[Elecraft] K3 DSP NR for SSB, settings you like ?
I know we all have our own unique noise environment but I am curious what settings others use for reducing the background noise on SSB. Not for really digging into a noise issue but for just reducing the background noise for comfortable listening. I have been playing around with the different settings and found F4-1 or F5-1 seem to be decent. Still experimenting. I use a 2.8 kHz bandwidth to start and then narrow down as need be. I have the 1.8kHz filter installed for SSB. Bob K6UJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 DSP NR for SSB, settings you like ?
Hello Bob, I used the similar settings as yours but still feel that in SSB, Icom's NR is better and more comfortable to listen. I have 2.7Khz filters for SSB. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 寄件人︰ Bob K6UJ k...@pacbell.net 收件人︰ Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2012年11月8日 (週四) 9:33 AM 主題︰ [Elecraft] K3 DSP NR for SSB, settings you like ? I know we all have our own unique noise environment but I am curious what settings others use for reducing the background noise on SSB. Not for really digging into a noise issue but for just reducing the background noise for comfortable listening. I have been playing around with the different settings and found F4-1 or F5-1 seem to be decent. Still experimenting. I use a 2.8 kHz bandwidth to start and then narrow down as need be. I have the 1.8kHz filter installed for SSB. Bob K6UJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: DSP NR for Data A mode?
Is it possible to implement Noise Reduction in the DSP for Data A mode? Or is it a really stupid idea? The PSK software I use -- cocoaModem for the Mac -- has a noise reduction mode which works reasonably well when it is receiving a broad spectrum signal -- 2 KHz or more. It does not work well at all when I narrow the DSP bandwidth to eliminate strong nearby signals. This situation leads to the annoying situation where I can copy a weak station when the bandwidth is broad, but not when I have narrowed it to eliminate strong nearby stations. The strong nearby stations overload my SignaLink AtoD converter which keeps me from copying the station. It seems to me the DSP is in a position to apply noise reduction before the narrow band filter, if that is the best way to perform noise reduction. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV - Bill Frantz| Airline peanut bag: Produced | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | in a facility that processes | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts. - Duh | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: DSP NR for Data A mode?
Have you tried using a narrower filter in the K3 or using the K3 NR? Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:03:20 -0700, Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com wrote: Is it possible to implement Noise Reduction in the DSP for Data A mode? Or is it a really stupid idea? The PSK software I use -- cocoaModem for the Mac -- has a noise reduction mode which works reasonably well when it is receiving a broad spectrum signal -- 2 KHz or more. It does not work well at all when I narrow the DSP bandwidth to eliminate strong nearby signals. This situation leads to the annoying situation where I can copy a weak station when the bandwidth is broad, but not when I have narrowed it to eliminate strong nearby stations. The strong nearby stations overload my SignaLink AtoD converter which keeps me from copying the station. It seems to me the DSP is in a position to apply noise reduction before the narrow band filter, if that is the best way to perform noise reduction. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV - Bill Frantz| Airline peanut bag: Produced | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | in a facility that processes | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts. - Duh | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: DSP NR for Data A mode?
Note that NR is not available in DATA A mode -- K3 manual p25: NR turns noise reduction on. It doesn’t apply to DATA or FM modes, or with AGC turned off. Ray identified why I would like the K3 NR to work in DATA A when he said, NR algorithms -need- a broad chunk of spectrum. If the DSP NR could work on a broad spectrum before filtering it would have enough data to separate signal from noise. I'm not trying to get NR to deal with strong nearby signals, but when I narrow the bandwidth to get rid of them, my post-narrowing NR no longer works so I'm looking for pre-narrowing NR. I have used the notch filter, but it takes time to deploy, and can't deal with two separate loud signals. By experience, narrowing the DSP bandwidth is operationally easier and more effective. I suppose I should bite the bullet and get a 24 bit USB sound card. Does anyone have any recommendations? [It hurts to spend money for a 24 bit A/D converter which is going to convert analog the radio has produced using a 24 bit D/A converter. It's just unaesthetic.] Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 7/20/12 at 10:43, li...@n5ge.com (N5GE) wrote: Have you tried using a narrower filter in the K3 or using the K3 NR? On 7/20/12 at 11:11, raysil...@verizon.net (Ray Sills) wrote: Well, the way I see it Noise Reduction won't help you get rid of strong nearby (in frequency and/or QTH) signals. That would be the job of a notch filter. In fact, I think NR algorithms -need- a broad chunk of spectrum, so as to be able to identify what is signal and what is noise. If you narrow the DSP bandwidth, the software many not have enough noise to work with. If those strong signals are overloading the A/D converter, you would be better off lowering the level fed to the converter. I think the SignaLink uses a 16 bit converter, and this is where a 24 bit converter would work much better, since it has 24 dB more dynamic range (before clipping). --- Bill Frantz| The only thing we have to | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | fear is fear itself. - FDR | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: DSP NR for Data A mode?
Bill, I have not found 24 bit soundcards to be a requirement for data modes. 16 bit soundcards will do just fine. Yes, NR is not available in Data modes because it distorts the signal and would result in reduced copyability. The object is to produce as clean a signal as possible to the soundcard. What you observed is a true consequence of how most noise reduction algorithms work. They assume that the noise is distributed evenly across the bandwidth they are receiving, and configure a filter to reduce that noise. If you narrow the bandwidth, that noise begins to appear (to the mathematics) more and more like a signal that should not be interfered with. I would suggest that the best solution is to allow the data mode software to sort things out to the best of its ability. If you reduce the signal width sufficiently to home in to the desired signal, then I would expect the data software to be able to decode properly (at its limits of rejection) using a wide bandwidth, and also be able to decode quite well with a very narrow bandwidth, but at intermediate widths, the datamode application software will not have enough bandwidth to properly discern what is noise and which is a proper signal. The noise reduction in many data mode applications is actually quite good. So my suggestion is to allow that data mode application to use its noise reduction capability (which requires a wide bandwidth), but if you are struggling to receive a signal, narrow the RX bandwidth to the narrowest possible and see if the QSO can continue. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/20/2012 5:57 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: Note that NR is not available in DATA A mode -- K3 manual p25: NR turns noise reduction on. It doesn’t apply to DATA or FM modes, or with AGC turned off. Ray identified why I would like the K3 NR to work in DATA A when he said, NR algorithms -need- a broad chunk of spectrum. If the DSP NR could work on a broad spectrum before filtering it would have enough data to separate signal from noise. I'm not trying to get NR to deal with strong nearby signals, but when I narrow the bandwidth to get rid of them, my post-narrowing NR no longer works so I'm looking for pre-narrowing NR. I have used the notch filter, but it takes time to deploy, and can't deal with two separate loud signals. By experience, narrowing the DSP bandwidth is operationally easier and more effective. I suppose I should bite the bullet and get a 24 bit USB sound card. Does anyone have any recommendations? [It hurts to spend money for a 24 bit A/D converter which is going to convert analog the radio has produced using a 24 bit D/A converter. It's just unaesthetic.] Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 7/20/12 at 10:43, li...@n5ge.com (N5GE) wrote: Have you tried using a narrower filter in the K3 or using the K3 NR? On 7/20/12 at 11:11, raysil...@verizon.net (Ray Sills) wrote: Well, the way I see it Noise Reduction won't help you get rid of strong nearby (in frequency and/or QTH) signals. That would be the job of a notch filter. In fact, I think NR algorithms -need- a broad chunk of spectrum, so as to be able to identify what is signal and what is noise. If you narrow the DSP bandwidth, the software many not have enough noise to work with. If those strong signals are overloading the A/D converter, you would be better off lowering the level fed to the converter. I think the SignaLink uses a 16 bit converter, and this is where a 24 bit converter would work much better, since it has 24 dB more dynamic range (before clipping). --- Bill Frantz| The only thing we have to | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | fear is fear itself. - FDR | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
Hello Tim, Yes, I agree with me that it would worth a try. There are always Beta version of FW for our evaluation. This is the selling point of elecraft. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 從︰ Tim Tucker ae...@worldwidedx.com 收件人︰ Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2011年05月18日 (週三) 11:11 AM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion *Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left number and the VFO B knob change the right number. This way you can increment or decrement either. * That would work too. *frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest, when the current system works fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.* I understand that not everyone would like this. That isn't the point. Clearly there are enough people that have some issue with the way the NR/NB is implemented that some discussion on other points of view can't hurt. If you could change the way it works to either method, it would satisfy either use case scenario. And BTW, I'm also an extremely experienced software developer, so I understand the implications of what I'm asking. Elecraft knows the code base; we don't, so I'll defer to their judgment on how difficult it is to implement. Tim __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
Hmmm..I would like to try this also! Gary On 18 May 2011 16:55, Johnny Siu vr2...@yahoo.com.hk wrote: Hello Tim, Yes, I agree with me that it would worth a try. There are always Beta version of FW for our evaluation. This is the selling point of elecraft. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 從︰ Tim Tucker ae...@worldwidedx.com 收件人︰ Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2011年05月18日 (週三) 11:11 AM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion *Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left number and the VFO B knob change the right number. This way you can increment or decrement either. * That would work too. *frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest, when the current system works fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.* I understand that not everyone would like this. That isn't the point. Clearly there are enough people that have some issue with the way the NR/NB is implemented that some discussion on other points of view can't hurt. If you could change the way it works to either method, it would satisfy either use case scenario. And BTW, I'm also an extremely experienced software developer, so I understand the implications of what I'm asking. Elecraft knows the code base; we don't, so I'll defer to their judgment on how difficult it is to implement. Tim __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
I like Tim's suggestion and would like to try/Beta test. 73 Dave G3WGN WJ6O - 73 Dave G3WGN WJ6O -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Simple-NR-NB-feature-suggestion-tp6375085p6377133.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as compared to other rigs. I've used NR functionality in many different rigs, as well as just about every after market solution. In my area, the QRM makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity. Part of makes the NR NB seem easier to use in other rigs (like Icoms) is that the setting is continually variable from least to most. The operator can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening style and can easily back it down. As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that correctly ;) ) Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings. For example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already know that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1. But I can't do that without cycling through them all. Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2, 5-3, etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was 5-1. Same thing applies with NB settings. If we could have a menu button while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be very powerful and very awesome! For the NR, you would need to preserve the groupings that are intended for CW/digital voice. As I understand it, settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4 are intended for phone? Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR option, when activated would cycle like this: 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2, 6-2, 7-2, 8-2, (etc.). The NB could have the same feature. It seems like it would be a fairly simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like implementation and the Elecraft implementation. You should also be able to switch it easily back and forth between the two options. Does anybody else like this concept? Tim AE6LX www.worldwidedx.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
Tim, I like this idea for the same reasons you articulated so well. Regards, Al W6LX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
Tim: Sounds like a good idea to put them in that order and then drop the F and number them 1through 32. Sometimes simple is better! Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Tim Tucker ae...@worldwidedx.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:43 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as compared to other rigs. I've used NR functionality in many different rigs, as well as just about every after market solution. In my area, the QRM makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity. Part of makes the NR NB seem easier to use in other rigs (like Icoms) is that the setting is continually variable from least to most. The operator can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening style and can easily back it down. As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that correctly ;) ) Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings. For example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already know that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1. But I can't do that without cycling through them all. Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2, 5-3, etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was 5-1. Same thing applies with NB settings. If we could have a menu button while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be very powerful and very awesome! For the NR, you would need to preserve the groupings that are intended for CW/digital voice. As I understand it, settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4 are intended for phone? Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR option, when activated would cycle like this: 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2, 6-2, 7-2, 8-2, (etc.). The NB could have the same feature. It seems like it would be a fairly simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like implementation and the Elecraft implementation. You should also be able to switch it easily back and forth between the two options. Does anybody else like this concept? Tim AE6LX www.worldwidedx.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
I don't. See below... On Tue, 17 May 2011 13:43:15 -0700, Tim Tucker ae...@worldwidedx.com wrote: I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as compared to other rigs. I've used NR functionality in many different rigs, as well as just about every after market solution. In my area, the QRM makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity. Part of makes the NR NB seem easier to use in other rigs (like Icoms) is that the setting is continually variable from least to most. The operator can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening style and can easily back it down. As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that correctly ;) ) I like the groups, they kelp me know where I am in the sequence. Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings. For example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already know that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1. But I can't do that without cycling through them all. Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2, 5-3, etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was 5-1. Same thing applies with NB settings. If we could have a menu button while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be very powerful and very awesome! For the NR, you would need to preserve the groupings that are intended for CW/digital voice. As I understand it, settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4 are intended for phone? Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR option, when activated would cycle like this: 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2, 6-2, 7-2, 8-2, (etc.). I probably don't really understand what you are doing here, but on the surface it seems to me you are asking that the settings be grouped by number instead of a text description. The NB could have the same feature. It seems like it would be a fairly simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like implementation and the Elecraft implementation. You should also be able to switch it easily back and forth between the two options. Does anybody else like this concept? Being a software developer, I can tell you that what you are asking for is not a fairly simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes and frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest, when the current system works fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Tim AE6LX [snip] __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
Good suggestion. I like it. 73, Charlie, K4ZRJ Sent from my MacBook Pro. On May 17, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Tim Tucker wrote: I've followed the various discussions on how well the NR/NB works as compared to other rigs. I've used NR functionality in many different rigs, as well as just about every after market solution. In my area, the QRM makes NR/NB absolutely a necessity. Part of makes the NR NB seem easier to use in other rigs (like Icoms) is that the setting is continually variable from least to most. The operator can tell when he's gotten too aggressive with it to suit his listening style and can easily back it down. As we all know, the K3 allows you to cycle through the various levels within an group setting and then you go through that cycle again with the next group setting (I think I said that correctly ;) ) Here's my feature suggestion - For me, it seems that I am often trying to compare the amount of NR/NB applied between the major groupings. For example, when I operate SSB (which is most of the time), I may already know that I want just a little NR based on what I hear, but I want to hear the difference between 5-1, 6-1,7-1, and 8-1. But I can't do that without cycling through them all. Also, because I have to go from 5-1 to 5-2, 5-3, etc. before I get to 6-1, my ears have lost the reference point, which was 5-1. Same thing applies with NB settings. If we could have a menu button while in DSP adjustment that would rearrange the settings so they cycled through the groups at the same level setting first, I think it would be very powerful and very awesome! For the NR, you would need to preserve the groupings that are intended for CW/digital voice. As I understand it, settings 1-1 through 4-4 are intended for CW/digital and 5-1 through 8-4 are intended for phone? Assuming my previous statement is correct, the new NR option, when activated would cycle like this: 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. 4-2, (etc), 5-1, 6-1, 7-1, 8-1, 5-2, 6-2, 7-2, 8-2, (etc.). The NB could have the same feature. It seems like it would be a fairly simple firmware feature addition without doing major changes to the actual NR/NB algorithms and also bridge the differences between an Icom like implementation and the Elecraft implementation. You should also be able to switch it easily back and forth between the two options. Does anybody else like this concept? Tim AE6LX www.worldwidedx.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left number and the VFO B knob change the right number. This way you can increment or decrement either. Frank - W4NHJ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Simple-NR-NB-feature-suggestion-tp6375085p6376148.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Simple NR/NB feature suggestion
*Another suggestion is to have the main tuning knob change the left number and the VFO B knob change the right number. This way you can increment or decrement either. * That would work too. *frankly I don't think it is a good idea to make a change like you suggest, when the current system works fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.* I understand that not everyone would like this. That isn't the point. Clearly there are enough people that have some issue with the way the NR/NB is implemented that some discussion on other points of view can't hurt. If you could change the way it works to either method, it would satisfy either use case scenario. And BTW, I'm also an extremely experienced software developer, so I understand the implications of what I'm asking. Elecraft knows the code base; we don't, so I'll defer to their judgment on how difficult it is to implement. Tim __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: NB/NR and AM SWL?
Hello group, What are the optimal NB/NR settings for use with AM and AM-S? I'm interested in using those features for those times when I SWL, but can't seem to find a setting that doesn't overly alter audio quality. The NR for example seems to reduce the dynamic range, making audio sound very quiet and muffled. The NB on the other hand starts to distort the audio past anything but the lowest settings. Any suggestions? Mni tnx! -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: NB/NR and AM SWL?
James, The only answer I can give is experiment. There is no setting that is good for any particular mode, but the setting of NB/NR must be customized for the noise source. That noise source will vary from location to location, and from time to time. The best I can offer is to familiarize yourself with the controls and theory of operation for both NB and NR and use that knowledge to combat whatever form of noise you are encountering at your location. In other words, there is no magic bullet - it depends more on the noise source than on the K3 capabilities. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/16/2010 7:47 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, What are the optimal NB/NR settings for use with AM and AM-S? I'm interested in using those features for those times when I SWL, but can't seem to find a setting that doesn't overly alter audio quality. The NR for example seems to reduce the dynamic range, making audio sound very quiet and muffled. The NB on the other hand starts to distort the audio past anything but the lowest settings. Any suggestions? Mni tnx! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] NB/NR Info Request
If possible I'd like to slip a non-APF item into the stream: I'm looking for a reference on how to *use* the NB and NR functions. I've read the archive stuff about how they work, but I'm still not able to get much benefit from either one, and Amazon doesn't seem to carry K3 NB/NR For Dummies. Part of the problem is I don't know what to expect from them. I operate mainly CW with a little RTTY, occasionally SSB. I was stumbling around in the CQ WW SSB this last weekend and found that about all I could do was make reception worse. Of course both 15 and 20 were wall-to-wall zoos, maybe not the best test environment. I have intermittent power line hash, sometimes runs S5 at night on 80m. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] NB/NR Info Request
I have a copy of the K3 NB/NR for dummies book, I got it at globalexchange I'll send you the whole thing to your personal email. Enjoy. Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:55:14 -0700 From: k6...@foothill.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] NB/NR Info Request If possible I'd like to slip a non-APF item into the stream: I'm looking for a reference on how to *use* the NB and NR functions. I've read the archive stuff about how they work, but I'm still not able to get much benefit from either one, and Amazon doesn't seem to carry K3 NB/NR For Dummies. Part of the problem is I don't know what to expect from them. I operate mainly CW with a little RTTY, occasionally SSB. I was stumbling around in the CQ WW SSB this last weekend and found that about all I could do was make reception worse. Of course both 15 and 20 were wall-to-wall zoos, maybe not the best test environment. I have intermittent power line hash, sometimes runs S5 at night on 80m. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Retaining NR settings
Now that the K3 firmware is mature and the DSP noise reduction feature works extremely well, isn’t it time for the firmware to retain NR after power cycling? I’m not asking for memory of per band/mode NR settings (although that would be wonderful!), but NR users should not have to turn this feature on every time they power up the rig. I know this was on the list in the past, but it seems like time to move it to the top. Thanks. Steve N9SZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Retaining NR settings
In addition to power up memory, I'd really like Mode memory. I find my CW DSP settings to be considerably different than my SSB DSP setting (and a real PITA to change them). - 73, John Steven.Zabarnick wrote: Now that the K3 firmware is mature and the DSP noise reduction feature works extremely well, isn’t it time for the firmware to retain NR after power cycling? I’m not asking for memory of per band/mode NR settings (although that would be wonderful!), but NR users should not have to turn this feature on every time they power up the rig. I know this was on the list in the past, but it seems like time to move it to the top. Thanks. Steve N9SZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Retaining-NR-settings-tp4101660p4103042.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
David Woolley (E.L) wrote: The main source of published research on real time noise reduction of audible signals seems to be the hearing aid industry. I just came across this article suggesting that hearing aid noise reduction strategies make people think that the noise is less sever, but don't actually make the signal any more intelligible. Trends in Amplification, Volume 10, No. 2, June 2006: Acceptance of Background Noise, Mueller et al. http://tia.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/10/2/83.pdf That's an interesting article David! It agrees with my feelings over the many years I've tried various types of noise reduction. Sometimes I think we're fooled by the level changes introduced by NR, when in fact we could probably do as well simply by turning AF Gain down a little. A few years ago when NQ5T and I both had Orions, I challenged Grant to measure the actual S/N with NR on and off. At narrow bandwidths, there was no difference in measured S/N. Of course this was for CW where NR simply builds a narrow filter around a discrete signal. I believe a filter is a filter is a filter...whether crystal, DSP or NR. There is no magic. 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515659p3541483.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
Bill W4ZV wrote: David Woolley (E.L) wrote: The main source of published research on real time noise reduction of audible signals seems to be the hearing aid industry. I just came across this article suggesting that hearing aid noise reduction strategies make people think that the noise is less sever, but don't actually make the signal any more intelligible. Trends in Amplification, Volume 10, No. 2, June 2006: Acceptance of Background Noise, Mueller et al. http://tia.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/10/2/83.pdf That's an interesting article David! It agrees with my feelings over the many years I've tried various types of noise reduction. Sometimes I think we're fooled by the level changes introduced by NR, when in fact we could probably do as well simply by turning AF Gain down a little. A few years ago when NQ5T and I both had Orions, I challenged Grant to measure the actual S/N with NR on and off. At narrow bandwidths, there was no difference in measured S/N. Of course this was for CW where NR simply builds a narrow filter around a discrete signal. This was for Orion II, but for anyone interested, here's the summary by Grant NQ5T: http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/TenTec/2006-03/msg01118.html On March 25, 2006, NQ5T wrote: [TenTec] Orion II NR Performance Measurements I won't bore you with the setup here, but will be happy to provide details to anyone who is interested. Consistent results were obtained by two independent methods: (1) graphical computation of SNNR, and (2) spectral analysis software that directly computes an estimate of SNR. The results are as follows (LCW, 1000Hz spot tone, NR=9) BW=3000Hz: SNNR improves by approx 1dB with NR=9. BW=500Hz: SNNR degrades by approx 2dB with NR=9. There is improvement at 3 Khz bandwidth, but it's negligible. At 500 Hz (and anything below that as well) you're better off without NR at all. The distortion created by NR at any bandwidth in both CW tone and SSB voice is very unpleasant compared to typical noise reduction products. Even without having a v1 Orion to compare with I'm basically moving from the uncertain bench to the put it back the way it was bench. Grant/NQ5T -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515659p3542357.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
Bill W4ZV wrote: [about NR and SNR] I've been watching this thread with interest. For a few years and several different radios, I've been repeating the same test: 1) Tune around with a bandwidth of about 400 Hz. Find a weak CW signal close to the noise which I can't copy 100%. 2) Try all the possible techniques to improve intelligibility, looking for the ones that improve the percentage of copy. Here is what I've learned: 1) If there is a kind of noise that a NB will reduce, that helps. 2) If there is not too much noise, reducing the bandwidth further helps. I sometimes go down to 50 Hz. on the K3. But on a noisy band this makes it worse. 3) AFX doesn't matter one way or the other. 4) Dual-diversity reception (polarization diversity) *REALLY* helps. IMHO this is one of the K3's greatest features. 5) NR doesn't help with the weakest signals. 6) I can't decide what pitch is best. Usually I use around 500 Hz. but that's because I like the sound of it. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 NB NR
I recently had an issue with electric fences (living in a rural environment), the AGC PLS did not seem to make a lot of a difference and the noise blanker was unable to mask the loud clicks. Now with Beta 3.27, while everyone is talking about noise reduction, I notice that the noise blanker can suppress the strongest fence clicks and the AGC PLS does make a (big) difference! Quite a change... I do not remember reading anything about this but it seems not only the NR was improved. Thanks! Richard - HB9ANM -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NB-NR-tp3542607p3542607.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 NB NR
I have had some results like Richard, on 40 meters the Chinese dragon has been active again and in the past the K3 is useless against this type of radar. Much to my surprise it blanked the Dragon this time, I have some distant power line noise that I was also never able to blank and now the K3 blanks that decently as well. I do not think there was any mention of changes in the NB and perhaps there ware none directly, but there sure have been some side effects in any case, works much better than before at least on this K3. 73 Merv KH7C I recently had an issue with electric fences (living in a rural environment), the AGC PLS did not seem to make a lot of a difference and the noise blanker was unable to mask the loud clicks. Now with Beta 3.27, while everyone is talking about noise reduction, I notice that the noise blanker can suppress the strongest fence clicks and the AGC PLS does make a (big) difference! Quite a change... I do not remember reading anything about this but it seems not only the NR was improved. Thanks! Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 NB NR
Which noise blanker are you and Richard talking about - the hardware blanker or the DSP blanker? Bob NW8L On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Merv Schweigertk...@flex.com wrote: I have had some results like Richard, on 40 meters the Chinese dragon has been active again and in the past the K3 is useless against this type of radar. Much to my surprise it blanked the Dragon this time, I have some distant power line noise that I was also never able to blank and now the K3 blanks that decently as well. I do not think there was any mention of changes in the NB and perhaps there ware none directly, but there sure have been some side effects in any case, works much better than before at least on this K3. 73 Merv KH7C I recently had an issue with electric fences (living in a rural environment), the AGC PLS did not seem to make a lot of a difference and the noise blanker was unable to mask the loud clicks. Now with Beta 3.27, while everyone is talking about noise reduction, I notice that the noise blanker can suppress the strongest fence clicks and the AGC PLS does make a (big) difference! Quite a change... I do not remember reading anything about this but it seems not only the NR was improved. Thanks! Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 NB NR
Bob Cunnings wrote: Which noise blanker are you and Richard talking about - the hardware blanker or the DSP blanker? Bob NW8L On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Merv Schweigertk...@flex.com wrote: I have had some results like Richard, on 40 meters the Chinese dragon has been active again and in the past the K3 is useless against this type of radar. Much to my surprise it blanked the Dragon this time, I have some distant power line noise that I was also never able to blank and now the K3 blanks that decently as well. I do not think there was any mention of changes in the NB and perhaps there ware none directly, but there sure have been some side effects in any case, works much better than before at least on this K3. 73 Merv KH7C I recently had an issue with electric fences (living in a rural environment), the AGC PLS did not seem to make a lot of a difference and the noise blanker was unable to mask the loud clicks. Now with Beta 3.27, while everyone is talking about noise reduction, I notice that the noise blanker can suppress the strongest fence clicks and the AGC PLS does make a (big) difference! Quite a change... I do not remember reading anything about this but it seems not only the NR was improved. Thanks! Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NB-NR-tp3542607p3543474.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 NB NR
Bob, Both! But mainly the AGC PLS which has become very effective Richard - HB9ANM Richard Squire wrote: Bob Cunnings wrote: Which noise blanker are you and Richard talking about - the hardware blanker or the DSP blanker? Bob NW8L On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Merv Schweigertk...@flex.com wrote: I have had some results like Richard, on 40 meters the Chinese dragon has been active again and in the past the K3 is uselessoth! against this type of radar. Much to my surprise it blanked the Dragon this time, I have some distant power line noise that I was also never able to blank and now the K3 blanks that decently as well. I do not think there was any mention of changes in the NB and perhaps there ware none directly, but there sure have been some side effects in any case, works much better than before at least on this K3. 73 Merv KH7C I recently had an issue with electric fences (living in a rural environment), the AGC PLS did not seem to make a lot of a difference and the noise blanker was unable to mask the loud clicks. Now with Beta 3.27, while everyone is talking about noise reduction, I notice that the noise blanker can suppress the strongest fence clicks and the AGC PLS does make a (big) difference! Quite a change... I do not remember reading anything about this but it seems not only the NR was improved. Thanks! Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NB-NR-tp3542607p3543483.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 NB NR
Bob, for me its both, on the Dragon it takes both to do the job, DSP T2-5 and IF Nar 5 removed the Dragon quite well .. On the distant line noise I can sometimes get by with just the IF blanker, but usually takes both there also. But less aggressive settings. Merv KH7C Which noise blanker are you and Richard talking about - the hardware blanker or the DSP blanker? Bob NW8L On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Merv Schweigertk...@flex.com wrote: I have had some results like Richard, on 40 meters the Chinese dragon has been active again and in the past the K3 is useless against this type of radar. Much to my surprise it blanked the Dragon this time, I have some distant power line noise that I was also never able to blank and now the K3 blanks that decently as well. I do not think there was any mention of changes in the NB and perhaps there ware none directly, but there sure have been some side effects in any case, works much better than before at least on this K3. 73 Merv KH7C I recently had an issue with electric fences (living in a rural environment), the AGC PLS did not seem to make a lot of a difference and the noise blanker was unable to mask the loud clicks. Now with Beta 3.27, while everyone is talking about noise reduction, I notice that the noise blanker can suppress the strongest fence clicks and the AGC PLS does make a (big) difference! Quite a change... I do not remember reading anything about this but it seems not only the NR was improved. Thanks! Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR triggering
Steve Ellington wrote: I just had a CW QSO on a noisy 80m. Here's what I noticed with NR set for F1-3. BW set for 2.5 kHz. QRN very loud! I pushed NR. Band goes almost totally silent. Calling CQ with the bug was like being in TX mode but I was using QSK as always. Wow...Nice and quiet. Then someone answered my CQ. On his very first DIT, the noise level jumped up and stayed up throughout the entire QSO. It was quieter than no NR at all but why should it stay that way??? Remember that NR is an adaptive filter. When you perturb it with a coherent signal it rebuilds the filter around that signal. F1 is the longest tap setting which means it has the greatest stored data stream and will take the longest to respond when you add new data (i.e. a signal). Once the new input to the filter (signal plus noise) is steady state, the filter will then stay in that state until the inputs change again (i.e. when the signal goes away). 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-triggering-tp3521099p3524344.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
Joe: I listended with a Heil ProSet last night... I will check the impedance, dont know it offhand. True, a mismatch would add to the effect. -lu- - Original Message Follows - From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com To: 'Lu Romero - W4LT' lrom...@ij.net, elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:19:23 -0400 I prefer the sound of the 3.25 version for ssb, its cleaner and somewhat less bright (flatter in response). I had to tweak the RX EQ to add some bass in the 3.27 version or it sounds harsh in my headsets (I dont use speakers hardly ever, btw). What is the impedance of your headphones? With anything less than 100 Ohms or so, the stock 10 uF headphone coupling caps cause a significant LF roll off - particularly with 8 Ohm cans. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lu Romero - W4LT Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:09 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR Lyle: Just played with the NR in both SSB and CW, on 80 and 40. First, I can hear the change of the filters now without turning things on and off, as you mentioned it would work. The frequency response is decidedly less flat (less bassy) than the sound of 3.25. For CW, the 3 and 4 settings are much more efficient, not so in SSB, where the 1 and 2 settings are much cleaner sounding and better copy. I found that with no antenna and with the RF gain turned to 12 o'clock... Turn on the NR and all receiver white noise mutes and slowly ramps up. That's a recursive effect, I guess. I prefer the sound of the 3.25 version for ssb, its cleaner and somewhat less bright (flatter in response). I had to tweak the RX EQ to add some bass in the 3.27 version or it sounds harsh in my headsets (I dont use speakers hardly ever, btw). Inteligibility is marginally better with 3.27 on ssb and quite a bit better on CW, so you have drifted a bit to the CW side of the equation, but with a decent compromise for SSB. No more boingy peakyness in any mode, which is good, and the level while it still drops a bit, is better behaved. Can I assume from some comments I have read here that the NR process is pre EQ and AGC? How exactly do the processes stack in the radio architecture? If NR is at the top of the stack, a decent fix might be to somehow gang these three processes using presets so that they can be set up ahead of time and recalled from a memory button by the user. As an old brodcaster, we used to preset things in Switchers (vision mixers to UK readers) using a process called E-MEM... Which could recall preset parameters in salvos to preset multiple settings. This might work here. This would be handy in a contest environment where a minimum of tweaking and rapid adaptation to changing conditions is needed... You could play outside of a contest and create the settings then in the heat of battle, recall them with a single button push from a canned setup. It wouldnt be perfect for any environment, but it might mean the difference between working a mult and not working a mult. And multipliers, after all, are :) As you said, every receiving environment is different, but some generalizations can be made and being able to recall the multiple settings would be a definite plus feature of the radio. Thanks for letting us test these iterations. Lu Romero - W4LT K3 # 3192 Lyle Johnson wrote: ...For now I'll treat the parameter as an opaque series of magic numbers. The way the new beta NR works is: Fx-y x selects the length of the filter. F1 = 121 taps, F2 = 91 taps, F3 = 61 taps, F4 = 31 taps (The Beta 3.25 release used FIR filters of 61 taps.) y selects values of Beta (gain), decay, and delay (how long the NR algorithm waits to process a signal) (The Beta 3.5 release used the x parameter for these selections) 73, Lyle KK7P ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515659p3520809.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR triggering
Thanks for the nice explanation Bill. It is effective but weird. Somone needs to make a movie. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Bill W4ZV btipp...@alum.mit.edu To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR triggering Steve Ellington wrote: I just had a CW QSO on a noisy 80m. Here's what I noticed with NR set for F1-3. BW set for 2.5 kHz. QRN very loud! I pushed NR. Band goes almost totally silent. Calling CQ with the bug was like being in TX mode but I was using QSK as always. Wow...Nice and quiet. Then someone answered my CQ. On his very first DIT, the noise level jumped up and stayed up throughout the entire QSO. It was quieter than no NR at all but why should it stay that way??? Remember that NR is an adaptive filter. When you perturb it with a coherent signal it rebuilds the filter around that signal. F1 is the longest tap setting which means it has the greatest stored data stream and will take the longest to respond when you add new data (i.e. a signal). Once the new input to the filter (signal plus noise) is steady state, the filter will then stay in that state until the inputs change again (i.e. when the signal goes away). 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-triggering-tp3521099p3524344.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
I come back to 3.25 also ; was much better with 3.25. Here audio is much lower with 3.27. 73, Laurent F6DEX -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3514982p3518767.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
P.B. Christensen wrote: Until I purchased the '7800 back in 2005, the only other radio I've owned that would produce ultra-low-pitch CW was the TS-870 but I never bothered trying low pitch CW reception until I tried it with the Icom. The TS-930S had an infinitely variable PITCH control which went down to zero (and maybe even beyond to negative IF since it was analog). It simultaneously adjusted sidetone, filter center and TX offset so you were always zero beat if you matched the sidetone to the signal. It was easy to tune in a weak signal and then adjust PITCH for the optimum S/N for your ears. This is how I discovered my ears liked the 240-270 Hz range. Orion also allows setting PITCH as low as 200 Hz but I never used settings that low based on my experience with the 930. I still have my 930 and may have to drag it out to see what 50 Hz sounds like, but that sounds awfully low based on my previous experience. I still don't understand why the K3 limits us to 300 Hz PITCH when Orion (which has a very similar block diagram) goes to 200 Hz. Ten-Tec changed their original lower limit of 300 Hz to 200 Hz within a month of my request to lower it...and they also keep their crystal filters centered instead of shifting them at lower PITCH settings (as the K3 does), so the radios apparently have some differences that are not obvious to me. 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515712p3519877.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
low based on my experience with the 930. I still have my 930 and may have to drag it out to see what 50 Hz sounds like, but that sounds awfully low based on my previous experience. Not too many rigs have the audio capabilities to produce a reasonably flat response to 100 Hz and below. So, while the TS-930 may have had the ability to shift that low, it would be interesting to see if the audio path could produce the low offset. I have re-designed the audio path of the TS-850 (mods available on the KA0KA website) and TS-950 receivers, both of which required substantial invasive work to bring down below 100 Hz. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
I agree alsoWayne and the boys hit it just right for me. Great job. Very noisy 40M today and the combination of the NB 3-3 and AFX pulled real understandable voices out of junk. I will play with the setting for awhile until I fine what is optimal for me but all in all it is just splitting hairs at this point. Dan AD4C2009 wrote: Ian,I am with you,it works outstanding now,I don't even lose the audio as other said,it drops a liitle bid but still is confortable to my ears but the noise is totally GONE ! About the low end roll-off on version 3.25 was at 30 Hz,now with 3.27 is at 60Hz,who needs to hear that low? besides do your speaker respond to 30Hz,besides does anyone on ESSB respond that low? so 60 Hz is ok with me.73 to all AD4C - Dan AB3EN -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515712p3520029.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
Brett Howard wrote: As far as the shift you're mentioning are you talking about the fact that the FC star moves to the freq that you have pitch configured for? The filter is still centered in the IF land but it looks like a shift because the K3 tells you about its filters in AF terms. No. At low pitches, the MCU shifts the IF filter such that the lower side is never lower than ~200 Hz. If you're using a 500 Hz XFIL and PITCH 300, the XFIL passband is actually 200-700 Hz...not 300 +/-250 (i.e. not 50-550 which would be centered). Even though you see FC*.30 for the DSP filter, the IF filter is actually offset. 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515712p3520443.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
Lyle: Just played with the NR in both SSB and CW, on 80 and 40. First, I can hear the change of the filters now without turning things on and off, as you mentioned it would work. The frequency response is decidedly less flat (less bassy) than the sound of 3.25. For CW, the 3 and 4 settings are much more efficient, not so in SSB, where the 1 and 2 settings are much cleaner sounding and better copy. I found that with no antenna and with the RF gain turned to 12 o'clock... Turn on the NR and all receiver white noise mutes and slowly ramps up. That's a recursive effect, I guess. I prefer the sound of the 3.25 version for ssb, its cleaner and somewhat less bright (flatter in response). I had to tweak the RX EQ to add some bass in the 3.27 version or it sounds harsh in my headsets (I dont use speakers hardly ever, btw). Inteligibility is marginally better with 3.27 on ssb and quite a bit better on CW, so you have drifted a bit to the CW side of the equation, but with a decent compromise for SSB. No more boingy peakyness in any mode, which is good, and the level while it still drops a bit, is better behaved. Can I assume from some comments I have read here that the NR process is pre EQ and AGC? How exactly do the processes stack in the radio architecture? If NR is at the top of the stack, a decent fix might be to somehow gang these three processes using presets so that they can be set up ahead of time and recalled from a memory button by the user. As an old brodcaster, we used to preset things in Switchers (vision mixers to UK readers) using a process called E-MEM... Which could recall preset parameters in salvos to preset multiple settings. This might work here. This would be handy in a contest environment where a minimum of tweaking and rapid adaptation to changing conditions is needed... You could play outside of a contest and create the settings then in the heat of battle, recall them with a single button push from a canned setup. It wouldnt be perfect for any environment, but it might mean the difference between working a mult and not working a mult. And multipliers, after all, are :) As you said, every receiving environment is different, but some generalizations can be made and being able to recall the multiple settings would be a definite plus feature of the radio. Thanks for letting us test these iterations. Lu Romero - W4LT K3 # 3192 Lyle Johnson wrote: ...For now I'll treat the parameter as an opaque series of magic numbers. The way the new beta NR works is: Fx-y x selects the length of the filter. F1 = 121 taps, F2 = 91 taps, F3 = 61 taps, F4 = 31 taps (The Beta 3.25 release used FIR filters of 61 taps.) y selects values of Beta (gain), decay, and delay (how long the NR algorithm waits to process a signal) (The Beta 3.5 release used the x parameter for these selections) 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515659p3520809.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR
I prefer the sound of the 3.25 version for ssb, its cleaner and somewhat less bright (flatter in response). I had to tweak the RX EQ to add some bass in the 3.27 version or it sounds harsh in my headsets (I dont use speakers hardly ever, btw). What is the impedance of your headphones? With anything less than 100 Ohms or so, the stock 10 uF headphone coupling caps cause a significant LF roll off - particularly with 8 Ohm cans. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lu Romero - W4LT Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:09 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR Lyle: Just played with the NR in both SSB and CW, on 80 and 40. First, I can hear the change of the filters now without turning things on and off, as you mentioned it would work. The frequency response is decidedly less flat (less bassy) than the sound of 3.25. For CW, the 3 and 4 settings are much more efficient, not so in SSB, where the 1 and 2 settings are much cleaner sounding and better copy. I found that with no antenna and with the RF gain turned to 12 o'clock... Turn on the NR and all receiver white noise mutes and slowly ramps up. That's a recursive effect, I guess. I prefer the sound of the 3.25 version for ssb, its cleaner and somewhat less bright (flatter in response). I had to tweak the RX EQ to add some bass in the 3.27 version or it sounds harsh in my headsets (I dont use speakers hardly ever, btw). Inteligibility is marginally better with 3.27 on ssb and quite a bit better on CW, so you have drifted a bit to the CW side of the equation, but with a decent compromise for SSB. No more boingy peakyness in any mode, which is good, and the level while it still drops a bit, is better behaved. Can I assume from some comments I have read here that the NR process is pre EQ and AGC? How exactly do the processes stack in the radio architecture? If NR is at the top of the stack, a decent fix might be to somehow gang these three processes using presets so that they can be set up ahead of time and recalled from a memory button by the user. As an old brodcaster, we used to preset things in Switchers (vision mixers to UK readers) using a process called E-MEM... Which could recall preset parameters in salvos to preset multiple settings. This might work here. This would be handy in a contest environment where a minimum of tweaking and rapid adaptation to changing conditions is needed... You could play outside of a contest and create the settings then in the heat of battle, recall them with a single button push from a canned setup. It wouldnt be perfect for any environment, but it might mean the difference between working a mult and not working a mult. And multipliers, after all, are :) As you said, every receiving environment is different, but some generalizations can be made and being able to recall the multiple settings would be a definite plus feature of the radio. Thanks for letting us test these iterations. Lu Romero - W4LT K3 # 3192 Lyle Johnson wrote: ...For now I'll treat the parameter as an opaque series of magic numbers. The way the new beta NR works is: Fx-y x selects the length of the filter. F1 = 121 taps, F2 = 91 taps, F3 = 61 taps, F4 = 31 taps (The Beta 3.25 release used FIR filters of 61 taps.) y selects values of Beta (gain), decay, and delay (how long the NR algorithm waits to process a signal) (The Beta 3.5 release used the x parameter for these selections) 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-tp3515659p3520809.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] Nice NR improvement with Beta 3.25
I just downloaded the new utility and Beta 3.25. The DSP NR is much better in terms of not reducing the volume as much. I have never been a fan of NR because it always (on all rigs that have it not just the K3) sounded to me that the volume was reduced so much that by the time I turned the AF gain up enough to produce the same level the noise was just as bad to my lousy ears. Thanks guys! 73 Bill nz0t -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Nice-NR-improvement-with-Beta-3.25-tp3434522p3434522.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Nice NR improvement with Beta 3.25
Agreed. After about 6 minutes of exhaustive testing (hi!) I can hear a noticeable difference. I still get some volume drop when NR is switched in, but when I increase AF Gain to compensate the noise level remains low. Well done! Paul WW2PT NZ0T wrote: I just downloaded the new utility and Beta 3.25. The DSP NR is much better in terms of not reducing the volume as much. I have never been a fan of NR because it always (on all rigs that have it not just the K3) sounded to me that the volume was reduced so much that by the time I turned the AF gain up enough to produce the same level the noise was just as bad to my lousy ears. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Nice-NR-improvement-with-Beta-3.25-tp3434522p3434996.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 NB/NR Noise Blanker/ Noise reduction
Yes you're right Steve! After reading your comments below, I have now set my AGC THR high and SLP low, this REALLY does improve the NR function on both CW and SSB. (previously I had my AGC settings more or less at default values) Maybe others may wish to try this. Thanks. 73, Deni F5VJC Steve Ellington wrote: This is amazingWe have some who complain about NR increasing the audio and some complaining about it reducing audio! I think the K3's NR is the best I've seen thus far. Contrary to some experts opinion, it works great with narrow cw filters and not only reduces noise but Peaks the CW signals. Someone said it makes CW mushy. I say it does just exactly the opposite. It sharpens the AF response and enhances CW, especially weak signals that are down at the noise floor. Have had a lot of rigs, the IC-7800's NR is pretty good too. The PRO series NR is terrible. Keep in mind I'm talking about CW here. Keep that AGC threshold up high and the SLP lowIt makes the NR really bring up those CW signals nice and LOUD like they should be. N4LQ Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 NB/NR Noise Blanker/ Noise reduction
Hello Gordan, well my AGC settings are now THR 008 and SLP 000 I'm not saying this is best or optimum but it certainly improves the action of NR. I'm still experimenting, but found ( thanks to Steve), that the default AGC values for me gave ineffective NR. Be aware that you may find strong signals could be too loud with these AGC settings. I use my RF gain control, and usually it's between 11 and 1 . 73, Deni F5VJC Gordan Hribar wrote: Hello Deni! Please could you repeat again this AGC settings? 73, E72X, Gordan, --- On *Tue, 4/28/09, Deni /foxfive@gmail.com/* wrote: __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] K3 NR on SSB
The NR can do wonders... there were several QSOs I made that most likely would not have been possible without it. On the other hand, with a nearby LOUD station or splatter, it is very harsh to listen to. This may just be a fact of life, but am interested in any suggestions to improve it. Turning the gain and volume waaay down helped some. Some of the overdriven signals and splatter were downright ugly this weekend on 160. There were several stations where it was virtually impossible to copy anything within 3 Khz of their center frequency. I would have though they were running AM they were so wide. (no this isn't a negative comment on AM) Still I was hearing stuff others weren't and that was way cool! 73, Julius - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-NR-on-SSB-tp2444928p2444928.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 and NR
Suddenly lost my NR ability in my K3. Just getting N/A regardless which filters are in or if NB turned on/off. Using latest F/W 02.57 Any hints, someone, please. Len SM7BIC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
SV: [Elecraft] K3 and NR
.. And the answer is TURN on AGC before starting to ask, now it is working ok. 73 all SM7BIC -Ursprungligt meddelande- Fran: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lennart Michaelsson Skickat: den 27 oktober 2008 15:48 Till: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Amne: [Elecraft] K3 and NR Suddenly lost my NR ability in my K3. Just getting N/A regardless which filters are in or if NB turned on/off. Using latest F/W 02.57 Any hints, someone, please. Len SM7BIC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3: AFX, NR, 5 khz tuning, 9 Khz Tuning, AGC SLP, et. al
All of these discussions seem to point out that there is need for operator control and knowlege to properly operate the radio. For some users, the sun may rise and set on AM, but others are using the radio for moon bounce, 160 m CW contesting, transverter, etc. And when a feature is implimented just for operator convenience, it may well limit the radio in some other unanticipated mode of operation. Who knows what the spacing of SWBC signals will be in 10 years. Who knows what new modes of digital communications will exist in 10 years. Who knows how we will be using radios and the internet together in 10 years. I vote for giving the operator control rather than giving the software control. It is part of the adventure of the hobby to own a piece of gear that is complex enough that it is a challenge to us to squeeze out the last ounce of performance. I vote for having thousands of permutations and combinations of features at my control. Ken K5WK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AFX, NR, 5 khz tuning, 9 Khz Tuning, AGC SLP, et. al
I vote for giving the operator control rather than giving the software control. It is part of the adventure of the hobby to own a piece of gear that is complex enough that it is a challenge to us to squeeze out the last ounce of performance. I vote for having thousands of permutations and combinations of features at my control. Ken K5WK Abolutely! This is a important part of reasons why so many operators have choosed K3. They are no doors closed, this is my main feeling about HW and flexible FW developmnet. And there is communication and service which is out of any (my) previous experince. 73! L. -dst- K3/10 #727 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AFX, NR, 5 khz tuning, 9 Khz Tuning, AGC SLP, et. al
Kenneth Waites wrote: I vote for giving the operator control rather than giving the software control. It is part of the adventure of the hobby to own a piece of gear that is complex enough that it is a challenge to us to squeeze out the last ounce of performance. I vote for having thousands of permutations and combinations of features at my control. Having read the recent QST review of the Flex 5000 I can see that a lot of people agree with you. I, personally, don't. I prefer a piece of equipment or a software program that does its job extremely well but is simple to operate without a lot of configuration options. I, as the user, am willing to adapt to the program or equipment if necessary. This ultimate configurability has been the curse of Windows software development, and has resulted in bloatware like Microsoft Office that has so many options that I have often seen it cited that most users only know 20% of them. Some of the best software I ever used was DOS or early Windows software, and I could probably still do most of what I want to with it, if it was still possible to run it. In the same way, about the only thing wrong with the radios of 20 years ago was their performance, not their ergonomics. I do not want to see radios going the same way as computer software. Already we see on this reflector people asking if it is possible to do things the K3 can already do. Most people can't remember everything they read in the manual (even if they read it in the first place) and this is probably more true of radio hams than computer users in general since most of us are getting to the age when it isn't so easy to remember stuff. Now what was the point I was making...? :) - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3%3A-AFX%2C-NR%2C-5-khz-tuning%2C-9-Khz-Tuning%2C-AGC-SLP%2C-et.-al-tp18043288p18043723.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AFX, NR, 5 khz tuning, 9 Khz Tuning, AGC SLP, et. al
Julian, My cynicism is showing here, but I do believe that many people want all the 'bells and whistles' even if they will never use them. The result is that we end up with a radio or software that many complain about 'because it is too hard to use'. It is difficult to impossible for all but a certain few to learn and fully use all the functions of the K3 (or a complex software application), and only a very select few will ever have need of *all* the available functions. Fortunately, there are defaults that will work fine for the many many users who are only willing to put forth the effort required to utilize 10 or 20% of the total function - as has been stated about the MS Office users. It is to the credit of the developers that they have provided basic functions that many people can use to advantage. Using that other 80% of the total function requires in-depth study, and not all are willing to do that. - I know I don't, I have enough 'irons in the fire' that I am not willing to do that advanced study (and practice) until I really have a defined need for it. DOS and early Windows were quite straightforward and rigid in what could be done if one was using the command line and one had to have a good understanding of the internal workings to be able to fully use what those systems provided. In the meantime, specific applications made it easier for many users to interface with the computer - the operating system can be quite complex and difficult to learn, but the average user does not have to know its internal workings - they only need to know how to interface with the applications to do whatever work they need to have done. 73, Don W3FPR G4ILO wrote: Having read the recent QST review of the Flex 5000 I can see that a lot of people agree with you. I, personally, don't. I prefer a piece of equipment or a software program that does its job extremely well but is simple to operate without a lot of configuration options. I, as the user, am willing to adapt to the program or equipment if necessary. This ultimate configurability has been the curse of Windows software development, and has resulted in bloatware like Microsoft Office that has so many options that I have often seen it cited that most users only know 20% of them. Some of the best software I ever used was DOS or early Windows software, and I could probably still do most of what I want to with it, if it was still possible to run it. In the same way, about the only thing wrong with the radios of 20 years ago was their performance, not their ergonomics. I do not want to see radios going the same way as computer software. Already we see on this reflector people asking if it is possible to do things the K3 can already do. Most people can't remember everything they read in the manual (even if they read it in the first place) and this is probably more true of radio hams than computer users in general since most of us are getting to the age when it isn't so easy to remember stuff. Now what was the point I was making...? :) - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1510 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 3:21 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
