Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
"Paul Borghese" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Futurewei (of whom I know nothing about) is not the only vendor copying > the Cisco interface. Check out Avici (www.avici.com) or even the free > software Zebra (www.zebra.org). Wow I checked out the link to Avici and searched and found a command reference... WOW! Here's a snippet from their command reference.. Looks alot like IOS to me =) ip access-group Applies access list filters to packets on the interface that are inbound to the server, outbound from the server, or forwarded across the fabric. Syntax: [no] ip access-group access-list-name [in | out | forward] access-list-name Name of an access-list. in Filters inbound packets destined for the server. out Filters outbound packets sourced by the server. forward Filters packets forwarded across the fabric. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49956&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Well, AMD actually co-developed CPUs with Intel, so they would have no need to copy. And (sorry Priscilla, this isn't meant for you), but when will people get it through their head that Microsoft DID NOT COPY Apple. That implies Apple was the first computer to use a mouse and GUI, which is definitely NOT the case! If one truly believes that Microsoft copied Apple, then Apple is as much of a copycat as Microsoft was (see following URL): http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/far/ch4_b3.html Please give the above URL to everyone you know that spouts this garbage lest this misinformation about Apple being the revolutionary genius that "created" the GUI will continue. Geez. Mike W. "supernet" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I think it would be hard to prove that they copied Cisco product. > Otherwise, we can also say AMD copied Intel, Microsoft copied Apple. > > Just my thought. > Yoshi Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49941&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
The end products are assembled in San Jose and Austin... the individual modules (4xxx/6xxx) are contracted to companies like selectron and shipped to the mfg sites for assembly in the final config that customers order. Larry Letterman Cisco Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Chuck Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] anyone know where Cisco manufactures it's products now? BTW, apparently the Huawei products are available in the US. Someone we all know and love tells me he is trying to get his hands on some. I've been looking forward to one of NRF's economics lessons to come out of this thread. This one, I suspect, would be about what happens in a free market when there is a dominant product that is priced expensively where there are also effectively low entry barriers. Time will tell. Back to reading up on the Huawei - I mean Cisco - 3550 ;-> ""Howard C. Berkowitz"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > In the past, Cisco has either licensed the IOS to port onto other > vendors' hardware (e.g., DEC), or has provided OEM router boards > (Cabletron, Synoptics). Any possibility Huawei is doing this will > the full cooperation of Cisco, without it being publicized? Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49915&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
anyone know where Cisco manufactures it's products now? BTW, apparently the Huawei products are available in the US. Someone we all know and love tells me he is trying to get his hands on some. I've been looking forward to one of NRF's economics lessons to come out of this thread. This one, I suspect, would be about what happens in a free market when there is a dominant product that is priced expensively where there are also effectively low entry barriers. Time will tell. Back to reading up on the Huawei - I mean Cisco - 3550 ;-> ""Howard C. Berkowitz"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > In the past, Cisco has either licensed the IOS to port onto other > vendors' hardware (e.g., DEC), or has provided OEM router boards > (Cabletron, Synoptics). Any possibility Huawei is doing this will > the full cooperation of Cisco, without it being publicized? Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49912&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
In the past, Cisco has either licensed the IOS to port onto other vendors' hardware (e.g., DEC), or has provided OEM router boards (Cabletron, Synoptics). Any possibility Huawei is doing this will the full cooperation of Cisco, without it being publicized? Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49910&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Careful Paul, We have a lawyer on groupstudy who plays a Cisco CCNP. Paul Borghese wrote: Whoa There! Accusations are flying. First of all, it is not illegal to copy the look and feel of an interface. Unless the artistic aspect of the work may be completely separated from its functional aspect, no protection is available from copyright law! The concepts, processes, ideas, procedures, systems, operational methods, principles and discoveries are also not protected even if the work as a whole is copyrighted! These principles were decided with lawsuits where Apple, Lotus and Xerox tried to form a legal monopoly by copyrighting a class of user interfaces. Of course they failed and as they say ... the rest is history. Imagine if Ford was able to copyright the placement of automobile foot petals! Jumping into a rental car and driving off would be quite an experience! Think about it this way: Do you really want an interface to by copyrighted? It would allow market domination of a market leader. Imagine if every software program had to find a new and unique way of saving a file. Almost every program I own works the same. You either click on the disk icon, Select File then Save or simply press the sequence [ALT]-f s. If Lotus had it their way (which in the beginning looked as if they might) the [ALT]-f s sequence could be copyrighted forcing us to learn a new sequence for each vendor's program. Futurewei (of whom I know nothing about) is not the only vendor copying the Cisco interface. Check out Avici (www.avici.com) or even the free software Zebra (www.zebra.org). As for your second accusation about this group supporting NDA violations .. trust me, there is a lot going on behind the scenes that I do not want to discuss in public. I work very close with Cisco on this issue. Every message sent through the server has a line appended to the bottom telling the reader where to report NDA violations! First time posters are sent an e-mail of which they must agree that the message is not an NDA violation. And when you join the list you are sent a list of rules, one of which strictly forbids NDA violations. Paul Borghese Warning: I am not a laywer, but I play one on GroupStudy. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Craig Columbus Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] Just thought I'd comment on this Let me issue a disclaimer first: I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. With that said: Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. Just my opinion... Craig At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Hi group, > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 >months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a >demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current >projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is >requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was >no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Whoa There! Accusations are flying. First of all, it is not illegal to copy the look and feel of an interface. Unless the artistic aspect of the work may be completely separated from its functional aspect, no protection is available from copyright law! The concepts, processes, ideas, procedures, systems, operational methods, principles and discoveries are also not protected even if the work as a whole is copyrighted! These principles were decided with lawsuits where Apple, Lotus and Xerox tried to form a legal monopoly by copyrighting a class of user interfaces. Of course they failed and as they say ... the rest is history. Imagine if Ford was able to copyright the placement of automobile foot petals! Jumping into a rental car and driving off would be quite an experience! Think about it this way: Do you really want an interface to by copyrighted? It would allow market domination of a market leader. Imagine if every software program had to find a new and unique way of saving a file. Almost every program I own works the same. You either click on the disk icon, Select File then Save or simply press the sequence [ALT]-f s. If Lotus had it their way (which in the beginning looked as if they might) the [ALT]-f s sequence could be copyrighted forcing us to learn a new sequence for each vendor's program. Futurewei (of whom I know nothing about) is not the only vendor copying the Cisco interface. Check out Avici (www.avici.com) or even the free software Zebra (www.zebra.org). As for your second accusation about this group supporting NDA violations .. trust me, there is a lot going on behind the scenes that I do not want to discuss in public. I work very close with Cisco on this issue. Every message sent through the server has a line appended to the bottom telling the reader where to report NDA violations! First time posters are sent an e-mail of which they must agree that the message is not an NDA violation. And when you join the list you are sent a list of rules, one of which strictly forbids NDA violations. Paul Borghese Warning: I am not a laywer, but I play one on GroupStudy. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Craig Columbus Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] Just thought I'd comment on this Let me issue a disclaimer first: I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. With that said: Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. Just my opinion... Craig At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Hi group, > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 >months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a >demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current >projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is >requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was >no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is going >to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% cheaper, I >guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > >Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of >certifications. > >Ron Tan Message Posted
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
wonder if this helps explain why Cisco's stock tanked recently, and is now around 11 bucks? much as I'd like to see prices plummet - I lose a good bit of business to non Cisco solutions these days, with customers watching their dollars - the spillover here in California would not be pretty, and the California economy is still in the toilet. ""Fraasch James"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > This is not the first time I have seen this happen. A bit over a year ago I > did some training on RiverDelta, now part of Motorola, (cable modem UBRs > like the Cisco 7246's) equipment and they had the exact IOS on their UBRs as > Cisco did on theirs. From the training it looked like they had only a few > additional commands but everything else was exactly the same. > > What is that saying again, copying is the greatest form of flattery!!! > > Oh well. > > James Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49857&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Didn't you even bother to read the disclaimer I put in my post? I didn't start this thread, I'm not the one who said that they had reverse engineered Cisco's products, I'm not the one who stated that even the product lines were named the same. I'm not spreading rumors and I specifically included a disclaimer that I don't yet have all the information and that I haven't yet been able to verify anything about Huawei. If Huawei is legit and hasn't based their product on someone else's intellectual property, then I hope they become a huge marketforce. I'm all for competition in the R&S marketplace. The fact of the matter is that Asia as a whole, and China specifically, is widely known for wholesale software piracy and for blatantly ignoring international intellectual property laws. So, when someone starts a thread on a new company whose line of routers supposedly runs Cisco IOS and whose product line is supposedly clearly named to show the close alliance to Cisco's product line, I get rightfully concerned. We ALL should be concerned. What bothered me about the post wasn't that Huawei came out with a line of routers that competes directly with Ciscoit was that they were presented in such a light (by others, not me), that made it appear that they were infringing on Cisco's intellectual property, and people seemed excited, not bothered, by the fact. Finally, let me stress againI'm not saying that Huawei did anything wrong. I have no knowledge of the company. They're probably completely legitimate. In fact, I hope Hauwei is legitimate and that there is a new competitor in the marketplace. Competition makes everyone stronger, except when that competition is the result of intellectual property rights infringement. Craig At 05:01 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Ok Craig, you need to gather some more info before you start spreading >piracy rumors. I just talked to the the west coast channel manager for >Huawei, Yes their routers are very similar to cisco, But he assured me that >they in no way reverse-engineered them. They have been designed with the >cisco user in mind. That way your learning curve is quite small. They have >their own OS it is NOT Cisco IOS, but the interface looks very similar, >Their routers will NOT run cisco IOS. They also have designed their own >ASIC's for these routers. So I think you need to chill out a little and get >some more info. These products seem to fit a very big market here in the US. >There are a lot of cisco engineers here in US that would love to be able to >offer this to their customers. I will be getting a demo unit soon and would >love to share my experience with the group. > >Erich > >-Original Message- >From: Craig Columbus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:58 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] > > >Just thought I'd comment on this > >Let me issue a disclaimer first: >I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding >to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to >verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the >product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. > >With that said: > >Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, >copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure >they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to >support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product >line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the >USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, >anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, >no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited >because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the >CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and >willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the >claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered >Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. > >Just my opinion... >Craig > > > > >At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: > >Hi group, > > > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the > >past 2 months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > > > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to > >provide a demo set for me to play with (myself from an interna
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Ok Craig, you need to gather some more info before you start spreading piracy rumors. I just talked to the the west coast channel manager for Huawei, Yes their routers are very similar to cisco, But he assured me that they in no way reverse-engineered them. They have been designed with the cisco user in mind. That way your learning curve is quite small. They have their own OS it is NOT Cisco IOS, but the interface looks very similar, Their routers will NOT run cisco IOS. They also have designed their own ASIC's for these routers. So I think you need to chill out a little and get some more info. These products seem to fit a very big market here in the US. There are a lot of cisco engineers here in US that would love to be able to offer this to their customers. I will be getting a demo unit soon and would love to share my experience with the group. Erich -Original Message- From: Craig Columbus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] Just thought I'd comment on this Let me issue a disclaimer first: I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. With that said: Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. Just my opinion... Craig At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Hi group, > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the >past 2 months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to >provide a demo set for me to play with (myself from an international >mnc, has current projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess >what, my boss is requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there >was no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is >going to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% >cheaper, I guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > >Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of >certifications. > >Ron Tan Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49791&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
I don't think there's anyone in this industry who hasn't reverse engineered something in order not to pay royalties. Something like EtherChannel comes to mind. I think DEC originally created hunt-groups for trunking technologies long before Cisco had EtherChannel. I heard Cisco reverse-engineered the technology as well as most other vendors. That's why we have low-level compatibility between non-standard versions of trunking. Having said that, I would be concerned with support on any reverse engineered application or product. Jeffrey Reed Classic Networking, Inc. Cell 717-805-5536 Office 717-737-8586 FAX 717-737-0290 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Craig Columbus Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] Just thought I'd comment on this Let me issue a disclaimer first: I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. With that said: Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. Just my opinion... Craig At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Hi group, > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 >months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a >demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current >projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is >requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was >no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is going >to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% cheaper, I >guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > >Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of >certifications. > >Ron Tan Confidential e-mail for addressee only. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorized. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy the original communication. 2 Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49797&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
I think it would be hard to prove that they copied Cisco product. Otherwise, we can also say AMD copied Intel, Microsoft copied Apple. Just my thought. Yoshi -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Craig Columbus Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] Just thought I'd comment on this Let me issue a disclaimer first: I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. With that said: Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. Just my opinion... Craig At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Hi group, > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 >months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a >demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current >projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is >requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was >no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is going >to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% cheaper, I >guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > >Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of >certifications. > >Ron Tan Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49792&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Just thought I'd comment on this Let me issue a disclaimer first: I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. With that said: Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. Just my opinion... Craig At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Hi group, > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 >months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a >demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current >projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is >requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was >no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is going >to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% cheaper, I >guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > >Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of >certifications. > >Ron Tan Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49783&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
I geuss no-one believes in buying American made anymore. No wonder our economy is as bad as it is. I had to say it. Please send all flames to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Alex Lei [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 1:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] Groupstudy, I'd be very very surprised if Huawei violated Cisco's rights, simply because Huawei is the largest networking gear company in China, if they did anything suspicious, Cisco would surely find them. From what I know, Huawei is a pretty ethical company for a multi national corporation, and they sponsor a lot of research projects in Chinese universities. For the question in an earlier thread, Hua means China, Wei is effort or achievement. Alex Ron Tan wrote: > > Hi group, > > Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime > in the past 2 > months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > > That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered > to provide a > demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, > has current > projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my > boss is > requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > > The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there > were no > manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed > that there was > no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no > requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of > differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > > I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how > Cisco is going > to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for > 30-40% cheaper, I > guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > > Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of > certifications. > > Ron Tan Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49808&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Groupstudy, I'd be very very surprised if Huawei violated Cisco's rights, simply because Huawei is the largest networking gear company in China, if they did anything suspicious, Cisco would surely find them. From what I know, Huawei is a pretty ethical company for a multi national corporation, and they sponsor a lot of research projects in Chinese universities. For the question in an earlier thread, Hua means China, Wei is effort or achievement. Alex Ron Tan wrote: > > Hi group, > > Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime > in the past 2 > months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > > That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered > to provide a > demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, > has current > projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my > boss is > requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > > The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there > were no > manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed > that there was > no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no > requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of > differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > > I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how > Cisco is going > to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for > 30-40% cheaper, I > guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > > Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of > certifications. > > Ron Tan > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49804&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Craig Columbus wrote: > Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, > copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Your concerns are reasonable, however, cisco is big, they're majorly profitable, and they have access to the best lawyers money can buy. If futurewei / huawei were ripping them off, we'd hear about it pronto. This should be good news to us, that another company is making products that we can use with only a short learning curve. If the router and switch CLI is similar to IOS, great. Back a few years, when IBM 370 assembly language was king-boss of the hill, companies like NCR (Comten) used a 370-like command set to market their products. Things like this happen all the time. We should celebrate that we're already familiar with the user interface for futurewei. Unless I hear otherwise from the lawyer types, I'm going to pursue any and all products that are cisco-like, inexpensive, etc., in addition to the tried-and-true cisco equipment I already use. -- TT Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49801&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Hi group, Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is requesting me to have a look at their routers ! The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is going to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% cheaper, I guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of certifications. Ron Tan Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49778&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Hi Group, Regardless whether Huawei reverse-engineered Cisco products or not. Regardless the fact that their OS almost match with Cisco and they offer platforms with almost same conventions and even introducing same certifications to gain credability for them. I believe it's Cisco's concern more or less either legally - if they can sue them or not - or Marketing wise because Huawei products are like 40% less in price than Cisco's equivalent. For us who are working in the networking field should this worry us or not.. I really don't know, but what I really know is that Cisco has to do something about it either by knocking them down or dropping prices significantly to keep its market share intact. MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49809&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
Didn't Apple have a successful case against Franklin back in the early 80's? I remember having a Franklin or two in school along with all the other real Apple IIe boxes, but I seem to recall that Apple nailed them and made them stop making IIe clones. John >>> "Kent Hundley" 7/26/02 1:42:34 PM >>> Apple sued MS in the 80's and lost, although the issue was complex and one of the reasons MS was victorious was due to its claims that Apple itself had copied from systems at Xerox PARC. WRT reverse engineering, even if Huawei did reverse engineer Cisco code, they are still probably within "fair use" under US law. There are precedents for this sort of thing, Sega vs Accolade and Sony vs Connectix. I found an interesting paper on the subject for those that are interested: http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/~pam/papers/l&e%20reveng3.pdf IANAL, but based on the precedents cited in the above paper, it looks like in general reverse engineering software is an acceptable practice and Huawei is within their legal rights. (since they made $3.1 billion in 2001, I'd say if Cisco thought they had a case they would certainly have taken Huawei to court by now) Regards, Kent -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of supernet Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] I think it would be hard to prove that they copied Cisco product. Otherwise, we can also say AMD copied Intel, Microsoft copied Apple. Just my thought. Yoshi -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Craig Columbus Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] Just thought I'd comment on this Let me issue a disclaimer first: I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. With that said: Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the USA. I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. Just my opinion... Craig At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: >Hi group, > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 >months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a >demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current >projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is >requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was >no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is going >to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% cheaper, I >guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > >Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of >certifications. > >Ron Tan Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49822&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
I think that you should wait until it is actually illegal to purchase this equipment and then go on a diatribe. Until then the prospect of solid competition is good for all. Even if it does become illegal in this country you have got a hard row upstream in some Asian countries to get them to comply. Especially if the Chinese gov is involved in the project. This will eventually drive down prices of Cisco equipment either way. So it is a win win. - Original Message - From: "Craig Columbus" To: Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778] > Just thought I'd comment on this > > Let me issue a disclaimer first: > I've never heard of these routers until this thread. I'm only responding > to the information presented in these posts. I've been, so far, unable to > verify the information presented for myself. If I'm mistaken, and the > product isn't a Cisco ripoff, then I apologize. > > With that said: > > Am I the only one who finds it troubling that this company has, apparently, > copied Cisco's proprietary designs and is selling them as their own? > Sure they're cheaper. So is pirated software. Does it make it right to > support an operation like this? These guys even ripped off Cisco's product > line names. Surely there's some legal recourse for Cisco, at least in the > USA. > I guess I'm bothered because this group is so anti-NDA violation, > anti-software piracy, etcand then when something like this comes out, > no one bothers to speak up against it. In fact, people seem excited > because they'll be able to put together a cheaper lab to practice for the > CCIE lab. Personally, I don't see any difference between this and > willingly buying / exchanging pirated software. If I discover that the > claims are true, and that this company is only selling reverse-engineered > Cisco products, I, for one, will not support them or their equipment. > > Just my opinion... > Craig > > > > > At 03:10 PM 7/26/2002 +, you wrote: > >Hi group, > > > >Huawei routers were introduced into the local market sometime in the past 2 > >months in an asian networking exhibition called "Communicasia". > > > >That's where I met the Huawei distributor whom had volunteered to provide a > >demo set for me to play with (myself from an international mnc, has current > >projects to revamp our LAN/WAN structure) and guess what, my boss is > >requesting me to have a look at their routers ! > > > >The day the router came into the office, I noticed that there were no > >manuals provided. After meddling with the router, I believed that there was > >no need to request for one in the first place ! There will be no > >requirements to load the box with IOS, it is IOS (with a bit of > >differences). The whole thing was CLONED ! > > > >I'm not too sure about reversed-engineering but more on how Cisco is going > >to protect their market dominance. With boxes selling for 30-40% cheaper, I > >guess lots of ppl will be rushing off to buy it. > > > >Guess might as well I pack my bags for China to get a new set of > >certifications. > > > >Ron Tan Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49827&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Huawei routers - a.k.a. futurewei.com [7:49778]
This is not the first time I have seen this happen. A bit over a year ago I did some training on RiverDelta, now part of Motorola, (cable modem UBRs like the Cisco 7246's) equipment and they had the exact IOS on their UBRs as Cisco did on theirs. From the training it looked like they had only a few additional commands but everything else was exactly the same. What is that saying again, copying is the greatest form of flattery!!! Oh well. James Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=49843&t=49778 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
