Re: New MM.com
On Thursday, Mar 6, 2003, at 02:50 US/Pacific, Erika L. Walker-Arnold wrote: | We have a lot of CGI scripts so it would be quit a | bit of work to rewrite them all - with all their back end | machinery - in ColdFusion. We'll probably get to it in time. ColdFusion is sold as a QUICK WAY TO BRING YOUR DYNAMIC APPS TO LIFE So why can't they all be rewritten in a week? We have over 300 Perl CGIs on the site so, no, it can't be done in a week :) But we'll get there eventually. Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription Find out more: http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
On Thursday, Mar 6, 2003, at 17:08 US/Pacific, Barney Boisvert wrote: I completely agree with you Bryan. I was very surprised that MM left any HTML in the site at all, and think that generated most of the problems. Interesting. We get criticized for using too much Flash as well as for not using enough Flash! :) think part of the motivation was that they have some standard page layouts that wouldn't work in a pure flash environment. Part of the 'problem' is that we have 30,000 static pages and many of them are very large documents with multiple images and movies embedded in them. Macromedia has always promoted HTML for certain types of documents. The right tool for the right job. We actually attempted an All Flash All The Time model early on in Dylan65 and prototyped a support center entirely in Flash with tech notes displayed in Flash. There were usability problems with it that confirmed we were right to plan on an HTML / Flash hybrid site. A complete restructuring would have been enormously time intensive, and probably not economical. Yes, we changed /desdev to /devnet and that was a big deal. Several of us were pushing to change /software to /products to match other sites but that was considered too big a change. I think MM is pushing the right direction with the new site, but it's going to get a lot of criticism (including mine) and have a lot of problems because it didn't go the full monty. I assure you that attempting to show all the tech notes and press releases in Flash would have drawn far more criticism... :) However, we don't know what went into the back-end of the site, and I think that's important. You will - we are planning a series of articles about it. I guarentee that they had a lot of problems with CFCs Well, we started developing with CFCs prior to the first alpha release so we did experience a lot of flux in that area. However, CFCs are at the core of our architecture and we are, generally, very happy with them. See my blog for just how much we rely on them: http://www.corfield.org/blog/archives/2003_03.html#000254 Flash Remoting Yes, we've learned a lot about this too. Again, see my blog for just how central it is to our new site. Again, we'll write articles on the pros and cons. the end result is going to be a set of kick-ass updaters for all products involved in their site redux here in a couple months. I probably shouldn't say it but there are fixes in Updater 3 that are a direct result of my team's experience with the products and which will improve everyone's experience with the products. I've seen the draft release notes for Updater 3 and I'm really stoked about the fixes and enhancements! Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription Find out more: http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
On Thursday, Mar 6, 2003, at 16:07 US/Pacific, Chris Kief wrote: I was speculating with a colleague that the poor performance that some people were seeing had to do with the number of files being downloaded as well as the fact that the Flash player needs to load and parse the 9 xml files (although the player's xml handling is greatly improved in the latest versions). Speed of the client machine probably has a direct impact on the player's ability to do this efficiently and quickly. I'll be curious to see if this structure changes in the future. I'm also anxious to read Sean Corfield's articles on the architectural decisions behind the site. Perhaps not in my articles but, yes, it will be discussed in articles on DevNet written by my colleagues. We did a lot of experimentation with downloads and performance and the current architecture produces the most responsive site so far. Loading a single swf ties up the browser totally until it is fully downloaded. Loading a shell swf that in turn loads multiple swfs creates a much more interactive experience and lets you interact with the 'movie' before it has fully loaded (i.e., before all the movies have loaded). I'm hoping that MM publishes something along the lines of here's what we decided to do first and then down the line here's what we found didn't work and here's what we did to improve things. RIAs are pretty much uncharted territory and I'm very interested in hearing their experiences in building and tuning the site. Yes, we had our ups and downs and we will 'tell all'. We'll explain why the site still has 30,000 static pages, why the site is not a single Flash movie, why there are still Perl CGIs on the site, why we still have separate partners and training registration systems running on old versions of CF and Spectra... And we'll also talk about the overwhelming number of successes that we've had along the way and why the new website is actually rather good. Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription Find out more: http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
However, we don't know what went into the back-end of the site, and I think that's important. You will - we are planning a series of articles about it. real tech details of some of the niftier techniques would be great as would distributing some of the niftier reusable elements of the flash apps. why? after months of procrastinating we've started on our first ones for some existing intranet apps but we kinda got floored by what mm's site is showing. we hope the folks we're doing this for don't see mm's site or they might expect the same from us ;-) I probably shouldn't say it but there are fixes in Updater 3 that are a nda-thought police are on their way. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Chris Kief wrote: Overall, bandwidth use is not excessive (at least for my standards), but the speed is not good either. Part of that appears to be due to the high number of requests, part of that is that some requests take long on the server, and part of that is probably that a Duron 800 is apparently not fast enough anymore. Not sure if you checked out the individual files but the homepage is broken up into multiple swf and xml documents (I show 22 swf and 9 xml). To be complete, there are also 1 html, 2 css, 3 js, and 11 gifs for a total of 48 files and 251KB. That is close enough with my 52 requests. The main difference is that I count 30 swf and only 2 gif. One thing I noticed is that about 90 KB of the initial load is XML/CSS/JS/HTML. I bet that if HTTP compression were enabled for the larger files the bandwidth use for the initial load would drop below quite a bit. I was speculating with a colleague that the poor performance that some people were seeing had to do with the number of files being downloaded as well as the fact that the Flash player needs to load and parse the 9 xml files (although the player's xml handling is greatly improved in the latest versions). Speed of the client machine probably has a direct impact on the player's ability to do this efficiently and quickly. CPU load does not hit 100%, so if that is the case the Flashplayer needs more optimization. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
One thing I noticed is that about 90 KB of the initial load is XML/CSS/JS/HTML. I bet that if HTTP compression were enabled for the larger files the bandwidth use for the initial load would drop below quite a bit. I've always avoided HTML compression because of bugs in various browsers (such as IE handing the compressed data off to plugins such as Flash instead of the uncompressed data). Is this no longer the case? Are people using HTML compression in production environments successfully? Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Benjamin S. Rogers wrote: I've always avoided HTML compression because of bugs in various browsers (such as IE handing the compressed data off to plugins such as Flash instead of the uncompressed data). Is this no longer the case? Are people using HTML compression in production environments successfully? I have never used HTTP compression together with Flash, but for normal pages it is just fine. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Fyi, It should work fine with Flash. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 11:02 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com Benjamin S. Rogers wrote: I've always avoided HTML compression because of bugs in various browsers (such as IE handing the compressed data off to plugins such as Flash instead of the uncompressed data). Is this no longer the case? Are people using HTML compression in production environments successfully? I have never used HTTP compression together with Flash, but for normal pages it is just fine. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Mike Chambers wrote: From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] Benjamin S. Rogers wrote: I've always avoided HTML compression because of bugs in various browsers (such as IE handing the compressed data off to plugins such as Flash instead of the uncompressed data). Is this no longer the case? Are people using HTML compression in production environments successfully? I have never used HTTP compression together with Flash, but for normal pages it is just fine. Fyi, It should work fine with Flash. Then please consider this an enhancement request for the MM website ;-) Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
| From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | We have a lot of CGI scripts so it would be quit a | bit of work to rewrite them all - with all their back end | machinery - in ColdFusion. We'll probably get to it in time. But, but, but ColdFusion is sold as a QUICK WAY TO BRING YOUR DYNAMIC APPS TO LIFE ;) So why can't they all be rewritten in a week? ;) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Out of curiosity, what's the percentage using a Gecko based browser (which btw works wonderfully)? -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:07:52 PM, you wrote: MC .4% of users who visit our site use Opera. MC Regardless, we are working with Opera to resolve the issue. MC mike chambers MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] MC - Original Message - MC From: Willy Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] MC To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] MC Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:52 AM MC Subject: Re: New MM.com I appreciate that you guys are getting hammered here. I should have thought you'd have expected it. I also hear you getting defensive, and I can really understand that, too. I've been there. That not withstanding, what you've essentially said here is this: Whatever percentage the Opera market is, we're comfortable abandoning them, or forcing them to launch a Microsoft product that they'd really rather not. My guess is that your typical Opera user is a developer. Is this really an audience you're comfortable with orphaning? For my part, when I develop a site, I'm constantly testing it in several versions of Explorer, Communicator and Opera. Who QA-ed your new site, anyway? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 09:31AM One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. MC ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Yep, I must say I do like the new NN Gecko based ones...the others were crap but the new ones are spot on! -Original Message- From: jon hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 March 2003 14:14 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Out of curiosity, what's the percentage using a Gecko based browser (which btw works wonderfully)? -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:07:52 PM, you wrote: MC .4% of users who visit our site use Opera. MC Regardless, we are working with Opera to resolve the issue. MC mike chambers MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] MC - Original Message - MC From: Willy Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] MC To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] MC Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:52 AM MC Subject: Re: New MM.com I appreciate that you guys are getting hammered here. I should have thought you'd have expected it. I also hear you getting defensive, and I can really understand that, too. I've been there. That not withstanding, what you've essentially said here is this: Whatever percentage the Opera market is, we're comfortable abandoning them, or forcing them to launch a Microsoft product that they'd really rather not. My guess is that your typical Opera user is a developer. Is this really an audience you're comfortable with orphaning? For my part, when I develop a site, I'm constantly testing it in several versions of Explorer, Communicator and Opera. Who QA-ed your new site, anyway? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 09:31AM One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. MC ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
On Wednesday 05 Mar 2003 17:37 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Yup, but we use Jreport :-) -- Tom C Land of the free, home of the brave... you have to be brave to live there and enjoy the freedoms ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Paul Hastings wrote: i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. very well done. I just ran some totally unscientific tests on the Macromedia site. Duron 800, IE 6, NT 4, Flash 6.0.79.0 100 Mbps 3 time average Initial load is 278523 bytes Initial load is 52 request (8 or 9 cached). Initial load time is 11 seconds. ICMP RTT = 150 ms. There were never more as 2 HTTP connections open to the site, so that means 22 requests per connection. With a round trip time of 150 ms, I think this translates directly to 3.3 seconds (in reality you need to add for TCP SYN/ACK). 10 or more requests take more as half a second, of which 2 take more as 1 second (including the initial request for / which is probably due to the syn/ack). On subsequent requests, the number of requests goes down to about 30, the cache hit ratio goes up to over 50% and pages load in an acceptable time (and use as less as 30 KB for each page). The only problem is with the Downloads page. Times are totally inconsistent and on average much longer as the rest of the site. And the downloads page is the page I used for previous benchmarks :-( Overall, bandwidth use is not excessive (at least for my standards), but the speed is not good either. Part of that appears to be due to the high number of requests, part of that is that some requests take long on the server, and part of that is probably that a Duron 800 is apparently not fast enough anymore. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Overall, bandwidth use is not excessive (at least for my standards), but the speed is not good either. Part of that appears to be due to the high number of requests, part of that is that some requests take long on the server, and part of that is probably that a Duron 800 is apparently not fast enough anymore. Not sure if you checked out the individual files but the homepage is broken up into multiple swf and xml documents (I show 22 swf and 9 xml). To be complete, there are also 1 html, 2 css, 3 js, and 11 gifs for a total of 48 files and 251KB. I was speculating with a colleague that the poor performance that some people were seeing had to do with the number of files being downloaded as well as the fact that the Flash player needs to load and parse the 9 xml files (although the player's xml handling is greatly improved in the latest versions). Speed of the client machine probably has a direct impact on the player's ability to do this efficiently and quickly. I'll be curious to see if this structure changes in the future. I'm also anxious to read Sean Corfield's articles on the architectural decisions behind the site. I'm hoping that MM publishes something along the lines of here's what we decided to do first and then down the line here's what we found didn't work and here's what we did to improve things. RIAs are pretty much uncharted territory and I'm very interested in hearing their experiences in building and tuning the site. chris ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
I've heard a lot of slagging of RIAs and MM's new usage of RIAs. I think it's VERY important to differentiate between 2 types of RIAs. Type 1 - The Hybrid This is what MM has just released. It's a mix of traditional web technologies (HTML,JavaScript, CSS, etc.). Type 2 - Pure Flash This is what I consider to be a true RIA. It runs full screen (or full browser) and all naviagtion etc. is handled in Flash. I have only been building the type 2 variety and have not seen any of the slowness issues folks are describing on the new MM site. So perhaps there is something to Chris's comment about having to load 48 files for MMs type 1 RIA vs. loading 1 SWF for what I call type 2. IMHO the type 2 variety is where it's at. my 2 cents CDN Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Chris Kief [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: RE: New MM.com Overall, bandwidth use is not excessive (at least for my standards), but the speed is not good either. Part of that appears to be due to the high number of requests, part of that is that some requests take long on the server, and part of that is probably that a Duron 800 is apparently not fast enough anymore. Not sure if you checked out the individual files but the homepage is broken up into multiple swf and xml documents (I show 22 swf and 9 xml). To be complete, there are also 1 html, 2 css, 3 js, and 11 gifs for a total of 48 files and 251KB. I was speculating with a colleague that the poor performance that some people were seeing had to do with the number of files being downloaded as well as the fact that the Flash player needs to load and parse the 9 xml files (although the player's xml handling is greatly improved in the latest versions). Speed of the client machine probably has a direct impact on the player's ability to do this efficiently and quickly. I'll be curious to see if this structure changes in the future. I'm also anxious to read Sean Corfield's articles on the architectural decisions behind the site. I'm hoping that MM publishes something along the lines of here's what we decided to do first and then down the line here's what we found didn't work and here's what we did to improve things. RIAs are pretty much uncharted territory and I'm very interested in hearing their experiences in building and tuning the site. chris ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Chris wrote I'm hoping that MM publishes something along the lines of here's what we decided to do first and then down the line here's what we found didn't work and here's what we did to improve things. RIAs are pretty much uncharted territory and I'm very interested in hearing their experiences in building and tuning the site. The fact that MM is going boldly etc. is worth re-emphasizing. Its obviously dangerous territory and it'd help the community and RIA's in general big-time if a candid blow-by-blow along the lines of what Chris describes gets published. --- Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com --- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
I completely agree with you Bryan. I was very surprised that MM left any HTML in the site at all, and think that generated most of the problems. I think part of the motivation was that they have some standard page layouts that wouldn't work in a pure flash environment. Sure, this was a 'complete' rewrite of the site, but there is a lot that hasn't changed (at least it seems to me). MM.com is a HUGE app. Really a bunch of apps, most pretty large in their own right. A complete restructuring would have been enormously time intensive, and probably not economical. Any way you cut it, Flash is a lot more expensive to develop than HTML. Because of that expence, it's going to be a long time before HTML is gone from most large sites. This is not unlike all the legacy systems that are currently running companies all over the world today. It's not because people like running old, outdated stuff, it's because they can't afford to change it all. My personal opinion is that if you have any flash, the entire site is flash, excepting perhaps a animated logo in the corner or such asthetic things. I've seen a lot of really good flash sites, but I've not seen many (if any) that used HTML-embeded Flash to a good end. Even the old MM site was quite annoying to me, having to wait for the flash on the HTML pages all the time. I think MM is pushing the right direction with the new site, but it's going to get a lot of criticism (including mine) and have a lot of problems because it didn't go the full monty. However, we don't know what went into the back-end of the site, and I think that's important. I guarentee that they had a lot of problems with CFCs, Flash Remoting, and whatever else, and the end result is going to be a set of kick-ass updaters for all products involved in their site redux here in a couple months. barneyb -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com I've heard a lot of slagging of RIAs and MM's new usage of RIAs. I think it's VERY important to differentiate between 2 types of RIAs. Type 1 - The Hybrid This is what MM has just released. It's a mix of traditional web technologies (HTML,JavaScript, CSS, etc.). Type 2 - Pure Flash This is what I consider to be a true RIA. It runs full screen (or full browser) and all naviagtion etc. is handled in Flash. I have only been building the type 2 variety and have not seen any of the slowness issues folks are describing on the new MM site. So perhaps there is something to Chris's comment about having to load 48 files for MMs type 1 RIA vs. loading 1 SWF for what I call type 2. IMHO the type 2 variety is where it's at. my 2 cents CDN Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Chris Kief [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: RE: New MM.com Overall, bandwidth use is not excessive (at least for my standards), but the speed is not good either. Part of that appears to be due to the high number of requests, part of that is that some requests take long on the server, and part of that is probably that a Duron 800 is apparently not fast enough anymore. Not sure if you checked out the individual files but the homepage is broken up into multiple swf and xml documents (I show 22 swf and 9 xml). To be complete, there are also 1 html, 2 css, 3 js, and 11 gifs for a total of 48 files and 251KB. I was speculating with a colleague that the poor performance that some people were seeing had to do with the number of files being downloaded as well as the fact that the Flash player needs to load and parse the 9 xml files (although the player's xml handling is greatly improved in the latest versions). Speed of the client machine probably has a direct impact on the player's ability to do this efficiently and quickly. I'll be curious to see if this structure changes in the future. I'm also anxious to read Sean Corfield's articles on the architectural decisions behind the site. I'm hoping that MM publishes something along the lines of here's what we decided to do first and then down the line here's what we found didn't work and here's what we did to improve things. RIAs are pretty much uncharted territory and I'm very interested in hearing their experiences in building and tuning the site. chris ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm
RE: New MM.com
http://www.macromedia.com/bin/webfeedback.cgi Why is this not .cfm? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
LOL!!! Old Skool -- Bruce H. Beinert p.808-637-0727m.917-627-4035 Web Development and Consulting: http://www.siliconmaui.com Weblog: http://www.bruceandwende.com -Original Message- From: Everett, Al [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 2:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com http://www.macromedia.com/bin/webfeedback.cgi Why is this not .cfm? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
it must work good then :-) -Original Message- From: Bruce H. Beinert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 7:34 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com LOL!!! Old Skool -- Bruce H. Beinert p.808-637-0727m.917-627-4035 Web Development and Consulting: http://www.siliconmaui.com Weblog: http://www.bruceandwende.com -Original Message- From: Everett, Al [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 2:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com http://www.macromedia.com/bin/webfeedback.cgi Why is this not .cfm? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Paul Hastings wrote: i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. I don't know if there is some traffic shaping that allows only a limited number of connections/limited speed or if Flash gets all the components sequentially or something, but there are very few sites that take 4 seconds to load (yes, I am spoiled). CPU and the connection never max out on my end. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Congratulations to Sean and all the team. The new site is great. I like very much the new design and the way the site and the information are organized. One little simple detail that I enjoy, it remembers your latest selection in the home page. For example, if you have choosen Products ColdFusion MX and Solutions Developers, the next time you come, the home page will have them already selected (I suppose this is based on new Shared Objects capabilities). Very simple but efficient personalization... Ok, it is a little bit slow on my PIII 500... but I'm sure it will get better. As for the back/forward buttons in Flash, it seems to be pretty well handled by the 4 RIAs (home, exchange, membership and download). For the moment, it seems to be stable... I haven't seen any error pages... ColdFusionMX+FlashMX unleashed upon the masses! Bravo! Benoit Hediard www.benorama.com -Message d'origine- De : Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : mercredi 5 mars 2003 14:02 À : CF-Talk Objet : Re: New MM.com Paul Hastings wrote: i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. I don't know if there is some traffic shaping that allows only a limited number of connections/limited speed or if Flash gets all the components sequentially or something, but there are very few sites that take 4 seconds to load (yes, I am spoiled). CPU and the connection never max out on my end. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. -- Bill Wheatley Senior Database Developer Macromedia Advanced Coldfusion 5 Developer Ediets.com ICQ - 417645 Aim - Bill Ediets 954-360-9022 x159 - Original Message - From: Benoit Hediard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: RE: New MM.com Congratulations to Sean and all the team. The new site is great. I like very much the new design and the way the site and the information are organized. One little simple detail that I enjoy, it remembers your latest selection in the home page. For example, if you have choosen Products ColdFusion MX and Solutions Developers, the next time you come, the home page will have them already selected (I suppose this is based on new Shared Objects capabilities). Very simple but efficient personalization... Ok, it is a little bit slow on my PIII 500... but I'm sure it will get better. As for the back/forward buttons in Flash, it seems to be pretty well handled by the 4 RIAs (home, exchange, membership and download). For the moment, it seems to be stable... I haven't seen any error pages... ColdFusionMX+FlashMX unleashed upon the masses! Bravo! Benoit Hediard www.benorama.com -Message d'origine- De : Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : mercredi 5 mars 2003 14:02 À : CF-Talk Objet : Re: New MM.com Paul Hastings wrote: i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. I don't know if there is some traffic shaping that allows only a limited number of connections/limited speed or if Flash gets all the components sequentially or something, but there are very few sites that take 4 seconds to load (yes, I am spoiled). CPU and the connection never max out on my end. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Yeah, not to add fuel to the fire, but I can't see it at all in Opera 7. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 08:00AM AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. -- Bill Wheatley Senior Database Developer Macromedia Advanced Coldfusion 5 Developer Ediets.com ICQ - 417645 Aim - Bill Ediets 954-360-9022 x159 - Original Message - From: Benoit Hediard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: RE: New MM.com Congratulations to Sean and all the team. The new site is great. I like very much the new design and the way the site and the information are organized. One little simple detail that I enjoy, it remembers your latest selection in the home page. For example, if you have choosen Products ColdFusion MX and Solutions Developers, the next time you come, the home page will have them already selected (I suppose this is based on new Shared Objects capabilities). Very simple but efficient personalization... Ok, it is a little bit slow on my PIII 500... but I'm sure it will get better. As for the back/forward buttons in Flash, it seems to be pretty well handled by the 4 RIAs (home, exchange, membership and download). For the moment, it seems to be stable... I haven't seen any error pages... ColdFusionMX+FlashMX unleashed upon the masses! Bravo! Benoit Hediard www.benorama.com -Message d'origine- De : Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] EnvoyT : mercredi 5 mars 2003 14:02 + : CF-Talk Objet : Re: New MM.com Paul Hastings wrote: i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. I don't know if there is some traffic shaping that allows only a limited number of connections/limited speed or if Flash gets all the components sequentially or something, but there are very few sites that take 4 seconds to load (yes, I am spoiled). CPU and the connection never max out on my end. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Me neither... :-( Yves -Original Message- From: Willy Ray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 5, 2003 11:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Yeah, not to add fuel to the fire, but I can't see it at all in Opera 7. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 08:00AM AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. -- Bill Wheatley Senior Database Developer Macromedia Advanced Coldfusion 5 Developer Ediets.com ICQ - 417645 Aim - Bill Ediets 954-360-9022 x159 - Original Message - From: Benoit Hediard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: RE: New MM.com Congratulations to Sean and all the team. The new site is great. I like very much the new design and the way the site and the information are organized. One little simple detail that I enjoy, it remembers your latest selection in the home page. For example, if you have choosen Products ColdFusion MX and Solutions Developers, the next time you come, the home page will have them already selected (I suppose this is based on new Shared Objects capabilities). Very simple but efficient personalization... Ok, it is a little bit slow on my PIII 500... but I'm sure it will get better. As for the back/forward buttons in Flash, it seems to be pretty well handled by the 4 RIAs (home, exchange, membership and download). For the moment, it seems to be stable... I haven't seen any error pages... ColdFusionMX+FlashMX unleashed upon the masses! Bravo! Benoit Hediard www.benorama.com -Message d'origine- De : Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] EnvoyT : mercredi 5 mars 2003 14:02 + : CF-Talk Objet : Re: New MM.com Paul Hastings wrote: i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. I don't know if there is some traffic shaping that allows only a limited number of connections/limited speed or if Flash gets all the components sequentially or something, but there are very few sites that take 4 seconds to load (yes, I am spoiled). CPU and the connection never max out on my end. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
yea i'm opera 7.01 - Original Message - From: Willy Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:07 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com Yeah, not to add fuel to the fire, but I can't see it at all in Opera 7. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 08:00AM AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. -- Bill Wheatley Senior Database Developer Macromedia Advanced Coldfusion 5 Developer Ediets.com ICQ - 417645 Aim - Bill Ediets 954-360-9022 x159 - Original Message - From: Benoit Hediard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: RE: New MM.com Congratulations to Sean and all the team. The new site is great. I like very much the new design and the way the site and the information are organized. One little simple detail that I enjoy, it remembers your latest selection in the home page. For example, if you have choosen Products ColdFusion MX and Solutions Developers, the next time you come, the home page will have them already selected (I suppose this is based on new Shared Objects capabilities). Very simple but efficient personalization... Ok, it is a little bit slow on my PIII 500... but I'm sure it will get better. As for the back/forward buttons in Flash, it seems to be pretty well handled by the 4 RIAs (home, exchange, membership and download). For the moment, it seems to be stable... I haven't seen any error pages... ColdFusionMX+FlashMX unleashed upon the masses! Bravo! Benoit Hediard www.benorama.com -Message d'origine- De : Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] EnvoyT : mercredi 5 mars 2003 14:02 + : CF-Talk Objet : Re: New MM.com Paul Hastings wrote: i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. I don't know if there is some traffic shaping that allows only a limited number of connections/limited speed or if Flash gets all the components sequentially or something, but there are very few sites that take 4 seconds to load (yes, I am spoiled). CPU and the connection never max out on my end. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
I like the new site a lot. MM had to make a big MX statement and they've certainly done that. Congrats to everyone involved. Although, I am disappointed that it doesn't validate to w3c standards... http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=www.macromedia.com -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com Chris Kief wrote: After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:02:08 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. ... I agree. I really dislike the new site. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. I guess I missed the option to do this. Where is it? -- Chris Montgomery ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
I noticed on the product page that Homesite is referred to as The HTML hand-coding tool with a cult following Cult following? Stable, fast and easy-to-use now qualify for marginalized status? Man, this Kool-Aid is delicious! - Jim -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:17 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:02:08 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. ... I agree. I really dislike the new site. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. I guess I missed the option to do this. Where is it? -- Chris Montgomery ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Re: New MM.com
Buried under accessibility, unfortunately. Mike Wokasch ** Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:02:08 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. ... I agree. I really dislike the new site. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. I guess I missed the option to do this. Where is it? -- Chris Montgomery ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Re: New MM.com
And that matters why exactly? More to the point, it could also mean that the percentage could be higher. It's still not an excuse for it not working or validating. Mike Wokasch ** One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Would that be a reason why the 10% doesn't visit the site then? -s -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
I appreciate that you guys are getting hammered here. I should have thought you'd have expected it. I also hear you getting defensive, and I can really understand that, too. I've been there. That not withstanding, what you've essentially said here is this: Whatever percentage the Opera market is, we're comfortable abandoning them, or forcing them to launch a Microsoft product that they'd really rather not. My guess is that your typical Opera user is a developer. Is this really an audience you're comfortable with orphaning? For my part, when I develop a site, I'm constantly testing it in several versions of Explorer, Communicator and Opera. Who QA-ed your new site, anyway? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 09:31AM One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Yeah I saw that. I just figured Macromedia found out about my Kevin Lynch voodoo doll who wears a little t-shirt emblazoned with homesite rocks! -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 11:35:25 AM, you wrote: JC I noticed on the product page that Homesite is referred to as The HTML JC hand-coding tool with a cult following Cult following? Stable, fast and JC easy-to-use now qualify for marginalized status? Man, this Kool-Aid is JC delicious! JC - Jim JC -Original Message- JC From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] JC Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:17 AM JC To: CF-Talk JC Subject: Re: New MM.com JC Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:02:08 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. ... JC I agree. I really dislike the new site. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. JC I guess I missed the option to do this. Where is it? JC -- JC Chris Montgomery JC ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
I think the new site rocks. Sure it's got some issues, but it's a work in progress. I'm sure they'll take care of the usability issues post haste. For what it's worth, I think it's going to be a fabulous site. On the HomeSite issue - that's funny. If the product has a cult-like following, then why can't you buy it without having to buy Dreamweaver? I love HomeSite, I'd even agree with the cult-like following, but it's just funny that 4 months ago they were cramming DWMX down our throats as the next editor and HomeSite/Studio was being pushed aside. Now they've changed their tune - but only in their marketing materials. Honestly, DWMX is what pushed me over to jEdit. I couldn't be happier, although I DO miss some of the CF-Specific items from HomeSite, that just pushes me to bone up on JAVA so I can help make jEdit what I want it to be. Anyway, nice job guys, the site has some distance to go, but it's a fabulous start. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: jon hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Yeah I saw that. I just figured Macromedia found out about my Kevin Lynch voodoo doll who wears a little t-shirt emblazoned with homesite rocks! -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 11:35:25 AM, you wrote: JC I noticed on the product page that Homesite is referred to as The JC HTML hand-coding tool with a cult following Cult following? JC Stable, fast and easy-to-use now qualify for marginalized status? JC Man, this Kool-Aid is delicious! JC - Jim JC -Original Message- JC From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] JC Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:17 AM JC To: CF-Talk JC Subject: Re: New MM.com JC Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:02:08 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. ... JC I agree. I really dislike the new site. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. JC I guess I missed the option to do this. Where is it? JC -- JC Chris Montgomery JC ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Chris Montgomery wrote: Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 7:02:08 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Overall, I find the site rather slow when using the Flash version. ... I agree. I really dislike the new site. But I do like the look and feel of the new site. It is just that it is slow. I mean, the Downloads page takes about 9 seconds to display the first time, and about 7 seconds every time after that. And that is if I just count until the moment I get a working screen, the Transferring data from www.macromedia.com... stays in the taskbar forever. And it is just 50 kB of data, so probably the HTML version uses more bandwidth as the Flash version, but it is still 3 times faster. As a result, I switched to the HTML version. I guess I missed the option to do this. Where is it? Under Accessibility at the bottom of the page. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
jeez, someones a little agro. Agreed it a huge step and there are issues but it is a massive step in web design. Vent your anger at the wishform/feedback and help instead of being obtuse. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 March 2003 17:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Is it really a a massive step in web design Or is it a massive step in marketeering/advertising/etc on the web??? Or have the two ideas really truly begun to meld into one? What is an RIA really??? To me it seems to smack of 'interactive TV'! Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff yet??? Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Just some thoughtswe should probably move this thread to CF_Community now I suspect Doug -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com jeez, someones a little agro. Agreed it a huge step and there are issues but it is a massive step in web design. Vent your anger at the wishform/feedback and help instead of being obtuse. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 March 2003 17:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Wednesday, March 5, 2003, 11:10:51 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: But I do like the look and feel of the new site. I do, for the most part. I guess I should've qualified my earlier dislike statement. It is just that it is slow. This is the biggest issue for me, too. Even on my DSL connection it is really slow. Under Accessibility at the bottom of the page. Yeah, I finally found it, but clicking on the HTML Version button had no effect whatsoever. Guess it's off to submit feedback. -- Chris Montgomery ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
looks fine too me at least they are trying to move stuff forward its got to put the fear of god into adobe! haha and their lamo sight Well maybe the new site will put to rest all the damn M$ rumors - Original Message - From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: RE: New MM.com jeez, someones a little agro. Agreed it a huge step and there are issues but it is a massive step in web design. Vent your anger at the wishform/feedback and help instead of being obtuse. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 March 2003 17:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
doesnt someone have to push the envelope? and with pushing things ahead there will be things that dont work with it. Thats how new things come about;) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: RE: New MM.com Is it really a a massive step in web design Or is it a massive step in marketeering/advertising/etc on the web??? Or have the two ideas really truly begun to meld into one? What is an RIA really??? To me it seems to smack of 'interactive TV'! Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff yet??? Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Just some thoughtswe should probably move this thread to CF_Community now I suspect Doug -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com jeez, someones a little agro. Agreed it a huge step and there are issues but it is a massive step in web design. Vent your anger at the wishform/feedback and help instead of being obtuse. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 March 2003 17:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Is it really a a massive step in web design Or is it a massive step in marketeering/advertising/etc on the web??? Or have the two ideas really truly begun to meld into one? Just blowin sunshine up everybodies a$$ What is an RIA really??? To me it seems to smack of 'interactive TV'! Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff yet??? Building one now...lovin it! RIA is the way to go. Lets face it...alot of customers don't understand what we do...but they love pretty moving pictures ;-) Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Umm ya...what's so hard about that? Just some thoughtswe should probably move this thread to CF_Community now I suspect Doug Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
Oh I'm being far from obtuse my friend. And I've already said on the feedback form their site is broken ;) And where is the anger in that post? So who's obtuse now lol - Original Message - From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: RE: New MM.com jeez, someones a little agro. Agreed it a huge step and there are issues but it is a massive step in web design. Vent your anger at the wishform/feedback and help instead of being obtuse. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 March 2003 17:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2003/February/browser.php Stats from Internet.com and its suite of sites : 580020 out of 113973510 visitors in February this year had Opera x.x That is 0.0051 percent of browser usage. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_war.asp Doesn't even list Opera, because its usage is less than 1%. I'm not saying that its right that the MM site doesn't work with Opera, but that your quote of 10% is wildly inaccurate. It also begs the question, why does it not work in Opera? I've got the site working in IE5.5, Mozilla 1.1a and Nutscrape 4.7 crashed, but then that hardly surprising given how bad it was at pretty much everything! The only negative things I will say are (in no order of preference) : 1) why on earth is there an XHTML DOCTYPE in the site, when plainly its more likely to be html4.01 - someone's been a bit overzealous with the selection of the DOCTYPE in DWMX me thinks ;o) 2) It does take a little too long to Initialise, assemble and Process the content, particularly on the home page when you first visit the site. 3) Why oh why is there cgi all over the place??? MM have got 2 server technologies to show off as well as flash mx and there is no _visible_ use of those technologies on the site and the cgi files make it look like you're using perl!! Stop being a whining troll Bill and get back to CF_Community. ;oD Please will everyone else please post their _constructive_ critism through the feedback page here (http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/mm_feedback.html) as Christian politely requested before. Regards Stephen - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 5:03 PM Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
- Original Message - From: Stephen Moretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] It also begs the question, why does it not work in Opera? I've got the site working in IE5.5, Mozilla 1.1a and Nutscrape 4.7 crashed, but then that hardly surprising given how bad it was at pretty much everything! Apparently the issue with Opera actually existing on our previous site, but it manifests itself a little more on the new site. It is an issue with Opera (although I don't have the details yet), and we are working with the Opera team to resolve it. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
One thing to note, if Opera by default identifies itself as IE then why doesn't it render pages the same as IE? Why would you pretend to be a different browser and then not support the same things? Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Stephen Moretti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2003/February/browser.php Stats from Internet.com and its suite of sites : 580020 out of 113973510 visitors in February this year had Opera x.x That is 0.0051 percent of browser usage. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_war.asp Doesn't even list Opera, because its usage is less than 1%. I'm not saying that its right that the MM site doesn't work with Opera, but that your quote of 10% is wildly inaccurate. It also begs the question, why does it not work in Opera? I've got the site working in IE5.5, Mozilla 1.1a and Nutscrape 4.7 crashed, but then that hardly surprising given how bad it was at pretty much everything! The only negative things I will say are (in no order of preference) : 1) why on earth is there an XHTML DOCTYPE in the site, when plainly its more likely to be html4.01 - someone's been a bit overzealous with the selection of the DOCTYPE in DWMX me thinks ;o) 2) It does take a little too long to Initialise, assemble and Process the content, particularly on the home page when you first visit the site. 3) Why oh why is there cgi all over the place??? MM have got 2 server technologies to show off as well as flash mx and there is no _visible_ use of those technologies on the site and the cgi files make it look like you're using perl!! Stop being a whining troll Bill and get back to CF_Community. ;oD Please will everyone else please post their _constructive_ critism through the feedback page here (http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/mm_feedback.html) as Christian politely requested before. Regards Stephen - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 5:03 PM Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Ooops! I meant to state Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of data that can be dumped to Excel IN A FLASH RIA APP??? ...this is low hanging fruit in CF. This is the perfect response: Building one now...lovin it! RIA is the way to go. Lets face it...alot of customers don't understand what we do...but they love pretty moving pictures ;-) That hit the proverbial nail on the head dead on! Doug -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Is it really a a massive step in web design Or is it a massive step in marketeering/advertising/etc on the web??? Or have the two ideas really truly begun to meld into one? Just blowin sunshine up everybodies a$$ What is an RIA really??? To me it seems to smack of 'interactive TV'! Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff yet??? Building one now...lovin it! RIA is the way to go. Lets face it...alot of customers don't understand what we do...but they love pretty moving pictures ;-) Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Umm ya...what's so hard about that? Just some thoughtswe should probably move this thread to CF_Community now I suspect Doug Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
So, the problem is with Opera. But it looks like you didn't QA with Opera... Who's problem is that? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 11:22AM - Original Message - From: Stephen Moretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] It also begs the question, why does it not work in Opera? I've got the site working in IE5.5, Mozilla 1.1a and Nutscrape 4.7 crashed, but then that hardly surprising given how bad it was at pretty much everything! Apparently the issue with Opera actually existing on our previous site, but it manifests itself a little more on the new site. It is an issue with Opera (although I don't have the details yet), and we are working with the Opera team to resolve it. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
A problem with Opera? What about the flash player? Isn't it supposed to be a virtual machine? Compile once, run anywhere? What, problem with Opera? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 11:22AM - Original Message - From: Stephen Moretti [EMAIL PROTECTED] It also begs the question, why does it not work in Opera? I've got the site working in IE5.5, Mozilla 1.1a and Nutscrape 4.7 crashed, but then that hardly surprising given how bad it was at pretty much everything! Apparently the issue with Opera actually existing on our previous site, but it manifests itself a little more on the new site. It is an issue with Opera (although I don't have the details yet), and we are working with the Opera team to resolve it. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
not yet...but it wouldn't take very longjust a matter of dumping the recordset back to a CFC and producing an Excel file...just like you normally would...heck just use a custom tag once it's back to the CFC ;-) So ya like the pretty moving picture line eh ;-) It's kinda rough to think that all the hard work we put into our projects can often come down to that. I've seen it time and time again where a large company goes with the (excuse the pun) Flashiest app and not the most functional. Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: RE: New MM.com Ooops! I meant to state Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of data that can be dumped to Excel IN A FLASH RIA APP??? ...this is low hanging fruit in CF. This is the perfect response: Building one now...lovin it! RIA is the way to go. Lets face it...alot of customers don't understand what we do...but they love pretty moving pictures ;-) That hit the proverbial nail on the head dead on! Doug -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Is it really a a massive step in web design Or is it a massive step in marketeering/advertising/etc on the web??? Or have the two ideas really truly begun to meld into one? Just blowin sunshine up everybodies a$$ What is an RIA really??? To me it seems to smack of 'interactive TV'! Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff yet??? Building one now...lovin it! RIA is the way to go. Lets face it...alot of customers don't understand what we do...but they love pretty moving pictures ;-) Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Umm ya...what's so hard about that? Just some thoughtswe should probably move this thread to CF_Community now I suspect Doug Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Our current RIA project involved something similar to what you're describing. While there was a slight workaround required to handling error responses gracefully...it was a snap. -Stace -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com Ooops! I meant to state Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of data that can be dumped to Excel IN A FLASH RIA APP??? ...this is low hanging fruit in CF. This is the perfect response: Building one now...lovin it! RIA is the way to go. Lets face it...alot of customers don't understand what we do...but they love pretty moving pictures ;-) That hit the proverbial nail on the head dead on! Doug -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Is it really a a massive step in web design Or is it a massive step in marketeering/advertising/etc on the web??? Or have the two ideas really truly begun to meld into one? Just blowin sunshine up everybodies a$$ What is an RIA really??? To me it seems to smack of 'interactive TV'! Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff yet??? Building one now...lovin it! RIA is the way to go. Lets face it...alot of customers don't understand what we do...but they love pretty moving pictures ;-) Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Umm ya...what's so hard about that? Just some thoughtswe should probably move this thread to CF_Community now I suspect Doug Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
It's not necessarily a short coming in flash because one could always design it so that the movie in question could have a little more smarts on what it should be showing..i.e. don't' re-play the intro etc... Stace -Original Message- From: Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com Well it's nice and pretty, but I immediately found at least one basic problem in architecture Look at the 'site of the day' and explanations of the various features on the site - you can't get there with the explanation in a new window. So when you read about the new features then want to go back and look, you have to use the 'back' button instead, and wait for the flash to reload all over again. This is one of the basic problems with flash navigation schemes. I think they'd be better to have the links underneath the big skipintro panel in html instead of flash. This is one of the ongoing problems with flash, and will continue to hold back the acceptance of flash until it's addressed. There are some wonderful innovations on this new site and it looks fantastic, but it doesn't work the same way as the thousands of other sites that people visit. Particularly, the right-click menus. And it's a good thing I'm using ASDL broadband now, because it's long wait for the flash navigation menus to load every page, and every forward and every back as I move around the site. It's a LOT LOT LOT slower than the html sites I navigate all day. Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff We're moving into our fourth project. It rox! -Stace -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com Is it really a a massive step in web design Or is it a massive step in marketeering/advertising/etc on the web??? Or have the two ideas really truly begun to meld into one? What is an RIA really??? To me it seems to smack of 'interactive TV'! Has anyone built any true business applications using this RIA stuff yet??? Has someone say built a DB driven ad-hoc report that easily displays 1000 rows of dat that can be dumped to Excel??? Just some thoughtswe should probably move this thread to CF_Community now I suspect Doug -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com jeez, someones a little agro. Agreed it a huge step and there are issues but it is a massive step in web design. Vent your anger at the wishform/feedback and help instead of being obtuse. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 March 2003 17:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com Nah its just another example of macromedia. :) Kinda makes me laugh in a way - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com -- accessibility link inside flash movie
As a result, I switched to the HTML version. I guess I missed the option to do this. Where is it? Under Accessibility at the bottom of the page. Although that Accessibility link really should be in the html on the flash page rather than in the flash which presumably would be the reason you're switching to html, because for one reason or another the flash isn't working right for you. Doesn't really matter that Flash is supported on 90%+ of the browsers that will be seeing the site, someone's plugin could be corrupt, etc, etc. which might cause someone who might otherwise be using the flash site to need or want the html site, and with that link in the flash, most of them probably won't be able to figure out how to get there even if there is a way for them to get there. s. isaac dealey954-776-0046 new epoch http://www.turnkey.to lead architect, tapestry cms http://products.turnkey.to tapestry api is opensource http://www.turnkey.to/tapi certified advanced coldfusion 5 developer http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?ID=21816 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
.4% of users who visit our site use Opera. Regardless, we are working with Opera to resolve the issue. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Willy Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:52 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com I appreciate that you guys are getting hammered here. I should have thought you'd have expected it. I also hear you getting defensive, and I can really understand that, too. I've been there. That not withstanding, what you've essentially said here is this: Whatever percentage the Opera market is, we're comfortable abandoning them, or forcing them to launch a Microsoft product that they'd really rather not. My guess is that your typical Opera user is a developer. Is this really an audience you're comfortable with orphaning? For my part, when I develop a site, I'm constantly testing it in several versions of Explorer, Communicator and Opera. Who QA-ed your new site, anyway? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 09:31AM One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
On Wednesday, Mar 5, 2003, at 04:30 US/Pacific, Everett, Al wrote: http://www.macromedia.com/bin/webfeedback.cgi Why is this not .cfm? It's on the list :) Why didn't it get done for this launch? Mostly because it's hooked into a much bigger legacy Perl system that we've used for many years to capture user information and process it through log files and back into mailing lists etc. We have a lot of CGI scripts so it would be quit a bit of work to rewrite them all - with all their back end machinery - in ColdFusion. We'll probably get to it in time. Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription Find out more: http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
On Wednesday, Mar 5, 2003, at 09:10 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: I think the new site rocks. Sure it's got some issues, but it's a work in progress. I'm sure they'll take care of the usability issues post haste. For what it's worth, I think it's going to be a fabulous site. Thank you. On the HomeSite issue - that's funny. If the product has a cult-like following, then why can't you buy it without having to buy Dreamweaver? You can: http://dynamic.macromedia.com/bin/MM/store/US/product.jsp?category=/ Software/Development/StandAlones/HomeSitetype=FULL DWMX has HomeSite+ bundled with it which is essentially CF Studio 5 and you can't buy that separately, but then DWMX costs $100 *less* than CF Studio used to cost so buying DWMX to get HomeSite+ is really a saving over CF Studio. Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription Find out more: http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
I hear you, Mike, and I'm sorry you're getting your lunch pissed on today. Know this: I'm a developer for a small college using ColdFusion MX, Flash MX, DWMX, and Homesite. We've been a ColdFusion campus since version 3. I *love* your products. I *love* your support folks. I would like to see Macromedia continue to do well. I'm a loyal customer. Here's how I read your .04%: Macromedia's marketing info says the site gets a million customers a day. That article is here: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mmwebsite/articles/devnet_experience.html four tenths of one percent of one million (1,000,000 * .004) = 4,000 customers hitting your site per day using Opera. So, is this significant to you or not? Maybe it isn't. I can see the corporate attitude being, The amount of customers we have, those 4k can hang. What do you think? Is that the case? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 05:07PM .4% of users who visit our site use Opera. Regardless, we are working with Opera to resolve the issue. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Willy Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:52 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com I appreciate that you guys are getting hammered here. I should have thought you'd have expected it. I also hear you getting defensive, and I can really understand that, too. I've been there. That not withstanding, what you've essentially said here is this: Whatever percentage the Opera market is, we're comfortable abandoning them, or forcing them to launch a Microsoft product that they'd really rather not. My guess is that your typical Opera user is a developer. Is this really an audience you're comfortable with orphaning? For my part, when I develop a site, I'm constantly testing it in several versions of Explorer, Communicator and Opera. Who QA-ed your new site, anyway? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 09:31AM One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
| | It's on the list :) | | Why didn't it get done for this launch? Mostly because it's hooked into | a much bigger legacy Perl system that we've used for many years to | capture user information and process it through log files and back into | mailing lists etc. We have a lot of CGI scripts so it would be quit a | bit of work to rewrite them all - with all their back end machinery - | in ColdFusion. We'll probably get to it in time. | This must be the code that places people on Macromedia mailing lists when they do not intend to be suscribing. Part of the result is that Macromedia ends up on e-mail blacklists because a few of these subscribers feel that the marketing email they receive is unsolicited, and thus is reported as spam. I hope that added to the list of fixes will be a double opt-in method of confirming subscriptions before adding them to the marketing database. This in keeping with best practices for mail list management encouraged by those of us who use spammer blacklists as filters on our own mail servers. This is an item that would remove the black-eye that Macromedia has concerning marketing emails, and permit those of us that do filter, to continue to receive mail that we have subscribed to intentionally. Requiring an email address in order to navigate your site, and then auto-adding that email address to marketing email lists is not a good practice, and labels the mailer as a spammer. Macromedia has three mail servers that have a blacklist history on the spamcop blacklist, which is increasingly being used at the ISP level to block unsolicited commercial email (UCE). To guarantee a listing on the black list, all a visitor has to do is to visit your web site, enter an email address set up specifically as a spam trap address, and then start receiving email to that address. The mail is then reported to Spamcop, where the spam score is weighted by mail to special trap addresses. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 08:00 PM, Willy Ray wrote: Know this: I'm a developer for a small college using ColdFusion MX, Flash MX, DWMX, and Homesite. We've been a ColdFusion campus since version 3. I *love* your products. I *love* your support folks. I would like to see Macromedia continue to do well. I'm a loyal customer. That's good to hear. Thanks for the support. I will pass this along to our support team. I don't think anyone in support is used to being told that they are loved! Here's how I read your .04%: Macromedia's marketing info says the site gets a million customers a day. That article is here: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mmwebsite/articles/ devnet_experience.html four tenths of one percent of one million (1,000,000 * .004) = 4,000 customers hitting your site per day using Opera. So, is this significant to you or not? Maybe it isn't. I can see the corporate attitude being, The amount of customers we have, those 4k can hang. What do you think? Is that the case? I don't think Mike posted that statistic intending to trivialize the numbers. I think he just posted it to put the debate in perspective since there were posts earlier this morning claiming that Opera owns 10% of the browser market. 4,000 is clearly significant which is why we are working with Opera to get these issues worked out. We don't want anyone to be excluded from our content any more than Opera wants their users to be excluded from anyone's content, which is why we both want to get this issue resolved. I will say, however, that it would not have made much sense for us to design our new site around one little bug in one browser that constitutes .4% of our traffic when we are already working on getting the bug fixed. Christian ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
I didn't mean to imply that it was insignificant (that is not up for me to decide). But I think it does show why we launched the site, before any issues with the browser were resolved. As I stated in a previous thread, we are working with opera to resolve the issue. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Willy Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 8:00 PM Subject: Re: New MM.com I hear you, Mike, and I'm sorry you're getting your lunch pissed on today. Know this: I'm a developer for a small college using ColdFusion MX, Flash MX, DWMX, and Homesite. We've been a ColdFusion campus since version 3. I *love* your products. I *love* your support folks. I would like to see Macromedia continue to do well. I'm a loyal customer. Here's how I read your .04%: Macromedia's marketing info says the site gets a million customers a day. That article is here: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mmwebsite/articles/devnet_experience.html four tenths of one percent of one million (1,000,000 * .004) = 4,000 customers hitting your site per day using Opera. So, is this significant to you or not? Maybe it isn't. I can see the corporate attitude being, The amount of customers we have, those 4k can hang. What do you think? Is that the case? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 05:07PM .4% of users who visit our site use Opera. Regardless, we are working with Opera to resolve the issue. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Willy Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:52 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com I appreciate that you guys are getting hammered here. I should have thought you'd have expected it. I also hear you getting defensive, and I can really understand that, too. I've been there. That not withstanding, what you've essentially said here is this: Whatever percentage the Opera market is, we're comfortable abandoning them, or forcing them to launch a Microsoft product that they'd really rather not. My guess is that your typical Opera user is a developer. Is this really an audience you're comfortable with orphaning? For my part, when I develop a site, I'm constantly testing it in several versions of Explorer, Communicator and Opera. Who QA-ed your new site, anyway? Willy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 09:31AM One thing to keep in mind is that while Opera may have 10% of the market (does it?), that does not mean that 10% of people who visit the Macromedia site have it. It may be a much smaller percentage. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New MM.com AHHH nobody seems to have mentioned the fact the site looks like horses*it to me ;) The stupid flash just loops loading over and over. I cant even see it with opera, and if they don't have a QA Dept then i'm a little worried. If they also don't care about 10% and growing portion of the browser market well then that fine too i guess i wont be visiting their site anymore unfortunately until they fix the problem. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
good call! the site looks great!!! - Original Message - From: Chris Kief [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: New MM.com After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! chris ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Great Job Sean Corfield. The new MM site is really sweet! Are you going to post an architecture paper on the site? Jeff -Original Message- From: Chris Kief [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: New MM.com After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! chris ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! Agreed. However, the inevitable bug or two has cropped up in my navigation. Where can I report them? Regards, Dave. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
here you go: http://www.macromedia.com/bin/webfeedback.cgi mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Dave Carabetta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:21 PM Subject: Re: New MM.com After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! Agreed. However, the inevitable bug or two has cropped up in my navigation. Where can I report them? Regards, Dave. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
looks awesome dudes...kudos to SEan and team... the site kills my box running a K62400 though...resource meeter is nailed 100%! Doug -Original Message- From: Jeff Garza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com Great Job Sean Corfield. The new MM site is really sweet! Are you going to post an architecture paper on the site? Jeff -Original Message- From: Chris Kief [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: New MM.com After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! chris ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
On Tuesday, Mar 4, 2003, at 19:49 US/Pacific, Jeff Garza wrote: Great Job Sean Corfield. I can't take the credit - thank the dozens of hard-working engineers and designers involved in this project! The new MM site is really sweet! Are you going to post an architecture paper on the site? I believe that is on my post-launch task list, yes :) Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: New MM.com
i come from a rather bandwidth poor part of the world was prepared for p*ss-poor performance. i was surprised at how well bandwidth was used, even the slower portions didn't seem that slow. very well done. now this raises the bar! ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Bravo! The new site is beautiful. It's a great showcase of the power and ability of the Macromedia technologies. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:47 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New MM.com On Tuesday, Mar 4, 2003, at 19:49 US/Pacific, Jeff Garza wrote: Great Job Sean Corfield. I can't take the credit - thank the dozens of hard-working engineers and designers involved in this project! The new MM site is really sweet! Are you going to post an architecture paper on the site? I believe that is on my post-launch task list, yes :) Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Well it's nice and pretty, but I immediately found at least one basic problem in architecture Look at the 'site of the day' and explanations of the various features on the site - you can't get there with the explanation in a new window. So when you read about the new features then want to go back and look, you have to use the 'back' button instead, and wait for the flash to reload all over again. This is one of the basic problems with flash navigation schemes. I think they'd be better to have the links underneath the big skipintro panel in html instead of flash. This is one of the ongoing problems with flash, and will continue to hold back the acceptance of flash until it's addressed. There are some wonderful innovations on this new site and it looks fantastic, but it doesn't work the same way as the thousands of other sites that people visit. Particularly, the right-click menus. And it's a good thing I'm using ASDL broadband now, because it's long wait for the flash navigation menus to load every page, and every forward and every back as I move around the site. It's a LOT LOT LOT slower than the html sites I navigate all day. Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! chris Okay - I'm a big doofus. I went to the actual www.mm.com ... Not nearly as impressive. ;^) Great job on the site tho'! Jim Davis ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
Don't feel bad. So did I :) John Wilker Web Applications Consultant, Writer Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer Founder/President IE CFUG www.red-omega.com Whatever is wrong it is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Unless of course you just got poked in the eye with a sharp stick. -Original Message- From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! chris Okay - I'm a big doofus. I went to the actual www.mm.com ... Not nearly as impressive. ;^) Great job on the site tho'! Jim Davis ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
But do you type in Macromind.com even tho' (I don't think) it was ever a website? ;^) Jim Davis -Original Message- From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:47 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com Don't feel bad. So did I :) John Wilker Web Applications Consultant, Writer Macromedia Certified ColdFusion Developer Founder/President IE CFUG www.red-omega.com Whatever is wrong it is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Unless of course you just got poked in the eye with a sharp stick. -Original Message- From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com After all the complaining today, how bout a big HELL YEAH! for MM and the new site. Fantastic job guys!! chris Okay - I'm a big doofus. I went to the actual www.mm.com ... Not nearly as impressive. ;^) Great job on the site tho'! Jim Davis ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
OH and another thing .. It's not wheel mouse compatible. I use the wheel all the time to scroll around the screen and this fine looking interface doesn't recognise it. Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. -Original Message- From: Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2003 4:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com Well it's nice and pretty, but I immediately found at least one basic problem in architecture Look at the 'site of the day' and explanations of the various features on the site - you can't get there with the explanation in a new window. So when you read about the new features then want to go back and look, you have to use the 'back' button instead, and wait for the flash to reload all over again. This is one of the basic problems with flash navigation schemes. I think they'd be better to have the links underneath the big skipintro panel in html instead of flash. This is one of the ongoing problems with flash, and will continue to hold back the acceptance of flash until it's addressed. There are some wonderful innovations on this new site and it looks fantastic, but it doesn't work the same way as the thousands of other sites that people visit. Particularly, the right-click menus. And it's a good thing I'm using ASDL broadband now, because it's long wait for the flash navigation menus to load every page, and every forward and every back as I move around the site. It's a LOT LOT LOT slower than the html sites I navigate all day. Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: New MM.com
-Original Message- From: Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New MM.com OH and another thing .. It's not wheel mouse compatible. I use the wheel all the time to scroll around the screen and this fine looking interface doesn't recognise it. I've gotta second this... My KVM recently started to give up it's ghost (never buy a Belkin KVM - it REALLY sucks) and two of the channels have lost wheel support. You never know how much you'll miss something until it's gone. I'm not sure if this would be something needed at the core Flash level however or if it could be trapped in Action Script... I've really gotta learn Flash. Jim Davis ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
