Re: [CGUYS] Windows 7 *user* reviews [Was: Office 2007]
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Richard P. wrote: > I think Asus was making some monitors which were wide than normal to > accommodate the sidebar. Don't know if they were a hit or not, or if > they still exist. > Some of the Widescreen monitors were wide for watching widescreen movies and just happened to ad screen estate for things like the side bar which was a happy accident. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] One more question...
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote: > > Win 7 may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but it's in an > early beta phase right now. This may seem somewhat conservative > to you but when I have a solid OS (and XP Pro wasn't always solid, > need I remind you) I am not going to jump ship. > Not as early as that. RC1 is due out in May if the page M$ accidentally put up Thursday for ten minutes is accurate. < http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2009/03/26/windows-7-rc-lock-down.aspx > How long out of the box is long enough? I usually wait a SP or two with M$ products to see if they can fix it up to run well. Win7 may be ripe by fall 2010. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] One more question...
> How long out of the box is long enough? I usually wait a > SP or two with M$ products to see if they can fix it up to > run well. Win7 may be ripe by fall 2010. I think it's important to note that both the development process and the beta process were quite different for Win 7 as opposed to Vista, so what was true in the past may not be true this time around. The experience of the very large group of Win 7 beta version has been entirely different from, and vastly better than, that of the Vista testers. I'm not arguing that you should instantly install Win 7 when it's available; that's your decision entirely. I am saying that your fall 2010 time frame may be too pessimistic. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: > What you can't dance around, and what not a single one of you have been able > to admit, is that if you want a 17" notebook and all you have is a thousand > bucks, you can choose between dozens of Windows laptops or zero Macs. Macintosh machines do cost more than Windows machines of the same basic physical size. But, are they equivalent? I, for one, have no problem with the fact that Macs are normally more costly than similar computers sold with the Windows OS. Macs have fewer post-sale problems that arise. Less of a need to keep the phone number of "Geeks-On-Call" handy. They have a higher resale value. I like their design. They're cool. I do graphics and Macs are better at that. Life is full of decisions as to what one is going to spend their money on. I'll spend more on a computer and less on a car than other folks. I'll spend more on a camera and less on a sofa as well. Others will get that expensive sofa and go cheap on the computer. That's okay as well. People are different from one another. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of > inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to > meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's > limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip > before she's even started. > > It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require > that the ring should cost no more than $100." Guess what? You're > getting cubic zirconia! Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] One more question...
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: > > How long out of the box is long enough? I usually wait a > > SP or two with M$ products to see if they can fix it up to > > run well. Win7 may be ripe by fall 2010. > > I think it's important to note that both the development process and the > beta process were quite different for Win 7 as opposed to Vista, so what > was > true in the past may not be true this time around. The experience of the > very large group of Win 7 beta version has been entirely different from, > and > vastly better than, that of the Vista testers. I'm more worried that WIN7 has reached the pin the old feature on the new OS stage. This is where the other units at M$ get a whack at adding back old things that mess up the OS. > > > I'm not arguing that you should instantly install Win 7 when it's > available; > that's your decision entirely. I am saying that your fall 2010 time frame > may be too pessimistic. For normal people maybe, for corporate no way. My wife just went to XP from 2000 last year at work. I live on the edge but I also think WIN7 is more like 98se was to WIN98 for Vista. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Macintosh machines do cost more than Windows machines of > the same basic physical size. Steve, congratulations on being the first to even come close to acknowledging reality. You follow it up with the inevitable "But...", yet this is a good first step in the twelve-step program for MFBs. :) > People are different from one another. This is the key sentence in your reply, I think, and a point that the Mac fans here ignore. The position appears to be that anyone who doesn't see things their way is, by definition, a moron. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] One more question...
> I'm more worried that WIN7 has reached the pin the old feature > on the new OS stage. This is where the other units at M$ get > a whack at adding back old things that mess up the OS. No, Win 7 has been feature-frozen for a long time. Nobody has added anything of any significance to it for months, nor will they be doing so before release. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] One more question...
> I'm more worried that WIN7 has reached the pin the old feature on the > new OS > stage. This is where the other units at M$ get a whack at adding back > old > things that mess up the OS. Everything I've read in statements from MS is that Win7 is feature complete. OTOH, never rule out scope creep. This is Ballmer at the helm, after all, tho' he swears Vista was all Bill's fault. It looks like Ballmer opened the first envelope already. > For normal people maybe, for corporate no way. My wife just went to XP > from > 2000 last year at work. I live on the edge but I also think WIN7 is > more > like 98se was to WIN98 for Vista. I think it's more like Win2000 to NT 4. It's a vast improvement on an existing structure, while 98SE was a minor release with no change to the kernel. Expect a Fall '09 release for Win7. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
As someone who spends 90% of computing time on W-XP, but prefers Apple (and has for my own compute time), I find your WFB rants a bit disingenuous. I don't spend near as much maintaining my OS X computer as the company spends on this W XP laptop. You just come off sounding ignorant to someone who sees plenty of both platforms. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- > Macintosh machines do cost more than Windows machines of the same > basic physical size. Steve, congratulations on being the first to even come close to acknowledging reality. You follow it up with the inevitable "But...", yet this is a good first step in the twelve-step program for MFBs. :) > People are different from one another. This is the key sentence in your reply, I think, and a point that the Mac fans here ignore. The position appears to be that anyone who doesn't see things their way is, by definition, a moron. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>The commercial had one, simple premise: if you have a budget of $1,000 and >17" laptop is your target device, you are out of luck with Apple. (That >reminds me of the old adage, "If you have to ask the price..."). No you are not. WFBs are just stuck on the old (and dumb) idea that a compact home computer should be a fat laptop. That just demonstrates a lack of imagination on the part of Windows computer manufacturers. Apple took the trouble to think the problem through and came up with a much better solution, the iMac. WFBs are just fixated that it has to be a "laptop." You need more imagination. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor >impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her >requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". You are a victim of the Microsoft reality distortion field. We have already established that: 1) Lauren is not a big woman. 2) The "laptop" she bought is 2-inches thick and weighs 8 pounds. To carry around this "laptop" is like walking around with two six packs of beer (and never drinking them). Lauren is not going to do that (unless she is pledging). What she bought is a category of laptop that is not intended to be portable. It is in fact a minature desktop. For this class of computer Apple has a better idea and it is the 20-inch iMac. If Lauren wanted to use a notebook in class the "laptop" she bought will not fit well on a typical classroom desk. And she would soon tire of carrying around a bulky 8-pound box. The iMac with the 13-inch screen would have been an ideal size for class and since it weighs less than 1 six pack it would not have been difficult to carry. Nope. Lauren made a big mistake. We have been played. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>Betty, do you think that the woman with the Swiffer actually cleans her >house with that thing? Or that it is actually her house? Or that it is a >house at all, not a stage set? For starters the Swiffer ad is not presented as being documentary. The Laptop Hunters ad rings false from the first note. This ad contains one manipulative lie after another. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>You folks have danced around this thing in every conceivable way. She's an >actress. She didn't go into the store (which you don't know). Her HP is >too heavy (it's certainly heavier than the equivalent Mac, which doesn't >exist). It's an old model (it's not). She should've gotten an iMac (to >take to class?). She should've gotten a Linux netbook. She should've >somehow gotten a $2,800 MacBook Pro with her $1,000. Her taste is >questionable... Yes thinking and analysis instead of following the party line is going to be distrubing to WFBs. That is probably why you are WFBs. I think it has been amply demonstrated that the premise and conclusion of the ad are quite false and demonstrate the stupidest sort of computer buyer. As much as you WFBs want to dance around the issues, Lauren made a big mistake. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Beta Software Warning [Was: One more question...]
>Since I am an idiot, I will respond... >Disclaimer 1: My desktop is my main machine and I would not put Win7 >beta on it. This disqualifies you from the idiot contest. You will have to try harder and but the beta on your main machine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>What you can't dance around, and what not a single one of you have been >able to admit, is that if you want a 17" notebook and all you have is a >thousand bucks, you can choose between dozens of Windows laptops or zero >Macs. Those "notebooks" are not really notebooks. They are compact desktops. Apple does make them and they are in the price range. You keep persisting with the "it has to be brown" argument. This is a false way to stack the deck. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip before she's even started. It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require that the ring should cost no more than $100." Guess what? You're getting cubic zirconia! Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer. ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> As someone who spends 90% of computing time on W-XP, but prefers Apple > (and has for my own compute time), I find your WFB rants a bit > disingenuous. I don't spend near as much maintaining my OS X computer > as the company spends on this W XP laptop. You just come off sounding > ignorant to someone who sees plenty of both platforms. Mark, it's not about preference. It's not about which is better. It's not about capabilities, maintainability, long term cost, or overall degree of shininess. In fact, it's not about opinion of any kind. Note that not one of the "WFBs" anywhere in this thread has said that Lauren's laptop is better than, say, a MacBook. What it IS about is whether or not you can get a laptop at all if you only have $1,000 to spend. I don't see why this is so difficult for McFans to understand. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] VMWare Fusion or Parallels? and RAM
>So far so good, don't jinx it with probing questions. You are no fun at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> For this class of computer Apple has a better idea and it > is the 20-inch iMac. Jeff is right, this whole thing is too funny for words. The idea of carting a 20" iMac to class or Starbucks, along with the 20-foot orange extension cord required to plug it in somewhere, well, stop it, you're killing me. I should be paying for this, it's better than Seinfeld. The only thing I can think of that might be funnier would be to watch her trying to set that thing up on her tray table on a Southwest flight to LAX. Talk about your reality distortion fields. > You keep persisting with the "it has to be brown" argument. > This is a false way to stack the deck. You keep persisting with the "it has to be shiny" argument. This is not only a false way to stack the deck, it leaves poor little Lauren with no computer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Like the Apple ads? You can spot em On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >Betty, do you think that the woman with the Swiffer actually cleans her > >house with that thing? Or that it is actually her house? Or that it is a > >house at all, not a stage set? > > For starters the Swiffer ad is not presented as being documentary. The > Laptop Hunters ad rings false from the first note. This ad contains one > manipulative lie after another. > > Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I think I've found Tom's problem. He needs to eat better, he is obviously in a very weakened state and thinks 6-7 pounds is heavy. I happen to have an HP DV series laptop...my wife uses it every day. She is able, despite her 5'1" 120lb frame to take this laptop with ease from kitchen table to desk to living room...over to a friends house..no complaints. And mine is heavier then the one in the advert as it has 2 x 120 gig HD's inside (set to RAID 1 no less). To add to that, she was a heavy mac user, doing page layout/design for several years on one. Still no complaints. The lack of intellectual honesty coming from the other side on this discussion is disheartening though expected. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >What you can't dance around, and what not a single one of you have been > >able to admit, is that if you want a 17" notebook and all you have is a > >thousand bucks, you can choose between dozens of Windows laptops or zero > >Macs. > > Those "notebooks" are not really notebooks. They are compact desktops. > Apple does make them and they are in the price range. > > You keep persisting with the "it has to be brown" argument. This is a > false way to stack the deck. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and > requirements is fundamentally unrealistic Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. No amount of "Mac is better" fattens her wallet. McFans' protest notwithstanding, there is nothing unrealistic about this. Not everyone who needs a computer can afford McPrices. The cheapest 17" Apple portable isn't just out of her price range, it's *far* out of her price range. What is fundamentally unrealistic is McFans' apparent belief that it is foolish to limit what you buy on the basis of how much money you have. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO criteria? NONE? You must be unbelievably rich. For the rest of us who have normal jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into play at some point. Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some have on this list. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner wrote: > I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements > is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself > according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from > context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs > overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, > that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low > price--well, that's just wishful thinking. > > Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of > fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake > car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one > can expect to pay a bit more. > > --Constance Warner > > > > On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: > > Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of >>> inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to >>> meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's >>> limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip >>> before she's even started. >>> >>> It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require >>> that the ring should cost no more than $100." Guess what? You're >>> getting cubic zirconia! >>> >> >> Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor >> impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her >> requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". >> >> As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal >> opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer. >> >> >> * >> ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >> ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >> * >> > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> This ad contains one manipulative lie after another. Of course, the Apple ad showing MS spending literally all of its money on marketing, that wasn't a manipulative lie at all, no no no. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> No you are not. WFBs are just stuck on the old (and dumb) idea that a > compact home computer should be a fat laptop. That just demonstrates a > lack of imagination on the part of Windows computer manufacturers. Apple > took the trouble to think the problem through and came up with a much > better solution, the iMac. WFBs are just fixated that it has to be a > "laptop." You need more imagination. You can always tell when Tom has slack in his business, as he so much more time to troll the list with his silliness. Fool me once, indeed. On the brighter side, this means more time for he and Mrs. Judge Smails to mock the poorer people at the club. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
If all MS has to offer is cheap (and only mention purchase price), then they are in more trouble than I imagined. Buy a Yugo or a Chrysler-Fiat; nobody (who advertizes) will sell you one cheaper. Wow. Are they chasing Walmart? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Mark, it's not about preference. It's not about which is better. It's not about capabilities, maintainability, long term cost, or overall degree of shininess. In fact, it's not about opinion of any kind. Note that not one of the "WFBs" anywhere in this thread has said that Lauren's laptop is better than, say, a MacBook. What it IS about is whether or not you can get a laptop at all if you only have $1,000 to spend. I don't see why this is so difficult for McFans to understand. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> As someone who spends 90% of computing time on W-XP, but prefers Apple > (and has for my own compute time), I find your WFB rants a bit > disingenuous. I don't spend near as much maintaining my OS X computer > as the company spends on this W XP laptop. You just come off sounding > ignorant to someone who sees plenty of both platforms. I can't speak for what your company does, but for my XP systems, I patch once per month for MS patches and then on an as needed basis for 3rd party app patches. Beyond that, I don't need to do much at all. The nice thing is that I can do all this centrally, whereas with my Macs I have to visit every machine individually to patch it. That's about 10x as much time per machine for me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FW: How secure is Verizon central if I put my forma
I have been thinking about how much information about myself to Put on the internet, I wanted know if any who as put their resume Online had any problems, with ID thieves or any problems. I wanted List my ability and how I over came and solved problems in accounting, Computer, patent law, tax law, without listing my place of employment Or date or address. -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 7:42 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] FW: How secure is Verizon central if I put my forma >What secure info are you talking about? Perhaps he is asking if somebody could hack his web page to make his resume look bad? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
If Lady Shopright has only $1K to buy a computer with, and economy is her SOLE AND MAJOR consideration, she can get a refurb Mac laptop for less--probably a 17" to boot. When making a purchasing decision, there is always a balancing of factors. If Lady Shopright insists on 17", laptop instead of desktop, absolutely the latest model, all the bells and whistles, no compromises here, then she has probably priced herself out of the Mac market. The unrealistic--and ultimately deceptive--element in this little skit is that she ever SERIOUSLY considered a Mac in the first place. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. No amount of "Mac is better" fattens her wallet. McFans' protest notwithstanding, there is nothing unrealistic about this. Not everyone who needs a computer can afford McPrices. The cheapest 17" Apple portable isn't just out of her price range, it's *far* out of her price range. What is fundamentally unrealistic is McFans' apparent belief that it is foolish to limit what you buy on the basis of how much money you have. ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Obviously I'm not saying that I or anyone else should have ZERO criteria when shopping. What I am saying is that if you demand EVERYTHING you want at a totally unrealistic price, you're going to be disappointed. And as for "money is no object": my first Mac laptop, for which I waited MANY years, was a used Clamshell with a total value of $25. I used it gratefully for years. My next laptop was another used one, with a slightly damaged screen. I didn't have the screen fixed--it would have cost far too much--but the computer did everything I needed, and I could even do graphics on it, since the screen blemish was slight. You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac. But to demand the LATEST model, 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price? THAT'S unrealistic. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, mike wrote: Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO criteria? NONE? You must be unbelievably rich. For the rest of us who have normal jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into play at some point. Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some have on this list. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip before she's even started. It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require that the ring should cost no more than $100." Guess what? You're getting cubic zirconia! Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
My company follows all of the mandatory MS patches, which come out a little over one a month and push them down to desktops and servers. My experience with Macs in corporate world was with power-users (all engineers) who did our own patching. An administrator would notify us of patches and we'd let him know when we were done. Might not work in windows world, or with newby/novice users, but that worked well for us. Of course, most of us must self-administer our home computers. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I can't speak for what your company does, but for my XP systems, I patch once per month for MS patches and then on an as needed basis for 3rd party app patches. Beyond that, I don't need to do much at all. The nice thing is that I can do all this centrally, whereas with my Macs I have to visit every machine individually to patch it. That's about 10x as much time per machine for me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: > My company follows all of the mandatory MS patches, which come out a > little over one a month and push them down to desktops and servers. > > My experience with Macs in corporate world was with power-users (all > engineers) who did our own patching. An administrator would notify us > of patches and we'd let him know when we were done. Might not work in > windows world, or with newby/novice users, but that worked well for us. > > Of course, most of us must self-administer our home computers. I learned long ago to not count on staff doing your work for you. That's the easiest way to get burned. If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with "Did you read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?", I could retire early. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop
I've been using Macs since 1988 - ever since going up to the counter of the little computer store and telling them that I figured out just fine the computer with the folders and tiny pictures of pages on the screen but that the other computer with the black screen and the green letters seemed to be broken since it didn't seem to really do anything. I've listened to the old Computer guys radio show and snickered at the appropriate places when Tom P smugly opined that all would be right in the callers' world if only they owned a Mac. I've sneered at the various to and fro discussions about Macs versus PeeCees on this list for years but this thread has done it for me. I'm ready to put gaff tape over all of the Apple logos on every computer I own. I'm ready to send an award to the advertising agency that created this infamous advert. It gets an A++ for effectiveness even if it never sells a single extra copy of Windows. It made the Mac users on this list and probably elsewhere on the net look like absolute idiots for their frothing at the mouth response to the advertisement. Well done Microsoft! I'm glad I get the digest version of the list. I think I'd have to stop collecting my email otherwise. At 9:45 AM -0400 3/30/09, Tom Piwowar wrote: Yes thinking and analysis instead of following the party line is going to be distrubing to WFBs. That is probably why you are WFBs. I think it has been amply demonstrated that the premise and conclusion of the ad are quite false and demonstrate the stupidest sort of computer buyer. As much as you WFBs want to dance around the issues, Lauren made a big mistake. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
MS doesn't offer laptops. They offer an operating system that runs on low end laptops (and, in addition, midrange and high end). Apple offers an OS and hardware only in the midrange and high end. Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: If all MS has to offer is cheap (and only mention purchase price), then they are in more trouble than I imagined. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Not cool enough
"From: "Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)" To: Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:24:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] If all MS has to offer is cheap (and only mention purchase price), then they are in more trouble than I imagined. Buy a Yugo or a Chrysler-Fiat; nobody (who advertizes) will sell you one cheaper. Wow. Are they chasing Walmart?" Actually, a more apt comparison might be between a Scion and a BMW. I love my mother-in-law's BMW, but I can't afford one. You can tell me all you want that a BMW is better; I still can't afford one. So, I have a Scion. Beats walking. Besides BMW...oops, I mean Apple...doesn't make a tablet pc, which is what this professor and his two student daughters use. Jeff Myers * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> If all MS has to offer is cheap (and only mention purchase price), then > they are in more trouble than I imagined. > > Buy a Yugo or a Chrysler-Fiat; nobody (who advertizes) will sell you one > cheaper. Wow. Are they chasing Walmart? I take it that the Mac camp is OK with being seen as elitist snobs? More so than already, I mean. It's getting much easier to imagine certain people speaking through teeth clenched around a cigarette holder and contemplating watering down the cheap scotch that the help has been getting into. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> I learned long ago to not count on staff doing your work for you. That's the easiest way to get burned. We had the seniority to tell the administrator what his priorities were; we defined his job and had him document any new processes we hadn't already documented as we set things up. > If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with "Did you read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?", I could retire early. We might have retired you early if you came to us as an administrator with that attitude, and you'd be looking for those quarters still. Mark * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware). You are very astute. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- MS doesn't offer laptops. They offer an operating system that runs on low end laptops (and, in addition, midrange and high end). Apple offers an OS and hardware only in the midrange and high end. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Now you get the point of the commercial! She couldn't seriously consider a Mac, as there were zero options, given her budget and requirements. She obviously didn't know that, else why would she have traveled to the Apple Store. So she must have learned that fact there, hence the short visit. That's the message MS is delivering in the commercial. Nothing deceptive about that. You may argue that MS stacked the deck by limiting her budget to $1000, or her need for a 17" screen, but many laptop shoppers want 17" and under $1000, preferably closer to $750. What would be deceptive would be if MS claims their OS is better than the Mac OS. I am in no way defending MS, only the (il)logic in the arguments against this commercial. Constance Warner wrote: The unrealistic--and ultimately deceptive--element in this little skit is that she ever SERIOUSLY considered a Mac in the first place. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. No amount of "Mac is better" fattens her wallet. McFans' protest notwithstanding, there is nothing unrealistic about this. Not everyone who needs a computer can afford McPrices. The cheapest 17" Apple portable isn't just out of her price range, it's *far* out of her price range. What is fundamentally unrealistic is McFans' apparent belief that it is foolish to limit what you buy on the basis of how much money you have. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That's right: MS can only brag about low-priced combos of their OS running on cheap hardware. They are down to that, nothing else left, except maybe sucks a little less than what we have out now? So, if I order anything other than the cheapest thing on the menu, I am _elitist_? What kind of warped logic is that? Are you getting desperate? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I take it that the Mac camp is OK with being seen as elitist snobs? More so than already, I mean. It's getting much easier to imagine certain people speaking through teeth clenched around a cigarette holder and contemplating watering down the cheap scotch that the help has been getting into. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 11:59 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: with my Macs I have to visit every machine individually to patch it. That's about 10x as much time per machine for me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> We had the seniority to tell the administrator what his priorities were; > we defined his job and had him document any new processes we hadn't > already documented as we set things up. > >> If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with "Did you > read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?", I could > retire early. > > We might have retired you early if you came to us as an administrator > with that attitude, and you'd be looking for those quarters still. I suspect you work in a very different environment than I do. Fortunately, I work for more level-headed people who expect me to understand their business and provide the business tools needed, while protecting business assets from the users' whims. This place was self-administered when I got here and was a raging mess. I was brought in to bring order to their chaos. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Oh, a factory or business shop full of idiots who know very little, making you look the quintessential fountain of knowledge. Any system can be set up to run successfully, if anyone bother to set it up. I suppose you must now judge no group capable of administering their own computers. Jeff, if the only restaurant you've ever eaten is a cheap hash-house, perhaps I shouldn't expect your culinary dreams to get but so high? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- > We had the seniority to tell the administrator what his priorities > were; we defined his job and had him document any new processes we > hadn't already documented as we set things up. > >> If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with "Did you > read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?", I could > retire early. > > We might have retired you early if you came to us as an administrator > with that attitude, and you'd be looking for those quarters still. I suspect you work in a very different environment than I do. Fortunately, I work for more level-headed people who expect me to understand their business and provide the business tools needed, while protecting business assets from the users' whims. This place was self-administered when I got here and was a raging mess. I was brought in to bring order to their chaos. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go shopping. Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do you spend without a list versus with a list. When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list. (4 door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, power windows etc.) If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget or I revise my needs list. Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to you because you will take what they tell you, you need. By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is foreign. It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic car or I am not buying it. I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not Japanese. (I am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars sold are multi national cars. I have just been bitten by repair facilities over charging for fixing foreign cars.) Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of the equation. The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad, that is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.) was that you could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00. That was the main point they wanted to make. All sorts of assumptions have been made on what they were trying to say. But you know what they say about assumptions. :-) Stewart At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. --Constance Warner Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Again, changing the facts won't win your argument. She got what she wanted, for the price she wanted...just because your irritated it wasn't a mac doesn't mean she didn't. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Constance Warner wrote: > > > You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac. But to demand the LATEST model, > 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price? THAT'S unrealistic. > > --Constance Warner > > > > On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, mike wrote: > > Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO criteria? >> NONE? You must be unbelievably rich. For the rest of us who have normal >> jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into play at >> some point. >> >> Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some have on >> this list. >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner >> wrote: >> >> I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and >>> requirements >>> is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself >>> according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which >>> from >>> context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs >>> overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, >>> well, >>> that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low >>> price--well, that's just wishful thinking. >>> >>> Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot >>> of >>> fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake >>> car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which >>> one >>> can expect to pay a bit more. >>> >>> --Constance Warner >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: >>> >>> Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of >>> inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to > meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's > limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip > before she's even started. > > It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require > that the ring should cost no more than $100." Guess what? You're > getting cubic zirconia! > > Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * >>> >>> * >>> ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >>> ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >>> * >>> >>> >> >> * >> ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >> ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >> * >> > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Ah, now we get to it...anyone not running Apple hardware is, let me get this right...scum sucking bottom feeders, or is it anyone not running Apple hardware *likes* scum sucking bottom feeder hardware? I can't tell exactly how you were insulting anyone without macs. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) < mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote: > No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much > cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware). > > You are very astute. > > Thank you, > > Mark Snyder > -Original Message- > > MS doesn't offer laptops. They offer an operating system that runs on > low end laptops (and, in addition, midrange and high end). Apple offers > an OS and hardware only in the midrange and high end. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> So, if I order anything other than the cheapest thing on the menu, I am > _elitist_? Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. > What kind of warped logic is that? Are you getting > desperate? I don't think that I'm the one who has been showing desparation on this topic. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. I fully understand that, but we don't have enough Macs on the network to justify the cost at this point. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Constance I can go to Wal-Marts site right now and buy a Dell Studio 17" laptop which is their latest model and available for under $1K. And yes I do know Dells and own three of them right now. I have found them to be virtually problem free. Stewart At 11:23 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote: You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac. But to demand the LATEST model, 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price? THAT'S unrealistic. --Constance Warner Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Speaking only for myself I start with a list of: 1. What capabilities I need. 2. What capabilities I want. 3. What capabilities would be nice. Then I figure out what it costs to get first 1, then to add on 2, then to add on 3. Only at that point do I decide what I am willing to spend to get those things and if there is a match. New vs. used is way down near the bottom of 3. I would say that in the MS add, *NEW* and *SHINY* were at the top of the list. Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go shopping. Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do you spend without a list versus with a list. When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list. (4 door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, power windows etc.) If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget or I revise my needs list. Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to you because you will take what they tell you, you need. By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is foreign. It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic car or I am not buying it. I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not Japanese. (I am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars sold are multi national cars. I have just been bitten by repair facilities over charging for fixing foreign cars.) Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of the equation. The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad, that is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.) was that you could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00. That was the main point they wanted to make. All sorts of assumptions have been made on what they were trying to say. But you know what they say about assumptions. :-) Stewart At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. --Constance Warner Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop
> I've been using Macs since 1988 > > I'm ready to put gaff tape over all of the Apple logos on every > computer I own. I'm ready to send an award to the advertising agency > that created this infamous advert. It gets an A++ for effectiveness > even if it never sells a single extra copy of Windows. It made the > Mac users on this list and probably elsewhere on the net look like > absolute idiots for their frothing at the mouth response to the > advertisement. Well done Microsoft! Bravo. This comes as close as I think anyone will to the response I had been hoping for: "I think the Mac OS is much better than Windows, and it seems a shame that Apple can't or won't find a way to make a portable box for it that more people can afford." That's really all that was necessary. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That can be a self fulfilling limitation though - the TCO appears high because of the labor, limiting the number management will purchase, with the limited number being used to justify not buying the one unit and application that would lower the TCO ... Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. I fully understand that, but we don't have enough Macs on the network to justify the cost at this point. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Oh, a factory or business shop full of idiots who know very little, > making you look the quintessential fountain of knowledge. Actually, yes. That's my job; to be the resident IT expert. I also believe in the division of labor, so that we get the highest return on investment in staff. We have people who do marketing and others who do HR. Strangely, I don't have the slightest impulse to arrogantly presume that I know how to do their job, nor do I try. > Any system can be set up to run successfully, if anyone bother to set it > up. I suppose you must now judge no group capable of administering > their own computers. I never said that. My experience, however, has taught to not depend on staff to do the job of IT. Yours has obviously been different than mine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That is strange but I think I preached on part of this topic yesterday! :-) Stewart At 01:39 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: > So, if I order anything other than the cheapest thing on the menu, I am > _elitist_? Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> That can be a self fulfilling limitation though - the TCO appears high > because of the labor, limiting the number management will purchase, with the > limited number being used to justify not buying the one unit and application > that would lower the TCO ... Matthew - Yes I do know this already. I have no desire to spend my time manually patching systems. However, we would have to abandon sunk costs in a system that serves us well on 95% of our computers and purchse one that services both PCs and Macs, or invest in a separate system just for the Macs. Neither are in my budget. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop
> Subject: Re: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop Seconded! > > I'm glad I get the digest version of the list. I think I'd have to > stop collecting my email otherwise. Agreed! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] The IT dilemma (was not cool enough)
Having worked hardware support many eons ago, The biggest problem with getting things to work is not those who do not know what they are doing, but working with the individual who assumes they know everything. The toughest problems we had in support was with the Doctors and staff who "knew" how to do things, and then we had to go in and fix it. (It would eat up our time as they would really hose things as they "knew" what they were doing.) Had the same argument with my son this past weekend. He just returned from Army AIT communications school as a communications network specialist. Kept gripping about how badly his system was running how it was a piece of trash and you know the drill. Well when he went to work on Friday we got his laptop and I installed two clean up programs (anti-malware and super anti spyware) and cleaned up his system. Yesterday he apologized to me and said his system was running much better. I again (for the umpteenth time) warned him on visiting sites he likes to go to for Anime and crap he likes. I have since gotten some better sites from a friend for him to visit. Stewart At 01:47 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: Actually, yes. That's my job; to be the resident IT expert. I also believe in the division of labor, so that we get the highest return on investment in staff. We have people who do marketing and others who do HR. Strangely, I don't have the slightest impulse to arrogantly presume that I know how to do their job, nor do I try. > Any system can be set up to run successfully, if anyone bother to set it > up. I suppose you must now judge no group capable of administering > their own computers. I never said that. My experience, however, has taught to not depend on staff to do the job of IT. Yours has obviously been different than mine. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Rev...they aren't *macs*, they are crap...bottom feeder hardware..oh wait I mean scum sucking bottom feeder hardware. At least to our friends on the other side. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall < popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Constance I can go to Wal-Marts site right now and buy a Dell Studio 17" > laptop which is their latest model and available for under $1K. > > And yes I do know Dells and own three of them right now. I have found > them to be virtually problem free. > > Stewart > > > At 11:23 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote: > >> You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac. But to demand the LATEST >> model, 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price? THAT'S unrealistic. >> >> --Constance Warner >> > > Rev. Stewart A. Marshall > mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net > Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org > Ozark, AL SL 82 > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
:-) Stewart At 02:19 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: Rev...they aren't *macs*, they are crap...bottom feeder hardware..oh wait I mean scum sucking bottom feeder hardware. At least to our friends on the other side. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] The IT dilemma (was not cool enough)
> Having worked hardware support many eons ago, The biggest problem with > getting things to work is not those who do not know what they are doing, but > working with the individual who assumes they know everything. Yeah, there is that too. Our CEO came from a smaller organization where they outsourced their IT support and they did all sorts of half-assed things to get his stuff to work. It worked, but hoo-boy, were they either poorly designed or insecure (or both). He only wanted the sausage and none of the sausage making, and he got it. It took a couple weeks of patient explanation and demonstration to show his that we accomplish the same things he had at his last company, but where it's done without opening up the network and/or his information up to greater risk or incur greater costs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Recommendations for professional font manager for OS X?
Can anyone recommend an OS X font manager that would be appropriate for a graphics designer (Tiger system soon to be upgraded to Leopard) and is as trouble free as possible? I see from googling around that Extensis Fusion might be a contender... db * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] The IT dilemma (was not cool enough)
Kept gripping about how badly his system was running how it was a piece of trash and you know the drill. Well when he went to work on Friday we got his laptop and I installed two clean up programs (anti-malware and super anti spyware) and cleaned up his system. Hi ... Would you be kind enough to share the names of the anti-malware and super anti-spyware programs you used? And, if not those very ones, is there a free (or very reasonably priced) one that you would recommend? My 3-year-old PCrunning Windows XP Media Center is VERY slow! Thanks in advance! Gail Miller * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] The IT dilemma (was not cool enough)
Install the Free AVAST antivirus software (be sure to uninstall what you have now first). It has malware and spyware protection... db Gail.Miller wrote: Kept gripping about how badly his system was running how it was a piece of trash and you know the drill. Well when he went to work on Friday we got his laptop and I installed two clean up programs (anti-malware and super anti spyware) and cleaned up his system. Hi ... Would you be kind enough to share the names of the anti-malware and super anti-spyware programs you used? And, if not those very ones, is there a free (or very reasonably priced) one that you would recommend? My 3-year-old PCrunning Windows XP Media Center is VERY slow! Thanks in advance! Gail Miller * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] The IT dilemma (was not cool enough)
As well as rootkit. I was using AVG free till it stopped doing full protection for free users. Avast is a good solution for home users. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:14 PM, db wrote: > Install the Free AVAST antivirus software (be sure to uninstall what you > have now first). It has malware and spyware protection... > > db > > > Gail.Miller wrote: > >> Kept gripping about how badly his system was >> >>> running how it was a piece of trash and you know the drill. Well when he >>> went to work on Friday we got his laptop and I installed two clean up >>> programs (anti-malware and super anti spyware) and cleaned up his system. >>> >>> >> Hi ... >> Would you be kind enough to share the names of the anti-malware and super >> anti-spyware programs you used? And, if not those very ones, is there a free >> (or very reasonably priced) one that you would recommend? My 3-year-old >> PCrunning Windows XP Media Center is VERY slow! >> Thanks in advance! Gail Miller >> >> * >> ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >> ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >> * >> >> > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] The IT dilemma (was not cool enough)
Malwarebytes Anti-Malware Super Antispyware Plus I do recommend Avast as a good basic anti-virus program. Stewart At 03:07 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: Kept gripping about how badly his system was running how it was a piece of trash and you know the drill. Well when he went to work on Friday we got his laptop and I installed two clean up programs (anti-malware and super anti spyware) and cleaned up his system. Hi ... Would you be kind enough to share the names of the anti-malware and super anti-spyware programs you used? And, if not those very ones, is there a free (or very reasonably priced) one that you would recommend? My 3-year-old PCrunning Windows XP Media Center is VERY slow! Thanks in advance! Gail Miller * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice >but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. This is pointless name calling. The Mac is the cheap seats. The Mac would come with the iWork productivity suite and iLife media suite. All excellent programs. And no need for anti-virus software. She bought a laptop loaded with 30-day demos of the software she needs. What is she going to do after 30 days as she is confronted with all those pop-up windows demanding payment for continued use? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Speaking only for myself I start with a list of: > >1. What capabilities I need. >2. What capabilities I want. >3. What capabilities would be nice. That is exactly the point. You don't start off saying I need a "laptop." You start with capabilities and needs. You say "I need a small, light computer I can carry around." Then when you are presented with an 8-pound "laptop" you say "No, no, no." Or you say "I need a compact one-piece computer that won't clutter my house with computer hardware." For that need an 8-pound "laptop" may be just fine. The 20-inch iMac would also be fine. My point is that saying it must be a laptop makes as much sense as saying your MP3 player must be brown. It artificially limits your choices and causes you to buy the wrong thing. P.S. Today Apple's online store is offering a 20-inch iMac on clearence for $999. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Download Open Office? :-) Donna In a message dated 3/30/2009 8:11:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, t...@tjpa.com writes: >Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice >but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. This is pointless name calling. The Mac is the cheap seats. The Mac would come with the iWork productivity suite and iLife media suite. All excellent programs. And no need for anti-virus software. She bought a laptop loaded with 30-day demos of the software she needs. What is she going to do after 30 days as she is confronted with all those pop-up windows demanding payment for continued use? **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. >I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go >shopping. Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do >you spend without a list versus with a list. Do you go shopping for a steak dinner with a $2 budget, buy salt and pepper, then expect the steak to show up on its own? Without considering the total cost you are being very unrealistic. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> This is pointless name calling. The Mac is the cheap seats. The Mac > would > come with the iWork productivity suite and iLife media suite. All > excellent programs. That's called "competing," and that's good. Apple is trying to create value for their customers and I won't criticize them for that. Gosh, I wonder what would happen if MS bundled a productivity suite with their OS? I wonder > And no need for anti-virus software. Which only makes Windows harder to hack, at least according to the man who pwned the Mac in less than 2 minutes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> Or you say "I need a compact one-piece computer that won't clutter my > house with computer hardware." For that need an 8-pound "laptop" may be > just fine. The 20-inch iMac would also be fine. > > My point is that saying it must be a laptop makes as much sense as > saying > your MP3 player must be brown. It artificially limits your choices and > causes you to buy the wrong thing. Dance, monkey boy, dance. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Now you get the point of the commercial! She couldn't seriously consider >a Mac, as there were zero options, given her budget and requirements. Now you don't get the point. The requirements were artificially contrived to exclude a very good and appropriate computer that Apple does make that competes with the 8-pound laptop. The Apple offering even comes with a bigger screen and a full set of software. The $999 20-inch iMac is what she should have bought. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>I think I've found Tom's problem. He needs to eat better, he is obviously >in a very weakened state and thinks 6-7 pounds is heavy. I challenge you to start the day with 2 six-packs under you arm and carry them whereever you go (no you can't drink the contents). This is just another example of the ridiculous lengths that WFBs will take to insist that the computer in the commercial is something that it is not. >I happen to have an HP DV series laptop...my wife uses it every day. She >is able, despite her 5'1" 120lb frame to take this laptop with ease from >kitchen table to desk to living room And she could move an iMac that distance just as well. What's your point? >mine is heavier then the one in the advert as it has 2 x 120 gig HD's >inside (set to RAID 1 no less). You did not say that you tote it around all day long. Keeping it in the trunk of your car doesn't count. Do you carry it around all day long? >The lack of intellectual honesty coming from the other side on this >discussion is disheartening though expected. You are the one who are not being honest. Nobody, but a weightlifter, carries around a "laptop" that is that bulky and that heavy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go shopping. Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do you spend without a list versus with a list. When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list. (4 door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, power windows etc.)... I also have a strict budget and a list or two. I also prefer to buy high quality products that perform well and will last. That's why I'll buy an expensive tailored coat instead of one that's produced with style but without careful attention to detail and quality. Same for transportation, home, and computers. The 24" iMac was too expensive for my budget so I saved up until I could pay cash. Same for our new car. Same for the MacBook. I'm happy that I bought the used G5 for my husband, too. I don't buy things that I can't afford. I'm patient. I can wait to buy quality, even when I know it costs more than the other brands. It's worth it for TCO. I'm worth it. Why do we have 3 PCs--two notebooks, one desktop? #1-Free after rebates, #2-$50 after discount and rebates, #3-free 3-year-old discard. They have their uses, but are secondary. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. 20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on the home page. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Can walk into a store and buy it off the shelf? Donna In a message dated 3/30/2009 8:43:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, t...@tjpa.com writes: >Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. 20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on the home page. **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>What it IS about is whether or not you can get a laptop at all if you only >have $1,000 to spend. I don't see why this is so difficult for McFans to >understand. An 8-pound "laptop" is a laptop in name only. If you are going to stretch to call that a laptop then I could stretch things too and claim that the iMac could lay flat on your lap and is therefore a laptop too. In fact neither one functions like a true laptop. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Yeah it is called chopped steak! Stewart At 07:23 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: >Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. >I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go >shopping. Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do >you spend without a list versus with a list. Do you go shopping for a steak dinner with a $2 budget, buy salt and pepper, then expect the steak to show up on its own? Without considering the total cost you are being very unrealistic. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> >Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. > > 20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on the home > page. You really just don't seem to get that you can't take your iMac to class or on a plane, do you? Is it THAT difficult a concept? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> You are the one who are not being honest. Nobody, but a weightlifter, > carries around a "laptop" that is that bulky and that heavy. This rather skirts the fact that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of not-weightlifters do this every day, don't it? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 02:05:09 -0400, Constance Warner wrote: >Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of >inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to >meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's >limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip >before she's even started. Okay, really. It's a *Microsoft* commercial. It may not be very good, and she could have bought a better computer, but if she actually *bought* a Mac, it would make the Seinfeld/Gates commercial look like shear genius! Why do the cool people think it should have any other outcome. Now, if Apple wants to run a commercial where someone is looking for a PC and is sold on the Mac's features and buys one. . .fine! It's really unrealistic to expect Microsoft to pay for an Apple commercial. -- R:\katan Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> >Speaking only for myself I start with a list of: > > > >1. What capabilities I need. > >2. What capabilities I want. > >3. What capabilities would be nice. > > That is exactly the point. You don't start off saying I need a > "laptop." You start with capabilities and needs. Yes, and if your needs include taking your computer to class or on the road, the very first conclusion one might reach is "iMac is not the solution". Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides: - I need to take my computer to class. - I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard. - I can afford $1,000 and no more. Less would be real nice. We're all waiting. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Speaking only for myself I start with a list of: 1. What capabilities I need. 2. What capabilities I want. 3. What capabilities would be nice. That is exactly the point. You don't start off saying I need a "laptop." You start with capabilities and needs. Yes, and if your needs include taking your computer to class or on the road, the very first conclusion one might reach is "iMac is not the solution". Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides: - I need to take my computer to class. Refurbished Macbook - $849 - I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard. Not in class you don't. At home you use a real keyboard and any of a number of inexpensive flat panel monitors. - I can afford $1,000 and no more. Less would be real nice. We're all waiting. There you go - you get a solid reliable highly portable machine, and at home you have an even larger screen and a full keyboard. Matthew * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Tom, read the subject line! Tom Piwowar wrote: Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. 20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on the home page. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dino Dai Zovi [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:30:57 -0400, Tom Piwowar wrote: >http://daringfireball.net/2007/04/interview_dino_dai_zovi > >He did not break in until the second round, when the original rules had >been relaxed. > >"Two minutes" is meaningless. The exploit was a JavaScript hole in >QuickTime triggered by a web page he had prepared. The question is why >did it take him all of two minutes to type in a URL? Got anything more recent than two years old? We did this one. . .two years ago. -- R:\katan Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:46:08 -0400, Chris Dunford wrote: >> >Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides: >> >> You forgot to insist that it must be brown. > >What a silly, meaningless response this is. I have this image of Tom sitting at home being deliberately obtuse, seeing how much shit he can stir up on this list. It's really not worth it to play his games. -- R:\katan Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] PC to Mac printing
PC: Acer 2.8 quad core, Vista premium Mac: iMac 2.4 dual core OSX 10.5.6 Printer: Epson R800 (connected to iMac) I think I've checked all the appropriate boxes, allowed all the appropriate permissions, I've tried Bonjour, I've turned off both firewalls. And yet I still can't print from my PC to my Mac's printer. I've googled this and read at least 50 articles and nothing seems to work. Is it possible to print from a PC to a Mac wirelessly (Airport Extreme N)? I can print the other way (Mac to PC) without difficulty. Please help. Nick Crettier Front Royal VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Now, if Apple wants to run a commercial where someone is looking for a >PC and is sold on the Mac's features and buys one. . .fine! It's really >unrealistic to expect Microsoft to pay for an Apple commercial. I don't expect them to. I do expect them to make a better case for getting a PC. What is so much fun about this commercial is the huge number of things that are wrong with it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Can walk into a store and buy it off the shelf? Don't try this at Giant or Safeway. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>You really just don't seem to get that you can't take your iMac to class or >on a plane, do you? Is it THAT difficult a concept? You really just don't seem to get that carrying around an 8-pound big and bulky is a misery. Even more miserable than using Vista. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Yeah it is called chopped steak! Extra Value Meal? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides: You forgot to insist that it must be brown. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Dino Dai Zovi [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>Which only makes Windows harder to hack, at least according to the man who >pwned the Mac in less than 2 minutes. More dishonest propaganda from the WFBs. http://daringfireball.net/2007/04/interview_dino_dai_zovi He did not break in until the second round, when the original rules had been relaxed. "Two minutes" is meaningless. The exploit was a JavaScript hole in QuickTime triggered by a web page he had prepared. The question is why did it take him all of two minutes to type in a URL? Dino's "primary", "secondary", and "tertiary" computer of choice is a Mac with OS X. He is a big Apple fan. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>This rather skirts the fact that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of >not-weightlifters do this every day, don't it? I used to carry around a big, bulky, heavy terminal. I know first hand how miserable it is. People do it because they have to. Buying such an albatross is nothing to crow about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
She wanted a LAPTOP!!! Do you not understand that some people need a machine they can use in the classroom, or on a plane, or working from their hotel room when traveling. Surely you are not ignorant of the many reasons for the use of a laptop. Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one? Tom Piwowar wrote: Now you get the point of the commercial! She couldn't seriously consider a Mac, as there were zero options, given her budget and requirements. Now you don't get the point. The requirements were artificially contrived to exclude a very good and appropriate computer that Apple does make that competes with the 8-pound laptop. The Apple offering even comes with a bigger screen and a full set of software. The $999 20-inch iMac is what she should have bought. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. Since Microsoft bought the computer for her she now has $1000 and a computer. This guy will GIVE her a 17" screen G4 Macbook. http://i.gizmodo.com/5187031/lauren-we-have-someone-whod-like-to-talk-to-you If she sells the one Microsoft bought her for $400, she now has $1400 and a G4 Macbook. Not too shabby. She could put the $1400 in a Roth IRA. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dino Dai Zovi [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Here Thomas, this one is from this century, and actually relevant: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pwn2own-mac-hack,2254.html It turns out that Miller, a Mac user, says what we PC Weenies have been saying all along: you rob banks because that's where the money is (oh, and Macs are safer through obscurity): "Between Mac and PC, I'd say that Macs are less secure for the reasons we've discussed here (lack of anti-exploitation technologies) but are more safe because there simply isn't much malware out there. For now, I'd still recommend Macs for typical users as the odds of something targeting them are so low that they might go years without seeing any malware, even though if an attacker cared to target them it would be easier for them." My favorite part? About the economics of hacking. Turns out, hacking a Mac isn't worth all that much, contrary to what we've always been told on this list: " Charlie: Right. That is true at Pwn2Own partially too. Mac bugs aren't really valuable, but while $5,000 is a lot of money, it's really not that much when you consider what a bad guy could make with an exploit for an unknown vulnerability in, say, IE 8 running on Vista. The one thing other contests do test that Pwn2Own doesn't is speed. I could have written my exploit in a day or a week or even a month. At other contests, you have to be ready to go non-stop for three days or whatever. I really never work more than eight hours a day." > >Which only makes Windows harder to hack, at least according to the man > who > >pwned the Mac in less than 2 minutes. > > More dishonest propaganda from the WFBs. > > http://daringfireball.net/2007/04/interview_dino_dai_zovi * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
