Re: [CTRL] Waco Humor
-Caveat Lector- And he calls Koresh perverted? -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Waco Humor Date: Mon, Sep 6, 1999, 3:06 PM -Caveat Lector- Q: How many Branch Davidians does it take to change a lightbulb? A: None, BD's use natural lighting. Q: How many BDs can you fit in the back of a Volkswagon? A: All of them, right now. The ones who left are wimps, and don't count. Q: Whats the heat capacity of a BD?A: Not high enough, apparently. Bonus Question: Is a BD at constant volume, constant pressure, both, or neither? A: They are sensitive to pressure and too tightly wrapped. So, constant volume. The final volume change is considered chaotic, and not indicative of their normal state. I have considered it to be instantaneous. Hot off the timbers, a receipe for Davidian Flambe'Ingredients: 1 Davidian (preferably young) 1 gallon of lantern fluid (Coleman is the best, cleaner burning) 1 large wood frame house1 match100 Cubic Feet of CS gas 30 Knot Southern breeze100 Gallons of waterPrep: Marinate Davidian in CS for about 6 hours(add more CS as needed)Cooking: Remove Davidian from marinade and reserve liquid Pour 3 and 3/4 quarts of lantern fliud on frame of house Pour remainder on DavidianLight match and apply to house Allow to cook for 30 minutes. Or until well charred on outside meat should be blackened and falling of the bone. Put out flames with water Scoop 1 cup of water off charred section of floor Add CS marinade to water to make 2 cups of gravy Remove charred Davidian and cover with gravySalt and pepper to taste Serving suggestion:serve with a side of asparegus and Hollandaise Bon Appetit' Q: Why don't we have more prophets like David Koresh? A: It's such a high stress job that burnout is almost inevitable. Q: How can we avoid future tragedies like the Waco conflagration? A: Strict OSHA standards requring automatic sprinkler systems for all cult compounds that accomodate 50 or more fanatics. How do you pick up a Branch Dividian chick?With a dust buster. What is the new Branch Davidian holiday?Ash Monday. What do David KorASH and Jesus Christ have in common?They are both dead. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: WACO: Joyce Riley on Art Bell 9/2/99
-Caveat Lector- It seems to me that it is very possible that this charge is a form of disinformation. I don't know of any proof of this being asserted previous to this. The video of the fire starting at Waco showed a grardual build up of flames. I doubt if that would have happened if even one missle had been fired from a helicopter. Besides, why would they have to fire from a helicopter and make a big show? They could have started the fire with flash/bangs, as they probably did. How would such disinformation work? Get people hollering about something that is easily proven false, then claiming that you have answered your critics while ignoring the true charges. Howard Davis -- From: Sean McDougal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Fw: WACO: Joyce Riley on Art Bell 9/2/99 Date: Sat, Sep 4, 1999, 2:11 PM -Caveat Lector- Original Message Follows From: Jon Roland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Fw: WACO: Joyce Riley on Art Bell 9/2/99 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:26:01 -0500 (CDT) - Begin forwarded message -- To listen to the discussion of Waco by Joyce Riley on Art Bell, download the program. Click to listen: http://ww2.broadcast.com/artbell/abell/9909/ab0902.ram Pertinent parts begin at approximately 2 hours, six minutes (2:06) into the program. To fastforward to this point in the program, just move the clip position indicator with your mouse until the time indicator reads somewhere close to 2:06:00.0 Rough transcript beginning at above time (not proofread or spell-checked): ART BELL: All kinds of information breaking about Waco, just all kinds. I know you have new, as yet unheard by anybody information about Waco. What can you tell us? JOYCE RILEY: Well, let me preface this by saying the purpose for this person coming forward with the information was that he is a sick Gulf War veteran, and we had a long discussion about the secrets of the Gulf War illness and the cover-up involved there, and I said, "Just like Waco, there needs to be the exposure of the truth about Waco." And he said, "I know about Waco." And I said, "How do you know about Waco?" And he said, "I know more than I wish I knew. I was stationed at Fort Hood and we were the unit that provided the Apache attack helicopters." You can imagine how startled I was to hear that there were Apache attack helicopters, because an Apache is not even armed in the United States. It's never armed because it is nothing but a helicopter for war. It's -- ART: An Apache, actually, was probably the most efficient killing machine in the Gulf War, so efficient that the images were hidden from the American people. The Apache is an incredible war machine. People have no idea how devastating the fire power from that helicopter can be. JOYCE: Oh, it is. It looks like a preying mantis. It is the helicopter that has the wheels on it. And if you were to ever see one, it is just -- it's very formidable. And in talking with this Gulf War veteran, and part of the reason I'm saying this today is because of his -- for his protection, because Texas Rangers have become involved in this since I talked with you, Art, so I'm not at liberty to identify some of the things that I was going to say. But I did get a phone call from Dick DeGuerin today, which the attorney for the Branch Dividians, and I can assure you that this information that he gave coincides with what he already knew and speculated. But let me just say that this Gulf War veteran, after we talked about this, I said, "You know you have a responsibility to come forward, because if we want people to tell the truth about Gulf War illness, if we want the people to come out of the Pentagon and out of the corners in the back alleys and admit to what has gone on there, we're going to have to tell what we know." So he has come forward. He is a destitute, if you will, Gulf War veteran who has no purpose in doing this other than the world needs to know the truth, and it is time that we quit harboring these secrets under the name of military adventure or military action. What he told me is that while he was stationed at Fort Hood at the F227 Aviation Apache Attack Squadron, that they armed the Apache helicopters to go in to Waco. ART: They armed them. JOYCE: They armed them. Now understanding that if what we say is true here today, this is the most devastating information to come across, because this puts the liability and the accountability all the way up to the president, for arming a helicopter for a war situation within the United States, basically violating the Posse Commitatus Act. ART: Absolutely. JOYCE: So, when he described this operation, I asked him what they armed the helicopters with. ART: Good. And what did he say? JOYCE: He said they armed them -- there were 20 helicopters that took turns going back and forth between Ft.
Re: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] WACO- THE BIG QUESTION Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 7:04 PM -Caveat Lector- Koresh WAS a pedophile, no question about that, but WHY didn't he and the rest of his "Branch DavIdiots" comply with the fed's??? There is a big question about whether or not he was a pedophile. What makes you think that he did not comply with the Feds? Have you seen the videos of the initial encounter with the ATF when Koresh met them at the door? Of course not, they claim that all three or four cameras malfunctioned and there is no evidence of what initially happened. I am sure that if those tapes had shown the ATF to have been serving the "knock" warrant in a lawful manner the cameras would not have "malfunctioned". And, your use of the term "Branch DavIdiots" shows that you are severally are greatly lacking in compassion or understanding. Why barricade yourself inside a "compound" Perhaps to protect yourself against people who are shooting at you. One of the Davidians (unarmed) was working on the water storage tower at the time and was shot. Koresh tried to meet the charging AFT outside the front door and was shot as tried to duck behind the door. The Davidians knew that the ATF was coming. If they wanted a fight, why didn't they shoot while they were crossing the open ground? Why did Koresh go outside? Why was there an unarmed man on the water tower? They did not expect the ATF to attack them. They had to protect themselves as best they could. If any of us refused a lawful request and instead holed up in our homes (or compounds, if we're "landed" enough) we'd be run through too...big shock! If everything was so legit (not his offspring though) why not air these things in public??? In a court where reporters would be there, maybe even CourtTV! It is easy to see why they would not trust the Feds after being shot at, murdered, lied to, etc. In addition, they were subjected to a constant barrage of loud music such as Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots are Meant for Walking", etc. Also, there was some sort of strange sound broadcast over the loudspeakers which seemed to have been designed for some sort of mind control. Also, everytime the negotiators would make some progress the FBI would do something like crush their cars with tanks, etc. Have you read any of the books on Waco by Reaves and others who were there? It is obvious from even a cursory study that someone did not want them to come out alive. My understanding is that after the initial gas attack on April 19th that the Davidian put out white flags and asked that their telephone be hooked up so that they could communicate with the FBI negotiators, but this was ignored. As for the court with reporters and TV. Are you dreaming? No Federal judge would have allowed a TV into that court. And other more important things would have come up which would have made any reporting on the case practically disapear. The day that the remaining Davidian were sentenced was the day the OJ made his famous express way drive. I am sure that they could have found something else for a trial. 'Tis REALLY hard to give a about a pedophile who seems to have been breaking other laws too!!! And PRUDY, you're correct, the kids DIDN'T deserve their fate...blame their daddy and screwed up mommies though... Again, despite the fact that the county investigated this charge twice and did not find it to have merit, you assume that it is true (it isn't even a federal offense). And, of course, if the ATF had wanted Koresh they could have picked him up while he jogged or went to lunch in town. Blame their screwed up parents. No, blame those who did the killings and those, like you, who hide themselves from the truth and let evil persist. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Texas DPS Statement Tear Gas Evidence - Branch Davidian Siege
-Caveat Lector- I am glad they clarified this. I was beginning to think that they might have some honest Americans working at the Texas DPS. I should have known. Howard Davis -- From: Bard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Texas DPS Statement Tear Gas Evidence - Branch Davidian Siege Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 8:29 PM http://www.texasranger.org/FBI.htm Sorry! Overlooked including the URL in previous Post. Bard August 27, 1999 Statement regarding DPS Tear Gas Round Investigation. As the DPS said shortly after the fire at the Branch Davidian compound in 1993, the Ranger inquiry, which was requested by the U.S. Department of Justice, would be the most complicated in the organization's history. Nearly a third of the Texas Ranger Division, working with DPS crime lab personnel, DPS Special Crimes investigators and other DPS personnel, collected thousands of pieces of evidence at the scene. Though the fire occurred six years ago, the DPS undertook the renewed inquiry in June, at the direction of DPS Public Safety Commission Chairman James B. Francis Jr. in response to questions raised concerning some of the evidence. We think it is important to make this point: The DPS is not investigating the FBI or the U.S. Department of Justice. Once the Rangers have completed their inquiry, the results will be sent to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Waco, which has jurisdiction in this matter. In response to other frequently-asked questions: 1. The DPS must limit its public comments concerning this matter because of a pending civil suit since evidence collected by the DPS will be a factor in the trial. 2. The current DPS inquiry started in June. 3. The findings of the current inquiry, which is nearly complete, will be made available to the U.S. Attorney's Office. Any action taken after that point would be up to the Justice Department. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House blamed for secret unit at Waco
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Nope. I think Koresh and his lieutenants did the killing. I'm amazed that so many people choose to support this psychopath; amazed, but not really surprised. I suspect a coordinated disinfo campaign, possibly Chinese-sponsored, directed at all US gov't actions, a classic Leninist strategy to demoralize the US people. This runs in parallel with moves to discredit science, especially evolution, in an effort to destroy US science education and reduce productivity of US workers, China's only hope to gain an advantage in the world economy, now that their own economy is faltering. Is this a stretch? Not at all. The same people who're are Waco conspiratorialists are also anti-evolutionists. The propaganda campaigns are well-coordinated, eh? Think about it. One of my friends had never owned a gun before Waco. Afterwards he joined am militia, bought a bunch of guns and started handing out and selling (cheap) patriot vidoes (many dealing with Waco). Anti-evolutionist? I doubt it. He never mentioned his beliefs on that, though we lived in the same house for over a year. Anti-science? He has a Phd in Chemistry and worked on a post doc in quantum chemistry. Yes, you are making a stretch. But then I am sure it isn't the first time. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Drugs, Human misery
-Caveat Lector- If this story is true, it certainly is a good example of why drugs should be legal as they were before the turn of the century and when things such as this never happened. Howard Davis -- From: Bill Richer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Drugs, Human misery Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 8:31 PM -Caveat Lector- My sister's coworker has a sister in Texas who with her husband was planning a weekend trip across the Mexican border for a shopping spree. At the last minute their baby sitter canceled, so they had to bring along their two year old son with them. They had been across the border for about an hour when the baby got free and ran around the corner. The mother went chasing, but the boy had disappeared. The mother found a police officer who told her to go to the gate and wait. Not really understanding the instructions, she did as she was instructed. About 45 minutes later, a man approached the border carrying the boy. The mother ran to him, grateful that he had been found. When the man realized it was the boy's mother, he dropped the boy and ran himself. The police were waiting for him and got him. The boy, was dead, in less than 45 minutes he was missing, and cut open, ALL of his insides removed and his body cavity stuffed with COCAINE. The man was going to carry him across the border as if he were asleep. A two year old boy, dead, discarded as if he were a piece of trash for somebody's cocaine. If this story can get out and change one person's mind about what drugs mean to them, We are helping. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Banishment
-Caveat Lector- When I was doing research on the Holocaust I read about half of Hitler's Mein Kamph. I got a copy from the local library. Reading it was important to me in understanding clearly Hitler's motivations. In later discussing some of my findings with "deniers" I found, to my surprize, that they had never read the book. I believe that some of their assumptions would be put in great peril if they were to read the book. For instance, one claimed to me that Hitler invaded Poland in order to protect Germany from Soviet communism. Of course, reading Mein Kamph would have made a great shambles of this theory, since Hitler over and over writes about the need for Germany to expand eastwardly, etc. (To say nothing of the 1920 Battle of Warsaw and the 1939 Ribbentrop agreement). It seems to me that banning books is one of the crimes of Nazism and banning books is really a tribute to Hitler. Howard Davis BERLIN (Reuters) - German media giant Bertelsmann Friday pulled Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf from its BOL online book store after being accused in Germany of selling hate literature. BOL's German and Dutch services have never sold Hitler's autobiographical manifesto, written in prison several years before he led the Nazi party to power in 1933 and full of anti-Semitic tirades, because the book is banned there. But BOL said it would stop offering the book on its English and French services to prevent Germans buying it anyway. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Second ex-Roche exec to be jailed in US vitamins probe
-Caveat Lector- From: Ric Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's nothing in the Constitution about NOT bribing elected/ appointed officials or gov't employees, so the Founders must not have wanted to cut off such supplemental income, eh? Yup, bribery is constitutional. AND WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?!?!? While it is true that the Constitution that most people are familiar with does not include a provision for the punishment of politicians who take bribes. However, there is a great deal of evidence that the Constitution once contained such a provision, but that it was removed. I am referring to what has been called the "hidden 13th amendment which many believe was passed in 1819 and removed after the Civil War. I personally know someone who has seen an official copy of the state constitution of Conneticut which also contained the US Constituion from the 1850s and it contained this "hidden 13th". He also had a history book from 1856 which contained the US Constitution including the "hidden 13th" which had been in his wife's family. The "hidden 13th" disallowed the acceptance of bribes and titles of nobility (such as esquire). It provided the penalty of loss of office and citizenship. Here it is: "If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them." If you ask a federal official what happened to the amendment you will be told that it was almost passed by an adequate number of states, but failed by not being passed by Virginia which was the last to consider it. However, Virginia is known to have ordered the printing of a large number of copies of the Constitution right after the amendment was to be considered and those copies contain the "hidden 13th". So it seems likely that they did, in fact, pass the amendment. Also, many other states' printing of the Constitution also contained the "hidden 13th". This continued in a few states even after the Civil War. Incidently, the state records of Virginia were burned during the Civil War. If Virginia had passed the amendment as may be supposed, it seems quite possible that their notice of passsage could have been "lost" at the federal level. For more info: http://www.frii.com/~gosplow/13th.html Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still say Koresh and his Branch DavIDIOTS deserved their fate...eh, it's not like we lost the cure for cancer, just some fringe scumbags... Why? And how do you know that we did not lose the cure for cancer? There were over a dozen children killed in that fire. Why could not one of them have been the one to discover such a cure? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] All public Officeholders should be drug tested!
-Caveat Lector- A few years ago the Georgia legislature in a fit of self righteousness voted in a law requiring all candidates for state office to be tested for drugs. A friend of mine, Walker Chandler, was running for Lt. Governor at the time and objected to the law. He took the test, but filed a law suit (he's a lawyer) in Federal Court. It took several years, but he eventually won at the Supreme Court. I think the vote was almost unanimous. So, I don't think that your suggestion would pass Constitutional muster. Howard Davis -- From: Bard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] All public Officeholders should be drug tested! Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999, 2:56 PM -Caveat Lector- Also, all candidates for public office should undergo a drug test at the time they file to run for office. The test should be administered by the federal thugs in the bureauacy of the War on Drugs; a supplemental budget appropiation should be passed by the House to provide the funds for the test. All present thugs in the federal government should submit to a drug test before the primary season commences. The remains of our Founding Fathers should be examined for trace elements of cocaine, etc. This testing should include all members of the Border Patrol, as well as all members of the military burearucy. lol Bard Visit me at: The Center for Exposing Corruption in the Federal Government http://www.xld.com/public/center/center.htm Federal Government defined: a benefit/subsidy protection racket! DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Congress: America's Criminal Class - Part IV
-Caveat Lector- It is interesting to see how we often forget the original purpose of a provision of the Constitution and begin to think it is supperfolous. Fortunately, it would take an amendment to the Constitution to change this, but it has a more important purpose than to get drunk Congressmen off. I had a friend who was a political activist in Miami back in the 60s. He was constantly arrested on frivilous charges. Imagine what might happen in Washington to an honest Congressman in Washington these days if it weren't for this provision in the Constitution. Howard Davis -- From: K [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Congress: America's Criminal Class - Part IV Date: Thu, Aug 19, 1999, 9:24 PM -Caveat Lector- http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Aug1999/081999/criminalclass4- 081999.htm Congress: America's Criminal Class - Part IV Sen. Robert Byrd: Invoking an ancient rule to avoid a modern law Part I -- Rep. Corrine Brown: A trail of lies deceit Part II -- Rep. Jim Moran: Virginia's bombastic Congressman Part III -- How Newt Gingrich took care of his own By the staff of Capitol Hill Blue In early May, Senator Robert C. Byrd, a longtime and powerful Democrat from West Virginia, was following a van too closely on U.S. Route 50 in Fairfax, Virginia, when the van stopped for traffic. Byrd's 1999 Cadillac slammed into the rear of the van. It took a tow truck more than an hour to pry the vehicles apart. Byrd's car was not drivable and suffered an estimated $7,000 in damage. The driver of the 1990 Ford Econoline van, Chris Lee, 42, a house painter from Fairfax, said he didn't hear any sounds indicating that Byrd hit the brakes or swerved. "Just boom," Lee said. The Fairfax County police officer who investigated the accident had started to write the 81-year-old Senator a traffic ticket when Bryd pulled a copy of the U.S. Constitution out of his pocket and pointed to a section that he said the cop prevented the cop for ticketing him for anything because he, as a member of Congress "shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest" both while attending a session and traveling to or from the Capitol. Byrd spokeswoman Ann Adler says the Senator, an acknowledged Constitutional scholar, "almost always has one (the Constitution) in his pocket." Byrd was taken to the nearby Fair Oaks police station where the shift commander put in a quick call to Fairfax Commonwealth's Attorney Robert F. Horan. Horan told the cop that if the Senator wanted to claim Congressional immunity for the ticket, the cops would have to honor it. With everything else that had happened in Washington in recent months, a traffic accident probably couldn't be classified as "treason, felony or breach of the peace." Horan said he was familiar with the immunity clause -- Article 1, Section 6, of the Constitution -- because he had encountered it once before during his 32 years in office. Another member of Congress, also from West Virginia, invoked the clause to escape a speeding ticket 20 years earlier. The constitutional provision was written in 1781 to protect members of Congress from harassment as they traveled across the country (usually by horseback), and to discourage people from trying to prevent the members from casting unpopular votes. Constitutional scholars say that while the law has little use in modern times, it is often used by Washington area police as a way to avoid arresting members of Congress. "It's a common misconception that it (the law) prevents ticketing," says Georgetown University professor Paul Rothstein. "Police departments in this area are frequently under that misapprehension. I think it's a way to do a favor for people of influence and stature, but it does smack of unequal treatment under the law." And such unequal treatment is often invoked. A study of public records with police departments in the District of Columbia, Maryland and Virginia show 217 members of the House and Senate escaped ticketing and arrest last year for a variety of traffic offenses ranging from speeding to driving while intoxicated. In the 1998 Congressional session, 84 Representatives and Senators were stopped for drunken driving and released after they claimed Congressional immunity. "I've stopped Senators who were so drunk they couldn't remember their own name," says one Fairfax County police officer. "And I was ordered to let them drive home." During late-night Congressional sessions, Representatives and Senators often spend time between votes in the private Republican and Democratic clubs or any of a dozen other Capitol Hill watering holes. One Capitol Hill police officer says he has had to jump out of the way more than once to avoid being run down by a drunken member of Congress roaring out of a House office garage. "But there's not a damn thing I can do about it," he says, "Not if I want to keep
Re: [CTRL] The Protocols
-Caveat Lector- -- From: Ric Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Protocols Date: Sat, Aug 14, 1999, 1:47 AM -Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Howard R. Davis III [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Ric Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Howard R. Davis III [EMAIL PROTECTED] My understanding is that the "Protocols" were based upon a book by a frenchman named Joley called "Dialogues in Hell between Monteqestue and Michaelvelli. I remember that it was published in Belgium around 1870s(?) and was an attack against then current French government. He was later supposedly kidnapped back to France and spent some time in jail. Maybe dying there. (The Russian secret police forged the later "Protocals" in an effort to boost one of their own). I think I read this in the "Spear of Destiny" by Ravencroft. It all boils down to: Which conspiracy would one rather attribute the Protocols to? Is there a vast Judaic plot that's accurately reflected by the Protocols? Or is the more prosaic Imperial Russian Secret Police responsible? Is the existence of the French/Belgian document sufficient evidence to destroy the Jewish-plot theory, or was it planted by the Illuminati to distract truth-seekers? Is ANY evidence of alleged plotters credible, or could it ALL be manufactured? Is 'evidence' relevant, or will one believe whatever the hell one desires? ... My info on the origin, as stated above, is not certain by any means. I haven't held the supposed original book in my hands and even if I had, it wouldn't have done me much good since I don't read French. However, Ravenscroft seemed to be fairly believable and his story made sense. If it were true, then it would indicate a creation earlier than the Jewish conference which was held in the 1890s. That would tend to indicate that its creation was independent of any Jewish involvement. My point is, if one assumes that a sufficiently powerful conspiracy exists, then intellectual honesty demands that ALL evidence either supporting or refuting the existence of said conspiracy, is suspect. If one believes that Illuminati / Bilderbergers / Zionists exert vast control over finance, politics, communications, then they also control the information upon which we base our conclusions about their existence - all that information COULD have been tampered with, it's not admissible as evidence, toss it out. For instance, try this scenario: operatives of The Conspiracy have followed an agenda crafted untold centuries ago. In the 1870s they had the Monteqestue document published; in the 1890's they staged the purported Zionist conference and published the Protocols, based on the Monteqestue document; neither document reflects accurately ANY of The Conspiracy's actual agenda, but they give outsiders some- thing on which to waste their time, efforts, resources. All disinfo. All manufactured. All just grist for the mills. If The Conspiracy controls information, it controls what anyone thinks they know. I don't buy it. I prefer parsimonious explanations. The Protocols are a forgery. Grand Conspiracies are too complex, too baroque, to be valid explanations of observed phenomena. You present an all encompassing conspiracy as the controller of all media and then treat this straw man as unbelievable and thus assert all conspiracy theories as too complex. This strawman conspiracy theory may be too complex, but that does not prove that others are not true. Also, the Joley book never apparently claimed to be a description of any plan known to Joley, just a theoratical construct. It may have been constructed from observations of actions of elites of the time or a projection similar to that of "1984" or "Brave New World". That Joley was said to later have been imprisoned would seem to indicate that he was not working for the "conspiracy". However, that his book might be used by some uncreative Russian secret police operative seems like a reasonable theory. It would surprize me that they would have been able to come up with a creative and complex document such as the Protocals on their own. Or at least it should be admitted that they would probably have used something as a model. One of the problems of these types is that they really are not that creative. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credee
Re: [CTRL] Prosecutors arrest convicted murderer for making false claims of AIDS cure
-Caveat Lector- -- From: "Hilary A. Thomas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Prosecutors arrest convicted murderer for making false claims of AIDS cure Date: Sat, Aug 14, 1999, 1:30 PM -Caveat Lector- Did he or didn't he find a cure? Burying technologies and advancements in health care are common practice in our society. Hilary Yes, it is interesting that the basis for calling the claims false is not defended. Being involved with inventions, I have seen evidence that your second sentence may be true. Howard Davis Prosecutors arrest convicted murderer for making false claims of AIDS cure Copyright © 1999 Nando Media Copyright © 1999 Associated Press http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/0,1080,81804-129302-904500-0,0 0.html By LARRY NEUMEISTER NEW YORK (August 13, 1999 11:03 p.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - A convicted murderer who heads a Nevada company has been arrested on securities fraud charges after his company made several recent announcements claiming to have developed a cure for AIDS, prosecutors said Friday. Alfred Flores, 49, president of New Technologies Concepts Inc. in Las Vegas, was arrested Thursday. The false claims sent the price of stock in New Technologies' parent company, Uniprime Capital Acceptance Inc., to soar from $1 a share to nearly $8 a share, prosecutors said. The complaint, filed under seal Monday and unsealed Thursday, alleged that New Technologies issued three news releases on Uniprime's Web site describing "Plasma Plus." On June 16, the company said Flores had "conducted tests on patients in Madrid which have shown complete reversal from the immune system of the HIV infection, with no reintroduction of the virus after a period of almost 18 months." A July 19 news release said "Plasma Plus" had proven 100 percent successful in eliminating the presence of HIV in patients, the complaint said. There was no answer Friday at a telephone listed in Flores' name. There was no phone listing for his company. A telephone message left at the parent company, Uniprime Capital Acceptance, was not immediately returned. If convicted, Flores could face a maximum of 10 years in prison and a fine of $1 million. He was in prison in Colorado from 1983 to September 1992 after a murder conviction, prosecutors said. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] John Trochmann and the Militia of Montana (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Citation: Esquire July 1995, v124, n1, p46(5) Author: Voll, Daniel Title: At home with M.O.M.(Militia of Montana paramilitary group) by Daniel Voll COPYRIGHT Hearst Corporation 1995 BABY KILLER] BABY KILLER]" snip Bob Fletcher, Trochmann's minister of information, enters the room, hunched and wearing suspenders over a white shirt, a .380 tucked into his flesh-colored belly holster. A former gumshoe for the Noriega defense, he is the latest addition to the Trochmann gang, originally signing on eight months ago as a conspiracy investigator. Bob Fletcher owned a business here in Atlanta which made a toy puppet which looked something like a "muppet". He was fairly successful, but needed capital. He thought he was lucky to be approached by a company which wanted to invest in his business. However, it turned out to be an Oliver North front which used his business for gun running. He first testified before Congress about this during the Iran-Contra hearings. He ended up losing his business. Notice that the author of the above article doesn't characterize Fletcher as a former toy manufacturer. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Protocols
-Caveat Lector- -- From: Ric Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Protocols Date: Fri, Aug 13, 1999, 7:01 PM -Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Howard R. Davis III [EMAIL PROTECTED] My understanding is that the "Protocols" were based upon a book by a frenchman named Joley called "Dialogues in Hell between Monteqestue and Michaelvelli. I remember that it was published in Belgium around 1870s(?) and was an attack against then current French government. He was later supposedly kidnapped back to France and spent some time in jail. Maybe dying there. (The Russian secret police forged the later "Protocals" in an effort to boost one of their own). I think I read this in the "Spear of Destiny" by Ravencroft. It all boils down to: Which conspiracy would one rather attribute the Protocols to? Is there a vast Judaic plot that's accurately reflected by the Protocols? Or is the more prosaic Imperial Russian Secret Police responsible? Is the existence of the French/Belgian document sufficient evidence to destroy the Jewish-plot theory, or was it planted by the Illuminati to distract truth-seekers? Is ANY evidence of alleged plotters credible, or could it ALL be manufactured? Is 'evidence' relevant, or will one believe whatever the hell one desires? Simply randomly choosing to believe one thing over another and to think that this is a rational way of choosing one's beliefs is not the manner I personally wish to operate. I prefer to weigh the evidence as best I can and deduce some reasonable model of reality in which I operate. Of course, I realize that I have made in the past inaccurate choices and do not have a fully accurate model of reality. However, I believe that my present model is more accurate than my past models and hope to continue to improve in just the same way as humanity in general has made some improvements. We no longer believe, for example, that the earth is flat. As for the "Protocols" specifically. My info on the origin, as stated above, is not certain by any means. I haven't held the supposed original book in my hands and even if I had, it wouldn't have done me much good since I don't read French. However, Ravenscroft seemed to be fairly believable and his story made sense. If it were true, then it would indicate a creation earlier than the Jewish conference which was held in the 1890s. That would tend to indicate that its creation was independent of any Jewish involvement. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Aryan Nations in Canada (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip -- Forwarded message - Citation: Maclean's May 8 1995, v108, n19, p39(1) Author: Wood, Chris Title: 'Aryan of the year:' a white supremacist campaigns in British Columbia.(Charles Scott)(Cover Story) by Chris Wood COPYRIGHT Maclean Hunter (Canada) 1995 And Scott is a major player in Aryan Nations: at its congress in July he is to be proclaimed "Aryan of the Year." One man who has Scott's admiration is Militia of Montana leader John Trochmann, who claims that a proposed international park straddling the border between British Columbia and Washington state is a cover for a UN effort to control the world. "It's being used for a number of different things," says Trochmann. "The transfer of foreign troops and equipment is definitely one of them. Electromagnetic weather control is definitely another one of them." Says Scott of Trochmann: "I think he's a great guy. I have a lot of respect for him." This is an interesting juxtaposition. It does not state that John Trochmann supports Charles Scott, but implies this. It seems to me that the reporter is attempting to link the two in an attempt make John Trochmann out to be a racist. I don't know if he is or not. However, I am aware of at least one other report on Trochmann which mentioned his "Hitler mug" that he used. The implication, of course, being that this was an indication of his support for Hitler. What the reporter failed to mention was that the mug had a picture of Hitler with his arm raised and written below was: "All in favor of gun control raise your hands". Also, not mentioned was that the group that created this mug (and it is clearly stated on the mug) is the group known as: "Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership" (http://www.jpfo.org/). Do you really think that the reporter failed to examine this mug carefully or do you think that this was purposeful misdirection? Do you think that the above may be another example? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] moral decay (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] moral decay (fwd) Date: Thu, Aug 12, 1999, 4:43 PM -Caveat Lector- -- Forwarded message -- Citation: USA Today (Magazine) Nov 1996, v125, n2618, p64(2) Author: Hyatt, Ralph Title: America is being plagued by an invasion of "crazies." (militias and moral decay in the U.S.) by Ralph Hyatt Read the following paragraph carefully. The writer is a master at propaganda. Notice how he mixes all groups together and seems to imply that all "patriot" organizations are militias and that they all are implicated in raising funds through "a series of robberies beginning in 1992". This may at first appear to be simply poor writing. However, I believe that it really very well written if one takes into consideration what the author is attempting to do. Incidently, are the members of this list also to be lumped in with the "Vipers"? A nonprofit group--The Southern Poverty Law Center, which studies militias closely--has identified 800 anti-government "patriot" organizations. Their diverse membership stems from all walks of life--tax protesters, neo-Nazis, radical anti-environmentalists, elk ranchers, real estate brokers, advocates of a more equitable distribution of power and wealth, and a host of others. A series of robberies beginning in 1992 causes of all kinds, and donations from a variety of other admiring sources help fill their coffers. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Japan Tested A-Bomb in WWII (fwd)
-Caveat Lector-
This was actually reported just after the war in one of the Atlanta papers.
Howard Davis
--
From: MICHAEL SPITZER [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Japan Tested A-Bomb in WWII (fwd)
Date: Tue, Aug 10, 1999, 12:13 AM
-Caveat Lector-
This is from North Korea's Korean Central News Agency of the DPRK
(Democratic People's Republic of Korea).
Found at: http://www.kcna.co.jp/contents/08.htm#4
snip
Old Japanese army tests A-bomb in sea off Korea
Pyongyang, August 8 (KCNA) -- The Japanese Tokyo Shimbun
August 6 disclosed that the old Japanese army tested an A-bomb in
the sea off Hungnam on the east coast of Korea just before the
end of World War II.
According to a secret document of the U.S. Army quoting the
Jiji news from the U.S. National Archives, the U.S. Army was
informed of the fact that a test related to the atomic power took
place at a chemical factory in Hungnam in 1945 and ordered
investigation into it. It also said in an investigation report
worked out on January 16, 1947, that the Japanese army made an
explosion test with the help of a boat in waters off the east
coast of the North Korea, the result of which was like an A-bomb.
The U.S. forces received information from an intelligence
officer of the old Japanese army that it tested an A-bomb in
waters 30 km away from Hungnam at the dawn of August 12, 1945,
and huge mushroom-like clouds rose at that time.
Tokyo Shimbun said that Japan began an A-bomb research in
secrecy on the order of the army headquarters from about 1940.
snip
=
Kaddish, Kaddish, Kaddish, YHVH, TZEVAOT
FROM THE DESK OF:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Mike Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
Shalom, A Salaam Aleikum, and to all, A Good Day.
=
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Adios Fourth Amendment
-Caveat Lector- Hey, could someone let me know if the attached article is for real or a put-on? It is hard to tell. Howard Davis -- From: Das GOAT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: Adios Fourth Amendment Date: Wed, Aug 4, 1999, 4:38 AM SPRINGFIELD, IL--With the state legislature's passage of a bill last week allowing police officers to cite Led Zeppelin bumper stickers as probable cause for a vehicular search for drugs, Illinois became the 13th state to recognize rock-and-roll-related decorations as sufficient legal grounds for bypassing the need for a search warrant. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Why some of us fear Clinton?
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill Clinton sold out to the evil national security state years ago I don't understand why the far right keeps ranting on about Clinton. Why don't you understand why the "far right" is opposed to Clinton? Are you in favor of "the evil nataional security state"? If not, why are you surprized that others might be fearful of a president who has "sold out" to it? He might have been a "liberal" (however you want to define the term) years ago, but it's pretty obvious he has done nothing to challenge the corporate control of the American political apparatus. The post to which you have made the above answer does not, in fact, accuse Clinton of being a "liberal". It accuses him of being a Marxist or a Communist. Its only mention of "liberals" was in questioning their support of him. Further, if (as has been suggested by many on this list) communism was created by the elite as a method of control, then why would they want him to "challenge the corporate control of the American political apparatus". That would get him killed like at least one Kennedy, if not more. The fact that he makes overtures to groups that the Republican party has demonized during the past thirty years is just a matter of vote-getting. On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Nicky Molloy wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_nyquist/19990722_xcjny_why_some_u.shtml Why some of us fear Clinton? By JR Nyquist © 1999 WorldNetDaily.com The Bible teaches us to love our enemies and to hate no one. This is a very noble way to live, though few of us attain such grace. Perhaps the reason so few of us can love our enemies has to do with the link between hate and fear. If someone makes us afraid, we eventually come to hate that person. And, however brave some of us are, fear sometimes gets the better of us. It has sometimes been remarked that the so-called "far right" is irrational in its hatred of Bill Clinton. Many liberal media types think the impeachment of President Clinton was a mean-spirited, hate-inspired attack on a poor sick guy who suffers from a sexual addiction. Some leftists are especially baffled, because they don't see anything special about Clinton that is particularly threatening or dangerous. Well, it is time someone explained the right's fear of Bill Clinton. For if any of us hate Bill Clinton -- and certainly we shouldn't hate anyone, as the Bible says -- it is fear, at bottom, that inspires us. This is not a proud acknowledgement, but an honest one. Some of us really do fear Clinton. We experience his term in office as a dangerous time, as a time in which American institutions are exposed to corruption and degradation. It is a time when freedom is imperiled at home and national security is weakened abroad. I can hear my friends on the left chuckling at all this. Such nonsense, they say to themselves. Such right wing paranoia. But wait. Stop. Let me explain, by way of comparison, where the so-called "extreme right" is coming from. What if you were Jewish. Imagine how you would feel if America elected a president who, as a college student, had worked for a Nazi front organization, then made a trip to Hitler's Berlin (about which he is not very forthcoming). Imagine, also, that he married someone with ties to numerous anti-Semitic organizations, someone who idolizes Mussolini and Franco. How would you feel? I first heard of Bill Clinton 16 years ago. Here is how it happened. I was getting a teaching credential, and one of my classes was on adolescent psychology. The professor in this course, who was a very admirable teacher, seemed to favor me. One day, after class, she invited me to a 7 p.m. meeting at the Science Lecture Hall. At the time I didn't know she was a Marxist, and I didn't know the meeting would be political. She said that if I cared about education in the state of California I would attend. Having the night off from work I decided on going, partly owing to curiosity. Well, I couldn't have been more surprised if it had been a coven of witches. Arriving early at the Science Lecture Hall, I found communist literature -- books and pamphlets -- stacked on tables in the lobby. A visiting professor was the speaker. He gave a rousing talk on overthrowing the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" in America. How would this be accomplished? By taking over the Democratic Party through its left wing. The speaker said it was possible to elect a stealth socialist president, who would effect a peaceful transition to socialism during the next great economic down-turn. Capitalism would be unmasked as a bankrupt system. The people would then support a new socialist system. All businesses would be nationalized by the government and run like the Post Office. This socialist president, said the
Re: [CTRL] Chief Justice Celebrates Days of Slavery
-Caveat Lector- Interestingly, Dixie was probably written by a black man. It was also said to have been one of Lincoln's favorite songs and one that he had played after the war ended. Howard Davis -- From: Das GOAT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Chief Justice Celebrates Days of Slavery Date: Fri, Jul 23, 1999, 5:10 AM -Caveat Lector- Chief Justice Offends Some Lawyers WASHINGTON (AP) - Chief Justice William Rehnquist led a sing-along of ``Dixie'' at a recent conference in Virginia, upsetting lawyers who view the song as a nostalgic appeal to the days of slavery. Some black lawyers said they avoided last month's 4th Circuit Judicial Conference because of their distaste for ``Dixie,'' which was included in a song book distributed for the event and has been sung before. The songs are mostly American standards, including ``America the Beautiful'' and ``Anchors Aweigh.'' The evening typically ends with ``The Battle Hymn of the Republic'' and ``Dixie,'' a Confederate marching song. ``Dixie'' is offensive to blacks, said Brent O.E. Clinkscale, a black attorney. ``I think it's nostalgic for slavery,'' he said. Rehnquist, 74, declined to comment on the controversy. Defenders of ``Dixie'' say the song is a piece of Americana that is appropriate for a mostly Southern conference. The 4th Circuit event is for lawyers and judges from Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [10] The Ohio Gang
-Caveat Lector- -- From: Kris Millegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] An excerpt from: The Ohio Gang With Doheny, Fall worked out a deal whereby Doheny's Pan American Petroleum and Transport Company would build storage tanks at Pearl Harbor, in Hawaii, and would be paid for the job with a grant of drilling rights at Reserve Number 1 in Elks Hill, California. The ironic thing about this whole Tea Pot Dome scandal was that it turned out in the end to be crucial to the US defense. After the war ended the captured Japanese planners of the Pearl Harbor attack were shown pictures of the above mentioned storage tanks. They were asked if they knew what they were. Of course they replied. Why then, they were asked, did you not bomb them? The Japanese replied that they did not think that oil would be critical to the US navy as it was to the Japanese navy and so they had chosen to attack the ships instead. Then they were told that if they had destroyed those tanks that it would have stopped the whole US Navy for several months and that the US would then have had a tremendous problem stopping the Japanese offensive. Those storage tanks were crucial to our early successes in the Pacific. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A REAL conspiracy-For-profit health insurance.
-Caveat Lector- -- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Babies die, mothers arrested U.S. health care and 'criminal negligence' By Deirdre Griswold New York The corporate media here say repeatedly that socialism has "failed" and that Cuba is repressive. But Tabitha Walrond and Tatiana Cheeks lost their babies and their freedom in New York, not Havana. It's the profit system that has failed by creating a glittering high-tech world that is completely out of reach for an ever-growing part of the population. The US also has a socialist medical system. It has just failed in different ways than the Cuban system. Neither is free market. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Robin Hood Outed
-Caveat Lector- -- From: Das GOAT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Robin Hood "Outed" Date: Mon, Jul 12, 1999, 4:33 PM -Caveat Lector- And so, I suppose, was young King Arthur, Merlin's -uh- protege ? Robin Hood was gay, preferred ``merrie men'' - study By Paul Majendie LONDON, July 11 (Reuters) - England's legendary outlaw Robin Hood was gay, preferring his ``merrie men'' to Maid Marian, a leading English literature professor said on Sunday. Is the English prof gay? Doesn't say. Homosexuals are always figuring out some historical figure was gay. The Polish composer Chopin has been claimed to be gay, even though he lived with a woman for many years. Why? Well, his music sounds "gay" or something to that effect. Nicola Tesla has also been claimed by some to be gay, though a gay scientist who knew him is known to have said that he was not. Many men and women who were creative did not marry because they were not attracted to the opposite sex, but rather because the circumstances of their lives prevented them from taking on the responsabilities of marriage. Homosexuals, many of whom seemingly cannot understand the choice of some to forgo sexual pleasures, interpret this as proving that they were homosexuals. Robin Hood was apparently a man who fought along with others a guarilla war against a tyranical government. Whether or not he and his compatriots were homosexual is a ridiculous question which is totally unprovable almost a thousand years later. The fact that some English prof has attempted to draw such a conclussion from such scanty evidence as might be available only shows that he has some agenda to which he has more loyalty than to Truth. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies? [Posse Comitatus Act]
-Caveat Lector- From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the reasons why federal law enforcement is becoming "militarized" is in response to the increased number of hate crimes in the country. Whenever you have individuals who are interested in using violence against their fellow citizens because they don't happen to like their sexual preferences, (the Branch Divideans were accused of child molestation) their skin color, (the Branch Divideans were almost 50% black) their religion, (unless you call it a cult, then it seems to be alright to kill everyone in sight) then you have a situation that calls for some kind of government response. Domestic terrorism is on the increase. I'm glad that the government is monitoring the activities of the Klan, Nazis and the like. On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, Bard wrote: -Caveat Lector- "Can Soldiers Be Peace Officers? The Waco Disaster and The Militarization of American Law Enforcement" by David B. Kopel and Paul M. Blackman One of the most significant trends of federal law enforcement in the last fifteen years has been its militarization. The logical, perhaps inevitable, consequence of that militarization was seen in the disaster at Waco, Texas, resulting in the deaths of four federal agents, and seventy-six other men, women, and children. In this article, we use the Waco tragedy as a starting point to examine the militarization of federal law enforcement, and similar trends at the state and local level. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] [Fwd: Humorous Historical Fact]
-Caveat Lector- On July 8, 1947, witnesses claim a spaceship with 5 aliens crashed on a sheep and cattle ranch outside of Roswell, an incident they say was covered up by the government. = On March 31, 1948, 9 months to that day, Al Gore was born. = DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New Age of Satan and the Antichrist
-Caveat Lector- -- From: Kris Millegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: New Age of Satan and the Antichrist From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kansan1225) Nobody disputes that Thomas Jefferson and John Adams both died on the Jubilee (50th anniversary) of the Fourth of July (7/4/1826). My interpretation is that their deaths were ritual sacrifices. This interpretation is re-inforced by the fact that the next President of New Atlantis to die also died on the Fourth of July: James Monroe died on 7/4/1831. And consider 1831: 1 + 8 + 3 + 1 = 13, the most Masonically correct mystery number. Another interpretation of why all these men died on July 4 is that that particular day was the most important in their lives. Though ill and dying, they used their strong will to live to enable them to celebrate one last time that most important date to them and to humanity. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] CHRISTIAN COALITION LOSES TAX EXEMPT STATUS
-Caveat Lector- -- From: Robert Tatman The Internal Revenue Service has reportedly ruled that the Christian Coalition is so thoroughly partisan that it does not deserve tax-exempt status, a development welcomed by People For the American Way Foundation President Carole Shields, who called the ruling "long overdue but worth the wait." Any one know if the People For the American Way Foundation is tax exempt? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Christian Identity undergoes a revival inarea,experts say
-Caveat Lector- Mr. Lee: If one makes an assertion of a historical fact and is challanged by another to show the basis of that assertion the providing of a long list of books to research, it should surprize no one that the person questioning the truth of that assertion remains unconvinced. Whether or not you are correct certainly interests me. However, I would hope that if, in fact, you have any truth to contribute to this forum, that you will provide more basis to your assertions than lists of books. As one who has, in fact, tried to verify through my own research some of the claims of those who rever Hitler, I feel that I have, in fact, done sufficient research to understand where you are coming from. I spent several months studying the claims of those who deny that the Nazis used gas chambers to kill masses of Jewish (and other) people. I studied especially the claims of David Irving and the Lectner report. In doing so, my understanding of the Hitler phenomana was greatly deepened. Exposure to the arguements of various "deniers" eventually convinced me that this whole thing was not a question of rationality, but of spirituality. Though previously I had little belief in demon possession, I eventually came to the realization that those who have embraced these beliefs have done so for reasons beyond any explanable by the use of logic. Exposure to the rituals of the SS and the occult basis of the Hitlerian philosophy has convinced me that those who have come under his sway are possessed by some sort of evil which I had not before understood to be possible. I pity them and you. Howard Davis -- From: John Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Christian Identity undergoes a revival inarea,experts say Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999, 4:43 AM -Caveat Lector- Dear Mr. Davis, Like I said, I'll not do your research for you. Read Mullins on the Federal Reserve; Red Fog Over America by Carr; Iron Curtain Over America by Beaty; Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Mullins; On The Horns of the Beast by Still; Pawns In The game by Carr; The Empire Of The City by Knuth; You Gentiles by Samuel, for starters. The German Central Bank before Hitler was a private bank as is our own Fed Res Bank. Hitler changed that. I'm not sure how Hitler traded with other countries. It may have been barter or it may have been gold and silver or other precious metals or stones. It is not necessary to be on a gold standard to use gold as a medium of exchange. Any "standard" merely guarantees there is enough of something that has a set value everyone agrees to that sets the value of exchange between nations or other entities. It could be salt, for that matter, or any other commodity suitable to all involved, thus a guaranteed standard of exchange exists. Hitler's, Lincoln's and Kennedy's treasury bills drew no interest for Bankers and, in my opinion, got these three killed. Also, bankers were not able to use the fractional reserve to increase their profits by margin of 10. Now then, I do not know everything about the area of history of which we speak. I do, however, know enough to believe Hitler was not what he is being propagandized as today. Agree or not, it doesn't matter to me. John Lee - Original Message ----- From: Howard R. Davis III [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Christian Identity undergoes a revival inarea,experts say -Caveat Lector- John Lee wrote: Mr. Davis, The difference between Hitler's "money" and Roosevelt's "money" is considerable. German currency was state owned and issued, based upon the assets and production of the nation, whereas Roosevelt's was from the Federal Reserve, a privately owned national bank, as it still is today. All money used in America and the world today is borrowed from some private bank. I am quite familiar with your basic thesis concerning the operation of central banks. However, you state the the German currency was state owned and issued and apparently not borrowed as is normal policy in the central bank system. This would as you suggested be similar to Lincoln's policy of issueing "greenbacks" which were neither borrowed or backed by specie. And, it would also be similar to what JFK did when he issued several hundred million dollars in Treasury notes not long before he was killed. However, I have never heard this assertion made previously and would like to know where you got this information and whether or not it is true. The Federal Reserve bank of the US was paterned after that of Germany's and one of the Warburg brothers ran it while the other pushed for the adoption of the system in the US. So, apparently they did have that system previous to Hitler's coming to power in 1933. If Hitler did end the central reserve banking system in Germany
[CTRL] INTERVIEW WITH WEI JINGSHENG12/10/97
-Caveat Lector- this is a transcript of a Voice of America radio interview that the US govt tried to stop INTERVIEW WITH WEI JINGSHENG12/10/97 Q: Mr. Wei Jingsheng, thank you very much for accepting an interview with VOA today. We hope that through this interview, the millions of VOA listeners across China will have an opportunity to understand what kind of person Mr. Wei Jingsheng is and why he persisted in holding his beliefs. I would like to first ask that, 18 years ago, you were merely an anonymous electrician in the Beijing Zoo and spent your spare time writing articles calling for democracy and human rights and now, 18 years later after you were released from the prison, your name is printed in all the major newspapers in various languages in the world, your image is on all kinds of TV shows, leaders of China and the United States, two of the big countries in the world, talked about and negotiated your fate. Having been through all this, why do think people pay so much attention to the fate of Wei Jingsheng? A: Because... I believe that I always care about the Chinese people and that's probably why they also care about me. Because... I think that when the two heads of state talked about me, they were not thinking of me as an individual because I am merely a very ordinary person. They were mainly concerned that I represent those ordinary people who long for democracy, freedom and respect for human rights. Those people actually consist of more than 90 percent of the population, including the majority of the communists. They all have this kind of desire. Therefore, although there has never been any vote by show of hands, my fate is closely linked with that of 1.2 billion people. This is why this issue has become very important. But I never consider this to be my personal issue. Q: I am rather curious how you took this road, a very dangerous road. After graduation from the middle school, you became a Red Guard, joined the military service, and worked as an electrician. What personal experiences drove you unto this road? Was it after you read any books, met somebody, or saw something that you took this road? A: The situation in China then is known to all. There were very few books. Very few books could be found. Really limited. Apart from novels, most of the books I read about political theories were actually Marxist books. However, as long as you think in terms of the future of mankind and the conscience of the people, whatever road is taken, the destination will be the same. If I may quote a Western proverb: All roads lead to Rome. The most important thing that first broke my blind belief in the Communist Party was the constant changing faces and positions of Mao Zedong and Madam Mao during the Cultural Revolution. I was really disappointed and shocked to find that the Communist Party was not as good as it said it was. They were not working for the interests of the people but for themselves. I started thinking about a lot of problems since then. I devoured all the books I could get, day and night. More importantly, after that, we were sent to the countryside before I joined the military service. While in the countryside, I saw in reality what would be beyond my wildest imagination, all the great disasters the Communist Party brought to the people. While in the military service, I heard about all kinds of real situations in various places from other soldiers who were just peasants before joining the military service. Of course, my unit moved around the country a lot, thus giving me opportunities to see different places with my own eyes. In Shaanbei (Central China), residents had only about 100 kilograms of food, mostly yam, for the entire year. I saw how people were surviving in the extremely harsh environment, not at all like the beautiful picture the Communist Party had described. All this made me think more deeply, suspecting that the problems might not be that simple. It was not that this person or that person was bad, but probably there was something wrong with the wholesystem. After years of thinking, I reached the conclusion in the mid 70's that the Chinese people would soon fall into great miseries unless the social system is made democratic and the Chinese people could control their own fate instead of letting it be controlled by a small number of people. That was the main reason that I got involved in the Democracy Wall Movement. Q: But almost immediately after you took this very dangerous road, you were arrested in 1979. Although you were released for a short period afterwards, the Chinese authorities put you in the prison again. I understand that later in your prison life, you were put in a cell with transparent glass wall on 2 sides (Wei: on 4 sides), yes, 4 sides, with the light on 24 hours a day. You had no contact with other people. During such a long time in the prison like this, I wonder how you managed to maintain your psychological balance and your sanity to prevent yourself
Re: [CTRL] Fw: New Thinking: Milosevic And Clinton
-Caveat Lector- -- From: NEW THINKING NEW THINKING NEW THINKING NEW THINKING NEW THINKING Free weekly email contributing to a philosophy for The Digital Age By Gerry McGovern Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.nua.ie June 14th 1999 Published By: Nua Limited Volume 4 Number 24 MILOSEVIC AND CLINTON Bill Clinton has continuously overcome obstacles by engaging in a two-way conversation with the American people. He listens. He is always reaching out to his constituency, asking them how things are going, what they think about this and that? Bill Clinton doesn't 'rule'. He manages by consensus. And no matter how great his personal failings may be, the American people respond to him because he responds to them. What about all the executive orders? He doesn't even listen to Congress much less the American people. Slobodan Milosevic rules with an iron fist. Unfortunately for him, iron fist thinking belongs back in the Iron Age. He is a dictator, pursuing xenophobic nationalist policies, and his cruelty is only matched by his untrustworthiness. What about Waco? That sure looked like an iron fist. And how many bombs did Clinton drop on Yugoslavia (or Sudan)? Clinton trustworthy? Milosevic has a total lack of understanding of the key principles that underpin the Information Age. He still believes that power is maintained by hoarding information, whereas, in fact, today you get and keep power by spreading information around as quickly and efficiently as possible. You can't keep the public (your workers or consumers) in the dark today; they simply won't accept it. You get and keep power by spreading disinformation and getting away with it. Clinton is an expert. Milosevic is rarely seen in public. He hardly ever talks to his people, let alone listens to them. Serbia has little hope of participating in a productive manner in the Information Age, with that sort of archaic system and thinking. Because to survive, Information Age societies, economies and companies must be open and must embrace and share information. Milosevic was interviewed in English on American TV. Milosevic's wife has her own tv show. Has he never been on it? I doubt that. The consumer in the Information Society takes it for granted that the information they require will be available to them. If they come to you and you refuse or are unable to supply them with the information they require, then as I heard someone state, 'your competition is only one click away. Not giving a consumer the information they require today is like refusing to give them your telephone number ten years ago. In fact, the information game has moved on to a whole other level. The free flow of information has for many become a flood. Providing a quality flow of information merely gets you into the game today. You may think your information is valuable but what's really valuable is a consumer's time. A key challenge is thus getting the consumer to spend time digesting your information. Understanding a consumer and developing a relationship with them allows you to know how they spend their time and money. You get to know what their specific information needs are, thus allowing you to customise your information (and product) to their needs. And, if you do a good job at the above you can really brainwash them. Whatever you might personally think of Bill Clinton, he is unquestionably a pioneer of the Information Age. He knows that you succeed today by communicating, listening and creating consensus. (19 NATO countries staying unified was no small achievement.) I, for one, infinitely prefer a world managed by Bill Clinton than one ruled by the likes of Slobodan Milosevic. Gerry McGovern mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] What natural resources does Kosovo have? How is the KLA financed? If you don't know the answers to these questions and think that you understand the situation, you have been successfully propagandized. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at:
Re: [CTRL] Income, taxes and demagoguery
-Caveat Lector- In the following Mr. Tunstall writes that Thomas Sowell has been proven wrong by two Philidelphia Inquirer researchers. He does not specify what exactly in his article has been refuted. However, he does state that their study shows: "that the bottom half of American society is worse off than they were in the halycon days of Jimmy Carter". This may or may not be true, but I could find no reference to that question in the whole of Mr. Sowell's article. Howard Davis -- From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Income, taxes and demagoguery Date: Wed, Jun 9, 1999, 2:25 PM -Caveat Lector- Mr. Sowell is engaged in a rather clever campaign of disinformation. Please read "America: What Went Wrong" by Barlett and Steele. Sowell's points are refuted by the statistical evidence compiled by these two Philadelphia Inquirer researchers. Their study is based on US Census and OMB statistics which show that the bottom half of American society is worse off than they were in the halycon days of Jimmy Carter. Sorry. The facts do not support Sowell's position. On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, M.A. Johnson wrote: -Caveat Lector- Income, taxes and demagoguery by Thomas Sowell WHEN YOU HEAR POLITICIANS and intellectuals talking -- often very loudly -- about "the rich," do you ever wonder who they are talking about and how much money those "rich" people make? And do you ever wonder why those who are making so much noise about the rich don't just come right out and tell us what kind of money they are talking about? Instead, we hear about the top 10 percent or the top 5 percent. But why so squeamish about saying how much money that represents? There is a reason for all this noise about the rich and for all the silence about how much money is involved. Talking about the rich is politically very useful for whipping up envy and getting support for heavy taxes. But the incomes of most people in the top 5 or 10 percent are a lot less than most Americans would consider rich. If the incomes of all the people in an American household adds up to $72,000, that puts them in the top 10 percent of all households. But, when a husband and wife make $36,000 apiece, most of us would not consider them rich. Nor would we be likely to think that putting heavy taxes on them would be a good idea. Any attempt to lower the taxes of such a couple is guaranteed to bring out the noisy demagogues in Congress, denouncing "tax cuts for the rich" because people in the top 10 percent would benefit. But the only people whose taxes can be cut are the people who are paying taxes -- mostly people in the upper brackets, who are not rich. Even the top 5 percent of households do not usually fit what most of us would consider to be the rich. If all the incomes in your household add up to $127,000, then you are one of those top 5 percent who are so rich that the government thinks it should be taxing you like mad. That's $63,500 apiece if husband and wife are both working about what mid-level civil servants would make. Or, if only one person is working and earning the whole $127,000 alone, that is about the average salary of a college president -- and much less than the average income of a college athletic coach. It is nowhere in the ball park compared to the incomes of top lawyers, corporate executives or professional athletes. What about the really rich people --- the ones with their own private jets and mansions here and there? There are such people but there are not enough of them to affect the statistics very much. Moreover, genuinely rich people usually have tax accountants to go with their jets and mansions, so that they can keep their jets and mansions. The people who really get hit hard by taxes that are supposed to be aking the rich are ordinary people who happen to be at the stage of their lives where they are earning more than they did in years past and more than they will be earning in the future. These are largely people in their 50s or early 60s who have worked their way up to a decent income and are seeing much of it drained away by politicians who proclaim that "the rich" ought to pay "their fair share." This "fair share" is as completely undefined as "the rich" themselves. The demagogues don't dare talk specifics in either case or people will start to see through them. If we look at wealth instead of income, it becomes even more obvious that "the rich" are not a different class of people but largely people in older age brackets who have accumulated some money in a pension fund, paid off most of their mortgage and put a little money aside to see them through retirement and the illnesses of old age. The average net worth of households headed by someone 65 years old or older is more than 10 times the net worth of households headed by someone under 35 years of age. But these aren't
Re: [CTRL] Shootings a boon to home education [a bard bonus]
-Caveat Lector- "Once people see that home schooling is viable, (Columbine) might push them," he said. Life Magazine made a list of the individuals who had the most effect upon our civilization during the last millenium. At the top of the list was Thomas Alva Edison. When his teacher told his mother that he would never amount to anything because of his learning disability (of course, back then she probably would have said he was retarded), his mother took him out of school and he got the rest of his education from his mother (and reading most of the books at the local library). Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: How Christianity Harms the Race (http://www.amren.com/masterx.htm)
Title: Re: [CTRL] Fw: How Christianity Harms the Race (http://www.amren.com/masterx.htm) In answer to the following. I believe that the natural inclination of humans to help one another has been subverted by Christ's enemies. It has been taken from them and put into the hands of those who would use force and has been perverted into a justification for its use. See Kosovo, etc. It has nothing to do with race. Howard Davis How has Christianity sunk so low--and our people with it? The answer is that it has subverted inbred traits of altruism that help family and tribe survive, and has transmuted those traits into agents of passivity and surrender. Christianity has universalized altruism, thus stripping us of our defense against multiracialism. Today's Christianity drives us to betray our own interests to whoever asks. At the same time, a preoccupation with eternal reward in the world to come blinds some Christians to the consequences of their actions today.
Re: [CTRL] Hear No Evil? See No Evil? Speak No Evil? -- Please pass ...
-Caveat Lector- There is in the Constitution the provision for emergency rule in times of war or rebellion. Lincoln declared such an emergency during the Civil Ward, but it was later lifted. I believe that FDR declared a national emergency in March of 1933 and that this has never been lifted. If I am not correct about this, does anyone have a date for its ending? I do have a copy of the declaration of emergency from 1933. It was the basis for the confiscation of most American's gold. Howard Davis -- From: Bob Stokes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Hear No Evil? See No Evil? Speak No Evil? -- Please pass ... Date: Sat, Jun 5, 1999, 4:42 PM -Caveat Lector- 1. An executive order is a presidential decree or edict that assumes the force of law if it is not challenged by Congress within 30 days of signing. They are printed in the Federal Register. I have yet to find a law that authorizes an Executive Order and have been searching for several months. Does anyone know by what law these are authorized? If they are not authorized then they are bogus and should be removed from the Federal Register as ravings from a lunatic President, not just Clinton, but all former Presidents as well. Obviously the Constitution does not give the President the authority to make laws. Regards, Bob Stokes See below to help Helen Chenoweth Posted previously by Peter L. Sroufe: I have a courageous nonprofit, public interest law firm on my side: MOUNTAIN STATES LEGAL FOUNDATION. You see, as a Member of Congress, I couldn't afford to hire a team of high-priced lawyers to take on the hundreds of Justice Department attorneys Clinton has working for him. If it weren't for the MOUNTAINS STATES LEGAL FOUNDATION (MSLF), I would have been all by myself against the President and his team of TAXPAYER-FUNDED lawyers. But MSLF agreed to help me with my historic case. And they agreed to do it FREE OF CHARGE! Don't be mistaken, this is going to be a very expensive case for MSLF to handle. But helping the American people fight big government is what MSLF does best. Still, in order to make sure we win against Bill Clinton and his army of lawyers, we need YOUR crucial help. First, we need to show that the public will not stand for Bill Clinton's unconstitutional plot to make himself dictator. And to be heard, we need to receive an outpouring of public support. Will you please send your most generous gift possible to help Mountain States Legal Foundation pay for the many costs involved with this historic case? Your crucial $50, $100, $250, $500 or even $1000 shows that that you believe America is still a nation of laws. And that Bill Clinton is not above the Constitution. Or if that is too much to ask right now, could you please help out with an urgent gift of $20 or $35? It will certainly cost you more than $35 if Bill Clinton wins and is allowed to pass any big-government plan he pleases! And remember, Mountain States Legal Foundation is a nonprofit organization. So your gift to help this vital project and all of MSLF's work is tax-ductible. I hope you can include your tax-deductible gift of $20, $35 or more to help the great folks at Mountain States Legal Foundation stand by my side in this important battle. Thanks for being someone I can count on! For America, Hon. Helen Chenoweth U.S. House of Representatives Make checks payable to: Hon. Helen Chenoweth Member of Congress c/o MOUNTAIN STATES LEGAL FONDATION 951 20th Street P.O. Box 1560 Denver,CO. 80201-1560 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
Re: [CTRL] Nato:There is always a cost to defeat an evil.[was Waco an evil?]
-Caveat Lector- Without the name of the "libertarian" and the time and the station that you heard him I am forced to believe that you made the whole thing up as a means to discredit libertarianism. However, it is possible that someone might be put on the radio claiming to be a "libertarian" precisely for the reasons you mention, so I won't discount completely the possibility that you are telling the truth. And, of course, there is a possibility that someone could call himself a "libertarian" and be as muddled in thought as the person you have described. However, I have to wonder why you have not included this information in the first place. Howard Davis -- From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Nato:"There is always a cost to defeat an evil."[was Waco an evil?] Date: Tue, Jun 1, 1999, 6:35 PM -Caveat Lector- Last night I had an opportunity to listen to a local radio talk program hosted by an individual who claims to be a "libertarian." Since he's a new host for the show, the regular callers were interested in his opinion on Kosovo. Strangely, this self-proclaimed "libertarian" was championing the government's policy in Kosovo I thought that this was a rather peculiar position coming from someone who claims to espouse libertarian ideals. Then, as he elaborated his position, it became clear. The war is "good" because Serbia has refused to practice "free trade." You see, if a nation insists on its right to have an economic system that is different from the "free trade system" championed by the New World Order, then, according to the host's logic, Yugoslavia's "illogical" insistence on not practicing "free trade" and signing onto the EU agenda means that its regime (and its people) should be punished. Punishment, I guess, means "humanitarian bombing." But the "libertarian" host continued to make an astonishing statement. He told his listening audience (for the most part, conservative Republicans) that a world government is not a bad thing at all. Why? Because the world government would usher in what he believed to be a libertarian utopia: businesses will dominate and control global populations...local governments will be abolishedwe will all be part of one big happy economic trading system (presumably, led by the wise men of capital)...and in this "libertarian" paradise, the rich will get richer, and the poor will be justly punished. Surprisingly, not one of the usually contentious "conservative" telephone callers seemed interested in challenging him. It was as if a thick wooly blanket had descended upon their thought processes, and I was shocked to hear some of the usually crusty "better dead than Red" patriot types agree with him. I would like some of the libertarians on the list to share their thoughts on this subject. Clearly, NATO has violated the terms of its own charter by waging war on one if its European neighbors. It's also clear that the "accidental" bombing of civilian targets is not really accidental. The NATO forces are interested in terrorizing the civilian populationperhaps, it reflects a Malthusian approach of getting rid of Europe's "useless eaters." But I'm a little perplexed why so many of the libertarian contributors to CTRL condemn these Nazi-like policies. After all, once Milosevic is gone, and NATO enjoys its "victory," the last remnants of Tito's socialist state will have been delivered into the hands of EU apparachniks working for Swiss/German/British capitalists. Many of you free marketeers should find that a heartwarming prospect. Certainly, our local talk show host certainly does. But then I began wondering if libertarianism itself might be a tool of the global elite to usher in a one world government... well...it's a possibility. Just more of the old Hegelian thesis-antithesis stuff to keep the public constantly off balance while the noose around our necks grows tighter and tighter.. hmm.. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research
Re: [CTRL] Gaia Anti-Christ and the Ex-Files
-Caveat Lector- The following article is very interesting. In studying it, I noted that every time the author makes a damning statement about his target he uses the technique of first quoting from the subject and then paraphrasing his words. The paraphrasing is always the most damning. This always will get my attention. Why doesn't someone, of apparent intelligence, use the full quote for authority. For instance, if Mr. Icke makes a statement in his writing which is obviously anti-semetic, why not quote the statement (preferably with the page number)? From the following I really cannot tell if Mr. Icke is really anti-semetic or if the author inferred something that isn't there. I once watched a several hour tape of Icke and did not notice any anti-semetism. Perhaps I missed something. But it seems to me that if one is going to make such charges, one should be more careful in presenting one's proof. Also, the author mentions the Australian magazine, Nexus. He denigrates it as a magazine which "carries article by US militia leaders and dabbles in Holocaust revisionism". I have seen two or three issues of this magazine and have not noticed any such articles. Perhaps other issuses carried such articles, but if so, why doesn't the author give the dates of such issues? (And what does he mean by "dabbles in Holocaust revisionism"? Could that not mean anything from advocating the belief that there was no Holocaust to advocating the belief that the British knew that it was happening through their ability to read the coded German dispatches from the death camps? This article seems to be either poorly written or extremely well written propaganda. It is hard for me to say which. Howard Davis -- From: Bill Kingsbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Gaia Anti-Christ and the Ex-Files Date: Sat, May 29, 1999, 7:16 PM -Caveat Lector- http://www.kingston.ac.uk/cusp/Lectures/Thompson.htm Gaia Anti-Christ and the Ex-Files: A Trawl through the Cultic Milieu Damian Thompson 5 March 1997 Kingston University At the end of 1995 the radical Jewish magazine New Moon printed a long and disturbing news feature under the inspired headline "The Icke Man Cometh". The article, billed as a "special investigation", began as follows: "It is has been hard in recent years to ignore the popularity of almost everything that comes under the heading New Age. Yoga, meditation, Kabbalah, Buddhism, alternative medicine, environmentalism, self-improvement and New Age therapies have all gained in popularity, as have all other fringe interests like UFOS and the paranormal. But during the past year, a dark side to the New Age message of sweetness and light has become increasingly clear." According to the authors of the piece, Matthew Kalman and John Murray, a small number of influential New Age leaders are embracing conspiracy theories which are heavily influenced by the racist ideology of the far right. The article singled out David Icke, the former Coventry City goalkeeper and BBC sports commentator whose public declaration in 1990 that he was a son of God, and henceforth would dress only in turquoise, furnished the media with perhaps the most hilarious news story of the year. Well, you can stop laughing, said Kalman and Murray: for in the course of his eccentric spiritual pilgrimage, David Icke has turned into a fully fledged New Age Nazi. Kalman and Murray went on to quote from a book published by Icke in 1994 called The Robot's Rebellion in which his well-established Green views are overlaid by a fantastical tapestry of far-right conspiracy theories. Icke's villains are Jews, Freemasons, bankers, the FBI, the gun control lobby and aliens; indeed, he describes "Jehovah, the vengeful God of the Jews" as "quite possibly an extra-terrestrial." The Robot's Rebellion sold so well in New Age circles that it went into three editions; a year later Icke followed it up with a book called ... and the truth shall set you free, advertised as "the most explosive book of the 20th century", in which he proclaims that "almost every major negative event of global significance has been part of the same plan by the All-Seeing Eye cult to take over the planet via a centralised world government, central bank, currency [Eurosceptics please note] and army." Icke also describes this cult as "the Illuminati" and "the Brotherhood", but it soon becomes clear that he is most interested in its incarnation as "a global Jewish clique". Icke's antisemitism is of an exotic variety, increasingly well entrenched on the far right, which in addition to blaming the Jews for the First World War and the Russian Revolution, also holds them responsible for the worst excesses of Third Reich, including the Holocaust. Icke accuses Jewish bankers of funding Hitler's rise to power; he urges his readers to take Holocaust
Re: [CTRL] Committe of 300
-Caveat Lector- I finally get to agree with Nurev on something. I, too, have little regard for the "scholorship" of John Coleman. Once, I came across Coleman's book "Committee of 300" for sale at a meeting I was attending. I opened the book and read that Dean Rusk, as Secretary of State under Truman had encouraged the North Koreans to invade South Korea by his failure to include South Korea in his statement concerning area of US interest. Of course, it was not Dean Rusk, but Dean Acheson. I flipped to another page and read that the Beatle's music was attonal. Having studied music composition in College, I knew this was false. Of course, I might have turned to another page and read something that I did not know to be false. However, that is what worried me. I remember that it isn't what we don't know that gets us into trouble as much as it is what we know that just ain't so. Howard Davis -- From: nurev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Committe of 300 Date: Sun, May 30, 1999, 1:52 PM -Caveat Lector- Lloyd Miller wrote: -Caveat Lector- Here is the sole source of the "Committee of 300" nonsense put out by "Dr." John Coleman: Walther Rathenau, financial adviser to the Kaiser and agent of the Rothschild, in the Wienar Press, December 24, 1921, said: "Only 300 men, each of whom knows all the others, govern the fate of Europe. They select their successors from their own entourage.'" On June 24, 1922 he was assassinated by the Nazis. It is a great source of disappointment to me that more and more conspiracy theorist treat the "Committee of 300" concept on a par with the well documented Trilateral Commission, CFR, and Bilderbergers! Anyone crediting "Dr." John Coleman should first consult James Warner of Sons of Liberty, where Coleman was once employed: James K. Warner, Sons of Liberty, PO Box 449, Arabi, LA 70032. Mr. Warner has written an open letter describing his very negative opinions concerning "Dr." John Coleman. *** Kudos to Lloyd Miller, who knows the difference between conspiratorial politics, and wild eyed conspiracy theories. Good job, Joshua2 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: Post This]
-Caveat Lector- -- From: Colleen Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: Post This] Date: Sun, May 30, 1999, 9:58 PM snip I claim descent from Jefferson Davis, the first Catholic President of the United States of the Confederacy. I thought we went over this before. Wasn't it established that Davis was a member of a Presbeterian church in Richmond. I believe the only basis for this theory that he was Catholic was that he had attended a school with Catholic ties for a short time in his youth. Am I mistaken? I really have a hard time believing that the President of the Confederacy was Catholic. After all, Catholic priests were recruiting soldiers to fight for the Union in Ireland and Canada. I have a friend whose ancestor from Canada fought for the Union and he says that many others did the same. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] China Leaped When Clinton Elected Prez
-Caveat Lector- May be they want China to be strong enough to replace the USSR as a cold war adversary? Howard Davis -- From: Teo One Thousand [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] China Leaped When Clinton Elected Prez Date: Tue, May 25, 1999, 9:42 PM -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 5/25/99 6:41:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about no more Most Favored Nation trade status. How about telling them to peddle their wares elsewhere. How about no more Red Chinese and Russians scientists (operatives) in our military research facilities. I'll support these measures wholeheartedly. It seems that this is the least that should be done to the Chinese. Only idiots would question that secrets were stolen, and only idiots would say that those secrets were not meant to be secret for a reason. Further only an idiot would say that China (RED China) is not our sworn enemy. Which then brings up another point, just what the hell are we giving so many good deals to the RED Chinese, when they are IN FACT OUR ENEMY?! Teo1000 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substanceónot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] klintoonalgoreWH:considering fee for searching government Web sites]
-Caveat Lector- Hey.. vote in this Time Magazine poll on Gun controls, and THEN look at the results! They are amazing! Howard Davis cc: Subject: TIME.com Poll On Guns LET THEM KNOW WE ARE HERE http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/polls/gunpoll.html DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Summation of Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity
-Caveat Lector- E Mael wrote: while you were at it did you find any more filth on the good name of edison? No, I wouldn't say so. In fact, the more I read about both Edison and Tesla the more respect I have for both, while realizing more acutely their human foibles. If you are truly interested in understanding their relationship, I would advise reading the recent Tesla biography by Seifer (Wizard : The Life and Times of Nikola Tesla: Biography of a Genius (Citadel Press Book) -- Marc J. Seifer; Paperback). Here are some reviews from Amazon.com: Reviews From Booklist , November 15, 1996 What kind of genius can fathom the mysteries of electromagnetism but cannot keep corporate lawyers from taking him to the cleaners? Perhaps because his life did not culminate in wealth and acclaim, Nikola Tesla has largely slipped from the national memory. Seifer's biography rescues him from oblivion, bringing back to life the amazingly creative intellect that gave us fluorescent lighting, wireless communication, cheap electrical power, and the remote control. But Seifer also resurrects the wounded, self-destructive personality who never recovered from the loss of a favored older brother and who spiraled into weird obsessions, mental collapse, and poverty as he watched other men use his inventions to win fame and riches. Seifer does an admirable job of explaining his subject's technical feats and analyzing his psychological idiosyncrasies. Tinged with pathos, this meticulously researched biography deserves attention from all who would understand the human tragedies played out in the shadows of our neon culture. Notes, appendix, and bibliography. Bryce Christensen Copyright© 1996, American Library Association. All rights reserved --This text refers to the hardcover edition of this title Synopsis Nikola Tesla, credited by many as the inspiration for radios, robots, and even radar, has been called the patron saint of modern electricity. "Wizard" is the definitive biography of this founding father of modern technology of photos . Customer Comments Average Customer Review: Number of Reviews: 10 Christopher Wise from Hurricane, WV , April 13, 1999 tell everyone about tesla everyone in the scientific community should be informed about the struggle to get Tesla's work recognized. He was perhaps the most infuential scientist of our century. [EMAIL PROTECTED] from Saratoga Springs, New York , February 3, 1999 Fabulous book on the genious of N. Tesla, a MUST READ I read the 1998 softcover edition and LOVED IT! I first saw the name "TESLA" as a "brand" name on the television sets in eastern Europe. My curiosity up, I searched Amazon.com and found this book. I became a TESLA fan immediately! TESLA had the greatest inventive genius of the 20th century, and most of his key patents were filed in the 1890's !! HE WAS SO FAR AHEAD OF HIS TIME that some of his work is still labeled "TOP SECRET" by the U.S. government today. This book is a lesson in history, conspiracy, industrial espionage, science, corporate power and the sheer awesome genius of TESLA, whose name SHOULD be taught to every school childbefore that of EDISON !!! A reader from Lisbon, Portugal , December 21, 1998 The best Tesla Biography to date This book is without a shadow of doubt the BEST book on Tesla ever written. If you're looking for non-technical Tesla information, this is the book to buy! A reader from New York, NY , November 11, 1998 Tesla is a valuable target of study I really got a lot out of Seifer's book. The detail is excrutiating. The book flows as Tesla's life did, and it truly gives powerful insight.
Re: [CTRL] [MC] and EVIL TELETUBBIES
-Caveat Lector- Yardbird wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Mon, 10 May 1999, Mark McHugh wrote: I remember reading a study back in the 80s about physical/psychological reactions to colors. Subjects were placed in rooms painted solidly with various colors. Pink stands out in my mind for some unknown reason. It produces a calming effect...for a short period of time. After about 15 minutes of sitting in the pink room, most subjects would be come agitated. Perhaps some other readers of the list have better information. I haven't seen this information since back then. -- Mark McHugh Really? I remember the study, unless there was more than one, in which pink was actually found to have a calming influence over time; especially in regards to prison populations. I'm not sure there were ever any experimental replications. Could be wrong on both accounts. I also remember the study. I believe that the color pink was used in the holding cell of a jail. This was an area where prisoners were kept when they first were brought in while waiting to be processed. It was observed that in most cases the prisoners were much less violent after a short period in this particular cell. However, I believe I remember that one prisoner was held there for several hours inadvertently (supposedly) and was so effected by the color that he was trying to scrape the paint off the walls. My understanding of color would be that the red side of the spectrum is stimulating and the blue side relaxing. However, it could be that the color pink had just a small amount of the stimulation effect and acted as a sedative in the same way that a small amount of drug stimulants such as Ritalin can cause relaxation in people who are stressed. Long exposure would cause one to cycle back into stimulation. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Why GUNS are here to stay.
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: "Howard R. Davis III" wrote: On several occasions Nurev has threatened his critics with a future revolution of the people. He seems to enjoy fantasizing about a future revolution against the "capitalists" who he seems to fear will take over the government. I'm not threatening revolution. I am saying that the natural outcome of Capitalism is concentration of wealth. The natural outcome of the concen- tration of wealth is poverty for most people. The natural outcome of poverty is social disintegration. The natural outcome of social disintegration is dictatorship. And the natural outcome of dictatorship is revolution. I don't want ANY of these things to come about. But any fool can see that those situations would be infinitely more deadly if they occurred in a country with free access to millions of guns. (They haven't already?) Yet here he wants to take away their guns. What kind of sense does that make? Right! Like you gun loonies are really going to stop tanks with your 9mms and your shotguns. During the Hungarian revolution many Russian tanks were taken out with "Molotov cocktails". Tanks are not necessarily unstoppable. Also, TOW missiles might become readily available if a civil war were to erupt. However, as I am sure you realize, a well armed citizenry would be impossible to stop even if the opposition had help from outside forces (as they probably would). Your scenario of revolution becoming an inevitable outcome of the concentration of wealth is true. However, you keep calling this "capitalism". Free market capitalism does not lead to a concentration of wealth. It is only when capitalists are able to control the government and use its powers to limit competition that great concentrations of wealth are really possible. Read some of the other articles that have appeared on this list about the Mellon family or the Roosevelt family and you will see that their great wealth was derived in large measure through the power of government. These efforts to amass great wealth were empowered by the creation of laws to the benefit of these elite. This is not a result of the liberty I and others you so often demean advocate, but rather is a result of the growth in government powers which you certainly do not seem to deplore. If this is to lead to a revolution, as you seem to believe, why do you want the people to be disarmed while the government (which you know is under the control of the elite you seem to deplore) is so well armed? Who the hell do you think you are impressing? No one takes you clowns seriously except your own delusional selves. So I am a clown and delusional? Please try to control yourself when addressing me. Waco was very well armed remember? No, they were not. There is evidence that many of the guns were placed in the building after the fire. And, even if they did have many guns, half of the people there were women and children (and, of course, they were in a flimsy easily torched wooden building). The only thing that could have saved them was an outcry from all of us. Do you guys think there will be an outcry from the rest of your fellow citizens when we all decide through the political process that we no longer want guns in the general population AND YOU WON'T COMPLY? Get real. This society is too sick to have easy access to guns. Period. If this society is too sick to have easy access to guns then one must ask the question: Why is it too sick now when 200 years ago the leaders of our country thought the opposite? I suggested the possibility of modifying the First amendment to disallow the portrayal of violence in the media. (It seems that the present interpretation of the 1st amendment to allow these portrayals is fairly recent, as well). You agreed with me that the portrayal of violence in the media is bad and that you don't allow your children to watch it. However, you did not agree that the first amendment should be limited. Why not? We have had gun control for over thirty years. During that same period of increasing control of guns we have also seen a great increase in the portrayal of violence in the media. It seems only reasonable to me to believe that a decrease in the portrayal of violence would have a more beneficial effect than any increase in gun control could possibly have. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Ho
Re: [CTRL] CIA Screws Up Again (And Again, And Again--)
-Caveat Lector- From the following one would expect that many employees of the CIA made numerous errors in order to make the mistake in targeting the Chinese embassy. If this is really the case, then we should expect a large number of them to be fired. Supposedly, the CIA hires people of high intelligence and should have replacements available for those fired. Of course, if no one is fired, it can be assumed that either the CIA will continue to give inaccurate information or that, in fact, their information is accurate and they purposely targeted the Chinese Embassy. Howard Davis Das GOAT wrote: -Caveat Lector- "Bewildered CIA officials still could find no document in their files giving the correct location of the Chinese Embassy, even though it was common knowledge in Belgrade and among the diplomatic community. "The incident has raised questions about the CIA's role in target planning. "Knowledgeable U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity said the agency ONLY OCCASIONALLY picks targets. One of those instances was last summer, when the CIA recommended an attack on a target in Sudan ..." CIA Explains What Went Wrong By JOHN DIAMOND .c The Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) -- The CIA had the right address when it proposed that NATO bomb a Yugoslav munitions bureau. But the agency couldn't correctly locate that address on a map of Belgrade, and the point it selected turned out to be the Chinese Embassy. Two grim-faced U.S. intelligence officials delivered that extraordinary message to lawmakers in a closed-door session and then to reporters Monday as the diplomatic storm between Beijing and Washington swirled all around. ``It was the right address applied to the wrong building,'' one of the officials said. The other said, ``None of the fail-safes worked.'' They met reporters on condition their names not be used. Defense Secretary William Cohen cited two key errors made by the CIA and missed by the Pentagon and NATO strike planners. First, the spy agency failed to correctly pinpoint the target, the Yugoslav Federal Directorate for Supply and Procurement, on its maps. The directorate was a few hundred yards down the street from the site actually bombed. ``Second, the building that they did target turned out to be the Chinese Embassy, but their maps incorrectly located the embassy in a different part of Belgrade,'' Cohen said. The CIA was working with a map dating to 1992 and made by the Defense Mapping Agency, a Pentagon organization now called the National Imagery and Mapping Agency. The map shows individual buildings in Belgrade but no specific street numbers. And despite two updates to the map done in 1997 and 1998, the map still showed the Chinese Embassy in its former location in the old section of Belgrade. The Chinese moved their embassy in 1996. The U.S. diplomatic mission in Belgrade was aware of the move, but a State Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the mission officials did not consider it their responsibility to notify U.S. and allied strike planners. As a result, the allied ``no strike'' list, a tally of churches, schools, hospitals and embassies that NATO strives to avoid as it pounds away at Yugoslavia, was outdated. This paper error turned into disaster when the CIA, in recommending a strike on the procurement directorate, made a mistake when it tried to extrapolate the location of the arms directorate. The agency used known street addresses nearby, along with aerial imagery that showed a walled compound that fit intelligence information about the directorate's function as an arms supplier and exporter. A missing ingredient was an agent on the ground in Belgrade actually looking at the prospective target because no agent was available. A single B-2 bomber loaded with satellite-guided bombs attacked the compound Friday night. A senior intelligence official described confusion, then shock and dismay at CIA headquarters and the Pentagon when they first learned that the Chinese Embassy had been bombed. The initial guess was that a bomb or missile had gone astray. When the news that the embassy had been struck broke Friday night, ``We started looking, 'Where's (the Chinese Embassy) at?. Oh my gosh, it's the target,'' the intelligence official said. After the strike, bewildered CIA officials still could find no document in their files giving the correct location of the Chinese Embassy, even though it was common knowledge in Belgrade and among the diplomatic community. The incident has raised questions about the CIA's role in target planning. Knowledgeable U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity said the agency only occasionally picks targets. One of the few instances that gained attention occurred last summer when the CIA recommended an attack on a target in Sudan that turned out to be a pharmaceutical plant and that may or may not have been
Re: [CTRL] Why GUNS are here to stay.
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whether they be pro-gun or anti-gun, most people would acknowledge that mankind has certain, Inalienable Rights. Not at all. Rights are a conceptual legal concept. If everybody plays along, you have rights. If most, or even many people don't play along, you have bupkes. There is nothing inalienable about legalisms in the real world. The above is a most revealing statement. It shows that Nurev has the same understanding of rights as did Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and all the other mass murders of the past (and of the future). They have no concept of the agreement among mature people to recognize the humanity of others and not treat them as resources to be exploited and killed if they get in the way. The very basis of the concept of "rights" comes from our innate understanding that others value their lives and we cannot take that life without doing harm to our very soul. (There has been some postings on this list by a retired military officer about the difficulties in training young men to kill which go into this more deeply). We look at ourselves and others and realize that others have a life which they value as much as we value our own. While Nurev may claim to wish to ban guns for the good of humanity, it is obvious from his replies that this is only a cover. His replies often show a deep hatred for any who disagree with him and often are made up of threats of harm (of course from others, not himself) to that person and an unseemly desire to see that threat of violence come to fruition. In an earlier post to this list, I suggested to those who wish to end the "culture of violence" that instead of repealing the 2nd amendment, that the first amendment might be modified to prohibit the showing of violence in the media. Did anyone one of those supposedly so concerned about the "culture of violence" respond? Of course not. They are not interested in this because they, in fact, are happy to see this violence in the media and in our society. They want to see this, because they know that it is necessary for their campaign to disarm the American people. Does anyone doubt that they are happy to hear of the killings? Look what Nurev writes later about the increasing number of people who might join his cause: "Oh yeah??? Wanna bet? This country has one, maybe two more massacres left before it becomes a groundswell". Does that not sound like someone who is looking forward to more such murders? On several occasions Nurev has threatened his critics with a future revolution of the people. He seems to enjoy fantasizing about a future revolution against the "capitalists" who he seems to fear will take over the government. (They haven't already?) Yet here he wants to take away their guns. What kind of sense does that make? Of course, Nurev probably has a nice useless government job and really doesn't care a bit about the "people". Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Flaw in Capitalist system]
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- "Howard R. Davis III" wrote: -Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- Ah, here is the crux of the problem. This person, and and capitalists in general would like everyone to take on their belief system. Individualism, individual rights, and the ever so lovely PROPERTY IS PRIOR TO LAW. These twisted apostles of greed and arrogant stupidity are just simply selfish bastards inventing justifications for their sorry assed selves. Who in their right mind would claim that " property is prior to law?" Not only isn't this factual in all of human evolution, but it's a pathetic indication of a warped and sick personality. Long before governments and law existed men and women gathered or killed food to eat. Was this food not their property? No. It was food. They created tools which made their efforts more efficient. Were these tools not the property of their creators? No. They were possessions. Please explain the difference between property and possessions. Later they planted and cared for certain plants which they found they preferred over others. Were these not then their property? It was in order to protect these properties from those who simply stole these creations from their creators that the banding together of people originated. What is this mish-mash? People (?) banded together for warmth and mutual protection even before they were people. You are correct. People and their predecessors did band together before property was developed. However, as the possessions of the people increased from just their lives to tools and surplus food the banding together increased in complexity. Agreements between unrelated groups had to be made and this is where you get the first lawyers, I suppose. What you are describing above is the A.O.P.L. the Association Of Paranoid Landlords. Yes, precisely. Thank you for agreeing with me. This was the origin of government and law. And, in fact, it seems that early written records indicate that law preceded government. At least that seems to me to be what is indicated by the early books of the bible. Yeah, there is a good source for historical reference. Again we are in agreement. Property is a legal invention. Like the corporation. It came into existence to legitimize and institutionalize the holdings of the rich. Property is an agreed upon fiction. Especially when it is in the form of land. How can you own something that was here before you and will be here after you. It is the state that insures ownership. If there is no state, then you need to command force to protect your property. Property rights are flimsy at best. Human rights and property rights often come into conflict where the property owners userp the power of State. Then comes revolution and property is redistributed or redefined. Funny how Libertarians and Conservatives and capitalists in general see these legal inventions as natural rights. There is nothing natural about lawyer reality. It's always just a temporary condition. Or as Mao said: "Power comes through the barrel of a gun". Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Flaw in Capitalist system]
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- "Howard R. Davis III" wrote: -Caveat Lector- Ric Carter wrote: Does the concept of the primacy of "individual rights" preclude any individuals from joining in free association, incorporating as groups to engage in commercial, charitable, governmental or other activities? Do corporations [public or private] have more, equal or less rights than individuals? Corporations do not have individual rights nor should they. They are a creation of government and thus should be regulated. No no. They are the creation of Capitalists with the license from government. Jeez guys, can't you get over this government as bogeyman shit? It positively ruins your thinking abilities. A corporation is an artificial entity. It can have no existence without government. It is you that have a problem with your thinking ability. It is true that someone (usually capitalists, but also others) may petition the government for the corporation's creation and own it. It is, however, created by the government when a charter is filed. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Modest Proposal
-Caveat Lector- Robert Tatman wrote: -Caveat Lector- At the risk of being massively flamed, I am compelled by a sense of what I can only call spiritual and emotional maturity to propose that the time has come to repeal the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. What is at issue is not some supposed innate right to keep and bear arms. What is at issue is the culture of violence that puts firearms on a pedestal and worships them. What is at issue is the culture of violence that insists on "getting even" instead of resolving conflicts. Your wish to end the "culture of violence" is a worthy goal. I, too, would like to see it end, so we are in agreement here. I also do not like guns or weapons of any kind. Holding a gun in my hands does not feel good to me in any way. I am a violinist, composer, inventor, and artist. I would rather create than destroy. However, I understand the fear of those who do not want to see the citizens of this country disarmed while the government remains massively so and shows signs of turning into a police state. And, because I acknowledge the fact that there are many who would see the confiscation of guns as a last straw and would resist it with violence, I would have to oppose the ending of this right for that reason, if for no other. So, I wonder if you really desire to end the "culture of violence" and are not opposed to limiting our present rights which are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, that you might embrace the modification of another of these amendments. Would not an amendment to the Constitution which modified the first amendment to allow the government to ban the depiction of violence in all entertainment forms be something which you would support? This would certainly go a long way towards ending the "culture of violence" you wrote about and should garner more support than your proposal to repeal the 2nd amendment. It seems to me that it would be an action towards your goal which would be more acceptable to the majority of conservatives who often favor censorship. Perhaps it might actually have more difficulty among liberals, but I am sure that the importance of ending the "culture of violence" would be a stronger motivating force than any fear liberals might have of weakening the protection of individual rights. And, we know from history that the loss of the ability to show violence in entertainment would not significantly diminish its quality or impact. Shakespeare was able to entertain and enlighten millions with little (if any) depiction of violence. So would not such a modification of the First Amendment be something which all can support (except, of course, libertarians with their almost religious belief in "rights"). Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] A Modest Proposal]
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: I think there should be laws ENCOURAGING people to buy guns and carry them with them everywhere...if MORE people had guns, the crooks and creeps would then have reason to pause and wonder if their intended victims just might shoot back, instead of being 'sitting ducks'... After a city up north banned guns within the city limit and got a lot of publicity, a small town north of Atlanta (Kennesaw) enacted a city ordinance requiring every household to have a gun (if you didn't want one, though, there were a lot of ways around the law). The crime rate immediately dropped. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Howard: Flaw in Capitalist system]
-Caveat Lector- Edward Britton wrote: -Caveat Lector- Howard: I am pleased to inform you that I, indeed, am one who agrees with the basic principle of rights to life and property, but, in practice, it never seems to work out that way for long given historical precedent--even under the best of governmental designs. And while, clearly, the "natural" laws of 'might makes right' are tyrannies to be eternally fought against, they somehow end up as the zero-point for a complacent society. The system always seem to degrade into tyranny untill we get involved in larege enough numbers to change our plight. This is my point, and one which appears to have basis in fact in America now, through the machinations of a near feudal and certainly tyrannical federal government. I think it was Jefferson who said: "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance". There are many who see government as a powerful tool which they can use for their own benefit. They are smart enough to get others to work against their own interests to put that tool into their hands and to increase its power. They make the same false promises that have been made by tyrants for millennia. We are long down that road to another tyranny, but many are beginning to wake up. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Crashing Apaches Are Kamikazes? (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- In his book on Vietnam and JFK's assassination, Col. Fletcher Prouty pointed out that about half of the helicopters in Vietnam crashed. I think about half of those were non-combat. He said that with helicopters you don't need an enemy. Howard Davis Brian Redman wrote: -Caveat Lector- CRASHING APACHES ARE KAMIKAZES? === (CNNS, 05/05/99) -- In World War 2, the Japanese used Kamikaze pilots who served on suicide missions. They would purposely crash their bomb-laden planes into U.S. ships. It was part of Japanese war strategy. The ABC News web site reports today that "a second Apache helicopter has crashed in Albania." This means that 2 of the 24 Apache helicopters sent to Albania have crashed even before they've been used to attack the Serb "enemy." Is the overall strategy to be that the pilots of the Apache aircraft will be Kamikazes? And is the true reason for the premature crashes due to overeagerness on the part of some pilots to prove their loyalty to the divine emperor, Bill Clinton? That is one possible explanation. Another explanation for the crashing Apaches is given in a recent issue of Mother Jones magazine. The AH-64D Apache Longbow was pre-specified to have a Vertical Rate Of Climb (VROC) of 450 feet per minute. And Boeing, which makes the Apache, did (in a way) deliver on the specifications. The Apache does have a VROC of better than 450 feet per minute, as long as it's not weighed down with missiles and extra fuel. "Army engineers say that for every pound the [Apache] Longbow gains, the helicopter loses 0.839 feet per minute of lift." [1] In theory, this translates to a fully loaded Apache not only being unable to climb at all, but even being unable to maintain altitude. The Apache's full complement of 12 missiles weighs 1,721 pounds. If, as Army engineers say, every pound equals a loss of 0.839 VROC, that means 1,721 pounds multiplied by -0.839 VROC equals -1,443.919 VROC. Mother Jones magazine calculates the VROC of a fully-loaded Apache as "*negative* 549 feet per minute." [2] Mother Jones cites a report from the General Accounting Office (GAO), which states that the Apache helicopter lacks the "agility to operate successfully in combat." [3] In related Military-Industrial Complex news, Teledyne, Inc., is connected with the manufacture of "cluster bombs." It is not yet ascertained by this news service whether Teledyne assists in building or builds the cluster bombs now being used in our "conflict" with Yugoslavia. Cluster bombs "explode in the air and release fiery bomblets that cover a wide range." [4] In 1995, Teledyne was sued and settled out of court for $2.2 million. Allegedly, Teledyne used "falsified tests to sell substandard radio gear to the U.S. government. Employees had been instructed to fake tests of electronic gadgets on Stinger and other missiles that enable U.S. soldiers to distinguish friendly from enemy aircraft... About 2,500 components that failed tests were sold to the military." [5] --- Notes --- [1] "Chopper Troubles." Mother Jones magazine, Jan/Feb 1999. [2] Ibid. [3] Qtd. in "Chopper Troubles," op. cit. [4] *Downsize This!* by Michael Moore. New York: Crown Publishers, 1996. ISBN: 0-517-70739-X. [5] Ibid. -- CNNS (Conspiracy Nation News Service) is an INDEPENDENT news outlet, not owned by anyone. (But of course, we would say that, wouldn't we?) BEWARE THE CFR! BEWARE THE CIA! BEWARE THE KNIGHTS! http://www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html http://www.shout.net/~bigred/cnns.html DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and
Re: [CTRL] Flaw in Capitalist system]
-Caveat Lector- Ric Carter wrote: Does the concept of the primacy of "individual rights" preclude any individuals from joining in free association, incorporating as groups to engage in commercial, charitable, governmental or other activities? Do corporations [public or private] have more, equal or less rights than individuals? Corporations do not have individual rights nor should they. They are a creation of government and thus should be regulated. Individuals are not an artificial entity and should not be regulated in a free society. It was the 14th amendment which gave corporations similar rights as individuals (and vice versa). Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] A Modest Proposal]
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: We would like to get guns out of daily life and see what happens. If the death rate drops ( which it will ) then that's the way it will stay. I recently got the following e-mail suggesting that your assertion that the death rate would drop is incorrect. However, if there is a rise in tyranny (as many who disagree with your proposal suggest), then your suggestion that the gun ban will stay in place will be correct. Howard Davis AUSTRALIA SEES MAJOR CRIME INCREASE AFTER GOVERNMENT FIREARMS BAN The results are in from Australia after theAustralian government banned firearms and forced the country's gun-owners to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, and the results are what we expected. In just one year after the government ban went into effect, costing the Citizens of Australia their rights the government more than 500-million dollars, a dramatic increase in criminal activity has occurred, including a whopping 44% increase in armed robberies. Despite the increase in violent crime, gun control advocates within the country continue to take a wait-and-see attitude. Since the firearm ban in Australia: * Homicides are up 3.2%; * Assaults are up 8.6%; and * Armed robberies up 44%. In the Australian state of Victoria, homicides with firearms increased 300% despite the government ordered ban. Statistics show that in the 25-years previous of the ban, there had been a steady decrease in homicides with firearms and in armed robbery with firearms. Additionally, there has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly throughout the Country. At the time the ban went into effect, Australian government officials said they believed that seIf-deefense was not a reason for owing firearms. From 1910 until the year prior to the ban, homicides in Australia had averaged about 1.8 per 100,000 or lower, and was considered a safe society by the world's standards. Australian politicians are now at a loss to explain why no improvement in safety has been observed after the monumental effort and expense was made in banning firearms from the society. Their response has sirnply been to wait longer. Sporting Shooter's Association of AustraliaExecutive Director Keith TidsweIl noted the citizens of the United States are fortunate because of the activity of pro- firearm organizations like TSRA (Texas State Rifle Association) and NRA (National Rifle Association). "The best organization you've got there (in the U.S.) is the NRA. We don't have an organization that size and as a consequence, we suffered. We hope that you don't suffer." Membership in Tidswell's organization has risen 200% in response to the ban as an attempt to organize against further controls, which are expected throughout the country. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Howard: Flaw in Capitalist system]
-Caveat Lector-
Edward Britton wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
Howard:
Long before governments and law existed men and women gathered or killed
food to eat. Was this food not their property? They created tools which
made their efforts more efficient. Were these tools not the property of
their creators? Later they planted and cared for certain plants which
they found they preferred over others. Were these not then their
property?
Sorry for butting in, but I'm a little fuzzy on this property issue. Of
what claim to "property" has anyone when there exists a greater power who
can take same away by force?
The same claim as one has to one's life. Your argument can be made just
as easily for one's life as for one's property. If your argument is
correct, then what claim do you have to your life? Can it not be
disposed of by others just as easily (if not more so) than your
property? Our founding fathers wrote: "We hold these truths to be self
evident". Perhaps they were wrong. However, it seems self evident to me
that I have a right to my life and thus to those products of my life
which I create as a means to sustain and benefit my life.
Now I realize that there are some who do not believe in the concept of
"rights". To their arguments (and perhaps you are one of them?) I do not
propose to argue. However, I cannot consider those who would basically
argue that "might makes right", etc. to be those with whom I would wish
to associate in any way. And, I would wish to work with others who would
agree with me that we do have "rights" to protect them. This is the
basis of government ("and to secure these rights governments are
instituted among men"). It is the belief in the concept of "rights"
which is the basis of all law. Without it there can only be tyranny or
anarchy. (Though perhaps one could have a rather pleasant anarchy if all
believed in the concept of "rights" but not in force?).
Howard Davis
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
Re: [CTRL] In Memorium
-Caveat Lector- I just wanted you to know that your tribute to your friend was one of the most beautiful I have ever read. She certainly must have been a wonderful person to have brought that out of you. I know from what you have written that she must have been a real blessing to you. I am sorry for your loss. Howard Davis Teo One Thousand wrote: -Caveat Lector- To all of you it is with profound sadness that I tell you of the death of someone who has been with us on CTRL for a long time. Her screen name was SWhite9194, and she had an alternate identity that she posted under; DRErebus (I helped her pick out that name). She was one of the most lovely and sweetest persons that I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I loved her dearly and will never be the same after the loss. She suffered through most of her short life with many illnesses and was on numerous medications. She still had so much love and life to share with people and a great concern and heart for others even in the midst of it. She helped me so many times and in so many ways that I could never, ever hope to count them all. She loved life and was determined to live the best way that she could through all of the worst that life offered her. She battled constantly against the sicknesses she had and against the cruelty of people that she had in her life and around her. I am one of the luckiest people in the world to have had her as a close friend and to have known her for the short time that I did. I want everyone here to think a kind thought for her and wish her peace wherever she has gone, according to your own beliefs. She was a Christian and had a deep faith in God, and even though I don't follow Christianity she understood and accepted me and my beliefs for which I was ever grateful. Much like everyone I have had to deal with setbacks and disappointments. I have had to deal with hurtful words from others and the unkind thoughts of many. She accepted me for who I was and did so with everyone in her life. She lived a short life, only just recently turning 28 years old, and it was filled with misery and woe, many times I wished that I could take away some of her pain and suffering to give her some joy and rest. The rigors of this life denied me that opportunity, as something always came between our being together. She went through hell on earth and it is my fervent hope that she has achieved that which she sought in this life, peace and rest, in a heaven that would always make her laugh and smile and be forever happy. Nothing could be better for her. One thing is for sure she will never suffer again from the illnesses that plagued her, she will never endure the hurt and pain of the evil people that surrounded her and she will never again have to cry herself to sleep at night or pray for peace. She has rest in some place and I am thankful for that if nothing else. Her name was Sharon White and she was a most wonderful and sweet person. Please remember her and shed a tear for a tortured souls passing and take a moment to wish her soul to find the peace and rest she so deserved. I loved her and you would have too if you had known her. Ted DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Re your spokesperson
-Caveat Lector- Liz Schumacher wrote: Subject: Re your spokesperson Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:48:08 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] YOU STAND BY what rosie odonnell said--and so does your company? the ENTIRE national company? So when Rosie says, hey, all people who own guns should go to prison---k-mart goes along with that?? please respond!! do you know what is at stake here?? liz My understanding of the following is that they support her right to express her opinion. Though the wording might have been clearer, I do not understand how one can read this and conclude that they are in agreement with her opinion. "Kmart also supports the right of free speech and stands by Rosie O'Donnell's freedom to express her personal opinions about gun ownership." Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Flaw in Capitalist system
-Caveat Lector- Jeff Russo wrote: -Caveat Lector- --- "M.A. Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: You guys are hilarious. Capitalism can not exist without the State. MJ: I contract with you ... I pay you $20, you paint my front porch. THIS is capitalism. Where is the state you were requiring? I contract with you... I pay you $20. You do NOT paint my porch. I now have two options: 1) hunt you down and get my money back or kill you. 2) Use some sort of legal recourse, provided by the state, to solve this dispute. A smoothly functioning Capitalist economy needs some sort of judicial system to ensure enforcement of contracts and settle disputes. This, by the way, is just about ALL you need from the state. But the Wise folks in Washington have provided us with SO much more! :) === Actually there is a third option. Belong to an organization which guarantees contracts not by force by by shunning. That is, if a person fails to fulfill his contract he would be black balled by the organization. The threat of subsequent loss of income (and reputation) would probably have as much effect as our present system which only seems intent on joining the thief in his thievery. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Columbine Misinformation]]
-Caveat Lector- Robert Tatman wrote: -Caveat Lector- "Howard R. Davis III" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- snip This does not make sense to me. Why wouldn't it be easier for the "oligarchy" to manipulate the media by having just one spokesman? Would this not keep opinions and facts which the "oligarchy" did not wish exposed from coming to light? It seems to me that the more sources of information, the better. Howard Davis More sources of information means more confusion and less certainty for the observer. Information equals the negative reciprocal of probability, I=-(1/P). It's in the interest of the Oligarchy to induce the citizenry (thee and me) to blank out, to overload, to change the channel... Oh look, there's a really good fight going on in the Flyers-Leafs hockey game on ESPN...besides, who wants to watch CNN all the time anyway? If you have one spokesman, even if he's lying to you, you can focus on what he's saying and ask yourself, "Now wait a minute--did that actually make *sense?" The Oligarchy wants us to be confused. As John Brunner has one of his characters in *The Shockwave Runner* exclaim, "Don't give me any more information! I've got more information now than I can cope with, so shut up! Do you hear me? Shut up!" The ESPN example does not seem to me to be one which bears on the question. Of course sports and entertainment do distract from attaining a clear understanding of a given situation since they would distract from concentration on the subject. However, the discussion pertained to multiple spokesmen. Your later argument that if you have one spokesman who is lying you can focus on him and perhaps learn the truth in that manner has some merit. However, it seems to me that most people tend to believe what they are told and do not question it unless they are told several things by several different sources. In that case they must then think about these disagreements and thus may come to discern the truth. Isn't getting everyone to agree on the same story the first thing that people do when they are trying to fool someone? Getting the story straight is a lot easier if you have only one spokesman. If you have several, one might mention something differently than another and cause people to wonder why. Or, each additional person disseminating information increases the chances of one slipping and letting something out. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Flaw in Capitalist system
-Caveat Lector- Lloyd Miller wrote: -Caveat Lector- Yes, I think that was the point I was making. But, remember America was Statist from the Get Go via the Federalists. Esp. Alexander Hamilton's advocacy of a Central Bank...ie, the First Bank of the United States. Laissez-faire is an ideal, not something that has ever been even approximately acheived. Well, not exactly from the "Get Go". There were a few years before the Constitution was ratified when the US was under the Articles of Confederation. This was a purposely weak confederation. There were over a dozen "presidents" during this time. Their main function was moderating congressional debates, etc. However, there were some problems, especially with money. It may have been a purposeful conspiracy to keep the system from working or there may have been some real problems. At any rate that was the real driving force for federation (originally the Constitutional Convention wasn't - they were only supposed to change a few things in the Articles). Afterwards things did get a lot better financially. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] This Day Will Live In Infamy (And So Should I)
-Caveat Lector- From an article in Naval History magazine? Is that the name of the magazine and what is the date? Howard Davis flw wrote: -Caveat Lector- "I always thought he was no good - he was a smoker wasn't he?" flw HISTORY REVISITED [Helen E. Hamman recalling a conversation with her father, who directed the war service operations of the Red Cross before World War II. From an article in Naval History magazine] "Shortly before the attack in 1941, President Roosevelt called him to the White House for a meeting concerning a top secret matter. At this meeting the president advised my father that his intelligence staff had informed him of a pending attack on Pearl Harbor, by the Japanese. He anticipated many casualties and much loss; he instructed my father to send workers and supplies to a holding area. When he protested to the president, President Roosevelt told him that the American people would never agree to enter the war in Europe unless they were attack [sic] within their own borders. . . . He followed the orders of his president and spent many years contemplating this action which he considered ethically and morally wrong." DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Columbine Misinformation]
-Caveat Lector- Robert Tatman wrote: snip Part of the problem is the tendency of law enforcement personnel to play to the news media, to put themselves in the best possible light. This usually means that instead of *one* person handling media contacts, you have half-a-dozen, each one telling a different story and none coordinating with any of the others. In addition, there is always the rogue elephant who talks out of class and gives the media stuff they really shouldn't have, probably because it isn't really correct. It seems as if every cop sees himself as Jimmy Smits on NYPD Blue, and wants to use the media to make sure the public realizes this... And this only makes it easier for the Oligarchy to manipulate the media into presenting the picture they want us to have. Bob This does not make sense to me. Why wouldn't it be easier for the "oligarchy" to manipulate the media by having just one spokesman? Would this not keep opinions and facts which the "oligarchy" did not wish exposed from coming to light? It seems to me that the more sources of information, the better. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Who Is Really to Blame?
-Caveat Lector- Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- from: http://www.zolatimes.com/V3.17/pageone.html A HREF="http://www.zolatimes.com/V3.17/pageone.html"Laissez Faire City Times - Volume 3 Issue 17 /A - The Laissez Faire Times April 26, 1999 - Volume 3, Issue 17 Editor Chief: Emile Zola Littleton Shootings Who Is Really to Blame? by Don Lobo Tiggre The One-Room Schoolhouse This is the current trend in American education, but it hasnt always been so. Consider the one-room schoolhouse of last century. Is it even imaginable that something like the Littleton shootings could have occurred in such an environment? No. And there are reasons for this. The first and foremost would be that parents back then did not expect the school teacher to teach their children to become responsible, healthy, moral adults. That was their job, and the teacher was there to teach letters and numbers (which he or she did with a success rate that would put many modern schools to shame). Another important reason is that the school was too small for any misunderstood outcasts to be neglected. The teacher would know much of the life history of each child, would know their parents, would understand their unique situations and challenges. Even if the teacher wasnt particularly sympathetic, he or she would at least be knowledgeable about every single child under his or her care. There were probably mal-adjusted outcasts in most one-room schoolhouses, just as there have always been outcastshow long ago did Hans Christian Andersen write "The Ugly Duckling"? But those unhappy souls would have a much better chance of getting the attention they needed back then than the misfits in todays massive indoctrination centers. To say that the increasing size of todays huge urban high schools is a contributing factor to school violence may seem to be making the same mistake that people who blame inanimate objects (like guns) make. But who designs these giant, politically-correct reprogramming factories? There are people, individual policymakers, who have been pushing things in this direction. Who are they, and where can we write them letters of protest? It would be useful to find out and let them know that we will hold them accountable. I recently spoke on the phone with the former superintendent of our school district in Michigan. In the sixties he had done research on the relative quality of education in the district while pursuing a doctorate (I think at U of M). He compared the IQ information with tests indicating achievement to establish a difference between potential learning ability and results. He then rated the differences between the various schools in the district expecting to show that the larger schools with modern libraries and facilities and more highly educated teachers would prove to have the least differential (i.e. performance met expectation). However, he found that the best performing school was a one room school house with eight grades taught by a teacher with only a two year certificate (soon to be closed). The second best was a two room school house (also soon to be closed). The poorest performance came from the largest and most modern school. He checked his figures in disbelief, but they were correct. He realized that the whole philosophy of bigger is better in education was unfounded. When he presented his data and findings to his professor he got a rude awakening. This was not the finding that was desired and his professor destroyed his data and he had to change to other research to obtain his doctorate. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] (2) Tesla [repost]
-Caveat Lector- Das GOAT wrote: -Caveat Lector- Excerpt from "Wizard: The Life and Times of Nikola Tesla -- Biography of A Genius," by Marc J. Seifer, 1996, Birch Lane Press/Carol Publishing Group (ISBN 1-55972-329-7) [Jump ahead to the end to get a taste of things to come ...] 2 Meanwhile, unbeknownst to Edison, Westinghouse had been surreptitiously meeting with Henry Villard, Edison's financial backer, over a two-year period to discuss a possible merger ... [Villard] conferred with J. Pierpont Morgan, the real power behind the operation, and had Morgan send Edward Dean Adams, a longtime banking associate, to Menlo Park to try and get Edison to align with Westinghouse. Edison would hear none of it. *** But this doesn't let us know why Edison "would hear none of it". Was there a finical offer that did not appeal to Edison? Villard switched tactics and approached Thomson-Houston with the thought of buying them out ... In December a meeting was held at 23 Wall Street, in [J. P.] Morgan's office, to finalize plans for a merger. After Morgan looked over the financial records of both companies, he realized that Edison Electric, which was in debt for $3.5 million, had less revenue [so he] suggested that Thomson-Houston buy out Edison Electric ... *** Bought out for how much? How much did Edison thus profit? It sounds like Edison got shafted. [H]e created a monopoly ... Morgan maneuvered Villard out of the company altogether --he had to blame someone for problems-- and Charles Coffin took control of the new consolidation. They named the company General Electric (GE). Edison realized that a new age of electricity had arrived, one that would not countenance [the financial losses created by] his commonsense, trial-and-error approach. *** In other words, he realized that he was falling behind the "text book" knowledge and thus needed to go into something else where his skills were needed. So Edison turned his interests to furthering the work of Edward Muybridge, a pioneer in motion pictures. In 1888 and 1891 he had his first patents on a device he called the kinetograph and a few years later he developed a fully-working movie camera and projection system. *** Very smart move on Edison's part. The "Morganization" of General Electric created an even greater foe for Westinghouse but also a critical problem for GE. Whereas Westinghouse was blocked [by Morgan's control of Edison's patents] from using an efficient lightbulb, GE was blocked from generating AC ... From the point of view of the courts, it was still undecided as to who the author of [Tesla's] AC polyphase system really was. Westinghouse had [patents from his own technicians] to back those of Tesla ... [GE] approached Charles Steinmetz with a scheme to work on improvements on AC designs in such a way that these would obscure Tesla's. Attracted [by] intrigue, Steinmetz accepted. The fray between Westinghouse and GE took a new turn in the race to win the bid to light the upcoming Chicago World's Fair and to harness Niagara Falls. Westinghouse [conferred] with Tesla ... and the money men reluctantly agreed to dismantle the lucrative but outmoded [pre- Tesla] machinery. [GE] hoped someone like Steinmetz could come up with a competing design, but they hadn't realized that Tesla held all the fundamental patents. Quite simply, there was no other [possible] system; one couldn't proceed without [Tesla]. [GE's Elihu] Thomson and Steinmetz were reduced to figuring out ways to somehow bypass the patents ... In a [clear] case of industrial espionage, [they] apparently paid a janitor to steal the Tesla blueprints from the Westinghouse plant. The intrigue must have triggered a variety of emotions in Steinmetz [who] had already lived a clandestine life in Germany. Editing a radical socialist newspaper under a pseudonym during the so-called Reign of Terror, he had learned to use secret passwords at radical meetings and write with invisible ink, as when he [acted as courier for] his leader, the charismatic revolutionary Heinrich Lux ... Steinmetz never renounced his affiliation with the Socialist movement, [yet] he supported an unscrupulous capitalist corporate structure ... motivated by the all-consuming profit motive [and counting on] its ability to subvert the law to achieve its ends. His affiliation with the Machiavellian policies of [J. P. Morgan-controlled] GE induced Steinmetz abandon his ideals: His opus on AC, "Theory and Calculations of Alternating Current Phenomena," first published in 1897, omitted any reference to Tesla ... (At the time, Tesla's [own] book was a veritable bible for all engineers in the field. That it does not even appear in the blibliography of
Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference
-Caveat Lector- E Mael wrote that aint the half of it, i read a couple of accounts a few years back that are accounts of his being a thief and a scammer who cheated more than only tesla out of their rightful dues for the sake of a couple of dollars. he screwed tesla well and a lot of other inventors at the time. he used his money like a club and a lot of people suffered because of him. you want references? read a book. That's a reference? You make accusations against a man of far greater value to society than yourself and this is the kind of proof you offer? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference
-Caveat Lector- nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- He did, however, invent They way I heard it he hired a staff, they did the inventing, and he took the credit. If so, he invented the modern research paradigm, a monumental feat in and of itself. People who think that Edison hired a bunch of people and then sat back and got all the credit haven't dealt with inventors. I have known dozens and have invented things myself. Most inventors have dozens of projects which they need help in creating. They come up with the basic idea, but realize that there are technical problems which need to be solved. In Edison's case, there were many experiments that needed to be done. Doing those experiments is not inventing, deciding what experiments need to be done is the crucial part of inventing. Edison is known to have done that. Certainly if you go to the story of how he invented the phonograph you would understand better that he was the sole inventor. Yes, he did bring a sketch to Bachelor and asked him to make it. And Baetchlor probably made some refinements based upon what Edison was trying to do. But it was purely Edison'ss idea and even he was surprised when it worked the first time. No doubt, that there were some claims on his patents that should have been attributed to others. However, I don't think that Edison was humble enough to work on others inventions. And that is what you and others are suggesting. Inventors don't work for money or publicity as most of you seem to think. They are useful, but inventors see problems and want to find solutions to them. Edison was an inventor. You can read his history and see that there were many inventions that he developed long before he hired helpers. He saw problems and he tried to solve them. Many of those solutions are still benefittingg us today. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] War Stars
-Caveat Lector- Robert Tatman wrote: snip This is an excellent and rather terrifying book. It appeals to both the science-fiction fan and the student of war, and it includes a lot of material on the personalities involved in the weapons game--including Thomas Alva Edison, "the Great Inventor," whose greatest invention was...himself, or rather his public image. It also does a lot to explain why Reagan bought into the "Strategic Defense Initiative" (High Frontier/Star Wars) scheme. *And* it is a damn good read into the bargain! Bob I don't recall any of Edison's inventions as being anything like a super weapon. He did work on batteries for subs during WW1 and was head of a group of inventors that were to work for the war effort. Tesla was certainly a more likely candidate for an inventor whose greatest invention was himself. Every year he would meet with the press and tell them of the great inventions he was working on. But after some successful early work, nothing came out but hot air. Most relevant to the above book was his (1935) defensive beam which he claimed would stop all invaders whether by land, air or sea. Did he really have it? No one knows. But it seems that if he had really had it he might have gotten it into the hands of the Yugoslav government. He had relatives in the government of Yugoslavia and so he had the connections. And, he was revered there, so they would probably have spent the funds for development. But when the Germans bombed Belgrade in 1941 there was no Tesla death ray to stop them. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference
-Caveat Lector- In inventing there is such a thing as a basic patent. That is, a patent which describes an invention which is basic and all others are improvements. When I said the following in reference to Edison: "He did, however, invent the light bulb and the basic system which provided electricity to this country (with the exception of Tesla's contribution of AC generator/motor)", I was referring to the basic system. (And, you will note that I mentioned Tesla's AC contribution). How that basic system is defined is where we differ. Previous to Edison's invention of the light bulb and the basic system to power it, there was no electricity being produced and delivered to homes and businesses anywhere in the world. To make his electric bulb practical for general use, Edison had to develop generators of greater capacity than had previously been available, wiring systems for transporting the electricity, metering systems, fuses for protection, receptacles, home wiring systems, etc. This was not a trivial undertaking. Long before Tesla introduced his AC system, Edison had wired up many cities in this country and in Europe (in fact, I believe Tesla worked in Europe for one of Edison's associates before he came to the US). It was this system that I refer to when I say that Edison invented the basic system which we now use. Regardless of whether or not Tesla or anyone else would have invented the AC generator/motor, this system would have continued and been improved even without AC. AC proved to be an improvement and was adopted for that reason. I never said otherwise. Edison tried unsuccessfully to keep the system DC based, but lost. As I have stated previously, the adoption of AC as standard was not without negative consequences. If DC had remained as the standard we would have smaller local power plants, no grid, no Atomic power plants, and we would not be as worried about Y2K. The relative size of cities would be different: our largest cities would be near hydro-electric power plants, etc. The cost of electricity, however, might be higher because of the lack of long distance efficiency in transporting it. However, it might be that there would be more competition and thus more efficiencies. Also, solar power and battery storage would be more practical because one would not need to change the DC produced through solar into AC for use (there is a loss in doing this). In fact, solar and wind would probably have been developed to a far greater extent for use in rural areas. Howard Davis Jeff Hearon wrote: -Caveat Lector- Again, I clear this up hopefully for the last time. Tesla was totally responsible for the polyphase AC dynamo, which is the basis for our eletrical power grid system.Edsion was a DC proponent, (why in the hell do you think he had such trouble with various filaments for the incandescent light bulb, Dah!!! DC will burn it out twice as fast.), GE was started using infringed technology from Tesla/Weshinghouse. Read your history.He was not as Howard Davis would have you believe responsible for the basic system which provided electricity to this country, there were at least six other prominant men engaged in this endeavor, including but not limited to Eli Houston, George Westinghouse. snip Thomas Edison was not a homosexual. He did, however, invent the light bulb and the basic system which provided electricity to this country (with the exception of Tesla's contribution of AC generator/motor), the phonograph, many improvements in telegraphy and telephones, many improvements in motion pictures, and many lesser inventions which have benefited us all (most of the lesser inventions being more useful than most other inventors major accomplishments). Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference
-Caveat Lector- E Mael wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: The only thing I can understand out of the gibberish above is that you expect me and the others on this list to accept your charges against Edison without any verification and if we desire to verify these charges we are expected to search through the millions of books and writings available to find the source and verify its believability. Would not someone who had a source for such charges produced it? Howard Davis anyone with a modicum of whatever, would know how to access exactly that data. e-mail me privately and so i can tell you exactly where to go. is that gibberish enough for you. quit bothering me. i have forgotten more than you will ever know and i have better things to do with my time than deal with your problem. remember, think of me. smilin' chris I have no problem. You are the one who has cast aspirations on Thomas Edison, a great benefactor of humanity, and have failed to provide the means for others on this list to verify that your charges have merit. It is you who have the problem. I am sure that you have done your reputation on this list no great service. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- Paul Argent wrote: -Caveat Lector- To anyone who has seen "Terms of Engagement" i strongly recommend it as one of the best documentary's i've ever seen. For what it's worth a few comments on Waco: Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Branch Davidians were non conformist in terms of their religion. Nevertheless, the issue seems to be that modern western society is unable to deal with individuals who are different or espouse unconventional beliefs, whether religious, political or social. Any comments welcome. It has also been suggested that a couple of the people there had expert abilities with computers and had tapped into information about the connections between government agencies and street gangs in LA. You will remember the ATF agents going into the window upstairs? That was where the computers were kept. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Yugoslav who made a difference
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But Edison had too much money invested in his DC system, so Tommy did his best to discredit Tesla around every turn. Edison constantly tried to show that AC electricity was far more dangerous than his DC power. Tesla counteracted by staging his own marketing campaign. At the 1893 World Exposition in Chicago (attended by 21 million people), he demonstrated how safe AC electricity was by passing high frequency AC power through his body to power light bulbs. He then was able to shoot large lightning bolts from his Tesla coils to the crowd without harm. Nice trick! Yes, and not exactly honest. He was using high frequency, low amperage. Not exactly what you would find in a home. http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/tesla/tesla.html Here's a task for you to try: Go check your encyclopedia to find the answers to the following questions: (answers are given in parentheses) 1) Who invented the radio? (Marconi) 2) Who discovered X-rays? (Roentgen) 3) Who invented the vacuum tube amplifier? (de Forest) In fact, while you're at it, check to see who discovered the fluorescent bulb, neon lights, speedometer, the automobile ignition system, and the basics behind radar, electron microscope, and the microwave oven. Chances are that you will see little mention of a guy named Nikola Tesla, the most famous scientist in the world at the turn of the century. In fact, few people today have ever heard of the guy. Good old Tommy Edison made sure of that. * Tesla worked in all these areas, it is true. However, he never developed a commercial fluorescent bulb. Money for this was invested by John Jacob Astor, but instead of using it for that purpose Tesla built his lab in Colorado Springs. He did design a speedometer, but I believe that it operated differently than those we now use. The ignition system? That was around before him. What was it that differed from those previously available? Electron microscope and microwave oven? He had patents on these? I never heard of them. Have you seen them? After all, Tesla was considered an eccentric who talked of death rays that could destroy 10,000 airplanes at a distance of 250 miles, claimed to be able split the Earth in two, believed that both voice and image could be transmitted through the air (in the late 1800's), and essentially told Edison to take his DC electrical system and stick it you know where. In other words, anyone that has even heard of Tesla probably considers him to be a first class wacko. * No, most people who have heard of him seem to think that he was the greatest genius of all time. They completely fail to see that most of his problems were caused by his own dishonesty and arrogance. I know, I used to think in the same way. But, the times are a changin'. The problem is that Tesla probably could do all these things that he claimed were possible. * Maybe, maybe not. He made great claims for his pump, but he was not able to develop it, though he did have support. People are still trying unsuccessfully to reach the efficiencies he claimed for it. In fact, Tesla invented every single one of the items listed above (but gets no credit) and much more. Look around you and chances are Tesla is somehow responsible for most of the things that make modern life so modern. He does not get credit because except for the AC generator and motor, he did not develop them to a point where they were commercially viable. No doubt about it, Nikola Tesla is the greatest mind since da Vinci. So who is this genius? Little Nicky Tesla was born in Smijlan, Croatia way back in 1856. He had an extraordinary memory and spoke six languages. He spent four years at the Polytechnic Institute at Gratz studying math, physics, and mechanics. What made Tesla great, however, was his amazing understanding of electricity. Remember that this was a time when electricity was still in its infancy. The lightbulb hadn't even been invented yet. When Tesla first came to the United States in 1884, he worked for Thomas Edison. Edison had just patented the lightbulb, so he needed a system to distribute electricity. Edison had all sorts of problems with his DC system of electricity. He promised Tesla big bucks in bonuses if he could get the bugs out of the system. Tesla ended up saving Edison over $100,000 (millions of $$$ by today's standards), but Edison refused to live up to his end of the bargain. *** This story may or may not be true. No one else verified it. Why did Tesla not get this agreement in writing? Was his understanding of what Edison agreed to insufficient, etc? And, as far as following agreements, Tesla did not follow his agreements with either Astor or Morgan. It is often claimed that J.P. Morgan pulled the rug
Re: [CTRL] The Virginia Way - Capitol of Colony flies Union Jack onspireabove cupola - NOW
-Caveat Lector- Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- An excerpt from: The Virginia Way Guy Friddell -Text Wolfgang Roth -Photographs ©1973 by BURDA GmbH Offenburg Printed in West Germany - Some of the tidbits amongst the chaff; During the Civil War General McClellan made Berkeley his headquarters. In 1862 General Butterfield composed taps there. Just a couple of days ago we had a story of how it was composed by a young Confederate soldier who died in his father's arms, etc. Which is true? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: What the US wants in Kosovo...
-Caveat Lector- I believe that the following is filled with factual errors. Here are a few that I have noticed from memory. Howard Davis Kris Millegan wrote: Subject: Fwd: What the US wants in Kosovo... Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:07:47 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: What the US wants in Kosovo... Date: 99-04-19 17:05:41 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Carrara) On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im not saying WWII was the best thing to do but, the axis forces DID in fact snip Japan had reached a conditional surrender with their ambassador in Moscow, under the condition that the Emperor, an extremely important holy figure to the Japanese, remain in place. This is the *only* condition, a simple request if you ask me, but the U$ would not budge, they wanted an unconditional surrender. *** My understanding is that the Russians did not forward this offer of surrender. Why else did the U$ drop those bombs? Well one thing that has been said is that too much time and money had already been invested in developing this atomic bomb, they *had* to drop it (remember Albright's statement to Powel, "what's the point of having the most powerful military in the world if we can't even use it"). This argument has merit, but even more so is the fact that the U$ wanted to destroy Japan so that they could instill their imperial powers before Russia did. For if Russia were to destroy Japan before the U$, Japan would have surrendered to Russia, and they would have complete control to Japan, as we did post-WWII. Russia had said (promised) that they would enter the war with Japan exactly 90 afters after the European war ended. Germany surrendered on May 8, making August 8 the 90 day mark that Russia had promised to enter into the war against Japan. *** I believe that they had already entered the war before the bombs were A-bombs were dropped. Stalin had full knowledge of the Manhatten project from his spies (it has recently been admitted that USSR's first A-bomb was an exact duplicate of one of the US bombs). Also, it has been pretty much established that Alger Hiss was a spy reporting to Moscow (through recently released KGB files). The first bomb fell on Hiroshima August 6, the second bomb fell on Nagasaki on August 7, literally day(s) before Russia had promised to enter into the war! Is this a coincidence, I think not! A former Secretary of the Navy said about Secretary of State James F. Byrnes as "most anxious to get the Japanese affair over with before the Russians got in." Is it any coincidence that prior to WWII, Russia was the enemy. They suddenly became our allies in the war against Germany. But as soon as the European countries surrendered, the enemy was switched back to Russia. Amazingly how quickly this all happened, isn't it? *** It actually took a few years while they took over Eastern Europe. For instance, they were given a free reign to take over Poland in 1946. (See "I Saw Polan Betrayed" by the US ambassador to Poland in 1945-6). snip It was well known that these targets (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) were purely civilian areas. I believe that Nagasaki was a major port. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Info on 'Spear of Destiny'
-Caveat Lector- AOL User wrote: -Caveat Lector- Have two cents to put in re Hitler being demon possessed. Joseph Carr in "The Twisted Cross" wrote that when Hitler was l2 he was listening to some Wagnerian opera and the devil spoke to him and Hitler willingly, knowingly asked the devil inside to take him over. This is very interesting. Could you give more specifics, such as what opera and where in the opera, what the "devil" said to him, and how Carr obtained the information? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The First Casualty
-Caveat Lector- "Dennis, Andrew" wrote: -Caveat Lector- The first World War was the first time there was highly organized state propaganda. Inaccurate. Kitchener organised the first serious news control in the Sudan and the Boer Wars, and there had been news management as far back as the Crimea. The British had a Ministry of Information, and they really needed it because they had to get the U.S. into the war or else they were in bad trouble. In the second world war, certainly. In the first lot, by the time the US came in, we'd confined the German fleet to its home ports (battle of Jutland), held the germans to their lines for the best part of three years, and had them on the cusp of the three months of continuous German retreat that brought about the 1918 armistice. Total US involvement in World War I was somewhere less than 100,000 (ie., about a week's casualties for the British and French during an offensive). All the US forces in WWI did was balance up the Russian capitulation. Measuring the effectiveness of an army by how many casualties it had is not very accurate. More importantly is the strength of that army, its potential, how many casualties it inflicts, and how much territory it takes. Before the US came into the war there was a basic stalemate. With the surrender of the Russians the balance would have shifted towards the Germans. The Eastern front was large and took a considerable number of German combatants out of the western front. Even with the addition of the US fighting forces, Germany had not been invaded when it surrendered. However, it had become obvious to the German leadership that with the men and supplies now coming (and soon to come) from the US, there was no way the war could have been won. Previous to the US entry, it was still possible for the German leadership to believe that a favorable negotiated settlement was still possible with an exhausted enemy. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Info on 'Spear of Destiny'
-Caveat Lector- Teo One Thousand wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 4/17/99 8:09:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Teo One Thousand wrote: It is a certainty that the music you speak of does have some effect upon the people who hear it. This is why it was used, just like all of the occult symbology of the Nazi's. Hitler was portrayed by some, and unfortunately still is portrayed, as a messiah-like figure which was the only way in which the Fatherland could be reborn and remade into the greatest nation ever. Rubbish of course, but it is NOT about whether such things are TRUE but whether they are believed, and many did and still do believe. There is power there simply on that basis alone. The homosexual angle is one that has occult overtones also, women "steal" your life essence, being with a man does not deplete ones "masculine nature". Again pure rubbish, but believed by many. Teo1000 I agree that the power of belief may be the full explanation for the power derived from these "potions", but I do not discount the possibility that the power of belief does not in some way link into other powers we do not understand. Howard Davis A point well said, and one which I would not discount either. Surely "Occultism" itself, being about "hidden" things would mean necessarily that much of it would be unknown. There is power in the belief as well as power to be gained from other means, natural or supernatural. Teo1000 PS It has been my contention, regarding the "Occult" that it gains power and has force due to the fact that it thrives and propagates in secrecy. My contention is that the secrecy itself is a force of power that can be tapped into and used. This is why it is always stated in religious mantras that to bring something "into the light" is to render it harmless. The very fact of secrecy is the source of power. Whether true or not, it is certainly an appropriate thought to express on a CTRL! The truth will set you free. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Interview
-Caveat Lector- Andrew Hennessey wrote: -Caveat Lector- on of violent crimes than in the commission of them. probably because he is a mentally ill sociopath. Andrew Hennessey The Colonel was just putting a liberal lady who was pushing her agenda in her place! I think he did it brilliantly! Bill Excuse me Bill, but the Colonel was doing more than that. He inferred in his dialogue that the lady had 'natural sexual equipment' that could be used 'un-naturally' and by inference further suggested that Mans 'natural equipment' was a gun - which could also be used 'un-naturally' *** He did? I don't remember him saying that either was natural or unnatural. Where the Colonel demonstrates Sociopathic traits is his assumption that Mankind should 'naturally inherit' the TOOLS OF DESTRUCTION. eg. guns 12 millenia of such Neanderthal thought must surely have taught even the most basic retard in the Military that the only reason to bear arms is the unnatural defence of the TOOLS OF CREATION and their society. There is nothing 'Natural' about Slaughter to a reasoning, creating and nurturing Society. Where is this reasoning, creating and nurturing society? I want to move there. The colonels point of view is not social or civilised, nor ar his manners or attitude towards someone he is sworn to defend. *** Defend? With what? Not a gun by any chance? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Calif. blood lab patients warned in needle scare
-Caveat Lector- It may be that some needles are better manufactured than others and she was keeping the good ones for patients who had finer veins. My mother was at one time a specialist at starting IVs. Some people have very large veins and are easy to start IVs on. Others have finer veins and it can be a big problem. How would you like to be stuck several times? She probably thought she was doing them a favor. Incidentally, it used to be that all needles were re-used. My mother had a set that she used for giving anti-biotics to us kids for years. They got rather dull. We were happy when she got the throw away type. However, she would always sterilize them in boiling water. Much better than H2O2. Howard Davis "Hilary A. Thomas" wrote: -Caveat Lector- When I heard this report last night I was floored. Why would the tech do this? Her training would indicate that it can't be ignorance. Lazy? It's harder to wash a needle then to open a new package. So, what's up with this? Hilary Calif. blood lab patients warned in needle scare By Greg Frost SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Thousands of patients who had blood drawn at a California laboratory will be warned to take AIDS and hepatitis tests after a technician at the lab admitted she sometimes reused disposable hypodermic needles, officials said Friday. Confirming a report in the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper, state health authorities and Anglo-U.S. drug maker SmithKline Beecham said they were mailing warnings to at least 3,600 patients in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties who had blood work performed at a SmithKline clinical lab in Palo Alto, Calif. SmithKline fired the unidentified technician, or phlebotomist, after a colleague saw her reuse a needle on March 22. During an investigation, the phlebotomist acknowledged reusing certain needles to draw blood from patients with veins that were difficult to access. snip DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Info on 'Spear of Destiny'
-Caveat Lector- Teo One Thousand wrote: It is a certainty that the music you speak of does have some effect upon the people who hear it. This is why it was used, just like all of the occult symbology of the Nazi's. Hitler was portrayed by some, and unfortunately still is portrayed, as a messiah-like figure which was the only way in which the Fatherland could be reborn and remade into the greatest nation ever. Rubbish of course, but it is NOT about whether such things are TRUE but whether they are believed, and many did and still do believe. There is power there simply on that basis alone. The homosexual angle is one that has occult overtones also, women "steal" your life essence, being with a man does not deplete ones "masculine nature". Again pure rubbish, but believed by many. Teo1000 I agree that the power of belief may be the full explanation for the power derived from these "potions", but I do not discount the possibility that the power of belief does not in some way link into other powers we do not understand. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Russia's Operational Starwars Defense System
-Caveat Lector- Kevin wrote: -Caveat Lector- This was confirmed by Dr. Coleman in the 92 version of THE COMMITTEE OF 300. A rather curious line tucked in the end of the book, "and why don't they pursue SDI to protect us from Russian cosmospheres". As I pointed out in a previous post, there are a lot of inaccuracies in this book. I would not consider anything that Dr. Coleman says as confirmation of anything. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Info on 'Spear of Destiny'
-Caveat Lector- My brother was at a gym once where kids were working on gymnastics. I believe it was a summer camp. Anyway there the regular pop music of the day on the radio (70s). The coach said to my brother that he was going to show him something interesting. He said notice how well the gymnasts are doing right now. He watched for a minute or two. Then he put on a record of German marches. The kids improved immediately. BTW. If you want to hear real Nazi music, listen to Carl Orff's Carmina Burana. It was commissioned by the Nazis and I have heard that it was commissioned by the head of the SS, Himmler. I don't know the latter for sure, but I do know the former. I was in an orchestra that played it once. The conductor announced that one of our very own members was in the orchestra that first premiered it in Vienna and he introduced a cellist and asked him to speak about it. He started telling about the performance being severely booed. But said it wasn't necessarily because the people didn't like the music. Rather that this was their way of demonstrating against Hitler since the nazis had commissioned the music and this was just after Austria's takeover by Germany. You should have seen the face on the conductor. Our rehearsals were held in the local Jewish community center. Howard Davis ps. The nazi connection to the occult and also to "butch" homosexuality seem to have been covered up. I once read a book about Jan Karski the Polish underground courier who purposely went into a Nazi death camp so he could report on it when he got to England. He had been picked up earlier by the Gestapo and had been interrogated by a twentish SS officer. He noticed that the officer treated him very warmly and respectfully, etc. And also that he had spoken extensively about his years as a Hitler youth. He had told Karski how he had been the protogete of the leader of the Hitler youth, but had fallen out of favor, etc. It sounded to me like the guy was trying to get Karski to become his lover. I looked up the name of the guy who had been the leader of the Hitler youth and it turned out that he had had an extensive background of problems with pederasty. I wrote to Karski suggesting that the SS officer was trying to seduce him. Karski replied that "I seemed to have a deep knowledge". As for the occult. I too have read those books. I did an extensive study of the Holocaust and in arguing with some of the Holocaust deniers I finally came to the realization that they were not merely arguing over facts and interpretation, but rather that they were coming from a deep spiritual attachment to Hitler. This was evidenced to me by one who finally admitted that the Holocaust may have happened, but that Hitler did not know about it. This, of course, is ridiculous. But it did seem to indicate a strong belief in Hitler going far beyond anything explainable from a rational point. After reading the connections between Hitler and the occult, I began to think that this whole thing was more explainable on a spiritual level. I had never believed much in demon possession, but it began to be more understandable to me after these studies. YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Colleen Jones wrote: Now is has been a long time since I read the above book (1980 about) and hear Wagner's ring. I still have my copy, I believe, if you want me to look anything up... I know my local library still has it, since I noticed it on the shelf a few weeks ago... An even more interesting book (which I haven't been able to finish) goes by the title of Fire and Ice, I believegoes into the history of the occult movements which were going strong in Germany in general, and Vienna in particular, in the 19th and early 20th century, and how such societies had an influence on Hitler, and eventually the whole Nazi party. People have been waiting for the Messiah's return now for nearly 2,000 years; Ignoring the fact that: a) 2000 years ago, they were on a totally different calendar than we are now, and b) the Bible states that no one knows the time that Jesus will return, that it does NOT go by any one date; it only states that the discerning will recognize certain signs, which it describes in Daniel and Revelations, amongst other books... some believe he will be reincarnated, Which is not scripturally supported... So, I think we have another thousand years to gotwo thousand years is a long time to wait on anyone, but when he descends, allegedly his heel will hit the top of a mountainbook called Footsteps of Orpheus stated there are people drilling at the foot of this mountain now Perhaps you can point out the actual passages of SCRIPTURE which purport to make these claims? Such is lifeHitler thrived on Nazi Marching bands, not Wagner. Wagner was his favorite composer, and he not only attended performance of
Re: [CTRL] Info on 'Spear of Destiny'
-Caveat Lector- Colleen Jones wrote: Hitler, gave the people Wagner; this is wht put them to sleep; after watching the Ring he knew he could not be a martyer; but as did we, with propaganda music, we used to send our boys to war on a songthat does not go over any more as pepole are too sophisticated. Hitler gave the German people Wagner? Wagner had his own theater in Bayreut (sp?) long before Hitler was even born. His music was played all over the world. There was a reaction against Wagner's music among French composers in the late 1890s. The Metropolitan Opera of New York had a whole group of singers devoted to nothing but singing Wagner's operas before the turn of the century. To say that Hitler gave the people Wagner is non-sense. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] American UN Official Gang-Raped in S. Africa]
-Caveat Lector- Robert Tatman wrote: I'm not trying to justify this behavior, which is clearly beyond the pale of any sort of civilized conduct. But has it occurred to anyone that when the ANC took power in South Africa, its supporters had the not unreasonable expectation that they would share in the wealth so egregiously displayed by the country's ruling class? I know that a lot of the crime is directly attributable to the culture of lawlessness and rebellion bred into an entire generation of black South Africans. All I am suggesting is that if the universally lionized Nelson Mandela had used his very considerable personal charisma to validate a true redistribution of economic resources, instead of focussing on electoral politics and his own lovelife, much of the crime and violence could have been avoided. Crime is, no matter where it takes place, in the final analysis a political act, and political courage is required to deal with it. In other words, have the goods stolen by the government and redistributed? That was certainly what was expected of Mandela by many, both white and black. But then who would run things? Look what happened to Mozambique after that was done. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Can any verify this?
-Caveat Lector- "Hilary A. Thomas" wrote: -Caveat Lector- Hello all, I just came across some information. Can any verify this? Comments? "Executive Orders are for selling and purchasing of land. And nothing else, in fact there is NO Constitutional Amendment to create an EO. And until there is these EOs are NULL VOID!!!" My understanding of executive orders is that there are only two basis for them in the Constitution. One would be as per your example and other orders within government. For instance, Truman's order to integrate the military, etc. The other possibility for executive orders is when the country is in a state of emergence. There are two theories as to how these possible situations apply to the people at this time. First, in the case of executive orders only applying within the government. It is thought by some that by voluntarily obtaining a social security account, one becomes a part of the government and thus can be effected by executive orders. As to the second situation. Some argue that Roosevelt emergency declaration of March, 1933 (under which he ordered the banks closed and the confiscation of American's gold) has never been ended and thus we are still under emergency rule and thus ruled by executive order. Under the later theory, we are really under a dictatorship and the Congress' purpose is limited to setting policy, though it can be over ruled by the president. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Can any verify this?
-Caveat Lector- Colleen Jones wrote: -Caveat Lector- JFK according to Jim Marrs.had on his desk a signed Executive Action Order which would have caused the Federal Reserve System to shudder - it was alleged when his father was told by his son what he was going to do, his father said "They will kill youthey will never let you do that"..and they did.the day he signed this order, he was on his way to Dallas. I had a friend once who claimed to have been a Navy Seal in 1963 assigned to Kennedy as a body guard. He said that he was with him in Florida visiting Joe Kennedy and the argument quoted from above. He said that he was shipped off to Vietnam the next day. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Cold War Is Back, With Nuclear Threat
-Caveat Lector- Nicola Tesla, the inventor of the alternating current generator and motor (upon which our present civilization is based), claimed to have invented a "death ray". It sounded suspiciously like some sort of particle beam accelerator which he claimed would protect any country from invasion. Most thought he was a crackpot and his later writings were ignored. However, all his writings were confiscated by the US government in 1943 when he died. Some may never have been released to his relatives (who incidentally were Serbians, they went to a museum in Belgrade). However, in thinking about this possible weapon, I realized that it may not be to the advantage of some to have such a weapon available to all countries. It certainly would make things difficult for NATO right now. So, it seems to me that it may be quite possible that such a weapon has already been invented, but that it is under wraps. Howard Davis Jim Yester wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 4/15/99 12:36:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Reagan alluded that Star Wars might be used to protect us from other-worldy enemies. We'll be nuked long before an effective system can be developed to prevent it -- even if it had been fully funded in the '80's. I don't think we have the ability to develop and effective missile defense system. It's just throwing good money after bad, feeding the hungry military-industrial complex. Why the "left" (misnomer) is supporting it now is beyond me, and I'm *one of them*. Samm Reagan alluded to the possibility of alien invaders, but I don't recall that being connected with SDI. Do you have the quote? You are correct that left is a misnomer. I've said for some time now that left, right, liberal, and conservative are passe terms, because they no longer clearly define anything. I prefer counting myself among the "common sense" faction, and sometimes that's left and sometimes it's right. You make some other logical points, among them that you can't trust the military-industrial complex to spend the money properly, and that it's probably too late anyway. However, Reagan also made a logical point that I agree with: The best deterrent to war is a strong and powerful military. It is also logical to conclude that if there is a threat, it is suicidal not to do what ever is possible to defend yourself. All in all, a catch-22 I guess. Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Info on 'Spear of Destiny'
-Caveat Lector- Colleen Jones wrote: -Caveat Lector- Get the album - rather expensive, get it, tape it, and return itThe Ring - Wagners Ring..the beautiful Tannhauser, and the ride of the Valkyreis; now my spelling is off here..this beautiful music is always reserved for the super rich, while our children are fed garbage. occasionally public services shows part of it, but the movie Meeting Venus shows the traumatic effect the works of Richard Wagner had on the people of Germanyto me it is probably the most beautiful creation in this history of music; however, I do like offenbach's Orpheus in the Underworld..Offenbach, was a Russian jew, who wrote the French Can Can. In the works of Richrd Wagner, one sees beauty and power and well, get the album. Just ran across a couple of Wagner jokes that I thought might be of interest. I have seen a movie of Parsifal and have listened to it many times on records and CDs. It is one of my favorites, but I know that many don't enjoy his work as much as I. Also, I might mention that I once heard his granddaughter speak. This was about 30 years ago and she was fairly old at the time. I think her name was Winnefred. She spoke of the relationship of her grandfather's music to the Nazis and how much of her family had supported Hitler. She, however, said that she thought that the "Ring" was symbolic of the Nazis in that at the end greed destroyed the gods. In fact, the last music the Berlin Philharmonic played at the end of WW2 was from the "Twilight of the Gods". "Parsifal - the kind of opera that starts at six o'clock and after it has been going three hours, you look at your watch and it says 6:20." -- David Randolph "One can't judge Wagner's opera Lohengrin after a first hearing, and I certainly don't intend hearing it a second time." -- Gioacchino Rossini librarys have it tooyou could traumatize as nation with music such as this. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [16] Mellon's Millions
-Caveat Lector- Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- an excerpt from: Mellon's Millions Harvey O'Conner©1933 Blue Ribbon Books New York, N.Y. --[16]-- 16 The Crash On October 15, 1929, Irving Fisher, Yale business wizard, declared that stock prices have reached "what looks like a permanently high plateau." He pooh-poohed Rival Roger Babson's prediction of a 50-60 point drop in the near future. Then the walls came tumbling down. snip The House turned to the tariff. Partly to strafe the foreigners who had brought on the crisis, partly to increase revenue, partly to revive employment in domestic factories, rates were jacked up. Secretary Mellon lacked confidence in any of these announced ends of the Smoot-Hawley tariff. Hoover wobbled and then signed the bill, and asked his Chancellor to reassure business. Mellon damned the new tariff with faint praise. At least, he said, the enactment of the law removed uncertainty which had prevailed for fifteen months over its provisions. This is misleading, though if you study it carefully you will see hints of the truth. Notice the last sentence. It says "the enactment of the law removed uncertainty which had prevailed for fifteen months over its provisions. Does this mean that there was certainty that it would pass or what precisely would be the provisions? According to Jude Wanniski (www.polyconomics.com), the Smoot-Hawley tariff bill passed by a large margin the committee it was assigned. It was a near certainty that it would pass at that point. That was within days prior to the stock market crash. WAnniski attributes the crash to the anticipation of this tremendous increase in tariff rates and the realization that this would start a major trade war with decreasing profits resulting and thus a fall in stock values. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [MC] Beatles,Rock Roll and Mind Control: The Aquarian Conspiracy
-Caveat Lector- I once was at a meeting where Coleman's book "The Committee of 300" was for sale. I opened it up and read that Dean Rusk was the head of the State Department at the beginning of the Korean War and that it was his fault, etc. I, of course, realized the guy must have meant Dean Acheson (sp?). Then I flipped to another page which had the info on the Beatles. I don't remember him saying that Adorno wrote all this music, etc. but it did say that the Beatles music was "atonal". I was trained in music and I know atonal music. No music by the Beatles that I know of was atonal. Atonal means without a tonal center. The beatles music had a clear tonal center. In fact, one might complain that it was "too tonal". That is, it so centered on one key that some might find it boring for that reason. Gershwin's music would be more accurately described as atonal since he changed keys very often (though his music is not atonal either). So, Coleman was batting 0 for 2. I moved on. Howard Davis Mack White wrote: -Caveat Lector- A few choice quotes from Dr. John Coleman: Following the Beatles, who incidentally were put together by the Tavistock Institute, came other "Made in England" rock groups, who, like the Beatles, had Theo Adorno write their cult lyrics and compose all the "music." I hate to use these beautiful words in the context of This is an astounding revelation. Theo Adorno, all by himself, wrote the music, not only for the Beatles, but for the ENTIRE British Invasion. My god, it wouldn't surprise me to learn he also wrote the music for Buddy Holly and all the Beatles' other "influences." For this feat, Adorno should be immediately inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The man's genius has been greatly underestimated. But what really gets me is, not only did Lennon and McCartney take credit for all Adorno's compositions, they didn't have the COMMON COURTESY to put him on the cover of Sgt. Pepper. Without massive media hype, and without almost around the clock coverage, the hippie-beatnik rock, drug cult would never have gotten off the ground; it would have remained a localized oddity. The Beatles, with their twanging guitars, silly expressions, drug language and weird The "silly expressions" is probably the most sinister aspect of this Tavistockian plot. Just think what the world would be like today had it not been for those silly expressions. But seriously: Prior to reading the above-quoted piece, I had an open mind towards Coleman's theories re Tavistock, Adorno, the Beatles, etc. However, now that I have actually read his Beatles/Adorno theory in his own words, I must say his stock has greatly plummeted. The man is a cretin. Mack White [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.swankarmy.net/dutch5/comixnow/ P.O. Box 49575 Austin, TX 78765 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to
Re: [CTRL] THE ENEMY WITHIN!
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: So, is he a Rightist Socialist? Long ago, in his book, "The Decline of the West", Oswald Spengler wrote that socialism was a method used by the elite to dupe the masses. He showed how it had been used throughout history, usually during the decline of a civilization as a means for the elite to control and pacify. Clinton is just another in a long line of puppets used by the elite for their own ends. Certainly he got money from the "capitalists". They are the greatest enemies of free markets. Once wealth has been accumulated then the problem becomes holding on to it. You can lose your shirt in a free market. A command economy is much preferred by the elite, as long as they do the commanding. Howard Davis I totally agree. I believe Spengler became a Nazi. I think that you are incorrect about Spengler, though I may be incorrect. My understanding is that he opposed the Weimer government (which may be why it was assumed he favored the Nazis). If I remember correctly, what I read of him in his later days was that he favored a return of the Kaiser, but I may be incorrect about this. I once almost bought a book of his letters from a used book store. I went back a few weeks later and the book was gone. Sorry I missed it, might have helped with this question. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THE ENEMY WITHIN!
-Caveat Lector-
nurev wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
"Peter L. Sroufe" wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
Members of the Progressive Caucus:
http://www.dsausa.org/dsa/dsa/dsa/dsa/dsa/dsa/pc/pc.members.html
Now you know who to remove from Congress so we can commence to Restore our
Constitutional Republic.
Also, let's make damn sure we don't add anymore of their kind.
("ONLY IN AMERICA - can a veteran live in a cardboard box, while a
draft-dodger lives in our White House".)
Shame on the Leftist Socialist Liberal DemocRats for burdening us with this
criminal.
Bard
You are a fool if you think Clinton is a Leftist Socialist.
So, is he a Rightist Socialist? Long ago, in his book, "The Decline of
the West", Oswald Spengler wrote that socialism was a method used by the
elite to dupe the masses. He showed how it had been used throughout
history, usually during the decline of a civilization as a means for the
elite to control and pacify. Clinton is just another in a long line of
puppets used by the elite for their own ends. Certainly he got money
from the "capitalists". They are the greatest enemies of free markets.
Once wealth has been accumulated then the problem becomes holding on to
it. You can lose your shirt in a free market. A command economy is much
preferred by the elite, as long as they do the commanding.
Howard Davis
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] Homosexuals in the Military:ORHomosexual, ...]
-Caveat Lector- Scott Brown wrote: You are failing to see the point here, and that point is this: By harboring the same ignorant beliefs as the person or persons who commit the acts, you are thereby providing an environment where the actions taken are considered acceptable. And if a person can prevent the acts but does not, they are responsible for complying in that act--an accomplice as it were. Your mindset on this issue (unfortunately shared by many) is part of the reason this world is in the sad state that it's in. Because throughout history many people have stood by and allowed others to perpretrate actions and deeds while doing nothing to prevent them--whether they felt the same as those committing the acts or not, they are responsible for the results of those acts. Hopefully one day you will understand and can be part of the solution. I was going to pass this one by, but then I would be part of the problem wouldn't I? To say that someone is responsible for an action which he neither advocates nor participates in, is rediculous. There are actions being taken all over the world. How can anyone take actions to stop all of them? This is obvious. But you protest: "I mean local actions"? Which of these? And if I don't watch the news am I not responsible for stopping the actions reported there? This gets rediculous very quickly. Then there is the question of the actions that redeem one. Does writing your Congressman fulfill your obligation or must one run for office, etc? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Treason in America
-Caveat Lector- Lyn McCloskey wrote: -Caveat Lector- Kris is right... Larouche is no saint but he does have a lot of very good information from time to time. I'll bet even Clinton will tell the truth occasionally if it meets his immediate needs. Larouche's EIR magazine (Executive Intelligence Review) did an outstanding analysis on the ozone hole scare a few years ago. BTW I have an autographed copy of the Treason in America book... Chaitkin wrote, "Good luck for an honest career in journalism." :) - Lynda In a message dated 4/7/99 10:10:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This appears to be a front for Larouche. Am I wrong? Chaitkan has written for Larouchian publications. But that doesn't invalidate his research and leads. I found Treason in America to be a very interesting book and well source, so one can follow-up and study for oneself. If its dis/mis, there is still much to learn. I agree. I have found much Larouche's stuff very interesting and informative. I just like to know that it is his. It is also interesting that I recognized the Larouche connection fairly quickly. They seem to have certain phrases or thought patterns which are very recognizable. I was once talking to a guy who was about the same age as Larouche. This was maybe twenty years ago. Anyway, we were talking about music and he mentioned that he liked the "crystalline structure" of Bach's music. That phrase seemed to be something I would hear from a LaRouche, so I asked him if he had ever heard of him. It turned out that he had been a fellow member of some Communist group in NY city with LaRouche in the 50s. He then went into a long harangue against him. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: THE SCOOP: CNN's Kosovo Identity Crisis (what really happened)
-Caveat Lector- Well, I played soccer today with the guy I mentioned as being from Croatia and and editor for CNN. He told me what happened. He was off at the time the Serbian news broadcast about the US prisoners was received in Atlanta. No one working in Atlanta knew how to read the Cyrillic so they first got in touch with Voice of America. They then called him up (after about 2 hours) and got him to confirm what they had told them. Howard Davis "Howard R. Davis III" wrote: -Caveat Lector- Kris Millegan wrote: Subject: THE SCOOP: CNN's Kosovo Identity Crisis Date: 5 Apr 1999 02:55:37 - From: The Scoop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Scoop - http://www.bobharris.com/ To new subscribers: thanks for joining up. Yes, the column really is free, and you're encouraged to forward it to friends. That's how our readership grows. If you've just joined up from some exotic locale because you heard my rants on Armed Forces Radio (see below), please drop a line and say howdy. In the last week, we've heard from Bahrain and Spain. Whether they were mainly on the plain they didn't say. Thanks! bh THE SCOOP for April 5, 1999 ___ CNN's Kosovo Identity Crisis also: Bob Dole, Sex Criminal © 1999 Bob Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] [] = italics So my big sister calls me this week. My sister is a major bonus. Great sense of humor. Heart oversized like movie popcorn. And really, really smart. Anybody who doesn't like my sister has no business being on this planet. Sis calls me up because she's trying to be a good citizen and has therefore watched hours of TV news reports about the Crisis In Kosovo. Big sis has endured dozens of furrowed brows, scores of scary pictures, and hours of flashy graphics. CNN's special Kosovo theme music churns like a bellicose jingle in her head. And sis calls because after days of Fox and MSNBC telling her what just blew up, she still doesn't quite follow how exactly the whole mess really started, how it might best end, or what to think about it in any case, other than it's obviously really bad. Just like most Americans. Including the ones in Washington. My sister's one of the smartest people I know. Her only mistake was in believing, as most of us have been trained to believe since birth, that TV is a good way to learn about a subject in depth. It is not. TV is a good way to learn about which subjects are on fire. Here's how mindless Kosovo coverage can be: You remember when the news came in last Wednesday that three U.S. servicemen had been captured by the Serbs. Soon, CNN showed Serbian videotape of the prisoners. CNN also reported that the three captured servicemen had not yet been identified. CNN's anchors repeated this several dozen times for over two hours, often as the Serbian video was playing on the air. Hello? The names of all three servicemen were [right there on the videotape] -- in Serbian, granted, but in HUGE OBVIOUS PRINT -- directly under the faces of each soldier as they were shown individually. Duh. Figuring this out was hardly a stretch. Serbian is phonetic, albeit with Cyrillic characters. Any speaker of Russian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Macedonian, or several other Slavic languages could read the names instantly. I speak maybe thirty or forty words in all those languages combined, and even I could read the prisoners' names easily. Evidently, during a state of war with Serbia, there's not a single person at supposedly the world's leading TV news outlet who speaks Serbian. Or Russian. Or any Slavic language. Would CNN have covered World War II without anyone on staff who could translate [Mein Kampf]? Is it possible that the classy news joint that brings us Bob Novak, Al Hunt, and John Sununu doesn't employ a single person who at least knows enough to realize all that fancy writing probably means something? Or even owns a freaking dictionary with which to transliterate a freeze frame? OK. Maybe that's asking too much. Fine. But how about this: the soldiers' surnames were also plainly visible in the videotape -- and in [English] -- above the right shirt pocket of their uniforms. And the TV anchors, who are presumably neither blind nor stupid although I'm learning to keep an open mind, prattled over and over that they had no information as to the men's identities. I know a guy who works at CNN in Atlanta as an editor. He's from Croatia. Yes, I am sure they could figure out the names. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspir
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: THE SCOOP: CNN's Kosovo Identity Crisis
-Caveat Lector- Kris Millegan wrote: Subject: THE SCOOP: CNN's Kosovo Identity Crisis Date: 5 Apr 1999 02:55:37 - From: The Scoop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Scoop - http://www.bobharris.com/ To new subscribers: thanks for joining up. Yes, the column really is free, and you're encouraged to forward it to friends. That's how our readership grows. If you've just joined up from some exotic locale because you heard my rants on Armed Forces Radio (see below), please drop a line and say howdy. In the last week, we've heard from Bahrain and Spain. Whether they were mainly on the plain they didn't say. Thanks! bh THE SCOOP for April 5, 1999 ___ CNN's Kosovo Identity Crisis also: Bob Dole, Sex Criminal © 1999 Bob Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] [] = italics So my big sister calls me this week. My sister is a major bonus. Great sense of humor. Heart oversized like movie popcorn. And really, really smart. Anybody who doesn't like my sister has no business being on this planet. Sis calls me up because she's trying to be a good citizen and has therefore watched hours of TV news reports about the Crisis In Kosovo. Big sis has endured dozens of furrowed brows, scores of scary pictures, and hours of flashy graphics. CNN's special Kosovo theme music churns like a bellicose jingle in her head. And sis calls because after days of Fox and MSNBC telling her what just blew up, she still doesn't quite follow how exactly the whole mess really started, how it might best end, or what to think about it in any case, other than it's obviously really bad. Just like most Americans. Including the ones in Washington. My sister's one of the smartest people I know. Her only mistake was in believing, as most of us have been trained to believe since birth, that TV is a good way to learn about a subject in depth. It is not. TV is a good way to learn about which subjects are on fire. Here's how mindless Kosovo coverage can be: You remember when the news came in last Wednesday that three U.S. servicemen had been captured by the Serbs. Soon, CNN showed Serbian videotape of the prisoners. CNN also reported that the three captured servicemen had not yet been identified. CNN's anchors repeated this several dozen times for over two hours, often as the Serbian video was playing on the air. Hello? The names of all three servicemen were [right there on the videotape] -- in Serbian, granted, but in HUGE OBVIOUS PRINT -- directly under the faces of each soldier as they were shown individually. Duh. Figuring this out was hardly a stretch. Serbian is phonetic, albeit with Cyrillic characters. Any speaker of Russian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Macedonian, or several other Slavic languages could read the names instantly. I speak maybe thirty or forty words in all those languages combined, and even I could read the prisoners' names easily. Evidently, during a state of war with Serbia, there's not a single person at supposedly the world's leading TV news outlet who speaks Serbian. Or Russian. Or any Slavic language. Would CNN have covered World War II without anyone on staff who could translate [Mein Kampf]? Is it possible that the classy news joint that brings us Bob Novak, Al Hunt, and John Sununu doesn't employ a single person who at least knows enough to realize all that fancy writing probably means something? Or even owns a freaking dictionary with which to transliterate a freeze frame? OK. Maybe that's asking too much. Fine. But how about this: the soldiers' surnames were also plainly visible in the videotape -- and in [English] -- above the right shirt pocket of their uniforms. And the TV anchors, who are presumably neither blind nor stupid although I'm learning to keep an open mind, prattled over and over that they had no information as to the men's identities. I know a guy who works at CNN in Atlanta as an editor. He's from Croatia. Yes, I am sure they could figure out the names. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [CTRL] Clinton bombs Christians during Holy Week ?
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: -Caveat Lector- I'm still trying to find out if "Holy Week" for the Serbs is the same as for us. What do you mean " us" Kimosabe. It is not for the Greeks, and they are orthodox catholics just like the Serbs. Prudy Next Sunday is Orthodox Easter. The Greeks are not orthodox catholics. They are not any kind of catholics at all they are Byzantine Christians. It's the Croats who are fanatical Catholics. I wouldn't rush to claim that bunch if I were a Catholic. According to a friend of mine, last Monday's issue of the New York Times had an article about Kosovo in which it stated that the majority of the KLA fighters were Catholic. Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] the meaning of the word socialist
-Caveat Lector- I did not ask for you to expound on your "Games Hypothesis". I asked you for your definition of the word "socialism" since you have disagreed with that given the word by others (though you did not specify what their definition was or how it differs from yours). If you can't do so, or do not wish to, please just say so. Howard Davis Ric Carter wrote: -Caveat Lector- - Original Message ----- From: Howard R. Davis III [EMAIL PROTECTED] So what IS your definition of "socialism"? There does not seem to be a clear definition in the web site mentioned and there is none that I can find in the following two messages. As with all human Games, religious/political/economic/artistic belief- systems, 'socialism' means whatever the speaker WISHES it to mean. All such Games are inaugurated and manipulated by Game Masters, who create and promulgate Game Rules that define the realm and content of Play in that Game. [And Games tend to fragment into competing and mutually- exclusive sub-Games, but that's another point...] For instance: All men are created equal. [Game Rule of Jeffersonian Democracy] All men and women are equal. [Game Rule of Liberal Democracy] All entities are equal. [Buddhist, Radical Environmentalist rule] So, every sub-Game in Political/Economic arenas will establish one or more Rules defining Socialism for the purpose of Play [activity and discourse] within that sub-Game. That no group of Game factions can agree on their definitions is irrelevant; Stalinists, Maoists, Nazis, Libertarians, LaRouchers, Militiamen are all Playing separate Games, with only minimal RealWorld connexion - usually as their Players are merrily slaughtering each other. That's what humans do... I'll expound more on my Games Hypothesis in future posts. Ciao --Ric DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Kevorkian News
-Caveat Lector- Thank you for the clarification on this. It is very interesting that that translation says "kill". This is especially interesting since in many other parts of the old testament the Israelites are admonished to "kill" certain other peoples. In fact, in one instance that I seem to recall they are ordered to "kill" all the members of a certain tribe and get in trouble for enslaving them instead. Or, there is the stoning of those caught in adultery. In a couple of weeks I will be meeting with a man who has studied the old testament in depth and I will ask him for clarification on this. It should be interesting. Howard Davis Bill Richer wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 3/28/99 11:33:37 PM GMT-5:00 - United States of A, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I you sure that the above is correct? I thought it was "thou shallt not murder". Am I wrong about this? And is is! By this do you mean to suggest that murder and kill are the same thing? Howard Davis Douay-Rheims Bible Exodus Chap 20 The ten commandments. 1 And the Lord spoke all these words: 2 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them. I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain. 8 Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. 10 But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast nor the stranger that is within thy gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it. 12 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be long-lived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house: neither shalt thou desire his wife, nor his servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his. 18 And all the people saw the voices and the flames, and the sound of the trumpet, and the mount smoking: and being terrified and struck with fear, they stood afar off, 19 Saying to Moses: Speak thou to us, and we will hear. Let not the Lord speak to us, lest we die. 20 And Moses said to the people: Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that the dread of him might be in you, and you should not sin. 21 And the people stood afar off. But Moses went to the dark cloud wherein God was. 22 And the Lord said to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: You have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven. 23 You shall not make gods of silver: nor shall you make to yourselves gods of gold. 24 You shall make an altar of earth unto me: and you shall offer upon it your holocausts and peace offerings, your sheep and oxen, in every place where the memory of my name shall be. I will come to thee, and will bless thee. 25 And if thou make an altar of stone unto me, thou shalt not build it of hewn stones: for if thou lift up a tool upon it, it shall be defiled. 26 Thou shalt not go up by steps unto my altar, lest thy nakedness be discovered. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [CTRL] Kevorkian News
-Caveat Lector- Bill Richer wrote: God is all good, all love, but He is the judge at death time! He didn't give Ten Commandments for nothing! He said thou shalt not kill, its as simple as that! God Bless Bill I you sure that the above is correct? I thought it was "thou shallt not murder". Am I wrong about this? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Kevorkian News
-Caveat Lector- Bill Richer wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 3/28/99 8:28:22 PM GMT-5:00 - United States of Am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I you sure that the above is correct? I thought it was "thou shallt not murder". Am I wrong about this? And is is! By this do you mean to suggest that murder and kill are the same thing? Howard Davis DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
