RE: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Well, if you want to get that nit-picky, it's not even an accurate technicality. What if the rope is attached by drilling a hole through the poles, for example - any method so that the rope is not wrapped around the pole? Then you can put the poles side by side without the rope getting in the way. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 09/04/2002 05:05 pm - Dusty Harper Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/2002 05:08 am Please respond to Dusty Harper To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] Actually 0' is physically impossible due to the width of the rope needing to be taken into account, but that's just a technicality. -Original Message- From: Craig Columbus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] Part A: I heard this one where the friend also has a key that will open his lock, but not yours. Also, the condition is that no destructive techniques are allowed, so breaking or cutting wasn't a possible solution. Part B: He never states that the rope is attached to the top of the pole, just that it's attached to the pole. So, the answer is that the poles are somewhere between 0 and 32 feet apart. Craig At 11:33 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40898t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? If I understand correctly, I think the answer to this one is 16'. If the rope is attached to the ends of the poles, then the drop of the rope is 20' - 4' = 16'. The rope has total length of 32', the total length is composed of a drop and a horizontal span. So even though the shape of the rope is a parabola, we can just subtract the drop from the total length to get the span. Alex Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40839t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
How about lock the courier inside the box, throw away the key, keep the diamond? Patrick Ramsey cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 04/06/2002 02:25 PM Please respond to Patrick Ramsey how about lock his box inside your box, let him keep his key and send the key with your box with the courier. -Patrick Joe Morabito 04/06/02 09:04AM solution for part A: Lock the box, send it to your friend. Send the key as a separate delivery. In essence there are two deliveries made. - Original Message - From: Craig Columbus To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:58 AM Subject: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] Part A: I heard this one where the friend also has a key that will open his lock, but not yours. Also, the condition is that no destructive techniques are allowed, so breaking or cutting wasn't a possible solution. Part B: He never states that the rope is attached to the top of the pole, just that it's attached to the pole. So, the answer is that the poles are somewhere between 0 and 32 feet apart. Craig At 11:33 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Confidentiality Disclaimer This email and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential and /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar Health System, Inc. (WellStar) and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or copying of any information from this email is strictly prohibited, and may subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and then delete this email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40797t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
How about lock the courier inside the box, throw away the key, keep the diamond? With that answer, you probably would get the Microsoft job, but they'd offer you one in competitive marketing! how about lock his box inside your box, let him keep his key and send the key with your box with the courier. -Patrick Joe Morabito 04/06/02 09:04AM solution for part A: Lock the box, send it to your friend. Send the key as a separate delivery. In essence there are two deliveries made. - Original Message - From: Craig Columbus To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:58 AM Subject: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] Part A: I heard this one where the friend also has a key that will open his lock, but not yours. Also, the condition is that no destructive techniques are allowed, so breaking or cutting wasn't a possible solution. Part B: He never states that the rope is attached to the top of the pole, just that it's attached to the pole. So, the answer is that the poles are somewhere between 0 and 32 feet apart. Craig At 11:33 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Confidentiality Disclaimer This email and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential and /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar Health System, Inc. (WellStar) and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or copying of any information from this email is strictly prohibited, and may subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and then delete this email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40808t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Correct -Original Message- From: John Allhiser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 6:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] The first one is simple if you relate it to public key sharing in network security. Place the diamond in the box. Secure the box with your lock. Send it to your friend. So far, it's safe from the courier. When your friend receives the box, she secures the box with her lock and sends it back to you. Still safe. You remove your lock and send it back to her. Still safe. She removes her lock and retrieves the diamond. All of this is done without the use of relatively prime numbers. ;o) The second puzzle has already been answered using the details given --- 0'-32' -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40848t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Actually 0' is physically impossible due to the width of the rope needing to be taken into account, but that's just a technicality. -Original Message- From: Craig Columbus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] Part A: I heard this one where the friend also has a key that will open his lock, but not yours. Also, the condition is that no destructive techniques are allowed, so breaking or cutting wasn't a possible solution. Part B: He never states that the rope is attached to the top of the pole, just that it's attached to the pole. So, the answer is that the poles are somewhere between 0 and 32 feet apart. Craig At 11:33 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40849t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
solution for part A: Lock the box, send it to your friend. Send the key as a separate delivery. In essence there are two deliveries made. - Original Message - From: Craig Columbus To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:58 AM Subject: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] Part A: I heard this one where the friend also has a key that will open his lock, but not yours. Also, the condition is that no destructive techniques are allowed, so breaking or cutting wasn't a possible solution. Part B: He never states that the rope is attached to the top of the pole, just that it's attached to the pole. So, the answer is that the poles are somewhere between 0 and 32 feet apart. Craig At 11:33 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40678t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
The first one is simple if you relate it to public key sharing in network security. Place the diamond in the box. Secure the box with your lock. Send it to your friend. So far, it's safe from the courier. When your friend receives the box, she secures the box with her lock and sends it back to you. Still safe. You remove your lock and send it back to her. Still safe. She removes her lock and retrieves the diamond. All of this is done without the use of relatively prime numbers. ;o) The second puzzle has already been answered using the details given --- 0'-32' -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40681t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
But the courier will steal anything that isn't locked up, including a key! I believe the solution is as follows: Your friend sends you his box, unlocked, by courier. You place your key inside his box, lock it, and send it back. You then place the diamond into your box, lock it, and send it over. He can unlock your box because he has your key. John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Kent Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Daniel, I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the box, give the box and your key to the courier. Kent Daniel Cotts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40694t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
John,
I did not think of the key, but the couier could steal the unlocked box,
right?
I think John Allhiser got it right. I guess I need spend more time on
security.
Kent
John Neiberger wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
But the courier will steal anything that isn't locked up,
including a key! I believe the solution is as follows:
Your friend sends you his box, unlocked, by courier. You place
your key inside his box, lock it, and send it back. You then
place the diamond into your box, lock it, and send it over. He
can unlock your box because he has your key.
John
On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Kent Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Daniel,
I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the
box, give
the
box and your key to the courier.
Kent
Daniel Cotts wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
I'll bite.
a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the
diamond in your
box
and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open
the box.
b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching.
-Original Message-
From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world
solutions
to
problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or
problems.
As an example:
Prep:
You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a
diamond.
Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box.
Goal:
You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier.
However
the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How
do you do
this?
Another example:
If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them,
and the
lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far
apart are
the poles?
It gauges how one thinks and handles situations.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40695t=40553
--
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
how about lock his box inside your box, let him keep his key and send the key with your box with the courier. -Patrick Joe Morabito 04/06/02 09:04AM solution for part A: Lock the box, send it to your friend. Send the key as a separate delivery. In essence there are two deliveries made. - Original Message - From: Craig Columbus To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:58 AM Subject: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] Part A: I heard this one where the friend also has a key that will open his lock, but not yours. Also, the condition is that no destructive techniques are allowed, so breaking or cutting wasn't a possible solution. Part B: He never states that the rope is attached to the top of the pole, just that it's attached to the pole. So, the answer is that the poles are somewhere between 0 and 32 feet apart. Craig At 11:33 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Confidentiality Disclaimer This email and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential and /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar Health System, Inc. (WellStar) and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or copying of any information from this email is strictly prohibited, and may subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and then delete this email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40696t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Might I ask how your going to lock his box ? The courier would steal it if he gets his hands on it the dang courier. Thanks Larry -Original Message- From: John Neiberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 2:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] But the courier will steal anything that isn't locked up, including a key! I believe the solution is as follows: Your friend sends you his box, unlocked, by courier. You place your key inside his box, lock it, and send it back. You then place the diamond into your box, lock it, and send it over. He can unlock your box because he has your key. John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Kent Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Daniel, I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the box, give the box and your key to the courier. Kent Daniel Cotts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40702t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
I don't see why your friend can't send you his lock (without the key),
allowing you put diamond in any your box but lock it with his lock, and
send it back.
I guess I don't understand what the courier is going to steal. Will he
take anything, including boxes and locks, or just diamonds?
On Sat, 2002-04-06 at 14:21, Kent Yu wrote:
John,
I did not think of the key, but the couier could steal the unlocked box,
right?
I think John Allhiser got it right. I guess I need spend more time on
security.
Kent
John Neiberger wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
But the courier will steal anything that isn't locked up,
including a key! I believe the solution is as follows:
Your friend sends you his box, unlocked, by courier. You place
your key inside his box, lock it, and send it back. You then
place the diamond into your box, lock it, and send it over. He
can unlock your box because he has your key.
John
On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Kent Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Daniel,
I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the
box, give
the
box and your key to the courier.
Kent
Daniel Cotts wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
I'll bite.
a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the
diamond in your
box
and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open
the box.
b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching.
-Original Message-
From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world
solutions
to
problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or
problems.
As an example:
Prep:
You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a
diamond.
Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box.
Goal:
You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier.
However
the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How
do you do
this?
Another example:
If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them,
and the
lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far
apart are
the poles?
It gauges how one thinks and handles situations.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40703t=40553
--
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
I guess I was going on two assumptions: first, if the courier could steal the box itself then the rest of the puzzle is moot ; and second, that these were boxes with attached locks and you could lock them without a key. If the locks aren't attached to the box then you'd have to use one of the other solutions posted. On the second question about the poles, I found it entirely too vague. It never stated where the ropes were attached to the poles or even if the poles were aligned vertically. What if the poles were horizontal and the rope was attached to the middle? :-) John On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Roberts, Larry ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Might I ask how your going to lock his box ? The courier would steal it if he gets his hands on it the dang courier. Thanks Larry -Original Message- From: John Neiberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 2:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] But the courier will steal anything that isn't locked up, including a key! I believe the solution is as follows: Your friend sends you his box, unlocked, by courier. You place your key inside his box, lock it, and send it back. You then place the diamond into your box, lock it, and send it over. He can unlock your box because he has your key. John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Kent Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Daniel, I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the box, give the box and your key to the courier. Kent Daniel Cotts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40704t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Agreed. There are too many variables here. Even if the question stated that an exact answer could be derived given this information then one of two possibilities could exist: 1) The rope is 4 feet off the ground in this configuration: | | | | | | | | |---| | | 2) the Lowest point of the rope is 0' |\| | \ | | \ | | \ | |\| Perhaps these questions were formulated to compell the prospective employee to demonstrate that he/she is capable of demanding all the necessary information to complete the puzzle. This would be required of a sales engineeer, e.g.. On Sat, 2002-04-06 at 16:10, John Neiberger wrote: On the second question about the poles, I found it entirely too vague. It never stated where the ropes were attached to the poles or even if the poles were aligned vertically. What if the poles were horizontal and the rope was attached to the middle? :-) John On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Roberts, Larry ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Might I ask how your going to lock his box ? The courier would steal it if he gets his hands on it the dang courier. Thanks Larry -Original Message- From: John Neiberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 2:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] But the courier will steal anything that isn't locked up, including a key! I believe the solution is as follows: Your friend sends you his box, unlocked, by courier. You place your key inside his box, lock it, and send it back. You then place the diamond into your box, lock it, and send it over. He can unlock your box because he has your key. John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Kent Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Daniel, I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the box, give the box and your key to the courier. Kent Daniel Cotts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40706t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
A few problems with your theory, as I see it. #1. How do you wind up with his key to begin with? #2. If the courier will steal anything, when your friend sends you his box unlocked, the courier will steal the box - and thus, you have nothing to place your diamond into. #3. Why send diamonds by courier when they look so darned good on my hand or displayed on a delicate pendant dangling from a gold necklace laying precociously around my neck? -- Leigh Anne -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Neiberger Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553] But the courier will steal anything that isn't locked up, including a key! I believe the solution is as follows: Your friend sends you his box, unlocked, by courier. You place your key inside his box, lock it, and send it back. You then place the diamond into your box, lock it, and send it over. He can unlock your box because he has your key. John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Kent Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Daniel, I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the box, give the box and your key to the courier. Kent Daniel Cotts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40717t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Puzzles -gt; WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Comments inline... On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Leigh Anne Chisholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: A few problems with your theory, as I see it. #1. How do you wind up with his key to begin with? #2. If the courier will steal anything, when your friend sends you his box unlocked, the courier will steal the box - and thus, you have nothing to place your diamond into. I made two assumptions: 1. These boxes can be locked without a key and the locks are part of the box, not separate locks. 2. The courier won't steal the whole box. If he will steal the box, then I think the rest of the puzzle is moot because he'll just run away with all the boxes! :-) I won't ever need his key. He sends me just his box, unlocked, and hopefully the courier won't steal empty, unlocked boxes. I then place my key into the box and lock it, assuming the locking mechanism does not require his key. I then place the diamond into my own box and lock it. When all of this arrives on his side he'll have my box with the diamond in it and he'll have my key to open it. If either of my assumptions are wrong then a different method would be necessary. I personally liked the method someone else suggested where you lock the box up with the diamond in it, send it to the other person who then places his own lock on it (we're assuming that the locking mechanisms are separate from the boxes) and sends it back to you. You take your lock off and send it back to him. He removes his lock and now can get to the diamond in the box. #3. Why send diamonds by courier when they look so darned good on my hand or displayed on a delicate pendant dangling from a gold necklace laying precociously around my neck? That sounds like something my wife would say. :-) John Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40719t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
This test may sound stupid, but based on Mark's description I'd say they were attempting to assess creativity and troubleshooting skills. Sometimes pure technical skills aren't enough. Thinking outside the box is a big part of what an employer is looking for. I'd say a company as big as SNS has plenty of experience in hiring and knows what they're doing in making this part of the interview. Jay Dunn IPI*GrammTech, Ltd. www.ipi-gt.com Nunquam Facilis Est -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John Neiberger Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40569t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
That may be true, but it just sounds like something straight off the pages of Dilbert. :-) I know personally I wouldn't respond to such an interview well. If someone wants to test my creativity and troubleshooting, then they should mock up a lab and throw it at me. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to the idea of being psychologically tested during an interview. What's next, ink blot tests? Values clarification drills? Written personality tests? I can see it now: We're sorry, you're an INTJ but we really want an ESTJ for this position. Okay, I've got to stop answering email this early. :-) John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Jay Dunn ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: This test may sound stupid, but based on Mark's description I'd say they were attempting to assess creativity and troubleshooting skills. Sometimes pure technical skills aren't enough. Thinking outside the box is a big part of what an employer is looking for. I'd say a company as big as SNS has plenty of experience in hiring and knows what they're doing in making this part of the interview. Jay Dunn IPI*GrammTech, Ltd. www.ipi-gt.com Nunquam Facilis Est -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John Neiberger Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40576t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? You have to ask yourself whether or not you'd want to work for a company that does this type of screening. I would not have taken the job even if I did well. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40589t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My interview story [7:40553]
I agree with the summary, the desert game is used to develop team skills and inspire group communication allowing employees who are not outspoken to share in the decision making process. But this should not have been used as a 'one test' for hire decision. If that is so, the Human Resources dept has made errors that will eventually bring the effectiveness of the company/unit to zero, when that happens, higher ups will take a look and heads will roll. but the process can be too long. Mark should be glad he didn't get the job. Have a good day. Kevin McCarty CCNA CCNP Computer Sciences Corporation Defense Sector John NeibergerTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Sent by: nobody 04/04/2002 08:39 PM Please respond to John Neiberger Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40598t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
shoulda asked them if the network was currently down...and if it was where in the hell can I get some duct tape! Lomker, Michael 04/05/02 09:52AM large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? You have to ask yourself whether or not you'd want to work for a company that does this type of screening. I would not have taken the job even if I did well. Confidentiality Disclaimer This email and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential and /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar Health System, Inc. (WellStar) and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or copying of any information from this email is strictly prohibited, and may subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and then delete this email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40606t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Yeah, I4m on your side John. I applied for a permy position with a big insurance comp when times where a bit lean. I finally got an interview reply six weeks later calling me for an interview. It turned out being a two day interview, which I immediately knew was not for me. If people want to hire my skillset they read my CV call me in and try and beat me down technically. That being done, can I get on with people etc can surely be spotted inside 2 hours, unless they are plain stupid. Phil. --- John Neiberger wrote: That may be true, but it just sounds like something straight off the pages of Dilbert. :-) I know personally I wouldn't respond to such an interview well. If someone wants to test my creativity and troubleshooting, then they should mock up a lab and throw it at me. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to the idea of being psychologically tested during an interview. What's next, ink blot tests? Values clarification drills? Written personality tests? I can see it now: We're sorry, you're an INTJ but we really want an ESTJ for this position. Okay, I've got to stop answering email this early. :-) John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Jay Dunn ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: This test may sound stupid, but based on Mark's description I'd say they were attempting to assess creativity and troubleshooting skills. Sometimes pure technical skills aren't enough. Thinking outside the box is a big part of what an employer is looking for. I'd say a company as big as SNS has plenty of experience in hiring and knows what they're doing in making this part of the interview. Jay Dunn IPI*GrammTech, Ltd. www.ipi-gt.com Nunquam Facilis Est -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John Neiberger Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40607t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
When I moved back to Alaska from Omaha, I interviewed at a place that sent all of their candidates to a 'speciallist' who did personality tests. I responded well to the interview, but not the job offer. :) TTFN, Bill Pearch, GCI Telehealth Systems Manager Anchorge AK -Original Message- From: John Neiberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: My interview story [7:40553] That may be true, but it just sounds like something straight off the pages of Dilbert. :-) I know personally I wouldn't respond to such an interview well. If someone wants to test my creativity and troubleshooting, then they should mock up a lab and throw it at me. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to the idea of being psychologically tested during an interview. What's next, ink blot tests? Values clarification drills? Written personality tests? I can see it now: We're sorry, you're an INTJ but we really want an ESTJ for this position. Okay, I've got to stop answering email this early. :-) John [GroupStudy.com removed an attachment of type application/x-pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40615t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
I'd certainly agree that, in many cases, 2 hours is enough to ascertain the
presence or absence of communication skills and interpersonal
interoperability/evidence of the ability to play nice with others (although
I've certainly seen individuals slip through the cracks regarding the 2nd
characteristic, interviewing extremely well and then showing up to work with
a dramatically different and less cooperative personality).
However, I'd say that it's important to distinguish between various types of
technical interviews. Two or even three straight days of straightforward
technical questions will not necessarily provide insight into a candidate's
ability to learn or apply factual information in an unfamiliar context. I
agree that a mere willingness to learn or apply oneself cannot overcome a
dearth of experience for many roles performed by members of the professional
IT community, so it IS important to accurately assess someone's current
working skill set. However, I'd have to conclude that for many positions of
interest to people seeking CCIE numbers, some level of abstraction and
ability to cope with the unknown are highly desirable characteristics. All
too often, the OSI layer and show command syntax questions fail to
capture someone's potential to keep pace with the evolution of corporate
technology. I suppose my concern is that just as certain interviewing
techniques/styles can rule out promising candidates because they are too
abstract, focused technical interviews that are too simplistic can obscure
important differences in capability between sets of candidates. As usual,
the appropriate answer probably lies somewhere in between.
- Original Message -
From: Phil Barker
To:
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Yeah,
I4m on your side John. I applied for a permy
position with a big insurance comp when times where a
bit lean. I finally got an interview reply six weeks
later calling me for an interview. It turned out being
a two day interview, which I immediately knew was not
for me. If people want to hire my skillset they read
my CV call me in and try and beat me down technically.
That being done, can I get on with people etc can
surely be spotted inside 2 hours, unless they are
plain stupid.
Phil.
--- John Neiberger wrote: That
may be true, but it just sounds like something
straight
off the pages of Dilbert. :-)
I know personally I wouldn't respond to such an
interview
well. If someone wants to test my creativity and
troubleshooting, then they should mock up a lab and
throw it at
me. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to the idea
of being
psychologically tested during an interview.
What's next, ink blot tests? Values clarification
drills?
Written personality tests? I can see it now:
We're sorry,
you're an INTJ but we really want an ESTJ for this
position.
Okay, I've got to stop answering email this early.
:-)
John
On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Jay Dunn ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
This test may sound stupid, but based on Mark's
description
I'd say they
were attempting to assess creativity and
troubleshooting
skills.
Sometimes pure technical skills aren't enough.
Thinking outside the
box is a big part of what an employer is looking
for. I'd
say a company
as big as SNS has plenty of experience in hiring
and knows
what they're
doing in making this part of the interview.
Jay Dunn
IPI*GrammTech, Ltd.
www.ipi-gt.com
Nunquam Facilis Est
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of
John Neiberger
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553]
Why would you want to work for a place with such
stupid
interviews in the first place? If they select
their
employees
based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or
whatever
the
heck that was, then it's probably best you don't
work there.
I'm sure the management there is awful.
Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have
too much
time on their hands, and there's almost nothing
worse than a
clueless manager with too much time.
Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert
calendar!
I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you
should forget
about them and move on to a better company.
John
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at
9:00 AM.
The position is Network Engineer in
SNS(schlumberger
network
solutions
sector).But I falled,at least i think so.
At first,every candidater have a chance to
intraduce
oneself
for 1
minute in
English.Then every 5 person get a group to play
a game
named
Desert
Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some
people
Re: My interview story [7:40553]
Catbert has a little too much power in that department at Schlumberger. I would tell them to go take a hike. ;-) If they interview with games like that, think about what else they might make you do: 1) Go on team-building excursions while the mission-critical network is failing 2) Promise never to flirt with any of your co-workers 3) Attend monthly meetings that will help you learn how never to flirt with your co-workers 4) Pee in a cup while an HR flunky stands outside the stall 5) Get the company's mission statement tattooed on your chest 6) Agree to dress casually on just one day of the week (Friday) 7) Add 300-word messages to the bottom of all e-mails saying that the company can't be held accountable for what you say 8) Provide information on every pimple you ever had so that company insurance can say it was a pre-existing condition 9) Provide information about your personal insurance so if you have an accident while on a business trip the company can avoid incurring costs 10) Promise never to use words that HR doesn't understand but thinks sound vaguely illegal, such as pedagogical The last one really happened! See here: http://www.britishexpat.com/pfun/madoffice.htm Priscilla At 10:32 AM 4/5/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with the summary, the desert game is used to develop team skills and inspire group communication allowing employees who are not outspoken to share in the decision making process. But this should not have been used as a 'one test' for hire decision. If that is so, the Human Resources dept has made errors that will eventually bring the effectiveness of the company/unit to zero, when that happens, higher ups will take a look and heads will roll. but the process can be too long. Mark should be glad he didn't get the job. Have a good day. Kevin McCarty CCNA CCNP Computer Sciences Corporation Defense Sector John NeibergerTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Sent by: nobody 04/04/2002 08:39 PM Please respond to John Neiberger Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40624t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Guys; This scenario sounds like something straight from the book of my Project Management Course. Spelunking and Forest fire are the two other scenarios our groups of us were testing and developing our IT Project Management egos, we also get to play with logo blocks. It does work. I was as surprised with this approach as you seems to be, but it got me on a right track. It allows to qualify the project management skills. Kind Regards, Anna --- John Neiberger wrote: That may be true, but it just sounds like something straight off the pages of Dilbert. :-) I know personally I wouldn't respond to such an interview well. If someone wants to test my creativity and troubleshooting, then they should mock up a lab and throw it at me. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to the idea of being psychologically tested during an interview. What's next, ink blot tests? Values clarification drills? Written personality tests? I can see it now: We're sorry, you're an INTJ but we really want an ESTJ for this position. Okay, I've got to stop answering email this early. :-) John On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Jay Dunn ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: This test may sound stupid, but based on Mark's description I'd say they were attempting to assess creativity and troubleshooting skills. Sometimes pure technical skills aren't enough. Thinking outside the box is a big part of what an employer is looking for. I'd say a company as big as SNS has plenty of experience in hiring and knows what they're doing in making this part of the interview. Jay Dunn IPI*GrammTech, Ltd. www.ipi-gt.com Nunquam Facilis Est -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John Neiberger Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Music, Movies, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40628t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My interview story [7:40553]
That reminds me of what happened to the husband of a coworker. He worked for a division of GE and they had some social engineering week where everyone was supposed to wear the same colored T-shirt each day. For example, the first day everyone wears red. The second day they all were green, etc. Ugh... Aren't we here to do actual work and not waste time on this garbage? I think I'd wear black all week. ;-) Or, I might wear white claiming that white reflects all colors of the rainbow and I'm therefore it is the best choice of color for a politically correct wardrobe. I definitely would NOT rush out to buy a bunch of T-shirts just to satisfy such a silly requirement. I must reiterate that it is VERY dangerous for managers to have too much spare time! John Priscilla Oppenheimer 4/5/02 12:13:52 PM Catbert has a little too much power in that department at Schlumberger. I would tell them to go take a hike. ;-) If they interview with games like that, think about what else they might make you do: 1) Go on team-building excursions while the mission-critical network is failing 2) Promise never to flirt with any of your co-workers 3) Attend monthly meetings that will help you learn how never to flirt with your co-workers 4) Pee in a cup while an HR flunky stands outside the stall 5) Get the company's mission statement tattooed on your chest 6) Agree to dress casually on just one day of the week (Friday) 7) Add 300-word messages to the bottom of all e-mails saying that the company can't be held accountable for what you say 8) Provide information on every pimple you ever had so that company insurance can say it was a pre-existing condition 9) Provide information about your personal insurance so if you have an accident while on a business trip the company can avoid incurring costs 10) Promise never to use words that HR doesn't understand but thinks sound vaguely illegal, such as pedagogical The last one really happened! See here: http://www.britishexpat.com/pfun/madoffice.htm Priscilla At 10:32 AM 4/5/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with the summary, the desert game is used to develop team skills and inspire group communication allowing employees who are not outspoken to share in the decision making process. But this should not have been used as a 'one test' for hire decision. If that is so, the Human Resources dept has made errors that will eventually bring the effectiveness of the company/unit to zero, when that happens, higher ups will take a look and heads will roll. but the process can be too long. Mark should be glad he didn't get the job. Have a good day. Kevin McCarty CCNA CCNP Computer Sciences Corporation Defense Sector John NeibergerTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Sent by: nobody 04/04/2002 08:39 PM Please respond to John Neiberger Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40629t=40553
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
As soon as someone said you have to play a game I would take my stuff and leave. What would happen when you actually got the job? They would feed you peanuts, and have you shufflin', smilin' and dancing for the VPs? I don't play that game. Most of the interviews I have gone on, they asked me very few questions. I guess my track record and resume' tells a lot of the story. I think the way you present your ideas, and hold a conversation is important. They make small talk so they can envision how you will fit in with the company. Like they asked me about sports although I don't like sports, I made up something like yea, how about this stadium or something. I guess that was good because it showed I wasn't totally ignorant and was able to think on my feet. Interviews are usually mostly a sales pitch from you. You are selling yourself to them. But playing games crosses the line, I am a professional, and that is kind of degrading in my opinion. On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40633t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My interview story [7:40553]
Strange and silly as some of these games seem, it is often the case that many high-profile companies, tech or otherwise, incorporate these games into their hiring processes. Microsoft in the old days, for example, used to make extensive use of this kind of game role-playing in their interviews (don't know whether they do that anymore). Oracle too (one possibly apocryphal story - when Oracle was starting out, Oracle would ask a candidates who were coming straight out of college whether he was the smartest student he knew, if the candidate answered 'yes', then the candidate qualified for a round-2 interview, but if the candidate said no, then Oracle would ask then if you're not the smartest student you know, then who is, and then they would try to hire that person). Management consultancies and Wall-Street investment banks are also notorious for this as well. You may say to yourself that these games are ridiculous and ask yourself why you have to jump through these silly hoops, and how management is dumb for forcing candidates to go through these games, and yes that's true, but sometimes the position is worth it. I for one definitely wouldn't have minded getting into Microsoft in, say, 1990. John Neiberger wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... That reminds me of what happened to the husband of a coworker. He worked for a division of GE and they had some social engineering week where everyone was supposed to wear the same colored T-shirt each day. For example, the first day everyone wears red. The second day they all were green, etc. Ugh... Aren't we here to do actual work and not waste time on this garbage? I think I'd wear black all week. ;-) Or, I might wear white claiming that white reflects all colors of the rainbow and I'm therefore it is the best choice of color for a politically correct wardrobe. I definitely would NOT rush out to buy a bunch of T-shirts just to satisfy such a silly requirement. I must reiterate that it is VERY dangerous for managers to have too much spare time! John Priscilla Oppenheimer 4/5/02 12:13:52 PM Catbert has a little too much power in that department at Schlumberger. I would tell them to go take a hike. ;-) If they interview with games like that, think about what else they might make you do: 1) Go on team-building excursions while the mission-critical network is failing 2) Promise never to flirt with any of your co-workers 3) Attend monthly meetings that will help you learn how never to flirt with your co-workers 4) Pee in a cup while an HR flunky stands outside the stall 5) Get the company's mission statement tattooed on your chest 6) Agree to dress casually on just one day of the week (Friday) 7) Add 300-word messages to the bottom of all e-mails saying that the company can't be held accountable for what you say 8) Provide information on every pimple you ever had so that company insurance can say it was a pre-existing condition 9) Provide information about your personal insurance so if you have an accident while on a business trip the company can avoid incurring costs 10) Promise never to use words that HR doesn't understand but thinks sound vaguely illegal, such as pedagogical The last one really happened! See here: http://www.britishexpat.com/pfun/madoffice.htm Priscilla At 10:32 AM 4/5/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with the summary, the desert game is used to develop team skills and inspire group communication allowing employees who are not outspoken to share in the decision making process. But this should not have been used as a 'one test' for hire decision. If that is so, the Human Resources dept has made errors that will eventually bring the effectiveness of the company/unit to zero, when that happens, higher ups will take a look and heads will roll. but the process can be too long. Mark should be glad he didn't get the job. Have a good day. Kevin McCarty CCNA CCNP Computer Sciences Corporation Defense Sector John NeibergerTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Sent by: nobody 04/04/2002 08:39 PM Please respond to John Neiberger Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget ab
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
I haven't heard of any role-playing, but Microsoft does implement logic puzzles into the interviews, which are usually connected with 3 or more people individually. The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. -Original Message- From: nrf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Strange and silly as some of these games seem, it is often the case that many high-profile companies, tech or otherwise, incorporate these games into their hiring processes. Microsoft in the old days, for example, used to make extensive use of this kind of game role-playing in their interviews (don't know whether they do that anymore). Oracle too (one possibly apocryphal story - when Oracle was starting out, Oracle would ask a candidates who were coming straight out of college whether he was the smartest student he knew, if the candidate answered 'yes', then the candidate qualified for a round-2 interview, but if the candidate said no, then Oracle would ask then if you're not the smartest student you know, then who is, and then they would try to hire that person). Management consultancies and Wall-Street investment banks are also notorious for this as well. You may say to yourself that these games are ridiculous and ask yourself why you have to jump through these silly hoops, and how management is dumb for forcing candidates to go through these games, and yes that's true, but sometimes the position is worth it. I for one definitely wouldn't have minded getting into Microsoft in, say, 1990. John Neiberger wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... That reminds me of what happened to the husband of a coworker. He worked for a division of GE and they had some social engineering week where everyone was supposed to wear the same colored T-shirt each day. For example, the first day everyone wears red. The second day they all were green, etc. Ugh... Aren't we here to do actual work and not waste time on this garbage? I think I'd wear black all week. ;-) Or, I might wear white claiming that white reflects all colors of the rainbow and I'm therefore it is the best choice of color for a politically correct wardrobe. I definitely would NOT rush out to buy a bunch of T-shirts just to satisfy such a silly requirement. I must reiterate that it is VERY dangerous for managers to have too much spare time! John Priscilla Oppenheimer 4/5/02 12:13:52 PM Catbert has a little too much power in that department at Schlumberger. I would tell them to go take a hike. ;-) If they interview with games like that, think about what else they might make you do: 1) Go on team-building excursions while the mission-critical network is failing 2) Promise never to flirt with any of your co-workers 3) Attend monthly meetings that will help you learn how never to flirt with your co-workers 4) Pee in a cup while an HR flunky stands outside the stall 5) Get the company's mission statement tattooed on your chest 6) Agree to dress casually on just one day of the week (Friday) 7) Add 300-word messages to the bottom of all e-mails saying that the company can't be held accountable for what you say 8) Provide information on every pimple you ever had so that company insurance can say it was a pre-existing condition 9) Provide information about your personal insurance so if you have an accident while on a business trip the company can avoid incurring costs 10) Promise never to use words that HR doesn't understand but thinks sound vaguely illegal, such as pedagogical The last one really happened! See here: http://www.britishexpat.com/pfun/madoffice.htm Priscilla At 10:32 AM 4/5/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with the summary, the desert game is used to develop team skills and inspire group communication allowing employees who are not outspoken to share in the decision making process. But this should not have been used as a 'one test' for hire decision. If that is so, the Human Resources dept has made errors that will eventually bring the effectiveness of the company/unit to zero, when that happens, higher ups will take a look and heads will roll. but the process can be too long. Mark should be glad he didn't get the job.
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
I haven't heard of any role-playing, but Microsoft does implement logic puzzles into the interviews, which are usually connected with 3 or more people individually. The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, a lock, and a key for his lock. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. -Original Message- From: nrf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Strange and silly as some of these games seem, it is often the case that many high-profile companies, tech or otherwise, incorporate these games into their hiring processes. Microsoft in the old days, for example, used to make extensive use of this kind of game role-playing in their interviews (don't know whether they do that anymore). Oracle too (one possibly apocryphal story - when Oracle was starting out, Oracle would ask a candidates who were coming straight out of college whether he was the smartest student he knew, if the candidate answered 'yes', then the candidate qualified for a round-2 interview, but if the candidate said no, then Oracle would ask then if you're not the smartest student you know, then who is, and then they would try to hire that person). Management consultancies and Wall-Street investment banks are also notorious for this as well. You may say to yourself that these games are ridiculous and ask yourself why you have to jump through these silly hoops, and how management is dumb for forcing candidates to go through these games, and yes that's true, but sometimes the position is worth it. I for one definitely wouldn't have minded getting into Microsoft in, say, 1990. John Neiberger wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... That reminds me of what happened to the husband of a coworker. He worked for a division of GE and they had some social engineering week where everyone was supposed to wear the same colored T-shirt each day. For example, the first day everyone wears red. The second day they all were green, etc. Ugh... Aren't we here to do actual work and not waste time on this garbage? I think I'd wear black all week. ;-) Or, I might wear white claiming that white reflects all colors of the rainbow and I'm therefore it is the best choice of color for a politically correct wardrobe. I definitely would NOT rush out to buy a bunch of T-shirts just to satisfy such a silly requirement. I must reiterate that it is VERY dangerous for managers to have too much spare time! John Priscilla Oppenheimer 4/5/02 12:13:52 PM Catbert has a little too much power in that department at Schlumberger. I would tell them to go take a hike. ;-) If they interview with games like that, think about what else they might make you do: 1) Go on team-building excursions while the mission-critical network is failing 2) Promise never to flirt with any of your co-workers 3) Attend monthly meetings that will help you learn how never to flirt with your co-workers 4) Pee in a cup while an HR flunky stands outside the stall 5) Get the company's mission statement tattooed on your chest 6) Agree to dress casually on just one day of the week (Friday) 7) Add 300-word messages to the bottom of all e-mails saying that the company can't be held accountable for what you say 8) Provide information on every pimple you ever had so that company insurance can say it was a pre-existing condition 9) Provide information about your personal insurance so if you have an accident while on a business trip the company can avoid incurring costs 10) Promise never to use words that HR doesn't understand but thinks sound vaguely illegal, such as pedagogical The last one really happened! See here: http://www.britishexpat.com/pfun/madoffice.htm Priscilla At 10:32 AM 4/5/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with the summary, the desert game is used to develop team skills and inspire group communication allowing employees who are not outspoken to share in the decision making process. But this should not have been used as a 'one test' for hire decision. If that is so, the Human Resources dept has made errors that will eventually bring the effectiveness of the company/unit to zero, when that happens, higher ups will take a look and heads will roll. but the process can be too long. Mark should be glad he didn't get
Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40668t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Daniel, I think the first answer could be just lock the stone in the box, give the box and your key to the courier. Kent Daniel Cotts wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40669t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Having recently completed the Aircraft Survival game with a room full of fellow pilots, I can't say that the game was able to determine how people thought, but rather, how people acted within a team environment. Does an individual give in immediately when confronted by others? Does the individual draw logical conclusions? Do they integrate ideas of others into their thinking? Or are they stubborn and impose their views on the group? Having done the exercise alone at first, and then as part of a group, my thinking was substantially different than that of what we accomplished as a group - which is to be expected, because we all have different life experiences from which to draw upon. Personally, I thought Macleans magazine would rank high up in survivability importance because of its flammability - but neither my team nor the scenerio designers concurred. Does this mean my thinking is flawed? Heck no! I've watched Survivor - and I've seen how hard it is for the average Joe to start a fire. If I'm stranded, I want to make sure I've got the ability to boil water to keep me healthy while I wait to be rescued. Now because this item was ranked by survival experts as the least important item, does it mean that I lost the game? And what about the fact my fellow team members thought about using locking wire to make animal snares or fishing hooks. I never thought of that. Again--would I be ranked below other candidates that do a little more outdoors survival stuff than myself? Heck no! As I said--the exercise is more about how you function in a group, rather than on what choices you actually made. I can see an employer using this as a tool to discern your ability to fit into a team environment... Likely the interview was done by someone who just went through it and without thinking about the ramifications of doing something like this in an interview situation (who's ever heard of a group interview for a job before? YIKES!) thought they'd try it out for size. -- Leigh Anne -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dusty Harper Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] I haven't heard of any role-playing, but Microsoft does implement logic puzzles into the interviews, which are usually connected with 3 or more people individually. The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, a lock, and a key for his lock. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. -Original Message- From: nrf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Strange and silly as some of these games seem, it is often the case that many high-profile companies, tech or otherwise, incorporate these games into their hiring processes. Microsoft in the old days, for example, used to make extensive use of this kind of game role-playing in their interviews (don't know whether they do that anymore). Oracle too (one possibly apocryphal story - when Oracle was starting out, Oracle would ask a candidates who were coming straight out of college whether he was the smartest student he knew, if the candidate answered 'yes', then the candidate qualified for a round-2 interview, but if the candidate said no, then Oracle would ask then if you're not the smartest student you know, then who is, and then they would try to hire that person). Management consultancies and Wall-Street investment banks are also notorious for this as well. You may say to yourself that these games are ridiculous and ask yourself why you have to jump through these silly hoops, and how management is dumb for forcing candidates to go through these games, and yes that's true, but sometimes the position is worth it. I for one definitely wouldn't have minded getting into Microsoft in, say, 1990. John Neiberger wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... That reminds me of what happened to the husband of a coworker. He worked for a division of GE and they had some social engineering week where everyone was supposed to wear the same colored T-shirt each day. For example, the first day everyone wears red. The second day they all were green, etc. Ugh... Aren't we here to do actual work and not waste time on this garbage? I think I'd wear black all week. ;-) Or, I might wear white
Re: Puzzles - WAS RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Part A: I heard this one where the friend also has a key that will open his lock, but not yours. Also, the condition is that no destructive techniques are allowed, so breaking or cutting wasn't a possible solution. Part B: He never states that the rope is attached to the top of the pole, just that it's attached to the pole. So, the answer is that the poles are somewhere between 0 and 32 feet apart. Craig At 11:33 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: I'll bite. a) Boxes and diamond. Gordian Knot technique. Lock the diamond in your box and send it to your friend. He breaks the lock or cuts open the box. b) Poles and rope. The poles are touching. -Original Message- From: Dusty Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: My interview story [7:40553] The goal is to determine how you think. Most real world solutions to problems can be applied to technological hurdles, or problems. As an example: Prep: You have an empty box, a lock, a key for your lock, and a diamond. Your friend has an empty box, and a lock for his box. Goal: You want to get the diamond to your friend via courier. However the courier will steal anything that is not locked. How do you do this? Another example: If you have 2 20' poles, a 32' rope strung between them, and the lowest point of the rope is 4' off of the ground, how far apart are the poles? It gauges how one thinks and handles situations. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40674t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My interview story [7:40553]
Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40556t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My interview story [7:40553]
Well stated. Clayton Dukes Cisco Info Center SE Micromuse, Inc. CCNA, CCDA, CCDP, CCNP, NCC - Original Message - From: John Neiberger To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:39 PM Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40558t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My interview story [7:40553]
Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John I have a friend that used to work in Schlumberger as a technical patent paralegal, and she loved the place. Don't know how typical her experience or yours is, but I can check with her to see if this is anything she's heard. I'm not totally opposed, incidentally, to tests like that IF THERE IS ALSO SOLID TECHNICAL INTERVIEWING, and the job needs good communications skills (the introduction) and possibly the ability to handle multiple items under stress (the desert). I do believe when you play with peoples' heads like this, it's only fair that the interviewers explain what they were trying to learn. When I'm interviewing people, I suppose I ask some questions that are intended to help me learn the way the candidate thinks. For example, once we've talked a bit and I have a pretty good knowledge of their background, I pose a problem to them that I'm fairly sure they can't answer. I tell them that I don't expect them to give me a correct answer, but to explain to me how they would approach getting information and coming up with a solution. That tells me a couple of things -- are they willing to say I don't know, and But this is how I'll find out. I also tend to ask ok, tell me what you do that's weird. In this business, there has to be something. Again, it tests flexibility and communication. On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40561t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: My interview story [7:40553]
Mark I work in SNS. I joined a few months back. My interview experience was totally different than what you're describing. In fact their interviews were the most technical I had seen in my life. What I was not happy about is that they took forever to get back to us. Also from what I've seen so far and heard from people here, the environment is very highly technical all over the company. They don't believe in non-tech management, all the way up to the CEO, something that is even criticized by some. I haven't yet seen anyone who has any free time on their hands either. I wish I had some myself :) But again I'm in one part of a 80,000+ employee company, so I don't really know how things are elsewhere in the company. I agree with Howard, interviews are supposed to test other areas of a person's skills in addition to the technical background. However, techies (and I'm one) always dread those interviews. Good luck Tarek -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Howard C. Berkowitz Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My interview story [7:40553] Why would you want to work for a place with such stupid interviews in the first place? If they select their employees based on how they play Stranded in the Desert or whatever the heck that was, then it's probably best you don't work there. I'm sure the management there is awful. Stuff like that is a sure sign their managers have too much time on their hands, and there's almost nothing worse than a clueless manager with too much time. Someone needs to send those managers a Dilbert calendar! I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, but you should forget about them and move on to a better company. John I have a friend that used to work in Schlumberger as a technical patent paralegal, and she loved the place. Don't know how typical her experience or yours is, but I can check with her to see if this is anything she's heard. I'm not totally opposed, incidentally, to tests like that IF THERE IS ALSO SOLID TECHNICAL INTERVIEWING, and the job needs good communications skills (the introduction) and possibly the ability to handle multiple items under stress (the desert). I do believe when you play with peoples' heads like this, it's only fair that the interviewers explain what they were trying to learn. When I'm interviewing people, I suppose I ask some questions that are intended to help me learn the way the candidate thinks. For example, once we've talked a bit and I have a pretty good knowledge of their background, I pose a problem to them that I'm fairly sure they can't answer. I tell them that I don't expect them to give me a correct answer, but to explain to me how they would approach getting information and coming up with a solution. That tells me a couple of things -- are they willing to say I don't know, and But this is how I'll find out. I also tend to ask ok, tell me what you do that's weird. In this business, there has to be something. Again, it tests flexibility and communication. On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Mark Zhang ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: hi,everybody,I have a interview appointment at 9:00 AM. The position is Network Engineer in SNS(schlumberger network solutions sector).But I falled,at least i think so. At first,every candidater have a chance to intraduce oneself for 1 minute in English.Then every 5 person get a group to play a game named Desert Survive.Game as this:Just image you and some people lose in a deep desert by an airplane problem,so plz list the most important thing to the lest from 15 tools you could use,first time by your own choose,the second by your group. Maybe I do not show good in the self-introduce,then I paly the game,I choose more close to the expert answer the my group,but the schlumberger do not think I as the right person they are looking for. what a pity!I experienced in Motorola and a network company,have design a large scare voip network include about 40 nods,familiar with Cisco,But why?Just because a lose in the game? B.RMark Zhang - Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40563t=40553 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
