Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Robert Mazza via CnC-List]

Violeta,

One of the photos from Martin's link is quite historic (they are all
historic, of course, but one more than the others). See attached. It shows
Blair Vedder (owner), Erich Bruckmann (builder), Mark Ellis (C custom
sales), and Ed Botterell (Hood sialimaker). I wish I had a higher
resolution copy of this photo.

Rob Mazza

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 12:46 AM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Martin,
>
> That's all great information, thanks a lot.
>
> Marek - thanks for the link to the vendor in Maine. I don't know much
> about sealants, so it help to get recommendations.
>
> More comments inline on specific topics - lots of food for thought!
>
> Violeta
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Martin DeYoung <
> martin.deyo...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>
>> From MIT's sailing web site I find "X Dimension" was originally "Night
>> Train".  I have pictures of "Night Train" being built at Bruckmann's with
>> the design/build team and Blair Vedder standing in the partially completed
>> hull before the deck is added.  The deck is upside down next to the hull.
>> (You will be able to see the hull and deck flanges.)  I obtained the
>> pictures from Nick Vedder (Blair's son) who now lives in the Seattle area,
>> we are members at the same yacht club.  We met down on Calypso one
>> afternoon to talk 43's.  Nick now owns a Beneteau 52 named "Night Train".
>>
> Have you seen these photos? http://sailing.mit.edu/wiki/
> index.php/X-Dimension_history
>
> Do you have other photos, too?
>
> I will send the digital pics to your email in the next few days.
>> Regarding the C drawings, I have both paper and digital copies of all the
>> 43 drawing the museum curator could locate.  I expect you are only looking
>> for any hull to deck details.  If you agree to send the museum a donation
>> for each digital pic we should avoid any copy right issues, and the museum
>> is providing a great service to us C aficionados.  IIRC the digital
>> copies were $5 each.  How much build detail are you interested in?
>>
> Payment for photos, drawings, service, etc., is up to the MIT sailing
> master, so I'll let him know. I've no idea if that can be processed as
> donation to the museum, but I'm sure that MIT will respect all copyright,
> so no worries. I'm emailing you separately about the copies.
>
> Not only hull to deck details actually. I am interested in all structural
> details relevant to XD.
>
>
>> >... If we were to reuse some of the toe rail, how would one clean and
>> treat that?
>>
>> -- We have used scotch bright type adhesive wheels on a drill motor to
>> clean off the corrosion, prime with a zinc aluminum spray primer, then
>> painted black with marine grade engine spray paint.  Others here have
>> recommended Rust-o-ileum paint.
>>
>> >... What about custom extrusion, if we can't find a match for the T-rail?
>>
>> -- Custom extrusions are very expensive. I have done several for aircraft
>> related products and the tooling is a little pricey for a small
>> quantity. For a short or partial section having something machined and
>> anodized may be affordable.  For a long section I expect you could find a
>> similar C related toe rail section that would fit in.  Klacko has been
>> mentioned as one of the hardware suppliers for the 14 or 15 "Limited" C
>> built by Bruckmanns.
>>
>
> I'll pass this information to the guys and gals working on XD. I am out of
> state now, so I am only helping with the research.
>
>
>> >... And wouldn't the hull and deck separate, once the bolts are removed?
>> It seems essential to do one section at a time. How big a section?
>>
>> --If I was doing this project I would temporarily replace each bolt as it
>> became possible.  The 43's have each athwart ships and longitudinal
>> bulkheads glassed to the deck so the risk of any hull distortion is nil so
>> don't stress over a missed bolt or two.
>>
> Oh my. I *finally* get this! Of course, bulkheads would be glassed to the
> deck, too. Boat building is new to me, but I have structural engineering
> background, so I should have thought of it myself. I didn't until you
> mentioned it. I was too focused on the hull/deck joint along the perimeter.
>
> Not to worry much then, I agree. Just proceed with caution, etc. Those
> drawings will really help, too!
>
> Now I want to build a boat myself. The boat I want doesn't seem to exist
> yet. But that's for another discussion. :)
>
> >... Finally, out of curiosity, I found Evening Star (with the teak rail)
>> listed for sale online. She is beautiful! But XD is better. :)
>>
>> -- I also believe Calypso (nee Arieto (70's based in Boston), Phantom
>> and Esta Es based on the Great Lakes) is better.. but Dave Utley's
>> restoration and upgrades to "Evening Star" made her the queen of the west
>> coast 43's.  Dave traded "Evening Star" for the C 48 now known as
>> "Morning Star", completed a similar restoration/upgrade then sailed her up
>> and down the east coast.  "Morning Star" is also 

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Hi all

One more post from me to say thanks again to everyone who responded to my
inquiry. I got so much good advice and information, which will be very
helpful as we work on our C 43' boat in the off season in New England.
Thank you!

David - fyi since you asked - MIT owns X Dimension. David Collins, who
donated XD to MIT in 2011, left many useful notes for us. We didn't have
the drawings, so I assume he didn't either. Martin DeYoung owns XD's
"sister boat" Calypso: hull #1 of the same limited edition C 43' in the
1970s.

The conversation has moved offline now that I have made some great contacts
thanks to this list. We got the drawings from Martin and lots of great
advice, not only about toe rail, but also about other relevant upgrades,
which we are considering for XD and he has already done on his boat.

The marine museum's director Doug Cowie, as well as others from this list
who emailed me privately, have been very helpful too! Someone even walked
down the dock in Seattle to let Martin know when I first posted my inquiry
here. I didn't catch the name, but thank you very much too, dock angel in
Seattle, whoever you are. This list is the best. (I am patting myself on
the back for being so smart to join the forum :=)

When I get the nerve, I will post questions about my own boat too. She
doesn't exist yet, i.e., most likely exists, but I have not found her yet.

Happy (American) Thanksgiving -- and thanks again everyone who helped from
the US, Canada, and beyond. Work on XD continues as we speak. If you are
interested, you can follow what's happening with the best boat ever built
by C (ok, I know, getting a bit carried away here :=), via the MIT
bluewater wiki (http://sailing.mit.edu/bluewater). Feel free to drop me a
line anytime, too.

Sincerely,

Violeta

Skipper of MIT's X Dimension
Custom C 43' 1973


On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:47 AM, David via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Martin,
>
> You own X Dimension?  she was one of 2 43s owned by my friends who kept
> them  here in Marion.
>
> If you have any questions I can pass them on.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Date: 11/14/16 22:34 (GMT-05:00)
> To: Martin DeYoung <martin.deyo...@outlook.com>
> Cc: Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>
> Martin
>
> Great to connect with you! (Hull #1, eh?) Yes, our custom C 43' is X
> Dimension. We call her XD. Here is more about her: http://sailing.mit.edu/
> bluewater. She sails like a dream! I love that boat. It will be fantastic
> to get the C 43' drawings from you. I'll email you separately about that.
>
> FYI to the list -- I called the maritime museum in Kingston, ON, earlier
> today. The museum is relocating, and the archives will be inaccessible at
> least until late spring 2017. Since we can't get anything from them until
> then, thanks even more for all the help here!
>
> Also answering to Ken, Leslie, Rob, Michael - thanks for the links,
> pictures, and related details. Very helpful to finally "see" that joint,
> even though ours is slightly different (T shaped toe rail, bolted on both
> sides).
>
> I am pretty sure the toe rail on XD is the original one. We have never
> changed it, and the previous owner never mentions changing it in the notes
> he left for us. It's unlikely that the original owner(s) ever replaced toe
> rail that was relatively new at their time. It must be the original.
>
> It seems the consensus is no vinyl. So butyl on the hull flange bonds to
> butyl under the deck edge, all that bolted through, incorporating the
> aluminum toe rail? More butyl between deck and toe rail, so I guess that
> seals the bolts?
>
> Since people asked, I don't have photos of the worst worn out parts on our
> toe rail, sorry. The photos I posted show only the corrosion. If we were to
> reuse some of the toe rail, how would one clean and treat that? What about
> custom extrusion, if we can't find a match for the T-rail?
>
> And wouldn't the hull and deck separate, once the bolts are removed? It
> seems essential to do one section at a time. How big a section?
>
> Finally, out of curiosity, I found Evening Star (with the teak rail)
> listed for sale online. She is beautiful! But XD is better. :)
>
> Violeta
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Martin DeYoung <
> martin.deyo...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> Violeta,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lee Youngblood forwarded your question and several replies to me.  I have
>> been tied up with some business related extra work (long story for another
>> time) and

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[David via CnC-List]

Martin,

You own X Dimension?  she was one of 2 43s owned by my friends who kept them  
here in Marion.

If you have any questions I can pass them on.



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Date: 11/14/16 22:34 (GMT-05:00)
To: Martin DeYoung <martin.deyo...@outlook.com>
Cc: Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)

Martin

Great to connect with you! (Hull #1, eh?) Yes, our custom C 43' is X 
Dimension. We call her XD. Here is more about her: 
http://sailing.mit.edu/bluewater. She sails like a dream! I love that boat. It 
will be fantastic to get the C 43' drawings from you. I'll email you 
separately about that.

FYI to the list -- I called the maritime museum in Kingston, ON, earlier today. 
The museum is relocating, and the archives will be inaccessible at least until 
late spring 2017. Since we can't get anything from them until then, thanks even 
more for all the help here!

Also answering to Ken, Leslie, Rob, Michael - thanks for the links, pictures, 
and related details. Very helpful to finally "see" that joint, even though ours 
is slightly different (T shaped toe rail, bolted on both sides).

I am pretty sure the toe rail on XD is the original one. We have never changed 
it, and the previous owner never mentions changing it in the notes he left for 
us. It's unlikely that the original owner(s) ever replaced toe rail that was 
relatively new at their time. It must be the original.

It seems the consensus is no vinyl. So butyl on the hull flange bonds to butyl 
under the deck edge, all that bolted through, incorporating the aluminum toe 
rail? More butyl between deck and toe rail, so I guess that seals the bolts?

Since people asked, I don't have photos of the worst worn out parts on our toe 
rail, sorry. The photos I posted show only the corrosion. If we were to reuse 
some of the toe rail, how would one clean and treat that? What about custom 
extrusion, if we can't find a match for the T-rail?

And wouldn't the hull and deck separate, once the bolts are removed? It seems 
essential to do one section at a time. How big a section?

Finally, out of curiosity, I found Evening Star (with the teak rail) listed for 
sale online. She is beautiful! But XD is better. :)

Violeta


On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Martin DeYoung 
<martin.deyo...@outlook.com<mailto:martin.deyo...@outlook.com>> wrote:

Violeta,



Lee Youngblood forwarded your question and several replies to me.  I have been 
tied up with some business related extra work (long story for another time) and 
have not been able to follow the cnc-list as closely as I would like.



I am one of two owners of a 1971 C 43, hull #1.  We have spent the last 2 
years restoring the deck after 40+ years or hard use racing and cruising.  We 
have owned it since 1998 and have worked on almost every significant system, 
piece of the rig, and significant areas of the hull and deck.



I have not done any extensive work on the toe rail but am reasonable familiar 
with this era of C's and especially the 43's and 39's. I have some pictures 
of several 43's being built at Bruckmann's that show a little detail and I have 
copies from the Maritime museum of the 43 build drawings.


>From one of your comments I believe the 43 you are referring to was once named 
>X Bar R or something similar and was donated to a college by the inventor of 
>the bar code.  If that is the same boat, its construction will be very similar 
>to Calypso's (our 43 here in Seattle)



The deck joint is basically an inward laminated flange that is part of the 
hull, with the outer edge of the deck overlaying it then through bolted, 
through the toe rail.  Butyl tape was normal the factory sealant.   If your 
boat has something other than Butyl tape it was added by a past owner. One of 
the other lister's post included a drawing of a C hull to deck joint.  Take 
out the vinyl rub rail and it is much the same concept.



I have not removed a C aluminum extruded toe rail myself but have read some 
details and discussed with several people who have.  One of the important 
details was controlling the "stored energy" in a long length of the bent 
aluminum toe rail extrusion.  Removing a short section should be easy for a 
person accustom to messing about in boats.  Removing a long section may require 
a little more thought and planning but is not beyond a DIY effort.



Why do you want to remove some toe rail.  If it is to stop a leak, make sure 
all the through bolts are tight first.  On Calypso I have found that most 
hull/deck bolts can use 1/4 to 1/2 turn tightening every few years.  If it is 
because of excessive wear and corrosion or a particular slot wearing through 
you may have easier options than removing a length of toe 

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Martin,

That's all great information, thanks a lot.

Marek - thanks for the link to the vendor in Maine. I don't know much about
sealants, so it help to get recommendations.

More comments inline on specific topics - lots of food for thought!

Violeta

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Martin DeYoung 
wrote:


> From MIT's sailing web site I find "X Dimension" was originally "Night
> Train".  I have pictures of "Night Train" being built at Bruckmann's with
> the design/build team and Blair Vedder standing in the partially completed
> hull before the deck is added.  The deck is upside down next to the hull.
> (You will be able to see the hull and deck flanges.)  I obtained the
> pictures from Nick Vedder (Blair's son) who now lives in the Seattle area,
> we are members at the same yacht club.  We met down on Calypso one
> afternoon to talk 43's.  Nick now owns a Beneteau 52 named "Night Train".
>
Have you seen these photos?
http://sailing.mit.edu/wiki/index.php/X-Dimension_history

Do you have other photos, too?

I will send the digital pics to your email in the next few days.  Regarding
> the C drawings, I have both paper and digital copies of all the 43
> drawing the museum curator could locate.  I expect you are only looking for
> any hull to deck details.  If you agree to send the museum a donation for
> each digital pic we should avoid any copy right issues, and the museum is
> providing a great service to us C aficionados.  IIRC the digital copies
> were $5 each.  How much build detail are you interested in?
>
Payment for photos, drawings, service, etc., is up to the MIT sailing
master, so I'll let him know. I've no idea if that can be processed as
donation to the museum, but I'm sure that MIT will respect all copyright,
so no worries. I'm emailing you separately about the copies.

Not only hull to deck details actually. I am interested in all structural
details relevant to XD.


> >... If we were to reuse some of the toe rail, how would one clean and
> treat that?
>
> -- We have used scotch bright type adhesive wheels on a drill motor to
> clean off the corrosion, prime with a zinc aluminum spray primer, then
> painted black with marine grade engine spray paint.  Others here have
> recommended Rust-o-ileum paint.
>
> >... What about custom extrusion, if we can't find a match for the T-rail?
>
> -- Custom extrusions are very expensive. I have done several for aircraft
> related products and the tooling is a little pricey for a small
> quantity. For a short or partial section having something machined and
> anodized may be affordable.  For a long section I expect you could find a
> similar C related toe rail section that would fit in.  Klacko has been
> mentioned as one of the hardware suppliers for the 14 or 15 "Limited" C
> built by Bruckmanns.
>

I'll pass this information to the guys and gals working on XD. I am out of
state now, so I am only helping with the research.


> >... And wouldn't the hull and deck separate, once the bolts are removed?
> It seems essential to do one section at a time. How big a section?
>
> --If I was doing this project I would temporarily replace each bolt as it
> became possible.  The 43's have each athwart ships and longitudinal
> bulkheads glassed to the deck so the risk of any hull distortion is nil so
> don't stress over a missed bolt or two.
>
Oh my. I *finally* get this! Of course, bulkheads would be glassed to the
deck, too. Boat building is new to me, but I have structural engineering
background, so I should have thought of it myself. I didn't until you
mentioned it. I was too focused on the hull/deck joint along the perimeter.

Not to worry much then, I agree. Just proceed with caution, etc. Those
drawings will really help, too!

Now I want to build a boat myself. The boat I want doesn't seem to exist
yet. But that's for another discussion. :)

>... Finally, out of curiosity, I found Evening Star (with the teak rail)
> listed for sale online. She is beautiful! But XD is better. :)
>
> -- I also believe Calypso (nee Arieto (70's based in Boston), Phantom
> and Esta Es based on the Great Lakes) is better.. but Dave Utley's
> restoration and upgrades to "Evening Star" made her the queen of the west
> coast 43's.  Dave traded "Evening Star" for the C 48 now known as
> "Morning Star", completed a similar restoration/upgrade then sailed her up
> and down the east coast.  "Morning Star" is also listed for sale here in
> the Seattle area.
>

So we have XD, Calypso, Evening Star, Phantom, and Esta Es so far, five of
the custom 43' sisters. I think there were nine more. Do you know what
happened to all of them?

Violeta


>
>
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Hi Violeta,

I might be stating the obvious, but since you are planning to use butyl tape in 
the project, you may want to look for the good product (apparently not all 
butyl tapes were created equal).

One of the best sources of the butyl tape (if not the best) is Maine Sail 
(Compass Marine) (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape) – I have no 
association; only a happy customer.

goof luck with your project

Marek Dziedzic
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Thanks, Rick! I was replying also to you, but forgot to mention you in the
email I just sent the list.

Violeta

On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ken, et al:
>
>
>
> The illustrations and text in the manual are pretty much the same as what
> is in the manual that came with Imzadi – Hull Number 047 built in January
> 1976. Except that my manual notes that the rubber rub rail was riveted to
> the hull flange.
>
>
>
> The stack up is hull flange, butyl, rub rail, butyl, deck, butyl, toe
> rail. Through bolted on 4” spacing.
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
> Heaton via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 9:01 PM
> *To:* cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Ken Heaton <kenhea...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>
>
>
> The manual for the 1977 C 38 is here: http://www.
> cncphotoalbum.com/download/38manual.pdf
>
>
>
> See page 9 (3.3 Hull Deck Joint) and the illustration on page 35.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

> It's last known location was San Francisco and was/has been listed for
> sale.  In my opinion, the hull to deck joint modification would not be
> significantly weakened if the new fastenings are correctly sized and
> installed.  I do recommend you discuss that type of project with a naval
> architect knowledgeable of C
>
>
>
> Here is the best email address to contact me if you have any follow up C
> 43 questions or would like a copy of the 43 build pictures.
>
>
>
> Martin DeYoung
>
> calyps...@outlook.com
>
>
>
> Calypso
>
> 1971 C 43
>
> Seattle
>
>
> (This is a new email address as I sold the business that hosted my earlier
> email addresses.  I have moved most my boating related activities to the
> personal account.)
>
>
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 23:40:40 -0500
> From: robertlmazza <robertlma...@gmail.com>
> To: C Mailing List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>
> Boats built in the C Custom Shop generally did not use the vinyl rubrail
> sandwiched between the hull flange and deck.
>
> Rob
>
> --
>
>  Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 04:40:02 -0500
> From: "Michael Clow" <mdc...@warmgear.com>
> To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
> Message-ID: <000601d23e5b$1350bc90$39f235b0$@warmgear.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="UTF-8"
>
> I rebedded the aft half of my toe rail three years ago and the leaks
> stopped.  The link below show a diagram from C of my joint along with a
> few comments I made after doing the job.
>
> http://desiresailing.org/ToeRailJointDiagram.pdf
>
> Michael Clow
> Desire, C 32, Lake St. Clair
>
>  
> On Sun, 11/13/16, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>  Cc: "Violeta Ivanova" <vmivan...@gmail.com>
>  Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 11:45 AM
>
>  Thanks, Bob. This is
>  great information! I was wondering where one might find  scale drawings.
> I will contact the museum.
>
>  Good to hear removing
>  the toe rail will not affect the joint structurally. I  thought it might,
> but it doesn't seem to be the case.
>
>  Thanks for all
>  the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who  responded, so I
> don't send multiple emails.
>
>  Ken - yes, it is the slotted
>  aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the reasons for  replacement are
> leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in  the decision to replace the toe
> rail. The C 43'
>  belongs to my university, and I am one of her skippers.
>  Great boat!
>
>  I had not seen
>  the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am  poking around
> the website now - great resource!
>
>  We tried Holland Marine already, but they  didn't have our toe rail. Rob
> McLaughlin and Klacko  Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links.
> If anyone  can think of other possible sources for that toe rail,  please
> let me know.
>
>  Violeta
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>  On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at
>  10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>  wrote:
>  Violeta,
>  All the drawings for the C 43
>  reside in the C collection in the archives if the  Marine Museum of the
> Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If  you contact the museum curator
> through the website you can  order a copy  of the construction plan which
> most likely  show the toe rail and hull to deck joint. If you know which
>  43 you own (original name of boat or her first owner) you  most can
> likely get copies of the drawings relating  specifically to your 43.
>  However, merely removing and
>  replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize the structural  integrity of
> the hull to deck joint over that  period.
>  A replacement
>  rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore  Yachts in St.
> Catherines, ON.
>
>  Rob
>  Mazza
>
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>   Original
>  message From: Violeta Ivanova via  CnC-List  Date:11-12-2016
> 2:19 PM
>  (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>  Cc: Violeta Ivanova  Subject:
>  Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe  rail replacement?)
> Greetings all.
>
>
>  Might someone here
>  help with questions about the custom C 43' from
>  1973? This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen
>  boats were ever built. We would like to replace the toe rail
>  on our boat, but are unsure how that might affect the
>  hull/deck joint.
>
>  Some
>  specific questions:
>
>  1
>  - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973
>  C 43'?
>  2 - How is the toe
>  rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
>  3 - What happens if we remove the toe
>  rail (or part of it)?
>
>  Good advice will be appreciated.
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

Violeta,

based on the picture, I think you can clean up the corrosion and apply paint 
(Rustoleum was used successfully by some on the list).  They do not look 
structurally compromised, but of course the rails would have to be removed, 
inspected then replaced.  

C used butyl tape under those rails, and works well.

Leslie.


On Sun, 11/13/16, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: "Violeta Ivanova" <vmivan...@gmail.com>
 Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 5:45 PM
 
 Gary, Leslie: thanks. As I understand,
 parts of the toe rail on our boat are also very worn out. To
 be honest, I never noticed, but I wasn't looking for it
 when I sailed the boat earlier this year. I am not near her
 at present. I am only helping with the research. 
 
 South Shore/Bob
 seems like an excellent resource. We'll check that out.
 
 
 How does one know if
 the old sealant is butyl or something else? Can you tell
 from this photo?
 
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdwc8k7tem6s39r/toerail1.jpg?dl=0
 
 The photo also
 shows how toe rail corrosion affects the topsides of our
 C 43. Repainting the topsides is on the to do list,
 too. 
 
 Violeta
 
 
 
 
 On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at
 3:53 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 wrote:
 I got a quote for on piece of toe
 rail from South Shore, that is Rob. It is an exact
 replacement for the bow piece of my rail, and is 15.5 feet
 long. I would take the old one off and look before spending
 the not trivial amount on a new one, you may have leaks
 because the original 40 year old butyl is
 gone. Gary From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc-
 list.com] On Behalf Of Violeta Ivanova via
 CnC-List
 Sent: Sunday, November 13,
 2016 2:46 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom
 C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
 replacement?) Thanks, Bob. This is great
 information! I was wondering where one might find scale
 drawings. I will contact the museum.
 Good to hear removing the toe
 rail will not affect the joint structurally. I thought it
 might, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
  Thanks for all the links to
 vendors! I am replying here to everyone who responded, so I
 don't send multiple emails. 
 
 Ken - yes, it is the slotted aluminum toe rail.
 As far as I know, the reasons for replacement are leaks and
 corrosion. I was not involved in the decision to replace the
 toe rail. The C 43' belongs to my university, and
 I am one of her skippers. Great boat!
 
 I had not seen the do it yourself album yet -
 very useful, thanks. I am poking around the website now -
 great resource!
 
 We tried
 Holland Marine already, but they didn't have our toe
 rail. Rob McLaughlin and Klacko Spars are new names for me -
 thanks for the links. If anyone can think of other possible
 sources for that toe rail, please let me know.    
  Violeta 
   On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:19
 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 wrote:Violeta, All the drawings for the
 C 43 reside in the C collection in the archives
 if the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston
 (Ontario). If you contact the museum curator through the
 website you can order a copy  of the construction plan
 which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck joint.
 If you know which 43 you own (original name of boat or her
 first owner) you most can likely get copies of the drawings
 relating specifically to your
 43. However, merely removing and
 replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize the structural
 integrity of the hull to deck joint over that
 period. A replacement rail may be
 available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore Yachts in St.
 Catherines, ON.  Rob
 Mazza  Sent from Samsung
 Mobile  Original message
 From: Violeta Ivanova via
 CnC-List Date:11-12-2016 2:19 PM
 (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Violeta Ivanova
 Subject: Stus-List 1973
 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
 replacement?)  Greetings all.
 Might someone here help with
 questions about the custom C 43' from 1973? This
 was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were
 ever built. We would like to replace the toe rail on our
 boat, but are unsure how that might affect the hull/deck
 joint. 
 
 Some specific
 questions:1 - What is the structure of
 the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'?
 2
 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck
 joint?3 - What happens if we remove
 the toe rail (or part of it)?
  Good advice will be
 appreciated.Thanks,Violeta
 
 
  
 
 __
 _
 
 This list
 is supported by the generous donations of our members. If
 you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please
 go to:  https://www.paypal.me/
 stumurray
 
 All

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Michael Clow via CnC-List]

I rebidded the aft half of my toe rail three years ago and the leaks stopped.  
The link below show a diagram from C of my joint along with a few comments I 
made after doing the job.

http://desiresailing.org/ToeRailJointDiagram.pdf

Michael Clow
Desire, C 32, Lake St. Clair



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Paal 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 3:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Leslie Paal
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)

In this case you do not need to replace the toe rail, just re-bed it after 
cleaning up everything.  Still a major job.

Leslie.
Phoenix C 1983


On Sun, 11/13/16, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: "Violeta Ivanova" <vmivan...@gmail.com>
 Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 11:45 AM
 
 Thanks, Bob. This is
 great information! I was wondering where one might find  scale drawings. I 
will contact the museum. 
 
 Good to hear removing
 the toe rail will not affect the joint structurally. I  thought it might, but 
it doesn't seem to be the case.
 
 
 Thanks for all
 the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who  responded, so I 
don't send multiple emails. 
 
 Ken - yes, it is the slotted
 aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the reasons for  replacement are leaks 
and corrosion. I was not involved in  the decision to replace the toe rail. The 
C 43'
 belongs to my university, and I am one of her skippers.
 Great boat!
 
 I had not seen
 the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am  poking around  the 
website now - great resource!
 
 We tried Holland Marine already, but they  didn't have our toe rail. Rob 
McLaughlin and Klacko  Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If 
anyone  can think of other possible sources for that toe rail,  please let me 
know. 
 
 Violeta  
 
 
 
 On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at
 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 wrote:
 Violeta,
 All the drawings for the C 43
 reside in the C collection in the archives if the  Marine Museum of the 
Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If  you contact the museum curator through 
the website you can  order a copy  of the construction plan which most likely  
show the toe rail and hull to deck joint. If you know which
 43 you own (original name of boat or her first owner) you  most can likely get 
copies of the drawings relating  specifically to your 43.
 However, merely removing and
 replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize the structural  integrity of the 
hull to deck joint over that  period.
 A replacement
 rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore  Yachts in St. 
Catherines, ON.
 
 Rob
 Mazza
 
 Sent from Samsung
 Mobile
 
  Original
 message From: Violeta Ivanova via  CnC-List  Date:11-12-2016  2:19 PM
 (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Violeta Ivanova  Subject:
 Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe  rail replacement?)  
Greetings all.
 
 
 Might someone here
 help with questions about the custom C 43' from
 1973? This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen
 boats were ever built. We would like to replace the toe rail
 on our boat, but are unsure how that might affect the
 hull/deck joint. 
 
 Some
 specific questions:
 
 1
 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973
 C 43'? 
 2 - How is the toe
 rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
 3 - What happens if we remove the toe
 rail (or part of it)? 
 
 Good advice will be appreciated.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Violeta
 
 
 
   
 
 
 __
 _
 
 
 
 This list is supported by the generous donations of our
 members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our
 costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/
 stumurray
 
 
 
 All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
 
 
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 ___
 
 This list is supported by the
 generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a
 contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 All Contributions are greatly
 appreciated!
 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[robertlmazza via CnC-List]

Boats built in the C Custom Shop generally did not use the vinyl rubrail 
sandwiched between the hull flange and deck.

Rob


Sent from Samsung Mobile

 Original message From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date:11-13-2016  10:04 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Rick Brass 
<rickbr...@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' 
- hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?) 
Ken, et al:
 
The illustrations and text in the manual are pretty much the same as what is in 
the manual that came with Imzadi – Hull Number 047 built in January 1976. 
Except that my manual notes that the rubber rub rail was riveted to the hull 
flange.
 
The stack up is hull flange, butyl, rub rail, butyl, deck, butyl, toe rail. 
Through bolted on 4” spacing.
 
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
 
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 9:01 PM
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Ken Heaton <kenhea...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)
 
The manual for the 1977 C 38 is here: 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/download/38manual.pdf
 
See page 9 (3.3 Hull Deck Joint) and the illustration on page 35.
 
 ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Ken, et al:

 

The illustrations and text in the manual are pretty much the same as what is in 
the manual that came with Imzadi – Hull Number 047 built in January 1976. 
Except that my manual notes that the rubber rub rail was riveted to the hull 
flange.

 

The stack up is hull flange, butyl, rub rail, butyl, deck, butyl, toe rail. 
Through bolted on 4” spacing.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 9:01 PM
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Ken Heaton <kenhea...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)

 

The manual for the 1977 C 38 is here: 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/download/38manual.pdf

 

See page 9 (3.3 Hull Deck Joint) and the illustration on page 35.

 

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

3.3 Deck/Hull Joint The hull-to-deck joint details are illustrated in Fig.
1. On assembly, the top of the hull flange is capped with butyl compound to
which is fitted a vinyl rub rail topped by another layer of butyl compound.
The deck is lowered onto the hull and fastened by means of stainless steel
thru-bolts. When the bolts are tightened, the butyl compound in the joint
is forced into the exposed crevices. It should be noted that if a leak
should develop at the hull/deck joint, the thru-bolts in the area may be
tightened, care being taken not to allow the bolt to turn while tightening
the nut.

On 13 November 2016 at 22:01, Ken Heaton <kenhea...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The manual for the 1977 C 38 is here: http://www.
> cncphotoalbum.com/download/38manual.pdf
>
> See page 9 (3.3 Hull Deck Joint) and the illustration on page 35.
>
> I doubt the 1973 43' custom is much different.
>
> The Hull to Deck joint on a friend's 1973 C 35 Mk.I is essentially what
> is shown in the 1977 drawing in the manual for the 38.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On 13 November 2016 at 21:45, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Gary, Leslie: thanks. As I understand, parts of the toe rail on our boat
>> are also very worn out. To be honest, I never noticed, but I wasn't looking
>> for it when I sailed the boat earlier this year. I am not near her at
>> present. I am only helping with the research.
>>
>> South Shore/Bob seems like an excellent resource. We'll check that out.
>>
>> How does one know if the old sealant is butyl or something else? Can you
>> tell from this photo?
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdwc8k7tem6s39r/toerail1.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> The photo also shows how toe rail corrosion affects the topsides of our
>> C 43. Repainting the topsides is on the to do list, too.
>>
>> Violeta
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I got a quote for on piece of toe rail from South Shore, that is Rob. It
>>> is an exact replacement for the bow piece of my rail, and is 15.5 feet
>>> long. I would take the old one off and look before spending the not trivial
>>> amount on a new one, you may have leaks because the original 40 year old
>>> butyl is gone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
>>> *Violeta
>>> Ivanova via CnC-List
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 2:46 PM
>>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Cc:* Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe
>>> rail replacement?)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Bob. This is great information! I was wondering where one might
>>> find scale drawings. I will contact the museum.
>>>
>>> Good to hear removing the toe rail will not affect the joint
>>> structurally. I thought it might, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who
>>> responded, so I don't send multiple emails.
>>>
>>> Ken - yes, it is the slotted aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the
>>> reasons for replacement are leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in the
>>> decision to replace the toe rail. The C 43' belongs to my university, and
>>> I am one of her skippers. Great boat!
>>>
>>> I had not seen the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am
>>> poking around the website now - great resource!
>>>
>>> We tried Holland Marine already, but they didn't have our toe rail. Rob
>>> McLaughlin and Klacko Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If
>>> anyone can think of other possible sources for that toe rail, please let me
>>> know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Violeta
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Violeta,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the drawings for the C 43 reside in the C collection in the
>>> archives if the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If
>>> you contact the museum curator through the website you can order a copy  of
>>> the construction plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck
&g

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

The manual for the 1977 C 38 is here:
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/download/38manual.pdf

See page 9 (3.3 Hull Deck Joint) and the illustration on page 35.

I doubt the 1973 43' custom is much different.

The Hull to Deck joint on a friend's 1973 C 35 Mk.I is essentially what
is shown in the 1977 drawing in the manual for the 38.

Ken H.

On 13 November 2016 at 21:45, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary, Leslie: thanks. As I understand, parts of the toe rail on our boat
> are also very worn out. To be honest, I never noticed, but I wasn't looking
> for it when I sailed the boat earlier this year. I am not near her at
> present. I am only helping with the research.
>
> South Shore/Bob seems like an excellent resource. We'll check that out.
>
> How does one know if the old sealant is butyl or something else? Can you
> tell from this photo?
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdwc8k7tem6s39r/toerail1.jpg?dl=0
>
> The photo also shows how toe rail corrosion affects the topsides of our
> C 43. Repainting the topsides is on the to do list, too.
>
> Violeta
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I got a quote for on piece of toe rail from South Shore, that is Rob. It
>> is an exact replacement for the bow piece of my rail, and is 15.5 feet
>> long. I would take the old one off and look before spending the not trivial
>> amount on a new one, you may have leaks because the original 40 year old
>> butyl is gone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
>> *Violeta
>> Ivanova via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 2:46 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
>> replacement?)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Bob. This is great information! I was wondering where one might
>> find scale drawings. I will contact the museum.
>>
>> Good to hear removing the toe rail will not affect the joint
>> structurally. I thought it might, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who
>> responded, so I don't send multiple emails.
>>
>> Ken - yes, it is the slotted aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the
>> reasons for replacement are leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in the
>> decision to replace the toe rail. The C 43' belongs to my university, and
>> I am one of her skippers. Great boat!
>>
>> I had not seen the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am
>> poking around the website now - great resource!
>>
>> We tried Holland Marine already, but they didn't have our toe rail. Rob
>> McLaughlin and Klacko Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If
>> anyone can think of other possible sources for that toe rail, please let me
>> know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Violeta
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Violeta,
>>
>>
>>
>> All the drawings for the C 43 reside in the C collection in the
>> archives if the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If
>> you contact the museum curator through the website you can order a copy  of
>> the construction plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck
>> joint. If you know which 43 you own (original name of boat or her first
>> owner) you most can likely get copies of the drawings relating specifically
>> to your 43.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, merely removing and replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize
>> the structural integrity of the hull to deck joint over that period.
>>
>>
>>
>> A replacement rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore
>> Yachts in St. Catherines, ON.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob Mazza
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>>
>> From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List
>>
>> Date:11-12-2016 2:19 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>
>> Cc: Violeta Ivanova
>>
>> Subject: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
>> replacement?)
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings all.
>>
>> Might someone here

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Gary, Leslie: thanks. As I understand, parts of the toe rail on our boat
are also very worn out. To be honest, I never noticed, but I wasn't looking
for it when I sailed the boat earlier this year. I am not near her at
present. I am only helping with the research.

South Shore/Bob seems like an excellent resource. We'll check that out.

How does one know if the old sealant is butyl or something else? Can you
tell from this photo?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdwc8k7tem6s39r/toerail1.jpg?dl=0

The photo also shows how toe rail corrosion affects the topsides of our C
43. Repainting the topsides is on the to do list, too.

Violeta




On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I got a quote for on piece of toe rail from South Shore, that is Rob. It
> is an exact replacement for the bow piece of my rail, and is 15.5 feet
> long. I would take the old one off and look before spending the not trivial
> amount on a new one, you may have leaks because the original 40 year old
> butyl is gone.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Violeta
> Ivanova via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 2:46 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>
>
>
> Thanks, Bob. This is great information! I was wondering where one might
> find scale drawings. I will contact the museum.
>
> Good to hear removing the toe rail will not affect the joint structurally.
> I thought it might, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
>
>
>
> Thanks for all the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who
> responded, so I don't send multiple emails.
>
> Ken - yes, it is the slotted aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the
> reasons for replacement are leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in the
> decision to replace the toe rail. The C 43' belongs to my university, and
> I am one of her skippers. Great boat!
>
> I had not seen the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am
> poking around the website now - great resource!
>
> We tried Holland Marine already, but they didn't have our toe rail. Rob
> McLaughlin and Klacko Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If
> anyone can think of other possible sources for that toe rail, please let me
> know.
>
>
>
> Violeta
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Violeta,
>
>
>
> All the drawings for the C 43 reside in the C collection in the
> archives if the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If
> you contact the museum curator through the website you can order a copy  of
> the construction plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck
> joint. If you know which 43 you own (original name of boat or her first
> owner) you most can likely get copies of the drawings relating specifically
> to your 43.
>
>
>
> However, merely removing and replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize
> the structural integrity of the hull to deck joint over that period.
>
>
>
> A replacement rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore
> Yachts in St. Catherines, ON.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rob Mazza
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List
>
> Date:11-12-2016 2:19 PM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> Cc: Violeta Ivanova
>
> Subject: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>
>
>
> Greetings all.
>
> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973?
> This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built.
> We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that
> might affect the hull/deck joint.
>
> Some specific questions:
>
> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'?
>
> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
>
> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)?
>
>
>
> Good advice will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Violeta
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I got a quote for on piece of toe rail from South Shore, that is Rob. It is an 
exact replacement for the bow piece of my rail, and is 15.5 feet long. I would 
take the old one off and look before spending the not trivial amount on a new 
one, you may have leaks because the original 40 year old butyl is gone.

 

Gary

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Violeta 
Ivanova via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 2:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)

 

Thanks, Bob. This is great information! I was wondering where one might find 
scale drawings. I will contact the museum. 

Good to hear removing the toe rail will not affect the joint structurally. I 
thought it might, but it doesn't seem to be the case. 

 

Thanks for all the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who 
responded, so I don't send multiple emails. 

Ken - yes, it is the slotted aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the reasons 
for replacement are leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in the decision to 
replace the toe rail. The C 43' belongs to my university, and I am one of her 
skippers. Great boat!

I had not seen the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am poking 
around the website now - great resource!

We tried Holland Marine already, but they didn't have our toe rail. Rob 
McLaughlin and Klacko Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If 
anyone can think of other possible sources for that toe rail, please let me 
know. 

 

Violeta  

 

 

On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Violeta,

 

All the drawings for the C 43 reside in the C collection in the archives if 
the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If you contact the 
museum curator through the website you can order a copy  of the construction 
plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck joint. If you know 
which 43 you own (original name of boat or her first owner) you most can likely 
get copies of the drawings relating specifically to your 43.

 

However, merely removing and replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize the 
structural integrity of the hull to deck joint over that period.

 

A replacement rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore Yachts 
in St. Catherines, ON.

 

 

Rob Mazza

 

 

Sent from Samsung Mobile

 

 Original message 

From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List 

Date:11-12-2016 2:19 PM (GMT-05:00) 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>  

Cc: Violeta Ivanova 

Subject: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?) 

 

Greetings all. 

Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973? This 
was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built. We would 
like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that might affect 
the hull/deck joint. 

Some specific questions:

1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'? 

2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?

3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)? 

 

Good advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Violeta




  


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

In this case you do not need to replace the toe rail, just re-bed it after 
cleaning up everything.  Still a major job.

Leslie.
Phoenix C 1983


On Sun, 11/13/16, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: "Violeta Ivanova" <vmivan...@gmail.com>
 Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 11:45 AM
 
 Thanks, Bob. This is
 great information! I was wondering where one might find
 scale drawings. I will contact the museum. 
 
 Good to hear removing
 the toe rail will not affect the joint structurally. I
 thought it might, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
 
 
 Thanks for all
 the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who
 responded, so I don't send multiple emails. 
 
 Ken - yes, it is the slotted
 aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the reasons for
 replacement are leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in
 the decision to replace the toe rail. The C 43'
 belongs to my university, and I am one of her skippers.
 Great boat!
 
 I had not seen 
 the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am
 poking around 
 the website now - great resource!
 
 We tried Holland Marine already, but they
 didn't have our toe rail. Rob McLaughlin and Klacko
 Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If anyone
 can think of other possible sources for that toe rail,
 please let me know.     
 
 Violeta  
 
 
 
 On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at
 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 wrote:
 Violeta,
 All the drawings for the C 43
 reside in the C collection in the archives if the
 Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If
 you contact the museum curator through the website you can
 order a copy  of the construction plan which most likely
 show the toe rail and hull to deck joint. If you know which
 43 you own (original name of boat or her first owner) you
 most can likely get copies of the drawings relating
 specifically to your 43.
 However, merely removing and
 replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize the structural
 integrity of the hull to deck joint over that
 period.
 A replacement
 rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore
 Yachts in St. Catherines, ON.
 
 Rob
 Mazza
 
 Sent from Samsung
 Mobile
 
  Original
 message From: Violeta Ivanova via
 CnC-List  Date:11-12-2016  2:19 PM 
 (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Violeta Ivanova  Subject:
 Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe
 rail replacement?) 
 Greetings all.
 
 
 Might someone here
 help with questions about the custom C 43' from
 1973? This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen
 boats were ever built. We would like to replace the toe rail
 on our boat, but are unsure how that might affect the
 hull/deck joint. 
 
 Some
 specific questions:
 
 1
 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973
 C 43'? 
 2 - How is the toe
 rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
 3 - What happens if we remove the toe
 rail (or part of it)? 
 
 Good advice will be appreciated.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Violeta
 
 
 
   
 
 
 __
 _
 
 
 
 This list is supported by the generous donations of our
 members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our
 costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/
 stumurray
 
 
 
 All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
 
 
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 ___
 
 This list is supported by the
 generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a
 contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 All Contributions are greatly
 appreciated!
 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

On my 1980 version, the hull/deck joint has an internal flange which is bolted. 
Then the L shaped toe rail is bolted on top of that. 

Gary

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Violeta 
Ivanova via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 9:09 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Violeta Ivanova <vmivan...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail 
replacement?)

 

Thanks Dave. I hope Martin responds, he will be a great contact indeed. 

Our toe rail is symmetric, T-shaped, with screws on both sides of the vertical 
part. Here are some photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/483a7kvckwx0ys5/AACbT_1GZsShvn8Xr7fWiHtRa?dl=0

We haven't found an exact match yet, so that's another task at hand. Some of 
the photos include a ruler for scale (both cm and in), 


Also, I have been reading online about the C designs in the 1970s. I can't 
find much about the limited edition 43', but here is what I am finding about 
the hull to deck joint on other C designs from the 1970s: 

- the deck and hull are attached via an internal flange, which is bolted -- is 
that typical?

- the joint is also chemically bonded -- how does that work? is it common on 
C? 

- the toe rail is attached with screws (or bolts?) and provides additional 
stiffness to the joint

Does this sound right? Is it typical for C construction at the time, or could 
our hull/deck joint be very different?

What might happen when we remove the toe rail? 

Thanks,

Violeta

 

 

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Hi Violeta,

 

There’s a gentleman on the list by the name of Martin DeYoung who owns a C 
43. He has been working deck work on his boat and may be an informative source 
as regards your model. He hasn’t posted in some time but perhaps he may respond.

 

Perhaps if you could identify the type of toerail that your boat has it would 
help. You may find that many listers here have some experience. FWIW, a good 
surveyor should be able to tell you what you are up against. I have done a  
complete deck lift and rebed on a Islander 37 with a teak toerail and one of my 
good friends has replaced the teak toerail with an aluminum toerail on his Cal 
40. Non-trivial efforts in both cases.

 

Good luck with your task.

 

Best,

Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/> 

 

On Nov 12, 2016, 

at 2:19 PM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Greetings all. 

Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973? This 
was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built. We would 
like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that might affect 
the hull/deck joint. 

Some specific questions:

1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'? 

2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?

3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)? 

 

Good advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Violeta




  

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

 


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Hi Mike

I couldn't agree more! That one-line mooring is pretty bad. Not really "my"
mooring, though. That photo is at the marina (which shall remain unnamed)
where our boat lives in the summer. One has to fish for the pendant with a
hook too - no fun if you return in the dark.

The extra blue line helps secure the loop once made, but one time it got
caught on the bow as we arrived. Again, no fun!

If I owned a marina, I'd offer the most awesome moorings with double
pendants, etc. Everyone will love stopping at my marina.

Violeta


On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Persuasion37 via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Violeta
>
> I can't help you with your toenail, but I do have a word of caution.  I
> strongly recommend that you use two lines on your mooring ball.  There was
> a fellow at our club that only used one line at the start of the season,
> shortly after launch he had to be pulled off the rocks.  Also one of my
> lines failed this year.  I did like the way you secured the loop at the
> cleat.
>
> Mike
> PERSUASION
> C 37 K/CB
> Long Sault
>
> On Nov 13, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Dave. I hope Martin responds, he will be a great contact indeed.
>
> Our toe rail is symmetric, T-shaped, with screws on both sides of the
> vertical part. Here are some photos:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/483a7kvckwx0ys5/AACbT_1GZsShvn8Xr7fWiHtRa?dl=0
>
> We haven't found an exact match yet, so that's another task at hand. Some
> of the photos include a ruler for scale (both cm and in),
>
> Also, I have been reading online about the C designs in the 1970s. I
> can't find much about the limited edition 43', but here is what I am
> finding about the hull to deck joint on other C designs from the 1970s:
>
> - the deck and hull are attached via an internal flange, which is bolted
> -- is that typical?
> - the joint is also chemically bonded -- how does that work? is it common
> on C?
> - the toe rail is attached with screws (or bolts?) and provides additional
> stiffness to the joint
>
> Does this sound right? Is it typical for C construction at the time, or
> could our hull/deck joint be very different?
>
> What might happen when we remove the toe rail?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Violeta
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Violeta,
>>
>> There’s a gentleman on the list by the name of Martin DeYoung who owns a
>> C 43. He has been working deck work on his boat and may be an informative
>> source as regards your model. He hasn’t posted in some time but perhaps he
>> may respond.
>>
>> Perhaps if you could identify the type of toerail that your boat has it
>> would help. You may find that many listers here have some experience. FWIW,
>> a good surveyor should be able to tell you what you are up against. I have
>> done a  complete deck lift and rebed on a Islander 37 with a teak toerail
>> and one of my good friends has replaced the teak toerail with an aluminum
>> toerail on his Cal 40. Non-trivial efforts in both cases.
>>
>> Good luck with your task.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dave Godwin
>> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
>> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2016,
>>
>> at 2:19 PM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List  wrote:
>>
>> Greetings all.
>>
>> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from
>> 1973? This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever
>> built. We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure
>> how that might affect the hull/deck joint.
>>
>> Some specific questions:
>>
>> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'?
>> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
>> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)?
>>
>> Good advice will be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Violeta
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, 

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Persuasion37 via CnC-List]

Violeta

I can't help you with your toenail, but I do have a word of caution.  I 
strongly recommend that you use two lines on your mooring ball.  There was a 
fellow at our club that only used one line at the start of the season, shortly 
after launch he had to be pulled off the rocks.  Also one of my lines failed 
this year.  I did like the way you secured the loop at the cleat.

Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On Nov 13, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dave. I hope Martin responds, he will be a great contact indeed. 
> 
> Our toe rail is symmetric, T-shaped, with screws on both sides of the 
> vertical part. Here are some photos:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/483a7kvckwx0ys5/AACbT_1GZsShvn8Xr7fWiHtRa?dl=0
> 
> We haven't found an exact match yet, so that's another task at hand. Some of 
> the photos include a ruler for scale (both cm and in), 
> 
> Also, I have been reading online about the C designs in the 1970s. I can't 
> find much about the limited edition 43', but here is what I am finding about 
> the hull to deck joint on other C designs from the 1970s: 
> 
> - the deck and hull are attached via an internal flange, which is bolted -- 
> is that typical?
> - the joint is also chemically bonded -- how does that work? is it common on 
> C? 
> - the toe rail is attached with screws (or bolts?) and provides additional 
> stiffness to the joint
> 
> Does this sound right? Is it typical for C construction at the time, or 
> could our hull/deck joint be very different?
> 
> What might happen when we remove the toe rail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Violeta
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi Violeta,
>> 
>> There’s a gentleman on the list by the name of Martin DeYoung who owns a C 
>> 43. He has been working deck work on his boat and may be an informative 
>> source as regards your model. He hasn’t posted in some time but perhaps he 
>> may respond.
>> 
>> Perhaps if you could identify the type of toerail that your boat has it 
>> would help. You may find that many listers here have some experience. FWIW, 
>> a good surveyor should be able to tell you what you are up against. I have 
>> done a  complete deck lift and rebed on a Islander 37 with a teak toerail 
>> and one of my good friends has replaced the teak toerail with an aluminum 
>> toerail on his Cal 40. Non-trivial efforts in both cases.
>> 
>> Good luck with your task.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Dave Godwin
>> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
>> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>> Ronin’s Overdue Refit
>> 
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, 
>>> at 2:19 PM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greetings all. 
>>> 
>>> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973? 
>>> This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built. 
>>> We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that 
>>> might affect the hull/deck joint. 
>>> 
>>> Some specific questions:
>>> 
>>> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'? 
>>> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
>>> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)? 
>>> 
>>> Good advice will be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Violeta
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Thanks, Bob. This is great information! I was wondering where one might
find scale drawings. I will contact the museum.

Good to hear removing the toe rail will not affect the joint structurally.
I thought it might, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Thanks for all the links to vendors! I am replying here to everyone who
responded, so I don't send multiple emails.

Ken - yes, it is the slotted aluminum toe rail. As far as I know, the
reasons for replacement are leaks and corrosion. I was not involved in the
decision to replace the toe rail. The C 43' belongs to my university, and
I am one of her skippers. Great boat!

I had not seen the do it yourself album yet - very useful, thanks. I am
poking around the website now - great resource!

We tried Holland Marine already, but they didn't have our toe rail. Rob
McLaughlin and Klacko Spars are new names for me - thanks for the links. If
anyone can think of other possible sources for that toe rail, please let me
know.

Violeta



On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 10:19 AM, robertlmazza via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Violeta,
>
> All the drawings for the C 43 reside in the C collection in the
> archives if the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If
> you contact the museum curator through the website you can order a copy  of
> the construction plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck
> joint. If you know which 43 you own (original name of boat or her first
> owner) you most can likely get copies of the drawings relating specifically
> to your 43.
>
> However, merely removing and replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize
> the structural integrity of the hull to deck joint over that period.
>
> A replacement rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore
> Yachts in St. Catherines, ON.
>
>
> Rob Mazza
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List
> Date:11-12-2016 2:19 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Violeta Ivanova
> Subject: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>
> Greetings all.
>
> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973?
> This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built.
> We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that
> might affect the hull/deck joint.
>
> Some specific questions:
>
> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'?
> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)?
>
> Good advice will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Violeta
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Richard Gonesailing via CnC-List]

Try Klacko spars they were the fabricators for C 
http://www.klackospars.com/

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> On Nov 13, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dave. I hope Martin responds, he will be a great contact indeed. 
> 
> Our toe rail is symmetric, T-shaped, with screws on both sides of the 
> vertical part. Here are some photos:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/483a7kvckwx0ys5/AACbT_1GZsShvn8Xr7fWiHtRa?dl=0
> 
> We haven't found an exact match yet, so that's another task at hand. Some of 
> the photos include a ruler for scale (both cm and in), 
> 
> Also, I have been reading online about the C designs in the 1970s. I can't 
> find much about the limited edition 43', but here is what I am finding about 
> the hull to deck joint on other C designs from the 1970s: 
> 
> - the deck and hull are attached via an internal flange, which is bolted -- 
> is that typical?
> - the joint is also chemically bonded -- how does that work? is it common on 
> C? 
> - the toe rail is attached with screws (or bolts?) and provides additional 
> stiffness to the joint
> 
> Does this sound right? Is it typical for C construction at the time, or 
> could our hull/deck joint be very different?
> 
> What might happen when we remove the toe rail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Violeta
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi Violeta,
>> 
>> There’s a gentleman on the list by the name of Martin DeYoung who owns a C 
>> 43. He has been working deck work on his boat and may be an informative 
>> source as regards your model. He hasn’t posted in some time but perhaps he 
>> may respond.
>> 
>> Perhaps if you could identify the type of toerail that your boat has it 
>> would help. You may find that many listers here have some experience. FWIW, 
>> a good surveyor should be able to tell you what you are up against. I have 
>> done a  complete deck lift and rebed on a Islander 37 with a teak toerail 
>> and one of my good friends has replaced the teak toerail with an aluminum 
>> toerail on his Cal 40. Non-trivial efforts in both cases.
>> 
>> Good luck with your task.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Dave Godwin
>> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
>> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>> Ronin’s Overdue Refit
>> 
>>> On Nov 12, 2016, 
>>> at 2:19 PM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greetings all. 
>>> 
>>> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973? 
>>> This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built. 
>>> We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that 
>>> might affect the hull/deck joint. 
>>> 
>>> Some specific questions:
>>> 
>>> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'? 
>>> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
>>> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)? 
>>> 
>>> Good advice will be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Violeta
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Hello Violeta,

I'm not sure what your existing toe rail is or why you are replacing it.  I
expect it is the slotted aluminum toe rail.

Have you seen this?

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/toerail/toerail.htm

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/


If you are looking for a replacement to match the original you may be able
to buy it here:

In stock...many types of C Toerailhundreds of feet! All pre 1998

http://www.hollandmarine.com/

http://www.hollandmarine.com/CCfolder/CC001.html

Ken H.

On 13 November 2016 at 11:19, robertlmazza via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Violeta,
>
> All the drawings for the C 43 reside in the C collection in the
> archives if the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If
> you contact the museum curator through the website you can order a copy  of
> the construction plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck
> joint. If you know which 43 you own (original name of boat or her first
> owner) you most can likely get copies of the drawings relating specifically
> to your 43.
>
> However, merely removing and replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize
> the structural integrity of the hull to deck joint over that period.
>
> A replacement rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore
> Yachts in St. Catherines, ON.
>
>
> Rob Mazza
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List
> Date:11-12-2016 2:19 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Violeta Ivanova
> Subject: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail
> replacement?)
>
> Greetings all.
>
> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973?
> This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built.
> We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that
> might affect the hull/deck joint.
>
> Some specific questions:
>
> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'?
> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)?
>
> Good advice will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Violeta
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[robertlmazza via CnC-List]

Violeta,

All the drawings for the C 43 reside in the C collection in the archives if 
the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston (Ontario). If you contact the 
museum curator through the website you can order a copy  of the construction 
plan which most likely show the toe rail and hull to deck joint. If you know 
which 43 you own (original name of boat or her first owner) you most can likely 
get copies of the drawings relating specifically to your 43.

However, merely removing and replacing the toe rail will not jeopardize the 
structural integrity of the hull to deck joint over that period.

A replacement rail may be available from Rob McLaughlin at South Shore Yachts 
in St. Catherines, ON.


Rob Mazza


Sent from Samsung Mobile

 Original message From: Violeta Ivanova via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date:11-12-2016  2:19 PM  
(GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Violeta Ivanova 
<vmivan...@gmail.com> Subject: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - 
hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?) 
Greetings all. 

Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973? This 
was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built. We would 
like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that might affect 
the hull/deck joint. 

Some specific questions:

1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'? 
2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)? 

Good advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Violeta



  
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Thanks Dave. I hope Martin responds, he will be a great contact indeed.

Our toe rail is symmetric, T-shaped, with screws on both sides of the
vertical part. Here are some photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/483a7kvckwx0ys5/AACbT_1GZsShvn8Xr7fWiHtRa?dl=0

We haven't found an exact match yet, so that's another task at hand. Some
of the photos include a ruler for scale (both cm and in),

Also, I have been reading online about the C designs in the 1970s. I
can't find much about the limited edition 43', but here is what I am
finding about the hull to deck joint on other C designs from the 1970s:

- the deck and hull are attached via an internal flange, which is bolted --
is that typical?
- the joint is also chemically bonded -- how does that work? is it common
on C?
- the toe rail is attached with screws (or bolts?) and provides additional
stiffness to the joint

Does this sound right? Is it typical for C construction at the time, or
could our hull/deck joint be very different?

What might happen when we remove the toe rail?

Thanks,

Violeta


On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Violeta,
>
> There’s a gentleman on the list by the name of Martin DeYoung who owns a
> C 43. He has been working deck work on his boat and may be an informative
> source as regards your model. He hasn’t posted in some time but perhaps he
> may respond.
>
> Perhaps if you could identify the type of toerail that your boat has it
> would help. You may find that many listers here have some experience. FWIW,
> a good surveyor should be able to tell you what you are up against. I have
> done a  complete deck lift and rebed on a Islander 37 with a teak toerail
> and one of my good friends has replaced the teak toerail with an aluminum
> toerail on his Cal 40. Non-trivial efforts in both cases.
>
> Good luck with your task.
>
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>
> On Nov 12, 2016,
>
> at 2:19 PM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List  wrote:
>
> Greetings all.
>
> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973?
> This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built.
> We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that
> might affect the hull/deck joint.
>
> Some specific questions:
>
> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'?
> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)?
>
> Good advice will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Violeta
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Hi Violeta,

There’s a gentleman on the list by the name of Martin DeYoung who owns a C 
43. He has been working deck work on his boat and may be an informative source 
as regards your model. He hasn’t posted in some time but perhaps he may respond.

Perhaps if you could identify the type of toerail that your boat has it would 
help. You may find that many listers here have some experience. FWIW, a good 
surveyor should be able to tell you what you are up against. I have done a  
complete deck lift and rebed on a Islander 37 with a teak toerail and one of my 
good friends has replaced the teak toerail with an aluminum toerail on his Cal 
40. Non-trivial efforts in both cases.

Good luck with your task.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
> On Nov 12, 2016, 
> at 2:19 PM, Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Greetings all. 
> 
> Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973? 
> This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built. 
> We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that 
> might affect the hull/deck joint. 
> 
> Some specific questions:
> 
> 1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'? 
> 2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
> 3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)? 
> 
> Good advice will be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Violeta
> 
> 
> 
>   
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List 1973 custom C 43' - hull/deck joint (toe rail replacement?)

[Violeta Ivanova via CnC-List]

Greetings all.

Might someone here help with questions about the custom C 43' from 1973?
This was a limited edition and I think only fourteen boats were ever built.
We would like to replace the toe rail on our boat, but are unsure how that
might affect the hull/deck joint.

Some specific questions:

1 - What is the structure of the hull/deck joint on the 1973 C 43'?
2 - How is the toe rail integrated with the hull/deck joint?
3 - What happens if we remove the toe rail (or part of it)?

Good advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Violeta
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!