Re: [Drakelist] Sidetones (was Ten-Tec and Drake Compared)
- Original Message - From: "Garey Barrell" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Sidetones (was Ten-Tec and Drake Compared) Darrell - Most equipment sold before the early 1960's was NOT 'integrated'. I would say the vast majority of ham stations had a receiver made by one company and a transmitter either homebrewed or made by another company. Johnson and WRL didn't make receivers, and National and Hammarlund didn't make transmitters. There were exceptions, but most did one or the other. Just about all receivers had a pair of terminals that had to be shorted to activate the receiver if the front panel switch was in STANDBY, and just about all transmitters (or their associated antenna relays) had a pair of contacts to control the receiver. Most electronic keyers had monitors built into them, and Bud and a few others made external boxes that sensed RF and generated a sidetone. A lot of us would listen to the transformer hum when the transmitter was keyed as our 'monitor'. Collins radios were among the first to be 'integrated' with receivers and transmitters designed to work together, but even those didn't ALL have sidetone. On the other hand, once the S-Line, Drake 4 Line, Heath SB pair, etc. came along, everything was working together and sidetone was standard. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs That is something that had not occured to me believe it or not. I think that Collins was probably the first to "integrate" their equipment, especially the 75A and 32V series. The first two versions of the 32V did have side tone, it was dropped in the 32V3 supposedly because they could not get sufficent TVI suppression with it. All of the big three made transmitters at one time or another, especially National for the Navy, but only Hallicrafters made them as a main part of their catalogue. I think all of these were crystal controlled TX with no VFO being offered. There _were_ some separate VFO's, the Meissner (Sp?) Signal Shifter being one of the earliest. Hallicrafters eventually offered a VFO that could be used with a variety of rigs or as a stand alone exciter. I am not sure when the Viking Ranger came out first but it had a built-in VFO and was complete in one package. Collins OTOH, did not make ham or general coverage receivers before the end of WW-2 although they made special purpose receivers for point to point and aeronautical use. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickb...@ix.netcom.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Drakelist Digest, Vol 36, Issue 26
On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:36:51 -0600, TC Dailey wrote:
>Steve brought up a radio that's quite overlooked, but was the ORIGINAL
>transceiver for hams - the Gonset G-76. It was pretty (still is),
Wow, that is a nice looking rig. For some reason, I just never could get past
that utilitarian military look of the Collins. I know that some people find it
attractive, I just don't so much. Of course, the group of young hams that I ran
with in high school all lusted after the C-Line ("poor man's Collins"). Collins
was way out of reach then, but the Drakes ... maybe someday. The C-Line was
more visually appealing anyway, and the TR-7 just looked classy.
My journey started with a Hallicrafters S-120. I wouldn't wish that radio on my
worst enemy, I'm probably lucky that it didn't sour me to the idea entirely. I
"upgraded" to a used Heath HR-10B. I don't recall using it very much, but at
least it was an improvement. When my ticket was imminent, my parents consented
to a third-owner HW-101, which I used for many years. Not a bad radio to start
with, and I learned a lot about electronics through abusing it and fixing my
mistakes. Got Bicentennial WAS on 75 meters in 1976 with that radio. Around
that time, cheap FT-101Bs started hitting the market thanks to the 11 Meter
crowd, and I begged my parents for one. Luckily for me, they declined - later
experiences with Yaesu receivers of that general era convinced me that I was
better off with the Heathkit anyway. (No offense meant to Yaesu fans: yes it is
was sensitve, etc., but they just weren't very "listenable", nor were they good
contesting rigs.)
Second rig was a nice Swan 700cx that I wish I still had. I was disappointed
that it did not live up to the Swan hype about being a driftbox, it was much
too stable. I eventually shed the tube rigs after I acquired a used TR-7 from
Al W0JJK at H-I in the mid 80s, and never looked back. The C-Line I lusted
after as a broke teenager eventually surfaced, along with a TR-6 and the rest
of the Drake collection later.
I've added a few other non-Drake rigs to the stable since, and all have their
individual charm. But if I had to trim down to one or two, the Drake 7 twins
and C twins would be the ones I keep. I've used more "modern" rigs at Field Day
and SS operations, but keep coming back to my Drakes.
And yes, my TR-7 has been invited back to do Field Day again from K0KKV on the
big 4-el 20 Meter beam. And they do have "modern" rigs that they COULD use
:)
I don't think I would do anything differently, other than keeping that 700cx.
The HW-101 was a great starter rig, and each step beyond that was arguably a
step up to something better or more sophisticated
A side note on Collins, I've never operated one (although I do own a Motorola
R-390A awaitng refurb). A buddy has an S-Line in the closet. What does he use?
He has, I think, four TR-7s at last count, three NCX-5s, and various
Hallicrafters, B&W, and who knows what else that he plays with.
73
-Jim
--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A,
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!
"Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he
will learn for a lifetime."
HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org
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Re: [Drakelist] Drakelist Digest, Vol 36, Issue 26
Steve brought up a radio that's quite overlooked, but was the ORIGINAL transceiver for hams - the Gonset G-76. It was pretty (still is), and worked darned well. I've always lusted for one, so someday when I see one at a 'fest - I'll grab it. A pity that it didn't include SSB, as it would have been REAL competition for everybody else. Tom - W0EAJ ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Sidetones (was Ten-Tec and Drake Compared)
Darrell - Most equipment sold before the early 1960's was NOT 'integrated'. I would say the vast majority of ham stations had a receiver made by one company and a transmitter either homebrewed or made by another company. Johnson and WRL didn't make receivers, and National and Hammarlund didn't make transmitters. There were exceptions, but most did one or the other. Just about all receivers had a pair of terminals that had to be shorted to activate the receiver if the front panel switch was in STANDBY, and just about all transmitters (or their associated antenna relays) had a pair of contacts to control the receiver. Most electronic keyers had monitors built into them, and Bud and a few others made external boxes that sensed RF and generated a sidetone. A lot of us would listen to the transformer hum when the transmitter was keyed as our 'monitor'. Collins radios were among the first to be 'integrated' with receivers and transmitters designed to work together, but even those didn't ALL have sidetone. On the other hand, once the S-Line, Drake 4 Line, Heath SB pair, etc. came along, everything was working together and sidetone was standard. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Darrell Bellerive wrote: I notice that most vintage receivers provide a mute, at least the ones I've seen, yet it's use doesn't seem to be that popular. Was this just because the transmitters lacked sidetone or was there other reasons such as timing or poor recovery? 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO On 06/17/11 14:48, leecra...@aol.com wrote: Darrell, I agree with you 100% on the lack of sidetone, etc. on vintage equipment. When I completed my "ultimate boatanchor CW transmitter" last year, I included sidetone, pumped through the matching homebrew receiver's audio and well as the muting you mentioned. 73 Lee WB6SSW ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
roncasa wrote: Garey Barrell wrote: One thing about Ten-Tec gear. The 'word' in the Ham community was that, 'The good news is that Ten-Tec has an outstanding service department, with friendly, helpful techs readily available. They very often will ship a replacement board on the promise that you would send back the defective one.' 'The bad news is, you are almost certainly going to NEED that outstanding service department!' Let's be fair the same is true for other manufacturers of ham radio products regarding reliability The difference here is that you could almost repair TT radio at home. You could be back on the air in no time. On the other hand, you may have to send other radio brands for service and wait weeks. Ron - Perhaps. All I can say is that in 50 years of using Drake equipment, only twice did I need to purchase a unique part from Drake to repair a radio. Other minor repairs were required over the years, but all were accomplished with locally available resistors and/or capacitors, with an occasional diode or transistor thrown in. I ran three R-4A/B setups for almost three years, 24/7 in autostart RTTY service with only one 'failure', and open filament in a 12BY7. Yes, a few PA tubes had to be replaced as the transmitters were run at full power, with keydown periods of up to 30 minutes. By contrast, it seemed like everyone I knew who had Ten-Tec equipment was often praising their 'excellent service support'. :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Drakelist Digest, Vol 36, Issue 25
Aside from the Ford spark-coil, hooked up to a long wire, and using the SW band of a Phico "Fiver" to make that first one (got in REAL trouble with everybody except the FCC), I'm right there with Eddy. My first rig was a really ugly 5Y3 with a 6AG7 "final" sitting atop an honest-to-goodness bread pan, and a Heathkit AR-3. The beauty of such broad-banded radios AND crystal control, was that you couldn't help but learn how to HUNT for the guy calling you - while he was HUNTING for YOU. Later came a Heath AT-1 & an old NC-100 - first "real" rig was a Central Electronics 20A, with the converted ARC-5 VFO, a 600L linear (they should have called it the 600 LB )and a 1941 Super Pro, the combination of which, nearly filled the kitchen of my apartment - who cooked, then? Me, I wanted a basement full of RACKS - all HB, and all wrinkle-black, with meters and tons of knobs, looking like a WW-II battleship. 1971 brought the SWAN 500C, and a world of really HOT DX. Tom - W0EAJ ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
Started about the same way. 1959. DX-40, one 7198 crystal, and a borrowed BC-455. When I upgraded to a BC-312N, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. After passing the General the next year I was rewarded with a 2nd hand SX-100. Used the DX-40 well into high school until I was presented with a Globe Champion 350 my dad found for sale for $25! Never owned a Drake of any kind until I started collecting and using the catalog contents of my youth. Been through a lot if it including some of the marine products. All time favorites are the 1-A and 2-B. All that's left of that today is a TR-7/RV-75 which I keep as a backup radio. Grant/NQ5T > > My first rig was a command set receiver on 40 meters along with a factory > built Knight T-60 bought from another more affluent teenage ham. ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
My first rig actually was a Drake - a TR-3. I was happy with it at the time, it and an AC-3 and MS were pretty cheap back in 76. Knowing what I know now, yes, I probably would have gotten something else. The worst part of the TR-3 was that it was a terrible CW rig: no filter, no break-in (not even semi), no RIT, and no sidetone. I made do by using a code practice oscillator as a sidetone, but the T/R switching was terrible. I got a Yaesu FT-101EE within a year and sold the Drake. The Yeasu was really more fun to operate than the TR-3. But I always liked Drake stuff and used it a good bit at other stations, so I imagine I would much rather have had a pair of Drake twinsOTOH, the price of the TR-3 really made getting on the air do-able. I doubt I'll ever own another TR-3 as almost all of my operating is CW and the TR-3 was just so unpleasant on CW. Which is probably why I've gotten an R-4...same vibe as the TR-3, but much better to operate...particularly when I match it up with a T-4X, which I hope to do someday. 73 de Lee, AA4GA -- Lee Hiers Have dobro will travel...and traveling! ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
I have a friend that has had Ten Tec equipment since the 1970s and I would agree completely with Garey's "word in the Ham community". Every one of his rigs has spent a lot of ground time (truck time) going to Tennessee and back. It's also true about the outstanding service department too. He's happy about it. On 6/17/11 5:51 PM, roncasa wrote: Garey Barrell wrote: One thing about Ten-Tec gear. The 'word' in the Ham community was that, 'The good news is that Ten-Tec has an outstanding service department, with friendly, helpful techs readily available. They very often will ship a replacement board on the promise that you would send back the defective one.' 'The bad news is, you are almost certainly going to NEED that outstanding service department!' Let's be fair the same is true for other manufacturers of ham radio products regarding reliability The difference here is that you could almost repair TT radio at home. You could be back on the air in no time. On the other hand, you may have to send other radio brands for service and wait weeks. 72 Ron, wb1hga "God sneezed. I didn't know what to say to him " ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
My first rig was a command set receiver on 40 meters along with a factory built Knight T-60 bought from another more affluent teenage ham. My antenna was a Gotham V-80 vertical mounted on a redwood 4x4. The antenna was a birthday present from my parents. I was on the air for less than $100, which was still a large sum for a sophomore in high school in 1963. I put a power supply on the back of the ARC-5 using the info from an article in Popular Electronics. I also set up the first IF stage in the receiver so that it was regenerative as those receivers had a virtually no selectivity. The only part of this station I still have is the Johnson straight key, which I have never liked. I have never used a Collins rig, though one fellow in my home town had a KWM2. He also owned a string of mens' stores, and a yacht, which he used to travel the world with the Collins rig. I really wanted a National HRO50, and I have had two of them, since. The rig I still have that I used for years is a Gonset G-76 transceiver. I have owned that one since 1965. I am in the process of restoring it. The Drake rig that I really like is the 2B. I got mine some years back on e-bay, and really like it. I pair it with an old Gonset GSB-100 phasing exciter, and they work very well together. I hooked both of them up to my Tapetone 6 meter receiving converter and my P&H transmitting converter, and had a great time on 6 meters. I worked Greenland with them. That little receiver beats any other tube type receiver that I have ever used. I do not have it in action right now due to space constraints. I mainly use Ten Tec equipment now. I have an Omni V.9 hooked to an Elecraft 6 meter transverter and an ancient Mirage amp for 6 meters, and a Corsair II for HF. I also have 2 of the Argonaut II QRP rigs that tend to get a lot of use, both on HF and as a tunable IF for transverters. I worked all continents with one hooked to a Ten Tec transverter and a 4 element beam during the peak of the last F2 cycle. Not bad for 8 watts. When I get more room, I would like to get the old stuff back on the air again, and I have since acquired some command sets for 80 and 40 meters to get put back in service. I don't know if I am going to start looking for another T-60 or Heath DX20 yet... Not being a contest operator, I am not sure whether I would get much use from a Drake C line. But, every so often I get the itch to try out a B line. Time will tell. Steve WA9JML ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
Garey Barrell wrote: One thing about Ten-Tec gear. The 'word' in the Ham community was that, 'The good news is that Ten-Tec has an outstanding service department, with friendly, helpful techs readily available. They very often will ship a replacement board on the promise that you would send back the defective one.' 'The bad news is, you are almost certainly going to NEED that outstanding service department!' Let's be fair the same is true for other manufacturers of ham radio products regarding reliability The difference here is that you could almost repair TT radio at home. You could be back on the air in no time. On the other hand, you may have to send other radio brands for service and wait weeks. 72 Ron, wb1hga "God sneezed. I didn't know what to say to him " ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
When I got my novice ('64) I was 13 and a freshman in high school. I started
with a R55A (mowed lots of yards) and a DX40 (present from dad for passing
the novice). I have a copy of that station today. I have since gone through
the gold dust twins and have two "S" lines, a supper nice Drake "C" line,
and an R7, R388 along with other stuff (knight regens). But alas, an hour
ago, my K3 kit arrived and it will replace the broken FT1000 (probably
gonna be a parts unit ... note ... the Drake and Collins still work and can
easily still be fixed). If I started over again in the 60's I would stay
with the DX40 and opt for the 2B/2BQ (had one, mistakenly sold it).
After reading the original post that got this fascinating thread started, I
am going to get off of dead center and listen to the 75S3B and the R4C
(unmodified) to see how they compare. I am primarily a low band CW op here.
73, Mike WA5POK
-Original Message-
From: Mark Nace
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:22 PM
To: John Hudson ; Darrell Bellerive ; drakelist@zerobeat.net
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again,what
would your first station be?
25 years ago my first rig was a used Drake TR-7 from Burghardt Amateur
Center,
and I still have it. Antenna was a G5RV and a B&W 300 watt tuner from
Madison
(downtown Houston at the time). Worked the world with it. About 12 years
ago I
started restoring tube gear, and most of you know what that means...Many
fine-working radios saved from the scrap heap, and no more room at the QTH
for
any more (not to mention a VERY patient XYL) !!!
73
Mark
N5KAE
- Original Message
From: John Hudson
To: Darrell Bellerive ;
"drakelist@zerobeat.net"
Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:47:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again,
what
would your first station be?
My first HAM rig was borrowed from a mentor (Tom Roberts WA6YKE/AC5RD)who
was
helping me get my HAM license it was a Knight T-60 transmitter and HRO-60
receiver. I was 13 at the time, then my dad and I found an HW-16 working,
bought
a HG-10B VFO which became the first station I owned. At 16 my Dad bought me
a
Yaesu FT-101B which I still have. As I said in an earlier post, in high
school I
was given the opportunity to purchase a HAM station for Helix High School
here
in La Mesa, CA. the station was a Drake TR-4C, RV-4C, MS-4, and W-4 watt
meter
(I'd sure like to know where that rig went). I'm not sure I'd change
anything we
did, perhaps instead of the Yaesu I would have asked for the Drake Twins
but the
old FT-101B has stood the test of time..
Then again Darrell wouldn't we all like to have known then what we know
now;
"Dad lets buy stock in this new company called Microsoft" ;-)
De WA6HYQ
-Original Message-
From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net
[mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On
Behalf Of Darrell Bellerive
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:08 PM
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Subject: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what
would
your first station be?
The threads about the comparisons of the Drake, Collins, etc. has got me
thinking about my first receiver and station.
Licenced at the age of 15 back in 1975, I bought used gear from the
local club members, not giving any thought as to what was great, good,
or bad in terms of design or performance. It was available and so that's
what I got.
If I knew then, what I know now, my first receiver and station would
have been totally different. If I could have afforded it a new Drake
R-4B or if money was not available, a used Drake 2B would have been my
first receiver rather than the Hallicrafters SX-140.
So if you knew then what you know now, what would have been your first
station and what year would it have been?
73,
Darrell Bellerive
Amateur Radio Station VA7TO
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Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
I chose TT Century 21 over Drake and would do it again. The reason is primary cost. 72 Ron, wb1hga ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
25 years ago my first rig was a used Drake TR-7 from Burghardt Amateur Center, and I still have it. Antenna was a G5RV and a B&W 300 watt tuner from Madison (downtown Houston at the time). Worked the world with it. About 12 years ago I started restoring tube gear, and most of you know what that means...Many fine-working radios saved from the scrap heap, and no more room at the QTH for any more (not to mention a VERY patient XYL) !!! 73 Mark N5KAE - Original Message > From: John Hudson > To: Darrell Bellerive ; "drakelist@zerobeat.net" > > Sent: Fri, June 17, 2011 2:47:40 PM > Subject: Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what >would your first station be? > > My first HAM rig was borrowed from a mentor (Tom Roberts WA6YKE/AC5RD)who was >helping me get my HAM license it was a Knight T-60 transmitter and HRO-60 >receiver. I was 13 at the time, then my dad and I found an HW-16 working, >bought >a HG-10B VFO which became the first station I owned. At 16 my Dad bought me a >Yaesu FT-101B which I still have. As I said in an earlier post, in high school >I >was given the opportunity to purchase a HAM station for Helix High School here >in La Mesa, CA. the station was a Drake TR-4C, RV-4C, MS-4, and W-4 watt meter >(I'd sure like to know where that rig went). I'm not sure I'd change anything >we >did, perhaps instead of the Yaesu I would have asked for the Drake Twins but >the >old FT-101B has stood the test of time.. > > Then again Darrell wouldn't we all like to have known then what we know now; >"Dad lets buy stock in this new company called Microsoft" ;-) > > De WA6HYQ > > -Original Message- > From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] > On >Behalf Of Darrell Bellerive > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:08 PM > To: drakelist@zerobeat.net > Subject: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what > would >your first station be? > > The threads about the comparisons of the Drake, Collins, etc. has got me > thinking about my first receiver and station. > > Licenced at the age of 15 back in 1975, I bought used gear from the > local club members, not giving any thought as to what was great, good, > or bad in terms of design or performance. It was available and so that's > what I got. > > If I knew then, what I know now, my first receiver and station would > have been totally different. If I could have afforded it a new Drake > R-4B or if money was not available, a used Drake 2B would have been my > first receiver rather than the Hallicrafters SX-140. > > So if you knew then what you know now, what would have been your first > station and what year would it have been? > > 73, > Darrell Bellerive > Amateur Radio Station VA7TO > > ___ > Drakelist mailing list > Drakelist@zerobeat.net > http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist > > ___ > Drakelist mailing list > Drakelist@zerobeat.net > http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist > ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Sidetones (was Ten-Tec and Drake Compared)
- Original Message - From: "Darrell Bellerive" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Sidetones (was Ten-Tec and Drake Compared) I notice that most vintage receivers provide a mute, at least the ones I've seen, yet it's use doesn't seem to be that popular. Was this just because the transmitters lacked sidetone or was there other reasons such as timing or poor recovery? 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO Depends on what you mean by mute. Most really old receivers had a B+ switch, either for everything or for the RF stages. This acted as a mute when used with a suitable antenna relay. My original station used a BC-779 (Hammarlund Super Pro). I had a relay mounted on the back to work the B+. For CW it was bypassed simply by putting the front panel Send-Receive switch on Receive. That left the receiver live. I used an antenna relay but also had an auxilliary relay right at the receiver antenna terminals. I had just enough back wave from the transmitter to monitor my own CW. The transmitter was a heavily modified BC-375E. I now don't remember if it had some sort of tone generator on it for monitoring CW. If it did I didn't use it. I am curious now about which transmitters of the late 1940's to, say, 1960s had some sort of monitoring tone. OTOH, there were external monitors that would provide such a tone from sampling the RF. I have a Bud code practice oscillator that is rigged this way with a switch on the side to set it for monitoring. It worked by means of a small sampling loop. None of these tone generators would really tell you much about the air quality of your CW signal. Listening on the receiver would show up chirps or clicks right away as well as indicate the shaping of the characters. I remember some transmitters, maybe Collins S-Line, having a very identifiable fast attack long decay characteristic that gave them an odd chime-like sound. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickb...@ix.netcom.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Sidetones (was Ten-Tec and Drake Compared)
I notice that most vintage receivers provide a mute, at least the ones I've seen, yet it's use doesn't seem to be that popular. Was this just because the transmitters lacked sidetone or was there other reasons such as timing or poor recovery? 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO On 06/17/11 14:48, leecra...@aol.com wrote: > Darrell, > > I agree with you 100% on the lack of sidetone, etc. on vintage > equipment. When I completed my "ultimate boatanchor CW transmitter" > last year, I included sidetone, pumped through the matching homebrew > receiver's audio and well as the muting you mentioned. > > 73 > Lee WB6SSW ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
I had an atrocious first station...and I never made a contact with it. On the other hand it was 100% home made :-) First station: Ameco AC1 transmitter, and a Knight Star Roamer receiver. This was an atrocious station, and while I was able to make a contact with the AC1 (with another receiver) I'm not sure I could make a qso with the Star Roamer TODAY, with a bazillion QSO's under my belt and 40 years of experience. This was later upgraded to the AC-1 and a Knight R-100 , with which I made a good number of QSO's , upgrading to a DX-40 with which I made hundreds of QSO's in my Novice year. What would I have liked as a novice? Hmmm one of the Drake stations I now have.., a Drake 2NT, 2BQ and 2C (with a halli vfo) is an excellent performer and very easy to use. Fun to think about John K5MO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Sidetones (was Ten-Tec and Drake Compared)
Darrell, I agree with you 100% on the lack of sidetone, etc. on vintage equipment. When I completed my "ultimate boatanchor CW transmitter" last year, I included sidetone, pumped through the matching homebrew receiver's audio and well as the muting you mentioned. 73 Lee WB6SSW ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
- Original Message - From: "Darrell Bellerive" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared I notice the use of sidetones, and receiver muting does not seem to be commonly used in separate operation on the same frequency. Obviously sidetone would be needed when operating on different transmit and receive frequencies. I have often wondered about the lack of sidetone circuits in vintage transmitters. I have always had transcievers and sidetone, so it all just seems odd to me. :-) 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO I think it depends on how vintage. The first Collins 32V transmitters had side tone but it was discontinued in the 32V-3, the reason given was that they could not meet TVI suppression specs with it. I think most of the Johnson transmitters had it. Not sure of others. Side tone is useful if you are transmitting on a different frequency than receiving, common for DX. For other purposes I always monitored in the receiver, there being enough leakage signal so that I could hear my own. There are a lot of curiousities in both receiver and transmitter design and features offered. For instance, Johnson included a speech clipper and filter in the Valliant but Collins never did in the 32V series although they did in the much more expensive 30K and KW-1. It may have been simply a matter of cost. One of the few places where a thorough analysis of design and cost can be found is in the Collins documents for the R-390A. This was probably a much more thorough investigation than was typical for a production product anywhere outside of the telephone company. At some point, in any project, one has to stop trying to make it better and begin to make it or decide that it shouldn't be made at all. In the case of the R-390 the cost of all that investigating was probably absorbed by the government contracts (meaning you the taxpayer), in general, development costs have to be paid for out of profits, if any, on a new product so that when a project is cancelled it can be quite expensive. I don't know that a lot of absolute dogs got into production but at least some did. To me the Hammarlund Pro-310 is the prime example, a very poor receiver however sexy looking, that should never have been approved for production. It would be interesting to know what had happened at Hammarlund that led to this since they seem to have fallen off the edge altogether at about that time. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickb...@ix.netcom.com ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
On 2011-06-17, at 3:07 PM, Darrell Bellerive wrote: > So if you knew then what you know now, what would have been your first > station and what year would it have been? Hi Darrell, In truth & in hindsight, I don't think that I would have changed a single, solitary thing from the early days of my Ham "career"... I first got ticketed as a highschool kid in 1971: that meant (A) no money for any "dream" rigs, and, (B) plenty of time to do some actual dreaming...and so I homebrewed my first transmitter from the March 1971 issue of QST (a 6T9 compactron QRP rig), and used this in conjunction with my third-hand Hallicrafters S-77A receiver. Being rockbound & with low power meant that I had to learn the importance of timing and antennas(!). And that old receiver served as my own personal Elmer in that I built things to improve its performance---things like a pre-selector, Q-multiplier, audio filter, external converter, etc.---all of which made me comfortable with rolling-my-own, and instilled confidence in my abilities. Oh sure, at the time if some genie had magically appeared before me to grant me a wish I woulda yelled "GIMME AN S-LINE!" But I'm glad there are no genies---and I STILL don't own an S-line, either (but I DID acquire a nice T-4X / R-4 combo that I absolutely love, some 35 years after the fact!). ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
My first HAM rig was borrowed from a mentor (Tom Roberts WA6YKE/AC5RD)who was helping me get my HAM license it was a Knight T-60 transmitter and HRO-60 receiver. I was 13 at the time, then my dad and I found an HW-16 working, bought a HG-10B VFO which became the first station I owned. At 16 my Dad bought me a Yaesu FT-101B which I still have. As I said in an earlier post, in high school I was given the opportunity to purchase a HAM station for Helix High School here in La Mesa, CA. the station was a Drake TR-4C, RV-4C, MS-4, and W-4 watt meter (I'd sure like to know where that rig went). I'm not sure I'd change anything we did, perhaps instead of the Yaesu I would have asked for the Drake Twins but the old FT-101B has stood the test of time.. Then again Darrell wouldn't we all like to have known then what we know now; "Dad lets buy stock in this new company called Microsoft" ;-) De WA6HYQ -Original Message- From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Darrell Bellerive Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:08 PM To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: [Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be? The threads about the comparisons of the Drake, Collins, etc. has got me thinking about my first receiver and station. Licenced at the age of 15 back in 1975, I bought used gear from the local club members, not giving any thought as to what was great, good, or bad in terms of design or performance. It was available and so that's what I got. If I knew then, what I know now, my first receiver and station would have been totally different. If I could have afforded it a new Drake R-4B or if money was not available, a used Drake 2B would have been my first receiver rather than the Hallicrafters SX-140. So if you knew then what you know now, what would have been your first station and what year would it have been? 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
I notice the use of sidetones, and receiver muting does not seem to be commonly used in separate operation on the same frequency. Obviously sidetone would be needed when operating on different transmit and receive frequencies. I have often wondered about the lack of sidetone circuits in vintage transmitters. I have always had transcievers and sidetone, so it all just seems odd to me. :-) 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO On 06/17/11 10:18, Paul Christensen wrote: > The beauty of this system is that the PIN diode switch allows just > enough Tx to Rx leakage for one to get about a 10 dB over S9 signal on > the receiver while transmitting in CW. So, you're listing to your own > signal in real time and switching is so fast that your own signal is > heard as just another signal on the band. The Tx and Rx VFOs are > free-running and do not have the handicap of needing to switch by the > amount of the CW offset between T/R excursions. > > Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] First Rigs - If you could do it all over again, what would your first station be?
The threads about the comparisons of the Drake, Collins, etc. has got me thinking about my first receiver and station. Licenced at the age of 15 back in 1975, I bought used gear from the local club members, not giving any thought as to what was great, good, or bad in terms of design or performance. It was available and so that's what I got. If I knew then, what I know now, my first receiver and station would have been totally different. If I could have afforded it a new Drake R-4B or if money was not available, a used Drake 2B would have been my first receiver rather than the Hallicrafters SX-140. So if you knew then what you know now, what would have been your first station and what year would it have been? 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
Darrell - Ten-Tec started out making small solid state transceivers very similar to some of the QRP kits being offered today. They came with a nice punched and labeled cabinet, and were sold as the Powermite PM-1, PM-2 and PM-3. There were several 'flavors' of these models with various features/bands added. The also sold just the wired and tested PC boards to be installed in your own cabinet. They graduated to more and more complex radios, using the same 'modular' approach. Opening up some of the early units was like looking inside a homebrew radio, with little PC boards mounted in various orientations, wired together in a rather hap-hazard way. I don't know when they progressed to a more 'finished' product, but eventually they manufactured near 'state of the art' transceivers, with an emphasis on CW and QSK operation. For a while they were almost alone in the lead in the QSK market, and still make a quality transceiver. One thing about Ten-Tec gear. The 'word' in the Ham community was that, 'The good news is that Ten-Tec has an outstanding service department, with friendly, helpful techs readily available. They very often will ship a replacement board on the promise that you would send back the defective one.' 'The bad news is, you are almost certainly going to NEED that outstanding service department!' 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Darrell Bellerive wrote: Wow, what a great thread on Collins vs. Drake. I've never had the privilege of using any Collins gear, so this has been very enlightening. Thanks all for keeping this so objective. It seems Ten-Tec came along much later in the game than Drake or Collins, but also has a high regard from their owners. With the head start that Drake and Collins had, perhaps it is not as fair a comparison. In the 70's Ten-Tec had the Tritons, and early Omni's, with the Corsairs in the early 80's. So, how about a comparison of the Drake 4 and 7 lines with the above mentioned Ten-Tec rigs? 73, Darrell VA7TO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
Ten-Tec definitely catered to the QSK CW crowd. I know that the Drake 4-line could be made to work QSK with an external T/R switch. Has anyone on list done this and can comment on the QSK performance? Escpecially how it compares to Ten-Tec's QSK. Darrell: I'm using my C Line in QSK mode with the help of: (1) Ameritron QSK-5 PIN diode T/R switch; and (2) a PIC-based CW keyer. The keyer is the device that establishes complete system timing. New keyers have the ability to adjust the lead-in and tail times between the Keyed output and PTT line. So, it's now possible to use classic separates in super-fast QSK mode. By fast I mean near full-duplex. The supreme irony is that with this set-up it's possible to attain significantly faster and seamless QSK with say...a Heathkit DX-60 and Drake R-4B than a Ten Tec Orion II. The system works around the existing C Line T/R system and requires no equipment modification. Well, as an option one could bring out another buffered PTT output from the QSK-5 to bias the T-4Xx transmitter when in SSB mode. Or, just let Ip idle all the time. An even better system is being developed between myself and a keyer manufacturer. It will allow for independent lead-in and tail times such that one can look at the keyed CW RF envelope on a scope and customize timing to active the PIN diode switch moment exactly 1 msec before transmit RF and 1 msec after the trailing tail of the CW envelope -- and that's extremely important with Drake gear since the CW envelope rise in only about 2 msec, but has the classic grid-block keying characteristics of a long R/C non-linear discharge as it asymptotically reaches zero. This system only works for "separates." For the past thirty years, manufacturers have had to compromise on QSK performance in order to contend with PLL and synthesizer settling times. Transceivers generally use the same oscillator for Tx and RX but the oscillator does not settle fast enough between T and R to allow for super-fast QSK. That's why you see T/R turnaround times in QST Product Reviews in the range of 10-30 msec, the longest of which is the Flex-Radio gear. With the Flex, there's just too much latency to achieve any semblance of QSK. Direct RF sampling shows the best promise for future QSK performance from SDR transceivers as hardware handles the lion's share of processing horsepower and not a Microsoft Windows software application (e.g., PowerSDR). The beauty of this system is that the PIN diode switch allows just enough Tx to Rx leakage for one to get about a 10 dB over S9 signal on the receiver while transmitting in CW. So, you're listing to your own signal in real time and switching is so fast that your own signal is heard as just another signal on the band. The Tx and Rx VFOs are free-running and do not have the handicap of needing to switch by the amount of the CW offset between T/R excursions. Paul, W9AC ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
My only Ten-Tec rig was an Argo 509. I was very impressed with the receiver, except for the AGC pops. I sold it years ago, so a side by side comparison with my Drake 2B is not possible. If my memory is correct, I would give the edge to the 2B. I really like my 2B. Someday perhaps I can collect a Triton IV, Corsair, R-4B, TR-7, and compare them all side by side. I doubt I will ever spend the money on a Collins, but My impression of the early Ten-Tec's were that they tried to keep the price down more than Drake and much more than Collins. Cheaper cases, knobs, etc. The PTO rebuild frequency of the Ten-Tec may also stem from this as well. Ten-Tec definitely catered to the QSK CW crowd. I know that the Drake 4-line could be made to work QSK with an external T/R switch. Has anyone on list done this and can comment on the QSK performance? Escpecially how it compares to Ten-Tec's QSK. 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO On 06/16/11 22:14, geoffrey mendelson wrote: > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Darrell Bellerive wrote: > >> In the 70's Ten-Tec had the Tritons, and early Omni's, with the Corsairs >> in the early 80's. > > > Before the Corsairs, with the Tritons, Argos, early OMNIs and Century > (21,22, 22 digital display) rigs Ten-Tec went for simplicity of design > and good sound. > > Compared to the design of the Colins (sophistocated and no expense > spared), the Drake (near genius), the Ten-Tec rigs look like they were > designed by copying pages from Doug DeMaw's books. > > I am NOT saying that the Ten-Tec rigs are poor performers, far from it. > For casual rag chewing, I'd put my Argo 509 or Trition IV Digital > (display, not oscillator) against any modern rig. > > In the Drake rigs I've seen every part is carefully placed, every wire > carefully run, every joint carefully soldered. My SPR-4 manual warns > against changing the length or route of wires as it may affect performance. > > I don't know if it would affect the Ten-Tec rigs in the same way, but it > does not seem so. The designs seem to be simple circuits. The Century > rigs have direct coversion receivers. > > Geoff. ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
My first receiver was a used Hallicrafters SX-140. I did not have a manual with it, and it was many, many years after I sold it that I realized it had a regenerative detector. My recollections of it were of very poor selectivity. Perhaps this is just due to my not knowing how to adjust the regenerative knob properly. It was labeled Selectivity/BFO so I always figured straight up for CW, a bit left for LSB and a bit to the right for USB. Funny thinking about it know, but I was 15 years old and studying for my licence at the time. Once I got my licence I upgraded to an Heathkit SB-101. A couple of times now I have almost bought another SX-140 just to try it out with the proper use of that selectivity/BFO control and see if it really was as bad as I remember or if it was just me. 73, Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Station VA7TO On 06/17/11 07:33, kc9...@aol.com wrote: > Interesting conversation! > 3) Halli's...just fun to use and performance is really goos as > well...better than most may think/remember > 73, > Lee, KC9CDT ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Looking For L7 or L75 Part
Ron, I was in your exact shoes when I needed a replacement end cap for my L-7. For a while John Kiriner was selling replacements for these. If i recall they weren't very expensive either. He may very well still have some. I'd send him a note to find out. 73 with regards, Joe Loverti Jr. WS8X Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2011, at 11:00 AM, drakelist-requ...@zerobeat.net wrote: Looking For L7 or L75 Part ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] TR6
WA8SAJ, WB4HFN, and John Kriner, come to mind... -Original Message- From: Hal Dale To: Drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 8:20 am Subject: [Drakelist] TR6 Are there any TR6 Guru's out there. I have a issue with mine I need to discuss with someone. Hal, WB4AEG CW.When all else fails !! ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
Interesting conversation! Well, I have here today the Collins KWM-2 and S3 line, a 'B' line, a 'C' line (Full Sherwood). Hallicrafters SX-117/HT-44, and SX-115/HT-32Balong with my only modern riga TT Orion II. I could not afford any of this in my early days (1964) of hamming. Used Knight Kit/Heathkit & very used older stuff (HRO-7 etc) I actually use all of this on a regular basis. Here is my rundown: 1) Collins = nice to operate, very reliable, great for SSB, not for CW, looks cool, easy to maintain. and I like the 6146's 2) Drake = superb in every way, PBT is a real +, needs very little maintenance, very stablehas nearly as good of contest/weak DX performance as TT Orion 3) Halli's...just fun to use and performance is really goos as well...better than most may think/remember 4) TT OII, really a superb TXCVR in all wayssuper easy to use, no multi=level menus, top notch rcvr. no tune, nice big knobs , manual never needed The vintage stuff is just more fun! I like working on the stuff if neededit's the technology I understand and can work on. 73, Lee, KC9CDT -Original Message- From: Garey Barrell To: drakelist Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 9:33 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. Richard Knoppow wrote: - Original Message - From: "Paul Christensen" To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits... Toward the end of its life, the R-4B + T-4XB was right at $1K. I can't imagine spending that during my teenage years in the mid 1970s. To me, it was like a car purchase. By 1975, what was the street price of the S-Line combo? I imagine Collins offered little in the way of discounts. I make this assumption based on the back pages of QSTs I've been reading from the late '50s. For example, every single dealer who supplied the KWM-1 advertised it for exactly $820 in 1958. It sure seems like Collins had strict terms and conditions on just how much a dealer could discount, if any at all -- much the same way other high-end products are sold today in order to retain an elite branding image. I imagine this was less of an issue with Drake. Paul, W9AC Its hard to know what actual discounts might have been offered. At the time strict "fair trade" price control by manufacturers was still legal, dealers had to abide by their agreements, at leas for advertised prices. What is not clear is how much effective discounting went on in the form of trade-ins or extras supplied "free" when equipment was bought. I suspect a lot of price competition went on under the table. OTOH, I don't know how much mark up there was on ham gear, maybe not a lot. Most commercial electronics had enough so that a 40% discount over "list" price could be offered. There may have been more on consumer gear. Ham gear may not have had enough volume to allow this. Richard - I worked part time for a Ham distributor in the 60s. At that time, the distributor paid 75% of list price. Several of the manufacturers had a program where a salesperson could purchase ONE of any or all items at 50%, for their own use. This is how I got my first 4-Line. There was little discounting over 10%, usually in the form of 'increased' trade-in value. Most Collins gear that I sold was at list price, I suppose those who could afford it didn't care what it cost! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] Looking For L7 or L75 Part
Hello to all, I just acquired a very nice L75 amplifier for my shack.However the black end cap on one side is broken.So I am looking to purchase one of those black end caps for either the Drake L-7 or L-75 amplifiers, it is the same on both models. Unlike the smaller size for the other 7 line radios, for the amplifier there was no right or left side. The longer end caps on the amplifiers will fit either side. I know I can get aftermarket replacement, but I want to keep it all original if possible. So if anyone has an original Drake L-7 or L-75 black end cap in good condition they want to sell, please let me know. Thanks, Ron / WB4HFN Keep you tubes glowing and always keep a spare. ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc.
Richard Knoppow wrote: - Original Message - From: "Paul Christensen" To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins, Drake etc. So, truth be told, while Collins gear was clearly the high priced spread, even Drakes were still out of reach for us average joes who made do with Heathkits... Toward the end of its life, the R-4B + T-4XB was right at $1K. I can't imagine spending that during my teenage years in the mid 1970s. To me, it was like a car purchase. By 1975, what was the street price of the S-Line combo? I imagine Collins offered little in the way of discounts. I make this assumption based on the back pages of QSTs I've been reading from the late '50s. For example, every single dealer who supplied the KWM-1 advertised it for exactly $820 in 1958. It sure seems like Collins had strict terms and conditions on just how much a dealer could discount, if any at all -- much the same way other high-end products are sold today in order to retain an elite branding image. I imagine this was less of an issue with Drake. Paul, W9AC Its hard to know what actual discounts might have been offered. At the time strict "fair trade" price control by manufacturers was still legal, dealers had to abide by their agreements, at leas for advertised prices. What is not clear is how much effective discounting went on in the form of trade-ins or extras supplied "free" when equipment was bought. I suspect a lot of price competition went on under the table. OTOH, I don't know how much mark up there was on ham gear, maybe not a lot. Most commercial electronics had enough so that a 40% discount over "list" price could be offered. There may have been more on consumer gear. Ham gear may not have had enough volume to allow this. Richard - I worked part time for a Ham distributor in the 60s. At that time, the distributor paid 75% of list price. Several of the manufacturers had a program where a salesperson could purchase ONE of any or all items at 50%, for their own use. This is how I got my first 4-Line. There was little discounting over 10%, usually in the form of 'increased' trade-in value. Most Collins gear that I sold was at list price, I suppose those who could afford it didn't care what it cost! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] TR6
Are there any TR6 Guru's out there. I have a issue with mine I need to discuss with someone. Hal, WB4AEG CW.When all else fails !!___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins and Drake Compared
That's not a rumor - it's fact. The MARS service provides for its members to get surplus equipment when Uncle Sam decides he doesn't need it any more. I never got any S Line gear this way, but had a few R-390A receivers and some very good test gear. I know one fellow who received a complete KWM2A suitcase station, and saw some 651S1 receivers given out. 73, Mike W3MC NNN0RVG _ From: drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sent: Friday, 17 June, 2011 05:24 To: k4...@mindspring.com; Tom Swisher Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins and Drake Compared A lot of the "rich folks" were more lucky folks from what I understand. Apparently there was some benefits from being part of the MARS organization at one point. Rumor had it that it was free or drastically reduced Collins equipment for being involved. Anyone know anything about that rumor? --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Tom Swisher wrote: From: Tom Swisher Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins and Drake Compared To: k4...@mindspring.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 8:59 PM On Jun 16, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Garey Barrell wrote: > Essentially, Drake came along and found less expensive ways to emulate the Collins equipment and circuitry to make it more affordable for the 'average' ham. Drake was just the reverse of Collins, i.e., the majority of their business was with hams, with a small (if any?) government segment. Heath did somewhat the same, although they went a little too far, in my opinion, and ended up with a product that felt 'cheap' and flimsy, compared even to the Drake. Drake was not fancy, but WAS and IS solid in construction. Well put, Garey. I've personally always considered Collins the gear for the "rich man" while Drake was the gear for "everyman." Tom -- Tom Swisher, WA8PYR "A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Ten-Tec and Drake Compared
At 01:14 AM 6/17/2011, geoffrey mendelson wrote: I am NOT saying that the Ten-Tec rigs are poor performers, far from it. For casual rag chewing, I'd put my Argo 509 or Trition IV Digital (display, not oscillator) against any modern rig. Tentec has produced some of the best CW rigs available from anyone at any price. They continue that tradition today, though they're trying to establish a presence in the SSB crowd as well. I'd place TT in with Drake. Radios that work far far better than a cursory view inside the chassis would lead you to believe. Oh, and they both use all white interconnect wire :-) (at least up thru the Omni VI series) John K5MO ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Collins and Drake Compared
A lot of the "rich folks" were more lucky folks from what I understand. Apparently there was some benefits from being part of the MARS organization at one point. Rumor had it that it was free or drastically reduced Collins equipment for being involved. Anyone know anything about that rumor? --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Tom Swisher wrote: From: Tom Swisher Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Collins and Drake Compared To: k4...@mindspring.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 8:59 PM On Jun 16, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Garey Barrell wrote: > Essentially, Drake came along and found less expensive ways to emulate the > Collins equipment and circuitry to make it more affordable for the 'average' > ham. Drake was just the reverse of Collins, i.e., the majority of their > business was with hams, with a small (if any?) government segment. Heath did > somewhat the same, although they went a little too far, in my opinion, and > ended up with a product that felt 'cheap' and flimsy, compared even to the > Drake. Drake was not fancy, but WAS and IS solid in construction. Well put, Garey. I've personally always considered Collins the gear for the "rich man" while Drake was the gear for "everyman." Tom -- Tom Swisher, WA8PYR "A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
