RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Hi John, I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain degree. Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome networking discussion in general that is related to being a network engineer. In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that or listen to CCIEs only. Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so should we exclude listening to them about running a business? Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they do not have a certain cert. - Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42998&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
I don't see this as an issue. ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several months now > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate this > particular issue. > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level experts > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't Cisco-specific and > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate other > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth studying > are Cisco-related. > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts aren't even > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true expert > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP with > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you we don't > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless of > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress to > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward the easily > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to answer posts. > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this problem. We > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > Regards, > > John advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting certification. > Thanks.) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43010&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
John, hehehe, I get it now... I have been talking back and forth with others on the post and they told me what you were trying to do. I did not even notice the flame at the other list has started on the NP side as well. - Paul CCIE #8960 (and yes, I read Howard's posts and learn from it as well) :-) John Neiberger wrote: I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. John Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43013&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
I'm glad you're just sending regards today, 'cause I'd send Rebecca right back with your love. What you just posted was 2 things. 1) It was not about cisco equipment, thus by your argument it should not have been posted. 2) It was quite possibly the most arrogant thing I have ever seen anyone post here. While I will NEVER claim to be perfect or always correct (I am frequently wrong, but usually catch myself before posting), I have to believe that with all the studying I have done, I have something to add to the discussions. This is not a strict issue/resolution forum. We are not here to simply leech configs. It is, last I checked, a discussion group for those aspiring to the highest standards in networking knowlege. Remember, the CCIE has no prereq's, so lack of certs means precisely zero. FOR INSTANCE: Our own darling Priscilla Oppenheimer, generally agreed to be at the level of Network Goddess, does not have her CCIE. So, by your rule, she who has been networking since I entered kindergarden would not be qualified to post here. Don't put too much weight on certs. When you get down to it, they're mostly just letters. Sorry for the tirade, guys, but that really bugged me. *dismounts soapbox* --Tim, CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I, UPoAR, sorry, no parenting cert. (thankfully, I have not spawned... could you imagine?) John Neiberger wrote: > > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several > months now > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate > this > particular issue. > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level > experts > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't > Cisco-specific and > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate > other > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth > studying > are Cisco-related. > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts > aren't even > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true > expert > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP > with > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you > we don't > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless > of > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress > to > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward > the easily > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to > answer posts. > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this > problem. We > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > Regards, > > John parenting > advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting > certification. > Thanks.) > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43017&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
wow... I'm glad you were joking. there were 5 posts while I wrote mine! --Tim Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43018&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
I believe the original e-mail was sarcastic. I don't believe anyone could truly be that closed minded. I suspect that it was a knock at those that who think that someone can only know what they are talking about if they have The 4 letters and 4 numbers after their name. Thanks Larry -Original Message- From: Paul Jin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996] Hi John, I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain degree. Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome networking discussion in general that is related to being a network engineer. In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that or listen to CCIEs only. Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so should we exclude listening to them about running a business? Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they do not have a certain cert. - Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43022&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
IIRC, as the UNIX folk put it, John and his coprocessor just spawned a child process, and haven't learned to deal with the rate of asynchronous signals. They also are getting hands-on experience with the leaky bucket algorithm. At 3:33 PM -0400 5/1/02, Paul Jin wrote: >John, > >hehehe, I get it now... I have been talking back and forth with others on >the post and they told >me what you were trying to do. > >I did not even notice the flame at the other list has started on the NP side >as well. > >- Paul >CCIE #8960 (and yes, I read Howard's posts and learn from it as well) > :-) > > John Neiberger wrote: > >I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my >previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as >expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully >accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. > >I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going >on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on >the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to >me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an >amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and >troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants >feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. > >I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm >particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability >to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. > >John Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43030&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
too be honest There's not enough ccie's in the world to support all the
study groups...
I think off topic conversations do exist but are fairly maintanable and
generally do not get out of hand. I would hope that the users of this list
do not expect it to be ALL CISCO as the name would imply. Part of being a
CCIE is the fact that you are an internet engineer with vast experience.
The CC in front just means that cisco certified you as far as I am concerned.
If you are truly using this list to study by, the conversations herein
should be a wakeup call to those who have tunnel vision. I would hate to
think you would consider studying for your ccnp/ccie and not discuss things
that are not related to catos or ios.
What happens when you move into a unix/rip routed network and you need to
supply connectivity to boston from atlanta... Chances are you are not going
to purchase a serial card for your server. Rather purchase a router...so
now you have a 2501 off ebay and you are connecting to a 3com office
connect on the other side. what do you do?
should that not be discussed here?
-Patrick
my $.02
-Patrick
>>> "Paul Jin" 05/01/02 02:18PM >>>
Hi John,
I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain
degree.
Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is
dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is
a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing,
the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome
networking discussion in general that is related to being a
network engineer.
In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that
is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think
talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer.
My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is
my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that
or listen to CCIEs only.
Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but
there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so should
we exclude listening to them about running a business?
Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they
do not have a certain cert.
- Paul
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Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
That's a good one John. This has got to be one of the funniest posts I've ever seen. I'm trying to figure out if you're serious or just trolling. Some of the best networkers I know have no certifications and never will cause they believe that it's all marketing hype and driven by companies looking to profit off the certification craze, which is probably not far from the truth. How many hundreds of millions have been made by certification testing and training companies each year? I bet the number might shock us all. Could you please explain why a CCIE's answer should never be questioned and a non-CCIE answer should never be trusted? Doesn't a little thing called experience come into play? I'd have to say that your impression "to be a guru, you have to be a CCIE" is ludicrous. I know several guru's with no certs. Also, does that work in reverse? To be a CCIE, you have to be a guru? I would say not anymore. What about the brain dump, NDA violating, lab rat, CCIE's that are minted every day lately? Believe me you wouldn't want to listen to a word they say about anything network related. I met one CCIE that was so lame he didn't even deserve to be an MCSE. He had never touched a production router and had never seen a datacenter. I also understand there is a certain web site in China that is selling actual CCIE lab exams (or so they claim... but I wouldn't doubt it for a second). So I guess we'll have to say... sorry Priscilla Oppenheimer... no more posts from you... unless you get your number or if you have a question for one of us CCIE's (Sorry to single you out Priscilla but you were the first non-CCIE guru that came to my feable mind) ;-) So I guess I have to ask one more time... were you serious??? And BTW, yes I have my number so you can trust my opinions ;-) Congrats on the new addition to the family BTW! JR -- Johnny Routin The "Routin" One ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several months now > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate this > particular issue. > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level experts > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't Cisco-specific and > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate other > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth studying > are Cisco-related. > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts aren't even > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true expert > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP with > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you we don't > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless of > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress to > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward the easily > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to answer posts. > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this problem. We > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > Regards, > > John advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting certification. > Thanks.) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43002&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Just to clarify, John is a friend and I immediately took it as a joke. If it wasn't, I'll turn him into a Bay AN. :-) Howard At 4:02 PM -0400 5/1/02, Roberts, Larry wrote: >I believe the original e-mail was sarcastic. I don't believe anyone could >truly be that closed minded. >I suspect that it was a knock at those that who think that someone can only >know what they are talking about if they have >The 4 letters and 4 numbers after their name. > >Thanks > >Larry > >-Original Message- >From: Paul Jin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:18 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996] > > >Hi John, > >I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain degree. > >Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is >dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is a cisco world. I am not >saying we should start discussing, the difference between VB and C++ here >but I still welcome networking discussion in general that is related to >being a network engineer. > >In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that is totally >irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think talking only about >Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. > >My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is my main >product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that or listen to >CCIEs only. > >Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but >there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so should >we exclude listening to them about running a business? > >Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they >do not have a certain cert. > >- Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43036&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
This is very true! I think we're due for an upgrade to allow for better multitasking. With current hardware I'm used to remaining in a sleep state for longer periods but this child process causes both processors to awaken more often than normal. This excess processor usage is causing some problems with overheating so we're also determing ways to resolve the cooling issue. I've also noticed an increased number of processing errors while in an active state. The processor seems to hang up a lot, quite often requiring a reboot (nap, caffeine). >>> "Howard C. Berkowitz" 5/1/02 2:29:47 PM >>> IIRC, as the UNIX folk put it, John and his coprocessor just spawned a child process, and haven't learned to deal with the rate of asynchronous signals. They also are getting hands-on experience with the leaky bucket algorithm. At 3:33 PM -0400 5/1/02, Paul Jin wrote: >John, > >hehehe, I get it now... I have been talking back and forth with others on >the post and they told >me what you were trying to do. > >I did not even notice the flame at the other list has started on the NP side >as well. > >- Paul >CCIE #8960 (and yes, I read Howard's posts and learn from it as well) > :-) > > John Neiberger wrote: > >I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my >previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as >expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully >accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. > >I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going >on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on >the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to >me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an >amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and >troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants >feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. > >I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm >particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability >to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. > >John Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43037&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
John, I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I don't think you have gone far enough. I would tar & feather all posters who fail to remain ON TOPIC!! Especially, those posts beginning with "I have a customer.!" BTW, I am a CCGP (Cisco Certified Grand Parent) in child rearing and will be happy to provide you with all the advise you need. HTH, Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy (P.S. Just kidding folks) :) John Neiberger wrote: > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several months now > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate this > particular issue. > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level experts > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't Cisco-specific and > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate other > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth studying > are Cisco-related. > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts aren't even > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true expert > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP with > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you we don't > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless of > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress to > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward the easily > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to answer posts. > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this problem. We > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > Regards, > > John advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting certification. > Thanks.) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43044&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
You'll have to catch my followup post. I was *completely* kidding! Usually, I'm better at wording sarcastic posts so that it's quite obvious. In this case, I didn't do a very good job because only the people who know me seem to caught the joke. Others have been sending fairly nasty emails. :-) The point that I didn't make very well is that -- especially in Howard's case -- certs are meaningless. That guy has forgotten more about networking than most of us will ever learn. For some reason, he seems to draw a lot of fire from some list members because he hasn't taken the CCIE lab. That's like asking a space shuttle astronaut to go back and re-qualify on a Cessna. Hope that straightens things out, John >>> "timothy thielen" 5/1/02 1:41:57 PM >>> I'm glad you're just sending regards today, 'cause I'd send Rebecca right back with your love. What you just posted was 2 things. 1) It was not about cisco equipment, thus by your argument it should not have been posted. 2) It was quite possibly the most arrogant thing I have ever seen anyone post here. While I will NEVER claim to be perfect or always correct (I am frequently wrong, but usually catch myself before posting), I have to believe that with all the studying I have done, I have something to add to the discussions. This is not a strict issue/resolution forum. We are not here to simply leech configs. It is, last I checked, a discussion group for those aspiring to the highest standards in networking knowlege. Remember, the CCIE has no prereq's, so lack of certs means precisely zero. FOR INSTANCE: Our own darling Priscilla Oppenheimer, generally agreed to be at the level of Network Goddess, does not have her CCIE. So, by your rule, she who has been networking since I entered kindergarden would not be qualified to post here. Don't put too much weight on certs. When you get down to it, they're mostly just letters. Sorry for the tirade, guys, but that really bugged me. *dismounts soapbox* --Tim, CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I, UPoAR, sorry, no parenting cert. (thankfully, I have not spawned... could you imagine?) John Neiberger wrote: > > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several > months now > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate > this > particular issue. > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level > experts > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't > Cisco-specific and > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate > other > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth > studying > are Cisco-related. > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts > aren't even > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true > expert > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP > with > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you > we don't > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless > of > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress > to > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward > the easily > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to > answer posts. > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this > problem. We > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > Regards, > > John parenting > advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting > certification. > Thanks.) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43024&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
My opinion: Certs really don't compare with actual real world experience. I am certified but know people who aren't that know way more than I do because they've been out in the field for so long. People need to realize that it's a whole different world out there once they start working in this particular field. There is so much more to take into consideration when you're working with actual Cisco routers and switches in a production environment (different vendors, circuits, telcos, etc.). New people that come into our organization (EDS) are literally shocked when they realize that their Cisco certifications give them a decent starting point, but the real world experience is the only thing that will bring them up to speed regarding the whole picture. So, we need both Cisco certified and non-certified people posting on this group. Both can contribute helpful posts depending on the questions asked and the experience they possess. Shawn K. eds.com ccxxproductions.com > -Original Message- > From: Paul Jin [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:18 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996] > > Hi John, > > I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain > degree. > > Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is > dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is > a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, > the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome > networking discussion in general that is related to being a > network engineer. > > In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that > is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think > talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. > > My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is > my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that > or listen to CCIEs only. > > Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but > there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so > should > we exclude listening to them about running a business? > > Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they > do not have a certain cert. > > - Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43019&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Hi, I had to agree with John's statement. I've been innetworking for a mere 8 years and I've met ppl who doesnt have any certs but they are far better than CCIE ( the ones that Ive met. not all CCIEs though ... so dont get mad at me ... :) ). I also had worked with a CCIE once and frankly, he is no better than me. Certification doesnt guarantee that you will be the best, for me experience is the best thing, but you do need certs to go far, atleast here where im working at. I met this one old chap who doesnt have any certifications but even CCIE refers to him. -nict- -Original Message- From: John Neiberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996] You'll have to catch my followup post. I was *completely* kidding! Usually, I'm better at wording sarcastic posts so that it's quite obvious. In this case, I didn't do a very good job because only the people who know me seem to caught the joke. Others have been sending fairly nasty emails. :-) The point that I didn't make very well is that -- especially in Howard's case -- certs are meaningless. That guy has forgotten more about networking than most of us will ever learn. For some reason, he seems to draw a lot of fire from some list members because he hasn't taken the CCIE lab. That's like asking a space shuttle astronaut to go back and re-qualify on a Cessna. Hope that straightens things out, John >>> "timothy thielen" 5/1/02 1:41:57 PM >>> I'm glad you're just sending regards today, 'cause I'd send Rebecca right back with your love. What you just posted was 2 things. 1) It was not about cisco equipment, thus by your argument it should not have been posted. 2) It was quite possibly the most arrogant thing I have ever seen anyone post here. While I will NEVER claim to be perfect or always correct (I am frequently wrong, but usually catch myself before posting), I have to believe that with all the studying I have done, I have something to add to the discussions. This is not a strict issue/resolution forum. We are not here to simply leech configs. It is, last I checked, a discussion group for those aspiring to the highest standards in networking knowlege. Remember, the CCIE has no prereq's, so lack of certs means precisely zero. FOR INSTANCE: Our own darling Priscilla Oppenheimer, generally agreed to be at the level of Network Goddess, does not have her CCIE. So, by your rule, she who has been networking since I entered kindergarden would not be qualified to post here. Don't put too much weight on certs. When you get down to it, they're mostly just letters. Sorry for the tirade, guys, but that really bugged me. *dismounts soapbox* --Tim, CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I, UPoAR, sorry, no parenting cert. (thankfully, I have not spawned... could you imagine?) John Neiberger wrote: > > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several > months now > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate > this > particular issue. > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level > experts > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't > Cisco-specific and > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate > other > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth > studying > are Cisco-related. > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts > aren't even > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true > expert > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP > with > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you > we don't > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless > of > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress > to > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward > the easily > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to > answer posts. > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this > problem. We > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > Regards, > > John parenting > advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting > certification. > Thanks.) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43065&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Ok. After reading all the responses in this thread and then re-reading John's inital post. I must confess it was truly funny. It's more than sarcastic and it put a big grin on my face. Wayne ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several months now > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate this > particular issue. > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level experts > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't Cisco-specific and > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate other > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth studying > are Cisco-related. > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts aren't even > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true expert > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP with > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you we don't > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless of > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress to > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward the easily > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to answer posts. > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this problem. We > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > Regards, > > John advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting certification. > Thanks.) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43081&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Cool!!!
Hey I just got married. Do you know any CCMC- Cisco Certified Marriage
Counselors?
And for the parents-in-law...how do I config the PIX to deny them access?
How about an ACL or an ability to route their airplane to China when they
come and visit?
Thanks,
Theo,
CSS1, CCNP
"Tom Lisa"
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 07:03 AM
Please respond to "Tom Lisa"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
John,
I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I don't think you have gone far
enough. I would tar & feather all posters who fail to remain ON TOPIC!!
Especially, those posts beginning with "I have a customer.!" BTW, I
am a CCGP (Cisco Certified Grand Parent) in child rearing and will be
happy to provide you with all the advise you need.
HTH,
Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI
Community College of Southern Nevada
Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy
(P.S. Just kidding folks) :)
John Neiberger wrote:
> I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several months now
> and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate this
> particular issue.
>
> As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level experts
> that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent
> networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't Cisco-specific and
> as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate other
> members of the list who understand that the only topics worth studying
> are Cisco-related.
>
> To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts aren't even
> Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true expert
> one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP with
> multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you we don't
> see those initials in your email sigs??
>
> Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless of
> there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress to
> certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward the easily
> annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to answer posts.
> I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this problem. We
> must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks.
>
> Regards,
>
> John advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting certification.
> Thanks.)
Message Posted at:
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RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Knowing what to areas to study for a certification and knowing day-to-day real life scenarios are two different things. A CCIE could just study what is needed for the test, but there is no human being that knows everything about every area of networking, its impossible. Take any 2 people in networking; each will know something the other doesn't. Don't even post that garbage here. That wasn't a joke. If you don't like the list, get off of it. You are trying to antagonize people. If you are not posting helpful information, then just keep your lame post to yourself. You don't know everything so be quiet. Never mind about CCIE, I think ignorant people who post junk like this shouldn't be allowed to post. Thanks to all of your helpful people in the group. This is a great group, and its an invaluable tool to some of us. I really hope we can avoid the sour grapes posts, and direct those people to there own newsgroups. Or we could start a newgroups for them sourgrapes@ciscostudy. Brian Zeitz MCSE, CCNP Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43115&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Theo, I'm afraid that all PIL's are also Future CCGP's and therefore are extremely adept at getting through any PIX or ACL. They will also generate numerous spams requesting information on how much longer they have to wait before they can take the CCGP practical exam. Learn to live with it. :) Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI, CCGP Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Cool!!! > > Hey I just got married. Do you know any CCMC- Cisco Certified Marriage > Counselors? > > And for the parents-in-law...how do I config the PIX to deny them access? > How about an ACL or an ability to route their airplane to China when they > come and visit? > > Thanks, > > Theo, > CSS1, CCNP > > "Tom Lisa" > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 05/02/2002 07:03 AM > Please respond to "Tom Lisa" > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > cc: > Subject:Re: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996] > > John, > > I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I don't think you have gone far > enough. I would tar & feather all posters who fail to remain ON TOPIC!! > Especially, those posts beginning with "I have a customer.!" BTW, I > am a CCGP (Cisco Certified Grand Parent) in child rearing and will be > happy to provide you with all the advise you need. > > HTH, > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > Community College of Southern Nevada > Cisco ATC/Regional Networking Academy > (P.S. Just kidding folks) :) > > John Neiberger wrote: > > > I've been noticing a growing trend on the list for several months now > > and I'm hoping to start some discussion and perhaps alleviate this > > particular issue. > > > > As everyone knows we have a fair number of true, guru-level experts > > that participate in the list and provide a wealth of excellent > > networking knowledge. However, very often this isn't Cisco-specific and > > as such is not of much value and it really seems to irritate other > > members of the list who understand that the only topics worth studying > > are Cisco-related. > > > > To make matters even worse, many of these so-called experts aren't even > > Cisco certified!! I was under the impression that to be a true expert > > one must have attained the CCIE certification, or at least CCNP with > > multiple specializations. How can we trust your advice if you we don't > > see those initials in your email sigs?? > > > > Participation on the list by these sorts of experts, regardless of > > there vast experience and knowledge, causes excessive distress to > > certain list members. In order to show more tolerance toward the easily > > annoyed, perhaps we should consider only allowing CCIEs to answer posts. > > I'm sure others would agree that this would solve this problem. We > > must find a way to prune the non-certified from our ranks. > > > > Regards, > > > > John advice unless you've passed some sort of parenting certification. > > Thanks.) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43181&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Followup: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. John >>> "Paul Jin" 5/1/02 12:18:06 PM >>> Hi John, I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain degree. Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome networking discussion in general that is related to being a network engineer. In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that or listen to CCIEs only. Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so should we exclude listening to them about running a business? Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they do not have a certain cert. - Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43009&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Followup: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
John, hehehe, I get it now... I have been talking back and forth with others on the post and they told me what you were trying to do. I did not even notice the flame at the other list has started on the NP side as well. - Paul CCIE #8960 (and yes, I read Howard's posts and learn from it as well) :-) John Neiberger wrote: I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. John >>> "Paul Jin" 5/1/02 12:18:06 PM >>> Hi John, I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain degree. Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome networking discussion in general that is related to being a network engineer. In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that or listen to CCIEs only. Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so should we exclude listening to them about running a business? Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they do not have a certain cert. - Paul Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43012&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Followup: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
Here, you can put this on your shelf next to your Doyle book after you order it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805039376/qid=1020281541/sr=1-2/ref= sr_1_2/102-5369585-3026562 :- ) ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my > previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as > expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully > accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. > > I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going > on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on > the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to > me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an > amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and > troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants > feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. > > I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm > particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability > to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. > > John > > >>> "Paul Jin" 5/1/02 12:18:06 PM >>> > Hi John, > > I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain > degree. > > Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy > is > dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is > a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, > the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome > networking discussion in general that is related to being a > network engineer. > > In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that > is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think > talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. > > My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is > my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that > or listen to CCIEs only. > > Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, > but > there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so > should > we exclude listening to them about running a business? > > Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because > they > do not have a certain cert. > > - Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43014&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Followup: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
I was wondering. I've seen some of your other posts and it didn't seem like you ;) JR -- Johnny Routin The "Routin" One ""John Neiberger"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my > previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as > expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully > accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. > > I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going > on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on > the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to > me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an > amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and > troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants > feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. > > I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm > particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability > to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. > > John > > >>> "Paul Jin" 5/1/02 12:18:06 PM >>> > Hi John, > > I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain > degree. > > Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy > is > dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is > a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, > the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome > networking discussion in general that is related to being a > network engineer. > > In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that > is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think > talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. > > My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is > my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that > or listen to CCIEs only. > > Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, > but > there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so > should > we exclude listening to them about running a business? > > Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because > they > do not have a certain cert. > > - Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43028&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Followup: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996]
I'm really not sure what all the fuss was about, I thought it was pretty clear John was being facetious. The other thread he refers to however, is the one that should have raised hackles. Anyway John, I found it amusing. Of course I tend to the sarcastic side myself, so maybe that's why! :) "John Neiberger" cc: Sent by:Subject: Followup: RE: To The Experts and Gurus [7:42996] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/2002 03:28 PM Please respond to "John Neiberger" I need to make a clarification. I was *completely* joking in my previous email but apparently my usual sarcasm didn't shine through as expected. My point was that instead of whining we should gratefully accept the help given from those far more experienced than us. I'm specifically referring to Howard (because of another thread going on right now) but it applies to many others here, as well. I've been on the list for over three years and these folks have been indispensable to me. If you really listen to what they're saying you can learn an amazing amount of material while developing logical configuration and troubleshooting skills. I just don't understand why some participants feel the need to bash those who bring so much to the list. I think because I haven't been getting much sleep lately that I'm particularly grumpy. ;-) Perhaps that is what is hampering my ability to be sarcastic without getting into too much trouble. John >>> "Paul Jin" 5/1/02 12:18:06 PM >>> Hi John, I see your concern, but would have to disagree to a certain degree. Certification is very important, and vast discussion here in groupstudy is dedicated to Cisco cert, but not everything is a cisco world. I am not saying we should start discussing, the difference between VB and C++ here but I still welcome networking discussion in general that is related to being a network engineer. In agreeing with you, I would like to somehow limit posting that is totally irrelevant so we can have some focus but I don't think talking only about Cisco equipment and only by CCIE is an answer. My goal is to be a professional network engineer, and Cisco is my main product, but I don't want to limit my knowledge to just that or listen to CCIEs only. Many Corporate executive jobs require bachelors and masters degrees, but there are presidents and CEOs that never went or finished college, so should we exclude listening to them about running a business? Certs are important, but I don't think we should limit people because they do not have a certain cert. - Paul Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=43054&t=42996 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
