Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Thu, 2003-06-19 at 06:44, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: MEISCH,CORY (HP-Vancouver,ex1) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Without getting too many feathers ruffled, it does seem to me that enhancement requests seem to fall on deaf ears. I have tried other distros and Mandrake is the best, so I'm willing to give my time, talent, and opinion on the matter. The solution is never go find another distribution. The idea of showing what is already installed or can be installed/upgraded would be very nice, ala SuSE Yast. Again, I want to state that I do agree that for advanced users, I do understand old rpmdrake is better. And, please remember, first rpmdrake, written in Perl by pixel, was much more simple than old rpmdrake. I think old rpmdrake was like that, because it was designed with advanced users in mind, and it followed (nice) solutions from advanced/cooker/etc users. New rpmdrake was designed following our belief (motivated by several user experiences and us trying to think hard what beginners would experience) that old rpmdrake was frightening and beginners had a hard time understanding the GUI at first sight. We decided that each tool needs to stay simple, do one thing and do it well, to be suitable for beginners. We also decided that DrakX approach was better (show dependencies when selecting package, not after install button is clicked). I think current rpmdrake is good for beginners, old one was too complicated for beginners. I understand this is frustrating for many advanced users, though a part of the rationale is also that most advanced users will tend to prefer urpmi. I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on these points, these last three paragraphs have done much to confirm what I already had gleaned from other indirect sources, which is important, since this verifies from the source. Or I should say, an authoritative source. I also appreciate the time you have taken in this thread to speak to these problems. I understand that every moment that you spend writing to the list are moments that you are either not developing or devoting to personal time. I have been one of those that has preached on your behalf in the past (i.e., on behalf of all employed developers), believe it or not. It is pretty well perceived by the general population, from what I see, that rpmdrake was redesigned for beginners. The fact that the decision had a rationale or the fact that the decision was acted on are not facts that are in dispute. The dispute comes in with the total disconnect that existed between the users (paying or nonpaying) and a decision that directly involved them all. A user interface is by it's very nature a public interface, a means by which the public at large has a window into the operating system. Therefore by that definition it should be the public at large that has the *most relevant* input and decision making powers concerning the user interfaces. Mandrakesoft, to it's credit, has put a smorgasbord of methods by which users can voice their preferences. Mandrakesoft, to it's discredit, has failed in this case to exploit those resources which it itself has put into place, which are as follows: Expert mailing listnewbie mailing listMandrakeclub opinion surveysand the Mandrakeclub rpm voting polls. I purposely exclude the cooker mailing list because it is the sole *public* resource that was used by Mandrakesoft in this case. The greater discredit in this is that the cooker mailing list was the one resource that beginners or new users were most likely *not* to be using as a feedback tool. Which may or may not have been part of the flawed strategy utilized in order to replace the beginner rpmdrake UI with the old standard rpmdrake. Since you took your personal time to reiterate your history from your cooker standpoint I felt it only fair and necessary that I reiterate the history from the standpoint of everyone else who is not directly involved day to day in cooker. So I will take some time out of my day to do this. When the beginner rpmdrake was introduced, there had been no opinion polls heralding it's existence to the general population. There had been no activity or screenshots or sketches of possible UI configurations listed on the mandrakeclub anywhere. There was no knowledge among any of the Mandrake kin (non cooker) that anything new was coming; and therefore there was no chance in hell itself that any decisions concerning it would involve the public. If I went to newbie, expert, or Mandrakeclub forums right now and asked any of them had participated in a beginner research program to create a beginner rpmdrake to replace the old, or even if any of them had been asked whether they actually even wanted a replacement or not, exactly how many people do you think would respond in the affirmative? The target audience for rpmdrake is beginners. Yet beginners don't use cooker. Yet Mandrakesoft polls, mailing
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 00:38, w9ya wrote: Well the issues you are talking about : package management and query have little to nothing to do with the actual installation process in ANY operating system from a user's standpoint. So I think the real issue we have been talking about is NOT installation at all. But the rpm-drake stuff tries to BOTH install AND manage packages without a clear understanding that a user *would* think it is too hard to install linux programs when the gui tools are not made clean and easy for him to use. I *AM* saying that a user watching me install could easily think it was too hard. And I will maintain that having to hit all these damn buttons, in the right order, to use the rpmdrake tool to find, get, and then install a program is MUCH harder than finding, getting, and installing a program in the windows world. I use both, and I have been using computers for 35 years. You will have to *exactly* explain to me how in a step by step fashion the current rpmdrake tools are actually easier. Further, I *CAN* go to a gui in Windows and *CAN* find out what is installed. You say differently, but there is a specific place to go. You are correct. In 98 it's Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs. Within that box you have three tabs. Install/Uninstall (applies to applications that are not included with the 98 installation files, Windows Setup (applies to programs that are included with the 98 OS) and Startup Disk (which has absolutely nothing to do with Add/Remove Programs). In both Install/Uninstall and Windows Setup tabs, you can see what is installed and what is not installed. Additionally you can affect what is installed and uninstalled. So technically, IMO, this applet is presently superior to beginner rpmdrake, aka rpmdrake 2.X. This Windows 98 control panel applet is extremely similar to what standard rpmdrake (aka rpmdrake 1.4) offered, except that standard rpmdrake was much more feature rich and very much superior to what the 98 Add/Remove Programs offered. (from the standpoint of functionality/cosmetics.) In fact it made a statement about the originality of the Mandrake distro and uniquely and distinctly divided it from the crowd. In much the same way that rpm divided Red Hat from the crowd and apt-get divided debian from the crowd. It had that magic, that probably helped add the noted difference that Mandrake was winning the desktop popularity contest. Finally; and I cannot be any more specific that this. Why not make a better tool than Windows has, so new users can clearly see a superiority right off the bat. Make it gui and play in their world -view. Bob WellI agree. Maintenance problems dictated that the interface be rewritten, however I believe that the cosmetics from rpmdrake 1.4 UI should have been retained, since it had the superiority and originality you refer to. --LX -- Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk Linux Mandrake 9.1 Enlightenment-0.16.5-12mdk Evolution 1.2.4-1.1mdk Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/
Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's [was: Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software]
IMO the kernel should ignore unrecognized options instead of failing not sure of that, if i have an option that has a meaning, and it changes name (for whatever reason) I'd like to be notified early, not having to hunt problem for an option that was ignored. the kernel should ignore, but, signal the failure to the mount program. then, with a option, mount would either fail or ignore it too. and print a warning. this is the way it work, usually. -- Mickaël Scherer
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed*software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 w9ya wrote: On Thursday 19 June 2003 04:50 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: So packages on a CD don't count? Again, I do agree that users should be able to see what software is installed, but -kpackage does do this, as does gnorpm (if it will currently build or work with rpm-4.2) The *point* was, that new users should/might want to have one gui based utility do this. Or at least that was my point. One program for the user to run, not several. (Hint, I am not disagreeing with you on this point, read the paragraph above the one you are replying to). -The majority of software a user is going to use, they should be able to find quite quickly Some yes, some no. That was the basis we were talking about. Maybe the real problem is people assuming that Mandrake is as bad as otehr distros that don't install a CD-writing app when a CD-writer is found. -You did claim windows was point-and-click-easy, so why does my girlfriend install software easily under Mandrake, but not under Windows? There is no global catalog of available software on Windows in any case. One example. Again the *point* was to consider making it one program. Not in the context of this paragraph, which was in response to your claims that software installation is trivial under Windows. I lost about 50MB of important data since my previous backup, to a setup.exe which on uninstall took all the files in the same folder with it, and the person who installed it had kindly installed it on the root of my D: drive, which contained all my data. One that can both scan for installed and not installed programs. On this I thought we agreed several posts ago. Has that changed ? No. Well now I am confused, or do you like to argue both sides of the coin ? You made some statements which I disagreed with, but you don't seem to notice that I don't disagree with your main point. In summary - -the fact that some people here find urpmi more convenient doens't mean we think newbies should use it, but it means we don't use rpmdrake much - -Windows isn't much better (it doesn't show me alternative media players like winamp when I click any Add/remove programs menu. Installing softare from the network is possible if you have an Active Directory domain, but each piece of software (that doesn't support MSI files) needs to be specially prepared for this. (BTW, this is why I think urpmi should have LDAP support ...). Software you uninstall sometimes doesn't get removed from the list of installed software. Software installation and uninstallation can be unpredictable. Not all software installs itself into the list of installed software (yes, even ones where you run a real setup.exe). - -It would be nice if by default rpmdrake would show software that is installed. IMHO, there should be an options dialog, which has things like show installed software in searches. Is there any reason why installed software can not be under a seperate branch of the tree view? Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+8sM7rJK6UGDSBKcRAu0kAKCf5J2MiCB3b5qjLVLtb8AwAwmwHwCfdhrR m7r6KxRG+2RXDFxSLLC+20I= =BsQV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] Re: [Contrib-Rpm] abiword-1.0.6-1mdk
R.I.P. Deaddog [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 2003-06-17(Tue) 15:48:40 +0200, Marcel Pol wrote: Yes, it has just been fixed, bug in rpm fixed in rpm-4.2.1 with backport to original rpm. Thanks. I guess this was already covered in another thread. I should probably read better. It still leaves me with my question about update-alternatives. Not confirmed, but my bet is: since /usr/bin/abiword is present in 1.0.4 but not 1.0.6 in %%files, rpm removes the files AFTER update-alternatives is run. That is, after running postin script in new package, it goes ahead to remove all non-existant (which it thinks so) files in the old package. Is it so, fpons? The bug concerns packages removed, not files removed. This changes nothing for abiword as /usr/bin/abiword is created by update-alternatives by %post, it does not need to be present in %files. Look at /usr/share/doc/rpm-*/triggers for documentation about which scriptlet section are executed first, you will see that if abiword-1.0.4 has /usr/bin/abiword in %files, /usr/bin/abiword is removed after %post is executed, which is probably bad, a %trigger should be used so. So you are right and Marcel Pol has work in the pipe ;-) François.
Re: [Cooker] An interesting comment
- Original Message - From: Han Boetes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] An interesting comment phriedrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pascal Terjan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric Fernandez wrote: Actually that would be a good move if Paris was doing the same than Munich... switching from MS to SuSE ? :-) switching from MS to a home-country-linux-distribution... Nah. There are also a lot of people from other countries working on mandrake, or any other *nix distro/whatever. *nix is created on the internet. Nationality is no longer the reason people choose one distro or the other. Then switching from MS to a Free software distro... Eric
Re: [Cooker] XWine and wine - status in cooker?
Le Mercredi 11 Juin 2003 14:58, Vincent Meyer, MD a écrit : Many thanks! Is anyone having success with the current XWine and wine in cooker? I have fowarded all your mails to Philippe BOUSQUET the author of Xwine. He knows the bug due to a reorganization of the code. He is doing the corrections and a new package will be available next week. As promised, the new version of xwine XWine v0.3.1r1 is available at http://darken.tuxfamily.org/ Thanks to Philippe ! -- Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/ Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org/
[Cooker] asus P4C800 and mdk coocker
Hi, I am trying to install mdk9.1 on a Asus P4C800 Motherboard, but it did not work correctly. THe PC configuration is : - Asus P4C800 - S-ATA Western digital 36Go (for the systeme) - P-ATA Western digital 200Go (for the data) - P-ATA DVD pioneer - Piv 3GHz FSB 800 - 2 * 512 Mo Corsair DDR-SDRAM 3200 - Suma GeForce 2 I configure the bios to use the serial ata as the firt ide The installation of the mdk9.1 (entreprise) is ok. the boot is ok the connexion with the root user is ok. I just have to install the network module. does the actual mandrake coocker version know the i875 shipset thanks Pascal
[Cooker] [Bug 4087] [spec-helper] spec-helper strips all binaries, even those in /usr/lib/debug
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4087 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution||FIXED --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-20-06 12:16 --- Patch applied in 0.9-1mdk. Thx. -- Configure bugmail: http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] status: RESOLVED creation_date: description: Patch applied in 0.9-1mdk. Thx.
[Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's [was: Re:
Le jeu 19/06/2003 ` 12:25, Andrey Borzenkov a icrit : The right solution is to add support for external helper and query it for mount options for a given device/fstype. That's a great idea ! - do something sensible when device could not be mounted. the please insert CD dialog that windows pops up would be very useful for newbies as example. you have a problem. If u are in console mode how are u doing to do that? [... rest skipped due to extremely hard quoting using copy'n'paste :)] Have I wrote a SINGLE WORD about HOW it should be implemented? Why are you so hostile? I just said, it would open up *possibility*. -andrey
[Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's [was: Re: rpmdrake and newbies: they someti
In the meantime, I'm pretty sure the new competitor to supermount (the name is \ slipping my mind at the moment) supports ignoring options that don't apply to the \ filesystem it finds, and supermount may also. 1. It is not a competitor. Sorry. There are zillions way to mount filesystem on access or even on insert (one of them - integrating automount in core VFS - was posted recently on lkml) but none of them so far provides a way to change busy media. 2. Do you suggest to recompile submoount, supermount, mount or whatever every time new filesystem is added? -andrey
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed * software
On Thu, 2003-06-19 at 18:04, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: It is pretty well perceived by the general population, from what I see, that rpmdrake was redesigned for beginners. The fact that the decision had a rationale or the fact that the decision was acted on are not facts that are in dispute. The dispute comes in with the total disconnect that existed between the users (paying or nonpaying) and a decision that directly involved them all. A user interface is by it's very nature a public interface, a means by which the public at large has a window into the operating system. Therefore by that definition it should be the public at large that has the *most relevant* input and decision making powers concerning the user interfaces. Mandrakesoft, to it's credit, has put a smorgasbord of methods by which users can voice their preferences. No, Lyvim. For everyone else on this list, this is a simple practical matter of what is the best way for rpmdrake to function. No-one on this list, to the best of my knowledge, being an automaton, we all inevitably have different ideas on this topic. It's just *you* who seems to want to turn it into a Biblical struggle. GIVE IT UP. -- adamw
[Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
So I've finally fixed my fix by extending mount.c capability, adding the ability to silently remove some options for some FS's (namely, mode= for udf). Sorry, just realized - but how is it going to help with supermount? Supermount does not use any external command to mount subfs so this must be fixed in kernel if at all. -andrey
[Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
Andrey Borzenkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So I've finally fixed my fix by extending mount.c capability, adding the ability to silently remove some options for some FS's (namely, mode= for udf). Sorry, just realized - but how is it going to help with supermount? It won't :). Supermount does not use any external command to mount subfs so this must be fixed in kernel if at all. Yes. I personally don't use supermount anymore, because it's completely unusable since it's so bugged in the 2.4 (it was nice in the 2.2), so actually my patch doesn't help at all with supermount. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
[Cooker] Re: rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed * software
1) If you want to participate in Mandrake development, you have to get involved in Cooker. There's no way around that. The only sort of exception to that is the beta process, and the greater Mandrake community had the opportunity to voice their opinion then. 2) Unhappy people bitch, while happy people usually stay quiet. You overrate the backlash against the new rpmdrake. I guarantee you more users are happy with the new rpmdrake than not, you just don't hear from the happy ones. As a user happy with the new rpmdrake, I'll take this opportunity to speak up. I couldn't even use rpmdrake until the new one was made. The old one sucked and didn't even work. I hated it. The new one is beautiful. Lyvim Xaphir wrote: When the beginner rpmdrake was introduced, there had been no opinion polls heralding it's existence to the general population. There had been no activity or screenshots or sketches of possible UI configurations listed on the mandrakeclub anywhere. There was no knowledge among any of the Mandrake kin (non cooker) that anything new was coming; and therefore there was no chance in hell itself that any decisions concerning it would involve the public. If I went to newbie, expert, or Mandrakeclub forums right now and asked any of them had participated in a beginner research program to create a beginner rpmdrake to replace the old, or even if any of them had been asked whether they actually even wanted a replacement or not, exactly how many people do you think would respond in the affirmative? The target audience for rpmdrake is beginners. Yet beginners don't use cooker. Yet Mandrakesoft polls, mailing lists, and surveys exist for the purpose of hearing from beginners and users. Yet those resources were completely unused prior to the rollout of beginner rpmdrake. The impression is that that had to be on purpose. Rewind to 9.0 development cycle. There was an immediate backlash to the rollout of the beginner rpmdrake replacement. Should we have been surprised? You might say, Well, they are going to bitch no matter what changes were made, so we lose either way. My answer is that no body can truly bitch about a voted decision because that is the maximum position of strength. And if they do, then they are still wrong and the commonsense majority will recognize the wrongness. But that's naturally not what we have here. So the users used the only outlet that they had for their frustrations at the time of 9.0, which were the rpm voting polls. The power of public opinion was vast as the standard rpmdrake poll rocketed to the top of the total poll list, which is prioritized in order of votes cast. There were only perhaps four polls above it. Actions taken? Responses? None. Fast forward to 9.1 development cycle. This is when I myself started paying attention, since I had begun distributing cooker cd's, and I also had bravely and somewhat foolishly moved my production rig to 9.1 cooker in a blind act of faith. Beginner rpmdrake hit me like a ton of bricks. Other disgruntled users (not me) again implemented a standard rpmdrake UI poll on Mandrakeclub rpm poll section, and again it's popularity was phenomenal. Once more it rocketed to the first priority page number one, completely unopposed, page one being one out of about 17 or 18 pages at the time, if memory serves. Again there were only a bare handful of polls above it. Actions taken? None. Responses? None. Explanations to the general public as to what was going on? None. Basically confusion reigned supreme. It is true as Buchan pointed out that a handful of more knowledgable Club members went to Cooker and complained, but their voices went basically unacted upon regarding the real differences between beginner and standard rpmdrake. Fast forward to about a month before Deno decided to leave Mandrakesoft. The 9.0 and 9.1 standard rpmdrake polls were shut down and thus rendered invisible to the general public, stifling further forum conversation within those polls. Again there was no explanation given other than an answer I posed to the Club about the problem. I was basically told that we needed to migrate because the beginner rpmdrake was better. So, that's it. You might continue to say that yes, users do have input. Perhaps that is true to a very limited degree, but it's barely just true enough to be able to make that statement. At least in the case of rpmdrake. The questions in my mind remain: If the user interface's cosmetics and design are for the users at large then why arent users at large questioned and polled regarding the user interface's cosmetics and design. If the Club money is supposed to give your vote a priority over other users and a voice in the Club regarding development then why is it that your Club money does not give your vote a priority over other users and a voice in the Club regarding development. Some might say, yes
[Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's [was: Re: rpmdrake and newbies: they someti
Andrey Borzenkov wrote: In the meantime, I'm pretty sure the new competitor to supermount (the name is \ slipping my mind at the moment) supports ignoring options that don't apply to the \ filesystem it finds, and supermount may also. 1. It is not a competitor. Sorry. There are zillions way to mount filesystem on access or even on insert (one of them - integrating automount in core VFS - was posted recently on lkml) but none of them so far provides a way to change busy media. Well, you know what I meant. It's meant as an alternative. I'm not even saying we should use it, you're right that it's not good for busy media. It waits a whole second after last use to umount, that just won't cut it for floppies. I could duplicate that behavior (and have actually) with autofs, but it just isn't good enough for end users. 2. Do you suggest to recompile submoount, supermount, mount or whatever every time new filesystem is added? Well, auto is usually used for removable media filesystems, so I'd say yes, just for when new removable media filesystems are added, which isn't that often. -andrey
Re: [Cooker] Re: [Contrib-Rpm] abiword-1.0.6-1mdk
On 20 Jun 2003 10:25:56 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (François Pons) wrote: R.I.P. Deaddog [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 2003-06-17(Tue) 15:48:40 +0200, Marcel Pol wrote: It still leaves me with my question about update-alternatives. Not confirmed, but my bet is: since /usr/bin/abiword is present in 1.0.4 but not 1.0.6 in %%files, rpm removes the files AFTER update-alternatives is run. That is, after running postin script in new package, it goes ahead to remove all non-existant (which it thinks so) files in the old package. Is it so, fpons? The bug concerns packages removed, not files removed. This changes nothing for abiword as /usr/bin/abiword is created by update-alternatives by %post, it does not need to be present in %files. Look at /usr/share/doc/rpm-*/triggers for documentation about which scriptlet section are executed first, you will see that if abiword-1.0.4 has /usr/bin/abiword in %files, /usr/bin/abiword is removed after %post is executed, which is probably bad, a %trigger should be used so. Thank you both for pointing out the problem. I'll see what to do with it. -- Marcel Pol
Re: [Cooker] Re: rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed * software
Maybe providing synaptic with MDK could solve the request for another interface for these things. Is there a possiblility to do that? I know that synaptic uses a special database of packages that you need to set up at some repository, but I have done that for redhat and it is not a big deal. So what would it take to provide synaptic, eg in the contrib section? best regards keld
[Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] kernel2.4-marcelo-2.4.21-2mdk
Is kernel-linus2.4-2.4.21-0.pre7.1mdk.i586.rpm going to be removed from the mirror then? Juan Quintela wrote: --=-=-= Name: kernel2.4-marceloRelocations: (not relocateable) Version : 2.4.21Vendor: MandrakeSoft Release : 2mdk Build Date: Fri Jun 20 00:02:47 2003 Install date: (not installed) Build Host: bi.mandrakesoft.com Group : System/Kernel and hardwareSource RPM: (none) Size: 28665589 License: GPL Packager: Juan Quintela [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL : http://www.kernel.org/ Summary : The Linux kernel (the core of the Linux operating system). Description : The kernel package contains the Linux kernel (vmlinuz), the core of your Mandrake Linux operating system. The kernel handles the basic functions of the operating system: memory allocation, process allocation, device input and output, etc. Exclusivearch: i386 --=-=-= * Sat Jun 14 2003 Juan Quintela [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2.4.21-1mdk - 2.4.21 final. --=-=-= --=-=-= --=-=-=
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: I personally don't use supermount anymore, because it's completely unusable since it's so bugged in the 2.4 (it was nice in the 2.2), so actually my patch doesn't help at all with supermount. s/2.4/Mandrake kernels/ Supermount works quite well, even on the 9.1 stock kernel it isn't too bad (except when you don't have a floppy drive connected and supermount has mounted it). Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+8udFrJK6UGDSBKcRAuqjAKC3MttHpaiM/mERjURNTBXEhiHo1ACgy538 H4FTrvoQPEcYdTJlwf3981g= =iODx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
[Cooker] Everything not back up yet?
ftp.uninett.no appears to not have anything updated since before Cooker's recent daylong silence.
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
On 20 Jun 2003, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: I personally don't use supermount anymore, because it's completely unusable since it's so bugged in the 2.4 (it was nice in the 2.2), so actually my patch doesn't help at all with supermount. That is because your kernel team doesn't update to (or comment on) Andreys version. (ok..I am being a bit mean here, but I have hope to secretly manipulate GC to push kernelteam a bit, or to at least comment on it. supermount-ng really needs to go in 9.2). I've provided a kernel with supermount-ng for a while now, and people really seem to like it. (Oh..and perhaps it even fixes the problem of incompatible mount options? At least I can but garbage in there and cds get mounted fine. Do'nt have a DVD handy however.) d.
[Cooker] Re[2]: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
I personally don't use supermount anymore, because it's completely unusable since it's so bugged in the 2.4 (it was nice in the 2.2), so actually my patch doesn't help at all with supermount. Ah, so your auto referred to standard mount fstype. I was mistaken. Should I take is (from your Cc to Pixel) that Mandrake does not use supermount for removables anymore?
[Cooker] Re[2]: double-clicking on files directly from CD's [was: Re: rpmdrake and newbies: they someti
Well, you know what I meant. It's meant as an alternative. I'm not even saying we should use it, you're right that it's not good for busy media. It waits a whole second after last use to umount, that just won't cut it for floppies. I could duplicate that behavior (and have actually) with autofs, but it just isn't good enough for end users. the problem is exatly last use. I do not want to search for tasks holding my fs open and kill them before I can unmount it. That is all. And you can't be sure you do not have something holding your fs open. And the same goes for a large number of users it seems at least those coming from windows world. Just to explain main difference between supermount and the rest of automounters (I have seen so far) and reason for complexity. -andrey
[Cooker] gweather-applet still not working for now a few weeks
gweather-applet is still not working for now one month, maybe more, is there any maintainer for this tool ? problem seems to be the website which is not giving weather informations anymore. What about using evolution weather infos rather than the one from http://www.interceptvector.com/ ? Evolution weather informations are working well. lolomin ( mandrake-cooker at lolomin dot net )
Re[2]: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
I've provided a kernel with supermount-ng for a while now, and people really seem to like it. (Oh..and perhaps it even fixes the problem of incompatible mount options? no. I will implement external daemon sometimes. Any help is appreciated. Code is independent from the rest of supermount and does require only trivial interaction with it. -andrey
[Cooker] shorewall error?
Hi, after upgrading of shorewall to shorewall-1.4.4b-1mdk I got this error (important part of it): Masqueraded Subnets and Hosts: iptables: Invalid argument Processing /etc/shorewall/stop ... Processing /etc/shorewall/stopped ... /sbin/service: line 148: 17950 Terminated $debug $servicedir/$service $options this is caused by line eth0 eth1 in masq file. Do you know where s problem? thanks, Jiri Cerny
Re: [Cooker] Re: rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed * software
On Friday 20 June 2003 12:51, Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote: Maybe providing synaptic with MDK could solve the request for another interface for these things. Is there a possiblility to do that? I know that synaptic uses a special database of packages that you need to set up at some repository, but I have done that for redhat and it is not a big deal. So what would it take to provide synaptic, eg in the contrib section? yes, synaptics srpm is ready, just wait on apt-get on cooker. I will upload a spec somewhere tonight. -- Michaël Scherer
Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] kernel2.4-marcelo-2.4.21-2mdk
Viestissä Perjantai 20. Kesäkuuta 2003 13:51, David Walser kirjoitti: Is kernel-linus2.4-2.4.21-0.pre7.1mdk.i586.rpm going to be removed from the mirror then? If IRC the next kernel-linus that will show up onthe mirrors is: kernel-linus2.5-2.5.xx Juan Quintela wrote: --=-=-= Name: kernel2.4-marceloRelocations: (not relocateable) Version : 2.4.21Vendor: MandrakeSoft Release : 2mdk Build Date: Fri Jun 20 00:02:47 2003 Install date: (not installed) Build Host: bi.mandrakesoft.com Group : System/Kernel and hardwareSource RPM: (none) Size: 28665589 -- Regards Thomas Backlund http://www.iki.fi/tmb/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] mp3info build fix for gcc 3.3
Am Donnerstag, 19. Juni 2003, 13:41:02 Uhr MET, schrieb Christiaan Welvaart: Another multiline string problem, patch attached. I removed the whitespace (tabs) in the string, maybe it should stay in? Hi, I've uploaded a new package version. I've changed the patch a bit to add some newlines, else the about dialog would have looked bad. CU -- What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), Non-Violence in Peace and War
Re: [Cooker] XWine and wine - status in cooker?
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Pierre Jarillon wrote: As promised, the new version of xwine XWine v0.3.1r1 is available at http://darken.tuxfamily.org/ 0.3.1r1? Why do they always use such silly versioning? Anyway, I quickly rebuild it and uploaded to contrib. Warly, I changed the naming of XWine to xwine since we have this policy? If so, I guess you should remove the old XWine from mirrors? d.
Re: [Cooker] Everything not back up yet?
Viestissä Perjantai 20. Kesäkuuta 2003 13:52, David Walser kirjoitti: ftp.uninett.no appears to not have anything updated since before Cooker's recent daylong silence. Same goes for sunet.se wich means updates around the world has come to a complete stop... :-( Is the MDK Master Server up??? If so ... we need to inform sunet.se and uninett.no to restart their updatings... -- Regards Thomas Backlund http://www.iki.fi/tmb/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Cooker] devfs deadlock (initscripts hanging)
I have been asked by Pavel Roskin to resubmit my patch to lkml. Because I am still uneasy about it I'd like to ask - has anybody used my patch? Danny have you included it in your kernel? In this case are any artefacts known? Revently I have seen increased number of complaints on a.o.l.m. It would be nice this issue would have been fixed for 9.2
[Cooker] [Bug 3020] [initscripts] shutdown aborting with a bash syntax error
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3020 --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-20-06 13:18 --- i get the same error. details are [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# rpm -qf /etc/init.d/mandrake_consmap initscripts-7.06-12.1mdk [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# locale LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NAME=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_ADDRESS=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_TELEPHONE=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_MEASUREMENT=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_ALL= here is a workaround (pfft!). it is just fine without the check. IMHO vt-is-UTF8 needs a little work :) -- snip -- #if [ -n $LANG ]; then #case $LANG in # *.utf8*|*.UTF-8*) # if [ $TERM = linux -a `/sbin/consoletype` = vt ]; then # # vt-is-UTF8 --quiet || unicode_start # fi # ;; #esac #fi -- !snip -- -- Configure bugmail: http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] status: REOPENED creation_date: description: Hello, I'm using 9.1 RC2. Here's what I get when I run `shutdown -r|-h now' or `init 6' from a console session([Ctrl][Alt][F1]): ... INIT: Sending processes the TERM signal ;2R -bash: syntax error near unexpected token `;' This happens with or without ACPI set at boot time. Is there a syntax error in init scripts? Here's my hardware configuration (Keynux Agora eV laptop): 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 82845 845 (Brookdale) Chipset Host Bridge (rev 11) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 82845 845 (Brookdale) Chipset AGP Bridge (rev 11) 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 82801BAM/CAM PCI Bridge (rev 42) 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82801CAM ISA Bridge (LPC) (rev 02) 00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82801CAM IDE U100 (rev 02) 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM SMBus (rev 02) 00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM AC'97 Audio (rev 02) 00:1f.6 Modem: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM AC'97 Modem (rev 02) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R250 Lf [Radeon Mobility 9000 M9] (rev 01) 02:04.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Texas Instruments TSB43AB21 IEEE-1394a-2000 Controller (PHY/Link) 02:06.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) 02:07.0 CardBus bridge: ENE Technology Inc CB1410 Cardbus Controller 02:0a.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB (rev 50) 02:0a.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB (rev 50) 02:0a.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 51) Don't hesitate to get back to me! Thank you for your support. Cheers, Mike.
Re: [Cooker] devfs deadlock (initscripts hanging)
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Andrey Borzenkov wrote: I have been asked by Pavel Roskin to resubmit my patch to lkml. Because I am still uneasy about it I'd like to ask - has anybody used my patch? Danny have you included it in your kernel? In this case are any artefacts known? Yes, I do not think there were many downloads (20 or so). I did not get any complaints. d.
[Cooker] Bug: Horde/Imp php = 4.3.0
Hello all, This is a repost (the original does not seem to exist). I tried to post this @ qa.mandrakesoft.com, (but as usual) it doesn't seem to like me, so reposting here. (Do I have to do something special to be able to report bugs?) Horde 2.2.1 Imp 3.1 have an issue with newer versions of php (= 4.3.0) A non-critical error is generated when viewing messages: Warning: htmlspecialchars() [function.htmlspecialchars]: charset `us-ascii' not supported, assuming iso-8859-1 in /var/www/html/horde/imp/lib/MIME/Viewer/text.php on line 41 Based on what I saw on the horde imp lists, this is resolved in the most recent versions (horde 2.2.3 imp 3.2.1). Suggest updating packages. Thanks, S
[Cooker] Reporting bugs (was: Bug: Horde/Imp php = 4.3.0)
On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 08:40:09AM -0400, magic wrote: I tried to post this @ qa.mandrakesoft.com, (but as usual) it doesn't seem to like me, so reposting here. (Do I have to do something special to be able to report bugs?) Just create a Bugzilla account and log in. When you go to qa.mandrakesoft.com, you should see: My Bugs Change password or user preferences Logout [EMAIL PROTECTED] If not, log in / create an account. If you can login, where does it fail? Do you get an error message? -- Regards, Olav
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
Forward to Cooker. I did it again. On Friday 20 June 2003 12:38 am, w9ya wrote: Well the issues you are talking about : package management and query have little to nothing to do with the actual installation process in ANY operating system from a user's standpoint. So I think the real issue we have been talking about is NOT installation at all. But the rpm-drake stuff tries to BOTH install AND manage packages without a clear understanding that a user *would* think it is too hard to install linux programs when the gui tools are not made clean and easy for him to use. This is your opinion, not a fact, but your opinion that I and others disagree with. It may be supported by some anecdotal evidence, but that does not change the fact that it is an opinion. No one, including you and LX have done any market research that has any kind of validity to it that says a result, one way or another. LX's beef, from what I gather, isn't so much abour rpmdrake as it is about Mandrake Developers not listening to the votes of Club members. Since I am in no position to influence the developer's, and not able to assist in the developement of any changes, I need to spend my time on other more valuable (to me) issues, so I am officially dropping out of this conversation. -- Greg
[Cooker] Bug: Horde/Imp php = 4.3.0
Hello all, I tried to post this @ qa.mandrakesoft.com, (but as usual) it doesn't seem to like me, so reposting here. (Do I have to do something special to be able to report bugs?) Horde 2.2.1 Imp 3.1 have an issue with newer versions of php (= 4.3.0) A non-critical error is generated when viewing messages: Warning: htmlspecialchars() [function.htmlspecialchars]: charset `us-ascii' not supported, assuming iso-8859-1 in /var/www/html/horde/imp/lib/MIME/Viewer/text.php on line 41 Based on what I saw on the horde imp lists, this is resolved in the most recent versions (horde 2.2.3 imp 3.2.1). Suggest updating packages. Also of note: I believe there should be an added require for the rpms. Either php-mysql or php-pgsql (depending on which db is used on the backend) should be required. (That was a different error that took awhile to figure out, and non discriptive php error messages didn't help). Thanks, S
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed*software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 w9ya wrote: On Tuesday 17 June 2003 10:50 pm, Greg Meyer wrote: I think it is interesting that some think it is easier as two, while others find it easier as one. Personally I never use it since urpmi is my best freind now Oh yeah, teach them urmpi and command line...lol. Did Greg even vaguely suggest anyone else should use urpmi? Please, if you don't visit the list often (as you state), at least *read* the posts? 2 - Installing ahs nothing to do with how do I start a program etc. i.e. Sure it does. Once it's installed, how do I start it. Or put another way; if a user can use some other op system's installer without having to think about it, and a linux system can be even better by being more infomative but just as easy to use, then it is a win-win situation. I don't disagree with your points here. I was only trying to say that at one point, installing Windows software is now easy because people are used to it after all these years. At one point, they didn't know how to do it there either, but they had to learn. Well for the last 5 years or more, installing in Windows is point and click on a single icon for downloaded programs. You mean on Windows I actually have to download files? How? Where? What if I don't like this one, where do I find another one? And if I can install it like that, can I uninstall it like that? And why, if I can uninstall everything in one place, can't I install everything from the same place? And what about files called .msi files? Anyway, on Mandrake, you can just double click on any rpm you downloaded, and it will install it, and anything it needs. Unfortunately, double clicking on an rpm on a CD still gives some problem It doesn't get any easier than that, unless you get really creative. i.e. One program to get and install software. Windows (until the Windows installer) had one program for each one you wanted to install. With msi, it's slightly better, but not much. Now make that same program tell me about what I already have and you have a winner. Yes, this I agree with, but please don't punt Windows as being the utopia of software installation, it can't even tell me which program installed the mess of dll's all over my system. If it was, we wouldn't need so many MCSEs. Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+8DBurJK6UGDSBKcRArA9AJ9ioTKa0rblXmtUdPJkK1i0XogQoQCfZaG1 mKBbSXeGQVAqoe/Tf0d26Jc= =ZCFj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
[Cooker] Re: [PATCH] Final mkinitrd support for 2.5 (on ix86 at least)
Andrey Borzenkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: please, look at http://supermount-ng.sf.net/mdk-25/ it has several SRPMs that I'm currently using on my system with 2.5.71 as of this writing. They allow me to freely boot both 2.4 and 2.5 kernels. No, I guess this ugly code is not needed; the version on this site contains much more simple sed script. it is not as fool proof but it should work as long as modprobe.conf is automatically generated. Ah, it has a better look now :). Thanks! As for probeall support - it is up to you to decide. I did not want to add any incompatible changes so far. I think, we need more experience, it is just as with devfs. I am currently thinking on improved alias support for modprobe (at least, I think it is improved :) BTW modprobe there also has patch for probeall. I'm afraid I have not enough knowledge on the 2.5 to have a clear view on this topic (remember I'm no kernel guy). I'm clearly afraid by the large awk code you added (before) in mkinitrd, but as for the rest I can't tell. module-init-tools are totally different from modutils so some common policy should be established before 2.5 can be added to distro. So, it's not yet time to upload a mkinitrd, and friends, to cooker then? Are you working with juan or nicolas planel on this, or is it to be done later? Thanks for your hard work.. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] shorewall error?
Jiøí Èerný [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, after upgrading of shorewall to shorewall-1.4.4b-1mdk I got this error (important part of it): Masqueraded Subnets and Hosts: iptables: Invalid argument Processing /etc/shorewall/stop ... Processing /etc/shorewall/stopped ... /sbin/service: line 148: 17950 Terminated $debug $servicedir/$service $options this is caused by line eth0 eth1 in masq file. Do you know where s problem? have you tried shorewall check ? thanks, Jiri Cerny -- Florin http://www.mandrakesoft.com http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~florin/
Re: [Cooker] Reporting bugs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Olav Vitters wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 08:40:09AM -0400, magic wrote: I tried to post this @ qa.mandrakesoft.com, (but as usual) it doesn't seem to like me, so reposting here. (Do I have to do something special to be able to report bugs?) Just create a Bugzilla account and log in. When you go to qa.mandrakesoft.com, you should see: My Bugs Change password or user preferences Logout [EMAIL PROTECTED] If not, log in / create an account. If you can login, where does it fail? Do you get an error message? It seems bugzilla gives an error message if you put keywords in your bug entry ... which should be fixed, but in the meantime, don't enter keyworks. - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+8whnrJK6UGDSBKcRAgaTAJ0WcGQQKPq9PbWCvXsKofnI7LlXJgCaAsRw /ScBvHS1K7HisPbrMjbZ/Gs= =B+Jp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] Reporting bugs
Olav Vitters wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 08:40:09AM -0400, magic wrote: I tried to post this @ qa.mandrakesoft.com, (but as usual) it doesn't seem to like me, so reposting here. (Do I have to do something special to be able to report bugs?) Just create a Bugzilla account and log in. When you go to qa.mandrakesoft.com, you should see: My Bugs Change password or user preferences Logout [EMAIL PROTECTED] If not, log in / create an account. If you can login, where does it fail? Do you get an error message? I have an account, and can login, and search bugs. Where it fails is when I try to post a bug. I complete the (new bug) form, and then select the Commit button. The form appears to post, and I get another page MandrakeSoft Bugzilla; Bugzilla Message. In the message area, it says Posting Bug, and there it sits (forever). If I try to use the preset queries: My Bugs, I get a page that tells me Zarro Boogs found. This is not a new issue, I have never been able to post bugs. I and have written several messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED], but never recieved a reply. Thanks, S
[Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] kernel2.4-marcelo-2.4.21-2mdk
david == David Walser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: david Is kernel-linus2.4-2.4.21-0.pre7.1mdk.i586.rpm going to be removed from the mirror then? david Juan Quintela wrote: Yes. --=-=-= Name: kernel2.4-marceloRelocations: (not relocateable) Version : 2.4.21Vendor: MandrakeSoft Release : 2mdk Build Date: Fri Jun 20 00:02:47 2003 Install date: (not installed) Build Host: bi.mandrakesoft.com Group : System/Kernel and hardwareSource RPM: (none) Size: 28665589 License: GPL Packager: Juan Quintela [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL : http://www.kernel.org/ Summary : The Linux kernel (the core of the Linux operating system). Description : The kernel package contains the Linux kernel (vmlinuz), the core of your Mandrake Linux operating system. The kernel handles the basic functions of the operating system: memory allocation, process allocation, device input and output, etc. Exclusivearch: i386 --=-=-= * Sat Jun 14 2003 Juan Quintela [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2.4.21-1mdk - 2.4.21 final. --=-=-= --=-=-= --=-=-= -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy
[Cooker] Re: Reporting bugs
On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:18:21AM -0400, magic wrote: I have an account, and can login, and search bugs. Where it fails is when I try to post a bug. I complete the (new bug) form, and then select the Commit button. The form appears to post, and I get another page MandrakeSoft Bugzilla; Bugzilla Message. In the message area, it says Posting Bug, and there it sits (forever). If I try to use the preset queries: My Bugs, I get a page that tells me Zarro Boogs found. How long did you wait at the 'Posting Bug' page. It should refresh after it has posted your bug. Can you try to wait 3 minutes (excessive, should be ~15 secs)? Do you use a proxy server? I know privoxy can change/break html pages. This is not a new issue, I have never been able to post bugs. I and have written several messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED], but never recieved a reply. PS: I'm subscribed to the Cooker mailinglist, I'll receive it from the list. -- Regards, Olav
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 05:54, Adam Williamson wrote: No, Lyvim. For everyone else on this list, this is a simple practical matter of what is the best way for rpmdrake to function. No-one on this list, to the best of my knowledge, being an automaton, we all inevitably have different ideas on this topic. It's just *you* who seems to want to turn it into a Biblical struggle. GIVE IT UP. It was never a simple matter because it involved the public at large, it *is* a free public debate involving history and different ideas about the best way for rpmdrake to function, and the fact that we all have different ideas on this subject means that everyone gets a chance to be heard. Which btw clears the way for me to state my case, and your personal vendetta against my personal self in that regard is irrelevant. This is why I haven't responded to your efforts to silence my voice before now; your irrelevance. The fact of the matter is that no matter what your preconceptions are, I now know for a fact that you are in the minority on this matter. I can't be more specific on that. If you've got a problem with me personally, then you start sending me email private, and I'll be more than glad to start dealing with you there. I have a preference for dealing with people face to face, because I find that in my personal experience it eliminates alot of overt long range pinhead arrogance on the part of the other person just about immediately. But in lieu of that, I'll take the next best thing. --LX -- Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk Linux Mandrake 9.1 Enlightenment-0.16.5-12mdk Evolution 1.2.4-1.1mdk Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's[was: Re:
Le ven 20/06/2003 à 09:55, Andrey Borzenkov a écrit : Le jeu 19/06/2003 ` 12:25, Andrey Borzenkov a icrit : The right solution is to add support for external helper and query it for mount options for a given device/fstype. That's a great idea ! - do something sensible when device could not be mounted. the please insert CD dialog that windows pops up would be very useful for newbies as example. you have a problem. If u are in console mode how are u doing to do that? [... rest skipped due to extremely hard quoting using copy'n'paste :)] Have I wrote a SINGLE WORD about HOW it should be implemented? Why are you so hostile? I just said, it would open up *possibility*. Sorry I'm not a nat_ive english speaker so I may have difficulties to nuances my words. I'm not hostile, I just wanted to pont out some problems. I'm really apologise for this. -- FACORAT Fabrice [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fiventis
[Cooker] Re: Re[2]: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
Andrey Borzenkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I personally don't use supermount anymore, because it's completely unusable since it's so bugged in the 2.4 (it was nice in the 2.2), so actually my patch doesn't help at all with supermount. Ah, so your auto referred to standard mount fstype. I was mistaken. Should I take is (from your Cc to Pixel) that Mandrake does not use supermount for removables anymore? Ah, hum, no. I suck :(. Sorry. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 20 Jun 2003, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: I personally don't use supermount anymore, because it's completely unusable since it's so bugged in the 2.4 (it was nice in the 2.2), so actually my patch doesn't help at all with supermount. That is because your kernel team doesn't update to (or comment on) Andreys version. Yes. (ok..I am being a bit mean here, but I have hope to secretly manipulate GC to push kernelteam a bit, or to at least comment on it. supermount-ng really needs to go in 9.2). I am impotent.. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (ok..I am being a bit mean here, but I have hope to secretly manipulate GC to push kernelteam a bit, or to at least comment on it. supermount-ng really needs to go in 9.2). I am impotent.. You really shouldn't state things like that out of context ... -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] gweather-applet still not working for now a few weeks
On 20 Jun 2003 13:13:22 +0200 lolomin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gweather-applet is still not working for now one month, maybe more, is there any maintainer for this tool ? problem seems to be the website which is not giving weather informations anymore. Hi I've mailed intercemtvector.com admin to warn him about this permission problem. (though he probably already knows) What about using evolution weather infos rather than the one from http://www.interceptvector.com/ ? Evolution weather informations are working well. Do you know the url of the xml file used by Evolution ? We could make a temporary patch to fix this problem. Olivier Blin
Re: [Cooker] Re: Evolution locks hard when a hyperlink is clicked
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 01:08, Olav Vitters wrote: Please see my reply to 'Crash when clicking on an url': http://archives.mandrakelinux.com/cooker/2003-06/msg01155.php (copypaste!) There are now five persons with Cooker that have/had this problem. I'll file a bug at Mandrake requesting the patch from CVS to be applied. It won't cause the URLs to load (bug is while returning an error), but it avoids the crash/hang. Make that 6... I've had this problem since getting up-to-date two days ago. Thanks for the fix. Wouter -- Wouter Lagerweij [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Cooker] [Bug 3482] [XFree86] Savage drivers still broken in 9.1 RC2
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3482 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added CC||[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-20-06 17:07 --- I have bad flickering on my Savage3D Aztech Graphics-based card with 9.1. It was fine with 9.0. The SWCursor option didn't help me but NoAccel does fix the flickering and shadowFB restores acceptable performance. Card:S3 Savage3D: S3 Inc.|86c794 [Savage 3D] (from lspcidrake) -- Configure bugmail: http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. --- Reminder: --- assigned_to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] status: NEW creation_date: description: I reported a problem in 9.1 RC1 with the Savage drivers (#2164) that was supposedly resolved. However, upon installing RC2, the original problem is still there. There are 3 files in Probo's savage driver release package, and all three need to be installed for the drivers to work correctly.
Re: [Cooker] gweather-applet still not working for now a few weeks
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Olivier Blin wrote: |Evolution weather informations are working well. | | Do you know the url of the xml file used by Evolution ? | We could make a temporary patch to fix this problem. That's not so simple. Currently evolution weather reporting code is the same as what gweather used in gnome-applets 2.2.x. Since then, gweather undergoes a big rewrite, so gweather from gnome-applets 2.3.x is completely different. The incerceptvector.com info is XML, while the one in weather.noaa.gov (yes, evolution and gweather 2.2.x use it) is text. Abel | | Olivier Blin | - -- Abel Cheung Linux counter #256983 | http://counter.li.org GPG Key: (0xC67186FF) | http://deaddog.org/gpg.asc Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1 41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+8yG7QVLh8cZxhv8RAuOSAJ0XD6GaPxFxL4pljHu4V0+ZUetfVACfbGWQ 3EIynsGF3a7/dXAnBBXTqGY= =RkEu -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] URPMI 4.4 weirdness
Robert Kulagowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Note the would install {null} instead of... lines.
I think it means the action would be to install, instead of
upgrading.
Just curious, but why is it telling me this in the first place? I've
got:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mythtv]$ rpm -qa|grep kernel
kernel-doc-2.4.21-1mdk
kernel-2.4.21-0.rc1.1mdk-1-1mdk
kernel-source-2.4.21-1mdk
already installed. Why would I even be offered SMP or any of the
other kernel variants?
Another question: why was this included also?
would install instead of upgrade package
kernel-2.4.21-0.rc1.1mdk-1-1mdk.i586
I should change this message, I didn't want to say installing package ... in
the same way there is a skipping package ...
If anybody has an idea about this, it would be nice, IANAGSEM.
François.
[Cooker] [Bug 4092] [jpilot] New: Keyring plugin not included
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4092 Product: jpilot Component: program Summary: Keyring plugin not included Product: jpilot Version: 0.99.5-2mdk Platform: PC OS/Version: All Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: enhancement Priority: P2 Component: program AssignedTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would be great if you could include the keyring plugin with the jpilot RPM, or as an additional, optional RPM. The keyring is one of my absolute favorite Palm applications. There would be little additional effort involved, IIUC, because the Keyring sources are included in the jpilot source distribution (indeed, as far as I can tell, we must be going out of our way to get rid of the plugin). -- Configure bugmail: http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (ok..I am being a bit mean here, but I have hope to secretly manipulate GC to push kernelteam a bit, or to at least comment on it. supermount-ng really needs to go in 9.2). I am impotent.. You really shouldn't state things like that out of context ... Yep :). The french I'd have selected is impuissant, it means at the same time sexually disabled, and unable to do something in a more general manner. The dictionnary gave me: # dico impuissant impotentimpuissant powerless impuissant I selected the first one, and I think impotent exists in french and means unable to physically move. I thought it might be as funny in english as it is in french. Oh well. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Thursday 19 June 2003 04:50 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: quote who=w9ya On Wednesday 18 June 2003 04:27 am, Buchan Milne wrote: find it easier as one. Personally I never use it since urpmi is my best freind now Oh yeah, teach them urmpi and command line...lol. Did Greg even vaguely suggest anyone else should use urpmi? Please, if you don't visit the list often (as you state), at least *read* the posts? Not nice. In hindsight, no ... Now go do like your mother might suggest; and wash your mouth out with soap. I have better things to do ... Or i.e. yes, it was implied, otherwise why bring it up in a discussion about newbies ? To indicate that he is not an authority on the uses and abuses of rpmdrake, since, like many cookers, he uses urpmi more than rpmdrake ... Sorry if this sounds harse, but it was you that suggested that I ..should at least *read* the posts Did I miss something? I don't disagree with your points here. I was only trying to say that at one point, installing Windows software is now easy because people are used to it after all these years. At one point, they didn't know how to do it there either, but they had to learn. Well for the last 5 years or more, installing in Windows is point and click on a single icon for downloaded programs. You mean on Windows I actually have to download files? How? Where? What if I don't like this one, where do I find another one? And if I can install it like that, can I uninstall it like that? And why, if I can uninstall everything in one place, can't I install everything from the same place? And what about files called .msi files? Anyway, on Mandrake, you can just double click on any rpm you downloaded, and it will install it, and anything it needs. Unfortunately, double clicking on an rpm on a CD still gives some problem Um, again we were discussing a newbie using the rpmdrake tools to download, and additionally to use them as a basis to discover what software might be installed. In that context, I will just have to disagree with your assessment of the problem, as this concerns rpmdrake and not a download sitting on a desktop or otherwise easily seen by a user , logged in as such user. So packages on a CD don't count? Again, I do agree that users should be able to see what software is installed, but -kpackage does do this, as does gnorpm (if it will currently build or work with rpm-4.2) The *point* was, that new users should/might want to have one gui based utility do this. Or at least that was my point. One program for the user to run, not several. -The majority of software a user is going to use, they should be able to find quite quickly Some yes, some no. That was the basis we were talking about. -You did claim windows was point-and-click-easy, so why does my girlfriend install software easily under Mandrake, but not under Windows? There is no global catalog of available software on Windows in any case. One example. Again the *point* was to consider making it one program. One that can both scan for installed and not installed programs. On this I thought we agreed several posts ago. Has that changed ? The real competition here IMHO is (from what I hear) Lindows (who has it easy AFAIK since they run as root so there never are any problems regarding rights etc) and possibly SuSE. Redhat also has a simple interface, that does also show you what is installed, but there it is definitely not fine-grained enough. Well now I am confused, or do you like to argue both sides of the coin ? Bob Regards, Buchan
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Friday 20 June 2003 08:02 am, Greg Meyer wrote: Forward to Cooker. I did it again. On Friday 20 June 2003 12:38 am, w9ya wrote: Well the issues you are talking about : package management and query have little to nothing to do with the actual installation process in ANY operating system from a user's standpoint. So I think the real issue we have been talking about is NOT installation at all. But the rpm-drake stuff tries to BOTH install AND manage packages without a clear understanding that a user *would* think it is too hard to install linux programs when the gui tools are not made clean and easy for him to use. This is your opinion, not a fact, but your opinion that I and others disagree with. It may be supported by some anecdotal evidence, but that does not change the fact that it is an opinion. No one, including you and LX have done any market research that has any kind of validity to it that says a result, one way or another. LX's beef, from what I gather, isn't so much abour rpmdrake as it is about Mandrake Developers not listening to the votes of Club members. The parameters that I gathered my evidence under are this: user feedback to me.. To a large extent this is their opinions. Alot of users found the older rpmdrake easier to use. They had specific issues with a number of things in the new rpmdrake. I shared this with this the cooker community at large. I hope you are not discounting their opinions in any way. That could be counter-productive. Since I am in no position to influence the developer's, and not able to assist in the developement of any changes, I need to spend my time on other more valuable (to me) issues, so I am officially dropping out of this conversation. Um, well o.k. For me, it might be a long time before I share any other user feedback. This has been a disagreeable endeavor for me. Perhaps it is the way I was made to feel defensive about the info I shared ? Bob Finch
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
Well the issues you are talking about : package management and query have little to nothing to do with the actual installation process in ANY operating system from a user's standpoint. So I think the real issue we have been talking about is NOT installation at all. But the rpm-drake stuff tries to BOTH install AND manage packages without a clear understanding that a user *would* think it is too hard to install linux programs when the gui tools are not made clean and easy for him to use. I *AM* saying that a user watching me install could easily think it was too hard. And I will maintain that having to hit all these damn buttons, in the right order, to use the rpmdrake tool to find, get, and then install a program is MUCH harder than finding, getting, and installing a program in the windows world. I use both, and I have been using computers for 35 years. You will have to *exactly* explain to me how in a step by step fashion the current rpmdrake tools are actually easier. Further, I *CAN* go to a gui in Windows and *CAN* find out what is installed. You say differently, but there is a specific place to go. Finally; and I cannot be any more specific that this. Why not make a better tool than Windows has, so new users can clearly see a superiority right off the bat. Make it gui and play in their world -view. Bob On Thursday 19 June 2003 10:35 pm, Greg Meyer wrote: Forwarding to cooker since I sent it to w9ya personally in error. This happened because I was forgetful and did not workaround his reply-to settings as he requested. On Thursday 19 June 2003 05:29 pm, w9ya wrote: Or i.e. yes, it was implied, otherwise why bring it up in a discussion about newbies ? (What is his point?, and how is it germane ?) I wasn't really trying to imply anything other than the fact that I am really not qualified to discuss whether the existing interface is any good because I never use it. I do think that Mandrake should do a better job informing people about urpmi, but that is another issue, and is also largely up to us to do something about. I just find it interesting how such a simple thing is so divisive, and also how easy people think Windows is. You don't install and remove packages in the same place in Windows, there is no way to query the system to see what is installed, yet many long time Windows users insist that package management in Windows is easier. I continue to maintain, and you can disagree with me, that Windows software just seems easier because it is familiar.
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Friday 20 June 2003 03:18 am, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 w9ya wrote: On Thursday 19 June 2003 04:50 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: So packages on a CD don't count? Again, I do agree that users should be able to see what software is installed, but -kpackage does do this, as does gnorpm (if it will currently build or work with rpm-4.2) The *point* was, that new users should/might want to have one gui based utility do this. Or at least that was my point. One program for the user to run, not several. (Hint, I am not disagreeing with you on this point, read the paragraph above the one you are replying to). -The majority of software a user is going to use, they should be able to find quite quickly Some yes, some no. That was the basis we were talking about. Maybe the real problem is people assuming that Mandrake is as bad as otehr distros that don't install a CD-writing app when a CD-writer is found. -You did claim windows was point-and-click-easy, so why does my girlfriend install software easily under Mandrake, but not under Windows? There is no global catalog of available software on Windows in any case. One example. Again the *point* was to consider making it one program. Not in the context of this paragraph, which was in response to your claims that software installation is trivial under Windows. I lost about 50MB of important data since my previous backup, to a setup.exe which on uninstall took all the files in the same folder with it, and the person who installed it had kindly installed it on the root of my D: drive, which contained all my data. One that can both scan for installed and not installed programs. On this I thought we agreed several posts ago. Has that changed ? No. Well now I am confused, or do you like to argue both sides of the coin ? You made some statements which I disagreed with, but you don't seem to notice that I don't disagree with your main point. In summary - -the fact that some people here find urpmi more convenient doens't mean we think newbies should use it, but it means we don't use rpmdrake much - -Windows isn't much better (it doesn't show me alternative media players like winamp when I click any Add/remove programs menu. Installing softare from the network is possible if you have an Active Directory domain, but each piece of software (that doesn't support MSI files) needs to be specially prepared for this. (BTW, this is why I think urpmi should have LDAP support ...). Software you uninstall sometimes doesn't get removed from the list of installed software. Software installation and uninstallation can be unpredictable. Not all software installs itself into the list of installed software (yes, even ones where you run a real setup.exe). - -It would be nice if by default rpmdrake would show software that is installed. IMHO, there should be an options dialog, which has things like show installed software in searches. Is there any reason why installed software can not be under a seperate branch of the tree view? Any reason it can't be in the same program, from a user's perspective ? Bob P.S. I am choosing to not respond to your previous comments, as this has gone on way beyond a circular argument. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+8sM7rJK6UGDSBKcRAu0kAKCf5J2MiCB3b5qjLVLtb8AwAwmwHwCfdhrR m7r6KxRG+2RXDFxSLLC+20I= =BsQV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
[Cooker] x86-64 desktop? Was: Development extranet for non-Intel builds [ALPHA:SPARC]
On Tue 10 Jun 2003 02:56, Warly posted as excerpted below: We, mandrakesoft, are very happy and enthusiast to see people working on other architectures or even creating new ports. However, some mandrakesoft developers may be reluctant to do extra work for non officially supported archs, when they do not even have enough time for the job they are supposed to do, this is understandable. However do not think we do not care, and I will try to help as much as I can any initiative like yours. I've been following this thread fairly closely, because I've been thinking about upgrading next to an x86-64 for my desktop. I'm hoping to get a dual processor board, altho I'd install only a single CPU initially and upgrade to the second later. Anyway.. what I'm wondering, since I like to keep cookerized, is what status Mandrake is going to be, for the desktop, for the Athlon-64 when it comes out for the desktop. Am I going to be better off just upgrading to the plain old 32 bit Athlon (probably dual CPU)? I'd also thought that altho I hadn't done the club thing, I'd probably do it at that, as I really couldn't justify NOT doing it at that point, particularly if I was spending all that $$ on hardware and if Mdk was going to have a decent distrib for it. I don't know how many others there are out there willing to pay, but I'm certainly planning on it if I go to that and Mdk is available at cooker update frequencies. Alternatively, I've been looking at Gentoo, if I'm going to have to compile everything myself anyway.. (Right now, my CPU, formerly overclocked, can't handle that sort of full time 100% CPU without crashing at some point. I've been trying to nurse it along until the Athlon 64 comes out, but if Mdk isn't going to aim for the desktop on it in a cookerized version, I'm going to have to change my plans somehow or other, I'm not sure how yet.) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] Re: Reporting bugs
Olav Vitters wrote: I have an account, and can login, and search bugs. Where it fails is when I try to post a bug. I complete the (new bug) form, and then select the Commit button. The form appears to post, and I get another page MandrakeSoft Bugzilla; Bugzilla Message. In the message area, it says Posting Bug, and there it sits (forever). If I try to use the preset queries: My Bugs, I get a page that tells me Zarro Boogs found. How long did you wait at the 'Posting Bug' page. It should refresh after it has posted your bug. Can you try to wait 3 minutes (excessive, should be ~15 secs)? 10 minutes, and still Posting Bug Do you use a proxy server? I know privoxy can change/break html pages. Nope, no proxy. Thanks, S
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Friday 20 June 2003 03:18 am, Buchan Milne wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 w9ya wrote: On Thursday 19 June 2003 04:50 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: So packages on a CD don't count? Again, I do agree that users should be able to see what software is installed, but -kpackage does do this, as does gnorpm (if it will currently build or work with rpm-4.2) The *point* was, that new users should/might want to have one gui based utility do this. Or at least that was my point. One program for the user to run, not several. (Hint, I am not disagreeing with you on this point, read the paragraph above the one you are replying to). -The majority of software a user is going to use, they should be able to find quite quickly Some yes, some no. That was the basis we were talking about. Maybe the real problem is people assuming that Mandrake is as bad as otehr distros that don't install a CD-writing app when a CD-writer is found. -You did claim windows was point-and-click-easy, so why does my girlfriend install software easily under Mandrake, but not under Windows? There is no global catalog of available software on Windows in any case. One example. Again the *point* was to consider making it one program. Not in the context of this paragraph, which was in response to your claims that software installation is trivial under Windows. I lost about 50MB of important data since my previous backup, to a setup.exe which on uninstall took all the files in the same folder with it, and the person who installed it had kindly installed it on the root of my D: drive, which contained all my data. One that can both scan for installed and not installed programs. On this I thought we agreed several posts ago. Has that changed ? No. Well now I am confused, or do you like to argue both sides of the coin ? You made some statements which I disagreed with, but you don't seem to notice that I don't disagree with your main point. In summary - -the fact that some people here find urpmi more convenient doens't mean we think newbies should use it, but it means we don't use rpmdrake much - -Windows isn't much better (it doesn't show me alternative media players like winamp when I click any Add/remove programs menu. Installing softare from the network is possible if you have an Active Directory domain, but each piece of software (that doesn't support MSI files) needs to be specially prepared for this. (BTW, this is why I think urpmi should have LDAP support ...). Software you uninstall sometimes doesn't get removed from the list of installed software. Software installation and uninstallation can be unpredictable. Not all software installs itself into the list of installed software (yes, even ones where you run a real setup.exe). - -It would be nice if by default rpmdrake would show software that is installed. IMHO, there should be an options dialog, which has things like show installed software in searches. Is there any reason why installed software can not be under a seperate branch of the tree view? Any reason it can't be in the same program, from a user's perspective ? Bob P.S. I am choosing to not respond to your previous comments, as this has gone on way beyond a circular argument. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+8sM7rJK6UGDSBKcRAu0kAKCf5J2MiCB3b5qjLVLtb8AwAwmwHwCfdhrR m7r6KxRG+2RXDFxSLLC+20I= =BsQV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Thursday 19 June 2003 04:50 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: quote who=w9ya On Wednesday 18 June 2003 04:27 am, Buchan Milne wrote: find it easier as one. Personally I never use it since urpmi is my best freind now Oh yeah, teach them urmpi and command line...lol. Did Greg even vaguely suggest anyone else should use urpmi? Please, if you don't visit the list often (as you state), at least *read* the posts? Not nice. In hindsight, no ... Now go do like your mother might suggest; and wash your mouth out with soap. I have better things to do ... Or i.e. yes, it was implied, otherwise why bring it up in a discussion about newbies ? To indicate that he is not an authority on the uses and abuses of rpmdrake, since, like many cookers, he uses urpmi more than rpmdrake ... Sorry if this sounds harse, but it was you that suggested that I ..should at least *read* the posts Did I miss something? I don't disagree with your points here. I was only trying to say that at one point, installing Windows software is now easy because people are used to it after all these years. At one point, they didn't know how to do it there either, but they had to learn. Well for the last 5 years or more, installing in Windows is point and click on a single icon for downloaded programs. You mean on Windows I actually have to download files? How? Where? What if I don't like this one, where do I find another one? And if I can install it like that, can I uninstall it like that? And why, if I can uninstall everything in one place, can't I install everything from the same place? And what about files called .msi files? Anyway, on Mandrake, you can just double click on any rpm you downloaded, and it will install it, and anything it needs. Unfortunately, double clicking on an rpm on a CD still gives some problem Um, again we were discussing a newbie using the rpmdrake tools to download, and additionally to use them as a basis to discover what software might be installed. In that context, I will just have to disagree with your assessment of the problem, as this concerns rpmdrake and not a download sitting on a desktop or otherwise easily seen by a user , logged in as such user. So packages on a CD don't count? Again, I do agree that users should be able to see what software is installed, but -kpackage does do this, as does gnorpm (if it will currently build or work with rpm-4.2) The *point* was, that new users should/might want to have one gui based utility do this. Or at least that was my point. One program for the user to run, not several. -The majority of software a user is going to use, they should be able to find quite quickly Some yes, some no. That was the basis we were talking about. -You did claim windows was point-and-click-easy, so why does my girlfriend install software easily under Mandrake, but not under Windows? There is no global catalog of available software on Windows in any case. One example. Again the *point* was to consider making it one program. One that can both scan for installed and not installed programs. On this I thought we agreed several posts ago. Has that changed ? The real competition here IMHO is (from what I hear) Lindows (who has it easy AFAIK since they run as root so there never are any problems regarding rights etc) and possibly SuSE. Redhat also has a simple interface, that does also show you what is installed, but there it is definitely not fine-grained enough. Well now I am confused, or do you like to argue both sides of the coin ? Bob Regards, Buchan
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Friday 20 June 2003 08:02 am, Greg Meyer wrote: Forward to Cooker. I did it again. On Friday 20 June 2003 12:38 am, w9ya wrote: Well the issues you are talking about : package management and query have little to nothing to do with the actual installation process in ANY operating system from a user's standpoint. So I think the real issue we have been talking about is NOT installation at all. But the rpm-drake stuff tries to BOTH install AND manage packages without a clear understanding that a user *would* think it is too hard to install linux programs when the gui tools are not made clean and easy for him to use. This is your opinion, not a fact, but your opinion that I and others disagree with. It may be supported by some anecdotal evidence, but that does not change the fact that it is an opinion. No one, including you and LX have done any market research that has any kind of validity to it that says a result, one way or another. LX's beef, from what I gather, isn't so much abour rpmdrake as it is about Mandrake Developers not listening to the votes of Club members. The parameters that I gathered my evidence under are this: user feedback to me.. To a large extent this is their opinions. Alot of users found the older rpmdrake easier to use. They had specific issues with a number of things in the new rpmdrake. I shared this with this the cooker community at large. I hope you are not discounting their opinions in any way. That could be counter-productive. Since I am in no position to influence the developer's, and not able to assist in the developement of any changes, I need to spend my time on other more valuable (to me) issues, so I am officially dropping out of this conversation. Um, well o.k. For me, it might be a long time before I share any other user feedback. This has been a disagreeable endeavor for me. Perhaps it is the way I was made to feel defensive about the info I shared ? Bob Finch
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed * software
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 14:37, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: It was never a simple matter because it involved the public at large, it *is* a free public debate involving history and different ideas about the best way for rpmdrake to function, and the fact that we all have different ideas on this subject means that everyone gets a chance to be heard. Which btw clears the way for me to state my case, and your personal vendetta against my personal self in that regard is irrelevant. This is why I haven't responded to your efforts to silence my voice before now; your irrelevance. The fact of the matter is that no matter what your preconceptions are, I now know for a fact that you are in the minority on this matter. I can't be more specific on that. If you've got a problem with me personally, then you start sending me email private, and I'll be more than glad to start dealing with you there. I have a preference for dealing with people face to face, because I find that in my personal experience it eliminates alot of overt long range pinhead arrogance on the part of the other person just about immediately. But in lieu of that, I'll take the next best thing. Does anyone have a pin? My detector of huge balloons of pomposity is registering off the scale. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Re: Re: [delete] cooker main changes
On Wed 11 Jun 2003 17:00, David Walser posted as excerpted below:
These packages shouldn't have been uploaded at all (I'm not sure if I was
the one who uploaded them..).. I'm just cleaning my packages..
From what I've been hearing on the list, rpm 4.2 generates those packages
automatically, and putting the following line in your spec file will
disable it:
%define debug_package %{nil}
So I guess if next time you update one of those packages you get that
-debug subpackage again, that's what you can do.
I'm not an rpm packager (yet), but from what I read, the cause is that rpm is
now parsing the comments for packages too (or something like that), and
certain things have to be escaped that were OK before. IIRC (just catching
up on the list and don't remember for sure from last week) it was either %%
or ## needed instead of the single. Or.. just put the define line in as
above..
--
Duncan - List replies preferred.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:50, w9ya wrote: I *AM* saying that a user watching me install could easily think it was too hard. And I will maintain that having to hit all these damn buttons, in the right order, to use the rpmdrake tool to find, get, and then install a program is MUCH harder than finding, getting, and installing a program in the windows world. I use both, and I have been using computers for 35 years. You will have to *exactly* explain to me how in a step by step fashion the current rpmdrake tools are actually easier. You have to hit loads of damn buttons in the right order to get and install software in Windows. You have to open IE, find the website for the program, download the installer to somewhere, know how to find and run it, find it and run it, agree to some ludicrous clickwrap license, then install it somewhere. That's *oodles* of buttons to hit. Which proves my point. Why be just as lame as Windows can be ? Why not improve and make a nice gui app, that handles ALL of what needs to be handled. No. I'm merely echoing the other person who made the important point that Windows is terrible in this very area and holding it up as an example is one thing we should *not* be doing. Well...for all programs that conform to the Add / Remove Programs thingy, yes there is. Sadly, this is by no means *all* programs. Well you can have bad rpms too. Not Mandrake ones. This is a crucially misunderstood point. People assume you ought to be able to install any rpm on any rpm-based distribution, which is quite simply wrong and not at all what the rpm format is designed for. Finally; and I cannot be any more specific that this. Why not make a better tool than Windows has, so new users can clearly see a superiority right off the bat. Make it gui and play in their world -view. I think rpmdrake already is that tool. Why? It's predictable. You only need to teach someone how rpmdrake and rpmdrake-remove work *once* and they can install and remove every single piece of software in Mandrake. They point is *NOT* to have to teach a newbie. But rather to have it be intuitive yet more functional than what they are use to. That is the goal. Are not we Linux users capable of striving for that ? I simply don't believe this is possible within the current context of how Linux, OS'es in more general terms and computers themselves work. *Anyone* sitting down in front of an unfamiliar computer is either going to have to receive instruction (through interaction or through documentation) or go through a painful process of trial and error. This isn't a good situation, but equally it isn't a situation that can be resolved by patching rpmdrake. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] x86-64 desktop? Was: Development extranet for non-Intelbuilds [ALPHA:SPARC]
Duncan wrote: I've been following this thread fairly closely, because I've been thinking about upgrading next to an x86-64 for my desktop. I'm hoping to get a dual processor board, altho I'd install only a single CPU initially and upgrade to the second later. Anyway.. what I'm wondering, since I like to keep cookerized, is what status Mandrake is going to be, for the desktop, for the Athlon-64 when it comes out for the desktop. Am I going to be better off just upgrading to the plain old 32 bit Athlon (probably dual CPU)? I'd also thought that altho I hadn't done the club thing, I'd probably do it at that, as I really couldn't justify NOT doing it at that point, particularly if I was spending all that $$ on hardware and if Mdk was going to have a decent distrib for it. I don't know how many others there are out there willing to pay, but I'm certainly planning on it if I go to that and Mdk is available at cooker update frequencies. Alternatively, I've been looking at Gentoo, if I'm going to have to compile everything myself anyway.. (Right now, my CPU, formerly overclocked, can't handle that sort of full time 100% CPU without crashing at some point. I've been trying to nurse it along until the Athlon 64 comes out, but if Mdk isn't going to aim for the desktop on it in a cookerized version, I'm going to have to change my plans somehow or other, I'm not sure how yet.) I also hope we will se a lot of support for AMD64 platform. I've seen 2 2-way Opteron systems here az my university. They are performing some evaluation physical simulations on it and all are very happy with it and plan to buy more of them. I am also reading a lot about Athlon 64 and will almost for sure buy it in september. I like its features a lot and if it will be similar to opterons at university they are going to be great 32/64bit CPUs for desktop. And combined with kernel 2.6 it will be even better. So I hardly await Mandrake optimized for these CPUs and offcourse the CPU itself. -- Live long and prosper!
Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] urpmi-4.3-15mdk
On Sun 15 Jun 2003 11:11, Olivier Blin posted as excerpted below: No, it doesn't. What Han is asking for is this. Say you installed foo and urpmi pulled in libbar and libmoo as things foo depended on. If you then urpme foo, libbar and libmoo don't get uninstalled. If, however, you urpme'd libbar, foo *would* be uninstalled. That is, urpme uninstalls things that depend on the package you call to be urpme'd, but not things the package you call to be urpme'd depends upon. This isn't very safe if you compile and install yourself some packages that need either libbar or libmoo, instead of using urpmi. IMHO, there is no correct way to handle that :/ I think it should be like RPM in this regard. If it isn't in the rpm database, ignore it. Also, make the uninstall dependencies a switch, off by default, for safety. Only those that wish to risk whatever unpredictable behavior in the form of lost libraries in ordered to keep a cleaner system should then have to worry, and they will have deliberately chosen that route if they run with that switch. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Fri Jun 20 11:22 -0500, w9ya wrote: Finally; and I cannot be any more specific that this. Why not make a better tool than Windows has, so new users can clearly see a superiority right off the bat. Make it gui and play in their world -view. The beauty of Open Source and Free Software is that you can scratch your particular itch easily. Hack up an addition to rpmdrake and contribute it. The source to current rpmdrake is available; copy from that as much as you like (obviously this would require that your code be GPL'd). If you don't know Perl already, well, this will be a learning experience (Perl looks very good on resumes and so forth, from what I've heard). -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Currently playing: Rush - Presto - Available Light Linux 2.4.21-0.15mdk 13:52:00 up 10 days, 13:07, 12 users, load average: 0.09, 0.20, 0.21
[Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] kernel2.4-marcelo-2.4.21-2mdk
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 03:30, Juan Quintela wrote: --=-=-= Name: kernel2.4-marceloRelocations: (not relocateable) Version : 2.4.21Vendor: MandrakeSoft Juan, How long until the Mandrake version of 2.4.21 is out? Lonnie
Re: [Cooker] Everything not back up yet?
On Fri Jun 20 6:52 -0400, David Walser wrote: ftp.uninett.no appears to not have anything updated since before Cooker's recent daylong silence. mandrake.redbox.cz missed a day, but I'm updating from there at the moment... try again? -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Currently playing: Rush - Presto - Available Light Linux 2.4.21-0.15mdk 14:01:00 up 10 days, 13:16, 12 users, load average: 0.13, 0.16, 0.17
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Friday 20 June 2003 12:22 pm, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:50, w9ya wrote: I *AM* saying that a user watching me install could easily think it was too hard. And I will maintain that having to hit all these damn buttons, in the right order, to use the rpmdrake tool to find, get, and then install a program is MUCH harder than finding, getting, and installing a program in the windows world. I use both, and I have been using computers for 35 years. You will have to *exactly* explain to me how in a step by step fashion the current rpmdrake tools are actually easier. You have to hit loads of damn buttons in the right order to get and install software in Windows. You have to open IE, find the website for the program, download the installer to somewhere, know how to find and run it, find it and run it, agree to some ludicrous clickwrap license, then install it somewhere. That's *oodles* of buttons to hit. Which proves my point. Why be just as lame as Windows can be ? Why not improve and make a nice gui app, that handles ALL of what needs to be handled. No. I'm merely echoing the other person who made the important point that Windows is terrible in this very area and holding it up as an example is one thing we should *not* be doing. Well...for all programs that conform to the Add / Remove Programs thingy, yes there is. Sadly, this is by no means *all* programs. Well you can have bad rpms too. Not Mandrake ones. This is a crucially misunderstood point. People assume you ought to be able to install any rpm on any rpm-based distribution, which is quite simply wrong and not at all what the rpm format is designed for. Now that is very funny. There aren't any bad Mandrake rpms. and just not possible to create one eh ? Finally; and I cannot be any more specific that this. Why not make a better tool than Windows has, so new users can clearly see a superiority right off the bat. Make it gui and play in their world -view. I think rpmdrake already is that tool. Why? It's predictable. You only need to teach someone how rpmdrake and rpmdrake-remove work *once* and they can install and remove every single piece of software in Mandrake. They point is *NOT* to have to teach a newbie. But rather to have it be intuitive yet more functional than what they are use to. That is the goal. Are not we Linux users capable of striving for that ? I simply don't believe this is possible within the current context of how Linux, OS'es in more general terms and computers themselves work. *Anyone* sitting down in front of an unfamiliar computer is either going to have to receive instruction (through interaction or through documentation) or go through a painful process of trial and error. This isn't a good situation, but equally it isn't a situation that can be resolved by patching rpmdrake. We should respectfully disagree on this. Bob
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
On Friday 20 June 2003 12:56 pm, Levi Ramsey wrote: On Fri Jun 20 11:22 -0500, w9ya wrote: Finally; and I cannot be any more specific that this. Why not make a better tool than Windows has, so new users can clearly see a superiority right off the bat. Make it gui and play in their world -view. The beauty of Open Source and Free Software is that you can scratch your particular itch easily. Hack up an addition to rpmdrake and contribute it. The source to current rpmdrake is available; copy from that as much as you like (obviously this would require that your code be GPL'd). If you don't know Perl already, well, this will be a learning experience (Perl looks very good on resumes and so forth, from what I've heard). Thank you. This is among the few intellegent responses I have seen so far. (You have restored my faith.) Bob Finch
RE: [Cooker] Everything not back up yet?
Any word on mirror.mcs.anl.gov? Haven't had a successful update in two days... Cory -Original Message- From: Levi Ramsey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Everything not back up yet? On Fri Jun 20 6:52 -0400, David Walser wrote: ftp.uninett.no appears to not have anything updated since before Cooker's recent daylong silence. mandrake.redbox.cz missed a day, but I'm updating from there at the moment... try again? -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Currently playing: Rush - Presto - Available Light Linux 2.4.21-0.15mdk 14:01:00 up 10 days, 13:16, 12 users, load average: 0.13, 0.16, 0.17 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003
Re: [Cooker] Everything not back up yet?
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 20:01, Levi Ramsey wrote: mandrake.redbox.cz missed a day, but I'm updating from there at the moment... try again? lip6.fr is just deluging me with a mass of files at the moment. -- Dave Cotton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed*software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 w9ya wrote: On Friday 20 June 2003 03:18 am, Buchan Milne wrote: In summary - -the fact that some people here find urpmi more convenient doens't mean we think newbies should use it, but it means we don't use rpmdrake much - -Windows isn't much better (it doesn't show me alternative media players like winamp when I click any Add/remove programs menu. Installing softare from the network is possible if you have an Active Directory domain, but each piece of software (that doesn't support MSI files) needs to be specially prepared for this. (BTW, this is why I think urpmi should have LDAP support ...). Software you uninstall sometimes doesn't get removed from the list of installed software. Software installation and uninstallation can be unpredictable. Not all software installs itself into the list of installed software (yes, even ones where you run a real setup.exe). - -It would be nice if by default rpmdrake would show software that is installed. IMHO, there should be an options dialog, which has things like show installed software in searches. Is there any reason why installed software can not be under a seperate branch of the tree view? Any reason it can't be in the same program, from a user's perspective ? By branch, I meant an entry in a tree, with more branches (subtrees) or leaves below it, so if you have strated rpmdrake in install mode: +Development +Graphical Environment +Server +Workstation +*Installed Packages* Or, possibly, uninstalled packages should only be show on search, in which case: +Development +Graphical Environment +Server +Workstation +Search results +-result1 +-result2 ++Installed software +-installed result1 This neatly gets around at least one of those problems, and shouldn't add too much complexity to the UI (though it might to the backend). Anyway, a UI review would probably want to look at other interfaces. == rpmdrake 1.4 - ftp://mandrake.redbox.cz/Mandrake-old/8.2/i586/tutorial/SoftwareMgr/images/rpmdrake14.gif I think the big problem with the UI in rpmdrake 8.2 (the one in C) was that there was an installed tab, and an installable tab. Many people missed these, and had to be explained to how they could see which software was installed, and how to remove it. Also, the fact that you could select software for installation and uninstallation simultaneously (possibly unknowingly, and the UI subsequently hiding it from you) was a problem. Also, the details window was too small to use easily, even on a relatively large screen when maximised. Support for verifying files in an rpm easily was a nice feature though :-(. Synaptic - http://distro.conectiva.com.br/prjs/synaptic/filter.jpg (I don't know how recent this is ...) Ok, even for a pretty advanced user, this is serisously complicated, and overly so (IMHO). The UI toolkit is also at odds with anything most users will be using most of the time (in terms of widgets, colours, themes etc). What is it? Motif? Athena? Red Hat - --- http://www.redhat.com/img/linux_ss_per_install1.gif IMHO, way too simplistic, it is trying to be too much like the components of Windows 2000 Server, and is almost as bad at not allowing fine enough choices (though this may be a consequence of the RH packaging, for example requiring the server side of samba installed just to use the winbind authentication bits on a desktop in a windows domain). I don't see any version information, and I don't know if multiple sources can be used or if you can see any details on a package or search easily. SuSE - I haven't used SuSE much, and can't find a screenshot now ... GnoRPM - -- http://www.daa.com.au/~james/software/gnorpm/gnorpm-0.6.gif I endured much pain under GnoRPM on RH6.x and Mandrake 7.x. The only good thing it ever had going for it was displaying the icons stored in the RPM, but I haven't seen many RPMs with those in recent times ... Kpackage - (I void kpackage, since it makes a mess of double-clicking on rpms to get gurpmi going, which is generally a better option): http://www.general.uwa.edu.au/u/toivo/kpackage/snapshot4.png The UI is more comples than rpmdrake 1.4, search capability is hidden behind icons that don't look too intuitive. Checkboxes to select packages to install is also a bit more intuitive than the KDE checkmark. == BTW, if anything constructive is going to come from this, someone needs to put this somewhere where it won't be forgotten, either in a wiki of some description (cooker?) or in bugzilla (BTW, this is one of my issues with hugs discussions on cooker, they get lost if no-one takes the effort to document them, which is possibly why bugzilla or the cooker wiki is a better forum). Anyway, final comments on rpmdrake as it currently is: 1a)Could we have a toolbar, instead of the huge banner, from which
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
On 20 Jun 2003, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: I thought it might be as funny in english as it is in french. Oh well. it was ;)
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed*software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 w9ya wrote: On Friday 20 June 2003 12:22 pm, Adam Williamson wrote: Now that is very funny. There aren't any bad Mandrake rpms. and just not possible to create one eh ? Not without being spammed to death ;-) (I get more spam from rpm-bots than other spam, I think ... and that doesn't even include mails from users who send directly, bugzilla, or cooker mail). I simply don't believe this is possible within the current context of how Linux, OS'es in more general terms and computers themselves work. *Anyone* sitting down in front of an unfamiliar computer is either going to have to receive instruction (through interaction or through documentation) or go through a painful process of trial and error. This isn't a good situation, but equally it isn't a situation that can be resolved by patching rpmdrake. We should respectfully disagree on this. Well, until someone has objectively tested it and reported their results (with people who have *never* seen a computer before, no, not even DOS) I don't think there is a point arguing it ... Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+81W/rJK6UGDSBKcRAjB2AJ0avSJ7faDMJ7DrPybtUs+WmTTGfwCffVHP /2IDGswaWM4C2A1ufY8m5Ns= =SpSo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] Re: double-clicking on files directly from CD's
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20 Jun 2003, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: I thought it might be as funny in english as it is in french. Oh well. it was ;) I was just wondering if it was inteded or not ... ;-). - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+81YVrJK6UGDSBKcRAg6rAJ9aGa0UNN7wl55KWjq7cYsuHr99HQCfW4VH YRQanm34smOPJbkjYi3maX8= =+/di -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
Am Freitag, 20. Juni 2003 20:26 schrieb Buchan Milne: [... UI review ] SuSE - I haven't used SuSE much, and can't find a screenshot now ... Here I can help out. http://www.suse.de/~sh/YaST2-Package-Manager/screen-shots.html .This is from SuSE 8.1 as far as I understood. (http://lwn.net/Articles/10061/) Steffen
[Cooker] konqueror icon preview
I noticed something odd with my icon preview in konqueror, I have not been getting them but I also have not been getting the crash handler for every icon it tries to create. I rm'ed my .qt dir and now I am. Anyone getting any closer to a solution on this annoyance? -- Jason Straight [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 1796276 pgp: http://www.JeetKuneDoMaster.net/~jason/pubkey.asc
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
well, can you place your document on the wiki ? Synaptic http://distro.conectiva.com.br/prjs/synaptic/filter.jpg (I don't know how recent this is ...) very very old :) Ok, even for a pretty advanced user, this is serisously complicated, and overly so (IMHO). The UI toolkit is also at odds with anything most users will be using most of the time (in terms of widgets, colours, themes etc). What is it? Motif? Athena? It is Wings, a toolkits used by Windowsmaker. this is not a recent screenshot, they switched to gtk. I think, for a advanced user, it is perfect. I have show this to some debian users ( who did even know that a gui was availiable ) , and we didn't have any problem with it. First time I used it :) On the other hand, for a perfect newbie, it is more complicated, for sure. -- Michaël Scherer
Re: [Cooker] Re: rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed * software
On Friday 20 June 2003 13:34, Michael Scherer wrote: On Friday 20 June 2003 12:51, Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote: Maybe providing synaptic with MDK could solve the request for another interface for these things. Is there a possiblility to do that? I know that synaptic uses a special database of packages that you need to set up at some repository, but I have done that for redhat and it is not a big deal. So what would it take to provide synaptic, eg in the contrib section? yes, synaptics srpm is ready, just wait on apt-get on cooker. I will upload a spec somewhere tonight. http://scherer.michael.free.fr/synaptic-0.35.1-1mdk.src.rpm It should build cleanly on a 9.1 system. If i have time, i will try to update apt-get on cooker. -- Michaël Scherer
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed*software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steffen Barszus wrote: Am Freitag, 20. Juni 2003 20:26 schrieb Buchan Milne: [... UI review ] SuSE - I haven't used SuSE much, and can't find a screenshot now ... Here I can help out. http://www.suse.de/~sh/YaST2-Package-Manager/screen-shots.html .This is from SuSE 8.1 as far as I understood. (http://lwn.net/Articles/10061/) Thanks. IMHO, the fact that you need 17 screenshots says enough about it's complexity, and although there seem to be some nice features (disk-free-space meter and it seems to be able to show details from different versions of packages side-by-side) and it looks professional in some respects, is IMHO a bit complex. But I guess I should actually try it (but I don't think I will have time ..). Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+82JSrJK6UGDSBKcRAnTmAJwPcewT7m1QIsKJXSkApSXj/awHZACeLoKe B9/BkOfMsDjKdugKf/e/hNQ= =47FH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -It would be nice if by default rpmdrake would show software that is installed. IMHO, there should be an options dialog, which has things like show installed software in searches. It's a good idea[1] but I still don't see how to integrate well an options dialog. I don't want to add a menubar nor a toolbar just for that. I was thinking I was going to show installed software as well in searches by default, I think it should be ok for beginners. Ref: [1] I haven't implemented yet the backend to show installed software, because after thinking I'm actually thinking it will be a bit more complicated to do than expected, because the special treeview I use is shared (from ugtk2.pm) with the install and with the services configurator, and it's meant to contain consistent selectable entries.. but of course that's only a technical point, it's possible -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
[Cooker] [Bug 4094] [mc] New: pressing enter on some pdf files causes mc to mess up the display
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4094 Product: mc Component: mc Summary: pressing enter on some pdf files causes mc to mess up the display Product: mc Version: 4.6.0-3mdk Platform: PC OS/Version: All Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: trivial Priority: P5 Component: mc AssignedTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED] by default files with .pdf extensions are opened by xpdf. but on some pdf files xpdf puts this on std-out: LTK Error: Couldn't allocate color '#00 ' LTK Error: Couldn't allocate color '#f1f1f1 and this causes the window display to mess up.. easy to fix. in /usr/lib/mc/mc.ext change Open=xpdf %f to Open=xpdf %f /dev/null -- Configure bugmail: http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW, if anything constructive is going to come from this, someone needs to put this somewhere where it won't be forgotten, either in a wiki of some description (cooker?) or in bugzilla (BTW, this is one of my issues with hugs discussions on cooker, they get lost if no-one takes the effort to document them, which is possibly why bugzilla or the cooker wiki is a better forum). As for me, I'm ok with current situation: - mandrake developer agrees, she implements the feature/change and says so in the changelog and in the cvs of the app - mandrake developer doesn't agree, the information is somewhat lost but not really since mail archives have the thread if another troll is revived later on Anyway, final comments on rpmdrake as it currently is: 1a)Could we have a toolbar, instead of the huge banner, from which we could have access to an options dialog box, and possibly to the sources manager (sure, rpmdrake would have to reload lists afterwards, tough). or I don't like instead of. These have two different functions (the banner is simply a title, contains colours and icon so that beginner is not too frightened, whereas toolbar contains functional information). 1b)Have a checkbox for search in installed packages In my eternal quest for keeping rpmdrake UI-simple, I sort of don't want to add a toolbar or another checkbox if they are not very important.. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Hyperthreading Xeons...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Watts wrote: Viestissä Tiistai 3. Kesäkuuta 2003 19:11, Jan Ciger kirjoitti: On Tuesday 03 June 2003 15:57, Mark Watts wrote: Two questions: 1) Does any Mandrake kernel support Hyperthreading Xeons? Cooker and 9.1 do - at least my dual Xeon thinks so :-) It works fine, without any problems, it looks as if I had 4 CPUs instead of just two - just as any other SMP setup. b) Is there a fix for the IRQ Routing issues with 2.4.x on SMP boxes? No idea, but would be nice though Jan AFAIK it was fixed in 16mdk ... Thomas Interesting - I compiled 2.4.21-1rc1.1 today and neither irq routing or hyperthreading were working. 2.4.21-rc6-ac2 fixed the irq issue but I still don't get hyperthreading. I'm beginning to think its an issue with the ServerWorks chipset I'm running. Hmmm, we just got a Dell 1600SC with single 2GHz Xeon HT, and it shows only one CPU (in /proc/cpuinfo) when booted on the current updated smp kernel. Should /proc/cpuinfo show twice the number of instlled processors if HT works? Mark, did you resolve this? Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+82jhrJK6UGDSBKcRAgPvAJ9WbzBzPT7EnGwOh4ZVndLykrp8lACgrwbv tIxRzJTdRl+cDzkOd8MSxCM= =JhKy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
[Cooker] Apache2-2.0.46 redirect
Has anyone else noticed that Apache2-2.0.46 does not redirect, specifically with 'mantis' - http://mantisbt.sourceforge.net Any hints? -- Live fast, die young, You're sucking up my bandwidth. J.P. Pasnak, CD CCNA http://www.warpedsystems.sk.ca
[Cooker] Re: Everything not back up yet?
Thomas Backlund wrote: Viestissä Perjantai 20. Kesäkuuta 2003 13:52, David Walser kirjoitti: ftp.uninett.no appears to not have anything updated since before Cooker's recent daylong silence. Same goes for sunet.se wich means updates around the world has come to a complete stop... :-( Is the MDK Master Server up??? If so ... we need to inform sunet.se and uninett.no to restart their updatings... This is interesting. Some newer files have appeared today, but it's not fully caught up. Juan's new 2.4.21 marcelo kernel package hasn't shown up for example.
[Cooker] Re: x86-64 desktop? Was: Development extranet for non-Intel builds [ALPHA:SPARC]
I'm with you. My current plan is to get a dual AMD64 workstation in December. I hope to be able to run Cooker on it. Duncan wrote: I've been following this thread fairly closely, because I've been thinking about upgrading next to an x86-64 for my desktop. I'm hoping to get a dual processor board, altho I'd install only a single CPU initially and upgrade to the second later. Anyway.. what I'm wondering, since I like to keep cookerized, is what status Mandrake is going to be, for the desktop, for the Athlon-64 when it comes out for the desktop. Am I going to be better off just upgrading to the plain old 32 bit Athlon (probably dual CPU)? I'd also thought that altho I hadn't done the club thing, I'd probably do it at that, as I really couldn't justify NOT doing it at that point, particularly if I was spending all that $$ on hardware and if Mdk was going to have a decent distrib for it. I don't know how many others there are out there willing to pay, but I'm certainly planning on it if I go to that and Mdk is available at cooker update frequencies. Alternatively, I've been looking at Gentoo, if I'm going to have to compile everything myself anyway.. (Right now, my CPU, formerly overclocked, can't handle that sort of full time 100% CPU without crashing at some point. I've been trying to nurse it along until the Athlon 64 comes out, but if Mdk isn't going to aim for the desktop on it in a cookerized version, I'm going to have to change my plans somehow or other, I'm not sure how yet.)
Re: [Cooker] shorewall error?
Thanks for giving me direction, I will try it when I will be back in work after weekend. (I have remote connection but I think that I would try it only once, because of automatic shorewall stop :-) thanks Jiri Cerny Florin wrote: have you tried shorewall check ?
[Cooker] Perl Getopt modules
First off, does anybody use the Getopt::Mixed module we have in contrib? That module was written in 1995 and hasn't been updated since 1995 or 1996. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Getopt::Long module that ships with perl does everything that module does. Second off, I just reported a bug in Getopt::Long to the author, and he's going to fix it. Since it's part of the perl package itself, would it be possible when he fixes it and releases the next version (I guess it'll hit CPAN) to update it in our Perl package? Thanks.
Re: [Cooker] rpmdrake and newbies: they sometimes miss *installed* software
Am Freitag, 20. Juni 2003 21:36 schrieb Buchan Milne: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steffen Barszus wrote: Am Freitag, 20. Juni 2003 20:26 schrieb Buchan Milne: [... UI review ] SuSE 8.1 as far as I understood. (http://lwn.net/Articles/10061/) Thanks. IMHO, the fact that you need 17 screenshots says enough about it's complexity, and although there seem to be some nice features (disk-free-space meter and it seems to be able to show details from different versions of packages side-by-side) and it looks professional in some respects, is IMHO a bit complex. But I guess I should actually try it (but I don't think I will have time ..). Regards, Buchan I'm following the thread since a while and I'm not sure yet what to think about it. I'm under the impression that it seems not clear who is the targeted person that tool is designed for. If it is for newbies the interface how it currently is can be fine, alltough I would not seperat that hard between software installation and deinstallation. Softwaremanagment is one task and can not be splitted. What I dislike is to list installed packages in the softwareinstaller. This is in total contrast to the actual design decission. It obsoltes the complete idea behind it. I'm against such a half made step. Either there is one interface for both and the seperation idea is not working or they are seperated. From the discussion I read it seems clear to me that the simplified interface does not work for people that have just a bit of knowledge. So having it that simplified would require a full featured softwaremanagment tool for the more advanced users. This is what I read out of the wish of having the old rpmdrake back and the discussion in this thread. Looking to the outside world only to interfaces are somewhat comperable to rpmdrake-1.4-alike. 1) synaptic - ( a newer screenshot from debian-3.0 : http://linuxinstall.org/screenshots/release-3.0/synaptic.jpg) It is for softwaremanagment , includes as far as I can see source managment and looks very powerfull to me. 2) yast2-softwareinstaller -- I guess the screenshots are saying enough. What in both is the same: They don't try to hide complexity. The only alternative currently for power-user is to use urpmi. And this is what people complain about. I can only say don't make half decissions. The screenshot of synaptic shows exactly how a power-user tool could looks like. It looks clean but powerfull. Adding complexity to a newbie-tool is awkward and breaking own made design decissions is bad. Steffen
Re: [Cooker] Re: x86-64 desktop? Was: Development extranet for non-Intel builds [ALPHA:SPARC]
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 22:50, David Walser wrote: I'm with you. My current plan is to get a dual AMD64 workstation in December. I hope to be able to run Cooker on it. Duncan wrote: I've been following this thread fairly closely, because I've been thinking about upgrading next to an x86-64 for my desktop. I'm hoping to get a dual processor board, altho I'd install only a single CPU initially and upgrade to the second later. Anyway.. what I'm wondering, since I like to keep cookerized, is what status Mandrake is going to be, for the desktop, for the Athlon-64 when it comes out for the desktop. Am I going to be better off just upgrading to the plain old 32 bit Athlon (probably dual CPU)? I'd also thought that altho I hadn't done the club thing, I'd probably do it at that, as I really couldn't justify NOT doing it at that point, particularly if I was spending all that $$ on hardware and if Mdk was going to have a decent distrib for it. I don't know how many others there are out there willing to pay, but I'm certainly planning on it if I go to that and Mdk is available at cooker update frequencies. Alternatively, I've been looking at Gentoo, if I'm going to have to compile everything myself anyway.. (Right now, my CPU, formerly overclocked, can't handle that sort of full time 100% CPU without crashing at some point. I've been trying to nurse it along until the Athlon 64 comes out, but if Mdk isn't going to aim for the desktop on it in a cookerized version, I'm going to have to change my plans somehow or other, I'm not sure how yet.) Quote properly PLEASE, David. You'll both be able to run Cooker quite happily whether or not it's compiled for the Athlon 64, because one of the main points of the Athlon 64 is it runs x86 32-bit code natively... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] Re: x86-64 desktop? Was: Development extranet for non-Intel builds [ALPHA:SPARC]
On Fri Jun 20 17:50 -0400, David Walser wrote: I'm with you. My current plan is to get a dual AMD64 workstation in December. I hope to be able to run Cooker on it. The Athlon 64 will run 32-bit apps natively. I've heard that in 32-bit it'll be at least as fast as an Athlon XP at the same clock. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Currently playing: Rush - Test for Echo - Virtuality Linux 2.4.21-0.15mdk 18:47:00 up 10 days, 18:02, 12 users, load average: 0.14, 0.25, 0.20
