Stus-List Spinnaker and C 30 mk2

[Joel Delamirande via CnC-List]

Good afternoon gentlemen
I’m looking for a spinnaker for C 30 mk1 1974 if has one in good shape
I have a new sailor wanting to buy C 30 mk2 specifically between 88-91
In good to great condition with a easy and polite sale, so far he had two
rude people sadly
Shoot me a text 905 818-1336
Fair winds and great season for 2024

Joel Delamirande
*www.jdroofing.ca *
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me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Thanks for your help.
Stu

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole end fittings

[TERRY DAUDRICH via CnC-List]

Put a tie wrap around the trigger projection that's inside the jaws to hold
it triggered and now your back to a standard set up. Now you'll both types
to choose from. Some wipping or lashing would probably work also and be
easy to change back.

On Fri., Mar. 13, 2020, 4:08 p.m. Bruno Lachance via CnC-List, <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't post a lot but i've been following this list for over 10 years now.
>
> I need your help today, especcially looking for experience bowman feedback
> and advice.
>
> I'm in the market for a spinnaker pole for ou 33-2 and i have to choose
> between "standard" end fittings, like the UXP Forespar or Selden and the
> UTR from Forespar or what we could call a "trigger" fitting.
>
> My experience is more with asymetrical kites so i dont really have an
> opinion on one versus the other. we usually sail short handed and club race
> with a small crew, the UTR fitting seems nice and modern but is there any
> downside ? like is there a risk i will need to fight with it if it doesn't
> want to trigger on the sheet\guy  in very light air when there is not a lot
> of tension on the ropes?
>
> Are those trigger fittings really a plus or should i go classic?
>
> My only spinnaker is a light-medium air A2. i have a ring car on the mast.
> My plan is to go with end for end gybing.
>
> Thank you for your knowledge on that subject.
>
>
>
> Bruno Lachance
> Bécassine, 33-2 #166
> New-Richmond, Qc
>
>
>
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>
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> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
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>
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Stus-List Spinnaker pole end fittings

[Morgan Ellis via CnC-List]

Hi Bruno, I have done foredeck on several boats. Both end-o's and dip pole,
I like the triggers for dip pole but I don't feel that they would be any
advantage at all for end for end. And on 35' and smaller boats you
definitely want to be doing the end-o's. I suggest to keep it simple and
stick with standard ends.

Regards,

Morgan
Meandher 30-2
Thunder Bay, ON
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Stus-List Spinnaker pole end fittings

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Hi,

I don't post a lot but i've been following this list for over 10 years now.

I need your help today, especcially looking for experience bowman feedback and 
advice.

I'm in the market for a spinnaker pole for ou 33-2 and i have to choose between 
"standard" end fittings, like the UXP Forespar or Selden and the UTR from 
Forespar or what we could call a "trigger" fitting.

My experience is more with asymetrical kites so i dont really have an opinion 
on one versus the other. we usually sail short handed and club race with a 
small crew, the UTR fitting seems nice and modern but is there any downside ? 
like is there a risk i will need to fight with it if it doesn't want to trigger 
on the sheet\guy  in very light air when there is not a lot of tension on the 
ropes?

Are those trigger fittings really a plus or should i go classic?

My only spinnaker is a light-medium air A2. i have a ring car on the mast. My 
plan is to go with end for end gybing.

Thank you for your knowledge on that subject.



Bruno Lachance
Bécassine, 33-2 #166
New-Richmond, Qc



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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

[Glen Eddie via CnC-List]

Thanks but I think the required work to cut them will not be cost effective.

Glen Eddie

Tel:  416-777-5357

Fax:  1-888-812-2557


Torkin Manes LLP
Barristers & Solicitors

This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named 
recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, confidential 
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this 
message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email message. Thank 
you.

From: Rich [mailto:cpasai...@yahoo.com]
Sent: September-03-19 12:41 PM
To: Glen Eddie; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

I have a couple of very good spinnakers available from my 35-3. Contact me if 
interested.

Sent from my iPhone
Richard Spitzenberger  CPA
Phone 631-331-3140
r...@spitzenbergercpa.com


On Sep 3, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Glen Eddie 
mailto:ged...@torkinmanes.com>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

The 47 year old delivery spinnaker I bought several years ago (I believe from 
Dennis) finally powdered in an epic explosion last Wednesday.  There is not 
enough sail tape in the world to fix it.

Does anyone have a used spinnaker for a C 35 Mk I that they want to sell.  My 
crew is not ready (nor is my wife) for a new spinnaker purchase.

Happy to discuss offline.  Thanks.


Glen Eddie

Tel:  416-777-5357

Fax:  1-888-812-2557

ged...@torkinmanes.com

VCard

Torkin Manes LLP
Barristers & Solicitors
151 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
Toronto ON M5C 2W7
torkinmanes.com
An international member of Ally Law

This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named 
recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, confidential 
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this 
message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email message. Thank 
you.
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

[John Read via CnC-List]

Have tired but usable from our 34.  Free for shipping and donation to Stu.
Noank CT. John Read

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019, 10:25 AM Glen Eddie via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> The 47 year old delivery spinnaker I bought several years ago (I believe
> from Dennis) finally powdered in an epic explosion last Wednesday.  There
> is not enough sail tape in the world to fix it.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a used spinnaker for a C 35 Mk I that they want to
> sell.  My crew is not ready (nor is my wife) for a new spinnaker purchase.
>
>
>
> Happy to discuss offline.  Thanks.
>
>
> --
>
> *Glen Eddie*
>
> Tel:  416-777-5357
>
> Fax:  1-888-812-2557
>
> ged...@torkinmanes.com
>
> VCard 
>
> *Torkin Manes LLP*
> Barristers & Solicitors
>
> 151 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
> Toronto ON M5C 2W7
> torkinmanes.com 
>
> An international member of Ally Law
>
> This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named
> recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, confidential
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received
> this message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email
> message. Thank you.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

[Rich via CnC-List]

I have a couple of very good spinnakers available from my 35-3. Contact me if 
interested. 

Sent from my iPhone
Richard Spitzenberger  CPA
Phone 631-331-3140
r...@spitzenbergercpa.com


> On Sep 3, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Glen Eddie  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
>  
> The 47 year old delivery spinnaker I bought several years ago (I believe from 
> Dennis) finally powdered in an epic explosion last Wednesday.  There is not 
> enough sail tape in the world to fix it. 
>  
> Does anyone have a used spinnaker for a C 35 Mk I that they want to sell.  
> My crew is not ready (nor is my wife) for a new spinnaker purchase. 
>  
> Happy to discuss offline.  Thanks.
>  
> Glen Eddie
> Tel:  416-777-5357
> Fax:  1-888-812-2557
> ged...@torkinmanes.com
> VCard
> Torkin Manes LLP
> Barristers & Solicitors
> 151 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
> Toronto ON M5C 2W7 
> torkinmanes.com
> An international member of Ally Law
> 
> This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named 
> recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, confidential 
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this 
> message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email message. 
> Thank you.
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

[Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List]

I have a couple and am in London On so relatively close. Send me an email
and we can discuss.

Jeff

On Tue., Sep. 3, 2019, 10:25 a.m. Glen Eddie via CnC-List, <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> The 47 year old delivery spinnaker I bought several years ago (I believe
> from Dennis) finally powdered in an epic explosion last Wednesday.  There
> is not enough sail tape in the world to fix it.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a used spinnaker for a C 35 Mk I that they want to
> sell.  My crew is not ready (nor is my wife) for a new spinnaker purchase.
>
>
>
> Happy to discuss offline.  Thanks.
>
>
> --
>
> *Glen Eddie*
>
> Tel:  416-777-5357
>
> Fax:  1-888-812-2557
>
> ged...@torkinmanes.com
>
> VCard 
>
> *Torkin Manes LLP*
> Barristers & Solicitors
>
> 151 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
> Toronto ON M5C 2W7
> torkinmanes.com 
>
> An international member of Ally Law
>
> This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named
> recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, confidential
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received
> this message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email
> message. Thank you.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Say it isn't so.  Sniff.  Sniff.  Snuffle.  A part of Touche' dies in an
epic way.  Fitting, I guess.  RIP.  It lived a good long life.

Sorry I don't have another extra for you.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 9:25 AM Glen Eddie via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> The 47 year old delivery spinnaker I bought several years ago (I believe
> from Dennis) finally powdered in an epic explosion last Wednesday.  There
> is not enough sail tape in the world to fix it.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a used spinnaker for a C 35 Mk I that they want to
> sell.  My crew is not ready (nor is my wife) for a new spinnaker purchase.
>
>
>
> Happy to discuss offline.  Thanks.
>
>
> --
>
> *Glen Eddie*
>
> Tel:  416-777-5357
>
> Fax:  1-888-812-2557
>
> ged...@torkinmanes.com
>
> VCard 
>
> *Torkin Manes LLP*
> Barristers & Solicitors
>
> 151 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
> Toronto ON M5C 2W7
> torkinmanes.com 
>
> An international member of Ally Law
>
> This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named
> recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, confidential
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received
> this message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email
> message. Thank you.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

[schiller via CnC-List]

What weight?  I have a 3/4 oz and a 1.5 oz out in the barn (I gifted the 
1/2 oz to Glenn Gambell for his 36).  They came off our old Redwing 35 
(C 35-1, Hull #7).  No turtle for the 3/4 oz as I already stole that 
for the Asym on our 35-3.


Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC


On 9/3/2019 10:24 AM, Glen Eddie via CnC-List wrote:


Hello everyone,

The 47 year old delivery spinnaker I bought several years ago (I 
believe from Dennis) finally powdered in an epic explosion last 
Wednesday.  There is not enough sail tape in the world to fix it.


Does anyone have a used spinnaker for a C 35 Mk I that they want to 
sell.  My crew is not ready (nor is my wife) for a new spinnaker 
purchase.


Happy to discuss offline.  Thanks.



*Glen Eddie*

Tel:  416-777-5357

Fax:  1-888-812-2557

ged...@torkinmanes.com 

VCard 

*Torkin Manes LLP**
*Barristers & Solicitors

151 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
Toronto ON M5C 2W7
torkinmanes.com 

An international member of Ally Law

This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the 
named recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, 
confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If 
you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and 
delete this email message. Thank you.



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



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Stus-List Spinnaker for C 35 Mk I

[Glen Eddie via CnC-List]

Hello everyone,

The 47 year old delivery spinnaker I bought several years ago (I believe from 
Dennis) finally powdered in an epic explosion last Wednesday.  There is not 
enough sail tape in the world to fix it.

Does anyone have a used spinnaker for a C 35 Mk I that they want to sell.  My 
crew is not ready (nor is my wife) for a new spinnaker purchase.

Happy to discuss offline.  Thanks.


Glen Eddie

Tel:  416-777-5357

Fax:  1-888-812-2557

ged...@torkinmanes.com

VCard

Torkin Manes LLP
Barristers & Solicitors
151 Yonge Street, Suite 1500
Toronto ON M5C 2W7
torkinmanes.com
An international member of Ally Law

This email message, and any attachments, is intended only for the named 
recipient(s) above and may contain content that is privileged, confidential 
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this 
message in error, please notify the sender and delete this email message. Thank 
you.
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Did not mean to say it was easy. Flying a kite requires skill lots of
practice and crew coordination and attention. The helmsman has a very
important job to do. If conditions are too tough to manage it might be wise
to leave the kite in the bag because once it is up there in the wind it
carries a lot of power and can be difficult to control.  Practice with your
crew in open water before trying in a congested racing fleet helps a lot.

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:38 PM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Easier said than done on my boat in Lake Erie waves.
>
> *From:* dwight veinot via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 13, 2019 9:57 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* dwight veinot 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spinnaker
>
> Hope you agree the helmsman and how well he holds the course ddw has a lot
> to do with mitigating danger during a spin jibe and if done properly there
> should no be excessive force on the mast end. Essentially the helmsman has
> to be able to free fly the kite ddw during the jibe until the contacts at
> either end have been secured, sheet end first. My 35MKII is setup for end
> for end jibes with a fairly substantial aluminium pole that is over 16 feet
> long, J is 16’5” if memory serves.
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:08 AM robert via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Tom:
>>
>> You will get differing views on end for end or dip pole.  Personally, I
>> prefer the dip pole method..maybe that is because I was the bowman on
>> different boats including a 1985 C 33 MKII where we only did the dip pole
>> method.
>>
>> Dip pole is especially better in heavier air, by better I mean safer and
>> way easier to accomplish.there is no struggling or danger to the bowman
>> if done right.  I always positioned myself in front of the forestay between
>> it and bow pulpit squatting down, not standing up with my chest virtually
>> resting against the forestay .lazy guy in one hand ready to receive the
>> pole as it comes down and across with the other hand.
>>
>> When it is choreographed correctly, it is a smooth, safe and effective
>> means of controlling the chute in all conditions.
>>
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C 32- #277
>> Halifax, N.S.
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Tom Lynch via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:23 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Tom Lynch
>> *Subject:* Stus-List Spinnaker
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my
>> 33 MK II
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets
>>
>>
>>
>> Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
>>
>> Or use a twinning line barber hauling system
>>
>>
>>
>> How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
>> Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Lynch
>>
>> IndoIrish
>>
>> C 33 MK II
>>
>> Bayfield Wisconsin.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
> --
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Easier said than done on my boat in Lake Erie waves.

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 9:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

Hope you agree the helmsman and how well he holds the course ddw has a lot to 
do with mitigating danger during a spin jibe and if done properly there should 
no be excessive force on the mast end. Essentially the helmsman has to be able 
to free fly the kite ddw during the jibe until the contacts at either end have 
been secured, sheet end first. My 35MKII is setup for end for end jibes with a 
fairly substantial aluminium pole that is over 16 feet long, J is 16’5” if 
memory serves. 

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:08 AM robert via CnC-List  
wrote:

Tom:

  You will get differing views on end for end or dip pole.  Personally, I 
prefer the dip pole method..maybe that is because I was the bowman on 
different boats including a 1985 C 33 MKII where we only did the dip pole 
method.

  Dip pole is especially better in heavier air, by better I mean safer and way 
easier to accomplish.there is no struggling or danger to the bowman if done 
right.  I always positioned myself in front of the forestay between it and bow 
pulpit squatting down, not standing up with my chest virtually resting against 
the forestay .lazy guy in one hand ready to receive the pole as it comes 
down and across with the other hand.

  When it is choreographed correctly, it is a smooth, safe and effective means 
of controlling the chute in all conditions.

  Rob Abbott
  AZURA
  C 32- #277
  Halifax, N.S.





From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tom 
Lynch via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tom Lynch
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker



Hi all,



I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 
MK II



I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets



Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?

Or use a twinning line barber hauling system 



How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a 
Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing. 



Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject. 



Tom Lynch

IndoIrish

C 33 MK II

Bayfield Wisconsin. 




 
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-- 

Sent from Gmail Mobile



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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Hope you agree the helmsman and how well he holds the course ddw has a lot
to do with mitigating danger during a spin jibe and if done properly there
should no be excessive force on the mast end. Essentially the helmsman has
to be able to free fly the kite ddw during the jibe until the contacts at
either end have been secured, sheet end first. My 35MKII is setup for end
for end jibes with a fairly substantial aluminium pole that is over 16 feet
long, J is 16’5” if memory serves.

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:08 AM robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Tom:
>
> You will get differing views on end for end or dip pole.  Personally, I
> prefer the dip pole method..maybe that is because I was the bowman on
> different boats including a 1985 C 33 MKII where we only did the dip pole
> method.
>
> Dip pole is especially better in heavier air, by better I mean safer and
> way easier to accomplish.there is no struggling or danger to the bowman
> if done right.  I always positioned myself in front of the forestay between
> it and bow pulpit squatting down, not standing up with my chest virtually
> resting against the forestay .lazy guy in one hand ready to receive the
> pole as it comes down and across with the other hand.
>
> When it is choreographed correctly, it is a smooth, safe and effective
> means of controlling the chute in all conditions.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32- #277
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Tom Lynch via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:23 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Tom Lynch
> *Subject:* Stus-List Spinnaker
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my
> 33 MK II
>
>
>
> I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets
>
>
>
> Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
>
> Or use a twinning line barber hauling system
>
>
>
> How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
> Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.
>
>
>
> Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.
>
>
>
> Tom Lynch
>
> IndoIrish
>
> C 33 MK II
>
> Bayfield Wisconsin.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Spinnaker

[robert via CnC-List]

Tom:

You will get differing views on end for end or dip pole. Personally, I 
prefer the dip pole method..maybe that is because I was the bowman 
on different boats including a 1985 C 33 MKII where we only did the 
dip pole method.


Dip pole is especially better in heavier air, by better I mean safer and 
way easier to accomplish.there is no struggling or danger to the 
bowman if done right.  I always positioned myself in front of the 
forestay between it and bow pulpit squatting down, not standing up with 
my chest virtually resting against the forestay .lazy guy in one 
hand ready to receive the pole as it comes down and across with the 
other hand.


When it is choreographed correctly, it is a smooth, safe and effective 
means of controlling the chute in all conditions.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32- #277
Halifax, N.S.



*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Tom Lynch via CnC-List

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:23 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Tom Lynch
*Subject:* Stus-List Spinnaker

Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on 
my 33 MK II


I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?

Or use a twinning line barber hauling system

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate 
a Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.


Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Tom Lynch

IndoIrish

C 33 MK II

Bayfield Wisconsin.


___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Tom

The 33-2 is very similar to our Frers 33 in rig size and most everything else.  
We do end for end.  The 33-2 that docks beside us has a pole with a mast end 
fitting so must do dip pole.  Their foredeck person has sailed with us and says 
he would prefer that the 33-2 had end for end capability.

The chute on our 33 and yours gets difficult to gybe in over 15 knots with a 
single set of sheets.  There can be a lot of pressure on the pole when 
attempting to connect it to the mast doing end for end.  Many 33-2 and Frers 33 
use separate sheets and guys in over 15 knots true.  We are contemplating that 
as well but do not like the extra lines/confusion in the cockpit.  Dip pole may 
be another option when the wind gets up … not sure.

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33 #16
Halifax, NS
www.hoytsailing.com

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tom Lynch 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tom Lynch
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker

Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 MK 
II

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
Or use a twinning line barber hauling system

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a Pole 
dip or do pole end for end jibing.

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Tom Lynch
IndoIrish
C 33 MK II
Bayfield Wisconsin.

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

End for end for sure. Biggest kite you got is the one to use most. the boat
is great to weather both high and fast but likes a stiff breeze downwind
big triradial 180 percent 3/4 ox is good and steer to hold power under good
luff trim. Gotta play with the lines to learn and it takes a competent crew
interested learning their respective jobs. The 33 MKII is a winning design
So you can’t blame lack of success on the boat.  I considered a 33MKII
second place to the 35MKII that i eventually got. Nice boat some have a
keel sump issue that can cost thousands to fix.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 7:25 PM John and Maryann Read via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ditto to what Edd advises except for:
>
> 1)  Really light air –we have an extra set of sheets ready to go of
> light sheets and shackles – reduces weight of the chute so it still can fly
> and makes a HUGE difference
>
> 2)  Heavy air – the 34 is rather tender so the chute overpowers
> everything and we find going with the 135 set wing on wing works much
> better as no roundups or excitement.  We are doing hull speed anyway so why
> push things??   Your boat may be different
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> John and Maryann
>
> Legacy III
>
> 1982 C 34
>
> Noank, CT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Edd
> Schillay via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2019 5:05 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Edd Schillay
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spinnaker
>
>
>
> Tom,
>
>
>
> The Enterprise-A was a C 34, which was very similar to yours. While I
> can say universally that you should disconnect the babystay when using the
> chute, I’ll state that the answer to your other questions, at least for me,
> depends on conditions.
>
>
>
> A single sheet and single guy, going end to end, is the simple way in
> light air, however, I would suggest the flexibility of changing how you do
> things when wind conditions increase. In moderate air I would add lazies.
> In heavy air, you and your foredeck ape will probably prefer to dip the
> pole, so that one end is always attached giving you better control.
>
>
>
> Skills-wise, your crew will also appreciate knowing how to handle various
> setups.
>
>
>
> As I said, no matter what, you’re going to want that babystay off,
> especially since your pole uphaul will help keep the pole up during those
> jibe maneuvers, and it will get caught up in the babystay if it’s fully
> attached doing an end-to-end jibe. It will be impossible to do a dip-pole
> jibe with a babystay in place.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Edd
>
>
>
> ---—---
>
> Edd M. Schillay
>
> Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
>
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>
> City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY
>
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL
>
> www.StarshipSailing.com
>
> -
>
> 914.774.9767   | Mobile
>
> -
>
> Sent via iPhone X
>
> iPhone. iTypos. iApologize
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2019, at 3:22 PM, Tom Lynch via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my
> 33 MK II
>
>
>
> I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets
>
>
>
> Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
>
> Or use a twinning line barber hauling system
>
>
>
> How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
> Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.
>
>
>
> Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.
>
>
>
> Tom Lynch
>
> IndoIrish
>
> C 33 MK II
>
> Bayfield Wisconsin.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Good advice well put.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 12, 2019, at 6:10 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Tom,

Good advice so far.  <35 feet end for end.

My most important advice = train your crew, and especially your helmsperson, to 
visualize the boat turning under the chute.  NOT the chute coming across the 
boat.  Have your crew visualize the chute going dead downwind without changing 
aspect.  The boat just turns back and forth at an angle to the chute.

Practice with your crew in light air.  Have the helmperson make slow, smooth 
turns.  Let the bowman make the pole on the mast.  The bowman stands just to 
leeward of the mast with the new sheet in one hand and the trip line in the 
other hand.  The downhaul and twings (tweakers) get released.  On the command 
"gybing", he releases the pole jaw from the ring, slaps the new sheet in the 
jaw, swings the pole across while releasing the old sheet (new guy) and makes 
the other jaw on the ring.  "Mast - sheet - sheet -mast".  At the last "Mast", 
the main is gybed.  The boat should be about halfway through the turn.  Slow 
turn.  Slow.

If the bowman is having trouble, slow or even stop the turn until the pole is 
made on the mast.

I'm not a big guy.  I've been doing foredeck for many years.  It's a 
choreography between bowman and helmsperson.  The helmsperson has to LET the 
bowman do the gybe.  The bowman should dictate the speed of the turn.  Too 
often, the helmsperson wants to complete the turn before the bow work is 
finished.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 2:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 MK 
II

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
Or use a twinning line barber hauling system

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a Pole 
dip or do pole end for end jibing.

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Tom Lynch
IndoIrish
C 33 MK II
Bayfield Wisconsin.

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurraydata=02%7C01%7C%7Cbbf634db3e5a4c6cdb6f08d6ef82cdc0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636959742404892397sdata=FfUgQI0O%2BVxae6gHNG0rxY7DqpC7qWsH2uCOgeLtb0Q%3Dreserved=0

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Ditto to what Edd advises except for:

1)  Really light air –we have an extra set of sheets ready to go of light 
sheets and shackles – reduces weight of the chute so it still can fly and makes 
a HUGE difference

2)  Heavy air – the 34 is rather tender so the chute overpowers everything 
and we find going with the 135 set wing on wing works much better as no 
roundups or excitement.  We are doing hull speed anyway so why push things??   
Your boat may be different

 

Cheers

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 5:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

 

Tom,

 

The Enterprise-A was a C 34, which was very similar to yours. While I can say 
universally that you should disconnect the babystay when using the chute, I’ll 
state that the answer to your other questions, at least for me, depends on 
conditions. 

 

A single sheet and single guy, going end to end, is the simple way in light 
air, however, I would suggest the flexibility of changing how you do things 
when wind conditions increase. In moderate air I would add lazies. In heavy 
air, you and your foredeck ape will probably prefer to dip the pole, so that 
one end is always attached giving you better control. 

 

Skills-wise, your crew will also appreciate knowing how to handle various 
setups. 

 

As I said, no matter what, you’re going to want that babystay off, especially 
since your pole uphaul will help keep the pole up during those jibe maneuvers, 
and it will get caught up in the babystay if it’s fully attached doing an 
end-to-end jibe. It will be impossible to do a dip-pole jibe with a babystay in 
place. 

 

All the best, 

 

Edd





---—---

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”

C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY

Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL

www.StarshipSailing.com

-

914.774.9767   | Mobile

-

Sent via iPhone X

iPhone. iTypos. iApologize






On Jun 12, 2019, at 3:22 PM, Tom Lynch via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi all,

 

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 MK 
II

 

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

 

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?

Or use a twinning line barber hauling system 

 

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a Pole 
dip or do pole end for end jibing. 

 

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject. 

 

Tom Lynch

IndoIrish

C 33 MK II

Bayfield Wisconsin. 

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Tom,

Good advice so far.  <35 feet end for end.

My most important advice = train your crew, and especially your
helmsperson, to visualize the boat turning under the chute.  NOT the chute
coming across the boat.  Have your crew visualize the chute going dead
downwind without changing aspect.  The boat just turns back and forth at an
angle to the chute.

Practice with your crew in light air.  Have the helmperson make slow,
smooth turns.  Let the bowman make the pole on the mast.  The bowman stands
just to leeward of the mast with the new sheet in one hand and the trip
line in the other hand.  The downhaul and twings (tweakers) get released.
On the command "gybing", he releases the pole jaw from the ring, slaps the
new sheet in the jaw, swings the pole across while releasing the old sheet
(new guy) and makes the other jaw on the ring.  "Mast - sheet - sheet
-mast".  At the last "Mast", the main is gybed.  The boat should be about
halfway through the turn.  Slow turn.  Slow.

If the bowman is having trouble, slow or even stop the turn until the pole
is made on the mast.

I'm not a big guy.  I've been doing foredeck for many years.  It's a
choreography between bowman and helmsperson.  The helmsperson has to LET
the bowman do the gybe.  The bowman should dictate the speed of the turn.
Too often, the helmsperson wants to complete the turn before the bow work
is finished.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 2:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my
> 33 MK II
>
> I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets
>
> Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
> Or use a twinning line barber hauling system
>
> How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
> Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.
>
> Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.
>
> Tom Lynch
> IndoIrish
> C 33 MK II
> Bayfield Wisconsin.
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Tom,

The Enterprise-A was a C 34, which was very similar to yours. While I can say 
universally that you should disconnect the babystay when using the chute, I’ll 
state that the answer to your other questions, at least for me, depends on 
conditions. 

A single sheet and single guy, going end to end, is the simple way in light 
air, however, I would suggest the flexibility of changing how you do things 
when wind conditions increase. In moderate air I would add lazies. In heavy 
air, you and your foredeck ape will probably prefer to dip the pole, so that 
one end is always attached giving you better control. 

Skills-wise, your crew will also appreciate knowing how to handle various 
setups. 

As I said, no matter what, you’re going to want that babystay off, especially 
since your pole uphaul will help keep the pole up during those jibe maneuvers, 
and it will get caught up in the babystay if it’s fully attached doing an 
end-to-end jibe. It will be impossible to do a dip-pole jibe with a babystay in 
place. 

All the best, 

Edd

---—---
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY
Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL
www.StarshipSailing.com
-
914.774.9767   | Mobile
-
Sent via iPhone X
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On Jun 12, 2019, at 3:22 PM, Tom Lynch via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 MK 
II

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
Or use a twinning line barber hauling system 

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a Pole 
dip or do pole end for end jibing. 

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject. 

Tom Lynch
IndoIrish
C 33 MK II
Bayfield Wisconsin. 

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

Your spinnaker is just a small bit larger than mine – less than a foot longer 
in the foot and a few feet taller. That is possible to handle with two folks on 
the foredeck – end for end jibing and a 13 foot pole. On the 30-1, our pole is 
13 ½ feet and our hoist is 39 whereas yours is 44. We have been doing 
end-for-end and using a single set of sheets for over 25 years with success.

 

We do have a set of twings – the lines are run through blocks on the rail at 
the widest point and run back to cam cleats/blocks near the cockpit. We use 
them all the time, pull them tight when jibing, letting the ‘sheet’ end loose 
and keeping the pole end tight. We are not very brave and do not do serious 
reaching with the chute because it is full and high shouldered – would like to 
have a smaller, flatter, chute for reaching, but that just adds complexity for 
our short races. The 30-1 is very stout, I don’t know how tender the 33 is.

 

I have crewed on a number of boats with sheets/guys and dipping and I find our 
way is much simpler – and not so prone to mistakes. But I’ve crewed on J-80’s 
and find a sprit and asym easiest of all. The 115 I will be on tonight with an 
extra long pole is most difficult to get right.

 

Keep it simple and you will find it enjoyable.

Gary Nylander

St. Michaels MD 

30-1 Penniless

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:17 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

 

 

I believe that regardless of method (end-for-end or dip jibe) the consensus is 
that the baby stay is best disconnected and stowed at/on the mast collar.

 

I've always been an end-for-end foredeck crew but that was on someone else's 
boat.  With just 2 spin-lines (1 guy and 1 sheet) it kept the setup simple.  We 
had twing blocks but only set them as an after though and most of the time not 
even then.  The downhaul was usually effective enough unless we were forced to 
be on really deep down wind runs for a long time.  The helmsman and tactician 
knew this was a slow point of sail so they avoided that point of sail.

 

I've learned from this list that the end-for-end is typically good for boats up 
to 35-ish feet.  Much over that and the pressures involved with such a large 
pole and kite become difficult for even the biggest of crew to manage.

 

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 3:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

___

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I believe that regardless of method (end-for-end or dip jibe) the consensus
is that the baby stay is best disconnected and stowed at/on the mast collar.

I've always been an end-for-end foredeck crew but that was on someone
else's boat.  With just 2 spin-lines (1 guy and 1 sheet) it kept the setup
simple.  We had twing blocks but only set them as an after though and most
of the time not even then.  The downhaul was usually effective enough
unless we were forced to be on really deep down wind runs for a long time.
The helmsman and tactician knew this was a slow point of sail so they
avoided that point of sail.

I've learned from this list that the end-for-end is typically good for
boats up to 35-ish feet.  Much over that and the pressures involved with
such a large pole and kite become difficult for even the biggest of crew to
manage.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 3:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my
> 33 MK II
>
> I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets
>
> Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
> Or use a twinning line barber hauling system
>
> How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
> Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.
>
> Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.
>
> Tom Lynch
> IndoIrish
> C 33 MK II
> Bayfield Wisconsin.
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Spinnaker

[Tom Lynch via CnC-List]

Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33
MK II

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
Or use a twinning line barber hauling system

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Tom Lynch
IndoIrish
C 33 MK II
Bayfield Wisconsin.
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker sail wanted--light air

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

Brett,

If you can get me some sizing I woud be happy to check at Crazy Joes Marine 
Consignment in Oriental NC

New owner good guy with a boat load of used sails in stock …



John Conklin




From: CnC-List  on behalf of Brett Robertson via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 5:50:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Brett Robertson
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker sail wanted--light air

Anyone have a light weight symmetric spinnaker sail they would like to sell?  I 
have a 1.5oz, and want something for lighter winds.  Maybe .5oz or .75oz.  If 
you are familiar with any used sail websites or new sail companies that are 
reasonable please let me know.

I own a 1986 33 mk2.

Thank you,
Brett

brettrobertso...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker sail wanted--light air

[David via CnC-List]

Www.L-36.com has a used sail compiler from all sources

>From my Android


From: CnC-List  on behalf of robert via CnC-List 

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 6:15:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert; Brett Robertson
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker sail wanted--light air

Brett

Try Bacon Sails...they might have what you are looking for.

We raced a 33 MKII and used a 0.5 oz. most of the timein heavier air
we used the 1.5 oz.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax N.S.

On 2019-02-24 6:50 p.m., Brett Robertson via CnC-List wrote:
> Anyone have a light weight symmetric spinnaker sail they would like to sell?  
> I have a 1.5oz, and want something for lighter winds.  Maybe .5oz or .75oz.  
> If you are familiar with any used sail websites or new sail companies that 
> are reasonable please let me know.
>
> I own a 1986 33 mk2.
>
> Thank you,
> Brett
>
> brettrobertso...@gmail.com
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>


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Stus-List Spinnaker sail wanted--light air

[robert via CnC-List]

Brett

Try Bacon Sails...they might have what you are looking for.

We raced a 33 MKII and used a 0.5 oz. most of the timein heavier air 
we used the 1.5 oz.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax N.S.

On 2019-02-24 6:50 p.m., Brett Robertson via CnC-List wrote:

Anyone have a light weight symmetric spinnaker sail they would like to sell?  I 
have a 1.5oz, and want something for lighter winds.  Maybe .5oz or .75oz.  If 
you are familiar with any used sail websites or new sail companies that are 
reasonable please let me know.

I own a 1986 33 mk2.

Thank you,
Brett

brettrobertso...@gmail.com
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List Spinnaker sail wanted--light air

[Brett Robertson via CnC-List]

Anyone have a light weight symmetric spinnaker sail they would like to sell?  I 
have a 1.5oz, and want something for lighter winds.  Maybe .5oz or .75oz.  If 
you are familiar with any used sail websites or new sail companies that are 
reasonable please let me know.

I own a 1986 33 mk2.

Thank you,
Brett

brettrobertso...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Running Rigging

[Dave. via CnC-List]

On SLY, the prior owner was all about weight forward. They moved the batteries 
forward to under the V-birth port side and added a second fuel tank under the 
settee to starboard and would keep the aft tank empty.  When we acquired the 
boat we kept these changes and also lengthened the tiller a bit so the helmsman 
sits against the house. Except during tacks and jibes and sail trims the crew 
is forward of the helmsman but concentrated just forward of her. We get good 
boat speed out of this arrangement. In the day when we raced regularly we 
seldom raced with a full compliment of crew and were lucky to have 4. In our 
opinion this arrangement is most effective in light and medium air, while going 
to windward. Down wind, not so much. Just my thoughts.
Dave.
SLY
1975 C 33

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 8, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> We move crew fore and aft so the water exits the clean from the bottom of the 
> transom without curling.  Max water line without a stern curl is our 
> philosophy.  It's the responsibility of the helmsperson to glance down every 
> now and then to monitor stern curl.
> 
> For the same reason we may move crew across boat to maintain minimum 10-12 
> degrees of heel.  Max waterline.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 9:16 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Alan, I find that my 35 Mk2 is sensitive to crew forward  of the mast, thus 
>> the only time I like to have crew forward of the mast is for sail set ups 
>> and sail changes.  Thus in spinnaker take down I have one person in cabin 
>> and two hauling the chute down.  Normal racing crew is 6 or 7.  Also race on 
>> a J30 and find on her that crew forward is good and only have two aft of the 
>> cabin companionway (helm & mainsheet/tactician), Normal crew on her is the 
>> same, 6 or 7.  
>> Would also like to know what others think about fore-aft trim on the older 
>> C
>> 
>> Don Kern
>> Fireball C 35 MK2
>> Bristol, RI
>> 
>>> On 12/7/2018 7:00 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote:
>>> My arrangement is similar to yours, Don. The spinnaker guy has a shackle 
>>> with a large bale The sheet is attached to the guy and the guy is attached 
>>> to the spinnaker clew. I have a two or three inch diameter disk on the guy 
>>> just aft of the shackle which prevents the shackle from getting caught in 
>>> the jaws of the pole. My guy goes to a pad-eye just aft of the shrouds, and 
>>> the sheet to a block on the rail all the way aft. When dropping the chute, 
>>> we drop it under the jib, and down the forward hatch. That keeps the 
>>> companionway clear, and the spinnaker doesn't tangle with the cockpit crew.
>>>  
>>> Alan Bergen
>>> 35 Mk III Thirsty
>>> Rose City YC
>>> Portland, OR
>>> 
>>> Don Kern via CnC-List 
>>> 1:08 PM (2 hours ago)
>>> 
>>> Reply
>>> 
>>> to cnc-list, Don
>>> 
>>> I race quite a bit (more than I cruise) and I have not used the reaching 
>>> strut in years, though it carried below on the shelf above the v-berth.  We 
>>> use both a sheet and a guy attached to each clue.  The sheet is lead to a 
>>> turning blocks at the aft most opening on the toe rail, the guy is lead to 
>>> a snatch block on the toe rail about a foot aft of the lower-aft shroud, 
>>> then inboard aft to the cockpit.  In light air we will drop the guy and 
>>> just go with the sheet.  The shackle of the guy is normally hooked into the 
>>> ring of the sheet's shackle. For spinnaker take downs we grab the lazy guy, 
>>> easy since there is no tension on it, lead it over the life line down the 
>>> companionway into cabin. Then let the pole go forward and blow the sheet's 
>>> shackle (guy is hooked into the sheet) and haul the chute down behind the 
>>> main. Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led 
>>> into the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when 
>>> running dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker 
>>> with the lazy guy to inhibit death roles.
>>> Don Kern
>>> Fireball C MK2
>>> Bristol, RI
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Running Rigging

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

We move crew fore and aft so the water exits the clean from the bottom of
the transom without curling.  Max water line without a stern curl is our
philosophy.  It's the responsibility of the helmsperson to glance down
every now and then to monitor stern curl.

For the same reason we may move crew across boat to maintain minimum 10-12
degrees of heel.  Max waterline.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 9:16 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Alan, I find that my 35 Mk2 is sensitive to crew forward  of the mast,
> thus the only time I like to have crew forward of the mast is for sail set
> ups and sail changes.  Thus in spinnaker take down I have one person in
> cabin and two hauling the chute down.  Normal racing crew is 6 or 7.  Also
> race on a J30 and find on her that crew forward is good and only have two
> aft of the cabin companionway (helm & mainsheet/tactician), Normal crew on
> her is the same, 6 or 7.
>
> Would also like to know what others think about fore-aft trim on the older
> C
> Don Kern
> Fireball C 35 MK2
> Bristol, RI
>
>
> On 12/7/2018 7:00 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote:
>
> My arrangement is similar to yours, Don. The spinnaker guy has a shackle
> with a large bale The sheet is attached to the guy and the guy is attached
> to the spinnaker clew. I have a two or three inch diameter disk on the guy
> just aft of the shackle which prevents the shackle from getting caught in
> the jaws of the pole. My guy goes to a pad-eye just aft of the shrouds, and
> the sheet to a block on the rail all the way aft. When dropping the chute,
> we drop it under the jib, and down the forward hatch. That keeps the
> companionway clear, and the spinnaker doesn't tangle with the cockpit crew.
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> Don Kern via CnC-List 
> 1:08 PM (2 hours ago)
>
> Reply
> to cnc-list, Don
>
> I race quite a bit (more than I cruise) and I have not used the reaching
> strut in years, though it carried below on the shelf above the v-berth.  We
> use both a sheet and a guy attached to each clue.  The sheet is lead to a
> turning blocks at the aft most opening on the toe rail, the guy is lead to
> a snatch block on the toe rail about a foot aft of the lower-aft shroud,
> then inboard aft to the cockpit.  In light air we will drop the guy and
> just go with the sheet.  The shackle of the guy is normally hooked into the
> ring of the sheet's shackle. For spinnaker take downs we grab the lazy guy,
> easy since there is no tension on it, lead it over the life line down the
> companionway into cabin. Then let the pole go forward and blow the sheet's
> shackle (guy is hooked into the sheet) and haul the chute down behind the
> main. Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led
> into the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when
> running dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker
> with the lazy guy to inhibit death roles.
> Don Kern
> Fireball C MK2
> Bristol, RI
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Running Rigging

[Donald Kern via CnC-List]

Alan, I find that my 35 Mk2 is sensitive to crew forward  of the mast, 
thus the only time I like to have crew forward of the mast is for sail 
set ups and sail changes.  Thus in spinnaker take down I have one person 
in cabin and two hauling the chute down.  Normal racing crew is 6 or 7.  
Also race on a J30 and find on her that crew forward is good and only 
have two aft of the cabin companionway (helm & mainsheet/tactician), 
Normal crew on her is the same, 6 or 7.


Would also like to know what others think about fore-aft trim on the 
older C


Don Kern
Fireball C 35 MK2
Bristol, RI


On 12/7/2018 7:00 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote:
My arrangement is similar to yours, Don. The spinnaker guy has a 
shackle with a large bale The sheet is attached to the guy and the guy 
is attached to the spinnaker clew. I have a two or three inch diameter 
disk on the guy just aft of the shackle which prevents the shackle 
from getting caught in the jaws of the pole. My guy goes to a pad-eye 
just aft of the shrouds, and the sheet to a block on the rail all the 
way aft. When dropping the chute, we drop it under the jib, and down 
the forward hatch. That keeps the companionway clear, and the 
spinnaker doesn't tangle with the cockpit crew.


Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR


  Don Kern via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>


1:08 PM (2 hours ago)


Reply
to cnc-list, Don

I race quite a bit (more than I cruise) and I have not used the 
reaching strut in years, though it carried below on the shelf above 
the v-berth.  We use both a sheet and a guy attached to each clue. The 
sheet is lead to a turning blocks at the aft most opening on the toe 
rail, the guy is lead to a snatch block on the toe rail about a foot 
aft of the lower-aft shroud, then inboard aft to the cockpit.  In 
light air we will drop the guy and just go with the sheet.  The 
shackle of the guy is normally hooked into the ring of the sheet's 
shackle. For spinnaker take downs we grab the lazy guy, easy since 
there is no tension on it, lead it over the life line down the 
companionway into cabin. Then let the pole go forward and blow the 
sheet's shackle (guy is hooked into the sheet) and haul the chute down 
behind the main. Two other advantages with this arrangement is that 
with the guy led into the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole 
downhaul and when running dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we 
choke the spinnaker with the lazy guy to inhibit death roles.


Don Kern
Fireball C MK2
Bristol, RI

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Stus-List Spinnaker Running Rigging

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

My arrangement is similar to yours, Don. The spinnaker guy has a shackle
with a large bale The sheet is attached to the guy and the guy is attached
to the spinnaker clew. I have a two or three inch diameter disk on the guy
just aft of the shackle which prevents the shackle from getting caught in
the jaws of the pole. My guy goes to a pad-eye just aft of the shrouds, and
the sheet to a block on the rail all the way aft. When dropping the chute,
we drop it under the jib, and down the forward hatch. That keeps the
companionway clear, and the spinnaker doesn't tangle with the cockpit crew.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR
Don Kern via CnC-List 
1:08 PM (2 hours ago)
Reply
to cnc-list, Don

I race quite a bit (more than I cruise) and I have not used the reaching
strut in years, though it carried below on the shelf above the v-berth.  We
use both a sheet and a guy attached to each clue.  The sheet is lead to a
turning blocks at the aft most opening on the toe rail, the guy is lead to
a snatch block on the toe rail about a foot aft of the lower-aft shroud,
then inboard aft to the cockpit.  In light air we will drop the guy and
just go with the sheet.  The shackle of the guy is normally hooked into the
ring of the sheet's shackle. For spinnaker take downs we grab the lazy guy,
easy since there is no tension on it, lead it over the life line down the
companionway into cabin. Then let the pole go forward and blow the sheet's
shackle (guy is hooked into the sheet) and haul the chute down behind the
main. Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led
into the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when
running dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker
with the lazy guy to inhibit death roles.
Don Kern
Fireball C MK2
Bristol, RI
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Halyard Parking Bracket

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

APS sells them.
Joel

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:13 PM John McKay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I like this. A couple of times this past summer, the pit man was not fast
> enough getting the halyard secure and the chute dropped a few feet. Much
> more difficult to pull the chute up when it is full.
>
> John on Enterprise
> C 33 MK II
> Komoka Ontario
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 8:53:45 PM EST, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> Here's pics of Touche' spinnaker halyard parking bracket.
>
> Halyard parked:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1l4zjGelVZFb6ovcoiTm1w8widYvuqKYz
>
> Halyard free to drop chute:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12uMQiom3tJARYnkWPPhSPihdjNMxEYAG
>
> I think you can see how it works.  Mast person hoists chute with an
> outboard pulling motion.  Halyard "parks" in the cam cleat.  Once the chute
> is up, the mast person can move to other tasks.  The halyard remains
> "parked".  Later, the pit person can then take the slack out of the halyard
> and give it a pull.  The halyard pops out of the cam cleat into the "free"
> position.  It is then ready to drop the chute.  This assumes the boat has a
> cabin top rope clutch for the halyard.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Halyard Parking Bracket

[John McKay via CnC-List]

 I like this. A couple of times this past summer, the pit man was not fast 
enough getting the halyard secure and the chute dropped a few feet. Much more 
difficult to pull the chute up when it is full.
John on EnterpriseC 33 MK IIKomoka Ontario

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 8:53:45 PM EST, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Here's pics of Touche' spinnaker halyard parking bracket.
Halyard parked:  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1l4zjGelVZFb6ovcoiTm1w8widYvuqKYz
Halyard free to drop chute:  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12uMQiom3tJARYnkWPPhSPihdjNMxEYAG
I think you can see how it works.  Mast person hoists chute with an outboard 
pulling motion.  Halyard "parks" in the cam cleat.  Once the chute is up, the 
mast person can move to other tasks.  The halyard remains "parked".  Later, the 
pit person can then take the slack out of the halyard and give it a pull.  The 
halyard pops out of the cam cleat into the "free" position.  It is then ready 
to drop the chute.  This assumes the boat has a cabin top rope clutch for the 
halyard.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, 
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Stus-List Spinnaker Halyard Parking Bracket

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Here's pics of Touche' spinnaker halyard parking bracket.

Halyard parked:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1l4zjGelVZFb6ovcoiTm1w8widYvuqKYz

Halyard free to drop chute:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12uMQiom3tJARYnkWPPhSPihdjNMxEYAG

I think you can see how it works.  Mast person hoists chute with an
outboard pulling motion.  Halyard "parks" in the cam cleat.  Once the chute
is up, the mast person can move to other tasks.  The halyard remains
"parked".  Later, the pit person can then take the slack out of the halyard
and give it a pull.  The halyard pops out of the cam cleat into the "free"
position.  It is then ready to drop the chute.  This assumes the boat has a
cabin top rope clutch for the halyard.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Stus-List Spinnaker for C 24

[Doug Ellmore via CnC-List]

Looking for a good used symmetrical or asymmetrical spinnaker for my C 24
for the St. Mary's Governors Cup race.  I am registered CHESSS.  If we
don't get enough to split the group into spin and non-spin, I'd like to
have a larger downwind sail.

-- 
Doug Ellmore, Sr.
s/v Red Sky
d...@ellmore.net
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Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

I appreciate your thoughts, Josh. But truly, I did not need to go and look at 
the thing in person. I can see from their web site that it is overly 
complicated, what with all those holes, flaps and strings. I can just imagine 
trying to untangle that mess if a situation goes pear-shaped with wraps and 
twists, etc. Without resorting to the knife it would be a bit of a challenge!

I talked to the best sail designers in the world, making a real effort to get 
them to say something positive about the sail. These included Kenny Read at 
North and his top designer, Butch Ulmer, Kerry Klinger, Dave Ulman, and Phil 
Leitch. I even talked to Scott Ferguson, who designed the wing for the Oracle 
cats. They were unanimous in the opinion I shared with you. There is no 
aerodynamic merit to Parasail's claims. Certainly, if the claims had merit, the 
company owners would be getting rich from royalties because North would have 
optioned the patent.

By the way, there is nothing to stop one flying a symmetric kite the same way 
as an asymmetric. We used to do it all the time before asymmetrics were 
invented. Perhaps fly it a little higher but always make sure it's got a strap 
to hold the tack close to the head stay so the it doesn't end up way to leeward 
when you're reaching. If you are reaching, have the tack a little closer to the 
deck than you'd think. That will move the draft forward, opening up the leech, 
and creating a better foil shape, just as a Cunningham does on your main.

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Apr 29, 2017, at 18:26, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> At the risk of stating the obvious, if they are that good everyone would have 
> one.  Sounds like a gimmick to me.
>  
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 4:48 PM
> To: C List
> Cc: Josh Muckley
> Subject: Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig
>  
> Andrew, with all due respect your assessment may not be uninformed but it 
> does sound un-expierienced.  I understand your position... I mean how hard 
> could it be to sail a spinnaker and if it's that hard then why do I want it.  
> Though, it is an unconventional sail which unless it was properly introduced 
> to the user might have some quirks which you would need to know about.   That 
> being said the company would have provided you with the training for tree and 
> even provided you a free night stay on their boat.  This is normally what 
> they provide to purchasers.  This ensures that a buyer's expirience and 
> opinion are as fair and good as possible.
>  
> It does seem like a missed opportunity on their part to earn a glowing review 
> article from a seasoned (and hard to win over) sailor.  It probably wouldn't 
> have been a prohibitive cost to pay for your airplane ticket and in the end 
> would have paid for itself.
>  
> Still leaves me to wonder..
>  
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>  
>  
>  
> On Apr 29, 2017 2:32 PM, "Andrew Burton via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> I'd venture to guess that a regular kite would have worked equally well or 
> better for your friend. I did a fair bit of research on them, inspected (but 
> never flew) them, and talked to a lot of experts about the company's claims 
> about their product. When I was working on an article on downwind sails for 
> the magazine I asked for one to test but they insisted I fly to them in Tampa 
> (at my own expense) so they could "train" me on their use. If that's 
> necessary for someone of my experience then I doubt someone of little 
> experience is going to have more success than with a regular kite. My 
> assessment of the Parasail is not exactly uninformed!
>  
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 West Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
>  
> +401 965 5260
>  
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2017, at 14:17, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting comment, Andy — I’ve got a friend who’s got one up on Lake 
>> Superior, and it’s worked well for him.
>>  
>> — Fred
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>  
>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Snake Oil! Seriously. Stay away from it. Their claims are bunk.
>>> Andy
>>> C 40
>>> Peregrine
>>> 
>>> Andrew Burton
>>> 61 W Narragansett
>>> Newport, RI
>>&g

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Andrew, with all due respect your assessment may not be uninformed but it
does sound un-expierienced.  I understand your position... I mean how hard
could it be to sail a spinnaker and if it's that hard then why do I want
it.  Though, it is an unconventional sail which unless it was properly
introduced to the user might have some quirks which you would need to know
about.   That being said the company would have provided you with the
training for tree and even provided you a free night stay on their boat.
This is normally what they provide to purchasers.  This ensures that a
buyer's expirience and opinion are as fair and good as possible.

It does seem like a missed opportunity on their part to earn a glowing
review article from a seasoned (and hard to win over) sailor.  It probably
wouldn't have been a prohibitive cost to pay for your airplane ticket and
in the end would have paid for itself.

Still leaves me to wonder..

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Apr 29, 2017 2:32 PM, "Andrew Burton via CnC-List" 
wrote:

I'd venture to guess that a regular kite would have worked equally well or
better for your friend. I did a fair bit of research on them, inspected
(but never flew) them, and talked to a lot of experts about the company's
claims about their product. When I was working on an article on downwind
sails for the magazine I asked for one to test but they insisted I fly to
them in Tampa (at my own expense) so they could "train" me on their use. If
that's necessary for someone of my experience then I doubt someone of
little experience is going to have more success than with a regular kite.
My assessment of the Parasail is not exactly uninformed!

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 West Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840

+401 965 5260


On Apr 29, 2017, at 14:17, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Interesting comment, Andy — I’ve got a friend who’s got one up on Lake
Superior, and it’s worked well for him.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Snake Oil! Seriously. Stay away from it. Their claims are bunk.
Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Apr 28, 2017, at 18:36, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
wrote:

Anybody have any thoughts on the parasailor?

http://www.parasailor.com/us/products/parasailor.html

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

___


This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Back in the ‘70s someone was making “puffy” chutes – they looked like Jerry 
Seinfeld’s shirt.  They didn’t last long.

From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 2:31 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

I'd venture to guess that a regular kite would have worked equally well or 
better for your friend. I did a fair bit of research on them, inspected (but 
never flew) them, and talked to a lot of experts about the company's claims 
about their product. When I was working on an article on downwind sails for the 
magazine I asked for one to test but they insisted I fly to them in Tampa (at 
my own expense) so they could "train" me on their use. If that's necessary for 
someone of my experience then I doubt someone of little experience is going to 
have more success than with a regular kite. My assessment of the Parasail is 
not exactly uninformed!

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton 
61 West Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI 
USA 02840

+401 965 5260


On Apr 29, 2017, at 14:17, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


  Interesting comment, Andy — I’ve got a friend who’s got one up on Lake 
Superior, and it’s worked well for him. 

  — Fred


  Fred Street -- Minneapolis
  S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Snake Oil! Seriously. Stay away from it. Their claims are bunk.
Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton 
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
+401 965-5260

On Apr 28, 2017, at 18:36, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


  Anybody have any thoughts on the parasailor?

  http://www.parasailor.com/us/products/parasailor.html 

  Josh Muckley
  S/V Sea Hawk
  1989 C 37+
  Solomons, MD
  ___

  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

I'd venture to guess that a regular kite would have worked equally well or 
better for your friend. I did a fair bit of research on them, inspected (but 
never flew) them, and talked to a lot of experts about the company's claims 
about their product. When I was working on an article on downwind sails for the 
magazine I asked for one to test but they insisted I fly to them in Tampa (at 
my own expense) so they could "train" me on their use. If that's necessary for 
someone of my experience then I doubt someone of little experience is going to 
have more success than with a regular kite. My assessment of the Parasail is 
not exactly uninformed!

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 West Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI 
USA 02840

+401 965 5260


> On Apr 29, 2017, at 14:17, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Interesting comment, Andy — I’ve got a friend who’s got one up on Lake 
> Superior, and it’s worked well for him.
> 
> — Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Snake Oil! Seriously. Stay away from it. Their claims are bunk.
>> Andy
>> C 40
>> Peregrine
>> 
>> Andrew Burton
>> 61 W Narragansett
>> Newport, RI 
>> USA02840
>> 
>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>> +401 965-5260
>> 
>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 18:36, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Anybody have any thoughts on the parasailor?
>>> 
>>> http://www.parasailor.com/us/products/parasailor.html
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Interesting comment, Andy — I’ve got a friend who’s got one up on Lake 
Superior, and it’s worked well for him.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Snake Oil! Seriously. Stay away from it. Their claims are bunk.
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
> 
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Apr 28, 2017, at 18:36, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  > wrote:
> 
>> Anybody have any thoughts on the parasailor?
>> 
>> http://www.parasailor.com/us/products/parasailor.html 
>> 
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Kevin, I have both symmetrical and and a new asym on Windstar - a 1985 33-2
that I bought in '13.   Like you I use mine for recreation, in light air,
not ocean racing with a crew, and I sail out of Whitby so similar
conditions.


For the downhhaul, there is a padeye mid-foredeck but it can also be
clipped to the rail.  (I use a snatch block)I really don't think it's
that critical as long as the lead and load makes sense. (the line runs to a
lower bridle on the pole or to another attachment point, also impacting the
lead, so you want to consider the whole system.   I don't think I'd bore
any holes until you get a rig more or less working, you are not optimizing
a racing machine for quick gybing/deployment.  (yet)

The downhaul runs aft along the deck to a cam cleat on the side of the
cabin top,   The pole attaches to the mast with a ring on a sliding track.
  I would think the ability to adjust the pole height is more critical with
a symmetrical, so there is more complexity in rigging.  An asym with its
whisker pole might get by with a ring at a fixed height.  Others will know
more about this than I.

You can adjust the downhaul and topping lift from the cockpit, but the pole
base is tweaked at the mast.

IF you "launch"/douse the spin from a sock, you will need to thing about
the lines and process involved, and rig accordingly.

If you are down this way, I'd be happy to show you how the topping lift,
downhaul, etc were rigged from the factory, maybe you can scale off some
dimensions.   I can post photos to my blog at some point if you'd like.

I have not yet used the asym, but have sailed (not raced) with the
symmetrical, always shorthanded, and sometimes singlehanded, which is
probably not the wisest thing, but it does have its entertaining moments.
These are powerful sails.  As the wind builds and you will gain a new
appreciation for apparent vs true wind when running... (and think about the
otherworldliness of an IMOCA racer or similar that runs at 20+ knots in say
40kts of true wind). I have yet to fly the spin with both sheets and guys,
though I have both.

I have not read all the replies to you post,  but used symmetrical
spinnakers and poles are commonly found on Kijiji for a fraction of the
cost of new.Asymmetricals, not.   This may have some bearing on your
decision.

Fun stuff to play with.

Dave



-- Forwarded message --
From: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:36:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig



On Apr 28, 2017 7:41 AM, "Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Hi All,
> This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like
> to rig it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but
> I like the idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to
> install a block for the pole lift and I’m wondering where to install it. In
> the C manual it shows the pole lift at 22’-0” above the ‘black line’ at
> base of mast. But I don’t have a black line on my mast, not at the base
> (which I assume is around the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast.
> Does anyone know where I would locate these black lines? or the height of
> the topping lift from some other reference point? My second question is
> where to mount the pole downhaul (foreguy) - a? Thanks for this.
>
> By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here’s
> to all the other C owners out there who’s arms are a sore as mine this
> time of year as we get these boats ready for launch.
>
>
> Kevin Deluzio
> S/V Solevento
> C #641
> Kingston, ON
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Really?  wow!  I'd love to hear more about your experience.

Josh

On Apr 28, 2017 9:39 PM, "Andrew Burton via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Snake Oil! Seriously. Stay away from it. Their claims are bunk.
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
>
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI
> USA02840
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
> On Apr 28, 2017, at 18:36, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Anybody have any thoughts on the parasailor?
>
> http://www.parasailor.com/us/products/parasailor.html
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Apr 28, 2017 7:41 AM, "Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would
>> like to rig it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with
>> one, but I like the idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I
>> have to install a block for the pole lift and I’m wondering where to
>> install it. In the C manual it shows the pole lift at 22’-0” above the
>> ‘black line’ at base of mast. But I don’t have a black line on my mast, not
>> at the base (which I assume is around the height of boom?) nor at the top
>> of my mast. Does anyone know where I would locate these black lines? or the
>> height of the topping lift from some other reference point? My second
>> question is where to mount the pole downhaul (foreguy) - a? Thanks for this.
>>
>> By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here’s
>> to all the other C owners out there who’s arms are a sore as mine this
>> time of year as we get these boats ready for launch.
>>
>>
>> Kevin Deluzio
>> S/V Solevento
>> C #641
>> Kingston, ON
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Snake Oil! Seriously. Stay away from it. Their claims are bunk.
Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 18:36, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Anybody have any thoughts on the parasailor?
> 
> http://www.parasailor.com/us/products/parasailor.html
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2017 7:41 AM, "Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List" 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like 
>> to rig it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but 
>> I like the idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to 
>> install a block for the pole lift and I’m wondering where to install it. In 
>> the C manual it shows the pole lift at 22’-0” above the ‘black line’ at 
>> base of mast. But I don’t have a black line on my mast, not at the base 
>> (which I assume is around the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast. 
>> Does anyone know where I would locate these black lines? or the height of 
>> the topping lift from some other reference point? My second question is 
>> where to mount the pole downhaul (foreguy) - a? Thanks for this.
>> 
>> By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here’s to 
>> all the other C owners out there who’s arms are a sore as mine this time 
>> of year as we get these boats ready for launch.
>> 
>> 
>> Kevin Deluzio
>> S/V Solevento
>> C #641
>> Kingston, ON
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Others have expressed their appreciation for an asymmetric spinnacker which
I also echo.  All of their points are valid, however you may find that the
effort involved with setting the A-sym just isn't worth the mild
improvement in speed/performance over an oversized headsail and whisker
pole.  Many of the parts required for a whisker pole are the same as that
for a spinnaker pole and some of the functions of a spinnaker pole can be
accomplished with a whisker pole.  The downside to an A-sym is that in
order to jibe you have to either pull the clew in between the headstay and
the spinnaker luff or on the outside of the spinnaker luff.  Either way
this maneuver can be tricky and is a good way to earn yourself a spinnaker
wrap on the headstay.  I've also found that typically the deepest I can
steadily fly my a-sym is 150°.  If I pole out my 145 headsail I can
accomplish nearly the same performance at the same point of sail.  True
downwind sailing is best achieved with a true symmetrical spinnaker, but
the tough question is, "Just because you can point deeper downwind, are you
making a faster VMG or CS?"  Do you have enough crew and hands to
successfully handle a symmetrical spinnaker, or any spinnaker for that
matter?

Having a pole of an type is nice if you decide to lift things on/off the
foredeck such as a dingy.  Either a whisker pole or spinnaker pole will
require a track and ring on the mast to hold one end of the pole, a rope to
lift/hold the pole horizontal (topping lift), a rope to prevent the sail
from flying up (a downhaul).

I installed a Furlex Furler years ago and simply cannot rave loudly enough
about the quality and engineering which I experienced.  Consider the mast
exit sheave for your topping lift.

http://www.seldenmast.com/index.php?id=4691
Page 25, sheave boxes

Since these sheave boxes will cause 1 or 2 more lines to run inside of the
mast you'll need mast exits.  Again, Selden has innovative solutions called
slot fittings also found on page 25.

Any type of spinnaker should be hauled higher and hopefully forward of the
headsail.   Assuming that you already have a second sheave at the top of
the mast, a typical furler setup will prevent the headsail from reaching
the sheave boxes.  Selden makes a crain for holding the spin halyard block
forward of the headsail halyard which you might also find useful to prevent
jams and snags on the swivel and headstay.

Attaching the topping lift to the pole:  If a spin-pole then there is a
bridle which positions the topping life in the middle of the pole.  This
bridle is mirrored on the bottom for the downhaul.  If it's a whisker pole
then the topping lift is attached as near to the end of the largest section
with a strap and mirrored on the bottom for the downhaul.  In either case
the topping lift sheave box should be installed high enough that you don't
create too sharp of an angle to the pole.  Basically as high as possible
but avoid going lower than that which would create a 45° angle or less.
You want to pull up more than aft.  With a simple deck fitting or deck
bridle you can even use the topping lift to fly tri-sails in stormy
weather.  With that in mind you might consider deck fitting placement
before deciding on a final height for your topping lift sheave box.

This deck fitting can be where you attach the downhaul.  In my experience
you'll simply have a turning block attached to the deck fitting and a
turning block on the rail.  With the pole all the way forward to the
headstay your downhaul will run nearly vertical from its own attachment on
the poll (bridle or end fitting, spinnaker or whisker pole respectively),
down to the turning block, over to the rail, back to some cleat near the
cockpit.  Placement of the rail turning block is dependent on the clear
passage to the final destination, which means that you could place the
second turning block inboard of the rail or even on the cabin top if
desired.  Typically only hand tight is needed so winches and fancy jammers
are unnecessary.  You could of course run the downhaul, similar to a
furling line, on stantion fairleads.

As for black lines, they are used to show to race committee and other
racers that your sails don't extend past the length and height for which
the boat was handycapped - luff and foot length. Top of the mast and aft
end of the boom.  I've never noticed a black tape at the bottom of the
mast.  It seems redundant since the lowest point which you can place the
mainsail tack is typically fixed at the boom attachment.  Likewise for the
boom - no black tape towards the mast, just the aft end.  That being said,
some boats have been designed with a sliding boom track which allows
raising and lowering the boom on the mast.  I suppose in this case you
would need a lower tape on the mast.  That lower tape would be at the
lowest point where the tack could ever be.  In your case I would measure 22
feet above the boom and then consider all of my previously stated points on
sheave 

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Anybody have any thoughts on the parasailor?

http://www.parasailor.com/us/products/parasailor.html

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Apr 28, 2017 7:41 AM, "Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Hi All,
> This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like
> to rig it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but
> I like the idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to
> install a block for the pole lift and I’m wondering where to install it. In
> the C manual it shows the pole lift at 22’-0” above the ‘black line’ at
> base of mast. But I don’t have a black line on my mast, not at the base
> (which I assume is around the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast.
> Does anyone know where I would locate these black lines? or the height of
> the topping lift from some other reference point? My second question is
> where to mount the pole downhaul (foreguy) - a? Thanks for this.
>
> By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here’s
> to all the other C owners out there who’s arms are a sore as mine this
> time of year as we get these boats ready for launch.
>
>
> Kevin Deluzio
> S/V Solevento
> C #641
> Kingston, ON
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

My thru-the-mast fitting is located about 3 feet above the spreaders. The 
downhaul is mid deck (about 2 feet forward of the cabin) on a folding pad-eye. 
I have a block there and the line runs back along the cabin (one fairlead at 
the front/side of the dorade box and another at the rear) to a rope clutch next 
to the companionway. The uphaul exits the side of the mast to a block at the 
mast base and then a turning block (along with the main halyard) back to the 
three clutches.

 

However, if you are not planning on racing, I would rig a pole ring on the 
mast, get a pole, and get an asymmetrical chute. That way, you can easily run 
the chute from a block at the bow when reaching and use the pole to put the 
tack of the spinnaker out to weather when running. Best of both worlds and a 
lot less fuss than a sheet/guy arrangement and uphaul/downhaul for the pole.

 

Gary  30-1 #593

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
Brown via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:28 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca>
Subject: Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

 

I will be prepping my mast next week and could take measurements. I doubt you 
would
want to mount a normal block on the front of the mast if you are carrying an 
overlapping
headsail. It will rub and maybe catch on every tack. The 30-1 factory spinnaker 
uphaul
fitting was a feedthrough with less to catch.

While far from optimum if you are looking to try some light wind downwind 
cruising you
could try it with a simple fixed setup. I have seen some boats use a fixed ring 
to mount
the spinnaker pole to the mast and a similar ring further up with a line looped 
through it
for the uphaul. It doesn't adjust much under load, but that may be fine for 
you. It is also
cheap and won't snag your headsail. You will need a downhaul / foreguy. The can 
work
from a block on the toerail, maybe a forward eye if you have one mounted. I use 
a block
on the base of the mast, fix the line on the starboard side of the mast, up to 
a block on
the spinnaker bridle, then down to a block on the port side of the mast and 
then to the
cockpit. Somewhat strange but it allows sheeting the pole forward and back 
without
having to adjust the downhaul.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 

Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:41:02 -0400 
From: Kevin Deluzio <kevin.delu...@gmail.com <mailto:kevin.delu...@gmail.com> > 

Hi All, 
This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like to rig 
it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but I like the 
idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to install a block 
for the pole lift and I?m wondering where to install it. In the C manual it 
shows the pole lift at 22?-0? above the ?black line? at base of mast. But I 
don?t have a black line on my mast, not at the base (which I assume is around 
the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast. Does anyone know where I would 
locate these black lines? or the height of the topping lift from some other 
reference point? My second question is where to mount the pole downhaul 
(foreguy) - a? Thanks for this. 

By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here?s to 
all the other C owners out there who?s arms are a sore as mine this time of 
year as we get these boats ready for launch. 


Kevin Deluzio 
S/V Solevento 
C #641 
Kingston, ON 

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Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Kevin,

First, the elevation of the exit/block for the pole lift is not critical.
 +/- 2-4 feet should be OK.

Second, many of the older models had a "donut" on the forward side of the
mast for a pole lift exit.  Simply a hole with a round metal washer-like
fitting.

My 35-1 has one of the donuts but I didn't want the friction of the line
turning over a fixed point.  I installed an exit block from Rig Rite.
Scroll down the link below to the NGA-25 block.

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Exit_blocks.php#Single Exit Blocks

Installation is a bit onerous but the result is worthwhile.  If you choose
to install an exit block, you need to verify whether your mast has an
internal conduit for wiring.  It would not be good to cut through your
wiring.

As far as the downhaul, the ideal attachment point is halfway between the
bow stem and mast.  I installed a Wichard folding padeye with an aluminum
backing plate on the foredeck.

I use a double downhaul system which may be too complex for your needs.
That is, the downhaul sheets run down either side of the boat to camcleats
on either side of the cabin.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
> This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like
> to rig it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but
> I like the idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to
> install a block for the pole lift and I’m wondering where to install it. In
> the C manual it shows the pole lift at 22’-0” above the ‘black line’ at
> base of mast. But I don’t have a black line on my mast, not at the base
> (which I assume is around the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast.
> Does anyone know where I would locate these black lines? or the height of
> the topping lift from some other reference point? My second question is
> where to mount the pole downhaul (foreguy) - a? Thanks for this.
>
> By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here’s
> to all the other C owners out there who’s arms are a sore as mine this
> time of year as we get these boats ready for launch.
>
>
> Kevin Deluzio
> S/V Solevento
> C #641
> Kingston, ON
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I will be prepping my mast next week and could take measurements. I doubt you 
would
want to mount a normal block on the front of the mast if you are carrying an 
overlapping
headsail. It will rub and maybe catch on every tack. The 30-1 factory spinnaker 
uphaul
fitting was a feedthrough with less to catch.

While far from optimum if you are looking to try some light wind downwind 
cruising you
could try it with a simple fixed setup. I have seen some boats use a fixed ring 
to mount
the spinnaker pole to the mast and a similar ring further up with a line looped 
through it
for the uphaul. It doesn't adjust much under load, but that may be fine for 
you. It is also
cheap and won't snag your headsail. You will need a downhaul / foreguy. The can 
work
from a block on the toerail, maybe a forward eye if you have one mounted. I use 
a block
on the base of the mast, fix the line on the starboard side of the mast, up to 
a block on
the spinnaker bridle, then down to a block on the port side of the mast and 
then to the
cockpit. Somewhat strange but it allows sheeting the pole forward and back 
without
having to adjust the downhaul.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 

Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:41:02 -0400 
From: Kevin Deluzio  

Hi All,  
     This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like to rig 
it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but I like the 
idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to install a block 
for the pole lift and I?m wondering where to install it. In the C manual it 
shows the pole lift at 22?-0? above the ?black line? at base of mast. But I 
don?t have a black line on my mast, not at the base (which I assume is around 
the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast. Does anyone know where I would 
locate these black lines? or the height of the topping lift from some other 
reference point? My second question is where to mount the pole downhaul 
(foreguy) - a? Thanks for this.  
 
By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here?s to 
all the other C owners out there who?s arms are a sore as mine this time of 
year as we get these boats ready for launch. 
 
 
Kevin Deluzio 
S/V Solevento 
C #641 
Kingston, ON 
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Re: Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Jerome Tauber via CnC-List]

I'm sure you are going to hear this many times but if you don't race why not go 
with an asymmetric spinnaker.  No pole, no down haul and no lift.  Much easier 
to fly and better for reaching in light wind.  Jerry J  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:41 AM, Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
>This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like to rig 
> it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but I like 
> the idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to install a 
> block for the pole lift and I’m wondering where to install it. In the C 
> manual it shows the pole lift at 22’-0” above the ‘black line’ at base of 
> mast. But I don’t have a black line on my mast, not at the base (which I 
> assume is around the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast. Does anyone 
> know where I would locate these black lines? or the height of the topping 
> lift from some other reference point? My second question is where to mount 
> the pole downhaul (foreguy) - a? Thanks for this. 
> 
> By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here’s to 
> all the other C owners out there who’s arms are a sore as mine this time of 
> year as we get these boats ready for launch.
> 
> 
> Kevin Deluzio
> S/V Solevento
> C #641
> Kingston, ON
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List spinnaker rig

[Kevin Deluzio via CnC-List]

Hi All, 
This is my second season with my new to me 1980 30-1. I would like to 
rig it for a spinnaker this year. Not interested in racing with one, but I like 
the idea of using it for light winds downwind sailing. So I have to install a 
block for the pole lift and I’m wondering where to install it. In the C 
manual it shows the pole lift at 22’-0” above the ‘black line’ at base of mast. 
But I don’t have a black line on my mast, not at the base (which I assume is 
around the height of boom?) nor at the top of my mast. Does anyone know where I 
would locate these black lines? or the height of the topping lift from some 
other reference point? My second question is where to mount the pole downhaul 
(foreguy) - a? Thanks for this. 

By the way, love the list, such a great source of information. And here’s to 
all the other C owners out there who’s arms are a sore as mine this time of 
year as we get these boats ready for launch.


Kevin Deluzio
S/V Solevento
C #641
Kingston, ON
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

My check stays came with the boat and I still use them--the XL mast from 
Southern Spars is relatively 'bendy', not a tree trunk like the 35, etc. 
Although they are a little of a PITA, I think they do hold the mast to windward 
(although their 'pull' is mostly to the port and starboard quarter).


While racing, the windward stay is tightened by the headsail trimmer while the 
leeward is released by the other headsail trimmer.


Since they do not pull against a baby stay any long, they don't 'bend' the mast 
so much as 'stiffen' it.


Charlie Nelson
'95 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: jacob fuerst via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: jacob fuerst <jjfue...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2016 9:05 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling



Did you add check stays? I have the baby stay but no check stays.


Jacob Fuerst
'78 C 36
303-520-4669



On Dec 4, 2016 8:04 PM, "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

Not any longer--ditched that many years ago on the advice on my sailmaker who 
saw little reason for it on a masthead rig without swept back spreaders and 
with check stays except for reducing pumping in chop.


Charlie


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: jacob fuerst via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: jacob fuerst <jjfue...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling



Do you have a baby stay?


Jacob Fuerst
'78 C 36
303-520-4669



On Dec 4, 2016 6:21 PM, "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends.


We always use lazy sheets and guys.


As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use. 


However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.


I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.


OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in the 
incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a need for 
more practice. 


My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in so 
that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water Phantom 
and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always use the same 
method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb 




cenel...@aol.com


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___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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___

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___

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[jacob fuerst via CnC-List]

Did you add check stays? I have the baby stay but no check stays.

Jacob Fuerst
'78 C 36
303-520-4669

On Dec 4, 2016 8:04 PM, "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Not any longer--ditched that many years ago on the advice on my sailmaker
> who saw little reason for it on a masthead rig without swept back spreaders
> and with check stays except for reducing pumping in chop.
>
> Charlie
>
> cenel...@aol.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: jacob fuerst via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc: jacob fuerst <jjfue...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 9:34 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling
>
> Do you have a baby stay?
>
> Jacob Fuerst
> '78 C 36
> 303-520-4669 <(303)%20520-4669>
>
> On Dec 4, 2016 6:21 PM, "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our
>> kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes
>> or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with
>> snap-in fitting on both ends.
>>
>> We always use lazy sheets and guys.
>>
>> As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or
>> should use.
>>
>> However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our
>> jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I
>> share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the
>> jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man
>> struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time
>> and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it
>> also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and
>> shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made.
>>
>> I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes
>> above about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what
>> seems like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when
>> we raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole
>> downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of
>> them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened
>> out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us.
>>
>> OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole
>> in the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly
>> a need for more practice.
>>
>> My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in
>> so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water
>> Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always
>> use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.
>>
>> Charlie Nelson
>> Water Phantom
>> C 36 XL/kcb
>>
>>
>> cenel...@aol.com
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Loved it.  This guy makes me look like a saint. I showed it to my whole
crew errr I mean family :-)

-Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[James Bibb via CnC-List]

Eric…James Bibb here…picked up 34/36 with a dip pole and am contemplating 
assymetrical conversion.  I had a Cal 29 with a bowsprit, since-line furler set 
up and concur.  

Mind sharing more about your set-up?  I rarely have 7 people handy enough.  


NørthWind Architects, LLC
James Bibb
Principal 
126 Seward Street
Juneau, AK  99801
 
p.907.586.6150 ext 205
f.907.586.6181
c.907.321.4265
www.northwindarch.com
www.facebook.com/northwindarchitects
 

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 3:52 PM, Eric Baumes via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I switched to an asymmetrical with a retrofit bow sprit. I'll never gybe a 
> symmetrical chute again.
> 
> After the first gybe with the new setup, my crew confessed that used to dread 
> when the boat turned downwind. 
> 
> For everything to work well on a dip gybe you need 7. Now I can fly the chute 
> and gybe with as few as 2 crew.
> 
> In light wind we sail the angle we probably should have sailed with the 
> symmetrical. In heavy air we can sail pretty deep. 
> 
> Eric
> 
> C 34/36
> 
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Persuasion37 via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> And that is why I don't race.  Great video.
> 
> Mike
> PERSUASION
> C 37 K/CB
> Long Sault
> 
> On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
>> That video is an all time classic in my book. I can not believe it doesn't 
>> have a gazillion views.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016, 6:58 PM John McKay via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>> <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> Damn Kevin I howled
>> 
>> How often did I hear these conversation the last racing season!
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 5:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Not sure why the ass end of the boat has so much difficulty following 
>> instructions: https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A <https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM Nauset Beach via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is having 
>> the foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the chain 
>> plates prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined 
>> through practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down, and 
>> then tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and there 
>> is no load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to drop 
>> the new guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast 
>> without any real load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims 
>> back the new guy after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and 
>> then the spin trimmer eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is brought 
>> in. 
>>  
>> And of course, the helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until that 
>> call as well…
>>  
>> All it takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;) 
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
>> <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
>> To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
>> Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com <mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling
>>  
>> Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the 
>> chute is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy to 
>> move the chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the center 
>> seam has prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then the 
>> foredeck person has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.
>> A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the boat 
>> keeping the Windex CENTERED between the tabs and then have the foredeck gybe 
>> the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on the center 
>> seam of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the forestay.
>> When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made on 
>> the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go 
>> smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Wa

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Eric Baumes via CnC-List]

I switched to an asymmetrical with a retrofit bow sprit. I'll never gybe a
symmetrical chute again.

After the first gybe with the new setup, my crew confessed that used to
dread when the boat turned downwind.

For everything to work well on a dip gybe you need 7. Now I can fly the
chute and gybe with as few as 2 crew.

In light wind we sail the angle we probably should have sailed with the
symmetrical. In heavy air we can sail pretty deep.

Eric

C 34/36

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Persuasion37 via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> And that is why I don't race.  Great video.
>
> Mike
> PERSUASION
> C 37 K/CB
> Long Sault
>
> On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> That video is an all time classic in my book. I can not believe it doesn't
> have a gazillion views.
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016, 6:58 PM John McKay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Damn Kevin I howled
>>
>> How often did I hear these conversation the last racing season!
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 5:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Not sure why the ass end of the boat has so much difficulty following
>> instructions: https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM Nauset Beach via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is
>> having the foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the
>> chain plates prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined
>> through practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down,
>> and then tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and
>> there is no load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to
>> drop the new guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast
>> without any real load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims
>> back the new guy after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and
>> then the spin trimmer eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is
>> brought in.
>>
>> And of course, the helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until
>> that call as well…
>>
>> All it takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;)
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis
>> C. via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
>> *To:* CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> *Cc:* Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling
>>
>> Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the
>> chute is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy
>> to move the chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the
>> center seam has prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then
>> the foredeck person has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.
>> A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the
>> boat keeping the Windex *CENTERED *between the tabs and then have the
>> foredeck gybe the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on
>> the center seam of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the
>> forestay.
>> When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made
>> on the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go
>> smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch
>> the center seam!
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys!
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully
>> concur. Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted
>> monkey at the blunt end [image: ��]
>> Cheers,
>> Paul.
>>
>> 1974 27' MkII
>> Sidney, BC.
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Persuasion37 via CnC-List]

And that is why I don't race.  Great video.

Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On Dec 6, 2016, at 11:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> That video is an all time classic in my book. I can not believe it doesn't 
> have a gazillion views.
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016, 6:58 PM John McKay via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
>> wrote:
>> Damn Kevin I howled
>> 
>> How often did I hear these conversation the last racing season!
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 5:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Not sure why the ass end of the boat has so much difficulty following 
>> instructions: https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM Nauset Beach via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is having 
>> the foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the chain 
>> plates prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined 
>> through practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down, and 
>> then tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and there 
>> is no load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to drop 
>> the new guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast 
>> without any real load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims 
>> back the new guy after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and 
>> then the spin trimmer eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is brought 
>> in. 
>>  
>> And of course, the helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until that 
>> call as well…
>>  
>> All it takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;) 
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
>> via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
>> To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling
>>  
>> Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the 
>> chute is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy to 
>> move the chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the center 
>> seam has prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then the 
>> foredeck person has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.
>> A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the boat 
>> keeping the Windex CENTERED between the tabs and then have the foredeck gybe 
>> the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on the center 
>> seam of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the forestay.
>> When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made on 
>> the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go 
>> smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch 
>> the center seam!
>>  
>> Dennis C.
>>  
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys!
>>  
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>  
>> As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully concur. 
>> Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted monkey at 
>> the blunt end 
>> Cheers,
>> Paul.
>>  
>> 1974 27' MkII
>> Sidney, BC.
>>  
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

We need to put that guy on the pointy end of my 42 in 20-25 knots of breeze 
with the massive chute and (mostly) following seas.  Even the church-goers 
start sounding like him.

From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Kevin Driscoll 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

That video is an all time classic in my book. I can not believe it doesn't have 
a gazillion views.



On Tue, Dec 6, 2016, 6:58 PM John McKay via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

  Damn Kevin I howled


  How often did I hear these conversation the last racing season!


  John





  On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 5:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:




  Not sure why the ass end of the boat has so much difficulty following 
instructions: https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A

  On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM Nauset Beach via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is having 
the foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the chain plates 
prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined through 
practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down, and then 
tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and there is no 
load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to drop the new 
guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast without any real 
load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims back the new guy 
after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and then the spin trimmer 
eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is brought in.  

And of course, the helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until that 
call as well…

All it takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;)  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis 
C. via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the 
chute is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy to 
move the chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the center 
seam has prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then the foredeck 
person has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.
A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the boat 
keeping the Windex CENTERED between the tabs and then have the foredeck gybe 
the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on the center seam 
of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the forestay.
When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made 
on the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go 
smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch the 
center seam!

Dennis C.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
  Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys!

  On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

  As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully 
concur. Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted monkey 
at the blunt end 
  Cheers,
  Paul.

  1974 27' MkII 
  Sidney, BC.

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


  ___

  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




  ___

  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go 

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

That video is an all time classic in my book. I can not believe it doesn't
have a gazillion views.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016, 6:58 PM John McKay via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Damn Kevin I howled
>
> How often did I hear these conversation the last racing season!
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 5:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> Not sure why the ass end of the boat has so much difficulty following
> instructions: https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM Nauset Beach via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is
> having the foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the
> chain plates prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined
> through practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down,
> and then tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and
> there is no load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to
> drop the new guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast
> without any real load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims
> back the new guy after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and
> then the spin trimmer eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is
> brought in.
>
> And of course, the helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until
> that call as well…
>
> All it takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;)
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis
> C. via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
> *To:* CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling
>
> Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the
> chute is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy
> to move the chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the
> center seam has prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then
> the foredeck person has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.
> A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the boat
> keeping the Windex *CENTERED *between the tabs and then have the foredeck
> gybe the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on the
> center seam of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the forestay.
> When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made
> on the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go
> smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch
> the center seam!
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys!
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully
> concur. Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted
> monkey at the blunt end [image: ��]
> Cheers,
> Paul.
>
> 1974 27' MkII
> Sidney, BC.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[John McKay via CnC-List]

Damn Kevin I howled
How often did I hear these conversation the last racing season!
John
 

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 5:40 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
 

 Not sure why the ass end of the boat has so much difficulty following 
instructions: https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A
On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM Nauset Beach via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is having the 
foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the chain plates 
prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined through 
practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down, and then 
tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and there is no 
load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to drop the new 
guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast without any real 
load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims back the new guy 
after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and then the spin trimmer 
eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is brought in.   And of course, the 
helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until that call as well… All it 
takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;)   From: 
CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling Think about it like this, if the 
center seam on the bottom panel of the chute is directly ahead of the boat 
(centered on the forestay) it is easy to move the chute side to side to make 
the pole on either side.  If the center seam has prematurely crossed the 
forestay to the leeward side then the foredeck person has to push the sail back 
to windward to make the pole.A simple light air practice exercise is to center 
the main, steer the boat keeping the Windex CENTERED between the tabs and then 
have the foredeck gybe the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of 
tape on the center seam of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the 
forestay.When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole 
made on the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go 
smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch the 
center seam! Dennis C. On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys! On Tuesday, December 6, 
2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: As 
someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully concur. 
Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted monkey at the 
blunt end Cheers,Paul. 1974 27' MkII Sidney, BC.
 ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


   ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

Not sure why the ass end of the boat has so much difficulty following
instructions: https://youtu.be/4MRunq1y2_A

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM Nauset Beach via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is
> having the foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the
> chain plates prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined
> through practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down,
> and then tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and
> there is no load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to
> drop the new guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast
> without any real load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims
> back the new guy after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and
> then the spin trimmer eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is
> brought in.
>
>
>
> And of course, the helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until
> that call as well…
>
>
>
> All it takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;)
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis
> C. via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
> *To:* CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling
>
>
>
> Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the
> chute is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy
> to move the chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the
> center seam has prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then
> the foredeck person has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.
>
> A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the boat
> keeping the Windex *CENTERED *between the tabs and then have the foredeck
> gybe the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on the
> center seam of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the forestay.
>
> When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made
> on the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go
> smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch
> the center seam!
>
>
>
> Dennis C.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys!
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully
> concur. Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted
> monkey at the blunt end [image: ��]
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul.
>
>
>
> 1974 27' MkII
>
> Sidney, BC.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Nauset Beach via CnC-List]

Another aspect of smoother end for end gybes with sheets and guys is having the 
foredeck make certain there is plenty of slack lazy guy at the chain plates 
prior to beginning the maneuver – how much slack is determined through 
practice.  When the pole is trimmed back as the boat turns down, and then 
tripped, the spin trimmer controls the kite with both sheets and there is no 
load on the new guy.  The mast man / foredeck should be able to drop the new 
guy into the jaw and push the pole out and make it on the mast without any real 
load on the pole via the guy.  The guy trimmer only trims back the new guy 
after the call of “Made” is heard from the foredeck, and then the spin trimmer 
eases the weather spin sheet as the new guy is brought in.  

 

And of course, the helmsman has to not turn up to the new course until that 
call as well…

 

All it takes is a lot of practice to get everyone on the same page…  ;)  

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:04 PM
To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

 

Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the chute 
is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy to move the 
chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the center seam has 
prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then the foredeck person 
has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.

A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the boat 
keeping the Windex CENTERED between the tabs and then have the foredeck gybe 
the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on the center seam 
of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the forestay.

When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made on 
the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go 
smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch the 
center seam!

 

Dennis C.

 

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys!

 

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully concur. 
Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted monkey at the 
blunt end 

Cheers,

Paul.

 

1974 27' MkII 

Sidney, BC.

 

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Think about it like this, if the center seam on the bottom panel of the
chute is directly ahead of the boat (centered on the forestay) it is easy
to move the chute side to side to make the pole on either side.  If the
center seam has prematurely crossed the forestay to the leeward side then
the foredeck person has to push the sail back to windward to make the pole.

A simple light air practice exercise is to center the main, steer the boat
keeping the Windex *CENTERED *between the tabs and then have the foredeck
gybe the chute back and forth a few times.  Put a piece of tape on the
center seam of the bottom panel to give a visible reference to the forestay.

When racing, if the foredeck can complete the gybe and have the pole made
on the mast while the Windex is still well between the tabs, it should go
smoothly.  The speed of the turn is controlled by the helmsperson!  Watch
the center seam!

Dennis C.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, John McKay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys!
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
> As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully
> concur. Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted
> monkey at the blunt end [image: ��]
> Cheers,
> Paul.
>
> 1974 27' MkII
> Sidney, BC.
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> on behalf of David
> Kaseler via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Sent:* December 5, 2016 6:09 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* David Kaseler; Michael Brown
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling
>
> Turns out, in my view, the success of spinnaker set, gybe and take down is
> controlled at the helm. When the boat is correctly driven through the
> maneuver the job on the foredeck is much more manageable. Please don't tell
> my wife the skipper.
> Dave. K
> SLY 1975 C 33
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[John McKay via CnC-List]

Yikes, and I have been blaming it on the foredeck guys! 

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 12:09 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
 

 #yiv8286461759 #yiv8286461759 -- P 
{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv8286461759 As someone who does the pointy 
end on multiple racing boats, I fully concur. Almost all of the FUBAR kite 
moments are down to the ham-fisted monkey at the blunt endCheers,Paul.
1974 27' MkIISidney, BC.

From: CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> on behalf of David Kaseler via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: December 5, 2016 6:09 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: David Kaseler; Michael Brown
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling Turns out, in my view, the 
success of spinnaker set, gybe and take down is controlled at the helm. When 
the boat is correctly driven through the maneuver the job on the foredeck is 
much more manageable. Please don't tell my wife the skipper.Dave. KSLY 1975 C 
33

Sent from my iPad



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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


   ___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Paul Baker via CnC-List]

As someone who does the pointy end on multiple racing boats, I fully concur. 
Almost all of the FUBAR kite moments are down to the ham-fisted monkey at the 
blunt end []

Cheers,

Paul.

1974 27' MkII
Sidney, BC.


From: CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> on behalf of David Kaseler via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: December 5, 2016 6:09 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: David Kaseler; Michael Brown
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

Turns out, in my view, the success of spinnaker set, gybe and take down is 
controlled at the helm. When the boat is correctly driven through the maneuver 
the job on the foredeck is much more manageable. Please don't tell my wife the 
skipper.
Dave. K
SLY 1975 C 33

Sent from my iPad

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[David Kaseler via CnC-List]

Turns out, in my view, the success of spinnaker set, gybe and take down is 
controlled at the helm. When the boat is correctly driven through the maneuver 
the job on the foredeck is much more manageable. Please don't tell my wife the 
skipper.
Dave. K
SLY 1975 C 33

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Windburn we do end-for-end due to carrying an oversized pole.
> The J is 13.5' and the the pole is 14.4'. We normally do not have guys.
> 
> If there is difficulty keeping the chute stable and helping out foredeck
> by steering the chute try centering the main for a moment just as they
> are about to snap in the mast end.
> 
> Further to what Dennis is advising I find that losing the sail area of the
> spinnaker due to it not drawing well is slower than losing the sail area
> of the main for 5 - 10 seconds during the gybe. Note that the symmetrical
> spinnaker is 850 sq ft vs 225 sq ft for the main on Windburn.
> 
> In very light winds when gybing from a hot angle centering the main
> also helps to keep the spinnaker from collapsing and wrapping the
> forestay.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
> 
> From: "Dennis C."  
> 
> Charlie, 
> 
> While many consider 35-36 feet the upper limit for end for end gybes, we 
> use end for end with an aluminum pole on Touche' (35-1).  With the right 
> technique, you shouldn't have issues. 
> 
> I've been doing foredeck since the mid 90's.  I think the key to a good, 
> and safe, end for end gybe is the driver and the way the driver and crew 
> think about the gybe. 
> 
> Many sailors think a chute gybe is moving the chute across the boat.  I 
> don't subscribe to that philosophy. 
> 
> A better way to think about gybing is you're moving the BOAT under the 
> chute.  Doesn't sound like much of a difference but it really is.  The idea 
> is to keep the chute flying and drawing while the driver gradually steers 
> the boat to the new course.  If the chute continues to fly effectively, 
> connecting the pole to the new sheet and then the mast will be nearly 
> effortless. 
> 
> Sit down with your crew and talk about gybing with this philosophy.  It may 
> be the difference you need. 
> 
> Dennis C. 
> Touche' 35-1 #83 
> Mandeville, LA 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 
> 
> > We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our 
> > kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes 
> > or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with 
> > snap-in fitting on both ends. 
> > 
> > We always use lazy sheets and guys. 
> > 
> > As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or 
> > should use. 
> > 
> > However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our 
> > jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I 
> > share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the 
> > jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man 
> > struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time 
> > and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it 
> > also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and 
> > shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made. 
> > 
> > I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
> > about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems 
> > like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we 
> > raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole 
> > downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of 
> > them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened 
> > out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us. 
> > 
> > OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in 
> > the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a 
> > need for more practice. 
> > 
> > My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in 
> > so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water 
> > Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always 
> > use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it. 
> > 
> > Charlie Nelson 
> > Water Phantom 
> > C 36 XL/kcb 
> > 
> > cenel...@aol.com 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a 

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

To add:
On the 35 MK I at least, the sheet trimmer steers the boat too. If you have a 
good one or at least one that responds quickly to calls like “5 feet – 10 feet 
– take it back”, you can go in a more or less straight line when some of your 
newer IOR design competition is … ah…not going straight ☺
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:44
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford <wolf...@erie.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

Amen to that.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:35 AM
To: CnClist<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dennis C.<mailto:capt...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

While we're on the subject of spinnaker handling, when dead downwind in heavy 
breeze, never, ever let the center seam on the bottom panel of your chute be to 
WINDWARD of the forestay.  That is, keep the pole a bit forward.  You're 
probably already at hull speed so you don't need to optimize the trim.
It's a whole lot better to broach than to do a "death roll".
Dennis C.

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Amen to that.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:35 AM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

While we're on the subject of spinnaker handling, when dead downwind in heavy 
breeze, never, ever let the center seam on the bottom panel of your chute be to 
WINDWARD of the forestay.  That is, keep the pole a bit forward.  You're 
probably already at hull speed so you don't need to optimize the trim.


It's a whole lot better to broach than to do a "death roll".


Dennis C.




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Stus-List Spinnaker handling safety tip

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

While we're on the subject of spinnaker handling, when dead downwind in
heavy breeze, never, ever let the center seam on the bottom panel of your
chute be to WINDWARD of the forestay.  That is, keep the pole a bit
forward.  You're probably already at hull speed so you don't need to
optimize the trim.

It's a whole lot better to broach than to do a "death roll".

Dennis C.
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

On Windburn we do end-for-end due to carrying an oversized pole.
The J is 13.5' and the the pole is 14.4'. We normally do not have guys.

If there is difficulty keeping the chute stable and helping out foredeck
by steering the chute try centering the main for a moment just as they
are about to snap in the mast end.

Further to what Dennis is advising I find that losing the sail area of the
spinnaker due to it not drawing well is slower than losing the sail area
of the main for 5 - 10 seconds during the gybe. Note that the symmetrical
spinnaker is 850 sq ft vs 225 sq ft for the main on Windburn.

In very light winds when gybing from a hot angle centering the main
also helps to keep the spinnaker from collapsing and wrapping the
forestay.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


From: "Dennis C."  
 
Charlie, 
 
While many consider 35-36 feet the upper limit for end for end gybes, we 
use end for end with an aluminum pole on Touche' (35-1).  With the right 
technique, you shouldn't have issues. 
 
I've been doing foredeck since the mid 90's.  I think the key to a good, 
and safe, end for end gybe is the driver and the way the driver and crew 
think about the gybe. 
 
Many sailors think a chute gybe is moving the chute across the boat.  I 
don't subscribe to that philosophy. 
 
A better way to think about gybing is you're moving the BOAT under the 
chute.  Doesn't sound like much of a difference but it really is.  The idea 
is to keep the chute flying and drawing while the driver gradually steers 
the boat to the new course.  If the chute continues to fly effectively, 
connecting the pole to the new sheet and then the mast will be nearly 
effortless. 
 
Sit down with your crew and talk about gybing with this philosophy.  It may 
be the difference you need. 
 
Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 
 
On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 
 
> We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our 
> kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes 
> or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with 
> snap-in fitting on both ends. 
> 
> We always use lazy sheets and guys. 
> 
> As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or 
> should use. 
> 
> However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our 
> jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I 
> share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the 
> jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man 
> struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time 
> and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it 
> also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and 
> shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made. 
> 
> I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
> about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems 
> like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we 
> raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole 
> downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of 
> them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened 
> out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us. 
> 
> OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in 
> the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a 
> need for more practice. 
> 
> My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in 
> so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water 
> Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always 
> use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it. 
> 
> Charlie Nelson 
> Water Phantom 
> C 36 XL/kcb 
> 
> cenel...@aol.com 
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I have never done anything but dip-pole gybes on our C 35.
We have also done "chicken gybes" where you drop the spinnaker totally and 
rehoist it on the other tack. We did this a couple of times in heavy air and 
thought we were being total wussies until we realized we gained a few boats 
over the boats that broke poles, wrapped the chute big time, or otherwise had 
gybing disasters.
Sailing shorthanded and cruising, I fly the chute in asym mode and gybe from 
the cockpit with no more issues than gybing the genoa.

Joe
Coquina


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 10:04
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca>
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

Charlie:

I was foredeck person racing, and we did a lot of racing.  As the boats got 
bigger we did dip-pole jibes.they are quick, easy and most importantly, 
safe. Changing from end to end gybes, we made the same mistakes as you, but to 
do it right, practice, practice and practice.and we did.

Before the gybe and trip of the old guy, bring the pole back almost 
perpendicular so the release is clean.  Then as helsman, after the pole is 
released, square off the spin in front of the boat until the new guy is 
made.one mistake is that the helsman over steers the boat before the crew 
completes the jibe.

Have mast person raise inboard end of pole ready to trip pole (old 
guy),..have your foredeck person in front of the forestay crouching down 
looking back leaning forward on the forestayhe always holds the new guy 
with the palm always pointed down to drop new guy in jaws .this way the 
thumb is always pointed back and can be used to pressure the jaw(s|) to 
close..always hold new guy the same way and you will never wrap 
jaws..have mast person assist with guiding the pole down to the foredeck 
person and help the pit man to raise the pole.

The dip pole gybe is a choreography with many people doing all the right things 
at the right time and when you get it right, you won't want to do end for end 
gybes.  The helmsman, pit man, trimmers, mast man and foredeck person all have 
to pay attention and know what each is doing and when.

Go out and practice.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2016-12-04 10:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends.

We always use lazy sheets and guys.

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use.

However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.

I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.

OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in the 
incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a need for 
more practice.

My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in so 
that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water Phantom 
and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always use the same 
method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com<mailto:cenel...@aol.com>




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Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[robert via CnC-List]

Charlie:

I was foredeck person racing, and we did a lot of racing.  As the boats 
got bigger we did dip-pole jibes.they are quick, easy and most 
importantly, safe. Changing from end to end gybes, we made the same 
mistakes as you, but to do it right, practice, practice and 
practice.and we did.


Before the gybe and trip of the old guy, bring the pole back almost 
perpendicular so the release is clean.  Then as helsman, after the pole 
is released, square off the spin in front of the boat until the new guy 
is made.one mistake is that the helsman over steers the boat before 
the crew completes the jibe.


Have mast person raise inboard end of pole ready to trip pole (old 
guy),..have your foredeck person in front of the forestay crouching 
down looking back leaning forward on the forestayhe always holds 
the new guy with the palm always pointed down to drop new guy in jaws 
.this way the thumb is always pointed back and can be used to 
pressure the jaw(s|) to close..always hold new guy the same way and 
you will never wrap jaws..have mast person assist with guiding the 
pole down to the foredeck person and help the pit man to raise the pole.


The dip pole gybe is a choreography with many people doing all the right 
things at the right time and when you get it right, you won't want to do 
end for end gybes.  The helmsman, pit man, trimmers, mast man and 
foredeck person all have to pay attention and know what each is doing 
and when.


Go out and practice.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




On 2016-12-04 10:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our 
kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole 
jibes or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon 
fiber pole with snap-in fitting on both ends.


We always use lazy sheets and guys.

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use 
or should use.


However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our 
jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course 
I share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind 
during the jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, 
the mast man struggles to get the pole into the fitting and 
made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of downwind separation to 
our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for the pole 
smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.


I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes 
above about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste 
what seems like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence 
since when we raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how 
to set the pole downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward 
mark and have most of them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got 
the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us downwind even if a 
few gained on us.


OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the 
pole in the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is 
certainly a need for more practice.


My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time 
in so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft 
Water Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer 
to always use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Charlie:

I have a 42 and we only dip the pole.  I have raced on smaller boats, 
however, and Mike’s assessment is good.  That said, your question indicates 
that you want to commit to one method or the other (to get really good at it), 
and you’re asking for a suggestion as to which one to choose.  Given that the 
dip method will most certainly need to be used above 10 knots or so on your 
boat, I would commit to this method.  Otherwise, your crew will continue to 
practice two methods and may not master one.  My two cents.

MLW

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

Hi Charlie

 

I would like to first say that our family had a 1981 C 36 since new for nine 
years.  However we rarely flew the spinnaker on it, never raced and I do not 
recall ever gybing.  That said I did feel that it was a big powerful boat at 
the time.

 

On our boats we have always done end for end because it is simpler and faster.  
Initially on our Niagara 26 we did dip pole (because I knew no other way) and 
it was slow and un-necessary and we switched to end for end.  We carried this 
over to the J/27 as well.  We have always sailed with just one sheet/guy on 
either side.  In the Frers fleet however at 33 feet LOA dip pole starts to 
become more common and half the boats use separate sheets and guys and some do 
dip pole when the wind pipes up.  We have stayed with end for end and one set 
of lines because it is easier and because I have no intention of flying the 
chute when it is truly windy.  On a friend’s C the pole has ends that 
only allow dip pole and they are considering changing so they can do end for 
end. With the C 115 we were always dip pole.  The pole is set up so only that 
is possible.  

 

>From what I understand after a certain size dip pole is not only much safer 
>but just about all that is possible.  I would think that a C 36 is pretty 
>much approaching that size with its masthead rig and relatively large J.

 

On our boat I often end up doing foredeck (because we have a lot of people 
capable of doing the other jobs).  There are usually two factors that make an 
end for end gybe difficult.  The first is the driver turning before the mast 
end is made which puts excessive pressure on the pole and can make completing 
the gybe nearly impossible.  The second is when the person on the new guy 
sheets it in too soon putting pressure on the mast end.  As it gets windier 
both of these situations become more difficult to resolve

 

On the C 115 I was on main.  Of course like many main trimmers I would too 
often watch the foredeck rather than my sail.  Dip pole required a good mast 
man along with a good bow man and they had to be in sync.  With the extra line 
we very frequently managed to wrap the new guy around the jaws rather thn 
allowing it to move freely.  Many times we did not have smooth gybes as a 
result.  From this perspective end for end would be much simpler

 

If the 36 were my boat and we were used to end for end I would stick with that 
up til 8 knows with single sheet and guy and then dip pole with double 
sheet/guy above that.  This would make for the quickest gybes IMO

 

Mike

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 10:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

 

We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends. 

 

We always use lazy sheets and guys.

 

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use. 

 

However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.

 

I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie

I would like to first say that our family had a 1981 C 36 since new for nine 
years.  However we rarely flew the spinnaker on it, never raced and I do not 
recall ever gybing.  That said I did feel that it was a big powerful boat at 
the time.

On our boats we have always done end for end because it is simpler and faster.  
Initially on our Niagara 26 we did dip pole (because I knew no other way) and 
it was slow and un-necessary and we switched to end for end.  We carried this 
over to the J/27 as well.  We have always sailed with just one sheet/guy on 
either side.  In the Frers fleet however at 33 feet LOA dip pole starts to 
become more common and half the boats use separate sheets and guys and some do 
dip pole when the wind pipes up.  We have stayed with end for end and one set 
of lines because it is easier and because I have no intention of flying the 
chute when it is truly windy.  On a friend’s C the pole has ends that 
only allow dip pole and they are considering changing so they can do end for 
end. With the C 115 we were always dip pole.  The pole is set up so only that 
is possible.

From what I understand after a certain size dip pole is not only much safer but 
just about all that is possible.  I would think that a C 36 is pretty much 
approaching that size with its masthead rig and relatively large J.

On our boat I often end up doing foredeck (because we have a lot of people 
capable of doing the other jobs).  There are usually two factors that make an 
end for end gybe difficult.  The first is the driver turning before the mast 
end is made which puts excessive pressure on the pole and can make completing 
the gybe nearly impossible.  The second is when the person on the new guy 
sheets it in too soon putting pressure on the mast end.  As it gets windier 
both of these situations become more difficult to resolve

On the C 115 I was on main.  Of course like many main trimmers I would too 
often watch the foredeck rather than my sail.  Dip pole required a good mast 
man along with a good bow man and they had to be in sync.  With the extra line 
we very frequently managed to wrap the new guy around the jaws rather thn 
allowing it to move freely.  Many times we did not have smooth gybes as a 
result.  From this perspective end for end would be much simpler

If the 36 were my boat and we were used to end for end I would stick with that 
up til 8 knows with single sheet and guy and then dip pole with double 
sheet/guy above that.  This would make for the quickest gybes IMO

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 10:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends.

We always use lazy sheets and guys.

As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use.

However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.

I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.

OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in the 
incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a need for 
more practice.

My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in so 
that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water Phantom 
and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always use the same 
method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com<mailto:cenel...@aol.com>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Not any longer--ditched that many years ago on the advice on my sailmaker who 
saw little reason for it on a masthead rig without swept back spreaders and 
with check stays except for reducing pumping in chop.


Charlie


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: jacob fuerst via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: jacob fuerst <jjfue...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling



Do you have a baby stay?


Jacob Fuerst
'78 C 36
303-520-4669



On Dec 4, 2016 6:21 PM, "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends.


We always use lazy sheets and guys.


As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use. 


However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.


I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.


OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in the 
incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a need for 
more practice. 


My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in so 
that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water Phantom 
and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always use the same 
method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb 




cenel...@aol.com


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Charlie,

While many consider 35-36 feet the upper limit for end for end gybes, we
use end for end with an aluminum pole on Touche' (35-1).  With the right
technique, you shouldn't have issues.

I've been doing foredeck since the mid 90's.  I think the key to a good,
and safe, end for end gybe is the driver and the way the driver and crew
think about the gybe.

Many sailors think a chute gybe is moving the chute across the boat.  I
don't subscribe to that philosophy.

A better way to think about gybing is you're moving the BOAT under the
chute.  Doesn't sound like much of a difference but it really is.  The idea
is to keep the chute flying and drawing while the driver gradually steers
the boat to the new course.  If the chute continues to fly effectively,
connecting the pole to the new sheet and then the mast will be nearly
effortless.

Sit down with your crew and talk about gybing with this philosophy.  It may
be the difference you need.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our
> kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes
> or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with
> snap-in fitting on both ends.
>
> We always use lazy sheets and guys.
>
> As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or
> should use.
>
> However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our
> jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I
> share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the
> jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man
> struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time
> and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it
> also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and
> shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made.
>
> I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above
> about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems
> like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we
> raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole
> downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of
> them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened
> out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us.
>
> OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in
> the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a
> need for more practice.
>
> My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in
> so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water
> Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always
> use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C 36 XL/kcb
>
>
> cenel...@aol.com
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

I've been using dip pole gybes for the past forty years.  I even did it
that way with my thirty foot Ericson, before getting my present boat.  Dip
pole gybes are always safer, since you don't have to disconnect the pole
from the mast.  the crew just needs practice.  Get out and gybe back and
forth while going downwind, until they get it.  Meanwhile, you have to
concentrate on steering straight.  Don't watch what the crew is doing.  If
you want to get involved in the gybe, give the helm to someone else, and
make sure they steer straight, and not watch the foredeck crew.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our
> kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes
> or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with
> snap-in fitting on both ends.
>
> We always use lazy sheets and guys.
>
> As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or
> should use.
>
> However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our
> jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I
> share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the
> jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man
> struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time
> and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it
> also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and
> shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made.
>
> I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above
> about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems
> like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we
> raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole
> downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of
> them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened
> out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us.
>
> OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in
> the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a
> need for more practice.
>
> My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in
> so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water
> Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always
> use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C 36 XL/kcb
>
>
> cenel...@aol.com
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
> paypal.me_stumurray=DgICAg=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN
> 0H8p7CSfnc_gI=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ=
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> 9MICfQn0C8EOC4aA4=
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[jacob fuerst via CnC-List]

Do you have a baby stay?

Jacob Fuerst
'78 C 36
303-520-4669

On Dec 4, 2016 6:21 PM, "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our
> kite(s) and have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes
> or end-for-end. The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with
> snap-in fitting on both ends.
>
> We always use lazy sheets and guys.
>
> As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or
> should use.
>
> However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our
> jibes are taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I
> share some of the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the
> jibe but even when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man
> struggles to get the pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time
> and giving a lot of downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it
> also puts him at risk for the pole smashing him about the head and
> shoulders if the pressure builds on the kite before he has it made.
>
> I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above
> about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems
> like too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we
> raced non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole
> downwind, we would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of
> them pass us on the way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened
> out, no one passed us downwind even if a few gained on us.
>
> OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in
> the incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a
> need for more practice.
>
> My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in
> so that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water
> Phantom and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always
> use the same method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C 36 XL/kcb
>
>
> cenel...@aol.com
>
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>
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> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Stus-List Spinnaker pole handling

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

We use a carbon fiber pole on Water Phantom, C 36 XL/kcb, for our kite(s) and 
have 'oscillated' back and forth between doing dip-pole jibes or end-for-end. 
The pole is a relatively light Forte carbon fiber pole with snap-in fitting on 
both ends.


We always use lazy sheets and guys.


As the driver, I don't have strong feelings about which method we use or should 
use. 


However, especially in breezes above 8 knots, it looks to me like our jibes are 
taking too much time when we end for end the pole. Of course I share some of 
the blame if I can't keep the boat headed downwind during the jibe but even 
when I seem to manage keeping her downwind, the mast man struggles to get the 
pole into the fitting and made--taking valuable time and giving a lot of 
downwind separation to our competitors. Of course, it also puts him at risk for 
the pole smashing him about the head and shoulders if the pressure builds on 
the kite before he has it made.


I am convinced that my boat can sail to her rating upwind in breezes above 
about 8 knots--less not so much!--but downwind we often waste what seems like 
too much time on jibing. I say this with confidence since when we raced 
non-spin with a whisker pole, until we learned how to set the pole downwind, we 
would beat every boat to the windward mark and have most of them pass us on the 
way downwind. Once we got the mechanics straightened out, no one passed us 
downwind even if a few gained on us.


OTOH, if we dip pole, the bow person often gets the new guy in the pole in the 
incorrect position (with his back to the bow), so there is certainly a need for 
more practice. 


My question for the list is what method should we invest practice time in so 
that jibing can be as routine as tacking. It seems that at 36 ft Water Phantom 
and a fiber pole could go either way but I would prefer to always use the same 
method so that we have a chance to get quick at it.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb 




cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb

[Dave via CnC-List]

Had  a brainwave today and picked up a large exhaust pipe expander from 
princess auto today (a Canadian version of Harbour Freight)
Worked very well indeed to press the dent out from the inside, and 
coincidentally straighten the bend - no doubt it is not at its original 
strength, but overall not bad at all!  

Dave 




Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 11:13:31 -0600
From: "Dennis C." <capt...@gmail.com>
To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb
Message-ID:
   <CANir+yspLSpABFJSc7seEr58hBZrvKTWP=-qdcr+sl8dygz...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'd do that.  Buy a tube and move everything.

With the dent so close to the end, you could cut it off and sell the
remainder on eBay.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 8:51 AM, robert via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> We bent/dented a spin pole on a C 33 MKII forgot to release the baby
> stay on a jibegot a new length of aluminum tube and used all the
> existing hardwarethe Binnacle did all the work for a few hundred
> $$$.FYI
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
> On 2016-11-14 6:58 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I?d be very wary of any dent fix solution that doesn?t involve a sleeve.
> Even better, simply buy a length of aluminum tube of the same dimensions,
> cut it to length and add all the existing hardware. I don?t have any
> numbers but I have to believe it will be cheaper than having someone try to
> pull the dent out.
> 
> Remember, when that spinnaker is up it will be putting a large amount of
> strain on that pole. Having it fold up at the wrong moment will be un-fun.
> 
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin?s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
> 
> On Nov 14, 2016, at 5:30 PM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> Dave.call your local Dr. Dent repair...find him in the automotive
> services section of your yellow pages..
> Those guys do this on metal all the time.
> Ron C.
> 
> 
> Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: syerd...@gmail.com
> Sent: 2016-11-14 5:26:16 PM
> Subject: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb
> 
> Evening all,
> 
> This winter's theme is running rigging, and this includes dealing with the
> spinnaker pole, which is dented, slightly bent, and needs a new shock cord
> bridle.   Per recommendations here, I picked up the shock cord tools last
> weekend in Nova Scotia - that part is easy.  Any suggestions on how to
> with the dent/bend?
> 
> See photos here.

Sent from my iPhone___

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Re: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I'd do that.  Buy a tube and move everything.

With the dent so close to the end, you could cut it off and sell the
remainder on eBay.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 8:51 AM, robert via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> We bent/dented a spin pole on a C 33 MKII forgot to release the baby
> stay on a jibegot a new length of aluminum tube and used all the
> existing hardwarethe Binnacle did all the work for a few hundred
> $$$.FYI
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
> On 2016-11-14 6:58 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I’d be very wary of any dent fix solution that doesn’t involve a sleeve.
> Even better, simply buy a length of aluminum tube of the same dimensions,
> cut it to length and add all the existing hardware. I don’t have any
> numbers but I have to believe it will be cheaper than having someone try to
> pull the dent out.
>
> Remember, when that spinnaker is up it will be putting a large amount of
> strain on that pole. Having it fold up at the wrong moment will be un-fun.
>
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
>
> On Nov 14, 2016, at 5:30 PM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Dave.call your local Dr. Dent repair...find him in the automotive
> services section of your yellow pages..
> Those guys do this on metal all the time.
> Ron C.
>
>
> Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: syerd...@gmail.com
> Sent: 2016-11-14 5:26:16 PM
> Subject: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb
>
> Evening all,
>
> This winter's theme is running rigging, and this includes dealing with the
> spinnaker pole, which is dented, slightly bent, and needs a new shock cord
> bridle.   Per recommendations here, I picked up the shock cord tools last
> weekend in Nova Scotia - that part is easy.  Any suggestions on how to
>  with the dent/bend?
>
> See photos here.
>
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/11/spinnaker-pole-repair.html
>
> Thanks, Dave '85 33-2 Windstar
>
>
>
> ___ This list is supported by
> the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution
> to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb

[robert via CnC-List]

We bent/dented a spin pole on a C 33 MKII forgot to release the 
baby stay on a jibegot a new length of aluminum tube and used all 
the existing hardwarethe Binnacle did all the work for a few hundred 
$$$.FYI


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2016-11-14 6:58 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List wrote:

Dave,

I’d be very wary of any dent fix solution that doesn’t involve a 
sleeve. Even better, simply buy a length of aluminum tube of the same 
dimensions, cut it to length and add all the existing hardware. I 
don’t have any numbers but I have to believe it will be cheaper than 
having someone try to pull the dent out.


Remember, when that spinnaker is up it will be putting a large amount 
of strain on that pole. Having it fold up at the wrong moment will be 
un-fun.


Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>

On Nov 14, 2016, at 5:30 PM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Dave.call your local Dr. Dent repair...find him in the automotive 
services section of your yellow pages..

Those guys do this on metal all the time.
Ron C.


Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App


-Original Message-

From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: syerd...@gmail.com <mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>
Sent: 2016-11-14 5:26:16 PM
Subject: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb

Evening all,

This winter's theme is running rigging, and this includes dealing 
with the spinnaker pole, which is dented, slightly bent, and needs a 
new shock cord bridle.   Per recommendations here, I picked up the 
shock cord tools last weekend in Nova Scotia - that part is easy.  
Any suggestions on how to  with the dent/bend?


See photos here.

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/11/spinnaker-pole-repair.html

Thanks, Dave '85 33-2 Windstar



___ This list is 
supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly 
appreciated!




___

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you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker (not dented pole...) related.

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Regardless of how it used to run, you might consider how I run the pole
downhaul on Touche'.  Warning, it ain't cheap.

I use a single block with snap shackle to attach to the bridle ring.  The
doubled line then runs down to a double block with carabiner that clips to
a Wichard fold down pad eye centered on the foredeck.  The lines run
outboard and down each side along the toe rail through single
block/carabiners and then to cam cleats on either side of the cabin just
forward of the cockpit.  The two ends are tied together and usually tossed
down the companionway.  In essence, it becomes and "endless" downhaul.

Having a double downhaul allows the guy trimmer to trim both the guy and
downhaul from either side.  On Touche' that's his/her job.

The only deck penetrations are the pad eye and cam cleat fasteners.

When not racing, the downhaul is stored in a cockpit locker.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker (not dented pole...) related.

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

My 1995 XL has a port and starboard set of bullseyes for a double ended 
downhaul that can be secured on both sides of the cockpit. 


The bullseye tracks end in a cam cleat at the end of the cabin top and run 
about 1/2 way up the cabin sides to a double block forward under the pole that 
improves the purchase.


Your extra set of bullseyes could be used in this manner.


I also second the the notion of either adding a sleeve where the dent is when 
it is removed or banged out with a tool that is like a reverse hammer(don't 
know its real name) or redoing the entire pole. You already have the most 
expensive parts (end pieces).


Charlie Nelson
C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Dave Godwin via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dave Godwin <dave.god...@me.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2016 6:06 pm
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker (not dented pole...) related.


So, I have a request out to any spinnaker-rigged 37 and 35 MKIII (similar deck 
layout I suspect…) owners about how their pole downhaul line is routed.


I am in the process of masking and taping the boat which involves laying out 
the gloss/non-gloss areas. On my boat I have the pole downhaul running along 
the port side from a rope clutch forward to three Harken bulls-eyes to the pole 
bridle. But when going through my box-o-hardware I have four bulls-eyes. Doh!


I can’t remember if there was a fourth used with the downhaul or it went 
somewhere else. And of course, of all the pictures I took to keep track of 
hardware placement there isn’t anything showing forward of the mast.


Now, it may be associated with baby-stay run but…


Thoughts. Pictures?


Best,


Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit




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Stus-List Spinnaker (not dented pole...) related.

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

So, I have a request out to any spinnaker-rigged 37 and 35 MKIII (similar deck 
layout I suspect…) owners about how their pole downhaul line is routed.

I am in the process of masking and taping the boat which involves laying out 
the gloss/non-gloss areas. On my boat I have the pole downhaul running along 
the port side from a rope clutch forward to three Harken bulls-eyes to the pole 
bridle. But when going through my box-o-hardware I have four bulls-eyes. Doh!

I can’t remember if there was a fourth used with the downhaul or it went 
somewhere else. And of course, of all the pictures I took to keep track of 
hardware placement there isn’t anything showing forward of the mast.

Now, it may be associated with baby-stay run but…

Thoughts. Pictures?

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
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Re: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Dave,

I’d be very wary of any dent fix solution that doesn’t involve a sleeve. Even 
better, simply buy a length of aluminum tube of the same dimensions, cut it to 
length and add all the existing hardware. I don’t have any numbers but I have 
to believe it will be cheaper than having someone try to pull the dent out.

Remember, when that spinnaker is up it will be putting a large amount of strain 
on that pole. Having it fold up at the wrong moment will be un-fun.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
> On Nov 14, 2016, at 5:30 PM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> Dave.call your local Dr. Dent repair...find him in the automotive 
> services section of your yellow pages..
> Those guys do this on metal all the time.
> Ron C.
> 
> 
> Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: syerd...@gmail.com
> Sent: 2016-11-14 5:26:16 PM 
> Subject: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb
> 
> Evening all,
> 
> This winter's theme is running rigging, and this includes dealing with the 
> spinnaker pole, which is dented, slightly bent, and needs a new shock cord 
> bridle.   Per recommendations here, I picked up the shock cord tools last 
> weekend in Nova Scotia - that part is easy.  Any suggestions on how to  with 
> the dent/bend?
> 
> See photos here.
> 
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/11/spinnaker-pole-repair.html 
> <http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/11/spinnaker-pole-repair.html>
> 
> Thanks, Dave '85 33-2 Windstar
> 
> 
> 
> ___ This list is supported by the 
> generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to 
> offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All 
> Contributions are greatly appreciated! 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

Dave.call your local Dr. Dent repair...find him in the automotive services section of your yellow pages..Those guys do this on metal all the time.Ron C.Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App-Original Message-From: cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: syerd...@gmail.comSent: 2016-11-14 5:26:16 PM Subject: Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurbEvening all,This winter's theme is running rigging, and this includes dealing with the spinnaker pole, which is dented, slightly bent, and needs a new shock cord bridle.   Per recommendations here, I picked up the shock cord tools last weekend in Nova Scotia - that part is easy.  Any suggestions on how to  with the dent/bend?See photos here.http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/11/spinnaker-pole-repair.htmlThanks, Dave '85 33-2 Windstar
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___

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Stus-List spinnaker pole repair and refurb

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Evening all,

This winter's theme is running rigging, and this includes dealing with the
spinnaker pole, which is dented, slightly bent, and needs a new shock cord
bridle.   Per recommendations here, I picked up the shock cord tools last
weekend in Nova Scotia - that part is easy.  Any suggestions on how to
 with the dent/bend?

See photos here.

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/2016/11/spinnaker-pole-repair.html

Thanks, Dave '85 33-2 Windstar
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole "uphaul" ??

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

I thought everybody called it the upf**ker.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 11 December 2015 at 22:16, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Chuck,
>
> Maybe I should have used  in the response. Email message can be
> difficult to express subtleties, but I probably should have warned you
> about clarifying sailing terms here. My approval rating has been about
> 50/50 so far. 
>
> The topping lift was never just for the main boom. It was in general use
> for any spar lift at the lower portion of a sail, main, stays'l or
> spinnaker. Club footed jib excepted of course and upper spars having other
> cute names, such as peak halyard.
>
> Anyhow, these days it seems we're all correct. Most of us foredeck guys
> from the 70s & 80s would know the smallest wire & snap shackle is the
> top'n' lift, or later on to become the "pole lift".
>
> And as you say, when a foredeck mate yells at the pit for uphaul, he
> really wants the inboard end of the spinnaker pole raised. It is remarkable
> how long it can take for this simple request to be acknowledged sometimes.
> :)
>
> But don't be too hard on newbies. If their source of info is the Internet
> they get advice from Wiki such as this:
>
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> This article is about the spar. For floating barriers to control access to
> harbours and rivers, see boom (navigational barrier)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28navigational_barrier%29>.
> For other uses, see Boom
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28disambiguation%29> .
>  In sailing <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing>, a *boom* is a spar
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spar_%28sailing%29> (pole), along the foot
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_of_a_sail#The_edges> (bottom edge)
> of a fore and aft <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fore_and_aft> rigged sail
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail> , [1]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28sailing%29#cite_note-1>
> that...   *(good so far, but..)*
>
>
> The *topping lift* (more rarely known as an *uphaul*) is a line
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_%28sailing%29> which applies upward
> force on a boom <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28sailing%29> on a
> sailboat <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailboat>.
>
>
> A topping lift may also refer to a line on the front of the mast used to
> rig the spinnaker pole. It is used to trim the pole to the proper height
> when hoisting the spinnaker <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnaker>.
>
>
> Hoo boy. Where do we go from here?
>
> Cheers, Russ
> *Sweet *35 mk-1
>
>
>
>
>
> At 02:27 PM 11/12/2015, you wrote:
>
> I like to differentiate two very different animals:
> The Topping Lift" goes to the boom end.  The "Spinnaker Pole Lift"
> controls the Pole end while there is an uphaul and downhaul on the spin
> pole car on the mast, I prefer to name the mast control lines, "spin pole
> car uphaul and downhaul".
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C 34R
> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
>
> --
> *From: *"Russ & Melody via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc: *"Russ & Melody" <russ...@telus.net>
> *Sent: *Thursday, December 10, 2015 9:38:01 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole
>
>
> Do you mean the top'n' lift? :)
>
>
> At 02:25 PM 10/12/2015, you wrote:
> Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?
>
> --
> From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: "Pamela & David" <thesaltfam...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
> Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole
>
> Hello
>
> Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C?
>
> I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking
> for a quick job to replace
>
> ___
>
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole "uphaul" ??

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

That's the second call.!


At 04:50 PM 12/12/2015, you wrote:

I thought everybody called it the upf**ker.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 11 December 2015 at 22:16, Russ & Melody via 
CnC-List <<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hi Chuck,

Maybe I should have used  in the response. 
Email message can be difficult to express 
subtleties, but I probably should have warned 
you about clarifying sailing terms here. My 
approval rating has been about 50/50 so far. 


The topping lift was never just for the main 
boom. It was in general use for any spar lift at 
the lower portion of a sail, main, stays'l or 
spinnaker. Club footed jib excepted of course 
and upper spars having other cute names, such as peak halyard.


Anyhow, these days it seems we're all correct. 
Most of us foredeck guys from the 70s & 80s 
would know the smallest wire & snap shackle is 
the top'n' lift, or later on to become the "pole lift".


And as you say, when a foredeck mate yells at 
the pit for uphaul, he really wants the inboard 
end of the spinnaker pole raised. It is 
remarkable how long it can take for this simple 
request to be acknowledged sometimes.  :)


But don't be too hard on newbies. If their 
source of info is the Internet they get advice from Wiki such as this:



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the spar. For floating 
barriers to control access to harbours and 
rivers, see 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28navigational_barrier%29>boom 
(navigational barrier).
For other uses, see 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28disambiguation%29>Boom .
 In 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing>sailing, 
a boom is a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spar_%28sailing%29>spar 
(pole), along the 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_of_a_sail#The_edges>foot 
(bottom edge) of a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fore_and_aft>fore 
 and aft rigged 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail>sail 
,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28sailing%29#cite_note-1> 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28sailing%29#cite_note-1>[1] 
that...           (good so far, but..)


The topping lift (more rarely known as an 
uphaul) is a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_%28sailing%29>line 
which applies upward force on a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28sailing%29>boom 
on a <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailboat>sailboat.


A topping lift may also refer to a line on the 
front of the mast used to rig the spinnaker 
pole. It is used to trim the pole to the proper 
height when hoisting the <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnaker>spinnaker.


Hoo boy. Where do we go from here?

        Cheers, Russ
        Sweet 35 mk-1





At 02:27 PM 11/12/2015, you wrote:

I like to differentiate two very different animals:
The Topping Lift" goes to the boom end.  The 
"Spinnaker Pole Lift" controls the Pole end 
while there is an uphaul and downhaul on the 
spin pole car on the mast, I prefer to name the 
mast control lines, "spin pole car uphaul and downhaul".


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md


--
From: "Russ & Melody via CnC-List" 
<<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>cnc-list@cnc-list.com>

To: <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Russ & Melody" <<mailto:russ...@telus.net>russ...@telus.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 9:38:01 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole


Do you mean the top'n' lift? :)


At 02:25 PM 10/12/2015, you wrote:
Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?


--
From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" 
<<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>cnc-list@cnc-list.com>

To: <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Pamela & David" 
<<mailto:thesaltfam...@gmail.com>thesaltfam...@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole
Hello
Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C?
I have a tracer string inplace on a recent 
purchase boat and are looking for a quick job to replace


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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole "uphaul" ??

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Boat "ropes" are divided into categories. Two major categories are "uppy downy" 
lines and "innie outie" lines.  The thingie that holds the spinnaker stick up 
is an "uppy downie" line. Sheets are "innie outie" lines. 

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 12, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> That's the second call.!
> 
> 
> At 04:50 PM 12/12/2015, you wrote:
>> I thought everybody called it the upf**ker. 
>> 
>> Jim Watts
>> Paradigm Shift
>> C 35 Mk III
>> Victoria, BC
>> 
>> On 11 December 2015 at 22:16, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> Hi Chuck,
>> 
>> Maybe I should have used  in the response. Email message can be 
>> difficult to express subtleties, but I probably should have warned you about 
>> clarifying sailing terms here. My approval rating has been about 50/50 so 
>> far. 
>> 
>> The topping lift was never just for the main boom. It was in general use for 
>> any spar lift at the lower portion of a sail, main, stays'l or spinnaker. 
>> Club footed jib excepted of course and upper spars having other cute names, 
>> such as peak halyard.
>> 
>> Anyhow, these days it seems we're all correct. Most of us foredeck guys from 
>> the 70s & 80s would know the smallest wire & snap shackle is the top'n' 
>> lift, or later on to become the "pole lift". 
>> 
>> And as you say, when a foredeck mate yells at the pit for uphaul, he really 
>> wants the inboard end of the spinnaker pole raised. It is remarkable how 
>> long it can take for this simple request to be acknowledged sometimes.  :)
>> 
>> But don't be too hard on newbies. If their source of info is the Internet 
>> they get advice from Wiki such as this:
>> 
>>> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>>> This article is about the spar. For floating barriers to control access to 
>>> harbours and rivers, see boom (navigational barrier).
>>> For other uses, see Boom .
>>> Â In sailing, a boom is a spar (pole), along the foot (bottom edge) of a 
>>> fore and aft rigged sail , [1] that...           (good so far, 
>>> but..)
>> 
>>> The topping lift (more rarely known as an uphaul) is a line which applies 
>>> upward force on a boom on a sailboat. 
>> 
>>> A topping lift may also refer to a line on the front of the mast used to 
>>> rig the spinnaker pole. It is used to trim the pole to the proper height 
>>> when hoisting the spinnaker.
>> 
>> Hoo boy. Where do we go from here?
>> 
>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Cheers, Russ
>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Sweet 35 mk-1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:27 PM 11/12/2015, you wrote:
>>> I like to differentiate two very different animals:
>>> The Topping Lift" goes to the boom end.  The "Spinnaker Pole Lift" 
>>> controls the Pole end while there is an uphaul and downhaul on the spin 
>>> pole car on the mast, I prefer to name the mast control lines, "spin pole 
>>> car uphaul and downhaul".
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> Resolute
>>> 1990 C 34R
>>> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
>>> 
>>> From: "Russ & Melody via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Cc: "Russ & Melody" <russ...@telus.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 9:38:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Do you mean the top'n' lift? :)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 02:25 PM 10/12/2015, you wrote:
>>> Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?
>>> 
>>> From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Cc: "Pamela & David" <thesaltfam...@gmail.com >
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
>>> Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole
>>> Hello
>>> Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C?
>>> I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking 
>>> for a quick job to replace 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Email address:
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the 
>>> bottom of page at:
>>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole "uphaul" ??

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I like to differentiate two very different animals: 
The Topping Lift" goes to the boom end. The "Spinnaker Pole Lift" controls the 
Pole end while there is an uphaul and downhaul on the spin pole car on the 
mast, I prefer to name the mast control lines, "spin pole car uphaul and 
downhaul". 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Russ & Melody via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Russ & Melody" <russ...@telus.net> 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 9:38:01 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole 


Do you mean the top'n' lift? :) 


At 02:25 PM 10/12/2015, you wrote: 


Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift? 


From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Pamela & David" <thesaltfam...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole 

Hello 

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C? 

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking for a 
quick job to replace 

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole "uphaul" ??

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Chuck,

Maybe I should have used  in the response. Email message can be 
difficult to express subtleties, but I probably should have warned 
you about clarifying sailing terms here. My approval rating has been 
about 50/50 so far. 


The topping lift was never just for the main boom. It was in general 
use for any spar lift at the lower portion of a sail, main, stays'l 
or spinnaker. Club footed jib excepted of course and upper spars 
having other cute names, such as peak halyard.


Anyhow, these days it seems we're all correct. Most of us foredeck 
guys from the 70s & 80s would know the smallest wire & snap shackle 
is the top'n' lift, or later on to become the "pole lift".


And as you say, when a foredeck mate yells at the pit for uphaul, he 
really wants the inboard end of the spinnaker pole raised. It is 
remarkable how long it can take for this simple request to be 
acknowledged sometimes.  :)


But don't be too hard on newbies. If their source of info is the 
Internet they get advice from Wiki such as this:



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the spar. For floating barriers to control 
access to harbours and rivers, see 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28navigational_barrier%29>boom 
(navigational barrier).
For other uses, see 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28disambiguation%29>Boom.
 In <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing>sailing, a boom is a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spar_%28sailing%29>spar (pole), 
along the 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_of_a_sail#The_edges>foot 
(bottom edge) of a <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fore_and_aft>fore 
and aft rigged 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail>sail,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28sailing%29#cite_note-1>[1] 
that...   (good so far, but..)


The topping lift (more rarely known as an uphaul) is a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_%28sailing%29>line which 
applies upward force on a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_%28sailing%29>boom on a 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailboat>sailboat.


A topping lift may also refer to a line on the front of the mast 
used to rig the spinnaker pole. It is used to trim the pole to the 
proper height when hoisting the 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnaker>spinnaker.


Hoo boy. Where do we go from here?

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1




At 02:27 PM 11/12/2015, you wrote:

I like to differentiate two very different animals:
The Topping Lift" goes to the boom end.  The "Spinnaker Pole Lift" 
controls the Pole end while there is an uphaul and downhaul on the 
spin pole car on the mast, I prefer to name the mast control lines, 
"spin pole car uphaul and downhaul".


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md


--
From: "Russ & Melody via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Russ & Melody" <russ...@telus.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 9:38:01 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole


Do you mean the top'n' lift? :)


At 02:25 PM 10/12/2015, you wrote:
Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?


--
From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Pamela & David" <thesaltfam...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

Hello

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C?

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are 
looking for a quick job to replace


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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift? 

- Original Message -

From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Pamela & David" <thesaltfam...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole 

Hello 

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C? 

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking for a 
quick job to replace 

___ 

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Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Pamela & David via CnC-List]

Hello

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C?

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking
for a quick job to replace
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Ron Casciato via CnC-List]

Why not simply cut the tracer string in place and tie another string to it and 
pull the original one out and measure it……?  That leaves you with a 
messenger string still in place and  the correct measurement

 

Ron C.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:25 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Chuck S <cscheaf...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

 

Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?

 

  _  

From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Pamela & David" <thesaltfam...@gmail.com <mailto:thesaltfam...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

 

Hello

 

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C?

 

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are looking for a 
quick job to replace 


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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Do you mean the top'n' lift? :)


At 02:25 PM 10/12/2015, you wrote:

Do you mean the spinnaker pole lift?


--
From: "Pamela & David via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Pamela & David" <thesaltfam...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:07:55 PM
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker pole

Hello

Does anyone know the length of rope for the UPHAUL on a C?

I have a tracer string inplace on a recent purchase boat and are 
looking for a quick job to replace


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Stus-List Spinnaker pole

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

The topping lift on my C 33 MKII is 80 ft of 3/8db according to the chart, 
can't believe there'd be much difference if they're rigged similarity.
Brad
1985 C 33 MKII "PULSE"

Sent, miraculously through cyberspace, 
from my iPad!
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Turtle bags

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I have my sail maker custom make them for me.  The issue I had with some of
the standard ones was the hook and loop opening.  The hooks and loops faced
the wrong way in my opinion.   I wanted the opening to pull apart rather
than be overlapping.

Dennis C.
On Sep 9, 2015 12:46 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> All,
>
> I'd like to replace a couple spinnaker bags with the rectangular type this
> winter.  I found these:
>
>
> http://www.precisionsailloft.com/sails/sailing-accesories/product/spinnaker-turtle-bags/
>
> Any better sources?
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Turtle bags

[Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List]

Are these bags (as well as their sails) made in the USA or in Asia? I had
UK/Charleston make 3 of these (same design) for Honey. They work well but
take up a great deal of space.

Jack Fitzgerald
C 39 TM
HONEY
Savannah, GA



On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> All,
>
> I'd like to replace a couple spinnaker bags with the rectangular type this
> winter.  I found these:
>
>
> http://www.precisionsailloft.com/sails/sailing-accesories/product/spinnaker-turtle-bags/
>
> Any better sources?
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
>
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>
>
>
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