Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
At 01:01 AM 7/24/2009, you wrote: If they are writing directly to you, they are writing off list. It is really bad form to post private email replies to a mailing list, and yes you really do appear to want to keep this going and going. If the emails are coming off list, keep your replies off list. Mark Is not very funny to answer a stupid who insults you and puts you on ban list so your answer bounces back... Strange way to have fun for some weird people. I'm replying here, so everyone else can know wich kind of people participate, this kind of info may be usable for some others, at least try to help people to avoid some members who only want to make others waste their time. I think it's pretty obvious who's the time waster. Mark -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I think it's pretty obvious who's the time waster. I think the witty remarks are being lost in the translation, cause thats good stuff right there. Terry On Fri Jul 24 6:25 , 'Mark Wendt (Contractor)' mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil sent: At 01:01 AM 7/24/2009, you wrote: If they are writing directly to you, they are writing off list. It is really bad form to post private email replies to a mailing list, and yes you really do appear to want to keep this going and going. If the emails are coming off list, keep your replies off list. Mark Is not very funny to answer a stupid who insults you and puts you on ban list so your answer bounces back... Strange way to have fun for some weird people. I'm replying here, so everyone else can know wich kind of people participate, this kind of info may be usable for some others, at least try to help people to avoid some members who only want to make others waste their time. I think it's pretty obvious who's the time waster. Mark -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
At 10:44 PM 7/22/2009, you wrote: El 20/07/2009 11:41 a.m., Chris Radek escribio': On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:24:29AM -0300, Richard Acosta wrote: I really don't want to keep this going and going This does not appear to be true. Chris Not while there are people writing emails to me directly to talk nonsense and insulting, people who never intervened to offer help but just intrude with irrelevant personal stuff. If they are writing directly to you, they are writing off list. It is really bad form to post private email replies to a mailing list, and yes you really do appear to want to keep this going and going. If the emails are coming off list, keep your replies off list. Mark -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
El 23/07/2009 08:08 a.m., Mark Wendt (Contractor) escribió: At 10:44 PM 7/22/2009, you wrote: El 20/07/2009 11:41 a.m., Chris Radek escribio': On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:24:29AM -0300, Richard Acosta wrote: I really don't want to keep this going and going This does not appear to be true. Chris Not while there are people writing emails to me directly to talk nonsense and insulting, people who never intervened to offer help but just intrude with irrelevant personal stuff. If they are writing directly to you, they are writing off list. It is really bad form to post private email replies to a mailing list, and yes you really do appear to want to keep this going and going. If the emails are coming off list, keep your replies off list. Mark Is not very funny to answer a stupid who insults you and puts you on ban list so your answer bounces back... Strange way to have fun for some weird people. I'm replying here, so everyone else can know wich kind of people participate, this kind of info may be usable for some others, at least try to help people to avoid some members who only want to make others waste their time. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Chris, thanks or your time on writing, but you shouldn't take so much time to explain that people is not perfect, and programas can barely be bug free. I repeat (again) my problem is not so much with EMC people for making the effort, but with some of those who only can fill their mouth(fingers) with charges and claim you didn't you do but they can barely read and understand a request at least to acknowledge what they claim has already been explained on the request. I really don't want to keep this going and going, but recently a very dumb person wrote to me with just the intention to insult. That person has been one of those who didn't read but think he can accuse for something he is not capable of. (reason) That person represents exactly what i've been complaining of. Thanks for your time again Chris and best regards. El 08/07/2009 04:55 a.m., Chris Morley escribió: Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 00:30:22 -0300 From: eyela...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43 I have bough a board, directed by EMC people. I am not dissapointed with MEsa, i'm dissapointed with the people who advised me. In my country, when */you/* direct someone to buy/do something that gives /*you*/ _.OR._ another an unjustified profit while the buyer/customer/doer gets a dissadvantage /*YOU*/ are responsible. That's called fraud and /*you*/ go to jail. Richard First this is all my personal opinion not the EMC group's. Is an apology you are looking for? I am a member of EMC's development. I, personally am sorry that your experience with EMC was less then what you hoped. I can assure you no one was trying to pull a fast one on you. Certainly no one was trying to fraud you. The hostmot2 software was and is very new. When the person who writes the software tests it it is fairly easy to miss bugs because the person tends to use it as he intended. The more it is used by other people (especially non programmers) the more these are flushed out. As Developers we support this by fixing them as best and fast as we can. Now programmers (as a rule) are just terrible about documentation. Docs are boring - new features are fun. Actually the docs are way way better now then even a year ago, as far as being up to date, correct and usable. But they are just like the software / programmers. When you write them they make sense to you but you knew what you meant! On top of that, in a rapidly developing project it's pretty easy to have the docs (usually just slightly) out of date. We are not perfect - we just try to do our best. On our side, yes maybe we need to evaluate how we release or advertise the state of our software. In fact we have already discussed it in general, to avoid problems. The real problem comes that we think it is right/ bug free because we have tested / used it . But the software is complicated and flexible- we need more people to test / use it. We don't pay people to test. I'm pretty sure profit companies do. So we release it. If and when problems come up we fix them. In most cases the problems that come up are obscure / minor anyways. Usually this works very well-sometimes not so well. I understand it can be very frustrating, it is frustrating for us too- we want people to have success and fun with EMC! But no one likes to be 'beat-up' over these problems, especially if we are not paid to put up with it. We do this because we like the challenge, or like to give back, or like to tinker. So Richard again I am sorry things worked out so badly for you. If you still want help with using the mesa board and EMC we can help but you have to stop the negativity now. Your point is across now To everyone else: We got our point across too - lets move on to some positive energy. If things need changing to help a new person out then lets hear it or volunteer to help do it. If there is problems or disappointments lets get to the point, keep the negativity to the minimum, And lets fix it! I think what this situation is really saying is that EMC is getting heard about- now it's not just the gurus and power tinkers that want to use it, regular people who don't want to invest the time to learn why something works they just want to use it. As far as I'm concerned I say welcome- we'll try to help. Chris Morley _ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:24:29AM -0300, Richard Acosta wrote: I really don't want to keep this going and going This does not appear to be true. Chris -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
No problem for me, but it seems there is a lot of people not reading completely .OR./.AND. correctly what i wrote. Best regards. El 08/07/2009 06:21 a.m., Sven Wesley escribió: Both sides have given their opinions. For the second time, let this go now. Please? Regards, Sven 2009/7/8 Leslie Newell les.new...@fastmail.co.uk I just looked back though al of your posts in this thread. They are all about problems with the operating system, not EMC. Why are you blaming the EMC guys? If you bought some Windows software then found Windows didn't like your computer, would you blame the suppliers of the software? ... -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Is an apology you are looking for? Is .NOT. I'm just telling everyone(over and over) who says i had .NOT. read manuals, .AND. didn't asked help following protocols, and a lot of etc... that was .NOT. my fault, i did what i always do, fist read docs then make my decission, then if something does not work, ask for help. .AND. i have found some people who likes to put blame on others without even stop to read, not only what i wrote, but neither the manual i refferenced.(1 year ago) BUT!... i would like some kind of that (apologise) from people who can only read a single sentence and think the whole paragraph meaning is there. I know that the people behind EMC development (or at least some of them) did and do read and think correctly, but there seems to be a lot of this list readers/writers who can't stop to think a little bit about what they read .AND. .OR. where things point to. Just trying to end this. Best regards. I am a member of EMC's development. I, personally am sorry that your experience with EMC was less then what you hoped. I can assure you no one was trying to pull a fast one on you. Certainly no one was trying to fraud you. The hostmot2 software was and is very new. When the person who writes the software tests it it is fairly easy to miss bugs because the person tends to use it as he intended. The more it is used by other people (especially non programmers) the more these are flushed out. As Developers we support this by fixing them as best and fast as we can. Now programmers (as a rule) are just terrible about documentation. Docs are boring - new features are fun. Actually the docs are way way better now then even a year ago, as far as being up to date, correct and usable. But they are just like the software / programmers. When you write them they make sense to you but you knew what you meant! On top of that, in a rapidly developing project it's pretty easy to have the docs (usually just slightly) out of date. We are not perfect - we just try to do our best. On our side, yes maybe we need to evaluate how we release or advertise the state of our software. In fact we have already discussed it in general, to avoid problems. The real problem comes that we think it is right/ bug free because we have tested / used it . But the software is complicated and flexible- we need more people to test / use it. We don't pay people to test. I'm pretty sure profit companies do. So we release it. If and when problems come up we fix them. In most cases the problems that come up are obscure / minor anyways. Usually this works very well-sometimes not so well. I understand it can be very frustrating, it is frustrating for us too- we want people to have success and fun with EMC! But no one likes to be 'beat-up' over these problems, especially if we are not paid to put up with it. We do this because we like the challenge, or like to give back, or like to tinker. So Richard again I am sorry things worked out so badly for you. If you still want help with using the mesa board and EMC we can help but you have to stop the negativity now. Your point is across now To everyone else: We got our point across too - lets move on to some positive energy. If things need changing to help a new person out then lets hear it or volunteer to help do it. If there is problems or disappointments lets get to the point, keep the negativity to the minimum, And lets fix it! I think what this situation is really saying is that EMC is getting heard about- now it's not just the gurus and power tinkers that want to use it, regular people who don't want to invest the time to learn why something works they just want to use it. As far as I'm concerned I say welcome- we'll try to help. Chris Morley _ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
El 08/07/2009 06:13 a.m., Leslie Newell escribió: I just looked back though al of your posts in this thread. They are all about problems with the operating system, not EMC. Why are you blaming the EMC guys? If you bought some Windows software then found Windows didn't like your computer, would you blame the suppliers of the software? Well... not, you're only reading the last issue and i'm talking about a lot of issues i had to suffer from the beggining. When i bought my board, there was already other people with a similar one working, and one of that people was the one who sent me the correct files to use. .AND. When i speak about EMC manual and the mistakes about the driver and firmware and commands ussed and etc, etc... i'm not talking about Linux, i'm talking about the great mistakes i made and the ammount of time spent because i followed that directions that were wrong and did'nt find not even 1 sentence about that until some people started the laughter because i was trying to use deprecated commands(old driver) with new driveS So, as i said before to other people, please, don't read only one part, read the whole thing and try to think and understand, because this last paragraph i have written it several times on this same looong living thread. Regards. FWIW I recently purchased a 7i20 for my lathe and it is running fine. Yes I did have to spend some time trawling the linuxcnc website for the relevant info but apart from that it pretty much works as described. Les Richard Acosta wrote: I have bough a board, directed by EMC people. I am not dissapointed with MEsa, i'm dissapointed with the people who advised me. -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I bought a card that EMC told me was fully supported and functional, the only reason i did it was because that was awritten in manuals and EMC people told it was supported. I cannot blame MESA, they sold me what they said, EMC directed me to buy that board with false statements. El 06/07/2009 10:42 p.m., Jake Anderson escribió: Richard Acosta wrote: That's the kind of answer i have found the most here. I'm the customer asking for support and i am very dissapointed with your support. Thats it right there. You aren't a customer, you are a peer. Did you pay for EMC? Did you pay or offer to pay any of the devs for support? When people say get a refund they mean get all the money you spent on EMC back (keeping in mind that EMC is not MESA). -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I have bough a board, directed by EMC people. I am not dissapointed with MEsa, i'm dissapointed with the people who advised me. In my country, when */you/* direct someone to buy/do something that gives /*you*/ _.OR._ another an unjustified profit while the buyer/customer/doer gets a dissadvantage /*YOU*/ are responsible. That's called fraud and /*you*/ go to jail. El 07/07/2009 08:42 a.m., John Thornton escribió: I haven't seen a check yet from you... to be a customer you have to purchase something from a vendor. When you receive something for free you are not a customer... John On 6 Jul 2009 at 18:31, Richard Acosta wrote: That's the kind of answer i have found the most here. I'm the customer asking for support and i am very dissapointed with your support. -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Richard, quoting from one of your earlier mails: Thanks to everyone who tryed to help, thanks to everyone behind such a great project. Dito! I had a bit more success than you had with the support from this list. I had some problems with the Mesa HM2 configuration files that were solved thanks to this list. I know there is a lot of people with functional machines, nicely done retrofittings, etc... but... Was all that applied to the industry, was all that applied to a real productive environment? o was as it seems applied to hobbyst environments where everything can work partially? My machine is a production machine and it is being used on a daily base. There are some limitations (like having only 8 palleting positions ;-) ) but I learned to live with those. Even commercial production machines have limitations. I have seen more LinuxCNC production machines, like a pipe bending machine, and I am now in the process of looking at EMC2 to control a plasma pipe cutter (to cut holes and 'V' shaped ends). The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. I bought a card that EMC told me was fully supported and functional, the only reason i did it was because that was awritten in manuals and EMC people told it was supported. There is no EMC to tell you what is fully supported. Also there is no fully support. EMC is an open source project kept alive since 2001 (as far as I can remember). These guys did a good job of maintaining EMC and supporting people that join the mailing lists. Meanwhile I am becoming part of this community: I located some features that were not working correctly (for my situation) and these are now fixed, I helped out a few of the beginners with their configurations and am helping out a number of local EMC users with their problems. Telling me that the support is the biggest weakness hurts. There are a lot of persons on this list (including me) trying to help out where we can. 95% of all the EMC users are happy with their setup, 4% (or more) has problems that are fixed thanks to this mailing list and the remaining (1% or less) of the users have problems that are not solved due to different reasons. I (we) are sad to read that your problem is not solved and that you are an unhappy EMC user. Please let us stop this endless quarrel about EMC support. Regards, Rob -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 00:30:22 -0300 From: eyela...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43 I have bough a board, directed by EMC people. I am not dissapointed with MEsa, i'm dissapointed with the people who advised me. In my country, when */you/* direct someone to buy/do something that gives /*you*/ _.OR._ another an unjustified profit while the buyer/customer/doer gets a dissadvantage /*YOU*/ are responsible. That's called fraud and /*you*/ go to jail. Richard First this is all my personal opinion not the EMC group's. Is an apology you are looking for? I am a member of EMC's development. I, personally am sorry that your experience with EMC was less then what you hoped. I can assure you no one was trying to pull a fast one on you. Certainly no one was trying to fraud you. The hostmot2 software was and is very new. When the person who writes the software tests it it is fairly easy to miss bugs because the person tends to use it as he intended. The more it is used by other people (especially non programmers) the more these are flushed out. As Developers we support this by fixing them as best and fast as we can. Now programmers (as a rule) are just terrible about documentation. Docs are boring - new features are fun. Actually the docs are way way better now then even a year ago, as far as being up to date, correct and usable. But they are just like the software / programmers. When you write them they make sense to you but you knew what you meant! On top of that, in a rapidly developing project it's pretty easy to have the docs (usually just slightly) out of date. We are not perfect - we just try to do our best. On our side, yes maybe we need to evaluate how we release or advertise the state of our software. In fact we have already discussed it in general, to avoid problems. The real problem comes that we think it is right/ bug free because we have tested / used it . But the software is complicated and flexible- we need more people to test / use it. We don't pay people to test. I'm pretty sure profit companies do. So we release it. If and when problems come up we fix them. In most cases the problems that come up are obscure / minor anyways. Usually this works very well-sometimes not so well. I understand it can be very frustrating, it is frustrating for us too- we want people to have success and fun with EMC! But no one likes to be 'beat-up' over these problems, especially if we are not paid to put up with it. We do this because we like the challenge, or like to give back, or like to tinker. So Richard again I am sorry things worked out so badly for you. If you still want help with using the mesa board and EMC we can help but you have to stop the negativity now. Your point is across now To everyone else: We got our point across too - lets move on to some positive energy. If things need changing to help a new person out then lets hear it or volunteer to help do it. If there is problems or disappointments lets get to the point, keep the negativity to the minimum, And lets fix it! I think what this situation is really saying is that EMC is getting heard about- now it's not just the gurus and power tinkers that want to use it, regular people who don't want to invest the time to learn why something works they just want to use it. As far as I'm concerned I say welcome- we'll try to help. Chris Morley _ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I just looked back though al of your posts in this thread. They are all about problems with the operating system, not EMC. Why are you blaming the EMC guys? If you bought some Windows software then found Windows didn't like your computer, would you blame the suppliers of the software? FWIW I recently purchased a 7i20 for my lathe and it is running fine. Yes I did have to spend some time trawling the linuxcnc website for the relevant info but apart from that it pretty much works as described. Les Richard Acosta wrote: I have bough a board, directed by EMC people. I am not dissapointed with MEsa, i'm dissapointed with the people who advised me. -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Ok Rob, you're right, and i'm expressing badly. Behind this great project, the non better attended part is user support. I understand there is not such thing as a corporation, big business (or small) or any kind of organisation for profit. Well, i think it could be a great idea, that some more time could be employed to document things, and update documentation, but for the same people making things. So mistakes could be avoided(or try). I think that instead of buying 7i43 i would buy 5i20 i could be now with a working system, i'm aware of that. (not sure about expressed my idea correctly here) My bigger problem, and i have to confess here, is that people behind some projects, starts always blaming others. Here was the first time i had as an answer: you did this wrong or you are not doing things right but not getting the correct way to do it, just vague comments that i already knew. There comes my angry from, and i know not everyone has the same attitude. Thanks for your time, with the project and this message. Best regards. There is no EMC to tell you what is fully supported. Also there is no fully support. EMC is an open source project kept alive since 2001 (as far as I can remember). These guys did a good job of maintaining EMC and supporting people that join the mailing lists. Meanwhile I am becoming part of this community: I located some features that were not working correctly (for my situation) and these are now fixed, I helped out a few of the beginners with their configurations and am helping out a number of local EMC users with their problems. Telling me that the support is the biggest weakness hurts. There are a lot of persons on this list (including me) trying to help out where we can. 95% of all the EMC users are happy with their setup, 4% (or more) has problems that are fixed thanks to this mailing list and the remaining (1% or less) of the users have problems that are not solved due to different reasons. I (we) are sad to read that your problem is not solved and that you are an unhappy EMC user. Please let us stop this endless quarrel about EMC support. Regards, Rob -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
2009/7/6 Richard Acosta eyela...@gmail.com: I'm the customer asking for support and i am very dissapointed with your support. I think you are badly misunderstanding the whole Open Source ethos. EMC is Free Software. As the phrase goes Free as in speech, not free as in beer. It is written by unpaid volunteers, each for their own reasons, and it is used by a community of cooperative users, not by customers. You paid nothing for the software, so nobody owes you any support. People will do their best to help as part of this culture of cooperation, but you have to realise that nobody is obligated to help you, and demanding that people give up even more of their free time to help with your specific problem is not going to win you any friends. -- atp -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I haven't seen a check yet from you... to be a customer you have to purchase something from a vendor. When you receive something for free you are not a customer... John On 6 Jul 2009 at 18:31, Richard Acosta wrote: That's the kind of answer i have found the most here. I'm the customer asking for support and i am very dissapointed with your support. -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I think we have gotten the message across to Richard. Folks that NEED a place to call for everything, and with less patience, and more money than time, NEED to have a vendor they can pay to fix things. Much of the economy in the USA (and I assume to some extent elsewhere) is based on this perceived need. There is nothing wrong with Richards requests, other than a perceived feeling that there is an obligation to 'make it right on his terms'. If Richard or others need that, there are folks that are willing to sell EMC2 and other FOSS products to him with a service contract so they will be their first line of defense. I am guessing we have some of those vendors on this list. Nothing wrong with that either. I used to work for a company that sold FOSS systems and support. They were basically a white box vendor, that added their service, and charged the customer for the privilege of the customer not having to do it themselves. One problem we did have was our customers figured out the software was FOSS, so they went to the lists to get support. Again, nothing wrong there. But then they expected us to 'fix' what they had done for 'free' because it was FOSS. ... At time it is hard to say no to customers, but without $$ we had to. ... Enough war stories, lets go back to fixing issues and let us know of your successes! -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Well said, Jack. Onward! Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:18:36 -0500 From: j...@coats.org To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43 I think we have gotten the message across to Richard. Folks that NEED a place to call for everything, and with less patience, and more money than time, NEED to have a vendor they can pay to fix things. Much of the economy in the USA (and I assume to some extent elsewhere) is based on this perceived need. There is nothing wrong with Richards requests, other than a perceived feeling that there is an obligation to 'make it right on his terms'. If Richard or others need that, there are folks that are willing to sell EMC2 and other FOSS products to him with a service contract so they will be their first line of defense. I am guessing we have some of those vendors on this list. Nothing wrong with that either. I used to work for a company that sold FOSS systems and support. They were basically a white box vendor, that added their service, and charged the customer for the privilege of the customer not having to do it themselves. One problem we did have was our customers figured out the software was FOSS, so they went to the lists to get support. Again, nothing wrong there. But then they expected us to 'fix' what they had done for 'free' because it was FOSS. ... At time it is hard to say no to customers, but without $$ we had to. ... Enough war stories, lets go back to fixing issues and let us know of your successes! -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users _ Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I bought directed by EMC people saying the board was fully supported. El 07/07/2009 06:44 a.m., Andy Pugh escribió: 2009/7/6 Richard Acosta eyela...@gmail.com: I'm the customer asking for support and i am very dissapointed with your support. I think you are badly misunderstanding the whole Open Source ethos. EMC is Free Software. As the phrase goes Free as in speech, not free as in beer. It is written by unpaid volunteers, each for their own reasons, and it is used by a community of cooperative users, not by customers. You paid nothing for the software, so nobody owes you any support. People will do their best to help as part of this culture of cooperation, but you have to realise that nobody is obligated to help you, and demanding that people give up even more of their free time to help with your specific problem is not going to win you any friends. -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I can only agree with you, and i completely understand what you say, but you are not fully aware of my situation. El 05/07/2009 06:59 a.m., Sven Wesley escribió: I honestly believe that EMC is not the way to go all the time if you're not willing to pay someone to set things up or give support. My concerns, and my continuous ask for solutions... (and crying and whining), etc... are not for trying to do something cheap, free or anything else, it's only because i first downloaded manuals (before buing anything), read all documentation i could, talked to people and asked about what i was going to do, and... everything/body pointed to the same direction EMC2+7i43=working+supported and clearly was not the case. I followed instructions read over and over, and made everything as the manual said, AND i was blame at the time for not pay attention that i was using a deprecated and disfunctional driver with the wrong commands and conf. files(for newer and 100% functional driver), then went to get the new driver, and didn't work either... and that was the thing for several months. Until Ted's appearance) I bought something because there was(i found) a lot of doc. and answers saying that was possible to do something fast and cheap using that combination, if i ever read or hear (or anything else) i could buy a 5i20 instead of a 7i43, or even another brand. I have the board now, is not much more than a brick and send it back will cost me more than buying a new 5i20. Anyway, i don't want to send it back, i want things working the way i was assured it was suppossed to be. I'll keep complaining and complaining until i found that so easy way to make this work. Now, the system is as it was some months ago when i made the tests, is reading fine from encoders and i'm about to connect a PWM motor driver. To connect that pwm i had to pay a person because here i ve'been told is not possible to use what i have. (Not impossible but too complicated, so i asume impossible is what they tryed to say -nice support-) If i can make it work, i can assure you i'll publish my work (and my associates's one) Best regards.. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
That's the kind of answer i have found the most here. I'm the customer asking for support and i am very dissapointed with your support. I have read all your message, i intended to make a short answer but i kept too much time answering your message and some others. I was really tired, but i took the time and finally i kept awake for a while and ended reading everything. You should think, that i've reading everything, messages, docs and wikis, and paying attention to everyhing for months. I ended with a disfunctional system just because of paying attention to everything the reason: all was inaccurate or incomplete or deprecated, so... why should i keep doing the same other than for losing my time? Should i pay attention to everyone explaining his thoughts about religion? about how to install a linux system? preferences on bed? I've made a direct ask for help, and receive a bunch of incoherencies. So sad you didn't took the time to read all my message and ended answering yours.. El 05/07/2009 08:53 a.m., James Reed escribió: I'm sorry you didn't have time to read my letter but had time to reply. I only read the first line of yours. Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 03:48:27 -0300 From: eyela...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43 James, i'm now tired and is bed time, i couldn't read all your message, but i want to say just a little thing after reading some few lines. Communication is shutting down now. You aren't listening so others won't talk or listen to you. Sincerely, Jim Reed (aka Goslowjimbo) _ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Richard Acosta wrote: That's the kind of answer i have found the most here. I'm the customer asking for support and i am very dissapointed with your support. Thats it right there. You aren't a customer, you are a peer. Did you pay for EMC? Did you pay or offer to pay any of the devs for support? When people say get a refund they mean get all the money you spent on EMC back (keeping in mind that EMC is not MESA). -- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
James, i'm now tired and is bed time, i couldn't read all your message, but i want to say just a little thing after reading some few lines. I don't think here are people on bad intentions or trying to cheat on others. Is just than i'm dissapointed about the lack of answers and ressults i have obtained. That's what i call failure on support. You can see clearly now, only 2 messages answering about the problem i asked for, every other message is about preferences, thoughts, beliefs but not opengl(error) related and some people not even reading about the trouble... BUT you(me) went mad and got 5 instant answers of injured people... and again... no answers to the problem itself. I'm a hobbyst and i thought i could make some sort of deal by assembling this machine but only achieved to loose my time and money. WHILE in the past, i could always find good or very good support on several other fields. video editing, graphics, programming, you name it... and always linux related. That's the reason why i say, again and again: The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. I know there is a lot of boards to support, i know there is a lot of different configs to make, etc, etc... so if the people behind the project can't handle that amount of work, then they maybe need more people or better answers for stuff not ready/working/supported instead of that should work the way you did it. I repeat, maybe the project is too big for so few people and they need to get more people or even make the project smaller, at least on hardware support, so, supported hardware could be well and complete suported and documented. And maybe think about an own (self made) fully tested and certainly 100% functional (Linux from scratch maybe) OS intead of being dependant on Ubuntu and it's continuous changes and added failures. LinuxCNC should not need any kind of improved or updated graphical environment, so something made for it with as little extras possible i think it could be the best. El 04/07/2009 10:02 a.m., James Reed escribió: Richard: No one is here with the intent to make you mad, deceive you, or coerce you into developing something. As near as I can determine, everyone has tried to be patient and caring. The trouble is, these dedicated people are trying to advance the EMC project, provide support, and document everything on their own time, donating every bit of it. That's how open source happens most of the time. I'm not trying to deny you have frustrations, just trying to let you know you are chasing away the very people you need to succeed. I, too, when I first started trying to learn here got very frustrated. As I continued on, I even quit for a while. Then I realized it was not those people (who had already tried to help me tremendously - as they have you) that I was frustrated with, but my own progress. To solve that, I printed out each of the manuals, read them front to back at least 3 times, and practiced on little projects until I could remember at least a few of the tricks and commands. (I'm a slow learner as everyone on the EMC project probably knows). I still forget things and where they are located, and occasionally get reminded of that on the mailing list or chat lines. As far as your concern of running a 7i43 right out of the box, I can't and haven't found that claim anywhere. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never saw it. Actually, some good has come out of your ranting in the way of Ted Hyde's description which helped many of us anticipating the use of the Mesa boards, but I wouldn't expect any more progress, as you're beating up on your helpers. Please step back, see if you really want to pursue EMC and work with the developers and helpers, and then proceed accordingly. PS: I noticed you wanted the people of EMC to step back and take time to understand your problem. That is exactly what the EMC people are trying to say to you. Take the time to study your problem, reasearch all you can, and study the documents to understand what is going on. Then, if you politely show you have done your homework, they will be much more willing to pursue your problem. Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:26:38 -0300 From: eyela...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43 Maybe if you try to pay more attention and take some time to understand what you read and realize noone asked for YOUR PREFERENCE (Quoted). You could find (if you read) that i have explained about the way i installed the system and than i did it the same way you did. also i explained than it was working in the past but now not anymore, so, there is no concern about anyone's preferences but a certain need of support and that is why i asked for help trying to solve a rare issue. I'm suscribed to this list for about a year and never found a real(complete) answer
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
El 04/07/2009 04:42 p.m., Rafael Skodlar escribió: Why didn't i paid for a working solution based on windows from the begining? We ask ourselves the same question. Well... it seems you clearly can't understand irony... but i can answer to you... because i read a lot about LinuxCNC before buying the board, and EVERYTHING i read pointed to something that was inexistent, when i applied those directions everything was wrong, disfunctional or deprecated AND those disfunctions and etc.. weren't documented as the suppossed to be was. It could made me save almost a year of work in a project that is lost. Yes... i lost the project because my customer got tired to wait for something that WAS SUPPOSSED TO BE WORKING OUT OF THE BOX. So EMC guys are now liable for your $$$ losses due to your poor management, engineering, and implementation solution? No wonder we need silly legal disclaimers and licenses in source files. Well... if you offer a manual, a wiki and a lot of documentation saying you fully support something, and that is suppossed to work in a certain way, BUT at the time to assemble the system one can find NOTHING is working as suppossed.... deprecated configs, incomplete drivers, undocumented changes... you'll need a lot of silly disclaimers to avoid your own responsibilities. Why did i believe 1. There was real support on the Linux world. search engine: linux help Results 1 - 10 of about 130,000,000 for linux help. (0.15 seconds) Yes... i wasn't expresing well... i should have said There was real support on every project based on linux or something alike. 2. There was a simple and cheap do it yourself solution bassed on Linux and Cheap thinking, cheap results. Cheap answers the most. 3. All that seemed to be so easy, was really easy. It's easy for a bushman to catch a lizard for dinner. It all depends on EXPERIENCE. I made a complete administration program for my father's business when i was 18 and NEVER before touched a single programming line, compiler or language of any kind. It all depends on SUPPORT, experience can be obtained when well supported. Or you think a pilot can download or buy experience for his first flight? Sincerelly people... The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. 3.0 California law: three strikes and you are out. 1) I'm not in california 2) You counted no flaws, but laps. 3) who cares. Thanks to everyone who tryed to help, thanks to everyone behind such a great project, but i also think you need a lot more on support and I remember your case and a quick search shows December 21st as the date when you were upset about lack of EMC support on this list. If I remember correctly, you took on a job without knowing enough about Linux, EMC, and who knows what else to finish your contract. Apparently you still haven't realized that. Before doing that, and i'll explain it again because it seems you didn't read everything... Before doing that, i downloaded all acailable documentation, read all of it, AND found that there was no need to be an expert to make things work. well, that was what was written all over the manuals, BUT! not only needed some expertise also the instructions were wrong because there was deprecated configs, disfunctional drivers, and all sort of undocumented stuf. Sumarizing: The documentation could belong to something else but the board i bought even when saying it was supported, functional .etc... My mom is able to turn Linux box on and play games or check the news without me being around. She never used computers before she crossed 74. Well.. I started on a computer by the age of 10, and the first time i went stuck on something was when trying to make the 7i43 to work using the LinuxCNC provided documentation. Give your mom the manuals, the board and ask her to assemble and make the system to work using the documented configs prior to the ones Ted Hyde provided. Sorry, you're wrong here. DIY also requires KNOWLEDGE. DIY is about everyone can do it, the only needed thing is good documentation and was not the case with LinuxCNC. As Terry suggested, I'll be glad to take that help back and send you a refund to your Nigerian account as soon as you provide it. I didn't sent it back at the time for two reasons: 1) Ted's configs worked and seemed everything went on it's suppossed way. 2) Here in my country mail and taxes would cost more than the board itself. I ended paying more than US$ 700 when bought it, so your refund would be a bigger loss. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
2009/7/5 Richard Acosta eyela...@gmail.com El 04/07/2009 04:42 p.m., Rafael Skodlar escribió: Why didn't i paid for a working solution based on windows from the begining? We ask ourselves the same question. ...and so on and so on and so on... Sorry to hear you didn't get it working. But hey, I think you forget one thing. This isn't a product you can pay for and get gold support 24/7. That's the world of free things, not only an EMC-problem. I agree that the documentation is sometimes very thin, I for sure would like to see more examples or different setups (howto setup a closed loop is one for sure) and I try to add up when I can. That is _also_ a part of the world of free things - you have to give to get. And sometimes I see questions hanging in the air on the mailing-list, I agree a little bit on that one too. But just a little. I've been working with Linux since the second release of Yggdrasil (the _last_ release was in -95...) and I see this frustration coming back over and over again in different mailing lists and forums. No, Linux is not as M$ so that for sure makes a lot of people uncomfortable. On the other hand it's very look a like the other U*x's like Solaris, HP-Ux and so on - which at least I used when I was working with 3D-modelling. Unfortunately, Linux is not as plug and play as M$, but on the other hand it's extremely dynamic and way more powerful. I have a single chipset on a bread board at home running Linux, and at work I have a 32 CPU cluster running the same kernel. It takes time to learn to drive an aircraft, it takes even more time to drive it upside down (trust me on that one). It's still an aircraft, but used in a different way. Linux is easy to use when it comes to using it, but setting up an EMC machine is not just easy. I honestly believe that EMC is not the way to go all the time if you're not willing to pay someone to set things up or give support. That is what you do with Mach, you can get support - after the bill. If you go for Fanuc, Siemens, Heidenhain or any other dragon you'll pay and then pay again for support, and then you can pay for consultancy. It's not easy, there can always be more documentation and a lot more people eager to answer questions. Unfortunately we all live in the same world and need to take care of feeding, family, the house and then read mailing lists. For myself I also put surfing in somewhere in the middle which makes the reading even more tiny... ;) -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I'm sorry you didn't have time to read my letter but had time to reply. I only read the first line of yours. Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 03:48:27 -0300 From: eyela...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43 James, i'm now tired and is bed time, i couldn't read all your message, but i want to say just a little thing after reading some few lines. Communication is shutting down now. You aren't listening so others won't talk or listen to you. Sincerely, Jim Reed (aka Goslowjimbo) _ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 04:24 -0300, Richard Acosta wrote: Sumarizing: The documentation could belong to something else but the board i bought even when saying it was supported, functional .etc... For a long time, I have been a true believer in the EMC systems. I want to thank each person who has contributed to it. It is a long and arduous development path and each step, software, hardware, applications, made by each individual moves us ahead. I've no doubt that it is imperfect, some bits are released with support that is a work in progress. Some bits cause me to cringe when they make it into a release. I seem to remember releasing a lot of imperfect bits myself. Some folk make me cringe when they report trying something they are poorly prepared for. But hell. I'm pretty sure that MattS, JonE, and DanF, thought that of me when I started. I know for a fact that the folk at NIST thought that of me. I'm always impressed with the average level of patience of this community as it attracts new users and developers. We learn from the each of the thousands of applications made of OUR product. I want to point out that I've included software, hardware, and integrated machines in the set of things we do. Each is a part of OUR grand experiment. Thanks again to each one. Rayh -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
From that refund I'd buy some books and read up on some 'stuff'. So I can help myself... Rainer -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Richard: No one is here with the intent to make you mad, deceive you, or coerce you into developing something. As near as I can determine, everyone has tried to be patient and caring. The trouble is, these dedicated people are trying to advance the EMC project, provide support, and document everything on their own time, donating every bit of it. That's how open source happens most of the time. I'm not trying to deny you have frustrations, just trying to let you know you are chasing away the very people you need to succeed. I, too, when I first started trying to learn here got very frustrated. As I continued on, I even quit for a while. Then I realized it was not those people (who had already tried to help me tremendously - as they have you) that I was frustrated with, but my own progress. To solve that, I printed out each of the manuals, read them front to back at least 3 times, and practiced on little projects until I could remember at least a few of the tricks and commands. (I'm a slow learner as everyone on the EMC project probably knows). I still forget things and where they are located, and occasionally get reminded of that on the mailing list or chat lines. As far as your concern of running a 7i43 right out of the box, I can't and haven't found that claim anywhere. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never saw it. Actually, some good has come out of your ranting in the way of Ted Hyde's description which helped many of us anticipating the use of the Mesa boards, but I wouldn't expect any more progress, as you're beating up on your helpers. Please step back, see if you really want to pursue EMC and work with the developers and helpers, and then proceed accordingly. PS: I noticed you wanted the people of EMC to step back and take time to understand your problem. That is exactly what the EMC people are trying to say to you. Take the time to study your problem, reasearch all you can, and study the documents to understand what is going on. Then, if you politely show you have done your homework, they will be much more willing to pursue your problem. Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:26:38 -0300 From: eyela...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43 Maybe if you try to pay more attention and take some time to understand what you read and realize noone asked for YOUR PREFERENCE (Quoted). You could find (if you read) that i have explained about the way i installed the system and than i did it the same way you did. also i explained than it was working in the past but now not anymore, so, there is no concern about anyone's preferences but a certain need of support and that is why i asked for help trying to solve a rare issue. I'm suscribed to this list for about a year and never found a real(complete) answer for any issue. I'am also a suscriber to several other lists, and always found someone who solved, helped me to solve or at least pushed me on the right path, but that's not the case here. (always bumping except for Ted Hyde who made the config and etc... that made the brick to finally start showing numbers) The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Since my first inquiry i found exactly that... or at least that was the case with my mesa board. some people may remember the past year's adventures trying to make my 7i43 to at least say i'm alive I had to pay a linuxer to solve the strange phyton_opengl issue, wich took him less than 5 minutes, so it shouldn't be something that bad. I wonder how many time he needed to figure the solution on his mind. And, off course, about the EVERYTHING_can_WORK_on_this_BOARD (7i43) and the fact that had no answer about the way to connect the motors thru a freq. variator i had to pay another person, and off course, there IS a WAY, and it can work correctly. so, again: The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Now... i ask myself... Why didn't i paid for a working solution based on windows from the begining? It could made me save almost a year of work in a project that is lost. Yes... i lost the project because my customer got tired to wait for something that WAS SUPPOSSED TO BE WORKING OUT OF THE BOX. Why did i believe 1. There was real support on the Linux world. 2. There was a simple and cheap do it yourself solution bassed on Linux and 3. All that seemed to be so easy, was really easy. I know there is a lot of people with functional machines, nicely done retrofittings, etc... but... Was all that applied to the industry, was all that applied to a real productive environment? o was as it seems applied to hobbyst environments where everything can work partially? Sincerelly people... The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Thanks to everyone who tryed to help, thanks to everyone
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
On Saturday 04 July 2009, James Reed wrote: Richard: No one is here with the intent to make you mad, deceive you, or coerce you into developing something. As near as I can determine, everyone has tried to be patient and caring. The trouble is, these dedicated people are trying to advance the EMC project, provide support, and document everything on their own time, donating every bit of it. That's how open source happens most of the time. I'm not trying to deny you have frustrations, just trying to let you know you are chasing away the very people you need to succeed. I, too, when I first started trying to learn here got very frustrated. As I continued on, I even quit for a while. Then I realized it was not those people (who had already tried to help me tremendously - as they have you) that I was frustrated with, but my own progress. To solve that, I printed out each of the manuals, read them front to back at least 3 times, and practiced on little projects until I could remember at least a few of the tricks and commands. (I'm a slow learner as everyone on the EMC project probably knows). I still forget things and where they are located, and occasionally get reminded of that on the mailing list or chat lines. As far as your concern of running a 7i43 right out of the box, I can't and haven't found that claim anywhere. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never saw it. Actually, some good has come out of your ranting in the way of Ted Hyde's description which helped many of us anticipating the use of the Mesa boards, but I wouldn't expect any more progress, as you're beating up on your helpers. Please step back, see if you really want to pursue EMC and work with the developers and helpers, and then proceed accordingly. PS: I noticed you wanted the people of EMC to step back and take time to understand your problem. That is exactly what the EMC people are trying to say to you. Take the time to study your problem, reasearch all you can, and study the documents to understand what is going on. Then, if you politely show you have done your homework, they will be much more willing to pursue your problem. Extremely well said James. Thanks. I have yet to ask a question (more often than not based on an incomplete understanding on my part) that wasn't answered by someone here, (or on IRC) sometimes directly, and sometimes with a pointer to the wiki so I could do my own detective work, but I have always rx'd a helpful answer. Sometimes it is up to the questioner to recognize that the answer he got is in fact helpful. That means one must be willing to help himself too. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp If Bill Gates is the Devil then Linus Torvalds must be the Messiah. -- Unknown source -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Richard Acosta wrote: Maybe if you try to pay more attention and take some time to understand what you read and realize noone asked for YOUR PREFERENCE (Quoted). You could find (if you read) that i have explained about the way i installed the system and than i did it the same way you did. also i explained than it was working in the past but now not anymore, so, there is no concern about anyone's preferences but a certain need of support and that is why i asked for help trying to solve a rare issue. I'm suscribed to this list for about a year and never found a real(complete) answer for any issue. Huh? I'am also a suscriber to several other lists, and always found someone who solved, helped me to solve or at least pushed me on the right path, Good, hang around those who help you. but that's not the case here. (always bumping except for Ted Hyde who made the config and etc... that made the brick to finally start showing numbers) The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. 1.0 Since my first inquiry i found exactly that... or at least that was the case with my mesa board. some people may remember the past year's adventures trying to make my 7i43 to at least say i'm alive I had to pay a linuxer to solve the strange phyton_opengl issue, wich took him less than 5 minutes, so it shouldn't be something that bad. I wonder how many time he needed to figure the solution on his mind. And, off course, about the EVERYTHING_can_WORK_on_this_BOARD (7i43) and the fact that had no answer about the way to connect the motors thru a freq. variator i had to pay another person, and off course, there IS a WAY, and it can work correctly. so, again: The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. 2.0 Now... i ask myself... Why didn't i paid for a working solution based on windows from the begining? We ask ourselves the same question. It could made me save almost a year of work in a project that is lost. Yes... i lost the project because my customer got tired to wait for something that WAS SUPPOSSED TO BE WORKING OUT OF THE BOX. So EMC guys are now liable for your $$$ losses due to your poor management, engineering, and implementation solution? No wonder we need silly legal disclaimers and licenses in source files. Why did i believe 1. There was real support on the Linux world. search engine: linux help Results 1 - 10 of about 130,000,000 for linux help. (0.15 seconds) 2. There was a simple and cheap do it yourself solution bassed on Linux and Cheap thinking, cheap results. 3. All that seemed to be so easy, was really easy. It's easy for a bushman to catch a lizard for dinner. It all depends on EXPERIENCE. I know there is a lot of people with functional machines, nicely done retrofittings, etc... but... Was all that applied to the industry, was all that applied to a real productive environment? o was as it seems applied to hobbyst environments where everything can work partially? Does it matter? People put in TIME, $$$, and exchange experience, i.e. help each other on this list and IRC. Sincerelly people... The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. 3.0 California law: three strikes and you are out. Thanks to everyone who tryed to help, thanks to everyone behind such a great project, but i also think you need a lot more on support and I remember your case and a quick search shows December 21st as the date when you were upset about lack of EMC support on this list. If I remember correctly, you took on a job without knowing enough about Linux, EMC, and who knows what else to finish your contract. Apparently you still haven't realized that. documentation. And there is a real need to avoid situations like the one i had to live with a poorly supported(driver) board while it was doccumented as being supported correctly and fully functional. You need to understand that not everyone is a programmer, you need to know that not everyone can operate Linux partially and that a doit My mom is able to turn Linux box on and play games or check the news without me being around. She never used computers before she crossed 74. yourself has to be well accompanied with very well developed and very clear documentation. Perhaps this is an opportunity to start a business to support people like you. But there is a catch: you likely won't pay them as much as you would expect to pay for similar commercial products. Sorry, you're wrong here. DIY also requires KNOWLEDGE. There might be more support in the future, I'm confident that as soon as you and other similarly disappointed people dangle enough $$$ in front of experts, there will be different kind of support. A lot of OSS projects fork that way. Still, the level of support on this mailing list and IRC is at least as good as any other OSS projects I've been following for years.
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Maybe if you try to pay more attention and take some time to understand what you read and realize noone asked for YOUR PREFERENCE (Quoted). You could find (if you read) that i have explained about the way i installed the system and than i did it the same way you did. also i explained than it was working in the past but now not anymore, so, there is no concern about anyone's preferences but a certain need of support and that is why i asked for help trying to solve a rare issue. I'm suscribed to this list for about a year and never found a real(complete) answer for any issue. I'am also a suscriber to several other lists, and always found someone who solved, helped me to solve or at least pushed me on the right path, but that's not the case here. (always bumping except for Ted Hyde who made the config and etc... that made the brick to finally start showing numbers) The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Since my first inquiry i found exactly that... or at least that was the case with my mesa board. some people may remember the past year's adventures trying to make my 7i43 to at least say i'm alive I had to pay a linuxer to solve the strange phyton_opengl issue, wich took him less than 5 minutes, so it shouldn't be something that bad. I wonder how many time he needed to figure the solution on his mind. And, off course, about the EVERYTHING_can_WORK_on_this_BOARD (7i43) and the fact that had no answer about the way to connect the motors thru a freq. variator i had to pay another person, and off course, there IS a WAY, and it can work correctly. so, again: The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Now... i ask myself... Why didn't i paid for a working solution based on windows from the begining? It could made me save almost a year of work in a project that is lost. Yes... i lost the project because my customer got tired to wait for something that WAS SUPPOSSED TO BE WORKING OUT OF THE BOX. Why did i believe 1. There was real support on the Linux world. 2. There was a simple and cheap do it yourself solution bassed on Linux and 3. All that seemed to be so easy, was really easy. I know there is a lot of people with functional machines, nicely done retrofittings, etc... but... Was all that applied to the industry, was all that applied to a real productive environment? o was as it seems applied to hobbyst environments where everything can work partially? Sincerelly people... The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Thanks to everyone who tryed to help, thanks to everyone behind such a great project, but i also think you need a lot more on support and documentation. And there is a real need to avoid situations like the one i had to live with a poorly supported(driver) board while it was doccumented as being supported correctly and fully functional. You need to understand that not everyone is a programmer, you need to know that not everyone can operate Linux partially and that a doit yourself has to be well accompanied with very well developed and very clear documentation. Greetings to everyone and best regards. El 01/07/2009 02:53 p.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Well Richard I was just reading your posts and questions and realizing your LOST situation thought I could HELP a little. Sorry for bothering you. Do NOT worry it will NOT happen again. thank you very much Stuart On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Richard Acostaeyela...@gmail.com wrote: What has this anyhting to do about what i asked? El 25/06/2009 10:49 a.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Gentlemen, My personal preference for installing EMC2 is as follows: install a minimum of 256 mb ram try to use the motherboard video (keep as simple as possible) in bios - set parallel port to epp (I use Jon Elson's boards and they require EPP mode) load Ubuntu (6.06 LTS or 8.04 LTS) (depends on computer hardware) (for my touch screens I find 6.06 is the easiest to configure) update Ubuntu version to latest of the version configure everything in Ubuntu as desired (especially touch screens) download and run the install.sh for EMC2 restart computer start EMC2 from the menu to make sure it will run stop EMC2 git (a version) (I prefer trunk) follow wiki instructions for build prep go to src directory and configure (I always configure to run in place) look through the configure results to make sure configure found everything necessary if configure did not find everything then install packages to resolve dependencies and run configure again when configure has found everything then run 'make' when make has completed successfully then run 'sudo make setuid' go to the top level directory of the version you installed run 'scripts/emc' EMC2 should start and run if your touch screen was working before the EMC2 install - it will work now until you have your machine starting and running
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Richard I think you should demand a refund from everybody on this list who tried to help you. Terry It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot than open it and remove all doubt. On Fri Jul 3 21:26 , Richard Acosta eyela...@gmail.com sent: Maybe if you try to pay more attention and take some time to understand what you read and realize noone asked for YOUR PREFERENCE (Quoted). You could find (if you read) that i have explained about the way i installed the system and than i did it the same way you did. also i explained than it was working in the past but now not anymore, so, there is no concern about anyone's preferences but a certain need of support and that is why i asked for help trying to solve a rare issue. I'm suscribed to this list for about a year and never found a real(complete) answer for any issue. I'am also a suscriber to several other lists, and always found someone who solved, helped me to solve or at least pushed me on the right path, but that's not the case here. (always bumping except for Ted Hyde who made the config and etc... that made the brick to finally start showing numbers) The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Since my first inquiry i found exactly that... or at least that was the case with my mesa board. some people may remember the past year's adventures trying to make my 7i43 to at least say i'm alive I had to pay a linuxer to solve the strange phyton_opengl issue, wich took him less than 5 minutes, so it shouldn't be something that bad. I wonder how many time he needed to figure the solution on his mind. And, off course, about the EVERYTHING_can_WORK_on_this_BOARD (7i43) and the fact that had no answer about the way to connect the motors thru a freq. variator i had to pay another person, and off course, there IS a WAY, and it can work correctly. so, again: The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Now... i ask myself... Why didn't i paid for a working solution based on windows from the begining? It could made me save almost a year of work in a project that is lost. Yes... i lost the project because my customer got tired to wait for something that WAS SUPPOSSED TO BE WORKING OUT OF THE BOX. Why did i believe 1. There was real support on the Linux world. 2. There was a simple and cheap do it yourself solution bassed on Linux and 3. All that seemed to be so easy, was really easy. I know there is a lot of people with functional machines, nicely done retrofittings, etc... but... Was all that applied to the industry, was all that applied to a real productive environment? o was as it seems applied to hobbyst environments where everything can work partially? Sincerelly people... The support on LinuxCNC is clearly the biggest weakness. Thanks to everyone who tryed to help, thanks to everyone behind such a great project, but i also think you need a lot more on support and documentation. And there is a real need to avoid situations like the one i had to live with a poorly supported(driver) board while it was doccumented as being supported correctly and fully functional. You need to understand that not everyone is a programmer, you need to know that not everyone can operate Linux partially and that a doit yourself has to be well accompanied with very well developed and very clear documentation. Greetings to everyone and best regards. El 01/07/2009 02:53 p.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Well Richard I was just reading your posts and questions and realizing your LOST situation thought I could HELP a little. Sorry for bothering you. Do NOT worry it will NOT happen again. thank you very much Stuart On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Richard acostaeyela...@gmail.com wrote: What has this anyhting to do about what i asked? El 25/06/2009 10:49 a.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Gentlemen, My personal preference for installing EMC2 is as follows: install a minimum of 256 mb ram try to use the motherboard video (keep as simple as possible) in bios - set parallel port to epp (I use Jon Elson's boards and they require EPP mode) load Ubuntu (6.06 LTS or 8.04 LTS) (depends on computer hardware) (for my touch screens I find 6.06 is the easiest to configure) update Ubuntu version to latest of the version configure everything in Ubuntu as desired (especially touch screens) download and run the install.sh for EMC2 restart computer start EMC2 from the menu to make sure it will run stop EMC2 git (a version) (I prefer trunk) follow wiki instructions for build prep go to src directory and configure (I always configure to run in place) look through the configure results to make sure configure found everything necessary if configure did not find everything then install packages to resolve dependencies and run configure again when configure has found everything then run 'make' when make has
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
What has this anyhting to do about what i asked? El 25/06/2009 10:49 a.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Gentlemen, My personal preference for installing EMC2 is as follows: install a minimum of 256 mb ram try to use the motherboard video (keep as simple as possible) in bios - set parallel port to epp (I use Jon Elson's boards and they require EPP mode) load Ubuntu (6.06 LTS or 8.04 LTS) (depends on computer hardware) (for my touch screens I find 6.06 is the easiest to configure) update Ubuntu version to latest of the version configure everything in Ubuntu as desired (especially touch screens) download and run the install.sh for EMC2 restart computer start EMC2 from the menu to make sure it will run stop EMC2 git (a version) (I prefer trunk) follow wiki instructions for build prep go to src directory and configure (I always configure to run in place) look through the configure results to make sure configure found everything necessary if configure did not find everything then install packages to resolve dependencies and run configure again when configure has found everything then run 'make' when make has completed successfully then run 'sudo make setuid' go to the top level directory of the version you installed run 'scripts/emc' EMC2 should start and run if your touch screen was working before the EMC2 install - it will work now until you have your machine starting and running reliably you need to start EMC2 in a terminal so you can see the error messages - after you have your machine running you can copy the menu icon to your desktop and change the launch path to your compile version and use your icon to start EMC2 hth Stuart -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Well Richard I was just reading your posts and questions and realizing your LOST situation thought I could HELP a little. Sorry for bothering you. Do NOT worry it will NOT happen again. thank you very much Stuart On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Richard Acostaeyela...@gmail.com wrote: What has this anyhting to do about what i asked? El 25/06/2009 10:49 a.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Gentlemen, My personal preference for installing EMC2 is as follows: install a minimum of 256 mb ram try to use the motherboard video (keep as simple as possible) in bios - set parallel port to epp (I use Jon Elson's boards and they require EPP mode) load Ubuntu (6.06 LTS or 8.04 LTS) (depends on computer hardware) (for my touch screens I find 6.06 is the easiest to configure) update Ubuntu version to latest of the version configure everything in Ubuntu as desired (especially touch screens) download and run the install.sh for EMC2 restart computer start EMC2 from the menu to make sure it will run stop EMC2 git (a version) (I prefer trunk) follow wiki instructions for build prep go to src directory and configure (I always configure to run in place) look through the configure results to make sure configure found everything necessary if configure did not find everything then install packages to resolve dependencies and run configure again when configure has found everything then run 'make' when make has completed successfully then run 'sudo make setuid' go to the top level directory of the version you installed run 'scripts/emc' EMC2 should start and run if your touch screen was working before the EMC2 install - it will work now until you have your machine starting and running reliably you need to start EMC2 in a terminal so you can see the error messages - after you have your machine running you can copy the menu icon to your desktop and change the launch path to your compile version and use your icon to start EMC2 hth Stuart -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- you can lead a person to knowledge but you cannot make him think -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I find Stuart's preffered installation method helpful. One question Stuart. Do you use the live CD or a stock install of Ubuntu 6.06 or 8.04? Based on your notes, it would appear you use a stock install since you add the install.sh script. If this is the case, I am assuming you have had better success with stock installs over the live CD? Thanks. Brian On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote: Well Richard I was just reading your posts and questions and realizing your LOST situation thought I could HELP a little. Sorry for bothering you. Do NOT worry it will NOT happen again. thank you very much Stuart On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Richard Acostaeyela...@gmail.com wrote: What has this anyhting to do about what i asked? El 25/06/2009 10:49 a.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Gentlemen, My personal preference for installing EMC2 is as follows: install a minimum of 256 mb ram try to use the motherboard video (keep as simple as possible) in bios - set parallel port to epp (I use Jon Elson's boards and they require EPP mode) load Ubuntu (6.06 LTS or 8.04 LTS) (depends on computer hardware) (for my touch screens I find 6.06 is the easiest to configure) update Ubuntu version to latest of the version configure everything in Ubuntu as desired (especially touch screens) download and run the install.sh for EMC2 restart computer start EMC2 from the menu to make sure it will run stop EMC2 git (a version) (I prefer trunk) follow wiki instructions for build prep go to src directory and configure (I always configure to run in place) look through the configure results to make sure configure found everything necessary if configure did not find everything then install packages to resolve dependencies and run configure again when configure has found everything then run 'make' when make has completed successfully then run 'sudo make setuid' go to the top level directory of the version you installed run 'scripts/emc' EMC2 should start and run if your touch screen was working before the EMC2 install - it will work now until you have your machine starting and running reliably you need to start EMC2 in a terminal so you can see the error messages - after you have your machine running you can copy the menu icon to your desktop and change the launch path to your compile version and use your icon to start EMC2 hth Stuart -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- you can lead a person to knowledge but you cannot make him think -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Brian, I seem to get better hardware recognition and everything seems to work better. I don't know the details of the hardware recognition and the live CD may be just as good but my experience makes me feel the stock install handles the hardware better. thanks Stuart On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:52 PM, BRIAN GLACKINglackin.br...@gmail.com wrote: I find Stuart's preffered installation method helpful. One question Stuart. Do you use the live CD or a stock install of Ubuntu 6.06 or 8.04? Based on your notes, it would appear you use a stock install since you add the install.sh script. If this is the case, I am assuming you have had better success with stock installs over the live CD? Thanks. Brian On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote: Well Richard I was just reading your posts and questions and realizing your LOST situation thought I could HELP a little. Sorry for bothering you. Do NOT worry it will NOT happen again. thank you very much Stuart On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Richard Acostaeyela...@gmail.com wrote: What has this anyhting to do about what i asked? El 25/06/2009 10:49 a.m., Stuart Stevenson escribió: Gentlemen, My personal preference for installing EMC2 is as follows: install a minimum of 256 mb ram try to use the motherboard video (keep as simple as possible) in bios - set parallel port to epp (I use Jon Elson's boards and they require EPP mode) load Ubuntu (6.06 LTS or 8.04 LTS) (depends on computer hardware) (for my touch screens I find 6.06 is the easiest to configure) update Ubuntu version to latest of the version configure everything in Ubuntu as desired (especially touch screens) download and run the install.sh for EMC2 restart computer start EMC2 from the menu to make sure it will run stop EMC2 git (a version) (I prefer trunk) follow wiki instructions for build prep go to src directory and configure (I always configure to run in place) look through the configure results to make sure configure found everything necessary if configure did not find everything then install packages to resolve dependencies and run configure again when configure has found everything then run 'make' when make has completed successfully then run 'sudo make setuid' go to the top level directory of the version you installed run 'scripts/emc' EMC2 should start and run if your touch screen was working before the EMC2 install - it will work now until you have your machine starting and running reliably you need to start EMC2 in a terminal so you can see the error messages - after you have your machine running you can copy the menu icon to your desktop and change the launch path to your compile version and use your icon to start EMC2 hth Stuart -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- you can lead a person to knowledge but you cannot make him think -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- you can lead a person to knowledge but you cannot make him think -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Stuart Stevenson wrote: Brian, I seem to get better hardware recognition and everything seems to work better. I don't know the details of the hardware recognition and the live CD may be just as good but my experience makes me feel the stock install handles the hardware better. thanks Stuart I'm partial to Stuart's method as well. IMO, the EMC team is better at EMC (and by necessity, RTAI kernels), but the Ubuntu team is much better at making a general purpose Linux distro that will work on lots of different computers. I realize that one-stop-shopping as provided by the Live-CD appeals to some, but those folks have to realize that we can only support EMC, we can't possibly support the entire operating system. Regards, John Kasunich -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
I realize that one-stop-shopping as provided by the Live-CD appeals to some, but those folks have to realize that we can only support EMC, we can't possibly support the entire operating system. Regards, John Kasunich I personally am a linux, cnc, electronics and machining newbie and lurk here and other places in sponge mode. I ran through many issues with using old computer boxes with Ubuntu. Stuart's method struck me right away as a route to getting around several video problems I have had. One of my first successfull installs followed roughly Stuart's method as coached by SWP on IRC. Based on both of your comments, it would be nice to have have the download page of the Linuxcnc.org site point first to a wiki which offers the choice of one stop shopping aka the liveCD or the round to it method using vanilla Ubuntu The page can then prominently display the pro's and cons of each approach. Brian -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
This is probably what you have tried anyway, but I had a similar problem in the past: I have had good luck doing an install from a 8.04 CD that is just ubuntu. Before doing any updates from the 'net', add the proper lines for EMC2 to the sources.list *http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh* can do this for you) It also does 'apt-get update', if you don't see it, do that run, enter it again. Then apt-get install emc2 Only after all that do a apt-get upgrade When the upgrade installs the updates which will eventuall include new kernel updates, go into the /boot/grub/menu.lst and make sure you boot the real time kernel that comes with EMC2 by default. ... Jack On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Richard Acosta eyela...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, Thanks Sptephen, that´s the reason for my query, i made a fresh install on a computer using a Sis chipset motherboard and Nvidia VGA, when starting EMC for the first time i got this message, so i went to onboard VGA (Sis 730) then, the same. After that i fresh installed on a new hard drive on the same computer where it was working originally, and, again, i got this error, so i cloned the original hard drive over the new one, this time, no fresh install, so it should work, and voilá the same message :-( . (My hard disk, friend's computer) The fact is, that in the past, i used an nvidia GF2 MX200 card, and it seemed to work, but i changed VGA because i read about issues on LinuxCNC, and didn't understood that nv or vesa were usable. Never installed the nvidia proprietary driver. As i was using the computer were LinuxCNC was originally installed for other stuff(download) there is a chance that i installed something else or maybe updated... but... should'nt LinuxCNC work anyway? I'm getting tired of Ubuntu, i used it happily until 8.1 release, then i had a strange issue were my hard drive's data got corrupted(Lost everything off course), then i moved on to 9.04, but my laptop lost its portability (not battery sensing) and video accelleration is lame, too much .not. acceleration, so i went back to 8.04 two days ago, i updated after install (not version, only software and kernel) and got in first place an almost unusable kernel, not audio, not wifi, not LAN!!! went back on kernel, and i have SEVERAL keyboard and mouse interruption issues for something updated on KDE(i guess or maybe ACPI). I think it could may be Ubuntu's fault, never saw that many fail on so few time. (And i used Vista) So, i'm stuck now. Thanks anyway and again. El 22/06/2009 1:10 a.m., Stephen Wille Padnos escribió: Even When using a GF2 MX400 or an FX6200 (AGP both) i have this same message using both VESA or NV drivers. If you have a fresh install of Linux, and you have never installed the NVidia drivers, then you definitely should not get this error. Mesa (the software openGL driver) is installed by default from the EMC2 liveCD. You can use synaptic to make sure it's installed, and install it if not. - Steve -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Ok, Thanks Sptephen, that´s the reason for my query, i made a fresh install on a computer using a Sis chipset motherboard and Nvidia VGA, when starting EMC for the first time i got this message, so i went to onboard VGA (Sis 730) then, the same. After that i fresh installed on a new hard drive on the same computer where it was working originally, and, again, i got this error, so i cloned the original hard drive over the new one, this time, no fresh install, so it should work, and voilá the same message :-( . (My hard disk, friend's computer) The fact is, that in the past, i used an nvidia GF2 MX200 card, and it seemed to work, but i changed VGA because i read about issues on LinuxCNC, and didn't understood that nv or vesa were usable. Never installed the nvidia proprietary driver. As i was using the computer were LinuxCNC was originally installed for other stuff(download) there is a chance that i installed something else or maybe updated... but... should'nt LinuxCNC work anyway? I'm getting tired of Ubuntu, i used it happily until 8.1 release, then i had a strange issue were my hard drive's data got corrupted(Lost everything off course), then i moved on to 9.04, but my laptop lost its portability (not battery sensing) and video accelleration is lame, too much .not. acceleration, so i went back to 8.04 two days ago, i updated after install (not version, only software and kernel) and got in first place an almost unusable kernel, not audio, not wifi, not LAN!!! went back on kernel, and i have SEVERAL keyboard and mouse interruption issues for something updated on KDE(i guess or maybe ACPI). I think it could may be Ubuntu's fault, never saw that many fail on so few time. (And i used Vista) So, i'm stuck now. Thanks anyway and again. El 22/06/2009 1:10 a.m., Stephen Wille Padnos escribió: Even When using a GF2 MX400 or an FX6200 (AGP both) i have this same message using both VESA or NV drivers. If you have a fresh install of Linux, and you have never installed the NVidia drivers, then you definitely should not get this error. Mesa (the software openGL driver) is installed by default from the EMC2 liveCD. You can use synaptic to make sure it's installed, and install it if not. - Steve -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
Richard Acosta wrote: Ok... it seems i need to repeat again Nvidia proprietary drivers were NEVER installed, AND i'm NOT using an nvidia card right now. Original Message: After some time dealing with LinuxCNC/EMC2 i have obtained a partial success, but abandoned the project due the ammount of time it takes to make every step. Now i'm trying to get into again, and i find a new strange behavior. I have this message(log) when trying to start EMC2 with Mesa 7i43, on the same hardware it was (almost) working. The only change i have made is the video board, i can't remember the card used when it worked, but now *i'm using a sis 6326 AGP 8MB card*. I cant' get any other card unless nVidia, but i have read about nVidia's issues. Unfortunately, you have chosen a card for which there is no OpenGL support in Linux. I found this out by using google and searching for the terms sis 6326 openGL Linux. The first hit was this page: http://www.winischhofer.eu/linuxsispart1.shtml. If you search within that page for the word OpenGL, and look at the bullet points hilighted in red, you will see that the 6236 and several other flavors of SIS chip have no 3D acceleration, OpenGL, or DRI support. Unfortunately, you will have to find another video card. If all you can find is Nvidia, that should be OK. Just don't install the nvidia proprietary drivers. Use the nv or vesa drivers instead. Doing this will result in lower performance than the card is capable of providing, but you should have openGL support and reasonable realtime performance. Even When using a GF2 MX400 or an FX6200 (AGP both) i have this same message using both VESA or NV drivers. If you have a fresh install of Linux, and you have never installed the NVidia drivers, then you definitely should not get this error. Mesa (the software openGL driver) is installed by default from the EMC2 liveCD. You can use synaptic to make sure it's installed, and install it if not. - Steve -- Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference! Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250. Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;215844324;13503038;v?http://opensourcebridge.org ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
thanks for your answer Jack but... Nvidia proprietary driveres were never installed, and i'm not using an nvidia card right now. And, i have made both a reinstall and a fresh install and i have the same ressult. It was working fine but with another very old AGP card. I'm using a mesa 7i43 and VIA KT133 mainboard. I was able to read data incoming from encoders when abandoned the project because i couldn't find help to assemble the system properly as i needed. Now i have found a person who seems to be able to make things work as i need, but linux is not working anymore. The thing is, Linux is not working and is saying something about OpenGL, that was never before an issue. I need some help to use a GF2MX200 graphic card, or the currently installed Sis 6326 or at least a list of videocards supported. (that i search and didn't find) El 18/06/2009 6:58 p.m., Jack Coats escribió: I did a re-install without allowing the proprietary nVidia driver to be installed and it helped. ... Eventually I have determined I just need a newer machine. It may not be the elegant answer or the answer I wanted, but it works now. Another option I tried was not using Axis. Being a 'newbie' at it, that was not productive either. I know it is doable without Axis, but Axis is the interface that most effort has been expended on, so it seems to have all the features. ... Jack On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Richard Acosta eyela...@gmail.com wrote: After some time dealing with LinuxCNC/EMC2 i have obtained a partial success, but abandoned the project due the ammount of time it takes to make every step. Now i'm trying to get into again, and i find a new strange behavior. I have this message(log) when trying to start EMC2 with Mesa 7i43, on the same hardware it was (almost) working. The only change i have made is the video board, i can't remember the card used when it worked, but now i'm using a sis 6326 AGP 8MB card. I cant' get any other card unless nVidia, but i have read about nVidia's issues. Even When using a GF2 MX400 or an FX6200 (AGP both) i have this same message using both VESA or NV drivers. Original exception was: Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/axis, line 3370, in module o = MyOpengl(widgets.preview_frame, width=400, height=300, double=1, depth=1) tkinter.TclError: Togl: X server has no OpenGL GLX extension Here in pastebin http://pastebin.com/f1d94ec38 -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OpenGL on EMC2? + 7i43
This page talks about Ubuntu and Nvidia https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia in 8.04, 7.10 and 6.06 Now if the version of Ubuntu supplied with the EMC2 download is different from the Ubuntu 8.04 I don't know. On my main desktop I use openSuSE 11.1 and Nvidia with no issues. My EMC2 machine is a Shuttle KPC-K45 Intel Dual Core cpu at 1.8 GHz with 2 gigs of ram using the motherboard video, sorry I don't know off hand what video chip set it is it seems to work very well. Gary Fiber K8IZ Richard Acosta wrote: thanks for your answer Jack but... Nvidia proprietary driveres were never installed, and i'm not using an nvidia card right now. And, i have made both a reinstall and a fresh install and i have the same ressult. It was working fine but with another very old AGP card. I'm using a mesa 7i43 and VIA KT133 mainboard. I was able to read data incoming from encoders when abandoned the project because i couldn't find help to assemble the system properly as i needed. Now i have found a person who seems to be able to make things work as i need, but linux is not working anymore. The thing is, Linux is not working and is saying something about OpenGL, that was never before an issue. I need some help to use a GF2MX200 graphic card, or the currently installed Sis 6326 or at least a list of videocards supported. (that i search and didn't find) El 18/06/2009 6:58 p.m., Jack Coats escribió: I did a re-install without allowing the proprietary nVidia driver to be installed and it helped. ... Eventually I have determined I just need a newer machine. It may not be the elegant answer or the answer I wanted, but it works now. Another option I tried was not using Axis. Being a 'newbie' at it, that was not productive either. I know it is doable without Axis, but Axis is the interface that most effort has been expended on, so it seems to have all the features. ... Jack On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Richard Acosta eyela...@gmail.com wrote: After some time dealing with LinuxCNC/EMC2 i have obtained a partial success, but abandoned the project due the ammount of time it takes to make every step. Now i'm trying to get into again, and i find a new strange behavior. I have this message(log) when trying to start EMC2 with Mesa 7i43, on the same hardware it was (almost) working. The only change i have made is the video board, i can't remember the card used when it worked, but now i'm using a sis 6326 AGP 8MB card. I cant' get any other card unless nVidia, but i have read about nVidia's issues. Even When using a GF2 MX400 or an FX6200 (AGP both) i have this same message using both VESA or NV drivers. Original exception was: Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/axis, line 3370, in module o = MyOpengl(widgets.preview_frame, width=400, height=300, double=1, depth=1) tkinter.TclError: Togl: X server has no OpenGL GLX extension Here in pastebin http://pastebin.com/f1d94ec38 -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Emc-users
