Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
I think people are influenced as much as they allow. The assumptions here are that people are rational and have an unlimited length of time to analyze their decisions. Trouble is that both assumptions are incorrect. We, people, are mostly unaware of our goals, attitudes, drives and the subtle ways those goals, attitudes and desires can be affected. It is physically impossible to be constantly aware of all motivations, which shape our decisions. For instance, I will not be swayed to buy Rolex, when I see ads for the watch. However the real goal of those commercials in mass distribution media is not to make people to buy them en mass (masses cannot afford Rolexes), but rather to inform the common folks that the owners of those goods are displaying higher fitness indicators; to affect our attitude towards the owners (and to let the owners know that the folks are informed what Rolex is)*. Can I resist this influence? Somewhat; but hardly, unless I understand the purpose of these ads. Is it ethical to influence uninformed people? We don't have a choice really -- people, including us, interaction designers, will always remain somewhat uninformed (it is physically impossible etc. - see above). Is it possible to avoid influencing? Not unless you relocate into a black hole -- that would make for a very lonely, if brief, life though. -- Oleh Kovalchuke Interaction Design is design of time http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm * More information on various fitness indicators and the ways they influence us in Spent by Geoffrey Miller: http://tinyurl.com/luadnc On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Jennifer R Vignone jennifer.r.vign...@jpmorgan.com wrote: Influence and coerce are different in that coerce has the notion of force associated with its meaning. Advertising may influence but I don't think it coerces. Would you fall into submission so easily to a commercial? What is maximum persuasion? I think people are influenced as much as they allow. Persuade implies using an argument or reasoning, hopefully backed by fact, which is not necessarily influence or coercion. There are usability issues with how words are being switched which confounds this discussion. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Here is an example. of sales and influence. You have millions of people who cannot afford to buy a house. They just can't. No money. They should save and wait until they really can afford to even consider it. But the mortgage business says, yes you can. Don't worry about it. It will be fine and we will give you the money to get that dream home. And guess what. People did. They saw their bank accounts and they could have done the math, but they wanted something and went with it. They were indeed lied to. But in addition to real estate people's pressure and influence, they convinced and influenced themselves as well. And many unfortunate people now have a terrible problem. I don't think that I am saying that people have an unlimited length of time to analyze their each and every decision. But I do think they balance a decision in some way like, I can't afford a Rolex, so I won't get one. It takes less than a second to reason that, but in that statement it is shown that a person saw/heard an ad, thought about it and realized not for me. Even if you tell people not to be influenced, you are trying to influence them. We're interactive and social beings and respond to emotional, mental, and physical triggers constantly. But should people perhaps consider their decisions more carefully? Yes. Could they benefit from being more self-aware, self-confident, and independent in their thinking? Yes. Isn't that what this type of work is ultimately about: to enable users to find their way through some sort of interface (consider faith/religion and life itself) to make an informed decision? Yes. From: Oleh Kovalchuke [mailto:tangospr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:51 PM To: Jennifer R Vignone Cc: disc...@ixda.org Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD. I think people are influenced as much as they allow. The assumptions here are that people are rational and have an unlimited length of time to analyze their decisions. Trouble is that both assumptions are incorrect. We, people, are mostly unaware of our goals, attitudes, drives and the subtle ways those goals, attitudes and desires can be affected. It is physically impossible to be constantly aware of all motivations, which shape our decisions. For instance, I will not be swayed to buy Rolex, when I see ads for the watch. However the real goal of those commercials in mass distribution media is not to make people to buy them en mass (masses cannot afford Rolexes), but rather to inform the common folks that the owners of those goods are displaying higher fitness indicators; to affect our attitude towards the owners (and to let the owners know that the folks are informed what Rolex is)*. Can I resist this influence? Somewhat; but hardly, unless I understand the purpose of these ads. Is it ethical to influence uninformed people? We don't have a choice really -- people, including us, interaction designers, will always remain somewhat uninformed (it is physically impossible etc. - see above). Is it possible to avoid influencing? Not unless you relocate into a black hole -- that would make for a very lonely, if brief, life though. -- Oleh Kovalchuke Interaction Design is design of time http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm * More information on various fitness indicators and the ways they influence us in Spent by Geoffrey Miller: http://tinyurl.com/luadnc On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Jennifer R Vignone jennifer.r.vign...@jpmorgan.commailto:jennifer.r.vign...@jpmorgan.com wrote: Influence and coerce are different in that coerce has the notion of force associated with its meaning. Advertising may influence but I don't think it coerces. Would you fall into submission so easily to a commercial? What is maximum persuasion? I think people are influenced as much as they allow. Persuade implies using an argument or reasoning, hopefully backed by fact, which is not necessarily influence or coercion. There are usability issues with how words are being switched which confounds this discussion. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.orgmailto:disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.orgmailto:disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Brad Nunnally wrote: Control is simply the absence of that choice. I always use supermarkets in the US as an example of controlling their customers behavior. On average, the most common thing people want when going to a supermarket is milk. The managers know this, and put it as far away as possible from the entrance, forcing customer to walk past other products. Customer just don't have the choice to by-pass other products, and their path is controlled by the store (to a certain extent). Supermarkets are a wonderful place to find this sort of thing. My favorite example is the on sale, limit N sign. Marketing types figured out that if the store puts a big on sale, limit N sign over something instead of a on sale sign, customers are more likely to buy N items than just one or two items. Is that simply good marketing or is it an unethical attempt to get people to do something they wouldn't normally do? -- J. Eric Townsend, IDSA Designer, Fabricator, Hacker design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Hi Jared, Thanks for the kind wishes! I read that to mean that you equated direct control to influencing behavior. When you get a chance, can you explain the difference? To be honest this is a gray line, but here are my thoughts. When you influence someone's behavior there is always the choice available to do the unexpected, or undesirable. You can place the up selling section in the most optimal position on an e-commerce site, but the customer can always choose to ignore it. Control is simply the absence of that choice. I always use supermarkets in the US as an example of controlling their customers behavior. On average, the most common thing people want when going to a supermarket is milk. The managers know this, and put it as far away as possible from the entrance, forcing customer to walk past other products. Customer just don't have the choice to by-pass other products, and their path is controlled by the store (to a certain extent). Can you give an example of when designers take that choice away? I'm still not seeing the difference clearly to understand what the debate is The one off the top of my head is the above supermarket one. Another would be what Sony did a few years with the Rootkit scandal. Someone made the decision to have this get installed on customer's computers without letting them know about it or opting in or out of its installation. There was no influencing going on here, just wrong doing(in my opinion) Thanks! Brad On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:44 AM, Jared Spool jsp...@uie.com wrote: On Jul 29, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Brad Nunnally wrote: Sorry for my lack if responses, currently adjusting to my new life as a father and learning how to manage my time. I gave been following, just not able to respond as much as I wish. Perfectly reasonable choice. Family stuff trumps IxDA discussion list participation in my book anytime. Congrats to everyone! I don't see any moral issues when it comes to influencing a persons behavior. Simple because at the end of the day the person can always choose to do something different. In the Johnny Holland article, you said: It appears that we have painted ourselves into a corner. Having direct control over another person’s behavior is wrong, as they did with the watchclock. But, we can’t help influencing a person’s behavior with the interactions we design. I read that to mean that you equated direct control to influencing behavior. When you get a chance, can you explain the difference? It is when we as designers take that choice away I see an issue. The real debate defing the line that seperates influence and control and what types of influence seem to push the envelope on right or wrong. Can you give an example of when designers take that choice away? I'm still not seeing the difference clearly to understand what the debate is. Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: @jmspool Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
My opinion is that Interaction Design doesn't influence or manipulate behavior it facilitates it; simplifies it. Read my full opinon here: http://thesalon.blogspot.com/search?q=bokardo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
On Jul 29, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Brad Nunnally wrote: Sorry for my lack if responses, currently adjusting to my new life as a father and learning how to manage my time. I gave been following, just not able to respond as much as I wish. Perfectly reasonable choice. Family stuff trumps IxDA discussion list participation in my book anytime. Congrats to everyone! I don't see any moral issues when it comes to influencing a persons behavior. Simple because at the end of the day the person can always choose to do something different. In the Johnny Holland article, you said: It appears that we have painted ourselves into a corner. Having direct control over another person’s behavior is wrong, as they did with the watchclock. But, we can’t help influencing a person’s behavior with the interactions we design. I read that to mean that you equated direct control to influencing behavior. When you get a chance, can you explain the difference? It is when we as designers take that choice away I see an issue. The real debate defing the line that seperates influence and control and what types of influence seem to push the envelope on right or wrong. Can you give an example of when designers take that choice away? I'm still not seeing the difference clearly to understand what the debate is. Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: @jmspool Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
On Jul 29, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Jon Karpoff wrote: One ethical consideration I run into often is a client wanting the marketing email option defaulted to opt-in. Typically these options are buried at the bottom of the page, below the fold and buried in fine print. I always push for either opt-out as the default, or no default value at all. Is this ethics? In instances when I've tested sites with defaulted opt-in marketing options, most users react by complaining that the company thinks they are dumb enough to leave it checked. (Some users, for some brands, are happy to have the choice.) Those who accidentally leave it checked indicate they feel that the organization doesn't really care about them. They show anger and frustration. In the end, defaulting to opt-in marketing reduces brand engagement and diminishes the organization's reputation. But is it unethical? What harm has been done, beyond the reputation of the organization? Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: @jmspool Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD
Fascinating discussion. Let me share something that I do believe is truly unethical. I've been talking with the webmaster for several porn sites to learn more about streaming video. She (yes, she) told me a creepy story about how one site coerces new subscribers to submit to the recurring monthly charge rather than the one-time-only three-day sample period. In other words, rather than paying a one-time fee of USD 9.95, your credit card gets billed USD 29.95 each and every month. Here's how the scam works. On the sign-up form, you check which payment period you want. There is a really goofy field on the form that is almost always filled out wrong. For ethical reasons, I'm not going to go into details. But surely you are all clever enough to design a bad form of your own.:-) When you submit the form, it points out your error. What most people miss is that the checkbox for payment period has been reset. So folks correct the highlighted error and submit - but without reviewing their data. The site sends a confirmation e-mail where the amended payment period information is innocuously mentioned. That means when you complain, the company can refer to their original confirmation e-mail - If there are any errors in your order, please report them to us within the next 24 hours. Virtually no one notices the error - they're too busy looking at tits and ass. So, the company has suckered 29.95 out of people instead of 9.95. And apparently most people don't react until the second month is well underway. The funny thing is, I regularly run into dumb forms that reset things when I need to correct an entry. Since money is rarely involved, I just get irritated. But in generic terms, this is almost the same thing. For example, try registering for the German social networking site www.mixxt.net http://www.mixxt.net/ . It's really easy to make errors and some stuff gets reset, if I remember correctly. Conclusion: as the guardians of user-experience design, we have an obligation to protect users. Cheers, Eric --- Eric Reiss CEO The FatDUX Group Copenhagen, Denmark http://www.fatdux.com office: (+45) 39 29 67 77 mobile: (+45) 20 12 88 44 skype: ericreiss twitter: @elreiss FatDUX is an official sponsor of the Usability Professionals' Association http://www.upassoc.org --- If you received this in error, please let us know and delete the file. FatDUX advises all recipients to virus scan all emails, and to eat five portions of fruit and vegetables daily. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Hi Jared, Sorry for my lack if responses, currently adjusting to my new life as a father and learning how to manage my time. I gave been following, just not able to respond as much as I wish. I don't see any moral issues when it comes to influencing a persons behavior. Simple because at the end of the day the person can always choose to do something different. It is when we as designers take that choice away I see an issue. The real debate defing the line that seperates influence and control and what types of influence seem to push the envelope on right or wrong. Dave recent comment on HOW we influence is very interesting and one that I want to explore more. This message has been brought to you via my iPhone. On Jul 28, 2009, at 7:44 PM, Jared Spool jsp...@uie.com wrote: On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Dan Lockton wrote: it's a great debate If only I understood what we were debating. It's disappointing when an author posts his article for discussion then doesn't participate in said discussion. Maybe we should debate how that is wrong? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD
Great example, Eric! (not just about defaults, but resetting defaults...almost evil) Here's another interesting tidbit concerning influence, care of Steve Jobs of Apple. It’s not about pop culture, and it’s not about fooling people, and it’s not about convincing people that they want something they don’t. We figure out what we want. And I think we’re pretty good at having the right discipline to think through whether a lot of other people are going to want it, too. That’s what we get paid to do. I wrote up a bit more here: http://bokardo.com/archives/steve-jobs-on-why-apple-doesnt-do-market-research/ Josh On Jul 29, 2009, at 7:49 AM, Eric Reiss wrote: Fascinating discussion. Let me share something that I do believe is truly unethical. I've been talking with the webmaster for several porn sites to learn more about streaming video. She (yes, she) told me a creepy story about how one site coerces new subscribers to submit to the recurring monthly charge rather than the one-time-only three-day sample period. In other words, rather than paying a one-time fee of USD 9.95, your credit card gets billed USD 29.95 each and every month. Here's how the scam works. On the sign-up form, you check which payment period you want. There is a really goofy field on the form that is almost always filled out wrong. For ethical reasons, I'm not going to go into details. But surely you are all clever enough to design a bad form of your own.:-) When you submit the form, it points out your error. What most people miss is that the checkbox for payment period has been reset. So folks correct the highlighted error and submit - but without reviewing their data. The site sends a confirmation e-mail where the amended payment period information is innocuously mentioned. That means when you complain, the company can refer to their original confirmation e-mail - If there are any errors in your order, please report them to us within the next 24 hours. Virtually no one notices the error - they're too busy looking at tits and ass. So, the company has suckered 29.95 out of people instead of 9.95. And apparently most people don't react until the second month is well underway. The funny thing is, I regularly run into dumb forms that reset things when I need to correct an entry. Since money is rarely involved, I just get irritated. But in generic terms, this is almost the same thing. For example, try registering for the German social networking site www.mixxt.net http://www.mixxt.net/ . It's really easy to make errors and some stuff gets reset, if I remember correctly. Conclusion: as the guardians of user-experience design, we have an obligation to protect users. Cheers, Eric --- Eric Reiss CEO The FatDUX Group Copenhagen, Denmark http://www.fatdux.com office: (+45) 39 29 67 77 mobile: (+45) 20 12 88 44 skype: ericreiss twitter: @elreiss FatDUX is an official sponsor of the Usability Professionals' Association http://www.upassoc.org --- If you received this in error, please let us know and delete the file. FatDUX advises all recipients to virus scan all emails, and to eat five portions of fruit and vegetables daily. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD
For some reason this feels like a familiar conversation, but this flies in the face of so much that we discuss and insist upon in our standard practices, doesn't it? Genius design? Or is this safe to say when you're an industry leader and have a proven record with it? Cool read! Scott On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Joshua Porter por...@bokardo.com wrote: Great example, Eric! (not just about defaults, but resetting defaults...almost evil) Here's another interesting tidbit concerning influence, care of Steve Jobs of Apple. It’s not about pop culture, and it’s not about fooling people, and it’s not about convincing people that they want something they don’t. We figure out what we want. And I think we’re pretty good at having the right discipline to think through whether a lot of other people are going to want it, too. That’s what we get paid to do. I wrote up a bit more here: http://bokardo.com/archives/steve-jobs-on-why-apple-doesnt-do-market-research/ Josh You always have the carny connection. - Clair High Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
One ethical consideration I run into often is a client wanting the marketing email option defaulted to opt-in. Typically these options are buried at the bottom of the page, below the fold and buried in fine print. I always push for either opt-out as the default, or no default value at all. Jon Karpoff Senior Partner Director User Experience Office: 1-212-237-5516 Cell: 1-914-419-4151 Email: jon.karp...@ogilvy.com We few, we happy few 636 11th Ave, New York, NY 10036. Brad Nunnally bnunna...@gmail. com To Sent by: Jared Spool jsp...@uie.com discuss-boun...@l cc ists.interactiond disc...@ixda.org esigners.com disc...@ixda.org Subject Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The 07/29/09 11:02 AM Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD. Hi Jared, Sorry for my lack if responses, currently adjusting to my new life as a father and learning how to manage my time. I gave been following, just not able to respond as much as I wish. I don't see any moral issues when it comes to influencing a persons behavior. Simple because at the end of the day the person can always choose to do something different. It is when we as designers take that choice away I see an issue. The real debate defing the line that seperates influence and control and what types of influence seem to push the envelope on right or wrong. Dave recent comment on HOW we influence is very interesting and one that I want to explore more. This message has been brought to you via my iPhone. On Jul 28, 2009, at 7:44 PM, Jared Spool jsp...@uie.com wrote: On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Dan Lockton wrote: it's a great debate If only I understood what we were debating. It's disappointing when an author posts his article for discussion then doesn't participate in said discussion. Maybe we should debate how that is wrong? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to email or messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the sender's company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. For more information on WPP's business ethical standards and corporate responsibility policies, please refer to WPP's website at http://www.wpp.com/WPP/About/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
How about the ethics of temporarily blinding users that don't use a products as intended? Read this story: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/pepperspray/ Now that's what I call influencing behavior through design. What's next, the tazer equipped vending machine? You better have exact change - punk! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
As it's been mentioned, influence is out there in many contexts, not just in Interaction Design. I don't think it's wrong to influence someone, nor can you avoid it in any interaction with people. Being ethical is being aware of the implications of that influence and avoiding causing harm to those being influenced (which includes making decisions they didn't really intend to make). I think a lot of way we should approach things is summed up well by Aesop's 'The North Wind and the Sun' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_North_Wind_and_the_Sun Kindness, gentleness, and persuasion win where force fails As you mention in the articles 'Influence' section, and j. eric mentioned with the toothbrush, unless we're plugging into their brains, the choice is inevitably up to the user. So I don't think it's right to say we have direct control of another person's behavior: a guard could go off the watchclock, a person could keep their jacket on in the sun, and (a phrase I heard that's become a favorite of mine) If people *really* want to put a pea up their nose, no matter what you do, you can't stop them from shoving it up there But we do set up the conditions for people to make certain choices over others, and you're right in that those conditions need to to be established in a way that address the human side of the equation, not just the system's. Those that do it well, I think, will tend to be more successful. Those that don't are found out, perhaps held onto begrudgingly for a while, but eventually abandoned. BTW, the link to Chris Nodder's site that David mentioned near the top is http://usability4evil.com. As David pointed out, the examples in there fall in line with this discussion. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Ack.. Apparently the link correction I gave for Chris Nodder's Evil by Design site still didn't work. Hopefully this one's right: http://www.usability4evil.com/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Brian, that's an interesting example, but even tho it's organ donation, i wouldn't consider it a matter of ethics (ironically, or not, the person's dead). we need to be careful with words here. the form that defaults to opt in hasnt really influenced the user but has influenced the outcome. perhaps bias would be a better term. if i were looking at submitted forms i wouldnt be looking for ethical violations but i'd be taking the form's bias into account. bias insofar as user who dont pay attention to the form unwittingly select yes. I dont consider the fact that the checkbox is already checked yes to influence the user. surely a user is capable of unchecking a checkbox w/o being influenced by its state. or am i making an assumption? ;-) a On Jul 27, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Brian Mila wrote: I didn't mean to speak specifically to advertising, just to the notion that you definitely can influence a person's behavior, to the point of them taking an action they might not have done otherwise. Take the example of default opt-out for organ donation. I'm sure you've all heard of it where the organ donation rate went way up simply because the person was defaulted to opt-in on the form. Organ donation is a pretty big decision for some people, and yet they were coerced, manipulated, or whatever you want to call it because of the design of the form. Adrian, in this case, the ethical concern is with the design of the form, isn't it? Would you consider it an ethical violation? In either case, the box being checked or not is going to influence the user. Brian Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
It is a kind of influence, and with the various terms, folks are talking past one another in some of these messages. The question for me is do I use my powers of design for good or for Awesome? I think ethics here is in what the user desires to have done. Influence covers a wide range of factors, and while a pre-selected box isn't on the coercion or forced end, the influence lies in the ease of use towards the users' purposes: did they want to be an organ donor? Is it easier and/or more common for people to let defaults remain no matter what their intent was? Does the treatment of the form elements make it easy for the user to understand what they want to do and how to do it? Design choices will inherently influence the person using the web page/application/widget/gizmo. Despite my best efforts, this doesn't necessarily mean an arm pops out of their machine and drags their finger to select what I want them to do. :(, Scott On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:33 PM, adrian chan adr...@gravity7.com wrote: Brian, that's an interesting example, but even tho it's organ donation, i wouldn't consider it a matter of ethics (ironically, or not, the person's dead). we need to be careful with words here. the form that defaults to opt in hasnt really influenced the user but has influenced the outcome. perhaps bias would be a better term. if i were looking at submitted forms i wouldnt be looking for ethical violations but i'd be taking the form's bias into account. bias insofar as user who dont pay attention to the form unwittingly select yes. I dont consider the fact that the checkbox is already checked yes to influence the user. surely a user is capable of unchecking a checkbox w/o being influenced by its state. or am i making an assumption? ;-) a -- You always have the carny connection. - Clair High Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
On Jul 28, 2009, at 1:33 PM, adrian chan wrote: Brian, that's an interesting example, but even tho it's organ donation, i wouldn't consider it a matter of ethics (ironically, or not, the person's dead). we need to be careful with words here. the form that defaults to opt in hasnt really influenced the user but has influenced the outcome. perhaps bias would be a better term. if i were looking at submitted forms i wouldnt be looking for ethical violations but i'd be taking the form's bias into account. bias insofar as user who dont pay attention to the form unwittingly select yes. I dont consider the fact that the checkbox is already checked yes to influence the user. surely a user is capable of unchecking a checkbox w/o being influenced by its state. or am i making an assumption? ;-) If we agree that influence means to effect behavior (as it does in my dictionary), then defaults are indeed influential. In fact, defaults are one of the most powerful ways to influence someone (as evidenced by the organ donation example) If a user *doesn't* have choice...that's something altogether different (such as coercion) Josh Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Ok folks, time for a step back. Interaction Design as defined in almost every place, but most importantly on our web site (http://www.ixda.org/about_interaction.php) is all about designing behavior. Interaction design defines the structure and behaviors of interactive products and services and user interactions with those products and services. Not just the behaviors of the products/services but also the user (aka human) interactions (aka wait for it ... BEHAVIORS) with those systems. We are having a really long thread here which is inanely obvious and the only issue is HOW not WHAT. Any tool is a weapon if you hold it right -- Ani Difranco. This quote comes to mind almost every time spouts that this or that technology is bad (or unusable) (Usually who's initials are Jakob Nielsen) What is good IxD or even ethical IxD is very different from what is IxD and what we do and don't do. Good yes even ethical are subjective to degrees of critical mass agreement, and in many cases those some agents of subjectivity are not just cultural but also temporal or historical in nature. This whole issue of influence vs. coercion is a red herring b/c it is a continuum based in judgement by those on the outside and by those with historical vision to it. It is the ultimate in subjective. We are all open to suggestion at various levels of degree. We can be manipulated usually w/o even knowing it, and usually the most potent types of manipulation occur when we don't realize (that's me slurping my chocolate shake from McDonald's in the background, btw). The examples put forth can be used in so many ways to both support and counter all the examples given so far. No one put a gun to Eichman's head, but I guarantee that he was manipulated though so many tonics of suggestion that our minds would explode. He just happened to be more open to them then say the person next to him. But when it comes to Interaction/Service Design of course we are trying to use our knowledge of cognition emotional psychology jointed together with theories of culture an society to not just fulfill needs but to increase productivity, keep people shopping or better, buying, and a host of other parts of the equation. Hell, it is called a Crackberry for a reason, no? So again, stop moralizing here and attaching that moralizing to any sort of limit to what IxD should or shouldn't be. It is only IxDA that says that IxD is to be harnessed for the improvement of the human condition, but IxD can be used for gambling and porn and military and advertising and media consumption and consumerism, etc. and etc. Hell, I know too many who wrote that human condition thing that are obviously NOT doing work to improve the total human condition at all, but that is an entirely different topic. I only mention it b/c even improving the human condition is obviously subjective too! Oh! and that example about organ donors was never presented by the person who did the research (I'm forgetting his name) as an example of those who filled it out to have been coerced, but rather the opposite. That the opt-in to donate folks were missing out on something they WANTED to do. He was comparing countries who both have high cultural levels of altruism and individual sacrifice for the whole. Sheesh, people! -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
I've been following this discussion with interest but haven't had time to contribute what I'd like (seriously, there's a whole book to write about this subject!). But Josh's mention of the power of defaults as a influence technique tipped me into a quick response. I'm researching *how design can be used to influence behaviour* - specifically, for social benefit, more specifically, for reducing the environmental impacts of product/service use, but also, in general, what techniques have been used, in what contexts, and how they might be applied elsewhere. Over the last year or so I've tried to compile a set of design pseudo-patterns for influencing user behaviour - The 'Design with Intent' Toolkit - http://designwithintent.co.uk - and am currently running workshop sessions with designers applying some of these ideas to particular briefs, to see what sort of product/service concepts they inspire. The stage after that is going to be prototyping and running user trials with some of the concepts developed, to get some data on which ones are actually most effective in practice at influencing users, in what contexts, and why. Hopefully this will be a useful contribution to the interaction design literature, and something that's actually applicable in the early stages of a design (or redesign) process. The behaviour is our medium debate eloquently stirred up by Frog's Robert Fabricant recently - to which Brad's post on Johnny Holland is a great companion piece - draws on aspects of fields such as behavioural economics, ethnography, persuasive technology and science and technology studies in discussing the ethical implications of designers being the 'puppet masters', and there is quite a lot of precedent in the ethical issues, including Thaler Sunstein's Libertarian Paternalism is not an Oxymoron ( http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=405940 ) and Berdichevsky et al's Analyzing the Ethics of Persuasive Technology ( http://credibility.stanford.edu/captology/notebook/archives.new/2006/06/ethics_of_persu.html). In a long post responding to Robert ( http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/06/14/frog-design-on-design-with-intent) I try to make the point that no design is ever going to be neutral: whether a default is chosen with helpful intent, manipulative intent, or without any real thought at all, it's still going to influence user behaviour. This seems obvious and trivial, but the effects can be large down the line. So we ought to think about it. Anyway, having just seen Dave Malouf's post I should stop myself going any further off on this subject, but it's a great debate and, I feel, going to be heard increasingly often as the power of interaction design to influence (rather than simply *support*) what users do is realised explicitly by more companies (and governments). Dan __ Dan Lockton MPhil BSc(Hons) FRSA | Cleaner Electronics Research Group | Brunel Design Brunel University | London | UB8 3PH | http://danlockton.co.uk |http://designandbehaviour.com/ @danlockton http://twitter.com/danlockton Google Group on Design Behaviour: http://designandbehaviour.com p.s. I apologise for the odd [column width=...] bits in some of my blog posts - they're formatting for a WP plugin which appears to have just broken with the update to 2.8.2. I'll fix them when I can. If we agree that influence means to effect behavior (as it does in my dictionary), then defaults are indeed influential. In fact, defaults are one of the most powerful ways to influence someone (as evidenced by the organ donation example) If a user *doesn't* have choice...that's something altogether different (such as coercion) Josh Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
i don't mean to stop the discussion. (nor do I have any sort of power to insist on that anyway, or do it?) My point being that we are not talking about whether or not we can influence, the question of the debate is how far should we go and even then that debate is really so subjective, I'm not even sure what's the point except on a project by project basis. Now, the real question in my mind is to discuss, theorize, etc. HOW to do influence. What about perception and cognition and emotion can we work? What cultural strategies are most effective. i.e. in social networking design, and social collaboration design there are a ton of means of getting people to be more contributor oriented. This is designing to increase activity. or in e-commerce models, how do we get more people to hit that final submit? or in health care how do we get people to take better care of themselves, for clinicians to make less mistakes, etc.? And the list goes on. this is valuable. But whether or not we influence and what are hte moral/ethical implications to me being a limiting factor of IxD as a discipline or practice is odd. I mean are we going to blackball porn site designers? Hell! I think we have a lot to learn from porn and gambling. the like gamers are our pioneers in so many ways. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
I find this whole debate fascinating. I really dont see where ethics come into the picture, though I see where questions arise around integrity, influence, design, and truth. To supplement examples of design issues in social media, for example, take Dave's: increase contributions. From my perspective this has little to do with what's on the screen (not including content -- selection of content and what is shown/not is key). It has more to do with the social dynamics, culture, community, and other matters of social practice. Why are contributors contributing? Perhaps because they have a sense of the common good, and as motivates many wikipedians, they want to maintain accuracy and breadth of open-sourced knowledge. Or perhaps they're contributing to twitter because they've got an enormous ego and no sense of self restraint. Clearly the term contribute loses its meaning very quickly when we get into social media, as nearly everything said or submitted is a contribution: social bookmarking, retweeting, blogging, commenting... How does one design the social -- that's what interests me, and in particular, what kinds of social interactions, individual, interpersonal, social, and public, can be codified? What concepts do we need if we're to go from explaining a single user interaction on social media to the social dynamics of two or more users? Clearly the interactions are users with users, not users with software -- but we cant just use real world social interactions as our models. Mediation strips away face, body, and affect; it removes synchrony of time. etc etc.. there's plenty more... So the question of influence is a very good one. It's probably not an ethical one, because we don't control the user, his/her perceptions, interests, choices, motives, or his/her experience. Personally I think framing may be a viable way to approach the issue of designing the social, as it shifts emphasis from design to perspective, and in social interaction design it's mostly about shaping these nuanced social meanings and negotiations, not functions (as with so much product design or interface design -- and that's not to denigrate style, etc). The matter does seem v interesting if the question is explored not in terms of our responsibilities as designers but in terms of the user experience: what kinds of users choose to retweet an influencer? what kinds of social incentives work with non-competitive users? are there ways to reduce the bias or distortion that leaderboards often produce? would there be a way to grow a service like twitter without it turning into a popularity contest for so many users? what social incentives do experts respond to, and could a system be designed to appeal to experts without attracting promoters? as the motivation is often the other person, the matter of influencing the user does get interesting... are there ethics involved if a dating site is designed to keep users hopeful, voyeuristically engaged, addicted to checking for new flirts and message, and highly unlikely to get a real date? dunno, that's the business of dating sites, none of which would survive if they did what the claim to do. we need to bear in mind that most social media, and perhaps a great deal of software in general, operate in failure mode much of the time. twitter is not conversational. followers are not friends. facebook is not social. many modern social systems are but a disaster waiting to happen. so how do we talk about influence and incentives if in fact much user activity fails to communicate, is ambiguous in its intent, is redundant with contributions elsewhere, goes unresponded to, is out of context... if so much of social media interaction is actually handling of failure, responding to breakdown, bridging misunderstanding, and otherwise social error handling, then perhaps we ought to learn more about what functional social media means before worrying that we have too much influence... and I'll say right now that these errors and failures may in fact be the motor of participation on social media: we're into breakdowns, ambiguities, ambivalence, conflict, and drama. --adrian Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Dan Lockton wrote: it's a great debate If only I understood what we were debating. It's disappointing when an author posts his article for discussion then doesn't participate in said discussion. Maybe we should debate how that is wrong? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
I've got an electric toothbrush at home as well (Oral-B, I think it is) which has an automatic timer for 2 or 3 minutes. I don't remember which it is because I don't have to. When I start brushing it starts counting for me and pulses to let me know when I've gone on long enough. It doesn't matter how awake or tired I am, it doesn't make me remember to set an egg timer, if I need to cut the brushing short I can... *it doesn't make me do anything that I wouldn't be doing otherwise*. That's why it works for me, and incidentally is exactly what I believe technology is supposed to be. Tim S. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:17 AM, j. eric townsend j...@flatline.net wrote: Jared Spool wrote: Over the past 20+ years, the ADA has tried a variety of solutions. Nothing has been as successful as the introduction of children's powered toothbrushes. Now, you can debate whether they missed something or the resulting design is somehow suboptimal. However, that misses the point of this discussion. Actually, I was off on a bit of a tangent, I was wondering out loud why motorized toothbrushes work and if there isn't a better way to implement that functionality. Has anyone other than the ADA studied this in other cultures, and what were their results? Is the mechanism really a complex one of subtle manipulation or is it simple novelty that makes it work? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
I have to say I find this thread a little silly. Of course design influences behavior. Everything in the environment influences behavior. We design tools, and we wouldn't design them (or build them) if we didn't want people to use them. Influencing behavior is not the same thing as coercing behavior. There are certainly ethical implications to design, but the bare fact that design influences behavior seems, to me, to be both ethically neutral and inescapable. Amy Jones -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Jared Spool Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:50 PM To: j.eric townsend Cc: IxDA Discuss Rule Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD. snip This discussion, as I understand it, is about whether designs that unknowingly influence behavioral changes is somehow unethical. Here we have a design that has produced positive results by doing just that. Is it wrong? Should the devices be taken off the market? Should designers have a code of ethics that suggest they shouldn't engage in such projects? That's what I want to know. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Influencing behavior is not the same thing as coercing behavior. Where do you draw the line between influencing and coercing? Do you even draw the line at all? Product advertisements have been made for hundreds of years, with the intent of maximum persuasion to buy the product (coercing?). Is that wrong?What about when it happens in political commercials? Is it wrong then? Do we as designers need to adopt a code of ethics like other professions have done? Brian . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Influence and coerce are different in that coerce has the notion of force associated with its meaning. Advertising may influence but I don't think it coerces. Would you fall into submission so easily to a commercial? What is maximum persuasion? I think people are influenced as much as they allow. Persuade implies using an argument or reasoning, hopefully backed by fact, which is not necessarily influence or coercion. There are usability issues with how words are being switched which confounds this discussion. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Generally speaking, folks don't have to subject themselves to our designs, and when they do, they can resist the behavioral adjustments. There are exceptions, of course: children are often seen as having less ability to resist adjustments, and less choice about what they experience. That's why they have parents. When a tool becomes omnipresent or necessary to access something we consider non-negotiable, influence approaches coercion. An example of this might be the design of voting machines. If electronic voting is your only option, and the design of the machine (whether industrial or software) influences you to vote a certain way, that's obviously an ethical issue, especially if that influence isn't apparent. I see little ethical dilemma in the design of a children's toothbrush, though. You can make an environmental argument, sure, but that's a decision I think we make collectively (either through government or popular sentiment/market forces), and that collective decision will decide the success or failure of the product. --Amy Jones -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer R Vignone Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:42 AM To: disc...@ixda.org Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD. Influence and coerce are different in that coerce has the notion of force associated with its meaning. Advertising may influence but I don't think it coerces. Would you fall into submission so easily to a commercial? What is maximum persuasion? I think people are influenced as much as they allow. Persuade implies using an argument or reasoning, hopefully backed by fact, which is not necessarily influence or coercion. There are usability issues with how words are being switched which confounds this discussion. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Brian, I think coercion is probably a misnomer. It suggests use of force or the threat of use of force, and if we use it we'll confuse matters with truly oppressive political and institutional strategies... I'd prefer terms like appeal, suggest, even deceive, falsify, or manipulate if you want to thematize the negative. The most logical approach would be to distinguish, as linguists and semioticians do, between information and form, or between the content its expression. We can then say that there's a falsification occurring in each: the content is false (advertising is a lie); the form is manipulative (aesthetically pleasing, sexually suggestive, appeals to lifestyle, etc). We then have the two axes of designing the false: one is to deliberately mislead using content and information (what is said, how, and what's not said); the other is to use familiar design languages, images, signs, stories, etc to misrepresent and to appeal to the customer's senses. The former engages the customer's knowledge; the latter engages the customer's style. Ethical questions could then be raised with each: is it right to use information to mislead? is it right to use design to appeal to the senses or to be suggestive? Keep in mind that advertising, while it lies, is up front and above board about lying -- so the consumer is complicit in the whole system of buying into brand strategies, advertisements, and so on. The consumer has the right to buy or not. (In political matters it's different -- taxes have been paid on basis of a representative political system and social contract). adrian 415 516 4442 Twitter: /gravity7 Social Interaction Design, Expertise, Consulting (gravity7) (gravity7 blog) (slideshare) Sr Fellow, Society for New Communications Research (SNCR) Adhocnium Member (adhocnium) LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/adrianchan) Facebook (www.facebook.com/adrianchan) On Jul 27, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Brian Mila wrote: Influencing behavior is not the same thing as coercing behavior. Where do you draw the line between influencing and coercing? Do you even draw the line at all? Product advertisements have been made for hundreds of years, with the intent of maximum persuasion to buy the product (coercing?). Is that wrong?What about when it happens in political commercials? Is it wrong then? Do we as designers need to adopt a code of ethics like other professions have done? Brian Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Speaking from a mother's perspective, it's quite a bit easier to brush kids' teeth (and to feel like you got them all) of a sometimes squirmy child with an electric toothbrush set to low (I use the plug-in electric toothbrushes, not the disposable ones, as for whatever reason, they decided not to make those have circular brushes, which is the ideal shape for cleaning teeth - especially in tiny mouths!) rather than a traditional toothbrush. It's also a heck of a lot easier to simulate the round circular motions that dentists prescribe to ensure proper teeth cleaning and reduce gum recession. It seems that we took a difficult and tedious task and made it easier so that hopefully more people will do it. I don't see that there is an ethical dilemma in having made toothbrushing more fun. We've also really improved floss from something that hardly anyone used and pretty much everyone disliked to cater to a wide range of mouths and personal preferences, from woven to wax to flavored to those little flossing sticks. I appreciate most products that promote personal hygeine and make it easier for parents to effectively care for their children's personal hygeine. It's resulted in a more educated (and dedicated!) populace on the matter of personal hygeine. Better mouth care means you get to keep your teeth longer and don't have to deal with dentures or implants, so you make a little investment now to save thousands later. It's not environmentally sound, but neither are those tons of plastic bottles - why can't we just go back to glass - everything tasted better out of glass - but of course, they lost money due to bottle breakage and kids got cut on glass and the movies show people fighting with glass bottles and so they brought in plastics with all their BPA and other harmful chemicals that pollute our landfill at a much faster rate than toothbrushes which we at least use for 3 months. Those little blue bristle toothbrush indicators that let you know when your toothbrush is no longer doing its job effectively are wonderful, and again, result in a populace that can better understand that toothbrushes don't last forever. Okay, that's all I have to say on toothbrushes - brushing kids' teeth is a difficult process, so if you don't get to do it every night, you can live vicariously through my pain! Don't even get me started on the voting machines!! Check out blackboxvoting.org, if you haven't already! Courtney Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
I didn't mean to speak specifically to advertising, just to the notion that you definitely can influence a person's behavior, to the point of them taking an action they might not have done otherwise. Take the example of default opt-out for organ donation. I'm sure you've all heard of it where the organ donation rate went way up simply because the person was defaulted to opt-in on the form. Organ donation is a pretty big decision for some people, and yet they were coerced, manipulated, or whatever you want to call it because of the design of the form. Adrian, in this case, the ethical concern is with the design of the form, isn't it? Would you consider it an ethical violation? In either case, the box being checked or not is going to influence the user. Brian . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Jared Spool wrote: Then Dr. John's Products released a line of children's power toothbrushes. (Subsequently acquired by Proctor Gamble.) The battery powered devices only have an On switch and automatically turn off after 3 minutes. The 3 minute run time forces the child to brush the entire period. To be pedantic, it forces the motor to run for 3 minutes. It certainly doesn't weld itself to the child's hand, take over their neurons, and force the toothbrush into the child's mouth. Children who use the toothbrush regularly demonstrate substantial better long-term oral health than children who don't. The real question is: why do they use it? Is it simply because the motor is on and it's fun? Because they know how long to use it? If the former, is there a less environmentally stressful way to make it fun? If the latter, would a simple egg timer have worked just as well and saved on natural resources? Sure, convincing kids to brush their teeth is something we can probably all agree is good, but is making a battery powered toothbrush the right way to go about it? What's the fully-loaded cost of that bit of kit compared to a traditional toothbrush + a little parent/child education? Would simply asking the parent to brush their teeth at the same time as their child solve the problem while creating a positive parent-child interaction? -- J. Eric jet Townsend -- designer, fabricator, hacker design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
I'm pretty sure the puppet masters know who they are. However, I am glad to see us take our responsibilities as designers seriously, as John Thackara discusses in his book *In the bubble* http://bit.ly/29AmwK If you'd like a more thoroughly researched exploration of how people take care of business and themselves in the face of our interfaces, I recommend Clay Spinuzzi's (@spinuzzi) book *Tracing genres through organizations*. There's a pretty comprehensive preview available at http://bit.ly/xntwr. - Fredrik @movito Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
On Jul 26, 2009, at 11:00 AM, j. eric townsend wrote: Jared Spool wrote: Then Dr. John's Products released a line of children's power toothbrushes. (Subsequently acquired by Proctor Gamble.) The battery powered devices only have an On switch and automatically turn off after 3 minutes. The 3 minute run time forces the child to brush the entire period. To be pedantic, it forces the motor to run for 3 minutes. It certainly doesn't weld itself to the child's hand, take over their neurons, and force the toothbrush into the child's mouth. Children who use the toothbrush regularly demonstrate substantial better long-term oral health than children who don't. The real question is: why do they use it? Is it simply because the motor is on and it's fun? Because they know how long to use it? If the former, is there a less environmentally stressful way to make it fun? If the latter, would a simple egg timer have worked just as well and saved on natural resources? Sure, convincing kids to brush their teeth is something we can probably all agree is good, but is making a battery powered toothbrush the right way to go about it? What's the fully-loaded cost of that bit of kit compared to a traditional toothbrush + a little parent/child education? Would simply asking the parent to brush their teeth at the same time as their child solve the problem while creating a positive parent- child interaction? Over the past 20+ years, the ADA has tried a variety of solutions. Nothing has been as successful as the introduction of children's powered toothbrushes. Now, you can debate whether they missed something or the resulting design is somehow suboptimal. However, that misses the point of this discussion. This discussion, as I understand it, is about whether designs that unknowingly influence behavioral changes is somehow unethical. Here we have a design that has produced positive results by doing just that. Is it wrong? Should the devices be taken off the market? Should designers have a code of ethics that suggest they shouldn't engage in such projects? That's what I want to know. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Jared Spool wrote: Over the past 20+ years, the ADA has tried a variety of solutions. Nothing has been as successful as the introduction of children's powered toothbrushes. Now, you can debate whether they missed something or the resulting design is somehow suboptimal. However, that misses the point of this discussion. Actually, I was off on a bit of a tangent, I was wondering out loud why motorized toothbrushes work and if there isn't a better way to implement that functionality. Has anyone other than the ADA studied this in other cultures, and what were their results? Is the mechanism really a complex one of subtle manipulation or is it simple novelty that makes it work? -- J. Eric jet Townsend -- designer, fabricator, hacker design: www.allartburns.org; hacking: www.flatline.net; HF: KG6ZVQ PGP: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
On Jul 23, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Brad Nunnally wrote: A few months ago, I asked the group if we, as designers, had the right to influence, or control, the behavior of another person. The feedback I received was great and inspired me to take the discussion a step further by writing an article on the subject for Johnny Holland. Please check it out, and I look forward to your thoughts and feedback, Brad, I don't get this point in your conclusion: It appears that we have painted ourselves into a corner. Having direct control over another person’s behavior is wrong, as they did with the watchclock. Wrong is a strong judgement. For years, dentists have been trying to convince parents to help their children brush longer. Longer teeth brushing sessions directly correlate to better oral health and fewer cavities. Yet, the dentists failed to make any progress. Then Dr. John's Products released a line of children's power toothbrushes. (Subsequently acquired by Proctor Gamble.) The battery powered devices only have an On switch and automatically turn off after 3 minutes. The 3 minute run time forces the child to brush the entire period. Children who use the toothbrush regularly demonstrate substantial better long-term oral health than children who don't. The design of the toothbrushes explicitly influences the behavior of the child, guiding them to better oral health. Is that wrong? Mint.com shows users their spending and investing habits in a way that, for many users, changes their behavior to spend more consciously and invest more savings. Is that wrong? Sacremento's Municipal Utility District found that when they put smiley faces on the bills that of residents who outperformed 100 of their neighbors in homes of similar size that used the same heating fuel, those households reduced energy use by 2%. The design of the bills influenced the energy use of those individuals. Is that wrong? I'm not getting how directly influencing behavior is wrong. Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: @jmspool Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
A %u2018good%u2019 game design would reward its players for taking breaks, how you incorporate that into game play would prove to be an interesting challenge. Civilization would display a message saying You've been playing for 3 hours, take a break. Naturally, I dismissed the dialog and kept playing ;) but it was a shocking reminder of how long I had been playing because it was so easy to lose track of time. It didn't reward you in the game, but it did help sometimes to keep me from going all night until my eyes were burning. Another game I can think ofMafia Wars on facebook. You earn money every hour if you buy land and properties, and it keeps track even after you signed off. So it allows you to basically play without playing so to speak. Brian . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Hello, A few months ago, I asked the group if we, as designers, had the right to influence, or control, the behavior of another person. The feedback I received was great and inspired me to take the discussion a step further by writing an article on the subject for Johnny Holland. Please check it out, and I look forward to your thoughts and feedback, Thanks! Johnny Holland - Are We The Puppet Masters? - http://johnnyholland.org/magazine/2009/07/are-we-the-puppet-masters/ Brad Ty Nunnally Interaction Designer - Blog: http://bradsramblings.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/bnunnally 618.580.1989 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
For a useful (and amusing) way to explore this subject further, you should check out Chris Nodder's Evil By Design site: http://design4evil.com which invites people to contribute examples of evil design and match them up with one of the 7 deadly sins (greed, pride, sloth, etc.). As you point out, designers have power within the realm of choice architecture to affect certain behaviors. The more we expose abuses the less likely someone else will be to attempt it and be successful. -David . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
This reminds me of a talk I saw by Bill Buxton recently. He asked attendees to sketch a PDA in 15 seconds, then do the same for its UI, and lastly for it's interaction design. In the last case he said something to the effect, If there isn't some part of a person in the sketch of the interaction, you fail. There is a need to always personalize our designs, in that we continually remember that these are systems being used by real people like ourselves who have wants, needs, goals, demands, and distractions. Personas, role play, user research and other tools help keep us grounded in the human implications of our work. Empathy is a necessary trait for a designer. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44045 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Interesting article. I'll play contrarian. We as designers see a world as it could be, often a more user friendly one. But if end users can't see it, they won't every get there and we'd be stuck with torches and caves. Progress is change, people don't like change, so we have to lure them into the future. Design is also communication, which often involves conveying a message. In short I don't know how really to not influence people in the process of design. I've had similar discussions on ethics and video games (with Will Wright of Sims Fame), like how much responsibility to game makers have for controlling the length and addictiveness of the the games they create. We see with WoW, this can destroy marriages and be equally as addicting as drugs. Is that the responsibility of the game maker to temper the users, or the users responsibility to moderate themselves? IxD that we think of is a more confined to applications, but the rules still apply, there are paths to fun/productivity and paths of tedium and dispair, as designers we have the responsibility to setup roadsigns...and listen to users when they always miss that perfectly placed sign to turn left at Albuqurque. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
Hi Brad, I'd like to know what you and the others think of IxDs triggering intended behaviour through persuasion or even nagging. One scenario: A company has received complaints that applications are being treated too late and applicants receiving no response whatsoever for months. So, they create a workflow on top of the applications database that sends a message to the one responsible, reminding him to reply the candidate. Of course, that message links directly into the HR app and makes it as easy as possible to keep the applicant informed using predefined texts etc. In this case the interaction design has the goal to influence the user behaviour in order to ensure adequate Corporate Behaviour towards external stakeholders, the applicants. The whole thing is being set up to influence someone to do something differently. Would you consider that ok? Milan -- ||| | | || | || | || milan guenther * interaction design p +49 173 2856689 * www.guenther.cx Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are We The Puppet Masters? The Ethics of IxD.
@ Troy – That’s the tricky part for me, design implies influence. There just is no way around it. It is how we influence though that just consumes my curiosity. You do bring up a good point though with Video games, especially MMO’s like WoW. As an ex-WoW player myself, I know how hard it is to just stop playing. From the business point of view you WANT your players addicted, since that addiction is your paycheck. A ‘good’ game design would reward its players for taking breaks, how you incorporate that into game play would prove to be an interesting challenge. @ Milan – The amount of nagging you give a user is a fun challenge. Too much and it leads to annoyance and frustration. Too little and the users don’t end up getting the proper feedback they need. It is a balancing act that can be tackled in many different ways and is depending on the people involved. Brad Ty Nunnally Interaction Designer - Blog: http://bradsramblings.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/bnunnally 618.580.1989 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
