[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed
Craig Spencer wrote: Environmentalism is a chicken little con game. The envionmentalists cry the sky is falling to convince people they have to go along with totalitarianism to save the world. This is not something new. It seems that it was basically the basis of the power of the Mayan kings. The conned everyone in believing their holding power was necessary to keep the world in existance. Pascal's wager is niether innocent or a safe bet. The downside is basically the complete loss of your freedom. While the upside is a silly superstitious illusion. JP is right on. It's all about freedom - in the case of E-gold, freedom to choose or create and use your own currency. In the case of enviromentalism, freedom of sentient beings to enjoy life, liberty, etc. You could not be more wrong. Perhaps you have some concept of environmentalism that is compatible with liberty but you are changing the meaning of the word from what nearly everybody else means by it and this is disingenuous. Real enviromentalists are not interested in the welfare of sentient beings; their hardly hidden aim is the extermination of all intelligent life. CCS Sentient, Spiritual, Environmentalist here, On behalf of my community on the Hudson River we challenged a status quo that said all was expendable in the name of business and profit. That business could take, use, destroy, and control the public domain, and ruin peoples health, for their own gain. We accomplished change through sheer will and perseverance. The freedom and right to defend your community as proven to be upheld by ancient legal doctrines dating back to the code of Justinian, that are the foundation of modern American democracy! You can use these ancient rights to fight your local polluter and make it pay for abusing your community. All you need do is spot the phony organization, greenwashing, and junk science that anti environmental forces are foisting on an unwitting public. In the US, Fight members of Congress who with their hired guns in public relations firms and ad agencies are trying to convince you that saving your local community from pollution is Costly Bad for local business and taxes Anti American is a Loss of your Freedom communism / socialism Taking the food out of baby's mouth OH I'M SORRY.IS THIS THE E-GAD LIST OR THE E-GOLD LIST... Well what ever. SAVE TREES USE E-GOLD --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account
The eCurrency Trade Association (eCTA) is currently compiling a database for members which may be used in part for collating and tracking known scammers. This will be available to the Members of the eCTA in the very near future. Michael Moore Vice President (Pro Tem) for the Board of Directors of the eCurrency Trade Association Inc. - Original Message - From: Craig Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:02 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account You need to get together with the other poeple who have had $ stolen by gold mine. For instance, try to see a pattern in the time of day the money was stolen. At least then it can be guessed where in the world they are. It seems to me that one of the few things that could certainly be done is to compile a database on these heart breaking hacker stole my password reports. This may not get anyone's money back. But it might turn up some correlations or information of value. CCS --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Gold Today Update
What would you like to spend your gold on? Well you can spend it on a holiday. Yes. you can buy a great holiday in the sun with gold! The Beautiful Island of Lombok in Indonesia is a holiday of a lifetime and you can now purchase a few week with the click of a mouse. Go to https://gold-today.com/buygold.php3 click on the here in. - For a great holiday in the sun click here. Be prepared for the time of your life!! Kind regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gold-today.com Sign up with e-gold today and get grams of e-gold here. https://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.asp?cid=129542 Sign up with osgold and get an osgold account today http://www.osgold.com/index.php?id=1008 subscribe to the gold-today discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldtoday --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Here's what purplexes me.
Here's what perplexes me. So far, the only accounts that I have heard of being raided have been the accounts that have had the account number revealed. So far, I have not heard of a second or a third account having been raided. How come? E-gold reports failed attempts to access an account, and reports it as a possible attempted break-in. I can't recall if anyone has mentioned seeing such a report on the raided account. How come? Also, if someone is using a keyboard sniffer, why hasn't the second or third account been raided? Again, how come? Something is missing from all of these reports. Something just doesn't make sense. I really like ZoneAlarm. It disables inbound attachments so they cannot be accidently activated. You have to do it on purpose. Also, ZoneAlarm keeps spurious programs from accessing the Net without your permission, Trojan or not. Renamed or not. With Dropit, you can store your encrypted ID and passphrases on a floppy while the program resides on your HD. You can name the encrypted file anything you want and tell Dropit where and what name it is and it will go and get it. The file remains encrypted until you drop the ID/passphrase into place. The one time it is vulnerable to a sniffer. Between TweakUI and WindowWasher you can remove virtually all footprints from your system including cookies, while saving those cookies your want to keep. My security is far from perfect, yet it does seem to keep me from harms way. I usually receive 5 or 6 e-mails a week with nasties attached. Usually some sort of bulk mail. I will also get some nasties in my cache from sites. One or Two a month. You don't have to be paranoid for them to be after you. Paul --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, the overall topic is so completely ridiculous on so many levels (example, reindeer cannot fly; man has in fact explored the north pole; we know where all known gifts actually came from etc) that it is important to realize that even the statement santa claus is nonsensical because he couldn't fit down the chimney is sort of ridiculous in itself, because, it ignores how incredibly ridiculous the rest of the topic is. *grins* http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~dufour/HUMOR/Santas.html (*) the normal variation in the earth's temperature is spectacular and massive. For example, we happen to be in a 10 thousand year gap between two **ICE AGES**. This is just one of TENS OF THOUSANDS of such ongoing cycles. And also pretty fast - I've heard TV documentaries where they discussed evidence that shows a complete switch out of an ice age taking less than 100 years. Also I recall the flap before global warming was fear of a new *ice age* being due roundabout now. Be amusing if one filled into the hole of the other so to speak :-) (*) Just for example, FIFTEEN THOUSAND scientists have now signed a petition pointing out that global warming is trivial idiocy. N scientists have signed a petition is meaningless either way, pro or con - adding numbers doesn't support arguments (which obviously also goes for the every schoolboy knows approach of many GW theorists). (*) the amount of CO2 put out by humans is utterly, utterly dwarfed by natural processes CO2 isn't the only greenhouse gas, so's water, methane, etc. Why does global warming exist? Quite simply, to raise taxes. ENVIRONMENTALISM IS THE LAST ATTEMPT OF SOCIALISM TO GAIN CONTROL. I posit you're underestimating the opposition here. I hung out with green types a tad when I was younger, and one of the things I noticed (that drove me off infact) was how common pure technophobia was. And by tech, I mean anything literally more advanced than sitting nude in a nud puddle, scrabbling for roots. It was subtle, unstated, but universal, that *rational thought* was considered an unfair advantage, and one that ought to be banned. Merely taxing the economy back to hovels and hand-carts was at most a step in the right direction. Result: they do a Milliken on Doug, and slap a 30% tax on e-gold transactions. e-gold inc needs to be damn sure it can hop jurisdictions and hide behind secrecy mechanisms such as ZKS freedom to the extent that it can blow a phbbbt at the taxers and simply refuse to reveal anything or cooperate to any extent. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Think of it as a Pascal's wager kind of thing - maybe you'll be wrong trying to do your part to combat global warming, but conserving energy and promoting alternative fuels can be its own reward - and if you're right it helps in the big picture too! The Pascal's wager calculations you make need to be weighted against (a) damage to the principle of private property (b) the economic devastation, famine, power cuts, and destruction of opportunity inherent in GW gas bans/taxes. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account
Let me apologise for the long posting..Is a compilation of a few
events..Whoever think they have a solution may read.
A solution to a problem is never as permanent as the problem itself or the
excuses Ka Seong
Well, I don't believe there is a lock in this world that can last longer
than the persistency of a thief.
There is only one solution and only if E-gold is willing to do something
about it. Unlike ATM-card fraud where the funds are gone without much
valuebale and traceability clue. Every fund that has been stolen from any
account still remain in the entire E-gold system. What time it was spent?
Where does the access came from? Which account it was spent to? What is
the subsequent activities of the fund in the receiving acccount? Used for
shopping? Exchange out to cash? etc.
All these are logged, isn't it? Only timing is very crucial and E-gold has
to come up with new term and conditions. For example, {As an E-gold user,
you agreed that E-gold may frozen your account for investigation when that
is an alligation about your account being used to receive funds stolen.
However, this investigation will not take too long and we will release it
back to you, when proven otherwise.} Let the lawyer do the correct
wording.
Here is a letter I received from Heap Of Gold together with their refund
check of $960 to me for my unsuccessful E-gold funding of $1025 with them
on Apr 23.
{Begin}
The e-gold system has suffered a security breach of their system. We are
no longer a market maker for e-gold and cannot in good faith recommend use
of this system. We have returned the portion of your funds that were not
taken during the breach of the e-gold system. E-gold has the remainder of
your funds. E-gold tracked the hackers in their system and seized the
funds. To date they have been unwilling to return the stolen funds per
their own policy. If we receive the funds back from e-gold we will forward
the remainder of your funds back to you.
{end}
Below is my e-mail communication I had with E-gold service for my personal
experience in losing E-gold fund, only a Yugo lost compare to Fred Mann's
Ferrari lost. Does E-gold have to wait until the lost of a Boeing to take
action?
{Begin attachment}===
Subject: RE: Urgent !!! My E-Gold Account Hacked ! $177.0 Gone !
To: Lim Ka Seong Cheah Siew Mee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Service EG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The e-gold system wasn't hacked. We have all the logs of what happened in
your account and we are trying to get authorities to help us. But at this
current time we cannot provide that information to you because we require
a court order to give that information out.
e-gold Service
-Original Message-
From: Lim Ka Seong Cheah Siew Mee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:49 PM
To: Service EG
Cc: Paul Vahur
Subject: RE: Urgent !!! My E-Gold Account Hacked ! $177.0 Gone !
E-Gold Service,
I have never express my intention for a reverse spend, I will reserve that
till later. WHAT I AM AFTER IS THE TRUTH.
I would like to know why there is an unauthorized spend from my E-gold
account?
Was is the act of a hacker?
Was my account really been compromised?
Was is a software mistake in E-gold? That my account was accidentally
deducted?
Or, was it done by someone who work in E-gold?
So, what is your finding? Have you taken a look at the log file? Have you
got the IP address that access my the E-gold account during that time
frame? Can you email me the log file of my account?
I have submitted a Internet Fraud filing with FBI and in the process of
collecting more information in helping their investigation. Your
cooperation is very much appreciated.
Here is my IFCC-FBI file id : I01060314523071
We have to start asking ourself questions to find out the truth. Giving
excuses wasn't helpful at all. I have collected a few other similar cases
that were reported to E-gold. I can tell you that all of them are equally
disappointed with E-gold's customer service support.
Regards,
Ka Seong
At 11:17 AM 06/06/2001 -0400, you wrote:
Basically our policy is that we cannot reverse an e-gold spend, that has
always been our policy. The user
is responsible for the protection of their passphrase, please read
www.e-gold.com/unsecure/e-g-agree.htm
e-gold Service
-Original Message-
From: Lim Ka Seong Cheah Siew Mee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 7:02 PM
To: Service EG
Cc: Paul Vahur
Subject: [e-gold-service] RE: Urgent !!! My E-Gold Account Hacked ! $1
77.0 Gone !
E-gold Service,
Well, you see, with credit card, if someone illegally charge to our credit
card, as the owner of the card, I can decline the transaction and I am
protected. I can stand and depend myself against it. In this case of
E-gold, a spend was committed using my account, and as the owner of the
account, I am depending myself that the spend was not committed by me.
Whether or not, the receiving end of the spend is the culprit, or a
[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | This is not sensible, though. | | Nothing could be easier than extracting (ie, opening your eyes and | looking at) the output of a keyboard sniffer. | | You can, instantaneously, see (say, to make but one example), where | the word e-gold was typed, and then immediately find the account | number(s) / password(s) after that. | | See the example of a keyboard sniffer sniffing myself in the other email. | | There is no sense in which you need a program to do that, it | doesn't make any sense. True, you don't *need* it, but it would be a better solution than a keyboard sniffer: - It could extract the exact information - no need to eyeball to output, less bytes to send (e.g. in a ping packet), account plundering could be automated - It would work with programs using the automation interface - Password drag-and-drop programs wouldn't offer added security Sure, I got carried away with the better technical solution, but for the sake of your argument there's no need for it. | ANY of these obviosities is the equivalent of pointing out that | reindeer cant fly --- global warming is as ridiculous on as many | levels as santa claus: Very well, but aren't you yourself a firm 'charting' believer? From reading books like 'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' (by Burton Malkiel), I've got the impression that chartists historically don't manage to outperform the market - despite their belief they can predict future trends from looking at the charts. I'm sure 'charting' is so controversial that I could dig up plenty of documentation supporting the idea that it is humbug. Perhaps you can disprove that notion, too! All in good fun, --Luc --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed
Julian Morrison wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Think of it as a Pascal's wager kind of thing - maybe you'll be wrong trying to do your part to combat global warming, but conserving energy and promoting alternative fuels can be its own reward - and if you're right it helps in the big picture too! Why is it that so many environmentalist want to use violence and the threat of violence instead of *prices* to get what they want? Why is it that so many environmentalist don't hold up John D. Rockerfeller (of Standard Oil fame) as an example of the ultimate conservationist? Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Due Process - In defense of e-gold
Many people have complained that e-gold doesn't just freeze funds or reverse a spend when they report that their account has been hacked. There is a reason for this. It is called due process. If someone has stolen money from your account, report it to the FBI or the local Melbourne, Florida police department, and hire a lawyer to get a court order telling e-gold to produce the records showing where that money was spent to and when. E-gold states on their website that they will cooperate with law enforcement agencies. Presumably the reason e-gold requires a court order (as does Standard Reserve and GoldMoney) is that anyone can claim that someone else ripped them off whether it is true or not. The only way to prevent frivolous reversals as are common in the credit card industry, is to require due process in a court of law before e-gold will freeze funds or reverse a spend. The court has to seize the stolen funds and have them returned. So, if your loss was large enough to warrent the above actions, then by all means take them. If your loss was small enough not to make it worthwhile, then improve your security or use a different payment system. (GoldMoney now has digital certificates if you want a higher level of security.) This whole problem, however, is an unescapeable symptom of the problems of book-entry (BE) accounting. BE systems require two things to make them work: 1. A means of validating the identity of the account holder. 2. A gun if all else fails. (The gun is the law enforcement agency that prosecutes the crimes of fraud, larceny, and conversion.) Since several hackers seem to have discovered the easy picking's that e-gold customers represent, the situation has now reached the point that several people need to resort to the gun (law enforcement) in order to keep the system working for them. The long term solution is to switch over to digital-bearer-instruments so there are no accounts to be hacked, and proof of identity is not required. But until that happens, e-gold and others will have to improve their identity security method in order to keep the costs of crime down. (Or they can do nothing, and as complaints like this increase in number they will have more and more hassle from the FBI or Secret Service.) Presently there are two obvious improvements that can be made, one by e-gold, and one by the account holder. 1. E-gold can add digital certificate support to their web site. The cryptographic authentication procedure requires the would-be hacker to steal a secret key AND a passphrase. This is at least one order of magnitude more difficult for the hacker, which means we should see a one order of magnitude decrease in e-gold thefts. 2. The account holder can purchase devices to store their password and their private key off-line. If this is done, then the system is secure, as long as their system is secure in meatspace. (Ie. Unauthorized individuals do not have physical access to their computer or offline storage device.) Ken Griffith --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed
Julian Morrison wrote: Also I recall the flap before global warming was fear of a new *ice age* being due roundabout now. Be amusing if one filled into the hole of the other so to speak :-) The notable fact about this is that it was the SAME people that were touting the coming ice age that a few years later switched to touting global warming. Clearly to story details of their chicken little game are not essential. It is just a means to power for them. CCS --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Can the global warming conversation PLEASE
migrate to http://www.free-market.net/forums/e-gold0009/ ?? It's easy to post there, and it will reduce traffic on this list* nicely. Thanks, and yes, John D. Rockefeller saved more whales than today's enviros can or will ever imagine, but that has nothing to do with e-gold IMO. :) On the stuff that DOES have to do with e-gold, more of you should post with a two-cents-worth link in your signature files! 2cw ROCKS! JMR * As I've said, I don't own this list, but if Reid disagrees with me that the conversation should migrate, I'll eat my flip flops! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Due Process - In defense of e-gold
1. E-gold can add digital certificate support to their web site. The cryptographic authentication procedure requires the would-be hacker to steal a secret key AND a passphrase. This is at least one order of magnitude more difficult for the hacker, which means we should see a one order of magnitude decrease in e-gold thefts. 2. The account holder can purchase devices to store their password and their private key off-line. If this is done, then the system is secure, as long as their system is secure in meatspace. (Ie. Unauthorized individuals do not have physical access to their computer or offline storage device.) Ken Griffith I bet anyone grams that e-gold will indeed implement such groovy stuff, fairly soon. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed
Luc Van den Borre wrote: Sure, I got carried away with the better technical solution, but for the sake of your argument there's no need for it. | ANY of these obviosities is the equivalent of pointing out that | reindeer cant fly --- global warming is as ridiculous on as many | levels as santa claus: Very well, but aren't you yourself a firm 'charting' believer? From reading books like 'A Random Walk Down Wall Street' (by Burton Malkiel), I've got the impression that chartists historically don't manage to outperform the market - despite their belief they can predict future trends from looking at the charts. I'm sure 'charting' is so controversial that I could dig up plenty of documentation supporting the idea that it is humbug. Perhaps you can disprove that notion, too! On contrarie, Technical analysis or chartists as was mention, and in accordance to the Market Technicians Association, is the study of data generated by the action of markets and by the behavior and psychology of market participants and observers. Such study is usually applied to estimating the probabilities for the future course of prices for a market, investment, or speculation by interpreting the data in the context of precedent OR The study of the forces of supply and demand in any free and orderly marketplace. Charts are the core of technical analysis and provides a critical element timing. Therefore what kind of investor are you? Day trading, traditional, Intermediate, long term. All you really need to know is who you are and how long are you planning to hold a specific stock. Only then can you select the chart that is appropriate for what you are trying to achieve. It is all in...The Right Chart(s) Your impression sir, in my opinion is due to an enormous number of people, pros and individual investors using the wrong chart. They maybe ignorant or arrogant, Hey a chart is a chart eh? However, charting takes a bit more work, and you must use constant attention to a portfolio. but you can have grater returns with correct technical analysis. buy at $20 sell years later a $60, when climbing to 60 it could go to 40 and then back down to 25 So sell at $40 and you have a nice profit. A charter is a Market Timer who should sell when that stock is rising at 37, reinvest at 27 during the fall to 25, if your correct you will ride up again to $57. This is not all the way up, but it is not a ride all the way down. You end up with a $47 gain or 17.5 greater return instead of $40 All in good fun, --Luc I'll drink to that! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Security measures and DIRT
In fact, the only REAL long term solution is to go completely over to digital-bearer-instruments (digital cash) instead of book-entry systems, but until then, here's how to protect your account: How so? These instruments are like a leather wallet in your back pocket. They can be stolen. You can loose them. Technicaly speaking they are not for everybody. 3. To prevent NEW targeted trojans that slip by your AV software you need Finjan's Surfin Guard Pro (www.finjan.com).Finjan's products are classified as active defense. They monotor incoming attachments for hostile behavior and block them before they can execute. Their free product blocks hushmail applets, so you should purchase their personal edition that lets you choose which sites to trust content from. Well I am not so sure... Finjan sure does what it says... but it did more as well... at least on one of my systems. After installation for trial, I had a radical drop in performance with major OS problems. I can't be sure if all my problems were due to Finajan or if it was merely a coincidence. But a friend who also installed Finjan had similar problems. I would certainly love to hear about satisfied users of this software. Claude http://www.goldcurrencies.ca http://www.ormetal.com == Claude Cormier Public Key http://www.ormetal.com/PGPkey.html == --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Bounce
Neil, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Still bouncing like a rubber ball. Eric Gaither, President Gaithmans Gold Nation, Inc. (317) 788-8580 Voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://businesses.msn.com/gege/ Scammer(s) take notice...the Gold Community is united in seeing your demise! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: My security measures [Log-in #]
Why make it easy for even relatively unskilled hackers to raid e-gold a/cs? Why waste all the time, effort, money needed to effect such a change for relatively unskilled users who will just find another way to lose control of their account and demand yet more more ineffective security means because it wasn't their fault? What you are talking about will not deter *any* thieves; hackers is the *wrong* term - don't make me go off on that rant. If for some reason, i.e. doug gets possessed by a weak-willed demon, e-gold ltd. does decide to implement login#s, it won't be long (think days) before the script kiddies have the following tool easily availble to them. Same trojan insertion techinques, same keyboard sniffing, however now the program watches outbound net traffic for 'https://www.e-gold.com/acct/login.html' or 'use.e-gold.com', because it is possible to bookmark those pages and access them without typing them in. The login# is a completely ineffective method of security. The only security it provides is a false sense of said security. What becomes even clearer from your post is that it's dangerous if [thieves] find out you have an e-gold a/c, you use Windows, and your system is insecure. er... yeah... They won't find know if your system is insecure until they already have your acct# passphrase though. It's best not to give the chance. Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Fw: Re: My security measures [Log-in #]
Why make it easy for even relatively unskilled hackers to raid e-gold a/cs? Why waste all the time, effort, money needed to effect such a change for relatively unskilled users who will just find another way to lose control of their account and demand yet more more ineffective security means because it wasn't their fault? You have to decide if you want the unskilled users or not... in other words, do you want a widely accepted payment system with critical mass, or do you want a payment system for transferring money between highly skilled techies? You may be technically correct, but have you ever heard of public relations? If people are your customers, it's worth trying to keep them happy even if they are idiots. I am absolutely not suggesting making payments non repudiable, but I think one or two extra security levels would be worthwhile... even just a separate passphrase for signing payment orders. As someone pointed out a couple of weeks ago, this would make attacks such as e-qold much harder since they would have to replicate the whole log-in procedure, give out correct balances etc and they could only grab the payment passphrase if someone decided to make a payment on their site. Finally I would make the point that a hell of a lot of people around the world use online banking, yet we don't hear in the media every day of accounts being raided. Yet on this list it seems to have become an almost daily occurence with regard to e-gold accounts. Would you care to comment on why this might be? offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: You asked for it, you got it
Euro Gold Line wishes to announce that it has today signed a master contract to add 21 countries to it's banking relationships. Clients in those countries affected will no longer have to pay for cross border transfer charges. We will announce new fees fee which will incorporate those charges. These will be posted on the appropriate pages as the accounts are activated. What we can say is that from what has been reported to us that clients in the UK will will save a lot of money. According to the reports we have received, somebody wishing to fund $199 , ends up paying $40 to $50 unde the new rates it will be $15 Frank Éuro Gold Line http://www.eurogoldline.nl tel: +31-26-844-0113 fax: +31-16-844-0342 = Get your free OSGold or e-gold account, visit our site and click on one of the buttons. http://www.eurogoldline.nl Need to manage your e-gold account? Compare our rates. Serving Europe, and the WORLD!! http://www.eurogoldline.nl Stop getting ripped off, learn how to fight back, join http://www.e-told.com/139538 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fw: Re: My security measures [Log-in #]
Offshoresufer: RE: ...Finally I would make the point that a hell of a lot of people around the world use online banking, yet we don't hear in the media every day of accounts being raided. Yet on this list it seems to have become an almost daily occurence with regard to e-gold accounts. Would you care to comment on why this might be? Three possible reasons; First, e-gold is so much 'harder' and therefore more desirable than fiat currencies. Second, you don't hear about many of the 'online banking' problems because the big banks keep this information private, in the interest of maintaining their public image. Three, the world standard Windows OS and its browser, Internet Explorer are very 'thief friendly' and have a large number of known access routes. Few users have implimented security shields, or even know that they exist. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Security measures and DIRT
The main difference with DBI's is that they are encrypted to your public key whether you store them on your hard drive or on the net. But they are still unlocked with your passphrase though, right? PGP, Hushmail, Mark Twain Digicash, Digigold all require(d) a passphrase to access the account, view the encrypted content, or spend the cash to somebody. If you don't have a secure computer, it doesn't matter how many layers of external protection exist, your items of value with be taken from you. On a slightly different note... This might be another reason that e-gold is mainly (seriously) used by libertarians. One of the main pillars of libertarian philosophy is the idea of self-rule, and thus self-responsibility. It is not e-gold ltd's fault if you cannot adequately keep control of your own identity. Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Security measures and DIRT
If you don't have a secure computer, it doesn't matter how many layers of external protection exist, your items of value with be taken from you. Some famous quotes that come to mind... One by P.T. Barnum, and the other by Ben Franklin A fool and his money are soon parted. - P.T. Barnum No matter how secure e-gold is, somebody (or a lot of somebodies) will find a way to weaken that protection. They will then claim it isn't their fault when their account is misused. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Ben Franklin Any grandiose schemes of of trying to verify identity are the 'pound of cure' neccesary when people don't use the 'ounce of prevention' neccesary to protect their account/identity. Why would somebody go through a lot of hoops to verify their identity when they won't go through those hoops to protect their identity in the first place? Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] gossip beyond dreams
At 7:03 PM -0400 6/13/01, Bob wrote: A quick update on the status of Systemics' legal tussle with the e-gold group. Today we filed against the injunction; we have to wait and see what the judge says on Friday. I can't comment on anything much except the documents that are filed in court. Some of these exist in digital form and are located at http://www.systemics.com/legal/ . I've only put the ones up there that I know are filed and apparently priviledged. I forget the legal term, but because they are filed and the judge has read them, they are protected from slander. Of course, the cont Kick ass! A court battle. If you read this: http://www.systemics.com/legal/affidavit_BD2.txt Looks to me like your basic you didn't pay enough / we paid already dispute. You can see e-gold's approach is to try to get the SOURCE code as a resolution to the dispute...pretty much standard practice, and why not, if you can get it? (Scan down to Alternative to these Requirements: ... Alternative to these Requirements: is legal speak for what we're really after.) Systemics position is probably we did everything that was written down that we should. Ah, the courtroom --- scene of the end of a hundred sloppy dot-com-era developer/developee disputes. But ... which venue? Predictions: (*) e-gold will want to keep it more private (court in an offshore jurisdiction? i don't know) (*) one would imagine e-gold has better lawyers, thus, there is no rational reason why they won't win (*) habeus server systemics has the server, so they yield a lot of power Personally I am confused as to the issues .. digi gold is just an experiment right? (How much is in circulation .. $20 or something?) --- Great ventures create great mottos. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] I Love It.
Just heard on the news. On averege *ONE PERCENT* of the recommendations made by Wall St. analysts is correct in direction. Idiots. What a farse. --- Great ventures create great mottos. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] critical trading day
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/61 As Bob called it, another big test coming in tomorrow's trading. MAJOR HISTORY could be made. IF gold goes down through that channel tomorrow, the price is fucked and it will go down to 200 over the next few weeks. (It will beat the lows of April.) Hopefully (if you're long, anyway) it will continue in the channel. Observe that like i mentioned it appears to be going flag-spike-flag-spike etc. the tip of the second flag is upon us. Any move will be dramatic, again. Heartstopper! until it works its way over 275, dont breathe... --- Great ventures create great mottos. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: gossip beyond dreams
(*) habeus server systemics has the server, so they yield a lot of power So the old rule of 'he who has the gold' was one-upped by the new rule 'he who has the server that the gold is traded on'. digi gold is just an experiment right? Something like that... It is in beta release right now. It is an answer to the question of e-gold becoming a digital bearer payment. (How much is in circulation .. $20 or something?) The primary reserve account has a total of US$62346.09 worth of metal. http://www.e-gold.com/pub-bal.asp?pubid=105310 The manager reserve account has a total of US$10894.83 worth of metal. http://www.e-gold.com/pub-bal.asp?pubid=104982 Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Trojans, passwords and James Randi
I believe that some trojans can be planted on some configurations of (usually Windows) machines running ICQ, as well as by opening an attachment that should not have been trusted. http://grc.com/dos/grcdos.htm has a (long, but revealing, and mostly pretty-good I hear) discussion of using others' machines for denial of service attacks, but the same tool can be used as a keystroke sniffer. Computer security is a process, and a very complex one. It's mostly beyond me, and professionals in security get paid a lot for what they do for a reason. There are good books available on the subject. Thanks. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Security measures and DIRT
If your private key is stored in a secure device such as the U are U biometric reader, or a smart card, or a floppy, then it doesn't matter if the hacker gets your passphrase. He STILL doesn't have your private key. Ken Griffith - Original Message - From: Viking Coder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:24 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Security measures and DIRT The main difference with DBI's is that they are encrypted to your public key whether you store them on your hard drive or on the net. But they are still unlocked with your passphrase though, right? PGP, Hushmail, Mark Twain Digicash, Digigold all require(d) a passphrase to access the account, view the encrypted content, or spend the cash to somebody. If you don't have a secure computer, it doesn't matter how many layers of external protection exist, your items of value with be taken from you. On a slightly different note... This might be another reason that e-gold is mainly (seriously) used by libertarians. One of the main pillars of libertarian philosophy is the idea of self-rule, and thus self-responsibility. It is not e-gold ltd's fault if you cannot adequately keep control of your own identity. Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: gossip beyond dreams
Given the fact that digigold is only 25% backed by e-gold, the total value of all notes in circulation could be as much as $249,384. - Original Message - From: Viking Coder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:10 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: gossip beyond dreams (*) habeus server systemics has the server, so they yield a lot of power So the old rule of 'he who has the gold' was one-upped by the new rule 'he who has the server that the gold is traded on'. digi gold is just an experiment right? Something like that... It is in beta release right now. It is an answer to the question of e-gold becoming a digital bearer payment. (How much is in circulation .. $20 or something?) The primary reserve account has a total of US$62346.09 worth of metal. http://www.e-gold.com/pub-bal.asp?pubid=105310 The manager reserve account has a total of US$10894.83 worth of metal. http://www.e-gold.com/pub-bal.asp?pubid=104982 Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: I Love It.
Just heard on the news. On averege *ONE PERCENT* of the recommendations made by Wall St. analysts is correct in direction. I'm always highly skeptical of reports like that. Who arrived at that statistic and how? In an efficient market like the stock market it is impossible to beat the market average _systematically_ (you can still get lucky). If it is in fact true that one percent of the analysts' recommendations go the right way, then one could systematically beat the market average by doing the opposite of what they say. Claims like that send my bullshitometer off the scale. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: I Love It.
Just heard on the news. On averege *ONE PERCENT* of the recommendations made by Wall St. analysts is correct in direction. Idiots. What a farse. Since there are only 2 possible outcomes (ignoring no change) for a price to move, isn't there a 50/50 chance to get an increase or decrease in price? Much like flipping a coin, there is a 50/50 chance you will get heads or tails (ignoring the coin landing on its circumference!). I wonder if this means that an idiot flipping a coin is smarter than a wall street analyst? smirk Tristan --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: gossip beyond dreams
Given the fact that digigold is only 25% backed by e-gold, the total value of all notes in circulation could be as much as $249,384. Actually, the 25% backing was only a plan for the future. Digigold is still 100% backed. Remember, it's still only in beta testing. Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: critical trading day
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/61 As Bob called it, another big test coming in tomorrow's trading. MAJOR HISTORY could be made. IF gold goes down through that channel tomorrow, the price is fucked and it will go down to 200 over the next few weeks. (It will beat the lows of April.) Hopefully (if you're long, anyway) it will continue in the channel. Observe that like i mentioned it appears to be going flag-spike-flag-spike etc. the tip of the second flag is upon us. Any move will be dramatic, again. Heartstopper! until it works its way over 275, dont breathe... --- Great ventures create great mottos. Yup, another one. Volume was down some from yesterday despite prices going up for both the COMEX August contract and nem. So I expect tomorrow to be sideways or down. There was a 2-b end of trend signal 3 days after the 8 down days in a row for the gold contract. It'll take some time to repair the % damage from the 8 down days. Assuming the double bottom (and the other 2 signals) holds. Of course if it wants to go quickly to 200, that would be fun too. But, if the last 2 weeks of nem's pattern is a flag on the way down, it would a be very strange thing as there was no end of trend signal when nem topped out around May 10th. There wasn't even distribution the day after nem topped. And there's been a pretty good correlation going on for some time now. Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Is this evidence ?
On 13 Jun 2001, at 18:55, Samuel Mc Kee wrote: I keep hearing various people suggest that it's possible to plant a software trojan on someone's machine without that person opening up an attachment or running an executable locally. These claims are a lot like claims of psychic powers: I can always find someone to claim that the stories are true, but when I ask to see some evidence I am informed that, unfortunately, I can't be shown the evidence because the dog ate it. Try the first two test on this page. I am not sure if they are evidence. But you will get something on your system without opening an attachement... http://www.finjan.com/mcrc/test.cfm Claude http://www.goldcurrencies.ca http://www.ormetal.com == Claude Cormier Public Key http://www.ormetal.com/PGPkey.html == --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: now here's a moral dilemma
I was a little surprised to see you write this. Why stop at E-Gold sites? Lots of people use the same passphrase (password in many sad cases) for all their e-mail accounts, their work login, their online bank accounts, and so on and so forth. Should my regular ISP's e-mail server try to log in to my PayPal account using the same password as my e-mail password? Such an invasion would be For My Own Good, of course, and therefore morally justifiable. Where does it end, and by what rationale does it end at that particular point rather than at some point of greater or lesser invasiveness? Suppose your mailman tried the front door of every house he stopped at, just to see if it's locked--not trying to pick the lock or break in, but just trying to turn the knob to see if it will turn and he can open the door and peek in. Pretty creepy, huh? I'd go balistic if I found out my mailman were doing that, even though I always lock my door. Those who don't lock their doors knowingly take a calculated risk, and although I think they're foolish I don't think the mailman has any business trying to open their front doors when nobody's home. In the case of E-Gold it isn't nearly as creepy, but I think the same principal should apply. Here's the moral solution: Inform people about basic password security, encourage them to take personal responsibility for their own affairs, _expect_ them to take personal responsibility for their own affairs, and when they don't, feel sorry for them but hope they learned and don't pretend it's anyone's fault but their own. It's like William Penn said--if you protect men from folly, you'll get a nation of fools. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: now here's a moral dilemma
Here's the moral solution: Inform people about basic password security, encourage them to take personal responsibility for their own affairs, _expect_ them to take personal responsibility for their own affairs, and when they don't, feel sorry for them but hope they learned and don't pretend it's anyone's fault but their own. It's like William Penn said--if you protect men from folly, you'll get a nation of fools. I think you're probably right, Sam! --- Great ventures create great mottos. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: Is this evidence ?
Try the first two test on this page. I am not sure if they are evidence. But you will get something on your system without opening an attachement... http://www.finjan.com/mcrc/test.cfm Both tests asked me if I wanted to install and run some executable code on my machine. We software engineers have a very technical and esoteric defense against such a sophisticated attack...we say no. Like I said, you have to open an attachment or voluntarily run an executable in order to get a trojan. No one can just push one onto your machine. So be _very_ careful about whose attachments and executables you trust. Among other things, my Spidey-sense tingles when an applet wants to run with full permissions. As a general rule of thumb, think of an applet as a teenager, and think of the full permissions for which it might ask as a bottle of whiskey and the keys to your car. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: now here's a moral dilemma
THE GOLDDATE SERVER COULD IN FACT EASILY GO TO THE EGOLD SERVER, AT THAT MOMENT, AND *TRY TO LOG IN AS THE PERSON* .. to CHECK whether the person was foolish enough to use their egold password as their GoldDate password. The developer could offer that as a free service. Check this box to verify passphrase integrity It would check combinations of the birthdate name, common dictionary words, etc... against the given passphrase. If the person did make that mistake, the server would say we told you NOT TO USE your egold password - we could have stolen all your gold just now. Choose a better password, doper Maybe not include the point about stealing their gold, but definitely bitch them out for making such a dumb move. Because they'll probably give the passphrase out to somebody without similar moral standards. They will then complain that e-gold is insecure and should implement grandiose, useless/ineffective means of 'security'. con -- is breaking into their account! liability if person is ever hacked, even if innocent, etc. Yeah. Because they will probably give their passphrase out again and you were the only one that made a show of 'verifying' their account. Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: now here's a moral dilemma
SHOULD ALL EGOLD RELATED SITES DO THIS? Certainly not! If people are told quite clearly by both E-Gold and the site they are joining not to do something as it is unsafe, yet they do it anyway, on their own heads be it. We are all adults. I think the exact analogy in the real world is a restaurant or similar which puts up signs stating things like Bag snatchers operate in this area. Please do not leave your bag unattended or Please be careful of your valuables while in this shop, as thefts do occur! Now when some idiot then goes and leaves her purse on the ground and it gets stolen, is the store responsible for the loss? Obviously not. Should the shop attendant run and hide the bag, then when the person complains give them a lecture? I would hope not. Live and learn! New Books at Discount Prices --- Send the right message --- + Today freemail + Get your free, private email address at http://www.today.com.au --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: now here's a moral dilemma
We are all adults. I think the exact analogy in the real world is a restaurant or similar which puts up signs stating things like Bag snatchers operate in this area. Please do not leave your bag unattended or Please be careful of your valuables while in this shop, as thefts do occur! Now when some idiot then goes and leaves her purse on the ground and it gets stolen, is the store responsible for the loss? Obviously not. Should the shop attendant run and hide the bag, then when the person complains give them a lecture? I would hope not. Live and learn! About five years ago there was a series of break-ins in the parking lot of my favorite watering hole. One night a cop came into the bar around midnight to warn us all to make sure that our cars were locked and the windows closed. He left the keys in the police cruiser with the engine running while he was giving us this warning. Take a wild guess what happened next! I quite agree--live and learn. It's not a scam! You give them all your credit card numbers, and if one is lucky, you win a prize!--Grandpa Simpson --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Due Process - In defense of e-gold
Ken Griffith wrote: Many people have complained that e-gold doesn't just freeze funds or reverse a spend when they report that their account has been hacked. There is a reason for this. It is called due process. If someone has stolen money from your account, report it to the FBI or the local Melbourne, Florida police department, and hire a lawyer to get a court order telling e-gold to produce the records showing where that money was spent to and when. E-gold states on their website that they will cooperate with law enforcement agencies. end Ka Seong The problem is how to produce a court order and convince the FBI when you can't even produce a single clue about the culprit, their name, where they stay etc. Only E-gold has the identity. The victim only has the Book-Entry record showing which E-gold account his fund was spent to. People who are in legitimate E-gold business will definitely work with E-gold to unfrozen their account by proving to E-gold that, that was a legitimate transaction by the spender (or spenders!!!) So, in the goldmine's case or the AVIDAs case, let's frozen thier account and see if they make noise (If it is good noise, E-Gold's GOOD PR should be able to handle, right?). If they don't and won't make noise because they know what they have done illegally. If they do, they will have their identity revealed. Only E-gold can let them know they can't get away easily if they are ripping E-gold's customer Ka Seong --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
