie dateDiff('d', today, 'dte_2dlcl')
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189794.aspx






-
Leigh
http://cfsearching.blogspot.com/


--- On Thu, 1/13/11, Jay Birdsell  wrote:

> From: Jay Birdsell 
> Subject: help w/ DateDiff() please
> To: "cf-talk" 
> Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 7:41 PM
> 
> The dateDiff () is killing me!  can someone please
> look at this and help me clear my head.
> 
> What I have is a db that tracks executive
> correspondence  when drafts are due and when the final
> response is due.   I need a report that will
> list any correspondence that has a draft or final date
> within 8 days of the run date (today). I've read that i
> should be able to do this right in the select statement.
> However I have found a clean concise example here is what I
> have tried so far; 
> 
> try # 1::
> 
>            
> select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as
> m
>             from
> execcoresp000
>             
> 
> Results:: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
> 
> try# 2 
> 
> 
>            
> select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as
> m
>             from
> execcoresp000 
>             where m < 8
>             
> Results:  Error M invalid identifier
> 
> try # 3
>           name="final8" datasource="dev11g" >
>             select 
> dte_2dlcl  
>             from
> execcoresp000.correspondence 
>             where
> dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl')< 8
>             
> Results: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
> 
> 
> The other error i tend to get is "Missing right
> parenthese"
> 
> i really dont want to get in a bunch of nested loops to do
> this.  any ideas?
> 
> tia,
> 
> jbird 
> 
> 

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Re: help w/ DateDiff() please

[Eric Cobb]

Is "dte_2dlcl" a column in the database?  You can't execute a ColdFusion 
function on a database column in a query.

Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com


On 1/13/2011 1:41 PM, Jay Birdsell wrote:
> The dateDiff () is killing me!  can someone please look at this and help me 
> clear my head.
>
> What I have is a db that tracks executive correspondence  when drafts are due 
> and when the final response is due.   I need a report that will list any 
> correspondence that has a draft or final date within 8 days of the run date 
> (today). I've read that i should be able to do this right in the select 
> statement. However I have found a clean concise example here is what I have 
> tried so far;
>
> try # 1::
> 
>  select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
>  from execcoresp000
>  
>
> Results:: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
>
> try# 2
>
> 
>  select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
>  from execcoresp000
>  where m<  8
>  
> Results:  Error M invalid identifier
>
> try # 3
>   
>  select  dte_2dlcl
>  from execcoresp000.correspondence
>  where dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl')<  8
>  
> Results: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"
>
>
> The other error i tend to get is "Missing right parenthese"
>
> i really dont want to get in a bunch of nested loops to do this.  any ideas?
>
> tia,
>
> jbird
>
> 

~|
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help w/ DateDiff() please

[Jay Birdsell]

The dateDiff () is killing me!  can someone please look at this and help me 
clear my head.

What I have is a db that tracks executive correspondence  when drafts are due 
and when the final response is due.   I need a report that will list any 
correspondence that has a draft or final date within 8 days of the run date 
(today). I've read that i should be able to do this right in the select 
statement. However I have found a clean concise example here is what I have 
tried so far; 

try # 1::

select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
from execcoresp000


Results:: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"

try# 2 


select   dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl') as m
from execcoresp000 
where m < 8

Results:  Error M invalid identifier

try # 3
 
select  dte_2dlcl  
from execcoresp000.correspondence 
where dateDiff('d',#today#,'dte_2dlcl')< 8

Results: Error - "DateDiff invalid identifier"


The other error i tend to get is "Missing right parenthese"

i really dont want to get in a bunch of nested loops to do this.  any ideas?

tia,

jbird 

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Re: US Government moving to Drupal?

[John Allen]

At a big Gov agency I am fighting the good fight to implement Mura but the
superiors wana spend money on a CMS so they are looking at some CF COTS
products. It's a bummer cause I really LOVE Mura.

That said the agency is FOR SURE keeping ACF for its public facing stuff. On
the inside they are mixed (CF,.NET, VB, SAS the list is huge...), but thank
goodness that their using ACF for the external stuff, it's the only 'glue'
(that I wana use) to easily consume all the internal data they want to push
to the public.


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Matthew Williams
wrote:

>
> I've been working with .GOV as a shared CF server admin since the
> beginning of '06 for EPA, and the impression I've always been given is
> that our branch is only interested in enterprise solutions.  Even the
> FOSS apps that are being run are the Enterprise variants (Solaris, RHEL,
> etc).  If there's no large vendor behind supporting the product, no one
> wants to "own" the project of putting it in place and having a potential
> failure.  In the last year it's begun to change with the inclusion of
> PHP (but only cake-php CMS), and some facebook integration apps, but it
> still remains pretty much an enterprise only shop.  Not that I'm going
> to complain, I hope that they keep CF around for at least another 5-10
> year ;).
>
>
> Matthew Williams
> Geodesic GraFX
> www.geodesicgrafx.com/blog
>
> 

~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Wil Genovese  wrote:
> It would be nice if the Railo folks worked with Jumpbox to provide a Railo 
> JumpBox. Sean? hint? hint? :-)

Well, Railo already has an Amazon AMI fully configured and ready to
run. This is the first time I've heard interest in Railo on JumpBox
(actually the first time I've heard about JumpBox at all).
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: Issues with session variables

[Nathan Strutz]

For the timeout issue, there are a couple things, but most likely, your CF5
server is crashing. This is especially true if you have a busy server or use
session & application variables a good amount without using cflock. I think
(and it's been a LONG time) you can check to see if your server is actually
restarting itself by finding your windows event log. This is very possibly
the case especially if you are experiencing this on your production server
but not your development server (assuming you have one and they are separate
machines).

The solution? Upgrade your server to CF9 or if it's a money thing, go to
Railo, it's perfectly fine and will do the job as well as give you a million
new features that you can start to use. CF5 is well over a decade old. Stop
running it. Stop punishing yourself. You are worth more than this.

Oh I just noticed you said it works with client variables, too. Check the
client timeout, check your cookie timeout, especially with Firebug to make
sure they aren't set to expire within a minute. Then look for anything that
interacts with cookies, cfide & cftoken. You can pass #session.urltoken# in
all your links to eliminate any possibilities of having a cookie issue.

nathan strutz
[http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Maneesha Aggarwal wrote:

>
> We have an issue with early timeout using session and client variables. We
> are using ColdFusion 5. We have set up sessiontimeout for 2 hours in
> CFAPPLICATION as well as in CF Admin (maximum timeout and default timeout).
> But Session variables expire in approximately 45 sec. The same behavior is
> with client variables.
>
> Do you have any idea what it can be? Any help is appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Issues with session variables

[Wil Genovese]

Exactly what he said. However, since you are also having trouble with client 
variables, I suspect that the memory storage location is the issue. Usually by 
default sessions are managed via the cookies on CF5. However it was possible to 
change this to Registry or choose a database.  If the server is set to use the 
Registry it could be running out of storage space to save the sessions and thus 
they are getting lost (expired really).

Look in the CF Admin for memory storage location and make sure it's set to 
cookies or a database provided that one was setup to do client variable storage.


Wil Genovese
Sr. Web Application Developer/
Systems Administrator

Wil Genovese Consulting
wilg...@trunkful.com
www.trunkful.com

On Jan 13, 2011, at 12:43 PM, Justin Scott wrote:

> 
> Are the session id and token cookies being set properly and retained
> by the browser and passed back to the application on subsequent
> requests?  That is how ColdFusion links the request to the particular
> session in memory.  If those values are being lost then CF wouldn't
> know what session to load.  Without the cookies, the session values
> can be passed over the URL as well.
> 
> -Justin
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Maneesha Aggarwal  wrote:
>> 
>> We have an issue with early timeout using session and client variables. We 
>> are using ColdFusion 5. We have set up sessiontimeout for 2 hours in 
>> CFAPPLICATION as well as in CF Admin (maximum timeout and default timeout). 
>> But Session variables expire in approximately 45 sec. The same behavior is 
>> with client variables.
>> 
>> Do you have any idea what it can be? Any help is appreciated.
> 
> 

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Re: Issues with session variables

[Justin Scott]

Are the session id and token cookies being set properly and retained
by the browser and passed back to the application on subsequent
requests?  That is how ColdFusion links the request to the particular
session in memory.  If those values are being lost then CF wouldn't
know what session to load.  Without the cookies, the session values
can be passed over the URL as well.

-Justin


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Maneesha Aggarwal  wrote:
>
> We have an issue with early timeout using session and client variables. We 
> are using ColdFusion 5. We have set up sessiontimeout for 2 hours in 
> CFAPPLICATION as well as in CF Admin (maximum timeout and default timeout). 
> But Session variables expire in approximately 45 sec. The same behavior is 
> with client variables.
>
> Do you have any idea what it can be? Any help is appreciated.

~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Nathan Strutz]

Because it's open source, they can't put Adobe CF on there. He did make a
video (#21, http://blog.jumpbox.com/2009/09/28/deployment-ramp-ups/) on
installing a CFML app into Railo into Tomcat on a JumpBox VM. A few quick
steps and he gets the whole thing running. You're right though, it's a
shame, but I asked him about it and he said there just hadn't been enough
interest in a Railo VM. If a few more people ask for it, and would actually
pay for it the service, he would probably put a supported VM with Railo up,
probably within a couple days.

nathan strutz
[http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Shame CF is not listed
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:str...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2011 18:07
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
>
>
> Mission already accomplished by a friend and former CFUG manager:
>
> http://www.jumpbox.com/
>
> 
> nathan strutz
> [http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Bryan Stevenson <
> br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Great idea.just setup a base VMcopy the virtual disks (one per
> > language)then setup each as needed
> >
> > On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 17:51 +, Dominic Watson wrote:
> >
> > > Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
> > > encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
> > > language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations
> (me
> > > being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for
> > learning
> > > would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up
> > the
> > > VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just
> scrap
> > > the VM and start over.
> > >
> > > Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p
> > >
> > > On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
> > > > only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
> > > > spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
> > > > installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
> > > > source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
> > > > didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
> > > > find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
> > > > have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
> > > > language development has occurred on Linux.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Wil Genovese]

Well, the two minute intro video listed ColdFusion.  However, I suspect there 
may be licensing issues.

It would be nice if the Railo folks worked with Jumpbox to provide a Railo 
JumpBox. Sean? hint? hint? :-)


Wil Genovese
Sr. Web Application Developer/
Systems Administrator

Wil Genovese Consulting

wilg...@trunkful.com
www.trunkful.com

On Jan 13, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Russ Michaels wrote:

> 
> Shame CF is not listed
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:str...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: 13 January 2011 18:07
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
> 
> 
> Mission already accomplished by a friend and former CFUG manager:
> 
> http://www.jumpbox.com/
> 
> 
> nathan strutz
> [http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Bryan Stevenson <
> br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Great idea.just setup a base VMcopy the virtual disks (one per
>> language)then setup each as needed
>> 
>> On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 17:51 +, Dominic Watson wrote:
>> 
>>> Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
>>> encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
>>> language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations
> (me
>>> being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for
>> learning
>>> would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up
>> the
>>> VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just
> scrap
>>> the VM and start over.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p
>>> 
>>> On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield  wrote:
>>> 
 pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
 only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
 spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
 installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
 source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
 didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
 find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
 have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
 language development has occurred on Linux.
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

~|
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Issues with session variables

[Maneesha Aggarwal]

We have an issue with early timeout using session and client variables. We are 
using ColdFusion 5. We have set up sessiontimeout for 2 hours in CFAPPLICATION 
as well as in CF Admin (maximum timeout and default timeout). But Session 
variables expire in approximately 45 sec. The same behavior is with client 
variables.

Do you have any idea what it can be? Any help is appreciated.
Thanks. 


~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Roger Austin  wrote:
> I am using the Prag Prog approach and learning one language a year or at least
> targeting one. Get proficient rather than just hit to highlights. This year,
> I am working on clojure and getting better at javascript/jquery/whatever. I
> am also learning .NET languages since I can use those in my work life.

This is a reasonable approach too - and one I've employed for a long
time (with breaks). 2008 was my Groovy year (I used it in production),
2009 was my Scala year (it's in production now), 2010 was my Clojure
year (hopefully going to production in the next couple of months). Not
sure what 2011 will bring. I may continue to focus on Clojure and
Scala to get more proficient in those before I pick up another
language. Previous years have covered Haskell and Erlang - but not
enough to get code in production - with brief looks at Ruby, Python
and other languages in years before that.

Part of the difficulty is that it's hard to get proficient without
being able to do production-ready projects in those languages - and
that's a luxury that most of us don't get.

> I don't have anything against the 7 languages book. The question in my mind
> is whether it is the best use of someones time. If you are like me, I have
> very little spare time so I want to maximize the value of what I am learning.

The main benefit of the 7 languages book is "thinking different"
rather than proficiency. Prolog, Io and Haskell are languages that
almost no one gets to use in production yet they are so fundamentally
different from mainstream languages that you learn "new thinking"
which helps you look at your day-to-day problems in new, different and
refreshing ways. One of the observations that Tate makes in the book
is that he didn't really get JavaScript until he learned Io (it's a
prototype-based language).

> It makes sense to me to decide what languages would be the best for my
> long term career and dive into those. The use of the 7 languages book could
> be a start, but I wouldn't say you know how to code afterward.

Right. 7 languages alone won't teach you to use these languages for
your career - but that's not the intent.

Given the rise of so many new languages recently, long term I think
folks need to be polyglots. In the medium term, looking purely at
employability, I think learning Java and / or C# is a safe move.
Python seems to be a good bet in the scripting world. Perhaps PHP (if
you really want to be a low paid scripter :) But you won't learn as
much from those languages, in terms of techniques and problem solving,
as you will from stuff like Haskell, Io and Prolog.
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

~|
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RE: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Russ Michaels]

Shame CF is not listed

-Original Message-
From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:str...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 January 2011 18:07
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?


Mission already accomplished by a friend and former CFUG manager:

http://www.jumpbox.com/


nathan strutz
[http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Bryan Stevenson <
br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:

>
> Great idea.just setup a base VMcopy the virtual disks (one per
> language)then setup each as needed
>
> On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 17:51 +, Dominic Watson wrote:
>
> > Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
> > encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
> > language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations
(me
> > being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for
> learning
> > would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up
> the
> > VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just
scrap
> > the VM and start over.
> >
> > Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p
> >
> > On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield  wrote:
> >
> > > pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
> > > only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
> > > spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
> > > installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
> > > source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
> > > didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
> > > find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
> > > have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
> > > language development has occurred on Linux.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 



~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Dominic Watson
 wrote:
> Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
> encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
> language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations (me
> being the noob).

All the languages in the book are simple command line tools. They are
not "services" that run on your machine.

Most of the languages in the book have what's called a REPL - Read
Eval Print Loop - so you install the language compiler / interpreter
and then just run a command in a shell window and start typing your
code.

For complex code, write it in your favorite editor and save it, then
at the command line just run a command to execute that file.

When you're not running a particular language's code, there's no
memory or CPU overhead.
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

~|
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RE: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Roger Austin]

 Will Swain  wrote: 
> For those who have run through this book, how much time at a minimum did
> they find they needed to spend on each language? 

I would totally agree that learning new languages is an essential part of 
being a professional developer (if that is what someone wants to be.) There 
is nothing wrong with being a CF developer other than it puts your career 
in a bind if CF goes down the tubes.

I don't have anything against the 7 languages book. The question in my mind 
is whether it is the best use of someones time. If you are like me, I have 
very little spare time so I want to maximize the value of what I am learning. 
It makes sense to me to decide what languages would be the best for my
long term career and dive into those. The use of the 7 languages book could 
be a start, but I wouldn't say you know how to code afterward.

I am using the Prag Prog approach and learning one language a year or at least 
targeting one. Get proficient rather than just hit to highlights. This year, 
I am working on clojure and getting better at javascript/jquery/whatever. I 
am also learning .NET languages since I can use those in my work life.

Sorry for the stream of conscientiousness. Enjoy learning, Roger
--
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-austin/8/a4/60
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/RogerTheGeek
Blog: http://rogerthegeek.wordpress.com/
http://www.misshunt.com/ Home of the Clean/Dirty Magnet


~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Wil Genovese]

I run VMWare Fusion and do this all the time. I can setup experimental servers 
and trials for most anything.  I also have an Ubuntu Desktop VM just for fun 
because sometimes my Mac isn't Linux enough.  I have about 6 or 7 base VM 
images that I work with.  Plus you can always create snapshots of a setup so 
you can go back to a known state and try again.

VM is a great way to do development experiments.

I also just bought the 7 languages in 7 days book. But for me it might take a 
bit longer. I have sooo much work to do.  Plus, I bought the PDF version and 
found I can forget I have it cuz it's buried in my computer somewhere. A 
physical book can always stare me in the face from my desk.



Wil Genovese
Sr. Web Application Developer/
Systems Administrator

Wil Genovese Consulting

wilg...@trunkful.com
www.trunkful.com

On Jan 13, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Bryan Stevenson wrote:

> 
> Great idea.just setup a base VMcopy the virtual disks (one per
> language)then setup each as needed
> 
> On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 17:51 +, Dominic Watson wrote:
> 
>> Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
>> encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
>> language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations (me
>> being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for learning
>> would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up the
>> VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just scrap
>> the VM and start over.
>> 
>> Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p
>> 
>> On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield  wrote:
>> 
>>> pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
>>> only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
>>> spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
>>> installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
>>> source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
>>> didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
>>> find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
>>> have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
>>> language development has occurred on Linux.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Nathan Strutz]

Mission already accomplished by a friend and former CFUG manager:

http://www.jumpbox.com/


nathan strutz
[http://www.dopefly.com/] [http://hi.im/nathanstrutz]


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Bryan Stevenson <
br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:

>
> Great idea.just setup a base VMcopy the virtual disks (one per
> language)then setup each as needed
>
> On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 17:51 +, Dominic Watson wrote:
>
> > Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
> > encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
> > language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations (me
> > being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for
> learning
> > would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up
> the
> > VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just scrap
> > the VM and start over.
> >
> > Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p
> >
> > On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield  wrote:
> >
> > > pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
> > > only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
> > > spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
> > > installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
> > > source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
> > > didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
> > > find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
> > > have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
> > > language development has occurred on Linux.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Bryan Stevenson]

Great idea.just setup a base VMcopy the virtual disks (one per
language)then setup each as needed

On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 17:51 +, Dominic Watson wrote:

> Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
> encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
> language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations (me
> being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for learning
> would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up the
> VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just scrap
> the VM and start over.
> 
> Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p
> 
> On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield  wrote:
> 
> > pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
> > only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
> > spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
> > installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
> > source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
> > didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
> > find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
> > have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
> > language development has occurred on Linux.
> >
> 
> 
> 

~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Raymond Camden]

Most languages won't be a service. CF is a language + a platform.
Stuff like Perl, Ruby, etc, would be just a set of files to let you
run stuff. Much like Java by itself isn't a service.


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Dominic Watson
 wrote:
>
> Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
> encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
> language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations (me
> being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for learning
> would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up the
> VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just scrap
> the VM and start over.
>

~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Dominic Watson]

Just a thought: I bought the book and haven't yet started it. Something
encouraging my procrastination is the horrid thought of having various
language server services setup on my machine with noob configurations (me
being the noob). It struck me that using some sort of Linux VM for learning
would be beneficial (perhaps a separate clean VM per language), boot up the
VM, get the language configs in a mess and not worry about it, just scrap
the VM and start over.

Perhaps that's me being a little Lady Macbeth like though :p

On 13 January 2011 17:43, Sean Corfield  wrote:

> pect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
> only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
> spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
> installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
> source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
> didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
> find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
> have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
> language development has occurred on Linux.
>


~|
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Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 6:58 AM, Will Swain  wrote:
> For those who have run through this book, how much time at a minimum did
> they find they needed to spend on each language?

Ben Nadel gave an indication of how long most of the homework
exercises have taken him in his blog posts... Some were quick, some
exercises took him four or five hours. Depending on how quickly you
grok the concepts it may take you more or less time. I limited myself
to 2-3 hours per evening as I worked thru the book and mostly got thru
a 'day' each evening (each 'day' has three or four exercises and each
language has three 'days' associated with it). I typically tackled one
language a week, depending on my schedule.

Expect to have to spend time on Google with each language. Tate gives
only brief notes on where to find the installers and you'll need to
spend time on each language's site figuring out how to get it
installed and running. For Io, I ended up having to build it from
source from an older releases because the latest downloads simply
didn't work for me on Mac OS X (they worked on Ubuntu tho'). You'll
find most of the language sites are *nix-centric so you'll probably
have an easier time on Mac / Linux than Windows - most open source
language development has occurred on Linux.

Caveat: only Io was completely new to me (and it caused me the most
pain). Ruby was fairly new but I found it very easy and got thru that
in just two evenings. I currently program in Scala and Clojure (but
the book material and the exercises are still interesting /
challenging) and I've done a fair bit of Prolog (a long time ago).
I've also played with Haskell (quite a bit) and Erlang (a little)
before.
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Accessing Visual Fox Pro

[Duane Boudreau]

I am working on a project that connects to an ERP system running Visual Fox Pro 
as its backend.

Ideally I would like to connect SQL Server to the VFP database and use SQL 
Server as the interface, like you can with Access. Does anyone know if that's 
possible? Good idea or suicidal?

Thanks,
Duane


~|
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Re: Hosting Multiple CF websites on EC2 Windows Server 2008 and IIS 7

[Justin Scott]

Within the IIS settings, for each site you can edit the "Bindings" and
specify which hostnames belong to which sites and IIS will sort out
the requests as they come in.  For example, you might have your IP on
port 80 for one site bound to both 'example.com' and 'www.example.com'
and have the same IP and port bound to 'example2.com' and
'www.example2.com' for a different site entry.

The exception is when an SSL certificate is in use.  If memory serves,
IIS still requires a dedicated IP address for each certificate binding
(because the SSL connection is set up before the HTTP request with the
hostname comes in).


-Justin Scott


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Richard  Steele  wrote:
>
> Has anyone been successful in setting up multiple CF websites with separate 
> domains on an amazon EC2 windows server 2008 machine? I can add multiple 
> websites in IIS but since there is only one elastic IP address from Amazon, 
> I'm not sure how to route the traffic from each domain to their respective 
> IIS home directory. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

~|
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Re: CMS for CF

[John M Bliss]

http://www.getmura.com
http://www.farcrycore.org
http://www.riaforge.org/index.cfm?event=page.search#cms_catid=1


On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM,  wrote:

>
> I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
> Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: CMS for CF

[Scott Slone]

Myra
FarCry
Boomsocket

Check riaforge as well...

On Jan 13, 2011, at 8:37 AM,  wrote:

> 
> I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
> Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

~|
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Re: CMS for CF

[Jake Churchill]

Farcry:  http://www.farcrycore.org/

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM,  wrote:

>
> I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
> Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: CMS for CF

[Michael Grant]

I think Mura is free.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:37 AM,  wrote:

>
> I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
> Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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CMS for CF

[webmaster]

I'm looking for a good open source content management system for Cold
Fusion. Something like Joomla. Any suggestions out there?

 



~|
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Hosting Multiple CF websites on EC2 Windows Server 2008 and IIS 7

[Richard Steele]

Has anyone been successful in setting up multiple CF websites with separate 
domains on an amazon EC2 windows server 2008 machine? I can add multiple 
websites in IIS but since there is only one elastic IP address from Amazon, I'm 
not sure how to route the traffic from each domain to their respective IIS home 
directory. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

~|
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RE: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?

[Will Swain]

Got it for Christmas, but haven't had a chance to start it yet.

For those who have run through this book, how much time at a minimum did
they find they needed to spend on each language? 

w

-Original Message-
From: John M Bliss [mailto:bliss.j...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 January 2011 12:13
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?


> Why not join myself, Ben Nadel and many other CFers by purchasing "Seven
Languages in Seven Weeks" and working thru all the exercises?

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Languages-Weeks-Programming-Programmers/dp/19343
5659X/




~|
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RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?

[Mark A. Kruger]

Sorry... AMF, not AMA  

Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com



-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 8:50 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


No that would not be accurate.  Flash's animation engine is designed for
animation. It's smooth and slick and scales when you zoom or draw back
(vector graphic stuff).  Ajax animation is basically HTML smoke and mirrors
- good stuff and works well on modern computers but try calculating and
drawing a MACD or Bollinger bands with it (yikes!). The data transfer that
Flex uses under the hood is AMA - leaner and faster for larger data sets. We
have a chart with 2 panels and something like 40 data sets (up to 5 years of
data)... so lots of things loading in the background while we draw initial
plots.  

Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com



-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:ric...@whitestonemedia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:42 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


So basically, Flash's implementation of Ajax (generic
usage of the term) is faster than, say jQuery's?

Would that be accurate?


-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:41 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


Rick,

Yes we did... and yes it is the flash animation portion...

-Mark


Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com



-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:40 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


Mark,

Do you create your "financial visualizations" in Flex?
Is it the Flash part of the visualizations that performs
better than AJAX?

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:04 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


Rick,

I agree with you in large part with one exception. We do a lot of financial
visualizations that would simply gasp and die in Ajax - even if we could
find the proper libraries for them. And it would also be hard to duplicate
the animation, opacity etc. But for 95% of things I'm with you - the
Ajax/jQuery stack has revolutionized things like CRUD forms and data entry
on web pages.

-Mark

Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com



-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:ric...@whitestonemedia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:45 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


I've spent the past year or two incorporating jQuery
into my programming, mainly the AJAX functionality.
Everything I do (perhaps too much!) uses AJAX.  It's just
become my paradigm for getting info from and onto pages,
working in conjunction with cfc functionality.

I mention this as I wondered about Flex, based on the
comment a few moments ago.  I checked out a few examples
of Flex demos and didn't see anything, on a cursory
look, that I couldn't easily do (or currently do) in jQuery.

Based on the Adobe site's comments, I would have to learn
MXML, ActionScript 3.0, and utilize Flash to build
rich-interface applications.

I can do that now with CF, CSS, and jQuery (totally free
and being developed for cross-platform mobile devices).  (Of course,
Flash adds more interface graphics capabilities...but Flash
is another world unto itself.)

Flex, to me, seems to be a rather "involved" endeavor.

I'm also moving rapidly (preparing, at least) into mobile
development, as I see that as a field about to really explode
with possibility for developers.  I get to return to my current
clients and say "you really need a mobile version of your website,"
and still use just CF, CSS, and jQuery to build mobile sites.

But, I come to this entire conversation as an independent
developer, not as someone looking to be hired by another company,
either for project work or for a part-time or full-time position.
So, the perspective is different than someone seeking to build
up a resume.

Just my .02 ...

Rick













~|
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RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?

[Mark A. Kruger]

No that would not be accurate.  Flash's animation engine is designed for
animation. It's smooth and slick and scales when you zoom or draw back
(vector graphic stuff).  Ajax animation is basically HTML smoke and mirrors
- good stuff and works well on modern computers but try calculating and
drawing a MACD or Bollinger bands with it (yikes!). The data transfer that
Flex uses under the hood is AMA - leaner and faster for larger data sets. We
have a chart with 2 panels and something like 40 data sets (up to 5 years of
data)... so lots of things loading in the background while we draw initial
plots.  

Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com



-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:ric...@whitestonemedia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:42 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


So basically, Flash's implementation of Ajax (generic
usage of the term) is faster than, say jQuery's?

Would that be accurate?


-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:41 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


Rick,

Yes we did... and yes it is the flash animation portion...

-Mark


Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com



-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:40 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


Mark,

Do you create your "financial visualizations" in Flex?
Is it the Flash part of the visualizations that performs
better than AJAX?

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:04 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


Rick,

I agree with you in large part with one exception. We do a lot of financial
visualizations that would simply gasp and die in Ajax - even if we could
find the proper libraries for them. And it would also be hard to duplicate
the animation, opacity etc. But for 95% of things I'm with you - the
Ajax/jQuery stack has revolutionized things like CRUD forms and data entry
on web pages.

-Mark

Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com



-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:ric...@whitestonemedia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:45 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?


I've spent the past year or two incorporating jQuery
into my programming, mainly the AJAX functionality.
Everything I do (perhaps too much!) uses AJAX.  It's just
become my paradigm for getting info from and onto pages,
working in conjunction with cfc functionality.

I mention this as I wondered about Flex, based on the
comment a few moments ago.  I checked out a few examples
of Flex demos and didn't see anything, on a cursory
look, that I couldn't easily do (or currently do) in jQuery.

Based on the Adobe site's comments, I would have to learn
MXML, ActionScript 3.0, and utilize Flash to build
rich-interface applications.

I can do that now with CF, CSS, and jQuery (totally free
and being developed for cross-platform mobile devices).  (Of course,
Flash adds more interface graphics capabilities...but Flash
is another world unto itself.)

Flex, to me, seems to be a rather "involved" endeavor.

I'm also moving rapidly (preparing, at least) into mobile
development, as I see that as a field about to really explode
with possibility for developers.  I get to return to my current
clients and say "you really need a mobile version of your website,"
and still use just CF, CSS, and jQuery to build mobile sites.

But, I come to this entire conversation as an independent
developer, not as someone looking to be hired by another company,
either for project work or for a part-time or full-time position.
So, the perspective is different than someone seeking to build
up a resume.

Just my .02 ...

Rick











~|
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Re: US Government moving to Drupal?

[Matthew Williams]

I've been working with .GOV as a shared CF server admin since the 
beginning of '06 for EPA, and the impression I've always been given is 
that our branch is only interested in enterprise solutions.  Even the 
FOSS apps that are being run are the Enterprise variants (Solaris, RHEL, 
etc).  If there's no large vendor behind supporting the product, no one 
wants to "own" the project of putting it in place and having a potential 
failure.  In the last year it's begun to change with the inclusion of 
PHP (but only cake-php CMS), and some facebook integration apps, but it 
still remains pretty much an enterprise only shop.  Not that I'm going 
to complain, I hope that they keep CF around for at least another 5-10 
year ;).


Matthew Williams
Geodesic GraFX
www.geodesicgrafx.com/blog

~|
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Re: any good Model-Glue Gesture tutorials?

[Greg Morphis]

No :( I didn't even see that! I saw the training and it begun with
installation, I thought I was good. I'll read the quickstart.. any
other things I can read to get up to speed? Thanks Ray!

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Raymond Camden  wrote:
>
> Did you try the quick start?
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:17 AM, Greg Morphis  wrote:
>>
>> I really like the plant-o-matic tutorial but it's already given to
>> you, and the code is "replace this with this".. do reason why. Guess
>> I'm looking for a dummy's guide, a beginner's guide. I saw the
>> tutorial on your site but it was for Unity. I'm starting a large
>> project and instead of applying my own faux-mvc ideas I'd like to use
>> a framework. It's be a good learning experiment and I just started the
>> project so it's not like I'm moving 1000 files, just a few.
>
> 

~|
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Re: any good Model-Glue Gesture tutorials?

[Raymond Camden]

Did you try the quick start?

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:17 AM, Greg Morphis  wrote:
>
> I really like the plant-o-matic tutorial but it's already given to
> you, and the code is "replace this with this".. do reason why. Guess
> I'm looking for a dummy's guide, a beginner's guide. I saw the
> tutorial on your site but it was for Unity. I'm starting a large
> project and instead of applying my own faux-mvc ideas I'd like to use
> a framework. It's be a good learning experiment and I just started the
> project so it's not like I'm moving 1000 files, just a few.

~|
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