Re: Harmonics -- WSJ opinion.

[John Woodgate]

<200102261711.jaa27...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com>, Rich Nute 
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>With thanks to Ed Jones...
>
>On Thusday, February 22, The Wall Street Journal Europe
>published an interesting opinion on the harmonic current
>emissions standard.
>
>The opinion is by Rob Hunter, a lawyer and Chairman of
>the Centre for the New Europe, a Brussels-based think 
>tank.

I think I may know a bit about the harmonics emission standard, since I
helped to write the latest big amendment, after ten years of agitating
for the need for amendment, and I am helping to write the next complete
revision. This amendment was developed *internationally*, with a US
expert from the computer and measuring instrument manufacturing sector
leading the work. For purely procedural reasons, it has been published
in CENELEC before being published by the IEC.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am sponsored for this work by a trade
association of manufacturers of professional audio and lighting
equipment.
>
>Mr. Hunter is quite critical of the EU "New Approach"
>process.  He says:
>
>"In this procedure, the EU sets vague safety and
>technical rules for everything from toys to super-
>computers -- for example, toys shall be 'safe.'  The
>EU then delegates to private standardization bodies

CEN and CENELEC are NOT 'private bodies'. ETSI is a private body.

CEN and CENELEC adopt ISO and IEC International Standards unless special
circumstances in Europe prevent that. If that is so, regional
amendments, applying in all participating countries, are introduced. 

>the drafting of detailed requirements explaining 
>what the delphic rules mean."

They NEED to be 'vague' (I prefer 'generic') so that the detailed
technical requirements can be developed by people who understand the
technical issues without unreasonable legal constraints.
>
>"The supposed advantage of this New Approach is 
>twofold.  For industry, it gets to write the detailed
>rules applying to it.  For the Commission, the New
>Approach frees it from a burdenom task; it also 
>allows the Commission to claim that it has nothing to 
>do with writing the standards, and hence cannot be 
>held responsible."

That is false. DGIII of the Commission decides which standards it will
accept as providing prima facie evidence of conformity with Directives.
It does NOT accept all the standards it's offered. The Commission
DEMANDS responsibility for determining which standards are 'notified' in
the OJEC as acceptable.
>
>"All this sounds quite above-board.  It isn't."
>
>"For one thing, the standards are not merelay a means
>of proving compliance with the underlying legislation.
>They actually determine the meaning of the law itself."

That is essentially true. The alternative is to include all the
technical requirements in the Directives themselves. That was tried and
proved impracticable. Any improvement or revision of the technical
requirements, to relax unnecessary restraints or to allow for new
technology, requires the LAW to be changed in 18 countries, which takes
YEARS.
>
>Mr. Hunter discusses "...the way these standard-setting
>bodies can be gamed by industry insiders for advantage."

This has happened, but it has been ALLOWED to happen through apathy by
industry sectors that SHOULD have participated in the standards-making
process. It can't happen if committees are properly representative.
>
>Mr. Hunter goes on to show how the New Approach process
>allows the Commission to sidestep "...WTO laws prohibiting
>'mandatory' product measures that create 'unnecessary 
>obstacles' to international trade."

They may be 'unnecessary' in his opinion: the reality may be different.
I don't think he is technically qualified to determine necessity.
>
>Mr. Hunter's opinion goes on to show that the only ones
>who benefit from the harmonic current emission standard
>are the European electricity distributors.  They "avoid
>investments in bolstering their networks against the
>theoretical harmonics risk" at the cost of manufacturers
>and consumers.
>
The risk is certainly NOT just theoretical. The failure mechanisms due
to harmonic currents are very well-understood, and are quite easy to
understand in most cases. 

Analysis of the economic issues, **internationally**, with full
participation by American interests, indicates that the lowest-cost
solution to the problems created by harmonic currents almost certainly
comprises equipment-level mitigation (as required by the EMC Directive),
site-level mitigation (as indicated in IEEE 519) and system-level
mitigation (as practised by the supply industry for around 50 years).

After several years of unproductive and very costly contention, the
international work on this subject is now becoming consensual. It is
very undesirable for old contentions to be dragged up by people who are
apparently authoritative but are woefully ill-informed.

We now KNOW why the major problem with harmonic currents in the Americas
is 

Re: Final EMC Testing In-House

[John Woodgate]

,
ggars...@us.tuv.com wrote:
>>Do any product standards actually set limits for immunity to supply
>>frequency variations?
>
>One that comes to mind (specific to Programmable Controllers [ aka PLC's])
>is EN 61131-2 (IEC 61131-2).
>
>6.3.7.1.1 (table 47) requires (inter alia ) testing incoming power AC
>frequency from 0.95 to 1.05 of the nominal.
>
>(As you may expect, the requirement is that the EUT must function
>"properly" both during and after the tests.)

Noted, thank you.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839
Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from 
tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me.

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Calibration of test equipment

[brent . dewitt]

One method I have seen used is to have a reference instrument calibrated and
then immediately use that instrument to calibrate/verify other instruments of
it's type in house.  After that process, the reference is placed back into
standard duty until the next cal cycle.  This way, at the time of calibration,
the reference had not been used for any purpose other than calibration.

Regards,

Brent DeWitt

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail communication may contain information that is proprietary,
confidential and/or privileged from disclosure under applicable law. The
information is intended to be for the use of the addressee only.
If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that use, copying, dissemination or continued possession of this
communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have any reason to believe you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail, please delete all copies of this e-mail from computer memory or storage.

Thank you.



---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Harmonics -- WSJ opinion.

[Rich Nute]

Hi John:


I must admit to several motives for posting my
message regarding the WSJ-E opinion article.

1.  I wanted our subscribers to know that the
issue rated comment in the WSJ-E, a high-
level, respected newspaper.

2.  I wanted our subscribers to know that the
technical arguments are bolstered by some
political arguments.

As for knowing that my posting would generate
further discussion... well, that is up to our
subscribers and whether they want to move from
the technical arena to the political arena!

As for your request for comment...

>   But the comment is 'non-technical' . . . can anyone in this forum offer 
>   any 'technical' arguments that would a)Back-up such a statement as 
>   Mr. Hunter's or b) FAVOR the harmonic standard? 

With respect to your first question (a) I 
believe you refer to Hunter's assertion that 
the European electricity distributors benefit
from the standard.  

I don't know that this statement is subject to
a technical argument.

With respect to your second question (b), the 
technical argument in favor of the standard is 
that triplen harmonic currents cause overheating 
of the primary of a delta-wye distribution 
transformer.  Therefore, some means must be 
provided to prevent such overheating.

There are several mechanisms for preventing such
overheating:

1.  Use a distribution transformer with a "k-
factor" rating.

2.  Use a trap (zig-zag transformer) between the
transformer and the load.

3.  Require linear loads.

There may be other mechanisms.  There is no 
technical argument for any one of the several 
mechanisms that prevent distribution
transformer overheating.  Each works.  

Pick one.  

It is probably best to "kill" the problem at
its source.  

On the other hand, it is likewise probably 
best if the electricity supplier can supply
power to any load rather than restrict the
loads to which he is willing to supply power.

Because all work, the choice is subject to
other criteria.  One major criterion is that 
of cost:  

   If you are an electricity supplier, you 
   would not be in favor of choices 1 and 2.

   If you are a product manufacturer, you
   would not be in favor of choice 3.

   If you are a consumer, you will pay for
   choices 1 and 2 through higher electric
   bills, and you will pay for choice 3
   through higher product cost.  No matter
   the choice, you pay forever, either 
   through higher electric bills or for 
   higher product costs.  If you buy lots
   of products on a continuing basis, your 
   cost may be higher than your long-term
   electric bills.  

Of course, no one has shown that unacceptable
overheating will actually occur.  Hence, 
Hunter uses the phrase "theoretical harmonics."


Best regards,
Rich






---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft

[Price, Ed]

David:

DO-160D, which has superseded the "C" version, is the spec you need to use.
It's a complicated document, with over a dozen specific test methods.
Fortunately, not all of the test methods are always required.

As for recommending a test lab, one lab does come to mind rather easily.
Send me an email off-list, and CDS will be happy to quote you on performing
the applicable methods of DO-160D!

Regards,

Ed


Ed  Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
858-505-2780 (Voice)
858-505-1583 (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis


-Original Message-
From: Dave Hutchins [mailto:hutch...@protek-tvs.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:55 AM
To: Price, Ed; 'Dan Kinney (A)'; Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Cc: Roy Lowery (A); Brian Stuckey (A)
Subject: RE: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft



All:

Can anyone tell me where I can get some devices  tested to DO-160C or D?

David Hutchins
ProTek Devices
hutch...@protek-tvs.com

-Original Message-
From:   Price, Ed [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
Sent:   Monday, February 26, 2001 9:34 AM
To: 'Dan Kinney (A)'; Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Cc: Roy Lowery (A); Brian Stuckey (A)
Subject:RE: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft


Dan:

Look at RTCA DO-160D for US commercial aircraft. I think that the FAA also
has a flock of interface standards that might have some relevance.

Ed


Ed  Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com



Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
858-505-2780 (Voice)
858-505-1583 (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis


-Original Message-
From: Dan Kinney (A) [mailto:dan.kin...@heapg.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 6:07 AM
To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Cc: Roy Lowery (A); Brian Stuckey (A)
Subject: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft



We have a possible application of some of our equipment for engine control
of crop dusting aircraft.  We have never had our equipment used on aircraft
before (to our knowledge) thus don't know if there are any regulatory issues
we need to concern ourselves with.  The application is for use in the U.S.,
at least initially.  Our equipment presently complies with the EMC Directive
for ISM and is UL approved for Hazardous Locations. It would stand to reason
there would be additional requirements for any application involving
aircraft but we don't know if this might be an issue between the installer
and the FAA or an issue for us to be concerned and involved with.

My request might be a little off topic for this group, but if anyone can
point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
Dan Kinney


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Calibration of test equipment

[Jon D. Curtis]

As I understand it the interpretation to have tracibility to your national
authority through equipment used only for calibration originated with NAMAS.
Some other accreditors have picked it up since then.

The requirement need not be that onerous.  You can calibrate your own equipment
traceably to your national authority using equipment that you send out for
calibration.  Where the instrument is cheap (multimeter) we buy an extra and
use it only for calibration.  Where it is expensive (oscope, receiver), we use
it for calibration only directly after it returns from outside calibration (or
inside tracible cal) and after we have calibrated our secondary equipment with
it we put it into regular service for the year.  If you manage your yearly
calibration cycle well this shouldn't crimp your style too much.

The key is not to have equipment in your calibration chain back to the national
authority that has been used for non-calibration purposes between the time of
its calibration and that of the secondary calibration.

The idea is to have high confidence that the tracibilty chain is intact.  If a
piece of equipment in the chain has been used daily in regular rough and tumble
testing it is seen as having a much higher probability of operating outside of
its tolerances.  In my experience the outside cal houses are pretty tough on
their gear too, so I am not sure that much is gained.

I personally think this interpretation is overly severe, but we comply with it
because we want our test reports to be accepted by authorities who think this
process is reasonable.

To directly answer your specific question about a signal generator used in
immunity:  If it is being used as an uncalibrated signal source in the
measurement and you are using a power meter or receiver for tracibility then
you can use that signal generator, even if it went off a cliff the day before.
If you are relying on the calibrated output level that the signal generator
says it is putting out, then you should not have used that instrument in
non-calibration use since its last calibration.

Jon.

"Flinders, Randall" wrote:

> Does this mean that a signal generator that is used for Radiated
> Immunity testing should not be used to calibrate Pre-Amps and Cables?
> How about Antenna Calibration?  Can you use the same receiver you use on
> the OATS to calibrate those?  I know this is a common practice with
> Commercial Test Labs.
>
> Is there guidance as to what types of equipment can be used for both lab
> use and for the calibration of other equipment?
>
> michael.sundst...@nokia.com wrote:
> >
> > I think there is a special requirement to keep the calibration equipment
> > separate from the EMC equipment. In other words the calibration equipment
> > can only be used for the calibration process and not for testing EMC.
> >
> > > Michael Sundstrom
> > > Product Test Technician EMC
> > > Nokia Mobile Phones, Dallas PCC
> > >
> > > *   Email   michael.sundst...@nokia.com
> > > %  Desk  (972) 374-1462
> > > *Mobile  (817) 917-5021
> > > * Fax  (972) 374-0901
> > amateur call:  KB5UKT
> >
> > ---
> > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> >
> > Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
> >
> > To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
> >  majord...@ieee.org
> > with the single line:
> >  unsubscribe emc-pstc
> >
> > For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> >  Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
> >  Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net
> >
> > For policy questions, send mail to:
> >  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
> >  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
> >
> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> > http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
>  Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

--
Jon D. Curtis, P.E.

Director of Engineering
Curtis-Straus LLC

One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC,
Product Safety, and Telecom Testing.
527 Great Road
Littleton, MA 01460 USA
Voice 978-486-8880  Fax 978-486-8828
email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com
WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM



--

RE: Harmonics -- WSJ opinion.

[John Juhasz]

Rich, 

I would think that you knew that this would generate discussion? 

One comment of Mr Hunter's that stood out in particular was the very
last . . . 
" . . . the only ones who benefit from the harmonic current emission
standard 
are the European electricity distributors.  They "avoid 
investments in bolstering their networks against the 
theoretical harmonics risk" at the cost of manufacturers 
and consumers." 

I would say that this senitment has been echoed by many compliance
engineers. 
But the comment is 'non-technical' . . . can anyone in this forum offer 
any 'technical' arguments that would a)Back-up such a statement as 
Mr. Hunter's or b) FAVOR the harmonic standard? 

I like to give the benefit of the doubt that the standard was created
based 
on sound technical evidence. 

John Juhasz 
Fiber Options 
Bohemia, NY 

-Original Message- 
From: Rich Nute [ mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com  ] 
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:11 PM 
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
Subject: Harmonics -- WSJ opinion. 


With thanks to Ed Jones... 

On Thusday, February 22, The Wall Street Journal Europe 
published an interesting opinion on the harmonic current 
emissions standard. 

The opinion is by Rob Hunter, a lawyer and Chairman of 
the Centre for the New Europe, a Brussels-based think 
tank. 

Mr. Hunter is quite critical of the EU "New Approach" 
process.  He says: 

"In this procedure, the EU sets vague safety and 
technical rules for everything from toys to super- 
computers -- for example, toys shall be 'safe.'  The 
EU then delegates to private standardization bodies 
the drafting of detailed requirements explaining 
what the delphic rules mean." 

"The supposed advantage of this New Approach is 
twofold.  For industry, it gets to write the detailed 
rules applying to it.  For the Commission, the New 
Approach frees it from a burdenom task; it also 
allows the Commission to claim that it has nothing to 
do with writing the standards, and hence cannot be 
held responsible." 

"All this sounds quite above-board.  It isn't." 

"For one thing, the standards are not merelay a means 
of proving compliance with the underlying legislation. 
They actually determine the meaning of the law itself." 

Mr. Hunter discusses "...the way these standard-setting 
bodies can be gamed by industry insiders for advantage." 

Mr. Hunter goes on to show how the New Approach process 
allows the Commission to sidestep "...WTO laws prohibiting 
'mandatory' product measures that create 'unnecessary 
obstacles' to international trade." 

Mr. Hunter's opinion goes on to show that the only ones 
who benefit from the harmonic current emission standard 
are the European electricity distributors.  They "avoid 
investments in bolstering their networks against the 
theoretical harmonics risk" at the cost of manufacturers 
and consumers. 


Best regards, 
Rich 







--- 
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety 
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. 

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
  

To cancel your subscription, send mail to: 
 majord...@ieee.org 
with the single line: 
 unsubscribe emc-pstc 

For help, send mail to the list administrators: 
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org 
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net 

For policy questions, send mail to: 
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org 
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.rcic.com/    click on "Virtual
Conference Hall," 

Re: Calibration of test equipment

[John Woodgate]

, Brian
Harlowe  wrote:
>I seem to have hit a raw nerve by suggesting that emc test equipment should
>be NAMAS calibrated. But surely some cost for calibration should come into
>the equation. Surely no professional test engineer would use test equipment
>that had not been calibrated at least annually!!!

The objection is to the 'expensive' word 'NAMAS'. Calibration, mainly by
less costly means, is certainly necessary.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839
Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from 
tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me.

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft

[Dave Hutchins]

All:

Can anyone tell me where I can get some devices  tested to DO-160C or D?

David Hutchins
ProTek Devices
hutch...@protek-tvs.com

-Original Message-
From:   Price, Ed [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
Sent:   Monday, February 26, 2001 9:34 AM
To: 'Dan Kinney (A)'; Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Cc: Roy Lowery (A); Brian Stuckey (A)
Subject:RE: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft


Dan:

Look at RTCA DO-160D for US commercial aircraft. I think that the FAA also
has a flock of interface standards that might have some relevance.

Ed


Ed  Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
858-505-2780 (Voice)
858-505-1583 (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis


-Original Message-
From: Dan Kinney (A) [mailto:dan.kin...@heapg.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 6:07 AM
To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Cc: Roy Lowery (A); Brian Stuckey (A)
Subject: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft



We have a possible application of some of our equipment for engine control
of crop dusting aircraft.  We have never had our equipment used on aircraft
before (to our knowledge) thus don't know if there are any regulatory issues
we need to concern ourselves with.  The application is for use in the U.S.,
at least initially.  Our equipment presently complies with the EMC Directive
for ISM and is UL approved for Hazardous Locations. It would stand to reason
there would be additional requirements for any application involving
aircraft but we don't know if this might be an issue between the installer
and the FAA or an issue for us to be concerned and involved with.

My request might be a little off topic for this group, but if anyone can
point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
Dan Kinney


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Calibration of test equipment

[Flinders, Randall]

Does this mean that a signal generator that is used for Radiated
Immunity testing should not be used to calibrate Pre-Amps and Cables? 
How about Antenna Calibration?  Can you use the same receiver you use on
the OATS to calibrate those?  I know this is a common practice with
Commercial Test Labs.  

Is there guidance as to what types of equipment can be used for both lab
use and for the calibration of other equipment?

michael.sundst...@nokia.com wrote:
> 
> I think there is a special requirement to keep the calibration equipment
> separate from the EMC equipment. In other words the calibration equipment
> can only be used for the calibration process and not for testing EMC.
> 
> > Michael Sundstrom
> > Product Test Technician EMC
> > Nokia Mobile Phones, Dallas PCC
> >
> > *   Email   michael.sundst...@nokia.com
> > %  Desk  (972) 374-1462
> > *Mobile  (817) 917-5021
> > * Fax  (972) 374-0901
> amateur call:  KB5UKT
> 
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
> 
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
>  Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

CPSTC meeting for March 7, 2001

[RichardG]

Greetings,

For those of you who are interested in attending the Colorado Product Safety
Technical Committee (CPSTC) meeting, please read on.

Quick summary

1. Next meeting: Wednesday, March 7, 2001   
   Location:Exabyte, 
1685 38th Street
Boulder, CO
USA
   Start time will be 6:30pm.

2. Agenda for year 2001

3. Review the progress of the workshop presentation by Ron Duffy and Richard
Georgerian for submittal to the IEEE EMC Montreal committee.

4. Review the progress of Bill LaFollette regarding his transformer
technical paper.

If you plan on attending, please let me know so I can plan accordingly with
the restaurant. Guests are welcomed and encouraged to attend our first
meeting of the new year.

For more details please visit the Product Safety News web site:  
 http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/index.htm

 
Thanks in advance.

Richard Georgerian
Technical Committee 8 Product Safety (TC-8), Vice-chair
Colorado Product Safety Technical Committee (CPSTC), Chair
Product Compliance Engineer
Exabyte
1685 38th Street
Boulder, CO 80301
USA
tel.: 303-417-7537  fax: 303-417-5710   email:
 

Harmonics -- WSJ opinion.

[Rich Nute]

With thanks to Ed Jones...

On Thusday, February 22, The Wall Street Journal Europe
published an interesting opinion on the harmonic current
emissions standard.

The opinion is by Rob Hunter, a lawyer and Chairman of
the Centre for the New Europe, a Brussels-based think 
tank.

Mr. Hunter is quite critical of the EU "New Approach"
process.  He says:

"In this procedure, the EU sets vague safety and
technical rules for everything from toys to super-
computers -- for example, toys shall be 'safe.'  The
EU then delegates to private standardization bodies
the drafting of detailed requirements explaining 
what the delphic rules mean."

"The supposed advantage of this New Approach is 
twofold.  For industry, it gets to write the detailed
rules applying to it.  For the Commission, the New
Approach frees it from a burdenom task; it also 
allows the Commission to claim that it has nothing to 
do with writing the standards, and hence cannot be 
held responsible."

"All this sounds quite above-board.  It isn't."

"For one thing, the standards are not merelay a means
of proving compliance with the underlying legislation.
They actually determine the meaning of the law itself."

Mr. Hunter discusses "...the way these standard-setting
bodies can be gamed by industry insiders for advantage."

Mr. Hunter goes on to show how the New Approach process
allows the Commission to sidestep "...WTO laws prohibiting
'mandatory' product measures that create 'unnecessary 
obstacles' to international trade."

Mr. Hunter's opinion goes on to show that the only ones
who benefit from the harmonic current emission standard
are the European electricity distributors.  They "avoid
investments in bolstering their networks against the
theoretical harmonics risk" at the cost of manufacturers
and consumers.


Best regards,
Rich







---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Shipping Equipment with Batteries Installed

[WOODS]

Some SRD limits were set with the assumption that the devices would not be
located near navigational equipment that operate in the band. For example,
SRD limits in the 9-135 kHz band were set with the assumption that the SRD
was at least 100 m away from a navigation receiver operating in that band.
That would not be the case onboard an aircraft or ship.

Richard Woods

--
From:  Kevin Harris [SMTP:harr...@dscltd.com]
Sent:  Monday, February 26, 2001 11:47 AM
To:  EMC-PSTC (E-mail)
Subject:  Shipping Equipment with Batteries Installed


Hello Group,

Does anybody know of any regulatory restriction of shipping an SRD with an
on time of much less than 0.1% into the US and Canadian markets with it's
batteries installed? We have had a request from one of our clients to do so.
I would hazard a guess that should the cargo go by air then the airlines
might not like it. Can anybody think of  other issues that might arise from
this.


Best Regards,


Kevin Harris
Manager, Approval Services
Digital Security Controls
3301 Langstaff Road
Concord, Ontario
CANADA
L4K 4L2

Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378
Fax +1 905 760 3020

Email: harr...@dscltd.com  

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Calibration of test equipment

[Lfresearch]

Brian,

my concern with your statement would be suggesting use of a NAMAS accredited 
lab Why not A2LA or other body.

I know of a number of great cal labs with no accreditation

Derek Walton

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Shipping Equipment with Batteries Installed

[Kevin Harris]

Hello Group,

Does anybody know of any regulatory restriction of shipping an SRD with an
on time of much less than 0.1% into the US and Canadian markets with it's
batteries installed? We have had a request from one of our clients to do so.
I would hazard a guess that should the cargo go by air then the airlines
might not like it. Can anybody think of  other issues that might arise from
this.


Best Regards,


Kevin Harris
Manager, Approval Services
Digital Security Controls
3301 Langstaff Road
Concord, Ontario
CANADA
L4K 4L2

Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378
Fax +1 905 760 3020

Email: harr...@dscltd.com  

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Compliance Statement per TCAM Recommendation

[Gorodetsky, Vitaly]

I would like to thank everyone, particularly Richard Woods, who took time to
respond.

Best Regards,
Vitaly  Gorodetsky



-Original Message-
From:   Gorodetsky, Vitaly [SMTP:vgorodet...@canoga.com]
Sent:   Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:27 PM
To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Subject:Compliance Statement per TCAM Recommendation 


Dear members and colleagues in EU:

As you are aware, TCAM has recently advised to include in user
manuals a conformity statement in the languages of every country of EU/EFTA
targeted for sales (potentially 11 languages).
I would greatly appreciate if you would help by translating the
following statement in those languages.  Everyone here dealing with
Telecommunication Terminal & Network Equipment would greatly benefit from
your contribution.
"Hereby, {name of manufacturer} declares that this {type of
equipment & Model Number} is in compliance with the essential requirements
and other relevant provisions of Directive 99/5/EC.  This product is
intended for use in all EU and EFTA member states".
NOTE:  The German, French, Spanish, and Finnish translations are
already available - courtesy of Richard Wood.  Thanks, Richard.
Best Regards and THANKS in advance,
Vitaly  Gorodetsky
Sr. Compliance Engineer Direct: (818) 678-3840
Canoga Perkins Corp.Main:   (818) 718-6300
20600 Prairie StreetFAX:(818) 678-3740
Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008   e-mail:
vgorodet...@canoga.com 
 >
The suitability of this information for making decision is solely
with the
reader

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical
Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
majord...@ieee.org   with the single
line:
unsubscribe emc-pstc
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Jim Bacher:  jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
 
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Calibration of test equipment

[Michael . Sundstrom]

I think there is a special requirement to keep the calibration equipment
separate from the EMC equipment. In other words the calibration equipment
can only be used for the calibration process and not for testing EMC.

> Michael Sundstrom
> Product Test Technician EMC
> Nokia Mobile Phones, Dallas PCC
> 
> *   Email   michael.sundst...@nokia.com
> %  Desk  (972) 374-1462
> *Mobile  (817) 917-5021
> * Fax  (972) 374-0901
amateur call:  KB5UKT

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Calibration of test equipment

[Gorodetsky, Vitaly]

Schleppers of the world, unite !

Vitaly  

-Original Message-
From:   Price, Ed [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
Sent:   Monday, February 26, 2001 7:37 AM
To: 'Brian Harlowe'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject:RE: Calibration of test equipment


Brian:

I calibrate my spectrum analyzer after every time I drop it.

Ed 


-Original Message-
From: Brian Harlowe [mailto:brian.harl...@vgscientific.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:54 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: Calibration of test equipment



I seem to have hit a raw nerve by suggesting that emc test equipment
should
be NAMAS calibrated. But surely some cost for calibration should
come into
the equation. Surely no professional test engineer would use test
equipment
that had not been calibrated at least annually!!!

Brian Harlowe
Thermo V.G. Scientific
Tel +44 (0)1342 327211
Fax +44 (0)1342 315074



Ed  Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
858-505-2780 (Voice)
858-505-1583 (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft

[Andrew Carson]

Dan

There is a long list of FAA requirements for equipment and components used
within aircraft. It been a few years since I looked into this subject and I no
longer have a soft copy of the documents or the URL on the FAA web site where it
is located. From what I remember engine components are most definitely on the
list and it the equipment manufacture who has to apply for the FAA certification
/ approval. Unfortunately also from what I remember it was quite a chore to find
the relevant FAA document, but it covers every thing from approval process,
requirements and times which fall under the scope. At the end of the day our
product never got past the bid stage, so I had no reason to keep the info.

Hope this helps.

"Dan Kinney (A)" wrote:

> We have a possible application of some of our equipment for engine control
> of crop dusting aircraft.  We have never had our equipment used on aircraft
> before (to our knowledge) thus don't know if there are any regulatory issues
> we need to concern ourselves with.  The application is for use in the U.S.,
> at least initially.  Our equipment presently complies with the EMC Directive
> for ISM and is UL approved for Hazardous Locations. It would stand to reason
> there would be additional requirements for any application involving
> aircraft but we don't know if this might be an issue between the installer
> and the FAA or an issue for us to be concerned and involved with.
>
> My request might be a little off topic for this group, but if anyone can
> point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
> Dan Kinney
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
>  Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

--

Andrew Carson - Product Safety Engineer
Xyratex Engineering Laboratory
Tele 023 92496855 Fax 023 92496014



---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft

[Price, Ed]

Dan:

Look at RTCA DO-160D for US commercial aircraft. I think that the FAA also
has a flock of interface standards that might have some relevance.

Ed


Ed  Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
858-505-2780 (Voice)
858-505-1583 (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis


-Original Message-
From: Dan Kinney (A) [mailto:dan.kin...@heapg.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 6:07 AM
To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Cc: Roy Lowery (A); Brian Stuckey (A)
Subject: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft



We have a possible application of some of our equipment for engine control
of crop dusting aircraft.  We have never had our equipment used on aircraft
before (to our knowledge) thus don't know if there are any regulatory issues
we need to concern ourselves with.  The application is for use in the U.S.,
at least initially.  Our equipment presently complies with the EMC Directive
for ISM and is UL approved for Hazardous Locations. It would stand to reason
there would be additional requirements for any application involving
aircraft but we don't know if this might be an issue between the installer
and the FAA or an issue for us to be concerned and involved with.

My request might be a little off topic for this group, but if anyone can
point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
Dan Kinney


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft

[Brumbaugh, David]

Dan,
You should start with RTCA D0-160D for applicable EMC, Lightning, ESD and other 
requirements. You can purchase a copy at
http://www.rtca.org/
DB 

-Original Message-
From: Dan Kinney (A) [mailto:dan.kin...@heapg.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 6:07 AM
To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Cc: Roy Lowery (A); Brian Stuckey (A)
Subject: Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft



We have a possible application of some of our equipment for engine control
of crop dusting aircraft.  We have never had our equipment used on aircraft
before (to our knowledge) thus don't know if there are any regulatory issues
we need to concern ourselves with.  The application is for use in the U.S.,
at least initially.  Our equipment presently complies with the EMC Directive
for ISM and is UL approved for Hazardous Locations. It would stand to reason
there would be additional requirements for any application involving
aircraft but we don't know if this might be an issue between the installer
and the FAA or an issue for us to be concerned and involved with.

My request might be a little off topic for this group, but if anyone can
point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
Dan Kinney


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Final EMC Testing In-House

[ggarside]

>Do any product standards actually set limits for immunity to supply
>frequency variations?

One that comes to mind (specific to Programmable Controllers [ aka PLC's])
is EN 61131-2 (IEC 61131-2).

6.3.7.1.1 (table 47) requires (inter alia ) testing incoming power AC
frequency from 0.95 to 1.05 of the nominal.

(As you may expect, the requirement is that the EUT must function
"properly" both during and after the tests.)



best regards, glyn


Glyn R. Garside

Notice: This message is confidential and intended for the use of the
intended recipient(s) only. If this e-mail was sent to you in error please
notify the originator at the address above & delete the message without
reading its contents.




John Woodgate   


on.co.uk>cc: 
"'marti...@appliedbiosystems.com'" 
Sent by: , 
"'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'"  
owner-emc-pst  

c...@ieee.org   Subject: Re: Final EMC Testing 
In-House




02/23/2001  

05:00   

Please  

respond to  

John Woodgate   










<01c09d74.1acbb9a0.chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk>, Chris Chileshe
 wrote:
>If 1), then I believe you have covered all the tests, assuming supply
frequency
>variations are captured in "Voltage fluctuations."

Do any product standards actually set limits for immunity to supply
frequency variations?










---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Calibration of test equipment

[Price, Ed]

Brian:

I calibrate my spectrum analyzer after every time I drop it.

Ed 


-Original Message-
From: Brian Harlowe [mailto:brian.harl...@vgscientific.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:54 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: Calibration of test equipment



I seem to have hit a raw nerve by suggesting that emc test equipment should
be NAMAS calibrated. But surely some cost for calibration should come into
the equation. Surely no professional test engineer would use test equipment
that had not been calibrated at least annually!!!

Brian Harlowe
Thermo V.G. Scientific
Tel +44 (0)1342 327211
Fax +44 (0)1342 315074



Ed  Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
858-505-2780 (Voice)
858-505-1583 (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

RE: Air Flow Meters

[Kurt Mikolajewski]

Joe,

One product I have found that uses wire probes is the ATM-24 from Cambridge
AccuSence, Inc.

Regards,

Kurt Mikolajewski
Catena Networks
Voice:  (613) 599-6430,  x8551
Voice  (Internal):  8551
Email: kmiko...@catena.com


-Original Message-
From: Joe Finlayson [mailto:jfinlay...@telica.com]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:03 PM
To: 'EMC PSTC'; 'NEBS Newsgroup'
Subject: RE: Air Flow Meters




OK, thanks for all the replies.  It appears I am in search of a Hot
Wire Anemometer.  I've found several on the web, but all seem to use a
telescoping probe for measurement, probably for air ducts.  Does anyone know
of a model that uses a wire for measurement so I can affix it to a modular
plug in card, thus sealing the chassis.  My goal is to measure air flow
rates in each of 21 slots while the cards are installed (thus sealing the
chassis for realistic air flow).

Thx,


Joe

>  -Original Message-
> From: Joe Finlayson  
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 8:41 AM
> To:   'EMC PSTC'; 'NEBS Newsgroup'
> Subject:  Air Flow Meters
> 
> 
>   I'm interested in doing an air flow analysis on a per-slot basis for
> a modular chassis.  Can anyone share their experience in using their
> favorite test tools for this function.  One of my colleagues had mentioned
> that he recalls the use of a thermocouple-type lead that was used at his
> previous place of employment that measured air flow.  Any knowledge of
> this type of product would be greatly appreciated as well.
> 
> Thx,
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> *
>  << OLE Object: Picture (Metafile) >> 
> 
> Joe Finlayson
> Manager, Compliance Engineering
> Telica, Inc.
> 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100
> Marlboro, MA 01752
> Tel:  (508) 804-8212
> Fax:  (508) 480-0922
> Email:jfinlay...@telica.com
> Web:  www.telica.com
> 

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Jim Bacher:  jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Re: Calibration of test equipment

[Pryor McGinnis]

At the least, I would expect the test eqipment parameters/characteristics to
be checked via other test equipment that is in current calibration traceable
to NIST or NAMAS.  This check would require a documented procedure.

- Original Message -
From: Brian Harlowe 
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 3:53 AM
Subject: Calibration of test equipment


>
> I seem to have hit a raw nerve by suggesting that emc test equipment
should
> be NAMAS calibrated. But surely some cost for calibration should come into
> the equation. Surely no professional test engineer would use test
equipment
> that had not been calibrated at least annually!!!
>
> Brian Harlowe
> Thermo V.G. Scientific
> Tel +44 (0)1342 327211
> Fax +44 (0)1342 315074
>
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
>  Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
>  Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
>


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Application of equipment in U.S. aircraft

[Dan Kinney (A)]

We have a possible application of some of our equipment for engine control
of crop dusting aircraft.  We have never had our equipment used on aircraft
before (to our knowledge) thus don't know if there are any regulatory issues
we need to concern ourselves with.  The application is for use in the U.S.,
at least initially.  Our equipment presently complies with the EMC Directive
for ISM and is UL approved for Hazardous Locations. It would stand to reason
there would be additional requirements for any application involving
aircraft but we don't know if this might be an issue between the installer
and the FAA or an issue for us to be concerned and involved with.

My request might be a little off topic for this group, but if anyone can
point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
Dan Kinney


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org

[Steve Austin]

John,

Try the UK Radiocommunications Agency at www.radio.gov.uk.

Regards 

Steve Austin
Cass Industries Limited
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Juhasz 
  To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' 
  Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 8:47 PM
  Subject: RTT&E




  Hi all . . . 

  Does anyone have a link to the RTT&E? 

  Thanks. 

  John A. Juhasz 
  Product Qualification & 
  Compliance Engineer 

  Fiber Options, Inc. 
  80 Orville Dr. 
  Suite 102 
  Bohemia, NY 11716  USA 

  Tel: 631-419-2324 (direct) 
  Fax: 631-567-8322 

Re: EU Automotive Standards

[h . knudsen]

Hello Bill,
You are correct, the EU directive is 95/54/EC,the directive text includes
all requirements concerning EMC requirements no specific standards apply:

395L0054
Commission Directive 95/54/EC of 31 October 1995 adapting to technical
progress Council Directive 72/245/EEC on the approximation of the laws of
the Member States relating to the suppression of radio interference produced
by spark-ignition engines fitted to motor vehicles and amending Directive
70/156/EEC on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to
the type-approval of motor vehicles and their trailers
Official Journal L 266 , 08/11/1995 p. 0001 - 0066

You can get the text from:
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1995/en_395L0054.html

If you want the figures as well you must buy Official Journal L 266 ,
08/11/1995.

You may order Official Journal from http://eur-op.eu.int/general/en/s-ad.htm

Best regards 

Helge Knudsen
Test & Approval
Niros Telecommunication
Hirsemarken 5
DK-3520 Farum
Tlf +45 44 34 22 51
Fax +45 44 99 28 08
email h.knud...@niros.com



-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Bill Ronzio [mailto:bill.ron...@flextronics.com]
Sendt: 23. februar 2001 16:28
Til: emc-p...@ieee.org
Emne: EU Automotive Standards



To all,

Does anyone know which Directive and / or standard need be applied to a
vehicle fire suppression system and controls that is mounted to a vehicle.  

This system detects gas and fire with strategically placed sensors and
dispenses the fire suppression at the needed location. 

I've been told that the directive is 95/54/EC.  Not sure if this is correct
and I'm not sure which standards apply. 

Thanks,

Bill

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Jim Bacher:  jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"

Calibration of test equipment

[Brian Harlowe]

I seem to have hit a raw nerve by suggesting that emc test equipment should
be NAMAS calibrated. But surely some cost for calibration should come into
the equation. Surely no professional test engineer would use test equipment
that had not been calibrated at least annually!!!

Brian Harlowe
Thermo V.G. Scientific
Tel +44 (0)1342 327211
Fax +44 (0)1342 315074


---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
 Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"