Re: [slim] Apple Lossless & SqueezeServer Help

[agillis]

jclyle;634270 Wrote: 
> I bought the new album from My Morning Jacket last night off their
> website in Apple Lossless format. The tracks play fine through iTunes.
> I loaded them onto my Vortexbox Appliance, server version is 7.5.4  I
> can see the album in my library. When I play the tracks my SBTouch
> shows the album art and  the time elapsed status, but no sound output.
> The same goes for iPad & iPhone playback with iPeng. All the Apple
> Lossless files on my server play fine. The files were created from
> importing CD via iTunes. 
> 
> Did I buy a set of files that have some sort of DRM where they can only
> be played through iTunes?

Load VLC media player on your computer. If VLC can play it SqueezeBox
should be able to play it.


-- 
agillis

rip, tag, get cover art… All you do is insert the CD!
http://vortexbox.org

agillis
Lead Developer VortexBox

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless & SqueezeServer Help

[toby10]

jclyle;634270 Wrote: 
> 
> Did I buy a set of files that have some sort of DRM where they can only
> be played through iTunes?

Quite possibly, yes.  If you bring the song up in iTunes, select the
songs properties + display tags, it will likely say if it is
"protected" or not.
I do not use iTunes so I cannot tell you exactly how to view such
metadata.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless & SqueezeServer Help

[jclyle]

the files i'm having trouble with show up as .m4a files.


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[slim] Apple Lossless & SqueezeServer Help

[jclyle]

I bought the new album from My Morning Jacket last night off their
website in Apple Lossless format. The tracks play fine through iTunes.
I loaded them onto my Vortexbox Appliance, server version is 7.5.4  I
can see the album in my library. When I play the tracks my SBTouch
shows the album art and  the time elapsed status, but no sound output.
The same goes for iPad & iPhone playback with iPeng. All the Apple
Lossless files on my server play fine. The files were created from
importing CD via iTunes. 

Did I buy a set of files that have some sort of DRM where they can only
be played through iTunes?


-- 
jclyle

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[dsdreamer]

There don't seem to be any bugs open at the moment that match your
issue.

What happens when you disable native playback of AIFF and thereby force
transcoding to FLAC? 

Have you tried the 7.4.2 nightly? There could have been a fix that had
the side-effect of fixing your issue.


-- 
dsdreamer

--
"Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you..."

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[rdb001]

Dos anyone know why this happened?  What changed in the new releases? 
The songs all played perfectly before upgrading my OS and to 7.4.1.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[rdb001]

I seem to be having trouble with all AIFF files now that I switched to
7.4.1 on Snow Leopard.  Issues range from hiss/noise on the last two
seconds of tracks to no music/all noise on other tracks.  The server is
set to AIFF native.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[cunobelinus]

Audacity will convert ALAC to AIFF. It's free. It's also a very good  
audio file editor. And cross-platform, incidentally.




On 15 Oct 2009, at 22:47, USAudio wrote:

>
> USAudio;472723 Wrote:
>> I've been running the conversion process from Apple Lossless to AIFF
>> using iTunes for awhile now and keep running into a (-208) Unknown
>> Conversion error for certain songs.
>> I don't see anything obvious about the songs that would cause the
>> error.
>>
>> Anyone else experience this or have any idea on how to resolve it?
>> I guess I'll just have to re-rip those songs directly to AIFF from CD
>> again ...
> Well, it sometimes took multiple tries but I was finally able to re- 
> rip
> the problem songs into AIFF.  There may be some kind of obscure iTunes
> bug there but I appear to be back in business with my entire iTunes
> library now in AIFF.
>
> Thanks to all for your responses.
>
>
> -- 
> USAudio
> 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[radish]

pski;472838 Wrote: 
> I seem to remember the inclusion of apple lossless as native in the last
> couple of releases.
> 
> P

Only on SqueezePlay based players, and event then I don't think it's
done yet.


-- 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[pski]

radish;472620 Wrote: 
> It _can_ play AIFF native, but my understanding is that all lossless
> formats other than FLAC are transcoded to FLAC by default (can be
> disabled) to save bandwidth. Might be wrong about AIFF specifically, I
> don't have any of that file type.

I seem to remember the inclusion of apple lossless as native in the
last couple of releases.

P


-- 
pski

real stereo (can almost weld)

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[USAudio]

USAudio;472723 Wrote: 
> I've been running the conversion process from Apple Lossless to AIFF
> using iTunes for awhile now and keep running into a (-208) Unknown
> Conversion error for certain songs.  
> I don't see anything obvious about the songs that would cause the
> error.
> 
> Anyone else experience this or have any idea on how to resolve it?
> I guess I'll just have to re-rip those songs directly to AIFF from CD
> again ...
Well, it sometimes took multiple tries but I was finally able to re-rip
the problem songs into AIFF.  There may be some kind of obscure iTunes
bug there but I appear to be back in business with my entire iTunes
library now in AIFF.

Thanks to all for your responses.


-- 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[radish]

Are there no other converters you could try? I know on Windows there are
various apps which will do the job.


-- 
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'HELP ME RAISE MONEY FOR CHILDREN'S CANCER RESEARCH!'
(HTTP://WWW.ADAMREEVE.COM/24IN24/)
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[USAudio]

I've been running the conversion process from Apple Lossless to AIFF
using iTunes for awhile now and keep running into a (-208) Unknown
Conversion error for certain songs.  
I don't see anything obvious about the songs that would cause the
error.

Anyone else experience this or have any idea on how to resolve it?
I guess I'll just have to re-rip those songs directly to AIFF from CD
again ...


-- 
USAudio

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[USAudio]

cunobeli...@mac.com;472482 Wrote: 
> ...
> I've found no issues apart from disc space, unless you intend to use a 
> 
> wireless network and your signal is less than perfect, in which case  
> you may find you get a significant amount of dropping out depending on 
> 
> how bad the signal is, and possibly how quick the machine on which  
> you're running SqueezeCenter is. ...
Thanks for the feedback!

I've tested converting and playing some individual AIFF tracks on my
SB3 and had no dropout issues, so I believe I'm fine there.  Also, this
Mac Mini's sole purpose in life is to be a SC Music Server so that also
should not prove to be a problem either.

Sounds like I'm good to go ... now to start the lengthy conversion
process ...


-- 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[radish]

cunobeli...@mac.com;472591 Wrote: 
> Has that changed? I thought SC used to play AIFF as native.
> 

It _can_ play AIFF native, but my understanding is that all lossless
formats other than FLAC are transcoded to FLAC by default (can be
disabled) to save bandwidth. Might be wrong about AIFF specifically, I
don't have any of that file type.


-- 
radish

'HELP ME RAISE MONEY FOR CHILDREN'S CANCER RESEARCH!'
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[cunobelinus]

Has that changed? I thought SC used to play AIFF as native.

Either way, there's no reason not to use AIFF with Squeezebox apart  
from disc space (and perhaps a bit of processing power), and a good  
many reasons to use it if one is running a Mac.

On 15 Oct 2009, at 14:46, radish wrote:

>
> Wouldn't the default SC setup have it transcoding AIFF to FLAC? That
> would fix the network bandwidth issues.
>
>
> -- 
> radish
>
> 'HELP ME RAISE MONEY FOR CHILDREN'S CANCER RESEARCH!'
> (HTTP://WWW.ADAMREEVE.COM/24IN24/)
> http://www.last.fm/user/polymeric
> 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[radish]

Wouldn't the default SC setup have it transcoding AIFF to FLAC? That
would fix the network bandwidth issues.


-- 
radish

'HELP ME RAISE MONEY FOR CHILDREN'S CANCER RESEARCH!'
(HTTP://WWW.ADAMREEVE.COM/24IN24/)
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[cunobelinus]

This is my approach, too, for the same reason coupled with my perfect  
contentment with iTunes' tagging and cataloguing, which therefore  
disqualifies FLAC. AIFF retains tags, as you suggest.

I've found no issues apart from disc space, unless you intend to use a  
wireless network and your signal is less than perfect, in which case  
you may find you get a significant amount of dropping out depending on  
how bad the signal is, and possibly how quick the machine on which  
you're running SqueezeCenter is. You may find that you need to use  
either bridging (Airport Extreme to Airport Express or equivalents;  
then ethernet connection from Airport Express to SB - incredibly easy  
to set up) or else ethernet throughout. I am now using the latter  
using ethernet over mains (Homeplug) which works superbly even on very  
ancient and chaotic mains wiring. iPeng control is still via Airport.

The disc space issue matters only when using iPods. I've recently got  
round that by making a separate library specifically for iPod use,  
consisting only of ALAC and iTunes+ AAC. It seems to work.  
Squeezecenter uses the main library and now therefore shows only AIFF  
and a few ALAC files I haven't got round to converting yet.

Hope that helps.

On 15 Oct 2009, at 04:05, USAudio wrote:

>
> I miss not being able to seek (FWD, REW) on a track with my SB3 so I
> plan on converting my entire collection in iTunes (OSX) from Apple
> Lossless to AIFF.  When completed I plan on deleting all the Apple
> Lossless versions.
>
> Before I do so, are there any gotchas I may not be aware of?
>
> - Files are larger but I have plenty of disk space.
> - AIFF retains tags just like Apple Lossless, correct?
> - Other issues?
>
> I spent many many hours ripping a good portion of my collection from  
> CD
> ... am I going to regret this or should I just go for it?!
>
> Any comments or words of wisdom appreciated.
> Thanks!
>
>
> -- 
> USAudio
> 
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[slim] Apple Lossless -> AIFF ... gotchas?

[USAudio]

I miss not being able to seek (FWD, REW) on a track with my SB3 so I
plan on converting my entire collection in iTunes (OSX) from Apple
Lossless to AIFF.  When completed I plan on deleting all the Apple
Lossless versions.

Before I do so, are there any gotchas I may not be aware of?

- Files are larger but I have plenty of disk space.
- AIFF retains tags just like Apple Lossless, correct?
- Other issues?

I spent many many hours ripping a good portion of my collection from CD
... am I going to regret this or should I just go for it?!

Any comments or words of wisdom appreciated.
Thanks!


-- 
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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[maggior]

blessingx;341721 Wrote: 
> Seriously go to a public library (where discs are often extremely
> "used"), check out 20 discs and experiment. I think you'll find what I
> did over a series of machines. EAC does though have quite nice
> reporting. 
> 

I've actually done this.  Yes, library discs can be quite "used" and
will put the error correction in your ripping software and CD ROM drive
to work.

As you point out, EAC's reporting is great and is what will keep me
with EAC when it comes to ripping damaged discs.

The best thing about the report is that you can listen to the reported
bad spots.  Many times, an error will be reported, but even with
headphones, it cannot be heard.  If I can't hear it, then I save the
ripped files.  Otherwise, I'll try some other methods.


-- 
maggior

Rich
-
Setup: 2 SB3s, 1 duet, 1 receiver.  SuSE 10.2 Server running
SqueezeCenter 7.2, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave
http://www.last.fm/user/maggior

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[blessingx]

igroucho;341307 Wrote: 
> If you're anal about the ripping the safest way is probably using Exact
> Audio Copy. iTunes will not give you bit-perfect rips even thou the
> difference would not be audible. iTunes will usually give you bit-perfect 
> rips and EAC won't always. I
don't understand this iTunes bias (as someone who used to keep a PC
around solely for EAC). The hardware is at least as important as the
software and iTunes is fine in most cases and in severely damaged discs
EAC may also have problems. All things equal EAC is superior, but all
things are rarely equal. I'd certainly recommend EAC if Windows is
used, but I wouldn't state iTunes will "not give you bit-perfect rips"
as many tests on the web have quite definitely proven otherwise (and
now years ago). The differences between to two apps over a variety of
damaged disks is greatly over exaggerated. EAC does though have quite
nice reporting. 

If in the end you want to try an alternative ripper, closer to EAC but
on OS X, give Max a shot - http://sbooth.org/Max/

As for the format question: as mentioned it basically comes down to
which you'd less want to give up - greater Apple support or FF/RW on
the Squeezeboxes. In the end I use ALAC because iTunes (on OS X) when
coupled with the available Applescripts (
http://dougscripts.com/itunes/ ) is a wonder at handling tag
information.


-- 
blessingx

'★'
(http://www.last.fm/user/blessingx/)  -'this
american life' (http://thislife.org/), 'take-away
shows'
(http://www.blogotheque.net/spip.php?page=cae_all&lang=en),
'jazz profiles'
(http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10208861),
'streaming soundtracks'
(http://www.streamingsoundtracks.com/)-

macbook )))
⊗ squeezebox 3 → assemblage dac1 → rudistor nxØ2
sistema → at w1ØØØ / etys er4p/s
⊗ squeezebox 3 → parasound 11ØØ hd #1 → stax
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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[Phil Leigh]

pski;341567 Wrote: 
> 
> What would be the advantage of having SC convert to WAV rather than
> FLAC? Just wondering..
Some people (not me) think that the playback quality is better, because
of the reduced workload on the player CPU not causing noise issues.

There is intense debate (and no hard evidence AFAIK).


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
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Kimber & Chord cables
Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...)

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[pski]

I used itunes to load my CD's simply because I could set up a couple of
machines and just feed them CD's. No other intervention.

Just set itunes to load/eject and turn-on "Use error correction when
reading audio cd's"


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[andlauer]

I gave mediamonkey a try. It looks like a serious alternative to iTunes.
However, mediamonkey does not seem to manage my movies and video
podcasts (not to mention iPhone applications and ringtones). So I'll
stick with iTunes for now.

Furthermore, mediamonkey only runs on Windows. In other words it breaks
you free from Apple, but binds you to Microsoft :(

Finally, it seems possible to drive a Squeezebox from mediamonkey. So
mediamonkey is not only an alternative to iTunes, but also to
SqueezeCenter, though a very primitive one. Too good to be true ;)

Regards,

JC


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[Nonreality]

MuckleEck;341321 Wrote: 
> Have to disagree, I ripped a CD to ALAC when I was just on itunes and
> the last track sounded horrible, badly distorted and the orchestra
> sounded as though they were in a wee tin box. Re-ripped to FLAC using
> dBpoweramp and AccurateRip and it was perfect. Interestingly my CD
> player also played it perfectly.I would use dbpoweramp for perfect rips too 
> but it would not make a
sound quality difference.  The rip if bad will produce pops and other
artifacts but won't make it sound like a tin box. Something else was
the problem.


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[igroucho]

maybe I should have written "in most cases not audible". Anyway, this is
a persistent topic of debate...


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[MuckleEck]

igroucho;341307 Wrote: 
>  thou the difference would not be audible. 

Have to disagree, I ripped a CD to ALAC when I was just on itunes and
the last track sounded horrible, badly distorted and the orchestra
sounded as though they were in a wee tin box. Re-ripped to FLAC using
dBpoweramp and AccurateRip and it was perfect. Interestingly my CD
player also played it perfectly.


-- 
MuckleEck

Alasdair

SB3 -> Linn Majik - Acoustic Energy Extreme 5 (garden) | SB3 ->
Cambridge Audio 640R - Morduant Short (TV room) | SB3 -> AudioEngine 2
(bedroom) | SB3 -> AudioEngine 2 (kitchen) | SBR -> Music Fidelity X-A1
- Mission 701 (office)| Chumby (bedroom) | Two Controllers

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[igroucho]

If you're anal about the ripping the safest way is probably using Exact
Audio Copy. iTunes will not give you bit-perfect rips even thou the
difference would not be audible. The catch here is that EAC is win-only
so if u don't happen to have win accessible (for ex installed on ur mac)
ur out of luck. Anyway that's how I do it and I'm using mac hardware
only (but for the Plextor external cd-drive). Once ripped to flac and
tagged (still in win using mp3tag) and moved to mac os, Max (freeware)
will take me to alac whenever I want to. I have taken the luxury of
storing my collection of 0,5 TB in both flacs (which I use for my
tranny) and alacs. For me it's the perfect solution for both
environments SB and iPods.


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[Nonreality]

telecaster;341259 Wrote: 
> Thanks guys for the good advice!!
> I will stay with iTunesripping and Apple lossless then! :-)
> 
> Hopefully someday there will be just as simple to rip to FLAC and
> organise music and pictures of CDcovers as it is using iTunes.
> 
> I understand that FLAC is superior to anything else, but I am not
> dedicated enough to go the extra mile, it takes too much time and
> effort for me.
> 
> best regards
> telecaster
Just for fun download Mediamonkey and try it.  It works with Ipods and
it can transcode on the fly in the paid version to ipods. It would give
you an out from the itunes world and it's very good.  The free version
allows you to just about everything you need so it's a good way to try
it.

Oh wait you're Apple aren't you?  Nevermind.


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[Peter]

telecaster wrote:
> Thanks guys for the good advice!!
> I will stay with iTunesripping and Apple lossless then! :-)
>
> Hopefully someday there will be just as simple to rip to FLAC and
> organise music and pictures of CDcovers as it is using iTunes.
>   

Make sure to complain to Apple about that.

> I understand that FLAC is superior to anything else, but I am not
> dedicated enough to go the extra mile, it takes too much time and
> effort for me.
>   

It's not necessarily superior, but it's not proprietary, wich most of us 
consider a large advantage. MS and Apple are evil because they try to 
force you to use their products by using proprietary formats and 
protocols (or incompatible variations thereof).

Regards,
Peter

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[telecaster]

Thanks guys for the good advice!!
I will stay with iTunesripping and Apple lossless then! :-)

Hopefully someday there will be just as simple to rip to FLAC and
organise music and pictures of CDcovers as it is using iTunes.

I understand that FLAC is superior to anything else, but I am not
dedicated enough to go the extra mile, it takes too much time and
effort for me.

best regards
telecaster


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[Eric Seaberg]

Telecaster, since you're an Apple user already, and are used to the
iTunes interface, I'd stick with Apple Lossless.  That's what I use,
mainly because I prefer the way iTunes handles tagging over anything
else that runs on the Mac.

I do NOT transcode to FLAC for playback to my Transporter or SB3s.  I
'disable' the FLAC option in all coding options and let SC send WAV
files to the Transporter.  It works great and, even though there is
some transcoding involved, it works pretty flawlessly on my Mac MINI
server.

Enjoy the 'box'.


-- 
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Eric Seaberg - San Diego
A.E.S., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[SuperQ]

Both are fine.  I prefer FLAC, but I don't own any Apple products.  The
only thing you need to do is turn on "Secure" ripping in iTunes.


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[andlauer]

Hello,

Slimserver transcodes ALAC to a supported format (WAV in my case) as it
sends the data to the Squeezebox. The Pentium III that runs my
Slimserver has no problem with that kind of workload, so your Mac Mini
should not have either.

I have chosen Apple Lossless because it is fully supported by Apple
software (iTunes) and more importantly by my Apple hardware
(iPod/iPhone).

If, like me, you are used to iTunes for ripping your CDs and managing
your music, and you own an iPod or an iPhone, then Apple Lossless is
the lossless format of choice.

Regards,

JC


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[Peter]

telecaster wrote:
> I have just got a Transporter and I am impressed!!
> I have for a long time been ripping my CDs in iTunes using lossless, 
> is this ok or should I move to FLAC?
>   

I'd move to FLAC to save unnecessary transcoding, but then again I'd 
probably just write a script to do the conversion automatically..

> iTunes ripping is so much easier than using Toast9 and FLAC, so I
> would
> love to stay with iTunes, but is the quality good enough?
>   

The sound quality of all lossless formats is identical. Same as the 
input data.

> I have a Pioneer SC-LX90 amp and are using the analogue output of the
> transporter, since the amp does not have a balanced input I am using
> the other one, is this ok or should I use a digital signal path and let
> the
> amps DAC do the conversion?
>   

OK by me... ;)

Regards,
Peter

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[slim] Apple lossless or FLAC?

[telecaster]

I have just got a Transporter and I am impressed!!
I have for a long time been ripping my CDs in iTunes using lossless, 
is this ok or should I move to FLAC?

iTunes ripping is so much easier than using Toast9 and FLAC, so I
would
love to stay with iTunes, but is the quality good enough?

I have a Pioneer SC-LX90 amp and are using the analogue output of the
transporter, since the amp does not have a balanced input I am using
the other one, is this ok or should I use a digital signal path and let
the
amps DAC do the conversion?

Sorry for newbee questions, but I really would appreciate som good
advice ! :-)
regards
telecaster


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[Merlin]

I had problems with apple lossless with SC7.2.

My problem was solved after I unchecked the 'use Itunes' option in
SCentre and just put in the file path to my music.  Rescanned, and now
now problems.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[Ambush2468]

I have most of my albums encoded in Apple Lossless.  I have XP SP3 fully
updated.  My Duet worked just fine until I was forced into a 7.2 upgrade
this afternoon.  It immediately stopped working correctly with the
upgrade. Now it randomly cuts on and off with streaming media and Apple
Lossless sound like they are badly corrupted when they play.

Any ideas how to resolve this with out having to code?


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[edkeller]

Thank you bpa and Jean-Charles.  Unfortunately I am tech-challenged
therefore I will wait for a fix instead of tinkering with codes.
Trying to downgrade to 7.01 again.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[andlauer]

edkeller,

The thread below proposes a temporary fix to your problem:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=52048

Regards,

Jean-Charles


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[bpa]

edkeller,

I think you should add your problem to bug 9420 as it is a general
Linux issue and not an Ubuntu one

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9420


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[edkeller]

Running 7.2 on ReadyNAS and Apple Lossless won't play any more.  I am
very very frustrated.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[gandt]

its not Squeencentre - it seems only the Duet wont play back the tracks!
What on earth is going on? Anyone familiar with this?



graham


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[gandt]

Ok I understand - maybe I just didnt happen to ever play one of the old
AAC files and its never worked! I guess the probolem now is to find a
version of Quicktime that will happily install in Windows Home Server
(not the latest ones) does anybody know?





graham


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[pablolie]

gandt;334892 Wrote: 
> Just ungraded to 7.2 to discover my (now somewhat elderly) apple
> lossless (not drm just encoded to apple lossless using itunes - usually
> with suffix m4a) dont play - just a click then nothing. I am using
> Windows Home Server if that might make a differance to the stock
> windows installation but its worked fine up to 7.1 with no special
> installation requirements. I see some discussion that sounds similar to
> this regarding Linux installations so perhaps this is related? Any
> advice gratefuly received!
> 
> 
> graham

I think yo'd need the decoder in the Win world as well, and as a rule
Quicktime ought to get your system fixed? But I am not sure. I had M4a
issues in Linux, never experienced them in Win.


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[slim] Apple Lossless not playing in 7.2 (may be duplicate issue)

[gandt]

Just ungraded to 7.2 to discover my (now somewhat elderly) apple
lossless (not drm just encoded to apple lossless using itunes - usually
with suffix m4a) dont play - just a click then nothing. I am using
Windows Home Server if that might make a differance to the stock
windows installation but its worked fine up to 7.1 with no special
installation requirements. I see some discussion that sounds similar to
this regarding Linux installations so perhaps this is related? Any
advice gratefuly received!


graham


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Nonreality]

Eric Seaberg;290801 Wrote: 
> You know, I'm not done yet.  
> 
> Now, about that pill you're taking

I'd share but I really need them all. ;~(


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Eric Seaberg]

Nonreality;289449 Wrote: 
> Sell it's customers drm encoded music at a semi low bit rate for years
> and put in it's own quality encoder paired with a lousy mp3 encoder. 

You know, I'm not done yet.  

Apple did this because people were ripping off the music industry every
way possible, i.e. Napster, do-dah, etc.  Apple got the record companies
to agree with a form of downloadable music that the masses will pay for
at a fair price and the record companies can work with. The guys that
are screaming about it now do so because they've gotten out of the
'shower' and see what the potential is for downloadable music. Hello...
McFly!!!

Now I'm not saying Apple's DRM is good, I hate it and, if I have the
chance, will purchase a hard-copy so I can rip it lossless, but the
majority of music buyers DON'T CARE!!  THEY WANT IT NOW AND THEY WANT
IT CHEAP!!

They don't want to buy an entire CD because 8 of the 10 tunes on the CD
are crap, so they buy the two tunes they want at $.99 each.  When
artists start doing albums again with 10 AWESOME TRACKS, they'll start
selling complete CDs again!!

I'm glad that you're a quality hound... I've been in the recording
business for 37-years a have stayed in it for the same reason you're
griping about this, but it is A BUSINESS.  If the record companies
can't figure out how to do this, then someone else (like Apple) will
and throw them the bones.  Those of us that still care about quality
music will always have to go a different route than the masses of
humanity.

Now, about that pill you're taking


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Eric Seaberg]

sgard9;289524 Wrote: 
> I think she gets it!
> 
> -- Scott --
> 

Whoever said women were the smarter sex was WAY RIGHT!!!


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Nonreality]

So if I understand you right, everything Apple does or doesn't do is
alright because of people's ignorance?  I guess I can see your point
although I don't think it's the right argument.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Scott Gardner]

I don't use my iPod much as I find I don't like to go around with  
things stuck in my ears. However, my wife uses hers a lot and seem to  
like it quite well. I never hear her complain about  iTunes and she  
seems to do quite well managing her media. I'll let her know about the  
bloated player-organizer and see if she cares. I don't think she's  
even aware of DRM, bit rates and changing firmware. She has never  
voiced any concerns to me about "open source" issues. She also made  
the switch from her Toshiba laptop to a Mac about three years ago.  
Complaining has decreased even though she seems to use it much more  
that she used the Toshiba. I'm personally benefitting as my time spent  
troubleshooting laptop problems has dropped significantly. I think she  
gets it!

-- Scott --

On Apr 9, 2008, at 4:24 AM, Nonreality wrote:

>>
>
> I just don't get it?  The love affair with Apple. I have Ipods and
> they're very nice to a point. To get all the benifits I have to use a
> very bloated player, organizer in Itunes. It does some things very  
> nice
> but other things not well or not at all.  The Ipod database...why.   
> Why
> would you purposely mix  all the data into multiple folders that make
> no sense for manual use, unless it's to make it difficult for people  
> to
> use other programs.  Sell it's customers drm encoded music at a semi  
> low
> bit rate for years and put in it's own quality encoder paired with a
> lousy mp3 encoder. Oh and by the way most other portable players don't
> support our encoder so you better just spend the bucks and buy your
> kids ipods too.  Lets also keep changing firmware so other companies
> that do make programs that can link ipods are always kept well behind.
> It seems that this is even beyond what gave Microsoft such a bad name.
> The Apple fans seem not to notice and keep praising the almighty  
> Apple.
> I just don't get it.
> Oh and another thing, The ability to synchronize multiple players  
> isn't
> the  only thing important to a lot of people. I have one so it doesn't
> matter at  all.  I like the quality of sound, and how I can customize
> the SB. You really think Apple will make theirs open source?  How  
> about
> other file types, get used to converting. I don't mind Apples stuff I
> just like to have some choice in what I play and what programs I can
> use.
> Sorry, I'm done ranting now.
>
>
> -- 
> Nonreality
>
> *-If the rule you followed brought you to this, what good is the  
> rule.-*
> 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Nonreality]

Kuro;289083 Wrote: 
> Basically, I'm running the slimserver on a NAS (Synology DiskStation
> DS-207+).  I'm trying to build a turnkey system for some of the people
> I know.  None of us here wants to have a PC turned on 7x24, hence the
> idea of a NAS as mediaserver.
> 
> I've been watching the slimdevices for many years now, and the Duet is
> my first system.  My feeling is that, this system is still not fool
> proof enough for mass deployment.
> 
> As for my NAS, depsite it is having the best spec possible for a
> personal NAS (Arm 500MHz processor, 128MB RAM), it is simply not fast
> enough to produce a good experience using the Duet with ALAC files.
> 
> I want to use ALAC because I can use Airtune within iTune to distribute
> music via Airport express base station as well.  Seriously, Apple only
> needs to build an interface in iPod Touch to wirelessly control iTune
> on the PC for wireless music distribution via Airport express and
> slimdevices will be doomed.  Airport express is able to synchronize
> music perfectly with multiple receivers.
> 
> Anyway, I've just transcoded all my ALAC files to FLAC now.  Hopefully,
> this should give me a much better experience.

I just don't get it?  The love affair with Apple. I have Ipods and
they're very nice to a point. To get all the benifits I have to use a
very bloated player, organizer in Itunes. It does some things very nice
but other things not well or not at all.  The Ipod database...why.  Why
would you purposely mix  all the data into multiple folders that make
no sense for manual use, unless it's to make it difficult for people to
use other programs.  Sell it's customers drm encoded music at a semi low
bit rate for years and put in it's own quality encoder paired with a
lousy mp3 encoder. Oh and by the way most other portable players don't
support our encoder so you better just spend the bucks and buy your
kids ipods too.  Lets also keep changing firmware so other companies
that do make programs that can link ipods are always kept well behind.
It seems that this is even beyond what gave Microsoft such a bad name.
The Apple fans seem not to notice and keep praising the almighty Apple.
I just don't get it.
Oh and another thing, The ability to synchronize multiple players isn't
the  only thing important to a lot of people. I have one so it doesn't
matter at  all.  I like the quality of sound, and how I can customize
the SB. You really think Apple will make theirs open source?  How about
other file types, get used to converting. I don't mind Apples stuff I
just like to have some choice in what I play and what programs I can
use. 
Sorry, I'm done ranting now.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[funkstar]

How about an Eee Desktop?

http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/03/asus_eee_desktop_coming.html

Not exactly a power house, but still a damned sight more powerful than
a NAS box.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Kuro]

Hi Eric,

The thought of buying a Mac Mini did cross my mind before I went for a
NAS solution.  The problems with Mac Mini are that: 1. it is too
expensive for this application (overkilled), 2. Rumors say either Apple
will drop the Mini or they'll bring out newer models using 3.5" internal
HD.

If I were to go with the Mac Mini, then I want it to be a true media
server with H.264 decoding.  Unfortunately, the video portion of the
Mini is too weak for H.264 decoding.

Maybe slimserver on PS/3?


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[radish]

Kuro;289083 Wrote: 
> Seriously, Apple only needs to build an interface in iPod Touch to
> wirelessly control iTune on the PC for wireless music distribution via
> Airport express and slimdevices will be doomed.

Ahh yes, the SD killer. Was Audiotron, then Roku, then Sonos, then
Media Center, now Apple :)  Apple have already had two goes at media
streaming devices (Airport & AppleTV) and SD are still here. Third
time's the charm?


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Eric Seaberg]

My server is a Mac MINI with external 500GB drive... that's what I
bought it for and it does nothing else.  It's been on 24/7 for 18+
months.  No monitor, no kbd... just power and an ethernet cable.  All
my files are ALAC and transcoded to FLAC without issue.  It boots up,
it works.  

It seems like a plug-n-play solution to me.


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Eric Seaberg - San Diego
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Kuro]

Basically, I'm running the slimserver on a NAS (Synology DiskStation
DS-207+).  I'm trying to build a turnkey system for some of the people
I know.  None of us here wants to have a PC turned on 7x24, hence the
idea of a NAS as mediaserver.

I've been watching the slimdevices for many years now, and the Duet is
my first system.  My feeling is that, this system is still not fool
proof enough for mass deployment.

As for my NAS, depsite it is having the best spec possible for a
personal NAS (Arm 500MHz processor, 128MB RAM), it is simply not fast
enough to produce a good experience using the Duet with ALAC files.

I want to use ALAC because I can use Airtune within iTune to distribute
music via Airport express base station as well.  Seriously, Apple only
need to build an interfact in iPod touch to wirelessly control iTune on
the PC for wireless music distribution via Airport express and
slimdevices will be doomed.  Airport express is able to synchronize
music perfectly with multiple receivers.

Anyway, I've just transcoded all my ALAC files to FLAC now.  Hopefully,
this should give me a much better experience.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[radish]

Kuro;288891 Wrote: 
> I do not see any option in changing from ALAC to WAV.  All I see on the
> streaming column is to disable flac, disable mp3 or disable wav.  I
> disabled the 1st two, and left the last one in, but I still experience
> pauses during the initial stream.
> 

That's the correct approach. The server will automatically select the
"best" format to send to the player from the ones you allow with those
options, with the order of preference being FLAC > WAV > MP3. As others
have mentioned, the problems you're facing are likely due to the ALAC
decoder on your particular hardware.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Peter]

JimC wrote:
Kuro;288891 Wrote: 
  

I do not see any option in changing from ALAC to WAV.  All I see on the
streaming column is to disable flac, disable mp3 or disable wav.  I
disabled the 1st two, and left the last one in, but I still experience
pauses during the initial stream.



As I understand it, that will cause ALAC to be streamed as WAV, not
FLAC.  The problem is more likely the delay in loading the external
decoder rather than in SqueezeCenter.

  

As for false advertising: I got the Duet via your website as mail order.
Before I bought it, I looked at the spec on the Duet on your website
and the word "transcode" was not under the Apple Lossless format.  It
was only mentioned in the mp3 section.  So my claim is not unfounded.



Again, you are levelling a very serious accusation without foundation. 
The product performs per the claims: you can use it to listen to Apple

Lossless on the SBR.  How the specific decoding is achieved is not part
of the product's claims; support for listening to Apple Lossless files
via the SBR is the extent of the claim and is functional on the
supported platforms.

Since you ordered from our website, our 30-day guarantee protects you
if you feel that the product does not meet your needs.  If you are not
satisfied, please contact our inside sales team who will arrange for a
full refund of the purchase price upon return of the product.
  


He's got a point though. When you look at the Duet-specs, you'll notice 
that transcoding is mentioned under compressed formats (bad term BTW, 
since FLAC & ALAC are also compressed), but not under 'Lossless 
Formats'. I don't believe this is intentionally misleading, but it might 
lead people to think that the lossless formats are not transcoded.


http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html#formats

You're right about the 30 day return policy, of course.

Regards,
Peter

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[JimC]

Kuro;288891 Wrote: 
> I do not see any option in changing from ALAC to WAV.  All I see on the
> streaming column is to disable flac, disable mp3 or disable wav.  I
> disabled the 1st two, and left the last one in, but I still experience
> pauses during the initial stream.

As I understand it, that will cause ALAC to be streamed as WAV, not
FLAC.  The problem is more likely the delay in loading the external
decoder rather than in SqueezeCenter.

> As for false advertising: I got the Duet via your website as mail order.
> Before I bought it, I looked at the spec on the Duet on your website
> and the word "transcode" was not under the Apple Lossless format.  It
> was only mentioned in the mp3 section.  So my claim is not unfounded.

Again, you are levelling a very serious accusation without foundation. 
The product performs per the claims: you can use it to listen to Apple
Lossless on the SBR.  How the specific decoding is achieved is not part
of the product's claims; support for listening to Apple Lossless files
via the SBR is the extent of the claim and is functional on the
supported platforms.

Since you ordered from our website, our 30-day guarantee protects you
if you feel that the product does not meet your needs.  If you are not
satisfied, please contact our inside sales team who will arrange for a
full refund of the purchase price upon return of the product.


-=> Jim


-- 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[autopilot]

Kuro;288891 Wrote: 
> 
> 
> At the present moment, my option is to convert all the ALAC files to
> FLAC via dbPoweramp :(
> 

Why's that a problem? Thats what i would do, FLAC's a better format in
some ways anyway and you wont lose any sound quality as both are
lossless. I would set up Foobar2000 to do an over night batch job.

Kuro;288891 Wrote: 
> 
> As for false advertising: I got the Duet via your website as mail
> order.  Before I bought it, I looked at the spec on the Duet on your
> website and the word "transcode" was not under the Apple Lossless
> format.  It was only mentioned in the mp3 section.  So my claim is not
> unfounded.

But SqueezeCenter and the SB's work together as one, much of the
functionality of the Squeezebox 'system' is in the server software -
the SBr etc are thin clients, thats what its all about. Are you going
to claim that every function thats actually handled by the server is
false advertising?


-- 
autopilot

*SlimServer:* 7.0 (Windows XP)
*Players:* Squeezebox 3 (main room) / Squeezebox Receiver (bedroom) /
Softsqueeze (home office).
*Amps:* Cambridge Audio 640a (main room) / Denon MD30 (bedroom) /
Logitech 5.1.
*Speakers:* Mission 701's (living room) / Kef Cresta 1's (bedroom) /
Logitech 5.1's.
*Remotes:* Harmony 525 (IR) / 1 Beta SB Controller / 1 Official Sb
Controller. 

'LAST.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/domrevans/)

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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Kuro]

Thanks to all the replies.

I do not see any option in changing from ALAC to WAV.  All I see on the
streaming column is to disable flac, disable mp3 or disable wav.  I
disabled the 1st two, and left the last one in, but I still experience
pauses during the initial stream.

At the present moment, my option is to convert all the ALAC files to
FLAC via dbPoweramp :(

As for false advertising: I got the Duet via your website as mail
order.  Before I bought it, I looked at the spec on the Duet on your
website and the word "transcode" was not under the Apple Lossless
format.  It was only mentioned in the mp3 section.  So my claim is not
unfounded.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[JimC]

Kuro;288833 Wrote: 
> Why are you guy doing transcoding from ALAC to FLAC?  It seems more
> logical to me the software should simply just decode ALAC to WAV and be
> done with it.  Transcode is going to demand lots of CPU cycles, which
> explains the playback issue I'm having.

We transcode to FLAC to save network bandwidth.  FLAC is going to send
roughly 1/2 the data over the network as WAV.

You can change it to skip the FLAC step and send WAV to the player
using the SqueezeCenter interface.  You'll find it under *Settings >
Advanced > File Types > Apple Lossless*. 

> When I bought the Duet, it was advertised the receiver can play Apple
> Lossess, but it seems it is false advertising, as the receiver itself
> cannot play ALAC, it was SC7 that is doing the decoding.

It is not false advertising... that's an extrememly serious claim.  The
box states that ALAC is supported, not that it is decoded on the
hardware.  The User Guide and our website state that ALAC is supported
via transcoding in several places.   The bottom line is that you *can*
listen to ALAC files via the Squeezebox Receiver, just as stated on the
box.

> Can the ALAC decoder be part of the firmware of the Squeezebox receiver?

Sorry, no.  There are a lot of reasons behind this, but the end result
is that ALAC support is handled via transcoding on the server and that
isn't likely to change in the forseeable future.


-=> Jim


-- 
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[aubuti]

Kuro;288833 Wrote: 
> Why are you guy doing transcoding from ALAC to FLAC?  It seems more
> logical to me the software should simply just decode ALAC to WAV and be
> done with it.  Transcode is going to demand lots of CPU cycles, which
> explains the playback issue I'm having.
Then just change your settings to transcode ALAC to WAV. It's under
Settings > Advanced > File Types > Apple Lossless. 

Before going on about false advertising, consider that the hardware
you're using isn't exactly up to snuff. Transcoding doesn't demand that
many CPU cycles, but your NAS -- and most NASs -- aren't up to the job.
What does yours have, a 500MHz CPU and only 128MB RAM?


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Kuro]

That explains the performance issue I'm having:

I use the Synology DS207+ NAS with SSODS to run SC7.  When I play an
album full of ALAC files, the first track always skips and pauses in
the first 30 secs.  After that, the track seems to play normally. 
Subsequent tracks seem to play fine.  After reading your msg, I rip a
couple albums using FLAC and the skip/pause problem went away.

Why are you guy doing transcoding from ALAC to FLAC?  It seems more
logical to me the software should simply just decode ALAC to WAV and be
done with it.  Transcode is going to demand lots of CPU cycles, which
explains the playback issue I'm having.

I also notice that skipping to the next track is often very slow with
ALAC, taking anywhere from 2 to 5 seconds or more.  With FLAC, it is
almost instantaneous.

When I bought the Duet, it was advertised the receiver can play Apple
Lossess, but it seems it is false advertising, as the receiver itself
cannot play ALAC, it was SC7 that is doing the decoding.

Can the ALAC decoder be part of the firmware of the Squeezebox
receiver?


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[andyg]

ALAC is transcoded to FLAC on the server first, we don't have ALAC
decoding in the firmware.


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[slim] Apple Lossless - who is doing the decode? Squeezebox or SC7?

[Kuro]

I've got the Duet.  My collection is in Apple Lossless (ALAC).

Is the Squeezebox receiver doing the music file decode or SC 7 is doing
the decode?

I'm getting some performance issue and I'd like to pin point the
problem...


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[y360]

Perhaps you don't have latest socketwrapper, see this thread
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36144

Also make sure that your scanned db refs & file system files match


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[forddonald]

After some searching, I tried turning on debug mode 'd-source' and I
finally got some results in the log file.

Here's what I get when playing a .m4a non-DRM file from iTunes Plus
(audio plays normally via Squeezebox):

2007-06-16 15:43:17.8141 openSong on:
file:///Volumes/media/Music/The%20Specials/01%20A%20Message%20to%20You%20Rudy.m4a
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8149 openSong: duration: [173] size: [5521993]
endian [] offset: [0] for
file:///Volumes/media/Music/The%20Specials/01%20A%20Message%20to%20You%20Rudy.m4a
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8159 undermax = 1, type = mov, squeezebox2 =
00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8161 checking formats for:
mov-wma-squeezebox2-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8162 checking formats for:
mov-wma-*-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8162 checking formats for: mov-wma-squeezebox2-*
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8163 checking formats for: mov-wma-*-*
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8163 checking formats for:
mov-ogg-squeezebox2-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8163 checking formats for:
mov-ogg-*-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8164 checking formats for: mov-ogg-squeezebox2-*
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8164 checking formats for: mov-ogg-*-*
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8165 checking formats for:
mov-flc-squeezebox2-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8165 checking formats for:
mov-flc-*-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8166 checking formats for: mov-flc-squeezebox2-*
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8166 checking formats for: mov-flc-*-*
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8167 Checking to see if mov-flc-*-* is enabled
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8168enabled
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8169   Found command: [mov123] $FILE$ | [flac] -cs
--totally-silent --compression-level-0 --endian big --sign signed
--channels 2 --bps 16 --sample-rate 44100 -
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8170 Matched Format: flc Type: mov Command:
[mov123] $FILE$ | [flac] -cs --totally-silent --compression-level-0
--endian big --sign signed --channels 2 --bps 16 --sample-rate 44100 -

2007-06-16 15:43:17.8171 openSong: this is an mov file:
file:///Volumes/media/Music/The%20Specials/01%20A%20Message%20to%20You%20Rudy.m4a
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8171   file type: mov format: flc inrate: 249
maxRate: 0
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8172   command: [mov123] $FILE$ | [flac] -cs
--totally-silent --compression-level-0 --endian big --sign signed
--channels 2 --bps 16 --sample-rate 44100 -
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8180 Using command for conversion:
"/Library/PreferencePanes/SlimServer.prefPane/Contents/server/Bin/darwin/mov123"
"/Volumes/media/Music/The Specials/01 A Message to You Rudy.m4a" |
"/Library/PreferencePanes/SlimServer.prefPane/Contents/server/Bin/darwin/flac"
-cs --totally-silent --compression-level-0 --endian big --sign signed
--channels 2 --bps 16 --sample-rate 44100 - & |
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8259 openSong: Streaming with format: flc
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8433 00:04:20:06:f5:db New play mode: play
2007-06-16 15:43:17.8526 00:04:20:06:f5:db: Current playmode: play
2007-06-16 15:43:18.2232 Got a track starting event
2007-06-16 15:43:18.2237 Song 0 has now started playing
2007-06-16 15:43:18.2254 Song queue is now 0

---*
End of dump
---*

Here's what I see when trying to play a problem song (cues normally but
no audio or progress):

2007-06-16 15:44:18.7734 openSong on:
file:///Volumes/media/Music/The%20English%20Beat/Beat%20This!%20The%20Best%20of%20The%20English%20Beat/01%20Mirror%20In%20The%20Bathroom.m4a
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7741 openSong: duration: [186] size: [18837676]
endian [] offset: [0] for
file:///Volumes/media/Music/The%20English%20Beat/Beat%20This!%20The%20Best%20of%20The%20English%20Beat/01%20Mirror%20In%20The%20Bathroom.m4a
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7747 undermax = 1, type = mov, squeezebox2 =
00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7749 getConvertCommand: track is alac - updating
type!
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7750 checking formats for:
alc-wma-squeezebox2-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7750 checking formats for:
alc-wma-*-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7750 checking formats for: alc-wma-squeezebox2-*
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7751 checking formats for: alc-wma-*-*
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7751 checking formats for:
alc-ogg-squeezebox2-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7752 checking formats for:
alc-ogg-*-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7752 checking formats for: alc-ogg-squeezebox2-*
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7753 checking formats for: alc-ogg-*-*
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7753 checking formats for:
alc-flc-squeezebox2-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7754 checking formats for:
alc-flc-*-00:04:20:06:f5:db
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7754 checking formats for: alc-flc-squeezebox2-*
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7754 checking formats for: alc-flc-*-*
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7755 Checking to see if alc-flc-*-* is enabled
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7756enabled
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7756   Found command: [alac] $FILE$ | [flac] -cs
--totally-silent --compression-level-0 --endian big --sign signed
--channels 2 --bps 16 --sample-rate 44100 -
2007-06-16 15:44:18.7757 Matched Format: flc Type: alc Comm

Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[forddonald]

OK, an update: I was wong before; iTunes Plus non-DRM files play
correctly. These are 128k files updated via the iTunes Plus update
offer to 256k, plucked right out of the iTunes Library directory and
copied to the directory (on the NAS) where all audio files for
SqueezeBox are stored. I don't distinguish between file types in the
Music directory (so permissions, access, etc is all the same).

Turning on 'd_format' debug sounds like a good try, but doing so yeilds
no additional output in the log file. I've reverted back to GA v6.5.2
for testing, as I want to catch the bug (should there be one) in the
release version. I've tried cueing up working and non-working files
with 'd_format' on, and nothing. Perhaps this means there no format
issue here at all?

Just for S&G I turned on the v6.5.2 SlimServer module on the Infrant
box and pointed a SqueezeBox at it rather than the Mac. Same testing
approach as above, with identical results. Since there's no QuickTime
installed on the NAS OS, this leads me more towards a file-related
issue rather than a serving lib or connector issue.

The thing I can't justify is why these same files play normally via
desktop apps and not via SlimServer? If the files are bad, or locked in
some way, why would QuickTime Player play it?

Audio Hijack Pro is a handy tool for capturing audio streams in a Mac
and producing a sound file from it. Lots of folks use it to create
DRM-free sound files from iTunes Store masters. Check it out at
rogueamoeba.com.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[mmonacel]

This is probably related to the issue I was having: [Bug 4019] SB2 plays
wrong track ,says it's playing correct track.  

The issue there is that the file length is too long and is unsupported
by SlimServer (only for m4a files though).  Try to copy your files to
c:\temp, add them to your library and see if they play.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[bpa]

The mov123 app used to decode aac/m4a file is linked into the Quicktime
libraries and has nothing to do with "use iTunes"  checkbox.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[alZmtbr]

If you haven't indicated "use iTunes" then does SS know enough to use
quicktime to transcode the m4a files?

~A


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[Siduhe]

Maybe try turning on the debugging flag '–d_formats', open up the log
file, and then line up a few files to play.  

The output in the logfile may give you a better idea what is happening,
or you can post it here.

Have you ever got these files to play before via SB?  I don't know
Audio Hijack Pro, it is possible it puts some kind of restriction on
the files (like WMP does for its 'secure' ripping) ?

Are the AAC files stored separately from the FLACs ? Couldn't be a
permissions issue at all?


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[forddonald]

SqueezeBox is set up and working nomally. All the FLACs play as
expected. The only difference is if I cue one of these .m4a files,
nothing happens. It *looks* like it wants to play, and under v6.5.2
acts as if it is playing (but no progress on the progress bar or time
change).

Just checked, and the Mac mini has QuickTime 7.1.6 installed. I seem to
remember this all working fine before Apple's latest QT update, but I
couldn't say for sure.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[alZmtbr]

Ya got your volume turned up? 

How are you connected to your stereo? Analog RCA's or thru an external
DAC?

A mystery to solve -- good luck!

~A


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[slim] Apple Lossless (.m4a) files don't play?

[forddonald]

OK, strange behavior from SServer regarding Apple Lossless file
playback. Here's what I see:

Under GA release v6.5.2, a file chosen to play from the SqueezeBox UI
will cue up and appear to be ready to play, but no audio emerges and
the countdown timer doesn't increment. If I leave it, it seems to just
sit there for about the length of time the song would be, then move on
to the next one, and do the same thing (cue but play nothing).

So, I try a nightly build of v6.5.3. Different stuff: I cue an album to
play, it cues up the first song an immediatly skipps on to the next one,
and the next, until it's reached the end of the album, and displays
'stopped'.

I try the same thing from SoftSqueeze, and get the same results. These
same files, from the same source, play nicely in iTunes, QuickTime
Player and Fission.

Some details, if they help:

SlimServer is Mac OS X 6.4.9 via a mini, files are all .m4a made by
Audio Hijack Pro, stored on Infrant NAS.

Any thoughts?


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Re: [slim] apple lossless and stopping intermittently

[Steven Moore]

Yes I thought that it was something like that too, running qt 7.1.6.
I'm going to try running it with the buffer displayed and see if I see
anything.
The music is on an external fw drive.
The strange thing was when I looked at the perl process the other day
whilst the music was playing, it was at around 50% cpu, looking at it
now with the music playing it's under 10%.


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Re: [slim] apple lossless and stopping intermittently

[Eric Seaberg]

It sounds like it's re-buffering.  What version of QuickTime do you
have?  SS uses QuickTime as part of the transcoding process.


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[slim] apple lossless and stopping intermittently

[Steven Moore]

Just recently started to use Apple lossless and I have noticed the music
would stop for around 2 seconds then start again from the place it left
off.
It only happens on Apple lossless, mp3 tracks are fine.
The log shows nothing.
Has anyone else noticed this?

imac g4, 10.4.9, ss 6.5.2, sb1 wired.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - stream format for best sound?

[Richard62]

Thanks very much for your help.

Richard


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless - stream format for best sound?

[kdf]

On 17-Feb-07, at 11:01 AM, Richard62 wrote:

>
> Most of my iTunes (Mac) files are Apple Lossless.
>
> Which file format box should be ticked (Slim Server FILE FORMAT
> CONVERSION SETUP) for the best sound quality on my Squeezebox 3?
>
> FLACalac/flac
> MP3  alac/lame
> WAValac
>
leave all of them ticked.  the Squeezebox3 will request the flac 
conversion first in any case, but leaving them all checked allows you 
the flexibility of having other transcode options if you end up with 
any other clients.  http connections requesting stream.mp3 (itunes, 
winamp, xmms) will request mp3 format, and if you end up with an SB1 
via ebay, it will request WAV.  Unchecking these formats will prevent 
these cases from being able to play alac tracks.

the FLAC format is going to give you the best audio quality for the 
bandwidth.  If you find that for some strange reason, you have cpu 
bottleneck issues because of alac/flac running at the same time, you 
can disable FLAC output, forcing WAV (SB3 will try for WAV if FLAC 
fails)

-kdf

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[slim] Apple Lossless - stream format for best sound?

[Richard62]

Most of my iTunes (Mac) files are Apple Lossless.

Which file format box should be ticked (Slim Server FILE FORMAT
CONVERSION SETUP) for the best sound quality on my Squeezebox 3?

FLACalac/flac
MP3  alac/lame
WAValac

Thanks for your help.


Richard


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[slim] Apple Lossless Files Delay on Playback

[Richard Carrington]

Hi everyone,

I've just purchased a SB3 and I'm very happy with it indeed.

However there is one niggle that I can't seem to fix despite scouring
the threads here for a solution.

When running Apple Lossless files wirelessly into the SB3 the first
fraction of a second is lost before the DAC kick's in and decodes the
audio stream. This happens on every track! other wise playback is
outstanding but this minor glitch is really winding me up and spoiling
my appreciation of an otherwise great piece of kit.
Set-up
My SB3 is connected wirelessly to a server storing the ALAC files
My SB3 is connected via fibre into a Meridian 568.1 pre-amp so is not
using the SB3 DAC.

Any help would be greatly appreciated here.

Rich.


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[slim] Apple lossless on ubuntu linux server

[jsissom]

Hello, I have a sb2 and sb3.  My server is ubuntu linux 5.1.  I'm trying
to get apple lossless files to play.

I followed the directions in the FAQ (I think), but it won't play the
files.

I installed faad and flac on my box.  I changed convert.conf like this:


Code:


  ## you can comment this out if you want to use LAME to transcode AAC/MOV 
files to MP3.
  #mov aif * *
  #   [mov123] $FILE$
  
  mov wav squeezebox *
  [faad] -w -f 2 $FILE$
  
  mov wav squeezebox2 *
  [faad] -w -f 2 $FILE$
  



Then I restarted the slim server.

Unfortunately, the apple lossless files still won't play.  Is there
something I missed?

Thanks
Jay


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[slim] Apple Lossless files best streaming method

[eliw]

If resources are not a problem is the best method of streaming Apple
Lossless files to do it via Mplayer/Flac ?

Is the end result as lossless as it gets ?

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Eliw


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless on SB 2: is there any advantage with the native FLAC?

[Steven Spies]

I also believe that native formats like FLAC on the SB2 allow for fast
forwarding and rewinding while non native formats that need trans
coding do not. That is a HUGE advantage to me.

On 7/2/05, kdf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoting Jim McCall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > Is there any advantage with Apple Lossless files using a SB2 vs. SB1?
> >
> well, if you can handle uncompressed over your wireless setup, or have it 
> wired,
> then SB1 will be less intense as far as CPU since it only uncompresses without
> having to compress back to wav (unless you disable aac->flc for sb2).  The
> analogue audio out is FAR better on the SB2 if you plan to use that
> 
> > I know it natively decodes flac.
> >
> > If there is not advantage, what is the advantage when using FLAC as a
> > source? Is it that you only have to stream the compressed file? So maybe you
> > save 40 to 60% of file network traffic?
> >
> AAC might be preferred if you are tied to iTunes or iPOD's.  HAving flac means
> less cpu usage on the server and, yes 40-60% savings on bandwidth.  Audio
> quality of flac vs apple lossless is really an unending argument :)
> 
> -kdf
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Re: [slim] Apple lossless on SB 2: is there any advantage with the native FLAC?

[kdf]

Quoting Jim McCall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Is there any advantage with Apple Lossless files using a SB2 vs. SB1?
>
well, if you can handle uncompressed over your wireless setup, or have it wired,
then SB1 will be less intense as far as CPU since it only uncompresses without
having to compress back to wav (unless you disable aac->flc for sb2).  The
analogue audio out is FAR better on the SB2 if you plan to use that

> I know it natively decodes flac.
>
> If there is not advantage, what is the advantage when using FLAC as a
> source? Is it that you only have to stream the compressed file? So maybe you
> save 40 to 60% of file network traffic?
>
AAC might be preferred if you are tied to iTunes or iPOD's.  HAving flac means
less cpu usage on the server and, yes 40-60% savings on bandwidth.  Audio
quality of flac vs apple lossless is really an unending argument :)

-kdf
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[slim] Apple lossless on SB 2: is there any advantage with the native FLAC?

[Jim McCall]

Is there any advantage with Apple Lossless files using a SB2 vs. SB1?

I know it natively decodes flac.

If there is not advantage, what is the advantage when using FLAC as a
source? Is it that you only have to stream the compressed file? So maybe you
save 40 to 60% of file network traffic?

Thanks,
Jim


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[slim] apple lossless

[Scott]

I have os x 10.3
slimserver 6.1
sb1

I can get AAC to play, but lossless doesnt work at all.  Slimserver
recognizes the track, tries to play it, then skips over the track.

Any suggestions?

sb


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless

[Phil Karn]

Frank Xavier Ledo wrote:
First, It seems that all songs start out with a pop.  I am guessing that 
the command line options I set in convert.conf were incorrect and are 
resulting in a linefeed or space at the start of the song.

What I used is:
mov wav squeezebox *
[alac] $FILE$
As a test I tried using alac to convert the file from *.m4a to *.wav, and 
added the wav file to my playlist.  There were no pops.

Second, alac supports PCM output.  Is there any benefit to using this 
instead of wav output?
The "pop" is almost certainly the sound of the WAV file header being 
misinterpreted as raw PCM audio. Try selecting raw PCM output from alac 
and see if the problem goes away.

Are you sure you're using the convert.conf entry you gave above, and 
aren't actually transcoding to another format?

In the convert.conf file entries that pipe two codecs together to 
transcode from one compressed format to another, the two codecs must 
agree on their interchange format. The existing convention *seems* to be 
raw little-endian 16-bit stereo PCM *without* a WAV header. If the first 
program outputs wav format when the second expects raw PCM, you'll get 
the pop.

I'm not exactly sure which native format the Squeezebox 1 expects, WAV 
or raw PCM. Anybody know?

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[slim] Apple Lossless - User Genre Tags - 5.4

[GregD]

I'm sure this has come up before - but in a search the only thing I
could find related to an itunes related problem.

I'm re-ripping using Apple Lossless. Slimserver 5.4 picks up everything
fine, except the Genre Tags where I have typed my own Genre.

EG I use a genre of 'Jazz Vocal' or 'Indie'. These show up fine in
iTunes - and I checked a couple in tag & rename. So I'm pretty sure the
tage are getting into the files OK.

However in Slimserver these tracks show up as 'No Genre' in the genre
brouse.

I've turned off the iTunes link on this (server) machine - since it
slows stuff down and I'm really just using iTunes as a ripper.


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[slim] Apple Lossless

[Frank Xavier Ledo]

I recently purchased a used SB1 from a coworker upgraded to an SB2.

Since purchasing it I have tried and failed to get SlimServer running on 
Linux to play Apple Lossless files.  I tried FAAD (various versions as 
suggested by many sources) and got nowhere fast (could not find stream in 
... blah blah blah).

Today on a whim I did yet another Google search and found this:

http://crazney.net/programs/itunes/alac.html

Worked on the first try.

I am having a couple issues though that maybe somebody could help with:

First, It seems that all songs start out with a pop.  I am guessing that 
the command line options I set in convert.conf were incorrect and are 
resulting in a linefeed or space at the start of the song.

What I used is:
mov wav squeezebox *
[alac] $FILE$

As a test I tried using alac to convert the file from *.m4a to *.wav, and 
added the wav file to my playlist.  There were no pops.

Second, alac supports PCM output.  Is there any benefit to using this 
instead of wav output?

Thanks in advance for any advice on the above issues.  I hope someone who 
was looking for a decoder for Apple Lossless finds this useful.

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[Robin Bowes]

Chris Glushko wrote:
But, what if you have a very large music collection
and use an iPod where you interchange tracks often? 
This would mean that for every new track you want on
your ipod, you'll have to go to your flac library,
decompress the file, import it into iTunes, tag it in
iTunes, compress it to the format of choice and then
place the file on your iPod.
...or write a script to convert flac to mp3 automatically:
http://robinbowes.com/filemgmt/visit.php?lid=5
R.
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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[Chris Glushko]

 
> aac is allegedly better but I don't think the iPod
> has the sound
> quality to really tell the difference between aac
> and mp3 at the same
> bitrate. I could of course be wrong.

Sound quality on the iPod isn't an issue.  I agree the
difference between AAC and MP3 on the ipod is most
likely negligible 99 percent of the time.
> 
> I don't know where you live, but in the U.S. hard
> drives are cheap
> enough that it isn't issue keeping both lossy and
> lossless.

Storage space isn't an issue either.

> 
> For uploading to the iPod - I don't use iTunes, I
> use gtkpod - it's
> not quite as well integrated as iTunes is, but it
> also doesn't care
> how many computers I have set to sync with it - I
> can use the music
> withing gtkpod on any number of PC's, which is nice
> because I can play
> the iPod playlists from the iPod through the better
> sound card of
> whatever computer I happen to be using - and Apple's
> BS of only
> allowing the iPod to connect to one computer for one
> user doesn't get
> in my way of me playing my legally obtained music.

As long as your iPod isn't set to auto sync, you won't
have issues using it on another computer.  And auto
sync would be useless for me as I have way too much
music to fit on the ipod.
> 
> I don't know how close they are, but there is a
> sourceforge project
> for a flac plugin for QuickTime. There exists one
> for ogg, which does
> let you play ogg in iTunes - last time I used it
> (year ago or so) it
> had a tendency to skip a lot and iTunes didn't
> understant vorbis tags.
> But maybe the tag thing is resolved, and maybe the
> flac plugin has
> been released - it's worth looking at if you really
> do want to use
> iTunes for your music.

I see you point, but my point is that using iTunes to
manage my music in Apple lossless works well and I
suffer no audio quality loss.  Plus its far simpler
for loading stuff onto the ipod.  I don't believe in
the theory that apple lossless is just going to
disappear one day, so besides that are there any
drawbacks of managing all my music in iTunes and
storing my music in Apple Lossless besides the fact
that its too convenient?
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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:06:14 -0800 (PST), Chris Glushko
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I don't use Apple Lossless for the iPod.  I keep all
> the files in Appple Lossless on iTunes.  When I want
> to put something on the iPod, I just convert the files
> to AAC in iTunes, transfer them and then delete the
> AAC files from the computer.

I keep all my music lossless flac and keep a second directory with
lame encoded versions of that lossless (I just use --preset standard)

aac is allegedly better but I don't think the iPod has the sound
quality to really tell the difference between aac and mp3 at the same
bitrate. I could of course be wrong.

I don't know where you live, but in the U.S. hard drives are cheap
enough that it isn't issue keeping both lossy and lossless.

For uploading to the iPod - I don't use iTunes, I use gtkpod - it's
not quite as well integrated as iTunes is, but it also doesn't care
how many computers I have set to sync with it - I can use the music
withing gtkpod on any number of PC's, which is nice because I can play
the iPod playlists from the iPod through the better sound card of
whatever computer I happen to be using - and Apple's BS of only
allowing the iPod to connect to one computer for one user doesn't get
in my way of me playing my legally obtained music.

I don't know how close they are, but there is a sourceforge project
for a flac plugin for QuickTime. There exists one for ogg, which does
let you play ogg in iTunes - last time I used it (year ago or so) it
had a tendency to skip a lot and iTunes didn't understant vorbis tags.
But maybe the tag thing is resolved, and maybe the flac plugin has
been released - it's worth looking at if you really do want to use
iTunes for your music.


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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[Chris Glushko]

> iTunes.  A bit of script can drive command-line
> tools to convert FLAC to 

And for those who don't know any code?

> 
> Also, isn't it a bit wasteful to use Apple Lossless
> encoding for iPod 
> playback?  Doesn't it result in decreased music
> storage ability, longer 
> transfer times onto the iPod and higher rates of
> battery consumption? 
> Can you hear the difference when playing back
> through the chip-based 
> amplifier in the iPod, into portable headphones, in
> often noisy 
> listening environments?

I don't use Apple Lossless for the iPod.  I keep all
the files in Appple Lossless on iTunes.  When I want
to put something on the iPod, I just convert the files
to AAC in iTunes, transfer them and then delete the
AAC files from the computer.

> I don't mean to criticize your choices, but did want
> to illustrate that 
> there are trade-offs with either method that are
> independent of the 
> open-source/proprietary arguments.

Feel free to critcize.  I'm sure most people on this
list have more expertise than I.  To me personally,
the only benefit of FLAC in my setup is the SB2's
ability to decode it natively.  Otherwise, Apple
Lossless seems to be the optimal choice given that I
frequently change the contents of my iPod and I like
using iTunes for cataloging my music.

Ideally, I'd love to keep all my music in FLAC and use
OGG for my portable.  But that won't happen until a
portable that supports OGG can compare with the iPod
and I can find a music manager that I personally like
more than iTunes (that happens to be compatible with
the portable player, FLAC and OGG).



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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[ron thigpen]

Chris Glushko wrote:
But, what if you have a very large music collection
and use an iPod where you interchange tracks often? 
This would mean that for every new track you want on
your ipod, you'll have to go to your flac library,
decompress the file, import it into iTunes, tag it in
iTunes, compress it to the format of choice and then
place the file on your iPod.
Not really.  There are easier ways if you are willing to jump outside of 
iTunes.  A bit of script can drive command-line tools to convert FLAC to 
  formats that the iPod can play.  Tags need not be lost in conversion. 
 And if you have the storage space, keep both FLAC and lossy versions. 
 This is perhaps sub-optimal, but is not as bad as the process you've 
described.

Also, isn't it a bit wasteful to use Apple Lossless encoding for iPod 
playback?  Doesn't it result in decreased music storage ability, longer 
transfer times onto the iPod and higher rates of battery consumption? 
Can you hear the difference when playing back through the chip-based 
amplifier in the iPod, into portable headphones, in often noisy 
listening environments?

Unfortunately, iPod and SB2 have different capabilities when it comes to 
lossless.  iPod doesn't do FLAC at all, and SB2 doesn't do Apple 
Lossless natively.  And any lossless format makes more sense for high 
fidelity playback and archival purposes than it does for use in portables.

I don't mean to criticize your choices, but did want to illustrate that 
there are trade-offs with either method that are independent of the 
open-source/proprietary arguments.

I'm facing the same issue myself and will probably go the double storage 
route until a portable player comes along the changes the equation.

--rt
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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[PAUL WILLIAMSON]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/30/05 4:37 PM >>>
> But, what if you have a very large music 
> collection and use an iPod where you interchange 
> tracks often?  This would mean that for every 
> new track you want on your ipod, you'll have to 
> go to your flac library, decompress the file, import 
> it into iTunes, tag it in iTunes, compress it to the 
> format of choice and then place the file on your iPod.

I transcode to mp3 in a mirrored type of directory 
as a nightly cron job.  MP3 is good enough for 
portable music (for me) and it's the only format that 
all my music exists in.  I have FLAC for CD rips, 
and WAV for tape and vinyl.  Everything gets 
put to mp3 so I can listen on my Archos.  I've been 
thinking about an ipod, but refuse to use iTunes 
to manage the songs on it.  I have friends that 
have ipods and use ipodlinux and love it.

> I have no problems with FLAC (and the fact that 
> theSB2 natively supports FLAC has me drooling), 
> but the ability to keep all my music in iTunes in a 
> lossless format keeps me using Apple Lossless (even 
> if I have sold my soul to the devil).  

LOL...that's funny.  My only fear of going the ipod 
route is that one of the reasons for going there is 
I have an Alpine head unit in my car, and having 
the ability to control my portable music player from 
the head unit where I have a remote for my other 
passengers to fight over would be really cool.

> - Chris

> ps - I know someone is going to bring up the fact 
>  that there are alternatives to the iPod, like the 
> iRiver.  However, I've found that the iRiver for 
> all it can do is nowhere near as good of a portable 
> music player.  In addition, iTunes is a great 
> program for cataloging your music collection.
> 

I totally agree.  There's a reason Apple hires 
lots of industrial designers.  Their hardware 
is the coolest and just about the most well-designed 
stuff in the industry.  iTunes is ok for keeping 
track of music.  I've been thinking about using 
it for my mp3 collection, but can't bring myself 
to do it.

> pss - Aren't you being a little over dramatic in 
> your scenario above?  I highly doubt Apple 
> Lossless is just going to disappear one day in 
> the blink of an eye with nothing left on the 
> planet to support it.

Am I?  Apple has already lost one battle 
in the courts and promised to stay out of 
music.  If it weren't for Michael's distractions 
lately, who knows?  Maybe Apple vs. Apple 
will be the next great Groklaw debate.

If there's no corporation backing iTunes 
or Apple Lossless, how long do you think 
the format would survive?  I don't see too 
many open source projects for DRM out there...

(stirring the DRM pot again...)

Paul

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[Chris Glushko]

> What happens when Apple Computer loses any court 
> battle with Apple Records and is forced to either
> get out 
> of the music business or give its music technology
> to 
> Apple Records?
> 
> I love Apple, but I hate their music distribution
> ideas 
> and anything having to do with proprietary formats.
> 
> Go FLAC, you'll never go back.  Another good thing 
> is that if you go with flac, the decode is happening
> 
> on the sb2.  With apple lossless, the decode is 
> happening on the server.

But, what if you have a very large music collection
and use an iPod where you interchange tracks often? 
This would mean that for every new track you want on
your ipod, you'll have to go to your flac library,
decompress the file, import it into iTunes, tag it in
iTunes, compress it to the format of choice and then
place the file on your iPod.

I have no problems with FLAC (and the fact that the
SB2 natively supports FLAC has me drooling), but the
ability to keep all my music in iTunes in a lossless
format keeps me using Apple Lossless (even if I have
sold my soul to the devil).  

- Chris

ps - I know someone is going to bring up the fact that
there are alternatives to the iPod, like the iRiver. 
However, I've found that the iRiver for all it can do
is nowhere near as good of a portable music player. 
In addition, iTunes is a great program for cataloging
your music collection.

pss - Aren't you being a little over dramatic in your
scenario above?  I highly doubt Apple Lossless is just
going to disappear one day in the blink of an eye with
nothing left on the planet to support it.


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