Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Keith Trinity WE6R]

Just some notes for future folks reading this.
I always replace D1 and Q6 together.
Other notes re Q6 and D1;
1. Poor RX on 24 and 28Mhz 12m 10M only and TX gain is OK. Q6 a 2N7002, 
OR D1  on the LPA can Suck the RX down on these two bands!!

2. Slow ramp up of TX power output. Typically worse on higher frequencies.
This can be D1 E560040 burnt (or bad solder joint) and/or bad Q6 E580026 
on LPA. (power ramps up starting very low).
3. If Q6 shorts, it can take out Q3 E580030. **REPLACE D1 *and* Q6 if 
the solder joint is bad!!!

Keith WE6R Elecraft K3/K4 Tech
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Christian Janssen DL1MGB]

Hi all,

just wanted to let you know that my K3 is back again with full output power.

We found the Diode D1 on the LPA board. On the anode side, it had shown full 
power, on the other side, nothing. When unsoldering it, it was already very 
loose. The diode itself was intact, but had no contact at all. Most probably it 
got loose after heating up and unsoldering itself. New diode soldered in, TUNE, 
smoke. After comparing some voltages around the diode, we found Q6 to be 
faulty. That's why more than the maximum rated current of 1A flowed through the 
diode. Changed also the transistor and now everything was working again, full 
power, no smoke, no smell.

Most probably, it has to do with the same problem as DK3WE already experienced 
8 years ago: http://www.the-mule.de/?p=1275#more-1275 

Many thanks again for DD0VS for helping me in finding the faulty parts!

73s Chris DL1MGB




Am 24.03.2021 um 21:03 schrieb Christian Janssen DL1MGB:
> Hello,
> 
> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
> 
> Following conditions:
> 
> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
> - Test mode off
> - TX INH off
> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
> - no output power also on external watt meter
> - happens on all bands
> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
> external watt meter
> 
> I am running out of ideas :-)
> 
> 73s Chris DL1MGB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Keith Trinity WE6R]

Chris;
Since you EE INIT-ed your radio, you MUST re-load a known-good saved 
configuration!

Or setup all options, filters etc and do the transmit gain calibrations.
An EE INIT reset blanks the radio and sets it to ONE filter, (a 2.7, 
with no offset, in slot 1).

Keith WE6R Elecraft K3/K4 Tech

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Christian Janssen DL1MGB]

Hello,

together with Harald DD0VS, we narrowed it down to the diode D1 on the LPA 
board. I will now order the diode and some probably affected parts around the 
diode and start replacing and testing again.

I will report again.

Many thanks to all others with giving different hints!

73s Chris DL1MGB



Am 24.03.2021 um 21:03 schrieb Christian Janssen DL1MGB:
> Hello,
> 
> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
> 
> Following conditions:
> 
> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
> - Test mode off
> - TX INH off
> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
> - no output power also on external watt meter
> - happens on all bands
> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
> external watt meter
> 
> I am running out of ideas :-)
> 
> 73s Chris DL1MGB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Jim Brown]

On 3/24/2021 9:28 PM, Christian Janssen DL1MGB wrote:

I don't have a spectrum analyzer, but I will look with my eyes if there is 
something noticeable.


A frequency counter can also be a useful RF probe for your own TX

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Christian Janssen DL1MGB]

CB1 is OK, voltage is available after the breaker.

7R standby: 6 V / TUNE: 0,2 V
7T standby: 0 V / TUNE: 6 V

73s Chris


Am 25.03.2021 um 06:45 schrieb Harald Fritzsche:
> Hello Chris, all,
> 
> According to your current consumption the 10w PA driver is working, but KPA3 
> gets no input or has not 12V.
> Check CB1 CKT BKR (KPA3 page 1 of 2 in K3 schematics) and check if TR-Switch 
> gets plausible voltages (KPA3 page 2 of 2, 7R and 7T).
> 
> Since there is no plausible idle current from KPA3 the CB1 seems to be 
> defect, most likely.
> Not sure if this can happen.
> Or give me a call, # sent separetly.
> Vy73
> Harald
> DD0VS
> 
> .-.-. --... ...-- -.. -.. - ...- ...
> 
>> Am 25.03.2021 um 05:35 schrieb Christian Janssen DL1MGB :
>>
>> I am not sure if there is a frequency shown when in TUNE mode. My memories 
>> tell me that the top line shows the SWR and the bottom line shows the power.
>>
>> 73s Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>> Am 24.03.2021 um 21:32 schrieb Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS):
>>> Hello Chris,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> strange is, that your Display does not show a frequency, but it should.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I had a water Intrusion in 2019 which causes several defects.
>>>
>>> I was testing along the Signal path to see the Signal (with RSP-spectrum 
>>> analyzer), that helped me, to find the defects. It tooks a while also with 
>>> help of the list here.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Receiving is working?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Vy73 & GL
>>>
>>> Harald
>>>
>>> DD0VS
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Gesendet von Mail  für 
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *Von: *Christian Janssen DL1MGB 
>>> *Gesendet: *Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 21:05
>>> *An: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>>> *Betreff: *[Elecraft] K3 - no output power
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
>>> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
>>> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Following conditions:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
>>>
>>> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
>>>
>>> - Test mode off
>>>
>>> - TX INH off
>>>
>>> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
>>>
>>> - no output power also on external watt meter
>>>
>>> - happens on all bands
>>>
>>> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
>>>
>>> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
>>>
>>> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
>>> external watt meter
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I am running out of ideas :-)
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> 73s Chris DL1MGB
>>>
>>> __
>>>
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Message delivered to dd...@gmx.de
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Harald Fritzsche]

Hello Chris, all,

According to your current consumption the 10w PA driver is working, but KPA3 
gets no input or has not 12V.
Check CB1 CKT BKR (KPA3 page 1 of 2 in K3 schematics) and check if TR-Switch 
gets plausible voltages (KPA3 page 2 of 2, 7R and 7T).

Since there is no plausible idle current from KPA3 the CB1 seems to be defect, 
most likely.
Not sure if this can happen.
Or give me a call, # sent separetly.
Vy73
Harald
DD0VS

.-.-. --... ...-- -.. -.. - ...- ...

> Am 25.03.2021 um 05:35 schrieb Christian Janssen DL1MGB :
> 
> I am not sure if there is a frequency shown when in TUNE mode. My memories 
> tell me that the top line shows the SWR and the bottom line shows the power.
> 
> 73s Chris
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 24.03.2021 um 21:32 schrieb Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS):
>> Hello Chris,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> strange is, that your Display does not show a frequency, but it should.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I had a water Intrusion in 2019 which causes several defects.
>> 
>> I was testing along the Signal path to see the Signal (with RSP-spectrum 
>> analyzer), that helped me, to find the defects. It tooks a while also with 
>> help of the list here.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Receiving is working?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Vy73 & GL
>> 
>> Harald
>> 
>> DD0VS
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gesendet von Mail  für 
>> Windows 10
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> *Von: *Christian Janssen DL1MGB 
>> *Gesendet: *Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 21:05
>> *An: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>> *Betreff: *[Elecraft] K3 - no output power
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
>> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
>> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Following conditions:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
>> 
>> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
>> 
>> - Test mode off
>> 
>> - TX INH off
>> 
>> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
>> 
>> - no output power also on external watt meter
>> 
>> - happens on all bands
>> 
>> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
>> 
>> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
>> 
>> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
>> external watt meter
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am running out of ideas :-)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 73s Chris DL1MGB
>> 
>> __
>> 
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> 
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> 
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> 
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> 
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> 
>> Message delivered to dd...@gmx.de
>> 
>>  
>> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Christian Janssen DL1MGB]

I am not sure if there is a frequency shown when in TUNE mode. My memories tell 
me that the top line shows the SWR and the bottom line shows the power.

73s Chris



Am 24.03.2021 um 21:32 schrieb Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS):
> Hello Chris,
> 
>  
> 
> strange is, that your Display does not show a frequency, but it should.
> 
>  
> 
> I had a water Intrusion in 2019 which causes several defects.
> 
> I was testing along the Signal path to see the Signal (with RSP-spectrum 
> analyzer), that helped me, to find the defects. It tooks a while also with 
> help of the list here.
> 
>  
> 
> Receiving is working?
> 
>  
> 
> Vy73 & GL
> 
> Harald
> 
> DD0VS
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Gesendet von Mail  für 
> Windows 10
> 
>  
> 
> *Von: *Christian Janssen DL1MGB 
> *Gesendet: *Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 21:05
> *An: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> *Betreff: *[Elecraft] K3 - no output power
> 
>  
> 
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
> 
>  
> 
> Following conditions:
> 
>  
> 
> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
> 
> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
> 
> - Test mode off
> 
> - TX INH off
> 
> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
> 
> - no output power also on external watt meter
> 
> - happens on all bands
> 
> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
> 
> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
> 
> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
> external watt meter
> 
>  
> 
> I am running out of ideas :-)
> 
>  
> 
> 73s Chris DL1MGB
> 
> __
> 
> Elecraft mailing list
> 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> 
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> 
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> 
>  
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> Message delivered to dd...@gmx.de
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Christian Janssen DL1MGB]

Update:

- reseted all TMP connectors
- already changed the pin headers at the KPA3 (had the 12V ERR some months 
ago), since then radio was good for some hundred QSOs
- no transverter available
- serial number is 1532
- K3 receives without any problems
- uploaded the newest firmware

No change.

I don't have a spectrum analyzer, but I will look with my eyes if there is 
something noticeable.

73s Chris DL1MGB


Am 25.03.2021 um 02:35 schrieb Ray:
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Harald
> 
> I think you need to start at Ground Zero,,
> 
> Go to your Elecraft Utility
> 
> And connect to the K3 Radio and verify
> 
> The Firmware is present (05.67 ect)
> 
> I would go to the Basic mode of operations.
> 
> Set K3 to SSB operation Upper or  Lower , Freq middle of band.
> 
> Set radio to PTT (not VOX) Ant 1, load to Ant 1.
> 
> Verify on K3 DVM , voltage is 13 volts.
> 
> Push Tune button (long for TX – with RF)
> 
> Adjust PWR knob Clockwise for Max RF power.
> 
> Take readings………. Ray WA6VAB  K3  
> 
>  
> 
> *From: *Christian Janssen DL1MGB <mailto:ch...@dl1mgb.com>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 24, 2021 1:49 PM
> *To: *Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS) <mailto:harald.fritzs...@dd0vs.de>; 
> elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Harald,
> 
>  
> 
> spectrum analyzer and more space on the table would be the best, but both not 
> available :-)
> 
>  
> 
> Additional information:
> 
> - internal voltage / current (DISP)
> 
>  
> 
> Standby: 13.8 V / 0.86 A
> 
> Tune: 13.4 V / 3.20 A
> 
>  
> 
> And still no power output on the external wattmeter.
> 
>  
> 
> It seems that there is something produced, but it doesn't exit the K3.
> 
>  
> 
> I also did an EE INIT, ut no change.
> 
>  
> 
> 73s Chris
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Am 24.03.2021 um 21:32 schrieb Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS):
> 
>> Hello Chris,
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> strange is, that your Display does not show a frequency, but it should.
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> I had a water Intrusion in 2019 which causes several defects.
> 
>>
> 
>> I was testing along the Signal path to see the Signal (with RSP-spectrum 
>> analyzer), that helped me, to find the defects. It tooks a while also with 
>> help of the list here.
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> Receiving is working?
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> Vy73 & GL
> 
>>
> 
>> Harald
> 
>>
> 
>> DD0VS
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> Gesendet von Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für 
>> Windows 10
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> *Von: *Christian Janssen DL1MGB <mailto:ch...@dl1mgb.com>
> 
>> *Gesendet: *Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 21:05
> 
>> *An: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> 
>> *Betreff: *[Elecraft] K3 - no output power
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> Hello,
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
>> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
>> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> Following conditions:
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
> 
>>
> 
>> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
> 
>>
> 
>> - Test mode off
> 
>>
> 
>> - TX INH off
> 
>>
> 
>> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
> 
>>
> 
>> - no output power also on external watt meter
> 
>>
> 
>> - happens on all bands
> 
>>
> 
>> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
> 
>>
> 
>> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
> 
>>
> 
>> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
>> external watt meter
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> I am running out of ideas :-)
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> 73s Chris DL1MGB
> 
>>
> 
>> __
> 
>>
> 
>> Elecraft mailing list
> 
>>
> 
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> 
>>
> 
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> 
>>
> 
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> 
>>
> 
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
>>
> 
>> Message delivered to dd...@gmx.de
> 
>>
> 
>>  
> 
>>
> 
> __
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> 
>  
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Ray]

Harald
I think you need to start at Ground Zero,,
Go to your Elecraft Utility
And connect to the K3 Radio and verify
The Firmware is present (05.67 ect)
I would go to the Basic mode of operations.
Set K3 to SSB operation Upper or  Lower , Freq middle of band. 
Set radio to PTT (not VOX) Ant 1, load to Ant 1.
Verify on K3 DVM , voltage is 13 volts.
Push Tune button (long for TX – with RF)
Adjust PWR knob Clockwise for Max RF power.
Take readings………. Ray WA6VAB  K3  

From: Christian Janssen DL1MGB
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 1:49 PM
To: Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS); elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

Hi Harald,

spectrum analyzer and more space on the table would be the best, but both not 
available :-)

Additional information:
- internal voltage / current (DISP)
  
Standby: 13.8 V / 0.86 A
Tune: 13.4 V / 3.20 A

And still no power output on the external wattmeter.

It seems that there is something produced, but it doesn't exit the K3.

I also did an EE INIT, ut no change.

73s Chris



Am 24.03.2021 um 21:32 schrieb Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS):
> Hello Chris,
> 
>  
> 
> strange is, that your Display does not show a frequency, but it should.
> 
>  
> 
> I had a water Intrusion in 2019 which causes several defects.
> 
> I was testing along the Signal path to see the Signal (with RSP-spectrum 
> analyzer), that helped me, to find the defects. It tooks a while also with 
> help of the list here.
> 
>  
> 
> Receiving is working?
> 
>  
> 
> Vy73 & GL
> 
> Harald
> 
> DD0VS
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Gesendet von Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für 
> Windows 10
> 
>  
> 
> *Von: *Christian Janssen DL1MGB <mailto:ch...@dl1mgb.com>
> *Gesendet: *Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 21:05
> *An: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> *Betreff: *[Elecraft] K3 - no output power
> 
>  
> 
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
> 
>  
> 
> Following conditions:
> 
>  
> 
> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
> 
> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
> 
> - Test mode off
> 
> - TX INH off
> 
> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
> 
> - no output power also on external watt meter
> 
> - happens on all bands
> 
> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
> 
> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
> 
> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
> external watt meter
> 
>  
> 
> I am running out of ideas :-)
> 
>  
> 
> 73s Chris DL1MGB
> 
> __
> 
> Elecraft mailing list
> 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> 
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>  
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> Message delivered to dd...@gmx.de
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Wes]

Does it receive?

Wes  N7WS

On 3/24/2021 1:03 PM, Christian Janssen DL1MGB wrote:

Hello,

it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg

Following conditions:

- sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
- no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
- Test mode off
- TX INH off
- all driver transistors working (three screw test)
- no output power also on external watt meter
- happens on all bands
- happens with KPA set to "not inst"
- knocking on housing doesn't change anything
- when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
external watt meter

I am running out of ideas :-)

73s Chris DL1MGB


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - no output power

[Christian Janssen DL1MGB]

Hi Harald,

spectrum analyzer and more space on the table would be the best, but both not 
available :-)

Additional information:
- internal voltage / current (DISP)
  
Standby: 13.8 V / 0.86 A
Tune: 13.4 V / 3.20 A

And still no power output on the external wattmeter.

It seems that there is something produced, but it doesn't exit the K3.

I also did an EE INIT, ut no change.

73s Chris



Am 24.03.2021 um 21:32 schrieb Harald Fritzsche (DD0VS):
> Hello Chris,
> 
>  
> 
> strange is, that your Display does not show a frequency, but it should.
> 
>  
> 
> I had a water Intrusion in 2019 which causes several defects.
> 
> I was testing along the Signal path to see the Signal (with RSP-spectrum 
> analyzer), that helped me, to find the defects. It tooks a while also with 
> help of the list here.
> 
>  
> 
> Receiving is working?
> 
>  
> 
> Vy73 & GL
> 
> Harald
> 
> DD0VS
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Gesendet von Mail  für 
> Windows 10
> 
>  
> 
> *Von: *Christian Janssen DL1MGB 
> *Gesendet: *Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 21:05
> *An: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> *Betreff: *[Elecraft] K3 - no output power
> 
>  
> 
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> it happened during the Russian DX Contest last Saturday, from one second to 
> another. No output. When I tune the display looks like this: 
> http://dl1mgb.com/temp/k3_no_power.jpg
> 
>  
> 
> Following conditions:
> 
>  
> 
> - sending into a 50 ohm dummy load
> 
> - no matter how many watts are set with PWR knob
> 
> - Test mode off
> 
> - TX INH off
> 
> - all driver transistors working (three screw test)
> 
> - no output power also on external watt meter
> 
> - happens on all bands
> 
> - happens with KPA set to "not inst"
> 
> - knocking on housing doesn't change anything
> 
> - when starting the antenna tuner, it says 5.0 watts, but no output on the 
> external watt meter
> 
>  
> 
> I am running out of ideas :-)
> 
>  
> 
> 73s Chris DL1MGB
> 
> __
> 
> Elecraft mailing list
> 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> 
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> 
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>  
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> Message delivered to dd...@gmx.de
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15

[K9MA]

Yes to all.  There's no question that something has changed within the 
K3.  15 was always marginal, with higher current at 100W than the other 
bands, but now the maximum current on 15 is lower than it used to be, 
which makes me suspect the LPA module.  When I recently did a new TxGain 
calibration, 15 did not change much, (HP 12 to 19), but 24 MHz did (HP 
08 to 46). LP calibrations changed by similar amounts.  However, output 
on 24 MHz is normal, as is the current.  The calibration did not change 
output or current on 15.


73,

Scott  K9MA


On 11/13/2016 22:37, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
Did you do a re-calibration?  Is this output confirmed on a external 
meter?  Do the K3 and external meters agree is what I am asking.


Is there some way you are getting rf back into the rig just in 15m?

Does it do this on a dummy load?

Have you taken the K3 completely out of line, no computer, no amp, no 
tuners etc?



On 11/12/2016 7:01 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:

Issue not seen on mine. Had it since January 2007 so maybe you have an
issue?
Gary

On Nov 13, 2016 11:59, "WILLIE BABER"  wrote:

My 2014 purchased K3 is 20-25 watts low on 14mhz but all other bands 
are
good.  just haven't worried about it as I normally use 50 watts 
or less
to drive an amplifier.  I'll look into it after ARRL DX CW in 
February, so

long as it doesn't get worse.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 11/12/16, K9MA  wrote:

  Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15
  To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Date: Saturday, November 12, 2016, 3:37 PM

  The output of my K3 (SN 4657) has
  suddenly dropped 10-15 W on 15 meters,
  from about 100 W to 85-90.  The other bands haven't
  changed, nor has the
  supply voltage (13.6 V at full power). Restoring to a
  previous
  configuration does not help.  I had a similar problem
  early on, also on
  15, and had to ship the K3 back to Elecraft, who replaced
  the 10 W
  module, but not the KPA3.  15 seems to be a problematic
  band.  Has
  anyone else seen a problem like this?

  73,

  Scott  K9MA

  --
  Scott  K9MA

  k...@sdellington.us


__



--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Did you do a re-calibration?  Is this output confirmed on a external 
meter?  Do the K3 and external meters agree is what I am asking.


Is there some way you are getting rf back into the rig just in 15m?

Does it do this on a dummy load?

Have you taken the K3 completely out of line, no computer, no amp, no 
tuners etc?



On 11/12/2016 7:01 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:

Issue not seen on mine. Had it since January 2007 so maybe you have an
issue?
Gary

On Nov 13, 2016 11:59, "WILLIE BABER"  wrote:


My 2014 purchased K3 is 20-25 watts low on 14mhz but all other bands are
good.  just haven't worried about it as I normally use 50 watts or less
to drive an amplifier.  I'll look into it after ARRL DX CW in February, so
long as it doesn't get worse.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 11/12/16, K9MA  wrote:

  Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15
  To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Date: Saturday, November 12, 2016, 3:37 PM

  The output of my K3 (SN 4657) has
  suddenly dropped 10-15 W on 15 meters,
  from about 100 W to 85-90.  The other bands haven't
  changed, nor has the
  supply voltage (13.6 V at full power). Restoring to a
  previous
  configuration does not help.  I had a similar problem
  early on, also on
  15, and had to ship the K3 back to Elecraft, who replaced
  the 10 W
  module, but not the KPA3.  15 seems to be a problematic
  band.  Has
  anyone else seen a problem like this?

  73,

  Scott  K9MA

  --
  Scott  K9MA

  k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15

[Gary Gregory]

Issue not seen on mine. Had it since January 2007 so maybe you have an
issue?
Gary

On Nov 13, 2016 11:59, "WILLIE BABER"  wrote:

> My 2014 purchased K3 is 20-25 watts low on 14mhz but all other bands are
> good.  just haven't worried about it as I normally use 50 watts or less
> to drive an amplifier.  I'll look into it after ARRL DX CW in February, so
> long as it doesn't get worse.
>
> 73, Will, wj9b
>
> CWops #1085
> CWA Advisor levels II and III
> http://cwops.org/
>
> 
> On Sat, 11/12/16, K9MA  wrote:
>
>  Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15
>  To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>  Date: Saturday, November 12, 2016, 3:37 PM
>
>  The output of my K3 (SN 4657) has
>  suddenly dropped 10-15 W on 15 meters,
>  from about 100 W to 85-90.  The other bands haven't
>  changed, nor has the
>  supply voltage (13.6 V at full power). Restoring to a
>  previous
>  configuration does not help.  I had a similar problem
>  early on, also on
>  15, and had to ship the K3 back to Elecraft, who replaced
>  the 10 W
>  module, but not the KPA3.  15 seems to be a problematic
>  band.  Has
>  anyone else seen a problem like this?
>
>  73,
>
>  Scott  K9MA
>
>  --
>  Scott  K9MA
>
>  k...@sdellington.us
>
>  __
>  Elecraft mailing list
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15

[WILLIE BABER]

My 2014 purchased K3 is 20-25 watts low on 14mhz but all other bands are good.  
just haven't worried about it as I normally use 50 watts or less to drive 
an amplifier.  I'll look into it after ARRL DX CW in February, so long as it 
doesn't get worse.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Sat, 11/12/16, K9MA  wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Low Output on 15
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Saturday, November 12, 2016, 3:37 PM
 
 The output of my K3 (SN 4657) has
 suddenly dropped 10-15 W on 15 meters, 
 from about 100 W to 85-90.  The other bands haven't
 changed, nor has the 
 supply voltage (13.6 V at full power). Restoring to a
 previous 
 configuration does not help.  I had a similar problem
 early on, also on 
 15, and had to ship the K3 back to Elecraft, who replaced
 the 10 W 
 module, but not the KPA3.  15 seems to be a problematic
 band.  Has 
 anyone else seen a problem like this?
 
 73,
 
 Scott  K9MA
 
 -- 
 Scott  K9MA
 
 k...@sdellington.us
 
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Re: [Elecraft] (K3) Low output power on 15 meters (new KYSN related ?)

[Ken K3IU]

I have the same thing here, Bruce. Something in firmware was 
changed a while ago and when I reported it to Wayne, he said 
that it is within specs.

73, Ken K3IU
~~~
On 1/9/2016 11:09 AM, Bruce Meier wrote:

Today I noticed that the output power on 15 meters does not reach 100w.  The
max, according to the front panel meter reading, is 93w.  So, I ran the
transmitter gain calibration and it did not help. I decreased the power to
90w and it reached 90w, so I gradually increased the power and it is fine up
to 93w.  When set to 94w and above the max output is 93w.  I checked all
other bands and with the exception of 17 meters they are fine. The same low
power output occurs on 17 meters.

I then tried my other K3 going through the exact same testing order and
received the exact same results. They are both the exact same configuration.

Specifics:

- testing into both a dummy load (2 different ones) and 3 different 15 meter
antennas
- both K3 rigs are running latest firmware (5.38 / 2.86 / 2.86 / 1.25)
- The power supply voltage at the rigs is 13.8 and drops to around 13.0 when
in transmit
- Reran the Transmitter Gain Calib - no help.

NOTE: The new KSYN3As were just installed in both rigs including the second
RX (2 weeks ago)

Suggestions?

73,
Bruce-N1LN


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Re: [Elecraft] (K3) Low output power on 15 meters (new KYSN related ?)

[Wayne Burdick]

This has nothing to do with the new synth. We're hoping to have another 
firmware release dealing with it soon. I've been working on other issues.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



On Jan 9, 2016, at 8:09 AM, "Bruce Meier"  wrote:

> Today I noticed that the output power on 15 meters does not reach 100w….


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Re: [Elecraft] (K3) Low output power on 15 meters (new KYSN related ?)

[Vic Rosenthal]

I noted a similar issue and found that increasing the power supply voltage a 
bit returned full output. I think I have about 14.2v at the rig in receive 
mode. This was before I updated the synths so I don't think it's related to 
that.

Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO

> On 9 Jan 2016, at 6:09 PM, Bruce Meier  wrote:
> 
> Today I noticed that the output power on 15 meters does not reach 100w.  The
> max, according to the front panel meter reading, is 93w.  So, I ran the
> transmitter gain calibration and it did not help. I decreased the power to
> 90w and it reached 90w, so I gradually increased the power and it is fine up
> to 93w.  When set to 94w and above the max output is 93w.  I checked all
> other bands and with the exception of 17 meters they are fine. The same low
> power output occurs on 17 meters.
> 
> I then tried my other K3 going through the exact same testing order and
> received the exact same results. They are both the exact same configuration.
> 
> Specifics:
> 
> - testing into both a dummy load (2 different ones) and 3 different 15 meter
> antennas
> - both K3 rigs are running latest firmware (5.38 / 2.86 / 2.86 / 1.25)
> - The power supply voltage at the rigs is 13.8 and drops to around 13.0 when
> in transmit
> - Reran the Transmitter Gain Calib - no help.
> 
> NOTE: The new KSYN3As were just installed in both rigs including the second
> RX (2 weeks ago)
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> 73,
> Bruce-N1LN
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] (K3) Low output power on 15 meters (new KYSN related ?)

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I suppose "spec" would be about 1 dB or so.   If so, then somewhere 
between 80 and 125 watts would be about right for a nominal 100 watt 
radio.  I, however, didn't see and published spec for transmitter power 
in my K3S manual.


73
Bob, K4TAX

On 1/9/2016 10:27 AM, Ken K3IU wrote:
I have the same thing here, Bruce. Something in firmware was changed a 
while ago and when I reported it to Wayne, he said that it is within specs



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Dropoff

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks for this, Jim.  My radio is Serial # 4275.  I don't know if it 
had the gold-plated contacts.  Will call Elecraft and ask.


73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 11/29/2015 2:55 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

Do you have the mod in that installs the gold plated contacts on the KPA
module?  My sn is 14xx so I had my K3 several years before I started
experiencing the problem. It started with unexplained problems and called
Support.  The fellow listened to my whole story and then told me that was
classic for the contact problem and he would send me the kit.  He also told
me that he knew the problem as soon as I started with my description of the
problem.  I don't think there was a charge but if so, it was insignificant.

73, Jim KG0KP

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Pete
Smith N4ZR
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 11:24 AM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Dropoff

Well, it happened again. My K3 is now only putting out 35 watts on 80,
30 watts on 40, 49 watts on 20, 84 on 15 and 100 on 10M, although the power
control reads 100 watts on all bands and the SWR is very low, so it is not a
question of foldback due to mismatch.  Once before, when it did this,
powering the radio off and back on restored proper operation, but not now.
Any suggestions?



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

In the Notes Here: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm


Those loading rev. 5.10 (or later) for the first time must re-do the 50-Watt 
gain calibration step on all bands.Once this has been done, there is no need to 
do it when loading future firmware releases.

  From: David Inger ingerassocia...@cox.net
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 6:53 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update
   
I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I am about to order the new 
synth board.  When I restarted the radio after the upload, the following 
problem occurred:

When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows about 8 watts of power.  
If I turn the power control up, the display defaults back to 8 watts.  
In the config menu I have the tune power set to 20 watts.

I reloaded the firmware to make sure there wasn't a glitch in the 
loading.  The same problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to change the TX ALC (in the 
config menu) to OFF  When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get 
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that I do not have a 
component failure problem.

Has anyone experienced this or know of any settings which I may have 
inadvertently changed?

73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Phil Wheeler]

Sorry. See the F/W 5.10 documentation :-)

Phil W7OX

On 2/28/15 3:53 PM, David Inger wrote:
I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I 
am about to order the new synth board.  When I 
restarted the radio after the upload, the 
following problem occurred:


When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows 
about 8 watts of power.  If I turn the power 
control up, the display defaults back to 8 
watts.  In the config menu I have the tune power 
set to 20 watts.


I reloaded the firmware to make sure there 
wasn't a glitch in the loading.  The same 
problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to 
change the TX ALC (in the config menu) to OFF  
When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get 
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that 
I do not have a component failure problem.


Has anyone experienced this or know of any 
settings which I may have inadvertently changed?


73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Phil Wheeler]

You need to re-do the power calibration using the 
K3 Utility. See the document for the Synth board.


Phil W7OX

On 2/28/15 3:53 PM, David Inger wrote:
I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I 
am about to order the new synth board.  When I 
restarted the radio after the upload, the 
following problem occurred:


When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows 
about 8 watts of power.  If I turn the power 
control up, the display defaults back to 8 
watts.  In the config menu I have the tune power 
set to 20 watts.


I reloaded the firmware to make sure there 
wasn't a glitch in the loading.  The same 
problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to 
change the TX ALC (in the config menu) to OFF  
When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get 
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that 
I do not have a component failure problem.


Has anyone experienced this or know of any 
settings which I may have inadvertently changed?


73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 Has anyone experienced this or know of any settings which I may have
 inadvertently changed?

Yes, the instructions for 5.10 and later state that the TX CAL must be
performed after loading 5.10, 5.12 or 5.13 (and presumably later).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-02-28 6:53 PM, David Inger wrote:

I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I am about to order the new
synth board.  When I restarted the radio after the upload, the following
problem occurred:

When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows about 8 watts of power. If
I turn the power control up, the display defaults back to 8 watts. In
the config menu I have the tune power set to 20 watts.

I reloaded the firmware to make sure there wasn't a glitch in the
loading.  The same problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to change the TX ALC (in the
config menu) to OFF  When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that I do not have a
component failure problem.

Has anyone experienced this or know of any settings which I may have
inadvertently changed?

73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issues

[David Inger]

Wow,  talk about instant messaging!  I received a number of responses
pointing out the fact that I need to do the K3 power calibration after
installation 5.10.  I am so bad for not reading the fine print.
 
Thanks folks for all your help!
 
73 de K6SBA
David
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issues

[Phil Wheeler]

You weren't the first to miss it, David -- and you 
won't be the last!


Phil W7OX

On 2/28/15 4:10 PM, David Inger wrote:

Wow,  talk about instant messaging!  I received a number of responses
pointing out the fact that I need to do the K3 power calibration after
installation 5.10.  I am so bad for not reading the fine print.
  
Thanks folks for all your help!
  
73 de K6SBA

David


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Low output 30m

[Wayne Burdick]

Sounds like the 30-meter band-pass filter trimmers need to be readjusted.

Wayne
N6KR


On Jan 20, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Roger D Johnson n...@roadrunner.com wrote:

 My K3 has always had low output on 30m (ca 90 watts). I checked the TXG 
 (transmit gain)
 figures and 40m is 64, 30m is 103 and 20m is 30. The K3 uses the same lowpass 
 filter on
 30 and 40m. Is it possible mine rolls off too quickly at the low end?
 
 73, Roger N1RJ
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Low output 30m

[Roger D Johnson]

I meant to say same filter on 30 and 20m.

On 1/20/2015 3:49 PM, Roger D Johnson wrote:

My K3 has always had low output on 30m (ca 90 watts). I checked the TXG
(transmit gain)
figures and 40m is 64, 30m is 103 and 20m is 30. The K3 uses the same lowpass
filter on
30 and 40m. Is it possible mine rolls off too quickly at the low end?

73, Roger N1RJ

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC Output

[Ian White]

Actually, the hardest part of installing that change is removing the
KPA3.  Once that is accomplished, the rest of the mod is easy - as Vic
said, it is a matter of changing two components.

73,
Don W3FPR

It isn't necessary to remove the KPA3 at all. A $5 pair of long-reach
surgical forceps or hemostats will do the job without unnecessary
disturbance to major organs. 

Remove only the rear fan panel, and then it's easy to reach down behind
the KPA3 using the hemostats to remove RFC48 and F2.  Lightly clip the
hemostats onto the component and then unsolder from underneath. After
clearing the holes of solder, use the hemostats again to insert each new
component from above. Easy!

Hemostats are readily available as craft tools on eBay for only a few
$/£/EUR, and the 6-inch straight pattern is probably the first one to
buy. 


73 from Ian GM3SEK


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC Output

[Bill Adams]

The mod kit has a label for the higher current capacity that is used to cover 
the original one on the K3.  I'm guessing new K3s are labeled correctly with 
the higher available current. 

Bill AF4B

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com
Sent: ‎12/‎22/‎2014 2:17 PM
To: Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC Output

Ted,

Yes, K3s manufactured after the mod came out do have the 1 amp output 
rating starting with SN 6588.
The Owner's Manual itself has not been updated, but Errata Rev D10-5 
dated June 9, 2014 states the places where the manual should be manually 
updated.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/22/2014 11:55 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
 According to the Manual the K3¹s DC output socket is limited to 0.5 amps,
 which I understand means it can power a P3 alone but not both a P3 and a
 PR6-10, nor a P3 with the VGA accessory.  I looked through the on-line
 manual for the mod kit this morning - it looks like major surgery.  Did
 Elecraft incorporate the mod in K3¹s shipped after the mod came out in
 2012?  My K3 is S/N 7562.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC Output

[Don Wilhelm]

Ted,

Yes, K3s manufactured after the mod came out do have the 1 amp output 
rating starting with SN 6588.
The Owner's Manual itself has not been updated, but Errata Rev D10-5 
dated June 9, 2014 states the places where the manual should be manually 
updated.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/22/2014 11:55 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

According to the Manual the K3¹s DC output socket is limited to 0.5 amps,
which I understand means it can power a P3 alone but not both a P3 and a
PR6-10, nor a P3 with the VGA accessory.  I looked through the on-line
manual for the mod kit this morning - it looks like major surgery.  Did
Elecraft incorporate the mod in K3¹s shipped after the mod came out in
2012?  My K3 is S/N 7562.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC Output

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

Even if you had an older K3, it's very minor surgery. It's been some 
time since I modified my K3 (serial no. 7) but I think it involved 
the replacement of two components.


On 22 Dec 2014 18:55, Dauer, Edward wrote:

According to the Manual the K3¹s DC output socket is limited to 0.5 amps,
which I understand means it can power a P3 alone but not both a P3 and a
PR6-10, nor a P3 with the VGA accessory.  I looked through the on-line
manual for the mod kit this morning - it looks like major surgery.  Did
Elecraft incorporate the mod in K3¹s shipped after the mod came out in
2012?  My K3 is S/N 7562.

Tnx,

Ted, KN1CBR


--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC Output

[Don Wilhelm]

Actually, the hardest part of installing that change is removing the 
KPA3.  Once that is accomplished, the rest of the mod is easy - as Vic 
said, it is a matter of changing two components.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/22/2014 3:40 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
Even if you had an older K3, it's very minor surgery. It's been some 
time since I modified my K3 (serial no. 7) but I think it involved 
the replacement of two components.


On 22 Dec 2014 18:55, Dauer, Edward wrote:
According to the Manual the K3¹s DC output socket is limited to 0.5 
amps,

which I understand means it can power a P3 alone but not both a P3 and a
PR6-10, nor a P3 with the VGA accessory.  I looked through the on-line
manual for the mod kit this morning - it looks like major surgery.  Did
Elecraft incorporate the mod in K3¹s shipped after the mod came out in
2012?  My K3 is S/N 7562.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Buffered output.

[Don Wilhelm]

Clive,

The K3 IF output is indeed buffered.
However, you may need a preamp in front of the Softrock which will also 
provide reduced chance that the Softrock oscillator will be fed back 
into the K3 IF.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/9/2014 8:53 AM, Clive Lorton wrote:

Hi,
Is the IF output (which I believe is already buffered) on my K3 sn 8K+ 
suitable to use with a Softrock or should I use an external amp.

Many thanks Clive G8POC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RF Output Level Variation

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

You would be better off not touching the power knob once it is set for 
your desired power.


Unlike most other transceivers, the K2 and K3 control power output using 
a closed control loop.
The setting on the power knob is compared to the power output (as 
measured by the wattmeter) and changes the drive to make them equal.
The power should start out slightly less than that requested by the 
power knob and build to the set value.
The control loop operating point is reset after changing the power knob, 
a band change or at power on.
Every time you move the power knob, it is reset and the control point 
must be re-established.
It takes a couple dit times to come up to the full requested power at 
normal keying speeds.


Yes, you may benefit from a wattmeter calibration if your requested 
power is different than your measured output power.  You might also want 
to investigate the accuracy of your external wattmeter.  Many are not 
accurate at the 5 watt level - that is particularly true of analog 
meters which typically specify power as a percentage of full scale.  on 
a 20 watt scale, even 5% accuracy will be an error of 1 watt, and that 
error applies to any point on the scale.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/17/2014 12:17 AM, Dave Barr wrote:
K3-100 sn 7901 is working great;  I am still in the learning cycle, 
but I have noticed an interesting and slightly disturbing  thing about 
the rf output levels.


During measurement with an external (HP) power meter, the power output 
increases rapidly for about 10 seconds and then slows and eventually 
settles, with small variations from every few seconds afterwards.  For 
example, to achieve a 5 watt reading on the power meter, the initial 
setting on the K3 is 4.3, and within 10 seconds must be reduced to 3.9 
to maintain 5 watts output.  (Watt meter calibration has not yet been 
performed.) This occurs to similar extents at all power levels, i.e., 
to maintain an even power level, the K3 setting must be reduced over 
the first 10 seconds or so.   My K2 does much the same thing.  Is 
there an explanation for this behavior?


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 : Unstable output power in DATA A mode

[Keith Onishi]

Don, San,

Many thanks for your detailed advices.
I have set up as you advised. Output in DATA A mode became stable with 
occasional glitch.
I think I need to find the best setting for my system.

Thanks again for your excellent advices.

73 de JH3SIF, Keith

2014/01/31 6:27、Sam Morgan k5oai@gmail.com のメール：

 then using the K3 in DATA A mode
 this often is caused by incorrect audio levels
 
 the k3's audio level should show 4 bars with the 5th bar flickering
 I have run my K3 with the 5th bar solid and it still worked ok
 
 the power out level is set by the K3's PWR knob
 
 most other rigs have a different way of setting this up
 doing it 'their way' on a K3 results with the varying power levels you are 
 seeing
 
 On 1/30/2014 2:37 PM, Keith Onishi wrote:
 Output power of my K3/100, SN 79xx, without KAT3 is very unstable in DATA A 
 mode. The symptom is;
 
 1. With setting 100W output on 14MHz and 10MHz, I get 100W output for a 
 couple of seconds, then suddenly the output goes down to 10W or so.
 2. On 7MHz and below, the output power never go up to 100W with setting 100W 
 output.
 3. With setting around 20W output, actual output sometimes stay around 10W. 
 Upon holding TUNE button a couple of seconds, the output goes up to desired 
 level.
 
 I guessed this might be caused by RF interfere. However, checking with dummy 
 road gave the same results.
 
 These happen only in DATA A mode (I have not tried in AFSK A mode).
 I got stable 100W and a little up in FSK D and PSK D as well as CW. (I have 
 not tried SSB yet.)
 
 I manually made Transmitter Gain calibration without error since K3Utility 
 calibration capability does not work with K3 with 60m disabled for Japan use.
 
 Any thought on this problem?
 
 73 de JH3SIF, Keith
 
 -- 
 GB  73
 K5OAI
 Sam Morgan

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 : Unstable output power in DATA A mode

[Don Wilhelm]

Keith,

Have you adjusted your audio input to produce 4 bars solid on the ALC 
meter with the 5th bar flashing?
If not, please do so - you can do that with the K3 in TX TEST mode so no 
signal is transmitted.


After you set the audio level correctly, then adjust the power knob to 
the desired power level.
I know this is different than the normal way other transceivers are 
driven for data modes, but the K3 controls power differently than other 
transceivers and the audio level must first be set as indicated and the 
power controlled with the power knob.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/30/2014 3:37 PM, Keith Onishi wrote:

Output power of my K3/100, SN 79xx, without KAT3 is very unstable in DATA A 
mode. The symptom is;

1. With setting 100W output on 14MHz and 10MHz, I get 100W output for a couple 
of seconds, then suddenly the output goes down to 10W or so.
2. On 7MHz and below, the output power never go up to 100W with setting 100W 
output.
3. With setting around 20W output, actual output sometimes stay around 10W. 
Upon holding TUNE button a couple of seconds, the output goes up to desired 
level.

I guessed this might be caused by RF interfere. However, checking with dummy 
road gave the same results.

These happen only in DATA A mode (I have not tried in AFSK A mode).
I got stable 100W and a little up in FSK D and PSK D as well as CW. (I have not 
tried SSB yet.)

I manually made Transmitter Gain calibration without error since K3Utility 
calibration capability does not work with K3 with 60m disabled for Japan use.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 : Unstable output power in DATA A mode

[Sam Morgan]

then using the K3 in DATA A mode
this often is caused by incorrect audio levels

the k3's audio level should show 4 bars with the 5th bar flickering
I have run my K3 with the 5th bar solid and it still worked ok

the power out level is set by the K3's PWR knob

most other rigs have a different way of setting this up
doing it 'their way' on a K3 results with the varying power levels you 
are seeing


On 1/30/2014 2:37 PM, Keith Onishi wrote:

Output power of my K3/100, SN 79xx, without KAT3 is very unstable in DATA A 
mode. The symptom is;

1. With setting 100W output on 14MHz and 10MHz, I get 100W output for a couple 
of seconds, then suddenly the output goes down to 10W or so.
2. On 7MHz and below, the output power never go up to 100W with setting 100W 
output.
3. With setting around 20W output, actual output sometimes stay around 10W. 
Upon holding TUNE button a couple of seconds, the output goes up to desired 
level.

I guessed this might be caused by RF interfere. However, checking with dummy 
road gave the same results.

These happen only in DATA A mode (I have not tried in AFSK A mode).
I got stable 100W and a little up in FSK D and PSK D as well as CW. (I have not 
tried SSB yet.)

I manually made Transmitter Gain calibration without error since K3Utility 
calibration capability does not work with K3 with 60m disabled for Japan use.

Any thought on this problem?

73 de JH3SIF, Keith


--
GB  73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Low output 160/80m

[bill conkling]

Start with K3_support at Elecraft.

...bill nr4c

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Allan G Duncan allan.dun...@allanduncan.co.uk wrote:

I recently acquired a used K3 from a silent key with a large number of
options fitted. I already own another K3.

 

I have stripped it down to be a K3/10 to simplify fault finding. The only
option fitted now is a KXV3 interface. I fitted the bypass link in place of
the KPA3. All tests are done with a high quality 50 ohm load.

 

There is no RF output on 160m and only about 4-6W on 80m (It varies in
level, presumably with ALC action). The other bands are all fine on both RX
and TX. Receive on all bands (including 160/80) measures OK using my XG3 as
a test signal. Using a 50MHz scope around the BPF area does not show and
obvious fault with the K3 in TX mode with a cw carrier. The RF power output
control works as expected on all bands except 160 and 80.

 

The TX Gain calibration routine in the K3 Utility fails immediately as the
first band it tries is 160m.

 

I'd welcome any comments before I start swapping boards between my two K3's 

 

73

 

Allan

GM4ZUK

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Lee Trout]

I've mentioned this before, but several seemingly inexplicable problems I
have had with my K3 have been solved by simply doing a Parameter
Initialization (see manual.)  Just be sure to save your configuration
first.  May not help, but doesn't take long so always worth a try.  One
caveat, that Don Wilhelm pointed out to me:

*Ideally, that saved configuration file should be one that was obtained
before the problem came up. If a configuration file is generated right
before the EEINIT [**Parameter Initialization], the same problem may be
re-loaded afterwards.

73, Lee (K9CM)


*
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Don Wilhelm]

Arliss,

I would suggest that you run the Transmit Gain Calibration and see if 
that improves the situation.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2013 9:10 PM, Arliss wrote:
I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output from my 
K3/100.  No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been a few days), 
so I thought I'd try here.


The problem is that at relatively low power output levels 
(approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not remain 
constant.   If I engage TUNE, the power will vary plus/minus 3 or 4 
watts, then jump up briefly by as much as 10 watts or more before 
resuming smaller excursions.  Although the power variations are brief, 
they cause the grid protection circuit in the amp to trip.  This 
behavior seems to be independent of mode and frequency.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Don Wilhelm]

Arliss,

If you do not have the latest firmware loaded along with the latest K3 
Utility, please load the latest and try again.  If it continues to fail, 
contact k3supp...@elecraft.com.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2013 11:12 PM, Arliss wrote:
Running the low and high power TX gain calibration via the K3 Utility 
gave the following result:


TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to 
a consistent value.  5W calibration failed.


TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to 
a consistent value.  50 W calibration failed.


The low power calibration failed on 40 meters and stopped there.  The 
50 W calibration failed on 160 meters and stopped there.


The radio also gave an error message: ERR TXG (Transmit gain constant 
out of range).


73,  Arliss



Arliss,

I would suggest that you run the Transmit Gain Calibration and see if 
that improves the situation.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2013 9:10 PM, Arliss wrote:
I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output from my 
K3/100.  No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been a few days), 
so I thought I'd try here.


 The problem is that at relatively low power output levels
(approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not remain 
constant.   If I engage TUNE, the power will vary plus/minus 3 or 4 
watts, then jump up briefly by as much as 10 watts or more before 
resuming smaller excursions.  Although the power variations are 
brief, they cause the grid protection circuit in the amp to trip.  
This behavior seems to be independent of mode and frequency.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Andy Wood]

Hi Arliss,

I recently had a similar problem with my K3. I contact Elecraft and received
this response from Gary:

-
See if it will produce 12w on 160-10m, and at least 8w on 6m, in Tune, with
the KPA3 menu set to Bypass. The VFO should be near the middle of the band.

Check the 3 LPA mounting screws on the bottom panel are all tight too.

Be sure it passes VCO MD CAL too, and the ADC REF menu is set as shown
below:
-

In my case, running VCO MD CAL cured it. I also asked Gary why this value
may have been corrupted - here is his response:
It does change sometimes with age or changes in temp, humidity, or
altitude. Not a bad idea to redo VCO MD CAL from time to time.

Andy  VK4KY



--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-instability-tp7571269p7571271.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Walter Underwood]

Something similar happened with my KX3. Support told me to reset and reload all 
the firmware, and it worked fine after that.

I recommend that you get advice from Elecraft. Their advice worked for me.

wunder
K6WRU

On Mar 13, 2013, at 8:12 PM, Arliss wrote:

 Running the low and high power TX gain calibration via the K3 Utility gave 
 the following result:
 
 TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to a 
 consistent value.  5W calibration failed.
 
 TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to a 
 consistent value.  50 W calibration failed.
 
 The low power calibration failed on 40 meters and stopped there.  The 50 W 
 calibration failed on 160 meters and stopped there.
 
 The radio also gave an error message: ERR TXG (Transmit gain constant out of 
 range).
 
 73,  Arliss
 
 
 
 Arliss,
 
 I would suggest that you run the Transmit Gain Calibration and see if that 
 improves the situation.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 3/13/2013 9:10 PM, Arliss wrote:
 I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output from my K3/100. 
  No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been a few days), so I thought 
 I'd try here.
 
  The problem is that at relatively low power output levels
 (approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not remain constant.  
  If I engage TUNE, the power will vary plus/minus 3 or 4 watts, then jump 
 up briefly by as much as 10 watts or more before resuming smaller 
 excursions.  Although the power variations are brief, they cause the grid 
 protection circuit in the amp to trip.  This behavior seems to be 
 independent of mode and frequency.
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--
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

[Wes Stewart]

Thanks for this.  I installed a couple of solder lugs (tags), bent them until 
they touched and soldered them together. I did this in situ on the operating 
bench.  Probably could have done a better job in the workshop but DX was 
calling.

--- On Mon, 3/4/13, Ian White gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk wrote:

From: Ian White gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power
To: 'Wes Stewart' n...@yahoo.com, 'Elecraft Reflector' 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Monday, March 4, 2013, 12:06 AM

When first assembling the RF output connector and the KANT3/KAT3 board,
I didn't like the idea of using the long standoff pillar as a ground
return for large RF currents. The end of the pillar is actually quite
close to one of the mounting holes of the SO239, so a much shorter
return path can be made by using two solder tags, bent carefully so that
they overlap and then soldered together.

If Elecraft could supply a suitably drilled and twisted bit of metal,
problems in that upper rear right corner of the K3 might disappear.
 

73 from Ian GM3SEK


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-
boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: 04 March 2013 01:45
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

Has anyone come up with a permanent fix for the erratic output power
problem?  I'm not talking about the 100W PA issue, but the issue
solved
(temporarily) by loosening and re-tightening the screws in the metal
standoff
on the output board near the coax connector.

According to Murphy's Law, mine failed during the DX contest and the
chase
for TX5K QSOs.  The screw technique worked for awhile but then I had to
resort to tapping on the top of the case near the connector.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

[hawley, charles j jr]

I don't think I ever had the problem, but I drilled 7/64 out the 2D spacer and 
easily replaced it with only the cover removed.

Chuck, KE9UW
AARL, CCA
Lionel Trains TCA, LCCA, LRRC
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWRA, BMWMOA #224

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of Ian White [gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 1:06 AM
To: 'Wes Stewart'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

When first assembling the RF output connector and the KANT3/KAT3 board,
I didn't like the idea of using the long standoff pillar as a ground
return for large RF currents. The end of the pillar is actually quite
close to one of the mounting holes of the SO239, so a much shorter
return path can be made by using two solder tags, bent carefully so that
they overlap and then soldered together.

If Elecraft could supply a suitably drilled and twisted bit of metal,
problems in that upper rear right corner of the K3 might disappear.


73 from Ian GM3SEK


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-
boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: 04 March 2013 01:45
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

Has anyone come up with a permanent fix for the erratic output power
problem?  I'm not talking about the 100W PA issue, but the issue
solved
(temporarily) by loosening and re-tightening the screws in the metal
standoff
on the output board near the coax connector.

According to Murphy's Law, mine failed during the DX contest and the
chase
for TX5K QSOs.  The screw technique worked for awhile but then I had to
resort to tapping on the top of the case near the connector.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

[Don Wilhelm]

Wes,

I believe Elecraft has already implemented a fix for that in later K3s 
(starting about a year ago) - at least there was talk about doing it and 
supplying one 2D connector that was different then the others (with 
threads removed from thee hole).
Removing the threads from the center hole of the 2D connector eliminates 
the dependency for first tightening the screw (really tight) into the 2D 
connector and then tightening the standoff (without loosening the screw).


So if you want to fix yours, drill out the center hole of the 2D 
connector so the 1/2 inch screw can pass through it (1/8 inch drill 
bit).  The screw is then tightened when the standoff is added to the end 
of the screw.


Be certain to hold the 2D connector in a vise or otherwise secure it 
while drilling so it does not spin and cause injury.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/3/2013 8:45 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

Has anyone come up with a permanent fix for the erratic output power problem?  I'm not 
talking about the 100W PA issue, but the issue solved (temporarily) by 
loosening and re-tightening the screws in the metal standoff on the output board near the 
coax connector.

According to Murphy's Law, mine failed during the DX contest and the chase for 
TX5K QSOs.  The screw technique worked for awhile but then I had to resort to 
tapping on the top of the case near the connector.

Maybe Elecraft can offer an optional hammer to be used for this purpose?  
(K3HAMMMER?)
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

[Wes Stewart]

I'll give that a try.  Believe it or not, I worked TX5K on 20m RTTY while 
thumping the case during my exchange transmission.

--- On Sun, 3/3/13, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:

From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power
To: Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com
Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Sunday, March 3, 2013, 7:11 PM

Wes,

I believe Elecraft has already implemented a fix for that in later K3s 
(starting about a year ago) - at least there was talk about doing it and 
supplying one 2D connector that was different then the others (with threads 
removed from thee hole).
Removing the threads from the center hole of the 2D connector eliminates the 
dependency for first tightening the screw (really tight) into the 2D connector 
and then tightening the standoff (without loosening the screw).

So if you want to fix yours, drill out the center hole of the 2D connector so 
the 1/2 inch screw can pass through it (1/8 inch drill bit).  The screw is then 
tightened when the standoff is added to the end of the screw.

Be certain to hold the 2D connector in a vise or otherwise secure it while 
drilling so it does not spin and cause injury.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/3/2013 8:45 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
 Has anyone come up with a permanent fix for the erratic output power problem? 
  I'm not talking about the 100W PA issue, but the issue solved 
 (temporarily) by loosening and re-tightening the screws in the metal standoff 
 on the output board near the coax connector.
 
 According to Murphy's Law, mine failed during the DX contest and the chase 
 for TX5K QSOs.  The screw technique worked for awhile but then I had to 
 resort to tapping on the top of the case near the connector.
 
 Maybe Elecraft can offer an optional hammer to be used for this purpose?  
 (K3HAMMMER?)
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

[Ian White]

When first assembling the RF output connector and the KANT3/KAT3 board,
I didn't like the idea of using the long standoff pillar as a ground
return for large RF currents. The end of the pillar is actually quite
close to one of the mounting holes of the SO239, so a much shorter
return path can be made by using two solder tags, bent carefully so that
they overlap and then soldered together.

If Elecraft could supply a suitably drilled and twisted bit of metal,
problems in that upper rear right corner of the K3 might disappear.
 

73 from Ian GM3SEK


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-
boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: 04 March 2013 01:45
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Erratic output power

Has anyone come up with a permanent fix for the erratic output power
problem?  I'm not talking about the 100W PA issue, but the issue
solved
(temporarily) by loosening and re-tightening the screws in the metal
standoff
on the output board near the coax connector.

According to Murphy's Law, mine failed during the DX contest and the
chase
for TX5K QSOs.  The screw technique worked for awhile but then I had to
resort to tapping on the top of the case near the connector.

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - Speaker output in various modes

[iain macdonnell - N6ML]

I wonder if you have AGC turned off in DATA mode? What appears after
AGC- on the display? AGC mode is remembered per-mode

73,

~iain / N6ML


On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 5:17 PM, rich kennedy astro_maryl...@yahoo.com wrote:
 New K3 with latest firmware.  Newbie user.  HRD Software.
 Situation: Set speaker output volume for comfortable sounding CW and SSB (RF 
 gain close to 'full').  Then when going to data mode the same (CW or SSB) 
 signals blast me out of the shack - very very loud requiring me to 
 substantially back off both RF and AF gain.  Checked soundcard settings for 
 both HRD and Windows7 any adjustments do not make any difference.  Help.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio output current limit mod

[bruce . beford]

Hi, Drew. 
No reply yet... on or off list. 
73,
Bruce, N1RX

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 08:43:21 -0500, drewko drew...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Bruce,

 Did you ever get a response to this question? I have  noticed
 questions about this but have never seen a response. I would also like
 to know about this mod. 

 73,
 Drew
 AF2Z


 On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:15:21 -0400, you wrote:

 ANy chance we can see the application note on this (second) K3 audio output
 mod added to the web page soon? I like keeping my K3 up to date, and I have
 some other updates to apply. 
 
  
 Thanks,
 
 Bruce, N1RX
 
 K3 #559
 
  
 Back in  August, Wayne posted the following:
 
  
 Iain,
  The mod you referenced below is a very old one (470 ohm resistors 
 on  the KIO3). It has been in production for a long time. 
  The mod I was talking about is newer (2010, I believe). It 
 involves a  pair of very small-valued resistors in series with the 
 AF output  coupling capacitors. This, too, is in production. 
  However, I just looked on the K3 mods page, and it appears that we 
  never did turn this into a mod kit. We'll get this corrected right 
 away. 
  Wayne
 N6KR
  
  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Don Wilhelm wrote:

There is one possibility of a loose connection in the ground path for 
the antenna connectors.

At the upper right-rear corner of the K3 there is a 2D connector, a 
long screw and a standoff is fastened to the threads of that long 
screw. The tightness of that standoff is important to the ground path 
to the antenna connectors.  See page 22 of the K3 Assembly manual.

To tighten the standoff, you will have to first loosen the screw that 
goes into the inside end of that standoff, then tighten the standoff 
with pliers (or better yet, a 3/16 inch wrench).  Once you have 
tightened the standoff against the 2D connector, you can tighten the 
screw again.


That slender pillar is the main return path for an ampere or more of RF 
current flowing between the KAT3 board and the rear panel sockets. As 
someone whose design instincts were developed at VHF, where all RF 
ground paths must be short, broad and direct, I didn't feel comfortable 
about that corner of the K3.

Yes, we know that it works and it's good enough for HF. But in these 
days of compulsory EMC testing and microscopically detailed product 
reviews, even HF designers are coming to realise that bending the rules 
for good RF grounding will eat into the margins of performance, spurious 
signal rejection and stability.

RF grounding of the KAT3 board is also far too dependent on the 
tightness of the screws at each end of the pillar and the cleanness of 
all the contact surfaces.

That ground return path can be much improved by connecting the mounting 
screw of J1 directly to the corner of the KAT3 board, using two solder 
tags that are overlapped and soldered directly together. My K3 doesn't 
necessarily work any better, but it does satisfy the instincts of an old 
VHF hound  :-)


-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems (partially fixed!)

[Mark n2qt]

As an update, (for all those following this thread with bated breath)

It looks like the problem of being unable to get full power out on the bands
below 17M, and the inability to do a TXGain calibration, was due to some
issue with the configuration of the ATU.  I set ATU to not installed and 
then
back to installed and power output came back up.  In addition when the
ATU is enabled and used to tune the 50 ohm load, the SWR after tuning
is 1:1.  (those who are following this will remember that originally tuning
made the SWR worse).  My idea of a loose connection appears to be wrong.

Now, the remaining problem is that the Current Display does not indicate the
current actually drawn.  The display 'saturates' somewhere around 3 amps or
so. (It appears to read sensibly up to that level, and then flattens out as 
power
is turned up).

I'll ask Elecraft Tech support for guidance on this one

I'm hoping to use the rig in the upcoming CQWW, so if there anything amiss,
it's sure to show up then.

Mark n2qt


-Original Message- 
From: Ian White GM3SEK
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 4:54 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

Don Wilhelm wrote:

There is one possibility of a loose connection in the ground path for
the antenna connectors.

At the upper right-rear corner of the K3 there is a 2D connector, a
long screw and a standoff is fastened to the threads of that long
screw. The tightness of that standoff is important to the ground path
to the antenna connectors.  See page 22 of the K3 Assembly manual.

To tighten the standoff, you will have to first loosen the screw that
goes into the inside end of that standoff, then tighten the standoff
with pliers (or better yet, a 3/16 inch wrench).  Once you have
tightened the standoff against the 2D connector, you can tighten the
screw again.


That slender pillar is the main return path for an ampere or more of RF
current flowing between the KAT3 board and the rear panel sockets. As
someone whose design instincts were developed at VHF, where all RF
ground paths must be short, broad and direct, I didn't feel comfortable
about that corner of the K3.

Yes, we know that it works and it's good enough for HF. But in these
days of compulsory EMC testing and microscopically detailed product
reviews, even HF designers are coming to realise that bending the rules
for good RF grounding will eat into the margins of performance, spurious
signal rejection and stability.

RF grounding of the KAT3 board is also far too dependent on the
tightness of the screws at each end of the pillar and the cleanness of
all the contact surfaces.

That ground return path can be much improved by connecting the mounting
screw of J1 directly to the corner of the KAT3 board, using two solder
tags that are overlapped and soldered directly together. My K3 doesn't
necessarily work any better, but it does satisfy the instincts of an old
VHF hound  :-)


-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Mark n2qt]

one more bit of info.

If I use the tuner into 50 ohms it finds a match but when I
manually transmit the swr through the tuner is high,
for example 4.4:1 on 40.  Bypassing the tuner gives the
1:1 expected with the dummy load, although at 30 some
watts.

I really think there is a floating cable ground somewhere
in there.

Mark n2qt

-Original Message- 
From: Mark n2qt
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 1:44 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

On a new to me K3, I am having problems with power output below 15M.   For
example
the power output on 80 maxed out at 30 watts.  (good swr etc., no alarms,
voltage input
is good etc.).

So figured it was a TX gain issue so set up recalibrate it.  The 5 W
calibration goes fine
on 160, but fails on 80 with the following dialog

Starting 5 watt calibration
Calibrating at 1.900 MHz
Calibrating at 3.750 MHz
SWR 3.7-1 is too high for calibration
Verify that a dummy load is attached to AN2;

(and yes the dummy load was connected to AN2,  I had previously tried it on
AN1 with the
same results.)

If I then transmit manually, the SWR indicated is 1:1 and I can adjust power
up to the same
30W indicated previously.

So, the TX calibrate complains of high SWR, but manually cannot replicate
it.

Any ideas (really, really) welcome.

Unit does have the AntTuner which is set to bypass (and it looks like the
calibrate routine also
does this.)

Mark n2qt


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Mark n2qt]

thanks for the suggestion John.  I tried it but it didn't allow calibration 
to occur.
However I noticed that after the ATU tuned the 50 ohm load the rig showed
high SWR (4.1:1 or so) when I manually keyed it.  Also on the bands the
power output it good, the Current drawn is shown as 2.3 Amps, which would
be pretty spectacular.  I did confirm the ~100W output power on a W2 
wattmeter.

So something is definitely up

Mark n2qt

-Original Message- 
From: Dr John Farmer
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 2:01 PM
To: Mark n2qt
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

Hi Mark,

Just read your posting.

I had some quirky things happen with my K3 with the tuner in Bypass mode. I 
needed to set the bypass LC settings in the tuner to remedy them.

Try the following:
Switch back to ANT 1.
Attach 50 ohm dummy load to ANT 1.
Engage the ATU
Tune the ATU in to the dummy load on every band sequentially from 160 to 6m
Put ATU back into bypass mode and then retry the tx gain calibration 
routine.

Hope that helps.

73
John
VK7JB

Sent from my iPhone

On 23/09/2012, at 3:44, Mark n2qt n...@verizon.net wrote:

 On a new to me K3, I am having problems with power output below 15M.   For
 example
 the power output on 80 maxed out at 30 watts.  (good swr etc., no alarms,
 voltage input
 is good etc.).

 So figured it was a TX gain issue so set up recalibrate it.  The 5 W
 calibration goes fine
 on 160, but fails on 80 with the following dialog

 Starting 5 watt calibration
 Calibrating at 1.900 MHz
 Calibrating at 3.750 MHz
 SWR 3.7-1 is too high for calibration
 Verify that a dummy load is attached to AN2;

 (and yes the dummy load was connected to AN2,  I had previously tried it 
 on
 AN1 with the
 same results.)

 If I then transmit manually, the SWR indicated is 1:1 and I can adjust 
 power
 up to the same
 30W indicated previously.

 So, the TX calibrate complains of high SWR, but manually cannot replicate
 it.

 Any ideas (really, really) welcome.

 Unit does have the AntTuner which is set to bypass (and it looks like the
 calibrate routine also
 does this.)

 Mark n2qt


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Don Wilhelm]

Mark,

There is one possibility of a loose connection in the ground path for 
the antenna connectors.

At the upper right-rear corner of the K3 there is a 2D connector, a long 
screw and a standoff is fastened to the threads of that long screw.
The tightness of that standoff is important to the ground path to the 
antenna connectors.  See page 22 of the K3 Assembly manual.

To tighten the standoff, you will have to first loosen the screw that 
goes into the inside end of that standoff, then tighten the standoff 
with pliers (or better yet, a 3/16 inch wrench).  Once you have 
tightened the standoff against the 2D connector, you can tighten the 
screw again.
I believe recent K3s are built with an enlarged hole in the 2D connector 
so the threads of the screw are not held captive by both the standoff 
and 2D connector.
On 9/22/2012 5:14 PM, Mark n2qt wrote:
 thanks for the suggestion John.  I tried it but it didn't allow calibration
 to occur.
 However I noticed that after the ATU tuned the 50 ohm load the rig showed
 high SWR (4.1:1 or so) when I manually keyed it.  Also on the bands the
 power output it good, the Current drawn is shown as 2.3 Amps, which would
 be pretty spectacular.  I did confirm the ~100W output power on a W2
 wattmeter.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3-AF Output Z?

[drewko]

Not sure if this is what you have in mind but I am using a MFJ-281
ClearTone speaker with my K3. It is peaky around 600-700 Hz (wish it
were a little lower...). Looks nice sitting on top of the K3 with its
matching colors: white letters on black...

73,
Drew
AF2Z


On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:06:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

Has anyone measured or know the AF output impedance or that of the internal 
stock speaker at sidetone freqs?   I'm still looking for an external speaker 
that can match or better the efficency of the stock one at 700Hz sidetone with 
60 deg. deflector.  Ditto with headphones.  
Mike, AC5P


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Lost output power...

[Dave Van Wallaghen]

Further info:

I sat down today and performed another firmware load per Fred's sequence 
with no change. I then tested for any heat generation from the driver 
and finals of the LPA module and could not detect any.

I dug out my old Tek 475A scope and did some signal tracing and verified 
that I have appropriate RF coming into the LPA module (pin 3 on P71A) as 
well as 12v coming in on pins 9  10 of P71B. I also have a logical HI 
on the 7T line (pin 1 of P71A) during XMIT. I do not have RF coming out 
on pin 1 of P71C.

I just emailed support with the same report, but I'm guessing my LPA is 
shot. Anybody have any idea what that will cost?

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I think I have it narrowed down 
pretty well now.

73,
Dave W8FGU


On 6/19/2012 9:13 AM, Dave Van Wallaghen wrote:
 Thanks for all the replies. I will try these suggestions tomorrow
 (working today) and post my results to the list for future reference. I
 will try the heat test on the LPA finals and driver first as I have all
 the panels off and it will be a quick way to find out if that is where
 the problem lies (kind of leaning that way).

 Fred, I read some of the same comments with regard to the firmware
 reload. I did in fact reload it a couple of times but not with the same
 power on/off/removal procedure you stated. If the LPA test is ok, I will
 try the reload again using your sequence. I always turn the K3/P3 off
 and then back on again after a load, but I have not tried the power
 removal technique.

 Thanks again guys and I hope to have some results early tomorrow morning.

 73,
 Dave W8FGU


 On 6/18/2012 6:37 PM, Dave Van Wallaghen wrote:
 Hi all,

 Before I contact service, I thought I might post my problem here in case
 it is something fairly simple.

 I returned from a 2.5 week vacation a couple of weeks ago and sat down
 to do the firmware upgrade to my K3. I had my K3 powered off and
 disconnected the antenna while away but it was still connected to a
 serial hub, paddles, P3 etc. It powered up just fine and I have never
 received any type of error message. After the firmware upgrade, I went
 to perform the TX Gain Calibration and noticed there is no power output.
 No matter what power level I set, I have no output either via the Tune
 function or keying. In fact, hitting the ATU Tune button only displays
 - - on the front panel. I can hear the relays go through their
 routine, but it never displays the SWR.

 I searched the archives and found a few who reported similar problems,
 but only a couple of solutions and a few without any resolution. I've
 ruled out all the settings things I could find i.e Test Mode, Tnx Inh is
 set to off etc. I did remove the KPA3 and I/O board and inserted the
 bypass connector and still the same result. I do have transverter
 output, so it is something past that - I'm presuming in the LPA area.

 I really don't know if I had power output before the firmware upgrade or
 not as I just didn't think to try it especially without receiving any
 kind of error message. And I'm pretty sure everything was working before
 I left for Dayton.

 Anyway, I just thought I'd ask here first before contacting service in
 case it is a known problem I just didn't find on Nabble.

 Thanks in advance   73,
 Dave W8FGU

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Lost output power...

[Dave Van Wallaghen]

Thanks for all the replies. I will try these suggestions tomorrow 
(working today) and post my results to the list for future reference. I 
will try the heat test on the LPA finals and driver first as I have all 
the panels off and it will be a quick way to find out if that is where 
the problem lies (kind of leaning that way).

Fred, I read some of the same comments with regard to the firmware 
reload. I did in fact reload it a couple of times but not with the same 
power on/off/removal procedure you stated. If the LPA test is ok, I will 
try the reload again using your sequence. I always turn the K3/P3 off 
and then back on again after a load, but I have not tried the power 
removal technique.

Thanks again guys and I hope to have some results early tomorrow morning.

73,
Dave W8FGU


On 6/18/2012 6:37 PM, Dave Van Wallaghen wrote:
 Hi all,

 Before I contact service, I thought I might post my problem here in case
 it is something fairly simple.

 I returned from a 2.5 week vacation a couple of weeks ago and sat down
 to do the firmware upgrade to my K3. I had my K3 powered off and
 disconnected the antenna while away but it was still connected to a
 serial hub, paddles, P3 etc. It powered up just fine and I have never
 received any type of error message. After the firmware upgrade, I went
 to perform the TX Gain Calibration and noticed there is no power output.
 No matter what power level I set, I have no output either via the Tune
 function or keying. In fact, hitting the ATU Tune button only displays
 - - on the front panel. I can hear the relays go through their
 routine, but it never displays the SWR.

 I searched the archives and found a few who reported similar problems,
 but only a couple of solutions and a few without any resolution. I've
 ruled out all the settings things I could find i.e Test Mode, Tnx Inh is
 set to off etc. I did remove the KPA3 and I/O board and inserted the
 bypass connector and still the same result. I do have transverter
 output, so it is something past that - I'm presuming in the LPA area.

 I really don't know if I had power output before the firmware upgrade or
 not as I just didn't think to try it especially without receiving any
 kind of error message. And I'm pretty sure everything was working before
 I left for Dayton.

 Anyway, I just thought I'd ask here first before contacting service in
 case it is a known problem I just didn't find on Nabble.

 Thanks in advance  73,
 Dave W8FGU

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] power output

[Mike Clarke]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply.  I've just done some more tests here into a
dummy load. 

Set for 100W output, the K3's meter  shows me exactly that on CW.
On SSB I can get as much as two extra bars above the 100W mark.
If I turn compression off this happens considerably less often,
but the meter will still bounce up there occasionally.

Having perused the manual a bit more, there is a note on the
bottom of page 28 which suggests that voice power and CW power
are not the same; presumably the power the user requests is
considered in 'CW' terms, even in voice modes; in which case
fiddling with CONFIG:TXG VCE should sort things out.

So in summary it seems I led myself astray by imagining that
there is more feedback from the meter to the PA than is, in fact,
the case; hence wondering why the K3 was telling me it was giving
me 120W when I asked for 100.

73,

-- 
Mike, M0PRL


On 18/Jan 10:18, Mike Rodgers wrote:

 My k3/10 puts out slightly more. Sometimes 9 or 9.5 watts equals 10. 
 Since that drives the 100w pa I would expect a greater amount at 100w. 
 I just figured it had to do with compression on ssb. Try it with zero 
 compression. Also advise how much more it's putting out. 
 
 73
 Mike R
 
 Sent from my spy ring
 
 Amateur/Ham Radio KE5GBC
 HF  Echolink
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output

[dro...@necg.de]

Mike,
 
maybe the calibration is wrong?
 
73, Olli - (ON/) DH8BQA
 
 



Mike Clarke clark...@clarkema.org hat am 17. Januar 2012 um 23:40 geschrieben:

 Ok folks, basic question time...

 Under what circumstances would the K3's power meter show me
 putting out more power than I have requested?  SSB if it makes
 any difference...

 73,

 --
 Mike, M0PRL


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output

[Mike Clarke]

That thought did occur to me, but then if the PA has a more
accurate idea of power than the meter that is somehow independant
of the meter's calibration, why is the meter not simply
calibrated to the PA's more accurate idea of its own output?

My (possibly incorrect!) assumption was that the power measured
at the meter was fed back to the PA to achieve the requested
output.

-- 
Mike, M0PRL

On 18/Jan 00:09, dro...@necg.de wrote:

 Mike,
 maybe the calibration is wrong?
 
 73, Olli - (ON/) DH8BQA
 
 Mike Clarke clark...@clarkema.org hat am 17. Januar 2012 um 23:40 
 geschrieben:
 
  Ok folks, basic question time...
 
  Under what circumstances would the K3's power meter show me
  putting out more power than I have requested??? SSB if it makes
  any difference...
 
  73,
 
  --
  Mike, M0PRL
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC output jack fuse

[Bruce Beford]

Doug, N6TQS wrote:
 
 I like the APP for the main power connector on the K3, but having the 
 12VDC OUT and the PTT IN connector the same seems a Murphy-proofing 
 fail.  The fuse is very likely to fail before the device that's supposed 
 to drive PTT IN, but 
 
 Where is that fuse, anyway?
 
Sorry for the late reply, Doug. Assuming your are asking about F2, the PTC
fuse for the 12vDC out jack, it is on the main board, directly beside the
12V out connector. You can see it here:
 
http://home.myfairpoint.net/vze1t5sc/UR_top_RF_bd.jpg
 
-Bruce, N1RX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DC output jack fuse

[Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604]

Thanks.  If it's a PTC fuse, at least it won't require replacing, OTOH, 
it's not going to protect the external switching device quite as well.

In the other direction, it does look as if there'd be no problem if the 
power connector for the P3 or PR6 is plugged into the PTT IN or KEY OUT 
RCA jacks.

73, doug

On 26-Mar-11 10:31, Bruce Beford wrote:
 Doug, N6TQS wrote:

 I like the APP for the main power connector on the K3, but having the
 12VDC OUT and the PTT IN connector the same seems a Murphy-proofing
 fail.  The fuse is very likely to fail before the device that's supposed
 to drive PTT IN, but 

 Where is that fuse, anyway?

 Sorry for the late reply, Doug. Assuming your are asking about F2, the PTC
 fuse for the 12vDC out jack, it is on the main board, directly beside the
 12V out connector. You can see it here:

 http://home.myfairpoint.net/vze1t5sc/UR_top_RF_bd.jpg

 -Bruce, N1RX
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio Output Power ??

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The LM4950 is rated at 3.1W per channel to a 4 Ohm
load with 1% THD+N.

The spec sheet shows THD increasing significantly once
output goes above about 2.3W into 4 Ohms, above about
1.8 Watts into 8 Ohms and above about 900 mW into 16
Ohms at 12V.  THD is below 0.03% until the knee is
reached.  Increasing Vdd from 12 to 13.5V increases the
available output by about 25% based on the charts
included in the data sheet.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 3/15/2011 9:31 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
 If I remember correctly, there are two different audio amplifier circuits in 
 the K3.  One for the speaker and one for the headphones (or, it may be more 
 complex then that).

 Does anyone know the power output level of the speaker audio amplifier?

 73, phil, K7PEH

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: low output after air travel

[Ralph Parker]

... my K3... only shows a maximum of 12 watts output.
It also has an error message 12 volt error...

I had the same problem.
Ol' #1823 worked flawlessly at PJ6A with 100 watts out for 25k QSOs.
After bringing her home, I had the above problem in EVERY contest.
Gary at K3 support suspected the plugs/sockets between the motherboard,
KPAIO3  and KPA100. Sure enough, they were discoloured, probably from heat.
He suggested changing the plugs or bypassing them as a 'temporary' measure.
He can send you pictures of where to put the jumpers.
To save the motherboard, I elected to use the 'bypass surgery'.
Took about 15 minutes, and solved the problem.
Apparently, the newer models with gold pins don't have this problem.

Ralph, VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput

[Julian, G4ILO]

Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO wrote:
 
 I have (and have always had) mine set to 20 also. Didn't help, in this 
 instance.
 
 I often turn the AGC off when running JT65A on 20m using the JT65-HF 
 software, so that a strong signal somewhere in the 2 kHz passband doesn't 
 trigger the AGC and wipe out a weak -25 dB signal I'm trying to decode.
 
 

Me too. I normally listen via a pair of powered computer speakers plugged
into the rear SPKRS socket not the K3 internal speaker. Does that mean I'm
still vulnerable to this issue?

I don't use the PHONES socket, presumably because that would disable the
front panel socket when I want to use headphones.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Speaker-output-amp-kaput-tp5608245p5611086.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

I would assume so, since that's what I was running, too.

I did find a speaker workaround -- since the K3's audio is always hooked up 
to the computer for digital modes through the Line Out port, I went into the 
microphone dialog in Windows and turned on the listen to option. I now 
have speaker output back again, through the computer sound card and my 
regular computer speakers -- but only one of them! For some reason, only one 
channel of audio works when using this method. The cable from K3 Line Out is 
stereo, but I suspect the Mic In port on the sound card is not.

My headset (Heil ProSet) is plugged into the rear jacks and stays there 
permanently. Nothing is plugged into the front of the radio.

Bill W5WVO

--
From: Julian, G4ILO julian.g4...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 12:22
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput



 Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO wrote:

 I have (and have always had) mine set to 20 also. Didn't help, in this
 instance.

 I often turn the AGC off when running JT65A on 20m using the JT65-HF
 software, so that a strong signal somewhere in the 2 kHz passband doesn't
 trigger the AGC and wipe out a weak -25 dB signal I'm trying to decode.



 Me too. I normally listen via a pair of powered computer speakers plugged
 into the rear SPKRS socket not the K3 internal speaker. Does that mean I'm
 still vulnerable to this issue?

 I don't use the PHONES socket, presumably because that would disable the
 front panel socket when I want to use headphones.

 -
 Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
 * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
 * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
 * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

 -- 
 View this message in context: 
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Speaker-output-amp-kaput-tp5608245p5611086.html
 Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput

[Dave Hachadorian]

Go to the Elecraft mail archives and search for the thread K3 
speaker amp - sub side inop.

It's a tricky part to replace, but it's $5 if you do it yourself, 
vs. about $140 (shipping, parts, labor) if Elecraft does it.

Another option is to just leave it dead, which I think I will do 
next time it blows up. I don't know why it is so delicate. A good 
rule is never turn off the agc with speaker connected.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ





--
From: Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO w5...@cybermesa.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 11:19 AM
To: [Elecraft] elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput

 I recently fried (I believe) the speaker amplifier in my K3, 
 apparently by
 just turning off the radio and turning it back on too quickly. 
 Perhaps the
 fact that the AGC was disabled at the time might have had 
 something to do
 with this, though that is just a guess. I accidentally turned 
 off the K3 by
 pushing the POWER button by mistake, and, cursing my 
 klutziness, immediately
 pushed the button again to turn it back on, as I was in the 
 middle of a QSO.
 The radio came back on -- but sans speaker. It has been dead 
 ever since.
 Configuration settings have been double-checked. It's not a 
 catastrophe for
 me, because I normally use headphones anyway, but I'd like to 
 get it fixed.

 Since I'm not reading every post on the list these days, I have 
 probably
 missed something about this, because I dimly recall seeing some 
 subject
 headings about the speaker amplifier. I didn't read these. Is 
 this a
 user-replaceable part? If so, what is involved?

 And if this part is blowing up regularly, why is it so fragile? 
 Is there
 something that can be done to better protect it?

 My K3 was recently (couple months ago) updated at the factory 
 with all
 applicable mods.

 Bill W5WVO
 New Mexico


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput

[JAMES ROGERS]

Bill,
Look at your K3 manual page 53. and note the menu item AF LIM. After  
seeing the posts on the amp failure, I immediate set this to limit the  
AF output to safe levels as I frequently operate without the AGC being  
ON (digital modes).  I have mine set to 20, just arbitrary, half way  
between 17 and 23. I also try to remember to reduce the RF gain to the  
S meter indicating S9 before turning off the AGC. It is not a cure for  
the fragile nature of the AF amp device but hopefully it will save  
me from a similar fate. I am glad to know that if I do blow mine up,  
the headphones will still work.

73s  Jim, W4ATK
On Oct 6, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO wrote:

 I recently fried (I believe) the speaker amplifier in my K3,  
 apparently by
 just turning off the radio and turning it back on too quickly.  
 Perhaps the
 fact that the AGC was disabled at the time might have had something  
 to do
 with this, though that is just a guess. I accidentally turned off  
 the K3 by
 pushing the POWER button by mistake, and, cursing my klutziness,  
 immediately
 pushed the button again to turn it back on, as I was in the middle  
 of a QSO.
 The radio came back on -- but sans speaker. It has been dead ever  
 since.
 Configuration settings have been double-checked. It's not a  
 catastrophe for
 me, because I normally use headphones anyway, but I'd like to get it  
 fixed.

 Since I'm not reading every post on the list these days, I have  
 probably
 missed something about this, because I dimly recall seeing some  
 subject
 headings about the speaker amplifier. I didn't read these. Is this a
 user-replaceable part? If so, what is involved?

 And if this part is blowing up regularly, why is it so fragile? Is  
 there
 something that can be done to better protect it?

 My K3 was recently (couple months ago) updated at the factory with all
 applicable mods.

 Bill W5WVO
 New Mexico


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

I have (and have always had) mine set to 20 also. Didn't help, in this 
instance.

I often turn the AGC off when running JT65A on 20m using the JT65-HF 
software, so that a strong signal somewhere in the 2 kHz passband doesn't 
trigger the AGC and wipe out a weak -25 dB signal I'm trying to decode.

Bill W5WVO

--
From: JAMES ROGERS w4...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 22:01
To: Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO w5...@cybermesa.net
Cc: [Elecraft] elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Speaker output amp kaput

 Bill,
 Look at your K3 manual page 53. and note the menu item AF LIM. After 
 seeing the posts on the amp failure, I immediate set this to limit the  AF 
 output to safe levels as I frequently operate without the AGC being  ON 
 (digital modes).  I have mine set to 20, just arbitrary, half way  between 
 17 and 23. I also try to remember to reduce the RF gain to the  S meter 
 indicating S9 before turning off the AGC. It is not a cure for  the 
 fragile nature of the AF amp device but hopefully it will save  me from 
 a similar fate. I am glad to know that if I do blow mine up,  the 
 headphones will still work.

 73s  Jim, W4ATK
 On Oct 6, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO wrote:

 I recently fried (I believe) the speaker amplifier in my K3,  apparently 
 by
 just turning off the radio and turning it back on too quickly.  Perhaps 
 the
 fact that the AGC was disabled at the time might have had something  to 
 do
 with this, though that is just a guess. I accidentally turned off  the K3 
 by
 pushing the POWER button by mistake, and, cursing my klutziness, 
 immediately
 pushed the button again to turn it back on, as I was in the middle  of a 
 QSO.
 The radio came back on -- but sans speaker. It has been dead ever  since.
 Configuration settings have been double-checked. It's not a  catastrophe 
 for
 me, because I normally use headphones anyway, but I'd like to get it 
 fixed.

 Since I'm not reading every post on the list these days, I have  probably
 missed something about this, because I dimly recall seeing some  subject
 headings about the speaker amplifier. I didn't read these. Is this a
 user-replaceable part? If so, what is involved?

 And if this part is blowing up regularly, why is it so fragile? Is  there
 something that can be done to better protect it?

 My K3 was recently (couple months ago) updated at the factory with all
 applicable mods.

 Bill W5WVO
 New Mexico


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Bruce McLaughlin]

Don:

For what it may be worth, I was in contact with Don, N4ZZ, the other day and
he was complaining about a momentary, periodic drop in power output from the
K-3 of approximately 50% while driving his amplifier.  He was using the
latest firmware version 3.79.  He had not had that problem before.  I had
downloaded version 3.79 but have held off installing it until we see whether
there is in fact a problem.  I am using version 3.77 and the output is quite
stable as it has been all along.  I think I should mention I have seen one
or two other references regarding similar problems from other posting as
well.  Although Don's problem is not exactly the same as Tom's it does
mention unstable power output on sideband.  Perhaps this warrants further
investigation.

Bruce-W8FU

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:34 AM
To: Juha - oh6os
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

Juha,

Tuning within any band will not reset the power output controls, however 
changing bands does reset it.

As Joe has mentioned, do the power calibration, it will help.  The power 
control mechanism does use the data obtained from the TX gain 
calibration, so yes they are related.

73,
Don W3FPR

Juha - oh6os wrote:
 Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.

 juha - oh6os

   

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Arthur Nienhouse]

I have a similar issue  with my K3 VL-1000 combination the amp would key 
up full power then fold back slowly until it was running about 1/2 output.
No amount of reducing the mic or power settings changed this behavior 
and still have the right output. Even setting drive for lower amp output
it still marched backwards something is triggering a fold back when it 
is not required to. I do not see any spike on key up so I don't think it 
is a
key up timing issue.

My work around is to not connect the radios ALC then engage the input 
attenuator on the amp that limits the drive input to 100 watts the amp 
and the K3  has been doing just fine since the born on date June 13 09, 
so I have forgotten about this issue all together.
I don't use the VL-1000 all the time but when I do it works seamless 
with no ALC related problems at all.

My K3 serial #3142 has the latest up date I can't remember if this issue 
was there from the first time I used the amp with the ALC connected or if
it was something that started with a later update in firmware, I think 
it was ok at first because I was surprised when the issue first showed up.

Regards
Art
ka9zap


On 4/2/2010 2:36 PM, Bruce McLaughlin wrote:
 Don:

 For what it may be worth, I was in contact with Don, N4ZZ, the other day and
 he was complaining about a momentary, periodic drop in power output from the
 K-3 of approximately 50% while driving his amplifier.  He was using the
 latest firmware version 3.79.  He had not had that problem before.  I had
 downloaded version 3.79 but have held off installing it until we see whether
 there is in fact a problem.  I am using version 3.77 and the output is quite
 stable as it has been all along.  I think I should mention I have seen one
 or two other references regarding similar problems from other posting as
 well.  Although Don's problem is not exactly the same as Tom's it does
 mention unstable power output on sideband.  Perhaps this warrants further
 investigation.

 Bruce-W8FU

 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
 Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:34 AM
 To: Juha - oh6os
 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

 Juha,

 Tuning within any band will not reset the power output controls, however
 changing bands does reset it.

 As Joe has mentioned, do the power calibration, it will help.  The power
 control mechanism does use the data obtained from the TX gain
 calibration, so yes they are related.

 73,
 Don W3FPR

 Juha - oh6os wrote:

 Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.

 juha - oh6os



  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Arthur Nienhouse]

Joe
Tuner works just fine everything is just like a 100 / 200 watt Yaesu is 
driving the VL-1000 my Quadra
is over ten years old and was built when Yaesu had the company it is the 
second version
I want to say of the original released.

I use the K3 [TUNE] button for tuning the tuner and band changing, I do 
not change the power level.
  I put the amp out put into a dummy load then use the [F-set] button  
and  [TUNE] on the K3
the amp will change bands using this method with anything over 50 watts 
or so. One of these
days I will do up a band data cable for the band selection of the 
Quadra. The Quadra has worked
flawless from day one.The switching power supply has been on all these 
years with out a hitch. I hear the
maintenance feature exercising the relays in the middle of the night 
regularly.

Regards
Art
ka9zap

On 4/2/2010 6:08 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
 Art,


 My work around is to not connect the radios ALC then engage the
 input attenuator on the amp that limits the drive input to 100
 watts the amp and the K3  has been doing just fine since the
 born on date June 13 09, so I have forgotten about this issue
 all together.
  
 Do you have enough drive to operate the tuner with the attenuator
 on or have you tried it in that configuration?

 I have a pair of Quadras waiting to be mated with my pair of K3s
 once I get done with some antenna work and shack cleaning.

 73,

 ... Joe, W4TV





 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arthur
 Nienhouse
 Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:05 PM
 To: Elecraft post
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB


 I have a similar issue  with my K3 VL-1000 combination the
 amp would key
 up full power then fold back slowly until it was running
 about 1/2 output. No amount of reducing the mic or power
 settings changed this behavior
 and still have the right output. Even setting drive for lower
 amp output it still marched backwards something is triggering
 a fold back when it
 is not required to. I do not see any spike on key up so I
 don't think it
 is a
 key up timing issue.

 My work around is to not connect the radios ALC then engage the input
 attenuator on the amp that limits the drive input to 100
 watts the amp
 and the K3  has been doing just fine since the born on date
 June 13 09,
 so I have forgotten about this issue all together.
 I don't use the VL-1000 all the time but when I do it works seamless
 with no ALC related problems at all.

 My K3 serial #3142 has the latest up date I can't remember if
 this issue
 was there from the first time I used the amp with the ALC
 connected or if it was something that started with a later
 update in firmware, I think
 it was ok at first because I was surprised when the issue
 first showed up.

 Regards
 Art
 ka9zap


 On 4/2/2010 2:36 PM, Bruce McLaughlin wrote:
  
 Don:

 For what it may be worth, I was in contact with Don, N4ZZ,

 the other
  
 day and he was complaining about a momentary, periodic drop

 in power
  
 output from the K-3 of approximately 50% while driving his

 amplifier.
  
 He was using the latest firmware version 3.79.  He had not had that
 problem before.  I had downloaded version 3.79 but have held off
 installing it until we see whether there is in fact a

 problem.  I am
  
 using version 3.77 and the output is quite stable as it has

 been all
  
 along.  I think I should mention I have seen one or two other
 references regarding similar problems from other posting as well.
 Although Don's problem is not exactly the same as Tom's it does
 mention unstable power output on sideband.  Perhaps this warrants
 further investigation.

 Bruce-W8FU

 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
 Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:34 AM
 To: Juha - oh6os
 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

 Juha,

 Tuning within any band will not reset the power output controls,
 however changing bands does reset it.

 As Joe has mentioned, do the power calibration, it will help.  The
 power control mechanism does use the data obtained from the TX gain
 calibration, so yes they are related.

 73,
 Don W3FPR

 Juha - oh6os wrote:


 Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.

 juha - oh6os




  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-]

Well, what I do is when I change frequencies, I go to cw and key it until the
power comes way up. Yes, it is a pain. Some may say you can't see a
difference on the s-meter but if you use an amp with tubes, that little
extra that takes time to come up makes a difference. This could be tweaked. 
-- 
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Ruben Navarro Huedo]

I press the TUNE button and this solves the problem.
Will it be solved with a firmware update?

2010/4/1 -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- connectme...@hotmail.com


 Well, what I do is when I change frequencies, I go to cw and key it until
 the
 power comes way up. Yes, it is a pain. Some may say you can't see a
 difference on the s-meter but if you use an amp with tubes, that little
 extra that takes time to come up makes a difference. This could be
 tweaked.
 --
 View this message in context:
 http://n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-on-SSB-tp4818879p4835445.html
 Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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-- 
Rubén Navarro Huedo
http://www.palotes.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Juha - oh6os]

Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.

juha - oh6os


ab2tc wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge number of K3
 users have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to aim
 conservatively for 50-80% of the requested peak power and then slowly,
 very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it
 stays there until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just
 turning the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an irritant
 nonetheless. If I am in a big rush to have full power on SSB after a QSY,
 I switch mode to TX data FSK D, do a quick squirt of TX and I have instant
 full SSB peak power.
 
 AB2TC - Knut
 
 
 Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
 
 
 
 When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
 that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
 and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
 watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
 
 Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
 wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
 TXG VCE.  
 
 73, 
 
... Joe, W4TV 
  
 snip
 
 
 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-on-SSB-tp4818879p4823131.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Don Wilhelm]

Juha,

Tuning within any band will not reset the power output controls, however 
changing bands does reset it.

As Joe has mentioned, do the power calibration, it will help.  The power 
control mechanism does use the data obtained from the TX gain 
calibration, so yes they are related.

73,
Don W3FPR

Juha - oh6os wrote:
 Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.

 juha - oh6os

   

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[ab2tc]

I will do the gain calibration again when I get home. I have done this
several times in the past without improvement, but not terribly recently.
Maybe there is a relatively recent firmware improvement in this area? Would
it be possible to change the firmware to not reset the ALC when doing a band
change without transmitting on the other band? I have a habit of using the
A/B button to take a quick peek on 10m, then coming back if there is nothing
there.

AB2TC - Knut


Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
 
 
 No, please, this is not a power calibration issue!
 
 Bull ... I have seen it and can recreate it at will. 
 
 If the wattmeter is not properly calibrated and the 
 transmit gains are off, the bower setting routines 
 do not act correctly.  With the transmitter properly 
 calibrated I see less than .5dB undershoot (more 
 than 95 W when commanded for 100W) when changing bands. 
 
 snip
 
 

-- 
View this message in context: 
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Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Don Wilhelm]

Knut,

That is not possible.  If it were done, there would be a large variation 
in output power from band to band - the gain of the transmit chain is 
not constant from band to band.

73,
Don W3FPR


ab2tc wrote:
 I will do the gain calibration again when I get home. I have done this
 several times in the past without improvement, but not terribly recently.
 Maybe there is a relatively recent firmware improvement in this area? Would
 it be possible to change the firmware to not reset the ALC when doing a band
 change without transmitting on the other band? I have a habit of using the
 A/B button to take a quick peek on 10m, then coming back if there is nothing
 there.

 AB2TC - Knut


 Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
   
 
 No, please, this is not a power calibration issue!
   
 Bull ... I have seen it and can recreate it at will. 

 If the wattmeter is not properly calibrated and the 
 transmit gains are off, the bower setting routines 
 do not act correctly.  With the transmitter properly 
 calibrated I see less than .5dB undershoot (more 
 than 95 W when commanded for 100W) when changing bands. 

 snip


 

   
 


 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
 Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2779 - Release Date: 03/30/10 
 02:32:00

   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
 that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
 and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
 watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.

Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
TXG VCE.  

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Juha Kasari
 Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:31 AM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB
 
 
 Hello,
 
 When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
 that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
 and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
 watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
 
 When I am using my linear (Titan, has peak power meter by 
 led) last one or two leds don't light on ssb, on cw they do 
 with the same driving power.
 
 I tried TXG VCE, but not effect.
 
 It is like ALC over react to voice peak.
 
 Is that normal behavior?
 
 73 de juha - oh6os K3 #2100 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[ab2tc]

Hi,

No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge number of K3 users
have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to aim
conservatively for 50-80% of the requested peak power and then slowly,
very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it stays
there until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just turning
the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an irritant nonetheless. If
I am in a big rush to have full power on SSB after a QSY, I switch mode to
TX data FSK D, do a quick squirt of TX and I have instant full SSB peak
power.

AB2TC - Knut


Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
 
 
 
 When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
 that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
 and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
 watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
 
 Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
 wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
 TXG VCE.  
 
 73, 
 
... Joe, W4TV 
  
 snip
 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-on-SSB-tp4818879p4821485.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Brendan Minish]

An undershoot of ~ 20% for the first few seconds of transmission on a
new frequency might be an irritant but an overshoot or aggressive fast
acting ALC leads to spatter on peaks, this is very common issue on the
bands today 
An undershoot of  ~20% on peaks (it's less on my K3) is negligible in
terms of the receiving end signal strength and a small price to pay for
a cleaner transmitted signal.

73
Brendan EI6IZ


On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 14:59 -0800, ab2tc wrote:
 Hi,
 
 No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge number of K3 users
 have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to aim
 conservatively for 50-80% of the requested peak power and then slowly,
 very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it stays
 there until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just turning
 the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an irritant nonetheless. If
 I am in a big rush to have full power on SSB after a QSY, I switch mode to
 TX data FSK D, do a quick squirt of TX and I have instant full SSB peak
 power.
 
 AB2TC - Knut
 
 
 Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
  
  
  
  When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
  that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
  and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
  watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
  
  Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
  wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
  TXG VCE.  
  
  73, 
  
 ... Joe, W4TV 
   
  snip
  
 

-- 
73
Brendan EI6IZ 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Tom W8JI]

 No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge 
 number of K3 users
 have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to 
 aim
 conservatively for 50-80% of the requested peak power 
 and then slowly,
 very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once 
 reaching 100% it stays

I'm having a weird SSB problem now. I just updated firmware 
to  MCU 03.79, FPF 01.08, and DSP to 02.54

On 20M LSB it behaves pretty much OK, but now on USB it 
barely makes any average power and has some weird peaks. 
It's almost like it has severe gain expansion.

I reloaded the updates (but did not download fresh files) 
and I have the same thing.

It was working OK with my older firmware. Anyone have any 
ideas??


Tom 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Fred Jensen]

Brendan Minish wrote:
 An undershoot of ~ 20% for the first few seconds of transmission on a
 new frequency might be an irritant but an overshoot or aggressive fast
 acting ALC leads to spatter on peaks, this is very common issue on the
 bands today 
 An undershoot of  ~20% on peaks (it's less on my K3) is negligible in
 terms of the receiving end signal strength and a small price to pay for
 a cleaner transmitted signal.

Folks, maybe I am missing so much here, but 20% undershoot at 100W 
requested is 20W.  The difference between 80W and 100W is 0.96910 dB, 
assuming my HP48GX can still do logs after all these years.

I think Brendan has it right, a second or two of some power between 80 
and 100W really is negligible.  On SSB [not often my mode], I step on 
the switch under the desk and talk ... works every time ... as long as I 
remember -- Step, then talk.

Now, pretending that I actually know what I'm about to say ... I think 
the power control in the K3 [and K2] is a big negative feedback loop 
called ALC by some.  How would it know where to stabilize to a requested 
power before power, any power, actually happened?

On a different subject, I'd pay money for a published decision tree for 
firmware updates and whether or not I need to install them.  Often -- 
OK, always -- this occurs just before the contest.  Many affect things 
that don't affect me, others can be another story.

73,

Fred K6DGW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 No, please, this is not a power calibration issue!

Bull ... I have seen it and can recreate it at will. 

If the wattmeter is not properly calibrated and the 
transmit gains are off, the bower setting routines 
do not act correctly.  With the transmitter properly 
calibrated I see less than .5dB undershoot (more 
than 95 W when commanded for 100W) when changing bands. 

If I intentionally miscalibrate the wattmeter (as I 
did by accident when building the unit) and then do 
the transmit gain calibration with an  inaccurate 
wattmeter, the radio will display a 2 to 3 dB undershoot 
(50 to 60 watts) when first changing bands.  

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of ab2tc
 Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 7:00 PM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB
 
 
 
 Hi,
 
 No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge 
 number of K3 users have complained about this propensity of 
 the SSB power to aim conservatively for 50-80% of the 
 requested peak power and then slowly, very slowly climbing up 
 to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it stays there 
 until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just 
 turning the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an 
 irritant nonetheless. If I am in a big rush to have full 
 power on SSB after a QSY, I switch mode to TX data FSK D, do 
 a quick squirt of TX and I have instant full SSB peak power.
 
 AB2TC - Knut
 
 
 Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
  
  
  
  When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice
  that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
  and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
  watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
  
  Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3
  wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
  TXG VCE.  
  
  73,
  
 ... Joe, W4TV
   
  snip
  
 
 -- 
 View this message in context: 
 http://n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-on-SSB-tp4818879p4821485.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Power output low on 30 meter band

[Phil Hystad]

OK, I fixed the problem.  The SWR reading on the K3 meter was showing about a 
2.8:1 SWR.  Obviously I forgot to tune through the ATU.  I did that and it 
fixed the problem.

peh

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Phil Hystad k7...@comcast.net
 Date: January 23, 2010 3:43:45 PM PST
 To: Elecraft Discussion List elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Power output low on 30 meter band
 
 Since putting together my K3 two weeks ago I had a chance to try it out on 30 
 meters today.  I tuned up my delta loop to 10 meters and then noticed that 
 the power was low.  I thought that maybe my meters were reading funny or 
 something funny about the antenna so I switched over to my Icom 756 Pro III 
 to try the same antenna.  It was dead on with a 1.1:1 SWR on the same 
 frequency of 10.106 MHz.  And, the meters for the Pro III were reading about 
 101 watts output (two different meters).
 
 So I switched the antenna back to the K3 and checked the SWR and it was about 
 the same, 1.2:1 for the same frequency.  But, the power output is only about 
 65 watts even though the power adjust knob reads 100 watts.  I tried 
 different readings and about 55 watts, the external meter power output starts 
 to flatten out compared to the digital readout of the power on the K3 (the 
 external meter is an LP-100A).
 
 All other bands show good power output.
 
 Any hints?  
 
 73, phil, K7PEH
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Power output low on 30 meter band

[Duncan Carter]

A few days ago, I repaired my K3 which had this problem as it came from 
the factory.  After following diagnostic instructions from Elecraft, 
what I found was that the band pass filter at the level that includes 
the drive to the transverter output was mis-tuned.
The following is part of my report my report to Wayne and to Elecraft 
support.  C179 and C183 are trimmer capacitors for the band pass filter 
at the level before the transceiver output.  If you don't have the 
optional transceiver output accessory, this method becomes more difficult.

C179 was peaked, I assume properly.

C183 was stuck and didn't want to turn with the alignment tool.  I used 
a jeweler's screwdriver that didn't have an insulated sheath and 
un-stuck C183.  Next, I peaked C183.  At 10.149, a cw tone is 2.3 
divisions peak on the scope; at 10.101, the cw tone is 2.1 divisions.  
Reverting to normal HF mode, 110 watts output is reached with no 
problem.  The other bands seem unchanged with normal full output, etc. 

The diagnostic process that I followed requires that you have something 
to measure the drive level at that point on 30 meters and also 40 
meters; a used a dual trace 30 MHz oscilloscope.

Another possibility is that a 8.215 MHz notch filter is mis-tuned; 
apparently this has happened before.

Let me know if you need more info.. Wayne and Elecraft support in the 
person of Gary Surrency were quite helpful.

Dunc, W5DC

Phil Hystad wrote:
 Since putting together my K3 two weeks ago I had a chance to try it out on 30 
 meters today.  I tuned up my delta loop to 10 meters and then noticed that 
 the power was low.  I thought that maybe my meters were reading funny or 
 something funny about the antenna so I switched over to my Icom 756 Pro III 
 to try the same antenna.  It was dead on with a 1.1:1 SWR on the same 
 frequency of 10.106 MHz.  And, the meters for the Pro III were reading about 
 101 watts output (two different meters).

 So I switched the antenna back to the K3 and checked the SWR and it was about 
 the same, 1.2:1 for the same frequency.  But, the power output is only about 
 65 watts even though the power adjust knob reads 100 watts.  I tried 
 different readings and about 55 watts, the external meter power output starts 
 to flatten out compared to the digital readout of the power on the K3 (the 
 external meter is an LP-100A).

 All other bands show good power output.

 Any hints?  

 73, phil, K7PEH
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[Alan Bloom]

Brett,

Those numbers are similar to what I measured on my K3.  It varies by
band, but before modification I was getting in the neighborhood of -6 dB
with preamp on and -17 dB with preamp off.  After modification I
measured +4.5 dB with preamp on and -6.5 dB with preamp off (at 10 MHz).

A 0603 resistor should be fine.  It's not dissipating significant power.

Alan N1AL


On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 22:44 -0800, Brett Howard wrote:
 Ok so I decided to do the IF mod as the P3 will be ordered when it comes
 out and I'd like the increased sensitivity.  I'm copying elecraft and K3
 support cause I wanted to ask a simple question (as well as share the
 results).  First my question, I didn't have any 13K ohm resistors in
 0805 size.  So I put an 0603 resistor on the same pads.  Will this be
 ample or should I replace it with an 0805 for power rating reasons?
 
 I made measurements before and after the modification and collected
 results which I figured I'd share. 
 
 Signal Generator was a Rhode and Schwartz (sp?) model number unknown.
 This signal generator was uncalibrated.  However the spectrum analyzer I
 was using was a very recently calibrated N9020A which our cal report
 gave a clean bill of health and an absolute accuracy of 0.009dBm at
 -50dBm.  Agilent didn't specify the accuracy at -70 but it was getting
 tighter as the amplitude went lower.  I did not engage the preamp in the
 analyzer.  
 
 I was making my measurements at -70dBm as its a common ham amplitude.
 I injected the signal at 7.040Mhz (cause I use that w/ my XG2 a lot) @
 -70dBm.  This input was verified on the spectrum analyzer at the end of
 my cable to calibrate cable losses out of the system.  I then measured
 the output at the IF OUT port at 8.215Mhz. 
 
 Before
 PreAmp off: -88.2dBm
 PreAmp on:  -77.0dBm
 
 After
 PreAmp off: -77.9dBm
 PreAmp on:  -66.9dBm
 
 Looks like there is a tad bit of loss with the PA off (7.9dB) but then
 again there is 3.1dB of gain with the PA on...  Hopefully this jives
 with intended results.  If not hopefully its a useful data point.
 
 Respectfully
 
 ~Brett (KC7OTG)


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[Brett Howard]

Ok so I decided to do the IF mod as the P3 will be ordered when it comes
out and I'd like the increased sensitivity.  I'm copying elecraft and K3
support cause I wanted to ask a simple question (as well as share the
results).  First my question, I didn't have any 13K ohm resistors in
0805 size.  So I put an 0603 resistor on the same pads.  Will this be
ample or should I replace it with an 0805 for power rating reasons?

I made measurements before and after the modification and collected
results which I figured I'd share. 

Signal Generator was a Rhode and Schwartz (sp?) model number unknown.
This signal generator was uncalibrated.  However the spectrum analyzer I
was using was a very recently calibrated N9020A which our cal report
gave a clean bill of health and an absolute accuracy of 0.009dBm at
-50dBm.  Agilent didn't specify the accuracy at -70 but it was getting
tighter as the amplitude went lower.  I did not engage the preamp in the
analyzer.  

I was making my measurements at -70dBm as its a common ham amplitude.
I injected the signal at 7.040Mhz (cause I use that w/ my XG2 a lot) @
-70dBm.  This input was verified on the spectrum analyzer at the end of
my cable to calibrate cable losses out of the system.  I then measured
the output at the IF OUT port at 8.215Mhz. 

Before
PreAmp off: -88.2dBm
PreAmp on:  -77.0dBm

After
PreAmp off: -77.9dBm
PreAmp on:  -66.9dBm

Looks like there is a tad bit of loss with the PA off (7.9dB) but then
again there is 3.1dB of gain with the PA on...  Hopefully this jives
with intended results.  If not hopefully its a useful data point.

Respectfully

~Brett (KC7OTG)

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[DM4iM]

I hook my TS-850 to the IF-output, it works fine.
Make sure your panorama-radio is not able to transmit into your K3,
e.g. use a RX-only input or modify it.

I set the TS-850 to USB when listening to LSB-sigs on 80m.

Why is this the case?

Have not yet verified if that changes when listening to higher bands.

Martin

-- 

73, DM4iM
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[Lyle Johnson]

 I hook my TS-850 to the IF-output,...
 I set the TS-850 to USB when listening to LSB-sigs on 80m.
 Why is this the case?
   

The K3 uses high-side injection on all bands except 6 meters.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Martin,

If the frequency of the LO signal applied to a mixer is higher than that of 
the incoming signal frequency, as is the case in the K3's receiver on all 
bands except 6m, then a received LSB signal will appear as a USB signal at 
the mixer's IF output.  Also a received USB signal, for example on 20m, will 
appear as a LSB signal at the mixer's IF output.

If the frequency of the LO signal is lower than that of the received signal, 
e.g. on 6m in the K3 case, this sideband inversion does not take place. A 
6m USB signal will appear as an USB signal at IF.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD



DM4iM hamra...@vr-web.de wrote on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 at 11:33 AM

I hook my TS-850 to the IF-output, it works fine.
 Make sure your panorama-radio is not able to transmit into your K3,
 e.g. use a RX-only input or modify it.

 I set the TS-850 to USB when listening to LSB-sigs on 80m.

 Why is this the case?

 Have not yet verified if that changes when listening to higher bands.

 Martin

 -- 

 73, DM4iM


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[DM4iM]

Thanks to all, this list is great.

Am 13.01.2010 15:28, schrieb Lyle Johnson:
 
 I hook my TS-850 to the IF-output,...
 I set the TS-850 to USB when listening to LSB-sigs on 80m.
 Why is this the case?
   
 
 The K3 uses high-side injection on all bands except 6 meters.
 
 73,
 
 Lyle KK7P
 


-- 

73, DM4iM
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[Alan Bloom]

You should hear whatever signals the K3 is tuned to.  I'm assuming you
are connected to the IF OUT jack of the KXV3 or KXV3A.

If you haven't done the IF output mod:
http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/IF_Output_Buffer_Gain_Mod_Rev_A.pdf
then the signal level will be lower than at the K3 antenna connector.
But with the K3 preamp on, the difference is small.  If you can clearly
hear something on the K3, then you should be able to hear it on the K2.

Alan N1AL


On Tue, 2010-01-12 at 15:05 -0600, sr...@swbell.net wrote:
   I am trying to verify the output at the IF OUT jack on the back of
 the K3. I have it connected to my K2 with the VFO set for 8215.00 and I see
 or hear no signal at all. Shouldn't I see the output from the K3? Is the
 signal that low that I won't even get a blip on the K2 receiver? Am I
 missing something? I see no menu entry for enabling the IF output.  HELP
 
 
 Stan Rife 
 W5EWA 


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[Joe Planisky]

I don't think you'll hear much of anything on a K2 at 8.215 MHz.  
That's well outside the 40m passband.  The K2 does not have general  
coverage RX.

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:05 PM, sr...@swbell.net wrote:

   I am trying to verify the output at the IF OUT jack on the back of
 the K3. I have it connected to my K2 with the VFO set for 8215.00  
 and I see
 or hear no signal at all. Shouldn't I see the output from the K3? Is  
 the
 signal that low that I won't even get a blip on the K2 receiver? Am I
 missing something? I see no menu entry for enabling the IF output.   
 HELP


 Stan Rife
 W5EWA



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[Don Wilhelm]

Stan,

The K2 cannot receive that frequency - the dial may say so, but the 
VFO/PLL has maxed out at about 7400 kHz (if you are tuning from 40 
meters) and although the dial continues to increment, the actual 
frequency will not go any higher.  Even if it did, the bandpass filters 
would probably attenuate the signal significantly.  For the same reasons 
I doubt that you can tune downward from 30 meters and get that low.
You will have to use a general coverage receiver.

73,
Don W3FPR

sr...@swbell.net wrote:
   I am trying to verify the output at the IF OUT jack on the back of
 the K3. I have it connected to my K2 with the VFO set for 8215.00 and I see
 or hear no signal at all. Shouldn't I see the output from the K3? Is the
 signal that low that I won't even get a blip on the K2 receiver? Am I
 missing something? I see no menu entry for enabling the IF output.  HELP


 Stan Rife 
 W5EWA 
   

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[srife]

I thought about that and I guess that must be the case.


Stan Rife 
W5EWA 



-Original Message-
From: Joe Planisky [mailto:jp...@jeffnet.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:57 PM
To: sr...@swbell.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

I don't think you'll hear much of anything on a K2 at 8.215 MHz.  
That's well outside the 40m passband.  The K2 does not have general  
coverage RX.

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:05 PM, sr...@swbell.net wrote:

   I am trying to verify the output at the IF OUT jack on the back of
 the K3. I have it connected to my K2 with the VFO set for 8215.00  
 and I see
 or hear no signal at all. Shouldn't I see the output from the K3? Is  
 the
 signal that low that I won't even get a blip on the K2 receiver? Am I
 missing something? I see no menu entry for enabling the IF output.   
 HELP


 Stan Rife
 W5EWA



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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/12/10
01:35:00

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] IF output

[borch]

My K2 will tune to 8125 and I can hear the IF signal of the K3.  It is weak, 
but audible.  I have the IF mod installed in my K3

AJ9Q,  Burl

- Original Message -
From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com
To: sr...@swbell.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:06:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3]  IF output

Stan,

The K2 cannot receive that frequency - the dial may say so, but the 
VFO/PLL has maxed out at about 7400 kHz (if you are tuning from 40 
meters) and although the dial continues to increment, the actual 
frequency will not go any higher.  Even if it did, the bandpass filters 
would probably attenuate the signal significantly.  For the same reasons 
I doubt that you can tune downward from 30 meters and get that low.
You will have to use a general coverage receiver.

73,
Don W3FPR

sr...@swbell.net wrote:
   I am trying to verify the output at the IF OUT jack on the back of
 the K3. I have it connected to my K2 with the VFO set for 8215.00 and I see
 or hear no signal at all. Shouldn't I see the output from the K3? Is the
 signal that low that I won't even get a blip on the K2 receiver? Am I
 missing something? I see no menu entry for enabling the IF output.  HELP


 Stan Rife 
 W5EWA 
   

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