date:19990202


 -Caveat Lector-

Netanyahu, Benjamin (Bibi) Israeli diplomat and Likud politician; Israeli
ambassador to UN 1984-1988; Israeli deputy foreign minister 1988-1991;
leader of Likud Party 1993--; wrote "Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies
Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorists" 1995; prime minister of
Israel 1996--; oversaw transfer of Hebron to Palestinians 1997; signed Wye
Memorandum with Yassir Arafat 1998 _1949--

Netanyahu, Benjamin
1949 --
Israeli politician and prime minister (1996-- ), born in Tel Aviv, Israel.
His family moved to the USA when he was a child, and he was educated at
Harvard and MIT. He joined the Israeli embassy in Washington, became
Israel's ambassador to the UN, and was elected to the Israeli parliament in
1988, becoming leader of the Likud Party in 1993. A hard-liner on security
issues, he campaigned on a platform of peace with security, and defeated
Shimon Peres by a narrow margin in the 1996 elections. He proved a popular
Israeli prime minister, but his hard-line politics strained relations with
the U.S. and damaged the Middle-east peace process.

Netanyahu, Yonatan (Yoni; also Jonathan Netanyahu) Israeli (US-born)
soldier; led commando raid to free hijacked airplane hostages at Entebbe
1976; only Israeli killed in raid; brother of Benjamin Netanyahu _1946-1976



via http://www.freeality.com/bio.htm

Where one can search on:

Search for Important People

Biographical Dictionary "Notable Citizens"
Biography "15,000 names"
Britannica "free Internet resource"
CelebSite "Find Your Star"
Colonial Hall "founding fathers"
Congressional Biographies Picture
Dead People Server Picture"celebrities"
Internet Movie Database "Bio"
Inventors Hall of Fame
NameBase Index
Newsmaker Bios Picture"ABC News"
Nobel Foundation
Presidential Gallery
TheHistoryNet
TVgen Picture"Film Biographies"
U.S. House of Representatives



AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Was Polio Vaccine Contaminated?

1999-02-02 Thread Bill Kingsbury


 -Caveat Lector-

 from:  http://www.chronicillnet.org/online/bensweet.html

 THE POLIO VACCINE AND SIMIAN VIRUS 40 AFTER THIRTY YEARS
 -
 Prominent Polio Vaccine Researcher Confirms
 Suspicions About Monkey-Virus Contamination
 ---
 By T.J. Moriarty - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 "This new virus represents the detection for the first time
 of a hitherto "non-detectable" simian virus of monkey renal
 cultures and raises the important question of the existence
 of other such viruses.  All three types of Sabin's live
 polio virus vaccine were contaminated."

 "Even the people who received a killed polio virus vaccine
 could have been infected.  Those papers we wrote were incorrect
 at the time, stating that formalin killed vaccines were free
 of simian SV40 virus.  But the new information regarding the
 killed ones was never published."  By then it was too late.

 ...competition between the Salk (killed) and Sabin (live)
 formulas.  Despite common knowledge, both Salk and Sabin were
 definitely contaminated.  The Salk vaccine had already
 garnered prestigious appeal as a "safe vaccine".

 ...the authors estimate somewhere between 10-30 million people
 of the 98 million injected were exposed to at least SV40.
 [ "Human Exposure to SV40 : Review and Comment" by Shah and
 Nathanson, Journal of Epidemiology, January 1976 ]

 ...current polio vaccines are still grown on African Green
 monkey tissues.

 "Is it only a coincidence that HIV infection manifested itself
 at the same time as the introduction of vaccines that are now
 known to have been contaminated with simian viruses?"
 [ "The Polio Vaccine and the Origin of AIDS" by
 Dr. R. Stricker, Medical Hypothesis, January 1994 ]

 "Who is minding the public health when the FDA allows drug
 companies to produce vaccines grown on animal tissue cultures
 and they don't even know if this practice is facilitating cross
 species transfer of animal viruses into man?"

 Over the past fifteen or more years, the immune system has been
 increasingly more challenged.  Indefensible disorders such as AIDS
 and HIV as well as conditions like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)
 and Persian Gulf War-Related Illnesses are the new epidemics of the
 Silicon Age.  By comparison, the days of polio and small pox
 epidemics seem crudely forgiving when we consider that today's
 viral mutants repeatedly outsmart gains made in vaccine development.

 However, it seems the days of polio are still with us -- not in the
 form of acute viral outbreaks of fever and paralysis -- but in the
 "uncharted" data on the long-term effects from the simian (monkey)
 viral contaminated polio vaccines given to countless children and
 adults three decades ago.  Even more, what other "undetectable"
 monkey viruses have been transmitted in the vaccine batches of
 late?  These unanswered questions continue to resurface in today's
 research and still riddle retired scientist Ben Sweet.  "No one
 really knows if there are any dangers, but no scientist can
 definitively say there aren't any, that is what's scary," says
 Sweet.

 As a senior research scientist for a major pharmaceutical company
 from 1959 to 1964, Dr. Sweet was one of those responsible for the
 research, development and field testing of the killed respiratory
 virus vaccine.


 Contaminated Polio Vaccines

 Scientific literature states that some polio vaccines given between
 1955 and 1961 may have contained low-levels of live monkey viruses.
 As many as 26 of the simian contaminants were readily detected but
 still other viruses, like SV40 slipped past rigorous quality
 control testing procedures available at that time.  The simian
 viruses were inadvertently introduced into the vaccine pool because
 the polio virus was grown in monkey (Rhesus, Patas, or Cynomolgus)
 kidney cells.

 In his 1960 paper, "The Vacuolating Virus : SV40" Sweet and
 co-author M.R. Hilleman write, "This new virus represents the
 detection for the first time of a hitherto "non-detectable" simian
 virus of monkey renal cultures and raises the important question of
 the existence of other such viruses.  All three types of Sabin's
 live polio virus vaccine were contaminated."

 Dr. Sweet told Chronic Illnet about the alarm that circulated
 around the discovery of the SV40 virus in 1960, "It was a
 frightening discovery because, back then, it was not possible to
 detect the virus with the testing procedures we had.  It only
 showed up in the cells of the African Green monkeys -- the species
 being used exclusively by our company.  We had no idea of what this
 virus would do thirty years ago."

 Sweet says there were two things that the research team had
 determined:  "First, we knew that SV40 had oncogenic properties
 (cancer-causing) in hamsters which was bad news.  Secondly, we

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

1999-02-02 Thread flw


 -Caveat Lector-

--

  What is interesting is that European Fascists also
claimed "victimhood".
  Derogation of Individual Freedom in the name of
Victimhood is a time honored
  Fascist Rite.

  "Fascism ends in concentration camps, it does not begin
with them".
  flw
   

 A friend of mine said the exact same thing to me today.
He said that the only
 difference between the US today and Nazi Germany is that
they got to wear
 "really cool uniforms" and we don't.  The Fourth Reich is
alive and well in
 the good old US of A.
 Teo1000

This is only true for some minorities and political views.
Otherwise,
the above statements are way exaggerated as far as most
Americans are concerned.

J2

Hmm. Many Germans thought the same thing in the early
1930's.
flw

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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[CTRL] Traditions and Doctrines

1999-02-02 Thread Lyn McCloskey


 -Caveat Lector-

My posting this article does not necessarily imply either an endorsement of
or a disagreement with its contents, but I do think it's very interesting.

Truth is not some cheap thing and therefore, whatever it is, it's most
likely NOT what we have been spoon-fed our entire life by giant hierarchies
of control (a.k.a. government, religion, media).  What's the difference
between what you believe, and what you know?

Caution:  May cause profound cognitive dissonance :)
---

from http://www.hiddenmeanings.com

TRADITIONS AND DOCTRINES

The things that we have always accepted as doctrine and have incorporated
into our way of life as tradition, my in fact mean something quite
different then we have been led to believe. Take a look at some of these
things that have become traditions to us and see where we may have actually
overlooked a healing truth by taking these things literally at the
insistence of our religious teachers. See what you think.

INDEX
WHY IS BAPTISM WRONG ?
HOLY COMMUNION BEGAN AS CANNIBALISM
CIRCUMCISION, WHY IS IT IN THE BIBLE ?
WHY WAS CIRCUMCISION REQUIRED IN THE BIBLE
CHRISTIANITY DISAGREES WITH THE BIBLE
EATING PORK
THE KING WHO KILLED THE LITTLE CHILDREN
BORN AGAIN
THE TRADITIONAL FAMILY, A DYING EVIL ?
WAS OUR LADY OF FATIMA, A MUSLIM ?
HELL IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD BY RELIGION
CULTS AND CULT LEADERS
ARE SATAN  GOD THE SAME PERSON ?
WHY WAS JESUS CRUCIFIED ?
WHY WAS JESUS BETRAYED FOR 30 PIECES OF SILVER ?
KARMA
BLOW THE SHOFAR
BACK TO INDEX
TO MASTER INDEX
BACK TO HOME PAGE


WHAT'S WRONG WITH BAPTISM ?

What's wrong with Baptism is the problem that the Bible itself realized and
thus warned us against it. We fail to understand it's true meaning. We thus
dip our head in water and think we are pleasing some God. God becomes
excited because our head is wet.? Isn't that silly.?

In Hebrews 6:1 the Bible admonishes us to get away from Baptism. The reason
is because by taking the symbol literally we miss the power of real
Baptism. In Greek there are 5 stages of consciousness. The lowest which is
the lower mind is Earth, the next which is meditation is Water, the third
which is the separation from thought is Air, the fourth which is the
encounter with God is fire and the 5th is the new mind.

Thus true Baptism is taking the Earth (head), into the water (meditation)
rising into the air (separating from thought), being touched by fire (God)
and receiving a new mind. This is the Baptism that Christianity knows
nothing about and why the Bible told them to stop. Notice the third stage
is Air. That is why the Bible says we will rise and meet Jesus in the Air.
In Consciousness !

So would true Baptism be the renewing of the mind by raising ones
consciousness or getting ones head wet ?


HOLY COMMUNION

Before the time of Osiris the tribes took Holy Communion in a very special
way. The wisest person in the tribe was sacrificed for the common good.
After the person was killed, the tribe ate him/her.

They believed that by eating the flesh and blood of the wisest person, they
would become wise too. The advent of Osiris is credited with having ended
communion in the form of cannibalism. Osiris was believed to rise from
death in the form of wheat. They would make bread from the wheat and beer
from the barley. Thus taking the flesh and blood of Osiris was by taking
the bread and the beer.

When this spread to Greece the God Osiris was replaced by the Greek God
Dionysus who was the God of wine. Thus taking the flesh and blood of God in
communion was by taking the bread and wine which continues to this day.
Of course we know that the New Testament was written in Greek. Now may we
better understand the origin of the words of Jesus in John 6:53 Then Jesus
said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of
the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


CIRCUMCISION

There is a great deal of debate over the physical aspects of circumcision
Regardless of the medical value, we must again fall back on 1 Cor 15:50 in
realizing that flesh and blood have no part in Gods Kingdom, which leaves
us to seek a deeper spiritual meaning to circumcision . Mystically the
lower part of the body representing the sexual area was always used in the
Bible to symbolize desire. (this for obvious reasons.)

If you will look at Genesis 32:25 you will see that the angel of God put
Jacobs thigh out and it was then that Jacob was delivered out of his
problem. His problem was depending on his own desires instead of trusting
to God. The thigh again representative of desire.

As Jesus teaches us to pray in Matthew 6, he tells us to enter the closet
and close the door. This means to separate ourselves from the desires of
the carnal mind. Five times in Matthew 6 Jesus says to "take no thought".
Again it is the eliminating of carnal thought in prayer.

This is referred to as "circumcision of the heart" Namely cutting

[CTRL] Doctor Injects Self With Deadly HIV (fwd)


 -Caveat Lector-

   MEDICAL DOCTOR PUTS HIS LIFE ON THE LINE
   TO PROVE THE HIV VIRUS DOES NOT CAUSE AIDS

From a full page ad in *The Spotlight*, September 12, 1994:


If you or someone you know has tested positive for the HIV virus,
there is now good news.

The chances you will get sick or die from AIDS are no greater
than if the test came out negative.

The *London Times* reports a major research group has recently
proven the test for the HIV virus (which is claimed to cause
AIDS) is completely invalid and "riddled with false positives".

Malnutrition, multiple infections, malaria, multiple sclerosis,
tuberculosis, having once had the "flu" or measles and even the
body's own natural response to anal semen all result in positive
HIV/AIDS tests. {1}.

Now the truth is finally revealed. When a completely normal and
healthy person tests positive for HIV, is then put on the deadly
drug AZT {2} -- they die. Death results from the destruction of
the immune system caused by the deadly drug AZT and not by HIV.

I interviewed Dr. Robert E. Willner, a medical doctor who has
practiced and lectured on medicine worldwide for over 35 years.
He recently stunned Spain by innoculating himself with the blood
of Pedro Tocino, an HIV positive hemophiliac. {3}. Dr. Willner is
the author of the just published blockbuster book *Deadly
Deception: The Proof That Sex And HIV Absolutely Do Not Cause
AIDS*.

Caption from an accompanying photograph:

Author of *Deadly Deception: The Proof That Sex And HIV
Absolutely Do Not Cause AIDS*, Dr. Robert E. Willner
stuns Spain by innoculating himself with the blood of
Pedro Tocino, an HIV positive hemophiliac. This
demonstration to prove the HIV virus does not cause AIDS
and is in fact harmless was reported on the front page
of every major newspaper in Spain. His appearance on
Spain's most popular television show evoked a 4 to 1
response by the viewing audience in favor of his
position against the "AIDS Hypothesis", yet this
historic event was never mentioned in the U.S. press...
Why?


 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +

Q:
Dr. Willner, you say in your book AIDS is the greatest fraud in
medical history. {4}. That the perpetrators of this crime are
raking in billions while innocent people are being murdered with
the deadly drug AZT. Is AIDS a scam?


A:
No, people are indeed dying of Acquired Immune Deficiency
Syndrome or AIDS. The scam is that AIDS is not caused by HIV and
AIDS is not transmitted sexually or by any other means.

The real causes of AIDS have been known for centuries and have
been listed in medical textbooks for over 60 years. We have all
been lied to and sold a bill of goods by a handful of
unscrupulous, immoral scientists that care more for money and
power than they do for the truth or human life itself.

Most of the medically supervised AIDS deaths were either caused
or contributed to by the deadly drug AZT. In many cases it was
given to perfectly normal and healthy individuals who were
terrorized by fear from the AIDS media blitz [CN -- or
"blitzkrieg" perhaps?] into taking the phony HIV test. When a
percentage got positive test results they were then given lethal
doses of AZT, a drug that was shelved over 20 years ago because
it was found to be too toxic to give to terminally ill cancer
patients.


Q:
We have been told all along that all AIDS patients had the HIV
virus and that is what causes AIDS.


A:
That is an absolute lie! The HIV/AIDS hypothesis was based on the
fact that only 40% of AIDS cases were confirmed by the Centers
for Disease Control to have *antibodies* to HIV and *not the
virus itself*. In New York and San Francisco only 7% of AIDS
victims were HIV positive. This means that 60 to 93% of all AIDS
patients that were used to create the AIDS hypothesis were HIV
*negative*.

The entire AIDS hypothesis is based upon a total lie. We were all
lied to when we were led to believe that 100% of AIDS victims
were HIV positive.


Q:
But how could this happen?


A:
To answer that question we must examine just exactly who created
this great lie. It was none other than Dr. Robert Gallo, who was
investigated and found guilty of "scientific misconduct". The
very same Dr. Robert Gallo who just a few years prior to AIDS
discovered what he called the HTLV virus. He claimed that HTLV
caused human leukemia but failed to gain scientific acceptance
because he could not prove it.

Gallo likewise claimed that HTLV was sexually transmitted and had
a latent period of 40 years.

That theory was rejected and failed to gain Dr. Gallo acceptance
into the National Academy of Sciences. His theories on AIDS are
just as fallacious and one cannot help but see the similarities
in the scenario.

However, this time instead of trying to prove his insane theories
about AIDS to

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order


 -Caveat Lector-

What i find most interesting with this current debate is the distinct
lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL community. In particular
regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know for sure we have a large
number of UK members on this list including the outspoken M.A.R.K.
(psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my comments (particularly Teo1000, flw, J2
and Alamaine).

With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout Europe
and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to the
presence
of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September 1993,
Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a council seat
in
East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he increased
his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists as a
bunch of
skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than then
on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs' does hold
true for
the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by small
cliques of, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi revival
is not just a
mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter, 1996),
but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway majority
opinion (take note Teo1000).

How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in a
Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most importantly, by not
appearing to be Nazi in origin (unlike M.A.R.Ks ridiculous suggestion
last week!!). In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the American Nazi
Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that:
"The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the mire of
the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he had
not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British public
were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must "hide behind
the
Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to go
public with a mass Nazi movement" (John Tyndall quoted in Gable, 1991).
Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall direction of
social norms) in Britain at the time and realised that declaring themselves
to be
openly Nazi, would do more harm to their cause than good. Around that
time, members of the NF stopped using the obviously Nazi sun-wheel symbol,
and adopted the Union Jack as their most prominent badge. Various Nazi
organisations throughout Europe have begun in this manner, using patriotism
to
get a foot in the door whilst maintaining good relations with other
secretly, or openly, Nazi groups at home or abroad.

We can see evident in the behaviour of neo-fascist outfits at least three
of the four behavioural styles proposed by Moscovici (1976). The first
two are
Consistancy and Rigidity. A minority that remains consistant in it's
argument is more likely to influence a majority, than one that is
inconsistant. The
Neo-Fascists remain undaunted in their convictions that events such as
the holocaust did not happen, their racist views and especially their
anti-Semitism
have lead Nazi Revisionists such as David Irving, for who the BNP supply
'bodyguards', to publish articles and books in an attempt to rewrite a
history
that is against them. In BNP literature a study by none other than Hans
Eysenck that appears to support the belief that whites are more intelligent
than
blacks, is constantly referred to without reference to criticisms of
Eysencks methodology, or reference to counter-arguments or alternative
interpretations
of the data. Labov's (1970) study into 'Black English' is a good example
of how scientists can interpret data incorrectly. Labov (1970) and Stewart
(1970)
both pointed out that many Afro-Americans speak a grammatically different
form of English. Since IQ tests are administered in Standard English, the
lower scores of Afro-Americans (which could be perceived as due to lower
intelligence) are probably due to their different dialect. There are far
more
general arguments, especially in recent years, rejecting the validity of
IQ tests and other psychometric testing altogether. Some psychologists,
such as
Gardener (1983), with his theory of multiple intelligence suggests that
poor performance on IQ tests could merely signify the absence or presence
of
specific types of intelligence. Also, interpretations of intelligence
test results are now considered relative to specific cultural context. Native
Americans and
Indians place greater importance on certainty, and would rather answer 'I
don't know' or 'I'm not sure' to a question if they are not absolutely
certain of
the answer. In Western culture, we are more likely to 'have a guess'
(Sinha 1983, Triandis 1989).

However, your average Neo-Fascist won't give two hoots about scientific
argument unless the conclusion supports his existing belief. The ideology
comes first and the Neo-Fascist looks for

Re: [CTRL] Doctor Injects Self With Deadly HIV (fwd)


 -Caveat Lector-

Thank you for this fascinating article.  May I have your permission to forward
it to a few off-list friends?
Samantha

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] [mindcontrol] Re: Wes Thomas and the Need for Genetic Improvement of the Plan... (fwd)


 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Kris Millegan wrote:

  Frank,

 Please do not keep us informed of your personal affrontations. They are off-
 topic and do not belong on this list. so keep it up or you can go whine about
 ME on some other lists.

Don't worry boss. I'll tow the line...for America online. You are about 50
posts behind the personal factor here which was resolved long ago. Now I
have to wonder if this list is a "prawn" in the AOL game, in other words a
little conpiracy against free internet expression in its own right. Didn't
AOL have a PR problem for a while because it was discontinuing service for
politically incorrect customers? Could it be that this list was then set
up to provide the illusion that AOL is a champion of free internet
expression. Just wondering boss. I don't want to make waves.
You see I have this little "thesis" in mind that internet free expression
is one of the biggest lies around in the Orwellian world which calls
itself the free world. What could be better than a lot of mind slaves on
the internet living with the delusion of free expression? By allowing them
to maintain that delusion the Establishment (of which AOL is a part)
avoids rebellion and protest.
FWP.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Exorcism

1999-02-02 Thread Stopforth, Jamie


 -Caveat Lector-

   Any priests try to do this to the president yet?  By the way...  Why do
Catholics keep altering their beliefs?  The Bible hasn't changed any...

 Jamie


 From Associated Press (via ABC)

 WIRE:Jan. 26, 1:27 p.m. ET
 Vatican updates rules for exorcisms, urging caution


 Picture

 AP News Service


 VATICAN CITY (AP) _ The Vatican issued new guidelines Tuesday  for driving
 out devils, urging exorcists not to mistake psychiatric  illness for
 diabolic possession _ but also stressing the power of  evil.

 The new exorcism rite, in Latin and contained in a red,  leather-bound,
 84-page book, also reflects Pope John Paul II's  efforts to convince the
 skeptical that the devil is very much in  the world.

 ``The existence of the devil isn't an opinion, something to take  or leave
 as you wish,'' said Cardinal Jorge Medina Estevez, a  Vatican official who
 presented the revisions. ``Anyone who says he  doesn't exist wouldn't have
 the fullness of the Catholic faith.''

 John Paul has denounced the devil in a series of recent homilies  as a
 ``cosmic liar and murderer.''

 In today's world, the cardinal said, the devil's force comes  through
 widespread acceptance of ``lies and deceit ... the idolatry  of money ...
 the idolatry of sex.''

 The new guidelines are the first revision to the exorcism rite  since
 1614.
 They did not drastically change the words or the  gestures used by
 exorcists, but they do provide optional texts for  priests to use.

 The novelty appears largely in the cautions offered to exorcists  to take
 psychiatric medicine into account.

 Exorcists must ``not think possessed by a demon someone who is  suffering
 from some illness, above all psychic,'' or who is ``the  victim of one's
 own imagination,'' the guidelines advise.

 Among the widely accepted signs of possession by the devil are  speaking
 in
 unknown tongues and demonstrating physical force beyond  one's natural
 capacity.

 The rite itself remains essentially the same. It involves making  the sign
 of the cross, laying on hands, sprinkling holy water and  ordering the
 devil to leave the possessed person.

 John Paul himself once performed an exorcism during his papacy,  according
 to the memoirs of Cardinal Jacques Martin, the former  prefect of the
 pontifical household.

 Quoting the late cardinal's book, ``My Six Popes,'' the Italian  news
 agency ANSA said John Paul carried out the rite in 1982,  driving out the
 devil from a woman who was brought to him writhing  on the ground.

 The new guidelines will eventually be translated into modern  languages.


 
 AER

 The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
 new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
 Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
 In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
 is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
 expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
 for non-profit research and educational purposes only.

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
 outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
 effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
 readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

[CTRL] Anti-Statism (set of ideas) Heh heh

1999-02-02 Thread J FROST


 -Caveat Lector-

Of course, NO ONE can represent everybody and NO ONE should be faulted
for not being omnipotent in this manner.  Libertarians CAN represent a
set of ideals though and those ideals are the issues to be looked at
when determining whether or not they are right for you.
==
Liberterians CAN represent a set of ideas
Nazis CAN represent a set of ideas

It is not "ideas" that political parties "represent"
It is LAWS politicial parties FORCE on the people.
They don't say "imagine" ... "think about it"...
Their only purpose is to IMPOSE SOMEONE'S WILL/AGENDA
on everyone else with the choice to
OBEY OR BE TRACKED DOWN, KNOCKED DOWN
ARRESTED, TRIED, IMPRISONED OR KILLED.
***
The only "ideas" that politicians communicate are do what we
demand or we will take your money and slam your ass in prison.

The question is Who's Ideas get represented in the end results?

#1  The Ideas of Some minority.
#2  The Ideas of The majority through direct democracy
#3  The Ideas of the majority through an indirect democracy
   (republic)
#4  The "IDEAS"/agendas of the Liberterians/politicians
   just like in any other dictatorship
#5  The Ideas of those who bribe the politicians.

Tell me who's IDEAS / AGENDAS / WILL do Liberterians represent?

Don't give me a bunch of blabber, just tell me which segment of society
1  2   3  4  5  that Liberterians represent?

.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] [mindcontrol] Re: Wes Thomas and the Need for Genetic ...


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-02-02 11:24:21 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Kris Millegan wrote:

Frank,
  
   Please do not keep us informed of your personal affrontations. They are
 off-
   topic and do not belong on this list. so keep it up or you can go whine
 about
   ME on some other lists.
  
  Don't worry boss. I'll tow the line...for America online. You are about 50
  posts behind the personal factor here which was resolved long ago. Now I
  have to wonder if this list is a "prawn" in the AOL game, in other words a
  little conpiracy against free internet expression in its own right.

If there are valid reasons to question the motives of list
owners/moderators, seems to me nothing could be MORE relevant to a conspiracy
discussion list.  We're not here to spare egos or feelings -- we're here to
try to sort the wheat from the chaff and get to the truth about vital matters.

We question the motives of government agencies and well-accepted dogmas.
We should be aware that infiltration of conspiracy discussion groups is not
only possible, but likely.  Motives ARE relevant.  Please free this list up to
discuss such matters.
Samantha

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Anti-Statism (set of ideas) Heh heh


 -Caveat Lector-

Again, the lack of knowledge on this list astonishes me. None of you can
manage to get a grip on what a Libertarian actually is!!

It is sometimes hard for non-libertarians to understand why libertarians
feel the way they do. Perhaps this parallel between libertarians and
vegetarians will help. There are many different reasons for being a vegetarian.
Some are vegetarians because they believe it is healthy, or inexpensive,
or that it conserves natural resources.

Consider those who are vegetarians because they don't want to be guilty
of killing animals. They don't have to watch the animals struggle, hear
their screams, or see their blood flow to know that to put meat on their
plate an animal had to die. It doesn't help to tell them the deaths are
painless or that the animals were bred and raised only for meat. To them it is
still killing and they want no part of it. They are fortunate to live in an
age when they can avoid it and maintain a normal life style. A hundred
years ago those who refused to wear leather shoes probably went barefoot.
They realize that they are a small minority and most people don't share
their feeling. Some practice their vegetarianism quietly while some argue and
march to convince
people that it's just plain wrong to kill animals.

There are many different reasons for being a libertarian. Some are
libertarians because they dislike being told what to do, or think that
politicians are crooks, or appreciate the wonders of a free market.

Consider those who are libertarians because they don't want to be guilty
of threatening violence to humans. They don't have to see the people
rotting in jail for victimless crimes, or feel the hard choices between health,
safety, and paying taxes. They know that behind every regulation or tax
there is the threat of violence or even death for disobedience. It doesn't
help to tell them that most taxes are painless or that the majority voted
to give their power to the government. To them it is still threatening
violence and they want no part of it. They are unfortunate to live in an age
when they cannot avoid it an maintain a normal life style. Those who
refuse to travel on government built roads are immobilized. They realize that
they are a small minority and most people don't share their feeling. Some
quietly practice their libertarianism while some argue and march to
convince people that it's just plain wrong to threaten violence to humans.


Richard B.

J FROST wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Of course, NO ONE can represent everybody and NO ONE should be faulted
for not being omnipotent in this manner.  Libertarians CAN represent a
set of ideals though and those ideals are the issues to be looked at
when determining whether or not they are right for you.
==
Liberterians CAN represent a set of ideas
Nazis CAN represent a set of ideas

It is not "ideas" that political parties "represent"
It is LAWS politicial parties FORCE on the people.
They don't say "imagine" ... "think about it"...
Their only purpose is to IMPOSE SOMEONE'S WILL/AGENDA
on everyone else with the choice to
OBEY OR BE TRACKED DOWN, KNOCKED DOWN
ARRESTED, TRIED, IMPRISONED OR KILLED.
***
The only "ideas" that politicians communicate are do what we
demand or we will take your money and slam your ass in prison.

The question is Who's Ideas get represented in the end results?

#1  The Ideas of Some minority.
#2  The Ideas of The majority through direct democracy
#3  The Ideas of the majority through an indirect democracy
   (republic)
#4  The "IDEAS"/agendas of the Liberterians/politicians
   just like in any other dictatorship
#5  The Ideas of those who bribe the politicians.

Tell me who's IDEAS / AGENDAS / WILL do Liberterians represent?

Don't give me a bunch of blabber, just tell me which segment of society
1  2   3  4  5  that Liberterians represent?

.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research

Re: [CTRL] Traditions and Doctrines

1999-02-02 Thread Harry Hendrickson


 -Caveat Lector-

Hello Lyn,
  I only wanted to ask you if the posting is what you believe. I know many
people who I discuss various myths and the website you mentioned is one of
them. But if you favor the info as closer to the truth than what the bible
has offered, that is of course your free choice. I never had a problem
believing the bible, only because I believe in God. I do believe God is
able to preserve His word to man through this book which has been long
argued over. Perhaps we can discuss further this most interesting and more
over, important topic. I would look forward to the opportunity, if you are
open for such.
Harry

--
 From: Lyn McCloskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [CTRL] Traditions and Doctrines
 Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:55 AM

  -Caveat Lector-

 My posting this article does not necessarily imply either an endorsement
of
 or a disagreement with its contents, but I do think it's very
interesting.

 Truth is not some cheap thing and therefore, whatever it is, it's most
 likely NOT what we have been spoon-fed our entire life by giant
hierarchies
 of control (a.k.a. government, religion, media).  What's the difference
 between what you believe, and what you know?

 Caution:  May cause profound cognitive dissonance :)
 ---

 from http://www.hiddenmeanings.com

 TRADITIONS AND DOCTRINES

 The things that we have always accepted as doctrine and have incorporated
 into our way of life as tradition, my in fact mean something quite
 different then we have been led to believe. Take a look at some of these
 things that have become traditions to us and see where we may have
actually
 overlooked a healing truth by taking these things literally at the
 insistence of our religious teachers. See what you think.

 INDEX
 WHY IS BAPTISM WRONG ?
 HOLY COMMUNION BEGAN AS CANNIBALISM
 CIRCUMCISION, WHY IS IT IN THE BIBLE ?
 WHY WAS CIRCUMCISION REQUIRED IN THE BIBLE
 CHRISTIANITY DISAGREES WITH THE BIBLE
 EATING PORK
 THE KING WHO KILLED THE LITTLE CHILDREN
 BORN AGAIN
 THE TRADITIONAL FAMILY, A DYING EVIL ?
 WAS OUR LADY OF FATIMA, A MUSLIM ?
 HELL IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD BY RELIGION
 CULTS AND CULT LEADERS
 ARE SATAN  GOD THE SAME PERSON ?
 WHY WAS JESUS CRUCIFIED ?
 WHY WAS JESUS BETRAYED FOR 30 PIECES OF SILVER ?
 KARMA
 BLOW THE SHOFAR
 BACK TO INDEX
 TO MASTER INDEX
 BACK TO HOME PAGE


 WHAT'S WRONG WITH BAPTISM ?

 What's wrong with Baptism is the problem that the Bible itself realized
and
 thus warned us against it. We fail to understand it's true meaning. We
thus
 dip our head in water and think we are pleasing some God. God becomes
 excited because our head is wet.? Isn't that silly.?

 In Hebrews 6:1 the Bible admonishes us to get away from Baptism. The
reason
 is because by taking the symbol literally we miss the power of real
 Baptism. In Greek there are 5 stages of consciousness. The lowest which
is
 the lower mind is Earth, the next which is meditation is Water, the third
 which is the separation from thought is Air, the fourth which is the
 encounter with God is fire and the 5th is the new mind.

 Thus true Baptism is taking the Earth (head), into the water (meditation)
 rising into the air (separating from thought), being touched by fire
(God)
 and receiving a new mind. This is the Baptism that Christianity knows
 nothing about and why the Bible told them to stop. Notice the third stage
 is Air. That is why the Bible says we will rise and meet Jesus in the
Air.
 In Consciousness !

 So would true Baptism be the renewing of the mind by raising ones
 consciousness or getting ones head wet ?


 HOLY COMMUNION

 Before the time of Osiris the tribes took Holy Communion in a very
special
 way. The wisest person in the tribe was sacrificed for the common good.
 After the person was killed, the tribe ate him/her.

 They believed that by eating the flesh and blood of the wisest person,
they
 would become wise too. The advent of Osiris is credited with having ended
 communion in the form of cannibalism. Osiris was believed to rise from
 death in the form of wheat. They would make bread from the wheat and beer
 from the barley. Thus taking the flesh and blood of Osiris was by taking
 the bread and the beer.

 When this spread to Greece the God Osiris was replaced by the Greek God
 Dionysus who was the God of wine. Thus taking the flesh and blood of God
in
 communion was by taking the bread and wine which continues to this day.
 Of course we know that the New Testament was written in Greek. Now may we
 better understand the origin of the words of Jesus in John 6:53 Then
Jesus
 said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh
of
 the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


 CIRCUMCISION

 There is a great deal of debate over the physical aspects of circumcision
 Regardless of the medical value, we must again fall back on 1 Cor 15:50
in
 realizing that

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

1999-02-02 Thread MARK


 -Caveat Lector-

Richard, how dare you claim these thoughts as your own, when they were
published in the Anti-Fascist leaflet "A Nation Under Threat"  freely
available in the Tower Hamlets area since the BNP's horrendous increase
in public awarenss.

I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU claim
them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.

M.A.R.K.

 -Original Message-
 From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: 02 February 1999 14:13
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

  -Caveat Lector-

 What i find most interesting with this current debate is the distinct
 lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL community. In
 particular
 regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know for sure we have a
 large
 number of UK members on this list including the outspoken M.A.R.K.
 (psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my comments (particularly
 Teo1000, flw, J2
 and Alamaine).

 With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout
 Europe
 and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to the
 presence
 of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September 1993,
 Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a
 council seat
 in
 East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he increased
 his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists as
 a
 bunch of
 skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than
 then
 on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs' does
 hold
 true for
 the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by
 small
 cliques of, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi
 revival
 is not just a
 mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter, 1996),
 but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway majority
 opinion (take note Teo1000).

 How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in a
 Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most
 importantly, by not
 appearing to be Nazi in origin (unlike M.A.R.Ks ridiculous suggestion
 last week!!). In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the American
 Nazi
 Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that:
 "The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the mire
 of
 the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he
 had
 not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British
 public
 were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must "hide
 behind
 the
 Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to go
 public with a mass Nazi movement" (John Tyndall quoted in Gable,
 1991).
 Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall direction
 of
 social norms) in Britain at the time and realised that declaring
 themselves
 to be
 openly Nazi, would do more harm to their cause than good. Around that
 time, members of the NF stopped using the obviously Nazi sun-wheel
 symbol,
 and adopted the Union Jack as their most prominent badge. Various Nazi
 organisations throughout Europe have begun in this manner, using
 patriotism
 to
 get a foot in the door whilst maintaining good relations with other
 secretly, or openly, Nazi groups at home or abroad.

 We can see evident in the behaviour of neo-fascist outfits at least
 three
 of the four behavioural styles proposed by Moscovici (1976). The first
 two are
 Consistancy and Rigidity. A minority that remains consistant in it's
 argument is more likely to influence a majority, than one that is
 inconsistant. The
 Neo-Fascists remain undaunted in their convictions that events such as
 the holocaust did not happen, their racist views and especially their
 anti-Semitism
 have lead Nazi Revisionists such as David Irving, for who the BNP
 supply
 'bodyguards', to publish articles and books in an attempt to rewrite a
 history
 that is against them. In BNP literature a study by none other than
 Hans
 Eysenck that appears to support the belief that whites are more
 intelligent
 than
 blacks, is constantly referred to without reference to criticisms of
 Eysencks methodology, or reference to counter-arguments or alternative
 interpretations
 of the data. Labov's (1970) study into 'Black English' is a good
 example
 of how scientists can interpret data incorrectly. Labov (1970) and
 Stewart
 (1970)
 both pointed out that many Afro-Americans speak a grammatically
 different
 form of English. Since IQ tests are administered in Standard English,
 the
 lower scores of Afro-Americans (which could be perceived as due to
 lower
 intelligence) are probably due to their different dialect. There are
 far
 more
 general arguments, especially in recent years, rejecting the validity
 of
 IQ tests and other psychometric testing altogether. Some
 psychologists,
 such as
 Gardener (1983), with his theory of multiple intelligence

Re: [CTRL] Traditions and Doctrines

1999-02-02 Thread L. Shipton


 -Caveat Lector-

I would be curious about what you think of this.
http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/EducationReligionandPropoganda.htm
Laura
AKA The Pied Piper

http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/Intro2.htm

-Original Message-
From: Harry Hendrickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Traditions and Doctrines


 -Caveat Lector-

Hello Lyn,
  I only wanted to ask you if the posting is what you believe. I know many
people who I discuss various myths and the website you mentioned is one of
them. But if you favor the info as closer to the truth than what the bible
has offered, that is of course your free choice. I never had a problem
believing the bible, only because I believe in God. I do believe God is
able to preserve His word to man through this book which has been long
argued over. Perhaps we can discuss further this most interesting and more
over, important topic. I would look forward to the opportunity, if you are
open for such.
Harry

--
 From: Lyn McCloskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [CTRL] Traditions and Doctrines
 Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:55 AM

  -Caveat Lector-

 My posting this article does not necessarily imply either an endorsement
of
 or a disagreement with its contents, but I do think it's very
interesting.

 Truth is not some cheap thing and therefore, whatever it is, it's most
 likely NOT what we have been spoon-fed our entire life by giant
hierarchies
 of control (a.k.a. government, religion, media).  What's the difference
 between what you believe, and what you know?

 Caution:  May cause profound cognitive dissonance :)
 ---

 from http://www.hiddenmeanings.com

 TRADITIONS AND DOCTRINES

 The things that we have always accepted as doctrine and have incorporated
 into our way of life as tradition, my in fact mean something quite
 different then we have been led to believe. Take a look at some of these
 things that have become traditions to us and see where we may have
actually
 overlooked a healing truth by taking these things literally at the
 insistence of our religious teachers. See what you think.

 INDEX
 WHY IS BAPTISM WRONG ?
 HOLY COMMUNION BEGAN AS CANNIBALISM
 CIRCUMCISION, WHY IS IT IN THE BIBLE ?
 WHY WAS CIRCUMCISION REQUIRED IN THE BIBLE
 CHRISTIANITY DISAGREES WITH THE BIBLE
 EATING PORK
 THE KING WHO KILLED THE LITTLE CHILDREN
 BORN AGAIN
 THE TRADITIONAL FAMILY, A DYING EVIL ?
 WAS OUR LADY OF FATIMA, A MUSLIM ?
 HELL IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD BY RELIGION
 CULTS AND CULT LEADERS
 ARE SATAN  GOD THE SAME PERSON ?
 WHY WAS JESUS CRUCIFIED ?
 WHY WAS JESUS BETRAYED FOR 30 PIECES OF SILVER ?
 KARMA
 BLOW THE SHOFAR
 BACK TO INDEX
 TO MASTER INDEX
 BACK TO HOME PAGE


 WHAT'S WRONG WITH BAPTISM ?

 What's wrong with Baptism is the problem that the Bible itself realized
and
 thus warned us against it. We fail to understand it's true meaning. We
thus
 dip our head in water and think we are pleasing some God. God becomes
 excited because our head is wet.? Isn't that silly.?

 In Hebrews 6:1 the Bible admonishes us to get away from Baptism. The
reason
 is because by taking the symbol literally we miss the power of real
 Baptism. In Greek there are 5 stages of consciousness. The lowest which
is
 the lower mind is Earth, the next which is meditation is Water, the third
 which is the separation from thought is Air, the fourth which is the
 encounter with God is fire and the 5th is the new mind.

 Thus true Baptism is taking the Earth (head), into the water (meditation)
 rising into the air (separating from thought), being touched by fire
(God)
 and receiving a new mind. This is the Baptism that Christianity knows
 nothing about and why the Bible told them to stop. Notice the third stage
 is Air. That is why the Bible says we will rise and meet Jesus in the
Air.
 In Consciousness !

 So would true Baptism be the renewing of the mind by raising ones
 consciousness or getting ones head wet ?


 HOLY COMMUNION

 Before the time of Osiris the tribes took Holy Communion in a very
special
 way. The wisest person in the tribe was sacrificed for the common good.
 After the person was killed, the tribe ate him/her.

 They believed that by eating the flesh and blood of the wisest person,
they
 would become wise too. The advent of Osiris is credited with having ended
 communion in the form of cannibalism. Osiris was believed to rise from
 death in the form of wheat. They would make bread from the wheat and beer
 from the barley. Thus taking the flesh and blood of Osiris was by taking
 the bread and the beer.

 When this spread to Greece the God Osiris was replaced by the Greek God
 Dionysus who was the God of wine. Thus taking the flesh and blood of God
in
 communion was by taking the bread and wine which continues to this day.
 Of course we know that the New Testament was written in

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order


 -Caveat Lector-

M.A.R.K. again, in your desperation to make me look foolish, you trip and fall upon 
your own dagger.
It was me  who wrote the 1992 leaflet 'A Nation Under Threat', me who published it and 
me who distributed it.

Please can you add something to the discussion, not try and take stuff away.

Richard B.

MARK wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Richard, how dare you claim these thoughts as your own, when they were
published in the Anti-Fascist leaflet "A Nation Under Threat"  freely
available in the Tower Hamlets area since the BNP's horrendous increase
in public awarenss.

I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU claim
them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.

M.A.R.K.

 -Original Message-
 From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: 02 February 1999 14:13
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

  -Caveat Lector-

 What i find most interesting with this current debate is the distinct
 lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL community. In
 particular
 regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know for sure we have a
 large
 number of UK members on this list including the outspoken M.A.R.K.
 (psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my comments (particularly
 Teo1000, flw, J2
 and Alamaine).

 With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout
 Europe
 and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to the
 presence
 of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September 1993,
 Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a
 council seat
 in
 East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he increased
 his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists as
 a
 bunch of
 skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than
 then
 on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs' does
 hold
 true for
 the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by
 small
 cliques of, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi
 revival
 is not just a
 mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter, 1996),
 but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway majority
 opinion (take note Teo1000).

 How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in a
 Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most
 importantly, by not
 appearing to be Nazi in origin (unlike M.A.R.Ks ridiculous suggestion
 last week!!). In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the American
 Nazi
 Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that:
 "The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the mire
 of
 the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he
 had
 not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British
 public
 were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must "hide
 behind
 the
 Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to go
 public with a mass Nazi movement" (John Tyndall quoted in Gable,
 1991).
 Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall direction
 of
 social norms) in Britain at the time and realised that declaring
 themselves
 to be
 openly Nazi, would do more harm to their cause than good. Around that
 time, members of the NF stopped using the obviously Nazi sun-wheel
 symbol,
 and adopted the Union Jack as their most prominent badge. Various Nazi
 organisations throughout Europe have begun in this manner, using
 patriotism
 to
 get a foot in the door whilst maintaining good relations with other
 secretly, or openly, Nazi groups at home or abroad.

 We can see evident in the behaviour of neo-fascist outfits at least
 three
 of the four behavioural styles proposed by Moscovici (1976). The first
 two are
 Consistancy and Rigidity. A minority that remains consistant in it's
 argument is more likely to influence a majority, than one that is
 inconsistant. The
 Neo-Fascists remain undaunted in their convictions that events such as
 the holocaust did not happen, their racist views and especially their
 anti-Semitism
 have lead Nazi Revisionists such as David Irving, for who the BNP
 supply
 'bodyguards', to publish articles and books in an attempt to rewrite a
 history
 that is against them. In BNP literature a study by none other than
 Hans
 Eysenck that appears to support the belief that whites are more
 intelligent
 than
 blacks, is constantly referred to without reference to criticisms of
 Eysencks methodology, or reference to counter-arguments or alternative
 interpretations
 of the data. Labov's (1970) study into 'Black English' is a good
 example
 of how scientists can interpret data incorrectly. Labov (1970) and
 Stewart
 (1970)
 both pointed out that many Afro-Americans speak a grammatically
 different
 form of English. Since IQ tests are administered in Standard English,
 the
 lower scores of Afro-Americans (which

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

1999-02-02 Thread MARK


 -Caveat Lector-

Wrong, wrong, wrong,  Again you are falsely claiming credit for which
you should not.  The leaflet "A Nation Under Threat" was in fact written
by my Good Friend, Alison Stalegrey, and I am sure she will have no
reason not to begin proceedings for you claiming her work as your own,
(As you did with Francis Dunnery's excellent paper "Anti-Statism - more
than a state of mind" back in 1993).

I do not wish to get into a personal battle on this list, however, if
you continue to claim the hard work of others as that of your own,
measures will have to be taken.

M.A.R.K.

 -Original Message-
 From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: 02 February 1999 16:30
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

  -Caveat Lector-

 M.A.R.K. again, in your desperation to make me look foolish, you trip
 and fall upon your own dagger.
 It was me  who wrote the 1992 leaflet 'A Nation Under Threat', me who
 published it and me who distributed it.

 Please can you add something to the discussion, not try and take stuff
 away.

 Richard B.

 MARK wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Richard, how dare you claim these thoughts as your own, when they
 were
 published in the Anti-Fascist leaflet "A Nation Under Threat"  freely
 available in the Tower Hamlets area since the BNP's horrendous
 increase
 in public awarenss.
 
 I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU
 claim
 them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.
 
 M.A.R.K.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: 02 February 1999 14:13
  To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
 
   -Caveat Lector-
 
  What i find most interesting with this current debate is the
 distinct
  lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL community. In
  particular
  regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know for sure we have a
  large
  number of UK members on this list including the outspoken M.A.R.K.
  (psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my comments (particularly
  Teo1000, flw, J2
  and Alamaine).
 
  With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout
  Europe
  and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to
 the
  presence
  of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September
 1993,
  Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a
  council seat
  in
  East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he
 increased
  his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists
 as
  a
  bunch of
  skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than
  then
  on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs'
 does
  hold
  true for
  the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by
  small
  cliques of, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi
  revival
  is not just a
  mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter,
 1996),
  but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway
 majority
  opinion (take note Teo1000).
 
  How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in
 a
  Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most
  importantly, by not
  appearing to be Nazi in origin (unlike M.A.R.Ks ridiculous
 suggestion
  last week!!). In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the
 American
  Nazi
  Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that:
  "The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the
 mire
  of
  the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he
  had
  not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British
  public
  were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must "hide
  behind
  the
  Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to
 go
  public with a mass Nazi movement" (John Tyndall quoted in Gable,
  1991).
  Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall
 direction
  of
  social norms) in Britain at the time and realised that declaring
  themselves
  to be
  openly Nazi, would do more harm to their cause than good. Around
 that
  time, members of the NF stopped using the obviously Nazi sun-wheel
  symbol,
  and adopted the Union Jack as their most prominent badge. Various
 Nazi
  organisations throughout Europe have begun in this manner, using
  patriotism
  to
  get a foot in the door whilst maintaining good relations with other
  secretly, or openly, Nazi groups at home or abroad.
 
  We can see evident in the behaviour of neo-fascist outfits at least
  three
  of the four behavioural styles proposed by Moscovici (1976). The
 first
  two are
  Consistancy and Rigidity. A minority that remains consistant in
 it's
  argument is more likely to influence a majority, than one that is
  inconsistant. The
  Neo-Fascists remain undaunted in their convictions that events such
 as

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order


 -Caveat Lector-

Pure fluff and twaddle.

MARK wrote:
This message contains more text than QuickMail can display.
The complete text has been enclosed as a file.

 -Caveat Lector-

Wrong, wrong, wrong,  Again you are falsely claiming credit for which
you should not.  The leaflet "A Nation Under Threat" was in fact written
by my Good Friend, Alison Stalegrey, and I am sure she will have no
reason not to begin proceedings for you claiming her work as your own,
(As you did with Francis Dunnery's excellent paper "Anti-Statism - more
than a state of mind" back in 1993).

I do not wish to get into a personal battle on this list, however, if
you continue to claim the hard work of others as that of your own,
measures will have to be taken.

M.A.R.K.

 -Original Message-
 From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: 02 February 1999 16:30
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

  -Caveat Lector-

 M.A.R.K. again, in your desperation to make me look foolish, you trip
 and fall upon your own dagger.
 It was me  who wrote the 1992 leaflet 'A Nation Under Threat', me who
 published it and me who distributed it.

 Please can you add something to the discussion, not try and take stuff
 away.

 Richard B.

 MARK wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Richard, how dare you claim these thoughts as your own, when they
 were
 published in the Anti-Fascist leaflet "A Nation Under Threat"  freely
 available in the Tower Hamlets area since the BNP's horrendous
 increase
 in public awarenss.
 
 I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU
 claim
 them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.
 
 M.A.R.K.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: 02 February 1999 14:13
  To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
 
   -Caveat Lector-
 
  What i find most interesting with this current debate is the
 distinct
  lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL community. In
  particular
  regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know for sure we have a
  large
  number of UK members on this list including the outspoken M.A.R.K.
  (psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my comments (particularly
  Teo1000, flw, J2
  and Alamaine).
 
  With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout
  Europe
  and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to
 the
  presence
  of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September
 1993,
  Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a
  council seat
  in
  East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he
 increased
  his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists
 as
  a
  bunch of
  skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than
  then
  on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs'
 does
  hold
  true for
  the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by
  small
  cliques of, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi
  revival
  is not just a
  mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter,
 1996),
  but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway
 majority
  opinion (take note Teo1000).
 
  How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in
 a
  Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most
  importantly, by not
  appearing to be Nazi in origin (unlike M.A.R.Ks ridiculous
 suggestion
  last week!!). In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the
 American
  Nazi
  Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that:
  "The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the
 mire
  of
  the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he
  had
  not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British
  public
  were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must "hide
  behind
  the
  Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to
 go
  public with a mass Nazi movement" (John Tyndall quoted in Gable,
  1991).
  Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall
 direction
  of
  social norms) in Britain at the time and realised that declaring
  themselves
  to be
  openly Nazi, would do more harm to their cause than good. Around
 that
  time, members of the NF stopped using the obviously Nazi sun-wheel
  symbol,
  and adopted the Union Jack as their most prominent badge. Various
 Nazi
  organisations throughout Europe have begun in this manner, using
  patriotism
  to
  get a foot in the door whilst maintaining good relations with other
  secretly, or openly, Nazi groups at home or abroad.
 
  We can see evident in the behaviour of neo-fascist outfits at least
  three
  of the four behavioural styles proposed by Moscovici (1976). The
 first
  two are
  Consistancy and Rigidity. A minority that remains consistant in
 it's

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

1999-02-02 Thread flw


 -Caveat Lector-


What i find most interesting with this current
debate is the distinct
lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL
community. In particular
regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know
for sure we have a large
number of UK members on this list including the
outspoken M.A.R.K.
(psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my
comments (particularly Teo1000, flw, J2
and Alamaine).

With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right
parties throughout Europe
and America, especially during the 1980's, we
have been alerted to the
presence
of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country.

I still believe many of you on the list have a
lot of catching up to do
regarding the current resurgance of the Neo-nazis
and Fascist ideals
amongst todays society, and hope that we can
build a strong, meaningful and
hopefully effective discussion on this most
essential of lists.  Come on CTRL,
pull your socks up!!!
Richard B.

Richard makes some good points as far as it goes.
My criticism is that his examples
of fascism are too one dimensional. He basically
relates to "bottom up" fascism. What
we are experiencing now in the good ole USA is
"top down" fascism.

A long term plan through a partnership between the
political class (politico-paths) and the Corporate
Elite to destroy individual freedom through
Corporate Statism.

Why? Simply for the economic benefit of the Elite
and the sheer joy of power exercised by the
political class.
flw

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] THE DARK SIDE OF THE GOOD NEWS

1999-02-02 Thread Carl Amedio


 -Caveat Lector-

CLINTON'S ASTOUNDING BUDGET

Advocates of limited government and restrained government
spending are reeling at the vastness of President Clinton's
proposed fiscal year 2000 budget.  With the single exception of
1944 during World War II, never in the history of the U.S. would
the federal government grab a greater share of the nation's gross
domestic product.

   o   Clinton's budget calls for Washington to seize 20.7
   percent of the nation's productive output.

   o   In 1944, the take was 20.9 percent -- and that fell the
   following year to 20.4 percent of gross domestic product
   (GDP).

   o   At the height of the Korean War in 1952, the federal share
   was 19 percent; and in both 1969, during the Vietnam War,
   and in the Cold War era of 1981, the stake was 19.7
   percent.

   o   Moreover, proposed changes in the tax laws would result in
   a five-year net tax increase of $45.8 billion.-- as some
   tax increases totaling $82 billion would be offset by a
   few tax breaks aimed at favored constituencies.

Critics deplore the tax-bracket creep that is the result of
prosperity.  As incomes rise, taxpayers are steadily pushed
upward into steeply progressive tax rates.

Meanwhile, federal spending increases.  Budget experts at the
Cato Institute have identified nearly $150 billion in new
spending during the next five years.  With inflation running
below 1 percent in 1998, the budget projects hefty increases of
more than 4 percent during both 2000 and 2001 for domestic
discretionary spending.

Sources: Editorial, "The Lewinsky Budget," Wall Street Journal;
and editorial, "Tax and Spend, Tax and Spend," Washington Times,
both February 2, 1999.

For more on the Budget for 2000
http://www.ncpa.org/pd/budget/budget.htm

THE DARK SIDE OF THE GOOD NEWS

The U.S. is awash in good news: crime is down, welfare rolls are
plunging, employment rates are high and births among teenagers
are declining.

But American Enterprise Institute analyst Charles Murray has been
taking a look at the state of America's underclasses.  He uses
three indicators to examine the condition of those at the bottom
of the socioeconomic ladder -- criminality, young male dropouts
from the labor force and out-of-wedlock births among young women.

Here is a brief description of what he found:

   o   Crime is down because so many of the chronically criminal
   are locked up -- as demonstrated by the fact that if we
   were to imprison people in 1997 at the same rate we did in
   1980, when crime hit an all-time high, there would have
   been about 1.3 million fewer inmates.

   o   Among 16- to 24-year-old black males who are not in
   school, the proportion who are not working or looking for
   work has risen from an average 17 percent during the 1980s
   to 20 percent in 1992, then to 23 percent in 1997.

   o   While headlines have trumpeted the fall in out-of-wedlock
   births per 1,000 unmarried women, the illegitimacy ratio
   -- that is, the percentage of babies who are born to
   unmarried women -- has been flat since 1994, at 32
   percent.

Murray suggests that there may be a downside to the shift of
single mothers from welfare to work.  No body of research exists
to demonstrate that it is good for children when a single mother
works, he points out.

"Can the U.S. retain its political and social culture," Murray
asks, "in the presence of a permanent underclass?"  His answer is
yes, if it is "sufficiently small."  If it is large, he believes,
the answer is no.

He points out that underclass ethics -- among all races -- are
deteriorating and contributing to a coarsening of American life.

Source: Charles Murray (American Enterprise Institute), "And Now
for the Bad News," Wall Street Journal, February 2, 1999.

For more on Out-of-Wedlock Births
http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/social5.html

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:

[CTRL] OEN 2/2/99


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/
A HREF="http://www.aci.net/kalliste/"The Home Page of J. Orlin Grabbe/A
-


The Politics of China

Bomb Blasts in China Linked to Rural Revolt

CHINA has been hit by a wave of mysterious bomb blasts killing 31 people
and injuring more than 100.
Police have been quick to blame the explosions on individual criminals
or would-be suicides. But although there is no sign that the blasts are
connected, human-rights activists have linked them to growing discontent
among China's laid-off workers, migrant labourers and hard-pressed
peasant farmers.

Violent protests are common in rural China as farmers demonstrate
against local abuses of power, including illegal taxes and levies,
confiscation of property and the issuing of IOUs instead of cash for
crops bought by the state.

Two of the blasts occurred in the southern Hunan province, scene of
several large demonstrations this year reported to have involving
thousands of angry farmers and hundreds of troops.

Last week a blast tore through a market yards from Hunan's Yizhang
county government offices, killing nine and wounding 65. Hospital
sources said nails had been found in the victims. On Jan 17, an
explosion injured 37 on a bus in Hunan's capital, Changsha. Police said
they were looking for a farmer seen running from the scene, but could
not say if the bombing had been deliberately timed.

Four days earlier an explosion in a litter bin near a bus stop in
Zhuhai, just across the border from the Portuguese enclave of Macao,
injured four. In the bloodiest incident, on Jan 6, a bomb killed 19
passengers on a bus in the north-eastern province of Liaoning. Police
said a man was planning to rob passengers after stunning them with the
explosion.

Last Friday police held a youth in Shenzen, on the border with Hong
Kong, after a tip that he was planning to blow up a bus. The local state
newspaper, the Special Zone Daily, said a bomb was found on him, and
safely detonated nearby. The man was trying to commit suicide, the paper
said.

Information about rural protests is tightly controlled by the Chinese
authorities. However, the Hong Kong-based Information Centre of Human
Rights and Democratic Movement in China, has claimed that the blasts are
linked to rising tension and social unrest.

The London Telegraph, Feb. 2, 1999


Impeached POTUS

Video Tapes Roll as Lewinsky Questioned for 6 Hours

"Nothing new": that is, the President is still guilty as hell

MONICA LEWINSKY was questioned for six hours on camera yesterday, the
first time President Clinton's former lover has been captured talking
about perjury and obstruction in the sex and cover-up scandal.
Impeachment lawyers subjected her to the interrogation in the
Presidential Suite of the Mayflower hotel in Washington.

The big question, which prosecutors and defence will contest fiercely in
the impeachment Senate trial, is whether the deposition should be
broadcast. This would give Americans the opportunity at last to judge Mr
Clinton from testimony taped by the woman who knows most about his guilt
or innocence.

Details of what the 25-year-old former White House trainee said are
secret but are likely to leak quickly. The video and transcripts will be
available for senators to view today. Miss Lewinsky testified 22 times
last year to a grand jury and transcripts were published by Kenneth
Starr, the independent counsel.

But no one except the jurors - certainly not the senators deciding the
President's future - has been able to look at her and judge her
truthfulness since the Oval Office sex scandal broke in January last
year.

The questioning was led by Congressman Ed Bryant, who struck up a
rapport with Miss Lewinsky at an informal meeting a week ago. He skirted
details of her sexual contact with the President and focused primarily
on who coached her - and how - before she filed a false affidavit in
Paula Jones's sexual harassment suit against Mr Clinton.

Prosecutors also want to bring out the extent and intensity of the
search for a job for Miss Lewinsky by Vernon Jordan, the President's
friend. They played down expectations, although they need something
dramatic if they are to reverse the strong tide toward acquittal.
Congressman Bill McCollum said: "I don't want anybody to think there's
some big bombshell."

Miss Lewinksy is expected to clear up contradictions in testimony,
particularly over calls made by Betty Currie, the President's secretary,
to arrange to collect gifts and hide them.

Mr Bryant's questioning took four hours. Then Cheryl Mills and Nicole
Seligman, of the White House defence team, used less than half their
allotted four hours encouraging Miss Lewinsky to expand on her earlier
statement: "No one ever told me to lie."

The London Telegraph, Feb. 2, 1999


Sydney Futures Exchange

SFE To Trade on Screen

Joint venture with Computershare  Agtex


The Sydney Futures Exchange has formed a joint venture with
Computershare, an information technology

[CTRL] The MadCow SavageHeartland Tour


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.madcowprod.com/SavageHeartland%20Tour3.htm
A HREF="http://www.madcowprod.com/SavageHeartland%20Tour3.htm"The MadCow
"SavageHeartland" Tour/A
-

The MadCow Savage Heartland Tour visits the very darkest Heart of
Darkness...Miami.



"Miami is where the bodies are buried," one source told us darkly early
in our investigation into the Life and Twisted Times of a man who has
been called the American James Bond, Adler Berriman "Barry"  Seal,
covert operative extraordinaire and the most successful drug smuggler in
American history.

So when the Savage Heartland Tour left Louisiana, we pointed our
brightly-painted day-glo tourbus for the place that has been called the
'Casablanca in the Caribbean,' a city that a decade ago served as the
unofficial capital of the (cocaine-fueled) go-go 80s.

We headed for Miami.

Miami... that place of sultry intrigue...that Berlin of the Western
Hemisphere.

Miami... the city cited most often cited when spooks turn in their
expense reports...

Miami... the home of JMWAVE, where the CIA's Theodore Shackley merged
the Agency with the Mafia to create the Covert Op That Ate the World...

Miami... where drug smugglers, both Cuban and Colombian, rubbed elbows
with movies stars like Cher and Sly and Madonna and Don Johnson...and
where you could find Richard Nixon and bagman Bebe Rebozo sunning
themselves like aging lizards on Biscayne Bay while George Bush flashed
by aboard Don Aronows cigarette boat.

(A curious sight, that-- the Vice President of the United States
 consorting with celebrity boat racer and drug smuggler Arononow, but
let that go-- just yet.



"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

In Miami we were to hear the most startling assertion yet, from a
soft-spoken Colombian, accountant who worked in Seal's organization in
the middle eighties.

(And since it is becoming increasingly obvious that cloaking our sources
with pseudonyms may be essential to their health,at least until our
book comes out-- we will call him Peter.)

"Peter" displays, during our lunch with him, the refined European
manners of the South American elite, and this is doubtless one of the
qualities that led Barry Seal to recruit him into his organization,
after meeting him through Medellin cartel honcho Carlos "Lito"
Bustamonte.

"Barry Seal wasn't just a drug smuggler-- he created the Medellin
Cartel," Peter stated. "He took warring groups, competing factions, and
he brought them together, melded them, showed them the benefits of
acting as one. The benefits of making a cartel. He brought together the
Ochoas and Ledher and Escobar, all of whom were at each others throats,
and got them to work together."

"On Whose Orders?"

Peter couldn't answer the burning question which hovered over our table
in a Cuban restaurant in Hallandale. But, startling as it was, we had
little trouble crediting his assertion. It fits in with the knowledge
that has been painfully accumulated already about the Medellin Cartel,
in, for example, the groundbreaking investigations of journalists
Alexander and Lesley Cockburn.

They were the first to report that the Medellin Cartel had made a $10
million "contribution" to the contras, at the behest of the notorious
Felix Rodriguez, CIA agent, "shooter team" alumnus and close friend of
George Bush.

Ramon Milian testified to this fact to Senator Kerry's Senate
subcommittee in the late 80's, to much the same reaction from the major
media as Gary Webb's Dark Alliance series received.

And General Miguel Maza, the chief of Colombia's intelligence agency,
the DAS, is on record as having stated that he believed that the CIA had
ties to the Medellin Cartel... ties which the Agency has clearly gone to
some lengths--including the assassination of Barry Seal--to conceal.

Tracking Barry Seal, the biggest drug smuggler in American history,
bringing in 5 billion dollars worth of cocaine (the govt.'s own estimate) to
fuel
the go-go 80's, leads to a a vein that leads right to the heart of the
heart of the country...

And while Gary Webb's ground-breaking work cannot be praised too highly,
the folks he tracked do NOT lead right to Bush, North, Casey,and the
fucks behind the Kennedy assassination.
Tracking Barry Seal does.





Order your copy of
 "The Secret Heartbeat of America."

-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and

Re: [CTRL] Fw: The Texas Atheist # 22

1999-02-02 Thread Stopforth, Jamie


 -Caveat Lector-

And this associated with Conspiracy Theories
because.?

Jamie

 [ Subscribe or Remove to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]===

   THE TEXAS ATHEIST

  January 31, 1999  # 22

   Copyright (c) 1999 by Howard Thompson

 ==[  Pass it on and help the community grow  ]=

 IN THIS ISSUE

 1. Texas Events
 2. News/Science Briefs
 O'Hairs, Ex-Cons and a Headless Body
 'Atheist Invasion' T-Shirts for Comfort Visit
 Darwin's Birthday  Houston Party
 Nurses Gotta Pray for Catholic Employer
 God Don't Know Much About Geometry
 Atheist Alliance Austin Convention Activities
 Correction: Atheists United Claims 'Biggest' Title
 Atheist Retirement Communities??
 ACA newsletter Recommended
 Freethinkers Quiz Senator on 'Religious Freedom' Bill
 Court Upholds Legalized Religious Discrimination
 IRS Auctions O'Hair Possessions - Not Diaries
 American Atheists Chat Exclusive and Secret
 California 'Freethought Church' Forming
 3. Groups  Television
 4. Letters
 "trashed the first few issues ... brought my atheism towards the
 forefront"
 "I am one of those 'get up in your face atheists.'"
 5. Commentary: Successful Arlington Conference
 -


 TEXAS EVENTS

 HOUSTON - DARWIN DAY CELEBRATION:  The Secular Humanists of Houston will
 have a 'Darwin Day Celebration' February 20th, 12:00 - 6:00 PM at the
 BORDER's Books  Music, 9633A Westheimer, Houston, TX 77063.  See article
 for more info.  Contact  Keith Irish [EMAIL PROTECTED].
 'ATHEIST INVASION' OF COMFORT, TEXAS:  Freethinker shopping expedition,
 visit to Freethinker Cenotaph  'True to the Union' Monument.  Date to be
 announced, see article for more details.  Contact Julie Fisher
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 AUSTIN - ATHEIST ALLIANCE 1999 NATIONAL CONVENTION:  April 2-4.
 Sponsored by the Atheist Community of Austin.  Contact: Don Rhoades
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or Mary Sue Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED].  [See
 longer description below.]
 SAN ANTONIO - FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION 1999 CONVENTION:  Contact:
 Catherine Fahringer  (210) 824-5061, FAX:  (210) 820-3239.
 -


 NEWS/SCIENCE BRIEFS [Send items of interest to [EMAIL PROTECTED]]

 O'HAIRS, EX-CONS AND A HEADLESS BODY

 The January 31st edition of the San Antonio News-Express has three
 articles
 by John MacCormack about the O'Hairs' disappearance.  The main article is
 at: http://www.expressnews.com/pantheon/news-bus/metro/101arp1.shtml
 Two or three ex-convicts were possibly acting with or against the O'Hairs
 during September 1995 in San Antonio.  The headless, handless body of
 wannabe con man Danny Fry has now been identified.  Fry's body was found
 in
 Dallas county October 2nd, 1995, three days after the Jon Murray-O'Hair's
 last known phone call.  This was also two days after Fry's last phone call
 from the Austin apartment of ex-con David Waters.  Convicted murderer
 Waters
 was the O'Hair's former office manager who pleaded guilty to stealing
 $54,000, and who purchased a Cadillac with $13,000 cash in San Antonio
 during September 1995.
 A third ex-con, from the same Illinois prison as Waters, was tentatively
 identified by the San Antonio buyer of Jon Murray's Mercedes as the person
 claiming to be Murray who sold him the car.
 Waters is apparently still living in his Austin apartment and denies
 knowledge of some events and any wrong-doing.  At this point, the story's
 details can depict the O'Hairs as victims or accomplices of - well,
 something.
 There has been no mention of what may have been more than $ 8 million
 squirreled away by Madalyn from atheist donations over the years, lest we
 forget the IRS criminal investigation into money laundering.  Clearly, the
 creativity of rumors and speculations will have to improve to compete with
 reality.

 'ATHEIST INVASION' T-SHIRTS FOR COMFORT VISIT

 [From Julie Fisher]  It won't be long until area atheists will be
 'invading'
 Comfort as foretold by local Episcopal prophet Roy Perkins.  Perkins led a
 petition drive against a 'Monument to Atheism' in Comfort, located about
 50
 miles west of San Antonio on IH 10.  Petitioners characterized the now
 canceled 'Freethought Celebration 1998' dedication of the Freethinker
 Cenotaph in the town's park as an 'atheist invasion'.
 D-Day for the 'invasion' to be announce later.  The 'invasion' will
 include
 antiquing, shopping, dining and a visit to the still bare Freethinker
 Cenotaph.  Come as part of the 'invasion force' wearing 'Atheist Invasion'
 T-shirts or as a Friend of Atheists (FOA) in plain clothes.  Contact Julie
 Fisher of the Hill Country Freethinkers [EMAIL PROTECTED] to order your
 'Atheist Invasion' T-shirt.

 DARWIN'S BIRTHDAY  HOUSTON 'PARTY'

 Charles Darwin was born on February 12, 1809.  The Secular Humanists of
 Houston will have a 'Darwin Day Celebration' February 20th, 12:00 - 6:00
 PM
 at the BORDER's Books

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] [MC] Wes Thomas CIA/NSA Flunky?]

1999-02-02 Thread Robert Tatman


 -Caveat Lector-

Daniel Holly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Wes is a prawn

 Dan

C'mon now, don't go insulting him just because he's short...

Bob

=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] The Enterprise in Enterprise


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.madcowprod.com/enterprise_in_enterprise.htm
A HREF="http://www.madcowprod.com/enterprise_in_enterprise.htm"The
Enterprise in Enterprise/A
-
Greetings from Enterprise, Alabama!



The MadCow Savage Heartland Tour 98 received a distressing letter from
the wife of a CIA drug pilot (on current duty) several weeks ago.

Beth Lyman is the estranged wife of a man whom she says, in testimony to
a federal grand jury, is a drug pilot at a CIA proprietary airline,
Tepper Aviation, run by a man who is a close friend of notorious CIA
killer-cum-drug- kingpin, Felix Rodriguez.

Lyman, after testifying to a federal grand jury in Montgomery Alabama,
about what she knew about CIA drug smuggling engaged in by local
businesspeople with CIA connections, came home to a 5-foot long
rattlesnake waiting for her in her mailbox.

Tiny Enterprise, Alabama, located near the Florida state line, has the
busiest airport in the world--4500 sorties per day.


CIA Drugs--A continuing national scandal


Oliver North's Enterprise (see accompanying story) was likely named
after the very real town of Enterprise, Alabama, a place notorious both
for having hosted Tom Posey's CMA contra training camp as well as a
hunting camp frequented by prominent members of the Medellin cartel,
including Carlos Ledher, whom Barry Seal flew in in the middle 80's,
according to law enforcement sources within the Alabama Bureau of
Investigations.

The idea that North's then-illegal contra efforts may have occupied the
same space at the same time with a Medellin Cartel hunting lodge is
yet-another piece of stunning evidence pointing towards a CIA/Medellin
alliance. (Other evidence includes the testimony of Colombia's top
general, quoted by Alexander Cockburn in his book Dangerous Alliances
saying that he always believed that the CIA had a special relationship
with the Medellin cartel.)

The letter from Beth rang a strong chord with us--especially after it
mentioned the activities of a current sitting Senator from Alabama, Jeff
Sessions, whose actions while a US Attorney in Mobile, revealed in
official court documents, protected the sanctioned traffic in narcotics
through that section of the country.

" In August of 1998," Beth told us, "I testified before a federal grand
jury concerning my knowledge of drug smuggling concerning a very wealthy
business owner for whom my husband works, John Collins, who is
associated with Tepper Aviation in Crestview, Fla. which is a CIA
proprietary company."


The Mafia, the CIA, and George Bush--Again?


"I have in my possession documents that prove from the mid 1980's the
involvement of certain individuals in the massive defrauding of banks
and SL's."

"A close friend of mine armed with this information was threatened by
the US Attorney's office in Mobile, Alabama. They accused him of
stealing classified documents. This is not true."

The US Attorney which she is talking about, the aforementioned Jeff
Sessions, has since moved up to become a United States Senator from
Alabama.

Almost a year ago a prominent attorney in Mobile,Alabama, Dom Soto, had
led us to court documents regarding former associates of Barry Seal.

In these documents, Barry's supposed "handler," Ernst Jacobsen,
repeatedly appears to perjure himself in testimony regarding a DEA
"informant," Ellis McKenzie, who had captained Seal's fleet of
ocean-going drug-smuggling ships.

And even a casual reading of these official court transcripts indicates
that Jeff Sessions aided and abetted this perjury.


Another Mena Connection


The CIA proprietary airline referenced by Lyman, Tepper Aviation in
Crestview, Fla., was also the employer of a Mena Arkansas-based C130
which went down in Angola while delivering weapons to both sides of that
civil war during the 1980's, killing the young nephew of a Congressman,
who then began to take an interest in the illegal activity taking place
there, to no ultimate avail.

("Forget national security," one source had explained to us, when we
inquired as to which side we were on in that conflict. "Its all about
money.")

Ms. Lyman's woes since blowing the whistle on this latest manifestation
of elite deviance include having her 15-year old daughter beaten in a
parking lot, as well as several home invasions.

"During the latest," she relates, " two men attempted to break into my
home around 4 a.m. triggering my burglar alarm to go off. One of these
men I have a protective order against as he is considered very
dangerous."

" I was then told at the police department that if I did not know the
social security numbers of these individuals an offense report could not
be completed."

The DrugMoney Times will continue to follow this developing story, in
the interests of bringing the events in Enterprise Alabama to national
attention, which, recent history teaches, is the only way of ensuring
the safety of yet another courageous

[CTRL] Where's Oswald?


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.madcowprod.com/Sealpic.htm
A HREF="http://www.madcowprod.com/Sealpic.htm"Where's Oswald?/A
-
(And where's Oswald?)

The last thought in my mind, when I began an investigation into Adler
Berriman Seal and CIA drug smuggling through Mena, Arkansas, was that it
would lead here...





This picture was taken in Mexico City on January 22, 1963...exactly ten
months before the Kennedy assassination--a fact made relevant by what we
have learned in the course of our investigation, that Barry Seal flew a
getaway plane out of Dallas. (see New News.)

It shows Barry Seal (third from left) seated at a  nightclub table of
Cuban exiles.

What does it mean? Who are these guys? And, most importantly, what are
they doing together in Mexico City?

An expert on the Miami Cuban exile community sent me the following note,
identifying one of the Cubans a s a man named "Peruyero:"

Peruyero was a brigade member and murdered for drugs according to
police. The new photo isn't better it just confirms that the guy in
front on the right may be Peruyero or (name escapes me) Nieves...Luciano
or something like that NievesHe was murdered in the 1970s because he
was pro-Castro.
Can anyone assist in identifying any of the men in this picture? Please
respond, in confidence, . . .
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 10:14:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 The Neo-Nazi revival
 is not just a
 mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter, 1996),
 but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway majority
 opinion (take note Teo1000).
  

I fail to see what you are asking me to take note of.  This is nothing
different from what I believe of the movement.  Fascism has been alive and
well for a long time.  After W.W.II it had to go underground for a time but
retained much of it's power covertly.  Now fascists take on different labels
and are using all of the resources that are available to any political party
or other powerful group in order to sway opinion cause societal change and
gain power.  I can't really speak of Britain, but it is apparent that we have
a strong fascist (Nazi) underground movement in the USA.  What we see of
"skinheads" and tattooed yahoos beating up gay men and marching in parades
with the ridiculous KKK and other groups is only a small portion of the
movement and it is put in the public limelight for a specific reason,
ridicule.  This way the more "reasonable" elements of the movement, three-
piece-business-suit-wearing men with degrees, and "well thought out" plans for
solving the "racial war/problem", and ideas to help us deal with the
"criminal" element, and save us from the rising tide of immigration which is
damaging to out "nationhood", are seen in a positive light and not associated
with the fascism that is decried in popular media.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

1999-02-02 Thread Brown, Jeremy


 -Caveat Lector-

You know, this whole thing takes me back to the time when I wrote "A Tale of
Two Cities". It took quite a while to finish it, though, as I was busy with
the Polio vaccine at the same time, as well as having just returned from
walking on the moon.  Of course, none of this compares to the work I had to
do on "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". That George Martin is a real
douchebag.  Well, I'd love to keep talking about this, but I have to go and
accept my Oscar for directing "Saving Private Ryan" and my emmy for my
writing on "Frasier".

Richard

 -Original Message-
 From: MARK [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:49 AM
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

  -Caveat Lector-

 Wrong, wrong, wrong,  Again you are falsely claiming credit for which
 you should not.  The leaflet "A Nation Under Threat" was in fact written
 by my Good Friend, Alison Stalegrey, and I am sure she will have no
 reason not to begin proceedings for you claiming her work as your own,
 (As you did with Francis Dunnery's excellent paper "Anti-Statism - more
 than a state of mind" back in 1993).

 I do not wish to get into a personal battle on this list, however, if
 you continue to claim the hard work of others as that of your own,
 measures will have to be taken.

 M.A.R.K.

  -Original Message-
  From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: 02 February 1999 16:30
  To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
 
   -Caveat Lector-
 
  M.A.R.K. again, in your desperation to make me look foolish, you trip
  and fall upon your own dagger.
  It was me  who wrote the 1992 leaflet 'A Nation Under Threat', me who
  published it and me who distributed it.
 
  Please can you add something to the discussion, not try and take stuff
  away.
 
  Richard B.
 
  MARK wrote:
   -Caveat Lector-
  
  Richard, how dare you claim these thoughts as your own, when they
  were
  published in the Anti-Fascist leaflet "A Nation Under Threat"  freely
  available in the Tower Hamlets area since the BNP's horrendous
  increase
  in public awarenss.
  
  I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU
  claim
  them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.
  
  M.A.R.K.
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: 02 February 1999 14:13
   To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order
  
-Caveat Lector-
  
   What i find most interesting with this current debate is the
  distinct
   lack of knowledge being displayed across the CTRL community. In
   particular
   regarding the rise of fascism in Britain (i know for sure we have a
   large
   number of UK members on this list including the outspoken M.A.R.K.
   (psuedonym)). I beg of you all to read my comments (particularly
   Teo1000, flw, J2
   and Alamaine).
  
   With the re-emergence of Fascist and far-right parties throughout
   Europe
   and America, especially during the 1980's, we have been alerted to
  the
   presence
   of Racist and Fascist beliefs in our own country. In September
  1993,
   Derek Beackon of the Nazi British National Party was elected to a
   council seat
   in
   East London. Despite being defeated at the next election, he
  increased
   his vote by a third. It would be a mistake to think of Neo-Fascists
  as
   a
   bunch of
   skinhead thugs picking on ethnic groups that they see as lower than
   then
   on the social ladder. The traditional stereotype of Nazi 'thugs'
  does
   hold
   true for
   the majority, but their actions are often organised and directed by
   small
   cliques of, intelligent and systematic individuals. The Neo-Nazi
   revival
   is not just a
   mish-mash of 'fascist filth' and 'racist scum' (ANL newsletter,
  1996),
   but a highly organised and well orchestrated attempt to sway
  majority
   opinion (take note Teo1000).
  
   How do Neo-Fascist organisations attempt to win over the public in
  a
   Britain that is greatly opposed to them? Firstly, and most
   importantly, by not
   appearing to be Nazi in origin (unlike M.A.R.Ks ridiculous
  suggestion
   last week!!). In 1967, in a letter to William Pierce of the
  American
   Nazi
   Party, John Tyndall, then leader of the National Front said that:
   "The NF could not be openly Nazi because it would be stuck in the
  mire
   of
   the Second World War and the death camps". He went on to say how he
   had
   not abandoned his faith in Hitler or the Swastika, but the British
   public
   were not prepared to accept open Nazism yet; so the NF must "hide
   behind
   the
   Union Jack and phoney patriotic jargon until the time was ripe to
  go
   public with a mass Nazi movement" (John Tyndall quoted in Gable,
   1991).
   Obviously, Tyndall was aware of the Zietgeist (The overall
  direction
   of
   social norms) in

[CTRL] Enterprise, Alabama - a 1st person account of life under cartel occupation


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.madcowprod.com/genesis.htm
A HREF="http://www.madcowprod.com/genesis.htm"Enterprise, Alabama/A
-
a 1st person account of life under cartel occupation
by John Burt Caylor



The nightmare for America began back in the 60s during the Vietnam
War... in my hometown: Enterprise, Alabama, located 6 miles west of Fort
Rucker, the U.S. Armys Aviation Center, with merchants of death here in
Enterprise laughing all the way to the bank with blood money taken from
the poor soldier boys of America.

Starting in the forties with World War II, the U.S. Army established
Fort Rucker as the training spot and headquarters for army aviation.
During the early 60s along came Vietnam and a massive buildup of
hundreds of remote airstrips, facilities and influx of thousands of
soldiers and pilots.
The area was a natural for the military. The climate is like Vietnam,
hot and humid, the terrain is full of pine forests with rough hills and
valleys. The inhabitants were firebrand rednecks, full of hate for
commies, Jews and Niggers, blood thirsty for dollars of death and
destruction that war brings.

The Dixie Mafia Arrives


First came the military retirees who overtook Enterprise--with its cheap
land and low cost of living-- soon dominating all aspects of business
and government. The area also suffered an influx of mobsters fleeing
Phoenix City, Alabama in the wake of "crime fighter" district Attorney
John Patterson Sr.s, assassination.

My father was the number one lawman and Chief of Police who welcomed all
those folks with open arms. Everyone addressed him as "Chief"; he was a
dead ringer for actor Carroll OConner, in the TV series "Heat of the
Night."


The Golden Triangle Boys Arrive


I believe that my fathers power came from his new found associates, men
who were retired Army Colonels and Defense Intelligence Agency,  guys
who made their fortunes smuggling opium in the Golden Triangle of
Southeast Asia.

Their dope smuggling skills were fine-tuned under the protective cover
of the  4500 fixed-wing aircraft take-offs and landings each day at Army
airfields extending over 150 miles in all directions, in South Alabama,
Northwest Florida and Southwest Georgia.

(Geographically, the area is not quite a gas tank away from Columbia and
other hot spots of Central and South America. )


Cliff Wentworth


In 1966 along came Army Captain Clifford Wentworth from Miami, Cliff was
a tall handsome All-American type guy, smart as hell with his new law
degree. Everyone liked Cliff. Daddy who by now had become a successful
real estate developer operating his own construction company, built
Cliff and his wife a new home on Dixie Drive in Enterprise.

Cliff soon left for his tour of duty in Vietnam, and after a year or so
he was back home with his wife Brenda. Upon leaving the Army, daddy
encouraged Cliff to stay, and he joined a local law firm with retired
Col. Charlie Reese, my fathers personal lawyer and good buddy.


The Miami Connection


Shortly thereafter, Cliff left to set up an additional law practice in
South Florida, later calling for my dad to send me down to Miami, saying
 he would put me to work and take care of me.

When I arrived Cliff looked at me and said: heres the deal. I know you
are a good photographer and I need one because I do lots of divorce
cases and insurance claims. Every now and then I want you to go out a
secretly photograph guys screwing around on their wives, because I
represent the wives in court.

A few weeks later, Im making friends with Cubans who used to be
somebody in Havana until Fidel came along. One of the guys who was a
big-time lawyer in Havana tried to get me to join the Cuban
Revolutionary Army, playing weekend soldier over in the Glades,
 compliments of our CIA.


The Colombians Show


One Tuesday night I arrived, with my cousin Neal, at an apartment. Neal
knocks at the door and says "Hay Manny, Its me Man, Neal". The door
opens and there sits this ugly little Colombian guy with a sawed off
shotgun pointed right in my face. Im about to freak out, Neal tells him
its okay, Im his cousin Johnny from Enterprise. Inside the 2-bedroom
apartment, the living room is empty except for a rocking chair, stereo,
fish tank, small couch and a table with a cash box on it and the
shotgun.

Neal says, "John dont worry about me, man, I'm doing fine at work,
making lots of money, and he then takes me to bedroom one, cracks the
door open and there from the floor to the ceiling were bricks of
Colombian Gold. There wasnt a foot or more of space left in the whole
damn bedroom. Crap, the other one was filled the same from the floor to
the ceiling. I couldnt even take a piss in the bathroom because it was
filled up too.

Shocked and being a candy ass at the time, I couldnt understand how any
one could bring this much dope down the sidewalk without getting caught.

Neal says, "Cops man, the cops."

[CTRL] State Govt Photos-Capture Your Soul?

1999-02-02 Thread flw


 -Caveat Lector-

Maybe the Aborigine's belief that a photo is
dangerous because it can capture
the soul is more true then not.
flw

NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY

Should state governments be allowed
to sell your drivers license photo?

WASHINGTON, DC -- The decision by three
states to sell millions
of drivers license photographs to a private
company is a "picture
perfect" example of why you can't trust
politicians to protect your
privacy, the Libertarian Party said today.

"Without your permission, politicians in
three states have
decided to sell your most personal possession --
your image," said
Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "If
we don't stop them
now, what will they sell next?"

In what is being described as the latest
"Big Brother" privacy
scandal, politicians in three states -- Florida,
South Carolina, and
Colorado -- have agreed to sell a combined total
of 22.5 million
drivers license photographs to Image Data LLD, a
private anti-fraud
company in New Hampshire.

Image Data LLD said it will use the
photos to build a
nationwide photographic database, which retail
establishments can use
to confirm the identity of customers who cash
checks or use credit
cards.

But whether such a database will actually
prevent fraud, the
Libertarian Party said politicians have no right
to sell people's
images, especially without their permission.

"Your photographic image represents the
essence of who you are,
and politicians should not be able to sell it to
the highest bidder,"
said Dasbach. "It is a classic case of identity
theft -- and the
ultimate violation of your personal privacy."

Americans seem to agree: Already,
residents of South Carolina
and Florida are flooding state offices with
complaints about the
program. Politicians in South Carolina said they
will attempt to
retrieve the photographs, and legislation may be
filed in Florida to
curb the practice.

In addition, at least two states, New
Hampshire and Louisiana,
have refused to sell drivers license photos.
Other states -- including
Maryland and Virginia -- have laws which restrict
access to such
photographs.

But even if a few states stop the sale of
drivers license
photos, that leaves dozens of other states that
may decide to sell them
later, Dasbach noted.

And photographs are just a small part of
the flood of personal
data -- ranging from mandated fingerprints on
drivers licenses, to
omnipresent Social Security numbers, to roving
wiretaps, to the new
"Know Your Customer" bank spying law, to cameras
mounted on traffic
lights, to the "Deadbeat Dad" federal employment
database -- the
government collects about its citizens, he said.

"Your privacy is under assault from a
hundred laws and
government agencies," Dasbach said. "Big Brother
is already watching
you -- only now, he's got a camera in his hands
and plans to sell your
photograph."

The controversy over the sale of the
drivers license photos
also illustrates an important difference between
the government and
private companies when it comes to privacy, said
Dasbach.

"With the government, you usually can't
say no," he noted. "For
example, you have no choice about surrendering
your photographic image
if you want a drivers license. And once the
government has acquired
that image, you have limited ability to stop
politicians and
bureaucrats from doing whatever they wish with
it.

"By contrast, you have a great deal of
control over private
companies. A new consumer privacy survey by Louis
Harris/Alan Westin
revealed that almost 80% of Americans have
refused to give a company or
business information they thought was too
personal or unnecessary. And
if a private company invades your privacy, you
can refuse to do
business with them -- an option you don't have
with the government."

Whatever the outcome of the drivers
license photo debate,
Dasbach said he hopes the controversy will send a
message to Democratic
and Republican politicians that Americans simply
won't stand for such
violations of their privacy.

"Americans are tired of being
photographed, numbered, filed,
monitored, recorded, and cross-referenced by the
government," he said.
"We're tired of having our personal information
abused by politicians.
We want our privacy back."

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat

Re: [CTRL] [mindcontrol] Re: Wes Thomas and the Need for Genetic ...


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 12:03:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 In a message dated 99-02-02 11:24:21 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Kris Millegan wrote:
 
 Frank,
   
Please do not keep us informed of your personal affrontations. They are
  off-
topic and do not belong on this list. so keep it up or you can go whine
  about
ME on some other lists.
   
   Don't worry boss. I'll tow the line...for America online. You are about 50
   posts behind the personal factor here which was resolved long ago. Now I
   have to wonder if this list is a "prawn" in the AOL game, in other words a
   little conpiracy against free internet expression in its own right.

 If there are valid reasons to question the motives of list
 owners/moderators, seems to me nothing could be MORE relevant to a conspiracy
 discussion list.  We're not here to spare egos or feelings -- we're here to
 try to sort the wheat from the chaff and get to the truth about vital
matters.

 We question the motives of government agencies and well-accepted dogmas.
 We should be aware that infiltration of conspiracy discussion groups is not
 only possible, but likely.  Motives ARE relevant.  Please free this list up
to
 discuss such matters.
 Samantha
  

I might agree with this, at least in part, but it would depend upon what it is
you wanted to discuss.  Let us say for the sake of argument that I am a shill
for the government and that my being an editor of CTRL enables me to stifle
unwanted discussion.  Do you propose to just come on list and fling personal
invective against me?  If that is what you want to discuss then go somewhere
else.  Even if I were an agent and controlling content this is still not the
place to be engaging in personal attacks.  Post arguments based on what I have
said to illustrate your contention and allow me an opportunity to respond to
your claims, without the personal crap.  This is all said just hypothetically
of course, because I'm not an agent of anybody (Of course some of you MAY
believe otherwise.).  One more thing that is important.  There are certain
guidelines that this list has, PERIOD.  If the discussion of control of the
list and it's possible conspiratorial angles leads into more nazi propaganda
and Holocaust denial then it too has no place being discussed here.  Lastly my
comments must fall by the wayside in light of whatever ruling Kris makes on a
matter of discussion.  I am just and editor, he OWNS the list.  They are his
rules (which I mostly agree with anyway) and they are rules that must be
obeyed, period.  As to what can be discussed I leave it up to him and will
abide by his decisions, hell he has even castigated me for getting to personal
in my responses to others on this list so I am not immune to being whacked
when appropriate.  I don't blindly accept his pronouncements either, we differ
on some issues, but in the end it is his list and he can do with it as he
pleases, and if I or anybody else doesn't like it we can all unsubscribe and
go elsewhere.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] List Participation


 -Caveat Lector-

I am for seeing more substantive discussion.  I would like to see more people
getting involved here and posting their comments on things conspiratorial.
There are certain few who seem to dominate the list with certain pet areas of
concern (this is not bad because we get a lot of good information, and I am
guilty of this as well), and that tends to make people uncomfortable talking
about other issues.  In addition I make pretty dogmatic pronouncements myself
which tend to cause others to think twice before posting comments that I am
likely to take an opposite stance on (such as the UFO phenomenon, alien
abduction, mind control theories, and religious conspiracy).  Some people fear
that their comments will be relegated to the trash heap or that they will be
attacked, personally, and shy away from posting.  I wish they wouldn't.  Some
of the list rules regarding the avoidance of personal attacks are in place for
that very reason.  I hope that more people will contribute to the list and we
can get a broader view of what is going on in the wide world we live in.  More
information, from more people gives us better insight into what is going on
behind the scenes and lets us see more clearly the conspiracy that we are all
tracking down.  SO, come on people post a word or two, get you feet wet and
give it a try!
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] Please no more backbiting


 -Caveat Lector-

The comments expressed below are indicative of a discussion that is about to
turn personal and nasty, so please, let us all be civil and avoid personal
attacks.
Teo1000




Richard, how dare you claim these thoughts as your own, when they were
published in the Anti-Fascist leaflet "A Nation Under Threat"  freely
available in the Tower Hamlets area since the BNP's horrendous increase
in public awarenss.

I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU claim
them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.

M.A.R.K.


M.A.R.K. again, in your desperation to make me look foolish, you trip and fall
upon your own dagger.
It was me  who wrote the 1992 leaflet 'A Nation Under Threat', me who
published it and me who distributed it.

Please can you add something to the discussion, not try and take stuff away.

Richard B.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] [MC] Wes Thomas CIA/NSA Flunky?]


 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Robert Tatman wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Daniel Holly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Wes is a prawn
 
  Dan

 C'mon now, don't go insulting him just because he's short...

 Bob

Careful what you say now. This is an America Online List. You mean
VERTICALLY CHALLENGED.
FWP.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Please no more backbiting


 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Teo One Thousand wrote:

 I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU claim
 them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.

I think you meant to say that he is a PRAWN.
FWP.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Please no more backbiting


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 3:06:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Teo One Thousand wrote:

  I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU claim
  them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.

 I think you meant to say that he is a PRAWN.
 FWP. 

Pardon, but I DID NOT say this quote above, I was quoting another person
M.A.R.K. I believe.  Please don't attribute things to me that I did not say,
and avoid personal rhetoric.
Thanks
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Please no more backbiting


 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Teo One Thousand wrote:

 In a message dated 2/2/99 3:06:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 writes:

  On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Teo One Thousand wrote:

   I agree unequivocally with these thoughts, however, how DARE YOU claim
   them as your own.  You are a Charlatan and a Fraud.

  I think you meant to say that he is a PRAWN.
  FWP. 

 Pardon, but I DID NOT say this quote above, I was quoting another person
 M.A.R.K. I believe.  Please don't attribute things to me that I did not say,
 and avoid personal rhetoric.

I retract. So far I am not convinced that you are either a prawn or
vertically challenged.
FWP.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] Foster, NSA and Banks (Part 17)


 -Caveat Lector-

   Allegations Regarding Vince Foster, the NSA, and
Banking Transactions Spying, Part XVII

  by J. Orlin Grabbe

Is it now time to go Whitewater rafting in the river of American
Injustice?  In the Texas-Mexico border region there is something they
call *la mordita* ("the bite").  The game theorists at the Rand Corporation
might refer to a "side payment".  Vulgar street parlance speaks of  "graft"
or "payola".  Whatever it's called, it often accumulates in hidden bank
accounts.

Was such an account in existence at Mellon Bank on July 16, 1993?
Or was the account in question entirely legitimate?

Let us consider an innocent attorney named Sheila F. Anthony.

Sheila F. Anthony, Assistant Attorney General, Office of
Legislative Affairs, U.S. Department of Justice.  Besides serving as
liaison with Congress, her duties include clearance of bills before they
are forwarded to the Office and Management and Budget.  She also has
a role in selecting nominees for positions as U.S. Attorneys, U.S.
Marshalls, and Federal Judges.

Sheila F. Anthony, the wife of Beryl Anthony.  Beryl Anthony
is a former Arkansas congressman, former treasurer of the Democratic
National Committee, and a lawyer in the Washington D.C. office of the
Chicago-based law firm of Winston and Strawn, whose chairman is former
Governor of Illinois Jim Thompson.

Sheila Foster Anthony, sister of Vince Foster, the dead Deputy
White House Counselor.

Sheila F. Anthony, *who is said to have effected a wire transfer
of approximately $286,000 from a branch of Mellon Bank on July 16, 1993,
to her sister-in-law, Lisa Foster, the wife of Vince Foster, four days prior
to Vince Foster's death*.

Large financial transactions, taking place between relations of
a person whose death is not entirely satisfactorily explained, usually
generate further inquiries--no manner how possibly innocent the explanation.

Particularly if the money is authorized by a top official of the
Justice Department and paid to the wife of a top official of the White
House--and the White House official disappears a few days later for a
number of hours, before being found dead under mysterious circumstances.

This wire transfer is not mentioned in the two volumes of the 1994
Senate report on the death of Vince Foster, nor is a likely explanation
suggested by a perusal of their contents.  Lisa Foster *did* tell the FBI
she arrived to set up a permanent residence for her family on June 5, 1993.
But if the money was payment on a house, why was this not discussed in the
context of Vince Foster's "depression"?  For Lisa also said Vince had, in
the previous week, talked of resigning his White House job--hardly auspicious
circumstances under which to make further financial committments in the
D.C. area.

Moreover, what was the source of the funds?  Did they represent the
private savings of Sheila F. Anthony or her husband Beryl?

Or did they come from a hidden account set up by Vince Foster
himself, but now being transferred to his wife for safe-keeping, because
Foster's Swiss account had been recently cleaned out?

Or was there something even more sinister involved in this transfer
of money?

Let's put this alleged $286,000 wire transfer into chronological
perspective:

July 1, 1993, Thursday

Foster purchases a plane ticket from Washington D.C. to Geneva on
TWA and Swiss Air.

July 2, Friday

Vince Foster has a dinner at his house, and surprises Sheila
Anthony by the secret arrangements he had made to have Sheila's daughter
fly up from Texas to attend the dinner which was in honor of Sheila's
confirmation as Assistant Attorney General.

Around the same date, Vince and Lisa Foster have dinner with
Sheila and Beryl Anthony at the Cactus Cantina restaurant.

July 8, Thursday

Swiss Air refunds the purchase price of Foster's ticket. Foster
had canceled the trip to Geneva "when he inquired about his numbered bank
account at Banca Della Svizzera Italiana in Chiasso, Switz.--and found the
account empty. Foster was shocked to learn from the bank that someone using
his secret authorization code had withdrawn all $2.73 million he had stashed
there and had moved it to, of all places, the U.S. Treasury" (Jim Norman,
"Fostergate", *Media Bypass Magazine*, August 1995).

July 11, Sunday

Vince Foster tells his wife Lisa he had written the opening argument
for his defense against a feared congressional probe into his affairs.
According to the Fiske report, Lisa believed this was the torn note found in
Foster's briefcase by Stephen Neuwirth on July 26, six day's after Foster's
death.

July 12, Monday

Webster Hubbell receives Inslaw's rebuttal to the Bua Report. The

[CTRL] SIVx


 -Caveat Lector-

From Agence France Presse (via Yahoo!)

"" "Chimpanzees are identical to humans in over 98 percent of their
hereditary material, yet they appear to be resistant to the damaging
effects of the AIDS virus on the immune system," said George Shaw, a
co-author of the UAB paper also published in the British journal Nature. ""

French-led team warns new AIDS virus may enter human population

CHICAGO, Feb 1 (AFP) - A French-led research team provided fresh evidence
here Monday that the AIDS virus was transmitted to humans from African
monkeys and warned that a new strain will enter the human population or may
have already done so.

Appearing at an AIDS conference here, Francois Simon, of the International
Medical Research Center of Franceville (IMRCF) in Gabon, outlined research
on four new simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) strains identified in three
monkey species in that central African country.

The research backed up a just-released study by Alabama scientists
suggesting that HIV-1, the human immunodeficiency virus strain that causes
most of the AIDS cases around the world, came to humans from a west African
subspecies of the common chimpanzee.

Simon said HIV-1 and a less common strain known as HIV-2 had unique genome
structures and were more closely related to the SIVcpz found in chimpanzees
and the SIVsm virus found in sooty mangabeys respectively than to each
other.

The two viruses entered the human population as a result of cross-species
transmission of the SIVcpz in central Africa and SIVsm in west Africa,
according to IMRCF researchers here.

This most likely occurred "by direct contact with infected blood during
hunting and butchering of wild animals, preparation of meat for cooking or
scratches/bites by pet monkeys or apes," they noted.

Increased logging in west-central Africa has increased access to remote
forest areas and spurred the commercial killings of thousands of
chimpanzees, gorillas and monkeys, they added.

"Such contact may increase the likelihood that an HIV-3 will enter the
human population or has already done so," said Simon, who pointed out that
cross-species transmission had occurred on multiple occasions in the
evolution of primate viruses.

Simon said the four new SIV strains identified in Gabon were found on two
red-capped mangabeys, one mandrill and one drill. The four monkeys had been
caught in the wild as juveniles and are housed in the Limbe zoo of west
Cameroon.

He noted that the natural habitat of the sooty mangabey is west Africa,
where the majority of HIV-2 infections have been found.

Speaking at the AIDS conference's opening session Sunday, Beatrice Hahn of
the University of Alabama at Birmingham detailed research naming a
chimpanzee subspecies (Pan troglodytes trogolodytes) of west-central Africa
as the primary source of HIV-1.

"It took us 20 years to find where HIV-1 came from, only to realize that
the very animal species that harbors it is at the brink of extinction," she
noted. "We cannot afford to lose these animals, either from an animal
conservation or a medical investigative standpoint."

"Chimpanzees are identical to humans in over 98 percent of their hereditary
material, yet they appear to be resistant to the damaging effects of the
AIDS virus on the immune system," said George Shaw, a co-author of the UAB
paper also published in the British journal Nature.

"By studying the biological reasons for this difference, we may be able to
obtain important clues concerning the pathogenic basis of HIV-1 in humans
and possibly new strategies for treating the disease more effectively," he
added.

The earliest trace of the AIDS virus dates back to 1959, when it was found
in a blood sample from an infected person in western Central Africa.



AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Re: [CTRL] [mindcontrol] Re: Wes Thomas and the Need for Genetic ...


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-02-02 14:53:02 EST, you write:

 I might agree with this, at least in part, but it would depend upon what it
 is you wanted to discuss.  Let us say for the sake of argument that I am a
 shill for the government and that my being an editor of CTRL enables me to
stifle
  unwanted discussion.  Do you propose to just come on list and fling
personal
  invective against me?  If that is what you want to discuss then go
somewhere
  else.  Even if I were an agent and controlling content this is still not
the
  place to be engaging in personal attacks.  Post arguments based on what I
 have
  said to illustrate your contention and allow me an opportunity to respond
to
  your claims, without the personal crap.  This is all said just
 hypothetically
  of course, because I'm not an agent of anybody (Of course some of you MAY
  believe otherwise.).  One more thing that is important.  There are certain
  guidelines that this list has, PERIOD.  If the discussion of control of the
  list and it's possible conspiratorial angles leads into more nazi
propaganda
  and Holocaust denial then it too has no place being discussed here.  Lastly
 my
  comments must fall by the wayside in light of whatever ruling Kris makes on
 a
  matter of discussion.  I am just and editor, he OWNS the list.  They are
his
  rules (which I mostly agree with anyway) and they are rules that must be
  obeyed, period.  As to what can be discussed I leave it up to him and will
  abide by his decisions, hell he has even castigated me for getting to
 personal
  in my responses to others on this list so I am not immune to being whacked
  when appropriate.  I don't blindly accept his pronouncements either, we
 differ
  on some issues, but in the end it is his list and he can do with it as he
  pleases, and if I or anybody else doesn't like it we can all unsubscribe
and
  go elsewhere.
  Teo1000

Posting arguments based on what a person says or doesn't *allow* to be
said is all *I* am interested in.  I said nothing about personal invective and
I agree it doesn't belong on the list.  Sheesh.
To restate:  it seems fair and germiane to discuss the possibility that
list owners or moderators might have an agenda as per their list control
behavior.  The only reference made to CTRL list owner was to "please" allow
such discussions to take place.
Samantha  ~~~wondering what will be read between THESE lines

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Fwd: business update -Humour]

1999-02-02 Thread Robert Tatman


 -Caveat Lector-

Kris Millegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

much silliness snipped, saved, and forwarded

ROTFLMAOAPMP!

Thanks...a much-needed comic interlude!

;^D

Bob

=
Robert F. Tatman
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Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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[CTRL] ``The Nuremberg Files''


 -Caveat Lector-

Again, in the concept of "Free Speech" resides, implicitly,
"responsibility".  The interesting thing about the title of the subject web
site is that it identifies one group of people for whom a bounty has been
posted.  As the article states, "" They maintained that they were merely
collecting data on doctors in hopes that abortion providers, like Nazi war
criminals, could one day be tried for ``crimes against humanity.'' "", the
argument could be made on the other side as well -- the subjects of the
Nurmeberg trials were accused of having it in for a select group of people.
 Nevertheless, it points to the existence of one group conspiring to
eliminate another.  Aside from the current legality of the issue, the
concept of "crimes against humanity" dictated by the web site and its
supporters points to a kind of vigilante-ism that, if allowed, could be
applied to almost ANY group, with the perpetrators   "... crossing through
the names of {{fill in the blank}} who were killed."



From Wash DC Post

Anti-Abortion Web Site Loses Case

Tuesday, February 2, 1999; 3:18 p.m. EST

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) -- A federal jury ruled Tuesday that a Web site and
``wanted'' posters listing abortion doctors' names and addresses amounted
to threats.

Damages in the tens of millions were assessed against various defendants.
The verdict could redefine what is considered constitutionally protected
political speech because the anti-abortion materials contained no explicit
threats of violence, only veiled messages, such as crossing through the
names of abortion providers who were killed.

At issue was the ``The Nuremberg Files'' Web site, which lists hundreds of
``baby butchers'' and invites readers to send in such personal details as
their home addresses, license plate numbers and even the names of their
children. The similar Wild West-style posters offered a $5,000 reward for
information about the ``Deadly Dozen'' doctors branded ``Guilty of Crimes
Against Humanity.''

Three times, doctors whose names appeared on the list were killed, most
recently last October when Dr. Barnett Slepian was gunned down by sniper
fire in his home outside Buffalo, N.Y. His name on the Web site was
promptly crossed through.

Throughout the three-week trial, abortion doctors on the list testified
that they lived in constant fear, used disguises, bodyguards and
bulletproof vests, and instructed their children to crouch in the bathroom
if they heard gunfire.

``This is terrorism,'' plaintiffs' attorney Maria Vullo said in closing
arguments, pointing to a timeline of the four doctors and two clinic
workers killed since 1993. ``The message is, `Stop performing abortion or
wear a bulletproof vest.'''

Attorneys for more than a dozen defendants, including the anti-abortion
umbrella group American Coalition of Life Advocates, contended their
clients were peaceful protesters engaged in a vigorous political debate.

They maintained that they were merely collecting data on doctors in hopes
that abortion providers, like Nazi war criminals, could one day be tried
for ``crimes against humanity.'' And they stressed that nowhere in any of
the materials is there a threat to do bodily harm.

But on the stand, defendant Andrew Burnett, publisher of Life Advocate
Magazine, conceded that doctors may have reason to fear the Web site
because of the extent of anti-abortion violence.

``If I was an abortionist,'' he said, ``I would be afraid.''

Defendants had indicated that no matter what the verdict, their tactics
would not change. They also said any monetary award would have nothing more
than a symbolic impact because they have transferred their assets to make
themselves ``judgment-proof.''

The plaintiffs sued under federal racketeering statutes and the 1994
Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, which makes it illegal to incite
violence against abortion doctors and their patients.

While the law has been used often against people who have firebombed
clinics or attacked doctors, this case, filed in 1995, was believed to be
the first not to result from a violent confrontation or a direct,
person-to-person threat.

© Copyright 1999 The Associated Press



AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and

[CTRL] The Melting Pot


 -Caveat Lector-

The U.S. Government admits, via the INS, the few hundred thousand
immigrants each year.  Yet I don't see where the Feds take any
responsibility for bringing the people into the mainstream.  As with
financial responsibility (a requirement for the immigrant or the sponsor,
or both), there might be considered some additional responsibilities for
incorporating those new to our land in terms of language, skills, and the
like.  What I see as the very down side of the whole issue is described
thusly:

"" The first-wave immigrants, by and large, eagerly embraced their New
World identity, in a process of assimilation that seems brutal in our own
multicultural age. The children who attended the Montauk school in those
days learned English by sitting in class until they got it. Many of them
probably never did get it -- high-school graduation was a rare achievement
in the early years of this century -- but the schools were often more
concerned with assimilating children than with educating them. ""

If a person can't even read an employment application ...


From NY Times on AOL

The Bilingual Barrier

Why is it that bilingual-education programs work least for the Hispanics
who put the most stock in them? A junior high in Brooklyn may hold the
answers. By JAMES TRAUB Photographs By SYLWIA KAPUCINSKI

Picture
In Mr. Garcia's seventh-and-eighth-grade bilingual class, Spanish is the
language of the instruction, textbooks and homework. English is reserved
for key words.




Intermediate School 223, a junior high school in the Borough Park
neighborhood of Brooklyn, is a square brick building with a paved yard in
back where kids chase one another around after lunch. Everything about it
looks worn and scuffed and old-fashioned, right down to the ancient desks
and fold-down seats mounted on cast-iron frames. The Montauk school, as it
is rather incongruously known, is one of the venerable institutions in New
York's public-school system. It opened its doors in 1925, and in streamed
the children of the newly arrived Irish, Italian and Eastern European
immigrants. History has repeated itself, and the students who now swarm
through the door are Mexican, Russian, Chinese, Pakistani, Yemeni, Bengali,
Polish, Dominican -- the children of the second wave of immigration.

The first-wave immigrants, by and large, eagerly embraced their New World
identity, in a process of assimilation that seems brutal in our own
multicultural age. The children who attended the Montauk school in those
days learned English by sitting in class until they got it. Many of them
probably never did get it -- high-school graduation was a rare achievement
in the early years of this century -- but the schools were often more
concerned with assimilating children than with educating them.


James Traub is a contributing writer for the magazine. His most recent
article, about Jerry Speyer's real-estate empire, appeared in December.


Left to his own devices, Montauk's principal, a silver-haired veteran
educator named James Hayden, would be teaching children pretty much this
same way today. The school is a stubbornly old-fashioned institution that
greets visitors with a big sign that reads, "A Traditional School, and
Proud of It." But Hayden is not left to his own devices. I.S. 223, like
schools everywhere, is obliged to offer bilingual instruction to its
nonnative speakers. What makes the Montauk school unusual is that it offers
bilingual classes not only in Spanish but also in Russian and Chinese.

"I've got so many new Bengali-speaking kids coming in that they could make
me offer Bengali bilingual," Hayden said last summer. "I'm just hoping they
won't notice." By "they," he meant school officials at the city's central
board of education. Hayden has a low opinion of bilingual classes in
general and doesn't think his Bengali students would benefit from bilingual
instruction in particular. (To his relief, school officials apparently
didn't notice, and besides, there was no guarantee he could find a Bengali
instructor.)

Bilingual education is one of those human interventions on behalf of the
disadvantaged that date from the 1960's. The question is whether, like some
of those other interventions -- say, special education -- it is doing more
harm than good for its intended beneficiaries. Certainly the tide of public
opinion appears to be turning against it. Last year, voters in California
passed Proposition 227, forbidding mandatory bilingual instruction.
Hispanic parents in both New York and California have filed lawsuits to get
their children released from bilingual programs where, parents allege, they
are often being held against their will.

Nothing so significant is happening at I.S. 223. But what is intriguing
about the school is

Re: [CTRL] Doctor Injects Self With Deadly HIV (fwd)

1999-02-02 Thread Danny Cox


 -Caveat Lector-

You wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

Thank you for this fascinating article.  May I have your permission to
forward
it to a few off-list friends?
Samantha


I didn't have time to read through the entire post. However, I know
that Dr. Willner died of a heart attack a few years ago. That may not
be relevant to the post, but I thought I would mention it. At the very
least, it would invalidate his experiment of injecting himself with
HIV.

Danny

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Om

Re: [CTRL] ``The Nuremberg Files''


 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Alamaine Ratliff wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Again, in the concept of "Free Speech" resides, implicitly,
 "responsibility".  The interesting thing about the title of the subject web
 site is that it identifies one group of people for whom a bounty has been
 posted.  As the article states, "" They maintained that they were merely
 collecting data on doctors in hopes that abortion providers, like Nazi war
 criminals, could one day be tried for ``crimes against humanity.'' "", the
 argument could be made on the other side as well -- the subjects of the
 Nurmeberg trials were accused of having it in for a select group of people.

One of the original crimes against humanity which was used to convict the
Nazi death doctors WAS that of the perinatal murder of children, ie
abortion. If you want the translations just send a postal letter to
"Helmholtz", 7954 Elwell St., Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, V5E 1M4.
FWP.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

[CTRL] Skeptic News Tuersday #2

1999-02-02 Thread Ric Carter


 -Caveat Lector-

SkeptiNews 990202b - - - - - - - - - - - All The News That's Fit To Question

: Passages starting with : are editorial comments to provoke discussion.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

*** Groundhog predicts early spring. PUNXSUTAWNEY, Pa. Thousands of winter-
weary people who waited through a rainy night were rewarded this morning:
Groundhog Punxsutawney Phil didn't see his shadow. That means, according to
legend, that spring is just around the corner. A cheer went up as members of
the local Groundhog Day club made the announcement, shortly after dawn. If
Phil had seen his shadow, it would have meant six more weeks of winter. See
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558298838-14a

: Are groundhogs better, cheapier, friendlier, prettier than meteorologists?
Are groundhogs psychic? Do they have alien implants? What is their secret?

*** Canada groundhog dies before event. WIARTON, Ontario (AP) - The crowd at
Canada's top Groundhog Day festival got worse news than a bad weather fore-
cast: They learned that star groundhog Wiarton Willie had died. Some chil-
dren among the 200 people burst into tears. Willie died of natural causes
Sunday night, but his death was not disclosed until Tuesday's ceremony. "We
didn't really know what to do," said Sam Brouwer, Willie's caretaker for the
past 10 years. "We were absolutely devastated." Willie was lying in a pine
coffin for a public viewing Tuesday morning. His paws were crossed, pennies
were placed over his eyelids and he was clutching a carrot. See
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558300299-a79

: Are you devastated by groundhogs? Is there a conspiracy to silence ground-
hogs who don't deliver the right forecast? Who's behind this: ETs, CIA, NWO?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

*** Prowling tiger still mystery in New Jersey. JACKSON, N.J. (AP) - People
move to this fast-growing suburban enclave in the scrub pines to get away
from the big city. A prowling tiger has shown some residents just how far
they've gone. Last week, a 431-pound Bengal tiger wandered around a residen-
tial subdivision for several hours until it was shot to death by police.
See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558299237-ad6

: Will global warming leave more tigers roaming around US suburbs? When?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

*** Thai crown prince seeks probe. BANGKOK (AP) In a rare foray into public
issues, Thailand's crown prince is supporting a government investigation
into a Buddhist temple accused of bilking the poor and operating like a
cult. Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn's secretaries told government officials he
was concerned the temple was attempting to exploit the royal family to gain
followers. Thailand's royal family is revered as semi-divine by the count-
ry's citizens. www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558296894-e98

: Do you exploit divinities? Is that dangerous? Are Buddhists more crooked
than Judeo/Xian/Moslems, Hindus, Atheists, or Animists, or about the same?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 Anti-Abortion Activists Guilty In Internet Case. PORTLAND, Oregon (CNN) -
Anti-abortion activists whose controversial Web site, "The Nuremberg Files,"
struck fear in abortion providers were found guilty Tuesday of illegally
threatening doctors and abortion providers. The eight-person jury delivered
its verdict after a three-week trial in Portland, Oregon. The plaintiffs,
abortion-rights activists seeking $200 million in their lawsuit, say the
defendants used thinly veiled tactics of intimidation, such as the practice
on the Web site of crossing off the names of slain abortion providers.
http://cnn.com/US/9902/02/abortion.web.verdict.01/index.html

: Are netted threats different than mailed or phoned threats? Does your
religion approve of threats? How about prayed threats? Do your gods listen?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

*** NASA planning plane bound for Mars. WASHINGTON (AP) - To mark the 100th
anniversary of the Wright Brothers first airplane flight NASA wants to dup-
licate the event - sort of - on Mars. The NASA budget for 2000 contains $50
million to begin development of a Mars airplane. An animated video played at
the budget briefing showed a small, pilotless plane parachuting toward the
sandy surface, unfolding its wings and propeller, and puttering off. In ac-
tuality, a lot about the plane remains to be determined, including actual
design and means of propulsion and delivery to Mars, NASA chief Daniel S.
Goldin said. Flying in Mars' atmosphere is like flying at 100,000 to 130,000
feet altitude above Earth, so much research needs to be done. A long-range
jetliner flies at about 30,000 feet altitude. There is also an eight-minute
time lag for radio messages between Earth and Mars, complicating the control
of the plane, which would be unmanned. The goal, if all goes well, is to
make the flight in 2003, the 100th anniversary of the Wright Brothers
flight, though NASA's briefing papers admitted it could slip to 2005. ###

: Are prop-planes suitable for Mars

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order


 -Caveat Lector-

Source - Richard wrote:



 I still believe many of you on the list have a lot of catching up to do
 regarding the current resurgance of the Neo-nazis and Fascist ideals
 amongst todays society, and hope that we can build a strong, meaningful and
 hopefully effective discussion on this most essential of lists.  Come on CTRL,
 pull your socks up!!!


As, I believe, you do as well. Who do you think is behind this movement
and what is their purpose in pushing it?
   About two years ago I spent a great deal of time studying the
question of whether or not the Holocaust happened as we are taught in
the schools and media. I went at it as neutral as possible, realizing
long before my studies began that we are lied to constantly. In fact, at
the end of my studies I came to the conclusion that the Holocaust was
not truthfully portrayed by our common history books. So, I guess you
might call me a "revisionist". However, the anomalies that had lead many
to doubt the whole genocide story lead me to believe that, in fact, that
the British intelligence had known through their ability to break the
German codes of details of the Holocaust from near its beginning. And, I
believe that this has been one of the reasons why no debate on this
subject is allowed. For it was obvious to me after a while that many
details of the Holocaust which the deniers were bringing out could only
be explained by the fact that British Intelligence had known from the
beginning. I gave a speech at a meeting in Atlanta to a group called
"Americans for Lawful Government" reporting my findings. It was well
received and of those few members who had been leaning towards the
denier's position, most saw the error of their arguments and renounced
them and the rest stopped attending. During my speech I mentioned my
belief that the British Intelligence had known of the systematic
killings. Less then a month later AP verified my belief in the following
report:

 Documents show Britain was
 aware of Holocaust

 Secret transcripts follow killings
 'as they happened'

 May 19, 1997
 Web posted at: 11:14 p.m. EDT (0314 GMT)

 LONDON (AP) -- Winston Churchill
 and other British leaders knew Nazi
 Germany was killing Jews from the
 first massacres in June 1941 to the final
 concentration camp gassings in 1945,
 according to intelligence documents released
Monday.

 The previously classified transcripts of German
police radio
 messages, intercepted by British code-breakers,
show senior
 officials knew where Jews were being killed almost
from day to
 day.

 As Hitler's Third Reich conquered most of Europe
and marched
 into the Soviet Union, the transcripts document the executions
 that followed -- some involving just a few Jews and
others tens
 of thousands.

 It has long been known that Allied leaders were
aware of the
 genocide before it became widespread public
knowledge. But the
 hundreds of pages of documents released Monday suggest
 senior wartime British officials had more
information about the
 killing than previously believed.

 "What these records reveal is how
 much the British knew of the atrocities
 as they were happening," said John
 Fox, a lecturer in Jewish
history and
 Holocaust studies at Jew's
College in
 London.

 Britain was able to obtain great
 amounts of enemy material
because it
 broke Germany's top-secret code -- nicknamed
Enigma. The
 information was given only to Churchill and a few senior
 intelligence officials.

 Last fall, the U.S. National Security Agency
declassified a
 handful of documents from the Public Record Office,
the British
 government's archive.

 The records, which were loaned to the U.S.
government in 1981
 to aid in its war crimes investigation, revealed
that the British
 knew the Nazis were systematically killing Jews in
the Soviet
 Union as early as June 1941.

 That was more than a year earlier than previously
 acknowledged. It was not until December 17, 1942,
that the

Re: [CTRL] SNET: Re: Movie on Conspiracy to Control Internet.(fwd)


 -Caveat Lector-

Franklin Wayne Poley wrote:


 Let's put this forward as a "thesis" and see if it has any merit. The
 internet is a system used to control the thinking of the masses while
 maintaining the illusion that they are engaging in free expression. Could
 the Pentagon have foreseen that when they created the (D)ARPA net? Well,
 it is their job to foresee such things.
 FWP.


No, their job is to "sell" the public on the need for a military and
march around like they are fulfilling that need. Foresee the future?
Most military at the onset of W.W.II had used their "foreseeing" ability
to prepare for W.W.I. The Internet was conceived and produced for the
purpose of continual communications between computers after W.W.III. The
civilians they hired to do the job did it so well that now it not only
can survive W.W.III, but probably them, as well. Oops!

Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Re: [CTRL] [mindcontrol] Re: Wes Thomas and the Need for Genetic ...


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 4:35:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  To restate:  it seems fair and germiane to discuss the possibility that
 list owners or moderators might have an agenda as per their list control
 behavior.   

Well, I DO have an agenda.  I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but my
agenda is to enhance discussion, to keep rhetoric to a minimum, to get away
from personal attacks, to see more people posting their ideas and thoughts, to
see nazi propaganda and holocaust denial has no place in our discussions, to
see that proselytizing does not take place, to further general discussion, to
promote the extension of our thoughts into new areas of concern instead of the
same old ones we have been looking at for so long (though I am NOT for
stifling that "same old discussion").  I have an agenda and that is pretty
much it, if you would like to challenge any of those points please do so and I
will respond to whatever you have to say.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] KGBing the USA


 -Caveat Lector-

Newshawk:- Hopwood

Pubdate: January 13, 1999

Source: Anderson Valley Advertiser (CA)

Copyright: Anderson Valley Advertiser

Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Author: Tony Serra


KGB-ING AMERICA


The late 60s, when I started practice, were marked by a great number of
salient political causes, embodied in demonstrations in Berkeley and San
Francisco. I came to represent the White Panthers, the Black Panthers.
the Symbionese Liberation Army, and a number of other groups like the
New Liberation Front. I confronted a phenomenon then, which we hoped
would diminish, but which has instead increased steadfastly. I'll call
that phenomenon "The Secret Police Motif: Orwellian Prophesy Fulfilled"
or "The KGB-ing of America."


Informants: In every criminal case in our alleged system of justice,
some form of spy mentality is now present. There are degrees of
informants. We probably have more nomenclature for informants than does
any other culture. We have citizen informants, confidential informants,
confidential reliable informants, unnamed anonymous informants,
informants who are precipient informants who are participatory,
informants who are merely eye-witnesses, informants who are
co-defendants, informants who precipitate charges by reverse stings. We
are con-fronting informants and cooperating witnesses at every level:
preliminary hearings, grand juries, and state and federal jury trials.
Our system of justice is permeated by the witness or the provocateur who
is paid by government for a role in either revealing or instigating
crime. It's probably the greatest tragedy of my career, in terms of
whether or not justice is really pursued and whether truth is a
foundation for actualizing justice.



I reason: if the defense went out and bought witnesses-paid $10,000 for
one witness, $20,000 for another, and $50,000 for another for their
testimony - it would be laughable from the jury's point of view they
would soundly reject that type of witness; they would be called
obstruction of justice defendants and the lawyers would he prosecuted.
Obviously, you can't do that. On the other hand, in every major case the
informant or cooperating witness gets something far more precious than
money; they get liberty. They get 20 years or 10 years knocked off their
sentences. They get to settle in a new lifestyle with a new identity and
obtain a job or relocating in the federal or state witness protection
program. The government is paying their witnesses with freedom. The
witnesses have to deliver what the government wants or they don't get
that bargain. As a consequence the courts are rife with false testimony;
every cause is polluted by informants. The adversary system is tainted
because everyone rolls or becomes a government witness and therefore
there is no opposition. Constitutional rights aren't litigated because
cases are determined by how much evidence an informant or corroborating
witness can give you. At every level, the independent judiciary is
eroding.


It's something we confront every day. People in the American sub-culture
experience paranoia because they never know who is a spy or an
informant. There's paranoia in he court system because you never know
whether your co-defendant is recording you. There's paranoia among the
lawyers because you never know if your own defendant is rolling behind
your back and recording you. In my opinion, the singularly unexpected
and singularly and singularly aspect of our system of criminal
jurisprudence is the use of the informant.


Grand  Juries: Back in the 60's the government used grand juries to some
small degree. Today, every Federal case - 99.9% of all Federal cases -
involves indictment by grand jury. That means no preliminary hearing, no
confrontation, and no lawyer present on the behalf of the accused. The
accused isn't there and doesn't see, hear or confront, or cross-examine
his or her accusers. The grand jury system by its nature is secretive;
it is considered a felony to reveal anything that occurred or what your
testimony was.


We have a kind of misplaced historical procedure. We inherited the grand
jury from English Common Law, where they used it to go after the lords
and persons who were otherwise above the law. In a sense it was needed
and justified then. But in our country, it is used now as an instrument
of terror. Everyone fears it. You have relatives testifying against one
another. With no confidentiality privilege with respect to family
members other than husbands and wives, you have parents called to
testify against their children. Children are called to testify against
their parents, and brother against sister, and so on. It lacks all due
process. It is immoral. It is an instrument of oppression. It's another
secret tool of an expanding executive branch.


Mandatory Sentences

"Three Strikes" types of penal laws are prevalent both in federal and
state jurisdictions. Beyond that, in most federal cases, at least in
drug cases, but spilling over

Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 6:08:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 And, I could find nothing in
 any of the Journals they carried about this revelation. The second
 question, of course, is why not? Something is very fishy about this
 whole thing. You would think that there would have been a lot more about
 it in the news then, for instance, the Nazi gold in Switzerland. Also,
 the documents should set the total number killed much more accurately
 then was possible previously. Any ideas?

 Howard Davis 

Well, as to why you could find nothing out about the allies knowledge of the
Holocaust it seems to me to be perfectly obvious.  They do not want to
implicate themselves in the mass murder by allowing the fact that they knew
what was going on to get out.  It would show them guilty for complicity for
not doing something about it at the time or at least denouncing the Germans
and their genocidal efforts at the time.  It also would explain Britains
desire to give the Jews Palestine after the war as a sort of payoff.  There is
much more to the issue as well, I believe that there were many people in both
the American political machine and military, as well as in Britain who saw
nothing wrong with the wholesale slaughter and thus did nothing to bring it to
light until later when it served their purposes.  The fault for what happened
is not only Germany's that's for sure.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] COPA Put on Ice


 -Caveat Lector-

Latest News
VICTORY! Judge Blocks Child Online Protection Act
(February 1, 1999)



United States District Judge Lowell Reed has entered a preliminary
injunction against the Child Online Protection Act. Read the court's
opinion.



--


ACLU v. Reno, Round II Update:
First Major Ruling Expected by February 1
(January 27, 1999)

PHILADELPHIA -- With closing arguments concluded late Tuesday, Judge
Lowell A. Reed, Jr. called lawyers for the government and the American
Civil Liberties Union back into court today for a final
"question-and-answer" session regarding the constitutionality of a new
federal Internet censorship law.

Judge Reed is expected to rule on whether to block the law by Monday,
February 1, when a temporary restraining order he imposed against the
law in November is scheduled to expire.

The new law makes it a federal crime for commercial websites to
communicate material considered "harmful to minors." Penalties include
fines of up to $150,000 for each day of violation, and up to six months
in prison if convicted of a crime.

At the six-day hearing, the ACLU presented testimony from website
operators who provide free information for artists, lesbian and gay men,
and the disabled, who all fear that a new federal law will force them to
shut down their websites.

If the court issues a preliminary injunction, Internet speakers will
remain safe from prosecution and fines and a full trial will be
scheduled. The government will then have to decide whether it wants to
pursue an appeal.

For more information on the case, read the ACLU's January 20 news
release, legal briefs, and other documents below.


__
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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[CTRL] Iraq: Spy data 'sent via Australian station'


 -Caveat Lector-

Spy data 'sent via Australian station'

By LINCOLN WRIGHT

Canberra Times Thursday Jan 28

A former United States National Security Agency officer, Bill Arkin,
has reportedly told the New York Times that intelligence data from
Iraq might have been transmitted through an Australian
communications station in Victoria, used during the Cold War.

Mr Arkin, who once worked for the NSA the world's largest electronic
spy outfit has joined former United Nations Special Commission
officer Scott Ritter in his criticism of UNSCOM'S activities in Iraq,
where it has been accused of spying for the US.

Electronic interceptions made by Australian intelligence officers
around the world at the height of the Cold War were transmitted
through the Watsonia station, in Victoria, but a national security
specialist said yesterday that he doubted the station was used for
intelligence gathered in Iraq.

He said it was more likely that any such data was first transmitted to
the US through the joint-intelligence facility at Pine Gap in the
Northern Territory, or through the NSA's station at Menwith Hill,
Yorkshire.

"These are the two most secure routes," he said.

The Federal Government rejected yesterday the reports that
Australians spied for the United States in Iraq, and said Mr Ritter, the
former head of UNSCOM'S Concealment Unit in Iraq, lacked
credibility.

Mr Ritter said in The Canberra Times yesterday that last July the US
Government had directed the head of UNSCOM, Australian Richard
Butler, to pass on any intelligence it gathered in Iraq to the US.

The Australian Government was fully aware of this peculiar
arrangement, he said, despite its endangering lives of UNSCOM
members and breaching the UN's mandate in Iraq.

He had also said the US did not want to disarm Saddam Hussein's
regime, only to contain it with economic sanctions. Before
December's bombing of Iraq, the US was fearful of having to back
down again; to avoid this, Washington decided to "rein in"
UNSCOM's intelligence activities.

A spokesman for the Minister for Defence, John Moore, said
yesterday, "We think Mr Ritter lacks credibility. The Economist says
he lacks credibility and so do we. All staff provided by Australia to
UNSCOM were provided in response to specific requests by the UN.

''The purpose of their involvement was to assist in efforts to establish
the location, extent, type and destruction of weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq."

Mr Ritter has said that by withholding intelligence support at a crucial
moment, the US Government blocked a surprise inspection of the
document sites of Saddam Hussein's secretary, Abid Hamid
Mahmoud, and that at least six times between November, 1996, and
August, 1998, the US had intervened directly to stop surprise
inspections.

==
"Everyone has the right...to seek, receive and impart information and
ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." - Universal
Declaration of Human Rights


http://www.angelfire.com/mi/smilinks/thirdeye.html
http://www.headwatersforest.org/david.chain/index.html






__
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Steamshovel update

1999-02-02 Thread Kenn Thomas


 -Caveat Lector-

New this week at the Steamshovel site:

Remy Chevalier's Rally To End Secrecy

Loren Coleman on the AIDS Chimps and Sasquatch

Carol Rosin on the Clinton Military Build Up

All at "Things Are Gonna Slide" at Steamshovel.

http://www.umsl.edu/~skthoma

kt

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] Mass Poisoning? An UPDATE


 -Caveat Lector-

Fwd:

  I just got the following message from William Thomas
  (http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco) a veteran journalist
  covering military activity who broke the story on wide-
  spread accounts of spraying from USAF jets that makes
  people sick and leaves local hospitals overflowing.

  USAF Jets Said To Be Spraying Something That Sickens:
   http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jan99/1999L-01-12-01.html
   http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jan99/1999L-01-08-05.html

  Since the story broke, William has been flooded with
  accounts from around the nation of massive jet-spray
  operations followed by widespread illness below. I've
  received many such accounts and I don't know what to
  make of this: Are these false associations? Are people
  pulling my leg? Or is this true? Will Thomas says yes!

  To get an idea of how widespread these jet-poisoning
  reports are, listen to the 1/25/99 Art Bell show here:
  http://ww2.broadcast.com/artbell/archive99.html#jan99

  As we have seen, with respect to the now-repealed U.S.
  Code 10(1520), the use of entire "civilian populations"
  for the testing of any chemical or biological warfare
  agent has been fully permitted, subject only to minor
  conditions. The new law, USC 10(1520(a)), puts limits
  only on any public poisoning conducted by one official.

  If mass poisoning is defined in the law, can we really
  say that reports of jets spraying sickness down from
  the skies is such a big surprise?  -- Ian Goddard

 This could be the biggest and most-covered-up story ever:


Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:03:48 -0800 (PST)
To: Ian Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: William Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Foreign Troops?

Hi Ian,

. . . please issue the following alert.
The clock is tickin...

Something huge is going on. In many regions, I can confirm that
hospital emergency rooms are filled to overflowing with a sudden
epidemic of acute respiratory patients suffering from something doctors
cannot diagnose - and that is NOT the flu. Newspapers in Bakersfield,
California are reporting jammed emergency rooms. Here's a typical story
from a North Carolina newspaper:

"FEELING ROTTEN? Outbreak of respiratory illnesses has doctors' offices
full, but it's probably not the flu."  by  Rebecca Lentz, Staff Writer

"Call it the creeping crud. Call it a virus. Call it whatever you'd
like. But whatever it is, it's miserable.

"Adults and children alike are down for the count with the virus. Upper
respiratory infections are keeping doctors' offices hopping and the
hospital seeing record numbers of patients.

"Medac, a walk-in clinic, has been busy with patients complaining of
similar symptoms. New Hanover Regional's patient count has been at its
highest level in history, with 503 of its available 504 inpatient beds
filled on Jan. 7. On Sunday, the patient count stood at 454. Even so,
the majority of illnesses aren't influenza, health officials said.


This much we know:

1. Reports of odd "contrails" are coming in from 22 states so far. Many
sightings occurred months or years before this story was made public -
prompting impromptu snapshots and video recordings and calls to the
attention of friends and bystanders by people who are quite used to
seeing commercial airplanes and normal contrails - and were astonished
to see giant X's and grid-patterns woven "like  Tic-tac-toe" by large
aircraft criss-crossing the sky, often for hours over the same area.

2. These are not "contrails" being reported. The aircraft have been
positively identified as USAF Boeing KC-135 and KC-10 air-to-air
refueling aircraft spraying an unidentified substance from their
tail-booms.

3. The observed tanker aircraft are not engaged in routine formation
flying or air-to-air refueling. JP8 fuel inadvertently spilled or dumped
to lower landing weights atomizes at jet speeds and does not fall as
"cobwebs" observed by police officers and other reliable witnesses.
Routine fuel dumping does not continue over hours by multiple aircraft
weaving furrows over the same area until clear blue skies are completely
hazed over.

4. Now occurring daily, this extremely expensive nationwide "spraying"
is deliberate and laid down in specific patterns over hours.

5. These are not "cloud-seeding" activities as no clouds are present and
local weather does not turn to rain immediately after these events.

6.  In some notable cases, violent and unseasonal storms such as the
recent flurry of "summer" tornadoes over Tennessee and heavy snowfall in
Bakersfield, CA and Phoenix, AZ have occurred within days of documented
(videotaped) spraying. Sharp "spikes" in power output from the USN/USAF
"ionospheric heater" known has HAARP have were recorded just before last
December's "horizontal snowstorm", localized around Turret Peak, AZ.
These weather anomalies - and HAARP - may be related to aerial spraying
using fast-dissolving, "smart plastic" polymers to catch HAARP's
high-intensity radio

[CTRL] IMF and World Bank, Twins in Trouble


 -Caveat Lector-

  Copyright 1999 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
  Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.

  *** 25-Jan-99 ***

Title: DEVELOPMENT-ASIA: IMF and World Bank, Twins in Trouble

By Boonthan Sakanond

BANGKOK, Jan 25 (IPS) - Under intense attack for their failures in
dealing with East Asia's economic crisis, the International
Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank (WB) are desperately launching
fire-fighting measures to ease the recession's social impact.

But critics fear that without adequate rethinking of the
policies they prescribe to governments, the twin multilateral
lending bodies may end up putting a 'human face' only to their
public image -- and not to the development process they promote.

At a World Bank-sponsored meeting in Bangkok over the weekend,
the two agencies along with delegates from the government and non-
governmental sector brainstormed about responses to the social
disaster created by the region's economic crisis.

They targeted action areas like employment generation,
protection of health and education services, tackling social
consequences at the city and community level and monitoring
poverty impact and income distribution.

In a curious shift away from its usual focus on macroeconomic
issues, the World Bank has identified small and medium enterprises
and microfinance institutions as institutions which can reach the
most number of affected people.

''Rampant unemployment and inflation have pushed millions of
households back into poverty. School attendance and health status
are under threat, and gender gaps may well widen again,'' said a
report by the Bank at the meeting.

The report expressed fears that unless something is done
quickly, East Asia's past success in poverty reduction and human
development could be undone.

Since July 1997, the Bank has pledged some 16 billion U.S.
dollars to the region and already disbursed more than 4 billion
dollars in structural adjustment loans, which Bank officials say
have strong social content.

In Indonesia, Thailand and South Korea, the three countries
hardest hit by the crisis, Bank funds are being used in job
creation projects, training for the unemployed, low-income health
insurance schemes, small-scale community projects and larger
municipal projects.

Bank project funds are also being used to set up a monitoring
system to evaluate the crisis' impact and of public action on the
poor.

''It is critical that social suffering is alleviated not only
for human reasons, but also for the sake of a rapid micro and
macroeconomic recovery,'' says Jean-Michel Severino, World Bank's
vice president for East Asia and Pacific.

He expects further deterioration of the social situation in the
coming year. Maintaining adequate levels of social spending, Bank
officials say, is the only way of containing the damage due to the
economic crisis.

Given its emphasis on social spending, it is not surprising
that the World Bank has openly clashed with the Fund, criticising
the latter for its imposition of tight fiscal and monetary
policies and cutbacks in state spending in the crisis' early
stages. These steps are believed to have worsened the situation.

In a rare admission of its fallibility, the IMF this month said
in a report it had ''underestimated the economic downturn and
misjudged the market response to its support programme for
Thailand, South Korea and Indonesia''.

But IMF officials defended the tight fiscal and monetary
policies they prescribed to governments in the region, saying they
were needed ''at the time to restore confidence and to prevent the
crisis-hit economies from plunging into an inflation-depreciation
spiral''.

Many Fund insiders believe that by publicly criticising these
policies, the World Bank is trying to isolate the IMF and to
distance itself from blame for responding poorly to the crisis.

''The (World) Bank was primarily responsible for designing and
monitoring the social protection components of the adjustment
programmes in Asia,'' said Peter Heller, IMF deputy director, at
the Bangkok meeting.

To some, his remarks seemed to imply it is the Bank that should
take major responsibility for the severity of the social crisis.
Heller added the Bank had spent ''many years and considerable
resources on Indonesia'', where social infrastructure has failed
to cope with the impact of the crisis.

Such public squabbling between the Bretton Woods twins further
undermines their credibility among social organisations and long-
time critics of the economic doctrine they prescribe.

''Reform of the IMF and World Bank is required so that
structural adjustment programmes promote good governance, respect
for human rights and core labour standards, increased employment
and poverty reduction, rather than current policies of
austerity,'' said a statement issued at the meeting by the
International Confederation of Free Trade Unions.

Critics also accuse the World Bank and IMF of having

[CTRL] Gov Ventura Proposes Eliminating State funding for MPR


 -Caveat Lector-

(From "StudioBriefing")

JESSE VENTURA CUTTING PUBLIC RADIO FUNDS

Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura on Thursday proposed eliminating state
funding of Minnesota Public Radio, arguably the nation's most successful
public radio enterprise, and phasing out funds for public television
over a four-year period as well. Ventura observed that he had once
earned his living as a radio talk-show host on commercial stations and
that public radio stations often boast better facilities than the
stations where he worked. Minnesota Public Radio is the home of Garrison
Keillor's A Prairie Home Companion. It claims that only 2 percent of its
funding comes from the state.
--
Jesse Walker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://wesley.nnc.edu/hdm/files/stlouis.htm
Los Angeles, California

"Give us bread -- and circuses, too."

"Everyone has the right...to seek, receive and impart information and
ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." - Universal
Declaration of Human Rights


http://www.angelfire.com/mi/smilinks/thirdeye.html
http://www.headwatersforest.org/david.chain/index.html



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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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[CTRL] Pentagon Wants Emergency Authority Within USA


 -Caveat Lector-

January 28, 1999

Pentagon Seeks Command for Emergencies in U.S.

By WILLIAM J. BROAD and JUDITH MILLER

The Pentagon has decided to ask President Clinton for the power to
appoint a military leader for the continental United States because of
what it sees as a growing threat of major terrorist strikes on American
soil, Defense Department officials say.

The plan calls for the military leader to be ready, if necessary, to do
such things as order thousands of doctors, stretchers and emergency
personnel quickly sent to stricken areas, much as American commanders
abroad are now prepared to do.

The Pentagon, which currently has no organization for such crisis work,
has quietly discussed the plan for about a year and recently decided to
press ahead and ask for Presidential approval.

Top White House officials have reacted favorably, characterizing the
proposed step as a relatively minor adjustment of the lines of military
authority and organization.

But civil libertarians and some Administration officials fear that such
military power could slowly expand to threaten the privacy, liberty and
lives of private citizens.  Defenders of the plan, including Pentagon
officials, insist that it would do no such thing and that the nation
needed homeland defense to deal with terrorists armed with deadly germs,
chemicals and skills for attacking the nation's key computer networks.

Military officials added that they had no intention of usurping
civilian control.

"Our only appropriate role is in support of civil agencies that have
the primary responsibility for law and order and emergency response,"
John J. Hamre, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, said in an interview.

Still, a senior Pentagon official, who spoke on the condition of
anonymity, warned that a major terrorist attack had the potential to be
"the most threatening event to civil liberties since Pearl Harbor."

His reference was to how, after Japan's attack on the United States in
World War II, the American military locked up some 120,000 Americans of
Japanese ancestry, an act some historians have characterized as
reckless. The official said the current plan would help prevent such an
overreaction.

The official said Defense Secretary William S. Cohen had recently
signed off on a plan to create a Joint Task Force for Civil Support,
whose commander would develop ways for the Army, Navy, Marines and Air
Force to aid Federal agencies in time of domestic crisis.

The step requires approval by the President. In an interview on Jan. 21
with The New York Times, Clinton said he was carefully weighing the
issue and was deeply aware of the potential abuses of expanded military
power. And the next day, in unveiling his $10 billion program to build
up antiterror defenses, he emphasized the importance of protecting
personal freedom.

"It is essential," Clinton told Federal officials and military officers
gathered at the National Academy of Sciences, "that we don't undermine
liberty in the name of liberty."

Many Americans have a deep mistrust of the military. That uneasiness is
evident in "The Siege," a recent movie in which terrorist attacks
prompt martial law in New York City and the Army general in charge
turns out to be a loose cannon.

Allusions to the Pentagon's new organizational plan emerged quietly
last year when Dr.  Hamre of the Defense Department gave a speech
saying the appointment of a domestic military leader was all but
inevitable and would be essential in helping stave off chaos.

"If there's a bona fide chemical attack in the subway system in New
York, it's going to quickly go beyond what the local police can
handle," Dr. Hamre told military officials. "If there is a biological
attack, you can easily see regional governors calling out the National
Guard to quarantine the highways. It could get crazy very fast."

Critics of the plan say the risks of military help outweigh the
benefits.

"The danger is in the inevitable expansion of that authority so the
military gets involved in things like arresting people and
investigating crimes," said Gregory T. Nojeim, legislative counsel on
national security for the American Civil Liberties Union, based in
Washington.

Soldiers are trained to kill, not to respect the nuances of law
enforcement, Nojeim added.

"It's hard to believe that a soldier with a suspect in the sights of
his M-1 tank is well positioned to protect that person's civil
liberties," he said.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation, Nojeim said, already has the
money, authority and manpower to handle such crises.

But Fred C. Ikl, an Under Secretary of Defense in the Reagan
Administration, applauded finding ways for the military to deal better
with terrorism on American soil.

"Only the armed services have the managerial and logistical
capabilities to mount the all-out defensive effort," Dr. Ikl said in a
report on homeland defense being prepared for the Center for Strategic
and International Studies, a private policy group in

[CTRL] [FUTURE-CITIES] Re: questions for the oceanologist (fwd)

 -Caveat Lector-

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:48:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Franklin Wayne Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [FUTURE-CITIES] Re: questions for the oceanologist

From: Franklin Wayne Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hi Franklin,

 my friend the oceanologist sent me an e-mail today, so I can reply and ask him
 your questions. Only that... er, uhm, shy grin I forgot them. Could you restate
 them again?

 Uwe
 http://www.megalink.net.mx

Thank you for looking into this Uwe. I hate to sound "conspiratorial" but
I have wondered for many years why algae are not being processed as a
kind of flour (for wide scale human use) and fodder (for wide scale
livestock use) especially given that the protein yields/acre even with
shallow pond culture are 20-80 x those of any plant crop (like soybeans or
wheat). Could you please ask the oceanographer?
Sincerely-FWP.

To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] [Fwd: Dear Senator ads hit Washington today!]

1999-02-02 Thread American Patriot Friends Network


 -Caveat Lector-

The differance between "The Rule of Law" and "No Law"
is at this time in history 12 U.S. Senator's!
//KLV//

Contact U.S. Senate:
http://esotericworldnews.com/apfn.htm

 Original Message 
Subject: "Dear Senator" ads hit Washington today!
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:50:10 -0800
From: "D.O.O.R." [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Real-To:  "D.O.O.R." [EMAIL PROTECTED]

World New Daily Exclusive
'Dear Senator' ads hit Washington today
Radio campaign tops $100,000 in funds raised
Check it out at:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19990201_xex_dear_senator.shtml

Then go to to originator's (Steve Vaus - a Patriotic Singer's) Web site:
http://www.stevevaus.com/dearmrpresident.htm

If you feel impressed to help put the heat on the U.S. COWARD Senators for
backing down from their duty to IMPEACH President Bill Clinton for his lying
under OATH,  send in a few $ to the address listed on Steve Vaus' page.
Pablo


American Patriot Friends Network [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://esotericworldnews.com/apfncont.htm

Now is the time!
Please consider forward this message to all your contacts.

Without Justice, there is JUST_US!
http://freeyellow.com/members5/apfn/

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Fw: The Texas Atheist # 22

1999-02-02 Thread Ric Carter


 -Caveat Lector-

-Original Message-
From: Stopforth, Jamie [EMAIL PROTECTED]

And this associated with Conspiracy Theories
because.?

   THE TEXAS ATHEIST
  January 31, 1999  # 22
   Copyright (c) 1999 by Howard Thompson

Oh, maybe for a few of the following:

 IN THIS ISSUE

 1. Texas Events
 2. News/Science Briefs
 O'Hairs, Ex-Cons and a Headless Body
 'Atheist Invasion' T-Shirts for Comfort Visit
 Darwin's Birthday  Houston Party
 Nurses Gotta Pray for Catholic Employer
 God Don't Know Much About Geometry
 Atheist Alliance Austin Convention Activities
 Correction: Atheists United Claims 'Biggest' Title
 Atheist Retirement Communities??
 ACA newsletter Recommended
 Freethinkers Quiz Senator on 'Religious Freedom' Bill
 Court Upholds Legalized Religious Discrimination
 IRS Auctions O'Hair Possessions - Not Diaries
 American Atheists Chat Exclusive and Secret
 California 'Freethought Church' Forming
 3. Groups  Television
 4. Letters
 "trashed the first few issues ... brought my atheism towards the
 forefront"
 "I am one of those 'get up in your face atheists.'"
 5. Commentary: Successful Arlington Conference

Atheists, the IRS, Catholics, the O'Hairs, 'God', Courts, Senators,
etc. may be involved in conspiracies - judge for yourself.

* [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sonic.net/~ric * ICQ# 19633976 *
*
*** SkeptiChat: sliding down the razor-blade of life ***
now featuring SkeptiNews: All The News That's Fit To Question
email INFO or SUBSCRIBE SKEPTICHAT to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Atmospheric Spraying!

1999-02-02 Thread Steve Wingate

-Caveat Lector-
On 2 Feb 99, at 7:18, Andrew Gingery wrote:

> One report of this spraying I read came from a woman who worked at some
> factory.

(The text would not display properly in notepad so I opened it in wordpad and am reprinting it here. --SW)

BIOLOGICAL WARFARE...OR JUST A TEST...

Deposition of a Dead Man

October 15, 1997

As I stepped outside my workplace on my way to my vehicle, I was
thinking the usual, too nice a day to be stuck inside... It was
roughly 1:30 p.m. central time.

I looked up in sky to the south-east as something caught my attention,
a large pattern of unusual jet contrails. I say unusual because it was
very obvious that these were of military origin. At the highest
altitude was an almost perfect circular contrail, which of course
being familiar with Air Force activity, would indicate the presence of
an A.W.A.C. practicing guidance and monitoring of the dog-fight like
activity just below. The lower contrails appeared to be created by
roughly five to seven different aircraft, making sharp turns and steep
dives and climbs. Now, to the average person, sights like these are
quite uncommon...So I went straight home and grabbed my camcorder.

Going out to the porch and setting up my tri-pod, I realized something
very strange was also occurring. Looking up towards the contrails, as
far as the eye could see, was an extremely fine substance floating
down from the exact location of the contrails. Quickly, locating my
binoculars, I could see this angle-hair like substance floating down
in a direct trail from the aircraft activity above. I taped what I
could quickly, of this material floating gently down, and drove to
some friends to see what their opinion was and to what degree this
material was covering. About 1 mile to the south of my home people
driving on the interstate highway claimed it to be so thick that it
appeared similar to snow flurries drifting across the road. Myself and
several friends decided to carefully collect specimens.

Not certain what course to take from here, and being careful not to
jump to conclusions, I compared this material to spiderwebs, because
that is exactly what it looked like. Some of it had "balled up" so the
collection and comparison was quite easy. Doing the basic comparison
tests, immulsion, heat, and basic chemical reaction, the "angel-hair"
always reacted differently than the actual spider webs.

Not wanting to sound paranoid or alarmist, the only thing left to do
was either pass it off, or obtain a professional analysis of the
material, to confirmation that it may be some harmless military
application used in evasive maneuvers, such as a radar absorbent
material.

The first phone call I made was to the Ft. Smith Arkansas regional
airport (F.A.A.) tower. The person here was anything but helpful and
actually "dis-imformative". As he stated he knew nothing of the air
traffic that I was describing to him, but yet made comments that they
were in fact controlling "some" of the traffic. How can you control
something you know nothing about is beyond me. He did however refer me
to "Memphis Central" and "Dallas Ft. Worth" F.A.A. control centers
that were in direct operations with the air traffic.

These two locations were very helpful and not aprehensious about
revealing any information at all. In an attempt to discover the
possible identity of the material, I just related to them that I
wasn't alarmed, but owned a small acreage of hay ground that this
stuff was now covering and that some of my hay was sold to the owners
of purebred race horses. Being extremely careful with their feed, I
told the controllers that the hay was really unimportant to me and if
there might be any implications of risk to the horses I would just
sell to less important markets. Neither of these people however,
could identify the material as I described it. In fact, they were both
quite baffled. The only recourse they made available to me would be to
talk directly to one of the Air Force Bases involved. They did confirm
military flights in the exact described location, but were uncertain
which unit was participating on that day. They also informed me that
contacting the bases would most likely net me zero results.

So, as the situation becomes even more unexplainable, the only
alternative left was to send specimens to a trustworthy biological
lab. Again several more phone calls later, a lab and a direct contact
was established. Because of the nature of the incident however,
results would be slower due to the necessitation of maintaining a low
profile and retaining anonymity with anyone other than the contact. At
this point in time it was still uncertain if any of the material was
anything other than harmless, only that the events surrounding the
event were in a way suspicious, in some respects, and worth
investigating.

It was definitely decided that news media at this point would be
anything but productive. As they are too easily influenced by
"Officials", it would be too

Re: [CTRL] [mindcontrol] Re: Wes Thomas and the Need for Genetic ...


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-02-02 18:29:26 EST, you write:

 Well, I DO have an agenda.  I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but my
  agenda is to enhance discussion, to keep rhetoric to a minimum, to get away
  from personal attacks, to see more people posting their ideas and thoughts,
 to see nazi propaganda and holocaust denial has no place in our discussions,
to
  see that proselytizing does not take place, to further general discussion,
 to promote the extension of our thoughts into new areas of concern instead
of
 the same old ones we have been looking at for so long (though I am NOT for
  stifling that "same old discussion").  I have an agenda and that is pretty
  much it, if you would like to challenge any of those points please do so
and
 I will respond to whatever you have to say.
  Teo1000

I'll try to make this as innocuous as I can..let me rephrase that to a
"sinister agenda" (though I suspect you knew exactly what I meant.)

If we could be free to discuss suspicions about anyone or any group, it
would be grand.  It looks like a big NO.  You appear to be reacting VERY
STRONGLY to a request for free speech MINUS THE INVECTIVE AND PERSONAL
ATTACKS.

By the way, this is the second time you've mentioned Holocaust denials and
nazi propaganda in response to my posts.  Are you perhaps confusing me with
someone who does such things?
Samantha ~~~who takes hints very well

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Fascism On The Move Toward New Order

1999-02-02 Thread nurev


 -Caveat Lector-

flw wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 --
 
   What is interesting is that European Fascists also
 claimed "victimhood".
   Derogation of Individual Freedom in the name of
 Victimhood is a time honored
   Fascist Rite.
 
   "Fascism ends in concentration camps, it does not begin
 with them".
   flw

 
  A friend of mine said the exact same thing to me today.
 He said that the only
  difference between the US today and Nazi Germany is that
 they got to wear
  "really cool uniforms" and we don't.  The Fourth Reich is
 alive and well in
  the good old US of A.
  Teo1000
 
 This is only true for some minorities and political views.
 Otherwise,
 the above statements are way exaggerated as far as most
 Americans are concerned.
 
 J2

 Hmm. Many Germans thought the same thing in the early
 1930's.
 flw

Hey. I'm not defending fascists. I'm just saying that there is too
much exaggeration going on here.

Joshua2

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] More on AIDS as a Weapon: Out of Africa?

1999-02-02 Thread Steve Wingate

 -Caveat Lector-

--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
Date sent:  Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:17:58 -0700 (MST)
From:   MICHAEL SPITZER [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:IUFO: OT?: More on AIDS as a Weapon: Out of Africa? (fwd)
Send reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:29:52 -0600
From: "Boyle, Francis" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'AALS Section on Minority Grps. mailing list'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 'Meryl Nass' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [BIOWAR] AIDS: Out of Africa?

Dear Colleagues:

Many of you probably read the articles in yesterday's New
York Times and Wall Street Journal insinuating that AIDS came out
of Africa. Indeed, the Journal entitled their article: Out of
Africa. Notice the direct reference to Lefkowitz's book, Not Out
of Africa, trying to dispute Bernal's Black Athena. So in other
words, the Journal was trying to make a not-so-subtle racist
point about the supposed African origins of AIDS. Therefore, I
did not bother to read the Journal article. But I did read the
Times article. I was struck by one critical passage that deserves
your attention:  The pivotal finding came from the remains of
a chimpanzee named Marilyn, that died in 1985 and had been
infected with S.I.V.cpz for at least 26 years without showing
signs of AIDS.  Federal scientists kept Marilyn's tissues frozen
for 10 years to await the day when new and improved tests could
more precisely identify the infecting virus.

   In 1959, Marilyn was taken as an infant from somewhere in
Africa to a United States Air Force colony in New Mexico. There,
Marilyn served as a breeder in research projects.

   In 1985, when some chimpanzees were about to be used in AIDS
vaccine research, scientists tested all primates in the colony to
determine if any were infected with H.I.V.-1.  Marilyn was the
only one infected with the simian virus.

 But just as scientists learned that Marilyn was infected, she
was found dead in her cage after having delivered two stillborn
chimpanzees. An autopsy found no evidence of disease.  Marilyn's
remains were then sent to scientists at a National Cancer
Institute laboratory at Fort Detrick, Md., where efforts to grow
the AIDS -like virus failed.

   So the tissues were stored in a freezer for 10 years.

   In 1995, Dr. Larry O. Arthur, a scientist at Fort Detrick and
a co-author of the study, was trying to clean out a crowded
freezer and found Marilyn's tissues. He called Dr. Hahn because
of her well-known interest in the subject. ..

Notice of course that the critical piece of evidence here
was this chimp Marilyn which was taken out of Africa and brought
to the United States where she participated in experiments
sponsored by the United States Air Force, that is the Pentagon.
At this point in time (1959) it is well know that the United
States government and the Pentagon were actively involved in the
research, development and testing of offensive biological weapons
that today are prohibited under both international law and US
domestic law, including the Biological Weapons Convention of 1972
and the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989. Also,why
in 1985 did Pentagon scientists go back to the Pentagon's
Colorado colony of chimps in order to test for AIDS if they did
not have good grounds to believe there was a good chance that
AIDS could be found there among the Pentagon chimps? Certainly
Marilyn's death was unexplained and curious. So much so that
instead of disposing of her remains at the experimental Pentagon
site in Colorado, the Pentagon scientists shipped them off to
Fort Detrick Maryland, where they were considered so important
that they were preserved for subsequent testing and analysis for
over ten years. Of course what the Times does not report is that
Fort Detrick Maryland has always been the primary center for the
Pentagon's research, development and testing of biological
weapons. If Marilyn had been involved in biological warfare
experiments in Colorado run by the Pentagon, then it would make
perfect sense for these Pentagon scientists to ship her remains
to Fort Detrick for preservation and subsequent analysis under
the direct supervision of the Pentagon that runs Fort Detrick.

The best book I know of about the origins of AIDS coming
out of US government sponsored research is by Dr. Leonard G.
Horowitz, Emerging Viruses: AIDS and Ebola (1997). After reading
this book, I submit you will have a very difficult time believing
that AIDS came out of Africa instead of from US government
sponsored research laboratory. Although not on all fores,this New
York Times article contributes to the overall Horowitz thesis.
Francis A. Boyle Professor of Law Author, Biological Weapons
Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989

Francis A. Boyle
Law Building
504 E.

Re: [CTRL] Doctor Injects Self With Deadly HIV (fwd)


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-02-02 17:47:11 EST, you write:

 I didn't have time to read through the entire post. However, I know
  that Dr. Willner died of a heart attack a few years ago. That may not
  be relevant to the post, but I thought I would mention it. At the very
  least, it would invalidate his experiment of injecting himself with
  HIV.

  Danny

Assuming Dr. Willner was not HIV positive before the injection, it would be
interesting to know if he was at the time of death.  Surely he would have
tested himself frequently to provide evidence for his hypothesis.
Samantha

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Mass Poisoning? An UPDATE


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-02-02 19:08:52 EST, you write:

 Newspapers in Bakersfield,
  California are reporting jammed emergency rooms. Here's a typical story
  from a North Carolina newspaper:

From earlier reading (on another list) what has been described is a
substance similar to cobwebs falling from the sky.  The cobwebs melt or
dissolve upon contact.

I told a friend who just moved from Bakersfield what was being posted.
She said she had seen cobweb-like strings hanging from street light poles.
She saw them in October, around Halloween and thought, perhaps, they were
decorations, though they were very thin.  She touched them and they didn't
melt or dissolve on contact.

She was ill in her last month in Bakersfield -- though not with an upper
respiratory infection.  She had three separate bouts of diarrhea in three
weeks and was puzzled by that.  She did mention, however, that whenever she
went to her medical plan's urgent care center to pick up prescriptions, the
urgent care centers were packed with coughing people.

Perhaps her experiences are related to the spraying -- though she
mentioned that people get sick there in October every year -- and that it is
usually chalked up to spraying cotton.
Samantha

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Foster, NSA and Banks (Part 17)


 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Andy Looney wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 J. Orlin Grabbe is a flaming asshole!

ALERT! ALERT! This person (Andy Looney) is not being civil!

Brian Redman
Editor, CNNS

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Doctor Injects Self With Deadly HIV (fwd)


 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Danny Cox wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 You wrote:
 
  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Thank you for this fascinating article.  May I have your permission to
 forward
 it to a few off-list friends?
 Samantha
 

 I didn't have time to read through the entire post. However, I know
 that Dr. Willner died of a heart attack a few years ago. That may not
 be relevant to the post, but I thought I would mention it. At the very
 least, it would invalidate his experiment of injecting himself with
 HIV.

Does not necessarily invalidate his experiment; people die from
heart attacks for all sorts of reasons.

Brian Redman
Editor, CNNS

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Doctor Injects Self With Deadly HIV (fwd)

1999-02-02 Thread Danny Cox


 -Caveat Lector-

You wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-02-02 17:47:11 EST, you write:

 I didn't have time to read through the entire post. However, I know
  that Dr. Willner died of a heart attack a few years ago. That may
not
  be relevant to the post, but I thought I would mention it. At the
very
  least, it would invalidate his experiment of injecting himself with
  HIV.

  Danny

Assuming Dr. Willner was not HIV positive before the injection, it would be
interesting to know if he was at the time of death.  Surely he would have
tested himself frequently to provide evidence for his hypothesis.
Samantha

I remember hearing him on some of the nutrition and health related radio shows here
in South Florida. He stated that he planned to inject himself with HIV and not too
long after that, he had a fatal heart attack. I don't know if he actually carried
out the injection or not. I never heard of any tests being performed. He was not
practicing medicine when he died, because of problems with the medical boards. At
one time, I think he was head of a hospital or a department within a hospital, but
he got into trouble because of his unorthodox views.

If anyone really wants to follow up on this, I could give you the name of a lady who
owns a health food store who had him on her radio program a few times.

Danny

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] [mindcontrol] Re: Wes Thomas and the Need for Genetic ...


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 7:56:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  I'll try to make this as innocuous as I can..let me rephrase that to a
 "sinister agenda" (though I suspect you knew exactly what I meant.)

 If we could be free to discuss suspicions about anyone or any group, it
 would be grand.  It looks like a big NO.  You appear to be reacting VERY
 STRONGLY to a request for free speech MINUS THE INVECTIVE AND PERSONAL
 ATTACKS.

 By the way, this is the second time you've mentioned Holocaust denials
and
 nazi propaganda in response to my posts.  Are you perhaps confusing me with
 someone who does such things?
 Samantha ~~~who takes hints very well
  

Apparently you are incapable of understanding what I am saying in my responses
to you so I will make my answer this time as innocuous as I ca so that you can
understand what it is I am saying.  You asked of agendas and I admitted to
having one.  As to whether they are sinister let the reader judge for
himself/herself.  I have no other agendas except what I have posted above.  If
you would like to think otherwise then feel free, there is naught I can do to
make you change your view.  As to why I mentioned Holocaust denial, I was
trying to be honest in what my agendas are in relation to this list, and was
not trying to say anything about you in particular.
If you have concerns about agendas that are sinister in relation to this list,
from me or others who post here then I expect to see you say something that
would illustrate it, instead of innuendo.  I have clearly stated my position,
what is yours?  I would venture to say that you have an agenda that drives you
and are desirous of getting others to see your point of view, no?  Bearing in
mind what subjects are NOT ALLOWED on this list as is seen in the disclaimer,
feel free to put forward your thesis that I, or Kris, or others here are
controlling the list in a nefarious fashion, if in fact that is what you are
implying.  Free speech without personal rhetoric is encouraged as long as it
does not violate list rules.  Simple, no?
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Gov Ventura Proposes Eliminating State funding for MPR


 -Caveat Lector-

Eric Stewart wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 (From "StudioBriefing")

 JESSE VENTURA CUTTING PUBLIC RADIO FUNDS

 Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura on Thursday proposed eliminating state
 funding of Minnesota Public Radio, arguably the nation's most successful
 public radio enterprise, and phasing out funds for public television
 over a four-year period as well. Ventura observed that he had once
 earned his living as a radio talk-show host on commercial stations and
 that public radio stations often boast better facilities than the
 stations where he worked. Minnesota Public Radio is the home of Garrison
 Keillor's A Prairie Home Companion. It claims that only 2 percent of its
 funding comes from the state.
 --

Only 2 percent? Then they certainly won't miss it.

Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] List Participation

1999-02-02 Thread Jim Norman



Teo One Thousand wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
I am for seeing more substantive discussion. I would like to see
more people
getting involved here and posting their comments on things conspiratorial.
There are certain few who seem to dominate the list with certain pet
areas of
concern (this is not bad because we get a lot of good information,
and I am
guilty of this as well), and that tends to make people uncomfortable
talking
about other issues. In addition I make pretty dogmatic pronouncements
myself
which tend to cause others to think twice before posting comments that
I am
likely to take an opposite stance on (such as the UFO phenomenon, alien
abduction, mind control theories, and religious conspiracy).
Some people fear
that their comments will be relegated to the trash heap or that they
will be
attacked, personally, and shy away from posting. I wish they
wouldn't. Some
of the list rules regarding the avoidance of personal attacks are in
place for
that very reason. I hope that more people will contribute to
the list and we
can get a broader view of what is going on in the wide world we live
in. More
information, from more people gives us better insight into what is
going on
behind the scenes and lets us see more clearly the conspiracy that
we are all
tracking down. SO, come on people post a word or two, get you
feet wet and
give it a try!
Teo100

To Teo100,
I subscribe to the list exactly for the education of what others post.
I do not post because I have two full time jobs and no time to research.
I have posted some of my personal memories to this list and got a "taste"
of yours, and others, thurst for truth and empathy.
snip--
"In addition I make pretty dogmatic pronouncements myself
which tend to cause others to think twice before posting comments that
I am
likely to take an opposite stance on (such as the UFO phenomenon, alien
abduction, mind control theories, and religious conspiracy)."
Jim
Don't give your self too much credit since nothing you could say would
ever prevent me from expressing any thought or idea that I believe in.
snip--
Some people fear
that their comments will be relegated to the trash heap or that they
will be
attacked, personally, and shy away from posting.
This was the first thing I noticed about this list. I Only had
to read 5 post to realize this. I've read a number of your post.
Expecially with Hawk, and anybody else who's ideas are not the same as
yours. You should run for public office. You have all the double
speak skills.
Jim
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are
sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and
minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests
to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] List Participation


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 10:13:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 "In addition I make pretty dogmatic pronouncements myself
 which tend to cause others to think twice before posting comments that I am
 likely to take an opposite stance on (such as the UFO phenomenon, alien
 abduction, mind control theories, and religious conspiracy)."
 Jim
 Don't give your self too much credit since nothing you could say would ever
 prevent me from expressing any thought or idea that I believe in.
  

Well, I'm glad to know that because it would never be my intention to do that.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] KGBing the USA


 -Caveat Lector-

Eric Stewart wrote:

 Grand  Juries: Back in the 60's the government used grand juries to some
 small degree. Today, every Federal case - 99.9% of all Federal cases -
 involves indictment by grand jury. That means no preliminary hearing, no
 confrontation, and no lawyer present on the behalf of the accused. The
 accused isn't there and doesn't see, hear or confront, or cross-examine
 his or her accusers. The grand jury system by its nature is secretive;
 it is considered a felony to reveal anything that occurred or what your
 testimony was.

 We have a kind of misplaced historical procedure. We inherited the grand
 jury from English Common Law, where they used it to go after the lords
 and persons who were otherwise above the law. In a sense it was needed
 and justified then. But in our country, it is used now as an instrument
 of terror. Everyone fears it. You have relatives testifying against one
 another. With no confidentiality privilege with respect to family
 members other than husbands and wives, you have parents called to
 testify against their children. Children are called to testify against
 their parents, and brother against sister, and so on. It lacks all due
 process. It is immoral. It is an instrument of oppression. It's another
 secret tool of an expanding executive branch.


The fact that the grand jury is being misused by prosecutors is not a
reason to get rid of it. What would happen instead? Instead you would
have the Prosecutor indict by information. The accused would not even
have the protection of the grand jury. He would have to go directly to
trial. The grand jury is supposed to be a protection. The problem is
that most people who serve on the grand jury do not understand their job
until after they have served. Also, judges have tried failed to enpanel
enough grand juries to cover the case load. In Fulton County (Atlanta)
the grand juries have over and over requested more juries be enpanelled
because of the high case load, but the judges have ignored them. I went
through all the presentments of the Fulton County grand juries from the
30s to about five years ago. Over and over they would complain of the
case load and that they were not able to do their jobs. But the judges
want them too busy. Keeps them from looking into how the county
government is run, etc. Why are you taking the prosecutors side in
wanting to get rid of grand juries? Where did you get the information
you are basing the above on?

Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] List Participation


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 2/2/99 10:13:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 This was the first thing I noticed about this list.  I Only had to read 5
post to
 realize this.  I've read a number of your post.  Expecially with Hawk, and
anybody
 else who's ideas are not the same as yours.  You should run for public
office.
 You have all the double speak skills.
 Jim 

Jim;
What is it that you are trying to imply?  Are you saying that I deliberately
run other off who disagree with me?  I would say hogwash, if you believe that.
I appreciate hearing from everyone, even if their opinions differ radically
from my own.  That is not to say that I will not vehemently defend my views.
It is never done with the intent of silencing the other person.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] ``The Nuremberg Files''


 -Caveat Lector-

Alamaine Ratliff wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Again, in the concept of "Free Speech" resides, implicitly,
 "responsibility".

Where did you get this? Responsibility? Who is to judge what is
responsible free speech? Please define that so we can judge whether or
not you fulfill your responsibility.

Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] State Govt Photos-Capture Your Soul?

1999-02-02 Thread Sno0wl


 -Caveat Lector-

On 2 Feb 99, , flw wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Maybe the Aborigine's belief that a photo is
 dangerous because it can capture
 the soul is more true then not.
 flw

 NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY

 Should state governments be allowed
 to sell your drivers license photo?
 
 WASHINGTON, DC -- The decision by three
 states to sell millions
 of drivers license photographs to a private
 company is a "picture
 perfect" example of why you can't trust
 politicians to protect your
 privacy, the Libertarian Party said today.
 
 "Without your permission, politicians in
 three states have
 decided to sell your most personal possession --
 your image," said
 Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "If
 we don't stop them
 now, what will they sell next?"

They're already selling our DNA. And patenting it, too! What's a photo when they could
actually clone you without your knowledge?


sno0wl

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] THE DARK SIDE OF THE GOOD NEWS

1999-02-02 Thread Sno0wl


 -Caveat Lector-

 Murray suggests that there may be a downside to the shift of
 single mothers from welfare to work.  No body of research exists
 to demonstrate that it is good for children when a single mother
 works, he points out.

 "Can the U.S. retain its political and social culture," Murray
 asks, "in the presence of a permanent underclass?"  His answer is
 yes, if it is "sufficiently small."  If it is large, he believes,
 the answer is no.

 He points out that underclass ethics -- among all races -- are
 deteriorating and contributing to a coarsening of American life.

 Source: Charles Murray (American Enterprise Institute), "And Now
 for the Bad News," Wall Street Journal, February 2, 1999.

Another "bad side" of the "good news" is that older women with disabilities are being
forced from welfare to work that  is essentially life-threatening for them. In a case
reported on NPR, a 55 year-old woman with a serious heart condition was forced to
take a job cleaning parks. When she went to legal aid to make a complaint about her
situation, the legal aid society discovered that Clinton had signed a bill forbidding  
legal
aid societies from defending the rights of welfare complainants who believe they are
being denied rights to which they are entitled.

Interesting. If benefits are denied you unfairly, you have no right to file a legal 
complaint!
Now it's work or die. This bill is currently being challenged in court by the legal aid
societies.

This may rankle some on this list, but as the 40-somethings are being dislodged from
their corporate niches in favor of the cheaper 20-somethings, even you may, one day,
come to appreciate the importance of these issues.


sno0wl

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Mass Poisoning? An UPDATE